Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Synergy of Sustainability and Science Driven Scalp Care Featuring REVERIE

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The Synergy of Sustainability and Science Driven Scalp Care Featuring REVERIE · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Patriotarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ecta, and I'm very excited about our episode today because we will be interviewing the founder and president of a hair care line that I'm truly a fan of.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, we can never know enough about hair care, especially in our industry now.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: That that's how I see it at least.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I always have questions, you know, every time I interview a hair care brand about, you know, just things that we look, you know, encounter day to day, whether it's because of changes in the weather or whatnot.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder and president of Revere Hair Care, Garrett Markinson and Hillary Markinson.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, guys.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Actor.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're excited to be with you.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having us.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Our pleasure to be here.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to host both of you and um a huge fan of the line.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a great, great brand.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Garrett, I'd love to get started.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you, if you could tell us a little bit about where the vision came from, you know, for Reverie, because I know you have quite an impressive background in, you know, the hair world and everything.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd get us started.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, I'd love to.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, currently I've done hair in Los Angeles for just over 20 years.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: My journey in hair started while studying abroad in Florence, Italy for a fine arts degree.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: And an experience that led me to the salon really just shaped and kind of transcended my uh, you know, perspective on this culture.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my upbringing was going to a salon where you did not book an appointment.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: You just kind of sat there and waited your turn.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was never really satisfied with the product.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, getting my haircut wasn't really something that I imagined could turn into a career.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I came back after that experience and and started to do hair with a huge, I would just say, a prof uh pleasure for wine and really enjoy going to the wineries in California and and other places and hearing the story uh and really just dialing in and articulating to what I was experiencing, what I what I thought I was tasting.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was just something that I'm sure a lot of people listening can relate to.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, wine is just such a beautiful thing.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot more fun when you're belly up at the wine bar getting a you know a song and dance from the person pouring.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: An experience led me back to Italy, and I went wine tasting there, you know.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited, asking a ton of questions.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the person pouring, I could tell they were very impatient and kind of almost just uninterested, maybe even frustrated with how excited I was.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: And the guy told me, he said, you know, why are you so interested in what you're tasting?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's grapes, you know, alluding to the fact that there's nothing more than grapes.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, you know, I'm trying to dial into it, vanilla, black pepper, what's going on here?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, All you really should be concerned about is why we work so hard to produce what we do.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: How we're a third-generation family-owned winery, why we've chosen to grow here, the process of growth, the process of harvest, the collective gathering uh for a greater good, all these really beautiful ways of living and appreciating harvest and ethics that I had really never thought about within this space.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that ultimately led me to create reverie by sourcing sustainable ingredients from around the world, working with small farms, and then manufacturing everything in California.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting how wine led you to hair care.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's very, very cool.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in fact, our our first inaugural product, milk, it's our anti-frizz leave-in.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: There's 16 essential oils in there, all inspired by what I gather from wine tasting.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, again, bourbon vanilla, black pepper, bergamot, fennel, all these notes that I really appreciate from wine.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: But imagine for a minute that those are 16 different farms around the world laboring over harvest to produce each one of those essential oils.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's beautiful.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, in fact, our our bergamot happens to be from a third-generation family-owned business.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think it's something to really celebrate because I couldn't imagine working with my family, let alone generation.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hillary, I don't know how you should feel about that one.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's so you know, it's it's beautifully put though, Garrett.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you articulated, you know, this vision because I've always been a believer, you know, I think similarly, in the sense that what we are doing with our OTC products, you know, it's so much more than just, you know, like, okay, here's another hair care brand or here's another, you know, styling cream.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's more, I think it's the narrative is becoming so much more about where do things come from and why?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like people love to say things like, well, there's a lot of nourishing ingredients in something, but then you don't stop to wonder exactly what that question that you were asked is like, where did all of that even come?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it nourishing?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what was the soil that it was grown in?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: What does that, you know, why does that matter?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know especially in the Mediterranean, we love talking about the soil in that region, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Geographically, because it's so rich in minerals, it's so rich in so many nutrients that are helping those, you know, um, endemic species of plants and herbs grow.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: But then when we translate that over to OTC products, that that narrative gets lost between packaging and, you know, like all these different things.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I find it to be very unique that you did go on this journey, you know, in this way of talking about sustainability in conjunction with, you know, the actual products you're creating.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So on that note, I want to ask, you know, um, maybe Hillary, you can take over on this one is like, can you go into a little bit about just the actual ingredients, the actual stuff you're putting in the bottles that you knew would be just phenomenal for the hair, you know?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So most of our ingredients, as Garrett mentioned, are coming from small family farms and or suppliers that are very intentional about how they're cultivating, processing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're mostly eco cert.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we get asked a lot, are we certified organic?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And no, we're not.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's simply because the cert USDA certified organic does not translate into Europe, and we'd much rather look for an Eco Cert ingredient or something that's regenerative, biodynamically grown than a USDA organic ingredient.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're looking for ingredients in a formulation, we're looking for skincare-focused ingredients, and that is mainly because the scalp is the basis of our hair.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's where the follicles are thriving.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Follicles are actually an individual organ.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we support that organ with nutrients and also the way we're processing ingredients is huge.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: You can take a beautiful ingredient and decimate it with heat processing.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we're mindful about how those ingredients are processed to preserve the integrity of the nutrients as well.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting to me.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that you said that about the destruction of the, you know, the molecular integrity of ingredients.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's something that is so overlooked.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, coming back to scalp care, we always talk about like the actual, like, I love what you said, that each follicle is an organ because we always focus on the strand itself.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have all this biotech and all these things we're trying to do that are like repairing like already dead, like that's dead tissue, you know, technically your hair strand.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of that, I I just wish that people would pour all of that biotech into scalp care.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's where it's coming from, and that's going to determine the integrity of how well the actual hair, you know, itself lasts and and how it breaks if it breaks, you know, all those kind of things.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very interesting that you guys are like going the extra mile to figure out where to get these ingredients.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, right now, I'm not gonna lie, I look at brands and I always see that, you know, okay, well, we have like 10 hallmark ingredients, but then you always wonder, well, why?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the relevance of you having 10 ingredients?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: But would you guys so you're sourcing every ingredient from different places, or is it kind of like one geographical location?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does that work for you from a business model?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we work with a chemist, a skincare chemist, and everything that goes into the formulation is sourced by our chemist, but it's not, I don't think it's the same as somebody who's private labeling their shampoo and conditioner.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Our chemist has been in this in the green chemistry space for over three decades and has these deep-rooted relationships that they've built their entire business on.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that is their passion.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the relationships are personal for them.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we get the best harvest of every ingredient, we get the latest science.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's really something that is so special.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's that's amazing.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, go ahead, Karen.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just want to add a little bit on to that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, I think I think what we're trying to help you understand is that there's an intimate relationship that we have with our chemist as well as her personal relationships.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, one of the ingredients that's in our recovery hair oil ever is marula oil.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: And our chemist has a relationship with the Leaky Foundation.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: They have the Masaya Tribe Women is uh in you know, independently owned women's co-op, and all the money from them cultivating and harvesting the marula goes back to their co-op.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm pretty certain we're the only beauty company sourcing Marula from this specific, you know, region and co-op.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: And we also work with another woman co-op in Africa for our shea butter.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's these little, like, because we are a small business and we're focused on quality and ethics as our creative process, you know, even just ranting back to the story that went into wine, you can have a Napa cab, or you can have a cab from another region.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: And just because it's called Cabernet, it's not going to taste the same.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you see it a lot with beauty products that might be referencing certain active ingredients or essential oils.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And lavender is not just lavender across the board.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: As Hilary mentioned, it has everything to do how it's produced.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think which is why someone has an experience with Reverie, they immediately have like a deeper connection to it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: They can really feel the viscosity connect with them more again, because it's not just the name of the ingredient, but the quality of it and how it's being sourced.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think that's very interesting to see that you guys are going the route.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I do have a question though.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, does that slow things down on your end, like in terms of the?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it doesn't.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: The short answer is yes.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: We've gotten a lot better.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've been in business now for 12 years, um, going 13 this year.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the process has certainly refined itself over the years of knowing exactly how much we will need for uh the inventory we're going to order for the year.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, during COVID, it was uh pretty hard for us to get our ingredients.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: We were stocked out of most of our products for of a long time because we couldn't get things imported to us.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can imagine because I mean you're you're being so you know considerate with the way you're finding the right places to get ingredients from.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what is that process really like though?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you don't mind walking through, like, how long does it really take you guys to find like, okay, this is a good place for us to go for this specific ingredient because it does align with our ethics.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, how long is that whole process of deciding that usually?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it's a result of actively listening to the needs of clients.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think of myself as an industry expert who's done hair for two decades, you're always having an ear out to clients' needs, specifically on the concept of scalp care.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Clients typically want hair that they used to have, hair that they had before trauma, possibly chemo, menopause, all different types of aging processes.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so actively listening to what these clients need is really a part of the creative process.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, the Swiss apple stem cells that are in our scalp tonic, cake was inspired by a client who had a personal relationship with Oprah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: She had just started using these ingredients in her skincare.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, wow, this is so exciting and so unique.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: So diving into that more with our chemist and figuring out how to make it work for scalp was so exciting.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: And similar to milk, cake was the first of its kind using these ingredients.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like we've pioneered the space in that way.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's similar to going to the market, knowing about recipes that are inspired geographically from all over the world and really compiling those ideas into a product.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it takes a lot of time.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: Milk took three years to launch, so did cake, because we're so particular.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I like that though.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a lot of, I love how much thought is going behind every product.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Hillary, I think I interrupted you.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was just gonna say it, just guessing in my head, it probably takes if we're bringing on a new ingredient, it takes us a minimum of six months to get that ingredient, to test it, to put it through all the certifications that we're looking for before start integrating it into a formula and trying to make a new product out of it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's so cool to understand that though, because I'm just thinking of all the people out there that might be, you know, contemplating starting a clean brand or like a, you know, really ethically sourced brand.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think these are topics that we just don't get to hear about, you know, in the industry.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I in in terms of like, you know, clean beauty, green beauty, we have buzzwords, but we don't have a lot of, you know, behind the scenes.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is how long it takes, this is the process you go through.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are struggles, you know, in terms of the time and the effort and all the different steps you would go through, you know, if you're going this route versus just go to a manufacturer, get it done.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I have a lot of respect for clean green beauty in that way, especially like things like medical botany when they come in, because I I mean, just imagining the amount of time, right, that it's taken to get to where a brand is, like you guys have some great products.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: You want a great award, you know, for those products.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And to acknowledge that you did put that time in, I mean, it kind of makes you look at clean beauty a whole different way, you know, as a consumer.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I'm I keep like kind of asking you these questions because I know there are people out there that wonder, like, oh my gosh, what's the difference between creating a clean versus non-clean brand, you know, in terms of time frame and everything.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think even that's an important topic to address too, because even within the clean space, there's a huge gap in how to do it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like there might be a clean brand that goes to a private label manufacturer and says, we want to just meet these standards, and they'll launch as a clean clean brand.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they don't have the same practices or thought behind the products that Reverie does.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or there's a there's a difference.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So being a consumer, it can get really tricky.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I know for myself, like I can never look at a product the same way.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have to know everything about it before I will buy it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very hard to buy skincare.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm the same way, trust me.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Once you know, you can see it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I saw something about total side note, but it's something about candles the other day, and now I'm like, you know, side-eyeing all my candles in my home.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So fragrance is one of the biggest culprits, and uh I would say things for us that we don't once you stop using artificial fragrance, you cannot use it again.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually what was one of my big questions for you guys was this idea of fragrance, because you know, when we talk about hair care, I think naturally it kind of comes up like in hair and the scent of like, you know, after you've washed freshly washed your hair and it smells like your hair care products, that's a big part of someone's like fragrance lifestyle, you know, and it becomes this part of your, I guess, the portfolio of scents that you utilize every day.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so from that note, I want to actually ask you guys about that component, you know, as a hair care brand, what was the process like when choosing fragrances that you thought would be appealing to you know your consumers across the board?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you could walk through that a little bit.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I was looking for luxury.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, as I mentioned before, the story behind the blend of essential oils for milk is inspired by wine.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: As every additional product in our line has a sort of sentimental story as well.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know, Mare was inspired by Hillary and I's vacation together to the Amalfi Coast.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna get a big experience of um warm pastries, bourbon vanilla, almond extract, sandalwood with a little bit of that lemon zest that they're known for.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: So everything has like a story to tell, um, which I think is a way to just resonate.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think that our sense of smell is so unique, and we don't even have enough time to go in there, so I'll I'll stay more focused on it.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, for example, what you put into your hair as opposed to what rinses down the drain has to be accountable for.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, we're really intentional with our ingredients for shampoos and cream rinse conditioners because they're wasted down the drain.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: They need to obviously biodegrade, they need to be not as precious as ingredients that would be leave-ins.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: So what we did with our shampoo and conditioner blend, it has a really strong note of neuroli.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's one of my favorite essential oils, but it also happens to be an antidepressant.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's such a wonderful way to start your day, to invigorate yourself in the shower, to uplift you.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And as opposed to ingredients that are like in milk, you're gonna get jasmine, you're gonna get other, you know, rose.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Those are very expensive essential oils, and we wouldn't want to rinse that down the drain.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it there's just accountability and intentional, and and I'll say it again, I think ethics are our creative process.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you've thought about that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's very true.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that sometimes when you're smelling, you know, very luxurious scents in hair care, it just makes you wondering kind of is it natural?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it synthetic?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when you did go the natural route, you guys mentioned you went the natural route, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: With every single fragrance.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like how was how was that in terms of the formulation aspect?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because do natural fragrances mix differently in products in terms of, you know, obviously initially, but also their lasting power.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is that different than synthetics?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: So to be we're using 100% essential oils, we're not using any naturally natural fragrance.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Those two can get convoluted sometimes.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the essential oils, they have great saying power.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: We actually made a fragrance a few years ago from milk, the scent of milk, because we got so many requests for it.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it does differ.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody's body chemistry is a little different, and the scent is gonna adapt to your body chemistry.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not so much in the hair, but if you're wearing it like an essential oil scent, it will change.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's no, that's a really important distinction, Hilary.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you corrected me because you know, that's something I I mean, I know nothing about that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what goes into hair care when it comes to the actual fragrance?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because we just, you know, we smell something, we're like, oh, this is phenomenal, you know, and it just makes you, for me as a consumer, it makes you think something in the lab happened where they mixed in the right, you know, scents and bam, here we go.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't think about is it an oil versus you know, not?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that's very interesting.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So do essential oils actually then, you know, my follow-up would be do they actually play a role in the way that your hair or different hair types react to products?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, does that interfere at all?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Has that ever been, you know, a thing with your formulations?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if you could shed a little light there, because I've I I I always heard that essential oils are not good, like in skincare, for example, you know, so I'm just curious.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are certain oils that can be reactive, especially in skincare because they're photosensitive.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: But in hair care, it's not as important to watch out for those things because you're not reacting with largely your scalp is covered by the hair, so any photosensitivity isn't there, and we're not using heavy, those heavy oils that are photosensitive.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: But there are benefits to the essential oils, not all of them.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are just purely for aromatherapy and for the scent of the product, but there are benefits from, for example, our rosemary hydrosol and oil that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That we use the rose oil essential oil and rose hydrosol.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Frankincense has some benefits too.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, spearmint.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's different ones that carry different therapeutic benefits, but not all of them are for therapy.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're just a beautiful scent experience.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for diving into that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I want to actually shift gears a little bit because I know that innovation is kind of on the top of the list right now for a lot of consumers, you know, in the hair care category, at least from what I've been reading and the feedback we get, you know, people always want to know what is going to actually make my hair look amazing, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's always the question.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And from that end, I I want to talk about your anti-frizzed leave-in because it's one of, I think, the hallmark products in your line that I've noticed.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a wonderful, wonderful product.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: What was the inspiration behind this?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, how did you guys get this to work for all hair types?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's truly a wonderful, wonderful product.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, thank you so much.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I really appreciate how much you enjoy our line.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Milk is, you know, it's so wild.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: It was such a garage band at the time.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: I can't even believe that Reverie's grown into what it has, but I had owned a salon.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I obviously couldn't find anything that I really fed my lifestyle because I had been living clean for a very long time.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: And felt like a lot of the on-the-market hair care brands at the time that would claim to be clean still were using fragrance and silicones and color dyes and who knows what else.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I began this journey to find a chemist that I felt could create this idea.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it didn't exist in a traditional hair care manufacturing lab, which is, as Hillary mentioned, how we found ourselves working with a skincare lab.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: When I met this person in person, they didn't want anything to do with it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: They don't touch hair.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing was interesting about getting into hair.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: They were all skin.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, well, that's kind of why this is so exciting and could work.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm grateful that we've had a relationship for 12 years together.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: What's interesting about the anti-frizz leave-in category is that historically at the time, it was a very stagnant, like one-purpose product.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like you could only use these on wet hair.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we thought about at the time you had Moroccan oil, John Frieda Frizzies, Bumble de Frizz, Biosilk, all these very heavy, syrupy silicone products.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so what my my brief understanding of silicone is that they don't biodegrade, they build up on the hair, they take over two weeks just to get out of your hair, creates this epoxy, drying your hair out, sending signals to your scalp to produce more moisture to nourish.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a mess.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I also didn't like at the time, as a salon owner, and and you know, prior to that, there's just a whole library of products, and it seemed not modern.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if someone's gonna go on vacation, you have to take six hair care products to recreate the look your hairdresser did.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: So milk is the first product in the industry not to use silicones in the category, which was breakthrough at the time.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: It also allowed us to use that on hair wet, dry, clean, dirty, hair with extensions, or or maybe a chemical treatment as well.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's kind of an emulsion, it's a blend between oils and lotions, too, which is also why I think it can create, you know, like a different connection with how how much you need to apply versus the previous archetype of it being a heavy syrup texture.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I think that that's what I like about it the most is that it's it doesn't weigh down the hair at all.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's why I was like, this is really, you know, universal.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone can honestly, like anybody can use it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, my fiance has uh curly hair.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know the exact type, the you know, the naming of it, but his curls love it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: My straight hair loves it, you know.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like even my wavy hair loves it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Every like no matter what, it doesn't make my hair change, is the point.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like the style of it doesn't change.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's very, very rare.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I can definitely see you guys being the first in the market because I have been always been a fan, like personally as a consumer, leave-ins were like my like go-to, you know, personally speaking.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people out there might be able to relate, you know, when you're busy, you rely on something that you can just spray in and it's gonna detangle, it's gonna do all of those great things.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, there is a certain like limit that we do hit with leave-ins where it's like, I mean, how does your style come out?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you're walking out the door with wet hair, how's it gonna look?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: But this product, uh, milk for me is just it's truly delivering what it's saying.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's an anti-frizz, it helps with my for me, it helps with flyaways, it helps with like just maintaining that day-to-day style, you know.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I love it so much.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I asked you, like, what did you do?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's it's really, really cool stuff.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's a great product.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: I and I think too, it was a time when I wanted it to be a lifestyle product.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: So if you had one product that can do so many things, you don't just need to apply it in your hair in the morning.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: You can take it with you and reapply it before you go out.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you eat at a restaurant where your clothes and hair is not like the food, you can apply it to kind of neutralize that.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: If you're static y from transportation or whatever, you can reapply it again.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I wanted it to be a lifestyle, not just this transaction relationship with your hair in the morning, but something that can live with you, travel easy with you, and you know, I guess just be there for you.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Especially with January.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is like everyone's talking about like dry January.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you guys, this is the time.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, invest in a good anti-frizz product.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, honestly, like just stop shocking me.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I walk by somebody, I'm getting electrocuted.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a good time to, you know, like spray something in your hair and and something that works.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a truly a great product.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Another one I really love, you guys, is the the Sunnah, the Sunna Exfoliating Shampoo.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to learn about that product because I'm a huge fan.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, personally speaking, I love a good clarifying shampoo.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love a good scalp scrub, I love anything in that category.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a really cool product.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to learn about this and kind of the thought that went behind this specific shampoo.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was a really fun product for us to create.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: That product was we had had the vision for it in our minds, and then we took a trip to Japan together, and it really I don't know what it was about that trip.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can say, but it it really came full circle for us where we saw the bathing rituals and the this the intentionality that goes into the Japanese culture about taking that time for yourself and yeah, slowing down and just being present.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, we've always thought that way about our hair care rituals, but that really I've never been to a culture where we saw that front and center, and the smells were just the Hinoki, and it was just so beautiful.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we came back and immediately were like, okay, this is what the vision is here.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we you'll smell Hanoki in there and a bright uplifting spearmint as a nod to our trip to Japan.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the scent story that Garrett was talking about, how we cultivate the scents.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then the ingredients we wanted, I'm gonna back up for a second because every other scalp scrub on the market, it seems, is loaded with oils and a heavy base of like coconut oil or something of that sort.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted, if we're gonna launch a product, we don't want it to be the same as everybody else's.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's no reason for us to put something on the market if there's already another thing out there like it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to create an oil-free scalp scrub.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So this is based in with raw soul clay that's sourced from Morocca.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have hyaluronic acid in there, or actually rather sodium hyaluronate, the smaller molecule of hyaluronic acid.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's neem oil in there, which is really beautiful and beneficial for the scalp.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: We also have perilite, that's our exfoliation, and fermented bamboo.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then we used something in this product that we hadn't used in any of our products before.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, all of these ingredients were new to us, but I think this mineral complex was specifically really exciting.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's a fermented mineral complex in there of five essential minerals.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was really cool when we were given the clinical data on it.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually proven to improve growth factor expression.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we were like, that is really exciting.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not something we talk about a lot because with all the regulations surrounding hair, hair growth, and you just have to be very careful.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we keep that one to ourselves, but that's pretty complex for us to be using in that product.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, because it was the year it launched, we actually ended up winning an allure allure best of beauty award for scalp treatment category on that product, and also the GQ Men's Grooming Award for that for Suna.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is a really remarkable product because when you mentioned, I mentioned the clay, the Razul clay, I've been a huge fan of this clay.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Morocco is known for just how nourishing some of the ingredients that come out of you know, just Moroccan culture are.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of my favorites.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like this product is one of those, like, yeah, it's it's a scalp, like it's exfoliating your scalp, but I almost look at it as like a nourishing of the scalp.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like if you're using this, anyone out there, if you're you know, you have this product or you should invest in this product, actually, it's really, really that good.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can I I leave mine in, you know, you can leave it in for a little bit.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: It does nourish your scalp, and you're you're not weighing it down, like you said, Hillary.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like those oils and a lot of scalp scrubs, they're terrible.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like you gotta do a whole other cleanse, you know, to get them out.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: But this is, I think, the fact that you guys are really truly like, you know, incorporating nourishing ingredients above all else, that draws me so much into this product and and just the idea of it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because with the scalp, as you guys know, you know, for all the listeners out there, I mean, how many times are we really doing something for our scalp that's gonna make it just healthier, you know, just again, nourish it, you know, really soak it in the right stuff, the right ingredients.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we don't do that enough, as is, you know, we talk a lot about how you shouldn't wash your hair every day and all that good, you know, all that stuff because you don't want all of your oil to be lost, but then we never speak about, well, what do you want to renourish, you know, to put all of that good stuff back in.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this is just one of those products that stands out because of that.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if you are, you know, wanting to put those nutrients back in, you want to do it with something that's going to have like the minerals and the the clay for the purifying and all of those really, really good things.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I love this.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I really love this product, and and I think it's a huge home run, you know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't personally, I don't know anything else like this on the market.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very unique to me as a consumer.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is, it is, I think, a one-of-a-kind product.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more, like you said, it's more of a treatment than than anything.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's a really, really great product.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to actually just ask you, like as a general, right?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like an overview.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone, you know, I've I've always asked, I think every hair care brand that we posted this question, and I, and it varies, but what is like honestly?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Garrett, if you were to express like what good hair is, you know, to somebody, like if a consumer just asks you, what do I need to do to have good hair?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what would be like your elevator pitch kind of answer that, you know, leaves them with an understanding of like what to do?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like what what what is that to you?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like good hair.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna have such a different image than me.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just smiling and giggling about it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's always like a joke where because I I I fly a lot and it's like the last thing you want to tell someone you do is that you're a hairdresser because you're just doing a consultation for three hours.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it's subjective, and I think that everyone's gonna have a everyone's like step forward is gonna look a little bit different than the next.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's certainly not worth being comparative, but really just managing I think having a style that is suitable for the amount of time you have to work on it and that just can flow and live effortlessly with you.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the work that I do behind the chair, I I just cut hair, I don't color and style, I don't use hot tools.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: So my my cuts that I do are created for the person's natural texture.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, that's like my goal as a hairdresser.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so a lot of Reverie's products are more focused on soft styling, but treatment.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so everything's gonna be lightweight, more as a leave-in, milk you can air dry with, rake you can just air dry with, and get the cast and support and anti-frizz that you need.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're my kind of uh hairstylist, actually.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that natural look, and you don't have to do much to it.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't dry blow dry my hair at all.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I I feel you on that.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I think that's interesting.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's definitely interesting because I think a lot of people, you know, it's always about the styling.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the answers I've gotten to that question is about styling products and stuff.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm curious to see, you know, how many people could resonate with that where it's like about the natural look, about what your hair is naturally doing.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, that's that's really the for a telltale if a product is good or not, you know.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: If it can I can spray it in, if I can put it in my hair, and then my the way my hair dries down, it's gonna look phenomenal, you know.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that's very interesting.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, in my opinion, it's modern.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so if we take a step back and we look at Pam Anderson's approach to Fashion Week and how she showed up with natural hair and no makeup, and it was the talk of every editor, it was the talk of the entire week.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was it expressed confidence, and you know what?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: When she was interviewed, she's just like done having a hundred people touch her hair and spending that much time.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not modern.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: People have other things they want to do.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: So creating products that can execute those results, I think, are really what consumers are looking for.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I think the natural look is it's just looks better to me personally.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I've heard a lot of people say that too, is that it just feels like more personable, you know, it's not cookie cutter, it's not like you've got you've you know curled your hair to oblivion and everyone looks the same.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm I kind of buy into that philosophy as well.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So but you know, I want to ask you guys as a kind of a round out question, you know, what's next, Reverie?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a beautiful line as is.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have such wonderful hallmark, you know, uh SKUs in the collection.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious what's coming up.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like literally literally, what product is launching next, or like what Yeah, like any anything on the horizon that's interesting uh that you could share with us.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you wanna, yeah, we got a launch coming up.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um we're hoping end of March or beginning of April.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: We don't really talk about it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: I uh in fact, even when Hillary and I were first started dating, I was uncomfortable sharing just names of products.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: I've always been really guarded with it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: But we this product that we are launching is a styling product, and it will be the first in our line that I think will elevate volume and different, I guess, just different do's, different concepts.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really new for us, uh, still keeping with our philosophy of treating the hair, but this is really gonna elevate it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see that.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations for the new product coming up.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's very cool.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, so I for everyone listening, I just want to, you know, make sure you guys definitely check out the brand.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: We will tag everything in the concept cart for this episode.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of the brand, and I really genuinely mean that, you know.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really love products that again, you know, kind of restating what or Garrett was explaining, you know, it's very important to have your natural style.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very important to have, you know, products that will support that.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think in the market right now, there's just not, at least from what I see, there's not enough options and there's not enough things that are meant for everybody.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing, you know.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: We love talking about things like inclusivity.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, you know, Hillary, if you agree or not, but inclusivity is such a vague term to me now, you know, in terms of like what what are you what do you really mean by that?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: P everybody has their own definition, but I think with hair care, if you can put something in your hair and it does what it's supposed to do, it makes your hair look the way you want it to look.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is inclusivity.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I've definitely seen Reverie being used on different hair types, different, you know, people, male, female, and everyone that I've you know heard feedback from is loving it and I love it myself.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I really, really uh encourage you guys check out the brand.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know what you think.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you already, you know, do use the product, let us know.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for tuning in.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be back next time.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 39:55
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• 40:00
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• 40:02
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• 40:17
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• 40:34
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• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.