Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - 13th Doctor Special (ft Frazer Gregory, Daniel Knight & Daniel Rawnsley)

Transcript

Strictly Come Hamster - 13th Doctor Special (ft Frazer Gregory, Daniel Knight & Daniel Rawnsley) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:00
You are the maddest, most beautiful thing I've ever
0:08
experienced and I haven't even scratched the surface.
0:13
I wish I could stay, but if either of us are going to
0:18
survive, you're going to have to let me go and keep on being
0:21
brilliant by yourself. I miss you, I miss it all so
0:32
much, I know, but if you do this, I promise you and I will
0:40
be friends forever. You have.
0:44
To let me go. I will dream of you out there
0:53
without me. The.
1:42
Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster.
1:45
My name is Joe Ford and I guess I should say, are you fam?
1:50
We are here. Oh dear.
1:51
That was really high pitched. I'm so sorry.
1:53
We are. Silla.
1:55
She's a journalist, ladies and gentlemen, We are here today to
2:01
determine the ultimate. Not the best, not the worst, not
2:07
our favorite. Because my favorite may not win
2:10
the ultimate Jodie Whittaker 13th Doctor episode.
2:16
Sorry, I've totally lost my trailer for that.
2:19
We should. I will say before I introduce
2:20
anybody, we were supposed to have Dylan Reece, you know, 13th
2:24
Doctor lover extraordinaire, on the panel today.
2:28
Alas, be more exciting if I leave it mysterious that he is
2:32
indisposed today and given that he is the generator of great
2:38
rumours. Please take that piece of
2:40
information and do whatever you want with it.
2:43
Start spreading it, folks. That's fine.
2:45
We'll just say get well soon Dylan, and I hope you get it out
2:47
quick. And go to another caterers, for
2:50
God's sakes. Ah well, there was a voice that
2:53
everybody recognises there, the man of controversial opinions
2:59
who somehow manages to take a three-part Doctor Who story and
3:04
spin a 5 hour commentary out of it.
3:06
Mr. Fraser Gregory. Hello, Fraser.
3:09
Well, hello everybody. Don't worry, I'll let you know
3:12
when it's time for piss break when I'm about to talk, so we'll
3:15
be good. Fraser, I'm going to throw
3:17
something immediate everybody today, and that is for the one
3:20
word description that you think best describes the 13th Doctor.
3:28
Certainly the Doctor, the era or.
3:30
The Doctor. Just the doctor itself.
3:33
Joy. Oh.
3:35
Absolutely. And Next up, a man who has not
3:39
ducked into my doorway for a little while now, not since he
3:45
gave us some outrageous opinions in the season 10.
3:49
Strictly come hamster. Mr. Daniel Knight.
3:52
Hello, Daniel. Hello.
3:54
Were they? Were they?
3:55
I, I. Yeah, I think they weren't that
3:57
bad, were they? My comments, my opinions, they
4:00
were about no, no, there was a lot of no adult love flood
4:04
flooding around. And now I enjoyed it.
4:07
Yeah. No, it was good fun.
4:08
Yes. Well, since we've done one of
4:10
these, we seem to do them when I'm about to go on holiday as
4:13
well, because last year when we did the season 12/1 with, yeah,
4:17
we're just about to go on holiday again.
4:19
Well, as far as I'm concerned, you're always going on on the
4:21
day there. And what's your one word
4:24
description of the 13th Doctor? Because Because Fraser, like the
4:29
one I was going to use. Oh.
4:32
Gosh, you have mine and I'll pick another one if that makes.
4:35
It easier. No, no, no, no, no, no.
4:36
You go for the joy and I'll go for the warmth.
4:44
As for now, I've said warmth. I can think of one time when it
4:46
wasn't. She wasn't particularly warm,
4:49
but yeah. Is that when she committed 3
4:52
genocides in one go? OK, 22 points.
5:00
And the man who is currently tiptoeing his way through
5:04
Elizabeth Slayden's greatest hits in The Sarah Jane
5:08
Adventures, Mr. Daniel Romsey. Hello, Daniel.
5:12
This is it's quite a French that hello.
5:18
What's that offer? Oh, stay tuned, Daniel.
5:25
What is your one word to describe the 13th Doctor?
5:29
Luminous. Luminous.
5:31
So we've had joyful luminous and Daniel, what was yours again?
5:35
Warmth. OK, I'm certainly getting a
5:37
theme here, and the word I was going to throw in was Sunny,
5:42
which is all of those things together.
5:46
So I'm guessing we're all getting sort of good feelings
5:49
from the 13th Doctor, which. Is a good.
5:51
Place to start Now chaps, to kick us off, I'm going to ask
5:58
you please to give give me your summation of the era.
6:03
So that's season 1112 and 13. When I say season, of course, I
6:09
mean series and the specials that come after.
6:12
But just, you know, a quick sort of overview of how you found the
6:16
era as a whole. Let's shake up the order and I'm
6:19
going to hit Daniel Rosley first.
6:22
Oh me. Oh God.
6:23
OK, well I've been on quite a journey with the 13th Doctor.
6:30
If I was ever to write an essay about it, it would probably be
6:34
called How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jodie
6:38
Whittaker Era because this was initially a time when I started
6:42
to wonder if maybe Doctor Who wasn't for me anymore.
6:48
Now this story has a happy ending, so don't worry.
6:51
The first reason is I don't think I'm alone in this.
6:54
But after years of watching Doctor Who being made by Steven
6:58
Moffat and Russell T Davies on a sort of steady yearly diet, I
7:03
have to admit I was quite thrown by the direction that Chris
7:07
Chibnall took the show in. Where it was a bit more muted,
7:10
it was a bit more of the Sunday night drama and this just
7:13
massive overhaul of the look, the feel, the music, the actors,
7:17
the the characters. I've talked, I've talked about
7:21
this with Jim Allenby before, who may or may not be a 13th
7:27
Doctor fan, I'm not sure. And he said said you have to
7:31
kind of retune your brain sometimes as a Doctor Who fan
7:34
when you watch different periods of the show.
7:37
So back in 2018, I remember thinking the the beginning of
7:41
Series 11 was fantastic, and then not long afterwards
7:45
starting to feel like I couldn't quite connect with what Chibnall
7:49
was going for. I admired it more than I liked
7:53
it initially, and I think it was because I was finding it hard to
7:59
let go of all my preconceptions and my expectations of what
8:02
Doctor Who was supposed to be. So there was a bit of an
8:06
adjustment period, but basically the I just needed to broaden my
8:10
horizons a bit and get over myself a little bit.
8:13
So that was actually the easy part.
8:15
What the harder part was the dreaded discourse around the
8:21
show, because that didn't help at all.
8:24
I think that came Series 11 came around just when the culture
8:28
wars were starting to take off. And it felt to me like a lot of
8:32
the loud, very toxic voices were basically dictating the
8:36
conversation in fandom and drowning out everything else.
8:40
And this was before I discovered all these fabulous Doctor Who
8:44
podcasts that you actually want to listen to this.
8:47
One is quite loud and it does drown out a lot of the.
8:50
It is loud. But it's a fun loud.
8:55
So I'm I am ashamed to say I I came pretty close to letting
8:59
those voices actually win. Not that I agreed with any of
9:02
them, but I it was starting to affect my enjoyment of the show
9:07
where I wasn't really looking forward to watching it every
9:09
week. I was putting off watching it.
9:11
I was trying to convince myself that I was enjoying it more than
9:13
I was to a point where I was starting to wonder, are are they
9:16
right? You know, have I outgrown Doctor
9:18
Who? No, of course the answer was no,
9:22
because I'm actually now in a place in my life where I've got
9:26
quite enough Doctor Who to be getting on with.
9:28
So it's actually quite relaxing now that I can, I can find
9:32
something to to enjoy in every era, in every era of the show,
9:36
in every part of the show. And I'm delighted to say that
9:40
today I'm, I'm very, very, very, very fond of of this era.
9:45
It's a kinder, gentler Doctor Who.
9:48
It's a bit more thoughtful, it's a bit more contemplative.
9:52
It looks and it feels different and weird as Doctor Who should
9:56
borrowing some of the format of the earlier eras of the show and
10:00
making a clean break of everything that came before.
10:03
And I think in, I'd go far as to say in terms of just distilling
10:08
what you want to do with modern 21st century Doctor Who, the
10:12
kind of ambition, the variety, the risk taking, the the
10:16
generosity of spirit that you would want from a show that's
10:19
constantly reinventing itself. This for me would be the way
10:24
forward. And so very briefly over the
10:28
three seasons, I mean that you get a lovely set of standalone
10:30
stories with Series 11, then series 12, they bring the
10:34
continuity back and The Master and Gallifrey.
10:37
And I remember catching up with that on on on on DVD and
10:41
absolutely dreading episodes like Orphan 55 and The Timeless
10:44
Children. And then coming finally sitting
10:48
down to watch them and thinking that's what everyone's been
10:50
slagging off for weeks on end. Really enjoyable and yes even
10:56
the Masters 15 minute PowerPoint presentation but.
11:00
Well, we'll get on to that. We're OK.
11:02
Show me the rest. I'm not sure you can cope with
11:06
much I. Have a right to know my own life
11:12
all. Right, but I'm not sure it's
11:21
going to make you happy and. I think that dissonance of
11:26
opinion, of sort of seeing something so completely
11:29
different from what everyone was saying online, well, not
11:31
everyone, but the loud voice, the loud, not fun voices we're
11:35
saying online. It taught me the lesson of, you
11:38
know, it's, it's important to make up your own mind about
11:41
stuff and not just uncritically repeat stuff you've heard on
11:46
this website or that forum, especially when it comes to
11:49
Doctor Who. And so, yeah, by the time Flux
11:52
rolled around, I was watching live again.
11:54
I was excited, you might say I was ride or die for Doctor Who
11:59
again, to quote a big finish or audio.
12:02
And I think it's by far her her best season just because it's
12:06
just so exhilarating assembled and against impossible odds.
12:11
And, and I give Chris Chibnell all the credit in the world for
12:15
brilliantly reintroducing and reinventing all the big bads of
12:20
the show, the Master, the Cybermen, the Daleks especially,
12:24
and, and, and also Sega Nakanola's music, which really
12:30
clicked for me around resolution on New Year's Day, just because
12:35
that absolutely head banging Dalek theme, which I just think
12:41
is one of the best pieces of music he's composed ever.
12:45
Yeah, it's it's brilliant. It's brilliant.
12:49
Oh, wonderful. You know, I mean, I've got
12:50
nothing else to add. That was beautiful.
12:52
Thank you. Dare we skip across now to
12:57
Fraser? Yes.
13:00
By all means, dare, because I'm going to agree with Daniel quite
13:03
a lot there. I was very much the same when
13:06
when I came down, sat down to watch the first series, series
13:12
11, it felt a bit of weird, didn't it?
13:15
It felt a little bit like I'm not used to this.
13:18
And I think that was very much part of the problem we had, what
13:21
is it, 10 years of of of? Moffett 810, Yeah.
13:26
Yeah, Rusty and Moffett. Dark times, yeah.
13:31
Because yeah. It would have been about 10.
13:33
It'd been more than 10, wouldn't it?
13:34
Because it was 2005, the show came back and it was 2018.
13:39
And let's see these 11 came out, remember, because it was the
13:41
year my son was born. And I need to remember these
13:44
things. But yeah.
13:46
Well, you know, we've had years, you know, a decade and a bit of,
13:50
of, of Doctor Who from these two.
13:52
And let's face it, though they are quite different at times,
13:55
they are both still, you know, 2 cheeks of the same horse.
13:58
You know, they write Doctor Who very much the same.
14:00
You know, the Doctor is a hero. The Doctor travels with purpose
14:04
and vengeance and right wrongs left, right and center and, you
14:08
know, has trauma and baggage and personality defects and all this
14:13
that and other. And this is not what Chris
14:15
Chibnall set out to do. Chris Chibnall set out to bring
14:17
us very much back to the classic year with the Doctor that
14:20
wonders. The Doctor that wonders
14:22
hopefully travels hopefully. Does she say not saying bottle
14:25
of Ransko? I've called us.
14:27
That's how you pronounce it, folks, stop being stupid.
14:29
It's not funny anymore. You know, So having this, it's,
14:34
it's, it's the kind of equivalent of, you know, imagine
14:36
you eating McDonald's three times a day for three months.
14:40
You know, all you're getting is this over processed, over
14:43
seasoned food full of additives, full of chlorinated chicken,
14:47
full of, you know, fat and salt and everything.
14:50
And then you all of a sudden you start eating from fine dining
14:53
restaurants. You, you have this disconnected,
14:55
like where's my salt gone? Where's my?
14:57
And you're getting something a little bit more refined and a
14:59
little bit more palatable. You don't.
15:02
The Moffett era was toxic. But two cheeks same as so.
15:09
But it's it's, it's that difference, isn't it?
15:11
It's that change. And you know, for for this
15:15
century at least, you know, back in classic who were quite used
15:18
to this the conveyor belt of producers.
15:20
But for this one, I felt much more of a, of a of a quantum
15:24
leap, as it were, but at the same time, not because it was
15:27
still Doctor Who. It was still, you know, jump in
15:30
a tortoise, go somewhere backwards, forward, sideways in
15:32
time, have an adventure, save the day right off.
15:34
But much like Daniel, you know, I grew to love this series this
15:39
this era, you know, it just got better and better as it went on.
15:42
We had, you know, the first series, which you said very
15:45
standard own very light on the continent with no returning
15:49
monsters, no returning characters apart from Tim Shaw.
15:52
Then you have your second one and the the continuity gets in
15:54
and it builds up and then you get the flux and oh, flux me.
15:58
That was great, wasn't it? That was one of the best series
16:00
we've ever had. Certainly bought and who?
16:02
Absolutely phenomenal. So it just.
16:05
Got better and better and then we'll come to power with the
16:07
Doctor, which we'll talk about in a bit, which was just the
16:09
perfect ending to both this era and this Doctor.
16:15
It just summed everything up so well of what we loved so much,
16:19
the visuals if this year and the director's coming through like
16:24
JB Magna Stone and the way it looked, the cinematography and
16:28
the light and just again something like fresh, new,
16:32
exciting, the music 2nd and all that.
16:34
I will bang his drum as well because let's be honest guys,
16:37
this century he has given us the best arrangement of the theme
16:40
tune hands down. The scariest, too.
16:44
Certainly the best. Weirdest sounding, yeah.
16:47
I'm I'm going to put my hand up and say I think that's the end
16:50
music of Demons of the Fun Job, which I still think is the best
16:54
Doctor Who figure arrangement we've ever had.
16:56
I think it's beautiful. Well.
16:58
We'll agree to disagree on that one because I just think you
17:00
know the the drum, you know the starting with the bit and the
17:03
bass drop and then in come the drums and.
17:06
Yeah, the slight pause and then. The rhythm that's pounds, it's
17:11
brilliant. When you go through the hula
17:13
hoop. It's just to to just say about,
17:17
but it's just the fact that he used somebody's voice to do the
17:20
theme shoot. I just thought it was stunning.
17:22
Just all of his music was stunning.
17:23
Yeah, it was, it was. And but again, it's it's that
17:26
change, you know, we've we had years and years and years of
17:28
Murray Gold kind of going right, kids.
17:31
It's the funny bit. You're sad, you're sad.
17:34
You're very sad bit sad. I please.
17:37
It's fun again, you know, and just to have someone come in
17:40
that knows the art of sort of background music as it were,
17:44
just made it, you know, very subtle, very melodic, ethereal
17:50
at times. It blended in the background.
17:52
It enhanced rather than overpowered scenes, which which
17:55
we can do at times. Don't get us wrong, it's
17:57
brilliant in other parts, but it was just such a lovely change.
18:01
The sort of the dynamic as well, you know, having three
18:04
companions. You're having an older
18:05
companion, Caston Bradley Walsh. You know, will we ever learn
18:08
Doctor Who fans, when there's a casting that we think is going
18:10
to be shit? It's not Come on.
18:13
He knocked it out the park. And just like, oh, to call him
18:18
John Bishop did as well with with Dan, you know, the this bit
18:23
of casting, you know, the going back to the three companions,
18:26
which gives you a lot more freedom to do, you know, you can
18:29
have you can pair people off. You can separate people in
18:31
before you can have, you know, three.
18:33
You know what, it's just gives you so much more opportunities.
18:36
But you know, I'll give you one word for the whole year.
18:40
And that's subtle because Christian is a subtle writer.
18:44
And that's what we got. We didn't get, you know, the big
18:46
sort of like this is the arc of the Doctor.
18:49
He's sad and lonely. It was so subtle.
18:53
You you almost the point you'll pick it up.
18:55
You've got to go kind of go back and pay attention more.
18:57
You've got to watch something like the ghost Monument where
19:02
you know Graham and Ryan. You know, Ryan is just not there
19:06
with Graham at all. You know, he's just really
19:09
standoffish and, you know, doesn't want to be in his
19:11
company until you get to sort of battle of Oscar and collars
19:14
where he's like, you know, saving his soul basically, you
19:18
know, it takes away before told him granddad, that sort of
19:21
stuff. You know, that's, that's the
19:23
awe, that's the counter of, but you just don't see it because
19:25
you're so used to. It's kind.
19:27
Of amazing. My hair is quivering in the rain
19:29
now. But just to wrap up, because you
19:33
know, I will go on forever, the one big take away I have from
19:36
this era is, is is the one word that I would use to describe the
19:39
whole thing. Not just the doctor, but the
19:40
whole era, the doctor, the writer and the music.
19:43
It's family, family for me and it's because this is the first
19:48
one I sat down and watched with my family.
19:51
You know, I've watched Doctor Who with my son before and you
19:55
know, after as well. But this is the one that we sat
19:58
down as a family to watch. It was 7:00 on a Sunday.
20:01
We kind of thought, right, this is a good time.
20:03
My son was 6 turning 7 at the time.
20:06
So I thought, you know, 7:00 if we get his homework done on a
20:09
Sunday night. That's getting ready for bed.
20:11
We can watch Doctor Hill at 7 and he goes to bed at 8.
20:13
And that's what we did for sort of, was it 10 weeks, You know,
20:16
we watched Doctor Who every night and it was just such an
20:20
absolute joy, you know? He Mrs. Departed for into the
20:26
Darling, didn't she? She did.
20:28
It wasn't for her anymore, did she come back for Jodie?
20:31
Yes, she did. She.
20:31
Came back we watched the three of us, you know, we had Arlo,
20:35
who was we've been six months old at the time.
20:37
You know, he got him to bed at 7:00.
20:39
You know, we did the the the CBS bedtime hour and then switched
20:43
Doctor Who on and, you know, just sitting watching, you know,
20:45
look, I was just absolutely swept away.
20:47
He you know, he was, you know, you know, curling up in his
20:52
blanket for bracketed in the UK, you know, he was he was going
20:56
over the bank and me wife and saying, don't worry, Mammy, I'll
20:58
this is a scary bit. I'll look after you when.
21:02
You know when. The TARDIS comes back at the end
21:04
of the ghost monument. He literally punched the air in
21:07
delight at that bit. And yeah, Toby Haydock's
21:10
probably sitting listening to this thing.
21:11
You can't do nostalgia when you're like, sorry, Toby, but
21:14
that means so much to me. That just powers a lot of
21:17
emotion. He drifted off at 12 and it got
21:19
a bit more continuity, but then we came back for Flux.
21:22
Are you talking about? That's all he does.
21:24
He talks about when he watched Doctor Who back in the day, but.
21:28
You know that that, that that just sums it all up for me
21:31
family, my family watching Doctor Who, the doctors family
21:34
on the screen, growing and developing and and look,
21:37
learning how to look after each other.
21:38
That's that's this era for me. Well, also.
21:42
The the family is a big, big motif in especially series 11
21:47
like the fam, but also the home life of Rosa Parks, the family
21:52
secrets in demons of the Punjab parenthood in the Suranga
21:56
conundrum and and even the the feuding family members in in the
22:01
witch finders. You know, and it takes it takes
22:03
your way as well. It's the conclusion they.
22:05
Reach in power of the Doctor, isn't it?
22:07
But it's not Sarah J Smith going.
22:09
You've got the biggest family in the world.
22:12
Why? You know, like, no, you just
22:14
have all those. Family, lovely people sitting.
22:17
In a circle together, sharing stories and laughing and oh God,
22:20
it's gorgeous. Well, Daniel, subtle.
22:23
You've got, you've got to try. And top this pair, good luck,
22:26
they're going to manage it, but. But it felt the first series
22:32
that she did, it felt a real 1987 moment feel to it.
22:37
But I think there were genuinely people gunning for this era
22:42
before it it had even been aired or even probably even filmed,
22:48
she said. Daniel, she read the.
22:50
Tweets, didn't she? Do you remember she read the
22:52
tweets before anyone has seen anything and I.
22:55
Won't be honest I. We were.
22:58
I didn't see. The didn't see the reveal when
23:01
it was announced because it was it was the day of our village
23:05
has a vehicle show every year, every summer and it clashed with
23:08
that. And we were halfway around the
23:12
village show and my wife showed me her phone and said Jodie
23:14
Whitt says BBC News Jodie Whittaker And I rolled my eyes.
23:18
I thought OK, they have gone and done it because it wasn't
23:20
confirmed that. Then I watched the reveal when I
23:22
got home and thought, no, come on, teaspoon in an open mind.
23:28
Come on, let's be let's let's not write this era off just yet.
23:33
Don't don't do what everyone else is seemingly doing.
23:36
And as you said, Daniel, there's a lot of very negative voices
23:40
with domineering the conversation as it as it was in
23:44
1987, back in 1987 when season 24, it was pilloried.
23:49
And I actually wrote into Doctor Who magazine and said how much I
23:52
love Time in Irani, which I still do.
23:55
Correct. Bravo.
23:57
Sir, they called me David. Knight, I think possibly.
24:01
I've got to go look at that. No, it was to keep.
24:04
You anonymous, so no one came up absolutely to protect my.
24:07
Identity. But I just thought even now it's
24:11
it's so it. It it.
24:14
Funding just doesn't learn, You know, the the casting of Bradley
24:19
Walsh and as you say, Fraser, he knocked out of the park.
24:22
He was he gave he was funny, he was warm.
24:25
He there was that the the the parts in round score have kolos
24:30
where you kind of think is he going to go rogue?
24:32
Is he going to? That is unforgettable that I
24:35
would have loved to, to maybe. And I know that it was like
24:38
written made on a first draft and they could have done a bit
24:41
more with that. But it felt really good.
24:44
Some really nice sort of character work.
24:46
And as you say, with the four of them, you could get that nice
24:49
mix of the dynamics, the Doctor with the Doctor with Ryan or or
24:55
the Doctor with Yaz. And yeah, I just, I, I thought
24:59
I'd no go into this season with an open mind and it was
25:02
different. And I had kind of fallen out of,
25:05
out of love with Doctor, with the, with the smugness of
25:09
Moffett's writing. Occasionally, not all the time,
25:13
but it did sometimes. Really most of the time.
25:16
I mean, I, I will. Somebody once asked me when I
25:21
because the day Power of the Doctor was aired, I did a
25:24
commentary with Jason Miller or I did.
25:26
No, it was one of his Doctor literature podcasts.
25:31
And he said to me, what? How?
25:32
Does it compare with the C Moffett era?
25:35
And I think the highs of the Moffett era may be a little bit
25:38
higher, but the lows for me are so much lower than the lows of
25:42
the Chibnal era. Whereas I wouldn't say it's flat
25:45
lines, but it's, it's a lot more consistent in far in my opinion
25:49
anyway. The Chibnal era, Jodi era is a
25:52
lot more consistent in terms of tone and writing.
25:55
I think as you say, it looks beautiful and I, and I don't,
26:00
and this is what Doctor fans always do, compare one era to
26:02
another. I don't think we've seen the
26:04
level of beauty in cinema, in the cinematography of saved
26:08
demons at the Punjab or that fantastic crane shot or drone
26:13
shot of Liverpool Dogs Boy, I think.
26:18
We've seen. Anything that's good or that
26:22
that spectacular since possibly that bit in the Interstellar
26:27
Song Contest where all those bodies fly up, but it's.
26:30
It's just really. Blown me away as as to with the
26:36
money that they had for the Jodi era how and also under the
26:40
circumstances. I will say though, looking at
26:44
the episodes that that have been sort of voted as as best and
26:47
runners up, it does it does seem to fall into two categories.
26:52
Beautiful and sunny or wet and miserable.
26:57
Kind of the demons of the Punjab to a miserable Welsh.
27:00
Sorry, Norwegian fjord side hillside before it takes you
27:05
away. And then it's it's yeah, I mean
27:08
it it probably was raining in the Crimean War.
27:12
So, Doctor, you're in a. Volcano, I don't get hotter than
27:15
that. Well, I mean you.
27:17
Know what's hotter the the little bit of sexual tension
27:20
between Graham and Ace or or the volcano I.
27:24
Don't know. How long did it take?
27:26
You, Daniel, to realise that they were the same age.
27:30
I was like this. Is very Oh no, wait.
27:34
Yeah. I would have.
27:35
And I'm still waiting for either Big Finish or for, you know, you
27:40
know, Russell T Davis said. What about the spinners?
27:42
I mean Chipnell. Handed.
27:45
RTDA spin off on a plate, that last scene with those companions
27:50
all around talk. I mean, it's like just.
27:53
Beautiful I. Was I spent most of the power of
27:56
the Doctor in tears? I spent most of Orphan in Orphan
28:00
55 in tears, but not not but not the rough sort of the same sort
28:03
of tears of laughter. I assume you know jokes about
28:06
things being after and who. Ordered a comedy?
28:09
Farrell, but there we go. Yeah.
28:14
So I, I, I, I, I feel very much. And since the Jodi, you know,
28:20
just before the Jodi era started, we did have a massive
28:24
shift in the national psyche, certainly in this country from,
28:27
you know, you have Brexit, you have Trump.
28:29
Suddenly the the incels and the and the rise of sort of like
28:34
more sort of misogynistic and they were deliberately gunning
28:38
for the first female doctor. Oh, yeah.
28:40
And suddenly always woke. Like, did you not listen to
28:45
Peter Capaldi's speech in in the Zygon Inversion?
28:49
You're just saying it won't because the doctor no longer has
28:51
a penis. That's what it is.
28:53
That's basically what it boils down to.
28:55
Daniel, look at. Starfleet Academy right now,
28:57
which has just been cancelled. Those voices are louder than
29:00
they are. They're just.
29:02
Yeah, I, I think, yeah, we've got, yeah, the world's in a
29:06
really crap place at the moment. Thanks.
29:09
And that's. Why we do this?
29:11
And and but it just. It just felt.
29:15
It feels. Like like season 24.
29:17
It just feels so unfair that this is being this.
29:21
This era is being written off probably without even people
29:25
actually bothering to bothering to watch it.
29:27
Oh, I can think of a Radio Times quote, which I won't.
29:31
I won't quote the writer because it's just worthless anyway.
29:34
But it was when when the 6th I I wish I'd I wish I'd written it
29:38
down, but the 60 when the 60s came up in the Radio Times, some
29:42
writer who obviously had not watched it said, let's face it,
29:46
Doctor Who has been lackluster of late, lacking the flash of
29:49
sparkle of earlier years. And I just responded to that by
29:53
basically just screenshotting moments of a spectacular moment,
29:57
some of the Jodie Whitaker and saying well, and just repeat put
30:00
a posting the quote above them saying yeah, bullshit.
30:05
But you know this. Is this is something that's been
30:07
going on for years? I remember in the wilderness
30:09
years, you know, whenever Doctor Who was in the Radio Times, the
30:11
7th Doctor got an absolute slate.
30:14
And always, you know, always George, you know, ages.
30:18
No, no, no. Because you know me, I've, I've,
30:20
I'm sort of hit and miss with that.
30:21
But I that that because Doctor Who ended there, that became the
30:26
story was it was so bad at the same end.
30:29
And it's, it's interesting. That obviously a lot of fans
30:32
would have agreed with that at the time, but you know, we go
30:34
back to things and we look at them and we reappraise them and
30:37
reassess them. And certainly apart from you
30:40
Joe, everyone looks the 7th Doctor now and is.
30:42
And yeah, I don't think they do, you know?
30:44
Are failing. Things are going.
30:46
Yeah, I think it is. It is nice, you know, and this
30:49
is something that I did predict would happen at the time that,
30:52
you know, people are now starting to come back to this
30:53
era and yes, quicker than I. Expected.
30:56
Actually, wait till we get. To the comments, yeah, well,
30:59
just before we. Do that I.
31:00
Just want to kind of circle back to something Daniel said there
31:02
about chip. No, given, you know, whistle
31:06
spin offs on a plate, but you give them something else on a
31:08
plate as well. Which was the format for.
31:13
You know the series going. Forward he literally handed an
31:15
us with especially with flux you know 6 episodes you know any
31:19
series yeah mini. Series, you know.
31:22
I just can't get my head wrong way.
31:23
He didn't do that, but also wasn't.
31:25
Deliberate. Though his hand was forced, he
31:27
wanted A10 part regular season. It wasn't like Shivers when I'm
31:32
going to redefine Doctor Who. He was forced into that
31:35
position, but at the same time. You know, you look at the way
31:39
television is now, we don't the shows that are a successful
31:42
things like Stranger things like the Mandalorian, the ones that
31:44
are getting the big books with the Disney and it's all the same
31:47
format so but. You.
31:49
Think. You know, why didn't you know?
31:52
Chibnall did that with Doctor Who and it really, really
31:54
worked. But more than anything, you
31:56
know, you know, Russell has been quite vocal and honest and open
32:00
about, you know, how he's trying to make television now for the
32:03
kids, you know, the, the the iPhone generation, the ones that
32:07
aren't particularly paying attention, you know, the ones
32:09
that haven't got the the memory span to, you know, over 45
32:12
minutes. You the thing that struck me
32:15
going back and watching these episodes we're about to talk
32:17
about was just how much Chibnall was doing that.
32:20
You know, all of these stories zip along.
32:22
There is so much packed into them.
32:24
It's almost as if he has written a four part classic Doctor Who
32:28
story. Give it to Ben Cook and said,
32:29
right, do your best with that mate.
32:30
And they've chopped it down in for 50 minutes.
32:34
It. So it really struck me.
32:36
You say, well, this is what Russell's trying to do now and
32:39
probably not doing as well, probably feeling a little bit,
32:43
you know, go back and look at what this man gave you, you
32:46
know, things like that. The fugitive Dr. that was the
32:49
biggest sandbox possible to give to your next show.
32:52
And I'd say there you go. There's there's something you
32:54
can go and play with. We got. 2 1/2 seconds of her in
32:58
the story in the engine we've been complaining about.
33:02
Unlike the rest of you. I really loved season 11 when it
33:06
came out. I really, really liked it.
33:07
I mean, Rosa, it takes you away. Demons of the Punjab, It was
33:11
some of the best Doctor Who I've seen in the new series and far
33:14
more to my taste than the parody of Doctor Who they had become
33:19
during the Steven Moffett era, the sitcom version of Doctor
33:22
Who, you know, and, and all of those timer army tricks, which
33:25
we saw again and again and again.
33:27
And yes, they were occasionally used really, really well, but
33:30
they were used a lot. You go and look at the Swanga
33:33
conundrum, Demons of the Punjab, Kablam, what am I missing?
33:38
The witch Finders, It takes you away.
33:41
You're not going to find five more diverse Doctor Who episodes
33:44
tonally back-to-back in its entire run.
33:48
That's what he took it back to. He was like, we're going to,
33:50
we're going to literally do, we're going to take you
33:53
anywhere, anywhere in time and space.
33:55
But also tonally with RTD, you know, you're going to get
33:59
something fast moving and there's going to be lots of
34:02
interesting gags. And think with Moffett, you know
34:05
it's going to be Tommy Weiner. I just didn't know what I was
34:07
going to get from week to week in Series 11.
34:09
And that was so exciting. I was looking at the trailer for
34:12
the next one going, bloody hell, we're off into space.
34:14
Amazon, we've just been to India.
34:16
What's happening here? I loved it.
34:19
And then 12 came along and I could see he had taken a change
34:22
of direction. And I do think he does that
34:24
every single year throughout his era.
34:27
With 12, he's like, right, like youth Daniel.
34:29
We're going to focus in on continuity.
34:32
I'm going to make my big mark on Doctor Who this year.
34:35
I'm going to upend the mythology of Doctor Who and then watch the
34:41
consequences afterwards. And good for him.
34:44
It was the biggest swing I think, that anyone took in the
34:47
new series today. But at the same time, he brought
34:51
a lot of energy, much more focus on set pieces, big visual.
34:57
Suddenly second, I can learn. This music went from being very
34:59
ambient in that first series to being really bombastic and
35:03
exciting in the second series. Ambushed him.
35:10
On his way to work for his first day, shrunk him, took his
35:14
identity and set myself up in MI 6.
35:18
Surprisingly good stuff done to you.
35:24
I have had and lots of fun. A little 1 Barton.
35:33
It's not here. Where's Barton?
35:36
What have you done to him? Barton Well, let's start on the
35:39
plane. Wrong question.
35:42
Check the seat, cockpit bone, short fuse.
35:54
I can relate to that now. Do you really think?
35:59
That I would not make that Sonic.
36:00
Proof, Doctor. Come on, deadlock sealed and I
36:07
made sure no parachutes. On board there.
36:11
Must be a way the way is back and we.
36:16
Saw him coming. In he called away before take
36:18
off. By me stick with me Yas because
36:21
I control everything even these guys I can't do it go
36:53
away. It was almost like.
36:54
He felt, well, maybe we'd gone a little bit too, and I'll use
36:57
your word, phraser subtle. And we had lost people because
37:01
we did, you know, the ratings did fall throughout that first
37:03
year from 12 million to 5 million.
37:06
That's a fair drop throughout the year and you're going to get
37:09
some drop, but that's a a big drop.
37:12
And consistently the numbers then were just coming in very
37:15
consistent for our second year. And I think stuff like dear Dasi
37:20
offered by I think is an absolute bang.
37:23
I'm sorry, Daniel, Jesus Christ, and as much as I may, I think
37:28
it's a great story. But it's scuppered by some very
37:31
dubious directoral choices. I'll say that I think it looks
37:35
great, but I think there are some parts of it where you just
37:38
kind of think. You know what if you're?
37:40
Gonna get some woman screeching Benny 17 times in 17 has anyone?
37:46
Seen my Benny? We're getting him back.
37:51
That's not my Benny. See.
37:54
Look how. Happy she makes us all you can
37:56
play a drinking. Game with that, it's great and.
38:00
I think there's some. Real hidden gems there as well.
38:02
No one talks about ascension of the side men, and I think that
38:05
is fucking amazingly. Yeah, that is one of the best
38:09
action. Doctor Who, those Cyber heads
38:11
coming in blasting the hell out of everybody.
38:13
Jody is phenomenal in that. But of course, it's all wiped
38:16
away when we hit the flux. The biggest event we've ever
38:19
seen in Doctor Who. Fuck the Daleks master plan.
38:22
Fuck, Trial of a Time Lord. This six part epic.
38:25
We're gonna throw everything in the mix, including John Bishop.
38:28
We're gonna make Doctor Who as visually arresting as it's ever
38:31
been in its life. It was event telly, Fraser, do
38:35
you remember? We were just so excited.
38:36
Every week we were theories about it.
38:39
It was just getting better and better and better.
38:41
And then he knocked it out again.
38:42
Even the Daleks. I think it's an absolute
38:44
classic. Legend of the Sea Devils is an
38:47
interesting episode which I don't think is anywhere near as
38:50
bad as people think it is, and I think it's absolutely.
38:53
Fantastic final scene actually. Well, the scene under the.
38:56
Water as well with the TARDIS. I think it's beautiful too.
38:59
John Bishop dressed as a pirate. Man, however, like that and
39:01
then. It all climaxes in Power of the
39:03
Doctor. It's, and people will say this
39:05
in the comments, it's one of the rare eras where it just gets
39:07
better and better as it goes along.
39:09
And I think that is a kind of uniform opinion with Doctor Who
39:12
fans. Even if you didn't like where it
39:14
started, a lot of people did like where it ended.
39:16
Even our Luke Malloy, who hated this era with a panic.
39:21
Sent me a voice. Note going chip no did good
39:25
after power of the Doctor went out even he was one over in the
39:29
end. It was probably all that ice and
39:31
Tegan love. Who knows yeah I I I just think
39:34
it is a remarkably consistent era quality wise.
39:39
I don't think there's anywhere near the dips that people think
39:41
there are. I think it's spectacular
39:45
looking, but I also think that Chibnall's handling of subtle
39:51
character moments is some of the best drama we've ever seen.
39:54
That scene with Ryan and his dad, everyone whinges about that
39:57
episode. I think that is beautifully
40:00
written and acted, that scene. Yeah.
40:02
So I just. I think it's.
40:04
Yes, someone. Said Chris Chibnall interrupts
40:08
Doctor Who with real life or something like that, which is a
40:11
great quote because that's literally what he does in in
40:13
Resolution. Because, you know, you got that
40:15
propulsive blockbuster of a Dalek episode.
40:19
And then it screeches to a halt for that scene, which is just so
40:23
beautifully acted, but it's like.
40:25
Real life does happen, you know, whilst whilst starting.
40:28
Yes, exactly. You know exactly.
40:30
It doesn't roll upon. I mean, yeah, John Lennon once.
40:33
Said life is what happens when you're busy fighting Dalek
40:36
master plans. Another thing we'll.
40:38
Hear in the comments. Is that a lot of people?
40:39
This is the area they go back to.
40:41
This is the era I go back to the most.
40:43
It's my favorite era of the new series and I don't care who
40:46
knows it. I mean, RTD one I think is
40:50
spectacular. And actually maybe that does
40:53
rival this. See, I'm already arguing with.
40:56
Yes, stay on task. Yeah, no, it's.
40:59
Amazing. It's amazingly good.
41:00
What I would like to ask you what a very quick question
41:02
before we head into the first round of listener comments.
41:06
And that is what episode of this era did not make it on either
41:11
list that you wished had. Let's shake up the order again,
41:17
and I'm going to go to Daniel Knight.
41:21
Which episode? Didn't make the list.
41:23
Oh, there's quite a few actually.
41:25
We could only have one all. Right, we want to go bed
41:27
tonight. It's it's 1:00.
41:31
In the afternoon, but Fraser. Is here.
41:34
Fraser is here, remember. OK.
41:37
One episode I think probably would have been Rosa, I think, I
41:44
think as a a piece of drama, it was yeah.
41:50
I I it's strange how it took so long for Doctor to actually
41:56
approach the subject. And I think it's yeah, you could
42:00
argue that that that is it Crass Crasscos crass, whatever his
42:04
name is. Crassco probably isn't isn't
42:08
entirely necessary to the plot, but I think it's a beautiful
42:15
piece of television. And I would have yeah, that
42:19
would have been. But then I also think team was
42:21
the Punjab is a beautiful piece of television.
42:23
Please excuse the noise of my children running up the stairs.
42:26
Yeah, so. Punjab is on the.
42:29
List. So you're right there, yeah.
42:31
Fraser. Well.
42:34
Not many people know this, but when it was the 60th anniversary
42:37
of Doctor Who, I wrote 60 essays and I picked my 60 top OK, I.
42:44
Heard about that? I know.
42:46
What it is, I know what it is so.
42:49
Interestingly, out of 60, my top 68 stories were from this era
42:57
for were 13 Doctor stories. Funnily enough, that's 13%.
43:02
What are the chances of that? So yeah, again, quite a lot,
43:06
which I think you know. Would have made it I.
43:11
I said in our chapter, now you know, the runners up, the
43:14
winners list is the wrong way around.
43:16
But I think I am just going to agree with Daniel.
43:19
It would be Rosa for me as well. You know, that's that's the
43:22
absolute stand out. I think, you know, diversity
43:26
behind the screen is something that Chris Chibbler also brought
43:30
to Doctor Who, you know, a wider range of of writers, directors,
43:39
that sort of thing. So, you know, getting Malorie
43:41
Blackman, you know, a black lady to write a story about a black
43:45
lady in, in Doctor Who was absolutely the right move.
43:48
Obviously criminal's name is there as well, but it's just
43:51
such a a powerful bit of television.
43:53
You know that that final scene where you know, Graham, you
43:56
know, the man who married, you know, a black woman now has to
44:00
play, you know, the the racist card basically.
44:04
And, and, and sit there to make sure that history, you know,
44:08
carries on is, is just such a powerful, powerful bit of bit of
44:12
television. It it really takes you back to
44:16
again, the beginnings of the show, you know, educate,
44:19
entertain and inform. You know, you learn so much
44:22
about about Rosa Parks and you know that that part in history
44:27
and also her, you know, stance there that she took on that bus.
44:31
You know, if you're not familiar with it already, you'll learn
44:33
all about it. You know, I learn a lot of it
44:37
from from Doctor Who. Equal classical.
44:42
I think this is probably important because it gives it a
44:45
sort of reverse quantum leap. The feel.
44:50
Doesn't it? It's like, you know, instead of
44:52
trying to put right what once went wrong, they're trying to
44:54
put right what once went right and keep, you know, keep things
44:57
on track. So I love that element of it.
44:59
But yeah, it all comes together perfectly to me.
45:02
So rose that as well. Well, I would.
45:04
Also add that the Krasco kind of ties into a larger theme again
45:09
in series 11 of these radicalised young men,
45:13
especially in Demons of the Punjab in Kablam and and, and
45:19
yeah, just so, so I think there was something that Chris Chippel
45:22
was trying to get at in there. And so I think, yeah, he maybe
45:25
wasn't necessary, but I think it, you know, and if you take
45:28
the whole series into account, it kind of works.
45:31
I think he was necessary. I think we had to see that this
45:34
stuff was still there in the future.
45:37
That's the point making. It's not an easy.
45:39
Answer to this thing. We can't make this thing go
45:41
away. There will still be terrible
45:43
racist people in the future. Yep.
45:46
Daniel. Well, it also begins with an R,
45:50
but it's it's resolution. I'm so glad someone shows this
45:55
so this because it's very special, because it's the
45:58
episode that totally won me back where on first viewing where I
46:02
was, I was sort of not quite sure about Doctor Who and I'd
46:06
and I hadn't despised the battle of Ranskuv Kolos, unlike quite a
46:10
few people. I just think, oh, OK.
46:12
And then, and I had heard vaguely that, yes, the Daleks
46:16
are going to come back in the marketing, but I was like, no,
46:18
they're not going to do that, Not on New Year's.
46:20
And, and very clever actually, that he he did this sort of
46:24
Dalek trilogy every New Year's, so setting them slightly apart
46:29
from the rest of the show. Like he's giving you a sort of
46:32
special treat to kick off the new year with, like with a bang,
46:36
especially when a lot of casual viewers might be dipping in.
46:39
So very clever. And yeah, so I have this very
46:42
special memory of watching it with my dad, who dips in and out
46:45
of Doctor Who like my mom did. And he was just the perfect
46:51
audience for that. Because when you first hear
46:53
Nicholas Briggs Dalek voice where you're not quite sure if
46:56
it's a Dalek yet, but he just goes, I am your pilot and.
47:04
And then getting the. Creeping realization that Oh my
47:08
God, I think it's a Dalek. And then we laughed like hyenas
47:12
at the dreadful Wi-Fi family jokes.
47:15
My favorite? Kind of Christian humour and
47:18
especially again, going back to that second, a canola kick ass
47:23
Dalek score with those really aggressive percussions and that
47:26
electric guitar. For once, there's no biblical
47:29
choir with the Daleks. Finally we get a bit of a
47:32
building crescendo. You know, look in your.
47:46
Lace signals mate. You're not fully In Sync yet, so
47:52
that's what you've been doing, reconstructing yourself from
47:55
memory. And remnants.
47:59
And. Spare parts I am rebuilt.
48:06
What do you call this look do? You have cheek.
48:09
Earth is now under the control of the Daleks.
48:12
No, it's not. You couldn't even.
48:14
Control one person. Humanity will.
48:17
Surrender. They really won't.
48:19
Trust me, I've seen them in action.
48:21
They fall off so many things, including the worst of their own
48:25
people. They're really stupid, have you
48:28
not? Worked that out yet?
48:30
Even the Recon. Scout Daleks, the first ones out
48:33
of Scaro Humanity bands together, vanquishes you and
48:36
buries you for centuries. Yet I.
48:39
Survived. Yeah, you could do that.
48:44
It won't be enough. If this planet is annexed, the
48:49
fleet will be summoned. You don't have the ability.
48:52
You don't have the strength you. Are weak.
48:56
Humanity is weak. Except I'm not human.
49:02
Have a scan. Who are you identified?
49:12
I may. I'm the Doctor.
49:15
Ring any bells? Yes.
49:30
I am. You want this planet, you have
49:33
to come through me. So why don't you make it easy on
49:35
yourself and leave now? Conquest has already started.
49:40
I have all the. Information I need or
49:42
information humanity? Will surrender Dalek invasion
49:47
fleet will be summoned total. Conquest of Earth predicted.
49:51
In 93. 76. Mails.
50:08
Must remember how Long's a row. And I listen to it all the time.
50:12
And especially because it leads to that absolutely fantastic
50:16
climax at the end where what I call the second climax, I've
50:19
talked about this before, where you think it's over and Oh my
50:23
God, no, it's not. And then suddenly he goes crazy
50:25
at the end and you Ling the Dalek muting off into the
50:27
supernova and Ryan saves his dad and oh, it's just, it's just
50:31
epic. It goes crazy at the end.
50:33
So that would be my vote, yeah, always.
50:35
Great when you. Have a second climax, isn't it?
50:38
I Thought You Didn't Know was coming from one Dalek New Year
50:43
special to another then, because I fought valiantly for Eva, the
50:47
Daleks, which I think is as perfect a script as Chris
50:50
Chipnall ever wrote. And I think he's really thinking
50:54
about the kids there because that's like a puzzle box
50:58
computer game style episode. There's an episode with rules
51:02
that you have to figure out as you go along.
51:04
But it's also fucking funny as hell.
51:07
What happened after the Flux? I swear, John Bishops looking at
51:10
those scripts, it's so funny. What's the name of that Irish
51:13
actress? Ashley B.
51:16
Oh my God, I mean it's one of the best terms.
51:19
What like 1 episode turns? She was so funny in that episode
51:23
and it dealt with it. Brought to lie the Yas and Dr.
51:27
romance which I know meant so much to everybody.
51:30
Have you ever told her? Told her what how you feel
51:36
about. Her, I don't know.
51:41
What you mean? Yeah, you do.
51:54
Is it that obvious? Well, maybe not to a good.
51:57
Hearted way, though. I spent 4.
52:00
Years travelling the world with you.
52:02
I saw it, then didn't. Half came looking at that
52:06
hologram. I didn't.
52:09
I mean, it was just that she's just.
52:19
I don't want to do Dan. I've never told anyone, not even
52:25
myself. Just tell her it's not that
52:30
easy. Look, I took.
52:33
Way too long to tell somebody that I liked them and then the
52:37
universe ended and everything got messy.
52:41
I wouldn't want that to happen to you, Sheffield.
52:47
I'm really. Sensitively done as well, and it
52:50
gave us the most amazing Dalek weaponry I'd ever seen.
52:53
Those fucking machine gun things that go around.
52:57
Shooting all the bolts. I just think that's a terrific
53:00
episode, but unfortunately Rod was fighting against me so I
53:04
didn't have a hope. I'm afraid but I.
53:07
Couldn't get off from 50. Five through either.
53:09
So yeah, we all bloom. Rod for this list.
53:11
That's right. Well, I mean it.
53:13
Also has probably the greatest Dalek line ever, which is Daleks
53:16
do not have managers. Not called Nick when you know,
53:24
only Nicks play and get inside Daleks.
53:28
Just a brilliant episode. Yeah, well look fellas, shall we
53:32
go to the first round of listener comments?
53:35
We will kick start off with Eric Briggs.
53:37
Who says season? 12 is better than season 11
53:41
actually very good but it got memory hold pretty quick.
53:44
I remember where I was for Judoon and dear Dante on the
53:47
road the last couple of times pre COVID so it was event TV for
53:51
me. Thanks Jodie into terror.
53:54
Well done. Paul Arthur.
53:57
I love love love the 13th Doctor and her era.
54:01
Jodie is just fantastic. She's the pandemic Dr. When the
54:05
kids of the world face the fear and uncertainty of lockdown, she
54:08
was there for them. And that's just magic.
54:11
And you know what? I love Chips as showrunner.
54:13
It's an era of new voices, new perspectives, and bonkers
54:17
barnstorming ideas. I don't care what you think, the
54:20
concept of the Timeless Child is cool.
54:23
He's so succinct. He.
54:24
Just covered everything we just said there in the last 14
54:26
minutes, didn't he? Yes, Paul.
54:30
KA Quinn, That lockdown video was indeed magical.
54:35
He's been listening. Like many parts of Doctor Who, I
54:38
found a rewatch of the 13th Doctor's era more enjoyable than
54:42
the first time around. I love her running around energy
54:44
and awkwardness and the way that we know things that she is lying
54:47
about or not mentioning to her companions.
54:52
Next up is. Andrew Blair, who says in the
54:54
end it wasn't for me, but it tried some different things,
54:57
some of which worked pretty well.
54:59
Now that's quite. Sort of diplomatic for somebody
55:01
that doesn't like it. We'll have some slightly less
55:04
diplomatic comments later in the episode.
55:06
Oh, and we'll mock those. Don't worry.
55:09
Yeah, David Gillespie. Pratt says.
55:11
I have struggled with this era in the past, but thanks to
55:14
Strictly, Oh my God, we've done good workshops.
55:17
I have watched it again with fresh eyes.
55:20
Flux has gone up in my estimation.
55:21
As for Jodie as the Doctor, how lovely it was to have an actor
55:25
who wanted to be there. I loved every second of playing
55:28
the part well. I wonder what he could be
55:30
talking about. Luke Sims Jenkins Sorry I've got
55:34
a bit of a cough here. How's this for short and sweet?
55:37
I love every second of this. If I wasn't doing Davo, Power of
55:42
the Power of the Doctor or We Riot.
55:46
The most important? Man in the hall of creation,
55:50
Gareth Boli. Doctor Who finally arrives
55:53
where? Near where I live.
55:54
How exciting. The pomp around the series
55:57
seemed lacking, lack of books, even TARDIS Diaries never
56:01
completed its tale. But following initial viewing,
56:04
this is the one era of New Who I enjoy revisiting and do
56:07
frequently and that is a big plus.
56:10
Special mention to the fantastic music of Sega Nakanola 2.
56:15
Yes, Gareth. And he's.
56:19
With Matty, Matty says. We watching it a few years later
56:22
in full was a game changer for me.
56:24
It's beautiful inside and out. That's gorgeous.
56:28
Isn't it? That's a great tag.
56:29
Like beautiful inside and out, you know, just like Space for
56:34
All was a lovely tag. Unlike.
56:38
Doctor Who is gay, which is a terrible 10.
56:40
Sorry. OK, let's.
56:42
Go through to the. First round then, so I will list
56:46
the runners up that didn't make it but have a chance to make it
56:50
into the finale. Here we have It Takes You Away,
56:54
The Haunting of Villa di Adarti, the Halloween Apocalypse and
56:59
Power of the Doctor. As Fraser says, the list is
57:02
topsy turvy. And as soon as that is the case,
57:05
Fraser, why don't you make your case first?
57:08
Oh, thank you very. Much, yes.
57:10
So out of those four stories that you've just mentioned, four
57:15
of them make my top 60 list. Great.
57:20
Out out of the. Four out of the three, three
57:22
that's, you know, the actual finalists wonders, and that's
57:26
technically achieved because it's the same one as one of the
57:29
ones that makes it here because that is Flux.
57:31
So where to start with this then?
57:35
They're all bangers. They're all absolutely fantastic
57:37
episodes. They've all got so much to
57:38
recommend about them there. Is one that stands.
57:42
Out a little bit higher than the rest though, which which is
57:47
power of the Doctor, because as I said before, I do think this
57:50
is just perfect end to this era. I think it's an absolutely
57:54
fantastic regeneration story, especially for Jodie.
57:58
I think by the time you get to the end, by the time she said
58:00
our final scenes with Yas, by the time she's stood on Doodle
58:04
door taken in the sun, we talked, didn't we said sunny and
58:07
she's taken in that sunrise, the blossomiest blossom tag your
58:12
writ. That is just such a perfect,
58:14
perfect way for her to go out. You could not ask for anything
58:18
better than that. I also think it's the best 60th
58:21
anniversary story that we've never had as well.
58:24
You know, I can kind of say Rusty, watching that go out and
58:27
just thinking, well, that's my bin now, isn't it?
58:31
I'm not going to do anything better than that because, you
58:34
know, it doesn't just, you know, sum up the the current doctor,
58:38
the 13th doctor, but it goes back and gives us the 5th doctor
58:41
and the 7th doctor and gives them moments with their two
58:45
companions to say goodbye to them as well as, you know,
58:48
goodbye with with yes, it's all about goodbyes.
58:51
You know, seeing bite the down at the start as well.
58:53
You know, you have Colin Baker back in enroll Paul McGann back
58:58
in Rule. It's just David Bradley is there
59:01
as well. You know, it's just unbelievably
59:04
unbelievable. You're obviously one of the more
59:09
determined of us. I'm sorry.
59:13
You refuse to. Pass through.
59:16
Quite the. Strength of character, this
59:19
incarnation. The question is, what are we
59:25
going to do about it? Do about what?
59:28
Our predicament. This is supposed to be handed
59:31
over, you can't ruin it for the next one.
59:35
And you were doing. So well.
59:38
Where am I exactly? Because the last thing I
59:40
remember is being forced to regenerate.
59:42
That's why we're. Here to stop you moving any
59:45
further through you are not finished we.
59:50
Are not finished, we being. Vestiges of your.
59:53
Consciousness fragments of yourself from the past.
59:58
Guardians of the Year. Sorry.
1:00:00
Why not? Wearing.
1:00:03
I don't do ropes. There's always. 1.
1:00:05
Has to be different. I am a manifestation.
1:00:08
Of our consciousness, I can wear what I like.
1:00:10
Can we just focus on this? Whatever this is.
1:00:13
Summation of of the power of the Doctor and what it means to
1:00:18
those characters, what it means to us as the viewers.
1:00:20
It's the fans. It's the people who give up
1:00:21
their Saturday afternoons and Monday evenings and everything
1:00:24
to talk about this stuff. So it is.
1:00:26
It's just brilliant. It is absolutely brilliant,
1:00:28
right, Sir? Do you remember we?
1:00:29
Did the commentary on that, and we were talking about all the
1:00:31
kisses to the past that are sort of ticked off.
1:00:34
There were one era of Doctor Who that we didn't mention.
1:00:37
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
1:00:39
It's absolutely brilliant. But of course this is.
1:00:42
Strictly, I knew it strictly as the show where the big hit has
1:00:49
come to die and the the underdogs get their chance the
1:00:56
the ones that no one else is is ever going to consider.
1:00:59
So my vote is going for it takes you away.
1:01:05
Which? Is just absolutely brilliant.
1:01:08
Now Joe, you said you know this run was it from Sir Angra
1:01:12
through to it takes you away is the most varied that the show
1:01:17
has ever given us. I would argue, you know, go back
1:01:19
and look at season 2, the rescue, the Romans, the web
1:01:23
planet. I actually did say.
1:01:25
That recently in the Speaking of that, the space.
1:01:28
Museum I think that stands put out with this since then.
1:01:32
Then it's. It is very of.
1:01:36
That era, this. Is this is the vibe that Chiplin
1:01:39
was going for? I think with series 11 was, you
1:01:42
know, go back to the basics of the Hartnell era.
1:01:46
So you have the the three companions, you know, the four
1:01:51
piece TARDIS team, you have educate, inform, entertain, and
1:01:55
you also get a little bit of batshit in there or sorry, a
1:02:00
little bit of flesh moth shit in there.
1:02:03
This it's just so engaging and brilliant from start to finish.
1:02:08
You know, you start off in the Welsh mountains pretending to be
1:02:11
Norway. You know, Scandi noir was was
1:02:14
very of the time there. So this was a brilliant place to
1:02:17
start off. And you have this sort of homage
1:02:20
to MH Sham Islands film the village where you've got the
1:02:24
blind girl who can't see that the monsters aren't real.
1:02:26
And, you know, you then move through the mirror and so you're
1:02:31
into a bit more traditional Doctor Who space of this
1:02:35
interspire nether sphere or in between world where the actor
1:02:40
Kevin Eldon lives. You know, beautiful turn,
1:02:45
beautiful bit of makeup, really good performance there.
1:02:47
And then you work your way through out to the other side of
1:02:50
the mirror where it then becomes this sort of treaties on grief,
1:02:56
as it were. You know, you have Eric's wife.
1:02:59
You have. Grace coming back.
1:03:04
You know, and you have and you have Graham having to deal with
1:03:07
that and you know Ryan having to deal with that as well.
1:03:11
I still think this would have been a better two parter.
1:03:13
I think you can flesh out the the Scandi Noir bit a bit.
1:03:18
You can have a bit more time in the industry and then that bit
1:03:22
where Graham walks past the washing and spots Grace there,
1:03:25
that is an absolute humdinger of a cliffhanger if you make it so.
1:03:28
And then you have the second part and you really go to town
1:03:31
on on this grief angle. So you get all of this and then
1:03:35
it ends up with the doctor talking to a talking frog and
1:03:39
blowing a kiss. A talking frog.
1:03:42
I mean, it's crazy. It's.
1:03:47
Deep it's. Scary in parts it's funny in
1:03:51
parts it's. Heart warming in parts.
1:03:54
You know, you go back on the mountains and there's, you know,
1:03:57
Graham and, yeah, Graham and Ryan having the moment together
1:04:00
where he first has that real bond with him, starts calling
1:04:03
him granddad, You know, it's. It's everything.
1:04:07
You want from Doctor Who? It's everything I want from
1:04:09
Doctor Who with that just little twist of craziness thrown in to
1:04:16
spice it up a bit. So that's the one I'm going to
1:04:19
for tonight lads. I still think it should.
1:04:22
Have been the finale. I think that would have been a
1:04:24
braver finale of the season. I think you could have easily
1:04:27
have had Grand Scarf Carlos as their penultimate episode and
1:04:30
then you have him saying Granddad at the end of the
1:04:33
season and that's the payoff at the end of the year, I do think.
1:04:37
It works better than when Rand scarf call us where you know he
1:04:39
has to then you know it it. It's like Graham's earned the
1:04:46
granddad in it takes away, but the payoff is in ranskwords weds
1:04:51
Ryan that kind of talks him around to like you say he saves
1:04:55
his soul. Essentially he stops him from
1:04:57
killing Tim Shaw. You know that bond is
1:04:59
established in the previous episode, but it pays off in the
1:05:02
next one. I think that works better for
1:05:04
me. Don't worry, Fraser.
1:05:06
Because in your alternative universe where you've created a
1:05:09
two-part, it takes you away. The Battle of Ransgrove Carlos
1:05:12
don't exist no more so. The 12 part series.
1:05:16
Oh boy, God. Let's see now, the Daniels.
1:05:19
The Daniels. Daniel.
1:05:23
Rosley. It takes you.
1:05:26
Away as well because. It takes you everywhere.
1:05:29
It's, you know, it's the atmospheric Scandinavia noir
1:05:32
with the young girl boarded up in the creepy cabin in the
1:05:35
woods, that sickly bright light that you see in all those sort
1:05:38
of Nordic noirs with the severe angles, the mirror with no
1:05:41
reflection. And then those smoky anti zone
1:05:45
caves that look like they've been updated from season 15 or
1:05:48
something. And then kill what Kevin Eldon
1:05:51
is ribbons and what basically everything that Fraser's just
1:05:53
said, and you'll come on do. One quote from Ribbons.
1:06:00
I can't remember any, sorry, but I'll give you, I'll give you a
1:06:05
quote from from Jodie Whittaker because she says I've lived
1:06:10
longer, seen more, loved more, and lost more, and that that
1:06:14
quote is just the Doctor, no Doctor.
1:06:17
Moments in series 11, apparently, yeah.
1:06:19
Exactly. So that's the thing.
1:06:21
She's absolutely commanding in this episode.
1:06:24
So, so many different sides of her.
1:06:26
You know, you start off with all that clowning around at the
1:06:29
start where she's tasting the soil and going on about the
1:06:32
woolly rebellion with sheep. And, and it's, it's kind of,
1:06:35
it's kind of what I thought originally was really this kind
1:06:38
of dreadful case of overwriting the Doctor.
1:06:42
Like all the doctor's quirky, the doctor's witty.
1:06:44
Let's have a talk about low TripAdvisor ratings.
1:06:46
But The thing is, this episode takes you on such a journey
1:06:50
through so many layers, so many ideas that by the time you
1:06:53
circle wrap back round to that joke and she's like, oh, I see
1:06:56
the sheep have moved on, probably plotting.
1:06:59
You're like, oh, thank God, thank God, because it's this
1:07:02
massive sort of comedy release valve that Ed Heim frames around
1:07:07
the story. So because it's kind of a bit
1:07:09
like life, it's like not just Doctor Who, you, you go through
1:07:12
some really intense stuff, maybe confront some truths about
1:07:15
yourself, and then you kind of shrug it all off with a joke at
1:07:18
the end just to sort of, you know, to, to bring bring the
1:07:22
tension down a bit. But beyond that, I mean, Jodie,
1:07:25
she's she's funny, she's curious, she's brave, she's in
1:07:29
charge, she's assertive, She's very, very forgiving at the end
1:07:32
as well. She waves around that Sonic
1:07:34
screwdriver better than than Matt Smith could at this point,
1:07:38
which is why they put all the bits in the trailers where she's
1:07:40
just like literally just pointing it at the screen.
1:07:44
That bit where she points the Sonic at Ribbons when he holds
1:07:48
Graham at knifepoint. I mean, Knives back in Doctor
1:07:50
Who, which is just crazy. And then that whole stretch at
1:07:54
the climax where suddenly there's this kind of Bruce
1:07:57
acceleration and she's sort of bugging her eyes out.
1:07:59
And, and Yas basically becomes her audience of one as she sort
1:08:03
of relentlessly pushes, pushes, pushes for the truth.
1:08:06
And it all culminates, yeah, in that line that I just said.
1:08:09
And then, I mean, she's just is the doctor in that in, in that
1:08:12
story, isn't she? It's it's just and, and
1:08:16
everything that that Fraser said with, with Graham's scene with
1:08:20
Grace, which is just has this beautiful mini exploration of
1:08:24
their relationship, which we only saw very briefly at the at
1:08:28
the start of the series. And I love how it all pairs off
1:08:32
all the regulars together in different ways.
1:08:34
So we get Ryan and Yaz going off to the shed and Ryan getting
1:08:37
freaked out by the dead birds. And then we get Graham and his
1:08:40
emergency sandwiches, which is such a great touch, right.
1:08:45
We get Ryan and Hannah, who is a total brat.
1:08:49
Oh I love. Her.
1:08:50
That's what kids are really like.
1:08:52
Not those muffin frogs. Yeah, supremely unimpressed by
1:08:57
by him because he's rubbish with kids like me and and knocks him
1:09:02
out of the door. And then she gets to tell her
1:09:04
dad at the end. You know, you're not well.
1:09:07
And if that isn't clear enough for you about this whole sort of
1:09:09
meditation on grief and and loss, they put Eric in this sort
1:09:13
of Slayer T-shirt, which, like all the scenes in the Mirror
1:09:17
universe, has been inverted backwards in post production.
1:09:21
So he's got this sort of very grungy, infantilized teenage
1:09:25
look about him, like someone who's sort of retreating inside
1:09:28
themselves and clinging on to what made them happy.
1:09:31
And, and so yeah, I just, I think it's weird.
1:09:35
It's strange. It leaves you wanting more,
1:09:37
which is what you want in a in a Doctor Who episode in my book.
1:09:41
And it's just goes to some completely surreal places.
1:09:46
And when it's over you, you really feel like you've been
1:09:48
somewhere. So that one amazing.
1:09:52
Tubular, please, it's. Just.
1:09:55
Great Well Daniel, 2 votes for it takes you away.
1:10:01
Oh no. Well, I.
1:10:02
Yeah, I mean, I can't say any more about it takes you away,
1:10:05
but that's not going to be my choice.
1:10:07
I'm going to be, I'm afraid, going to be boringly predictable
1:10:10
and go for the power of the Doctor simply because I don't
1:10:15
think I've ever had such a an emotional experience watching
1:10:19
Doctor Who. This is the five Doctors for the
1:10:24
modern generation. This is This is.
1:10:28
This is throw as. Much Doctor Who as you can at
1:10:30
the screen this is more of a celebration of Doctor Who than
1:10:33
Day of the Doctor was, and I think day of the Doctor's great,
1:10:36
don't get me wrong, but it felt very much as though it was just
1:10:39
a celebration of. How seven years?
1:10:42
Of Doctor Who, whereas this feels full on.
1:10:44
We are loving every aspect of Doctor Who and I think there's
1:10:48
only one. I think it's only the second.
1:10:52
Doctor in the 4th Doctor that doesn't have any characters
1:10:54
unless you count the Daleks on the side, men that sort of
1:10:56
covered. Yeah, I absolutely loved it.
1:11:02
I I I thought. How's this going to?
1:11:07
How's this going to pan out and and?
1:11:10
Every. Every.
1:11:11
Moment was just another another time of of tears of joy.
1:11:18
I love the fact that they brought back Tegan and Ace.
1:11:22
Ace I imagine was kind of a no brainer.
1:11:25
And I know there was an interview with Sophie Aldred
1:11:27
saying that if Elizabeth Slayton has hadn't passed away so sadly
1:11:32
when she did, the idea was that maybe they were going to bring
1:11:35
Ace back in another series of Sarah Jane adventures.
1:11:39
Tegan on the other hand, completely lauded me.
1:11:42
I know and I know you're not her biggest fan.
1:11:45
No, but it was. Just blissful.
1:11:48
I would like to go into the TARDIS.
1:11:50
Oh my God. Think I handled.
1:11:52
That quite well. Every.
1:11:58
Opportunity for Janet Fielding to be hilarious because we know
1:12:02
from and I, I, I love the fact that she's made her peace with
1:12:06
the show because I was there back in 1993 at the Pernopticon
1:12:11
where she basically said that Doctor Who was shouldn't come
1:12:15
back. It was kind of like a museum
1:12:17
piece. It was sexist.
1:12:19
Why would you have somebody climbing rocks in, in 6 inch
1:12:23
heels in a tight, you know, a stewardess skirt?
1:12:27
Excuse me? I've just been to Harrison's
1:12:30
Rocks last week. I know, and I was wearing a
1:12:33
skirt and high heels. So you tell her to shut up.
1:12:37
But there were people. Telling her to shut up.
1:12:38
There were people who and I kind of could sort of see from both
1:12:42
sides of the story. And she sort of seemed to, you
1:12:45
know, when Big Finish started, she wasn't, she'd shunned that.
1:12:48
And so it was as a as a long term fan who, going even further
1:12:54
back, remembers she was the first person I ever met from
1:12:56
Doctor Who. And being absolutely.
1:12:59
Lovely when I met her when I was 10.
1:13:01
It was just so lovely to see her back in the show as Tegan and
1:13:06
she's, you know, like like that air stewardess con costume.
1:13:10
She's never left that that jacket.
1:13:12
Now every time you see her, she's wearing that flipping
1:13:14
jacket. Destination Daleks, the thing,
1:13:18
it's just glorious. I mean, it is.
1:13:23
Like the Five? Doctors, it is a plot that sort
1:13:26
of doesn't just stretch credulity.
1:13:29
It like a piece of elastic going gone.
1:13:32
You dare, dare you to to to to, you know, look into this really
1:13:37
deeply and and not find holes in it.
1:13:38
And I don't care because it's it's just a simple celebration.
1:13:42
And sometimes that's all you want from Doctor Who.
1:13:46
And I also think it's a 2 fingers up to those fans who had
1:13:51
sort of basically spent the whole of the Jodi era been
1:13:55
moaning and saying not my doctor, not my doctor.
1:13:57
Well, there you go. Here are some other doctors who
1:13:59
are your doctor. And as you say, it was lovely to
1:14:02
see the 5th Doctor with Tegan having that moment of suppose it
1:14:07
would be, you would class it as a moment of charm, wouldn't you,
1:14:10
to have that moment with together.
1:14:13
And also giving a little bit of closure to the 7th Doctor in
1:14:16
Ace, because we didn't get that back in, in 1989.
1:14:19
It was left with them just wandering off into the into the
1:14:22
sunset to find that, you know, cities full of smoke and rivers.
1:14:26
Just beautiful, that speech there.
1:14:30
So, yeah, I, I, I would, it isn't the best Jodie story, but
1:14:34
it is my favorite. And I think really it should, it
1:14:37
should be the runners up. And I know probably it takes you
1:14:40
away, which is brilliant. I'm not so sure about the frog.
1:14:43
I've learned to to, to understand the frog rather than
1:14:47
love it. But I mean, I yeah, Halloween
1:14:51
apocalypse is brilliant. And I've always, it was strikes
1:14:55
me as being a bit like we've seen Unforgotten, the the police
1:14:59
drama about, you know, unsolved crimes from years ago with
1:15:03
Sanjeev Bhaskar. Felt very much like the first
1:15:06
episode of that where you have all these disparate characters
1:15:10
and how and you're left after the first episode of thinking,
1:15:13
how is this all going to blend together?
1:15:17
So yeah, I but yeah, I'm sorry. It's got to be Power of the
1:15:20
Doctor for me. I was speaking, Speaking of
1:15:24
Tegan, there's a great, there's a, there's a, there's that
1:15:27
moment where she falls down the lift shaft, right?
1:15:29
And then she reappears and she's completely fine.
1:15:31
And people picked her up on that.
1:15:32
And then someone actually asked Janet Fielding on social media,
1:15:35
So how does Tegan fall down the lift shaft and survive?
1:15:38
And Janet Fielding just responded.
1:15:41
She bounces. Very.
1:15:45
Well, yeah? She asked.
1:15:47
Someone asked her that at the event.
1:15:48
I was Is she exactly the same? Australians bounce.
1:15:51
What you said about. The Halloween apocalypse there,
1:15:54
I felt that. And then that cliffhanger here
1:15:57
and you had every single character that he had been
1:16:00
following throughout that. Oh, and you were like, Oh my
1:16:02
God, he's not lost track of anyone.
1:16:04
This whole thing is going to come together.
1:16:06
It was such a great episode, but I don't want to choose that 10
1:16:09
God, I love power and the Doctor so much.
1:16:12
Jesus Christ. I mean, especially for the fact
1:16:15
that as she exits Doctor Who, Sophie Aldridge's line reading
1:16:20
of Are You Right? It's just so spectacularly
1:16:25
awful. I mean, she's one of the best
1:16:28
things in it, don't get me wrong.
1:16:29
That sequence where she dives into the bloody TARDIS, is that
1:16:33
the the most impressive visual we've ever had in Doctor Who,
1:16:37
which goes into a physical stump.
1:16:39
I mean, amazing. It's stuff full of everything
1:16:42
you look that makes this era great, right?
1:16:43
It's full of energy, great gags. It's got surprises.
1:16:47
It's got Doctor Who, old Doctor Who, monsters at their best, a
1:16:51
brilliant master. The Doctors are always doing
1:16:53
something interesting. Loads of set pieces, beautiful
1:16:57
visuals, outstanding music, pace, kisses to the past.
1:17:01
I mean it's just everything. I love how the Doctor, when you
1:17:04
say goodbye, it's so the scene where they're sitting on the
1:17:08
TARDIS having the ice creams, it's such a beautiful, beautiful
1:17:11
moment where she just gets to say out loud how our hearts are
1:17:15
full of love for the people. Like that's, that's how we feel
1:17:18
right about the people that we've connected with with Doctor
1:17:21
Who. It's just such a lovely
1:17:22
statement. You know what this means, right?
1:17:34
It's all right. It's all right, one last trip.
1:17:45
Where would you chew muffler ice cream?
1:18:09
How many times do you think you've saved Earth?
1:18:13
I've lost count, but look at it. How?
1:18:18
Could you not love a? Planet like that?
1:18:24
I don't want it to end, a wise person once said to me.
1:18:39
The bodies only hurt because what came before.
1:18:42
Was so special and. It's been so special, you and
1:18:50
Graham and Ryan. And.
1:18:53
Dan, nobody else got to be. Us nobody else got to.
1:19:00
Live our days. Nobody and my heart.
1:19:08
They're so full of love of all of you.
1:19:10
Oh, I. Have loved being with.
1:19:18
You Yas. And I have loved being me.
1:19:26
Oh. I like how she saves the day as
1:19:29
well by using that moon to create our out of the volcanoes.
1:19:35
I just think that's an extraordinary climax.
1:19:38
But I also love as well how she goes out being really kind by
1:19:41
letting that creature go at the end, because she's the kindest
1:19:44
Dr. we've had. Of course she has to go out
1:19:46
being kind. I fucking love Tegan in this as
1:19:50
well. Jesus Christ, the whole speech.
1:19:53
That terrible chipmunk speech that she gets about all of her
1:19:56
ex husbands. And I was an air stewardess in
1:19:59
the 1980s. Thirty eight years.
1:20:03
It's almost so. Bad.
1:20:04
It's good. Obviously the Doctor's on the
1:20:06
edge. The companion me out.
1:20:07
William Russell, William Russell, come on.
1:20:10
And and I really only did have an an argument for the power of
1:20:15
the Doctor. However, Fraser and Daniel have
1:20:20
actually convinced me to go with It Takes You Away because I
1:20:23
think the power Doctor is a too easy choice to kick through into
1:20:29
the 2nd. And I think It Takes You Away is
1:20:31
a more distinctive episode of this era for all of the reasons
1:20:37
that you said. I mean, the thing I always take
1:20:39
away from it is it's so disquieting.
1:20:41
Doctor Who rarely gets under my skin.
1:20:44
But that horror in the first third is really creepy.
1:20:47
It's so well filmed. It could be one of those Nordic
1:20:50
films that you were telling him, telling me about.
1:20:52
The production value is incredible.
1:20:54
The sounds of the monsters are so creepy.
1:20:57
And then all of those sequences in the Interzone, I know they
1:21:00
got rid of that big long sort of, you know, puckered asshole
1:21:03
monster. But the flesh moths, man, they
1:21:07
scrap. They scare the life out of me.
1:21:08
And I don't like Milfs anyway. But when they come along and
1:21:11
start eating them out and popping out of his eyes, very,
1:21:13
very creepy. And then just how that's all
1:21:16
filmed in that last third with everything sort of back to front
1:21:20
in that sort of weird sunlight. The whole thing just puts me on
1:21:23
edge of the episode. Yeah.
1:21:26
And the Doctor blows a kiss to a frog on the chair that turns out
1:21:30
to be a sentient universe. Don't fucking tell me if you
1:21:32
don't get Doctor Ishmael. That's in series 11.
1:21:35
She's already had 100. She's had 100 in Bloody The
1:21:38
Woman Who Fell to Earth. But I I think it takes You away
1:21:41
as incredible. It's astonishing how Ed Himes
1:21:43
reputation went from up there to down there.
1:21:47
But yeah, it takes you away. It's going through to Round 2.
1:21:54
The power of the Doctor is. Fantastic.
1:21:55
It is OK. Well, should.
1:21:58
We go back to the second round of listener comments to see what
1:22:01
these Wally heads think about the era.
1:22:04
John Arnold says it's the era that looks to stretch away from
1:22:07
RTD's 2005 vision of who, and that's what makes it so
1:22:11
fascinating. After a rocky first half season
1:22:15
or so, it settles down beautifully.
1:22:17
Jodie and Mandit give the era the proper heart it needs, and
1:22:21
Dylan's absolutely right about Praxis 2 Banger.
1:22:26
Bom telo oh. Here we go, making the character
1:22:29
kind of bland and insipid, just reacting to everyone else made
1:22:33
that seemed kind of kind of pathetic.
1:22:36
I don't think he served the character or the actress very
1:22:38
well. Imagine a cooler, darker, more
1:22:41
eccentric character doing more interesting things.
1:22:44
Now that it's just another chapter in the new in the show's
1:22:46
history and not the incumbent version of the show, I feel less
1:22:50
strongly about it. It's become just another era in
1:22:52
the show's history, albeit one I never particularly warmed to.
1:22:56
I don't look back on it with any great fondness.
1:22:59
It was just kind of meh. Well, that'll be a cooler.
1:23:04
Dock I'm more eccentric, not eccentric.
1:23:06
It's. You.
1:23:08
You just. Want Matt Smith back?
1:23:09
Really. Sure.
1:23:12
He wrote me a review. You know, Tom Turlo on Hansel
1:23:15
Blood pen knife saying that I deleted him off social media for
1:23:18
some reason. That was actually in his review
1:23:20
of the podcast. That's probably why I've been
1:23:23
listening to that. The very succinct.
1:23:27
Kieran Powell, it's all right. Thank.
1:23:31
You Kieran, Steph, Destroyer of Worlds says.
1:23:40
A female Doctor forged in Sheffield and hanging around
1:23:42
trig points felt like a gift to me.
1:23:45
Beautiful photography, beautiful music, both to the last.
1:23:48
Far from beautiful writing. Geordie plays at 2 Tennant
1:23:51
extra, then rarely gets to dig deep.
1:23:53
Tennant extra? Oh, she's not that pissed.
1:23:56
The idea is bored. Feels like it gets lost in
1:23:58
translation to the screen. Paul.
1:24:02
Cresser says. I won't lie, I was underwhelmed
1:24:05
at the time. The story seems so slight and
1:24:07
lacking an instance to start with.
1:24:08
People becoming overly convoluted with flux and I
1:24:12
didn't think the Tennant Smith star was right for the first
1:24:14
female Doctor. I think she's anything like
1:24:17
Tennant or Smith. I was hoping for a bit more of a
1:24:20
Ramana 2 vibe watch season. 17 Then go and watch that.
1:24:25
But it has all grown on me since.
1:24:27
Let's see, here we go. And she, when she reappeared in
1:24:29
the reality War, I realised just how much I'd missed her.
1:24:32
In the few years since she's gone, I think we could probably
1:24:36
call them. Not my doctor.
1:24:37
Brigade. The sort of kind of my doctor.
1:24:40
Now we've seen worse Brigade, Yeah.
1:24:45
The future for everyone. A vibrant Dr. With a hint of
1:24:49
tenant but more range. People who know how to.
1:24:54
Write and score Daleks inside meant too true companions as
1:24:58
people you'd like to know, not plot devices.
1:25:01
Yeah, thanks, Clara. Visually sumptuous historicals
1:25:05
true surprises. A TARDIS for all 13 episode
1:25:08
series here would not would not be wasted here.
1:25:11
I, I think, love it. That man is doing a.
1:25:14
Commentary. It's very first one on a Jodie
1:25:17
story tomorrow. I can't wait.
1:25:19
I can't wait big well. Son of Big Well, I believe I
1:25:24
have gone from childish love to scorn back to faultless praise,
1:25:29
and now I sit somewhere comfortably in the middle.
1:25:32
So much of this era is tainted by toxic discourse that often
1:25:35
fans aren't willing to give it a chance over the it's over it's
1:25:39
perceived reputation, and I think that is a real shame.
1:25:42
The writers room, the non on Cardiff location, new composer,
1:25:45
new directors all bring this era a distinct freshness that as a
1:25:49
nine year old I didn't notice since I didn't watch the show.
1:25:52
That engaged me on their own merits.
1:25:55
And of course, Whittaker's Dr. is very, very underrated and
1:25:58
kept kid me hooked. Big Well was 9.
1:26:04
When this went out, oh gosh. It's.
1:26:07
Teeth in and back. Out.
1:26:09
Too long. Bryce.
1:26:13
Emma, Jennifer, Jodie is fucking brilliant.
1:26:16
I love her. She gave her all.
1:26:18
She kept me watching when I wasn't engaged with the story.
1:26:21
Bradley Walsh was a revelation. Who thought he'd have such
1:26:24
range? Chris Chibbill.
1:26:25
Obviously. Demons of the Punjab made me
1:26:27
cry. The way I dimensioned spy fall
1:26:30
was tremendous. I Canola's subtle ambience was a
1:26:33
refreshing treat after Murray Gold.
1:26:35
A brick in the faces. Too subtle.
1:26:36
Yeah, well, the emotions. You should be feeling idiots
1:26:38
bullshit. Overall.
1:26:40
Though. I think Chibs does gritty adult
1:26:42
drama pretty well, but I don't think he's a kids slash family
1:26:45
writer and I think that's where it fell apart.
1:26:47
It like gusto and confidence. I didn't fully believe in his
1:26:51
vision even though on paper I quite liked it.
1:26:54
I just don't think he's that good at Doctor Who.
1:26:57
Is that positive? Or no, I think.
1:26:59
I think. That's a measured comment, isn't
1:27:02
it? That's that's good and.
1:27:04
Bad and I. Think you know, you're allowed
1:27:06
to not like things, but to give her an intelligent reasoning is
1:27:11
why bravo. And it's not a name I recognize.
1:27:14
So hello, welcome, yes. Wow.
1:27:17
Fellas, now we are in the tricky period now where we have to
1:27:22
summarize our thoughts on Jodie herself, Jodie and the 13th
1:27:26
Doctor. And let's shake up the order
1:27:30
again and go to Daniel K. Finally a doctor I.
1:27:37
Can fancy I I never, I hadn't watched broad.
1:27:46
I was getting, said broad Chorch, Broad, Broad, Broad
1:27:48
Church, not Broad Chalk. I'd never seen it.
1:27:51
So I hadn't really any preconceptions about what she
1:27:56
was like. I thought, yeah, as I said, the
1:28:00
the reveal, when I saw it was done really, really well.
1:28:03
So I went in with a fresh pair of eyes and I was quite
1:28:07
surprised how quickly she she won me over.
1:28:12
I didn't. I've had some seen some comments
1:28:15
about it being a bit super lardish, but I don't get that at
1:28:18
all other than the fact that she's got a northern accent.
1:28:22
But there's just the fun and the warmth.
1:28:26
And even when she's not smiling, she there's there's a smile is
1:28:32
not that far away. That scene where she's at the
1:28:36
end of the woman who fell to Earth and she sat there and
1:28:42
she's, oh, I'm just a traveller. Just felt such a lovely gentle
1:28:47
restatement of also like a reset or a reboot of the serious
1:28:51
intentions. God is the sort of convoluted,
1:28:54
you know. You know.
1:28:58
God doctored all this, you know, nonsense.
1:29:03
And it just felt like going back to basics and it just, she just,
1:29:07
yeah, she completely won me over straight away.
1:29:11
I don't think there are some doctors where I've seen
1:29:16
performances where I've just gone, Oh no, turn it down a bit.
1:29:19
And I don't think Jodie's got that.
1:29:22
I don't think I've there's, there's, you know, at least.
1:29:26
Most of the doctors. You know, whether it's Tom's,
1:29:29
you know, my arms, my legs, my everything.
1:29:32
Tennant gaining as he likes the the the Olympic flame.
1:29:35
Sorry, I was acting it out. Matt Smith in nightmare and
1:29:44
silver. Oh dear.
1:29:47
She she she's it's it's a very warm, considered performance and
1:29:54
I just a ray of sunshine. I mean, she's serious when she
1:29:58
has to be, like you said, you know, when she's she's showing,
1:30:02
she's pointed in the the Sonic at Ribbons while he's got Graham
1:30:07
at knifepoint. She can do serious.
1:30:10
And she has so many doctor moments in that series.
1:30:13
I, yeah, absolutely love her. Yeah.
1:30:16
So no. And yeah, like some people have
1:30:19
said, when she came back at the end of the reality War, just
1:30:23
made me realise how much I'd missed her.
1:30:26
And she's the only, she's hers is the only regeneration I've
1:30:29
cried out, you know, 8 year old sort of, you know, 7 year old
1:30:34
watches Tom Baker fall from a radio telescope.
1:30:37
Now Peter Davison, you know, cushioned by Nicola Bryant's
1:30:41
assets. Dry, dry sit.
1:30:45
You know, dry eye in the house, but genuinely I did not want her
1:30:50
to go. I know there was some idea of a
1:30:52
five year plan, but of course we had COVID and lots of other
1:30:55
things in that that discovered that.
1:30:59
So she was one of those doctors I think had gone far too far and
1:31:02
I would love to see more of her. And of course, we've now got the
1:31:06
audios that with her mandib and just.
1:31:10
Lovely with her. Her there's no smugness about
1:31:14
the doctor. She never has to never feels the
1:31:16
need to put anyone down. You know, you look at shooting
1:31:20
and and joy to the world where he's is it Trevor, the guy who's
1:31:23
played by Joel Fry, the guy in the Time Hotel and he makes some
1:31:29
some real sort of snide remark about him.
1:31:32
And I'm just thinking, yeah, I think they think that's edgy.
1:31:35
That's edgy and I. And the doctor doesn't need to
1:31:38
be like that. The doctor doesn't need to be
1:31:40
like that. And you know, the bit in Diadati
1:31:42
where she's, you know, you know, this isn't this isn't sort of
1:31:45
like a what does she say she's going about?
1:31:48
You know, this isn't a level playing field.
1:31:49
I haven't. This isn't a flat.
1:31:51
Team structure, you're sort names with me right at the top.
1:31:55
Yeah, making the big decisions, Yeah.
1:31:57
And that bit. In, in it Takes You Away, which
1:31:59
is about how she's seen and lost and she she can do the, she can
1:32:03
do the serious stuff. She can do the funny stuff.
1:32:06
Somebody said that she's like Tennant, but with more, more
1:32:09
range. I don't think she is like
1:32:12
Tennant. I think she's her own.
1:32:13
Is it just because she's got a swishy coat and she's excitable?
1:32:17
Because that's a spin? That's basically it is really,
1:32:21
isn't it? Yeah.
1:32:22
So, yeah. Absolutely loved her.
1:32:25
Yeah. I am I.
1:32:27
Really like it when she's angry and we don't see it all the
1:32:31
time. I love that bit in Rosa where ya
1:32:34
says to her we leaving and she just goes absolutely not and the
1:32:38
hair's over her face and you're like fuck, he's dead or or that
1:32:43
you know, remember she's absolutely furious and Once Upon
1:32:46
time when they're about to take away, she's just about to get
1:32:49
the answers and she's screaming out, you know, no, please don't
1:32:52
take them away from. I like it when you see her and I
1:32:55
wonder sometimes if we didn't see enough of that, but when we
1:32:59
do that bit in the Timeless Children where she says show me
1:33:03
the rest and he doesn't as she throws him on the floor.
1:33:09
Boy, oh boy. She she is like terrifying.
1:33:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really like the tagline Space
1:33:17
For All, and I feel like with Jodie's Doctor, as you give her
1:33:22
a very bloody good reason not to, that the wall would be open
1:33:25
to anybody that wanted to go on an adventure.
1:33:29
And I love that about her. I love how sarky and how witty
1:33:32
she is in the face of danger throughout the entire run.
1:33:35
Her mouth just doesn't stop going, does it?
1:33:38
But it's usually very, very funny indeed.
1:33:41
I love how she always seems to be running away from her
1:33:44
feelings and how they always catch up with her no matter
1:33:48
what's going on. I love that bit in Revolution of
1:33:52
the Daleks where Ryan says to her, no no, no, no you're not
1:33:56
going to brush over this, you've been for something massive and
1:33:58
we're going to talk about this, you know?
1:34:00
Or where Yas finally sits down on that beach and says, you
1:34:03
know, why the fuck can't we be together?
1:34:06
And she has to explain why not. Yeah.
1:34:10
Someone said to me recently there was like, sort of darker
1:34:12
things going on beneath the surface while she's being very
1:34:15
sunny. And I don't think it's there in
1:34:16
a sinister way. I just think she's somebody.
1:34:19
Like, in what I think is a brilliant scene, the bit between
1:34:23
her and Graham and can you hear me?
1:34:25
Where she cannot give him what he needs.
1:34:29
And so she just sort of pushes it away kindly.
1:34:34
Yeah, really interesting. Much more interesting than than
1:34:37
people say. I also love her, her homilies,
1:34:41
for right or for wrong. I do like the bit where she gets
1:34:44
on her high horse. So I love the end of Orphan 55
1:34:46
because she's talking about something we should listen to.
1:34:50
I like the end of Kabalam which everyone points out as saying
1:34:56
she's sort of anti Corp. Sorry a pro corporation.
1:34:58
I don't think she's saying that at all.
1:35:00
She's saying the systems are fine, it's just fucking idiots
1:35:03
that use them. They're the problem.
1:35:05
People like you. That's not the problem.
1:35:07
It's. Jeff Bezos delivers those.
1:35:09
Speeches brilliantly. I mean, like, we've probably
1:35:12
talked about it takes you away, that speech at the end, you
1:35:15
know, wonderful. But I think the best thing, and
1:35:20
it might sound like a backhanded compliment, but it's so rare for
1:35:23
us to have an era where a companion and a Doctor last the
1:35:29
entire era together. And I think 13 and Yaz is one of
1:35:33
the great unsung pairings in Doctor Who.
1:35:37
It starts strong and it just gets better and better.
1:35:40
By the time we're in flux, either the Daleks power of the
1:35:43
Doctor, you'll get in some of the most genuinely emotional
1:35:47
bits. That bit where she says to Yaz
1:35:49
at the end of the power of the Doctor, It's all right, Yaz
1:35:51
don't cry when when Yaz knows she's going to die.
1:35:55
It's so beautifully understated by those two actors and.
1:36:00
It's rare to. See just how much two people
1:36:03
love working together on the screen, but it beams out of it.
1:36:07
And, you know, please go and listen to them over a big finish
1:36:10
because they're having the best time in their lives doing all
1:36:13
sorts of things that they never did on TV.
1:36:16
Yeah, I think, I think she's she.
1:36:18
She makes my heart skip a beat every time I see her.
1:36:21
And I don't often say that about a woman.
1:36:23
I'm really pleased they didn't go down.
1:36:26
The older woman, the crazy eccentric, the Tilda Swinton,
1:36:30
the Gillian Anderson, the sort of obvious actors and the
1:36:34
obvious quirks to start off with.
1:36:36
I heard Jodie Whitaker and I went really OK.
1:36:39
I mean, I know she's good, but I'm pleased they gave us some
1:36:42
something unusual and let her slowly sort of peel like an
1:36:47
onion and show all the different things that she could do.
1:36:50
I think, yeah, I think she's extraordinary.
1:36:53
And I still think the thing she did in the cupboard for COVID is
1:36:56
the most extraordinary extracurriculum Doctor Who think
1:37:00
that ever happened. Oh, hi.
1:37:03
This is an emergency. Transmission.
1:37:04
If you're seeing this, the TARDIS must have detected an
1:37:06
upsurge in psychological signals from somewhere in space and
1:37:09
time. Basically, I think somebody,
1:37:11
somewhere might be a little bit worried.
1:37:13
How much is yourself isolating, or as I like to call it, hiding
1:37:18
from an army of Sontarans? But keep that to yourself.
1:37:20
Now, here's what I do in any worrying situation.
1:37:24
One, remember, you will get through this and things will be
1:37:29
all right, even if they look uncertain, even if you're
1:37:33
worried. Darkness never prevails. 2 Tell
1:37:37
jokes, even bad ones, especially bad ones.
1:37:40
I'm brilliant at bad ones. 3 Be kind, even kinder than you were
1:37:45
yesterday, and I know you were super kind yesterday.
1:37:48
Look out for each other. You won't be the only one
1:37:51
worried. Talking will help.
1:37:53
Sharing will help. Look out for your friends, your
1:37:56
neighbors, people you hardly know and family.
1:37:59
Because in the end. We're all family 4 Listen to
1:38:04
science and listen to doctors, right?
1:38:07
They've got your back. Five, stay strong, stay
1:38:11
positive. You've got this and I will see
1:38:14
you very soon. I love her.
1:38:18
Let's go across to. Fraser.
1:38:24
Yeah, we're so lucky is Doctor Who fans, aren't we?
1:38:27
Every person that's come in and play Doctor Who has done
1:38:30
something special and unique and different with it whilst keeping
1:38:33
it essentially Doctor Who and Judy, when it was no different,
1:38:36
she had the impossible job. It was a poison chalice.
1:38:40
You know, as the first female Doctor, she was always going to
1:38:42
get that grief from certain sections of fandom.
1:38:46
She was always going to get, you know, slated before she'd even
1:38:50
picked up a script or put on a costume or anything.
1:38:52
It was always going to be grief. And as as a female, she was
1:38:55
always going to have to work twice as hard and be twice as
1:38:58
good to prove herself to the men out there.
1:39:02
And she did it, though. She was brilliant.
1:39:05
She was so good. I had seen her in Broad Church
1:39:08
start with Daniel, but you don't need to see her in Broadway at
1:39:10
church because she's completely different.
1:39:12
You know, there's, there's nothing in our Broad Church
1:39:13
performance that comes over into Doctor Who.
1:39:16
She is just inject so much of herself into it.
1:39:19
She is a just a bouncy little puppy dog.
1:39:23
You know that she's like a little My little cockapoo is
1:39:26
always in your face, always wanting to do something, always.
1:39:28
You know, what's going on, what's happening now?
1:39:29
Where are we at? Why is that annoying?
1:39:32
Then that should be annoying because it's.
1:39:34
Joyful. I mean, my dog's annoying, don't
1:39:37
get as wrong and. There's a bloody.
1:39:40
Box big enough and you're a dress and you've got one, but
1:39:44
I'm always in your. Face is that annoying?
1:39:48
That's fair. But it's it.
1:39:52
Is it's, it's travel, hopefully, she says.
1:39:54
But she's joyful, you know, it's, it's.
1:39:57
Something that I. I've kind of took away, you
1:39:59
know? You know, you guys know me as
1:40:00
Champion of the Damned, the guy who I think Toby Haddock said,
1:40:04
You know, if there's a shit Doctor Who story out there, he
1:40:07
has the man that'll find something good in it.
1:40:09
And they'll they'll celebrate a few.
1:40:10
That's that's that's what Jodie Whittaker, she goes out there,
1:40:14
the 13th doctor goes out looking for the positives.
1:40:17
You know, she walks into a situation, not through design,
1:40:19
not with any, you know, grand plan to do anything.
1:40:23
She just goes there to experience what it is.
1:40:25
You know, the 3rd doctor says this all the time.
1:40:27
I want to travel the universe. I want to know things.
1:40:29
I want to understand it and say you're not selling it, mate.
1:40:33
Whereas Jodie really does. You know, you get this idea,
1:40:36
like I say that that end of and you know, power the Doctor where
1:40:41
she is soaking up the sunrise because it's beautiful and it's
1:40:44
joyful and it's amazing. And you know, she's got no, none
1:40:48
of this baggage, none of this arrogance of the 10th doctor and
1:40:52
none of this, you know, darkness of the the 11th or the 12th or
1:40:55
whatever, none of this guilt or anything.
1:40:58
It's just I'm happy being me and I'm want to see what happens
1:41:01
next and bring that on. She's frozen.
1:41:04
Why? Didn't she froze her that watch?
1:41:05
She just goes, Nah, yeah. Not important.
1:41:09
Spent six weeks looking for it, but not not important.
1:41:12
And as an actor, I think she, you know, there's this criticism
1:41:16
is that the writing let her down.
1:41:18
And to a certain extent, I think sometimes it did.
1:41:21
I don't think she was the best. I've said this before at the
1:41:23
sort of the Capaldi moments where you get a big monologue
1:41:27
and you you want someone to kind of stand on a chair and belt out
1:41:31
the speech. That's not her.
1:41:33
I don't know where this tenant comparison comes from because
1:41:35
she is very Davidson for me. She is very subtle, you know,
1:41:39
she's very naturalistic and nuanced performance, you know,
1:41:42
So give her the Davison lines, one of my favourite lines in the
1:41:45
whole of Doctor Who. Sorry Daniel, it is putting
1:41:48
someone down a little bit, but it's, you know, if I had crayons
1:41:51
and half a can of spam, I could build you from scratch.
1:41:55
When she gets stuff. Like that when she's involved
1:41:57
Santaran's and she's with that general and she's like, I fight
1:41:59
for queen and country. Oh, is she here now?
1:42:01
Is she? When she's given stuff.
1:42:05
Like that, that is when she she absolutely sings.
1:42:07
But just take your. Helmet off, put it.
1:42:11
Back on. Oh, it's great.
1:42:15
Take you out of. Mate, second thoughts.
1:42:21
Put it back on you have. Information regarding the
1:42:24
treacherous firm and known as the doctor you're talking.
1:42:28
To her you know and and. She just does have this absolute
1:42:32
joy de vivre, you know? I thought I said that right,
1:42:34
General, You know. You know.
1:42:38
You know, we didn't mention Morton ability or darkly much in
1:42:41
the runners up, but you know, there's that wonderful scene
1:42:43
where she's got the the sort of helmet for Waterloo with a plume
1:42:45
on. She's like another plume.
1:42:46
Millions like, I'm just going to keep this, you know, for, for
1:42:50
the proper reason, not just because it looks good on us.
1:42:52
You know, that's she, she has got the ego.
1:42:55
It's very well hidden. And, you know, it's an angry
1:42:57
conundrum when they're talking about this, this book of
1:43:00
celebrated warriors that she's in.
1:43:02
It is like, I've got, you've got a whole page.
1:43:04
And she's like, oh, yeah, it's 2 pages, but never mind.
1:43:08
It's there. It's just not important.
1:43:10
It is so beautiful summed up. And not just that kiss to that
1:43:14
frog. This is one other thing.
1:43:17
She's. She's.
1:43:18
Also very respectful of, of other civilizations, you know,
1:43:21
at the end of Ranskorov Kolos, she tells those people, you
1:43:26
know, to, to keep their faith. And, and in contrast to the
1:43:31
current or the just past era where faith has been kind of a
1:43:36
bit bit, sort of the attitude's been a bit Snooty.
1:43:39
And you know, I, I find that hugely encouraging And, and it
1:43:44
is space for all rather than yeah, space rule.
1:43:47
But if you've got faith in that now, sorry, I'm not interested.
1:43:50
It's tolerance. It's tolerance again.
1:43:52
It takes me away. It gets slated at the end
1:43:55
because she doesn't lock the abusive father away in prison.
1:43:59
It's like, no, he's, he's a poorly man.
1:44:01
So she treats him as a poorly man.
1:44:03
And you know, he's learned his lesson.
1:44:04
She's knows that. She lets.
1:44:06
I think she's she might. Be the only modern series doctor
1:44:09
to not pick up a gun either. I think I'm racking my brains
1:44:15
now, but. She does shove a load.
1:44:18
Of spiders into Yeah, well, she does it.
1:44:21
In other ways, yeah, Yeah, but and take out three.
1:44:23
Armies at once, but yeah, so pick up a cup.
1:44:27
So yeah, it's just a really powerful, just beautifully fun
1:44:34
you. Know she's out.
1:44:35
There having fun in the universe, she's seeing the joy
1:44:38
and everything, and that bleeds into us as well.
1:44:41
You know what? Sorry.
1:44:42
Daniel no, go ahead. I.
1:44:43
Just want to say 1. Thing because I heard an
1:44:45
interview with Jodie recently and it just sums her up
1:44:47
beautifully. And Fraser, you said it there
1:44:50
how she just finds the best out of any situation.
1:44:53
And that's the 13th Doctor. And it's Jodie Whitaker as well.
1:44:56
And the man goes to her. So we're going to talk about
1:44:58
this. She goes, oh, I thought you were
1:44:59
going to talk about Doctor Who. She goes, no, no, we're talking
1:45:02
about this. She goes, well, I want to talk
1:45:03
about Doctor Who. It's the best job I ever had.
1:45:05
And the man goes, well, yeah, she was quite contentious,
1:45:08
wasn't it? She goes, I don't care what they
1:45:09
think, it's the best job I ever had.
1:45:11
I want to talk about it. And she's like, she's OK, man.
1:45:15
All of that vitriol that was undented, it's going to be shit.
1:45:20
I'm. Officially done by Doctor Who.
1:45:22
All right. Rude.
1:45:30
Gutted you've sold out. To the PC squad and I'm female.
1:45:34
My son just pretend. Fainted with excitement.
1:45:37
But an immortal? Time travelling, regenerating
1:45:40
alien played by a woman. It just isn't realistic.
1:45:45
Lots of folks who never. Cared about Doctor Who before
1:45:47
are suddenly very concerned. Maybe we should announce that
1:45:50
climate change is a woman. Fairpoint.
1:45:53
Jamie Gillespie has added a lot of red angry faces.
1:45:56
You've ruined it. You haven't even seen me do it
1:45:59
yet. For each sexist bigot
1:46:00
threatening not to watch, there'll be a young girl with a
1:46:02
new hero they didn't have before.
1:46:04
Hashtag good riddance. Hashtag Doctor 13 Sam.
1:46:08
Who is at what? Have a have a better name Sam on
1:46:11
Twitter. I can't even say it.
1:46:13
He said ruined. I hope we we hang out sometime.
1:46:19
She still. Loves.
1:46:21
It she loved the experience of doing the show it's.
1:46:24
It's the best. Time of her life, she's made
1:46:26
some of her best friends. Man oh man, you guys, you can
1:46:29
throw your hate as much as you want.
1:46:31
People will still come out smiling and smelling her roses.
1:46:34
She fights the monsters. And still finds the joy even in
1:46:36
real life. Sorry, Daniel, no.
1:46:40
Well, I remember exactly where I was when Jodie Whittaker was
1:46:43
first announced as the female, the first female Doctor, which
1:46:46
was on a train, fittingly enough.
1:46:49
And so when the woman who fell to Earth came around, I was just
1:46:53
sold on her from the get go. Where, you know, why are you
1:46:56
calling me Madam? And, you know, can we have the
1:46:58
lights and siren on? And it made me think actually,
1:47:02
and this isn't really relevant, but it's, it's I'm not much of A
1:47:05
Marvel movie person, but Chris Evans as Captain America in the
1:47:10
Marvel movies, he brings this kind of forthright, very
1:47:13
uncomplicated decency to to the character of Captain America.
1:47:18
And in that same vein, I think Jodi's performance, even though
1:47:21
she's, you know, friendly, sunshine and eccentric and a
1:47:24
goofball, she absolutely embodies that, that decency in
1:47:28
the Doctor. If you think about the big, the
1:47:31
big sort of epiphany from the tail end of the Capaldi era,
1:47:35
which was, you know, don't be a Doctor of war, be kind.
1:47:37
And I think she takes that mantra as the Doctor and she
1:47:41
just runs with it and she never looks back.
1:47:43
And she embodies it until it becomes her whole being, you
1:47:47
know, and she's got this infectious joy and that spirit
1:47:50
of adventure and the scientist and the explorer.
1:47:53
She wears those giant goggles, which I love.
1:47:56
I love her when she, whenever there's a sheep, she's got those
1:47:58
goggles on. We finally get a Doctor Who's
1:48:01
truly unburdened, as Fraser. Fraser said from all the back
1:48:05
story of the Time War. They give her another back story
1:48:07
instead. But it's such a powerful
1:48:10
mythology because it's actually very, very simple.
1:48:13
You know, She doesn't know where she came, she came from.
1:48:15
She doesn't know where she's going.
1:48:17
And that's OK. She gets, yeah, as we said, she
1:48:20
gets the chance to reclaim her memories.
1:48:22
And she says, actually, no thanks, I'll live in the moment,
1:48:24
you know, and and and there the whole timeless child arc that
1:48:30
was Chris Chibnall putting The Who back in Doctor Who really.
1:48:34
And and she's just such a giant dork, which is why which so
1:48:40
whenever I watch an episode with, I'm always waiting for her
1:48:43
to pull the what I call the scrunchy face where she goes
1:48:48
because it just makes me laugh every single time.
1:48:50
And she's got a great physical comedian actually, because all
1:48:53
that very awkward kind of Gorky body language which is reflected
1:48:57
in her in her costume as well. Because which was designed by,
1:49:01
we mentioned Broadchurch, your man from Broadchurch, Ray Holman
1:49:05
with the big squishy grey coat and the clumpy boots and the,
1:49:09
the short petrol trousers. Yes, petrol, which is a colour,
1:49:13
not a companion, in case. Was there anyone was wondering
1:49:18
where he's got that supposedly brilliant idea from?
1:49:21
I'm fascinated by the contradictions, though, because
1:49:23
she's she's kind of dressed like a very sort of tailored
1:49:26
children's TV presenter. But the personality is all this
1:49:30
sort of live wire bundle of energy with this brilliant mind
1:49:34
that's sort of sparking all over the place.
1:49:36
And it's one of, you know, and she's just one of those rare
1:49:39
doctors where she's just really nice and, and, but, but then you
1:49:44
go inside her TARDIS and it's the most freaky, frightening,
1:49:49
you know, alien crystalline grotto you can think of.
1:49:53
And, you know, she keeps going on about, oh, my fam, and I'm a
1:49:56
hyperactive child. But as we said, she's not
1:49:59
entirely honest. She there's she's a bit
1:50:01
troubled. She's struggling with her past
1:50:03
and where as and when she does get angry, it's formidable, you
1:50:07
know, and, and I am a Phasmin person, actually, yes, I, I
1:50:13
don't mind me a bit of romance in Doctor Who or the Doctor
1:50:16
falling in love either if the Doctor's not very good at it or
1:50:20
if it's a doomed romance and because the Doctor can't really
1:50:25
live happily ever after because the Doctor has to keep
1:50:27
travelling. So on one level I can enjoy, you
1:50:31
know, the tears and the emotion and the melodrama of, of having
1:50:35
the, the Doctor fall in love and then that love being brutally
1:50:38
ripped away, like I'm never going to see you again.
1:50:41
And I can also enjoy that very gentle, tentative love story
1:50:45
between the 13th Doctor and Yaz with that beautifully
1:50:49
understated scene at the end of Legend of the Sea Devils, where
1:50:53
on a beach it's always going to be a beach, where she quietly
1:50:56
tells, yeah, as you know, I can't fix myself to anywhere, to
1:51:00
anyone, to anything because it will hurt too much.
1:51:03
Can't we just live in the present, which is, again, the
1:51:06
entire philosophy of the the Jodie Whittaker era.
1:51:09
And then you follow that up with Power of the Doctor right
1:51:12
afterwards with that penultimate scene of them having ice cream
1:51:15
on top of the TARDIS, which just made me think of, you know,
1:51:19
Chris Chibnall's written this kind of scene before with the
1:51:21
Doctor and Amy interrupting Doctor Who with real life and
1:51:24
the power of Three, where they just sit on the, you know, and
1:51:27
look over the London skyline. And that scene is then mirrored
1:51:30
so beautifully at the very end of his era where it's all
1:51:34
unrequited, it's all left unsaid, and there is space all.
1:51:41
And I'll just finish with a little story very briefly.
1:51:44
I had this group of friends, my own fam, you might say, who I
1:51:49
met during this boot camp fitness event where it quickly
1:51:53
became clear that we weren't meeting up to get into shape.
1:51:57
We were just meeting up to hang out at bars and restaurants
1:52:00
because we enjoyed each other's company.
1:52:03
So you know, Tricia, Molly, Chris, if you're listening to
1:52:06
this, they're not. And we just did everything
1:52:09
together. We went for cocktails, we ate
1:52:11
out at restaurants, we started a painting class.
1:52:15
We did a Secret Santa Christmas party.
1:52:17
We went to see Top Gun Maverick just when everyone was being let
1:52:20
out of lockdown. So everyone got COVID except me.
1:52:24
We went to a nightclub where this guy propositioned us for a
1:52:27
threesome for some reason. Anyway, just to say that when
1:52:31
they, that's all over now, that's they've, they, it was one
1:52:36
of the happiest times of my life, I think.
1:52:37
And it's all, it's all over because they've all gone their
1:52:40
separate ways. They all live on opposite sides
1:52:42
of the world now. We kind of message occasionally,
1:52:45
but they're all marriage, they all have kids, they're they've,
1:52:49
they've all moved on. And I don't know if I'm ever
1:52:52
going to see them again. So when that was official, when
1:52:55
I knew that was official, I revisited the woman who fell to
1:52:58
Earth sort of five years after first seeing it and fell in love
1:53:02
with it all over again. Because I do think it's such a a
1:53:05
brilliant open. It gives you that same buzz of
1:53:07
new Doctor Who, which I don't think I've felt since since the
1:53:12
11th hour, I think. And you get to the end, which is
1:53:15
after Grace's funeral. And that's a very different, you
1:53:18
know, it's it's obviously talking about grief and a death
1:53:22
and loss and the grief of losing someone.
1:53:25
But hearing Jodie say, you know, I lost my family a long time
1:53:30
ago, but I carry them with me and what they would have thought
1:53:33
and said and done, and I make them a part of who I am.
1:53:37
So even though they're gone from the world, they're never gone
1:53:40
from me. And just hearing her say that at
1:53:43
that moment, it hit very differently.
1:53:46
And it was exactly what what I needed to hear.
1:53:49
So. It turns.
1:53:51
Out. She really means a lot to me.
1:53:55
So yeah, she's brilliant. She's brilliant.
1:53:57
I'm obviously going to be I'm. Going to look quite different
1:53:59
from the previous, but I mean you can't really compare Peter
1:54:01
to Matt and Matt to David. There's elements because we are
1:54:04
all playing the Doctor and the Doctor has these traits that are
1:54:08
passed down because it's who the Doctor is I suppose.
1:54:11
The new body and the new POV gives it this freshness that
1:54:16
gives there a reason to regenerate.
1:54:18
And I think it's important for the young boys and young girls
1:54:21
from all over the world to know that that you can be excited
1:54:24
about don't fit a certain like drawing and and and that's just
1:54:30
exciting. And but you know, and then
1:54:32
hopefully this is a moment and then talking about being the
1:54:36
first female, something goes away and we get in.
1:54:39
Hopefully in next year, we won't be such an exciting little
1:54:43
moment as women doing things. It won't be such a surprise
1:54:47
that's. Gorgeous.
1:54:49
You remember the scene at the end of Revolution of the Daleks
1:54:53
where they all go their separate ways and they all their heads
1:54:56
come in And you know when you said that there?
1:54:59
And I was like, that's, that's exactly that.
1:55:01
There's like 4 people that had the best time running around the
1:55:03
universe, getting up to scrapes and then realizing, OK, we're
1:55:07
going our separate ways now, but we always had that time.
1:55:11
And yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to think of it, but it's
1:55:16
bittersweet because the times were great.
1:55:18
Yeah. Yeah.
1:55:20
Well. That's what she says, isn't it?
1:55:21
At the end, she says, you know, goodbyes hurt so much because
1:55:24
what came before was so special. And it's really been so special,
1:55:29
you know, just gorgeous. Wow.
1:55:32
Let's. Head back and finish off the
1:55:36
rest of the listener comments if we dare.
1:55:39
Mayor. Hello, Mayor.
1:55:40
Who says I love it? Probably my favorite era of New
1:55:44
Who, at least partly because to me it feels the most like
1:55:48
Classic Who. Yeah, PlayStation.
1:55:50
Gamer 187 as with all runs there, refused stumbles but
1:55:54
credit where due to pull off what they did under pandemic
1:55:57
conditions and give us all a bit of well needed escapism.
1:56:02
Someone has said she's the 6th doctor of New New Who.
1:56:06
That's a great compliment in my opinion.
1:56:08
A brilliant brand ambassador. I don't think it'd be
1:56:10
understated how positive an impact this lasts.
1:56:12
His tenure in the role of the doctor was especially for female
1:56:16
fans. I think her post during the
1:56:19
pandemic lets us see just what what she was really like.
1:56:24
Just a really kind, nice, kind woman who genuinely cares,
1:56:29
rather. PlayStation.
1:56:31
Game at 18. 7. Ida Jodie's debut episode,
1:56:36
possibly the best executed tonal visual audio shift in the show's
1:56:41
history ever. I would agree, yes.
1:56:46
He remembers for. The Daleks?
1:56:47
Oh, yes, of course, yes. So when I definitely.
1:56:51
Don't agree with this Theta Sigma who weighs in with dull
1:56:54
people acting in amateur dramatics.
1:56:56
Broadly wasted and suddenly the lead goes all mopey lesbian.
1:57:00
Oh, now? I only included that one because
1:57:03
it was throw away and a bit mean and I think people need to hear
1:57:07
the sort of we need balance, we need balance.
1:57:09
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, you know.
1:57:12
Everyone's opinion is just as valid as everyone else's, and I
1:57:15
am just as entitled to disagree with someone's opinion and say
1:57:18
it's shite if someone is allowed to habit.
1:57:21
I'm not sure that. Chinese ever mopey or a lesbian,
1:57:24
I don't know where. That's.
1:57:26
Coming. We had mopey.
1:57:29
Straight guy in Dave attendant moping all over for three years,
1:57:33
We repeat to. Capaldi, for fuck's sake.
1:57:35
I mean, mopes away for three years, yeah.
1:57:38
How many? Seconds in.
1:57:40
Eternity. Quiet.
1:57:43
Michael Moslin says There was nothing I didn't like about
1:57:46
Jodie or her betrayal. She was the Doctor as soon as
1:57:48
she got up from the train floor. Probably my favorite era and
1:57:52
favorite Doctor. That she is so supportive of the
1:57:55
show despite the wankers of a certain corner of fandom is
1:57:58
beautiful. Are you listening Feta Sigma?
1:58:00
Visually the era was brilliant and such a nice change for
1:58:04
having second doing the music instead of gold.
1:58:06
Maybe the era I have revisited the most, Chris.
1:58:09
Curtis. Did you read that one out?
1:58:11
No, no, go for it. The best, the best the show has
1:58:14
ever looked. Some great episodes and I could
1:58:16
see the nods to the Hartnell era with an ensemble cast.
1:58:20
However, I think making the first female Doctor so reliant
1:58:23
on her fam was a huge misstep. Her agency was removed.
1:58:27
Look at how much more interesting she was in flux.
1:58:30
She was swamped by. Companions before Joe Martin's
1:58:33
Doctor shows us what we could have had.
1:58:36
The era had some great ideas and some land.
1:58:38
Well. Daleks, side men and Sontarans
1:58:41
all get interesting stories who do more with the creatures than
1:58:45
previous showrunners. I don't know how.
1:58:49
Anyone can say that she doesn't have agency in series 11.
1:58:52
I mean she is dashing about and fuck her companion, she's off.
1:58:58
You could that. With that argument, you could
1:59:00
say the same about Hartnell, and you could say the same about
1:59:03
Peter Davidson in series. That's very true.
1:59:06
Seriously. About Trump?
1:59:07
Half the time, yeah. Edward Gillooly The Jodie era
1:59:13
looked fantastic on screen. The photography was great.
1:59:17
I wasn't really a fan of the era, I found it quite boring in
1:59:20
places but there were some stand out moments.
1:59:23
The historicals were best. Rosa demons, Witch finders,
1:59:26
Villa, The Dalek specials were good balance.
1:59:30
He did, really. Do the historical as well.
1:59:32
By the chimney. You can't deny that.
1:59:34
And the Daleks. And the Daleks and the.
1:59:36
Cybermen. Yes, faster.
1:59:41
Right, I have. Got the nemesis then it's
1:59:43
Michael Storm with his essay. So if you want a piss break now.
1:59:47
Now is the time. Obviously, we do love you.
1:59:50
Michael And as a whole I felt that you know, it was a bit of a
1:59:53
slow burn up as it takes time to get it's strike on, but it grew
1:59:56
on me on re watches however I feel it does suffer a little
2:00:01
from roads not taken across the way.
2:00:03
However, at times it is. It looks the best the series
2:00:07
ever has. The 13th Doctor was a bit too
2:00:10
passive at times with Egg was at the 5th Doctor in her
2:00:12
characterization. She for me gels in the Witch
2:00:15
Finders where they seem to have nailed the character and kicked
2:00:17
out the four. Quirkiness injected early and
2:00:20
brought a more determined side. Jodie once settled in, gives a
2:00:23
consistent performance but often tumbles over some of the clunky
2:00:26
techno bubble. An overtly expositional
2:00:28
dialogue. She's at her best when adding
2:00:31
the little naive touches to more serious moments and having her
2:00:34
face off moments I don't often say.
2:00:36
This, but that was quite balanced actually, Michael.
2:00:41
Mr. Lozza says hello, Mr. Lozza. Jodie was fine on reflection of
2:00:46
some really good stories. Lots of classic monsters well
2:00:49
served too. The companion dynamic was a bit
2:00:51
off to begin with. It got when it got there when
2:00:54
Dan arrived. Still think the Flux is one of
2:00:57
the best seasons of modern Doctor Who.
2:00:59
Yes, yes, Mr. Lozza. Peter Auld.
2:01:03
A great actor let down by let down by some appalling writing
2:01:07
and some strange choices for companions.
2:01:10
Flux and the finale was somewhat redemptive and there are some
2:01:13
good stories. Demons of the Punjab, Resolution
2:01:16
amongst the dross, Kablam Praxias, Battle of Rams.
2:01:21
Oh, I just can't be asked. It's rancid old coleslaw.
2:01:27
It's not. Funny.
2:01:30
Yes. Fugitive.
2:01:31
That you do has an amazing reveal, arguably the best 5
2:01:35
minutes of all of 13, period. It's still ruined by the
2:01:37
silliness at the end of the season, of which the Cyber Time
2:01:40
Lord things are even worse than the other.
2:01:43
The Cyber Lords are amazing whilst my.
2:01:47
Daughter adored her 13th Doctor outfit.
2:01:50
Photo available on request. Her father was less impressed by
2:01:53
what the show tried to put out on over these three seasons.
2:01:57
Oh so. Maybe we should be having his
2:01:59
daughter on instead of him. Well, indeed, indeed.
2:02:03
OK, give me a big, big. Give me an orange, Orange.
2:02:09
Give me a Michael. Michael.
2:02:13
Rude Peter. Shake Console.
2:02:16
The. 6th Doctor era of modern Who says big orange Michael a
2:02:20
great actor let down by subpass scripts.
2:02:23
You'll never convince. Me that Chibnall was trying to
2:02:26
win an old Doctor Who debate with the charmless child thread.
2:02:29
All of that said, as the father of a girl who loves science, I
2:02:33
am grateful to Chibnall and Whitaker for the strong role
2:02:36
model the 13th Doctor is for my daughter to see a strong
2:02:40
character who looks and sounds like her standing up to the bad
2:02:43
guys. I will always love and admire
2:02:45
the era for that. Chibnor finds a way to make new
2:02:49
and classic Who adversaries interesting and frightening
2:02:52
again. It's an era I've not revisited
2:02:55
since it ended, and I feel like it's time for a proper rewatch.
2:03:00
Orange. Michael.
2:03:01
Get proper rewatching. We're going to look at the
2:03:03
person whose. Daughter clearly makes a lot
2:03:05
more sense than her pops. I mean, this is the point, isn't
2:03:10
it? You know, there was we talked
2:03:12
about one side of fund, didn't we?
2:03:13
The negativity was Jody, but I am.
2:03:16
It's easy to forget that Peter Davison was chased off of
2:03:18
Twitter, wasn't he? Because he came out and said,
2:03:20
well, you know, we need like positive role models for little
2:03:24
boys. And it was like I.
2:03:26
Can see what you were saying. What you were saying was, you
2:03:28
know, I want a role model, something a friend of mine said
2:03:30
as well. I want a role model and who's
2:03:32
not Iron Man, who, you know, thinks their way out of a
2:03:35
problem more than shoots their way out.
2:03:37
And, you know, you know, their superpower was thinking and
2:03:40
kindness and stuff like that for boys.
2:03:42
And my argument was always girls could, you know, a female role
2:03:45
model can do that for a boy as well, you know?
2:03:48
But I know enough blokes, you know enough.
2:03:50
Kids, young boys that looked up to Jody.
2:03:53
So the only. Other argument is that it it
2:03:55
kind of inferred that Doctor Who had never had strong female role
2:03:59
model characters where if you look at characters like Rose,
2:04:03
Martha, Donna, Amy, even Clara, Bill particularly, they're all
2:04:09
strong female role models in their right, in their own right
2:04:12
and the people arguing it felt like.
2:04:16
They don't. It's almost like.
2:04:17
They haven't watched Doctor Who for for decades and they they
2:04:20
were still imagining that the Doctor's companion is some
2:04:22
screaming girlie in a mini skirt tripping over her her platform
2:04:26
boots and and the me the media still does.
2:04:30
Yeah, I think they do, don't they?
2:04:32
Representation. Is so important to people you
2:04:34
know to see someone out there in your chosen franchise, you know
2:04:39
to experience that be be a television, be it books, be it
2:04:41
cinema to have someone that looks like you be that you know
2:04:45
gender or race or sexuality or whatever you know have them out
2:04:49
there doing good things and bad things and being the hero and
2:04:52
winning and having faults and. Flaws and still.
2:04:56
Winning the day, you know, it's so important to people, isn't
2:04:58
it? I don't.
2:04:59
Listen to Davidson, listen to Colin.
2:05:02
Colin when? About damn time we had a female
2:05:05
doctor changed my dears. And not, well, the same white
2:05:09
male. I feel this era represents me
2:05:11
perfectly well with with Graham and Dan.
2:05:14
Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean I.
2:05:16
Didn't agree with Peter Davidson, but I'd rather have
2:05:18
him on Twitter than not. You know what I mean?
2:05:19
Let's let's let's not be the people that we are customizing
2:05:24
earlier on well and he turned he.
2:05:26
Turned up in power of the Doctor.
2:05:27
So he, I think he endorsed it by the end, you know, well, they
2:05:31
offered him some. Wonga, you know.
2:05:33
When she took off the. Hood in that preview, you know,
2:05:36
after the World Cup, whatever football match it was, man, I
2:05:39
was dancing around my shop the rest of the day.
2:05:41
I was so happy they'd gone for a woman.
2:05:44
Something new, Something new. And here's a new comment from
2:05:49
Jason Thompson, who says, oh, well, then you read out a new
2:05:53
comment from Jason Thompson. I just want to pick up.
2:05:55
Jason Thompson, he's having the best weekend of his life at the
2:05:58
minute. He's just had two episodes of
2:05:59
The Dawn Master Plan returned and man is returning to the
2:06:03
moon. So that's all his boxes ticked.
2:06:05
Hope you're enjoying yourself, Jason.
2:06:07
It was a breath of fresh air. Geordie was brilliant.
2:06:10
Tribunal is not the best at integrating plot and character
2:06:13
moments. Often you could hear the
2:06:15
squealing breaks as the plot stopped to allow characters to
2:06:17
have hot, hot talks. But here's a decent writer who's
2:06:20
not wrapped up in being overtly clever or twisty in his
2:06:23
plotting, and how refreshing was it to have companions who were
2:06:26
just ordinary people? After the Moffat years it was
2:06:29
nice that they just decided not to travel anymore rather than
2:06:31
being killed and resurrected or forced away from the Doctor by
2:06:35
weird Taimi Waimi shit. Now, Charlie Barnes, I need a
2:06:42
word with you. OK, now this is the third time
2:06:46
I've asked you not to send me 20 tweets because, alas, we don't
2:06:52
have the time or the lifespan to read them all out.
2:06:56
But also, you know, when we're doing a celebration to send me
2:07:00
20 tweets of utter vitriol when hacked about the era.
2:07:07
So unfortunately, I have condensed your dissertation to a
2:07:12
couple of sentences if that's OK.
2:07:14
What he says is what we thought was the weakest era of the show
2:07:18
until we were proven wrong afterwards.
2:07:20
This is an era that tries to tackle some heavy topics.
2:07:23
Grief, cancer, depression, climate change, abduction, angst
2:07:26
and fumble. All of them.
2:07:29
Overall, this era was frustrating.
2:07:31
I'll conceived misguided and just plain incompetent.
2:07:34
But you know, it could be Nathan talking a week, Joe Runner,
2:07:38
companions who were ciphers, pointless law change, confused
2:07:42
morals and lame villains. You know, I don't think he liked
2:07:47
it. I'm getting that.
2:07:48
Feeling. I think maybe.
2:07:49
I think maybe he needs a rewatch, to be honest.
2:07:52
Yes. Definitely I'm not.
2:07:56
Massive on the Moffett era, as you know, but I think at least
2:07:59
half of it is very good. I just don't think you can write
2:08:03
off an era like that especially. Not the half you're talking
2:08:06
about, no, that's very good. Is it the good?
2:08:09
Half or the bad half you're you're already the good off the
2:08:11
bad. Off in the forest and annoy the
2:08:14
bad off. Still quite good.
2:08:15
Though. You say so I.
2:08:18
Do. James Lark.
2:08:21
I love the intention behind Jodie's era, the determination
2:08:24
from the outset to tell good stories and make use of the
2:08:27
range allowed by all of time and space, rather than relying on
2:08:30
the narrative gimmicks, timey, whimy nonsense, and references
2:08:34
to the show's past that have become ingrained under Moffit.
2:08:37
I wish the writing had a little more sparkle.
2:08:40
I wish her Doctor had been better defined.
2:08:43
The accusations of Tennant Lite are not entirely unfair.
2:08:46
Boo. Yes, they.
2:08:49
Are. Well, I think they are.
2:08:51
And she doesn't even get to be the most interesting doctor in
2:08:53
her own era. Whatever.
2:08:56
And I wish that. Her second series hadn't got
2:09:00
sidetracked by the twin dead ends of Gallifrey's being
2:09:03
destroyed again and a Timeless Child back story that didn't
2:09:07
begin to stand up to scrutiny. There are some mistakes in the
2:09:10
design. Her costume is mare and the
2:09:12
TARDIS interior is ghastly. But when this era flies, we get
2:09:17
Doctor Who at its best, at its most handsome demons.
2:09:21
Is. Magical Villa via Diodati is
2:09:24
sublime. Flux is hugely impressive
2:09:26
despite its flaws and nothing short of miraculous given the
2:09:30
circumstances. Eve of the Daleks is brilliant
2:09:33
entertainment and you can't you can't really be a fan and not
2:09:37
love the power of the Doctor. Plus we get the best looking
2:09:40
suntarons inside men since the classic era, a much needed shot
2:09:44
in the arm for the Daleks and the best Master since Derek
2:09:47
Jacobi. Overall it's top tier Doctor Who
2:09:50
with the rare distinction of being in an era that got better
2:09:54
as it went on. Much underrated when it went
2:09:57
out, it is certainly due for reappraisal by the miserable
2:10:00
Windsors who dismissed out of hand and I suspect after the
2:10:04
last couple of years might be getting it.
2:10:07
That was a journey. What a roller coaster.
2:10:09
That was my God. I started reading that.
2:10:12
Did he like it or not? I'm not sure.
2:10:14
I think he thinks so. I.
2:10:16
Think yes, I mean you didn't. Need a piss break for that I but
2:10:18
not dinner. I will, I will credit.
2:10:22
James Lark with the best possible description of The
2:10:25
Power of the Doctor, where he just basically described it as
2:10:27
this sort of sugar rush is this and then it's this and then it's
2:10:30
this and then it's this, and it's sort of a run on sentence.
2:10:34
Wasn't it great? No, he was criticizing.
2:10:38
It wasn't it for like 15 fucking.
2:10:39
Minutes. And then he went.
2:10:40
I love the power of the doctor. It was the longest ever I've
2:10:45
seen Jesus Christ. Who's got Mark Donaldson?
2:10:48
Me. OK, Mark Donaldson.
2:10:50
As Doctor Who approached the end of its 6th decade, Chris
2:10:53
Chibnall took the show back to its roots while also making it
2:10:57
feel brand new and vital. The historical epics of the
2:11:00
Hartnell era were given a degree of postcolonial guilt and
2:11:04
emotional heft. The Doctors change of gender
2:11:06
similarly adds a new angle to how they approach history and to
2:11:10
their relationships with their companions.
2:11:12
Jodie Whittaker is phenomenal, fizzing with energy, absolutely
2:11:16
charming and an incredible ambassador for the show By the
2:11:19
time of Flux. Chibnall belatedly gives us a
2:11:22
new model for 21st century Doctor Who that is swiftly
2:11:26
rejected 2 years later. We didn't know how good we had
2:11:29
it till it was gone. He's a clever. 1.
2:11:33
What a wise. Man yes, Scottish.
2:11:35
Man too, yes, we're. Ending on a Cox.
2:11:41
Matthew Cox, not Mate Cox. Matthew Cox.
2:11:44
Despite its bloated main cast, clunky dialogue, and a few
2:11:47
disastrous episodes that don't even meet the threshold for
2:11:50
competently made television, this year I managed to shine
2:11:54
with increasing scale and quality each year.
2:11:57
A renewed focus on the often neglected historical stories,
2:12:00
some of the best characterization of iconic
2:12:02
monsters, and a refreshingly distinct feel that separates it
2:12:06
from the homogeny of the rest of modern Who.
2:12:10
There. Were some lovely comments in
2:12:11
there, wasn't there? Not the second.
2:12:13
Climaxes in there, we think it's going to be over and what's
2:12:16
coming after this. I think there's a name in James.
2:12:19
Locke's comments. Yeah, Jesus.
2:12:21
Christ, man, he won't stop coming.
2:12:22
Didn't he bless him? Well, set the bar for me, that's
2:12:26
all. I'm going.
2:12:27
To say, set the bar for me, the bar's.
2:12:29
About to be broken as we head into the grand finale of the
2:12:34
13th Doctor now. Oh good, Hang on, pause for
2:12:39
dramatic effect while I pull up the episode.
2:12:40
Titles beat. As the Chris Chibner script
2:12:43
would say as. Russell apparently hates.
2:12:47
He put it in his own. Scripts.
2:12:49
Turn on camp. Music the the.
2:12:52
The winners of their respective seasons were Demons of the
2:12:56
Punjab, Can You Hear Me and War of the Sontarans.
2:13:00
And we have also kicked It Takes You Away into the winners.
2:13:06
So where are we going to go first?
2:13:14
Daniel K, give us your answer. OK, out of those four, I would
2:13:22
have to say probably Demons of the Punjab.
2:13:27
I love War of the Suntarans. We've already quoted it.
2:13:32
Hey mate, take your hat off. Oh, no second thoughts.
2:13:34
Put it back on, yes, and also the one of the funniest lines in
2:13:42
Doctor Who because I also wanted to ride a horse.
2:13:48
We finally you know who knew that Santa had its own Scotland.
2:13:53
But and. It's, it's the battle scenes are
2:13:57
fantastic, the scope, the, the, the actress whose name I've got
2:14:04
Sarah, who plays Mary C Cole, She's delightful.
2:14:09
The guy who plays the the Commander reminds me very much
2:14:12
of the same similar character who's in Empress of Mars, but.
2:14:18
I'm going to go. With Demons of the Punjab,
2:14:20
because I think it's more representative of the Jodi era
2:14:23
in that it's thoughtful. It's it, it shows her warmth and
2:14:30
her character. It has the fan interacting so
2:14:35
beautifully. The acting is, is superb.
2:14:41
That ending is you will just break your heart.
2:14:46
And like you, Joe, I, I, I'd forgotten actually, when I
2:14:50
watched it the other night, I'd forgotten that they just did
2:14:52
that revamp of the music with the woman singing.
2:14:59
Just. Lyrical, magical, beautifully
2:15:03
filmed, It's and and with a heart and with a but also a gut
2:15:10
punch that you realise that the villain, the villains aren't
2:15:14
those strange looking demon sajarian things.
2:15:17
The villains actually the the radicalised young man who's.
2:15:22
Who will go to any lengths? Including his own brother to for
2:15:27
his own ideology. I don't think Doctor Who's ever
2:15:31
looked this beautiful. I love that.
2:15:36
Just that little scene where they where, you know, the thing
2:15:39
where Graham sat there, you know, the things we're doing,
2:15:41
which things we've seen with the doc, the scene where they're
2:15:44
they're painting and. You know that's the.
2:15:48
They're doing the hand designs. I'm not quite can't remember the
2:15:50
henna tattoos. Henna tattoos.
2:15:53
And then later on, you know, Yas Graham notices that.
2:15:58
Oh, that's a terrible design and just beautiful.
2:16:02
So yeah, as as a as a representative episode of of the
2:16:07
Jodie Witt, Jodie Whittaker era, Demons of the Punjab has got to
2:16:10
win. It's just absolutely fantastic.
2:16:14
One vote. For Demons of the Punjab,
2:16:18
Fraser. Oh, I.
2:16:23
The demon to the Punjab, it is, it is good, but it's it's, it's
2:16:26
done better elsewhere in that season.
2:16:28
And I think Rosa is the example where everything that demon to
2:16:32
the Punjab is trying to do was done better in Rosa.
2:16:35
I couldn't vote for Rosa. Because when they did the first
2:16:37
one, they voted Rosa out. Yeah, Dylan.
2:16:40
Rod, for that one, they must think we're fools.
2:16:42
Oh sorry, wrong era. Can you hear me?
2:16:50
Again, yes. Oh, sorry.
2:16:52
It's very. Good, but it's good enough to
2:16:55
win. I'm torn now.
2:16:56
I'm torn between it takes you away and I'm torn between more
2:16:59
of the Sontarans. And I initially came into this
2:17:02
thinking I'm not going to do flux because you've it's you've
2:17:06
picked a part of flux. You know, it's like expecting us
2:17:10
to pick, you know? What?
2:17:12
What's the better? 7th Doctor story is Happiness
2:17:15
Patrol too. Well remember, it's the Daleks
2:17:16
1, you know. No, it's it's one, but no, it's
2:17:21
not. But well, the Santons, it's such
2:17:25
a really good example of everything this year I gets
2:17:27
right. It's a historical and it's, you
2:17:31
know, it's shining a light on a diverse character which not many
2:17:35
people know a lot about. It's funny script and it's got
2:17:40
those lovely lines I like from Jodi.
2:17:42
It's so beautifully filmed by Jimmy Magnus Stone.
2:17:45
It's got the second I can all our music.
2:17:47
It's the Santons and it's doing what Chipnas does brilliant with
2:17:50
them, you know, so not reinventing them, but
2:17:53
reimagining them for for the modern, modern era.
2:17:57
So it is fantastic. But like I said, it's just one
2:17:59
pot or 6 pot story. So is it going to have to be it
2:18:02
takes away again because that. Does it as.
2:18:07
Well, that does everything, everything right about this,
2:18:10
this era. Yeah, I'm going.
2:18:15
With the takes away because. It's got everything.
2:18:19
Everything again, beautiful visuals, beautiful music,
2:18:21
beautiful performances by by the cast.
2:18:26
Everything I've said about it the first time around but with
2:18:29
added added extras. If family it's about family,
2:18:34
it's about the family of this bought and coat as it's the
2:18:38
family of the main coat as all coming together.
2:18:42
Yeah, it's it's. It's a better.
2:18:46
Expression of love. At the end, blowing a kiss to a
2:18:48
frog, that's a sentient universe.
2:18:50
Then then I think we'll get from demons the Punjab, which I think
2:18:54
should have just been a historical.
2:18:55
If it was a historical, if it didn't have the Thejarans in and
2:18:58
we could focus purely on partition and the effect it has
2:19:02
on those guys lives, we'll probably be there.
2:19:04
But there's just too much unnecessary distraction in it.
2:19:07
So it takes you away. It takes you away for the win.
2:19:11
I. I'm going to give.
2:19:12
Daniel, the deciding vote on this one, I some irritating part
2:19:18
of me wanted to go for Can you hear me?
2:19:19
Because I think it is such a responsible take on mental
2:19:22
health, telling all those different stories.
2:19:24
Yaz's story about being isolated and how you give back kindness
2:19:28
to people that help you out during those times.
2:19:30
And Brian looking after his friend, showing young black men
2:19:35
going through that and a young black man helping his friend.
2:19:38
I just think it's so beautiful to see on TV.
2:19:41
And of course Graham having his own demons to fight as well.
2:19:44
And the poor doctors after inability.
2:19:47
I mean, I saw it, I saw it with my mum all the time.
2:19:50
And I say all the time, people just don't want to talk about
2:19:53
this stuff and they don't know how to respond to this stuff.
2:19:56
Can I just? Put in a minute because there's
2:19:59
something very important I want to say about what Ryan does in.
2:20:02
Can you hear me to all of you guys that won this caller, all
2:20:07
the guys that are out there, Ryan in sort of.
2:20:11
Can you hear him? He goes to Tebow's house with
2:20:12
some chips and he knocks on the door and Tebow says no, I mean,
2:20:16
it's bad time. And Ryan doesn't go away.
2:20:18
He says I've got chips. He asks.
2:20:20
He's a lie. I've got chips, Yeah.
2:20:24
He asks twice. You know, he doesn't take, he's
2:20:27
checking in on his mate. He knows he's mates not well, he
2:20:30
goes, he does it twice. It's it's, you know, asked
2:20:33
twice. It's a, it's a mental health,
2:20:34
sort of. Not gimmick, but.
2:20:39
Strategy, strategy which is recommended for all of us men
2:20:42
out there because as we all know, the the biggest kill out
2:20:45
of men under 35 is men under 35 taking their own knives.
2:20:49
So just to Chuck that out there when we're talking about
2:20:51
responsible takes on mental health, take that advice guys.
2:20:55
You know, if you think you may, it's not.
2:20:56
Well, ask twice. OK, sorry, just be all serious.
2:21:00
But. No, I mean, I think there's.
2:21:03
Certainly people within this community that that could do
2:21:06
with hearing that too. Yeah.
2:21:08
And so I, I do think, can you hear me?
2:21:10
I think that is 1 where the science fiction elements, which
2:21:13
are still good, but sort of drag away from it being an absolute
2:21:16
classic. I am going for Demons of the
2:21:20
Punjab. I it's possibly my next to turn
2:21:25
left, my favorite episode of the new series.
2:21:27
I do think the fajras are vital to that episode for me because I
2:21:32
lost my mum around that time and the thought that there are
2:21:36
aliens out there that will take people from violent ends and
2:21:42
memorialize them in the way that they do meant so much to me when
2:21:47
I first saw this. It reduced me to tears.
2:21:49
And that beautiful moment, I mean, the whole of the last 15
2:21:52
minutes, I think it's some of the most extraordinary dogs who
2:21:54
that beautiful moment where his soul effectively goes up and the
2:21:58
music rises. I just think it is it is one of
2:22:02
the most beautiful moments in dogs whoever.
2:22:04
But I also think it's what it's an amazing historical too.
2:22:07
It's a period of history that we're a little bit ashamed of in
2:22:10
this country. So we don't talk about it.
2:22:12
So for Chibnall to put this up front in his first season, I
2:22:15
thought was really bold. We're not doing comic book
2:22:17
history when I found Hitler in the cupboard.
2:22:19
We're not doing cuddly Churchill.
2:22:20
No, we're going to take a look at some British history that
2:22:23
we're genuinely quite ashamed of and, and, and see what it's all
2:22:27
about. And then encapsulating all of
2:22:30
that within a family that's been torn apart.
2:22:32
So bringing it down to such an intimate level where we can
2:22:35
understand the story via the relationships between the
2:22:39
characters. Again, I just think that's what
2:22:41
Russell does at his best. But I think it's done here far
2:22:44
more effectively. The last 15 minutes after the
2:22:48
bit where the 13th Doctor confronts Prem's brother and
2:22:53
says that you killed the holy man.
2:22:55
And then she goes, he says that the future's coming and you
2:23:00
suddenly get the beating of the drums and the horses coming in
2:23:03
slow motion. Or I don't think history has
2:23:06
ever felt that dangerous in Doctor Who since the end of the
2:23:09
massacre. Genuinely, like I, I've
2:23:12
literally had chills. And they're running for their
2:23:15
lives. They're running through those
2:23:16
beautiful poppy fields for their lives.
2:23:19
I think it's terrific drama. Come on, keep up.
2:23:22
I'm. Running as fast.
2:23:24
As I can. Look, they're checking the land.
2:23:47
For people who don't belong. This is our home.
2:23:53
Everyone's welcome here. I know what you did to the holy
2:24:03
man. There's nothing holy about.
2:24:07
A man who would approve your union better.
2:24:09
He die than defile himself. My baby brother, who happened to
2:24:17
you? Really.
2:24:22
I know you. We fought together in Siam.
2:24:28
We made a good team. I know this.
2:24:35
I can't let them through, brother.
2:24:38
We are your people. Prem India is your country.
2:24:41
You and Kunal fought for this. This is not what I fought for.
2:24:58
Also think. Like Daniel is beautifully
2:25:01
filmed. I think there are very few
2:25:02
Doctor Who stories that look as beautiful as that, that sound as
2:25:06
beautiful as that. But the main reason for Jodie, I
2:25:10
want to put this through is it is one of the few Doctor Who
2:25:13
stories that really leans into the fact that she is a female
2:25:17
Doctor. And she gets to go to their the
2:25:21
hen party the night before and join in with all the girls.
2:25:25
And she gets to deliver that wonderful speech which shows her
2:25:30
how she feels about loving people.
2:25:32
It's a beautiful speech that basically says love crosses all
2:25:36
barriers. Again, it's one of those homies
2:25:38
which I think we just need to listen to.
2:25:40
I think on every level, I think it is an absolutely flawless
2:25:44
episode of Doctor Who. I adored it when it went out.
2:25:46
I've seen it so many times since.
2:25:48
I think it is one of the best. So mine is Punjab Daniel.
2:25:56
Demons of the Punjab, I know we all keep wishing for a pure
2:26:02
Doctor Who historical, especially now because there's
2:26:05
the budget, there's the, there's all these untapped periods of
2:26:08
history that we could explore without some aliens.
2:26:11
But again, but I think if they didn't do it here, they're
2:26:15
probably never going to do it. I think we're going to just have
2:26:17
to accept that they are going to be aliens in Doctor Who, even in
2:26:20
the historicals. But Speaking of history, and the
2:26:25
Doctor tells Yaz, you know, tread softly, you're treading on
2:26:29
your own history, which is a great line.
2:26:31
And, and she, she gets to investigate and have a proper
2:26:34
sort of Poirot moment where she confronts Manish in the shed
2:26:39
and, and, and you know, Jodie and, and, and mandit get their
2:26:42
best material. I think probably in series 11 in
2:26:45
this episode, because setting it during the partition of India,
2:26:49
even though it is this sort of universal story of, of, of
2:26:53
lovers that are torn apart by violence.
2:26:56
I think the fact that Vinay Patel ties it in with Yaz's
2:27:01
family history and she goes on such a journey in this episode.
2:27:05
You know, she's always kind of pushing to find out more about
2:27:08
her grandmother's background in, in a very sort of, almost like a
2:27:11
kind of police investigation kind of way.
2:27:13
And then she gradually understands the situation
2:27:16
they're all in. And then she returns at the end
2:27:19
to 21st century Sheffield. And she's a bit, she's a little
2:27:22
bit wiser and she's a little bit sadder and she's a little bit
2:27:25
more enlightened. But if you think about it, the,
2:27:30
the, the Doctor and the fam are being a little bit hypocritical
2:27:34
here because they're essentially acting like casual kind of time
2:27:38
travelling tourists. Because Yaz says at the
2:27:41
beginning, you know, what's the point of having a mate with a
2:27:43
time machine if you can't nip back and see your Gran when she
2:27:45
was younger? And the Doctor herself is a
2:27:48
little bit prejudice against the Thorajians at the beginning.
2:27:51
You know, she only knows them by reputation.
2:27:54
And I don't think it's an accident that there's all this
2:27:56
talk about, you know, Lord Mountbatten and the British Raj
2:27:59
sort of breaking all these lives by drawing, just drawing lines
2:28:03
on a map in six weeks. And and then the Doctor comes
2:28:07
storming into that Therajian spaceship and, you know, Nicks
2:28:11
their canister and comes rushing out the forest with that kind of
2:28:14
triumphant sort of 13th Doctor theme.
2:28:16
You know, no, no, no, no, no, no.
2:28:18
And then we find out who the Therajians really are.
2:28:21
And it's almost like a rebuke to the Doctor and her lifestyle.
2:28:25
You know, they say we are not gods.
2:28:26
You know, we've we've also lost our home planet like you.
2:28:30
And they don't actually explain why, which I think is actually a
2:28:33
very nice touch. It's very ambiguous.
2:28:35
We are true witnesses to history and you and your friends and you
2:28:39
in the audience. You don't get to see Prem
2:28:41
getting shot or his body falling into the dust.
2:28:44
We will step in literally over into the screen and watch over
2:28:48
him while you and the rest of the British and everyone else
2:28:52
gets to walk away while history takes care of itself.
2:28:57
And well, Speaking of Prem, that performance by Shane Zarzar is,
2:29:01
I think it's it's a performance I can only really describe as
2:29:05
sort of emotionally constipated, which sounds a bit like a dig.
2:29:09
But he's got a very unique delivery of his dialogue where
2:29:13
everything is so withheld and contained and delicate.
2:29:18
And he conveys a lot of experience just with his eyes,
2:29:22
whether he's being friendly, whether he's getting angry or
2:29:25
whether it's just that moment at the end where he confronts
2:29:28
Manish. And you can just hear the catch
2:29:30
in his voice where he says, my baby brother, what happened to
2:29:34
you? That line.
2:29:35
Daniel and it's. Topped by that scene where
2:29:39
Graham and Graham and Ryan are getting Prem ready for the
2:29:42
wedding, knowing that they're ascending him to his death.
2:29:45
And they put this Garland of flowers around his neck, almost
2:29:48
like it's this funeral wreath. And Prem is so vulnerable in
2:29:52
that moment, and he talks about this very, very 21st century
2:29:56
concern and a big theme for Series 11 in general, that the
2:29:59
ones committing the violence are ordinary people who've been
2:30:02
radicalized to believe this very dangerous, very perverted,
2:30:07
twisted view of the world. And then Graham says all we can
2:30:12
strive to be is good men. And just re watching it for
2:30:16
this. I mean, I just burst into tears.
2:30:18
I thought, I don't know what it was.
2:30:20
I maybe it was the simple sincerity of that moment or just
2:30:24
everything going on in the world at the moment, or just the
2:30:27
creeping dread that, you know, maybe all of this is inevitable
2:30:30
and you can't stop what's coming.
2:30:33
And the late film critic Roger Ebert said that it wasn't
2:30:36
necessarily the sad moments in films that made him cry, but it
2:30:39
was just moments where characters were unexpectedly
2:30:42
kind to each other. And that's what I find so moving
2:30:47
about that moment, is that those simple gestures of humanism and
2:30:51
empathy. And it's the sort of this.
2:30:55
The like the heartland brief that you can't rewrite history,
2:30:58
not one line, but in a much more understated way.
2:31:01
And that kindness kind of stretches through the whole
2:31:03
episode because, you know, we often accuse Doctor Who of
2:31:07
speechifying or preaching because that's literally what it
2:31:11
does. But it's, and it's, I think it's
2:31:13
going to be a bit of an inside joke from Vinay Patel when he
2:31:16
literally has Jodie give a wedding sermon at the end with
2:31:20
that very clever symbolism of Umbreen marrying her husband,
2:31:24
literally straddling the two borders with the Doctor framed
2:31:28
right in the middle. And that great speech about love
2:31:32
that she gives love in all its forms is that it's a little bit
2:31:35
awkward. It's a little bit Gorky just as
2:31:37
Jodie's Doctor is and kind of as it should, because the Doctor is
2:31:42
not great at these sort of social situations, but she's
2:31:45
doing the best she can. And then at the end, you know,
2:31:48
Yaz could tell her Gran at the end that, oh, I was there, I did
2:31:53
see you. But she doesn't.
2:31:54
And she'd, she tells her she loves her instead.
2:31:58
And I think that's the real message.
2:31:59
It's it's all about love. So yes, that one.
2:32:04
The flowers don't help. Much.
2:32:05
You still look like a schoolboy on manoeuvres.
2:32:08
These are the best clothes I have.
2:32:09
They look great. No, Manish, he was out early.
2:32:17
I'll be here. Did you hear the noises in?
2:32:20
The valley during the night. Violence is getting closer.
2:32:28
Who's doing this stuff? Ordinary people who've lived
2:32:33
here all their lives, whipped into a frenzy to be part of a
2:32:37
mob. Nothing worse than when normal
2:32:41
people lose their minds. We've lived together for
2:32:46
decades, Hindu, Muslim and Sikh, and now we're being told our
2:32:52
differences are more important than what unites us.
2:32:55
Like we learn nothing. In the war.
2:33:00
I don't know how we protect people when hatreds come in from
2:33:04
all sides. All we can strive to be.
2:33:14
It's good men. And you, Prem, or a good man?
2:33:36
I am. Come on, marriage.
2:33:49
This is the spot you choose. I'm going to be the first woman
2:33:52
married in Pakistan. Of course you are.
2:34:00
You all right, sweetheart? I always cry at weddings.
2:34:12
I know there aren't many. Certainties in any of our lives.
2:34:16
But Umbreen. Prem.
2:34:20
What I see in you? Is the certainty you have in
2:34:22
each other. Something I believe in.
2:34:25
My faith. Love.
2:34:29
In all its. Forms is the most powerful
2:34:32
weapon we have because love is a form of hope, and like hope,
2:34:37
love abides. In the face of.
2:34:41
Everything. You both found love with?
2:34:44
Each other. You believed in it, you fought
2:34:46
for it, and you waited for it. And now?
2:34:51
You're committing to. It.
2:34:54
Which makes you. Right now, the two strongest
2:34:56
people on this planet, maybe in this universe, I mean, I can't.
2:35:03
Say I'm not happy that the Punjab wins the 13th doctor
2:35:09
strictly come hamster. Now, now, I know, Fraser, this
2:35:12
wasn't your choice. It's still a goodie though,
2:35:14
right? It's not my choice.
2:35:16
I mean, you guys enjoy it, that's fine, you know?
2:35:18
I enjoy other stories more. This is the world I live in, you
2:35:24
know, in the spirit of the 13th doctor, you know, let's not take
2:35:28
anything away from, you know, demons.
2:35:30
The Punjab, it's it's the winner it.
2:35:33
Is. I would just add.
2:35:36
I would just add Ryan being very funny in that episode too
2:35:39
because he I love he gets paired up with the doctor and then they
2:35:42
get transmitted matted onto the Taraji and ship and he's like
2:35:45
nice that was cool. Understated.
2:35:50
I mean the bit you highlighted, Bradley Walsh.
2:35:55
Where they're putting the. Flowers on him that he's got
2:35:57
that burner Cribbins thing where he's just got forming in his
2:36:03
eyes where I just fall apart. Man, these men, I wish I'd
2:36:07
stopped breaking my heart. Well, it's also.
2:36:10
Informed in that his performance, he's just been
2:36:12
through losing someone he loves through, you know, with graces
2:36:16
and it's, it's almost like he's just trying to keep it together.
2:36:20
And. Yeah, like you said earlier on,
2:36:22
you know, don't fans, as soon as Bradley Walsh's name was
2:36:26
announced, they were found in some, you know, elements of
2:36:29
fandom that were going, oh, for goodness sake.
2:36:32
And then he completely blows it out of the park.
2:36:35
I don't think he ever puts a foot wrong.
2:36:37
Two seasons. There's Graham.
2:36:39
He's absolutely fantastic. I think the.
2:36:42
Conclusion that we've come to though with both the runners up
2:36:46
the winners and our choices is this is a really eclectic era
2:36:51
there's lots happening in it it's extremely diverse and
2:36:56
regardless of sort of a handful of sort of more negative
2:36:59
comments there's a lot of love for the 13th Doctors era out
2:37:04
there or maybe sometimes they're just not the loudest of people
2:37:07
you know no it's. It's it's, I say, I think if
2:37:12
we'd done this five years ago, there would be a lot more
2:37:15
negative comments. There it is.
2:37:19
It is a sense of the tight turning of RE appreciating what
2:37:24
there was and long may it continue.
2:37:26
Everyone that said they're going to go and do your RE watches
2:37:28
because it's fantastic. You have to go back and dip into
2:37:31
and enjoy, savour or just. Like, remember.
2:37:35
That moment where she turned up in the reality War and how
2:37:37
wonderful you are. Skipping down that ramp.
2:37:43
Well, fellas, thank you so much. Wonderful.
2:37:46
Here, it's talk about and a wonderful episode.
2:37:48
Did you read a great honour? Please, I'm telling everybody
2:37:51
where they can find you online and and flog your wares while
2:37:55
you're here. Fraser, I'm not sure anyone
2:37:57
wants. To find me online anymore,
2:38:01
you've come down to yourself now.
2:38:03
I'm just going to. Straight off to watch Rosa.
2:38:05
No, I'm on blue Sky. I'm at Felix Razor.
2:38:09
I'm on blue Sky. I'm also on Twitter, you know,
2:38:11
still clinging on to the last dying embers of Twitter, which
2:38:15
I've said for about 5 years now, but you know, you'll be the last
2:38:19
man. Standing.
2:38:20
Probably. Yes, Probably.
2:38:21
The most? You mean?
2:38:23
Well, yeah, fine. Fine.
2:38:26
No, sorry, just to be. Amazed on.
2:38:28
Twitter calling everyone else names.
2:38:31
In the meantime, my project this year is to review all of Blake 7
2:38:37
in order, one episode a week. So I'll be going to do that once
2:38:41
we finished recording here. And you'll find that a box of
2:38:44
flashinglights.wordpress.com, if you wouldn't mind going over
2:38:48
having a read of that if you're a fan and letting us know what
2:38:51
you think, very good it is too. The sequel to.
2:38:56
Sky is full of diamonds. Yeah, also check that out for
2:38:59
all the mad opinions that he's spreading there.
2:39:02
Yes, you're going to. Find 8 good reasons why to enjoy
2:39:05
the Geordie witticate era, including the whole.
2:39:08
Of the flux, the whole of flux. Yes.
2:39:11
And the whole of the trial? Of a Time Lord has one story as
2:39:14
well. Yes, it's got to be done.
2:39:16
Got to be done as well as the woman who felt worth orphan 55
2:39:21
Ghost monument I over 50. Fives in there.
2:39:24
Oh yes, Oh yes, P level will be happy.
2:39:28
Sadly, it came at. #53. You should have made it.
2:39:33
I didn't want to cheat. Just a trick there I.
2:39:35
Didn't want to cheat. And make it 55.
2:39:37
But they're all in there. Go and enjoy them.
2:39:39
Oh. If I say Daniel.
2:39:43
But that could mean two people. Daniel.
2:39:45
Oh. Well, you can find me at Daniel
2:39:49
Rawnsley on Blue Sky. That's RAWNSLEY.
2:39:56
And continuing the Jodie Love. Actually, I novelized the
2:40:01
penultimate scene to The Power of the Doctor on my YouTube
2:40:05
channel Daniel Rawnsley Voices. Where I just I did a sort of
2:40:10
what if the that that scene of them sitting on the chairs was
2:40:14
novelized like a target. And I put all little little in
2:40:18
jokes in there. And it was originally meant as a
2:40:21
project for the 60th. And then when William Russell
2:40:24
died, it became a sort of tribute to Ian Chesterton.
2:40:28
And yeah, there's, there's some good stuff.
2:40:30
There's a there's a line about Martha in there that I'm quite
2:40:33
proud of. So check that out.
2:40:35
And also I would suggest if if you hadn't, if you weren't aware
2:40:40
of it before you watched the Jodie era, anything Evil Dan
2:40:44
related because he is just one of the most delightful memes to
2:40:48
have come out of that whole period of Doctor Who.
2:40:51
Go for the The Parting of the Ways one where Evil Dan absorbs
2:40:55
the time vortex. Yeah.
2:40:59
He's so. Scary.
2:41:00
The pictures of him with the teeth.
2:41:03
All right lad, and if you are fan of Sarah Jane Adventures,
2:41:08
Daniel and I are are making our way through season 1 at the
2:41:12
moment ongoing. We've been having.
2:41:14
Fun with that? Oh boy.
2:41:15
Oh, much fun. Will you just say?
2:41:19
What the lady says from the laser place just one time.
2:41:22
Welcome to the. Unique combat experience that
2:41:25
is. Amber hamster with a blunt pen.
2:41:28
Straightly colour stuff. Those.
2:41:31
Drones and. Daniel Knight.
2:41:35
I'm on Blue Sky, Daniel Knight 73.
2:41:38
And I haven't. I did.
2:41:42
Yeah, I did a blog a while back, but I haven't really done
2:41:45
anything with it. So maybe I should, you know,
2:41:48
pull my finger out and do some more days like crazy paving,
2:41:51
isn't it? Days?
2:41:53
Yes, yes. Days like crazy paving, which is
2:41:55
my favorite, one of my favorite quotes from Doctor Who because I
2:41:59
yeah, I do feel like sometimes my life, you know, days are like
2:42:02
crazy paving. But yeah.
2:42:04
And I'm on, I'm on Facebook as well, so.
2:42:08
And I'm. Generally here, never shutting
2:42:10
up, so skip over that nice and quickly.
2:42:13
Very soon you'll be hearing both Daniels give their God help us
2:42:21
top and bottom. No, wait, all three of you, all
2:42:24
three of you will be doing your top and bottom.
2:42:28
Lots. Of tops and bottoms, Yeah, Yes.
2:42:30
Will you help me? Out what am I trying to say the
2:42:32
top and? Top classic and top modern and
2:42:35
bottom classic and bottom modern Who stories?
2:42:39
Absolutely. You've asked Doctor Who fans to
2:42:42
give you 4 lists and you're surprised that you had so many
2:42:46
people replying worse I've. Asked Fraser Gregory to give me
2:42:50
a list. Oh God.
2:42:53
I do wonder whether. My my worst list will be
2:42:55
Fraser's best list, but there we go.
2:42:58
Definitely when it comes to the modern, modern era, basically.
2:43:01
They've got all those, Doctor. Polls that were in the Doctor
2:43:04
Who magazine, the reason this podcast exists, and just take
2:43:07
the bottom story from each of those and that's basically his
2:43:10
top ten. Yes, turn them upside.
2:43:12
Down and that's I'm sure that's what Doctor Who Magazine did
2:43:15
when they published them so. Boys, thank you very much for
2:43:19
today. And how do we end this in a 13th
2:43:24
Doctor sort of a way? Razor, I'm.
2:43:31
I'm still being a bit socially awkward so I think I'm just
2:43:34
going to go over here. Someone say the spam?
2:43:38
Line please. Whichever podcast.
2:43:41
'S up next tag. You're it.
2:43:43
Oh. Brilliant.
2:43:46
That's good. Oh no, wait.
2:43:48
What am I doing? We've got our end in the usual
2:43:50
way. Keep listening everybody.
2:43:53
So I will count us in then 321. This is the.
2:44:07
Best crew? I have ever.
2:44:09
Went with and that is the. Biggest heartbreak?
2:44:15
For me is leaving Cardiff. As a place I.
2:44:20
Absolutely love it and leaving this family.
2:44:25
Mandip included. Casting included crew, everyone
2:44:30
and. They.
2:44:33
Will not realise the gift that they have given us in love and
2:44:38
spa and friendship and most importantly of all, banter.
2:44:42
I've never laughed so much in my entire life and I have never had
2:44:46
such. A good.
2:44:49
Time on a job with people who work they're butts off all day.
2:44:55
It it's the it's the best team I've ever worked with.
2:45:48
The.