Latest / More Than Medicine / MTM - Interview Dr. Michael Cloer..Should America Stand with Israel

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MTM - Interview Dr. Michael Cloer..Should America Stand with Israel · More Than Medicine

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: To More Than Medicine.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where Jesus is more than enough for the agriculture.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hosting the operatic.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Jackson.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So listen because the doctor is.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty dusty scrapbook.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm privileged once again to have online with me today Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Michael Clore, one of my longtime friends and my former pastor many, many years ago, Dr.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Clore.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm so glad that you let me come back.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Dr.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Jackson.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: I look forward to this meeting.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's my privilege, and we want to deal with a very delicate issue today.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And but before we start, I I want to establish your credentials, Dr.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Clore, as before we dive into the question of the day.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now you've been a Baptist pastor for how many years?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've been a Southern Baptist pastor for over 50 years.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I pastored five different churches in North and South Carolina, New York, and Arkansas.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: I got to serve on the International Mission Board for eight years as a trustee.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've been taking uh over 60 different mission trips internationally through the years.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: And uh starting in 1992, we started going to Israel.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: I had a deep love for Israel since it's the Bible nation.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so God has allowed us to lead 27 different groups into Israel since 1992.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we've stayed there on several occasions.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: We've spent two sabbaticals in Israel.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: We love the nation of Israel.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Plus, I read my Bible every day.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't read the Bible without having some knowledge or needing some knowledge about this land of Israel.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha, gotcha.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now you still go on mission trips, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: I still go.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh last year went on three international trips.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: This year I already have three scheduled for 26.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, yes, praise the Lord for that.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Now, why do you go on mission trips?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because the the greatest problem in the world is the lostness.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: If we give them food and shelter and clothing and medicine and education and they die without Jesus, so what?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So our goal is not just to make this world a better place to go to hell from.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: The goal is to try to tell people who've not, especially who've never heard the gospel of Jesus.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: So they'll have an opportunity to spend eternity with him.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's why we go.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we go.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: All right, now here's the issue of the day.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of controversy about the nation of Israel, the political entity of Israel.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's a lot of brouhahaha about Israel because of the war that's going on right now between Israel and Hamas and and the war that's in Gaza.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of pushback against that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a lot of anti-Semitism in the world today, even in in in our nation.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a lot of um kickback right now against Israel because of their their war against Hamas.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of celebrities and notable people saying things about Israel.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I just want to I want us to talk about some of these things that are being said in the media today.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: For example, some well-known Christian celebrities have been put in reels on social media saying that Christians should not support Israel today.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: For example, Tucker Carlson, very prominent uh media personality, says that Israel today is not the Israel of the Bible.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And for that reason, Christians should not support the Israel of the 21st century.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Pastor, how would you respond to Tucker and, for example, Candace Owen?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: She's also said very similar things.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And another media personality is Kirk Cameron.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he's said very similar things.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna throw that open to you.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was amazed at this the first time I heard it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: I've heard both Tucker and Candace say things.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Both of them uh claim to be Christians.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not doubting their Christianity.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I just deeply hurt by what they've said against Israel.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Tucker.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: For those of us who followed him through the years, for years, he he came from a biblical worldview.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, when he was on Fox News, he would answer questions from his biblical worldview.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: But you remember he uh he left Fox, or Fox uh left him, because his worldview began to change.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I don't know a better way to say this, but he he got in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood and began to make deals and begin to be financially supported and workers alongside of uh uh Qatar.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: So much so that some people refer to him as uh Tucker Qatarson.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um he he's in bed with him now.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Of all the scriptures that he would question, I've not seen him on social media ever talk about the scripture that says, be not unequally yoked with unbelievers.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: But this is where he's coming from now.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so all of a sudden his view on Israel has changed completely to where he's he's making these statements.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh maybe, maybe you saw the same interview.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Tucker was uh on the uh a show with uh uh I won't try he's a famous anti-Semite, uh, Nick Fuentes.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: He was he was being interviewed by Nick Fuentes, and they were showing a clip of uh Senator Ted Cruz, and they belittle Senator Ted Cruz when he said uh God blesses those who bless Israel and curses those who curse Israel.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so at that point, Tucker Cross and attacks him and says, uh I'm familiar with that scripture, Genesis chapter 12.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Nowhere uh does it say Israel in that verse.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you have injected Israel in that, along with a lot of uh evangelicals, when it doesn't say that.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and he he began to downplay our support of Israel to the point where he said, there is no such thing as Christian Zionism.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you cannot be a follower of Jesus Christ and a supporter of Israel today.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here was the statement The Israel today is not the Israel in the Bible.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: When God made promises to Israel in the Bible, that was one group of people, but they rejected Jesus Christ, and so those promises are null and void.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the Israel today is a totally different Israel.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, big wow.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: That that statement shocked me because evidently uh Tucker may know more than the Apostle Paul knew.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because when Paul wrote Romans uh, especially Romans 9, 10, and 11, those three chapters, he deals with the Jewish people.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: He asked the question is God finished with the Jewish people?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: He he he asked several questions in chapters 9, 10, and 11.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Is there justice with God?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, of course there's always justice with God.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he says, but God has shown his favoritism toward the Jewish people, he chose the Jewish people.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now you remember, Dr.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Jackson, he begins Romans 9 saying that I have a deep sorrow and uh unceasing anguish in my heart for my brothers, my sisters, according to the flesh.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Now, who's he talking about?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: His brother and sister, the Jewish people.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: And do you know what he calls them?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: The very next verse.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: For they are Israelites.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: What I've noticed in all of these chapters, he never refers to them as Jews.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Over and over and over, they're Israelites, the Israelites.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Wait a minute, they're the nation of Israel has been destroyed.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: They're living under Roman Empire domination, and yet this poor apostle seems to think there are such people called Israelites.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: So is the Israel today the Israel of the Bible?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the word of God says so.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't make a distinction.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: When you're talking about Israel, you're talking about uh the nation, you're talking about the people, you're talking about the land.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's the only nation in world history that has ever been destroyed, and yet came back and formed under the same name, using the same language, uh in the same land, having the same traditions, following the same religion.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: No other nation in history has ever done that.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So this uh assumption that uh we today as Christians do not need to support Israel because this Israel today is a mean uh man-made organization.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's a nation that's not anywhere tied to the nation wide.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: That is refuted in scriptures.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense to you?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: It makes perfect sense to me.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't understand that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well now uh Candace Owens, the same thing.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: When Candace came out, she said some horrific things against Israel since the war started, um saying that Israel, one of the things she said is that Israel uh is a genocidal nation.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: And she loves to portray the women and the children that uh the Israeli army uh killed during the war with Gaza.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um Israel is a genocidal nation.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now let me just stop right there and say these uh unfounded accusations, without logic, without facts, without evidence, are just smear tactics against the people of Israel, and especially against our Lord.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: You see, the battle is not just against Israel.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Why do they hate Israel?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't know if they hate Israel.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: I know one person that hates Israel.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: He's a person, he's a created being.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: His name's Lucifer.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And ever since Genesis 3.15, the first prophecy in the Bible, from that moment on, he's hated children and babies especially, and he's hated Israel because uh there may be some Christians who don't really understand the Bible or say they don't really believe all the Bible.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: But let me tell you, the devil believes all the Bible.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And he knows that Messiah has come from the Jewish lineage, and this same Messiah is coming back to planet Earth as a Jewish man to set up a Jewish temple in the Jewish city of Jerusalem.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's the hatred toward the Jewish people.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just a hatred to them as a people, it goes back to the hatred of God.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's a supernatural hatred.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep, you know.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's the only way that you can uh that's the only way that you can find any kind of logic in it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Why would they make these unfounded, and in the in our world of social media, you can make unfounded accusations without facts, and people say, well, you know, I heard it on uh I saw it on Facebook.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: As if that gives it authority.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me let me ask you another question.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: What about the Christian theologians who say that Christians have no obligation to support Israel today because God's promises about Israel were based on their obedience, and because they disobeyed God and broke their covenant with Him, Israel has no has now been replaced by the church.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: What about is replacement theology a thing?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is it really true?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's it, hurts me to hear them say things like that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: There is a growing number of theologians, mostly either our millennialist or post-millennialist.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, they don't believe in the coming of Jesus the way that I would, uh, that there is going to be a rapture, there is going to be a literal kingdom for a thousand years.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And because of that uh eschatological view, uh, they have a wrong uh view about Israel.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: God made his covenant with Israel, Israel broke their covenant because they disobeyed God, and therefore God has broken his covenant with them.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now, here's what I always go back to.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Which covenant are you talking about?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: There are two covenants.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there's the Mosaic covenant that God made through Moses in Genesis, excuse me, Exodus 20, and then the book of Deuteronomy.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: But that's different from the Abrahamic covenant.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the differences.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: The Mosaic covenant is conditional.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Over and over when God gives them the law.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: If you do this, then I will bless you with this.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: But if you do not keep my word, then upon you will be these cursings.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: And God laid it out, finished it all the way out to where he said, uh, you choose, are you going to choose blessings or cursings?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's the Mosaic covenant, conditional.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's pertaining to the law, not to the land.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: The Abrahamic covenant is per claim it is pertaining to the land and to the Lord.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: It goes all the way back.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: That scripture that Tucker uh misused from Genesis chapter 12.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I will bless them that bless you, and I will curse those that curse you.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: From you, all the families of the earth will be blessed.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to give you a land and make of you a great nation.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: The Abrahamic covenant was non-conditional.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: How do you know that?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because he didn't say, if you will obey me, this then I'm going to give you the land.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to give you the land.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, in six places in the scripture, he says, I know you will turn against me.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: I know there will be a time when you will disobey me and follow other gods, and I will punish you and I will scatter you among all nations, but I will bring you back into this land.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because he made a covenant with them, but it was not a conditional covenant, it was an everlasting covenant.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Two covenants.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so this everlasting uh here's let me just give you the very first reason I would uh dismiss replacement theology.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, these these blessings are not for Israel today, they're for the church today.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: The church has replaced Israel.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: They're not for the Jews, they're for the Christians.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: The Christians have replaced the Jews.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: The old covenant is dead, it's meaningless.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's been replaced by the new covenant.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, the Jews rejected Jesus, uh, therefore God has rejected them.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: All of that is false theology.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's a yeah, you may be familiar with the name, Bishop Earl Falk in uh uh Atlanta.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh here's a statement from him.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: If Christians would just quit supporting Israel and economically boycott these Christ-rejecting Jews, then the Jews would turn to Jesus Christ.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's heresy.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's not just anti-Semitic, that's anti-Christ theology.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm amazed how many people in churches follow that kind of reasoning.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's heresy.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Genesis 15, God gives the covenant to Abraham in chapter 12, he reiterates it in chapter 13, he reiterates it again in chapter 15.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: God takes Abraham out, look at all the stars in the sky, so shall your descendants be.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and he says, Uh, the this descendant of yours will not be your uh your servant, but will be from your own body.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: From your own body.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's telling this to an 80-year-old man at this point.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he'll come from your own body.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Abraham believed the Lord and it was counted to him for righteousness.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm reading Genesis 15.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so God brought Abraham out and showed him all the, I'm going to give you all this land to possess.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Lord, how can I know that I'm going to possess it?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: So the Lord said to him, Bring me a three-year-old cow, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtle dove, and a young pigeon.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And when Abraham brought him to these animals to him, he split open, told Abraham, split open these animals, and he did.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then the Bible says, as he as he split these animals open, a deep sleep came upon Abraham, and suddenly great terror and darkness descended upon him.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then the Lord said, Know this for certain, your offspring will be like resonant aliens in this land that doesn't belong to them, and they'll be taken into a place to be oppressed and enslaved.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Afterward, I'll bring them back, and they will possess this land forever.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now, while Abraham was hearing God say this, the Bible says, a smoking firepot and a flaming torch appeared and passed through to the vided animals.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: And the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, I give this land to you and to your offspring as an everlasting covenant.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let me stop right there.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Three covenants in the Bible: a shoe covenant like was made with Boaz, a salt covenant.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Salt covenant was the least binding.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: More binding was a shoe covenant.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I want you to stand in my shoes.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: You take my place.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: But the most binding covenant in the Middle East is the blood covenant.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Dividing these animals up, and then two men would hold hands and walk between the animals and make this I'm new, I'm giving you this.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the other one would say, Okay, and then I Give you this.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: And what they were saying publicly is may God do to me what we've done to these animals if I break my word.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: However, Abraham did not walk between these animals.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: There was only one.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: This is a one-sided covenant that's right.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's not based on our faith.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank God it's not based on our faithfulness, it's based on his faithfulness.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm giving you these.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: And the word eof is not in there anywhere.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's not conditional.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm giving you this.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's number one.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, it's an everlasting.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now looked up that word everlasting in the original Hebrew, and what that word everlasting literally means is everlasting.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: It will last forever.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: There's no time period.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's not when the United Nations says that's it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's everlasting.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: So those two things alone nullify the replacement theology.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we have an obligation to support Israel, even the Israel today.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: What about if you disagree with what Israel's doing?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, then you need to speak up and say that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the issue.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: Can we support Israel and disagree with some things that Israel does and speak against it?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, there are there are millions of Israelis who live and would die for Israel, but they don't mind letting their voice be heard if they are disagree with the government of Israel.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: So to disagree with the government is not anti-Semitic even any more than to disagree with the governor of the United States would be non-patriotic.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Anti-Semitic.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Here's that word anti-Semitic.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's when we try to apply a different set of standards for Israel than we do for any other nation on earth.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: See, let's bring it in even closer.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Today there are 1.3 billion Chinese in the world, mostly Buddhist.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: There are 1.4 Indian people in the world.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they're mostly Hindu.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's 1.2 Catholics in the world.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: There are two billion Muslims.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: 1.3 billion Buddhists, 1.4 billion Hindus, 1.2 billion Catholics, 2 billion Muslims, and there's 15 million Jews.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Historians say that there could be as many as 250 million plus today if it weren't for the Holocaust and if it weren't for the centuries of hatred against them.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And of these 15 million Jews, only half of them live in Israel.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, if someone wants to play the race card, remind them that half of the Jews living in Israel are Jews of color.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: They're Jews that came from African descent.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's been persecuted.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: They've run out of Yemen, they've been run out of Ethiopia, they've been run out of Egypt.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: And there's Sephardic Jews who now live in the land of Israel.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they live sharing a nation with 20% Arab Muslims who have their own mosque, their own clerics, their own Imuns.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they're living in one of the smallest nations on the planet.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: I've heard it described, it's less than the size of the state of New Jersey, and that's true.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I've discovered it's also about the same size as Phoenix County, Arizona.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's the land of Israel.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what bothers me.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: When this small nation, the only Jewish nation on earth, when that nation comes under attack, then I first of all have a human responsibility.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: I have a human responsibility to defend it, to defend its existence.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, uh, if the situation were reversed, if there were two billion Jews on the world in 46 different nations, and they were surrounding one tiny nation the size of Phoenix County, Arizona, that held the only 15 million Muslims on earth.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think we would try to support those Muslims when they would be attacked?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, of course.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's human responsibility.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: But that's not the way it is.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's 46 Muslim nations around the world that's predominantly Muslim, and there's that one little area called Israel that's the Jewish nation.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I Robert, I have a human responsibility, I have a moral responsibility.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: As a follower of Jesus Christ, I've got a spiritual responsibility, a biblical responsibility to stand with the Jewish people.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, exactly right.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you think anti-Semitism is on the rise?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we it it's I mean, even in the United States, there's anti-Semitism, not just in the Middle East.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: We we see it every day in the news.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's more and more attacks, there's more and more bombings, there's more attacks on individuals.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: And these are just the ones we know about.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: These are just the ones that they're letting us know about.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Professors being murdered in university campuses, and they spend days saying, you know, we're still looking for a motive.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: And every one of these professors having a Jewish name, uh, I'm just an ignorant preacher, but I've got this one figured out.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and you had all those folks down in Australia that were killed last last week.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the question, why is it increasing?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's increasing.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's increasing because he knows his time is short.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Who?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: The one who hates Israel.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: He knows his time is short.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: And there's going to come a time, the scripture tells us, our Lord Jesus tells us there's going to come a time when uh Jewish hatred is going to rise to such an extent that they're going to look for somebody to help them, or they're going to be wiped off the face of this earth.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that person may be breathing the same air we're breathing today on planet Earth.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's not the Christ, he's the Antichrist.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: There is going to come on the scene a world ruler that's going to control all the world's economy, all the world's financial wealth, uh, control the world's governments.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: There'll still be nations and nationalities, but this world leader, you talk about an influencer, I'm using a social media term, he is the ultimate influencer.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he's not the Christ, he's the antichrist.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: God has his Christ.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Satan has his antichrist.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: And he's going to do everything he can to stop Messiah from coming back by wiping out the Jewish people.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: And he's going to turn world opinion against the Jewish people.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus said the time will come like this.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: Paul writes about it in uh 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: This person's going to have such a domination over the world, we're going to wipe out the Jews.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, this is not in Scripture, but just imagine tomorrow breaking news, and we listen to it, and there's a person that's ran on the Temple Mount carrying a satchel.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: The police were yelling at him to stop.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: He wouldn't stop.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: He ran close to the uh dome of the rock, and all of a sudden there's a huge explosion.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's a mushroom cloud.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: The Temple Mount has been leveled.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this man, when they show the videos of it, he's he's dressed like an orthodox Jew.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Now, news won't tell us this, but it wasn't really an Orthodox Jew.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: This was a Muslim man who they have dressed up like a Jewish person in order to cause the world to turn against the Jews once and for all.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, CNN, ABC, they're all reporting the Jews have blown up the dome of the rock, they've destroyed Alaska Mosque.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now we've got to stop these Jews once and for all.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to outlaw them, we're going to take over their land, and nation after nation after nation gets together.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is in Ezekiel chapter 37.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to happen.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: But then there's somebody on the scene that says, No, I'm gonna I'm gonna broker a deal between Russia and China and Israel and the surrounding countries, that there'll be peace.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: There should be no fighting for seven years.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Jews will be allowed to build their temple, uh, Muslims will be allowed to rebuild the Dome of the Roth.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: You can both dwell there.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Who is this person?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: That that person will be the Antichrist, and that's going to happen.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, because of that, the anti-Semitism is on the rise to turn world opinion against the Jews.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that now the only real friends they have right now is America.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Would America ever turn its back on the Jews?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the question is, would Christians, would people who call themselves Christians ever make statements like this is a genocidal people?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen it happen.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I hate to say it, but we'll probably see America turn its back on Israel.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well now we'll talk about some of these terms that are bandied about.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: The terms like Christian nationalism, Christian Zionism, and we're and the celebrity Christians on social media, they're denouncing these terms.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And they're saying that no Christian should be a patriot or a nationalist or a Zionist.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: What's the biblical answer to those, Dr.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Clore?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: I saw last week.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: I saw where Tucker Carlson had said, you cannot be a Christian nationalist.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Those are two different terms.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're either a Christian that supports Christianity or you're a nationalist that supports your own nation, wherever that nation is.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you cannot be a Christian and a Zionist.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I have a great problem with that.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: A Christian nationalist is someone who's a Christian who loves their country, whatever country that is, whatever country that is.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think our Lord Jesus, if I'm not mistaken, uh in Luke chapter 20, Jesus, when they ask him, well, should we pay taxes to Caesar?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, here's an excellent opportunity for him to say, of course not.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: This is a pagan, he didn't say that at all.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, why would he say, give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're living in this nation, a pagan, Gentile, hateful nation, but yet you're to give it tribute.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Peter says the same thing.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Christian nationalism, if Christian nationalism is loving your nation, thanking God for your nation, supporting your nation, praying for your nation, then I'm a Christian nationalist.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I think even though they lived in much worse places than we do in America, Peter and Paul were also nationalists.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Christian Zionists, if a Christian Zionist is someone that loves Zion, then I am a Christian Zionist.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I love Zion because Zion is mentioned 150 times in Scripture.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Seven of those in the New Testament.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Every time, check me out on this, every time Zion is talked about, if it's talked about in a blessing way, it's referring to God's people.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: If it's talking about in a dangerous way, or those who come against Zion, it's always those who hate God.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: You never have those who love God coming against Zion.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's nowhere in Scripture.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Therefore, our Lord Jesus was the Zionist.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: He talks about it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: He says when he comes in in the next chapter of Luke, Luke 21, he says, uh, these things are going to be fulfilled in Jerusalem.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be destroyed and it's going to be overshadowed by the Gentiles.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Then Jesus says, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus knew that Zion was going to be restored.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: Paul knew it in Romans chapter 15.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: Peter knew it in Acts chapter 3.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Peter, when he was preaching, said, uh, this will happen here until everything that the prophets have foretold will come to pass.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what have they foretold?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: They foretold a future time when the temple is going to be built, and the king of kings and lord of lords is going to rule and reign from Zion.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's not happened yet.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: So either those prophets were telling a lie or they were speaking allegorically.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the liberals would say.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Or it's literally yet to be fulfilled.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Peter was a Zionist.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, I'm with you on that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: I understand that fully.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I do.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, look, our time's about out, preacher.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: You got me spellbound here, but tell me, wrap it up now.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: We just got a minute or two.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Any last comments?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think the best way we can support Israel, the only nation on earth that the Bible says we should pray for is Israel.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: For these that say no, we should have nothing to do with Israel.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Psalm 122, pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: So we need to pray for them.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: We need to stand with them.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: We need to speak up for them.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we need to support them.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let me share with you one more verse.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's in Romans chapter 15.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: God is talking about the blessings that the Jews have made upon the Gentiles.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then he said, if the Gentiles have shared their spiritual blessings, then we are, then they are obligated to minister to them in material blessings.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: We've received the blessings of the scriptures that was written by the Jews.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: We were so many blessings that's come because of the Jewish people.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now we're obligated, the Bible says, to share with them in material needs.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's another way we can stand with Israel.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: To the very end, till we get to be in Israel again someday, all of us who are Christ followers.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Then I'm going to be supportive of Israel.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I got you.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you on that.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, brother, that's a lot of information.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's a lot of good information.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it answers a lot of the questions that sincere seekers have about what is our position towards Israel.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's imperative for us that we should always pray for Jerusalem, pray for the nation of Israel, and that we should always stand with Israel.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you listen to More Than Medicine.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Dr.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Michael Clore, a good friend of mine, a former pastor of mine, Hupp, he's also one of my hunting buddies.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Dr.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Clore, I thank you for your time.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: I thank you for your expertise, and I hope you'll come back and be with us again sometime.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for allowing me, Dr.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Jackson.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's all the time we have for today.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And until next week, remember, Jesus loves you and your doctor loves you.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I pray that the Lord will bless you real good.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, Instagram, or web page at Jackson Family Ministry.