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We are encouraging pitchers to fail at PCU · The Mound Visit

0:00
Speaker 1: All right, we're back with another episode of The Mountain Visit.
0:03
Speaker 1: Got Jackson Hicks back on the call. Excited to dive
0:06
Speaker 1: into some cool topics today. But first off, while it's
0:09
Speaker 1: fresh in my mind, I was thinking about the Brewers
0:12
Speaker 1: game last night, and I thought when they hit that
0:14
Speaker 1: homer in the 12th or whatever it was, I thought
0:15
Speaker 1: that was going to be it. But pretty excited that
0:17
Speaker 1: there's at least going to be one more night of baseball.
0:19
Speaker 1: But what were your thoughts on the game last night?
0:21
Speaker 1: Any takeaways?
0:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I thought that home run was going
0:24
Speaker 2: to be it too. I mean, I think the big
0:26
Speaker 2: thing was how well Ian Seymour played shut down that
0:30
Speaker 2: inning after that. Would have been very easy for it
0:33
Speaker 2: to kind of spiral right there, but did a good
0:36
Speaker 2: job of limiting it at one run, especially after Churrio
0:40
Speaker 2: had that double with two outs. Could have easily given
0:43
Speaker 2: up another run, but just leaving it at one run
0:46
Speaker 2: kind of put the pressure on the Brewers, and you
0:48
Speaker 2: saw with the error to lead off the next inning,
0:51
Speaker 2: and then a couple singles, and like you said, glad
0:54
Speaker 2: we get some more baseball. But What other thoughts did
0:58
Speaker 2: you have about the game last night? Or was that
1:00
Speaker 2: kind of the main thing?
1:01
Speaker 1: I didn't really get to watch a lot of it
1:03
Speaker 1: with a couple of kids running around. It's tough to
1:05
Speaker 1: watch a baseball game closely these days. So usually I
1:08
Speaker 1: watch it the closest in the facility. But it was good. Yeah,
1:13
Speaker 1: nothing really stood out to me. I would say that
1:15
Speaker 1: Griffin Jacks, it was cool to see him throw. He
1:17
Speaker 1: was in the Twins org. It was cool to see
1:19
Speaker 1: him start, especially as he's converted back to a starter.
1:21
Speaker 1: He was a starter in the Twins org when he
1:23
Speaker 1: first came up and then was obviously a successful reliever
1:25
Speaker 1: for a while. So it was cool to see him
1:27
Speaker 1: have some success as a starter the second half of
1:29
Speaker 1: the year and pitched well last night. And now we
1:32
Speaker 1: get to see the Miz pitch for the Brewers again.
1:34
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure what the Rays are doing. Probably
1:36
Speaker 1: going to be more of a bullpen type game. I
1:38
Speaker 1: know they mentioned Rasmussen, but probably not bringing him back
1:42
Speaker 1: on short rest considering his injury history.
1:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it'll be kind of like yesterday, all
1:47
Speaker 2: hands on deck and try to piece together nine innings.
1:49
Speaker 2: And as a fan of bullpen arms, hopefully it's a
1:54
Speaker 2: good job from the bullpen staff.
1:56
Speaker 3: Yep, for sure.
2:00
Speaker 1: Obviously, neither of us have pitched at that high of
2:02
Speaker 1: a level, especially in a World Series. I wonder what
2:06
Speaker 1: the mental aspect is like for players, if they truly
2:10
Speaker 1: are able to treat it like a regular game, or
2:12
Speaker 1: if there is that added pressure to where they don't
2:16
Speaker 1: even feel like themselves on the mound, which I know
2:18
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this a little bit today,
2:19
Speaker 1: about how us as coaches can instill confidence in our
2:23
Speaker 1: players and promote an environment where they can they can fail,
2:27
Speaker 1: they can push themselves, they can experiment and, and not
2:30
Speaker 1: worry about the end result necessarily. But, um, from your experience,
2:35
Speaker 1: obviously not pitching in a world series, but even just
2:37
Speaker 1: in higher level professional baseball, more important games, things of
2:41
Speaker 1: that nature.
2:41
Speaker 3: Like, did you feel anything different from like a regular game?
2:46
Speaker 4: Yes and no.
2:47
Speaker 2: I mean, there were definitely some games, whether it was, um,
2:51
Speaker 2: like when we were trying to clinch the playoffs in
2:53
Speaker 2: Fort Myers that first year, like we had some games
2:55
Speaker 2: to spare in the first half, but like when you
2:58
Speaker 2: walk into the clubhouse and you see the magic number
3:00
Speaker 2: of one written up on the whiteboard, there's a little
3:03
Speaker 2: bit of extra incentive of like, okay, I want to
3:06
Speaker 2: win so we can celebrate tonight. Or just thinking back
3:09
Speaker 2: when I was in Indy ball, there were a couple
3:10
Speaker 2: of times where I played a former team and there's
3:14
Speaker 2: some pressure of like, hey, I want to beat the
3:17
Speaker 2: team that released me, especially when they're a game away
3:20
Speaker 2: from clinching the playoffs. There was one game in particular
3:24
Speaker 2: at the end of the 2024 season. I'd started the
3:28
Speaker 2: year in Washington in the Frontier League, and they released
3:34
Speaker 2: me at the All-Star break, and then we played them
3:37
Speaker 2: the last weekend of the season. And if they won
3:39
Speaker 2: the last game, they were going to clinch the division,
3:42
Speaker 2: clinch the postseason. I came in to close out that game,
3:46
Speaker 2: and there was definitely a little bit of extra adrenaline
3:51
Speaker 2: for sure coming in. I think they ended up getting
3:56
Speaker 2: the tying run to third with one out, and I
3:59
Speaker 2: definitely felt an extra, like, I don't know if it
4:02
Speaker 2: was nerves or pressure, but it was like I am
4:05
Speaker 2: going to do everything in my power not to let
4:07
Speaker 2: them score here. And, like, obviously you always have that
4:11
Speaker 2: kind of mindset of, that guy on third's not scoring,
4:14
Speaker 2: but there's sometimes where I'm sure you experienced it in
4:17
Speaker 2: your playing career.
4:18
Speaker 4: It's just a little bit elevated.
4:19
Speaker 2: And like, you want a little bit more than say
4:21
Speaker 2: a random Wednesday day game in Bradenton when it's two
4:26
Speaker 2: o'clock and you're pitching in the afternoon.
4:29
Speaker 3: 100%.
4:29
Speaker 4: Yeah.
4:30
Speaker 1: There's just that natural elevation of the heart rate and
4:33
Speaker 1: just focus because it, you don't want to.
4:36
Speaker 3: Say it matters more, but it does matter more in
4:37
Speaker 3: that moment.
4:38
Speaker 1: Like it's, it's a bigger situation you want to come
4:40
Speaker 1: through for your team. And no, those are the, environments
4:43
Speaker 1: you want to be and that's what you're working towards
4:45
Speaker 1: right at the highest.
4:45
Speaker 3: Level or the big level like the world series when
4:47
Speaker 3: you're working for.
4:47
Speaker 1: To get to that that game and nothing can replicate
4:50
Speaker 1: that feeling in your training you can do the best
4:52
Speaker 1: you can with it but like i think that is
4:54
Speaker 1: where your your prep work and like understanding the controllables
4:57
Speaker 1: and how to carry yourself day in and day out
5:00
Speaker 1: really plays dividends at that time of the year but
5:02
Speaker 1: at the end of the day it's you have to
5:04
Speaker 1: just remember just to stay loose and have fun as
5:06
Speaker 1: difficult as it is to do It's totally different, totally random.
5:10
Speaker 1: But I have a question for you of if you
5:12
Speaker 1: think this is okay or if it's kind of weird.
5:15
Speaker 1: I saw a video of three former Rays players at
5:19
Speaker 1: the game last night. I don't know if you saw this.
5:22
Speaker 3: Did you see this?
5:23
Speaker 2: I saw them at the ALCS. I think Glassnow and Rosarena.
5:29
Speaker 4: Yeah.
5:29
Speaker 3: And Chris Archer, I think, was there.
5:31
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on specifically Tyler Glassnow, who's an
5:35
Speaker 1: active player, being at the Rays game, cheering on the
5:38
Speaker 1: Rays and doing all that.
5:40
Speaker 3: Do you think that's okay? Or is that kind of weird?
5:42
Speaker 3: And would the Dodgers be pissed off about that?
5:45
Speaker 2: I don't know if the Dodgers would be pissed off,
5:47
Speaker 2: but I think it's maybe a little bit odd.
5:50
Speaker 4: I mean, like, like obviously like.
5:55
Speaker 2: You want your friends and you know, people on that team,
5:58
Speaker 2: you want them to do well and be successful. Um,
6:02
Speaker 2: and like, you'll see guys at other games in the
6:04
Speaker 2: post season, but, Yeah, I don't know. I think it
6:08
Speaker 2: might be a little bit odd. It could be weird
6:11
Speaker 2: if they play each other next.
6:12
Speaker 4: Year in the playoffs. Right.
6:16
Speaker 2: I mean, Rosarena with the Mariners, they're in the same division,
6:21
Speaker 2: or same American League.
6:22
Speaker 4: I mean.
6:23
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it could be... It's definitely a little odd.
6:27
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it in the ALCS. What are
6:28
Speaker 2: your thoughts on it?
6:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it just seems weird to me. Like,
6:32
Speaker 1: when I first saw the video, I thought it was fake.
6:33
Speaker 1: You know how sometimes you'll see videos where... they say
6:36
Speaker 1: it's certain players and it's just people that just kind
6:38
Speaker 1: of look like them and they just kind of make
6:40
Speaker 1: a joke about it. That's what I thought at first.
6:42
Speaker 1: I was like, no, that that's Tyler glass. But anyway,
6:46
Speaker 1: just something.
6:48
Speaker 2: The ALCS Caminero did the Rosarena celebration to a Rosarena,
6:52
Speaker 2: the crossed arms.
6:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:56
Speaker 4: Which it's a cool moment, but it's a little odd
6:59
Speaker 4: for active players. I feel like.
7:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
7:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:02
Speaker 1: It's a little different, but yeah, that was just a
7:03
Speaker 1: random thought I had, but, Let's get into what we're
7:05
Speaker 1: going to talk about today. I know you're going to
7:07
Speaker 1: take the lead on this one, so speak to me,
7:09
Speaker 1: guide me.
7:10
Speaker 3: What are we going to dive into?
7:11
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's an idea that has kind of been
7:14
Speaker 2: percolating in my brain for, I guess, seven years now.
7:19
Speaker 2: I took an entrepreneurship class my senior year of college,
7:23
Speaker 2: and one of the things we talked about there was
7:25
Speaker 2: psychological safety, which I don't know how familiar you are
7:29
Speaker 2: with the idea of But it's basically the idea that
7:32
Speaker 2: you can speak up and share ideas and concerns, ask questions,
7:35
Speaker 2: and really just kind of admit mistakes and fail without
7:40
Speaker 2: the fear of punishment or retribution or people kind of
7:46
Speaker 2: judging you as a person around that and creating a
7:50
Speaker 2: safe environment where you can fail. And obviously in that
7:53
Speaker 2: entrepreneurship class, we were talking about it in a business sense.
7:57
Speaker 2: And a lot of the stuff I've read online since
7:59
Speaker 2: then is referring to it as like how as a
8:02
Speaker 2: CEO or an executive or something like that, how you
8:06
Speaker 2: can create that sort of environment on your business team.
8:10
Speaker 2: But I do think it really kind of applies to
8:13
Speaker 2: the mental performance of baseball, especially in a baseball podcast, obviously.
8:20
Speaker 2: But I do think that as coaches kind of creating
8:24
Speaker 2: that environment of, where it's okay to fail and you're
8:29
Speaker 2: not going to be judged as a person. Like you
8:33
Speaker 2: can have honest conversations and you can still acknowledge mistakes
8:38
Speaker 2: and talk about where you failed, but it's not a
8:40
Speaker 2: reflection of you're a bad person or you did this
8:44
Speaker 2: wrong and you better never do that again.
8:46
Speaker 4: Because I think that creates a very negative environment.
8:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, 100%.
8:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually, I don't know what the class is,
8:54
Speaker 1: probably a psychology class, but I learned about this before
8:58
Speaker 1: when I was in college as well. I can't remember
8:59
Speaker 1: the class it was, but yeah, I'm definitely familiar with
9:02
Speaker 1: this concept. And as you were talking, I was just
9:04
Speaker 1: thinking about situations like that in my own life as
9:07
Speaker 1: a baseball player and various jobs that I've had where.
9:10
Speaker 3: Some as a player, it felt like I was walking
9:13
Speaker 3: on eggshells.
9:14
Speaker 1: If I made one mistake, I was never going to
9:16
Speaker 1: play again, or I was going to be yelled at,
9:18
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. And there was other places it
9:19
Speaker 1: was Not that there was infinite opportunities, but there was
9:23
Speaker 1: an opportunity to try new things and fail, and my
9:26
Speaker 1: job wasn't necessarily on the line. Independent ball is probably
9:30
Speaker 1: a great example of there not necessarily being that safety net,
9:34
Speaker 1: and it's not wrong or good, I guess, from the
9:38
Speaker 1: coach's standpoint. They just have so many players to choose
9:40
Speaker 1: from to where if you're not performing, they can release
9:42
Speaker 1: you and get a new player. It might be a
9:45
Speaker 1: little bit different from what you're talking about as far
9:47
Speaker 1: as what the environment the coach is creating, but I
9:49
Speaker 1: think There can be that added pressure of there being
9:52
Speaker 1: so much weight on every single game that you have
9:55
Speaker 1: as a player to where if I don't perform well,
9:57
Speaker 1: then I might be out of a job tonight, right?
10:00
Speaker 1: like I might be called to the manager's office after
10:01
Speaker 1: the game so there's that aspect from independent ball that
10:04
Speaker 1: I know I felt and and went through and I
10:06
Speaker 1: know you have as well and then like a coaching
10:09
Speaker 1: perspective like I've had various coaching jobs and there's been
10:12
Speaker 1: some that were better than others of course there's been
10:14
Speaker 1: some where like the twins for example they've very good
10:18
Speaker 1: at encouraging you to try new things it's okay if
10:21
Speaker 1: we fail as long as we are trying new things
10:24
Speaker 1: and we're trying to get better like at the end
10:25
Speaker 1: of the day that's what we care about like the
10:27
Speaker 1: worst thing you could do is is nothing to just
10:29
Speaker 1: stay the same and not try to push yourself as
10:30
Speaker 1: a coach or try to get players better you're not
10:33
Speaker 1: expected or we weren't expected to get every player better
10:37
Speaker 1: every single time and for every single tool that we
10:39
Speaker 1: use or every single plan that came out to actually
10:41
Speaker 1: work perfectly.
10:41
Speaker 3: If it did, awesome.
10:43
Speaker 1: But that wasn't necessarily reality or even necessarily how we
10:49
Speaker 1: were being evaluated. We were being evaluated by how we thought,
10:53
Speaker 1: what our process was, and our ability to adjust and
10:56
Speaker 1: adapt based off of what we were seeing. And then
10:59
Speaker 1: there's other jobs I had, I won't say places, but where, yeah,
11:01
Speaker 1: it felt like you didn't have to do anything wrong necessarily.
11:04
Speaker 1: Just if the person, the boss was in a bad mood,
11:09
Speaker 1: you were going to feel the heat and it was
11:11
Speaker 1: just an uncomfortable situation. So those are kind of the
11:14
Speaker 1: differences I've seen as a player and a coach.
11:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I totally agree with it.
11:19
Speaker 2: And even from like an independent ball perspective, like, yeah,
11:22
Speaker 2: you do have a lot less of a safety net
11:26
Speaker 2: because there's, like the teams haven't really invested anything into
11:30
Speaker 2: you and it is strictly about going out and winning
11:32
Speaker 2: and trying to win a championship rather than development.
11:35
Speaker 4: But across the three or.
11:38
Speaker 2: Four different independent teams I played on throughout my career,
11:40
Speaker 2: there's definitely been differences in the way that that's communicated
11:44
Speaker 2: of where some places they'll, there'll be meetings after a
11:49
Speaker 2: bad game where it's like, I control your job.
11:51
Speaker 4: I can cut you at any time. Like if you walk.
11:54
Speaker 2: Another person, you're gone versus like, places where you can
11:58
Speaker 2: tell that the manager and the pitching coaches truly care
12:02
Speaker 2: about you and want to succeed, want you to succeed.
12:04
Speaker 2: And like, if you're going through a rough stretch, they'll
12:07
Speaker 2: maybe not give you more opportunities than you'd get, but
12:10
Speaker 2: like work through it and try to figure out a
12:12
Speaker 2: way to get you better and get you back on
12:15
Speaker 2: track instead of just, Hey, I can cut you loose
12:18
Speaker 2: at any time. You better figure it out quickly. And
12:22
Speaker 2: then going back to the twins, like you were my
12:25
Speaker 2: coach for, parts of three different seasons. And I always
12:29
Speaker 2: felt like you and Brian, our manager in Fort Myers
12:33
Speaker 2: or Richard or Carlos, the other pitching coaches that I
12:37
Speaker 2: had with the twins, I always felt like all you
12:40
Speaker 2: guys were very open to a, me coming to you
12:44
Speaker 2: with ideas of like, Hey, I saw this grip online
12:46
Speaker 2: for a pitch. What do you think of it? Do
12:48
Speaker 2: you think that would be successful? Or Hey, like my
12:51
Speaker 2: slider has been performing really well. What do you, what
12:54
Speaker 2: if we just keep throwing it more often? Or even
12:56
Speaker 2: after bad outings, like we'd have the post-game reviews and
12:59
Speaker 2: they're honest. It's like, hey, that wasn't good enough, but
13:02
Speaker 2: it's not like you played bad. You're a bad pitcher.
13:07
Speaker 2: It's like, here's the process where we went wrong. What can,
13:10
Speaker 2: it really felt like you guys being like, what can
13:13
Speaker 2: we do to help you not have that happen again?
13:16
Speaker 2: Rather than why did you pitch bad?
13:18
Speaker 4: If that makes sense.
13:20
Speaker 3: Yeah.
13:20
Speaker 1: And I mean, I think that's, When I started learning
13:24
Speaker 1: about coaching and I wanted to become a coach, I
13:26
Speaker 1: read a bunch of books and was talking to coaches
13:29
Speaker 1: that I had had in the past that I thought
13:30
Speaker 1: were good and was seeking advice on how they approach
13:34
Speaker 1: situations and whatnot.
13:36
Speaker 3: And one of the biggest things that I learned.
13:38
Speaker 1: From other coaches is to never forget what it feels
13:42
Speaker 1: like to be a player. And what I mean by
13:44
Speaker 1: that is the longer you go without being a player,
13:47
Speaker 1: you can forget how tough the game is.
13:49
Speaker 3: You can forget.
13:50
Speaker 1: those same struggles that you had as a player, right?
13:52
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't a very good player, especially once I
13:55
Speaker 1: got past college and independent ball, I was fighting for
13:57
Speaker 1: a job every single year or every single day really.
14:01
Speaker 1: And I try to remind myself of like how much
14:03
Speaker 1: work I had to put in just to be an
14:05
Speaker 1: okay baseball player and.
14:06
Speaker 3: How difficult it was.
14:07
Speaker 1: So as frustrating as it can be when you're a
14:10
Speaker 1: coach and it's not clicking for a player and it's
14:12
Speaker 1: just not, they're not having the success that you want
14:13
Speaker 1: them to have as long as they are following a
14:17
Speaker 1: process they're trying to get better they're doing everything they
14:20
Speaker 1: can in their control like how could I be mad
14:22
Speaker 1: at that how could I I guess the only reason
14:24
Speaker 1: I'd be mad it wouldn't be mad it would just
14:26
Speaker 1: be frustration on my own part of like what can
14:29
Speaker 1: I do differently to help this player get better and
14:32
Speaker 1: have this breakthrough so I think like the further away
14:34
Speaker 1: you get from playing and you'll you'll learn this too
14:36
Speaker 1: like you're fresh out of playing like there's certain aspects
14:39
Speaker 1: I can forget that of what it was like to
14:42
Speaker 1: be a player especially when we work with high school
14:43
Speaker 1: kids and I see some of the things, the mistakes
14:46
Speaker 1: that they make over and over again. I'm thinking to myself,
14:48
Speaker 1: how are you not figuring this out yet? These are fundamental,
14:52
Speaker 1: basic things. I don't understand how this isn't clicking yet.
14:54
Speaker 1: Then I have to remind myself, oh, I'm more than
14:57
Speaker 1: twice their age now. I've had hundreds of thousands more
15:00
Speaker 1: reps than they have of seeing this and doing this.
15:02
Speaker 1: I think perspective is always super important. I think coaches
15:07
Speaker 1: that lose that perspective, those are typically the coaches that
15:11
Speaker 1: aren't promoting that safe environment because they're just... They've been
15:15
Speaker 1: too far removed from playing in a lot of cases.
15:18
Speaker 1: There's other reasons it could be, but that's just the
15:20
Speaker 1: first reason that comes to mind is why a coach
15:21
Speaker 1: might do that.
15:23
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think that definitely makes sense.
15:25
Speaker 2: And kind of what you said about you never get
15:29
Speaker 2: mad but sometimes frustrated, that definitely struck a chord because
15:32
Speaker 2: I remember there were a few times where I'd have
15:36
Speaker 2: a rough outing and I'd go in for the post-game
15:39
Speaker 2: review and it felt like you guys– had had the
15:43
Speaker 2: rough outing.
15:43
Speaker 3: Like I could tell how much it hurt.
15:46
Speaker 2: You guys if it had gone bad the night before.
15:48
Speaker 2: Like it, like it just was clear how much you
15:51
Speaker 2: guys cared. And I think that's one of the biggest
15:53
Speaker 2: things that I liked with you guys as coaches. And
15:57
Speaker 2: I think is one of the things that I want
15:59
Speaker 2: to channel the most as a coach is just.
16:01
Speaker 4: Like showing how much it matters.
16:04
Speaker 2: Not in like the sense of like wins and losses
16:06
Speaker 2: obviously matter, but like, this is like playing baseball is
16:12
Speaker 2: a lot of people's dreams and they put so much
16:14
Speaker 2: into it. And if you as a coach can show
16:17
Speaker 2: that like you care about getting them better and getting
16:21
Speaker 2: them to reach that goal, like those were the best
16:23
Speaker 2: coaches I had. And that's kind of what I want
16:25
Speaker 2: to strive for as I get into my coaching career.
16:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think like the faster we can ingrain
16:31
Speaker 1: that type of environment with kids, like when they first
16:32
Speaker 1: start working with us, right in the facility setting, or if,
16:35
Speaker 1: you know, you start coaching for a team and, of
16:38
Speaker 1: some kind, like the faster you can make the player
16:41
Speaker 1: feel safe, the better. Cause when I think back to
16:44
Speaker 1: like high school, college and pro high school, I always
16:48
Speaker 1: felt safe.
16:49
Speaker 3: Like it always, I don't know why. I don't know.
16:51
Speaker 1: I went to a smaller school. It was, you know,
16:54
Speaker 1: not like necessarily a powerhouse. So I was one of
16:56
Speaker 1: the better players. So when you're better, you usually feel
16:59
Speaker 1: a little bit safer about things. Um, but like, I never,
17:02
Speaker 1: I just never felt like I couldn't, pitch like myself,
17:06
Speaker 1: like I'm sure you've felt this before. There's been certain
17:08
Speaker 1: teams I've played for certain situations where I'm like, I
17:12
Speaker 1: am literally like operating at 50% of who I am
17:14
Speaker 1: as a pitcher. Like, I don't even feel like I
17:16
Speaker 1: know how to throw a curveball right now. And it's
17:18
Speaker 1: like just little things like that, that like the coaches
17:20
Speaker 1: and still like, it'd be, I played for a club
17:22
Speaker 1: team at one point in high school.
17:23
Speaker 3: I won't say the team, but the coaches.
17:25
Speaker 1: Were kind of very hostile, like very vocal about negativity.
17:29
Speaker 1: And if you weren't doing things right, I literally could
17:32
Speaker 1: throw for my high school one weekend, throw for the
17:34
Speaker 1: club team the next weekend, and you would think it
17:35
Speaker 1: was two different pitchers. Like, throwing slower, walking people, other
17:39
Speaker 1: team throwing harder and dominating. And I didn't change. It
17:44
Speaker 1: was just the way I felt because of the environment
17:46
Speaker 1: I was in. I literally felt crippled to perform. And
17:49
Speaker 1: that would happen periodically at other levels, or there'd be
17:51
Speaker 1: an adjustment period for me where, like, my first year
17:54
Speaker 1: at George Mason, I did horrible. I was a starter
17:58
Speaker 1: the whole year, but, like, just– struggled. And it wasn't
18:01
Speaker 1: that I didn't feel safe. I actually thought it was
18:02
Speaker 1: a decent environment. Um, but my senior year, it was
18:06
Speaker 1: literally like a flip of a switch from one year
18:08
Speaker 1: to the next. Like my ERA literally went from a
18:11
Speaker 1: six to a two with basically the same amount of innings.
18:14
Speaker 1: Like I didn't, I actually threw slower. I threw slower
18:16
Speaker 1: my senior than my junior year. Uh, but like performance skyrocketed.
18:19
Speaker 1: I think it was just like an extra year of
18:21
Speaker 1: being in that environment.
18:22
Speaker 3: I felt more comfortable, built better relationships with the coaches.
18:26
Speaker 1: Just that whole environment. Like you're exactly right. Like it's
18:28
Speaker 1: critical to everything. So As coaches, we have to be
18:32
Speaker 1: able to expedite that process or figure out how we
18:34
Speaker 1: can expedite that process so kids can feel comfortable to
18:37
Speaker 1: perform at their best. And as we'll start diving into,
18:40
Speaker 1: and you've already alluded to, that freedom to fail, try
18:43
Speaker 1: new things to where if I'm throwing a bullpen, I'm
18:46
Speaker 1: not being critiqued on every single pitch I make to
18:48
Speaker 1: the extent of, oh, that was a horrible pitch. Why
18:51
Speaker 1: are we doing that? We can't do that again. Just
18:53
Speaker 1: throw strikes. All this verbiage that coaches use that just
18:56
Speaker 1: cripple pitchers and frees them. So that's kind of my
18:59
Speaker 1: challenge for us at the facility at Pitching Coach U. And,
19:02
Speaker 1: you know, as you advance in your career is like
19:05
Speaker 1: the faster we can create that environment, we should have
19:08
Speaker 1: a better return on our players performing.
19:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
19:12
Speaker 2: I mean, just thinking back to my own career and
19:15
Speaker 2: you kind of said it, but just like the more
19:17
Speaker 2: you can feel like yourself on the mound, the more
19:20
Speaker 2: that like other distractions go out the window and you
19:23
Speaker 2: can strictly focus on competing and the batter in the
19:26
Speaker 2: box versus like like some teams I played on, it's like,
19:30
Speaker 2: you're throwing a one, every one, one count, you have
19:33
Speaker 2: to throw a fastball. And like, that's not who I
19:37
Speaker 2: am as a pitcher. So there'd be times where I'm like, no, like,
19:41
Speaker 2: that's not the right pitch. I'm going to throw a slider.
19:44
Speaker 2: But then I'm thinking about that. And it's like, I
19:47
Speaker 2: better execute this slider or else I am going to
19:49
Speaker 2: get reamed in the dugout after this inning so like
19:53
Speaker 2: things like that where like it like you said it's
19:56
Speaker 2: like the same stuff but it's not the freedom to
19:58
Speaker 2: go out and compete um so I kind of want
20:01
Speaker 2: to talk about how we transition that to inside the
20:05
Speaker 2: facility at Pitching Coach U. So if you want to
20:07
Speaker 2: go over a couple of things that you think we
20:09
Speaker 2: do that kind of translate to creating that safe environment
20:13
Speaker 2: where it's okay to fail or some things that you
20:16
Speaker 2: want to get better in the facility.
20:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:20
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the first thing, like, I feel
20:21
Speaker 1: like we do a good job of verbalizing it. Like, Hey,
20:24
Speaker 1: we have this bullpen plan for you. It's going to
20:26
Speaker 1: be really hard. Like, I'm just telling you before we start, like,
20:28
Speaker 1: you're not expected to throw 80% strikes right now.
20:31
Speaker 3: You wouldn't even be expected to do that with a baseball, but.
20:33
Speaker 1: Like we're using differential balls or we're doing some sort
20:35
Speaker 1: of athletic throwing command work, specifically the command work. Like
20:39
Speaker 1: this is going to be challenging and it's okay to fail.
20:42
Speaker 1: And my job as a coach is to make that
20:45
Speaker 1: challenge I don't want guys failing so much to where
20:49
Speaker 1: they just lose all confidence. And that doesn't mean it's
20:52
Speaker 1: because of something I said or did.
20:53
Speaker 3: It's just natural. If I throw 20.
20:55
Speaker 1: Pitches and two hit the strike zone, I'm probably not
20:57
Speaker 1: going to feel too good about myself, even if my
20:58
Speaker 1: coach says.
20:59
Speaker 3: It's okay, buddy. You're doing great. Keep going. I think
21:03
Speaker 3: we want to make that clear.
21:04
Speaker 1: That's not what we're saying is we're like you just
21:06
Speaker 1: butter up your players and you don't ever critique them
21:09
Speaker 1: or do anything that challenges them. I think you definitely
21:12
Speaker 1: have to do that. It's just how you do it
21:14
Speaker 1: and when you do it. Um, so our goal, the
21:18
Speaker 1: way I think about it, at least, and what I
21:19
Speaker 1: do want to get better at is adjusting the challenges
21:24
Speaker 1: that we're presenting to the pitchers more appropriately, right? Like
21:26
Speaker 1: every player has a different skill level and I could
21:29
Speaker 1: give the same bullpen plan to two pitchers. One guy,
21:32
Speaker 1: he might be successful 60% of the time with it.
21:35
Speaker 1: The other pitcher might be successful 15% of the time.
21:38
Speaker 1: Obviously the 15% guy isn't quite ready for that difficult
21:42
Speaker 1: of a challenge. So we need to adjust it accordingly
21:44
Speaker 1: for him. So I think it's just like continuing to
21:47
Speaker 1: ingrain in their head, like when we're doing things that
21:51
Speaker 1: this is going to be challenging, that's okay. Leave it
21:53
Speaker 1: to me as a coach to adjust as we go.
21:55
Speaker 1: And I want you just to execute the best you can.
21:57
Speaker 1: And I think we do, like, I almost do feel
21:59
Speaker 1: like in a facility, I don't know why the word
22:02
Speaker 1: butter is coming to mind, but just buttering them up
22:05
Speaker 1: a little bit is probably okay in a facility because
22:07
Speaker 1: I think they get the complete opposite outside of here.
22:10
Speaker 1: So I think there needs to be kind of that
22:11
Speaker 1: balance to where even when I'm saying something to the kid,
22:14
Speaker 1: he might not even believe it because he's just used
22:16
Speaker 1: to his other coach or someone else.
22:18
Speaker 3: Saying something to him. that's negative over and over again.
22:21
Speaker 1: And we almost have to like retrain them and reframe
22:24
Speaker 1: their mindset of how they think about things. And that's
22:26
Speaker 1: what's so hard. I mean, they're only with us for
22:28
Speaker 1: a small percentage of the time. Um, but if we
22:30
Speaker 1: can at least push the needle a little bit in
22:33
Speaker 1: that direction, I think that's helpful, but that's kind of
22:35
Speaker 1: where my mind goes is just adjusting the difficulty appropriately
22:38
Speaker 1: and I'm just ingraining in their head as much as
22:40
Speaker 1: we can, but like, it's okay to fail and you're
22:42
Speaker 1: kind of expected to fail in this environment.
22:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think, I think that's a good point.
22:47
Speaker 2: And when you say expected to fail, like We want
22:50
Speaker 2: the quote unquote failure to not be the devastating failure
22:56
Speaker 2: where you throw a 20 pitch bullpen and not a
22:58
Speaker 2: single one ends up in the strike zone. We want
23:00
Speaker 2: like the quote unquote failed bullpens to be a 20
23:05
Speaker 2: pitch bullpen where maybe only 40% of pitches are executed.
23:09
Speaker 2: I think that's probably a good level where you're appropriately
23:13
Speaker 2: challenging the player and giving them, like getting them out
23:16
Speaker 2: of their comfort zone and in a place where they
23:18
Speaker 2: can grow and develop new skills, but it's also not
23:21
Speaker 2: completely shooting their confidence. And I think I need to
23:25
Speaker 2: do a better job of explaining that before bullpens. Cause
23:29
Speaker 2: I'll usually sit down with guys, like we'll always kind
23:32
Speaker 2: of do a little post bullpen review where talk, talk
23:36
Speaker 2: over what we saw and what we felt and stuff
23:38
Speaker 2: and have a lot of those conversations where like, yes,
23:40
Speaker 2: this was a super hard bullpen. It was going to
23:42
Speaker 2: be challenging, but kind of, priming them for that before
23:46
Speaker 2: the bullpen without setting them up for failure of like, Hey,
23:50
Speaker 2: I'm expecting you to fail this bullpen. Trying to find
23:53
Speaker 2: the right balance of like, Hey, this is going to
23:55
Speaker 2: be hard. It's going to challenge you. I think you're skilled. Like,
23:59
Speaker 2: I believe that you're going to be able to perform well,
24:01
Speaker 2: but don't get discouraged if the first four pitches, like
24:06
Speaker 2: if you start bad. Cause like, we'll see it a
24:08
Speaker 2: lot where kids feeling good in catch play, the first
24:11
Speaker 2: couple of warmups are good and then we'll start the
24:13
Speaker 2: bullpen and and maybe the first two or three pitches
24:16
Speaker 2: that are balls, and all of a sudden the whole
24:18
Speaker 2: body language changes. They start guiding the ball, trying to
24:22
Speaker 2: place it in the strike zone. Velo starts to drop
24:25
Speaker 2: by a couple miles an hour. So rather than just,
24:30
Speaker 2: I guess, priming them so it's like, hey, this is
24:32
Speaker 2: going to be tough if the first couple are bad,
24:34
Speaker 2: so what? We're expecting it to be a little rocky,
24:37
Speaker 2: especially at the start if we're doing a differential bullpen
24:40
Speaker 2: where you're throwing a plus five ball or a minus
24:42
Speaker 2: five that, a kid's not used to like letting them know, Hey,
24:45
Speaker 2: it's going to take a little bit for you to
24:47
Speaker 2: adjust and get used to doing this.
24:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
24:49
Speaker 1: And something I was just thinking about too, like there's
24:51
Speaker 1: some players that they can't even succeed at a high
24:55
Speaker 1: rate with a baseball, right? Like a 40 to 50%
24:58
Speaker 1: success rate with the baseball is even challenging.
25:00
Speaker 3: So I was just.
25:00
Speaker 1: Thinking probably would be beneficial for us to change target
25:04
Speaker 1: sizes for people to like to count it as yes,
25:07
Speaker 1: that's successful. That's not successful with track man. It's a
25:10
Speaker 1: little bit limited because the track man is just going
25:11
Speaker 1: to show the strike zone. But maybe we have a
25:14
Speaker 1: target that is a whole screen. Maybe some kid, he
25:18
Speaker 1: literally needs a whole screen and we say, okay, we're
25:21
Speaker 1: doing differential balls. If you hit the screen in the air,
25:25
Speaker 1: any part of the screen, that counts as a target.
25:27
Speaker 1: And once they're able to show that they can do
25:29
Speaker 1: that at 50 to 60% of the time after a
25:32
Speaker 1: couple sessions, okay, now we're gonna shrink the target a
25:34
Speaker 1: little bit and we'll just keep shrinking and shrinking so
25:37
Speaker 1: we get down to the regular strike zone. I just
25:41
Speaker 1: think for some kids, literally the regular strike zone is
25:44
Speaker 1: just too hard for them. Like they're, and I understand
25:46
Speaker 1: that's what we have to do in a game, but
25:48
Speaker 1: we need to have some sort of progression, right? We
25:50
Speaker 1: can't just say, Oh, let's just keep throwing it there
25:52
Speaker 1: and hope it gets better.
25:53
Speaker 3: And usually it doesn't. Right.
25:54
Speaker 1: So can we change the game? Can we change the
25:56
Speaker 1: environment of what's considered success? And I think the, there's
26:00
Speaker 1: two variables we could change. We could change distance or
26:02
Speaker 1: we could change size of the target. Typically, I would
26:05
Speaker 1: think size of the target would make the most sense,
26:07
Speaker 1: but we could even play with distances as well. Distance
26:10
Speaker 1: just adds another variable, which could be another important piece
26:12
Speaker 1: for the variability training as well. But have you thought
26:15
Speaker 1: at all about that, about how we could make the plan,
26:19
Speaker 1: quote unquote, easier for guys that just have such a
26:21
Speaker 1: low baseline right now to make sure they're succeeding in
26:23
Speaker 1: some capacity?
26:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good idea.
26:28
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things that you were doing
26:32
Speaker 2: with the player last week was instead of a bullpen
26:35
Speaker 2: doing kind of a command game where you're thrown into
26:39
Speaker 2: places that are different than a normal strike zone, like
26:42
Speaker 2: it might be the nine pocket, but it's set up
26:44
Speaker 2: in the corner of the left-handed batter box just to
26:48
Speaker 2: kind of change the eyesights and also just get people
26:52
Speaker 2: out of the same pattern where, because for a lot
26:54
Speaker 2: of this command stuff, it's mental. And the more I
27:00
Speaker 2: think that you can create a sense of like, Hey,
27:04
Speaker 2: this isn't, I'm not just doing the same thing over
27:07
Speaker 2: and over and expecting different results. It's like, yes, I'm
27:10
Speaker 2: throwing to the target, but I'm doing it in a
27:11
Speaker 2: way that I've never done before. Cause no one's ever
27:13
Speaker 2: tried to say, rip a slider in the same handed
27:17
Speaker 2: batter's box. Like no one's ever, or no one's ever
27:20
Speaker 2: tried to throw a pitch in the back left-hand corner
27:25
Speaker 2: of a batter's box on, on, off the mound. Um,
27:27
Speaker 2: so just like, building the confidence of, hey, I'm able
27:30
Speaker 2: to do this and this is harder than what I'm
27:33
Speaker 2: used to.
27:33
Speaker 4: I think that's useful.
27:34
Speaker 2: And also just getting them out of the pattern of
27:37
Speaker 2: going through the same kind of bullpen where I'm going
27:39
Speaker 2: out of my delivery, I'm throwing to the same nine
27:41
Speaker 2: pocket or the same target.
27:42
Speaker 4: And that makes it.
27:44
Speaker 2: Really hard to get out of the same kind of
27:46
Speaker 2: ingrained patterns that you've built and train something new.
27:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of gets.
27:51
Speaker 1: boring i guess too like just to do the same
27:53
Speaker 1: thing over and over again it's like to get a
27:55
Speaker 1: new stimulate stimulus and a new adaptation like you kind
27:57
Speaker 1: of have to change something and there's different ways you
28:01
Speaker 1: can go about that but i think literally just from
28:03
Speaker 1: the thought process of keeping it fresh and engaging for
28:06
Speaker 1: a young player like a high school kid specifically changing
28:09
Speaker 1: the task changing what we're trying to accomplish can can
28:12
Speaker 1: definitely promote that and we've done this as well which
28:15
Speaker 1: i my arm can't hold up too much anymore for this,
28:18
Speaker 1: but doing this stuff with them, right?
28:21
Speaker 3: Like doing challenges with.
28:22
Speaker 1: The player to where we're going throw for throw to
28:24
Speaker 1: different targets or different arm slots. Like I've played pig
28:27
Speaker 1: before where you call your shot of what you're going
28:28
Speaker 1: to do and what the target is. And you essentially
28:31
Speaker 1: just play pig or horse for it. And like now
28:33
Speaker 1: we're promoting competition. They're getting more engaged because their coach
28:36
Speaker 1: is doing it with them. There's all these different, ways
28:39
Speaker 1: that you could go about this. But that's one way
28:42
Speaker 1: that I've always loved. I've always been a coach that
28:44
Speaker 1: likes to throw as, as you know, I mean, you're
28:45
Speaker 1: with the twins. I would throw with you guys all
28:47
Speaker 1: the time. That's just how I learned the best is
28:49
Speaker 1: to try to do it myself. I got to take
28:53
Speaker 1: better care of my arm though, because my arm's starting
28:54
Speaker 1: to fall off. But, but yeah, I think that that's
28:57
Speaker 1: a super valuable way for coaches to get better.
28:59
Speaker 3: So start doing some stuff with their players.
29:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.
29:03
Speaker 2: And then, like you said, making it fun and reminding
29:06
Speaker 2: them that it is a game because it is, So
29:09
Speaker 2: it can be really frustrating if you're throwing a bullpen.
29:12
Speaker 2: You just forget that baseball is supposed to be fun,
29:16
Speaker 2: and you end up in the Superdome. But if you're
29:19
Speaker 2: competing with a coach and, like, hey, I'm trying to
29:21
Speaker 2: throw this off the top of the nine pocket or
29:23
Speaker 2: I'm trying to throw this through the hula hoop that
29:28
Speaker 2: we sometimes hang up on the screen behind you.
29:30
Speaker 4: Right back there.
29:32
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly.
29:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. makes it a lot more fun and kind of
29:36
Speaker 2: takes the focus out of the internal and into the external.
29:40
Speaker 2: which is always kind of what you want to be
29:42
Speaker 2: able to execute better is the shifting the focus to
29:45
Speaker 2: something external.
29:47
Speaker 3: Yep. I love it.
29:48
Speaker 1: Well, this was a little bit of a quicker episode
29:50
Speaker 1: for us, but I think there's some key takeaways. And
29:52
Speaker 1: I always think as we're talking through these things, we're
29:55
Speaker 1: coaching ourselves while we're doing this. And hopefully some other
29:57
Speaker 1: coaches get some value out of this or players if
30:00
Speaker 1: you're listening. But I think the biggest takeaway that we
30:03
Speaker 1: talked about from a coaching standpoint is can we create
30:06
Speaker 1: that safe environment where players feel comfortable to be themselves,
30:09
Speaker 1: to try new things, to come to you with new ideas, right?
30:12
Speaker 1: We didn't really talk about that, but you mentioned that,
30:15
Speaker 1: that you would do with us with the twins is like,
30:16
Speaker 1: if you have an idea or something you've, you've been
30:19
Speaker 1: thinking about that you think could work for you, like
30:20
Speaker 1: a player should feel safe and comfortable asking a coach
30:24
Speaker 1: if he can try something, even if it's different from
30:26
Speaker 1: the plan that the coach created. Like, I think we
30:28
Speaker 1: have done a good job of that. Cause I've seen
30:29
Speaker 1: some players do that with us in here. Um, so
30:32
Speaker 1: maybe our older players that have ideas and want to
30:34
Speaker 1: try new things, like if it makes sense, like we're
30:36
Speaker 1: not going to say no at the end of the day,
30:38
Speaker 1: like it's, it's your career. Like I can't stop you
30:40
Speaker 1: from trying a new grip or doing something different out
30:43
Speaker 1: of here. So, um, yeah, I think that's a big
30:46
Speaker 1: thing is just like, how quickly can we expedite that,
30:49
Speaker 1: that process to get players to feel safe here. And
30:51
Speaker 1: then for us as coaches to to continue problem solving,
30:54
Speaker 1: to create the environment that we want to get the
30:56
Speaker 1: most successful changes for players.
30:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
31:01
Speaker 3: Sweet. All right. We'll see you guys next week.