Latest / The White Papers / Bridging Crypto and Traditional Finance | Guardarian CEO

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Bridging Crypto and Traditional Finance | Guardarian CEO · The White Papers

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So we are back from Token
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2049 Singapore at Marina
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Bay Sands.
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This is another edition of the White
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Papers. And today I'm joined by
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Peter, the CEO of Gardarian.
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I guess welcome.
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Thank you for taking time out to
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chat with the block.
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How are you enjoying Singapore so
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far?
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Thank you very much for having me
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here.
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It's an interesting place, I'm
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enjoying it, so far so good,
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conversations are all in
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conferences.
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It's booming, people are excited
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about crypto for the first time, it
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feels like in a while.
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And hearing a lot of big
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announcements and headlines,
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so it's been an interesting
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conference so far.
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But enough about that. Let's get
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into Garderian. Maybe to start, just
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give an intro on who you guys are,
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what you do, and what the company's
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been up to since inception.
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So Garderian is
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originally a RAM service.
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We are building products
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for crypto and financial markets.
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Now we are shifting more towards to
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infrastructural and platform
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offering.
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The company has been on the market
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for seven years,
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growing and prospering.
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Maybe can you start with where
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you guys came from, what you're
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doing, and walk us through how you
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guys evolved. It'd be really cool to
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hear.
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So we started as a ramping
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service, meaning converting fiat to
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crypto and crypto to fiat for our
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customers.
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That demands, from a product
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and from an operational perspective,
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a whole bunch of
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bits and pieces from which we build.
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From custody, to funds management,
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to liquidity and operations around
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it,
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to banking and payment
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institutions relations.
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We build it in a way that these
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bits and peices
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get extracted into
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independent internal products.
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Once we see these products mature,
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we extract them to a
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product offering for our customers.
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That would be the name of the game
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moving forward, launching new
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products beside ramping,
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that being custody and
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deep liquidity provision.
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If you don't mind me asking, can you
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tell me who some of your customers
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are?
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Yeah, so we serve both
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legal and natural customers.
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For natural customers, it's an end
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consumers who receive
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whatever ramping
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and funds management service.
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From a business and from
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business side, it's
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wallets, apps,
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and fund management.
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Okay, and I guess today we're gonna
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have a conversation really focused
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on regulatory and compliance
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So I guess specific to
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what you guys do Can you speak a
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little bit how important this is
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because there's been a lot of issues
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in crypto in the past about
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Non compliance and all these other
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things that left people a bad taste
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in their mouth But now that's really
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starting to change for the better in
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my opinion
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Yeah, so approach to regulatory
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has shifted quite a lot
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from being
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agile and building
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in this vast ecosystem to
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having this framework which dictates
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how we build, what we build.
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Though it's not necessarily bad.
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As long as rules are clear and
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predictable, we can put it
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to work right away.
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As long, as long as they don't
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change overnight, we You can
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build it, build foundation,
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and then...
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Focus on building product features
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after that.
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On top of that, it's important to
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mention that we
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are lucky enough to work with
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the European regulators
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in the sense that they actually
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listen to your feedback.
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When regulator doesn't act
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as a limiting
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factor,
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but us being members of
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this developing industry
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can communicate,
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can give feedback.
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Be heard,
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get advice, that's what
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helps us to develop the
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industry as a whole.
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Well said, and how do you manage
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actually like those local
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relationships but also building
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something for as many users as
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possible because that seems quite
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difficult, especially in
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like a jurisdiction like
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Europe and the EU I guess.
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Exactly.
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So for us, the path was to
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learn how to do it in one market.
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We started in Europe back when
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the regulation was
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a bit easier and more flexible.
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So from Wasps to
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this transition to Mika.
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Once core integrity
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principles for keeping a company
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at balance are defined,
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we can build for flexibility
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and adoption.
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We started in Europe, we are growing
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globally now.
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Yeah, and I believe globally there
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was something recently that you
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guys mentioned around India, I
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believe it was, right?
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Yes, the India is a good example,
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so it definitely demonstrates that
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global market becomes more
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fragmented from local
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regulation.
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Emerging countries or emerging
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economies adopt their own
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frameworks, adopt their own
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ways to follow what happens in the
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crypto space.
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In practice for us it means that
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in some cases operations
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have to be suspended and customers
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have to be restricted before there
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is a clarity on what's
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happening and how to land in a
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certain geography in
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a timely and a proper manner.
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In India, we
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acted quickly, so we are in good
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contact with FIU India.
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We restricted the market,
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we communicated our actions
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proactively and we
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are waiting for feedback now.
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Then how important is that
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proactivity piece, getting in front
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of these things as you see the news
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come out?
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Because I can imagine as CEO, it's
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very difficult in your position to
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manage.
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It is absolutely one of the
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most important things.
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So internally and externally,
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we want and we do act
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proactively and transparently.
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So having this transparency with
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the regulator is, I
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mean, it's rather important.
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We don't get to hide anything and
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in return we get a
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good solid contact with the
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regulator.
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Yeah, definitely.
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And I can imagine after that
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proactive outreach, you following
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all the proper guidelines, it just
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makes it much easier to move forward
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because they know you, they have
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that trust already built out, right?
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Exactly in the first
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place, it establishes the trust,
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which is the most important.
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Yeah, I mean, I can imagine it must
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be really, really difficult because
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in an industry built on
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verification, for people outside who
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don't even understand how smart
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contracts work with blockchain,
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really trust is the foundation for
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everything that they understand and
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it allows you to just move
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forward in a more friendly manner.
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Yeah, absolutely. I do agree with
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you.
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All right.
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So really on the,
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really being like a global business,
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navigating the regulatory When you
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think about...
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A place like Europe versus APAC
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where they're both, which are both
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clearly growing in crypto adoption
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at a rapid pace, how do you manage
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that? It must be extremely
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difficult.
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Well, I mean, it's an interesting
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challenge indeed APAC,
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for example, is very fragmented from
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a regulator standpoint.
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We do have emerging countries with
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rules been established as we speak.
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In Hong Kong, for examples,
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payments and stable coins adoption
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is
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leading the charge.
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In Singapore, traditional finance
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and that's as to global banking.
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So to sum it up about
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APAC
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It's quite flexible for
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local markets.
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Each market has its own demand and
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regulation adopts.
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If you compare it to Europe on the
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other hand, Europe has
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a very solid
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Mika as a foundation, as a
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framework we build around.
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So for us as a company which
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operates globally, it's important to
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maintain this flexibility when we
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build for global reach.
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Yeah, and I'm curious on
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the APAC side of things given you
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said the regulatory environment is
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pretty fragmented Does that also
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mean you get a ton of different
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questions or are they pretty similar
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across the board from the
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regulators?
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Generally speaking,
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regulation is very simple from
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region to region.
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So core principles are all
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the same.
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Know your customers, know where
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funds come from,
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build around it.
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Though what's different is the,
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well, obviously details, and the
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level of discipline which is
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required, while Europe
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is being a bit more.
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Observative from a top level of what
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you do, what you report,
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and what information you have to
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provide.
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APAC, some countries of
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APAC region are more
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flexible on that.
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OK, that's interesting.
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Yeah, because one of the things
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that, you know, in crypto, very,
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very, this global
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industry, there's just
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very different business practices no
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matter where you go, and you almost
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get an appreciation for the culture
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as well, so.
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Culture is super important
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and for us as a company which
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works on the edge between
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fiat and crypto worlds in a way,
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it's super important to understand
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what's the demand of the local
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market.
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In APAC, for example,
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most people use
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QR codes for payments,
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one thing. Most people use mobiles
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for their day to day operations,
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while in Europe it's
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more of a traditional banking and
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cards. So, uh...
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And being able to adjust this
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product offering into our ecosystem
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and our offering is also super
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important.
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So I guess when you started at
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Gardarian and you
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think about adjusting to
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all these cultures, was there
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anything that surprised you
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for the better when you were
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initially starting out?
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We started small, we started
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servicing Europe primarily,
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again, cards, banking, and then
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you learned that, for example,
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in Africa there is no cards
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at all.
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Cash is the king and
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some presence of banking debt.
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Would be one of the surprising
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cases. Interesting.
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And I know there's a lot of growth
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as well in the LatAM corridor for
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crypto.
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What are your dealings like there,
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if at all?
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Our plans for the next year
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are to establish more
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of a local presence in Central
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America and Latam.
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The market is huge, the demand is
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huge and regulation has
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been developed.
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Yeah, definitely.
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It's been interesting. I haven't
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been to the El Salvador, like
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Bitcoin Beach, anything like that,
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but it seems cool.
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I mean, it would be nice to visit,
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but...
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It is. Also, it's a good place for
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surfing.
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Uh... Get well really are you sure
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Almost.
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Yeah, I don't know, I'm not gnarly
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enough for that kind of stuff, man.
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I don't think I'd be good.
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So I guess given you understand
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regulation at Garderian and take
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it very seriously, how
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do you think about the banking
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industry and your dealings with
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them? Because I can imagine you guys
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cross paths quite often.
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Indeed, indeed, and we are on the
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very edge.
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It used to be quite tough to deal
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with banks,
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and mentioning crypto was a hard
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stop immediately, right?
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Subjectively, it's
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a bit easier in Asia,
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so banks are a bit more
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open-minded when they talk to crypto
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companies, but the trend generally
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changes, both here and
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in Europe.
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So as long as you can demonstrate
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to a banking institution...
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How you manage risks, whether
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you can build for a long-term
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stability and sustainability
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of operations.
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Conversation shifts from crypto
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now to how we can work
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together.
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That's interesting, and yeah, I
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guess you were building at Garderian
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well before that was even
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acceptable,
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or not acceptable, sorry, that's a
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bad way of putting it, but well
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before it was accepted broadly,
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now it seems like people are open to
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it. Can you speak to how your
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conversations with banks have
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evolved over time?
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It's interesting.
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It used to be more of a networking
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and connections.
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So whether you can, I
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would put it, sneak into,
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whether you can sneak into
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these banking relations,
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there were banks which were
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naturally a bit more crypto
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friendly. Now the amount and variety
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of banks which support it grow.
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So it's, well, I put it that it's
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a bit easier to enter the banking
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relations.
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I definitely can understand that.
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I mean, in the United States, we
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had, there was this big thing,
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Operation Choke Point and Chokepoint
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2.0, where they're basically saying,
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if you have any dealings with any
12:52
crypto business that is
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unacceptable, cease
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operations immediately and just
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no explanation.
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It was really scary now to see like,
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all these big CEOs of these huge
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financial institutions saying, yeah,
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you know, Bitcoin actually has a
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place in the global economy.
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Indeed, indeed, and it applies to
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all regions, not only states or
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Europe or APEC, but
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the general picture is...
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So what do you think changed about
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crypto that made people more
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receptive to the idea that this
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is a revolution technology and if we
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don't utilize it, we're going to get
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left behind?
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So my idea here would be that
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crypto evolved from being
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a wild west of an
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industry into slowly
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but surely growing and maturing
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place.
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Banks in its turn are well
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established institutions and they
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manage their own risks
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ultimately.
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So once we find this
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borderline on which we
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can work and collaborate
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together, when we can speak the same
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language, we can speak on the same
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regulation and control level, we
13:53
are good to go.
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Obviously, Token is one of the
13:56
biggest conferences, if not
13:58
the biggest for our industry.
13:59
You can see there's a ton of people
14:01
walking around, I mean,
14:03
meetings back to back to back,
14:04
running around all day and night in
14:06
some cases, like, how's your
14:08
experience been at the conference
14:08
thus far, and what have been some of
14:10
the highlights?
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Yeah, so definitely it's interesting
14:12
to see how token evolves year over
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year.
14:15
This year, there is
14:17
much fewer bigger companies being
14:19
represented, and there is a
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whole variety of smaller and
14:23
growing businesses.
14:26
I would expect to have
14:29
more AI related companies,
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though there are not too many.
14:34
And most of them are frankly.
14:36
Trading with some marketing buzz on
14:37
top of it. So we see that AI is
14:39
getting adopt, but maybe not as
14:41
fast.
14:43
On the other hand, we see few
14:45
companies that
14:47
bring.
14:49
Roulette attractions and amusement
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park attractions to the stands,
14:53
which is sort of funny.
14:56
Though it's important to mention
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that we also have
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Dubai pavilion with
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local companies being present
15:04
and established, so you can meet and
15:06
greet them and learn from them.
15:08
And what's most important, Vara is
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a central regulator in place,
15:12
we had quite an interesting chat
15:14
with them. It shows that
15:16
from the one hand...
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Industry is still growing and
15:19
there is still place for an
15:20
experiment.
15:21
On the other hand, there is maturing
15:23
and regulation which is already
15:25
adopted and here.
15:26
So Peter obviously token
15:28
is huge, but we are moving towards
15:30
basically the end of the fourth
15:31
quarter holidays and whatnot But
15:34
it's going into 2027.
15:35
What are your plans like our daring?
15:39
For us, as for many others,
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I guess, it's to stay on the
15:43
market, to grow both from
15:45
a geographical standpoint, so where
15:47
we are present, and launch new
15:48
product verticals.
15:49
We are shifting towards an
15:52
infrastructural offering, to a
15:54
platform offering for our customers.
15:57
Launching new product, verticals, we
15:59
are launching custody, we're
16:00
launching deep liquidity, so that
16:02
would be the name of the game for
16:04
the next year.
16:05
Oh, good stuff.
16:06
So you said custody
16:08
as well as deep liquidity.
16:09
Yes.
16:10
Interesting.
16:11
Can you speak more to that at all?
16:12
Yeah, absolutely.
16:13
In my opinion, it's two building
16:15
blocks based on which
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other consumer products can
16:21
be built.
16:23
We do have this stack built for
16:24
ourselves.
16:26
And the name of the game for us was
16:28
that we
16:30
built something internally.
16:31
We see it works for us, meaning that
16:33
it can work for somebody else.
16:35
We are at the stage when we are
16:36
ready to offer this part of
16:39
our infrastructure to the global
16:40
market and to extract it to
16:43
separate products.
16:44
I really appreciate you taking the
16:46
time to chat with the block, it
16:47
means a lot, and I hope to see you
16:49
at another conference soon, man.
16:50
It's my absolute pleasure to be
16:52
here. Thank you very much.
16:53
Cheers.