Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #28 - Why Mosquitos Bite You More Than Other People | Dr Veronique Paris [UniMelb]

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#28 - Why Mosquitos Bite You More Than Other People | Dr Veronique Paris [UniMelb] · The Shed Organics Show

0:00
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Shared
0:04
Organics show. My name is Jordan and today we
0:08
have an exciting guest who specializes in none other than
0:14
mosquitoes, something that we do face quite a fair bit of here in
0:19
Australia and especially up here in QLD.
0:23
Now Doctor Veronique Paris is a medical entomologist working at
0:28
the University of Melbourne and she works on understanding
0:32
vector species of mosquitoes and how they transmit some of the
0:38
viruses and diseases that we come into contact with through
0:43
our mosquito populations. Now she is looking into all
0:48
sorts of things about managing populations, managing or
0:52
adapting ecosystems, and also prevention methods like
0:56
chemicals and the various different chemicals that are
0:59
used for control of certain populations and how we can maybe
1:04
look at either more targeted approaches or trying to reduce
1:08
the need for fogging or chemical sprays at all.
1:12
Now we answer some of the more obvious questions about the
1:16
impact of mosquitoes on certain humans and why some people get
1:21
attacked more than others and the methodology behind all of
1:25
that and breeding mosquitoes and creating breeding grounds in
1:29
your own home. So it's so much to touch on a
1:32
very interesting conversation and I can't wait for you guys to
1:37
hear it. So without further ado, this is
1:40
Doctor Veronique Paris from the University of Melbourne.
2:01
But I thought the first thing that I could ask you, that's
2:03
probably the most pressing question on everybody's mind, is
2:06
why do some people get attracted by or two mosquitoes?
2:12
Or why are mosquitoes attracted to certain people more than
2:16
others? Is it something to do with where
2:18
they're from? Is it something to do with what
2:21
type of blood they have, what they had for breakfast?
2:24
How come some people get bitten more than others?
2:28
Yeah, that is indeed a question I get asked very often, which is
2:31
fair enough. I have to say though, as a full
2:35
transparency at the start, I think this is not as researched
2:38
as well as people think. So all of the things they're
2:42
going to say are kind of taken with a grain of salt, that it's
2:45
something that might change if we find or if a study finds a
2:49
different outcome. A second thing I need to say
2:52
before I dive into it is this is probably very different between
2:55
different mosquitoes species. And I think people often, I hear
2:59
that's often that people kind of are surprised that the more than
3:02
one mosquito, they're like thousands of different mosquito
3:06
species and about, you know, sort of hundred of them would
3:09
feed on humans. Not all of them feed on humans
3:11
either. So it is, I can't be generalized
3:15
across every mosquito species and the ones that are studied in
3:19
terms of how attractive there are to different people are
3:23
usually done on one or two mosquito species.
3:25
So we're generalizing a lot here from like a little bit of
3:28
research that's been done on this.
3:30
That being said, that being said, so mosquitoes are firstly
3:34
interested or attracted to CO2 that we breathe out and body
3:38
heat. That's the number two things,
3:41
you know, So if you exercise and be sweaty and like, you know,
3:46
exhale out of CO2, you will be more attractive to mosquitoes.
3:50
So this is just like a thing if you go for a run or whatever and
3:53
then sit down in the backyard in summer, you will probably be a
3:56
lot more attracted like run down by mosquitoes than if you just
4:02
sit there by yourself if you like rested.
4:05
However, the difference between people seem to not really be
4:08
related to their blood type. It doesn't seem to be related
4:11
to, you know, if you're vegan or vegetarian or an omnivore person
4:17
in your dietary. That really seemed to not be a
4:20
main factor. It might, you know, change it a
4:22
little bit, but not to the point where people would really notice
4:25
it. There was a great study that
4:27
came out last year in the journal Cell that has shown that
4:31
it's related to acids that we are producing on our skin.
4:37
That's like skin odors that are different between different
4:40
people and they're followed different people over a couple
4:44
of years. And the person that was always
4:47
more attractive to mosquitoes stayed more attractive to
4:50
mosquitoes throughout the entire study over multiple years.
4:53
So obviously, if you do that so often, people do eat different
4:57
things and go out the night before.
4:59
So it really seems to be so consistent that it's more
5:03
genetically driven than it is driven by your habits.
5:08
So it seems like, you know, genetically, you're genetically
5:11
programmed to just have a different array of sort of skin
5:13
odors that you produce as a human.
5:16
And that seems to be the difference that it makes for
5:19
mosquitoes in terms of who they want to bite more than others.
5:24
Again, that was a one mosquito species.
5:26
So not sure if that's true for all of them.
5:28
Maybe there's a mosquito species that hates all of these odors
5:31
that that studied species really likes.
5:35
So, you know, again, take this with a grain of salt, but it
5:37
seems to just be what sort of skin odors that come out of the
5:40
pores of the skin that seems to be the the driving factor.
5:44
OK, I've heard is it is it something called carboloxic acid
5:48
or something? Yes, correct.
5:50
Carbolic acids are the ones that were studied again you know,
5:54
might be different acids as well, might not just be those.
5:58
But with that in that given that there is a study out there, we
6:02
can say that is it a, you know, definite thing that drives
6:06
attractiveness in that mosquito species, which doesn't mean
6:09
they're not other skin acids that are also at play.
6:12
And, you know, there were earlier studies that showed that
6:15
the sort of bacterial composition on people's skins
6:18
are also part of the attractiveness, which might also
6:23
just be, you know, because they consume some of these acids
6:26
that, you know, if you have a lot of procurial species that
6:29
consume those acids of your skin, you might be less
6:31
attractive. But now I'm just hypothetizing
6:34
here. So yeah, as you can see, it's
6:36
not as clearly studied as we would think, but there were lots
6:39
of studies done on blood types and they really seemed to not
6:42
have any play in there. And it and it does make sense
6:46
because the mosquito won't be able to pick up any sort of odor
6:49
from your blood directly because it does it buried in your body.
6:54
So it's not like if you have an open wound, you'd be like
6:58
covered in mosquitoes. You know, well, that's, that's
7:01
such an interesting point because you're right.
7:03
If, if there's something like for example, here in Australia,
7:08
we and definitely up here in Queensland, we have probably a
7:13
larger amount of mosquitoes that we see around, especially near
7:17
the coastal areas and areas where there are bodies of water
7:21
or even inland, I suppose have bodies of water where these
7:24
mosquitoes and can breed. And we might talk about these
7:27
types of things in a little bit, but if you've got a whole bunch
7:31
of mosquitoes in the area and probably more mosquitoes than
7:36
humans and then there's a demand for the food supply.
7:41
And if there's if we're talking about a species that does feed
7:44
on human beings blood and they are looking for that, there's
7:49
got to be something that is drawing them in to say, here is
7:53
where your food source, whether it's built into their mechanisms
7:57
that they can recognize this, whether it is those acids on the
8:01
skin that they they think, OK, that particular acid results in
8:07
US feeding and getting some blood.
8:10
What do you think it is? If you had to either use what
8:13
you already know or hypothesize about what it could be, What are
8:19
the mosquitoes actually picking up on that lets them zero in to
8:25
say this is a human being and this is where I can feed.
8:29
I suppose you can use that for the animals as well and whether
8:31
there's something, you know what, what are they picking up
8:35
that's they're coming in and saying this is where I'm feeding
8:38
from. Yeah, that's a good question.
8:41
I think it's mainly, you know, if they, if they adopted to feed
8:45
on humans, they do look for body heat 1st and then it's probably
8:49
sort of a measure of like how much of A hot thing is there
8:52
because you know, as a human, there is more than you're just a
8:57
bigger person than a dog, for example.
9:00
And then probably fur comes into play as well.
9:03
So I think it's so it's kind of like a radio.
9:05
So it's like far distance, it's body heat and then they come
9:10
closer. It's like, yes, it's a living
9:11
thing because there's also COH 2 involved.
9:13
So it's like, you know, those two things tick and then I think
9:16
it's more like the the sort of close range that then the body
9:22
acids and stuff come into play. So I think, you know, you can
9:26
maybe, you know, mosquitoes that don't necessarily want to feed
9:29
on humans, they probably still get thrown in by the body heat
9:31
and the CO2 and then they're going to be probably put off by
9:35
your skin odors or something more specific to humans.
9:38
What exactly that is will probably differ between the
9:41
species. And I have to say, I'm going to
9:44
say that often because part of my research, because I'm
9:47
researching sort of understudied mosquito species in Australia,
9:50
well is, is that you can't generalize between species.
9:54
Because I found that if we just use, you know, the very well
9:58
studied mosquitoes like the daily fee bone malaria mosquito
10:01
as like a proxy for all other mosquitoes.
10:03
We run into issues when it comes to all things downstream.
10:07
If you want to control them, if you want to learn how they
10:09
transmitted the transmit pathogens and things like that.
10:12
So I'm gonna probably say a lot. Well, that will probably differ
10:16
between mosquitoes because that's kind of like a thing that
10:18
I'm doing now for six years. Yeah, yeah, fair.
10:21
Fair enough, Fair enough. Because you're right, there is
10:23
so much very variation between species and of any kind insects
10:29
incredibly have so many different species and, and
10:33
there's variation amongst the, the different types.
10:36
So I imagine, you know, you even within Australia, we, we have
10:40
the midgie versus the mosquito and, and the difference between
10:45
between those two. Just going back to the actual
10:50
say, the one I want to be really specific with the ones that are
10:55
impacting human beings a lot more just to start with.
10:59
So if we're sitting outside, it's the, the heat of the sun
11:05
and the wind has gone away and the mosquitoes can come out and
11:09
they're looking for a feed and we're all sitting around.
11:12
The mosquitoes are landing on us.
11:14
They've obviously attract like they realize that this is where
11:18
they can get some of the the blood that they need.
11:21
Talk me through the process of what they're actually doing to
11:23
get that out of you. Are they sticking a a needle
11:27
thing into your blood vessel and pulling it out?
11:30
And then why does it leave us with this itch?
11:34
Yes, so they are sticking a little needle thing into your
11:38
skin. It's called the popuscus.
11:39
That's like their mouth part that they're used for feeding.
11:42
And it there's actually like great videos online where you
11:45
can like where there was video footage of like the popuscus
11:49
kind of wiggling around under the skin to find the blood
11:51
vessel. So they're not just like blindly
11:54
poking. There are sort of they, and you
11:57
know, I'm doing this for work. If you, if you feed them, you
12:00
can see that they're kind of sit and probe around a little bit
12:03
before they're actually settle on a spot and really sort of put
12:06
the preposkers in properly. Because they're through their
12:10
free, their little feet. And for the preposkers, they're
12:13
able to sort of suss out where the best black vessel is and how
12:17
they can reach it. And then they're kind of poke it
12:20
in and start blood feeding from there.
12:22
And in order to get that, they inject some of the saliva, which
12:27
has enzymes in it that stops your, you know, blood vessel
12:31
from like coagulating straight away so that the blood is easier
12:35
for them to suck up basically. And that is what leaves you with
12:40
an itch. And that is also how they inject
12:43
sort of pathogens back into what they feed on.
12:48
And it's not actually that stuff that saliva doesn't itched, it's
12:52
your immune response to it. So your body is like, what hell
12:56
is that? And then sends a whole bunch of,
12:58
you know, immune effectors out to see what's happening.
13:01
And that is what makes it itchy. And that is also probably why
13:06
some people have stronger reactions than others because
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their immune response to the saliva is different.
13:14
So, and that is also maybe back to the first point a little bit
13:18
like why are some people more attractive to mosquitoes than
13:21
others? Some people think they're not
13:23
attractive to mosquitoes just because they don't react to
13:26
mosquito bites. And that doesn't necessarily
13:29
mean that they don't get bitten. They just don't react at all.
13:33
So they think like, oh, I can sit out there and my girlfriend
13:36
is always itching, but I'm fine. Or, you know, all of my, all of
13:41
you know, all of my friends are always like, Oh my God, you have
13:43
so many mosquitoes in your garden and I don't get bitten,
13:47
which might be true, but that person might also get bitten
13:50
just as much. But doesn't, you know, react to
13:53
the bites? Yeah.
13:54
So they're not like someone might have a really big immune
13:57
response and then this sort of covered in these big itchy bites
14:02
and someone isn't and then they're sort of they might have
14:06
already been bitten, but their body is not sending this huge
14:08
immune response. That's really good point to
14:11
make. What are the differences between
14:16
a a mosquito and a midgee? And is there, is that the right
14:19
name for it? A midgee?
14:22
Yeah. So that yes, they're biting and
14:24
non biting midgets, that's what we would call them midgets.
14:28
And they're you know, they do look like mosquitoes and some of
14:31
them, the ones that do bite can be vector species as well.
14:36
So they might also vector disease, but non biting midgets
14:41
are, you know, as the name suggests, they're not biting
14:43
anybody. They're just flying around
14:45
getting everyone worked up because they look like
14:47
mosquitoes, you know, then they're also like the terror.
14:51
So that also flies. So they're kind of closely
14:54
related, but they're not the same thing, obviously.
14:58
So we get often sent pictures from or I, I do a lot of sort of
15:04
breeding site surveillance in sort of urban areas and people
15:07
do point midgets out to me. It's like we have a big mosquito
15:10
problem, but then they're midgets.
15:13
So, you know, for, for like the, the general public, fair enough.
15:17
They do look like the same thing, but you know, it's not
15:21
really worth worthwhile explaining the difference is
15:24
because you can't need to be quite close to them and have
15:27
them land on you look at them in order to, like, work out what's
15:30
what. Yeah.
15:31
And I'm doing this because I'm a mosquito nerd.
15:33
So if I have mosquitoes land on me, I will let them sit so that
15:37
I can ID the species and know what it is, which I wouldn't
15:41
recommend. You know, you, I would like, you
15:44
know, especially the way I always squish it because you
15:45
don't want to get bitten. So, so I would, I would be like,
15:49
Oh, this is the Midget. And like if I'm sitting in the
15:51
yard with my friends, I would always try to explain, but by
15:54
the time I'm there, they're already flown away.
15:57
It's kind of, you know, I think like if as a general person
16:00
sitting in the yard, he won't be able to to help if it's a
16:04
Midget, if it's a mosquito, if in doubt, think it's a mosquito,
16:07
I'd, I'd say. Yeah.
16:09
And I mean, I imagine the result is probably pretty similar.
16:13
You're going to become itchy and they're going to feed on your
16:16
blood etcetera, etcetera. It's the similar type of thing.
16:18
So in terms of what they're what, what difference we're
16:22
looking for is minimal, which is the case.
16:27
Yes, I would say every insect that you know will eventually
16:30
maybe feed on you, maybe just, you know, treat them all the
16:34
same. Yeah, exactly.
16:36
Right. Well, and one thing you did
16:38
mention is that you sort of sit there and let them land on you.
16:42
And I've noticed on your Instagram a video of you just
16:45
putting your arm in at the lab and letting them feed on you,
16:49
Correct. Is that right?
16:50
Yeah. Yeah, that is right.
16:52
Can you tell me a little bit about why first and foremost
16:59
you're you let them do that and and how how do you react to
17:03
having loads of mosquitoes biting you at the same time?
17:07
Yeah. So we've had mosquito colonies
17:10
here in in the lab that we do experiments on like so in order
17:14
to learn things about mosquitoes, you kind of need to
17:16
study them and have them around. And they obviously need to block
17:20
feeds to maintain them because otherwise they won't lay eggs.
17:25
So we blood feed a subset of colonies on our own blood.
17:31
So it's not just me, it's some of my colleagues as well because
17:34
that's literally the easiest and the most natural way of feeding
17:39
them. We do have an artificial blood
17:43
feeding system that we use for colonies that you can't blood
17:46
feed on a human volunteer because you know, there might be
17:49
from overseas, we're not quite sure, you know, what the disease
17:52
risk if etcetera. So we do have a bio security lab
17:56
where we have those colonies and they've been fed with, you know,
17:59
you give them you, you have a little thing with artificial
18:03
skin on top and you fill it with human blood and then you warm
18:06
the blood up to body temperature and let them feed on that.
18:09
The problem with this is not all species like to feed on that
18:14
because it's quite unnatural. It is very time consuming.
18:18
Have having done it myself very much for a very long time, very
18:23
time consuming and it's expensive because, you know, you
18:25
need to get the blood, you need to get like artificial skin, et
18:30
cetera. And on top of that, we have
18:32
found that there might be adaptations of the mosquito
18:36
colonies to that blood feeding system.
18:39
So if we want to breed mosquitoes and then actually do
18:42
like, you know, experiments with them, how they would react to
18:45
something in the wild, then that might be biased by them being
18:51
fed for so many generations on that unnatural blood feeding
18:55
system. Right.
18:56
Sorry, and to overcome all of this, we do, we do feed the
19:00
colonies that we can on ourselves, which I have like,
19:04
look, I have to admit, when I first started here, I thought
19:07
that was a joke when people said like that's what they're doing.
19:11
I'm like, yeah, sure. It's like you just got to you're
19:13
just going to wind up a little European girl that just started
19:17
video lab and then and then I kind of grown into it.
19:20
I like I saw people do it and people were like, well, you
19:24
don't need to like it's all volunteer based.
19:26
Like you absolutely don't need to.
19:28
I didn't do it for for a while and then I was kind of like
19:30
intrigued. It kind of sparked sort of
19:33
interesting. And I'm like, oh, at least want
19:34
to give it a try, right? Because like I'm working on
19:37
these colonies, I'm doing experiments with them.
19:39
I want to do it myself at least once.
19:41
And then I worked out that I'm actually not reacting that much
19:44
to mosquito wipes. So I've tried it with like, you
19:47
know, a handful of mosquitoes and that was fine.
19:51
It was itchy. It's itchy straight away after.
19:53
And then it kind of just sort of disappeared within a day or two.
19:56
And then it kind of escalated from there.
19:59
I'm like, oh, it's fine. I had this, you know, I did my
20:02
PHDI had these massive experiments planned.
20:04
And it was just logistically so much easier for me to just beat
20:08
all of my own colonies rather than, you know, schedule with
20:11
someone else. Yes.
20:13
And then it just kind of stuck and over time I started reacting
20:17
even less. And now if I feed a couple of
20:20
colonies, I made a video like this on my, on my Instagram as
20:24
well right after. It does look a bit horrible and
20:27
it is itchy and you kind of really have to try and distract
20:30
yourself because the second you, you itch, you make it worse.
20:34
And then like an hour or two later, it's like gone and you
20:37
couldn't see that it happened, which is kind of me adapting to
20:41
it. And I'm always intrigued, but my
20:43
immune system does. And I always want to collaborate
20:46
with an immunologist working out what the hell is happening
20:49
because that's very interesting. And yeah, since then, I'm just
20:53
doing it. It doesn't bother me because it
20:55
does go away quickly. And it's now just, like, sort of
20:58
part of my weekly routine. It's amazing.
21:02
But yeah, look at, you know, And now, like, having people ask me,
21:05
like, how the heck did that happen?
21:07
Like, how do you start a thing like this?
21:09
It's kind of funny to look back because I'm like, yeah, like,
21:12
yeah, I remember I did think they were like they were messing
21:15
with me and now I'm doing it myself.
21:18
Yeah, you're right. And like that was one of my
21:20
questions is that I was thinking of during that is do you build
21:24
up some sort of immunity? Because I imagine your immune
21:27
response gets trained to deal with this a lot better and can
21:32
sort of come in and knows exactly what it's doing, comes
21:35
in, it's routine. I imagine a lot of people
21:37
probably do get bitten weekly anyway, just living their lives,
21:43
but you're deliberately going in there and, and feeding them and
21:46
everything. And as you say, it's natural.
21:48
And if you're aware that there's no disease risk, then you're
21:54
pretty happy and safe doing it. Now that does lead me into the
21:59
question about disease risk and the carrying capacity of
22:04
mosquitoes to carry certain pathogens and, and various
22:08
different viruses, diseases, things like this.
22:12
I remember when I had to go overseas and it's, it's, it's
22:19
quite prevalent when you go overseas and you're going to be
22:22
visiting areas that have things like I think Genghi fever and,
22:26
and things like this or however you say it.
22:29
Can you tell me a little bit about your work with with
22:33
pathogen carrying mosquitoes? And why is it that mosquitoes
22:41
carry these things? Or is it just a matter of the
22:44
fact that they're transferring blood to blood and they're
22:47
basically putting thing they're putting needles into you so that
22:50
it's almost like sharing needles around with with other people.
22:54
Is that is that kind of sum it up nicely?
22:59
There's a bit to unpack here. So first of all, it is, it is
23:03
not sort of a shared needle experience for most pathogens
23:08
that are transmitted. That's good too.
23:10
So, so it's so a mosquito can feed in the same sort of feed on
23:15
me a little bit gets interrupted, comes over and
23:17
feeds on you a little bit. But they're cleaning their
23:20
prepositors and stuff in between.
23:22
So it's not like you get actually in contact with my
23:24
blood. It is.
23:26
It is more so that and that that depends on the pathogen.
23:32
For a virus infection, usually it means, you know, I have
23:38
dengue, a mosquito bites me, picks up the virus and then the
23:43
virus actually needs to infect the mosquito.
23:45
So it it infects the gut tissue of mosquitoes and then
23:51
replicates and then makes it back into the saliva glands,
23:54
which is what they inject into what we touched on earlier,
23:57
right. So if they bite you, they inject
23:59
the saliva and this is what those viruses sort of exploit
24:05
because they want to go to their next host.
24:07
So they infect the mosquito. The mosquito also depends again
24:10
on the virus has some fitness effects from this as well.
24:13
So they, there's Safa, if you want to call it that, from the
24:17
infection as well, but not as much as the actual host.
24:21
Then, you know, it's a complicated matter because some
24:24
of those viruses need an intermediate host that we call a
24:27
reservoir. So it needs to, that's for
24:31
viruses like Japanese encephalitis virus, for example,
24:35
that goes through a bird. So a mosquito, you know, feeds
24:39
on a bird, gets that virus, gets the infection in inside of
24:45
itself replicate, like the virus replicates and then bites a
24:48
human or a pig or another animal.
24:51
And other animals get Japanese encephalitis as well and then
24:54
inject that virus into the next host.
24:57
So now it can't really happen that you get bitten when you
25:03
have Japanese encephalitis virus and then it goes to the next
25:06
human straight away. It kind of meets that
25:08
intermediate host. And that's also true for things
25:11
like Ross River virus, for example.
25:13
They are all sort of viruses that need an intermediate host.
25:16
So it gets a bit more complicated and they're usually
25:21
those viruses are usually transmitted by a variety of
25:25
mosquito species. While if you have a sort of
25:27
human to human virus like dengue fever that doesn't need an
25:34
intermediate host, so it can just go from mosquito bites, you
25:38
have some time to develop the infection.
25:40
Bites me has the virus transmitted and that's why they
25:45
are so adapted to like human biting mosquitoes.
25:48
And so there is a whole Co evolution going on of the virus
25:52
wanted to be most effectively spread to the virus to the host
25:57
that it can thrive in. So it has adapted to exploit
26:01
those human biting mosquitoes exclusively.
26:05
Then it gets more complicated if you look at things like malaria,
26:09
which is not a virus, which is, you know, a parasite, which also
26:13
needs to go for an intermediate host.
26:16
And yes, so it's a bit more complicated and complex than I
26:20
think people appreciate. Honestly, even that I
26:23
appreciated when I started working mosquitoes because I do
26:26
work on disease vectors, but I'm not working on the disease
26:29
itself. I'm just working on sort of the
26:33
ecological features that those mosquitoes come with to inform
26:39
population control interventions and honestly also to do lot lot.
26:43
Lots of my works are sort of fundamental research to learn
26:46
about evolution in widespread mosquito species, how they're
26:51
like adapted to different environments and things like
26:53
that. And then it kind of sort of
26:56
throughout my work that I've moved more into the public
26:59
health space that I then learned a lot more about how is like
27:04
pathogen transmission actually happens and is facilitated by
27:09
vector mosquitoes. And it's fascinating.
27:11
Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's terrible and it's, it's, it's,
27:15
it's a big problem. And obviously like people suffer
27:18
and we want to stop that. But if you look at it from a
27:21
like biological point of view, it's fascinating how it's
27:24
evolved to be like that. And it's also fascinating how
27:28
it's, how it differs between different viruses, between
27:30
different mosquito species. And it's also quite fascinating
27:34
how little we actually know about that because, you know,
27:37
when you hear it in, in, in the media, there's, you know, things
27:42
like Japanese encephalitis break out.
27:44
The first question that people are going to ask is like, oh,
27:46
what mosquito species transmits it?
27:49
And we just have kind of, you know, we're guessing which
27:53
species are sort of associated with fighting the right hosts
27:57
and are, you know, abundant and high numbers so that people are
28:03
actually interacting with them a lot.
28:05
Because proper vector competency experiments where you have an,
28:10
you know, where you have an experimental setup where you
28:13
infect the mosquito with the virus and then try and get this
28:16
mosquito that you infected and you know, it's infected, try to
28:20
infect another host. Those are very expensive and
28:23
difficult to run and they're not run for a lot of species.
28:27
Like it's, that was kind of like an aha moment for me in the last
28:30
couple of years. And I'm like, we just, it's like
28:34
there's lots of guessing involved because there's not
28:37
enough funding available to like do those experiments for every
28:40
mosquito species that might bite a human.
28:44
So it's quite, yeah. Long story short, it's complex
28:47
and very interesting part of sort of vector biology.
28:54
And it's a lot more complicated than one might think.
28:57
And if you look at it, sorry, I'm just wrapping up, but if you
29:00
if you, if you look at it as like, you know, how often like
29:04
how disease outbreak happens like that, it's actually quite
29:09
such a frequent problem, but it is has such a complex biology
29:14
underlining it. But it's like, it's just
29:17
fascinating how how this evolved.
29:18
It's like, you know, as I said, it's like it's terrible that
29:21
people get mosquito bore diseases.
29:23
But like from a my logical point of view, I can't not be amazed
29:27
about it. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
29:28
Finally, you almost have to look at the intent and the, I guess
29:35
the pathways in which these viruses or, or certain diseases
29:39
are trying to get to that end goal, whether it's to get into a
29:44
host or whatever. And, and how, you know, certain
29:47
parasites will have, I'm going to butcher this a little bit,
29:51
but there are certain parasites that come into to various
29:55
animals will get, I think it's like they, they, they want to
29:58
get to a certain animal. So they'll kind of go through
30:01
something else and they might even change the brain chemistry
30:03
or change the thought pattern, alter all of these things so
30:06
that that host that they're in will get to the next one that
30:09
they're trying to get to. So you're right, it has so many
30:13
complex different avenues of, of how that works.
30:16
It, it makes me think about the role of mosquitoes in our
30:23
natural ecosystems. Because as a gardener and as AI
30:28
guess a general naturalist myself, I like to look at the
30:32
full ecosystem and have an understanding of every part to
30:37
play that these insects and mammals, plants all have in the
30:41
general cycle of life. Now, from my understanding, a
30:47
lot of insects have the role of some form of either
30:53
decomposition where they're coming in to take out certain
30:57
things in nature that aren't doing so well.
31:00
So primarily in the garden, when we haven't got our healthiest
31:05
crop or it's out of season, they're sending signals off to
31:09
these insects to come in and take out those unhealthy plants.
31:14
Now, I don't know how mosquitoes fit into our ecosystems and what
31:21
role they have as a insect in that ecosystem.
31:28
Is the is their primary role maybe just guessing here,
31:33
transferring certain things from something to another?
31:37
It's almost some messenger way of getting viruses, pathogens,
31:42
bacteria, whatever it may be around the ecosystem.
31:46
What do you know about their role in the ecosystem and how
31:50
they play a role in this general overall cycle of life?
31:55
So first of all, I would say a big role of mosquitoes is being
32:01
a fruit source, especially as they're larval stage because you
32:04
know, they have half of their life as aquatic.
32:08
So you know, frogs sort of Ted pulls and fish and whatnot are
32:13
feeding on it. And they're also kind of feeding
32:16
on little bits and pieces that would otherwise maybe, you know,
32:20
contaminate water if it gets out of control.
32:22
So they're feeding on things and they're being fed on as an
32:26
adult. They are also quite important
32:28
pollinators, which lots of people under appreciate.
32:31
So especially male must male mosquitoes will not bite a
32:34
human, right? So they, they entire energy
32:37
source is being sourced from nectar from plants.
32:41
So they feed on nectar. Female mosquitoes will also feed
32:44
on nectar, but not quite as much because, you know, they, they're
32:47
going to get their protein from somewhere else, obviously.
32:51
But but both males and females will feed on on nectar.
32:54
So they are pollinating plants. And as an adult, they're also
32:58
also a food source because, you know, adult frogs will feed on a
33:02
mosquito. Some of them can get quite
33:05
large. So they're like, you know,
33:06
especially if something feeds on a just blood fed mosquito, that
33:10
is also quite a good food source.
33:13
So even though we find, you know, they're quite small, if
33:16
you look at things that feed on insects, that's quite a good
33:19
food source, especially because they're also mostly appears on a
33:23
higher numbers. So if you feed on a whole bunch
33:26
of mosquitoes, then that's probably a yummy meal for
33:29
someone. So these are all sort of like
33:32
the more sort of obvious ecological contributions, I'd
33:37
say. And then, yeah, I mean, you can
33:40
get a bit philosophical, right? And be like, well, you know,
33:43
we're like overpopulating the the planet.
33:46
And maybe the mosquito scroll is to, you know, keep a population
33:49
in check by by killing parts of us off with some viruses that
33:54
they transmit. That is kind of something that
33:57
you know, you will never be able to to prove or disprove.
34:01
That's just something that you know, you can think about.
34:03
We're just like, well, you know, they're always diseases and that
34:07
if you have and they're RIP through populations, if they if
34:11
they get out of control and you see this everywhere, right?
34:13
This is something that you learn in in sort of your first year
34:16
bachelor biology. It's like, you know, you always
34:19
have that sort of a population that's really healthy and gets
34:23
upwards in numbers and then something happens and it either
34:26
gets eaten or there's a disease outbreak and then it gets
34:30
brought back to numbers. So usually every sort of natural
34:33
population goes for this sort of loop of doing really well and
34:38
then something's happening. So, you know, you could you
34:41
could think of disease or like vector species in that way that
34:44
they're sort of part of nature's kind of, you know, keep, keep
34:47
numbers in check business. But then again, you know, like
34:53
don't quote me on it. It's just like it's, it's sort
34:57
of, you know, if you want to look at it from a more sort of
34:59
philosophical point of view. And then obviously lots of
35:02
people ask me like, can we just like eradicate or the
35:06
mosquitoes, We won't miss them. And you know, like, as I said,
35:11
there's so many species and they're just a handful that
35:13
actually cause or like transmit pathogens that cause a disease
35:17
in a human. And you could probably, if you,
35:20
if you could pick them out and make them go away, probably
35:25
another mosquito species would feel that niche because now, now
35:29
that virus still exists. And to have pathogen
35:33
transmission, you need 3 things. You need the pathogen, you need
35:36
the host, and you need a vector species.
35:38
And you can have a vector species and the host with no
35:40
pathogen and nothing will happen.
35:42
You can have the pathogen and the host with no vector, nothing
35:45
will happen. But eventually, if you take out
35:48
the vector species, another mosquito will feel that role.
35:52
That's one point. So you probably kind of need to
35:55
get rid of all of them and that and that then becomes an ethical
35:59
issue as much as a biological issue, right?
36:01
Like even if it wouldn't have any impact on the on the
36:06
environment and the ecological, you know, some other some other
36:10
aquatic insect fields that niche and gets eaten by something
36:13
else. Like should we do that anyways?
36:17
You know, it's like, it's it's that that I always kind of
36:20
discuss with people where it's like, well, you know, just
36:24
because we can and also we can't.
36:26
It's a complicated issue. But even if we could, should we?
36:30
Yeah, it's. I tend to agree with you.
36:33
I I'm in the camp of saying no, we shouldn't because I feel like
36:38
everything has its role, has its place, and as you say, it's
36:42
always looking for balance. So if something is coming out of
36:46
balance, something usually will bring it in to check or it will
36:50
fill the niche that is missing and it will always find that
36:55
balance. So I feel like coming in and
36:58
trying to play God essentially and you know, pick and choose
37:03
what we have isn't necessarily going to be the right thing.
37:06
And as you say, like we may think we know that it doesn't
37:10
have any effect or that we might not miss it, but we don't
37:14
actually know what consequence that will have down the line or
37:18
anything like that. Now that also makes me think of
37:23
population control methods, specifically around around us
37:30
here in Brisbane, there are quite a few areas with mangrove
37:35
sort of shore front areas and these areas tend to be very good
37:42
at breeding mosquitoes. Now, growing up in certain areas
37:47
around here, I've noticed in talking to people that certain
37:50
years there'll be more mosquito populations and everyone's
37:54
talking about, oh, there's so many mozzies around at the
37:56
moment. Now I've heard about a lot of
38:01
council and various other initiatives to control and spray
38:06
populations of mosquitoes. And I've seen them, they come in
38:10
with the helicopters and they put out these sprayers and they
38:14
literally are just flying over all the mango various spraying.
38:18
Now when I see things sprayed on a natural environment that kind
38:22
of makes me really not uncomfortable, sorry.
38:25
And I just, I'm not a fan of coming in with any kind of
38:30
chemical or any kind of yeah, treatment in that way.
38:34
Now, I understand that when populations get out of control,
38:38
it can cause issues for the humans that are living around
38:42
and suffering the consequence. But what control methods are
38:49
there that don't involve spraying?
38:51
And what's the kind of general thought from someone like
38:55
yourself and colleagues of yours about population control and the
39:00
goals of population control in these methods?
39:05
Yeah, again, a more complex question than one might think
39:09
because of different environments and different
39:12
mosquito species. Again, I I did warn you, I'm
39:14
going to say that A. Lot.
39:14
No, that's OK. I appreciate that, definitely.
39:18
So a couple of different things I can touch on.
39:20
One is way here our goal is to do like very targeted mosquito
39:27
control to have this like, you know, spraying and like fogging
39:31
of areas not be a thing that we need to rely on.
39:36
But that obviously differs a lot with the mosquito species and
39:39
the sort of environment we're working in.
39:42
I'm first sort of touch on what you've brought up with like
39:45
those tidal zones, those I I differently managed in different
39:51
areas and there's lots of great things done.
39:54
I've just visited an awesome mosquito person to look out for
39:59
who's also doing lots on social media.
40:01
Is Cameron wet from NSW And Hayes showed me around the
40:07
Sydney Olympic Park that was like already vegetated after the
40:11
Olympic Games. Like the sort of the Sydney
40:14
acquired that land to run the Olympics there and after this
40:17
has all got rewilded. So it's now all mangroves and
40:21
channel zones. And it's now like a great area
40:24
for people to, you know, relax in and go for walks.
40:28
And they had heaps of mosquito issues there because, you know,
40:32
some of those mangroves need to be properly managed because if
40:36
they have, you know, water come in at high tide and it can't
40:41
leave properly, then you have standing water there and then
40:44
you breathe more mosquitoes. And those tidals are mosquitoes.
40:47
They can emerge in like berserk numbers.
40:50
It's literally like you can't go into those areas because they're
40:53
just so many mosquitoes because they're all sort of, you know,
40:56
linked to that tidal cycle. So they're like, I've never seen
41:00
so many mosquitoes in one batch in my entire life.
41:03
It's like it's insane. And they and they relied on, you
41:08
know, helicopter spraying a lot there to make this because this
41:11
area was created to give it back to the community.
41:14
And then at certain parts of the life, the community couldn't use
41:17
it. And people are sort of live
41:19
close there. So some can't escape.
41:21
And it's so. It's a naturally sorry to
41:24
interrupt, it's a natural like a mangrove system is a naturally
41:28
evolved system. So I imagine when you're again
41:32
trying to create an environment that's not naturally going to
41:36
occur in that way, you're going to run into problems.
41:40
Yes, but they were now able to, you know, investigate what the
41:44
actual problem is and be able to connect those man grows better
41:49
to the actual open ocean. And now they don't have these
41:53
issues with have this water that is held back and don't have
41:58
these big surges in mosquito numbers.
41:59
So this is kind of like, you know, a very hands on sort of
42:02
Land Management way to overcome those those issues and not be
42:06
reliant on spraying, for example.
42:08
So that's sort of like what you can do in like a title area.
42:11
Obviously you can't do that everywhere and every sort of
42:14
coastal area will have its own challenges, but that's just as
42:16
an example where people done really good work to work out
42:20
where's the issue, how can we solve it and then hands on
42:23
actually solved it. So that's a nice a nice story to
42:27
share. And then there are the other
42:29
mosquitoes that kind of breeds more in for backyards, which
42:36
have a very different sort of lifestyle.
42:38
And we and, and they kind of really come in and breed in
42:41
everything that we leave out in our yard.
42:44
And they can be controlled in different ways, right?
42:46
There's lots of sort of source reduction campaigns.
42:50
Probably if if you're from Brisbane, you're probably seeing
42:53
some campaigns like this as well, which people are urged to
42:55
go and clean up their yards, especially after big rain events
42:59
because it's cuts, people keep being surprised in how little
43:03
water mosquitoes can breed. So this is, you know, and those
43:07
mosquito species, the one that you have up in QLD 8 is the
43:09
gypti. That's the dengue fever
43:11
mosquito. They really don't travel that
43:14
far as an adult. So basically the mosquitoes that
43:17
you have in your backyard up there, those dengue fever
43:20
mosquitoes, you, you and your neighbor's breed, it's like
43:25
it's, it's, it's not like they come from a different suburb.
43:27
It's like it's, it's really, if you have them in your yard, then
43:31
it's you and your neighbors that breed them.
43:33
So if you tip out all of your water and you're really diligent
43:36
about that, then you can make a big impact.
43:38
And it's actually like shouldn't be overstated how much of an
43:42
impact that can make. And I've seen myself, I've gone
43:45
up to cans to sample mosquitoes and there was a big rain event.
43:50
And I, I've seen like council cars that had like mosquito team
43:55
or something written on them that would go in like all the
43:59
sort of public spaces like car parks and things like that to
44:02
clean up all the leaves. Because even like leaves can
44:05
hold water and breed them to kind of clean up everything.
44:08
And that holds water. And it was quite impressed
44:09
because it's like, oh, it's quite organized, which makes
44:14
sense, you know, in an area that historically has dengue
44:16
problems. But I'm down here in Victoria
44:19
and we like we we are bits. I think we're bit spoiled
44:24
Historically, we don't really have sort of big surges of
44:28
mosquito borne diseases. But now it's like Japanese and
44:32
sepulitis and really also that I'm working on that skin
44:35
infection. We really kind of try and get
44:38
the same mindset sort of moved across the state, which like you
44:44
also need to clean up your garden.
44:46
So that's that's a big thing. And then those mosquitoes can
44:50
also be, we've got to touch on a little bit of how to do sort of
44:54
chemical control in a, in a more targeted way because I'm not
44:59
going to act like we're never going to use any chemicals.
45:02
I've done a trial, for example, with a sort of trap design where
45:09
mosquitoes lay their eggs in that trap and then pick up a
45:13
growth regulator that's called pyraproxyfen that a couple of
45:17
different sort of different chemicals on the market.
45:21
And what they do is they interrupt the the life cycle of
45:27
a mosquito. So they still happily live as
45:29
larvae and then they turn into puppy.
45:31
And then if they're once they're ready to emerge as an adult,
45:35
they can't, they kind of get stuck in their skin.
45:38
And then it's very targeted towards Diptera, like the genius
45:41
that they're like family that they're in.
45:44
But it's also very targeted towards mosquitoes because of
45:48
the way it's applicated because it is in a water holding bucket
45:54
that just mosquitoes coming to like nothing else would be
45:57
attracted to that. And it has like a lid.
46:00
So even like, you know, I've worked with them a lot.
46:02
The only sort of by catch we ever had in those where slugs
46:07
and snails and they don't get it affected by it at all.
46:10
So you kind of tip them out and say, well, you had your water,
46:14
now off you go. So that is a way where we can
46:18
use, you know, where we try to use chemicals, but in a targeted
46:24
and, you know, responsible way where it just spreads it from
46:28
where mosquito breeds to where mosquito breeds.
46:31
And yes, if you, if you apply this in a large scale and dunk
46:35
it into some water source, it might affect other, you know,
46:38
flies that breed in water, but that's not what we're doing
46:41
because we just give it in those little buckets.
46:44
So that's it's another point where we're trying to sort of
46:46
come to a good balance where we use some of those chemicals, but
46:51
we use them in a way where they have the least, we can't say no,
46:55
but where they have the least impact on the rest of the
46:58
environment. So these are sort of different
47:01
things. And then again we really quite
47:04
forward thinking here in Australia and other places.
47:06
You know if you go overseas on holidays, you've probably seen
47:10
big fogging happening. That's what we're trying to
47:13
overcome with other control methods.
47:17
You might have heard of the use of full backyard, a bacterium
47:22
that's used that will cool. OK.
47:25
So there is something that we call endosymbions.
47:29
These are bacteria that live in other organisms and have some
47:33
sort of relationship with that Organism.
47:37
And Vulvakia is kind of famous because it is affecting the sort
47:43
of phenotype of its host, not in all hosts, the different
47:46
difference between different hoists.
47:48
But I'm going to try to keep the surface level to just get
47:51
through this kind of otherwise I'm going to talk about this one
47:54
hour. And So what it does.
47:58
So we were able to get get full back here the bacterium from one
48:03
Organism into the dengue fever mosquito and it, and in that
48:07
mosquito, it blocks virus transmission.
48:11
So the mosquitoes live and it, it's been all sort of
48:17
horizontally transmitted from from mother to offspring.
48:21
So once the mother has it, all the offspring has it.
48:23
So this is how it spreads through the population.
48:26
And then if that if a, if a mosquito female with the
48:30
bacterium inside of her beats on an infected person, the virus
48:36
can't be transmitted to the next human.
48:40
So you can have full of mosquitoes still, you still have
48:42
a healthy population of mosquitoes, but they won't
48:45
transmit any pathogens to humans.
48:47
And that's actually happened up in in Queensland.
48:51
And this is how we've, you know, kept dengue cases up there low
48:57
because the most the most population mosquito population
49:01
is infected with this bacterium that spreads itself through the
49:04
population and stops far as transmission.
49:08
And these are things that are also done overseas, you know,
49:13
where. And it has its own challenges,
49:16
obviously. But if I get into it a little
49:18
bit, then we need to kind of open a whole new box.
49:21
But this is like another sort of natural approach of, well, if,
49:25
if the mosquitoes then can't transmit disease, then, you
49:28
know, yeah. We have, yeah, that's a great.
49:30
Thing sweet spot, yeah, we don't need to eliminate them, we don't
49:33
need to kill them. We don't need to spray
49:35
pesticides and and other chemicals.
49:38
We just make them all have this bacterium and everyone lives,
49:42
lives heavily ever after. Obviously not that
49:45
straightforward and easy, but yeah, that's another sort of
49:47
approach, yeah. I know what you mean.
49:49
That's that's great. It's promising that you able to
49:53
come up with these different techniques and methods of
49:56
actually really being targeted with what you're using so that
50:01
the, as you say, things like bycatch or just like general
50:06
flow on effects of of any of these chemical uses is not
50:10
damaging anything else. This, this may be kind of a
50:15
humorous question, but what do you think about genetically
50:19
modified or these robotic or whatever they're called
50:23
mosquitoes that are coming in, artificial intelligence
50:26
mosquitoes and things to come in and control just, I mean,
50:32
without going too far into it, just a surface level answer from
50:36
you would be awesome. What it What are your thoughts
50:38
on some of these modern technological approaches to
50:43
mosquitoes? Look, you know that you kind of
50:48
all put them in the same basket. Some of them have married, some
50:51
of them not so much. It's from my very personal
50:53
opinion. So, you know, like some of them
50:56
are great and, and I'm not against genetically modifying
51:01
something if it, you know, just sort of similar things to what
51:04
this Slovakia approach does, right?
51:06
It's kind of like a way of manipulating the population to
51:12
kind of erase what we don't want them to do without raising the
51:16
actual species. So, you know, generally I don't
51:20
have any issue with it. It's just like, you know, you
51:22
kind of need to see where the appropriate to use it, where
51:26
there may be better ways of doing it, etcetera.
51:28
But this is kind of more like a sort of technical question.
51:32
Otherwise, you know, like there are, for example, mosquito traps
51:37
that are designed for particular species because they're sort of
51:40
mimic their wing beat frequency. So they make like a sound that
51:45
this mosquito makes and then males are attracted to it
51:48
because they think this is where the females are to make with.
51:51
And I think like some of the sort of AI and robotic sort of
51:55
approaches are sort of based on a similar way, right?
51:57
Because they're like mimicking something to attract things.
52:01
So I'm not necessarily saying that they're not useful in a
52:04
way. It's just, you know, some,
52:06
sometimes it's been taken too far.
52:07
It's kind of a little bit funny, but you know, mostly those
52:11
things that kind of emerge with some sort of marriage and they
52:14
make sense and then they're kind of taken out of context by the
52:19
media or by people alike sometimes.
52:21
So if some of those things are absolutely legit ways and also
52:24
just like sort of trial and error kind of research where
52:27
it's like, I wonder if I can help with this.
52:30
And then someone, you know, creates a trap and that would
52:33
actually make sense in that particular publication.
52:37
But then, you know, the media picks out the fun bit and then
52:40
it sounds like, you know, or everyone's funding like this
52:43
clown research, you know, it's always, you know, I can't, I
52:47
know what you mean. A, a, a blanket statement of
52:50
like this is all rubbish or this is all awesome.
52:53
It's kind of every case is a little bit more complex than it
52:57
usually appears and. Yeah, you're right.
53:00
Yeah. And I think that's the, that's
53:02
the kind of what I was getting at is like the, yes, you're
53:07
right with all of those things with AI sort of thinking about
53:10
intelligent ways of trapping and, and using it to kind of
53:14
enhance our knowledge and and also have a little bit of more
53:17
control over it, I think is a really good thing.
53:20
And modifying some of the, the ways in which mosquitoes go
53:26
about their business can be really helpful as well.
53:30
What I was thinking of initially is like these kind of, I guess
53:34
lab mosquitoes where they're not, they're not a traditional
53:42
mosquito. It's a different species.
53:43
It's something that's introduced that is designed to carry
53:48
something and designed to go in and, you know, do something.
53:51
We're not quite aware of what the consequences are yet.
53:54
And those types of things can be.
53:57
Sometimes we're put in the cart before the horse.
53:58
We're trying to kind of be a little bit ahead of the game
54:01
when we're not really sure of the consequences or fully
54:04
understand it yet. But just interesting to get your
54:07
your perspective. Look, as we sort of round out
54:11
the conversation, I want to touch back on what you were
54:15
saying about people around the home and what they can do.
54:19
Because you mentioned that a lot of the time, most likely we're
54:23
breeding the mosquitoes in our backyards and with our
54:26
neighbors. So if you're in an area that
54:31
seems to have mosquitoes around your place a lot and you're
54:34
you're getting bitten, what are some ways that they can mitigate
54:40
breeding zones and try and remove some of these sources of
54:45
mosquitoes? Yeah, so one big thing is to
54:49
clean everything up that can hold water after it rains.
54:52
So that might sound easy, but I mean, I've done it myself, you
54:56
know, like when I moved house late last year, that's
54:59
stressful. So I just like, you know, dumped
55:02
some stuff on the side of my house and deal with it later.
55:05
And then I, I had some pots and whatnots that I left there and I
55:10
did actually break mosquitoes there.
55:11
This is when I like started on my Instagram to do a little like
55:14
will it mosquito series, because I'm like, this is, you know,
55:18
it's actually like the stuff that you don't necessarily think
55:21
about all the time. That's like if you put it out of
55:25
start out of mind kind of thing. So I find it always very useful,
55:28
like after it rained the next day, walk around my house and
55:31
see what collected water and try and deal with it.
55:34
Try to like turn it over. It's the easiest thing.
55:37
Throw it away if it's rubbish. And if it's something that you
55:41
can't like they want there, like, for example, like a saucer
55:45
under a pot plant, want that there, right?
55:48
But it will collect water and it will breed mosquitoes.
55:50
But you can put sand in it, for example, because that will, you
55:55
know, soak up the water and it still does the thing that you
55:59
want it to do, to not have water go everywhere and to have, you
56:02
know, some plants like to be, you know, have like wet feet for
56:05
a while. That is still a thing that then
56:08
happens. But it can't breed any
56:10
mosquitoes. So things like like that.
56:14
I've noticed in my own house that I have a storm water drain
56:18
at my front yard that has been installed incorrectly and that
56:22
holds water. And I'm actually in the process
56:25
of working out how to fix that and whose responsibility that
56:29
is, which is not necessarily the easiest thing in Australia
56:34
because it's like, it depends what council you live in.
56:38
You know, some of those are council managed, Melbourne Water
56:41
managed or there are managed, they're supposed to be managed
56:45
by the house owner. It's like it's, you know, and it
56:49
becomes even more complex when you're renting where it's like,
56:53
OK, so if it's the onus responsibility, can I do
56:58
something in the meantime to sort of, you know, partially fix
57:02
it or can I sort of force my landlord to deal with it?
57:04
Because it actually, you know, if you really push it, it's kind
57:07
of like a health risk if it, you know, and you can't really do
57:12
much about it because it will hold water and you can treat it
57:15
with, you know, this perproxifen for example, that I brought up
57:17
earlier. But if it then rains, they will
57:19
wash it out as well. So I'm like, I don't have a
57:23
definite answer for this yet, but I like, I'm really going
57:25
down that rabbit hole to work out sort of what I can then
57:29
suggest to others. Like, you know, and this is also
57:33
something like, why would you look in there?
57:34
It's like it's a storm water rain.
57:36
But I, I look in everything because, you know, I like my
57:39
brain goes to if there's water, there's basically mosquitoes.
57:43
That's just, you know, my basic assumption.
57:46
But not everyone lives that way, which is Pena.
57:48
And so, so lots of people will probably, even if they do their
57:53
best around their home and get rid of all of the sources and
57:57
play equipment and whatnot. And then they have that soma to
58:01
drain their breeds, mosquitoes for the whole block basically.
58:05
And they're not knowing that. So like these are things to
58:08
really look out for. On top of that, you know, if you
58:12
have a pond, maybe consider get some fish that's, you know, the
58:16
most natural way of dealing with mosquitoes.
58:19
I have a pond in my yard and I have fishies in there and they
58:23
haven't seen a single mosquito larvae in there.
58:27
And if yeah. And that, you know, if you have
58:30
a tire swing, for example, a good way is to just drill a hole
58:36
in it because then it won't collect water.
58:38
So it's like it's a mindset thing because then it goes into
58:42
long gutters and unprotected water tanks.
58:47
Like once you really start thinking about it, there are
58:50
lots of things that. Hold water.
58:51
Oh yeah. So it's, it's, it's a bit of an
58:55
effort and it's a bit of a like you can't just do one big sort
58:58
of spring clean up and then forget about it because if you
59:01
then, you know, put things out again, they will collect water
59:04
again. So it's like an ongoing process
59:06
rather than like AI clean it up once and then never need to
59:09
worry about mosquitoes again. And I think the thing that is
59:15
now a bit more on people's Raiders is if the storm water
59:20
drain on the road is clogged, that will also breed mosquitoes.
59:23
And that's certainly the council issue.
59:25
And that should be reported because if you report it, it
59:30
will get dealt with straight away.
59:31
Like the council doesn't have eyes everywhere.
59:34
How could it? But sort of you need to, you
59:36
know, point it out and then they will come and clean it up.
59:39
Very good point. Because these are things that
59:42
you might not think about. You might just kind of go, oh,
59:44
I've got a bird bath or like you say, a pond or, you know, this
59:49
part of the yard floods and fills up with water.
59:51
So that's kind of where the obvious breeding ground is.
59:54
But it, it is like those little rings around the pots or it's
59:57
just like an, an upside down something that just collects a
1:00:00
little handful of water in it every time and you don't notice
1:00:03
it. And it's that's the breeding
1:00:05
ground. And for millions, sorry, I need
1:00:07
to bring them up because for millions people love them.
1:00:10
And I've seen heaps of, you know, I've, I've done sort of
1:00:14
work where I knock on people's doors and I ask if they can look
1:00:17
in their backyard to look at breeding sites and things like
1:00:20
that. Heaps of people that don't have
1:00:22
a lot of yards that have like a concrete courtyard try to make
1:00:26
it nice with plants, right? Which I would do the exact same
1:00:28
thing. And I've seen so many sort of
1:00:32
concrete square courtyards filled with bromeliads that are
1:00:36
all full of mosquito larvae. And that's a bit, you know, you
1:00:41
just, you can have them, you don't need to like throw them
1:00:44
all away. You obviously have to kind of
1:00:46
fill them up with water. That's how they survive.
1:00:48
Just make sure that if you do water them that you kind of
1:00:51
flush out all of the old water and you do this like once a
1:00:53
week. OK.
1:00:55
Because if you flush it all out, it's the same bird baths.
1:00:58
You can have your bird bath, just tip it out once a week
1:01:01
because everything that will have bred at that point, you
1:01:04
know, you throw them on the ground and they won't survive.
1:01:08
Do the same with your bromeliads.
1:01:10
Yeah, that's such a good point. I didn't even think about that.
1:01:13
Like there's definitely certain plants or hold water inside them
1:01:17
and that's how they're designed and all that sort of thing.
1:01:20
What do you think about something like citronella
1:01:22
planting that around? Or like, obviously we use it as
1:01:25
a, you know, a bit of a, an incense or a burning smell to,
1:01:29
to keep them at Bay. But I mean, I used to plant a
1:01:33
whole bunch of citronella in my garden and kind of go and rub it
1:01:37
on my legs and things as I would go past or go round.
1:01:43
Do you think how effective is that?
1:01:45
And do you think that it's probably better off focusing on
1:01:48
the water rather than, you know, natural repellents?
1:01:52
Yeah. So it's always a bit of a tricky
1:01:55
question because there certainly is probably citronella and other
1:02:00
sort of strong smelling plants that will help to a certain
1:02:07
degree, right? So I'm not saying none of this
1:02:10
works or if you plant certain trees that keeps mosquitoes out,
1:02:13
I won't say that that doesn't work at all.
1:02:16
The problem with this is that I feel like it gives people sort
1:02:21
of a full sense of security and safety.
1:02:25
It's the same with, I don't know, repellent patches and
1:02:28
stuff like that. You know, it's using ingredients
1:02:30
that are that show that are proven to show mosquito
1:02:34
repellent activities but or properties but in a very
1:02:40
different application form. So people that would otherwise
1:02:44
use, you know, a DEET base or Pictoritan paste based mosquito
1:02:49
repellent will know now rather use that and think it does the
1:02:54
same thing. So, you know, so it's like I
1:02:58
can't, I like, I don't like to give a clear answer because I
1:03:03
know that some of this works, some of the natural stuff.
1:03:06
And I'm not saying it doesn't, but I don't want to have
1:03:11
someone, you know, listen to the expert saying, yes, this works,
1:03:14
walks off after that and then never uses a deep product again
1:03:18
when they're actually need to because there may be trouble to
1:03:20
an area where there's lots of, you know, pathogen transmission.
1:03:24
So it's always a bit of a tricky question for me because I would
1:03:27
always lean on the side of caution.
1:03:29
If you feel like you react a lot to mosquito bites or if you're
1:03:33
in an area where there's lots of pathogen transmission, I would
1:03:36
not take the risk. If you don't mind so much and
1:03:40
you might get one or two mosquito bites in your yard.
1:03:42
And you really think from your own anecdotal, you know, sort of
1:03:48
experience, if I'm using this or if I have planted this, I have
1:03:51
noticed I'm get fitting less like great to do that, But I
1:03:55
like, I find it hard to say like, yes, absolutely that
1:03:57
works. The same with mosquito coils,
1:03:59
the same with candles. All of these things work to a
1:04:02
certain extent, but you really kind of need to not fall into
1:04:06
that trap. As humans we always look for the
1:04:08
easy fix solution and it's like OK cool this person said this
1:04:12
candle works and now I just gonna light that candle for my
1:04:15
barbecue and everyone is safe. It's all.
1:04:18
Solved and then it's just and then it also depends if it's a
1:04:21
windy night that will do nothing and I can do that can say that
1:04:25
with with confidence. So it's always, you know, it's
1:04:28
like pick, pick what works for you, pick it for the appropriate
1:04:32
situation. Don't just think I bought this
1:04:35
one thing now which I feel better with because it's not
1:04:37
applied directly to my skin and now I'm good forever.
1:04:42
That is, you know, you're also really do need to protect
1:04:45
yourself from pathogens that are transmitted by mosquitoes that
1:04:48
can make you really sick, so. Important.
1:04:51
Yeah, I see what you mean. It's just kind of like, yes,
1:04:54
they can work, but you'd still need to have this overall
1:04:57
vigilance towards it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:05:02
Last question, what's on the horizon for you and your
1:05:08
research? What's something that you're
1:05:10
really what's, what's top of mind at the moment that you're
1:05:13
really thinking about and curious about and working
1:05:16
towards in your work? That is a good question because
1:05:20
in the academic space you never can think way too far ahead
1:05:25
because you never get funding or job security for such a long
1:05:28
time that you can just have that forward.
1:05:30
But I'm working a lot on Borlia ulcer, which as I said sort of
1:05:36
earlier is a, is a skin infection that we have sort of
1:05:41
in the inner suburbs of Melbourne these days.
1:05:44
It's a neglected tropical disease.
1:05:46
So it's a bit weird that we have this in a very not tropical,
1:05:49
very not neglected place. So that's intriguing.
1:05:52
The whole transmission cycle is quite intriguing because it's a
1:05:56
bit different to what I said before.
1:05:58
We don't have, we think we're not sure, don't have that sort
1:06:01
of internal life cycle of the pathogen inside of the mosquito
1:06:05
here. We think it's more like a dirty
1:06:07
needle kind of situation, which is different and intriguing.
1:06:13
And it's all kind of, it's an interesting project because it
1:06:16
is more, it's using very advanced sort of molecular and
1:06:23
microbiology techniques and comes with this whole ecological
1:06:30
work that I'm doing on top of that.
1:06:32
But it is kind of just like detective work as well.
1:06:35
Like there's lots of going into the field, picking up things,
1:06:39
talking to people. And it's a big collaborative
1:06:43
project from that has microbiologists,
1:06:47
epidemiologists, people from health departments, people like
1:06:49
me that work on ecological features of mosquitoes.
1:06:52
That is something that I'm going to work on a lot in the next
1:06:56
couple of years and have been working on in the last couple of
1:06:59
years. And that is, yeah, something I
1:07:03
how to think about it every day. And yeah, it's, you know, we're
1:07:08
looking at the mosquito species transmitting it that I've done
1:07:11
basically my whole PhD on. So it's my little, it's my
1:07:14
little baby. Yeah.
1:07:17
So that's something that I'm really passionate about and that
1:07:19
I love to talk to people about just because it's something that
1:07:22
sort of general, even like non sciency people find very
1:07:25
interesting because, you know, it's me knocking at people's
1:07:29
door and looking at the bird baths and it's like the
1:07:32
professor's jumping on push bikes to pick up possum poo.
1:07:36
So it's kind of, you know, it's sort of we kind of sometimes
1:07:39
forget, I think the human side of research a little bit.
1:07:42
And I think this story sort of has lots of it.
1:07:45
And that's why that's also something that I'm that I'm
1:07:48
enjoying doing sort of outreach and, and public engagement with
1:07:51
because it's kind of one of the easy ones to get people sort of
1:07:55
engaged and interested, which I think is great.
1:07:58
And I love getting people interested in scientific
1:08:01
research that maybe not necessarily sort of, you know,
1:08:04
have a, have a think for it already.
1:08:23
And there we have it, everybody. Thank you again for listening.
1:08:27
What a crazy conversation talking about mosquitoes.
1:08:30
I never thought that starting this podcast, that would be
1:08:32
something I would be diving into.
1:08:34
But as soon as I came across Doctor Veronique's Instagram,
1:08:38
which of course will be LinkedIn, the description below,
1:08:42
along with all of the other information that I have for you
1:08:45
to go and follow from her. When I came across her Instagram
1:08:48
profile, I immediately was drawn in by her passion, but also her
1:08:53
understanding of these different insects and some of the ways
1:08:58
that, as we alluded to in the conversation, it can be a lot
1:09:01
more complex than we first thought.
1:09:03
So I thought, why not get in touch and see if we can bring
1:09:07
her on the show. And I'm so glad that we did.
1:09:11
Now please go and check out her links in the description below.
1:09:14
But otherwise, if you enjoyed today's episode or if you found
1:09:18
some value at all, I'd be really appreciative if you either
1:09:22
shared the episode somewhere on your socials.
1:09:25
Let a friend know that you found some value out of it and they
1:09:28
might be able to get some as well.
1:09:31
But finally, you can leave a review some sort of stars or
1:09:35
comments. This so much is going to help
1:09:39
the show and spread it to other people and prove to the
1:09:44
algorithms and the AI that is running everything that more
1:09:48
people are interested in this and it should suggest it to
1:09:51
others. So that's one big favor you can
1:09:53
do for me. Hit the follow button, hit the
1:09:55
subscribe. But otherwise, I'm so excited.
1:09:58
There's more and more conversations coming rapidly.
1:10:00
This is becoming more and more fun, and I'm so glad that you're
1:10:03
along the journey with me. Very much appreciative of you as
1:10:07
a listener and I can't wait to see you on the next episode.
1:10:10
So take care and we'll see you then.