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Andy Stanley - - REVERB 33_ The Power of Joy in Leadership · Andy Stanley Sermons

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast Reverb, a conversation
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Speaker 1: designed to help leaders go even further faster by digging
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Speaker 1: deeper into this month's topic. I'm your host, Susie Gray.
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Speaker 1: Last week, Andy sat down with Kate Bowler to talk
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Speaker 1: about joy and the role it plays in a healthy workplace.
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Speaker 1: And today we're leaning further into that topic because while
0:23
Speaker 1: joy can sound like a soft topic, a growing body
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Speaker 1: of research suggests that it's tied to things that we
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Speaker 1: all care about, like resilience, engagement, collaboration, innovation, and trust.
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Speaker 1: In fact, Andy, I was actually reading an article from
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Speaker 1: Entrepreneur that put it this way that really stuck out
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Speaker 1: with me. It said, the true power of joy is
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Speaker 1: that it reminds leaders and teams that even in chaos,
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Speaker 1: goodness is possible. Joy reorients us toward kindness, integrity, and
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Speaker 1: mutual respect. It actually goes on to say joy is
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Speaker 1: not optional. It is essential to a life well-lived, a
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Speaker 1: team well-managed, and a company well-run. That's a big promise.
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Speaker 2: I know. And when we first talked about having Kate
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Speaker 2: Bowler on to talk about her book, my initial response
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Speaker 2: was joy, really. And in Entrepreneur Magazine, this is a
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Speaker 2: topic that is bubbled up within the context of leadership
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Speaker 2: and corporate life. And to your point, it sounds soft,
1:21
Speaker 2: but anybody who listened to last week's podcast, you get
1:24
Speaker 2: the impression, no, it's not at all. And hopefully it
1:27
Speaker 2: elicited or helped some of our listeners understand. think about
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Speaker 2: creating space for joy or recognizing it when it happens
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Speaker 2: and then asking the question, what just happened? And how
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Speaker 2: do I get more of that? And I loved, loved,
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Speaker 2: loved the idea that joy is found in the storyline
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Speaker 2: of our lives, not in the busyness of our lives.
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Speaker 2: And when we take time to pull out And sort
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Speaker 2: of recenter around the storyline, not just the task in
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Speaker 2: front of us. That really is where joy is found.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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Speaker 2: And if we don't do that, that moment of transcendence
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Speaker 2: that she talked about, it's not going to happen and
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Speaker 2: we're going to miss it. And then we're going to
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Speaker 2: opt for happiness and happiness depends on events and experiences.
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Speaker 2: And then off we go chasing things that ultimately when
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Speaker 2: they're over, they're over. And anyway, I just I thought
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Speaker 2: it was a fascinating conversation and it's a fascinating book
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Speaker 2: for sure.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely. And why do you think it is, though, that,
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Speaker 1: you know, we all can sense, OK, that's important. But
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Speaker 1: why do you think leaders tend to underestimate joy?
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Speaker 2: I don't think we underestimate it. I think we just
2:31
Speaker 2: never think about it. I didn't. Again, when we talked
2:34
Speaker 2: about having Kate on, I'm like, I don't know. This
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Speaker 2: is a leadership topic. Right. But again, as we read
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Speaker 2: the book and as we considered the conversation earlier, It
2:44
Speaker 2: absolutely is, because there are moments, even in corporate life,
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Speaker 2: where there's this sense of joy. So I want to
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Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about that. And I was
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Speaker 2: tempted just to stay in this lane with her in
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Speaker 2: the interview, but there was so much I wanted us
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Speaker 2: to get to. In fact, I almost stopped her to
3:02
Speaker 2: tell a story, so I'll tell it now. Okay, good.
3:04
Speaker 2: When we were looking for property for our first site,
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Speaker 2: for the church we're sitting at today, North Point Community Church,
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Speaker 2: I was with a gentleman named Howard Bowen, who I've
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Speaker 2: known for many, many years. You know Howard. We were
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Speaker 2: working together to find property. And we visited so many sites.
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Speaker 2: We tromped through the woods. We got wet. We have
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Speaker 2: this funny story about sticker bushes. He was ahead of me,
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Speaker 2: and he was holding back a limb with briars on it.
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Speaker 2: And he moved it so he could move past it.
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Speaker 2: Then he let go of it.
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Speaker 1: Oh, no.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And it came back, went right into my head.
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Speaker 2: And so I'm like, he stops. And I'm, you know, anyways,
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Speaker 2: you get the point.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And it was actually on that visit because we'd visited
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Speaker 2: so many sites and I wasn't, I don't know if
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Speaker 2: that I was discouraged, but I thought this is just
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Speaker 2: never ending. We're never going to find enough property in
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Speaker 2: the area that we want to be. And he said,
3:54
Speaker 2: this is what he said to me. He said, Andy,
3:56
Speaker 2: little context. He's probably 20 years older than me. Very
4:01
Speaker 2: successful developer. You know, he's been there, done that. He said, Andy,
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Speaker 2: every once in a while, you have to stop and
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Speaker 2: look back to appreciate the progress you've made Because as
4:14
Speaker 2: long as you're facing forward, there's no progress. There's just
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Speaker 2: there's just resistance, resistance, resistance. There's lots to do and
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Speaker 2: you can't get to the ultimate thing for the next thing.
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Speaker 2: But when you look back, all of that's been cleared out.
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Speaker 2: And he said, if you don't stop every once in
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Speaker 2: a while and appreciate the progress, you're not going to
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Speaker 2: have the motivation to keep moving forward. Now, he said
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Speaker 2: that in about 15 percent of those words. But that
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Speaker 2: was that was the idea. And that. no pun intended,
4:42
Speaker 2: has stuck with me. I mean, it really has. And
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Speaker 2: every once in a while, as I remember that, when
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Speaker 2: I stop and look back, there is joy. And this
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Speaker 2: is why I so connected with what she talked about
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Speaker 2: in relationship to joy is found in the storyline, because
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Speaker 2: the past is the storyline. Now, there's things in our
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Speaker 2: past that don't elicit joy, right? But when we think
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Speaker 2: about our careers or even organizational life where we have
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Speaker 2: made progress or built something or developed something, looking back
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Speaker 2: and thinking through all the things that had to happen
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Speaker 2: and all the successes and navigating the failures to get
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Speaker 2: to the place where we are today, it elicits appreciation
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Speaker 2: and gratitude, which she said basically is connected to joy.
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Speaker 2: So looking ahead doesn't necessarily bring joy. Even the things
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Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to, But as I think about looking back,
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Speaker 2: but that requires time and I have to discipline myself
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Speaker 2: to do that. But for me, that's one of those
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Speaker 2: things that creates the capacity or I should say the
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Speaker 2: potential for a moment of joy, that transcendent sense of
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Speaker 2: wow and peace. All things, you know, things are things
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Speaker 2: are good, at least, you know, momentarily in the world.
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Speaker 2: So do you can you relate to that?
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Speaker 1: I mean, absolutely. And I really resonated with her talking
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Speaker 1: about creating space. Because life is meeting to meeting to
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Speaker 1: meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, you know, during
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Speaker 1: the workday and creating even, as you said, even if
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Speaker 1: it's 10 minutes to just, and whatever that is, it
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Speaker 1: can kind of connect you back to that storyline is
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Speaker 1: something that's going to allow you to push forward. And
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Speaker 1: I definitely resonate with that. I mean, whether it's, you know,
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Speaker 1: just my husband works in the same building and whether
6:32
Speaker 1: it's just grabbing a quick cup of coffee and popping
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Speaker 1: in to say hi or whatever it is, just that
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Speaker 1: feeling of like, Like there's my story. It allows you
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Speaker 1: to move forward with whatever's ahead in your day. So
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Speaker 1: I really did resonate with that idea. But it's, you know,
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Speaker 1: being intentional about instead of this 10 minutes I have, oh,
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Speaker 1: I need to respond to those six texts I just got.
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Speaker 1: It's can I create that time and discipline myself for that?
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Speaker 2: The other moment I didn't want to interrupt her is
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Speaker 2: Sandra's family has about an 80-acre farm in South Georgia
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Speaker 2: or Middle Georgia, we would call it, down by Dublin
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Speaker 2: where they live. And every Thanksgiving, the whole family gathers.
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Speaker 2: That's where we have our Thanksgiving. We go on Friday.
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Speaker 2: Everybody has their family Thanksgiving, and we show up on Friday.
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Speaker 2: And there's two little ponds, and it's a pasture. And
7:20
Speaker 2: it's not huge, and it is not fancy. And every Thanksgiving,
7:26
Speaker 2: as we've already eaten and, you know, the day's moving on,
7:29
Speaker 2: this is so weird. I go down toward one of
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Speaker 2: these ponds and lay down in the— it' s not tall grass
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Speaker 2: because he mows it before we all get there. Cause
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Speaker 2: everybody's just kind of chilling. Yeah. And those moments are
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Speaker 2: just a hundred percent joy. I don't, it is, it
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Speaker 2: is somewhat transcendent. There's just a overwhelming sense of peace,
7:50
Speaker 2: but again, family is story. And those, those Fridays kind
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Speaker 2: of connect all of us. And again, there's, we have
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Speaker 2: all the same stuff. Every family has, I mean, there's
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Speaker 2: just stuff, but something about that Friday and especially if
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Speaker 2: the weather's good and, I can just lay down on
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Speaker 2: the grass for 10 minutes and stare up at the sky.
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Speaker 2: It's just joy. So I do think there are ways
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Speaker 2: that we can chase it and find it. And it's
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Speaker 2: so necessary. I think you've said it. It's recentering. And again,
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Speaker 2: it's part of the storyline of our life. And I
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Speaker 2: just thought that one idea in her book and in
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Speaker 2: that discussion, just gave me, I think it tightened the
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Speaker 2: context for finding joy and not maintaining it like all
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Speaker 2: the time. It's not that, but enough of those moments,
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Speaker 2: you connect enough in those moments and you keep moving forward.
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Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's before or after, but
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Speaker 2: it is so closely associated with gratitude. And then to
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Speaker 2: what she said about when you do things for others,
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Speaker 2: the other, I think I might've mentioned this on the podcast.
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Speaker 2: One of the, it's even still emotional to talk about,
9:01
Speaker 2: which is another component of this, Every year, our team
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Speaker 2: here goes and just does a work project for an organization.
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Speaker 2: And years ago, we built a playhouse in the backyard
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Speaker 2: of a little girl who had cancer. And I am
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Speaker 2: not a good builder or painter, but we built it
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Speaker 2: in an afternoon while she was gone with her family.
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Speaker 2: And have I told this story? Yeah, you did the
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Speaker 2: big reveal. Yeah, yeah, I've told it before. But even remembering...
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Speaker 2: the look on her face and remembering that afternoon still
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Speaker 2: brings me joy. But again, it's the trajectory and it's
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Speaker 2: the story part of my life. And it was that
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Speaker 2: selfless day where there was no takeaway, except here I
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Speaker 2: am telling the story because the joy associated with that
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Speaker 2: moment carries with me as opposed to, I don't have
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Speaker 2: any stories to tell about things I've purchased or cars
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Speaker 2: I've traded. It's a whole different thing. Those are the
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Speaker 2: kind of happiness moment happiness things. So I think the
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Speaker 2: takeaway for leaders is we have to find a way
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Speaker 2: to string those together, to find, find those moments or
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Speaker 2: create space for those moments because it is, it, it's
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Speaker 2: like jet fuel to the soul.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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Speaker 2: In the busyness of life. So anyway, So those are mine.
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Speaker 2: You have any, do you ever have joy, Susie? Do
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Speaker 2: you ever, you ever have joy?
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Speaker 1: You know, I, I really struggle with joy.
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Speaker 2: No, I. What brings you joy?
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Speaker 1: Oh gosh. So many things. I mean, you know, being
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Speaker 1: with my kids, actually things that we do as a team,
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Speaker 1: there's certain things that we do in certain rhythms we
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Speaker 1: have that I like see it on the calendar and
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Speaker 1: I'm like, and it, it, It brings me joy. It's
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Speaker 1: not just I like to do it or I enjoy
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Speaker 1: doing it. It's joyful and I look forward to it.
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Speaker 1: And it connects with something that matters to me with
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Speaker 1: people I care about. I mean, really what you just
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Speaker 1: described with that little girl and building that house was
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Speaker 1: the joy you saw in her connected to your storyline.
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Speaker 1: And now she's in your storyline. And I think that
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Speaker 1: that is what these moments, whether it's with the team
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Speaker 1: or with my family, with my kids, especially with my husband, Jason...
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Speaker 1: you know, connects to that storyline and it propels you
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Speaker 1: forward because it's like, it's coming. And I think Kate's
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Speaker 1: point about recognizing when that happens so that you can
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Speaker 1: have that anticipation and look for it. The interesting thing though,
11:27
Speaker 1: got to go on back to, it's so important as
11:29
Speaker 1: a leader, it's actually so important for a team that
11:33
Speaker 1: that leader leads. There was a Forbes article that made
11:36
Speaker 1: a direct connection between a leader's presence and Yeah. Yeah.
11:58
Speaker 1: That's a really strong claim because that basically says, as
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Speaker 1: a leader, not only is it nice to have for
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Speaker 1: you to create these moments and find and connect to
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Speaker 1: your through line and your storyline for joy, but it
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Speaker 1: actually is critical for those you lead to do that.
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Speaker 1: Have you seen that play out?
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Speaker 2: Yes. And I'm so glad you brought that quote because
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Speaker 2: one of the things that we do at the beginning
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Speaker 2: of really every meeting I'm a part of, whether I'm
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Speaker 2: leading it or not, this is just in the culture
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Speaker 2: of our organization, is we tell stories. And we have
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Speaker 2: an agenda and we've got numbers and dashboards and scorecards
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Speaker 2: and scoreboards, all the corporate stuff. But for us, the
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Speaker 2: win in an organization is life change. So we thrive
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Speaker 2: on the stories of life change. And even in our
12:43
Speaker 2: most corporate moments, even in our board meetings, when you
12:48
Speaker 2: start with a story or stories of life change, It
12:51
Speaker 2: elicits joy. It's so emotional. And suddenly there's this transcendence
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Speaker 2: of we're lifted out of the numbers, whether they're going
12:57
Speaker 2: up or down or flat or whatever it might be.
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Speaker 2: And to think that we did something that created that
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Speaker 2: kind of change, a family restored, a prodigal that comes home,
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Speaker 2: a father that says, hey, I'm going to take my
13:11
Speaker 2: family responsibility more seriously, whatever it might be. You know,
13:15
Speaker 2: everybody in the room has, to your point, there's a
13:18
Speaker 2: collective sense of both gratitude and enjoy life. But again,
13:21
Speaker 2: that's the storyline of our organization, right? This is in
13:26
Speaker 2: line with what we came to do and why we
13:27
Speaker 2: came to do it. And then we dive into the
13:30
Speaker 2: numbers and all the problems and, you know, all the stuff.
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Speaker 2: So I think even within organizational life, finding the wins,
13:38
Speaker 2: allowing there to be time for stories. And honestly, I've,
13:42
Speaker 2: I've sat in meetings where I've thought, okay, enough stories.
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Speaker 2: I have seven things. We got to get to the stuff,
13:48
Speaker 2: but you know, that's generally a mistake, but the stories
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Speaker 2: that elicit the joy actually galvanize us around. Here's what
13:57
Speaker 2: we came to do.
13:58
Speaker 1: So whatever is the team.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Whatever we're about to talk about, it's got to
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Speaker 2: create more of that. Um, So, again, even other people's
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Speaker 2: joy in some ways is contagious. But that's my responsibility
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Speaker 2: to keep that front and center because my tendency is, hey,
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Speaker 2: let's get busy. We've got stuff to talk about. Here
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Speaker 2: comes Sunday.
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Speaker 1: But, you know, I actually think that that's very common
14:17
Speaker 1: for leaders to look at their team and be like,
14:18
Speaker 1: you know what? We're doing fine. We're hitting our goals.
14:21
Speaker 1: We're hitting our numbers. Everything is good.
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Speaker 2: There's no joy in numbers.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's not. And they think, oh, I don't
14:27
Speaker 1: need to worry about how they feel as long as
14:29
Speaker 1: they're performing.
14:30
Speaker 2: Which is a huge, huge miss.
14:35
Speaker 1: Because researchers actually know that that line of thinking can
14:38
Speaker 1: unintentionally create what they call a joy gap. which is
14:41
Speaker 1: a gap between what people hope to experience at work
14:45
Speaker 1: and what people actually experience at work. And why do
14:48
Speaker 1: you think that there's so many leaders that unintentionally create
14:51
Speaker 1: that gap of what people hope is good they're going
14:53
Speaker 1: to experience at work and actually experience it?
14:55
Speaker 2: Why are we unintentionally?
14:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:56
Speaker 2: I just think it's because we're not intentional about what
14:59
Speaker 2: we're talking about. And I am, you know, no one
15:02
Speaker 2: has accused me of being a joyful leader, Susie.
15:06
Speaker 1: Right.
15:06
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been accused of other things, but that,
15:08
Speaker 2: in fact, and I know I've told the story before,
15:10
Speaker 2: but years ago, early in our organization, I decided to
15:13
Speaker 2: quit drinking coffee. I thought you drank.
15:16
Speaker 1: So much coffee you went to different Starbucks, so those
15:18
Speaker 1: workers didn't know how much to drink.
15:19
Speaker 2: They didn't even have Starbucks back then, I think.
15:20
Speaker 1: Oh, this is before that.
15:22
Speaker 2: Oh, this is way back. So I decided I got
15:24
Speaker 2: to get off coffee. But the problem was I made
15:26
Speaker 2: coffee taste like a donut, so it was so bad.
15:28
Speaker 2: In fact, I would tell people, they would say, oh,
15:31
Speaker 2: I don't like coffee. I'm like, let me fix it
15:32
Speaker 2: for you.
15:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me try. You like donuts?
15:33
Speaker 2: You'll like this.
15:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:35
Speaker 2: So I decided to quit drinking coffee. So one day
15:37
Speaker 2: I come in and Julie Arnold, you know, remember Julie,
15:40
Speaker 2: she came in and she said, Andy, I need to
15:42
Speaker 2: tell you something on behalf of the team. I said, what?
15:44
Speaker 2: She said, we want you to start drinking coffee again.
15:47
Speaker 2: She said, you're such, you're such a grouch. When I got,
15:50
Speaker 2: you know, we had that kind of relationship. You're so grouchy.
15:52
Speaker 2: That's all I needed to hear. I was back.
15:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. You're like, don't ask me twice.
15:56
Speaker 2: But the point is, The leader's tone sets the tone.
16:00
Speaker 2: The leader's enthusiasm sets the tone. You know, it's awkward
16:03
Speaker 2: to be more positive or more enthusiastic than your leader.
16:07
Speaker 2: That's kind of the lid. And as one of my
16:10
Speaker 2: mentors said years ago, the most important thing to bring
16:12
Speaker 2: to your team is your energy. Yeah. So, you know,
16:15
Speaker 2: all of that goes along with, okay, am I not
16:18
Speaker 2: a joyful personality, but do I create the capacity or
16:23
Speaker 2: the space or the context for joy and to be
16:27
Speaker 2: experienced with the team as we talk about what we're
16:29
Speaker 2: doing and why we're doing it and the results of
16:31
Speaker 2: what we're doing as it relates to other people. And
16:34
Speaker 2: regardless of what industry a person's in, whatever they're selling
16:38
Speaker 2: or service they're providing, on the other side of that product,
16:42
Speaker 2: on the other side of that service are people. And
16:44
Speaker 2: to the degree we can connect the dots between the
16:46
Speaker 2: joy or the health or the financial security or the
16:50
Speaker 2: whatever it is or the toys or the safety that
16:53
Speaker 2: we bring other people, Again, there's the opportunity to connect
16:57
Speaker 2: those dots. And that's the storyline of the company, the profession,
17:00
Speaker 2: the career, whatever it might be. But to your original question,
17:04
Speaker 2: we unintentionally don't do this because we don't think about
17:07
Speaker 2: it and we're not intentional. And honestly, even preparing for
17:10
Speaker 2: my conversation with Kate was a little bit convicting because,
17:14
Speaker 2: you know, I miss those cues sometimes. So I don't
17:17
Speaker 2: think you do. You are a naturally joyful person.
17:21
Speaker 1: I mean, I enjoy life. And, you know, remember when
17:24
Speaker 1: we had Arthur on the first time, Arthur Brooks, we
17:28
Speaker 1: had taken that test. Are we mad scientists? Are we
17:30
Speaker 1: a poet? And I was a cheerleader.
17:32
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember that. Yeah.
17:34
Speaker 1: And I.
17:34
Speaker 2: You are a cheerleader.
17:36
Speaker 1: I mean, I.
17:37
Speaker 2: In fact, everybody knows when I met you, you were
17:39
Speaker 2: literally a cheerleader.
17:41
Speaker 1: I actually was a cheerleader.
17:42
Speaker 2: That's true. In ninth grade or what?
17:44
Speaker 1: Ninth grade? Ninth grade.
17:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:45
Speaker 1: I wasn't. Yes, I was a cheerleader in high school.
17:47
Speaker 1: I think I'm naturally wired that way. And there's positives
17:50
Speaker 1: and negatives to every wiring. But I think regardless of
17:53
Speaker 1: your wiring, being able to say, hey, this is important
17:55
Speaker 1: and I'm going to figure out a way to get
17:57
Speaker 1: it or to create space for it in my team.
18:01
Speaker 1: And as an organization, I think that's so important. And
18:03
Speaker 1: I actually liked Kate's discussion that she had with you
18:07
Speaker 1: about toxic positivity, because sometimes people confuse joy with positivity.
18:12
Speaker 1: And that is really not the same or a good thing.
18:16
Speaker 1: In fact, that same article that I mentioned earlier, made
18:19
Speaker 1: it clear that real joy does not project false cheerfulness,
18:24
Speaker 1: ignore pain, or accept fear-based control. And I think that
18:28
Speaker 1: that's so important because leaders have got to think about
18:31
Speaker 1: what is the difference between like an healthy, honest, but
18:35
Speaker 1: upbeat culture and just fake positivity.
18:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. It goes back to something Jim Collins reminded us
18:41
Speaker 2: of on like 25 or six years ago. I can't
18:44
Speaker 2: believe it's been that long that you have to face
18:46
Speaker 2: the brutal facts, but you can face the brutal facts
18:49
Speaker 2: and build from there back to being positive with the
18:52
Speaker 2: brutal facts in mind.
18:54
Speaker 1: Hopeful and positive about the future.
18:55
Speaker 2: And again, I said this on the podcast with Kate,
18:58
Speaker 2: the fact that Kate is able to do that with
19:00
Speaker 2: her diagnosis, she didn't go into detail and that wasn't
19:02
Speaker 2: my story to tell, but it, you know, it is
19:06
Speaker 2: not a casual thing that she is having to navigate
19:09
Speaker 2: that kind of hangs over her head every single day
19:11
Speaker 2: of her life, you know, as a wife and a mother.
19:14
Speaker 2: And yet she really is an extraordinarily joyful person, which
19:19
Speaker 2: takes away all of our excuses and, When you're dealing
19:23
Speaker 2: with a medical situation like she is, you cannot ignore
19:26
Speaker 2: the brutal facts. They are with you every single day.
19:30
Speaker 2: And yet she has found joy in the midst of that.
19:33
Speaker 2: And again, that's why she's one of the most inspiring,
19:36
Speaker 2: inspiring people that I know. And we just love her
19:39
Speaker 2: to death.
19:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, she really is amazing. Before you joined the call,
19:43
Speaker 1: I was like, I just want to hang out with you.
19:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, she has that effect on people.
19:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So, Andy. as we wrap up, one
19:51
Speaker 1: of the simplest, most practical ideas that has showed up
19:54
Speaker 1: in all of this research on this topic of the
19:56
Speaker 1: connection between joy and the workplace is is the idea
20:00
Speaker 1: of recognition, just noticing what's going right and calling it out.
20:05
Speaker 1: In fact, Entrepreneur Magazine in that article says, catching people
20:09
Speaker 1: doing things right strengthens engagement. So it's talking about joy,
20:13
Speaker 1: but it says not only does recognition foster joy, but
20:16
Speaker 1: it strengthens engagement. Why do you think that's such a
20:18
Speaker 1: powerful lever for leaders?
20:20
Speaker 2: Well, I think in the workplace, especially because we're moving
20:24
Speaker 2: so quickly, people don't know that anybody is paying attention
20:28
Speaker 2: to what they're doing, right? Yeah. And I'm not asking
20:31
Speaker 2: for necessarily a response to this, but, you know, even
20:34
Speaker 2: on a Sunday after I get up and pour my
20:36
Speaker 2: heart out, you know, and these, you know, I've worked
20:38
Speaker 2: all week and I did my talk. I get very
20:42
Speaker 2: little feedback on sermons. Now, you know, Twitter used to
20:46
Speaker 2: be helpful. I can see how I did, you know,
20:47
Speaker 2: but everybody's off X now, you know, that's kind of
20:50
Speaker 2: gone away. It's, you know, so even as confident as
20:54
Speaker 2: I am in what I do and as many, you know, comments,
20:59
Speaker 2: positive comments as I get, the lack of immediate feedback,
21:05
Speaker 2: even I feel that. So if I feel that, I mean,
21:09
Speaker 2: the average person doing the average job that most people
21:12
Speaker 2: don't even know, because they're not doing it in public
21:13
Speaker 2: in front of, you know, hundreds or thousands of people.
21:16
Speaker 1: Right.
21:16
Speaker 2: So when we stop to notice or celebrate what someone
21:21
Speaker 2: has done, It definitely elicits joy in them, if nothing else. Oh,
21:25
Speaker 2: somebody noticed, and somebody noticed my hard work, and somebody
21:30
Speaker 2: noticed how my work connected the dots between what everybody
21:33
Speaker 2: else is doing here to move the whole organization forward.
21:36
Speaker 2: It's a really big deal. So going back to something
21:38
Speaker 2: I said earlier, when we tell stories at the beginning
21:40
Speaker 2: of staff meetings, oftentimes the stories transition into us bragging
21:47
Speaker 2: on each other. Yes, I've seen it. Or talking about
21:50
Speaker 2: other staff members who... Because of what they did, these
21:53
Speaker 2: stories became a reality, which sometimes results in, you know,
21:57
Speaker 2: Diane saying, hey, you want to write them a note?
21:59
Speaker 2: I'm like, absolutely. Oh, or I'll hear a story and say, Diane,
22:02
Speaker 2: will you get me their cell phone number? I want
22:04
Speaker 2: to text them. I hadn't heard about that. So catching
22:07
Speaker 2: people doing things right, even though, you know, in most cases,
22:10
Speaker 2: they're just doing their job. And this is important to
22:14
Speaker 2: point out the, not just you're doing a good job,
22:17
Speaker 2: but the significance of the job that they do well. Again,
22:21
Speaker 2: that at least creates the context or the potential for
22:24
Speaker 2: them to have that momentary sense of joy because it's
22:27
Speaker 2: somewhat transcendent. Somebody noticed it made a difference. What I
22:31
Speaker 2: do matters. Again, it's up, up, up, up and up.
22:34
Speaker 2: So I do think that's the connection. Again, catching people
22:37
Speaker 2: doing things right to the point of the article. It
22:40
Speaker 2: does potentially elicit joy and it definitely strengthens engagement because.
22:45
Speaker 2: Somebody noticed, and clearly what I'm doing is making a difference.
22:49
Speaker 2: I want to make more of a difference. I'm going
22:50
Speaker 2: to be more engaged. And the opposite is true. When
22:53
Speaker 2: we don't recognize or reward people doing things right, the
22:59
Speaker 2: problem with that is then essentially we're taking people for granted.
23:02
Speaker 2: And that feels, even if you like what you do,
23:05
Speaker 2: that's just a withdrawal. And again, I want to be
23:08
Speaker 2: careful here. I feel that sometimes even in what I do,
23:11
Speaker 2: but hopefully, you know, I'm mature enough to keep moving
23:15
Speaker 2: on and people don't have to stop and pat me
23:16
Speaker 2: on the back every time they see me. The point is,
23:19
Speaker 2: if I feel that at this season of my life,
23:23
Speaker 2: that is sitting there potentially in the heart or soul
23:25
Speaker 2: of every employee in every organization. And we cannot catch
23:30
Speaker 2: people doing things right too often. We can't celebrate them
23:34
Speaker 2: too often. And to the point of the article is,
23:36
Speaker 2: Each one of those deposits creates the potential for a
23:39
Speaker 2: moment of joy and appreciation and gratitude. And why not
23:43
Speaker 2: do as much of that as possible, right?
23:45
Speaker 1: Absolutely, 100%.
23:46
Speaker 2: Suzy, you're doing a great job.
23:48
Speaker 1: Thanks, Andy. So are you. You're doing a great job.
23:50
Speaker 2: You're the best host I've had in years. since you started.
23:54
Speaker 1: Wow. No, but that point really is the takeaway for leaders.
24:01
Speaker 1: Like this is, that is something they can start doing
24:03
Speaker 1: today that can practically bring joy into the organization and
24:09
Speaker 1: foster deeper engagement. Yeah.
24:11
Speaker 2: And last thing, this works at home.
24:13
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
24:13
Speaker 2: Catch your kids doing things right every time, because when
24:17
Speaker 2: you catch them doing something wrong, that That's a big withdrawal.
24:19
Speaker 2: That's a big withdrawal. Yeah, yeah. But again, we just assume,
24:22
Speaker 2: take things for granted.
24:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, but such good advice. Well, Andy, that is all
24:26
Speaker 1: the time we have today. Thanks as always for diving
24:29
Speaker 1: deeper on this month's topic. And to our listeners, thanks
24:32
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of Reverb. If you found
24:35
Speaker 1: it helpful, be sure to leave a review or pass
24:37
Speaker 1: along to another leader. And as always, subscribe wherever you
24:40
Speaker 1: listen and check out andystanley.com slash podcast for more resources
24:45
Speaker 1: to help you go even further faster.