Latest / The You Project / #1684 Walking Each Other Home - Nikki Morrison

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#1684 Walking Each Other Home - Nikki Morrison · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'll get at like com from another in storming the show,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook over there at Bloody typ Central High
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Cook High, Harps, how.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Are you very good? Very good?
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Thanks?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: What's bloody going on? It's maybe two weeks post India?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Have you still got the aura? Have you still got
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the vibe? Are you still? Are you still at one
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: with all things?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I definitely do. But I wouldn't mind sitting on that
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: mountain again. I would like to be up there, you know,
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: just every few days, just a morning on the mountain.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Well, the closest thing that I know personally to an
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: enlightened being has joined us on the show.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: So if you want to get a little bit of
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: your zen and a little bit.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Of your calm back. In fact, I didn't think of
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: this till right now, but Nicki Morrison.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: High, Hey, how's it going?
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Oh good, really good? Thank you. I didn't tell you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't tell you this, But if you tell Nikki forgive.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: I know our listeners no, but.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, so give her the snapshot of what happened while
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you were there on real.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Oh so I went on a seven day retreat in
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: the Himalayas. Oh yeah, Oh it was amazing. My friend
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Jim Fuller, he runs the retreat. He did some facilitated stuff.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: The first two knights were at a temple nestled at
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: the bottom of the Himalayas in a village called Nagga
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: run by the religious family. And then Papu, who is
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the son of Fama who runs the temple, he led
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: our tour. We did some facilitated stuff. It was it
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: moved me. It was amazing sitting above the clouds for
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: seven days and at them.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: Like during the retreat, with the periods where you had
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: to be silent or was there it was just time
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: out from your normal life.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So day four that all of our hiking was
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: in silence. So that was a really really spiritual and
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: deep day. And then we at the probably the midpoint
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: of that day, we did a ritual, a letting go
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: ritual where we burned the things that we didn't that
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: we wanted to leave on the mountain and it was
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: there were tears and a couple of other things happened
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: up there, but it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Was a powerful action.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It's powerful. Nick changed me. Like the things I burned
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I carried around for forty years didn't come home.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: But when you go with that intention of I'm here,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: I'm icknowledged, acknowledging them, and now I'm ready to release them.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. And I didn't expect that.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: It was in the moment that right before Papu lit
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: the match and I and I put the paper onto it.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: In that moment, I just closed my eyes and I
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: and I expressed gratitude for whatever the reason that i'd
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: held that, for whatever purpose it served, and I just
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: felt like that was a you know, those things that
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: happen and you, not from you kind of thing. I
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, that was interesting. I didn't plan to
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: And I think so often what comes out of us
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: is what needs to come out of us. When we're
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: just open and in a space where there is a
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: chance to be quiet and still and out of our
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: normal daily life, then those things had the chance to surface. Amazing,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: well done, Thank you, thank you beautiful.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: You are quite different.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I like, well, not I like that because you're different,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: but I like it for you because it seems. Spirituality
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: is an interesting construct or an interesting thing. Sorry I
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: should sound less like a scientist, but it's an interesting
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: thing because it's a really slippery thing. It's like it's
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: trying to define spirituality in a meaningful way that doesn't
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: sound cheesy or bullshitty. It's pretty hard, yes, but it's
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: like there's something about your energy that's quite different. And
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: it's not that it's not that you've had to shift
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: in attitude, although that may have happened as well. But
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: you know, when you see someone and there's something's changed
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: about their mind so they're thinking a bit differently. It's
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: very cognitive, it's very cerebral, and you know, but then
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: there's sometimes something else happens and it's like, oh yeah,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: and like, I'm not pissing in your pocket. I don't
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: think you're the dell Alama. I think you've got a
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: way to go, as do we all as do we,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: But it's like for you, there is you know, there
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: is something that's quite different about your energy and about
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: you know, being around you.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Not that I've been around you much, but you know
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: what I mean, it's yes, so.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: It's good, it's good. I mean, well done. What do
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: you moving forward? Do you intend to have? This is
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: weird too, but a spiritual practice or what's that look like?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Ah, even as you described that whole not being able
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: to put words to things I agree with that. I
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: find it hard. I feel different doing different, and I
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: can't really wrap words around what that is, means or
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: looks like. So I'm saying with this question, yes, but
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: it's this process of letting it unfold and being aware
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: and knowing, Like I think letting go is a big
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: part of like surrender. I have this thing about surrendering,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: and I feel that that's a big thing that happened.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I've tried to let go, like I've tried really hard.
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: To let go, damn it.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: For a long time.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I've been aware of that as being an issue holding
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: onto stuff, and I really feel like that started to
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: be a process that's happened. So it's sitting in the
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: middle of it, going how much perspective can I keep
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: as I now move forward and stay here and move
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: forward and don't go back, but don't try too hard,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I don't know what it's going
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to look like.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Ups And if it sounded like you to we went
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: on the retreat with an intention, whether you were conscious
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: of it or not, and because you had an intention
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: and you were open, whatever the process was, it sounds
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: like to me there's been a shift on a deep
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: level within you that might not come to light until
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: later on down the track that that shift has happened,
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: and it's it's irreversible because you were you were present
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: to it and you were open to it and accepting
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: on it.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And it's that that like coming back and going did
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I do that?
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Totally, I do it?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Does it like what do I do with this understanding now?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: And I don't incorporate it or not? Maybe more to
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the point.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And I think sometimes we don't have to
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: overthink it. We can just for me sometimes I'm like, Nikki,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: get out of your head and just just be open
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: to it. Just say for me, I'm open to whatever
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: you have to teach me, whether it's now or down
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: the track. But I thank you for the the grace
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: to stay open.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: M I think that's the trick Nick and Ti if
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I think part of it is is to get your
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: mind out of the way. Is like I think your mind,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: you know, like the mind is a two edged sword,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you know, because it can be it can solve all
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: these problems, and it can create all these problems out
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of thin air. And so like trying to manage your
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: mind and trying to understand your mind. But I think,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things for us when you
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: know and people grow No, I grew up in a
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: really religious and then less religious and more spiritual kind
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of for a while and quite a while, and it's like,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that doesn't make sense in inverted
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: commas logically right. And because it doesn't, because we can't
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: put it in a box or measure it or poke
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: it or feel it or touch it or quantify it,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: we go, oh, that must be bullshit, which is a
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: really arrogant thing to think, because what we're saying is, well,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: if I don't understand it, then must be bullshit, because
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I'm a genius, you know, whereas the truth is of
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: all there is to know, Like we don't know what
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: we don't know, and you know, it's just like being
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I think, not being gullible or vulnerable in a bad way,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: but being open in a curious way.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Yesterday when I was talking to Bobby, and the first
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: thing I said to him was this reference. And I
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: say it often about time feels warped to me, and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I've always said since COVID, And remember perhaps the other
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: day I said to you about the last four years,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: which show that just dawned on me. Now, so it
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: is a thing that time was warped to me and
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: it goes so fast. But then I realized that when
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: I came back, I wanted to stop all this rushing.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I've listened to an audiobook on one point one. I
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: haven't listened to anything audio at under one point five
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: speed before, or I have walked at normal walking pace
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: without rushing. Like I'm doing everything without rushing, and I'll
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: be interested to see what my relationship with time starts
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: to look and feel like over time. Now I'm not rushing.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Wow, like we're rushing to nowhere in particular, that's the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: right we're.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: You know, trying to live life before before we get
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: their sort of thing.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the process not living at all.
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: Exactly because we're so focused on where we've got to
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: get to. And it's like, no, hang on, this is life. This,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: these are the moments of life. And more and more
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: I'm conscious of that, you know, often walking around or
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: whatever and rushing around and it's like no, Nikki, don't
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: just look at the flower. Actually stop and smart because
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: in my head it's like, oh, I'll do that another day.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: It's like, no, you ain't so poor. Now be in
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: this moment. Now open your eyes to what's in front
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: of you.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Right now, Nicky, can I just ask you to give
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: us a little bit of a snapshot because some people
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: will be meeting you for the first time, So correct
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: what I fuck up, and add whatever you want and
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: subtract whatever you want. But among other things, of course,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you and I went to university one hundred years ago,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and you did exercise science and you were a year
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: or ahead of me, believe it or not, but she's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: younger than me, much younger than me, because I started
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: when I was one hundred and.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Four, and then you did. Then you did an honors degree.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I think you got offered a PhD scholarship because you're
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a smarty pants, which you ended up not doing. Then
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: you did nursing, so you've got multiple degrees. And then
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you obviously you've worked as a nurse for quite a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: long time, but now you are working more in the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: space of pastoral care.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: I'm still in a hospital setting.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And also you are a death dueler, so you work
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: with a lot of people who are somewhere between pretty sick.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: To very very sick.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Too at the end of their life and even being
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: with people as their life is ending. Tell me how
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: that works for one of a better term with your
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: spiritual philosophy and journey, Like, how do it?
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Because like is it tricky?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Because you can't impose your values or thinking on people,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: not at all? So how do you navigate that space
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: where you're with someone who's literally got hours to live
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: or days to live and you're just being with them?
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I think, for me, when I'm in those situations, it's
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: incredibly important that I'm grounded and mindful of the situation
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: and also the fact that it's not about me. This
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: is about me what can I bring to this situation?
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: So take my personality out of it and almost sort
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: of step into how can I be of use in
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: this situation? And for whatever anyone believes in, but for me,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: I sort of I believe in a universal energy and spirit,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: And so in those moments, I sort of offer out
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: a prayer and say, use me as your hands and
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: your feet be my voice for me. Whatever you need,
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: show me how to do it for you, what you
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: need for this person in this moment. I don't quite
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: know how oft to put it, But it's being very
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: conscious of the fact that it's not about me, that
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: it's about being mindful and respectful and also being prepared
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: for anything, because in those sorts of situations, you open
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: the door and you step in, and you don't necessarily
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: know what you're stepping into. If you're stepping into, you know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: family situation with their loved one, or if there's adversity
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: in that situation, if there's harmony, you just don't know.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: And so it's a real for me active trust of
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: I'll be guided in how to navigate it.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I'll be guided, and I guess there would be at
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: times it would be volatile because people could be upset
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: or angry or you know whether or not that's family
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: or the person, or confused or just I would guess
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: a huge range of kind of feelings and emotions, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: you know, scenarios that you have to navigate as both
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: a medical professional but also as somebody who's there to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: really to I guess, comfort and reassure people.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: And it depends a lot on the circumstances in terms
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: of if the person is dying, if that's been expected,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: or in terms of their age. So many factors come
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: into it that can determine what the atmosphere is like
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: in a given situation. You know, I've been in some
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: situations where I've sort of had to facilitate different members
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: of the family not being in the room at the
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: same time because they're strange. And other times it's been
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: absolutely tragic circumstances, someone who was, you know, in the
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: prime of their life, young, their life ahead of them,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: so to speak, and whatever is, and they die. And
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: in other instances it's been where people have gone down
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: the route of the voluntary system dying process, and so
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: they've actively said this is how I'm going to die.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: This is the day that I'm going to die, this
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: place and the situation, the circumstances I'm going to die.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: It's each one is its own unique experience and needs
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: to be approached and respected.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: So the idea of for many of us, the idea
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: of choosing the day that you will die, the time
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that you will die, how you will die, who will
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: be there or not be there, you know, basically orchestrating
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: your death. And of course this is for people who
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I mean quite a few medical hoops need to be
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: jumped through and they meet certain criteria and they have
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: terminal illnesses and all of those things, of course, but
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: to a lot of us, just that thought is it's
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: very hard to get our head around, and like on
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: a level some people, I'm sure some people would go,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I totally get it, some people would say, I'm not sure,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and some people would go, under no circumstances like that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be allowed to happen or tell us about, you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: because you're there, like you are the person helping that
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: person transition.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Which I think is the word that you use.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean those instances when I've been in
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: the voluntary system dying space. It's the most beautiful and
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: peaceful and serene experiences of death that I've experienced as
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: a pastal error and as a jest in the sense that, again,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: we all have our own thoughts and ideas and values
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: around this, and I'm not trying to deny that or
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: diminish that in any way. But until someone is in
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: the position where they are terminally ill and they only
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: have a certain or finite period of time left for
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: them being able to have something that they can have
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: some autonomy over in a situation where pretty much everything
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: else is out of their control. That can just become
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: a sense of I'm still here, i still exist, will
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: have a say here. And that's not to say that
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: in the medical world, you know the patient and the family,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: they're not. Of course, they're considered and consulted absolutely as
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: they should be. But so much is out of your control.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: When you're in hospital, you're totally vulnerable, you're out of you,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: you're out of your own familiar environment. You become you
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: take on the identity of a patient as opposed to
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: you know, hang on a minute, I'm still Sarah, and
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: i still work here, and I've still got this life,
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: and I'm still a mom, and I'm still a sister,
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: and I'm still a daughter, I'm still a friend. So
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: much of that just falls into the background because rightly
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: or understandably, the focus is on the illness and the
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: treatment and the management and whatever whatever the case may be.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: And I see it as part of my responsibility to
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: see the person and to remind them you're still you.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: You're still Sarah, You're still a mother, you're still a wife,
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: you're still a daughter, you're still a teacher, You're still
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: all those other roles in your life. And this is
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: an experience that you were having in your life, but
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: it's not all of you. And there aren't any easy
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: answers or solutions or generalizations. They just aren't. But I
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: remember having a conversation with a patient, probably a couple
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: of months ago, and she had made the decision to
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: proceed with her application for voluntary sister buying. And I
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: think she was I'm forty five. I think she was
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: maybe a few years older than me, And I remember
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: her saying, until I got into this position, as cancer
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: and it's termined on the prognosis wasn't long until I
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: actually got into this position, I didn't actually know if
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: I would choose this. But now that I'm in it,
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: and that she's been through years of treatment, she's exhausted
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: all options. Her body is being through like ten marathons
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: with all the treatment that go through, She's like, enough,
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Now this is my choice and this is the dignity
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: of mine, and so I'm going to step into that.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is an appropriate or a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: dumb question, but we can cut it out, could you?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: What is it like being with someone? And I'm sure
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: it varies, but as they breathe their last breath.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Do you?
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't know what I'm asking, but
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I just want, like I've been around people that are
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: dying or you know, it's like when the Crab died
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: in the gym, it was all very busy and traumatic
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and obviously he came back to life seventeen minutes later,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: but it was all very But you're in a very
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: different kind of setting and energy.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: What is it like as you go on that journey
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: with someone?
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: And I think, firstly, just in reference to your experience
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: with the Crab, totally different situation in that it's an
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: acute situation. It's an emergency situation that the intention for
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: everyone in that situation is to present, Whereas in the
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: circumstances where I work, the intention is there. That's the
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: end goal that we're all working towards. Whatever that may
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: sound like, it's the truth. And I think it's important
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: that just as human beings, we get more comfortable with
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: saying that, because death is going to be truth for
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: all of us. But the thing is, it's you know,
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: I'm such a medicalized process and issue and almost in
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: some instances, not all by all, by any means, but
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: in some instances, death or no further treatment. It's like
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: we've failed. It's no because death is going to come anyway,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: and that person has done what they've wanted to do
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: in terms of their preserving their life to that point,
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: and now they're making a decision. I don't want to
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: do this anymore. I'm choosing another way. I'm choosing a
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: quality of life as that whatever that means for me
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: and mean different things to every single person. For some people,
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: quality of life is dying with no pain. Father's quality
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: of life means dying in a room surrounded by their
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: loved ones who toast them as they take their lives.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: For others, dying can be a ninety five year old
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: lady who set all her goodbyes and asked me, a
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: complete stranger, to be her duella, because she wanted some
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: She didn't want family, she didn't want any of that stuff.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: She just wanted to go go out in her own
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: home without any emotionally.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: I imagine, Nikki, that.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Do you like with the hypothetical lady that you just
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: mentioned that it's ninety five, chooses to end her life
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: with you by her side doing your job. It's not
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: really a job, it's more a calling. I feel at
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a job, it's like not quite adequate, but anyway, doing
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: what you do, but choosing to have you with her
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: as she transitions or as she dies. How like when
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: do you meet? How does it work? When do you
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: meet her? Do you do you meet with her leading
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: up to that day? Do you build a relationship? I'm
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: sure you don't. Oh, I don't know.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, I'm sure you don't rock
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: up on the day and go, are you the one
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: that's dying?
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I think it?
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: Do you know?
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: No, totally do. In that particular instance, a colleague referred
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: me to the lady because my colleague knew that I
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: was a deaf doller and knew that the lady wanted
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: to have someone who was completely removed from her world
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: and could just be there in a nursing and also
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: supportive capacity to support her to take her medication and
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: to die.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: So and why did she choose that? Like? Why did she?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And there's no judgment in here, just curiosity because was
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing I'm probably wrong, But she didn't want she
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: didn't want to make people sad or uncomfortable or.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I knew this lady. I guess from start to
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: finish about a period of six weeks. I met her
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: when she was at the beginning of her application process
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: voluntary sister dying, and I was in that sort of
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: process that the individual needs to have a contact person.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: But this lady nominated me to be her contact person.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: And she didn't want to nominate anyone in her family,
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: any friends, or anything like that. She just wanted someone
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: who was completely neutral. And again that was unique to
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: this circumstance. Quite often, in other circumstances, a spouse will
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: be the contact person, or a sister or a brother,
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: or a friend, or someone who's intimately involved with that person.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: This particular lady, she was ninety five, her husband had
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: died many years ago, as sons lived, both of them
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: were living inter state, and she said to me, Nicky,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: I've said everything I wanted to say to them. I've
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: had all the conversations. I just don't I don't want
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: to I don't want to do any of that anymore.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: I've said my goodbyes, I've made my piece of the situation.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: This is why I'm taking this direction, I think. And
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: everyone's different, but that's how she wanted to go out
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: those were her terms that she wanted to go out on.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: And the people that you've sat with in those last
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to feel free to ask a question, because this is fascinating.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: The people that you sit with as they, you know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: take their last breath and the you know they administered
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the drugs or whatever it is, are they did, I
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: feel like I'd go, oh fuck, wait on, hang on,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, like I'm not.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be a dickhead.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: The people are they? They come? Are they? I'm sure
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: it's different.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it is different. And for the majority of
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: the ones that I've been involved in, it's been a
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: conscious and united choice by the individual and they've been
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: supported by their family members because often in the settings
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: that I work in, the family have supported their loved
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: one to quite and link the honest and just the
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: absolute marathon that can be medical and hospitalizations go on
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: for you sometimes and can involve multiple different treatments and
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: can just be a really grueling journey, grueling for everyone
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: because not only does the individual patient go through it,
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: to a person go through it, their loved ones go
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: through it with them exactly at the same time, and
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: quite often with the loved ones. There is I'm not
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: trying to diminish what the patient goes through, but it
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: is torture in some instances to see your loved one
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: in pain and suffering and you can't change. And that's
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Those are a lot of the conversations that I have
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: with partners or cares or family members that often the
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: words to me are, I can't do anything. I've got
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: nothing to give. No. I think we need to look
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: at that a bit more closely. You're here, you're supporting them,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: you're loving them, you are literally companioning them into their
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: next next phase of life. You are actually giving them
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: the greatest love of all because yes it's painful, Yes
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: you'd rather they stay here, but you're putting that aside
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: because this is where they need to go. You're showing up.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: In those moments after Nikki for you. Do you feel sad?
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: It can depend on the circumstances give in that in
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: some instances. But being such a ruling, drawn out road,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: it's there's a sense of that they're not suffering anymore.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: And and but more importantly than that, they've gone out
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: on their terms. They went out exactly as they wanted
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: to and the privilege to be able to facilitate something
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: like that someone who's gone through an experience of being
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: unwell to then have the capacity, autonomy, the power to say,
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: I'm choosing now, I'm choosing now. Because when you got
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: to treatment, yes you can choose if you want to
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: keep going and everything, but in treatment it's all on
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: you know, treatment and then the side effects. Managing that
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: and managing the follow up. The surveillance is an absolute
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: commitment and dedication of the person and the family. So
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: for them to then have that power of choice given
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: back to them to say I choose now, it's ordinary.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And now of you, has it been a process of
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: how do you protect you? How do you protect your
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: emotional wellbeing? And things that might be brought up?
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, of course unfortunate in the sense that I work
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: closely with my colleagues and so we can debrief with
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: each other and support each other. And I have my
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: own sort of practices in my own life that's support
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: and nurture my well being physically, mentally, and emotionally and spiritually.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: So in that sense, h whether this sounds bizarre or
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: not for me, it's I wouldn't I choose to be there.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: If I can support someone in their choices, it's my
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: privilege to have any part in that. Yeah, And to
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: facilitate someone being able to step into their own choice,
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: that is an absolute privilege and honor.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like similarly to the kind of resilience and
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: adversity mindset, and I have a lot of those conversations
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: that relate to boxing in the physical world as well,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: but just makes me think of how the impact of
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: what you see and go through and then how you
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: process finding joy, Like I imagine if I'm wrong, that you
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: now have it an innate ability to find joy and
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: beauty in really tough situations, and that is a gift.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And I feel like if we could take insights from that,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: that could be really powerful in life.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: That's why I want to say, there are some instances
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: where I just need to go and have a crime
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: because they just rip your heart out. And again it's
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: circumstance by circumstance. But overall, what I what I try
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: to approach this role with is it's not about me.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: It's about how can I be of service? How can
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: can I be of loving service? Here doesn't mean it's
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: all hearts and rainbows because it's not because sometimes it's bloody, ugly,
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: and it's rugged and it's painful. You know, it's just painful.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: But having said that, I still see it as my
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: role to hold space for that and to give witness
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: to that, give it the respect of bearing witness to it.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Nick, can I ask sometimes when I'm listening, like I've
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: been listening to YouTube for the last five and sitting
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: back more as a listener than a host, right, And
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: then I think, if I was in the car listening
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: to this, what would I want to ask?
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Niki?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And maybe no one else would want to ask this,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: but I would want to ask you. If I just
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: heard you and I didn't know you, I would want
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: to hear what is your spiritual practice like? Could you
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're comfortable, and I'm sure it
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: varies a bit day to day, but could you tell
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: us what that looks like for you in the real world,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: because I feel like, not only emotionally, mentally and practically
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: do you need to be ready, but you need to
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: be spiritually ready to do what you do to be
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: as a functional and well as you are. So what
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: is your spiritual practice? If you could try to describe that, Yeah, it's.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: An ongoing, evolving experience process. And the more I sort
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: of go along this road, the more I sort of
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: realized what I don't know, and that's not a bad thing.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: More about being open and curious, and if I'm less
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: sort of baggage I bring to it, the more receptive
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: hopefully I'll be to what is actually out there. And
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: I know that probably sounds quite I know, airy fair,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: and I don't mean it that way at all, because
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: for me, my spirituality is very much about you know, action,
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: faith in action, you know, stepping into things that get
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: the shit out of me. It's like, nah, you've put
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: your hand up to be of service, then you go.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: And so it can be quite gritty at times as well.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: And then I sort of nourish my own self with
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: things like nature, with my meditation practices, my yoga practices,
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: with the reiki that I practice. Being out in nature
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: is it just soothes my soul. I don't know how
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: else to describe it. When I'm out in nature, everything
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: else just slips away and I just become present what's
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: around all of us. You know, the sort of the
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: noise in my head just get a little bit quieter.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: And it's like open your ears, open your eyes, open
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: your heart to what is here for all of us,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: right here, right now. I'm not special, I'm not anyone
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: different at all. I'm just doing this human gig too.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: But I guess I have an intention of being open
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: to and growing my awareness of what can't I see,
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: what can't I necessarily touch, but what what I believe
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: is out there? And I don't know what it is
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: that's out there, but I in my heart, I believe
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: there's something greater than all this that is out there,
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: and that's for me. Hopefully that will be a lifelong
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: curiosity and journey and navigation.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: And well, and I love it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: And no one's got to handle on it. No one's
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: got to handle on it's this or it's that. We've
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: all got ideas, and you know, we all need to
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: have those things that help us to feel comfortable with
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: our own values and our own practices. And I understand
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: that and I have them myself. But I think also
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: for me, as I got continue to go along, it's
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: like what do I need to let go of? Here?
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: What do I need to let go of? Yes? I
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: like that because it makes me feel comfortable and fixed
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: in with it, I think, But is it actually just
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: is that purely I hold on to it because it's
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: purely selfish or fear based or pride based or whatever.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Or is it Am I really willing to show up
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: and stand naked, beat an open be an open hard?
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: I should say?
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Hm, wow, wow, so good, so good.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I just get a little bit lost sitting there, thinking
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like a host anymore.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: I feel like a student.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: I've had this most beautiful saying, we're all just walking
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: each other home.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Oh God, don't make me cry.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: That the most beautiful thing. But that's what we're all doing.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: We're all just walking at each other home.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Wow. I wonder what home looks like exactly.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for jumping on because we
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: had somebody out and I buzzed you on very short
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: notice and said, could you have a chat to us?
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm not sure what about? Really, we had
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: an idea, we didn't do the idea, and this was
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: much This was much better than my fucking dumb idea.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: No anytime.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Nick.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Stay there, we'll say goodbye off air. But Tiff, thank you, Nikki,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Tiff, thank you all right, Thanks ladies,