Latest / The Platform: a Michigan High School Powerlifting Association Podcast / Coach Ron Roberts: Form First, Failure, and Building Champions | The Platform Ep. 23
Transcript
- Chris Whittaker: Ladies and gentlemen, the bar is loaded for another episode of the platform where the stories weigh a ton. I'm your cohost, as always, Chris Whitaker, Michigan High School Powerlifting Association board member, strength and conditioning coach and powerlifting coach at Dexter High School in Dexter, Michigan. And I'm here with my cohost as always. He is our executive director of the MHS PLA coach, Chris Gillum. Coach, good to see you again. Chris Gilliam: Thanks for having me. Always fun. Looking forward to this episode. Chris Whittaker: And we have our guest today. This gentleman needs no introduction across the Michigan High School Powerlifting Association meet. You always know when his kids are performing well because his beard will be an odd color, pink, purple, blue. You never know what it is, right? This man has coached national caliber lifters, state champions. and been doing it for a long time. His name, Coach Ron Roberts of Goodrich High School. Coach, welcome to the pod. Ron Roberts: Thank you. Chris Whittaker: And we, have coach Roberts here and coach Roberts is a good time, right? Like we have fun chatting it up, ⁓ talking to meets, talking on our, our board meeting. So I'm excited to meet with all of the board members, ⁓ on, on the show, but, ⁓ I really, I enjoy talking with Ron and we're going to have, we're going to have fun here. So I got the first question, Ron, ⁓ give us some background on yourself. ⁓ first, what's your occupation? What do you do for a living? Ron Roberts: Hmm. I'm an industrial electrician. I've been one for 32 years. I work in a auto parts plant and I mainly ⁓ wire machines, drop power, run communication, and then sometimes debug machines and a little bit of logic, ⁓ PLC controlled stuff. But I've been an electrician for 32 years, but industrial my whole career. Chris Whittaker: That's awesome. It's crazy. Like the, the different jobs that people do day to day and then come into the sport. Right. Like we're not, not everybody that coaches in our association is a ⁓ high school teacher, right. Or a phys ed teacher. ⁓ What are your hobbies or interests besides powerlifting? Ron Roberts: Yeah. Man, I used to have a lot of hobbies. I spend so much time with power lifting now, but I go to concerts, I hunt, not as much as I used to because power lifting takes up a lot of time. I'm also a foodie, travel to state, going to the best restaurants that I can get to. But I don't know, I don't have any free time my lifters don't know about, so. Chris Whittaker: The kids keep you busy. And last one in this first part. ⁓ What are your relationships status? You're wife, kids, significant other. Ron Roberts: Yeah. I currently have a girlfriend. ⁓ Ask me in a couple of weeks. Chris Whittaker: No, any kids. Ron Roberts: I got two daughters, 23 and 27. They both power lifted. The oldest daughter Veronica is the reason why I'm a coach. I was a wrestling referee and I coached youth wrestling. somebody's because I had spent so long refereeing and seeing matches right up front and close. A lot of my friends wanted me to coach their kids. So I stepped away from. refereeing so I could coach a couple of kids. And then my daughter, my oldest daughter come home one day and said that she had went to powerlifting meeting and they were told that there would no longer be girls powerlifting because there wasn't a coach for girls powerlifting. And so I went up to complain to the athletic director and two days later I was the coach of the Goodrich girls powerlifting team. Chris Whittaker: But that's another thing that we see a lot of in our association where like ⁓ a coach gets involved. mean, Chris coached his girls, right? The coach gets involved in our sport because their kid wants to do it and the school doesn't have an established program yet. Ron Roberts: Got it. Yeah, ⁓ Goodrich had a long established program. mean, ⁓ Goodrich is a founding member of what became the, ⁓ H S P P L A. ⁓ Bruce Edwards is a powerlifting legend. He's had three world records and, ⁓ he was at the beginning, like one of the first three coaches to get involved and, ⁓ ⁓ he had gotten out of it to, ⁓ pursue his son's athletic career and, and, ⁓ the, the former Goodrich lifter who had taken it over, took it over for like a year or two and then moved down with his life and, and, ⁓ a different job and couldn't do it anymore. So Bruce came back and he wanted to focus on the football players and, ⁓ which made sense. And ⁓ but I mean, we had kids, girls on the team that had been to states the year before. We had several girls that were interested. And I got to be honest, I only plan on doing this for three years. Chris Chris knows I had been threatening to quit this sport for nine of the 12 years I've been coaching it. And it is until the last two or three, I just admitted to myself that I wasn't going nowhere. Chris Whittaker: You Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Same story, different year. I know what you mean. Ron Roberts: Yeah. I got to say this last two years is the first time I knew I wasn't quitting, right? You know, I'm always like, when we start working out in June, ⁓ I'm always geeked and by October, you know, I'm ready for the season to start and by March, I'm like, I'm never doing this again. I'm done. And then we go to nationals and we bring home a national title or a bunch of places or the last two years we've been qualifying people for worlds. Chris Gilliam: Thank Ron Roberts: And then I'm re-energized and I was like, man, I can't go anywhere. I got a national champ or a world champion in mix, you know? And ⁓ it's the kids, man. There's always some kid you can't say goodbye to. Chris Gilliam: For sure. For sure. Well, I mean, you know, the question I was going to ask was what drew you to the sport? Obviously your daughter and you had to put up or shut up, right? You know, you complain about the job and it's like, well, it's yours if you want it. I think that's pretty awesome. Ron Roberts: Yeah, yeah. They were supposed to post it and I believe they did. And two days later they said no one's interested, it's yours. And so if I said no, there was no girl's powerlifting. yeah, I'm a similar dad to Chris. My daughter has always come first. And ⁓ so I wasn't going anywhere until they were done. Chris Gilliam: No one wanted it. ⁓ Yeah, that wasn't happening. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I remember one of those first conversations. I think this is it. This is my last year. And I'm just like, I remember the one me I'm like, well, isn't that girl that just took first, like a sophomore? And you're like, yeah. I'm like, you're not going anywhere. And then it's like their siblings come up after a while too. And then you just keep, keep doing it. No, I think it's a, it's awesome. ⁓ you know, getting to know you over the years. Ron's been. Ron Roberts: Yep. I remember the conversation. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: Absolute joy. It's you're all business during the meet, but you like to have conversations. ⁓ it's, ⁓ something that I enjoy and you you, you've as a, as a coach, what do you think is the areas that you've learned the most since you've been coaching? said it's 12 years. So, ⁓ compare the last three to your first three, guess. Ron Roberts: Well, you know, when I started, you know, I knew I had to get the kids strong and I was really concerned about how much they lifted. And ⁓ the first two years of a coach, I had the most influence from Bruce Edwards and he really tried to teach me that it's about the form, right? And make sure if the form's not good, it doesn't matter how much they lifted. I remember showing him some videos early on where a kid lifted an amazing amount of weight and he goes, yeah, but look at the form. And so I started, I went in and got a gym membership in a gym that had a lot of old school power lifters. And ⁓ I started lifting myself and putting myself around people that I could tell had been in the sport and knew a lot about the sport. And so I could try to learn and you know, Starting out, had a real simple, I think we were using 531, the system. And I loved it. I loved it for about nine months. And I was like, okay, I've already hit the ceiling in this. And so constantly looking for the next thing to grow my program. then in the mid, like during COVID, I caught a podcast. Chris Gilliam: One more. Ron Roberts: And I got some, they went through like the four ⁓ most used powerlifting programs. And so I started researching those and that's when I first found Westside. And I tell you, at that point in my career, Westside was so far over my head. I backed off a little bit, you know, because the worst thing you can do as a powerlifting coach is coach stuff you don't understand, right? because you're really risking hurting people or wasting people's time. And so I picked a simple percentage based, ⁓ percentage based system. And then I constantly add to it, constantly subtract from it. ⁓ I'm a big auxiliary auxiliary exercise guy. So, ⁓ especially during the summer and the fall, we hit the auxiliaries really hard till we start concentrating on big lifts. But, ⁓ And now ⁓ I find myself that form is all I think about, right? Like perfecting the little things. I got a lifter right now. ⁓ One of the few male lifters I coach and ⁓ he will do whatever you tell him, but you have to be really specific about your instructions. And then you have to make sure they they're there every month. that they don't slip out of the rotation. And ⁓ you know, when I first started, I would allow a kid to finish a lift no matter what. And now if I got a young lifter and they're on a deadlift and their shoulders come in, I'll just say down and push them over and let them live to fight another day. And that's the experience over the years, knowing that one big lift could be the end of their career if you don't let them, if you don't make sure they're doing it right. Chris Gilliam: Good. That's some good advice too. Yeah. Thank you. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: I mean, absolutely. I think we see it a lot at meets with some of our more inexperienced kids and, and, know, inexperienced coaches. And, ⁓ I know we've all talked about it as an association, maybe through things like this podcast, we can help to, ⁓ educate people on what it should look like and, and what is safe practices and to make it safer for all these kids. Cause you know, it's a great thing for kids. Ron Roberts: too much. Chris Whittaker: Unless they get pushed and get hurt and now they have to deal with that injury for the rest of their life. Ron Roberts: Yeah, for sure. Chris Whittaker: ⁓ so you said you've been involved in the sport for about 12, 13 years or so. ⁓ what, ⁓ your experience within the association, how long were you in before you became a board member? ⁓ how did that, how did that go about? Ron Roberts: Yeah, I'm going out there team. Well, my first season was the 2014-2015 season. And I think I met Chris at the first meet I ever took kids to when Birch Run had that Christmas meet that wasn't original yet at that time. And I remember looking back, Chris helped me out a lot. But looking back, I probably understand now how annoying I was because I had like a million questions. Chris Gilliam: Hello, Damien. Ron Roberts: And I didn't understand half his answers. And I was like, man, these board members don't want to talk to anybody. ⁓ and I realized, okay, okay. You know, 12 years later, I was like, okay, I understand. ⁓ you know, thinking it was hard to get information, but, and then, ⁓ I think I became a board member in 2019. It took me three tries. I think, I think I tried to get in three times and, Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. Ron Roberts: I understand why I didn't get in the first two times now because I wasn't ready. And then I got in in 2019 and it was right before ⁓ Sheila from Cross Lex got out. And we were changing a lot of rules and heading full speed into COVID without knowing we were heading full speed into COVID and going through all that stuff. the board members changing and the sport changing. And so over the 12 years, feel like I've seen so much, because it was still pretty obscure, I think, in 2014, 2015, much different than it is today, with all these colleges coming and recruiting our kids and people. texting and messaging me all the time just asking how do I get in? Chris Gilliam: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, the, remember Ron asking a lot of questions and I would try my best to do so the, but I don't think Ron realized at the time when you're the meat director, you're so busy running a meat. Although you want to answer their questions, you're putting out a hundred fires. You know, when he started talking, I'm sitting there flashing back and I'm like, yeah, I can see where. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: Mm-hmm. Ron Roberts: Yeah, yeah, Chris Gilliam: You know, I might've sounded short and abrupt with him a few times, but you know, when they're asking you a question and you're on your way to putting out a fire, you know, and stuff like that. But, well, Ron always, always was searching and looking for ⁓ answers and explanations. And I don't know. I've, I've always been, ⁓ you know, a guy that will talk to anybody, but man, when you're running a meet, it sure is hard. Ron Roberts: Oh, I know now, you know, putting out my own fires at meets, even though I don't I've only ran one meet in our at four hour board in my career. You know, when you go there and everybody knows who you are and they come running up and they start asking questions and being an old school trades tradesman, I can be kind of short myself. But I try to remember the guy I was in 2014 that didn't know anything. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Ron Roberts: I said, okay. Try to remember and try to answer the questions like I would have wanted them be answered. I don't always succeed, but I tried. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: Yeah, we've all been in your shoes before Ron, everybody that first starts out in the same boat. You know, maybe some people have ⁓ a few more resources available to them because they have a, maybe a larger network of people that they know that's already in the sport. You know, mean, the one good thing, as you mentioned, had Bruce Edwards, was a. You know, he still holds a bunch of records, ⁓ you know, in the USA PL and. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Chris Gilliam: I got to know Bruce through football, I also watching him work out at Flint barbell for a few years when I would take my daughter there to train with those guys for bench press. Cause they were like the bench press masters, man. Those guys had a dialed in. So those guys, you know, they lifted equipped, they use the bunch shirts and stuff, but everything they know. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Especially Bruce. Chris Gilliam: You apply it. Like I learned so much about the bench press from Bruce Edwards and all the guys at Flynn Barbell. I mean, they were all really good. know, Marvin Coleman was a huge help. ⁓ also those are guys we might have to get on here some point to what occurred because. I mean, they used to run the USA PL in the state, you know, ⁓ for a period of years. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Chris Whittaker: I'm writing the names down as you say Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: And they owned Flint Barbell. I mean, you talk about, you go there on a Sunday. That was their heavy bunch a day. Boy, did you see a lot of iron and chalk flying around at Flint Barbell on a Sunday morning? It was, it was intense. was interesting. I learned a lot. Those guys were amazing. Ron Roberts: Well, I know when I was starting out, had early on, had a really good lifter. You'll remember Abby Joseph and she was really good at bench. And, ⁓ at that time, ⁓ she was, I had taken her as far as I could take her. And I brought, ⁓ I put together about three kids that I thought were gonna, ⁓ go to States. Chris Gilliam: Hmm. Ron Roberts: And I had Bruce come in and do a special Ben session. And I think he worked with him for three practices and changed their form, changed their setup. And then I would send them videos and ask, hey, what's going wrong here? And so it's like resources like Bruce and other people that have been in this a long time. And all of my knowledge is like a hodgepodge of stuff that I learned from other people, you know. Chris Gilliam: Right. Yeah, they were really good. Scientifically would occur with like how to set up the emphasis on squeezing your shoulder blades. ⁓ the way you grip the bar, like, you know, cause you see so many people like unwrap the bar and their, their wrists are already like button folded to where they're already going to lose 10 pounds out there bunch, you know? And so all these little details, ⁓ getting an arch in your back, using leg drive, you know, all kinds of like little things that make the separate people. They're, they're phenomenal at it. So. Ron Roberts: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Chris Whittaker: Well, we bounced around there and covered a bunch of them, a bunch of the things that we want to ask. I this one is you. I think we're at question Chris Gilliam: Besides, sorry, Chris. Yeah. Besides Bruce, who were some other mentors? Ron Roberts: Let me think about this for a second. ⁓ We have a guy ⁓ from Goodrich that you guys might have heard of, ⁓ Joe Janica. He has a podcast now, ⁓ Gym Life. And ⁓ I reached out to him because he was a Goodrich guy. And even though I didn't go to school at Goodrich, ⁓ I'd been around good Richard a while and I reached out to him and we talked about some stuff and, ⁓ busy dude, but, ⁓ Joe, Joe would come into practice and, know, being a small prep, ⁓ program coach, I almost never get to watch a squat from the front of the side. Cause I'm always spotting my best lifters insist on me being the spotter. So he would come in and say, Hey, you know, your lifters pigeon toed. And I'm like, well, I don't think I've ever seen her toes during a lift, you know. And then he go, have you tried this? ⁓ Why does your wide stand lifter put her toes out because they're not using all their feet on a wide stance lifter? Why don't they point their toes straight? And I was like, because I told him to point them out. And he would teach me this little tiny things. And then I had a guy ⁓ that worked at the Anytime Fitness in ⁓ Davidson, Michigan, ⁓ trying to remember his name. I called him Big Something. I was working third shift at the time, so I worked out at like eight in the morning. And he would be in there doing good mornings with 400 pounds, right? And I'm like, Chris Gilliam: you Ron Roberts: So I gravitated to that dude like immediately, know, he would, he would bet row five plates, right? And I was like, this is the dude I need to be around, right? And I wish I could remember his name and it was a nickname at that, but I would go in every morning and ⁓ I asked him why he weight lifted and his answer was to stay out of jail. And ⁓ Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Ron Roberts: So I always cruised by and if he looked at me, I'd ask questions if he didn't, I'd just keep on moving, you know, because he was a really old school dude. But I learned so many little things from that dude. So many little things just that tweaks on lifters and I'd show him videos and he wouldn't be as friendly as Bruce Edwards was when he would told me the forms. Chris Gilliam: Yep. Ron Roberts: wasn't as good as it should be. He'd be very direct and colorful about what I needed to do ⁓ with my program and sometimes my life, depending on what kind of mood he was in, you know. But, and I've run into a lot of those guys over the years when I got, when I followed Chris into the USAPL and ⁓ that's what I did. Chris Whittaker: You Chris Gilliam: you Ron Roberts: He took Morgan, his daughter, to the USAPL and she did great. And I had a great lifter, so I was like, I'm going to follow his lead and go into the USAPL. I run into another whole host of characters ⁓ that had a lot of advice. And the things I learned that were the most important were about form, right? Because it doesn't matter what system you have or whether you're percentage based or whether you're doing speed days or whatever, none of that matters. The form isn't good. And ⁓ it's what I like most about being a board member is judging state records and holding people to ⁓ make sure that their record is an actual record, know, concentrating on form. you know, if you're around the USAPL long enough, depth becomes an ⁓ obsession, you know. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Ron Roberts: It's more important to you that like trying to explain this to people in my life that asked me what I do. I go, you realize you're entering a two hour conversation just by asking me this question. And I was like, I can't explain depth or weightlifting in five minutes. I'm just not capable. Chris Whittaker: Ha ha. Chris Gilliam: Fair enough. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: Well, you answered our next one is what do you like most about being on the board of directors? Ron Roberts: Yeah, I tell you, I try as hard as I can to ⁓ answer people's questions and be patient when they come up. I've met a lot of great coaches since I've been a director and ⁓ you know, they ⁓ people come up and they got a lot of questions and I'll say, hey, get me in 30 minutes. Give me in 30 minutes. Let the first lift happen. Let us get going and I'll answer your question. But if it's not like life or death, it's gonna ruin your lifter's day. Let's get into the meat. I try to be patient. So I'll answer your question. Just let's get going, right? Chris Gilliam: . Yeah. For those listening and those that are viewing this, Ron's most available during the boys portion of a meet. Cause he typically only has one or two boys, but good luck getting his attention during the girls meet because he is locked in because if he's not, then he won't expect it from his kids and his girl lifters are locked in. So he's locked in and yeah. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: So that's the best time to get around in between me. It's or during the boys. Ron Roberts: For sure. Chris Whittaker: Leave Ron alone during the girls. So how, I don't think we've talked about this one yet. Maybe we have. ⁓ How has the association changed since you started in it? Chris Gilliam: Yeah. ⁓ Ron Roberts: Well, let me think about this for a second. we started, the girls didn't have a JV when I started. I don't think that hit till it was at 2018, the JV meet hit for the girls. 2017, 2017, the boys had JV, but the girls didn't. Chris Gilliam: 2017. Ron Roberts: So we went through that and at that time, the first couple, I think, states that I was involved in, the girls lifted on one day and the boys lifted on another day. ⁓ then eventually, we do Friday night. I think my first two states were Friday night. And ⁓ then we combined the JVs and then ⁓ combined the varsities. Chris Gilliam: Friday night. Ron Roberts: to separate days and I felt like the first probably, probably nine years of my career was so focused on women lifters because it was the only ones I was coaching. ⁓ Occasionally, Bruce would pass a guy down to me that wanted to lift and I would register him, but I would only work out with him for maybe one or two practices to get a sense. still Bruce's lifter coming from the football team. But for the most part, I focused on girls. And so that was my focus. I know you remember my early days as a board member. I really only chimed in on things that involved the girls. Right. I was like, you know, and then I've slowly taken on I generally coach boys that don't play football. Right. And Chris Gilliam: Thank Ron Roberts: Unless Bruce hands them down to me and asks me to coach him, ⁓ I focus on the boys. Seems like I get a lot of kids from the band, right? I'll drop this secret right now. And I told myself I'd never drop it, but the best place to recruit power lifters is from the band. Because we've got the only sport with no running involved. And most of these kids have been holding their arms like this for three or four years. Chris Whittaker: You Ron Roberts: And they got amazing rear delts and a strong lower back. And so you guys chase all the soccer players and softball players you want because they're all on travel teams and they'll never make a meet, right? But you go get a band kid and show them a little attention and you'll blow your program up, I guarantee it. Yeah. Well, I waited 12, I waited like nine years to drop that, so. Chris Gilliam: I love it. That's that is a nugget right there. That's priceless. Yeah, no, that's good. You're secure in your position. ⁓ you know, so it's all right to drop that. No, think that's awesome. I mean, and that's what makes our sport greater. They come in all shapes and sizes and then all different types of hobbies and interests and, know, lifting doesn't take athleticism. just takes dedication and hard work. know what I mean? So, and anybody can have that. So I think that's awesome. Ron Roberts: Yeah, yeah. Hard work. Chris Gilliam: ⁓ yeah, I mean, I think looking back, Ron, even when we first started the girls, JV, like the state meat was one weekend basically for a while. Like, so even when we had the four divisions, finally, the JVs would lift Friday night and the varsities would live Saturday, which those were long weekends. Whitaker, you were never a part of that stuff, but think about it. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Whittaker: The magic. Chris Gilliam: You are lifting the JV Friday night. like typically that meat didn't start till like five or six. You're not getting out of there until, you know, cause this was before cap sizes too. So sometimes you weren't getting out of there until after midnight. And then you're coming back the next morning. mean, I think the last meat run, the last meat run like that, that I remember. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yep. Chris Whittaker: 9 a.m. ⁓ Chris Gilliam: would have been 2019 at Ionia. Ron Roberts: Yep, I was I was gonna say that. Yeah. ⁓ Chris Gilliam: You know, and that was a Saturday, Sunday because they had a conflict with Friday. Ron Roberts: Yeah, and if you remember. I don't think I was a board member yet. If you I think. Yeah, right after that, but if you remember. For those people coaching ⁓ boys sports. Or the men's division ⁓ that wasn't a fun weekend, right? I think it drove a few coaches right out of the sport that experience. Chris Gilliam: No, you came on right after that. Yeah, was, it's rough. mean, the, the state meets were always really grueling, tiring, and then, you know, to make the decision to separate the JV and varsity and give them their own different weekend. I think help the sport continue to grow to be quite honest, because, know, just think about how much work it is for the host school to get all the volunteers to help. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: for one day, you were asking them to do it for two days in a row. Like, like that's why nobody wanted to host the state meet, but once every four years, maybe because there's too much work, man. That's a lot. Yeah. But this, so that's how much the sports changed since you've been, you know, coaching and been on the board. So that's awesome. Ron Roberts: And... Yeah. Chris Whittaker: No chance. Ron Roberts: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: And sometimes I forget about some of those little things, so I start thinking about it myself. Ron Roberts: I remember when they added JV for the girls and... ⁓ My kids were upset about it at first, not getting to lift with a varsity. again, back then I went to Bruce and asked him what his thoughts on it was. ⁓ he goes, this is a tool to grow your sport. They get to go to their own state championship. They get to ⁓ lift against kids at their level. And so I remember- I think the 2019 season, pushed every seventh or 10th grader I had down into the JV to try to ⁓ win a place high or win a state championship. And on paper, I thought I could win it. But two of my kids, I was early enough ⁓ into my coaching career that I didn't start my first parent meeting with don't schedule any vacations in March, right? And ⁓ I had Chris Gilliam: Mm. Ron Roberts: two of my best lifter, a first place lifter and a second place lifter on vacation instead of lifting. And we took fifth at that one. And I think we would have took third or second or third if they would have come there and did just okay. So that's my first nugget that I dropped to the parents. I was like, if you're not gonna be here in March, why don't you guys go pick another event? Chris Gilliam: Right. Yeah, that would have been a 2017 at CrossLux, right? Ron Roberts: Um, that was the first one the next year. Uh, so yeah, the first one was 2017. The next year's 2018 was the one I, uh, uh, now that I think about it that we had a good chance to win it. Chris Gilliam: That saved me. Okay. That was that. That was that Lake Orion. Ron Roberts: Yeah, that was the biggest team I ever had, 26 female lifters. And I've never recruited like that ever since. Chris Gilliam: No. Yeah. I remember you guys, you guys had a really good team. I mean, you, you, you still have a good team. It's just, you're not the numbers, but your, your lifters are really good at what they do. So you have very quality lifters, as far as. You know, some of the things you've talked about, like if you were to emphasize one thing that to a new coach, just starting. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Chris Gilliam: What would be some advice you'd give them to like focus on? Ron Roberts: Well, people are always asking me to ⁓ do a workout plan for them or ⁓ how can I help my lifter and I'm tell them I'm like, well, I'm going to give you something and you show me what you do with it I'm not going to write a plan out to have you quit in two weeks and disappear. I'll put as much energy into this as you do. But the things I focus on where I see kids get hurt and I watch kids lift as I was like, especially with female lifters that come a lot of them come in if they have if they're not athletic and they're not into sports they come in with no rear delts they come in with no lower back and so I'm really big on those exercises and I'll lay out a half a dozen exercises I think that supports that because if you're telling some kid to pull 250 300 pounds and they got underdeveloped shoulders Right. They might have the leg strength for it, but what is the rest of their body look like? And so that's one I've been on for a long time. And then in 20. I want to say 2019, 2020. think maybe 2020 I got my first West Side style reverse hyper machine. And I went from having one lifter who was Willow Tetmire. She was a three time varsity champ and one time JV champ. And she could have been a four time varsity champ, but I pushed her down to JV that year to try to win that state title. Chris Gilliam: the ⁓ Ron Roberts: I went from having one lift through this squad at 300 pounds to having six lifts through the squad at 300 pounds in one season by adding that one exercise. And we at Goodrich do that exercise twice a week. And I do it as an auxiliary and I coach it a little different than I see on the videos. I have my kids go up fast and down slow and it seems to work really good for For my team. I know when I say reverse hyper sometimes people are thinking a Roman bench. And. And it's enough to where we actually ordered a reverse hyper and I got a Roman bench and we had that we had to get another machine because the person I was ordering it from didn't understand what I was asking for. But the. Chris Gilliam: ⁓ yeah, they sent you like a GHD, a glued ham developer. Nah, yeah, that's mixed up with quite a bit. Ron Roberts: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, great machine, but I recommend it. Every coach that asked me if I could be don't have an always say a West Side Barbell style reverse hyper the machine that he kept secret for all them years. Chris Gilliam: Okay. You hear that coaches that's coach Robert's advice. Invest in a reverse hyper machine to develop the hamstrings and lower back strength of your lifters and see their squat squats skyrocket. Ron Roberts: Facts. Facts. Chris Whittaker: Yeah, yeah, it's almost like there's something to that, know, Louis Simmons West Side stuff. ⁓ You know, just further educating people, right? Here's the man himself right here. Let's look at a few reverse hypers, shall we gentlemen? Chris Gilliam: Mm-mm. Chris Whittaker: I'm gonna mute him. I'm gonna mute him for copyright purposes. But look at just how Ron's talking about here. pushing away, down under control, stopping it at halfway. Like that is it. And he's talking in the video about how not only is it going to fire the glutes and hamstrings, which Ron's talking about the benefit there, but also the traction of the low back. We beat up our kids. Ron Roberts: Absolutely. Chris Whittaker: from just having to take the load of the squat and the deadlift over and over again. But I'm glad you brought it up coach, so I could talk about Reverse Hyper too. ⁓ We have four of them, we're about to go up to nine of them in our room when we build the new one and we use it every day. Every lower session, the Reverse Hyper is programmed just like you. Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's a huge thing. ⁓ you know, we can get into this more detailed in another episode, but like the reason he created it was because it a broken back. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: Right. Chris Gilliam: You know, yeah. And so, but he still wanted to train and he did that in place of deadlifting until he was healthy enough to start deadlifting again. ⁓ just a genius to Technically. mean, that's the only way to put it. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: This is the autobiography of the Iron Samurai where he talks about that experience and they're worth checking out. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. I mean, talking about, you know, West side, mean, some, I've had the privilege of meeting some different guys, ⁓ associated with their in person and, know, maybe another episode I'll talk and about those guys that they made a big impact and influence on me when I wasn't new to the sport, but I was trying to get better at the sport, you know? And so when you have talented kids, you got to find that little thing that's Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: can help them separate from the others. And so that's where you start going to experts. Yeah, that's what I did, you know? So you learn from them. So yeah, it's awesome. The next question is yours, coach. Ron Roberts: Absolutely. Chris Whittaker: ⁓ So Ron is powerlifting considered a varsity sport at Goodrich? Ron Roberts: We're a club sport. ⁓ Our athletes do earn letters and pens, right? But we're a club sport. We pay a little less ⁓ for the pay for play than the true varsity sports do. But ⁓ I'll tell you, I get a lot of support in Goodrich and I get a lot of support in the school. ⁓ I've developed a relationship with the local media, newspapers and stuff. Mike lifters are in, are in the papers more than Donald Trump these days. I push, I, everyone's like, how do you get the, ⁓ how do you get into the paper so much? I said, my kids do great things. And I tell the newspapers, right? You know, I don't expect them to come to my door and beg to do a story. But if so, the system wall town newspaper, but there's a paper in Ortonville, Michigan that covers good rich sports. Chris Gilliam: you Ron Roberts: And I got the relationship now that he'll text me every other weekend and said, what happened? Without even knowing if any of that hurt. I know you have a meeting in January. What happened at your qualifier? I know States is coming up. Chris Gilliam: Right. Yeah, they have to fill their pages. Ron Roberts: But ⁓ I get so much support with fundraising events. Because I don't have a big program. With our football team being separate from powerlifting, I don't have their fundraising machine to count on. But Goodrich always seems to come through for me somewhere or another and come through for my lifters. And I think it's because I make sure we're in the newspaper. I mean, a couple of years ago, one opportunity led me to another opportunity and the photographer for a Flint newspaper that did a story on us got a job at the Detroit News. That was a year that Evelyn Edinburgh won the state national title. And I get a picture from my uncle on the other side of the state and there I am on the front page of the Detroit News above the fold. between tariffs and Donald Trump, right? And I was like, how did that happen? How did I end up next to Donald Trump on the front page of a major state newspaper, you know? Chris Gilliam: That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's a sport that's definitely growing and you know, you, you have to sell it not only within your building, but if you want it to keep growing, that's one of the reasons why we're doing this podcast. just, we got a good thing going. We want to keep it growing and keep it going, but you got to find a new way to do it and move with the time. So, yeah. Ron Roberts: Absolutely. Chris Gilliam: Probably wasn't easy to try and sell your sport at first to newspapers. Was it Ron? Ron Roberts: No, for one, like I'm watching the stories develop over the years and the very first story they run, I was like, oh man, there's a lot of mistakes in that article, know, whoo. Like, and it weren't bad mistakes, like all the spelling and grammar is right, but trying to read the story from the way you would read it or another powerlifting friend of mine would read it. And I'd be like, oh, oh, oh, wow. And now, I've been dealing with the same guy for 10 years now and he'll send me the story and I'm like, wow, over 10 years he's learned so much. He's using my language and our language and he knows what to ask and I know what he wants, right? I know what ⁓ format he wants me to send it in and what things I should tell him. And not only have we done stories about weightlifting meets, I coach a lot of kids from outside my district that don't have a coach. It's another thing that's blown up my program because ⁓ there's a lot of kids that fall through the cracks that don't get an opportunity to lift because there's not a coach, right? And they have the right to compete in the MHA's PLA because they're a Michigan high school student, but they don't have the coach. So if a kid wants to learn and wants to work hard and they don't have a coach, I'll take them in. I had a lifter when Lusk left, what Bentley, not Bentley, Bendal. When he left Bendal, ⁓ it left a hole in their program. They had some good lifters. took a young female lifter on. She went to the GSID with one of my lifters. They got to be friends. Chris Gilliam: bundle. Ron Roberts: I coached her at State her junior year and she took fifth and I remember saying, hey, if you would have been working out with me all this time, I think you would have took second or third. And ⁓ the next year I coached her all year and she ended up winning States the next year at Lake Orient. And ⁓ we did a story on her about how she come to powerlifting and the challenges she had lost her father young. the challenges of becoming a power lifter to deal with the loss of her father. And it was like a beautiful story, right? And then I got a young lifter on my team who started her life needing a liver. And in the second grade, they pulled her out. They pulled her out of school to do a transplant. And so she is still lifting for my program today. She's been with my program like four years now. ⁓ one of my top lifters, younger sisters. And we did a story on that where they talked about what powerlifting meant to someone who never thought they'd get to play sports, right? That she had a liver transplant like a third grade, right? And now ⁓ she pulled, the first time she pulled 275 at a ⁓ meet. I was crying like a fat baby. was like, here's this kid that might not have made it, right? When I met her, we had to wear a mask because she had a compromised immune system and she was still dealing with the effects of the operation. here she is five years later pulling 275 into me, you know? And the newspapers did a story on that. So there's all kinds of ways to use the media to blow your program up. Chris Gilliam: For sure. No, that's great. Thanks for sharing that stuff. Chris Whittaker: We should probably add her to the guest list too. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Ron Roberts: Hahaha for sure. Chris Whittaker: So the next one here, ⁓ Ron kind of already touched on the numbers. This one is this one's yours, Chris. I don't know if you want to ask this move to the next one. Chris Gilliam: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, that's good. ⁓ so we all know powerlifting is a sport that we experienced a lot of failures in it. ⁓ what's your favorite failure or a setback that ultimately set you up for success later? It doesn't have to be in powerlifting Ron. It can be, it could be something that in your personal life, but you know, something that you, you took a negative and turned into a positive. Ron Roberts: Well... Well, I'll tell you, I had a really great athlete early on in my career named Abby Joseph. She started my second year of powerlifting. She was friends with my daughter and she just had a natural. She was always muscular, right? And so it didn't take me but like six months to have her walking around like looking like a Greek God, right? She wouldn't, she took her shirt off. Everybody noticed who she was. And ⁓ when she pulled those, when we got to the USAPL and she put her singlet on, there was no one that didn't realize she wasn't, ⁓ she wasn't a competitor, but they, her junior year, she had a lot going on and I was trying to get her to register for a qualifier at my gym. And this was, so this would have been. 2018, I think. No, I'm talking about... Chris Gilliam: That was your senior year, wasn't it, Ron? Ron Roberts: ⁓ yeah, yeah, her senior year. right. It was her senior year. She, ⁓ Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Cause her junior year, she set the state record for benchpress. Ron Roberts: Yeah, 185, yeah, but in 155 class, I think. her senior year, I pretty much had her set in that weight class to become the state champ again. And ⁓ we're go to nationals. And the meet I wanted her to go to capped out because- ⁓ Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. Ron Roberts: She didn't sign up fast enough and I learned to be a lifting USAPL to be more aggressive with the parents about getting their kids signed up. ⁓ so she had to go to a different USAPL. So when I finally got around to qualifying her for States, when we got to the meet, she wasn't heavy enough and had to drop down into 155. And there was somebody in the 155 pound weight class that year from Port Huron that that I wasn't sure she could beat unless we had her absolute best day. And I should have dropped their numbers and just worried about the qualifying totals. But we get through squat was a little shaky, but we come out of it good. We go into bench and sometimes when we're at a regional, it had a weird a weird bench where there was only two lift off points and it was outside of what she was used to. And she couldn't find her lift off the way she wanted to. And I opened her on a bench that she should have been able to make easy, but ⁓ she couldn't make one. And so here I'm standing, I'm standing there next to the defending state champion of another weight class who just bombed out of a meet. and isn't going to be able to qualify for states now. ⁓ dealing with everything that involves explaining to the parents, making sure the kid's okay, dealing with my own hurt feelings, because ⁓ that was a crushing defeat at that point in my career, you know? I mean, and like questioning myself over and over, did I do the right thing? Should I have lowered it? Should I have done this? Should I have done that? And then We had to focus on, ⁓ we had to focus on nationals and ⁓ that was the first nationals I coached in ⁓ Ableton, Wisconsin. ⁓ Abby was an amazing, strong lifter, but you had to set the stage for and make sure it looked like what you told her it was going to look like. And we got there and sure enough, her first squat, I even lowered her first squat on Chris's advice, right? Because I was gonna open her at 275 and he goes, no, why don't you open it at 245? So we lowered 30 pounds and she doesn't go deep enough. And I was like, I wish I would have kept it at 275 and we did 275 twice instead of 245 twice, but we get 245 then we get 275. Because we didn't squat as much as we thought we were gonna squat, put it down to the whole championship come down to the last deadlift, like they usually do. But it was ⁓ a lift she had never got off the ground before, and she pulled 353. And I remember being my first Nationals and it was probably one of my best coaching jobs. ⁓ Chris Gilliam: you Ron Roberts: talking about what my next lift was going to be, even though it wasn't what my next lift was going to be, out loud so everyone else would make their moves. And I remember telling her, I'm going to raise your lift. I'm going to raise your lift. And I handed the slip to the person entering their next lift. And I actually went down. But I said out loud several times, I'm going to raise your lift. And then everybody behind me raised their lift. And we went out and crushed ours, and they all missed theirs, right? Chris Whittaker: you Ron Roberts: And so we took that Miss State Championship that we probably should have had and turned it into our first national championship. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Well, I remember when Abby, you know, that she bombed out on bunch of that. We met as a board because we were like, how do we not let the defending state champion? But that's where we had to just, you know, go with the integrity of how the, the associations run is she didn't qualify at a regional meet. So she can't participate at the state me. She didn't register a qualifying total. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: You know, it sucked because Abby proved it at national. She deserved to be there, you know? So, but yeah, she got to have her moment on the biggest stage, I guess, is the. The great. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was being my first high school nationals and my first national champion. It was probably the most special, right? ⁓ Because I was still learning, right? And ⁓ if this coach was coaching her in 2018 and not me back then, that would have never happened, right? But you don't learn that. Chris Whittaker: No, Chris Gilliam: Sure. Yeah, for sure. Ron Roberts: You learn the most from your failures and you do your successes. So, ⁓ but, ⁓ looking back, everyone after that is special in their own way. You know, ⁓ the year we won, ⁓ the JV national title, I had no idea that we were going to win it. Right. I took four girls. We all placed high and, we were the last people to know we were sitting in the stands, ⁓ competing against teams with 15 kids on it. Chris Gilliam: Sure. Ron Roberts: And I'm there with four kids hoping to take third. And we didn't take third. And then we didn't take second. And I remember being upset, telling my parents, thought we would have least placed. And then they call our name for the championship. I remember everyone around us going, they all knew we won, I didn't know we won until they called our name. But it- ⁓ Chris Whittaker: Thank Ron Roberts: Every success I have comes from a series of failures. Chris Gilliam: ⁓ for sure. No, and I think it's great Ron, ⁓ because for, you know, Whitaker, Abigail was a, ⁓ extremely talented athlete. ended up playing softball at Michigan state university. Well, she was all state, all everything in softball. was her sport. ⁓ but she, yeah, she had pipes on her, man. was. Pipes and deltoids like she was put together and yeah, she. Ron Roberts: Yeah. Yes. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: nice young lady, her and my daughter were friends because they became rivals for a period of time competing against each other, but in a friendly way like it always is in our association. Ron Roberts: Still does today. Yeah. Yeah. for sure. Chris Gilliam: All right, we should try to get to the rapid fire coach. Chris Whittaker: Another one we probably need to track down. Another kid we probably should track down for the for this show. Ron Roberts: What'd say? Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Ron Roberts: Yes, she's in veterinary school today and still if you thought she was jacked in 2018, you should see her today. Chris Gilliam: No, I'm sure. All right. You want to get to rapid fire coach. Chris Whittaker: Yep. Rapid fire questions here. Speed set questions, coach Roberts. Just real quick answers and we'll move through. Chris and I will alternate back and forth asking them to you. Your favorite lift, the squat bench press or deadlift? Ron Roberts: personally or to coach. Chris Whittaker: Both. Chris Gilliam: both. Ron Roberts: ⁓ To coach, I feel I love to coach deadlift. ⁓ To lift, I like to squat. Personally, I like to squat. To coach, I like to deadlift. Chris Gilliam: low bar or high bar squat personally and coach. Ron Roberts: So for my, I prefer high bar. I'm sorry, I prefer low bar, but I found that some kids aren't ready to do what it takes to get there. And, you know, one of my best lifters ever, Evelyn Edburn, she didn't convert to low bar. I tried, but she didn't convert till she got to college. Right. And I try to convert every lifter to low bar. It's what I prefer. But I feel some until they get the muscle set of being afraid of the bar slipping off their back. But ⁓ it's funny you bring this up because I'm coaching a lifter from another school right now on Sundays. And I tried to convert her ⁓ from high bar to low bar. last week and she's like, well, this is too, this is too high and this is too low. It's going to fall off my back. And I was like, well, let's move it up to where you feel comfortable. And when we were done, I only had it an inch lower than it started. Right. And so I was like, what's your issue with it? And her wrists were hurting her. I said, well, go home and ice them and come back next week and we'll talk about it. And she came back. with a different mindset today, because I moved my practice to 330 for this. And in four lifts, we had her right where she needed to be, four inches lower than we started. And I was like, I've never converted a lifter in two practices before. I was like, I don't know if you're amazing or I'm amazing or if we're both amazing, but this worked way better than it's ever worked for me. Chris Gilliam: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Chris Whittaker: But Ron Roberts: Watching I went up I took her up and wait because you know the further you go up in the weight That's where you find the forms in your flaw right the flaws in your form is the further you go up and wait and I got her up to a weight that I knew was hard for her high bar and I watched how easy it went as low bar and that smile when she locked out and she realized that this was the right thing and That I wasn't crazy Chris Whittaker: So without Sumo or conventional deadlift. Chris Gilliam: Awesome. Ron Roberts: I prefer coaching and deadlifting conventional. ⁓ Probably with the experience of all the old school guys that I hung out with learning the sport. But every now and then a kid shows up that was meant to be a sumo lifter. My daughter was one of them. I converted her to sumo and it was a much easier lift for her in sumo. And I've converted several to sumo. because of their leg length and converted them back to conventional later because ⁓ they had such a hard time tucking their hips. And I watched so many videos on converting to sumo. And in my experience is you were meant for sumo or you weren't. Chris Gilliam: Do you prefer a max out or a rep PR? Ron Roberts: ⁓ I rarely do a true max. I like to do what I call a heavy single where we'll get through our reps and then we'll go above what our top rep, what our top reps were, but below what like a true max would be. Cause I find lifters lift heavy better if they're good warmed up. And so I almost never do like a true max, but I'll, ⁓ I'll do ⁓ some reps and then throw. a heavier lift on top of Chris Gilliam: Thank you. Chris Whittaker: So next is your best accessory exercises. So what's your best accessory exercise for the squat? Ron Roberts: ⁓ reverse hyper. without a doubt. Chris Whittaker: Amen. Chris Gilliam: What's your best accessory exercise for the bench press? Ron Roberts: We do all kinds of rows. ⁓ I've added three new exercises here recently that I think are going to help. They came right from Louie. An incline exercise where you kind of hinge your arms, come up, and then punch forward. I forget what he calls it, but that one's Chris Whittaker: rolling the rolling tricep extensions or the fold in. Ron Roberts: That's the other one. I added that exercise about three months ago and it kind of rolled out of my rotation. And so I would just sent that video to the kids to say, but where you put the ⁓ on a bench, you put the dumbbells behind your head and roll them up. I think that's an amazing exercise. we do a lot of. ⁓ different rows. One of the first books I read, the founder of 531, Canadian guy, he talked about ⁓ pulling twice as much as you push. So I try to have a lot of ⁓ rows and stuff in there. Chris Gilliam: Okay, awesome. Best accessory exercise for the deadlift. Ron Roberts: RDL is without a doubt, right? As frustrating as they are to coach, ⁓ you know, and RDL is an exercise that once you get them doing it right, you're probably going to have to go back later and fix it a few more times because they get, they rush it or they, they're in a hurry or they misunderstand how important the form is. Cause I'm like, that's a great exercise. You're not working any of the muscle groups I told you to work. Let's tweak it and get it fixed. ⁓ but without a doubt, RDLs. Chris Gilliam: Thank you. Chris Whittaker: So that's the end of our speed set question. we're, you know, hey, we've let these things roll. ⁓ we, there are our last thing, Ron, anything that we haven't discussed that you want to share with our audience. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Ron Roberts: Well, ⁓ I discussed it a little bit with Chris, but you know, these days the USAPL is a big part of my life and ⁓ I spent as much time following what kids do in other states than my own, right? Just to know who I got to worry about so I don't get surprised. And then the USAPL ⁓ handed us a gift. don't know if it was on purpose, but ⁓ when they parted ways with the IPF, they decided to host our own world meet. And the IDFPA was formed, the International Drug Free Powerlifting Association. And my first experience of that last year, going to Boston, Not even knowing that my kids were eligible for it till about a week after nationals, right? having good lifters, ⁓ having a lifter just miss first place, having another lifter take first place, ⁓ meeting all these amazing people from another country, learning so much because every meet I go that's national or world. Chris Gilliam: Hmm. Ron Roberts: I meet some coach that's been doing this forever and they tell me something I've never heard before, right? And then I can bring that back and apply it to my program and apply it to the board. so without getting too deep in it, cause I know it's probably going to be another episode. I really like to stress that we need to support this IDFPA so that there's a reason for people to cross the pond and come over here and compete against us. ⁓ I have a good friend in Ireland that runs the Irish powerlifting association. And she is actually from Montrose, Michigan, but ended up in Ireland and now runs their program over there. She's been over there for longer than she lived here. And so we're working on a way to create a rival with the European lifters and the United States lifters. so that this meat means something a little different. But the most important thing on our end is to make sure the American lifters are there, right? Make sure that we're buying into this so we can create an amazing competition. ⁓ I spent an hour talking to a young Israeli lifter last year in Boston and... I can still see his face, right? He was such an honest kid and so excited about being in America and lifting. And then he told me how, you know, in Israel, he was going to have to go into the army afterwards. And over the last few months, there's not a day I haven't wondered where that kid is today, you know, just so many great experiences between these different meets. Chris Whittaker: ⁓ and that's a thing, right? You bring a ton of that experience and the travel all across the country to our board and to our association. ⁓ and you know, other than the fact too, that you're a fun guy to be around and talk to that's why we love you. You know, ⁓ so it's, it's been great talking with you, Chris, ⁓ any, ⁓ last questions for coach Roberts? Ron Roberts: Yeah. Thank you. Chris Gilliam: Now we'll get them on and talk more about the USA PL and the idea of PA. Um, because you know, that stuff's important as a power lifting with the sport, but our association, need to help in whatever way we can with it. So it's the future of our sport. And we can talk about college participation because he's got some lifters left in, in college. yeah, we can definitely talk to Ron again about some other subjects down the road. Thanks for being here, Ron. Appreciate you. And, ⁓ you will be our zone. What is a zone five liaison? Yeah. Chris Whittaker: Yeah. Ron Roberts: Thanks for having me. Yeah, and USAPL. ⁓ Yeah, I would like to say to any coach out there that's got questions about the USAPL, look me up on the website and ⁓ if you email me, I'll probably send you back my phone number because Chris knows how well I check my emails. But if you got a question, reach out, you know. ⁓ Chris Gilliam: liaison yeah so Ron Roberts: We can help develop your national program and we can help. If you don't want to be involved in it and your kids willing to come to my gym, I might even help the kid, right? I'm doing that with two kids right now. So ⁓ if you got a question to ask, because I'm available. Chris Gilliam: Thanks again, Ron. Appreciate you. Ron Roberts: All right, thanks for having me. Chris Whittaker: This has been another episode of the platform where the stories weigh a ton.