Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 262: One last home test for 2026

Transcript

Rugby Direct Episode 262: One last home test for 2026 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Strike
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: down the middle. Drop it down and score.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: There's your bonus point.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: From every angle, it's Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Liam Napier, powered by Newstalk ZB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith with me,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Liam Napier. That's not a good start to Test Week, Napier.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you all. Not a good start to the pod either,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: quite frankly.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, mate.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: School holidays. Yeah, take it out of you.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: It'll get you.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: No, late night.
• 0:55
  Speaker 5: I wasn't up watching the NRL Grand Final and Marky Mark.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: It's going to be good to see him in Rugby
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Union next year.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, back to the 15-man game along with Angus Crichton.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: Probably not so influential.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Crichton over for the Eden Park Test next weekend and
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Marky Mark now, why not?
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: No, look, I think the Wallabies will be quite a
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: compelling package, probably a lot more so next year than
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: they will be.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: This weekend, perhaps.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be. I haven't caught up with whether Crichton
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: might go on the India tour or not, potentially. I
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: don't think Nohunga Itawase will, but he's with Japan. But
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: we'll see. But, yeah, look, big movements in the world
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: of rugby and rugby league. Let's start, actually, before we
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: get on to the Blitterslow with Artie Salvia signing with
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: the Blues. Now, you've been reporting this was very likely
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: for months and, again, last week and after about 45
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: minutes on a video, as is the way these days,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Artie announced that, indeed, he is going to The Blues
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: and the Herald was right after all. Look, not a surprise,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: but good to have that cleared up. And the fact that, look,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: he's called it the last dance. All signs point to
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: this as expected being Adi Savi's last year in New
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Zealand rugby.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: Thankfully, I won't be donning a Crusaders jersey.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: He looked good in it, I thought.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: No, me, remember we had that bet? Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: I said if he didn't end up at the Blues,
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I would don a Crusaders jersey.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, he donned a Crusaders one, a Highlanders one,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a Hurricanes one, a Chiefs one.
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Uh, third super rugby team and the last one, uh, indeed.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: So look, we knew this was going to happen. He's
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: been negotiating with the blue since July. It was only
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: as New Zealand rugby components of, um, how much more
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: he could extract from that deal that, that held this
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: up in the timing of the announcement. Um, I think
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: he was happy in Auckland with his family, his brothers here.
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: It's a easy transition from Moana. Um, I think it's
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: a real coup for the blues. Uh, Artie will, I'm told,
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: will be fit close to the start of next season.
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: It's a big year with the World Cup, so he'll
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: be rested and rotated. But, look, having a guy around
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: the team like him is experience. And for those younger
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: loose forwards in particular. And I also just think there's
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: a lot of change happening at the Blues. And I
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: think having a guy like Artie will be good. And
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: I think he can walk in there unburdened. He's not
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: going to be captain. There's Patrick Tupelo too. There's so
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: many other players within that team that have been there
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: a long time. So he's not going to be expected
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: to do much more than what he will bring on
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: the field.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: No, I think that's a good thing for Adi as
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: well because, as you said, World Cup year... Who knows
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: how much rugby he'll play when he gets back from
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: that injury. So there's all sorts of things up in
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the air in that regard. The Blues now have a
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: bit of a juggling act, although they've lost Dalton Papali,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: but Cegna now in all black. They've got Sarvia. So
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: we probably see Sarvia a fair bit at number eight, potentially,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: for the Blues?
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: Ardy at eight, Cegna at seven, and then Ettore and
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: Barnes maybe at six. You've got Rampling as well. So
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: some real depth in the loose forwards, despite, like you say,
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: losing Papali and Satutu.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: So look the Blues are well set up.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: They've recruited well I've got Cam Miller Nick Shearer Darby
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: Lancaster and Odin Ryan who I think could be one
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: of their best signings next year I think quite sad
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: news as well with Kirk Eklund announcing his retirement due
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: to a neck injury.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: He's a hell of a career a real character of the.
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: Game so I guess he's forced retirement but um that
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: that's part and parcel of of being a front rower to.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: A degree yeah and i think he was off to
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: japan if memory serves right so he's obviously missed out
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: on that deal which you know obviously health comes first
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: as well but just a real shame because he's always
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: been one of those um you know players that have
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you know fronted up whether it's for bay plenty the
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: moldy all blacks he was captain of them um for
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: the blues he's been a you know, regular of the
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: domestic game in New Zealand. So a real shame to
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: see him bow out, you know, not on his own terms,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I suppose. A little before we go any further, Napes,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: you caught up with Jason Holland, the new coach of
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the Blues, and he gave you some thoughts on signing
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Adi Savi. Let's have a listen to that now.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: What about just, I guess, what he'll bring to the team?
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: You know, you've known him a long time, very charismatic guy,
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: all-black captain. We saw what he did with Moana, what
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: is it, sort of two years ago now. What do
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: you hope, what do you expect him to bring?
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: Well, what I know is Artie will bring Artie as
• 5:32
  Speaker 6: a starting point.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: You know, he'll come in and be himself, which is
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: what we all want at the Blues.
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: We want us all to be able to be ourselves.
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: From a leader point of view, he's obviously the outstanding leader.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: He leads in his own way through his actions. He'll
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: come in the Blues and play a part in our
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: leadership group, but.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: You know he won't be in the main it's not
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: as if Hardy's going to come here and be one
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: of the main leaders there's already really awesome established leaders
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: within this group already so he'll come in and add value.
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: In his own way in behind that group of leaders.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: And that'll be the best recipe for him getting on
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: the field and playing some great rugby along the way
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: I do see him as a I've watched Artie over
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: the last.
• 6:16
  Speaker 6: Three or four years and any environment it was being,
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: he's smart, he'll sit back, he'll have a look at
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: the environment and he'll know where he's going to add
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: value and a lot of the time he'll grab the.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Young loose forwards, young guys who he thinks needs a.
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: Bit of a hand and he'll be more cemented for them.
• 6:33
  Speaker 6: So he'll take great pride in helping our loosies to
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: get better and better.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Semesi Tupotai-Loa signing with the Hurricanes as well. This one
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: went a little bit more under the radar because there
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: was the reports that he was signing with the Blues
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: not so long ago. The Highlanders had him in their
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: catchment and then let him go a couple of years back.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Crusaders and Hurricanes were a two-horse race potentially by the end,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: but he's gone with the defending champions.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, smart man. Go to title town.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Not the NPC. We'll get onto that later.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, or not. Yeah, interesting, isn't it?
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: It's for a guy who played, well, two games for
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: the All Blacks and was without a home, so had
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: a New Zealand rugby contract. And just because of the
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: timing of it, couldn't fit in so many teams. I
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: understand the Blues didn't really talk to him, so I'm
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: not sure where that came from. The Highlanders would have
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: liked him but didn't have room The Crusaders offered him
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: a wider training group, um, contract with the promise of
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: progression to a full squad the following year. But the
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: Canes clearly shuffled their deck and made enough room. I
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: guess they've lost Devin Flanders. Uh, so, yeah, shit, there's
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: some good loose forwards going around New Zealand. And if
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: they can, I think, if they can get him fit,
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: get him conditioned, um, he could be a real weapon.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: Looked like he was a wee bit injured for Southland
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: at the weekend, but should be good to go by
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: next year.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: And, um, Yeah, can maybe add.
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: A Super Rugby title to his two midweek matches for
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: the All Blacks.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, let's not rule anything out at this
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: point in time. I think it is a good signing
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: for the Hurricanes, and look, he's only 22. He future-proofs
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: the team in many ways. Look, who knows where the
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Clark Ladle is going to be there beyond next year.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: You would suspect that, you know, I've got nothing to
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: back this up, but Duplissie Karifi will probably leave New
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby after next year. Braden Yose, you know, looks
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: like the All Blacks might have passed him by, so
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: maybe it's time for him to move on. So then
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: you've got the next, you know, player coming through. So
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I think a pretty astute pickup from the Canes.
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and they've got options in that loose forward trio.
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: Like you mentioned, Peter Lakai probably moves to, well, he'll
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: start over Tau Lowa, but he can play seven and eight.
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: You've got Karifi, Yose, Brad Shields is still kicking about.
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: So real depth that allows you to rotate. And Clark
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: Laidlaw has a proven track record in recent times of
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: grooming young players, getting the best out of them. We've
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: seen him bring in some real gems from the seven
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: scene and the Hurricanes have a very strong coaching staff.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: So I think it is a good move.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Just going back to your point though, that team's not
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: being able to fit them in. Does that speak to
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a contracting problem in New Zealand rugby? Look, This is
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: an extraordinary circumstance with Moana collapsing and then a player
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: being selected out of there for the All Blacks. But
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: the fact that so many Super Rugby teams have their
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: rosters sorted for next year, obviously they're professional organisations that
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: need to plan for the future. But I would like
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: to see some sort of mechanism where certain spots are
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: kept available. We've talked about this a number of times
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: on the podcast and what you could do. But I
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: think it's a fault of the current model that you
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: had an All Black– with no home and no teams
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: able to fit them in or struggling to fit them in.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: I think we've previously talked about some form of draft
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: mechanism where you can protect 30 odd players but you
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: have to leave open eight spots per se and that
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: would generate real interest in the NPC about where these
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: players come from it would incentivize playing well throughout the
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: NPC you could have a draft day just create a
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: bit of off-season interest in your competition. And so I
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: agree that while it makes sense from a professional standpoint,
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: I think there's so many mechanisms and levers you could
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: pull to try and build interest around signing. I think
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: other competitions do that really well.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed. Let's move on to some other news. Ruben
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Love ruled out for the rest of the year. This
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: had been, well, we talked about this last week, a
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: real possibility. Now it's been confirmed. So, look, a blow
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: for him. We talked about this on the pod that
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: he'd been coming in. They backed him to start on
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: that third test in Soweto. And now that momentum just halts,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: which is a real shame for Ruben Love.
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: Huge blow personally, isn't it? I think we talked last
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: week about how much he would get from starting and
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: absorbing different oppositions, different styles, whether it be the Wallabies, Scotland, England,
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: playing in those arenas. It's a big loss in terms
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: of his opportunity to gain experience. And on the flip side,
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: it's now a real opportunity for Moanga to warm into
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: his work and start to perform. Essentially, he's been brought back. Uh,
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: he was long thought that it was going to be
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: his time, his team.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: He was the man.
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: Uh, he hasn't had a lot of time, but, um,
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: it's now the ball on his court for sure.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Um, how do they play this out? I mean, do
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you look to get Josh Jacob a starting test in
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the next wee while now? You got to balance this
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: between the fact that more longer hasn't looked convincing and
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the one test he had and the, the tour game
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: he had against the lions, uh, So how much time
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: do you juggle getting more time for Mwanga in the
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: saddle versus do you look to give Josh Jacob a
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: test match, a starting test match? Because if he falls over,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: do you go to Jacob or do you bring in
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: a Bowdoin Barrett to 10 or a Damian McKenzie?
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: I think you're all in on Mwanga at this point.
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: He's got the pedigree and the more time he can get,
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: the better. If he has a run of games and
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: he's not performing, then maybe you look to an alternative.
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: I think... When you look at the fixtures throughout the
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: remainder of the year, maybe Jacob starts against Wales. That's
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: an obvious test to give him experience with where Wales
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: are at. But otherwise, I think Mwanga has to be
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: trusted to gradually improve, to absorb the game plan and
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: step up and run the team. Yeah, there's other options there.
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: Fallback options, McKenzie, Barrett and Jacob.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: But I think.
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: From where Moanga could get to, his ceiling, it's quite
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: a significant drop off.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: I'd agree with that. But do you have Jacob on
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: your bench this week is the question which probably blends
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: us into selection and chatter for this week?
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: No, I don't think so. Mackenzie at fullback, you've got
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: cover there. You don't really need him. Maybe you look
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: to get him some time potentially in Sydney if the
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: All Blacks win this week. But otherwise, I think he
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: largely sits in the wings until Wales and Cardiff.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's jump into this week, the opening Blitterslow Cup test.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: All Blacks and Wallabies. Always good to have the Wallabies
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: in town as they try and win here for the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: first time in 40 years. Look, this is a good
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Wallabies team, and Leskis, you know, short term, he's managed
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to get in that win over South Africa. They've lost
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Hunter Paisami through that suspension, but you'd suspect a largely
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: similar side to the one that rolled out in Perth.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: would likely play at Eden Park for the All Blacks.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Any surprises that you can foresee in terms of what
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: they might look at?
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: I don't think so, but.
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: I don't know if it is a great Wallabies team because,
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: like you said, they've lost Paisame, Lenny Iketau, there's a
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: cloud over his fitness. They've also lost Tania Latupo and
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: Tom Hooper, two of their best forwards, because of the
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: ramifications of the rugby's greatest rivalry series, has pushed the
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: Bledisloe back into October. So this match is outside the
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: test window. And so Tom Hooper and Tanaleo Tupou have
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: to go back to their overseas clubs. Will Skelton's also injured,
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: but he wouldn't be available. This is going to be
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: exasperated in years to come with guys like Marky Mark
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: in Japan and I think Paisami's Off abroad as well,
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: so it does strip The Wallabies of a number of
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: their best players And that really hurts their chances for
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: this Weekend and The Anzac Test next year Because they
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: need their best players, they don't have That same depth,
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: so I'm not writing the Wallabies Off, but it's certainly
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: not going to be Their best team, best available team
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: This weekend.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: No it's not, and I suppose that Those players that
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: they are missing is probably When you talk about the
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: New Zealand Eligibility, that's the kind of Situation they would
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: potentially Be getting themselves in, that players would be able
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: to play certain matches but not others so if you
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: you know um a proponent of eligibility laws being softened
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and to an extent i am to a certain degree
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: but that was the you know the payback or the
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: um um the the downside of it is that you
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: don't get your players all the time um the all
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: blacks on the other hand look they've had a few
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: weeks to kick stones after that um loss to the
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: spring box and the series loss uh overall just looking
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: at i guess that the makeup of that team um
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Front row, Cody Taylor's obviously the captain. De Groot, Lomax,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: is that the way you'd go?
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so.
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: There's probably a question mark about whether you potentially start
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: Fletcher Newell, but I think Lomax is a bit more mobile,
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: better ball skills, so I think he starts. And then
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: you're probably looking at, what, Fabian Holland.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: And a question mark.
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: Around what you do with Tupou. But the main question
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: mark for me is whether Shannon Frizzell starts.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: What do you reckon?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I think he does, actually. I think he does start
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: this week.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: At six?
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: At six. Yeah, I think we've seen enough from him
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: in NPC level to suggest that it gives them– in fact,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: they've only selected, what, four locks in their squad. Now
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Tupai can obviously switch there. It's been a mixed experiment.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: I don't think Tupai at six is the style of–
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: you don't need him at six for the Wallabies.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so either. I think Frizzell starts
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: this week. Personally, I'd look at Cegna at seven. Maybe
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: they'll go Blackadder. Don't know. So that's an interesting question.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Lakai at eight for me.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I really, I like the composition of that loose
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: forward trio. You've got Frizzell who brings that physical presence.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: Cegna's a genuine fetcher. He'll target the breakdown. And Lakai,
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: good ball carrier, good at the breakdown. So I think
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: they really complement each other well. I... thought Ethan Blackadder
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: was good in Baltimore. I probably still have question marks
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: around what he brings with ball in hand.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: I know he's busy. I know he brings a great work.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: He certainly lifted that side of his game, I think.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: It's noticeably, you saw that in the Lions tour game,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: and I think you saw it in Baltimore, that he
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: is a lot busier with ball in hand, looking for opportunities.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: But man for man, I think if he compared, well,
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: him and Lakai, Lakai's a better ball carrier. And Cegna
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: is probably a better fetcher. So maybe a blackout is
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: a bench option. What about the back line?
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: Does it largely pick itself?
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: I guess the big question mark is left wing.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Look, I'd like to see Fihi Finnegan-O'Rourke get an opportunity
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: this week. I thought he was good for Bay of
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Plenty yesterday. I'm not sure. He didn't go for a
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: head knock and he sort of clashed heads with a
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: team i don't think he went off with an hia
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: um but i think he's right for this week um
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: and if not now when you know last week he
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: um signed with new zealand rugby that contract um was
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: pushed back with newcastle until after the 2027 world cup
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: we sort of get a couple of opportunities in july
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: or one opportunity in july didn't get a This, to me,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: seems like the opportunity to unleash Finianga Norfolk and see
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: what he can really do at Test Rugby level.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree. Time to find out.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: You can't just keep this guy in your squad and
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: not give him genuine opportunities in your top team. And
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I talked before about the ceiling with Moana. I feel
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: like his ceiling could be higher than a Lee Rocata
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: or a Josh Morby, but you're not going to know.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: So give him a crack against the Wallabies.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: Let him.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: potentially be exposed or found out under the high ball,
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: but his ability with ball in hand to beat a man,
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: he's very strong defensively as well, and at the breakdown,
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: so I'd love to see him get a crack. The
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: other big question is Scott Barrett. Does he feature, and
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: if so, where?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think he features this week. That is based
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: on no intel whatsoever, just the kind of progression that
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I thought he might have. Played for Taranaki twice now.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: He's in the squad recently. to me, doesn't play this week,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: gets up to speed with the All Blacks squad of 2026. Again,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: this doesn't quite apply to Shannon Frizzell, who I'm saying
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: will start, but Barrow, on the other hand, I think
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't play this week and then potentially starts or comes
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: off the bench in Sydney if the All Blacks win.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: If not, that may change.
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: So your locks are Fabian and Tupou with the... Lord
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: off the bench Yeah I think so I'm very intrigued
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: to see what Scott Barrett brings but I think what
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: we've seen from the All Blacks this year would point
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: to a gradual progression and for that reason I wouldn't
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: be surprised if they maybe look to inject Frizzell off
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: the bench but I'm with you I'd throw him out
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: there make him work hard for as long as possible,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: empty the tank and.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: See where he's at from a test rugby perspective?
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think he's got a bit to prove,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Shannon Frizzell. You know, the All Blacks, he was the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: starting blind side at the World Cup in 2023. But
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: if you remember back to then, it was a live
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: question until he had that really good game at Mount
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Smart Stadium against the Springboks. And it was like, oh, well,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: he is the starting blind side for the World Cup.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Until then, you know, there were a number of options
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: that were right in the mix for Ian Foster and company,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and then they obviously settled on Shannon Frizzell. I don't
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: know that he has– he's been missed, obviously, because they
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: haven't settled on a blind side in the interim, but
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I think he's got a lot to prove here, Shannon Frizzell.
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: Well, it's been, yeah, two and a half, three years, and, yeah,
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: we need to find out where he's at. It's one
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: thing to perform in Japan. But this jersey has been
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: a revolving door and the All Blacks need someone to
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: step up and take ownership of it. I think Shannon
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: Frizzell can be that guy.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: I think he ticks a lot of boxes.
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: There is a question mark about whether he fits the
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: work rate, the getting up off the ground, the repeat efforts.
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: I think he might be spending some time back at
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: training with Renz doing that tackle pad drill that Artie
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: Sevier had to do in Japan. But I don't know
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: about that selection policy either. I think you need some
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: room to assess players a wee bit differently. Afeni Anganofo
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: is a great example. Shannon Frizzell, Ama'u longer term. If
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: they bring enough dominance elsewhere and you've got enough workers elsewhere,
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: don't you need some complementary assets?
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and you.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: don't need everyone to play 80 minutes i think is
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: the other thing um and look worst case scenario they
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: may have to play 80 if there are injuries whatever
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: but um i often wonder whether that's being judged against
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: an 80 minute metric rather than yeah a new school
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: let's get the best out of this player for 25
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: minutes sort of metric and i'll say players should be
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: unfit or not able to reach those fitness standards in
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: the all blacks but often wonder whether you're judging it
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: against an 80-minute benchmark rather than here's what this explosive
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: player could potentially do in a shorter burst of time.
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, look, work rate's important, character's important, and fitness, you know,
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: these are non-negotiables. But if a guy is charging off
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: the back fence, giving you a 20-meter burst that allows
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: you to then play the rugby you want to play,
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: and it takes him a couple of extra seconds to
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: recover or get back, again.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: I think you need to be a wee bit flexible.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. The question mark as well
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I'd have over Frizzell is his discipline. He collected a
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: lot of yellow cards, I know, in Japan.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Tackle height.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's magnified at test level. You've just got
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: to be so, I mean, World Cup final he was
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: yellow carded, but even in Japan he was yellow carded
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: a number of times in his first season at least,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: and I can't remember the stats, but it was, you know, Basically,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: every week he was being yellow-carded, essentially. A bit of
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: exaggeration there. So at test level, everything's magnified, and I
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: think you've got to be so on point, and those
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: little elements in your game will be picked up by referees.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So it was interesting to hear Dave Reining on a
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: slightly tangential note when he was talking to Jason Pine
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: for an hour on Saturday. He talked about Duplissi Karifi
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: and the reasons here. was overlooked for the squad and
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: basically said that his breakdown work is often not legal.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And while he gets a lot of turnovers, he's also
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: penalised a number of breakdowns, whereas Anton Cegner, who he
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: pointed to, will get a lot of fetching, but he's
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: not penalised nearly as much. And he mentioned that those
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: things are magnified by referees at test level. So you've
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: just got to be on your game.
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: It's a good point about Frizzell. Look, that physical presence.
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: Summer Penifino was another example. Similar type of player, very physical.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: But when you play on the edge and you're knocking
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: people over and you're flying out of the line looking
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: to genuinely be dominant, it is a really fine line
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: to walk. And Frizzell has history there. not just in
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: Japan but with the All Blacks. So it's incredibly important
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: because a split-second moment, a brain explosion a couple of
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: inches here and there can define a test match.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Indeed. We'll dig more into the test team when it's
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: named on Thursday. Confidence levels at this point of the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: week though, Liam, around the All Blacks keeping the blitters low?
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: I think so. Look, the fact that they only need
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: to win once. with the way that the schedule is now.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Last year for now, you know, next year we have
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: one too.
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: The fact it's at Eden Park, the fact the All
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: Blacks come in pretty refreshed and they should be unhappy
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: with the way the RGR finished. They should have been
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: stewing on that for a few weeks. There's still a
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: lot of competition within that squad. So I don't think
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: there'll be any challenges building the required mindset for the Wallabies.
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: They won't take them lightly. Rennie's got history. He should
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: know the Wallabies pretty well as well. So I think
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: it all points to an all-black win, but stranger things
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: have happened.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, have indeed. Right, NPC chat. Quarterfinals set. Counties Manukau
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: keep the shield. For the summer, been a great season
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: once again for the Ranfurly Shield. It was a gritty
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: old game on Saturday afternoon in Pukekohe, but they kept
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: hold of it. It's just, again, has shown the importance
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: of the Ranfurly Shield and the NPC as a whole.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah. The Shield is magic, isn't it? It completely
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: transforms a regular season game in Pukekohe. No one would
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: have showed up for that game otherwise, but the hill
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: was filled talking to... my sports editor, Winston Aldsworth, and
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: he went to the game and he was saying Puki
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: was packed. There's a real magic that is cultivated by
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: a trophy that stands the test of time, that has
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: historic value. that evokes tribalism and all those sorts of things.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: So magic for a union like Counties to not only
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: win it, but hold on to it, probably against all
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: the odds. Slightly bizarre that Hawke's Bay left Devin Flanders
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: and Harry Godfrey on the bench for that game. But, look,
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: Counties were good for it. And, yeah, what did they finish?
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: 12th?
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: And this season will be deemed a success because they've
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: locked away the shield.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: So that's another... element to it isn't it?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It is yeah absolutely it's you know their season was
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: written off as a failure two weeks ago and now
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it's completely flipped on the basis of two weeks and
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Hawke's Bay on the other hand have gone from you
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: know six games unbeaten top of the log to now
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: losing four straight heading into the playoffs and we're going
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: to be away from home this week and you wouldn't
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: back them to win that game either against Otago so
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: that could be five losses gone out of the playoffs.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: You couldn't back them earlier in the year. You know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: they were that short. They were title favourites. Not sure
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: what's happened.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: No, no, I don't know what's happened either. Bizarre stuff.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Speaking of bizarre stuff, Wellington.
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: Look, the best thing you can say about Wellington and
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: Auckland's seasons is that they're done.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that's not good enough. Look, I know
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Wellington will be able to point to the Hurricanes, although
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Wellington Rugby and the Hurricanes are poles apart and don't
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: really see each other as best friends. So.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: There's a bit of irony that Wellington sold their shares
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: in the Hurricanes to either win the title. I think
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: it is a reflection that that union's been really badly run.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: In recent years, they've had huge financial losses. I don't
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: think they've got their house in order. There's a lot
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: of unrest in the club scene down there about them
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: not picking enough locals and bringing in old veterans.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: So I don't think the culture.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: That's right, but it's bad timing for those major unions
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: at a time when New Zealand rugby is considering amalgamating
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: them into their Super Rugby Province franchises as well.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't provide a great argument that they're a
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: legitimate high-performance pathway, does it, for those two? Canterbury, on
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: the other hand, going from strength to strength at the
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: top of the ladder.
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure things will change now the business end
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: of the years here.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't have thought so. North Harbour, pfft, gone. Canterbury, Red
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: and Blacks. Hand us the title now.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: On another note, how good is it to see the
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: All Blacks filter back into that competition? I know it's fleeting,
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: but even the scenes in Anaki with Bowdoin and Scott
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: Barrett going back and playing and just what that can
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: do to inspire support. And I also think on the
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: whole you see that there's levels to the game, isn't there?
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: Most of those All Blacks go back and dominate. I
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: was watching a bit of that Northern game. Simon Parker
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: probably didn't dominate in the same fashion. But you look
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: at Frizzell and others that go back. Cortes Rasma was
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: very good for Waikato. You can see the touches of class.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: You can, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Looks outstanding at
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: NPC level. Yeah, Leicester find a little bit off the
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: head knock together today as well. And Dave really wanted
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: to see him get more game time. So hopefully he's
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: back for this weekend. um but yeah it was great
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: for the competition it does create sort of like an
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: imbalance when those players come back in terms of you
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: know um and Taranaki have been flying with Josh Jacob
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: and and company coming back they didn't have a great
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: start to the season how will Taranaki now go in
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: the playoffs without the two Barrett brothers without Josh.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Jacob Jacob's a massive loss for them yeah.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: So that's going to be interesting in and of itself
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: so it does change the complexion of the competition for
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: it for a couple of weeks but in terms of
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: just what it brings to the The game, absolutely. It's
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: a real lift to the NPC. I heard an interview
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: with Bowden Barrett on Newstalk CB Taranaki over the weekend
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: and talking about the importance of him playing for Taranaki.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: It was the 30th anniversary of when the Naki won
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: the Shield. Obviously his old man was part of that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: He remembered the Shield coming to the car shed. He
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: remembered crying when they lost the Shield to Waikato a
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks later and just how important that's been
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: as part of it. So the more we can get
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks Playing in the NPC, I think, the better.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And this points to this wider discussion around the future
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: of New Zealand's rugby pathways. They're not going to get
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: rid of the NPC. They're not going to really get
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: rid of Super Rugby. There is room, I think, for
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: both to coexist, but it just needs to be done
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: in a smarter financial way.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, look, the NPC still remains the envy of a
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: lot of nations around the world in terms of your
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: ability to give players game time, keep that production line
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: ticking along. And yeah, the, you know, defense is optional sometimes,
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: or it might not be that the highest quality, but, um,
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: it's still the heartbeat of the game. It's still passionately followed,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: whether that be largely on television. But, um, when you
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: do get these All Blacks filtering back, you can see
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: just how much it means to them, because even though
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: a lot of them don't spend a lot of time, um,
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: playing for them, uh, it still resonates and you never
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: forget where you come from and and where's home.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah absolutely and i think a couple of years ago
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: it probably was drifting a little bit the npc now
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: that's been helped by the ramfley shield and the way
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: it's moved over the last couple of seasons all blacks
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: coming back and various things it just feels like last
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: couple of seasons have really reinvigorated the interest in the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: npc um around the country so long may that continue
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: and um you know for pretty big quarterfinals to look
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: forward to this weekend, and hopefully Canterbury comes down on top.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: Absolutely not.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, right. Before we go, just finally, look, some sad
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: news for the rugby journalism fraternity last week. Phil Gifford,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: colleague of both of ours, passing away, you know, one
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: of the, you know, great all-rounders, I think, around, you know,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: media in New Zealand. I grew up listening to him
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: on radio in Christchurch with Simon Barnett, and, you know,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the You wouldn't have known he was a sports journalist there.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: It was only later when you read his books. I
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: think he wrote Todd Blackadder's and Robbie Dean's and Canterbury
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Rugby books. But he really did it all. And we
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: both knew him quite well. you know when he worked
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: at Newstalk ZB for a number of years got on
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: very well with Phil and um would speak about rugby
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: and various things and seeing him post test matches you
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: know debrief the matches and various things so um always
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: look forward to reading his copy and what he came
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: up with and um yeah just a hell of a
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: nice guy and I think what sort of left a
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: mark was that he had time for everyone in the
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: industry he was exactly the same person on mic as
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: he was off mic and um You know, whether you
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: were new to the industry or a veteran, he sort
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: of gave you the time of day. So, yeah, quality
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: human and thoughts with his family.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. Well said. Phil was a great man.
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: And what you say there about him always having time,
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: always regaling you with a tale. Similarly, I grew up
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: reading the Sunday Star Times and his copy and even
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: In recent times, there'd.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: Be little nuggets of historical gold.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: His recall of certain interactions with people was magic. He
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: could take you back to a certain time and place
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: that few others could. And yeah, across the sporting spectrum,
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: his relationship with Val Adams and others, you saw Wayne
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: Smith come out and have some beautiful words as well.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: So he touched a lot of people and he was
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: very good to me.
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, spoke to him on the phone a lot and
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: at test matches. So a real doyen of New Zealand sport.
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: He'll be missed, and certainly thoughts go out to his wife, Jan,
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: and family.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. That will do us for Rugby Direct for our
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: early pod for the week. You can get in touch
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: with us, of course, rugbydirectatnewstalkzb.co.nz. Haven't checked the mailbag for
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: a few weeks, so I might have to get our producer,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Mark Kelly, to see what's in there. But if you
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: do have any thoughts or questions, feel free to fire
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: them through rugbydirectatnewstalkzb.co.nz. We are back on Thursday, Rugby Direct
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: powered by Forklift Solutions. lifting you and your business to
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: a higher level.