Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / How to Find Hope as You Face the Unknown | a timely COVID-19 conversation with Kristen Welch

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How to Find Hope as You Face the Unknown | a timely COVID-19 conversation with Kristen Welch · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: All things Enneagram and helping you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Medwest.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was alone and without family or community.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: But the Lord, He didn't let me stay there.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: He helped me turn my broken-hearted moment into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I share broken-hearted perspective with story, but with wholehearted purpose and plans so you can live a life full of confidence and abundance.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal, mixed with a little bit of Enneagram coaching.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So get to that pile of laundry or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And be ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, I'm so glad you're here today.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: This month we have been focusing on how we make the most of our time, or as I like to call it, wholehearted minutes.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Little did I know that midway through, we would be experiencing a few weeks that have probably felt like some of the longest minutes of our lives.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're all saying it, we're reading it and hearing it, but the reality is we are facing a time unlike anything that we have faced before.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I was scheduled to have this conversation with Kristen for a while, and I'm so grateful because it turns out the timing was perfect.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I've moved some of my recordings around.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: That way I could share this timely conversation with you during this unprecedented season.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: When Kristen signed on to write a two-book deal, she wasn't clear on what the second book was going to be about.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And little did she know she would face several challenging seasons that she would have to write her way through.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: She shared a lot of her stories in her newest book, Made to Move Mountains, how God uses our dreams and disasters to accomplish the impossible.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: She is also going to share today how the coronavirus is impacting her family and ministry.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: She'll also be giving wisdom about how we can learn from grief instead of running away from it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we had to sneak a little bit of Enneagram in here, which was really fun to hear her perspective.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we ended the conversation with three ways to help us all remain hopeful during the difficulties that we're currently facing.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, because we've been thrown into such a unique season, I wanted to go ahead and highlight a few resources which I normally offer to all my mom friends during the summer months.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I revamped a few of my items for the quarantine weeks that are ahead of us.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I am using them myself for our daily routine and inspiration to connect with my kids' spirit, mind, and body.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know I'm all about perspective and purpose here, but to me, nothing beats a good plan.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to share a few of mine with you.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Really, this can be a fabulous time to strengthen connection we have with those in our home.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing when we strip away all the activities and the busyness that we've grown accustomed to, and we're thrown into a season to remember what matters most.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the resources that I have for you are not on my website.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're there, they're just not easy to find.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you can find the links to the quarantine daily routine, my 50 device-free boredombusters, and even seven days around the world in the show notes.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if you happen to be hanging out on my Instagram, you can find all those links in the Simply Wholehearted profile.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive right into this conversation with Kristen Welch.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I feel so I after I wrote this book, I really felt like God was like, you need to go into a season of being quiet.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just had no idea how my entire platform was gonna be taken away from me.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I've definitely been more quiet than I want to be because I have no blog or podcast right now.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be flexible, but yeah, that's but that's really frustrating.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really frustrating all of this.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know for you when you went to even write the book, Made to Move Mountains.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it was at Declare.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you were it was maybe one of the first times you publicly shared about it.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so going into it probably looked a little bit different than how you came on the side of it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of curious to know the story.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it was when I signed the contract for that book, it was three years ago because I had signed a two-book deal, not even knowing what the second book would be.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But my husband works for the nonprofit that we started, and so writing has been a way for us to help meet our financial needs.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so signing a a a book that I didn't know what it was gonna be about was I'd never done that before.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I will probably never do it again.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, I I didn't even know what it was going the title or the content, and then I really felt like it needed to be about moving mountains, but I thought it was gonna be like this like everyone's meant to move a mountain that's a dream of theirs, you know.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, right, kind of like a pep talk kind of book, and then I pitched it to my eight uh my publisher, they were like, Yes, this would be a great book, and then my life totally fell apart, and so um then I had to ask for a six-month extension because I couldn't even write.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how do I write a book about moving mountains when this unexpected mountain is like crushing me right now?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so it just became a very raw, real book in a totally different way that I think is more well-rounded, at least, and it for the what we're living in right now, it's definitely more appropriate.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think God just uses everything.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It it's we don't know what's around the next corner, and I certainly didn't.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it was such a it was such a hard book for me to write, and it took so much out of me um that I really felt it in the especially the marketing process, which is really difficult for a lot of writers.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So difficult.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not how wire writers are naturally wired wired at all.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I like mourn and grieve, and because I in order to do what God has asked me to do, I feel like I have to check out of the online world and that I have to live this story of obedience, but I have to get back into that world to get people to share the story of obedience.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really hard for me.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm an introvert and I don't like asking people for things, and it's very humbling.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the middle of all of that, that was before this whole pandemic.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like God was speaking to me, you know, you've you've you've produced and created content for 12 years now, and I just want you to to not do that for a little while.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't even know what that looks like.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't even had time to process it because yeah, that was three or four weeks ago, and then all of a sudden now we're trying to keep our nonprofit going in a global pandemic.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't even had time to process that, but yeah.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so for you guys now with um with the pandemic and all the closures and and all the, I mean, just even if you aren't forced to be closed, everything has slowed down tremendously.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how does it look to live this message?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because your subtitle is How God Uses Our Dreams and Disasters to Accomplish the Impossible.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wow, I know you wrote it for something totally different and based on very different circumstances, but now you're it's like you're kind of being asked to live it again.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because I actually have a chapter in the book where I talk about uh just this argument I was having with the Lord about wanting an easy season.
• 8:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't blame you.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted because 2018 was tough, 2019 was brutal.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, 2020 is my year.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And a friend who read the book texted me yesterday and she was like, so much for that easy year.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, God has really just revealed so much truth to me in the disasters, and I think life is just filled with both, right?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Dreams we want to pursue and disasters that come along that we aren't expecting.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is definitely a season that none of us could have predicted or expected, and it's just caused our normal to come to a screeching halt.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it's amazing that God is still God and He's still good, and He's with us in the valleys and He's with us on the mountaintops, and He redeems everything.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm getting to see that up close and personal.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: It feels a little bit like a roller coaster right now, trying to run a nonprofit with artisan groups around the world, and you know, everyone is experiencing in their own way this unique problem together, and so there's a this amazing commonality that we're sharing in unity through the disaster that I think is totally uh a positive way to look at it, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can identify, um, but it's it's been a roller coaster of loss and gain and um just constant loss and gain.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And but I feel like there's uh an evening out, even in loss and gain.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just perspective, how you look at it.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um the perspective is the breathing ground for gratitude.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we can take what we're going through right now and look at it from a different angle, there's so much to be thankful for.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's definitely a lesson that God keeps showing me is there's so much to be thankful for in the middle of the hard times and the the journey that we didn't expect.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's really good.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, so my mom's group that we meet uh normally on Thursday mornings at my house, and we have babysitters and coffee and food and great conversation, uh, which normally revolves around being a mom and the Enneagram.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, now we can't do that.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've been taking it online and focusing our conversations on how we can pray for one another.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And today I was like, okay, we're gonna talk about our God sightings.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are we seeing the Lord do in the midst of this?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was so cool because I don't I don't even know how many, you know, sometimes we have 10, sometimes we have 30 women, and everyone was able to see something that the Lord was doing, you know, in the midst of this, whether it was directly related to quarantine or coronavirus, or just that he was still active outside of it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you but you mentioned one thing that I thought was really cool because that this was the perspective of someone else, is that there's this leveling out where we all are in the same boat.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: We are all experiencing the same grief.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: So each of us handle grief uniquely.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I am personally one of those who would prefer to run away from it, but very specifically you address this.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we maybe if we're the type that we would prefer to run than learn?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: How has the Lord shown you how to learn from it instead of run from it and maybe a benefit that you've gotten from not running?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that God has just really revealed to me that it's okay to grieve and given me permission to grieve, and and really showed me that I need to give myself permission to grieve.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: To feel loss and sadness and disappointment and um discouragement and all the feelings it's okay to feel that, and um, I know that I I felt that permission before all of this happened, just in a personal medical issue with one of my kids that really took us by surprise and just feeling the grief and sadness of that and being okay with it.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's a life lesson that when we face periods of loss, whatever that looks like, it's okay to feel that loss.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I needed that permission because I do have a global perspective, and I know that I have a lot of first world problems that would not be problem, you know, that people in a third world would love to have my problems, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because it's their normal is different than my normal.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't discount my own loss, it doesn't um discount my feelings.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know that when this pandemic first started and my kids were facing their own individual unique losses, whether it was my college daughter having to abruptly move out of her dorm and not get to say goodbye to anyone and come home and try to figure out and you know, a whole new way to live.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been so hard for her or my youngest, who finally got a part she wanted in a youth theater, and now the whole theater program has been delayed and postponed.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And but even though one loss might seem bigger to one of my kids in their own way, they both were grieving and needed that permission just to feel what they feel, you know.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as women, we're carrying our own grief and our children's grief, and our husbands who are have lost their jobs or who are working from home or who are very social but have no outlet now, or whatever it is, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're carrying that too.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, I just want to out loud give everyone permission to grieve what we're experiencing because it doesn't diminish it by comparing it to someone else's grief.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord is with us through every feeling and emotion that we have, and he doesn't diminish it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: He cares about everything that we care about, and everything that we lose sleep over and weak over, he cares about because he loves us.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I know that I've had to give myself permission again just this past week to be disappointed and be discouraged and to be afraid and remind myself that God says to fear not and that he's still in control.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think it's it's okay.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: We just need to give ourselves grace.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I've really been reminded too that it would really bode well for the Christian community to not only be giving yourself grace because that's what God is offering you, but to remember it's given to us so we can extend it to others.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I it's just interesting how sadly a lot of a lot of people are divided over this issue.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And well, I get I get all the perspectives, and in the end, there's just things we won't know.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it would be really great if we would all take time to consider how is someone else maybe grieving in this time.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe for you, this is a welcomed vacation, and it's amazing because your husband can work from home, and you, you know, you have more time with your kids and you have, you know, your kids' situation, it's it's better because of this.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, this might feel totally different than the person who has lost everything and is grieving a bunch of stuff.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's just that reminder in this situation when we everything has been leveled out to take the opportunity.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, our grief may look different, but we all are experiencing it on some level and to extend that grace not only to ourselves and that permission to grieve, but to others as well.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we can, I think it's just one of a practical way we can be the hands and feet of Jesus in this time.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that if we find ourselves on the other side of that grief and we're able to find the gratitude and find the rainbow in the rain and and feel really positive, or maybe that comes in waves, we take that as a gift from God and then we share that gift with someone else.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: We send a care package, we write a note, um, we remember those who feel how we felt.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is it's just it's precious.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I know I um I got a an audio message from our director in Kenya.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have maternity homes there that um we've had 55 uh girls have babies who were trafficked and and we're still running all of that in the middle of this crisis.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And our director sent me an audio message of what a pandemic means in a developing country.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so haunting and really holy her appeal to as you're bored at home and you're quarantined, you're looking for things to do, or you have the, you know, see that as a privilege to protect your family and to not worry about food.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as I listened to it, I just sat in my I sat in the backyard listening to it and I just cried because I needed to hear that message.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to remember that being able to work from home and having the internet and this level of discomfort or interruption in my schedule is really a privilege because people in third world and developing countries, they're facing the same pandemic we are, but they don't they can't self-quarantine because they live in a one-room shack with six other people.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: There is no internet, they can't work from home because they don't have food for the next day.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it automatically my perspective was changed.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I gathered my kids around and said, I want you to, I want us to listen to this message together.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: For two days after that, my kids were like, you know, we're so grateful that we instead of complaining about their favorite snacks running out in the pantry, you know, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And your perspective changes.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you get to sit on that side of the fence and you have a positive perspective, then we need to share that with others because it's a privilege um to be able to sense God's goodness in what we're experiencing.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love that perspective.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's I well, that's one of the reasons why I've loved your books.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: You offer such a unique perspective, and I you just because of your heart for uh developing nations and the people living there, and like you you mentioned, rescuing women who otherwise would be stuck in horrific situations and you give them life and opportunity to bear life.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's so incredible, and and your heart in that and your work in that comes through all of your writing.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I knew that I was kind of on the lookout for this book, and then you were at um a conference recently that I got to go to, and we connected there, and I was like, Well, I expected to get your book, but I didn't, so we need to touch base.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I would love for my our listeners and our friends to hear uh what made to move mountains kind of looks like, how you have it set up, um just how you have, in essence, customized material or made it in such a way that the reader can customize the material to their own needs and and their own mountains that they're facing.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that um the premise of the book is that life is filled with ups and downs, and we're currently experiencing that on a cataclysmic level.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um Unprecedented.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so even when this ends, we're still gonna have ups and downs.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I had no idea I was gonna be launching a book in the middle of a pandemic, of course.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's we can apply it to our lives because we don't know what's around the next bin.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um And there are, you know, valleys in every story.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there are mountaintops in every story.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And God is faithful and he walks with us through all of those.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really it's a book for everyone.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is not just for those who have dreams or disasters.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's for for everyone who has has both or neither because uh the perspective to help people join them on their mountaintop dream or aid them in their disaster is what it looks like to be the body of Christ.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so um really I just share my own personal story um about an unexpected mountain that my family faced actually in the writing of the book, but also a mountain that we chose out of obedience to God, and that was to work with um women in poverty to provide dignified jobs 10 years ago when we started our nonprofit.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I end each chapter with a place to uh uh where I ask questions and you can kind of journal write in the book uh how you're processing through um through the mountain, uh whether it's a a dream that God's given us.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I my favorite Bible story of all times is the boy with the two loaves and or loaves and fishes.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, um, where God placed something small in his hand uh and he offered it back and God or Jesus blessed it and multiplied it and and fed people with it.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I believe that God has put something in each of our hands and it looks different.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your offering looks totally different than my offering, it's it's not less significant, it's equally uh imperative that you give that back to Jesus because gifts that he gives us were meant to be shared, and so he places something in our hands, it could be a dream, right?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Something whether it's starting a small business or helping people or uh whatever, whatever you know, a dream's a dream, but he gives us those so that he can be glorified through our offering.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that if we're not walking in that obedience of laying that dream down, we need to be.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we find fulfillment and joy and purpose.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um sometimes our dreams lead to our own disasters.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know probably all small business owners in the world right now are trying to figure that out.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but God, I truly believe He redeems everything, all of the the difficulties and the sorrows and the challenges.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um so really it's helping just uh chronicle your journey by reflecting and um offering those things back to God and in a way that maybe we hadn't thought of before.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, that's awesome.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm even expectant in this time because for a lot of us it will be a a pause.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of hesitate to even say death, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it feels like our dream maybe is dying in this moment.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I ironically, this year, I turned 40 at the end of last year, and this year I kept getting these words about this being a year of harvest and growth and fruit and all this stuff.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And 2020 has, I mean, besides the world's crisis, I've had my own unique stuff that I'm going, it's dead, it's all dead.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I am um uh I've been reading through um Acts and the apostles' writings and so first Corinthians, I think it's 13 six.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna quote it exactly, but just how about how the seed has to be broken and you know it what seems dead, but it does um as it breaks, it takes root and it grows.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm just I am just seeing in this time friends go, okay, this feels dead or this looks maybe dead, but in the midst of it, God giving them a new dream and new ideas and new thoughts.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just think it's beautiful, whether it's from the stripping away or from you know uh the thing that was can be no more, um God is is still birthing new things and and vision for people to to run in, even in time like this.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a theme of this book, Made to Move Mountains, is really based on something I heard Christine Kane say years ago.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: She said, sometimes when you're in a dark place, you think you've been buried, that you've actually been planted.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been very life-giving for me, especially in the writing of this book, because it was a dark season for me, probably one of the darkest seasons I've ever experienced in all my years in writing this book.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I felt buried.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And in the last decade of trying to obey God with this crazy yes, that we said uh there have been seasons where I just felt like I was fumbling in the darkness, like God, I'm trying to do what you want me to do, but I I don't know how to do it, or there is so much opposition for me to do it, or it's just so hard.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I still struggle with that, but God does not waste anything.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and I there was probably a a season of about five years before we started Mercy House where I used to refer to them as my wasted years, like in joking with girlfriends or whatever, I would say, those are my wasted years because I didn't do anything for anyone except myself.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And a friend of mine called me out on it, and she was like, God does not waste years, He was forging something in you that you have drawn from in the darkness, and she was totally right, though He does not waste anything.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Barren years, years of drought, years of what may look like inactivity, or you know, years that don't look productive are not wasted because God does not waste lives.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that everyone who draws the breath, no matter how old you are, the reason that we continue to draw our breath is because God has a purpose for our lives.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: There is something that we need to be doing.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite things about Mercy House, we have a very active volunteer community that help us four days a week and several nights a week and on the weekends with uh packing products that we mail out.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: We ship about 4,000 packages a month out of our barn.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And right now we're closed, but we have volunteer pickups where we have like a drive-thru and people are picking up volunteer projects and doing them at home with their kids.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool and it's this really neat opportunity.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But our largest and most faithful group of volunteers are senior citizens who are in their 70s and 80s, and they are using their time to come alongside us and help us empower women around the world.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and I love that because they are using what they have, and that's what God allows us to do.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: He has a purpose and a plan for each of us, and he does not waste anything.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've covered the perspective ground so well in this conversation because we like to hit the perspective and we like to hit purpose, which is Enneagram talk.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta find out what type do you think you lead with?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so curious.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've been thinking about it for a while, and I'm not sure I know.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I am a hardcore one.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right, what's your revelation story?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: When did you figure it out?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I also really love a resource called Strength Finders.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, that God has really used both of those tools uh to just speak a lot of um reassurance, I guess, and um confidence into me.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I really just had this revelation in two different ways.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Through strength finders, it was uh I took the test, I saw my top five strengths.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: My top strength is strategic, so I'm a strategic thinker, which basically means a problem solver.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you take that with an Enneagram one who is a reformer, and so obviously those work together so well.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So well, yes.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But through strength finders, we had a coach come out and lead our staff through everyone's strengths, and he didn't know who any of us were, and he looked through the different strengths and he was like, Now who is this?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have a very unique combination of strengths, and everyone laughed because it was me.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the founder, he was like, Oh, well, your strengths make perfect sense because you have the the strength set of someone who would start something like Mercy House.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just started crying because I've struggled with inadequacy and why did God ask me to do this?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: He should have asked someone who was smarter, who maybe wasn't a writer.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it it was so reassuring to me that God created me to do this, and then as an Enneagram one, my my deepest desire is to be good.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to be a good mom and a good wife and a good everything, a good leader.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And just recently, God just was really rooting some untruths out of me.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this desire to be good is in aid in me, but he is good, he is good.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I can lay down my failures and my inadequacies at his feet because I want him to be seen in me first and foremost.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want people to glorify me because I'm good, and so it's been this really unique um, the way that he's used these tools for me to help me.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um I I love um talking to my kids about their Enneagram type in there or my older college-age kids, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and their strengths because I feel like they just work so well together, and um it it has helped me tremendously in my marriage.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm married to a seven.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's really funny because his in his strengths, his top five strengths, positivity is like his number three, and positivity is my 33rd.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh he just can't help but be positive.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: His number one strength is ideation, which means all day long he comes up with ideas.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I totally relate.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's a problem solver, so I'm shooting down his ideas because I can see the holes in them.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been really I love the the way that we have these tools that I don't think they're the all-to-end all, you know, but totally that they're they're tools that we can use to help understand each other better.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a big fan, so yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, well, obviously me too.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's great to have language to even as you and your husband are able to go because I'm guessing there's been clashes through the years because of this, because those like, whoa, those don't, those are gonna really rub hard on each other.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: But now to understand why that's there, instead of it being personal, you know, going, why why did she just not want to dream with me?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And said you're like, why is he being so impractical?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he always has a new idea.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I love the flip side.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, I have two two of my three kids.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have can have conversation about it intelligently, but it's this amazing way to then see how the gospel satisfies the message we were created to hear.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, God actually created us to have lenses that look this way, and our perspective on the the of the earth is a certain way.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we understand what that is, we can go to the word of God.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think just understand, oh, that's the lens we're looking through, and that's the message my heart longs to hear.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I spirit I I believe beautiful spiritual growth can really come from having some understanding.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think having those resources and understanding how God made me and how he made others has given me so much compassion.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's made me less selfish, you know, where I every once in a while, now that I know, I'll my husband will say something.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: We work together 24-7.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: He makes a deal of our nonprofit.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we obviously now work homeschooling together.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of together.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: All the things, all the things.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I when he says things sometimes now, I just pause and I'm like, bless his heart.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: God made him that way.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, that's good.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to be the one that shoots down all of his ideas just because I see the holes in them, because that's how God made me.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's made me just a little more tender and compassionate to say to be able to say those are amazing ideas.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: We and I mean, because every once in a while it's the most incredible home run idea that we need, right?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because that's totally and so um I think they're I think they're just amazing tools that when we are gospel centered, we can see that um God uses that language to help us communicate with each other.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously the Lord putting you together, He can come up with the idea and you can come up with a strategy that will work, which is so good.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when it works, it really, really works.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Really works.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as we wrap up here, I've just loved it, and I know we both are homeschooling kids and got so many things going on in the background.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would love it if you could give us three ways that we could remain hopeful when we are in tense and intense difficulties like we're facing right now.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would say number one, God is good no matter what.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: And just remembering that it's it's easy in a situation like we're living right now, just everything is so up plus in our face, and it feels so personal and like the world is ending.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yesterday I was literally I looked at my husband and I just burst into tears, and I've noticed we're all my family unit, you know, we're finding like we're more emotional and we just need to have any breakdowns.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Why are you crying?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I just I need you to tell me it's gonna be okay.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just tell me everything's gonna be okay.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he he did tell me that, but I was really just saying it out loud because I needed God to reassure me that we're gonna make it through this.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna it might look totally different than we expected because we didn't expect this, but it's going to be okay because God is good.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we just have to hold on to that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, you know, go back to what we first started talking about, just give yourself permission to have those moments where you need to fall apart and fall into Jesus.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're human, we are going to all experience this crisis in our own unique way.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I know at dinner the other the other night, my 13-year-old who is really experiencing this very different than her brother who's a senior, and her sister who's in college, burst into tears at dinner, and my other kids were kind of like, what's wrong with her?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she got up and went to the bathroom, and I was like, You guys, like just give her space to feel what she feels.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so we need to give that to our family members that were living in very close quarters with the clock.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we need to give it to ourselves, right?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: We need to give that to ourselves.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And number three, I would say just look for the good in every day.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have done something for years and years and years called highs and lows.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And now that we're eating most of our meals together, I did tell my kids they should not expect me to cook three times a day.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: They have to cook for themselves during the dinner and lunch together right now.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a great we've done this high and low where everyone just takes their turn and says they're high of the day and their low of the day.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, years ago, of course, the high it's just all it's always been different in different seasons, but now the highs are so funny, you know.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I walked a dog today.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the sun is shining.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or like yesterday, one of my kids was like, I saw a neighbor, and it was so good to see someone, even though it was from far away that wasn't my family.
• 40:12
  unknown: I get it.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I it we laughed when we were done because we were like, all of our highs were basically our lows three years ago, you know.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that the truth?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so just the perspective, but um with our staff right now, we're just like any good news, we're sharing it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it is so small, like we got a sponsor for uh one of our mom and uh you know, our teen mother and child uh sponsorship program.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: We got a new sponsor, you know, yesterday.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone celebrates.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing, yeah.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: What can we share that's good news?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because we need good news, and Jesus is good news, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: The gospel is good news, so there's always good news.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something good because God is good.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if we can look for those things, I mean, gratitude shows us what we have instead of what we don't.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we need gratitude in this because we have a lot.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel like you cannot make a list of what you have, email me and I will help you.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking to women around the world who would be very, very grateful to have our list.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's so much to be thankful for in the middle of what we're all facing together.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Kristen, this has been so good.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved every minute of this, and I know that while when we booked this conversation, we didn't plan on talking about this exactly.
• 41:37
  unknown: Right, right.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: God knew best, and I'm grateful that this is something that will be able to encourage my friends and so many others.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to face your mountains with fresh faith?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am so grateful for Kristen's ideas to remain hopeful in this uncertain season.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe that we are gonna see brighter days ahead.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: They will be full of life and dreams fulfilled.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: So hang on, my friend.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can get Kristen's newest book, Made to Move Mountains, on Amazon now.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love it if you would give her a follow on Instagram and maybe even send her a direct message to let her know what you learned from this conversation.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know a mom who could use some encouragement during these crazy times, we'll share this conversation with her to let her know that you are thinking of her.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Next week, we'll be back with another new and timely conversation with Tracy Steele.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure you are subscribed so you don't miss an episode.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, until next week, let's pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for us simply, wholehearted life.