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Episode 403: The Real Reason Some Cookbook Authors Get Book Deals · Cookbook Love Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker: You're listening to the Cookbook Love Podcast with Maggie Greene,
• 0:05
  Speaker: episode number four oh three.
• 0:10
  Speaker: Welcome to the cookbook Love Podcast, a podcast that
• 0:14
  Speaker: celebrates cookbook readers, buyers, collectors, writers and
• 0:18
  Speaker: clubs, and now your host, cookbook author, culinary
• 0:22
  Speaker: dietitian, and cookbook writing coach Maggie Greene.
• 0:31
  Speaker: Hi, everybody.
• 0:32
  Speaker: Welcome back to another episode of the cookbook Love Podcast.
• 0:36
  Speaker: How's everybody doing today?
• 0:38
  Speaker: I am recording this show the
• 0:40
  Speaker: Tuesday after Memorial Day, just
• 0:42
  Speaker: a couple of days before it goes
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  Speaker: live.
• 0:45
  Speaker: We had a really nice Memorial Day weekend.
• 0:48
  Speaker: Our two sons were in town
• 0:50
  Speaker: attending a wedding, and we got
• 0:52
  Speaker: to see quite a bit of them and
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  Speaker: enjoy some things around town
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  Speaker: here in Cincinnati for Memorial
• 0:59
  Speaker: Day.
• 1:00
  Speaker: And then on Monday, the sun came out.
• 1:02
  Speaker: After a weekend of rain and we had spent some time in the yard
• 1:05
  Speaker: planting flowers and getting to put some stuff on the grill for
• 1:11
  Speaker: a little cookout.
• 1:13
  Speaker: I made strawberry shortcake and used a book that we talked about
• 1:16
  Speaker: in a previous episode, which I'll link below.
• 1:19
  Speaker: The book was called baking for
• 1:20
  Speaker: two and I wanted to make
• 1:22
  Speaker: strawberry shortcake, but I
• 1:24
  Speaker: didn't want to make like twelve
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  Speaker: shortcakes.
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  Speaker: So I found a recipe and baking for two for a scone that I
• 1:30
  Speaker: modified, turned it into some little Shortcakes, baked it on
• 1:35
  Speaker: my countertop in my countertop oven, and it worked out perfect.
• 1:40
  Speaker: So if you are interested in small quantity baking recipes,
• 1:43
  Speaker: I'll link to that book below.
• 1:45
  Speaker: It was a great way to enjoy
• 1:48
  Speaker: Strawberry shortcake for
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  Speaker: Memorial Day.
• 1:51
  Speaker: So today I want to share with
• 1:53
  Speaker: you something that I have been
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  Speaker: thinking about.
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  Speaker: I've been teaching a lot about
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  Speaker: cookbook writing, cookbook
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  Speaker: publishing.
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  Speaker: I did a free master Masterclass called Stop Dreaming About
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  Speaker: Writing a Cookbook.
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  Speaker: And there are certain things that traditional publishers are
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  Speaker: always looking for, and I sort of feel like a broken record
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  Speaker: talking about these things.
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  Speaker: Um, these things like, do you have an audience?
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  Speaker: Do you have a platform?
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  Speaker: Is there a clear market for your book?
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  Speaker: Uh, what makes your book different?
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  Speaker: How will your book stand out?
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  Speaker: Does this book have a long shelf life?
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  Speaker: And are you an author that could
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  Speaker: possibly write more than one
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  Speaker: book?
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  Speaker: You know, when publishers are
• 2:37
  Speaker: going to publish you, they are
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  Speaker: investing in you and your book
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  Speaker: and they're hoping to make a
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  Speaker: profit.
• 2:46
  Speaker: I often say that publishers are
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  Speaker: in the book selling business,
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  Speaker: which they are, but they're
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  Speaker: hoping to make a profit from the
• 2:53
  Speaker: books.
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  Speaker: I think that's something that we fail to always remember when
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  Speaker: we're thinking about pitching our ideas to publishers.
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  Speaker: Every cookbook that a publisher
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  Speaker: acquires has to compete for
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  Speaker: resources, editorial time,
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  Speaker: design, budget, marketing
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  Speaker: dollars, sales team attention
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  Speaker: publishers are making a bet on
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  Speaker: us.
• 3:13
  Speaker: They're investing tens of thousands, sometimes for some
• 3:16
  Speaker: books, hundreds of thousands of dollars in the book.
• 3:20
  Speaker: And like any investor, they want
• 3:21
  Speaker: to know if they are going to
• 3:23
  Speaker: make their money back with some
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  Speaker: interest.
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  Speaker: So there are two things that publishers generally don't have
• 3:33
  Speaker: at the top of their list for things that they are worried
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  Speaker: about related to the author, but are often two things that the
• 3:44
  Speaker: author is more worried about than the publisher is.
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  Speaker: Now it's not.
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  Speaker: The publishers aren't concerned about these two things, but
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  Speaker: they're not the two things that are actually going to sell the
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  Speaker: book to the publisher.
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  Speaker: Okay.
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  Speaker: So again, for selling your book
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  Speaker: to your publisher or for writing
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  Speaker: a really clear self published
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  Speaker: book, be sure that you know who
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  Speaker: your book is for the audience
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  Speaker: it's for and the engagement that
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  Speaker: you have.
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  Speaker: You want to know why they want to write the book?
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  Speaker: What the what, why they want to
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  Speaker: buy the book, what the market
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  Speaker: for the book is the size of the
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  Speaker: market.
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  Speaker: If there's a pain point you're
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  Speaker: solving, um, how you can reach
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  Speaker: this market for selling the book
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  Speaker: where your book fits on the
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  Speaker: bookstore shelf.
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  Speaker: The third thing is what makes your book different.
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  Speaker: What makes your book unique?
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  Speaker: What makes it stand out?
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  Speaker: What's the angle?
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  Speaker: What's the hook?
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  Speaker: The fourth thing is, um, again,
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  Speaker: can the book have a long shelf
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  Speaker: life?
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  Speaker: You know, some technique focused
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  Speaker: books or cultural or heritage
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  Speaker: books, foundational all purpose
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  Speaker: books, timeless lifestyle books
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  Speaker: like Mediterranean diet, plant
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  Speaker: based eating have a longer shelf
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  Speaker: life than something like a.
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  Speaker: Perhaps trend focused books like
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  Speaker: keto or air fryer, celebrity
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  Speaker: cookbooks maybe come and go, as
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  Speaker: well as what sometimes are
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  Speaker: called gimmick cookbooks, like
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  Speaker: recipes that only use three
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  Speaker: ingredients.
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  Speaker: They want a book with a longer shelf life.
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  Speaker: And then the the fifth thing is,
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  Speaker: is can we build a brand around
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  Speaker: this author?
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  Speaker: Would this be someone who might be able to, um, write another
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  Speaker: cookbook for us?
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  Speaker: They always like to think of your first cookbook succeeds.
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  Speaker: You could perhaps write a second or a third.
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  Speaker: They want to be able to publish you more than one time.
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  Speaker: So all of these things are very, very important.
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  Speaker: And that's exactly what you should be thinking about
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  Speaker: primarily when you are selling to a publisher.
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  Speaker: But there are two things, like I mentioned, that we sometimes
• 5:49
  Speaker: worry more about than we should.
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  Speaker: Number one is the recipes.
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  Speaker: Now don't you?
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  Speaker: Don't get me wrong, you can't
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  Speaker: write a cookbook and not have
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  Speaker: good recipes.
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  Speaker: But the recipes are going to matter more to the reader than
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  Speaker: they are to the publisher.
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  Speaker: The publisher wants to know the outline of your recipes.
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  Speaker: They might ask for a sample chapter.
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  Speaker: They might even try a few
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  Speaker: recipes out of the sample
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  Speaker: chapter.
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  Speaker: But you do not have to provide
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  Speaker: every single recipe developed,
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  Speaker: tested, and written, written out
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  Speaker: and tested for a publisher to
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  Speaker: make a decision about your book,
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  Speaker: because it's not one of the most
• 6:36
  Speaker: important things.
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  Speaker: It's it's a huge job to write a book and to finish all the
• 6:43
  Speaker: recipes once you get the deal.
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  Speaker: But to get the deal, the recipes are not going to make or break
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  Speaker: the proposal, and they're not going to make or break whether
• 6:53
  Speaker: you get a book deal.
• 6:55
  Speaker: In fact, I think one of the best things about a cookbook proposal
• 6:59
  Speaker: is you get to dream about what you might want in your book.
• 7:03
  Speaker: You get to put together a really nice annotated table of contents
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  Speaker: for this book that you're pitching, and you get to write
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  Speaker: just one sample chapter, and you don't have to worry about
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  Speaker: writing anything else.
• 7:16
  Speaker: So the readers place more importance on the recipes than
• 7:20
  Speaker: the publisher does.
• 7:23
  Speaker: Okay.
• 7:24
  Speaker: And the second thing that readers play more place, more
• 7:27
  Speaker: importance on than the publisher does, at least from the proposal
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  Speaker: perspective, is the photography and the design.
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  Speaker: Now, this feels very important
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  Speaker: to cookbook authors, mainly
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  Speaker: because we want our books to be
• 7:42
  Speaker: beautiful, and we want our
• 7:47
  Speaker: readers to think our books are
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  Speaker: beautiful.
• 7:51
  Speaker: And if we have design or
• 7:53
  Speaker: photography skills, we want to
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  Speaker: showcase them.
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  Speaker: But publishers are not going to buy the book from us based on
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  Speaker: whether or not we can design and photograph our book.
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  Speaker: That's not one of the top five things that they are initially
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  Speaker: most concerned about.
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  Speaker: It feels very important to us,
• 8:16
  Speaker: but it's not that important to
• 8:17
  Speaker: them.
• 8:21
  Speaker: Again, your audience, your
• 8:23
  Speaker: platform, the market for your
• 8:25
  Speaker: book, a problem you might be
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  Speaker: solving for your reader, your
• 8:29
  Speaker: positioning for your book, your
• 8:31
  Speaker: angle, your book shelf life,
• 8:33
  Speaker: your long term success as an
• 8:35
  Speaker: author.
• 8:36
  Speaker: Those are the things that a publisher is more interested in
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  Speaker: you expressing to them and writing for a proposal than all
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  Speaker: of your recipes or your ability to design or photograph a book.
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  Speaker: So that doesn't mean that you
• 8:57
  Speaker: don't need to worry about
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  Speaker: writing recipes, or you need
• 9:00
  Speaker: that.
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  Speaker: You don't need to worry about design and photography.
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  Speaker: And this is where I want to make a little bit of shift in what
• 9:05
  Speaker: I'm talking about.
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  Speaker: I have taught over the years, um, a recipe writing class
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  Speaker: usually teach a five part class all about recipe, copyright law,
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  Speaker: recipe development, recipe writing, recipe testing.
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  Speaker: Um, we go into all the things about recipe writing I've
• 9:24
  Speaker: entered, I've interviewed recipe writers on the show.
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  Speaker: I've interviewed, um, people who
• 9:31
  Speaker: have written recipe writing
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  Speaker: guides.
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  Speaker: It's so, so important for a cookbook to be able to write
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  Speaker: recipes, do not get me wrong.
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  Speaker: But it's not going to make or break whether you sell your book
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  Speaker: to the publisher.
• 9:45
  Speaker: Okay.
• 9:46
  Speaker: The second thing is, is that
• 9:48
  Speaker: cookbook design and photography
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  Speaker: is important for the book, but
• 9:53
  Speaker: again, it's not going to
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  Speaker: actually be one of the key
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  Speaker: things that sells your idea to a
• 9:57
  Speaker: publisher.
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  Speaker: But I haven't taught as much
• 10:00
  Speaker: about design and photography,
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  Speaker: mainly because I don't really
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  Speaker: consider it to be my strong
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  Speaker: suit.
• 10:08
  Speaker: I've talked to book designers on
• 10:09
  Speaker: the show, and I have decided to
• 10:12
  Speaker: offer a special live workshop
• 10:15
  Speaker: all about cookbook design and
• 10:17
  Speaker: photography for cookbook
• 10:19
  Speaker: publishing.
• 10:21
  Speaker: We are going to talk primarily
• 10:23
  Speaker: in this class, taught by a
• 10:26
  Speaker: cookbook design and photography
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  Speaker: expert and art director for a
• 10:31
  Speaker: cookbook publisher.
• 10:33
  Speaker: She's going to talk all about,
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  Speaker: from a publisher's perspective,
• 10:39
  Speaker: what the author is expected to
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  Speaker: do related to design and
• 10:43
  Speaker: photography for traditional
• 10:45
  Speaker: publishing.
• 10:46
  Speaker: And then we are going to talk
• 10:47
  Speaker: about art direction and design
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  Speaker: and photography for
• 10:50
  Speaker: self-published projects.
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  Speaker: Again, those two things feel so
• 10:55
  Speaker: much more important to authors
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  Speaker: the recipes, the design, and the
• 10:58
  Speaker: photography.
• 11:00
  Speaker: But again, when it comes to selling your book to a
• 11:02
  Speaker: publisher, they kind of take a back seat because the publishers
• 11:06
  Speaker: interest in how to help, how to buy profitable books from
• 11:11
  Speaker: authors, and not just visually stunning books or books that are
• 11:14
  Speaker: full of delicious recipes.
• 11:16
  Speaker: Um, again, it's not that those things aren't important, but the
• 11:21
  Speaker: strong proposal with the audience and the platform and
• 11:25
  Speaker: the case for your book in the positioning are all more
• 11:30
  Speaker: important for the buying perspective from a publisher.
• 11:33
  Speaker: Whereas the recipes and the
• 11:34
  Speaker: design and photography are the
• 11:36
  Speaker: buying perspective from the
• 11:37
  Speaker: reader.
• 11:39
  Speaker: So if you are interested in
• 11:42
  Speaker: writing a cookbook of your own
• 11:45
  Speaker: and getting it published, but
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  Speaker: you want to talk and learn about
• 11:49
  Speaker: the design and photography part
• 11:51
  Speaker: of a book, I'm offering a very
• 11:53
  Speaker: special masterclass taught again
• 11:57
  Speaker: by a senior art director at a
• 12:00
  Speaker: publisher.
• 12:02
  Speaker: We are going to talk in this class all about how to master
• 12:08
  Speaker: cookbook design and photography in the traditional publishing
• 12:13
  Speaker: process, you're going to learn who handles what.
• 12:16
  Speaker: Who pays for what and how to
• 12:18
  Speaker: maintain and work in
• 12:20
  Speaker: collaboration for creative
• 12:22
  Speaker: control.
• 12:23
  Speaker: We're going to talk about
• 12:23
  Speaker: communicating your visual vision
• 12:25
  Speaker: like a pro, so you can create
• 12:27
  Speaker: mood boards or visual briefs for
• 12:30
  Speaker: your publisher.
• 12:31
  Speaker: We're going to talk about
• 12:32
  Speaker: professional standards and
• 12:34
  Speaker: publisher expectations, so you
• 12:35
  Speaker: can position yourself as a
• 12:37
  Speaker: credible, informed and publisher
• 12:39
  Speaker: ready author.
• 12:41
  Speaker: There will be time for live
• 12:42
  Speaker: question and answer, as well as
• 12:45
  Speaker: access to the recording of the
• 12:47
  Speaker: workshop.
• 12:48
  Speaker: In addition, I am offering a
• 12:50
  Speaker: special bonus where you will get
• 12:52
  Speaker: my five part live recipe writing
• 12:55
  Speaker: training so that in this
• 12:58
  Speaker: workshop you will have training
• 13:01
  Speaker: about everything related to
• 13:03
  Speaker: what's important to the cookbook
• 13:06
  Speaker: reader, the recipes for the
• 13:08
  Speaker: book, and the visuals and
• 13:11
  Speaker: photography.
• 13:12
  Speaker: So if you were interested in signing up for this masterclass.
• 13:16
  Speaker: How to master Cookbook design and photography.
• 13:19
  Speaker: A workshop on cookbook, visual
• 13:22
  Speaker: direction, styling and
• 13:23
  Speaker: professional standards.
• 13:25
  Speaker: I dropped a link below in the show notes.
• 13:28
  Speaker: I would love to have you there again.
• 13:30
  Speaker: The class is on Wednesday, June the third, twenty twenty six at
• 13:34
  Speaker: twelve o'clock noon eastern.
• 13:36
  Speaker: You do get a recording for the class if you can't make it live,
• 13:39
  Speaker: but I would highly encourage you to show up live so that you can
• 13:43
  Speaker: get your questions answered with clarity about your unique
• 13:47
  Speaker: cookbook publishing situation.
• 13:50
  Speaker: So that is kind of a interesting
• 13:54
  Speaker: way to think about our
• 13:56
  Speaker: cookbooks, what the readers
• 13:58
  Speaker: want, what the publishers want,
• 14:00
  Speaker: and what we as cookbook writers
• 14:02
  Speaker: need to provide for the
• 14:04
  Speaker: publisher to get the book deal,
• 14:06
  Speaker: and for the reader to have a
• 14:09
  Speaker: very beautiful book full of
• 14:11
  Speaker: delicious recipes.
• 14:14
  Speaker: But the focus in the beginning
• 14:15
  Speaker: is getting the publisher to buy
• 14:17
  Speaker: the book for the book deal, or
• 14:19
  Speaker: getting the book prepared for
• 14:21
  Speaker: self-publishing.
• 14:22
  Speaker: In this workshop on cookbook design and photography is going
• 14:26
  Speaker: to help you with that in terms of visual direction.
• 14:30
  Speaker: And then the recipe Writing workshop will help you with
• 14:32
  Speaker: writing the recipes that you know, that your readers are
• 14:35
  Speaker: going to love and that uniquely belong to you.
• 14:38
  Speaker: Again, the link is below in the show notes, and I would love to
• 14:41
  Speaker: have you there.
• 14:43
  Speaker: So that is it for today's
• 14:45
  Speaker: episode of the Cookbook Love
• 14:46
  Speaker: Podcast.
• 14:47
  Speaker: This is your host, Maggie Green.
• 14:48
  Speaker: And until next time, have a
• 14:50
  Speaker: great day and keep loving your
• 14:52
  Speaker: cookbooks.
• 14:57
  Speaker: Thanks for listening to the Cookbook Love podcast.
• 15:00
  Speaker: You can find out more information at w w w dot
• 15:03
  Speaker: cookbook dot co.