Latest / Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy / 437 | Ultimate Limits Are Still a Choice - Getting the Final Step Right

Transcript

437 | Ultimate Limits Are Still a Choice - Getting the Final Step Right · Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy

• 0:00
  You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
• 0:04
  your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
• 0:08
  Hi,
• 0:08
  I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
• 0:09
  The Kid Counselor.
• 0:10
  This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
• 0:12
  a master class in child-centered play therapy
• 0:15
  and practical support and application for your
• 0:17
  work with children and their families.
• 0:19
  Today's episode,
• 0:20
  we're doing,
• 0:21
  I guess,
• 0:22
  kind of a follow-up to last week.
• 0:24
  So,
• 0:24
  a a different topic,
• 0:25
  but it's related,
• 0:26
  I promise.
• 0:27
  So y'all
• 0:29
  ate that episode up.
• 0:31
  I had like crazy numbers on last
• 0:34
  week's episode.
• 0:34
  So
• 0:35
  you all clearly wanted to know
• 0:38
  how to handle
• 0:39
  not
• 0:40
  telling a child that they've lost their their play time.
• 0:43
  I don't know.
• 0:44
  That was crazy.
• 0:44
  The the stats on that episode are through the roof.
• 0:46
  So
• 0:47
  obviously that struck a chord of some kind.
• 0:50
  And
• 0:52
  One of the things that I've been noticing lately,
• 0:53
  and it's related to that because we talked about
• 0:56
  child moving to an ultimate limit,
• 0:58
  and I read what Landreth said in Art of the Relationship.
• 1:01
  So yes,
• 1:02
  we reach ultimate limits sometimes with a child.
• 1:06
  So today I wanna talk about
• 1:07
  ultimate limits a little bit more
• 1:10
  because
• 1:11
  I think we're missing a huge component
• 1:14
  of the ultimate limit setting process
• 1:16
  in the playroom with kids.
• 1:17
  So
• 1:18
  that's where we're gonna dive in.
• 1:19
  I just wanna give you a really quick update.
• 1:21
  I know I only released one episode last week.
• 1:23
  On Monday night we left for the Bronx
• 1:26
  and we got to watch
• 1:29
  the Rays clinch
• 1:30
  the division
• 1:31
  on Tuesday night in the Bronx
• 1:33
  against the Yankees.
• 1:34
  We actually made the official Tampa Bay Rays reel,
• 1:37
  so that was really exciting,
• 1:38
  and that was my son's 17th birthday,
• 1:41
  and we went to the Bronx Zoo on that day,
• 1:43
  and I don't know how many of y'all watched that show,
• 1:46
  but there were 5 seasons of the show called The Zoo,
• 1:50
  and
• 1:51
  This is how we do it in the boogie down Bronx
• 1:53
  for those of you that watched that show.
• 1:55
  We
• 1:56
  loved that show
• 1:57
  and then to be able to go to the Bronx Zoo and see the same exhibits and
• 2:01
  the same animals and the same keepers that
• 2:03
  we watched when we watched that show together,
• 2:05
  that was this really,
• 2:06
  really cool,
• 2:07
  full,
• 2:07
  full circle moment and it was on Kayne's birthday.
• 2:10
  So that was a super fun Tuesday for us and then we were gone
• 2:14
  until last night Sunday.
• 2:15
  So
• 2:16
  we had a very full week.
• 2:17
  We went to Philly after that and we watched a Rays Phillies game.
• 2:21
  And got to do some really cool things in Philly.
• 2:23
  We saw Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell,
• 2:25
  and we went to the US Mint
• 2:27
  and
• 2:28
  just did some really cool,
• 2:30
  uh,
• 2:30
  we went to like Reding Terminal Market,
• 2:31
  which if you've never been there,
• 2:33
  oh my gosh,
• 2:33
  that place is so fun and so crazy,
• 2:36
  and it was just a lot of really fun family time together.
• 2:39
  So I know I only did one episode last week.
• 2:42
  I wanted to tell you why,
• 2:43
  OK.
• 2:44
  So,
• 2:45
  let's dive into ultimate limit setting pursuant to last week's episode.
• 2:50
  So we know that a child cannot
• 2:52
  lose or earn their play time,
• 2:54
  and the ultimate limit is that they're choosing not to have access to certain toys.
• 2:58
  But not that they're choosing to go home.
• 3:01
  All right.
• 3:02
  But let's now talk a little bit about the ultimate limit
• 3:05
  setting process because as I read from Art of the Relationship
• 3:08
  last week,
• 3:10
  Landreth says
• 3:12
  at least 3 times we set a limit.
• 3:15
  And I,
• 3:16
  I touched on that,
• 3:17
  but I want to circle back because
• 3:19
  I watch play sessions all day every day as part of my coaching groups,
• 3:23
  and what I see
• 3:25
  and actually even in questions that I get,
• 3:27
  even in the Collective,
• 3:28
  the online community,
• 3:30
  I see and hear this,
• 3:32
  well,
• 3:32
  once you've done it 3 times.
• 3:35
  Y'all,
• 3:35
  that is not a rigid,
• 3:37
  hard and fast rule.
• 3:39
  Sometimes you might set a limit 5 or 6 times,
• 3:42
  sometimes you might set it 10 or 12 times.
• 3:46
  There is a patience that comes with limit setting.
• 3:50
  The goal
• 3:51
  is that a child chooses
• 3:54
  to comply
• 3:55
  or not comply.
• 3:58
  We're not rushing the pace.
• 3:59
  We're not forcing the decision.
• 4:01
  We're not leading them toward the choice that we're hoping that they make.
• 4:05
  We are giving them time and space
• 4:08
  in a therapeutic relationship and in a therapeutic environment.
• 4:13
  To make a choice and therefore
• 4:16
  own
• 4:17
  the outcome
• 4:18
  of that choice.
• 4:20
  There are consequences tied to choices.
• 4:23
  So not only are they owning the choice,
• 4:24
  but they're earning the,
• 4:25
  the,
• 4:26
  they're earning the outcome.
• 4:28
  So here's
• 4:30
  where I want to make sure that we don't lose this.
• 4:34
  After we've gone through the limit setting process
• 4:37
  3+ times,
• 4:39
  3 to 23,
• 4:40
  I don't know.
• 4:41
  I've never set a limit 23 times,
• 4:43
  so that might be a little excessive,
• 4:44
  but
• 4:45
  as many times as necessary.
• 4:46
  I mean,
• 4:47
  there are times when we need to give a lot of time and patience
• 4:50
  for a child to make a choice
• 4:53
  to comply with the limit or not.
• 4:54
  So if the child continues to be unable to comply with the limit
• 4:59
  for 3+ times.
• 5:01
  Then we moved to ultimate limit,
• 5:02
  but here's what I think has somehow gotten twisted or lost along the way.
• 5:07
  The ultimate limit
• 5:08
  is not a punishment.
• 5:11
  The ultimate limit is not a consequence.
• 5:14
  The ultimate limit is not us stepping in.
• 5:18
  I've watched it and seen it and heard it and felt it and felt it way too many times.
• 5:22
  The therapist goes,
• 5:23
  OK,
• 5:24
  you don't get to have the
• 5:25
  sand tray
• 5:26
  anymore.
• 5:26
  And they take over and it's like they're disciplining the child.
• 5:32
  Their tone,
• 5:33
  their aura,
• 5:34
  the body language,
• 5:35
  the facial expression,
• 5:36
  all of it,
• 5:37
  it basically communicates,
• 5:39
  OK,
• 5:40
  that's it.
• 5:41
  I've had enough.
• 5:41
  You've crossed the line.
• 5:42
  You're not willing to obey,
• 5:44
  so this is what you're gonna have to deal with now,
• 5:47
  kind of vibe.
• 5:48
  There is nothing about that that is CCPT.
• 5:51
  Let's be really clear
• 5:53
  on what an ultimate limit is.
• 5:56
  It is a choice
• 5:59
  Let me say that again,
• 6:01
  an ultimate limit
• 6:02
  is still the child's choice.
• 6:06
  It's not us enforcing anything.
• 6:08
  It's not us
• 6:09
  insisting on an outcome,
• 6:11
  the child,
• 6:12
  even on the ultimate limit.
• 6:15
  is still being given a choice
• 6:17
  and therefore the child is still in control
• 6:18
  and therefore the child is still in control
• 6:21
  and therefore
• 6:22
  all we do is respond to what the child chooses.
• 6:27
  So let's walk through an ultimate limit of
• 6:30
  the child.
• 6:32
  Being able to have access to the Nerf gun or not.
• 6:36
  So let's say the child is continually shooting you in the face,
• 6:39
  even though you've made it clear that your face is not for shooting.
• 6:44
  And you've gone through this
• 6:45
  7 times.
• 6:48
  So you finally are like,
• 6:49
  I'm getting to a point where I can no longer accept this child
• 6:53
  because of this child continuing to shoot me in the face with
• 6:56
  Nerf
• 6:57
  guns.
• 6:58
  So I'm going to now need to set an ultimate limit here.
• 7:02
  OK.
• 7:03
  Why?
• 7:04
  Because we have 3 reasons why we set limits in the first place.
• 7:07
  What are they?
• 7:10
  Thank you for those of you screaming at me right now.
• 7:13
  So I have to be safe,
• 7:14
  you have to be safe.
• 7:14
  The toys and property cannot be damaged or broken on purpose.
• 7:18
  Those are unwritten,
• 7:19
  unspoken
• 7:20
  scenarios,
• 7:21
  but we know them.
• 7:22
  So if you were shooting me in the face,
• 7:24
  You're gonna shoot your eye out.
• 7:26
  Like you're gonna get hurt,
• 7:28
  OK?
• 7:28
  I mean,
• 7:28
  I know a dart gun isn't going to,
• 7:30
  you know,
• 7:31
  like
• 7:31
  cause blood if they hit you in the face,
• 7:33
  but
• 7:33
  they don't feel good.
• 7:34
  They can hit you in the eye.
• 7:36
  They can leave a mark.
• 7:37
  OK,
• 7:38
  so
• 7:38
  I'm now at a point where I'm not safe.
• 7:41
  Therefore,
• 7:42
  limit is needed.
• 7:42
  Those are the three questions.
• 7:44
  Then,
• 7:45
  we also have to go,
• 7:46
  OK,
• 7:47
  so if I've decided that I'm,
• 7:48
  I'm thinking about setting a limit here,
• 7:50
  what are the other three questions that we ask ourselves?
• 7:55
  All right,
• 7:56
  overachievers.
• 7:57
  So we have,
• 7:58
  is this limit actually necessary?
• 8:01
  Cause y'all,
• 8:02
  we need to pause and ask ourselves that all the time.
• 8:05
  All the time
• 8:06
  before we actually
• 8:08
  say the limit out loud.
• 8:10
  Because just because we're irritated,
• 8:11
  just because our own emotions are high,
• 8:14
  just because we don't have tolerance,
• 8:16
  just because we really wish something would stop.
• 8:19
  does not mean that that limit is necessary or needed.
• 8:22
  So,
• 8:23
  why do we pause and ask ourselves this?
• 8:25
  Because we need to.
• 8:26
  Is this limit actually necessary?
• 8:28
  You will be surprised at how many times you say no.
• 8:31
  If you give yourself a moment to consider that question.
• 8:34
  Then
• 8:34
  can I consistently enforce this limit?
• 8:37
  You can't flippantly
• 8:39
  state a limit
• 8:40
  and then never enforce it again.
• 8:42
  So that's a second consideration.
• 8:44
  And then the third,
• 8:45
  can I allow this behavior to continue
• 8:47
  and still maintain unconditional acceptance of this child?
• 8:51
  That's where you might say,
• 8:52
  all right,
• 8:52
  then I have to set a limit cause I can't accept this kid
• 8:55
  right now if he shoots me in the face one more time.
• 8:58
  OK,
• 8:58
  so we have 3 unspoken expectations for why we set limits in the first place.
• 9:03
  Then we have 3 questions that we ask ourselves.
• 9:05
  So we go through all of those things
• 9:08
  and then we say,
• 9:09
  all right,
• 9:09
  yes,
• 9:09
  I'm gonna set an ultimate limit cause this kid has
• 9:12
  chosen not to comply 7 times in a row.
• 9:16
  If you choose to continue to shoot me in the face
• 9:19
  With the Nerf gun,
• 9:20
  you choose not to have the Nerf gun the rest of our play time today.
• 9:24
  But if you choose
• 9:25
  not to shoot me in the face
• 9:28
  and you choose to shoot me anywhere else on my body
• 9:31
  or something else in the room,
• 9:33
  you choose to continue to play with the Nerf gun for the rest of our time today,
• 9:36
  which do you choose?
• 9:39
  If the child looks you point blank in your face,
• 9:44
  dead in your eyes,
• 9:45
  and cocks the Nerf gun and pulls the trigger and it hits you right in the lip.
• 9:51
  The child made a choice.
• 9:55
  We don't get up angry.
• 9:56
  We don't get up and yank the gun out of the kid's hand.
• 9:59
  We don't try to teach them a lesson.
• 10:01
  We don't try to impart the,
• 10:03
  well,
• 10:04
  you knew that I was not for shooting and you shot me anyway.
• 10:08
  This is how we take over
• 10:10
  and we make this like retribution of some sort or we make this justice
• 10:15
  or we're trying to make sure that they know.
• 10:18
  It was a choice
• 10:20
  Y'all,
• 10:21
  I'm not trying to be funny or flippant here.
• 10:24
  If you offer a choice.
• 10:27
  You have to be able to acknowledge and accept the fact that it's a choice.
• 10:31
  You literally just said,
• 10:33
  if you choose
• 10:35
  not to shoot me,
• 10:36
  you choose to keep the gun,
• 10:37
  but if you choose to shoot me,
• 10:39
  you choose not to keep the gun,
• 10:40
  which do you choose?
• 10:41
  By the nature of the very words that you spoke,
• 10:44
  you have given that child a choice.
• 10:48
  So then you decide.
• 10:50
  In the moment
• 10:51
  to let the child decide.
• 10:55
  It's a choice we make to give the child a choice,
• 10:58
  and then the child chooses.
• 10:59
  Look,
• 11:00
  we would always choose for the child
• 11:02
  to choose the positive outcome.
• 11:05
  I would always choose for a kid to have access to every single toy in the playroom.
• 11:10
  I would always choose for a child not to have to
• 11:13
  give up the sand tray
• 11:15
  or give up the Nerf gun
• 11:17
  or give up the wooden blocks.
• 11:21
  I would always choose
• 11:22
  for the child to have everything in the playroom,
• 11:25
  but sometimes kids choose not to.
• 11:29
  We're not angry,
• 11:30
  we're not upset,
• 11:31
  we're not punishing
• 11:33
  or inflicting some kind of consequence.
• 11:36
  We're merely saying,
• 11:37
  oh,
• 11:38
  you've chosen not to have the Nerf gun for the rest of the day today,
• 11:41
  but you can try again next time.
• 11:44
  And then we go over and we
• 11:45
  gently,
• 11:46
  calmly,
• 11:47
  with care and kindness and acceptance,
• 11:49
  we take the
• 11:50
  Nerf gun away from the child and we put it outside of the room.
• 11:55
  Do you know how many
• 11:57
  Items have ended up outside my playroom door in certain sessions.
• 12:02
  Half my playroom was sitting outside in the hallway
• 12:05
  for any random unsuspecting person,
• 12:07
  parent,
• 12:07
  kid,
• 12:08
  other therapist,
• 12:09
  whatever.
• 12:09
  Like
• 12:10
  anybody that walks by goes,
• 12:11
  Oh boy,
• 12:12
  that kid is not able to comply with limits today.
• 12:16
  Wow,
• 12:16
  that kid is choosing to lose a lot of items today.
• 12:19
  You wanna know what they didn't say and didn't think?
• 12:22
  Man,
• 12:23
  Brenna has taken so many things away from that kid today.
• 12:27
  We're not
• 12:28
  the enforcers of anything.
• 12:32
  We just act on the choice that the child made.
• 12:35
  If the child chooses to shoot you in the face
• 12:37
  after you set an ultimate limit.
• 12:40
  The child has chosen not to have the gun.
• 12:44
  So we very calmly
• 12:45
  with so much diplomacy and acceptance
• 12:48
  and nothing fazes us calm.
• 12:51
  Oh,
• 12:52
  you chose to shoot me in the face again,
• 12:54
  so you've chosen not to have the gun for the rest of our play time today,
• 12:57
  but you can choose to have it next time.
• 12:59
  You can choose to try again next week.
• 13:03
  And we remove the gun,
• 13:04
  we put it outside of the playroom,
• 13:07
  and we are right back in the session
• 13:09
  as if nothing.
• 13:11
  Negative happened because nothing negative happened because
• 13:13
  nothing negative happened.
• 13:16
  I have so many therapists that are like,
• 13:19
  And I don't know,
• 13:19
  I mean,
• 13:19
  it's just like it's so frustrating and it makes
• 13:21
  me mad and it just like irritates me and
• 13:23
  I just feel like there's a
• 13:25
  y'all,
• 13:26
  that's your junk.
• 13:28
  It is your junk if you are getting emotional or reactive or upheaved or charged
• 13:34
  when a child chooses not to have a toy.
• 13:40
  You're just acknowledging the choice that was made.
• 13:42
  It is a choice.
• 13:45
  You don't go,
• 13:46
  OK,
• 13:47
  you don't get the gun anymore.
• 13:50
  That's you taking something away from them.
• 13:52
  That's not how this works.
• 13:53
  The child chose not to have it.
• 13:56
  And that's another thing,
• 13:57
  we need to be real careful with our words.
• 13:59
  I just watched a video last week
• 14:01
  where the therapist said,
• 14:04
  Oh,
• 14:04
  you're choosing for me to take that away.
• 14:06
  Oh,
• 14:06
  hold on.
• 14:08
  They're not choosing for us to take it away.
• 14:11
  They're choosing not to have it anymore.
• 14:14
  Yes,
• 14:14
  that means that we remove it,
• 14:16
  but
• 14:16
  they're not choosing for us to take it away.
• 14:18
  That inserts us into the mix.
• 14:20
  We're not in this mix.
• 14:21
  This is the child's choice.
• 14:24
  You're choosing not to have this.
• 14:27
  And then it's put
• 14:28
  outside of the room.
• 14:30
  So even our words matter with this,
• 14:32
  so we need to be very intentional and very careful
• 14:36
  with our understanding of ultimate limit setting number one,
• 14:39
  but also
• 14:40
  how we actually execute this,
• 14:42
  the words that we say,
• 14:43
  the tone,
• 14:44
  the facial expression,
• 14:45
  the body language,
• 14:47
  our vibe matters here.
• 14:50
  Because saying the on target words.
• 14:54
  And everything else about you that is ticked off
• 14:57
  and you're ripping it out of the kid's hand
• 14:59
  and you're like,
• 14:59
  huh,
• 14:59
  that'll teach you in your head.
• 15:02
  That's about as far away from CCPT as we can get.
• 15:07
  So,
• 15:08
  a child chooses sometimes to lose things,
• 15:11
  not
• 15:12
  their play time,
• 15:13
  but sometimes they choose to lose items in the playroom.
• 15:17
  But that doesn't upset us.
• 15:21
  We're acknowledging that they're making a choice
• 15:23
  and by making the choice,
• 15:25
  they're learning self-control,
• 15:27
  they're learning self-regulation.
• 15:29
  They're learning
• 15:30
  how to accept
• 15:32
  the consequences of their decisions.
• 15:35
  They're understanding outcomes tied to behavior.
• 15:39
  Those are the things that we know children gain,
• 15:42
  and they do that through testing limits.
• 15:45
  I think often we look at
• 15:46
  children who test limits
• 15:48
  as like our harder kids or our frustrating kids or our frustrating
• 15:51
  kids or the ones that make CCPT more tricky and more difficult.
• 15:55
  I don't know why we have that perspective.
• 15:58
  A kid testing limits,
• 16:00
  that's a kid testing limits,
• 16:01
  that's a kid that's learning how to regulate.
• 16:03
  That's a kid learning how to accept consequences.
• 16:06
  That's a kid learning worldview.
• 16:08
  That's a kid that's working through their junk.
• 16:11
  Why does it bother us if they test limits?
• 16:14
  It's just like anything else they work on.
• 16:15
  When we have a fear facing kid
• 16:17
  because they're working on their anxiety,
• 16:19
  that doesn't bother us.
• 16:22
  So why does it matter if a kid tests limits?
• 16:24
  They're working on their junk.
• 16:27
  That's a very powerful
• 16:29
  moment in a play session.
• 16:30
  That's something that we hopefully get excited about,
• 16:33
  not that we lament.
• 16:35
  So I hope that that
• 16:37
  kind of adds a little bit of punch to last week's episode.
• 16:40
  Y'all ate that up,
• 16:41
  so I don't know how this one's gonna go,
• 16:43
  but
• 16:43
  I hope that this is helping us really hone in
• 16:46
  on what this is about.
• 16:48
  We
• 16:49
  unconditionally accept kids.
• 16:51
  They get their time not because they earn or lose it,
• 16:55
  and we accept that when an ultimate limit is provided,
• 16:57
  that is still a choice,
• 16:58
  and we're OK with either
• 17:00
  side of that choice.
• 17:02
  So,
• 17:03
  hopefully that encourages you.
• 17:04
  I'd love to hear from you.
• 17:05
  Reach out if you're interested in chatting with me
• 17:08
  virtually.
• 17:09
  brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
• 17:11
  Hey,
• 17:11
  by the way,
• 17:11
  New Jersey live events coming up really soon.
• 17:14
  So if you all wanna get in,
• 17:15
  make sure you register,
• 17:17
  go to the show notes and you'll find all the stuff,
• 17:19
  but playtherapynow.com is kind of the hub for all that stuff.
• 17:21
  So,
• 17:22
  I love you all.
• 17:22
  We'll talk again soon.
• 17:23
  Bye.
• 17:25
  Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
• 17:28
  Brenna Hicks.
• 17:29
  For more episodes and resources,
• 17:31
  please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.