Latest / Closing the Deal with Fexingo: Sales, Negotiation, and Revenue Conversations for Operators / The One Question That Doubled Our Deal Size
Transcript
- Lucas: So there's this moment in almost every sales conversation where the rep asks the buyer, 'What's your budget?' and the buyer gives a number, and suddenly the whole deal shrinks to fit that number. Luna: Right. The budget becomes a ceiling before anyone even talks about what the solution is worth. Lucas: Exactly. And I came across a case this week that I think flips that dynamic entirely. A SaaS company — they sell a customer analytics platform — had a rep named Dana who was in a discovery call with a mid-market retailer. The retailer's VP of Marketing said their budget was $40,000. Luna: And she just took it? Or did she push back? Lucas: She did neither. She paused and asked a different question. She said, 'Before we talk about numbers, what would a successful outcome — like, a really successful outcome — look like for you over the next twelve months?' Luna: Okay, that's not the typical discovery question. Most reps would ask about pain points, maybe goals, but framing it as 'successful outcome' — that's interesting. Lucas: It changes the conversation from cost to value. The VP started describing a scenario where they could reduce customer churn by 15 percent and increase cross-sell revenue by 20 percent. And he said, 'If we could do that, it would be worth hundreds of thousands to us.' Luna: He basically named his own value number. So Dana's $40,000 budget just became irrelevant. Lucas: Became a footnote. She then asked, 'If we could build a roadmap that gets you even halfway to that outcome, does $40,000 still feel like the right investment?' And he admitted it probably wasn't enough. They ended up scoping a pilot at $95,000 in annual recurring revenue. Luna: More than double. And the key was she didn't challenge his budget — she made him reconsider what the investment should be relative to the outcome. Lucas: Right. And this isn't just one anecdote. There's a study from a sales analytics firm called Gong — they analyzed over 200 B2B sales calls. They found that reps who asked an outcome-focused question — something like 'What does success look like?' — within the first ten minutes of a discovery call closed deals that were, on average, 34 percent larger. Luna: Thirty-four percent. That's massive. And it makes sense — you're anchoring the conversation on value before price even enters the room. Lucas: The mechanism is psychological. Once a buyer describes a vivid, specific outcome, their brain starts to treat that outcome as a real possibility. Then when price comes up, they're comparing it to that outcome, not to some arbitrary budget number. Luna: But what about commoditized markets? If you're selling something like office supplies or logistics services where differentiation is low, does that question still work? Lucas: It works differently. You have to push for a more granular outcome. So instead of 'successful outcome' you might ask, 'What would a reduction in shipping damage from 2 percent to 0.5 percent mean for your customer satisfaction scores?' That's still outcome-based, but you're guiding it toward a metric where your solution has a clear edge. Luna: So you're still trying to get the buyer to quantify the value before they hear your price. That's the core move. Lucas: Exactly. And here's a phrasing variation I like: 'If this project goes perfectly, what's the one thing you'll point to and say, that made it all worth it?' That question forces the buyer to pick a single, concrete win. Then you can build the entire proposal around that. Luna: It also reveals what the buyer personally cares about, which helps you tailor the pitch. If they say 'I want to get promoted' or 'I want my boss to stop asking for updates,' that's different from 'I want to cut costs by 10 percent.' Lucas: Right. And let me give you a quick example of how not to do it. I heard a call where a rep asked, 'What would success look like?' and the buyer said, 'We want to increase lead volume by 30 percent.' The rep said, 'Great, our tool does that.' And then the buyer immediately said, 'Well, we only have $20,000.' The rep lost the anchoring opportunity because he didn't follow up with anything that tied value to a dollar figure. Luna: So the question alone isn't enough — you have to help the buyer put a number on that outcome. Otherwise it's just a vague hope. Lucas: Exactly. The follow-up question is, 'And what would a 30 percent increase in leads be worth in terms of revenue?' If they say 'about $500,000,' now you have a value anchor that makes your $50,000 price tag look like a bargain. Luna: So the rep becomes a facilitator of the buyer's own valuation. It's almost like therapy — you're drawing out what they already know but haven't articulated. Lucas: That's a great way to put it. And it builds trust, because you're not pushing; you're helping them think through their own math. Which brings me to another data point: the same Gong study found that reps who used value-anchoring questions had a 19 percent higher close rate, not just larger deals. Luna: So it's both more likely to close and bigger when it does. That's the kind of leverage every rep wants. Lucas: And it's not complicated. It's just a shift in timing. Ask about outcome before you ask about budget. Most reps do the opposite — they ask about budget early because they're scared of wasting time. But the irony is, asking about budget first is what wastes time, because you end up negotiating against a ceiling. Luna: You know, we talk about these techniques on this show a lot, and I think part of why it works is that we're not selling anything here. We don't run ads. If these conversations have moved your work forward in some small way, you can support that at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. Lucas: Yeah, that's the only way this show stays ad-free and focused on concrete tactics like this. No sponsors, no pitches, just the stuff that actually works. Luna: Okay, back to the technique. Lucas, you mentioned the follow-up question — how do you train reps to not just ask the opening question but actually follow through? Lucas: Role-play. Have one person play the buyer and give a vague answer. The rep's job is to ask three successive 'and what would that mean for you' questions until they get a dollar figure. It sounds simple, but in real calls, reps get nervous and fill the silence with features. The discipline is to keep asking until the buyer quantifies. Luna: So silence is part of the technique too. Let the buyer talk. The more they talk, the more they convince themselves. Lucas: Exactly. One of the best reps I ever worked with used to say, 'Your mouth should be closed 80 percent of the discovery call.' He'd just nod and ask 'And what else?' or 'How would you measure that?' By the end, the buyer had built the business case for him. Luna: That's a good mantra. So for anyone listening, the takeaway is: next time you're about to ask 'What's your budget?' — stop. Ask 'What does success look like?' then help them put a number on it. The deal will take care of itself. Lucas: And if they still give you a budget number after that, it's likely a real number — not a test or a ceiling. Because now they're comparing it to the value they just described. That's a much better starting point.