Latest / Relatively Functional Dads / Bonus Episode 002 - Becoming a Dad While Losing My Father w/ Derek McClardy

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Bonus Episode 002 - Becoming a Dad While Losing My Father w/ Derek McClardy · Relatively Functional Dads

• The Boys And Audio: welcome to the Relatively Functional Dads podcast for fathers doing their best and learning every day. We're just three relatives walking through faith, fatherhood, and real life together. That was me. ⁓ experts here, just honest conversations about the wins, the struggles, and the moments that shape us as men and dads. Some days we've got it together, other days we're just trying to get to bedtime, but we keep showing up. And if you're dad... ⁓ In the middle of it too, you're in the right place. Let's journey through this together. Buddy: Hey, there is something ⁓ nobody tells you about when you become a dad. It's that ⁓ fatherhood, it it might be the the greatest, but also the hardest thing you do at the exact same time. ⁓ not just because of the diapers that need to be changed, sleepless nights, ⁓ being touched all the time, all the noises, but because right when you're supposed to kind of feel the most fulfilled and happy and you got everything that you ever wanted in life, ⁓ sometimes life can hand you some really devastating consequences. Sometimes some emptiness, some grief, some unforeseen challenges hit you right in that moment. So ⁓ today, dads, I'm bringing on one of my closest friends, Derek. ⁓ we're going to talk about something that I think a lot of dads they carry silently and it's ⁓ it's grief. It's grief. Not just grieving ⁓ the loss of loved ones, although that that is a a very huge thing and that's what we're going talk about today. But just grief in general. So Derek's going to have a a very unique perspective that he shares with me and it's that ⁓ we both lost our fathers right as we were becoming dads ourselves. ⁓ and because of that stepping into fatherhood it had its challenges. It looked different than we thought it would. It went it went a different direction ⁓ in many ways than how we thought it would initially start. And we've learned a lot two, three years later almost now. So ⁓ this episode, dads, it's not gonna be a tidy episode. It's not gonna be all buttoned up. It's not gonna be like we have All the steps for you to pursue healing if you've experienced this or you know someone walking through this, but what it is going to be is I can promise it's going to be real. ⁓ and I know it's going to help somebody. So my encouragement is ⁓ lean in. if you hear this conversation today and it's helpful or you know someone that you think it would help because they've lost someone recently or they're going through a hard time, ⁓ please share it. Please share it and make sure you subscribe so that you will not miss out on future conversations. But ⁓ Derek bro, we have talked about doing podcasts together for how long, bro, about fishing, about hip hop music, about ⁓ UT sports. It don't matter, but ⁓ we're here talking about our dead dad. So what did you know, dude? But welcome. We finally got a man of color on the podcast. I'm glad you're here, bro. Yeah, man. So ⁓ Derek: I know. I know. Yeah, here we are. Proud to be, proud to do it. Buddy: I the reason why Derek's here is not just because we've gone through similar circumstances around grief and losing our dads and we're gonna we're gonna unpack those stories and how God's worked among it, but he's ⁓ he's just a a leader within his church, within his community. ⁓ he's a he's a friend of mine I've looked up to in in in many seasons of my life since college and ⁓ really proud of how you've continued to navigate ⁓ leading in your church, ⁓ not losing yourself as far as man, you love still bass fishing, you love creating music, you love your wife well, but ⁓ yeah, you stepped into fatherhood and that's definitely changed your life and for the best. And I'm excited for you to share more about your story and ⁓ really, really glad you're here today. So I mean we gotta start with an easy one, probably the most important question of the episode. ⁓ when you're looking at the big three, Kendrick, J. Cole, and Drake, who you got, bro, we gotta we gotta Yeah, we gotta start we gotta start there, bro. Derek: knew you're gonna ask me this. I knew you're gonna ask me this. I knew you're gonna ask this. So, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the easy way out here. So all three of them have have the places where where they're the greatest, where they're the goat, right? So I would say Kendrick is by far the best lyricist and the best wordsmith. Well, I'll say the best lyricist and and concept artist. I would say that Cole is the realest, ⁓ as far as like ⁓ life struggles, you know, like what somebody may or may not be going to. Maybe most relatable, I should probably say. Like most relatable kind of cross culturally and and a lot of people can hear his his music and relate. ⁓ Buddy: Relatable, yes. Derek: But I mean, Drake is obviously well, I would say obvious. I mean, I guess this may not be obvious to other people, but I would say the numbers would suggest and the his reach and his span will suggest that he is is undoubtedly the the most popular, the best, has sold the most, all that kind of stuff. ⁓ most easy listening, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I don't know, man. And then there's eras too, right? Like 2014 Forest Hills. You know what I'm saying? Like I'll there will may never be a better album that I will listen to in my life. ⁓ certainly for the time. Buddy: N now that's true too. That's true too. Derek: of my life and and for that album, you know, ⁓ I would say Drake's probably had the the most consistent longevity. Like, you know, y I think this most recent what he dropped three albums in one sitting or something. Like I think Which one, yeah, I was like You know, and you got a new a a new board. So it's like I don't know when you you got time to listen, but ⁓ but you know Buddy: Yeah. Yeah, I was dude, you listen to the new album? You said which one? I was like, ⁓ bro, I didn't even know there were three albums. ⁓ I I barely do. Derek: ⁓ and I'd say the same thing about Kendrick. I mean, early Kendrick, like Good Kim Bas City, dude, I mean, that's about as good as it gets. I do feel like he's had a bit of deterioration. Okay, a little a bit of atrophy in his catalog. ⁓ but if I had to pick right now, I would pick J. Cole. ⁓ yeah. I there's yeah, there's there's really not a better album in my my opinion than that that 2014 Forest Hills Hills album. That was Buddy: Absolutely. The only right answer. You see you see that, bro? If you w if you're watching on YouTube, the vinyl's right there. I'll never forget you driving me to Walmart to get some earrings so I could pierce my ears at the crew retreat, listening to that album when it first came out. So ⁓ yeah, that's that's goaded. But ⁓ yeah, I mean his recent one too, man. He's just he he matures. He has absolutely matured and ⁓ the fall off is you know, it's Derek: Is he is ⁓ ⁓ Buddy: It's it's everything like when you see an artist, I feel like, who really like has gained the whole world but trying not to lose his soul and seeing that wrestle there. So ⁓ yeah, you you rode the fence pretty hard, but I'm I'm glad you you landed it where it needed to be. So yeah, man. So we're gonna talk a lot about Jesus today. If if you ⁓ you know are not a follower of Jesus or God's confusing to you or you don't you don't really know where you stand with him, I I pray you lean in. Derek: Yeah. That's good. I did ride the feds. Buddy: If you know nothing about hip hop music and the last six minutes made ⁓ no sense to you, I pray that you lean in. So however you find yourself in this conversation, Derek and I are here for that. But hey man, let's ⁓ as we as we kind of unpack again like what it's like grieving ⁓ as a father, as you're becoming a father, and not just any type of grief, but the specific grief of losing the most important man in your life, just tell us a little bit about your family, where you're at now, how you got here. So would love to hear, yeah. Derek: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Buddy: Tell the people about where you're at now and then tell us a little bit just about your dad. Derek: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to, dude. I love talking about my dad. It's it's one of my favorite things to talk about. so my family, what it looks like right now, ⁓ is myself. I'm married to ⁓ the most beautiful girl in the world, ⁓ not up for debate. So her her name is Sarah, Sarah McClardy That's my last name. And we've got one daughter, her name is Rhea, ⁓ and getting ready to be three here in August. And so she is a ball of joy, ⁓ a bundle of light. She is ferocious and fierce. ⁓ she's got a lot of opinions, probably more than Buddy: Why? Derek: than I would think for somebody who's only been on the planet for two years, but she's got ⁓ nonetheless. So, ⁓ but she's as sweet and as kind as her mother is. She's as beautiful as her mother is. ⁓ she talks a lot like her dad, I guess, and and, you know, we'll see what comes of that later on. But ⁓ they're great and And we we s we love spending time together. ⁓ we love taking it easy on weekends and that kind of stuff, which is really cool. and then my mom, she still lives in in Murfreesboro, which is south of Nashville, Tennessee. And ⁓ she lives there. I've got a brother that lives in Cincinnati. ⁓ I've got a sister ⁓ that lives in in Charlotte and ⁓ and then extended family beyond that. And so Buddy: Where you at b birth order with your siblings? Okay. Derek: Yeah, so I'm the youngest. ⁓ I'm the very youngest. Yeah, and then my brother is is older than I am. ⁓ and my sister, she's actually my cousin. I call her my sister, but ⁓ she's actually she's actually my cousin, but ⁓ blood wouldn't make us any closer. And ⁓ she's the oldest of all of us, so Buddy: I ask because as we talk about grief whenever we get there, ⁓ that matters, man. Like like like family of origin, siblings, it it really plays into a lot of it. So yeah, I'll be curious if if if it did in your story. I know it has somewhat in mind. So ⁓ yeah, tell us about your pops, dude. Derek: Mm-hmm. It does, dude. It does. Yeah, man. ⁓ Man, yeah, what a guy. ⁓ my dad was so unique. He was such a unique guy. ⁓ my favorite my favorite story about him or my favorite ⁓ I don't know, unserious thing that he imparted ⁓ on to to me and to us is that ⁓ he taught me how to fish. That one of my earliest memories and one of my earliest videos with him is ⁓ of us fishing. I was like three years old and I caught my first fish and dude you'd have thought that I had won the dang Super Bowl. Like it was ⁓ my goodness, man. ⁓ it was ⁓ yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like dude, ⁓ we're passing it down, man. It's important. ⁓ Buddy: Lost your mind. And now Ray is, I mean, I saw her on the boat with you just the other day. You put a video up. Derek: So yeah, he used to always say he had these little sayings, like he was the king of the dadisms, you know, like if it's free, it's for me, you know, he would say that about everything and ⁓ we always had this running joke. He had a a bunch of different jobs coming up as a youth and into his teen years and stuff and it was always, you know, your dad used to work there, ⁓ or or something like that and so ⁓ He he loved to have a good time. ⁓ he was he could he could play different roles. Like he could be the life of the party if he needed to. ⁓ but the way I I usually experienced him and I would think the most the way that most people experienced him, whether at church or people at our house was just a constant presence. Like he was constant. He was consistent. Like, ⁓ I d I do not remember. I don't remember a a game that I had that my dad wouldn't at. I don't remember a time in my life where he wasn't present. I don't remember Buddy: Mm, mm. Derek: really any moments in in my life where he wasn't around ⁓ in there. Now he may not have always been out front and boisterous and and, you know, ⁓ with that type of energy, but he was so consistent. people would call him a man of peace. ⁓ he was a great listener. ⁓ he had great advice. Even to this day, people still just talk about ⁓ some of the words that Mike Mike gave them and Mike shared with them. So yeah, he's just so consistent. ⁓ like I said, all of all of my memories. ⁓ he was just there. I r I ran college track and field at the University of Tennessee. And like it didn't matter. All he needed me to do was send in the schedule. And it didn't matter. Like him and my mom were there. They Mississippi State, Kentucky, like everywhere. ⁓ that's right. That's right, dude. Buddy: This is pre NIL, so you you weren't making that money. You weren't making that money to send to them to go. Derek: No, I was not. Yeah, they were just traveling, man. ⁓ and he was just in it because he loved us. He that that was it. There was no conditions. Like he just loved us and ⁓ imparted wisdom where he where he any time he could, whenever he could. ⁓ So yeah, man. Love to adventure. Love to have fun. We started this thing called the Adventures Club. ⁓ I'll never forget that until the day I died. We would wake up early on a trip at like six thirty and he would take us downstairs to go look for the coffee, ⁓ where it was in the hotel. And dude, he I would I would s you know, he I would just wait for him to come knock on the door and then we'd get up and go walk down the hallway and take the magic elevator and go look for the cafe, wherever the coffee was. That was the adventures club. and and ⁓ Buddy: Mm. Derek: So anyways, he just loved to have a good time. We loved to travel, all that kind of stuff. Just a really, really special man. Buddy: the the thing that sends out just being present and I I won't go too much about my my dad 'cause really shared a lot of about him, ⁓ in our second episode. And that that's so true about my father. Like, he was kind of quirky, kinda goofy, but one, he wanted to spend time with me. And two, like when I look back, he was always present. And I heard a John Bellian lyric this week. It was a ⁓ present father's better than a perfect dad. And ⁓ I was just like, come on, man. And Derek: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Buddy: ⁓ and we we recorded an episode about, you know, the pressure of being a per perfect parent ⁓ a few weeks back. It's released at this point that that this comes out. But yeah, man, I I think there's so many things that we can get wrong as dads, but then you fast forward ten years, your kids ⁓ more than likely will not remember that, especially if you've, you know, asked for forgiveness and you repair and reconcile and stuff. But what they will remember are the goofy, quirky little things that you do in the hotels. as well as the consistency of just showing up. So that's what we talk about a lot on this podcast, Derek, is like this is for for dads that show up. And ⁓ I love that legacy that he's instilled instilled in you. What else has he imprinted that you're like, man, I wanna I wanna pass this down to to my daughter. ⁓ I wanna be this type of man. Derek: Yeah. ⁓ so the I mean, the biggest and most important is ⁓ my faith in Christ. I mean, them, both of my parents. I I'm speak both this is true of both of them, but you know, obviously we're speaking about dad. he he was just such a great example of a man of God. I will never forget, dude. ⁓ my goodness. We were We were driving home from some event at somebody's house and it was it was getting later and we pulled out like we saw somebody on the side of the road who was broke down. And this is back when, you know, Triple A and and ⁓ like all the nuke kind of things you can do to Uber and everything. That wasn't around. So they were kinda stuck stuck. And ⁓ and so we had pulled over and he pulled out he yeah, pulled over, we got out and We talked to these people and I don't I don't remember what was wrong with their truck. I may have been eight or nine years old. ⁓ but I remember they had something leaking and I had just eaten a neutra grain bar and ⁓ I had a napkin. I was like, Hey, will this help? And Dad is like, Thanks for helping, man. Like, ⁓ it's not, but but thank you for helping, you know. And it was like a g honest but also, you know, true. It's ⁓ or honest but also kind, you know. And so, Buddy: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Derek: But anyways, he he we did what we could and then we drove off and you know they needed a mechanic. But I remember him saying, ⁓ son, we're never too busy to help people. Like, we're never too busy to help people. And it just that it just stuck with me, man. And I was like, I thought about that and I put that in a a vault, and I was like, ⁓ I don't know if I'll ever get married or have kids or whatever, but ⁓ obviously I have, but I want to make sure that whoever I'm around knows. That like that was just something that has stuck with me over the years, and I'm like, that's something that my kids need to know. We're never too busy to help people. ⁓ I was a really rambunctious kid. ⁓ dude, I know, right? Well, I'm talking like a kid. ⁓ yeah, which one? I'm still a kid or still rambunctious, but ⁓ I I was a really rambunctious kid, ⁓ probably undiagnosed ADHD. Like, it was just really hard for me to do do life, and and Buddy: Bro, you still are Yeah. Derek: He would always say, like, I would just try to like, Dad, I need to know the answer. Like, I would ask him if I can go to a friend's house. Could I, could I get this new game? Could I whatever? And he would take so much time to like make these decisions. And he he already was knowing. Like he was already knowing what he was gonna say. But he would dude, he would always reply to me. He'd go, You're not gonna rush me. You're not gonna rush me. He would say, You're not gonna rush me. Buddy: Mind games. He's in control of his household, dude. Derek: Yeah. It's like you're not gonna rush me. And dude, I would it would eat me up, dude. And ⁓ and then now, now that I'm a dad, now that I even bro, even leading a team at work, you know, like leading people at work, it's it's always like, Man, we gotta make this decision right now, we gotta do this, this, this and it's like, you know, like what's the rush? Like what are we what what are we in such a hurry for? Unless it's burning down, you know, like let's take a second thing about think about this and ⁓ so that's something like you're not gonna Rush me, not being rushed, being unhurried, ⁓ being present. That's something that I'm definitely gonna take, ⁓ take from him. yeah, really consistent in church for for our entire life. And I'm so thankful to my parents for that. ⁓ I had a really positive church experience coming up. I loved it. ⁓ my dad made it really fun. He made reading the Bible really fun, he made learning about God really fun. He always found really practical ways to ⁓ teach life lessons and teach lessons from scripture, which is really fun. fun and ⁓ that has has changed my life in ways that I can't even yeah, I could take four podcast episodes to explain just how how deeply I felt that and how much Christ has changed my life per his leadership and his guidance in that way. ⁓ so yeah, ⁓ there's a couple of things that I definitely, definitely will pass down that I learned from him. Buddy: Something I I've ⁓ I aspire to describe my life that sounds like you would describe your dad as is a non anxious presence. Like steady, calm, at peace. A couple of years ago, like those words I probably borrowed it from someone else, but I was like, I'm on a journey of getting there. I'm not there yet. But what an example where you can say like, you know, what would what would pops do? Derek: Mm. Yeah. Mocality. Yeah. Buddy: And that that can help be the barometer. And it's it it is. It's not just as a dad, as as a pastor, as a husband, as a leader in your community. That's that's trickling through, man. So that's a beautiful legacy. That's really, really beautiful. So so share with us a little bit, ⁓ like take us back. When when did you realize, yeah, like I might be losing dad? Derek: Yeah. ⁓ man. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll tell you the realization to the the event was pretty short. So I'll never forget it was it was in August of twenty twenty three and and we had just had our daughter Rea. I mean we had just had her, like I think she was a week old, just come home from the hospital and my parents were actually just there. Like they they had just come down, Buddy: Wow. Yeah. Derek: you know, come to the hospital, everything. fun fact didn't have anything to do with anything, but my sister, her daughter was ⁓ born on the exact same day as Rea. ⁓ they were born like three hours apart, ⁓ which is really unique. It might two or three hours apart was really unique. So my parents they had a lot of traveling to do at that time, but Buddy: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Derek: ⁓ anyways, they had just got done being being with us in Atlanta and they drove back and then I think it was like a week later, ⁓ they FaceTimed us and I was like, ⁓ I I mean, I don't I d at that time I don't even know if my dad knew how to work FaceTime, okay. I was like let alone had he ever FaceTime me. And ⁓ I joined it and my brother and my my sister were on it too, so you know, I knew something serious and ⁓ Buddy: Something's going on. Derek: Dude, I mean he he kinda cut to the chase. He he was like, Hey, I've got pancreatic cancer. And ⁓ as soon as he said that, I knew, ⁓ and I think we all knew, ⁓ and if if you're listening and if you're unfamiliar, you know, pancreatic cancer is really, really, really, really low survival rate. ⁓ really low. And so as soon as he said that, it it hit me immediately. Like it was a fool wave. There it wasn't a ease into it or whatever. ⁓ it hit me immediately. And so ⁓ we kind of talked about, you know, treatment plans and all that kind of stuff and what we're gonna do. And then from there, it was really like the clock started. I mean I mean, you could have pretty much just set a clock for seven weeks and spun it backwards, and that was the time we had left. And so, and Buddy: Was there any signs of sickness or illness that you knew about from him? Derek: No, no, man. ⁓ there w there was not. I mean, there there was some small stuff like, you know, that could have been related, right? Like he had diabetes and the way the pancreas works with ⁓ your glucose and all that. I don't even know. But there that could have maybe been something, but no. I mean it it really snuck up and and the reason he went to the doctor was because he thought that he had ⁓ I think diverticulitis or just like a a kind of a pain in his abdomen. And so it wasn't going away. So he just went to the doctor to get check it out. They did scans and ⁓ I mean, dude, I mean th the first week it was one scan, he went back again and his scans were lit up like a Christmas tree man. I mean, like what a what polyps or whatever they're called. I mean, they were just all over everywhere and ⁓ had it on his pancreas. It had spread a little bit to ⁓ I think his his liver or his spleen and Buddy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Derek: So it was just it had it had spread and spread pretty good. And so, ⁓ anyways, yeah, that was that was in August. and so here comes the the the tough part for me is like ⁓ Sorry, sir, I didn't ask if you could sh if I could share this, but so my wife had a C section and so she she couldn't even drive a car yet. You know what I'm saying? Like she can't lift heavy objects. She and we've got a newborn baby. My wife is in the bed on on bed rest and my dad is four hours away with with pancreatic cancer with a really, really limited time to live. And so I was like all right. You know, like we'll figure it out. ⁓ I and so, you know, we we did our best to try to make it to Nashville as often as we could, ⁓ to go and visit and ⁓ and also being at home when we could. I mean, I think me and me and Ray and Sarah, we might have been in in Nashville for I don't even know. We we might have been there for two two or three weeks there toward the end just and I was just back and forth to the hospital and that kind of stuff and ⁓ so yeah, man, it was about seven weeks ⁓ diagnosis today and he just the decline was ⁓ It was just so sad, dude. It was just so sad. I mean, I I I had to see my dad and and ⁓ you know, just some ways you don't ever want to see your dad. Like, I don't wanna see my dad like that, you know? And and and that was yeah, it was just sad, man. There's really no other way to to put that. So ⁓ yeah, yeah, that was kinda how it happened. And it was really quick. It was super quick. Buddy: Yeah. Yeah. I ⁓ a little bit of a different story, but ⁓ a lot of similarities for myself. So as you know, my my dad battled ⁓ mental health ⁓ significantly his last two years of his life. He had bipolar two disorder. ⁓ there was a a medication change that ⁓ long story short ⁓ triggered him to all types of psychosis, tremors, loss of appetite, can't sleep, insomnia. ⁓ in suicidality. ⁓ so he you know, my my dad, ⁓ shortly after I had Naomi had two suicide attempts, tried to take his life twice in about a six week span. ⁓ and then after that, ⁓ you know, there was two years where they just put him on so much medication that his his ⁓ everything was just so muted. I mean man, like when you talk about not wanting to see your dad like that, you know, 'cause it's it my dad was so joyous, loves Jesus, quirky, But one thing I will say that was an honor that was extremely difficult for me is after his second s attempt of taking his life, ⁓ we didn't know what to do. Mom had to go back to work. No one would ⁓ he either had to be admitted in the hospital, but they only take him for a few days. ⁓ we couldn't put him in any like ⁓ centers. No one would take him because of yeah, he had mental health disorders. ⁓ But he had actually had a suicide attempt in the last six months, so they wouldn't take him. So we were just like out of luck, dude. We looked all over the country. Best we could do was a local place that they would take him for about eight hours during the day, do some outpatient work. It it didn't really help, man. They they did the best they could. ⁓ but he was just so, so far gone at that point with his his physiological health and and things that happened because of the medication change. But I would drive him every morning ⁓ the twenty five minutes to drop him off. And the the honor, ⁓ he would look at me and and he would say, ⁓ hey, I don't really feel like talking today. But I would just hold his hand. And dude, like, I'll it is it is heart wrenching to see the the shell of the man in that moment, but the honor to sit with him in his suffering. I will n I will never I wouldn't trade anything for that man. Derek: Yeah. Buddy: I I wish he never don't get me wrong, I wish he never had to go through that suffering for those two years. But he served me so well for the twenty nine years leading up to that moment so there is these like unique moments where it's like, Okay, this is my time as a man to step into I could never pay you back, but I'm I'm just gonna make the best of a of a terrible situation. What was it like trying to balance that? ⁓ you're you're grieving before he's he's even died. I did that a lot with my dad and I'll share more about my story as we continue to talk, but you're you're grieving this before he's even passed. And you're also trying to be there for your wife. You physically have to be there for your your daughter, and you I mean like you you have expectations from other family members and and you don't have any time to emotionally process because you're physically tired. Ta take me through those those last few days or weeks. Derek: Yeah. ⁓ thank you for ⁓ for just sharing that because that is that is a hundred percent true, man. ⁓ the opportunity to just get to sit with him ⁓ before it was before it was was over is just so so sweet. And you're right, man. There is nothing like sitting ⁓ sitting with somebody and suffering. There's just nothing like it. Nothing more holy, just a thin space between heaven and earth, you know. So it was hard. It was really hard for me. ⁓ so I kind of felt like I had a ⁓ I kinda felt like I had a green, green light, if you will. ⁓ because so one of this is this is my my favorite memory with my dad. ⁓ we grew up Michigan fans for our entire life. My whole family's from Detroit. ⁓ my dad ⁓ he he was Pontiac, went to ⁓ Buddy: Mm. Derek: ⁓ the ⁓ him and my mom went to central Michigan, ⁓ just you know, Michigan through and through. And so we're Michigan fans, football, basketball, everything growing up. And ⁓ we always wanted to go to Michigan football game together. We never got a chance to. ⁓ we were actually going that fall before he got sick, ⁓ or planning to that before we went that that fall. but ⁓ a year before or two years before we got the opportunity to go to a Michigan basketball game. And so we were in Detroit. I think it was 2021. It was 21 or 22. ⁓ and we were going to a basketball game and we drove to the game. It was great. It was just me, him and my brother. The game was great. It was awesome. Got great pictures. Michigan won by a hundred points. You know, it was just a awesome experience. The crowd was live, all of it. And on the way back, ⁓ it was about an hour and a half drive and my brother had fallen asleep in the backseat. And so, ⁓ let me pause and say, my dad was an incredible man, he was awesome. We didn't always have he always taught a lot of life lessons, but we never had we had we had yet to that point had that like, ⁓ all right, man, you know, like this is Buddy: Yeah. Derek: that just that man talk or something. You know what I'm saying? Like the I don't know. I don't even know what you call it. But ⁓ we hadn't quite we were just just beginning crossing that threshold in our relationship. And ⁓ and so on this car ride, dude, I I swear it it was almost like he knew that he was gonna die in two years. Like I swear it was almost like he knew he was gonna die in two years. ⁓ because he like on in that hour and a half he it he told me it was almost like he told me everything that ⁓ he'd either wished that he'd Told me before that he wanted to make sure I knew before he went or something like that, you know? And ⁓ and so we had this car and I was just so taken aback. I was like, Man, I never heard my dad talk like this, you know, like I never it was ⁓ it was just so unique, it was so special. And so, anyways, one of the things he told me, he was like, Derek, there's gonna be some times and some days where ⁓ You're gonna have to do what it takes for your family. You're gonna have to ⁓ sacrifice a lot of stuff for your family. ⁓ and you may not like it, but you need to do it. And he went on to tell me I'm not even gonna share it on here, but just a bunch of stories in his own life where he sacrificed for for our family, like some crazy opportunities that he turned down because it wouldn't have been good for us in schooling, it wouldn't have been good for my mom, his wife, you know, all this stuff. Just dude, never knew. Never knew. Yeah. Buddy: And did it all in secret in the secret place, man. Never like put it over No man. That's integrity, dude. Yeah. And God, man. Like it what a faithful servant, man. Derek: Dude, he never told a soul. I mean, dude, the only people that knew were him and my mom. ⁓ and I'd have never known. And God, that's right. And God. That's right. And ⁓ and so he's just telling me all this and and it it was just like him just giving me this like divine handshake and hug and like passing of a mantle or s he's like, You're you're married and you're gonna have a family one day and there's gonna be some times when you gotta do what you gotta do and ⁓ And I just you just need to know that I'm with you through all of it. And I respect you and I love you. And like that was it. And so, anyways, ⁓ sorry, I just had to kind of take you back to that to get to where to this. And so ⁓ here we are, he's going. And ⁓ and I just knew I just knew that whatever I did in this this season was gonna be the right like I just knew he was proud of me. Like there was never any doubt in my mind that he wasn't proud of me and where I needed to be and that kind of thing. And so anyways, it was really hard to to be in two places at once, you know, to be in Nashville, to be here. ⁓ I my brother and my brother, he was really the main one who was able to be there to ⁓ help take care of my dad and with my mom. ⁓ I was only able to make it up ⁓ I think a couple of weekends and then there at the end, you know, I was there the last couple of weeks that he was alive there in the hospital. When he was fully in the hospital, we were like, Okay, we need to this might be it and so we went and spent the rest of the time with him. And it was just hard, man. It was it was so hard. It was hard to load it all, carry it all. ⁓ I'll be honest with you, because it was so quick, the hardest part of the grief came afterwards. ⁓ I mean, we kinda you know, sometimes cancer's a long battle, long stretch, and so it's weird, you're kinda grieving while you do, you know, go through it. This was like, I mean, it was he was alive and then he wasn't. And so it was kinda like almost a wave of him passing happened two or three weeks after he passed, just because it was so quick, you know, and then it was Buddy: Hundred percent. Derek: just been like a slow burn after that. ⁓ but yeah sitting with him in the in the hospital just on his deathbed it was it was at the the very tail end when he could only get out two or three words at a time. I mean it dude it probably took this Joker sixty minutes to say a full sentence. Like it was you talk about unhurried man like you you better had nowhere to be like you better had nowhere to be 'cause it was taking him a while to get out his thoughts and and just in that time he told me some things. I made sure to write ⁓ down ⁓ and I'll Buddy: Yeah. Derek: I'll hold those dear of what he told me, but ⁓ one of the things he ch he kept saying over and over, he just kept saying, I'm proud of you. Like, I'm proud of you. ⁓ he said, Dude fact that the very first thing he said when he he he's like I I went sat next to him and he said ⁓ he said we love Sarah so much. That's what he said about hit he's like your mom and I we love Sarah so much and ⁓ And he he t he talked about ⁓ Sarah's parents, ⁓ named John and Kathy said and John and Kathy love you so much. Like we love y'all so much. And it was just it was overwhelming, dude. ⁓ and he said said some other stuff and so anyways, it was hard but it was it was good and ⁓ It was worth it because I felt like I had a green light to to because I wanted to be with him more. That's where I that's kind of an underlying thing I hadn't said yet that I ⁓ but I wanted to be with him more. But I I my time was split and I felt guilty about that. I did. I felt guilty about Right, exactly. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Buddy: Yeah. Sure. But and you also don't know when the end is. Like you don't I you didn't you know hindsight it was seven weeks, but like you didn't know in that moment. Derek: Yeah, and I I felt really guilty about that. But in our conversation, he just not that that was it was almost like even as he's dying, he's still taking care of of me, you know, and even emotionally just like even even in in death, he's still just as constant, peaceful, unhurried. Like the only thing he did hurried in his life was die. Seriously. Like that was about it. And I don't mean to be tongue and cheek about that. I kinda kinda be unserious. Like everything else, dude, he was just so peaceful and ⁓ and and constant. And even on his deathbed, he's just ⁓ constant and comforting. So Buddy: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. To contrast, ⁓ 'cause I know some of our listeners who've lost loved ones or parents, ⁓ you didn't have that closure. 'Cause that that's quick, but that's some that's more time than some people do have. And ⁓ that's that's the side I come from. So my story continued with dad suffering from mental illness for a couple of years and ⁓ he for a separate issue went to the hospital and he ⁓ was Derek: Yeah, yeah. Buddy: essentially in a coma. It's kind of a long story short. He bounced out of it, but he was off all of his different sedatives and antipsychotics. And man, he was back to his normal self, joking, hungry again, being his normal self. And ⁓ this is I had just moved from Tennessee to Indiana. My wife's seven and a half months pregnant with our second at the time. so ⁓ I I was not able to get down there when he was in the hospital because he got out within three days and we're like, man, dad's like He's kinda back to himself. Let's be slow to roll him back onto these ⁓ medications. So he did like a few few days in like a rehab ⁓ physical therapy department was doing well and ⁓ long story short, man, he ⁓ he started to feel emotionally a lot worse again. And it was just kind of that moment of despair of like I can't go through all that suffering and ⁓ to not out of respect for other people who've lost loved ones to suicide, like I I won't be graphic, but like he he took his life. So it was very unexpected. And ⁓ obviously like no one's in the right mind to have any type of closure when those type of things happen. And ⁓ so again, I'm I'm staring down having my second kid six weeks prior and I I get the phone call that no one wants that, hey, your dad's missing and we don't know what's happening, and I'm eight hours away. And ⁓ so I didn't get that closure. I I had lifetime of memories, but I didn't get that closure. And ⁓ if anyone's listening themselves or they know a loved one that has ⁓ you know, they've lost loved one to to suicide. ⁓ a a really great book, Grieving grieving a suicide. I'll I'll I'll put it in our show notes really helped because ⁓ what I realized is I was I was kinda grieving two things. I lost my dad and I was also grieving how he died. So that was the complexity for me for like the first three to six months was not just that he's not here anymore, but how could this happen? And just all the things that go into that that I won't I won't go into at this time. Derek: Mm-hmm. Buddy: ⁓ 'cause that's a that's a different episode for another day. But the the the complex ⁓ process of grief, like you said, like even you even when you see it coming or when when you don't see it coming at all and you never thought that's how your dad would die one day, ⁓ it takes months or years. Both of us, I mean, three years, we're coming up on three years, both of us. Right. And ⁓ you know, we're we're we're still we're further along than we were, but but ⁓ gosh, man, not not where I wanna be some days. So Derek: Mm-hmm. Buddy: What I w I'm really curious about is ⁓ you talked about that grief kinda hitting you later on. You're physically exhausted, you're emotionally exhausted. ⁓ was there a a moment Well, let me just start with this. ⁓ you're grieving the loss of your dad as you're becoming a dad. What was that tension like emotionally? Derek: Yeah. It was weird, dude. It was so weird. ⁓ my goodness. ⁓ it was so weird. You talk about juxtaposition. Like I was here is life, like literally, ⁓ physical manifestations, here is life, and here is death. And like you need to be in the tension at ⁓ at all times, you know. It was so strange. ⁓ I felt I felt ⁓ Buddy: Yeah. Derek: I mean guilty is is really the word for being joyful and happy about having a daughter, new life, she's healthy, happy, you know, doing well, all this stuff and ⁓ and being sad about my my dad getting ready to die and then and then passing shortly after and and the effects that that had on my extended family as well, you know, and what that means and what that looks like. And then there's a physical distance too, right? Like we're we're in Atlanta. And I I told you guys the map. You know, my brother's in Cincinnati, my sister's in Australia. My extended family's in Detroit. My mom's in in ⁓ in Murphy's borough. You know, and there's there is not only real travel challenges, but now with a newborn, I mean, we got you know, a year's supply of frozen breast milk that we're trying to pack in a freezer with with ice, making sure it don't spoil, 'cause then, you know, we're we're trying to make sure we got that and all the stuff we need and and a portable crib, the packing p you know, all this kind of stuff. And so, ⁓ and and that stress is real. Like it it is that was real, you know? And then not only that, but I at the same time, here's the stuff that that this is so Buddy: Yeah. Crazy. Derek: I don't even know, but like so the fall I work at a church. I'm a student pastor. So school just got started back in August. And that's when our numbers are the highest. Our, you know, camps are back. I'm preaching every single week. I'm preaching three times a week, every week. ⁓ planning planning, you know, and the fall is when it's like, it's go time, dog. Like we're it's when I'm the most excited about ministry. We're rolling out all the stuff we've envisioning. I'm in grad school, you know, doing doing grad school stuff. ⁓ Buddy: Did did you ⁓ I'm curious did you make time to gr like what did your grief practices look like amongst all that? Yeah. Derek: Yeah, ⁓ no I didn't. Like no I didn't man. and and I'll tell you I spiraled. Like I spiraled pretty hard. and yeah, I I spiraled. That was part of my part of my issue was like I wanted to shoulder everything and I felt like I needed to shoulder everything and be strong and ⁓ be strong for Sarah and for Raya and for my extended family and that kind of stuff. And I was not dealing with some of that in myself and ⁓ And so it got it got tough for me and most of that came from over busy. Like I just I I I mean, I just named all that stuff I was doing on top of, you know, trying to have a free free time and f you know, whatever. And so I just was like I just wanted to do one more thing. Just one more thing. And if I could just do one more thing, I could focus on that and not on ⁓ Buddy: distraction is a is a temporary salve. It doesn't bring healing, but it numbs. And and and some men go to pornography or alcohol ⁓ Some ⁓ it's doom scrolling, some of it's overeating, some of it's workaholic, you but but yeah, man, like sitting alone with your your grief, it is ⁓ it deep work that's necessary and is really hard. Derek: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, and I'll tell you when it changed for me, ⁓ I'm I'm not getting paid by any of these people or any of this stuff, but dude, I read The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry and by John Mark Comer, and then it's the the second book in that, ⁓ Practice in the Way. And dude, I will tell you, on June the sixth, ⁓ twenty twenty four, this is just a little bit afterwards, ⁓ I'm not gonna gonna tell the whole story, but there was there was ⁓ the the ⁓ it hit the fan and we needed to make some real changes in in our life and so I'd I got on those books, I read that and it changed my life, man. Like it completely altered my my life with Christ. It altered my rhythms, my spirituality. And it was only when I started to slow down my life and slow down my ⁓ Yeah, just my busyness that I really started taking time to sit with my sadness and to sit in my grief and for God to actually be able to reveal to me the things he was trying to reveal. It's like this whole time it it did feel like he was trying to share things and get my attention, things that I needed to draw from and learn from the grief process that I was just shortchanging, bro. Like there's so much we learn about ourselves, about this world, about our loved life, about our our our deceased ones. ⁓ ⁓ that we don't get when we just shortchange that grief process. And so, ⁓ anyways, it it wasn't good for a while, but there was a a very distinct shift for me where I started to set down and spend some more time ⁓ with the Lord and and with myself and with my thoughts. And ⁓ I would say that was a main place that I I found time to grief. Another way which ⁓ which is really unique to my experience, ⁓ was through preaching. So like I told you, I love telling stories about my dad, dude. And so if you're if there's any NMC students ⁓ who ⁓ heard me preach between August of twenty twenty three and you know, August of the next year, you heard a hundred stories about my dad. And ⁓ and I did. I felt like that that was the way that I could honor him well because that was the way that ⁓ he wanted to serve and to give his life was for for the Lord. And so to know that his legacy and his story was being shared by way of ⁓ or the gospel's being shared by way of his story. ⁓ I know that he would have loved that and ⁓ and I that was a way I found to honor him and to grieve. You I'm I'm figuring out more about how I feel about it as I'm writing sermons and preaching that kind of stuff as well. So Buddy: I love that practice because you you know, most of the people here are not going to be preaching ⁓ regularly, but they can s they can share stories. And ⁓ I think one of the hardest things to do is to hold space simultaneously for multiple emotions, for grief and happiness, for ⁓ for pain and sorrow, but also like, yeah, I just wanna celebrate this person. I want people to remember this person. So ⁓ when you slow down enough to do that, often those those emotions do come. And and I've learned there's Derek: Right, right. Yeah. Buddy: ⁓ two different forms of of kind of grief. There's active and passive. I don't know if that's official language, but that's how I've categorized it. ⁓ if you don't actively grieve, you'll passively. And here's what I mean. You'll be just driving down the road and you'll see a billboard of your dad's favorite restaurant. And next thing you know, you're irritable with your wife. ⁓ Christmas will come around as it does every single year, and there's certain people that, you know, for whatever reason, they get under your nerves a little bit extra because dad's usually there to help kind of soothe you and he's not. ⁓ there'll be something that your kid does. Derek: Yep. Yep. Buddy: And you're just so happy to be there experiencing that in that moment. And then you just, God, dad, would have loved to have been here. You know, so you're holding those multiple emotions. And when those things do happen, I think it's important to identify it, not push it down and just tell someone. I'll tell I would tell Madeline all the time, hey, I'm gonna just let you know I'm a little sad now because of X, Y, Z. Or I'm feeling a little antsy. I need to go for a run. Or like, don't talk to me for a few minutes. I need a 10 minute break because I'm trying to figure out how I'm feeling. Because I think a lot of men, they have this, this passive grief that comes up. And there's no ⁓ that one, they probably don't know how to identify it. ⁓ we we just had an episode of like a lot of times we think we're angry when we're actually sad. So we don't know how to identify it as sadness. But then then they don't communicate it with someone that they need help or they just need some space or they need grace or whatever. So I'm curious because I do want to talk about some active grief practices that were helpful for you, but passively, how have you learned to deal with that as ⁓ grief doesn't go away, it just kind of changes through the years. Derek: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, man. I'll tell you for me passively, I I personally kind of love it. So I'm I have come to really enjoy moments of random sadness that come on about my dad because ⁓ I would say for me, whenever I I I have those moments before it before it seeps into other areas of my life, I've been able to like grab it and identify it first and set with it. Like there's there's something in this as to why it's come up. And and I've learned to love it, man. There's been ⁓ There's been a lot of moments though. A lot of moments, dude. Exactly what you just said. Driving down and seeing something that reminds me of him. And I'll just like be driving and I'll just, you know, start start crying a little bit. And ⁓ and Raya will ask me, like, What's wrong, Dada? What's wrong? And it's like, I'm just thinking about G pop, you know? ⁓ Buddy: So let me pause you there, What's it been like talking ⁓ talking to ⁓ I mean, she didn't at the time, but what's it been like since then talking about loss with with a a granddaughter who doesn't know her her grandfather? Derek: Yeah. I've got a story that ⁓ I'm trying to discern with the spirit right now if I need to tell or not. But because it is wild. ⁓ it has been It's been tough. So my dad only got to meet her once and he held her ⁓ one time. I'm sorry, two times, once at the hospital and then once at our house. And that was it. I'm very glad because th those are the only two pictures that exist of them two together in the same room. And ⁓ and so that was really special. ⁓ you know, she she is a little bit young and so she she's just getting ready to to turn three. So she's just now I'm able to tell stories and talk about G Pop. But we've got a picture of him in her. room and we always try to ⁓ we always try to make mention of him when we can. ⁓ anytime I say something that he used to say, ⁓ I always talk about him in that way. ⁓ of course when she spends time with my mom, mom will always tell stories about him ⁓ a lot better and more beautifully than I can. And ⁓ and so yeah, you know, she's ⁓ Raya sees the whole world and like mama daughter or like dad I daughter, you know like Anytime someone's a big person and a little person, it's that's the mama version and the daughter, you know. So she's also just learning that dad her her mama and dad have a mama and dad, you know. it's also funny when she learned our first names. I don't know if your kids have learned your first names yet, but Yeah. I know, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's funny like Buddy: Yeah, isn't that funny, dude? That's such a fun stage. Like, wait what? Mm. Yeah, and then they call me buddy. I'm like, I'm dad. Like I'm dad dad. Like don't even call me dad. I'm still dad dad, you know? You're four and a half, sweetie. I'm not buddy. Derek: She she's just coming to consciousness on some of that. And so ⁓ so anyways, but we we I do try to share about about him as often as I can, ⁓ in a in a positive light. So and she she has thought about him and brought him him up in her own ways, ⁓ on more than one occasion, which is really cool. ⁓ really cool to to see that happen. Buddy: I love that. one thing I've ⁓ started to do with Naomi 'cause Naomi does remember a little bit 'cause she was almost two when he passed, but we at least have photos so she can remember seeing that is she wants to hear stories. You know, kids we were talking about this before we started recording. Kids just be stalling, going to bed. So like, you know, tell me a story and she can go s I she can say, Tell me a pop pop story and I got hella pop pop stories 'cause let me tell you about the time that we went fishing and the fish dragged my fishing pole in the pond and I had to go jump in and get it. Let me tell you about the time pop pop took me frog hunting. Let me tell you about so ⁓ Derek: ⁓ the yeah, yeah. Buddy: Yeah, so I just tell her pop pop stories and she loves ⁓ dude. We just I I just rip these stories. That is so going back to your like a practice for you, it's for her to remember, like, I want you to remember the legacy of my dad, but it is so healing and redemptive for me, man. Derek: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, that's so good, dude. ⁓ and that's how that's how it carries on, right, is the stories. It's like that's how we get to carry the legacy. That's the the honor and the privilege to carry on his legacy, both for your dad and for mine. ⁓ Buddy: And and there will be days you have to share the imperfections. You know, like, hey, like dad's going through stuff right now because when I was your age, my dad didn't do this perfectly and it's coming out in a negative way. And I'm sorry, but for the time being where they're at, man, just for them to just see them as the superheroes. Cause my dad was a superhero until you like turn ten or eleven and then you realize, ⁓ my gosh, they're not perfect, right? So I'm gonna let them lay in that. So ⁓ storytelling, what else has been active active practices? Cause practicing the way, ⁓ along with yeah, ruthless elimination or hurry, like Derek: Yeah. Buddy: I've been on those few years. ⁓ just this idea of having practice based discipleship, which is we do not become more loved by God by this, but it it helps us experience God's love. how have you experienced God's love through actively grieving? Derek: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. You mentioned I make music. ⁓ there is an album that I wrote for my dad that ⁓ I I don't know, I truly I'm not saying this to be like super mystique indie artist or something, you know, like I don't know that anybody'll ever hear it. truly don't know that. There's days that I think about just releasing it as raw as could be and then there's other days when I'm like, no, that just needs to stay with me. So it's it's been around for about two years and it's not been released yet and ⁓ I'm not getting any younger so ⁓ the chances of it being released are probably pretty low, but the the process of making that that music, and the ones I've gotten to share it with has been really, really, really healing. and and I would call that active grieving for sure in that way. ⁓ Buddy: No doubt. Derek: Already mentioned the preaching, which which has been great for me, you know, and I would I would like in preaching to for for anyone who does not have who's not a preacher, doesn't have that kind of an an opportunity. I mean, any of the writing a poem or putting it together for for somebody like any of just the ways that you're organizing creative thoughts that in infuse, you know, a s a story about a a deceased loved one, specifically a dad, I think has been fantastic. So, Buddy: Mm-hmm. Derek: I do ⁓ so another act of practice, I always, always, if I ever have a thought or a memory or whatever, I always pause and tell Sarah about it. because just to say it out loud and to speak it. ⁓ because I want her to to remember him too, you know. ⁓ in the sense I mean Right, exactly, exactly. Buddy: Yeah. That's good. Yeah. You have so much more history than her. You know what I'm saying? Like you gotta share that. Derek: That's exactly right. Yeah. And so, ⁓ you know, I always try to stop and pause and share that with her. But also, that's a little bit of ⁓ you know, like we talked about the the passive grief, like I can share that and grab it so that way, ⁓ you know, when I'm a little bit off for the next little bit, there's at least some explanation, like, hey, I'm just kinda going through it today or whatever, you know. and Sarah's got, you know, w our stories aren't so dissimilar, but ⁓ but yeah, I would I would say those two things. You know, I did do ⁓ I did go to counseling. ⁓ I do talk to ⁓ my mom. Like we talked a lot immediately following that. And even that was was a really unique experience. Just really difficult, you know, to like I don't know. It it was just really, really unique. ⁓ you know, but ⁓ Buddy: Understood. Derek: But yeah, so yeah, counseling and and talking with my mom and and my disciplers too. I mean, b dude, I've just had some guys that have been awesome. ⁓ I will tell you, I don't know I don't know where you guys have talked about this or where you've landed on this on the the the podcast, but ⁓ I've got a group of guys that ⁓ I play video games with every Sunday night. All of us are dads and ⁓ we play It's from like after everybody's in bed, we play from ten to eleven thirty every night. Or not every night, every on Sunday night. Yeah, every night every night. on either on Sunday or Wednesday nights. And dude, that that spot has been one of the most healing places, ⁓ for me, dude. It is just Buddy: Dang bro Derek: I think every man needs a ⁓ whether it be a group chat or an Xbox chat or something where you can just like let it go, kinda unfiltered, un you don't need to met her, you don't need to like hold anything back, you can just let it go. Like, dude, there have been there have been many nights that I've been crying on Xbox, you know, Apex Legends, just like, you know, I'm I miss my dad. This somebody on your left, somebody on your left, you know, man, I'm just you know, like I'm I'm serious, dude. Like, ⁓ just going through it. But that that Buddy: Okay. Derek: That group of guys on that game has been ⁓ so uniquely healing, ⁓ so uniquely healing for me. And they're they're two of my my best buddies in the world. And ⁓ so but the really the point of that, it doesn't have to be video games. What I go on a walk or playing sports or whatever. The the point of it is ⁓ a community of guys that I've been able to really share myself with judgment free, you know, and we'd have been able to take that deeper step in our faith. ⁓ I'm sorry, in our well, in our faith, but also in our relationship, un unparalleled, like unmatched, you know, in my life, ⁓ as far as my Buddy: Essential. One, my brother in law or co host Reese will be ecstatic because I'm team like if you're twenty two or older, you should never play a video game again. And this this man this man is definitely on your side. Two, I want to outline for the dads. ⁓ you you have to ⁓ pursue and cre I'll even say create that community before the tragedy happens because Derek: So Listen now, dog. I'll just say Mm. That's great. Buddy: If you don't have that, you can't just be rolling up on a bunch of random dudes playing video games and be like, Hey man, my dad just killed himself. I need to talk to you about it and it and it'd be helpful more more than likely. You know? So, ⁓ you know, community is is not just for you. It's for the s for sake of ⁓ for the sake of sacrificial love of others, but man, there's gonna be times where you need to glean from it. And we we had that. We just moved to Indiana, like I mentioned, so it was really hard 'cause my community in Tennessee knew knew the journey dad was on. So it was just really awkward for me to talk about like Derek: Right. Right. Buddy: Yeah, I just I was trying to defend him and all that. So but I having that community in Tennessee and then ⁓ very quickly here in Indiana for people to walk through that with me as I felt comfortable enough to share that was was gosh, man, I just can't put a price on that. And still to this day is a part of my healing. ⁓ because there's not gonna be generational sin in my household because of ⁓ the effects of not just my dad's sin against me, but just sin in general comes to seek, kill and destroy. Like, ⁓ I I will be freed. ⁓ from that and like my kids are not going to inherit any of that and community God working through community has helped with that. Two other things really helpful. I went on a a 24 hour silent retreat about a year after dad died by myself And hard, dude. Being alone 24 hours in the woods, I hunt a lot too, but this was like no phones, no distractions, like it was hard. But I went to this like middle nowhere diner in southern Indiana and I had dinner with my dad. ⁓ knowing my dad's not there. And I told him everything he missed over the last year. And I'm like weeping in the corners. Ladies like, hey, you want more coffee? I'm like, no, but like I'm I'm good. Like ⁓ you know, essentially just said, Hey, bring me my food and leave me alone ⁓ in a kind way. And ⁓ I I talked to my dad in an empty chair. And ⁓ and I know he can't hear me. There's like nothing weird spiritual about that. It was for me. Derek: Mm. Well Whoa. Yeah. Right. Buddy: And I took out my phone and I showed him pictures of Grayson who was now eight, ten months old at this time. ⁓ I told him about how Naomi loves to dance and sing and and he he's missing out on her her dancing and you would love to see her dancing. I'm I asked him what it's like to be in the presence of God and if be how he feels, you know, like so it was just ⁓ it was exhausting, one of the most exhausting hours of the year. ⁓ you know, but it was I highly recommend that if someone's had a recent loss, go to a quiet place and Derek: Mm. Buddy: And ⁓ and and share a meal with your loved one because ⁓ it it was it was I think expedited my healing months and months and just a couple of hours. Derek: Dude, that's beautiful, buddy. Man, that is so good. I've never I don't think I've heard that. That is so good. That is so good. Buddy: I think my grief counselor, man, he hooked me up with that. He wasn't the best in the world, but he gave me that and God met me in that holy ⁓ diner. ⁓ there's a holy space in the middle of nowhere. Other thing is just looking at pictures, man. I would just sit down and and and for 15 minutes in the morning make myself look at pictures of me and dad. Because some would make me smile, some would make me sad, some would make me angry. But I I had that advice of like, hey, sometimes ⁓ you need to have that structured time to bring your place to higher emotion so that it doesn't overspill because Derek: Yeah. Southern Illinois. Buddy: I was so tired. I had two kids. I was starting a new job. ⁓ I didn't feel like I had a lot of time so I couldn't make that excuse. I don't have time to grieve. And ⁓ so I had to kind of structure it, man. And ⁓ it it was it was helpful. Couldn't do it every day, it's exhausting. But ⁓ those things were were good for me. Hey, let's ⁓ 'cause it's ten fifteen, your boys gonna get to bed pretty, pretty soon. I'm I'm not I'm not a gamer till midnight like you, but I wanna I wanna before I let you just kinda speak overall, ⁓ Derek: ⁓ here we go. Buddy: to dads if you got any final words or just people grieving. I wanna know specifically like what moments were you maybe angry with God or confused with God and how did you what did you learn about the person of Jesus through your grief journey? And what are you still learning? Derek: Yeah. ⁓ so I I don't know that I was ever angry with God. ⁓ me personally. I know that's not everybody's story, but ⁓ I don't know that I was ever angry with God. I would say confused is probably definitely where I sat. And the biggest confusion for me is ⁓ how can I say this ⁓ kindly? I wanna honor my parents well. ⁓ my my parent or my parents were definitely the parents and I was the the child in our all growing up. You know what I mean? And so and even into adulthood that that was just still our relationship, you know. ⁓ especially with my dad. Like he was like, Hey, I'm your dad, you know, I'm not one of your little friends was kind of the the the the feeling. And so ⁓ it was Really that that story I told you about us driving back from Michigan was really the starting point of what I would call our adult relationship. Like, I don't know that I would say we were becoming like friends or best buddies, but like it it was a start of that. And so the part that I just it was really hard for me to get over was like Buddy: Right. Derek: Probably the time that I needed to ask him the most questions was the time that he passed away. Like it was like, dog, I never I've never changed a diaper. Like I don't know how to balance work and and child. ⁓ I Probably the time that I needed to ask him the most questions was the time that he passed away. Like it was like, dog, I never I've never changed a diaper. Like I don't know how to balance work and and wife and child. I Buddy: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Derek: don't know how to, you know, shoulder the load of trying to provide and also mom wants to, you know, work and the tension of working and and kids and that kind of stuff, don't know how to, you know, shoulder the load of trying to provide and also mom wants to, you know, work and the tension of working and and kids and that kind of stuff, you know. I don't know how to ⁓ have convers like how to love my my you know new immediate family well and my ⁓ my extended family well and all this like I don't know how to bridge all these guys like I don't I don't know. I've never I've not done this. And like I don't know how bridge all these guys like I don't I don't know. I've never I've not done this. ⁓ And ⁓ Buddy: Yeah. And the person you would call up's not there anymore, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the person you would call up's not there anymore, man. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Derek: I know exactly. I'm supposed to be calling you and here you are dying. I know exactly. I'm supposed to be calling you and here you are dying. Like, so how am I supposed to and I was just confused and and it was so unique because we were just there. Like I'm I'm serious. Like we were just at that time having conversations on the phone. We're digging a little bit deeper, you know, we were ⁓ crossing over that, you know, he was letting up a little bit, you know, opening his coat a little bit ⁓ and ⁓ and ⁓ making some jokes and hearing that in the third. And so it was like, man, we were getting to Buddy: Mm-hmm. Derek: to that point and here I am, the point I'm supposed to be asking you how to do these things and you're supposed to be walking alongside me, watching me make mistakes, correct it almost like I'm riding a bike again, you know, like ⁓ this is that's supposed to be that season and and and then he's gone. And so It it I was just a little bit confused by that, you know, like it was like it's almost like you made it this long. I would think at least make it to like let my kids get old enough and get on their feet a little bit and then d you know, go about your business. But ⁓ you know, this was the way it happened and this is what what ⁓ yeah, this is what you know, this way it happened and and God has used it how he has used it, ⁓ very powerful powerfully and perfectly. But ⁓ but I would say that that that was one place that was was confusing and and maybe still Buddy: Yeah, because it's it's so easy to say, God, it I could be such a better dad or we could be in such a better place or like you know, like yeah, there's just and and and Jesus is saying yes and amen, and I grieve that and I came to die so that one day there would be no power of of death and sin in this world because that's how I experienced Jesus in in this process was every time I got angry I've just realized this angers God too. Or every time I got really sad of like this this makes God really sad too. And that's how I Derek: Right. Yeah. Hmm. Buddy: I had to I've had I've had a deeper understanding of ⁓ Jesus coming to bring the kingdom of God and how this world is not like we are not this is not the kingdom of God. It's an already but not yet kingdom. Like we see him ⁓ having glimpses of that and we have a desire to help bring that more every day, but ⁓ Man, twenty twenty three was the most broken year of my life. I pray I pray it is. Like and it doesn't get worse than that, 'cause it was that hard where I was like, I don't think it can get much harder. And Jesus is like, That's the that is the reason why I came, so that you won't have to go through this for for the rest of eternity. Derek: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Man. Yes. Yes and ⁓ man. That's so good. ⁓ yeah, I I've got a journal of ⁓ just all the little mini God winks that I I might call it during that season. And and there's a lot of those that that again that I that I could share, but I could not agree more with what you're saying. Like this is this is why I came, this is why I died. And And I think about the Beatitudes, right? And in Matthew, ⁓ Matthew and I think it's Matthew and five where he's talking about like, blessed are the poor in spirit. and I think about being close to Jesus, nearer to Jesus in my brokenheartedness and in my suffering. I think about grieving the loss of of my dad and just thinking I just I just I felt near, you know what I mean? Near to the cross, ⁓ in that moment is like, yeah, death death it sucks. And it's not supposed to be this way. And and that is the whole point, is that you're right, it's not supposed to be this way. And one day when we redeem this whole thing, it will be But I I'll I will say this. One thing that I wish that would have happened. You didn't ask me this, but I'm answering. ⁓ one thing that I wish that I would have f felt more when I was there. I wish I would have had more per p permission to be hopeful in his grief. ⁓ I'll never forget we were we were at the f the the ⁓ the Friday visitation and there was this old lady from church. Everyone's passing by, giving us hugs, shaking hands, everything. And there's this old lady from church. I hadn't talked to her in a month of Sundays, buddy. I mean it had it's been since I was 15 years old, maybe I talked to her. And the only thing she said to me, she came by, she's giving everybody a hug. She gave me a hug. She grabbed my hand and the only thing she said was, at least he was quick about it. And and she left. dude, to anyone like what an thing to say, you know, like what a weird thing to say, whatever. But to me, like it was it was almost like you're right, like Buddy: Wow. Wow. Derek: Thank you. You know, like that in that moment that was what I needed to hear. Was like, you're right, because I'll tell you this, if that have been drawn like what it was, if what it was was like it was for any longer than it was, then I don't know if I'd have made it. I mean, I really don't. ⁓ I'll I'll be honest with you, as hard as it was as I was I've I've I've downplayed it a little bit, but it it was I mean, to your point, exactly what you said, twenty twenty three being the most broken year of your life, I would say that exact same thing. ⁓ I I don't know that I would I'm not, you know, speaking bombastically, but I'm just saying I don't know what would have come of me. And I'm not saying that this happened so that I would be better. That's not the point. But what I'm saying just the way that God worked through it and something that I can give him glory for and the way I see Christ is like I am glad that he he it it was quick, that we didn't have to do a long drawn out seeing him in the hospital back and forth, you know, ⁓ I mean, draining draining the savings of money and, you know, just all of this stuff. Like it was he was quick about his business and he went on home. And ⁓ and that turned out to be a blessing in in some weird ways, you know. And so that was just one way that that drew me closer to Christ, you know, like it in a weird way. It was like, yeah, it just drew me closer to the Lord that He was quick about his business and he went on and went went to be with the Lord and and we've been left with the grief, but but it it is it is what it is, how it is. And so, ⁓ Anyways, that's just one one small little ⁓ and to be hopeful too, like just that that he there is tomorrow, ⁓ and in my belief, like there is a tomorrow in eternity for those who have their faith in Christ. And I I really believe that. Like, and to be honest with you, I don't know how I would have made it through this greet like if I thought this was it, dude, I I don't know how. I don't know how. Buddy: Yeah. Derek, I I I have zero idea how people make it through a twenty twenty three year like we did without without that. I really I said that so ⁓ I think I remember voice memoing you that, dude. I was driving from Tennessee back to Indiana and I remember voice memoing yet, dude. Like I just don't know how people get through stuff like this without God. Derek: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right, man. That's exactly how I feel, dude. Like the if if I felt like this was it, this was the point, this was where it all comes to or something, that would be the the saddest and most hopeless and darkest existence ⁓ there. It would be the saddest point in my entire life. And ⁓ But having the redemptive hope that not only has his life been redeemed and been perfected, you know, ⁓ but that one day two, all of those ⁓ with faith in Christ would also be be per perfected. Like it just brings so much meaning and hope and purpose to to his death. Like he did not die in vain. You know, like not only is his his life with with with Christ for forever, but because of his legacy and the life he lived, like through that now I'm able to carry his story in lieu of the gu or the gospel in lieu of his story to these students and to other people that I get to share about. Exactly, man. Exactly. Buddy: Yeah. It's eternal fruit too, man. He didn't just give you some money for you to, you know, live off of or get you through cop like it is an eternal investment. And that investment is going as you're a spiritual father, as you're an actual father. That's my goal. Like I just want to be where your dad, you know what I'm saying? Like I just I that's where we that's what we're working towards. And however many years God's got us still here. Derek: Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, I want to make it, man. So I and and there's this weird, you know, f First Thessalonians, what is it? It's either ⁓ I think it's five, four, or five, ⁓ and eighteen, where he talks about not grieving like the rest of the world, ⁓ for like like those who have no hope. I felt that, dude, in my bones. I'm telling you, I felt that in my bones. I was earthly sad. And I was spiritually and heavenly excited and hopeful because and it it's both are true. Both can be true. It's like I am sad my dad is gone. I am so glad he is with his heavenly father and that there is hope, that there is life after this one. and that was such a unique like half frown, half smile, you know, ⁓ in my in my life at that time. ⁓ so Buddy: I love it. I absolutely love it. Any final thoughts? ⁓ especially just encouraging yeah, people who might be in a season where they d they don't feel like they have the capacity to grieve because the responsibilities of fatherhood, but but it's here, man. So what would you say to them? Derek: Yeah. Yeah, first of all, let me just say you kind of downplayed our history at the start of this. I just need y'all to know who's listening. Me and Buddy go way back. I'm talking about like 15 years back, okay? And there there aren't many people on this planet. Like I've been a pastor at a few different churches. I know a few people. There aren't many people on this planet that ⁓ I'm I'm closer to, that I've had deeper talks with, that I communicate more with, and that I respect more than than you, buddy. And so number one, I just want to say that. And and just to say too that I would really I would attribute our relationship and our con I mean you mentioned voice memo in there around when attribute attribute a lot of my healing and growth to our relationship and that speaks to the community piece of what we're saying ⁓ for anyone out there who's who may be going through something like this or or has or whatever man you have got to get you some dudes or some girls in your life ⁓ that know you and you know them and you don't have to pull any punches especially especially if you're it professionally in places of faith or where you gotta put on you know we all gotta put on to a certain extent in our jobs or or put on at home where you gotta have somewhere where you're not putting on and you gotta have some people that you are not putting on with. And and that is is is so important and and buddy I I feel that that way about you. ⁓ and I f I know that that is reciprocated as well. But that would be one thing that I would say. ⁓ For sure. And number two, to dads out there, ⁓ bro, anytime I can look at dad and and say you're doing a good job, ⁓ I will. Especially, especially dads who are like who are present, who they're around, they're tr they're trying to do it the right way. You know what I mean? And I don't mean that to be condescending to anyone who's going through it or going through any struggles, but I'm just saying if you are like trying to be faithful to your family, to your wife, you're working hard, you're whatever, and you are also going through some stuff, like I Buddy: Mm-hmm. Derek: I just want you to know that I see you. Like I see you, I hear you, in it with you, you know, podcasts like this, ⁓ faith communities that you're a part of at church and stuff like ⁓ receive from those environments and receive from that ⁓ that we could continue to build and be together and do and do better and do well, you know. So ⁓ yeah, that's what I would say. Buddy: So good, man. The whole point of this podcast is to kind of be a surrogate community ⁓ until some people who don't have one can get into one, or to be a supplement that like puts some vocabulary and words to their shared experiences. So if you're listening to this, one, ⁓ find Derek on Instagram, Derek McClarty, we'll tag some of his stuff. ⁓ yeah, DM him. Derek: Yeah. Buddy: Hit him up if some of this resonates so he can pray for you, support you. Obviously us on Instagram too or email us. ⁓ all of our information will be in this episode. We wanna support you and we wanna walk with you. Until you can find that in a local church, or until you have a spiritual father, or until you can find a group of guys where you can chop it up, because that's me every Friday morning with Reese, with Noah, with about half a dozen other guys, and that's helped me get through this. But I'm telling you, you can't wait until the tragedy happens. And if it's already happened, like the Lord's grace will cover you. ⁓ but it's it's time to to start ⁓ not journeying through this ⁓ alone. ⁓ because it is active work. It is much harder than training for a half marathon. It is harder than deadlifting five hundred pounds, man. Like the work of grief that it'll take you a multi-month or year process is absolutely worth it as it'll bless not only you but the people around you as you pursue wholeness ⁓ found in Jesus. So yeah, ⁓ please comment, please DM us if it's more private or email. We wanna we wanna encourage and pray for you guys. ⁓ Derek man. I love you. I love this conversation. I love what the Lord's doing through your ministry and through your life and through your family. Will you pray a blessing over the listeners? And ⁓ bro, I'm going to bed. Derek: Yeah, yeah. It will be my honor. Let's do it. ⁓ most kind and gracious Heavenly Father, we thank you for all the things you've done for us and all the things you're going to do. ⁓ Father God, you've been with us this evening. you have been all over this conversation. And so ⁓ I pray a prayer of blessing over my brother Buddy, over Reese, over Noah, over all the guys who are responsible for their podcast. God, I pray for all of the dads. in the ⁓ in the listening vicinity who may be listening to this and other and maybe not even just dads, just the listeners of this podcast that they would receive light and r receive truth ⁓ not only from from your word but from your Holy Spirit, God, that they would receive comfort. ⁓ Father God, I pray for anyone who has lost a a a dad specifically God, would you bring closure where there isn't? Would you bring meaning and things that seem meaningless? And would you bring hope to to things and places and feelings that feel hopeless? Lord, would you just reveal more of your gospel truth and the love of your son Jesus Christ? ⁓ there is no individual, there is no one, there is no one who knows loss like you do. There is no one who knows grief like you do, that knows suffering like you do. ⁓ and so it would only make sense for us to draw nearer to you in moments ⁓ that are characterized by those things. And so Lord ⁓ we give you glory and honor. We we seek to honor you with our lives and with our words, with our podcasts, with our unreleased music, ⁓ with our dadding, with our diaper changing, ⁓ with our work, with our workouts. We seek to honor you with our lives, Lord. And so would you be faithful ⁓ to return blessing in those ways however you see fit. and would we see see the the work of your hand as such as a blessing? We love you so much. It's in your name we pray. Amen. Buddy: Amen. Thanks, D.