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The Late Debate | 6 October · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Late Debate.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Well, good evening and thanks for joining us on The
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Late Debate. I'm James McPherson with Jo Hildebrand and the
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: lovely Lucy Zelich.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: How are you, Lucy?
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm well. How are you?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm very good. Always better to be on TV with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: you and Jo.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, God bless you both. Thank you very much. It's
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: been fun. What am I going to do with myself
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: when this all wraps up?
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Probably you'll write columns for the Daily Telegraph. You'll be
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: all over the radio.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: You'll do all the things you normally do, Lucy.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I need a break. I don't know how you guys
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: have the stamina these late nights.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: I'll be free as well if you want to hang out.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Well, while these guys organise their social life, let's get
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: on with the show. Here's what's coming up tonight. In
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: a moment of almost supernatural comic timing, the lights go
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: out in the middle of Chris Bowen's climate summit. At
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: the very moment, Zali Stegall was enthusing about the wonders
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of renewable energy. A refugee advocate vows to renounce her
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Australian citizenship and move elsewhere because, well, Australia is unbearably racist.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: But first, she's asking people to donate $ 150, 000 so she
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: can rest and recover.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: And a Greens-linked.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Plan calls for the government to nationalise 200 coals and
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: woolly stores to create public supermarkets. What could possibly go
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: wrong with that plan? We'll get to all of that shortly.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: But first, Donald Trump has approved the United States' first
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: military execution in 65 years. He's given the go-ahead for
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Nadel Hassan, a former US Army psychiatrist who shot dead
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: 13 people and wounded 30 others at the Fort Hood
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: military base back in 2009 to be executed by firing squad.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I'm against the death penalty. I don't think the government
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: should have the right to kill citizens, no matter how
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: monstrous the crime. But when you join the US military,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: you come under different legal and moral obligations. A US
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: soldier who betrays his oath and uses the weapons and
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: access entrusted to him to conduct an ideologically motivated attack
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: on his own fellow soldiers has not only committed treason,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: he's committed.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: An act of war.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And so in my view, death by firing squad for
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: this al-Qaeda-inspired Islamist is absolutely appropriate.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Tell me why I'm wrong, Joe.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: I don't think I can. I don't believe in the
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: death penalty either. But if I believed in it for anybody,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: this guy would be right up the top of the
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: list with a bullet. No pun intended. I think you're right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: I think historically treason has been the only other crime
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: apart from murder that has consistently warranted the death penalty.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: And the fact of the matter is that if you,
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: you know, if you are going to pledge allegiance to your,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: you know, your president, your flag, your country, and then
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: you violate what is, I mean, when you're a soldier,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: when you're a military officer, you are putting your life
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: in the hands of the man next to you, the
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: officer next to you. You have to have complete and
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: utter faith that they will do whatever it takes to
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: look after you in the heat of battle And for
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: someone to not only fail that test, but to actually
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: be an active malicious actor within that unit of that
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: bond of the most sacred trust, I reckon is a
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: new type of betrayal. It's an escalated type of murder,
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: if you like. And so, yeah, I won't be campaigning
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: against the death penalty on this one.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Can you just explain to me both, though, how you
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: can be so staunchly against it? And we've been talking
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: a lot about this, right, with respect to the Krista
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Pike issue, which we agree is just now basically inhumane
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: because they're having to keep her alive to then potentially
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: kill her because of this botched execution. But why is
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: it that your position on the death penalty only now
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: is kind of, I guess, shaky or wavering when it
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: comes to this issue of treason and not things like
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Krista Pike's gruesome murder, not things like those rampant pedophiles
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: and child molesters and rapists, people who also commit serious
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: and utter atrocities. Why is it only here that.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Your position changes?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: You rightly pointed out, I have two positions, but I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: don't think they're contradictory. I don't think a government should
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: execute its own citizens for crimes, criminal behaviour, but I
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: don't believe that this is that. This is a guy
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: who's in the military who, by his own admission, switched
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: sides to al-Qaeda and launched an attack on American soil
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: against American troops.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: So by my reasoning.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: The government has every right to execute that person because
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: he is not only committing treason, he's attacking the United States.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: He's become an enemy combatant. And I have no problem
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: with the death penalty in that instance.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Joe? Yeah, look, I still oppose the death penalty. And
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you a few reasons why. It's not too
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: sentimental or Pollyanna-ish. A lot of it is just plain practicality.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: But part of it is a matter of principle. Like James,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: I do not believe that the state should be in the...
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: in the business of killing its citizens. I think that
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: is fundamentally antithetical to what a state should be. If
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: Krista Pike's, you know, if the brother of Krista Pike's
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: victim killed her, I would say she had, you know,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: good on him. That's fantastic. But again, the state should
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: not be bloodying its hands with murder when it is
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: supposed to be in the business of dispensing justice and
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: keeping the community safe. So lock her up forever and ever.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: The other thing I would say with this guy, death
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: is not something clearly that puts al-Qaeda officers off their jobs.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: It is not something, they have enough suicide bombers to
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: prove that. So the idea of death could even be
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: quite exciting. Death by firing squad. Yes, I'm a martyr,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: I get my 72 virgins. Whereas if you lock a
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: miserable piece of S like this away for, you know, 30, 40,
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: the rest of his life, then that I think is actually,
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: probably wouldn't act as a disincentive either. But, again, I
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: think that would be a greater punishment. You don't get
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: the glory of martyrdom. You don't get to go out
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: in a hail of bullets. You get to rot away
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: in a jail cell completely.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: You've just confused me.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: So are you now saying you don't agree with the
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: death penalty for this al-Qaeda operative?
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: No, I'm saying I would not oppose it, but fine,
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: kill him, kill him 100 times.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: So, hang on.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: But I still, in theory.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: So would that view then also apply? Let's say, for instance,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: tomorrow our government actually instructed our ADF personnel to go
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: on the hunt and look for Hekma Tula, right, who
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: did the same thing. He was an operative within the
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Australian Defence Force at the time when we were Afghanistan
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: and actually turned on them and killed some of our servicemen.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Would you now say that Hekma Tula should be brought
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: back to our country and killed?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I think it's apples and oranges, but sure, why not?
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Why is it apples and oranges, though?
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: If you attack.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Australia, then I believe our government has the right to
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: use lethal force either in stopping the attack or in
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: dispensing military justice.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: OK, yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: I would say, by all means, go and shoot him
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: if you're chasing after him in a war zone or
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: even just he's a fugitive.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: But let's say they just caught him.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: He has to come again.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Should he be dragged back to Australia and killed now?
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Because you're talking about he's a combatant, he's an enemy
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: of the state. He is an enemy of the state
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: as well. He was identifying himself as an ally. I mean, look,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: you're right to have your views. My position has always
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: been clear and the reason.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: Wouldn't shed any tears if someone did kill him, though.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. And I want to be clear about that.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: But my position is immovable. It doesn't change based on
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: the circumstances. My reasons are rooted in faith. Of course,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: I've mentioned it several times. If this is the first
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: time that you're hearing it, you know, it's obviously because
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: I'm a woman of Christian faith. I do not believe
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: that it is my right to take away life, regardless
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: of how heinous and awful the crime that is committed.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: You shall not murder is one of the Ten Commandments,
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: number six, in fact, that Moses was given on Mount Sinai.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: So that is why I stay in the position that
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I stay. But I just was very curious to know
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: why you could have a position where you're saying, I'm
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: against it, but... Because then, to me, that sort of
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: opens up Pandora's box a little bit now, where you're
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: kind of like, well, kill him for treason, but then
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: don't kill them for that.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: But doesn't the state and our laws recognise these are
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: two different things? The Krista Pike, that's a criminal court issue.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Nadal Hassan, that's a military court issue.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: So already we're.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Talking about two very different types of people having committed
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: two very different kinds of acts, which therefore.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: in my view.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Legitimised two very different responses from the government.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Well, then how do we treat life then? Is it
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: different on a battlefield? I think it's.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: The same reason why terrorism is different from murder. It's different,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: you know, killing someone is terrible in any circumstance, but
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: there's a difference between killing someone because you lost control
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: of your senses or because you were insane or because
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: you are just a horrible, evil person. and killing someone
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: in a deliberate attempt to overthrow the established order of civilisation,
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: to overthrow the state, the hierarchy. And that's what these
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: guys do. And that's what terrorists do. They kill specifically
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: in order to impose a horrendous ideology on a population and..
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: and destroy the existing society.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: But do we lower ourselves to their level? Because we've
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: seen what happened. I mean, we're talking on the eve
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: of October 7. They have zero value.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Of life, right? You've got more to lose with a
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: terrorist than you do with a, if you like, civilian killer. Society...
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: A terrorist threatens all of society.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: But is he that threatening if he's in a gulag, say,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: for example, if he's in Alcatraz? Yeah.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Again, I'm not going to go and protest.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: We're not them.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to go and hold a vigil for
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: the guy.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: No. Not at all.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: I tell you what, though, I might just dim the
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: lights out of respect for him. And I might not
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: even have a choice in that matter if I'm at
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: the pre-COP31 summit. In Fiji, because they sadly, amid all
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: the talk of renewable energy, and I'm a big fan, guys,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: big fan.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: You would be.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: Well, you need a big fan, literally, to generate it.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: But despite all the assurances that it is still a
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: safe and reliable source of baseload power, it appears that
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: in just the most excruciating act of symbolism... The very
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: hotel in Fiji where the COP31 pre-summit is meeting had
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: a power outage in the middle of your friend and mine,
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: proto-teal Zali Steggall, giving her speech. Have a look at this.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: This is scenes. I mean, you can't argue with the
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: production values. This is Zali Steggall. in the dark as
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: she is trying to deliver her speech. She tried to
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: make the best of it. She said, a power outage
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: is trifling when across the Pacific people are facing the
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: loss of homes, land, cultures and traditions because of climate
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: impacts they did little to cause. That's the context we
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: need to focus on. However, the outage is a reminder
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: that reliable, affordable and resilient power is vital, especially for
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: Pacific Island nations dependent on imported fossil fuels. We need
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: to support our Pacific neighbours to build stronger, cleaner energy
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: systems while also helping communities deal with the harm they're
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: already experiencing. Which reminds me a bit, it's like the
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: kind of I did it on purpose thing. It's like
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: when you fall off your chair in front of a
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: girl you've got a crush on and you pretend that
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: you did it sort of deliberately. That's what Julius Caesar
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: did when he invaded or visited, whatever you like to
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: call it, when he visited Britain, Britannium, for the first time.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: Romans are very superstitious people. And he jumped off the
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: boat and he somehow tripped in the rigging and fell
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: over and And he very quickly, and because Romans are
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: so superstitious and they would thought, oh, this is a
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: terrible omen. Oh my God, the great Julius Caesar, the
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: gods have cursed him. He suddenly pretended that he was
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: just kissing the sand because he was so grateful to
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: be there. I feel like Zali Steggall's really kissing the
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: sand with that statement. See, this complete accident, which has
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: just made everyone humiliated, is in fact the very reason
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: why we need to be here gathered in Fiji.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I think the blackout was a wonderful thing because all
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: those in the audience were able to continue snoozing without
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: being caught, which would have been the modus operandi for
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: everyone listening to it. Why is Zali Steggall... at this
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: COP 31 or.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Well, they had to justify it, James. They had to
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: fill seats.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: This is a woman who's given her local electorate, which
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I live in, a roadmap to net zero, advising us
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: which sorts of foods we should eat in order to
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: better the climate and advising we should use our power
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: between the hours of 11am and.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: 2pm to cut on emissions.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she's flying to Fiji to give a speech to
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: the choir. She's not persuading anybody. They all agree with
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: her already. I'm just not sure why she has to
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: be there giving the speech.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: It must be going on one of those solar-powered planes, though.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: It must have been.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: But see, this is where the hypocrisy lies, right? And
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: this is where the frustration from everybody watching this, even
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: if you are an avid climate czar and you are
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: all in on the renewable energy scheme and you think
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: that that's the best pathway forward for our country. Surely
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: people can see the hypocrisy that's embedded with all of this, right?
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: We're going to get luxury flights to go over there,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: plus then we're going to blow a further $ 20 million
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: on luxury hotels, all of the carbon dioxide that's being
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: emitted into the world. If these people were genuinely serious
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: about the climate, they wouldn't be doing this. They would
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: be doing it all via Zoom and they wouldn't be
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: participating in this absolute and utter charade.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: And speaking of charade, I mean, how many world leaders
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: are actually attending this thing?
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Anthony Albanese is the only G20 leader.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: The only guy Chris Bowen could get there was his boss.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: That was it.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: That's true. To be fair, it is the first time
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: they have actually invited any leaders at all, and they
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: did manage to get Jose Ramos-Horta from East Timor.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: But Chris Bowen said the reason we don't normally invite
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: them is because they don't normally come.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Well, if you know they don't normally come.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Why have you spent all of these millions of dollars
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: of Australian taxpayer money and invited people who you know
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: in advance are probably.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: They come when Big Dog Bowen's in charge.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Big Dog Bowen. But more to the point as well,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: this is merely a consolation prize, right, because we didn't
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: get to host the COP summit. But a pre-COP summit?
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, can I just be crass for a minute?
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: They're taking the piss now, aren't they? Like this is
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: really taxpayers looking at this and going, A, how are
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: we getting bang for our buck? But B, what is
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: this gab fest going to achieve? What have these billions
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: and tens of billions of dollars that we've poured into
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: climate change and net zero efforts and Paris agreements and
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: all of the things that we've signed up to over
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: the years, what have they rendered?
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: It seems very much like Chris Bowen is not the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: top dog in Turkey. So they're running a little mini
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: summit in the Pacific where he can strut around and
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: be Presidente of the COP conference.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: That was part of the compromise deal. I mean, that
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: was part of the deal when Australia and Turkey were
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: going head to head about who'd host it. It ended
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: up being Turkey would host it. but Australia's climate change minister,
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: Chris Bowen, could go around and do all the other stuff.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: And so he's doing all the other stuff.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Which no-one cares about or supports except Chris Bowen.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Well, at least it's not as far to Fiji as
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: it is to Istanbul.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I loved, before we move on, what Barnaby Joyce had
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: to say about it because he posted the photograph of
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: the blackout and he said, Right on cue at the
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: cop flop in Fiji with Jacinda Ardern, Julia Gillard, Adam Bantz,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Ali Stegall, Chris Bowen and Prime Minister Anthony Albanese... The
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: intermittent power falls over, the lights go out and the
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: air conditioning goes a la natural. That is a great
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: recommendation for the train wreck that Australia has signed itself
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: up for. No doubt our climate minister will go and
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: point at things and tell us of all the carbon
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: dioxide they are stopping or saving or doing something marvellous with.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: And I thought he summed it up pretty well. Joe?
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: You've got to get to the bottom of whether or
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: not the hotel was actually powered by renewable energies or
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: fossil fuels, because Zali Stegall... would seem to be suggesting
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: this is why we need to get rid of fossil
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: fuels because they're so unreliable.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: But, you know.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Well, I think.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: What if there's a windfall?
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: We're giving billions, by the way, to the Pacific to
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: help combat climate change. So if that's the deal.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: I thought you just meant the booking fees.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: LAUGHTER Or the 600 million rugby league team. I could
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: go on and on.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: And Sarah Hansen-Young has had a bit to say since
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the leadership ballot, which she.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I think she got... Was it two votes?
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: Two for Sarah Hansen-Young.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Which means someone would have voted for her and she
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: would have voted for herself.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: She's too right-wing, don't you know, James? She's too right-wing
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: for the Greens.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: She didn't enjoy losing.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: But in attacking One Nation, just have a listen to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: the language she uses. The good news is she's no
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: longer describing One Nation as.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: far right. That's the good news. Have a listen.
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: It's going to take a huge effort to stop Pauline
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: Hanson and the radical right from wrecking this country.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So there you go. One nation are not far right. No, no,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: they're radical right.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And in case you thought that was just, you know,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: her speaking off the cuff, here she was on her
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: own podcast just this week.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: The challenge we have right now to take on the radical,
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: rabid right, and to stop Pauline Hanson from wrecking this nation?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Now, I spent a bit of time this afternoon trying
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: to find any newspaper clippings where she had referred to
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: the radical right prior to this week. I can find
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: far right, I can find extreme right, I cannot find
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: radical right.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I think it's a new one.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: You're the political expert here. Why has she decided to
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: use this language? Because it's deliberate.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: She's kind of almost made it sound cooler, hasn't she?
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: It's like the bodacious right. But I think it's probably
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: a response to, I think there's a couple of things.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: One is that when you refer to One Nation as
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: far right, you immediately get pushback from people saying, hang
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: on a minute, I'm not far right, I'm just a conservative, blah, blah, blah.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: And so she's trying to find a way to put
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: it in the sort of crazy basket without using the
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: word far right, I think. That's one explanation. Another is
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: that obviously the left often gets called the crazy left,
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: often get called the radical left. And so perhaps she's
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: sort of saying that, in fact, it's the right who
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: are radical, not us. I think the greater irony, of course,
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: would be that, as I've always said, it is the
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: radical left, that fuels the radical right, as we saw
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: with the last story, the refugee who gets crowned in
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: every possible glory imaginable and then decides that the country
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: that she's given her everything is racist. So I think
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: the radical left just fuels that radical right. And maybe
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Sarah Hansen-Young is having a sort of moment of awakening
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: and realising now that the radical left of the Greens
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: has rejected her.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Hang on a minute. Moment of awakening. The greatest irony
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: in all of this was listening to her say that
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: One Nation is wrecking the country. Darl, have you read
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: the papers lately? Have you seen what's going on? I mean,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: that's what's confusing to me. If anyone's wrecking the country
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: right now, it's this current government.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Well, the Greens have got a plan to wreck the country,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: a brand-new plan. The Greens.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Institute, which is a think tank linked to the Greens party,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: have recommended that the Australian government spend $ 25 billion forcibly
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: acquiring a couple of hundred coals and woolly stores and
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: turning them into government run department stores or supermarkets. This
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: is clearly copied from Mamdani in New York. The Green
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Institute here in Australia are saying that it would knock 30%
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: off grocery prices. That's exactly the figure that Mamdani is
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: promising to knock off grocery prices. in New York, and
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the Greens Institute is saying it would save Australian families
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: about $ 3, 000 a year.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: State-run... Take that figure to the bank... grocery stores.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: The Greens have always been, you know, infamously good with numbers.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: But, I mean, didn't the USS.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Try this already.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: State-run grocery stores are a recipe for empty shelves, food rationing.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Famine.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And famine, right?
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Famine, right. We're talking about millions of people that died, right,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: through the Soviet era. And then you've got to look
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: at what Mao did, right, in communist China too. There's
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: no different. I mean, we're talking historians.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: The Great Leap Forward.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: The Great Leap Forward.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: He's saying it wasn't the Great Leap Forward.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: It was literally, historians are saying it went between like
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: 40 to 55 million people died. 10 million people. We
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: are talking a lot of people. It was the worst
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: famine disaster in history. Tell me where, in recorded history now,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: in countries that have adopted policies that fall under the
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: communist umbrella or have pursued the socialism path, countries like Poland, Hungary, Cuba, Venezuela,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: all of these nations, where have these policies prospered?
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Well, you know the old saying... Joe, there's nothing wrong
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: with socialism. It just hasn't been done properly.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Well, that's Mamdani's view.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: There's the other old saying, I think it was Albert Einstein,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: which is the definition of insanity is doing the same
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but, Joe, why do they... Why does everyone in
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: power throughout history think, like a Mamdani figure now.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: Or the crazy lefties... but why do.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: They think that they can do it better?
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: Because it's ideology. This is the thing, and, again, this
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: is one of my obsessions, is the difference between the
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: ideologues on the left and the pragmatists. When... an ideology doesn't,
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: they become so obsessed, so one-eyed. And again, it fills,
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: you'd appreciate this. It fills the space that religion used
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: to fill. So instead of, you know, believing unequivocally in
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: a God, you believe unequivocally in Marxism. You believe unequivocally
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: in the ideology. And it's honestly, it's the only reason,
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: the only way you can understand it, because it's the
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: only thing that explains why people are prepared to to
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: go so far, so slavishly to it. And again, when
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: the real world doesn't match up to the ideology. So
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: when you implement the policies, right, and it's all a disaster,
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: there's famine, you know, people die in their millions or
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: tens of millions. You're so obsessed, just like, you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: a fundamentalist Islamist, for example, they wouldn't say, oh, maybe
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: this means there's no Allah. He'd say, no, this is
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: proof that the world is flawed, the world is broken
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: and it needs to be remade. And that is what
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: these crazy fundamentalists on the political left think as well.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: And again, it is insane and we know what's happened
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: in the USSR and even in New York where, thankfully,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: we don't have the risk of famine anymore, but even
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: in New York, from what I've seen, there's grocery stores
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: that Mamdani has set up have empty shelves because, of course,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: it doesn't make sense any sense whatsoever. I mean, how
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: is the government going to suddenly become so much better
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: at the private sector?
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Well, they've already had to field two lawsuits that have
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: been filed because they see it as a greater threat
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: to competition and they believe it's also violating antitrust laws.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: But you've also, in New York and broader America, got,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: you know, the mom and pop... sort of stores. We
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: sort of don't have that here. We've got your lesser
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: known figures like, you know, like IGA. I mean, they're
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: not lesser known, but they're less of a player than
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: what your duopoly between Coles and Woolworths are. But that's
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: the issue for Mamdani over there is that you've the
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: little bodegas as well who were feeling like, hang on
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: a minute, this has nothing to do with you actually
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: helping us and you thinking that this socialist policy is
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: more a utopia for everyone and you don't realise you're
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: cutting us off at the knees.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. But anyway, guaranteed they'll do it
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: again and I guarantee the Greens will think it's a
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: fantastic idea. Although they're such Americophiles, aren't they, now that
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Mungani's become... They're bringing.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: This US-style politics to Australia.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Yes!
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: They don't like Orcas, but they like New Yorkers. LAUGHTER
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Something else I couldn't quite get my head around, and
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: I'm not even entirely sure why, is Angus Taylor, who,
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: let's face it, needs all the help he can get
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: right now... used this very strange expression. I mean, you
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: think that the radical right is newly minted. I think
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Angus Taylor might have come up with a whole new
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: war word himself, Freudian slip, when he paid tribute to
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: our incredible diggers.
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: I want to offer our most heartfelt thoughts and condolences
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: for the family, loved ones and unit mates of an
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: Australian soldier who tragically died during a training exercise in
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: in the Northern Territory yesterday. Another tragic reminder that our
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: men and women warfighters put their lives on the line
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: even when they're not in combat.
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: Now, obviously, just an awful story there, and we share
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: our condolences and thoughts as well, of course. But warfighters,
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: is that a new term that I have just heard?
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: Is that a new word for soldier?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's new in Australia.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: It reminded me immediately of Pete Hegseth in the US,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: who is not the Secretary of Defence.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: He's the Secretary of War.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And so our soldiers are our defence personnel, according to
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Angus Taylor, are now our war fighters.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I don't dislike the phrase.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I think that clip typifies what's wrong with Angus Taylor
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: is that if he's trying to introduce a new term,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: which frankly I think he was, it's a new term,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: But he stutters and stumbles over it. It's not confident.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: He doesn't own the moment. And that typified the whole
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: press conference, really, in announcing his new immigration policy.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: He was very much note-bound.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: He's meant to be talking about saving the nation, but
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: didn't really speak from the heart. And the evidence of
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: that was when Jane Hume, John O'Donoghue and Matt Canavan spoke,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Angus Taylor shrunk completely. before our eyes in comparison to
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: those around him. He's not a great communicator.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: It was a very lengthy press conference. And oftentimes you'd
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: see like Canavan interjecting. I just want to add to that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: And I think Matt Canavan is brilliant, by the way.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: He's a fantastic politician and a great communicator, very effective politician.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: And likewise, John O'Donoghue, to be fair. But I just
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: that cut through. I mean, personally, I didn't really notice
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: the term warfighter as much. And then you raised it
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: and I went, yeah, actually, that's that's stronger language than
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: they would normally use. I don't have a problem with
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: the term at all. They are warfighters. That's who they are.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: And I think it actually just articulates what they do
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: in an even greater sense. But I think the greatest
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: danger for Angus Taylor is not so much going to
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: be the policy. I think there's been a lot of
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: reaction to it, to be fair to them. We would
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: have smashed them if they went soft on this. We
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: would have said, here you go, the moderates and the
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: bedwetters again. They were damned if they didn't. They were
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: damned if they didn't. My issue with them is how
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: do you get out of the early 20s in the
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: polls where you've been stuck? for a large portion of
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: this year. And you have dipped back into the early
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: teens occasionally. It's not your policy that's the issue. I
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: actually think it's the cut-through. People have stopped listening. How
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: do they fix that now?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Reading the comments in the paper, Jo, people weren't criticising
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: the policy. They were simply saying... late to the party.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: How do we know you're going to go through with this?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: You've had previous opportunities saying you were going to do things.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: You never did it.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So it was the cynicism rather than a straight out
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: criticism of the policy.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: And again, he's trapped. If he tries to be too
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: tough and robust on the right, he puts our people
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: in the middle. So speaking of warfighters, how long do
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: you think it's going to be before another certain former
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: warfighter gets parachuted into the Liberal leadership in the form
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: of SAS officer... Andrew Hastie.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to happen.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I think Andrew Hastie's stocks have gone down significantly since
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: he was a contender. I tell you who has, I think,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: visibly improved lately and I think is making real effort
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: is Dan Tehan.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: But do you see him as a leader?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't, but I'm starting to.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: You know, all the people within.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: He's improved his performance.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: All the people within the Coalition that I see as
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: a fabulous leader, they all sit in the Senate. It's
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: such a shame. I would sooner see an Alex Arntich, actually,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: the leader of the Coalition. I'd sooner see a Matt
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: Canavan as the leader. Bridget McKenzie, she's fire. Michaelia Cash, fire.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: This is who you need people.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: Matt Canavan would have to change parties, though.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, clearly, and I know, but ultimately these are
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: the people that I would love to see in that
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: leadership role. We haven't arrived to a point where people
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: feel genuinely excited about by who is in that leadership chair.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: And to go down the path of Andrew Hastie would
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: be a gargantuan mistake. I have tremendous respect for that
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: man as someone who has served our nation, but as
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: a politician, he is political kryptonite and has made too
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: many mistakes and made it about himself when it should
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: be about the party and the people.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yep, I reckon you're absolutely right. Up next, your first
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: look at tomorrow's newspapers. But just before we go to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the break, Joe.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Yes, thank you very much, James. Look, I just wanted
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: to say I've been made aware today that some viewers
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: were offended by comments I made last night that they
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: mistakenly took to be anti-Semitic. Can I please stress that
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: I was being sarcastic? I was taking aim at the
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: vile conspiracy theory that Jews control financial systems. To be very,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: very clear... I was attempting to lampoon and to mock
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: this anti-Semitic trope. I was not endorsing it. So for
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: anyone who took it literally, please know, please rest assured,
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: it was very much the opposite. I've been a very
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: strong friend and supporter of the Jewish community for many years,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: and I sorry that my obviously poor attempt of irony
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: may have been taken the wrong way by some viewers.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the program. Your first look at tomorrow's headlines.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: We'll start with the Australian presented by the wonderful Lucy Zeller.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Let's see what's making headlines across the front
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: page of the Oz and the PM's optimism over evidence.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Nation will hit 2030 target and pre-cop was no flop.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Keep pushing that up the hill. Anthony Albanese has declared
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: optimism is an important ingredient in achieving global environmental action
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: and he's confident that Australia will meet its 82% requirement
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Renewable target by 2030. Despite the nation's troubled energy transition,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: the Prime Minister's rallying call to pre-COP delegates in Fiji
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: came as it was revealed climate change and energy minister
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Chris Bowen secured only about half the record number of
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: international ministers who attended the same event in Abu Dhabi
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: three years ago. And there's more to this story as
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: well in terms of the photograph that you can see
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: of Julia Gillard, former Prime Minister, on the front page.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: wearing this ceremonial wreath, you'll say, but the Prime Minister
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: chose not to. Let's take a look. Now, interestingly in
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: all of this, you can see the likes of Julia
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Gillard wearing it and here he is being gifted it,
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: but then makes the decision, James, to take it off
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: and pass it to his advisor.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: He does and you can see everyone beside him, they're
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: all wearing it. Albanese does not allow it to be
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: placed on his head. I suppose, Joe, he's thinking of
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the media photographs and thinking, I don't want to be
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: photographed with this thing on my noggin.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: It's like never stand in front of an exit sign.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Just a golden rule. If you do not want an
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: image used over and over and over again, think Alexander
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: Downer pulling on the fishnets. If you... Do not want
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: that to be basically stapled to your back for the
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: rest of your career. Do not.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but hang on.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Is that really that shocking, though?
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: It could be anything. Just think of the headlines that
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: could go with it. Like, what are they thinking? Paradise Lost. No.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Do you know what?
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: I got late Hawaiian style.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: We ran footage here, and it did the rounds on
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: a couple of News 24 programs, of the Brazilian national
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: team who came here. Some of them were seen to
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: be smirking at the Indigenous, the welcome to country, right?
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: And it was criticised by a large section of the country.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: They were disrespecting culture.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: There you go. So does this not fall into that
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: same category, just because you don't want to be a meme?
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: He's wearing the Bula Bula shirt. I mean, come on.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Which, remember that time he wore the wrong colour?
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: How much?
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Remember that?
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I think you're right.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: He's refusing to wear it because he doesn't want to
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: look silly.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: No, but I think that in and of itself is.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Which is a comment on their culture, is it not?
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: But isn't that in and of itself petty?
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't want to wear it either, to be clear, but.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: It's just a flower crown. Like, come on, lads, is
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: it that big a deal? If you're being welcomed.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: Headlines are just writing themselves.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: I think you're reading too much into it. Chris Bowen
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: didn't wear it either.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Chris Bowen kept it on his lap.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Rude.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Rude. I think it's rude. You can't say one's rude
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: and the other's not. Anyway, elsewhere across the front page
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: of The Oz, US envoy says PM neutered Siegel and
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: neglected anti-Semitism report. This is an exclusive via James Dowling.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: US President Donald Trump's handpicked anti-Semitism advisor believes warning to
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Labor by special envoy Gillian Siegel fell on deaf ears
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: and says it took a worldwide effort to drag Anthony
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Albanese into calling a royal commission in a strong rebuke
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: On the eve of the three-year anniversary of the October
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: 7 Hamas attacks, anti-Semitism envoy Yehuda Kaploon suggested the Prime
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Minister had neutered Ms Siegel and failed to respect her guidance.
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: Joe?
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, probably. No, I don't think that's true. I think
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Gillian Siegel has been quite outspoken in what she... And
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: I think she's made a lot of very strong points.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: If anything, the biggest criticism is that the government hasn't acted...
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: on some of her recommendations as quickly as it might have.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: But I don't think in any way she's been neutered.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: I think quite the contrary. She was hired to fix
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: a problem that the government desperately needed fixing to solve
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: both a moral and a political problem for it, which
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: was the rise in anti-Semitism.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: But don't you think they only really started taking notice
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: of her until, you know, Bondi happened? That was the
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: argument that was leveraged.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Isn't the evidence that they have neutered her the fact
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: that They delayed her appointment, did they not, until they
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: also had an Islamophobia envoy.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And then they delayed.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Her report until they also had the Islamophobia envoy's report.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: And so at every point.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: They've said, look, we take anti-Semitism very seriously, but let's
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: just wait for the Islamophobia person to catch up, which
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: says we don't take it that seriously.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, although they did announce her first. So they announced
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: her quite some time before they announced anyone as the
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: Islamophobia envoy from memory. So they did say they were
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: going to get one for Alzheimerphobia, but she was announced first.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: But I think the issue was that they weren't implementing
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: her recommendations. It was only until the massacre happened that
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: they went, oh, and I'm paraphrasing the sentiment, but, oh, gee,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: we'd better look at those now and start implementing the
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: recommendations and then get dragged kicking and screaming to a
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Royal Commission, right?
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. I think after Bondi, people went back
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: and said, right, what has this... And it was found
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: that some.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Of the recommendations.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: still hadn't been implemented after a few months.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: All right, front page of tomorrow's Herald Sun. Ben's Bushwhack
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: reads the headline.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Farmers' Fury.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Each of these families pictured on the front page has
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: been hit with fines for refusing to let their properties
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: be invaded by transmission line projects. The regional backlash against
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Labor has reached a flashpoint just weeks before the state election.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I think front pages like this will be absolutely damning
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: for the Labor government because... Most Aussies have an affinity
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: for our farming communities. Most Aussies appreciate how hard they work,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: the tough conditions. And then when the government make policies
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: that just add a burden to our already burdened farming communities,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I think people just get pretty ticked off with it.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: And for these people to have fines because they didn't
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: want transmission lines running through the middle of their properties.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: They've just been disrespected by the government.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: And read between the lines to you don't have to
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: be a farmer to have sympathy as anyone that's living
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: on a patch of land whether you rent or own
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: the idea that someone could come onto your property and
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: declare we're going to do this whether you like it
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: or not and then we're going to fine you if
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: you don't like it and you won't let us on.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: I mean that in and of itself is something that
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: could resonate with everybody. I think it's a very effective
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: front page. I've spent time down in Crookwell We've got
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: friends down there, they've got a property out on a
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: farm with some cattle. you should see the signs, the
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: community down there who were revolting against these turbines, which,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: by the way, are an eyesore. So stand with the farmers, people.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: It is incredibly the way that you've got this sort
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: of white-hot issue in which people are really angry and
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: sometimes you feel like the government's going, hmm, how can
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: I piss off these people more? Now, what do you
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: give the story that has everything? I'll tell you what
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: you give it. You give it the Cairns Post because
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: they have this absolute cracker jack on the front Adult
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: entertainer moved eight kilograms in five months.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Ew.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: Dealer's one million Coke empire. I mean, that is just
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: a Seven Deadly Sins ticker box, isn't it?
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: Marnie Buchanan is the one with the story. An unlikely
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: drug wholesaler hooked into the cocaine trade through her work
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: as an adult entertainer is facing a double digit jail...
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: That better not be a... Jailed sentence for trafficking an
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: estimated eight kilograms of the party drug throughout Cairns. Smithfield
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: woman Savannah Rose Arnie Bowker, I assume that that's not
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: her stage name, 27, was wholesaling ounce amounts of cocaine
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: to suppliers who had stables of runners. These included a
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: number of Cairns bikers... The bikers are involved. What are
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: you going to tell me next? Catholic Church? Honestly.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Stop it.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Bite your tongue. What have they ever... Anyway. And not
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: nightclub dealers. If you can't trust your nightclub dealers... And
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: then society's really gone to the dogs, hasn't it?
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: It's going from bad to worse, isn't it?
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: Oh, Arnie Bowker pleaded guilty in the Cairns Supreme Court. Oh,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: there you go. So she did it. Anyway, just a
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: good old-fashioned knees-up tabloid yarn.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: We really needed that.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: We did. There you go.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: And on the front page of the advertiser, very quickly,
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: security fail, US agents breach multiple Aussie military sites, NCIS
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: exposes our bases, the Pentagon and US Department of War
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: ordered undercover NCIS agents to breach Australian Defence Force bases
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: in a series of covert missions to test security provisions
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: for shared AUKUS intelligence. I dare say no surprises when
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: I read the following. Those security measures failed on multiple counts.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: So much for Anthony Albanese's election promise in 2022 that
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: we would take national security seriously.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Indeed.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Alright, after the break, a man arrested after police find.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: 300 tortoises in his car. That's next. Welcome back to
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the program.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Lucy, I've got to ask you as a mum, do
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: you have photographs, you know, not long after you gave
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: birth to your kids?
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I certainly do.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Precious memories.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: But really nice memories. I mean, it's a pretty traumatic experience.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: I can very proudly say that I've given birth naturally
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: to two children, no drugs, because the time escaped, right?
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: By the time I called out for it, it was like,
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: it's too late.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Late.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: But we have beautiful photos and memories of my midwife
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: who was there with me for my son's birth as well.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Really loving and wonderful. And as we build up towards Halloween,
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: some houses celebrate. I certainly don't. I think it's weird
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: that we creep out children. But in this instance, this
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: mum decided to share her birthing experience, take a look
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: at how her midwife's were dressed, and I'll tell you
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: a little bit more about the story. When she looks
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: back on her birthing experience, her child was born on Halloween,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: the nurses and midwives were dressed as pizzas. Do either
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: of you have any recollection of those moments, Joe?
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: There's so many mixed messages going on there.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: That's the part I did not understand. Why are they
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: dressed as pizzas at Halloween? I didn't understand that.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Well, you can dress as whatever you like on Halloween.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: You can dress as a pizza, you can dress as
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: a hot dog, you can dress as something creepy.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Aren't you meant to be like a demon or a
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: witch or a goblin or something?
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: No, but I'd rather a pizza, actually, wouldn't you, instead
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: of a demon or a goblin? I mean, that's all creepy.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: Why would you give birth on Halloween? I mean, isn't
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: it scary enough already?
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: LAUGHTER Very fun.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: Now, on to some more very slowly breaking news. A
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: Maltese man is facing animal cruelty charges. Oh, that's not nice.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: After allegedly attempting to transport, wait for it, 300 tortoises
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: and 77 parrots from Sicily to Malta. It's the sort
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: of story where people go, why the parrots? But, yes,
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: the animals were found packed into a car near the
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: boarding area for a Malta-bound catamaran during an inspection at
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: the Sicilian port of Pozzallo, the local unit of Italy's
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: financial police squad said. They spotted the man inside a
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: car that lacked adequate space and temperature control. What a monster.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: Because tortoises, I imagine, I mean, the car probably wasn't
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: even filled with water.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: Anyway, let's have a look. I mean, what was he driving?
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: A Hyundai Santa Fe? That's a lot of... That's a
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: lot of cargo.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Can I offer, was he slightly relieved he got caught?
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine the parrots, the squawking that would have
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: been going on in that car? These were his car, right?
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And presumably he was going to transfer these onto a
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: catamaran to take to.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Where's he going? To Malta.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: Malta.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Do you think no one was going to see him
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: as he buried these 300 tortoises and.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: However many parrots.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: I don't know a huge amount about the animal smuggling business,
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: but I imagine not.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks for that insight, Joe.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Speaking of animals, we've got a plague in Sydney, not
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: of tortoises or parrots, but of moths. In fact, people
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: have been turning up at hospital emergency departments with moths
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: caught in their ears. That's not to mention the people
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: that have swallowed them. And here's a guy bemoaning all
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: these moths on Sydney Beach.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Have a look.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: See all this here?
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: That you assume is washed up seaweed, it is washed
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: up moths.
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: It's f * * * ing moths.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: It is moths.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: It is a.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: What in the f * * *?
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: It's actually quite sad.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: There you go. That's just a horrible play.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Frogs or anything else.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: But not them. Yuck, yuck. We've got to go. Stick around.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Coming up is the Rita Pennehy show. We'll see you
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Good night.