Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jeff King: Persecution Of Christians Ignored By Media, Government

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Jeff King: Persecution Of Christians Ignored By Media, Government · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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  Hey, friends.
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  Thanks so much for tuning in, for sharing the podcast, and we can't wait to get to our
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  guest today.
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  We're about persecution.
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  The organization is called International Christian Concern, and we've got Jeff King with
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  us.
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  So Jeff King is one of the world's leading experts on religious freedom.
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  And he's the president of ICC, International Christian Concern.
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  The website is persecution.org.
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  He's traveled more than 70 countries.
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  He's been interviewed or quoted by, interviewed or quoted by a lot of media outlets, including
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  the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Fox, BBC, CBN, and many, many others too many,
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  too many to mention here.
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  But he loves to teach the secrets of spiritual growth derived from the hidden world of
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  martyrs and those who have been persecuted.
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  He's the author of Islam Uncensored, last words of the martyrs.
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  He actually has a new devotional out.
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  It's called The Whisper.
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  If you want to check that out, it's on Amazon.
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  The Whisper Lessons of Renewal, whispered from the prisons of the persecuted.
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  So again, as Jeff King, you can look him up, Jeff, brother, so good to connect with you.
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  David, great to be with you.
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  Yeah, great to see you.
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  So let's start with just an overview of ICC, International Christian Concern.
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  I know you've been around since I think 95, how long have you been with them and what
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  have you guys been up to?
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  Well, let's see, I've been around 20 some years, called through Mirageless Dream.
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  We serve the persecuted overseas and we kind of do it in three primary ways.
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  So first of all, as you can imagine, we do a whole bunch of bandaging.
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  That means, you know, lives, bodies, repairing buildings, pastor gets killed, we take care
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  of his family.
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  And that's the bandaging.
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  So we also build.
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  So we build the church in the toughest places in the world and that can be through pushing
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  out scriptures or underground pastors or even being in a gospel into North Korea.
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  So that's where overseas work.
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  We work on Capitol Hill.
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  We work with senators and congressional representatives, state department and sometimes
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  the administration, depending on who's in there.
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  And then I do a whole bunch of this work with awareness and just trying to get the world.
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  And the church to understand what's happening to the persecuted overseas.
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  We can get as political as we want on this podcast and I often do and I have a problem
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  with the lack of awareness that I think a lot of people have in the current administration,
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  the Biden administration, they certainly are not helping out when it comes to other countries
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  and the persecution of Christians, especially in places like Nigeria.
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  I think you wrote about something over at on the website about the Nicaragua.
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  Talk about that.
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  And is there anything other than contacting our representatives, our senators of congressman?
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  Is there anything the average Christian can can do to raise awareness about this because
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  our administration doesn't seem to be as interested in helping persecuted brothers and sisters
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  in Christ.
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  Yeah, well, and you brought up Nigeria, David.
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  Let's talk about Nigeria.
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  Most people have very little idea what's going on, but I would say Nigeria is probably the
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  most dangerous place to be a Christian and it's slightly different than North Korea.
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  But oh my gosh, look, since the turn of the century, we've seen upwards maybe a hundred
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  thousand Christians murdered.
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  And you know, so that's just in the last 20 some years.
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  And then another three million Christians have had their farm stone and they were killed,
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  they're decimated, the lands are stolen by Islamists that are terrorist, but they're
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  aided and abetted by the government.
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  You can't prove that in a courtroom, but I can tell you that's what's going on after
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  watching and learning and listening to plenty of Nigerians for a long time.
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  So a massive, massive problem, somehow the government seems completely incompetent.
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  They're not.
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  They never arrest anybody.
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  They never go after the perpetrators.
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  They show up afterwards and say, my would a terrible thing.
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  We're going to have to do something about this.
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  And with the US government, they say, my gosh, this is such a hard problem.
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  It's such a tough foe.
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  These are guerrilla fighters.
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  If you send us more money for military aid, perhaps we could do something, but nothing ever
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  happens.
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  Yeah.
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  Money is rarely the answer because as we've seen here in America, it doesn't get to the
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  people that need it.
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  It's the government or corrupt officials and Nigeria, Africa, and a lot of other countries
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  handle that the same way.
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  But Jeff, you've got a portion of your website under take action over at persecution.org
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  petition.
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  There's jobs volunteer, a letter writing campaign, give monthly.
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  There's internships.
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  Tell us about one or two you might want to highlight for people that really don't know
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  how they could get involved.
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  Yeah, well, the first thing, and honestly, you asked me that question before, I really
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  didn't follow up.
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  So apologies.
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  But the first thing is that people need to get informed.
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  And it's like, look, the press isn't going to talk about this.
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  The press is hostile.
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  The press is hostile.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  The press, when they do studies, they're very liberal.
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  They're hostile towards Christianity.
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  So this is not going to be an interest to them unless it's some kind of major attack where
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  there's some geopolitical overlay, they're not going to cover it.
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  And so then the pastors are often ill informed.
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  And then so the average Christian in the pew, again, they're not hearing it.
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  They're not education.
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  The first thing is to get educated.
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  We put out a magazine called persecution.
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  So people will understand what's going on in there.
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  And then our website, we're pushing out news every day with what's going on.
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  So that people will first of all understand and be alerted to what's going on.
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  And then they can, they can call members, they can call embassies.
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  That's highly effective.
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  But the first thing is to get informed.
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  And there's such a lack of information out there.
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  And then as you said, the media certainly is not going to take up the cause of the biblical
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  worldview or Christians, true Christians, I should say.
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  Let's talk about some of the information I got when I was, you know, having planning
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  to have you on the podcast is what happened with ISIS and the terror attack that was
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  thwarted in Corteline, Idaho.
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  And this guy, Alexander Scott, Makiria was very open and blatant about what he was intending
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  to do.
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  Just talk to us about what happened and how ICC got involved.
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  Well, we're following, you know, we've seen this kind of thing for a long time.
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  You know, when I got involved with the organization 20 years ago, I had to answer for myself.
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  What is going on with Islam?
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  Islam was the story with persecution.
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  It used to be the old Marxist states, but then Islam really was the forerunner.
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  And the primary cause of persecution around the world.
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  So I had to, I had to study for a long time and understand what was going on with Islam
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  to answer the question of persecution.
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  So there's, they poured a lot of money into radicalizing the world's Muslims into putting
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  lots of radical content out of the web, raising up young jihadists and madrasas, etc., etc.
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  So this young man was, he was absorbing content online and then was in touch with different
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  ISIS elements and was raising funds and then felt, he felt like he wasn't doing enough
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  for the cause and decided to attack his local church in his town and had it planned out.
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  Luckily, once he got to that stage, he was actually talking to people in the FBI.
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  But very serious, he had made a, you know, a final video they arrested him the night before
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  he had planned the attack on April 6th and he was planning for an attack on April 7th.
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  On churches.
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  On church in his town, yeah.
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  We've seen, I mean, we can look at both, just the Judeo-Christian worldview, we can look
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  at Jews, we can look at Christians, they're not just hostile toward the Jews because we've
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  heard a lot since, you know, Hamas attacked Israel last October 7.
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  But there's a lot of information out there that if they were open about a lot of people,
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  a lot of them are saying, have you heard the expression, the Saturday people first, the
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  Sunday people next, meaning they're going to go after the Saturday worshippers, the Jews,
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  and then they're going to go after the Christians because we are the obstacle to Islam being
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  spread, being radicalized because there's a hatred and what we see in the media is being
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  stirred up in Hollywood, the constant, I mean, I don't understand the fact that they're
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  getting away with some of this rhetoric, Jeff, but yet, since the Israel Gaza war, now
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  we see it on our own college campuses and it's not going to stop there.
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  So your concerns, I think this should have been the back to Idaho, that should have
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  been something that raised a lot of red flags and alarm bells should have gone off, but
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  they didn't really, we're back to business as usual, that should have been something that
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  was kind of like a wake-up call, what are your thoughts on that?
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  Well, I would totally agree and it is disconcerting.
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  What's going on, why won't the press pick up on this, and one of the things I can think
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  of is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, right?
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  And so the average liberal has no idea what they're dealing with with radical Islam.
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  And you mentioned the rise and protests in the top schools, meaning the Ivy League schools,
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  fascinating story again, and you can trace it back, there's a whole bunch of money from
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  the goal, from the Saudis and from Qatar that is flowing to the top universities, to the
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  tune of about a billion dollars a year, and a lot of that is going into the Middle East
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  studies programs, they'd kind of hijack those departments around the country.
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  And when you're giving out that kind of money, you have a whole lot of influence, a whole
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  lot of say in what should be taught, what teachers should be hired, you know, my gosh,
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  doesn't this teacher look great, wouldn't it be great to have on your campus, you know,
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  of course our gift is not dependent on that, but this sure would be a great thing.
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  Well, what do you think the school administrators are going to do?
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  Absolutely, and this is what's happened in the Middle East studies departments across
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  the country, and especially in the top schools, the, again, the Saudis and the government
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  and Qatar are funding this, they've done it for 20 years, and the scary thing is that
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  the universities are hiding it, and purposefully hiding it, but this is money coming in from
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  honestly hostile governments.
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  Yeah, I got some information on what you're talking about, and the Gatesstone Institute
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  reported on this dark money nightmare, how Qatar bought the Ivy League, and it says
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  approximately $13 billion in undocumented contributions from foreign governments.
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  Yeah.
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  Okay, man, and this is, I mean, I guess it shouldn't surprise us because it's, we've
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  seen this in politics, we've seen this just in corporations and that it's the dark money,
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  but we've got to take a brief pause.
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  Again, friends, we have a Jeff King, president of ICC International Christian Concern, we'll
• 13:21
  be right back on World View Matters.
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  you.
• 14:31
  Jeff King is with us International Christian Concern, persecution.org is the website.
• 14:36
  Now, let's go back to the money.
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  I know there's another story I wanted to talk to, I wanted to go over to Finland, but there's
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  an interesting quote in that the information I got here, what's being taught is bought.
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  The money that's coming in and it's going to some of the American Ivy League schools.
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  I mean, I look at these programs, Cornell, I mean, whatever you'd like to share on that,
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  because I think still a lot of people are not willfully ignorant.
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  They just don't know it wouldn't be in the news because they're not reporting what's
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  happening behind the scenes at the university level.
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  They've been really hijacked by the left and has been that way for decades.
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  Share your thoughts on the money and how we can be more aware of what's happening there.
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  Well, and the left is one thing, but radical Islam is a whole different thing, right?
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  And China and other.
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  And China, yeah.
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  And of course, China's working beyond the university.
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  They're stealing technology, they're buying influence.
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  They are buying votes in DC, funneling money into case tree.
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  Oh my gosh.
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  Yeah.
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  You know, the saying democracy is a terrible form of government comes to mind, but it's
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  just better than all the rest.
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  So, but this is always a part and parcel of democracy and you wish our intel agencies
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  were stronger on this.
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  But yeah.
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  A phrase, I know you're a fan of David, follow the money, right?
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  If there's a financial incentive, just look at what's going on.
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  If you're seeing this kind of craziness and it all starts suddenly and after a
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  mosque goes and slaughters over a thousand innocents and then you see this craziness
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  all erupt at the same time and you see the same placards and the same sayings.
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  Well, then you have to got it, you have to wonder.
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  And then again, you follow the money and you know, we became aware of this more than a
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  decade ago.
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  We're seeing this with Georgetown with different places.
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  That was kind of when the beginning, maybe about 15 years ago when the Saudi money was
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  flowing in and and we couldn't put all of it together.
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  It's like, you know, they're buying influence, but where does this lead?
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  Now we see where it's leading.
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  Now, the irony is that again, they're buying, they've really co-opted the Middle East studies
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  programs and the irony is that these programs, these departments were studied, were started
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  by the Pentagon, by the Intel agencies in this country because we wanted to develop
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  smarts.
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  We wanted to develop scholars that had an understanding of the Middle East and we were
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  fairly ignorant at the time.
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  So they built these departments and now foreign governments have basically come in and co-opted
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  them, taken them over.
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  Wow.
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  It is absolutely astounding.
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  People are basically being told, don't believe your eyes and what's happening.
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  They have all these signs, right, professionally made banners and what about the tents being
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  put up on universities?
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  They're all like these same exact, I mean, this is not an organic spontaneous protest.
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  Follow the money.
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  Excellent point, Jeff King.
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  There's an article on your website if you want to shift gears slightly about someone
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  I wrote about Dr. Pavi Rosinin and this is called Christian Parliamentarian Faces Third,
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  her third criminal trial for so-called alleged hate speech over in Finland.
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  There's you standing with her and why did you decide to have this story over at persecution.org?
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  Well, I am such a fan of Pavi.
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  She's actually been in my home.
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  I want an incredibly brave woman.
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  She is simply a Christian MP for us, a congresswoman, 20-some-year congresswoman.
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  She simply tweeted something about the Finnish church supporting gay pride march, kind of like
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  what is going on?
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  Well, that's all it took for basically the Finnish Justice Department, the head of the Justice
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  Department to go after her and to say that we're going to lock you up for this.
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  And she sent the police to do an investigation, the police look at this and the police, honestly,
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  the European, they can't even figure this out.
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  You're a Christian.
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  What is this all about?
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  We don't understand it, but there's no crime here.
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  It doesn't matter, Justice Department, so-called Justice Department moves ahead to sue her
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  in court, bring charges against her, exonerated in court.
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  The charges are dropped.
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  Guess what happens?
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  Prosecutor, the chief prosecutor from the nation goes after again third time.
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  So look, this strategy is it doesn't matter if you win or lose.
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  And this is a case where radicals have taken the reins of government and are using them
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  for their own purposes, for their own politics, not for justice.
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  And they can punish her, they can grind her into the ground, they can bankrupt her.
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  So that's the point.
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  The process is the punishment.
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  And we see the same thing.
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  The clear message, just like here, the clear message is you better keep your head down,
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  keep your mouth shut if you're a Christian, keep your head down.
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  And above all, be nice.
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  That's your job as a Christian.
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  Be nice and get out of the public square.
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  You don't belong here.
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  Now David, guess where we see that happen overseas?
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  China, Islamist states, no matter one side of their mouth, they say we have religious freedom.
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  On the other hand, they say you're not allowed to share with anybody.
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  You can't share rivals.
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  You can't share your thoughts.
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  You can't share your faith.
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  You just keep it to yourself.
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  And then we have no problem.
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  That's what we're seeing.
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  That's where Christians have to wake up.
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  That's what we're seeing in the West and even in the States.
• 20:15
  Yeah, we are seeing that.
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  And what I've called it, I've called it out, it is communist policy in America when you
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  weaponize the justice system or the FBI or when you put out your ideology, your talking
• 20:30
  points, your marching orders, and then you censor the other side or you suppress or punish
• 20:37
  the opposition, meaning biblical Christians.
• 20:41
  But her case is fascinating because I think they're trying to make an example out of her.
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  Would you agree with that?
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  Absolutely.
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  And they want to just teach Christians what they better not do.
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  And you said something very important, influence.
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  They want to keep Christian influence behind church doors.
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  So we are not out in society in the public square Monday through Saturday.
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  Just yeah, you're okay to go in there on Sunday.
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  But this is what they're trying to do with her.
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  I wrote about this last year and basically the history behind this, I did an article
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  there it is over at Harbinger's Daily.
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  She was just simply talking about marriage between one man and one woman and sharing
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  her views.
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  And she was frustrated, Jeff, I know you know the story because you know her well because
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  her church wasn't talking about it.
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  So she spoke up and I think a lot of people watching this podcast can relate.
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  Their pastors are not addressing these issues.
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  So they feel like they've got to talk about it.
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  Your thoughts on that 100% agree and look, you know, this is in some ways it's a little
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  exciting.
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  And this is what we see with the dictator and the despot overseas.
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  And what I observe overseas is that persecution, if there's any lesson, it's persecution galvanizes
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  the church.
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  It drives out the week.
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  All those who are in church looking for mates or looking for business contacts and there's
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  a whole bunch of that or just to be around nice people, they all go away.
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  And what we desperately need is a people, a Christian people that are truly dependent
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  on the Lord, that are truly connected with them and that's what happens with persecution
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  and where that flows, that's an unstoppable church.
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  That's the church that grows the fastest and that's overseas.
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  So these days are, you know, they really call for people of courage and there's going
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  to be a winnowing of the flock.
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  And so people who don't belong in the church really need to get out.
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  But those who belong, if you are a true Christian, you just have to, you just have to kind
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  of pull up your bridges and say, but this is what the Lord called us to.
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  He said, we're a revolutionary movement.
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  We are unfortunately because we're linked with him.
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  We're a stop sign to the world.
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  And so what do you think, how is the world going to react?
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  The answer is not to be nice.
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  That's not the problem.
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  The problem is we're linked with Christ.
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  We are linked with God and the world has a problem with both, both God and the Son.
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  But we are linked with him.
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  We cannot hide and we dare not hide his message.
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  We are the salt.
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  We need to spread it.
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  Amen.
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  Big amen.
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  Bold face, underlying exclamation point.
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  Yes.
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  Thank you, preach it, brother.
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  I mean, over in Acts chapter five, they were told not to teach in the name of Jesus and
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  they filled Jerusalem with the doctrine, they were accused of intending to bring the blood
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  of Jesus.
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  This man's blood on us.
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  How did Peter and the apostles respond, we must obey God rather than men.
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  So I'm going to give you an opportunity here because we don't have this connection of
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  reality like these Christians that are suffering persecution in other countries are family.
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  There are brothers and sisters.
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  We identify with Christ, these are our family members.
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  We're going to spend eternity with them.
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  So we don't have that connection, but it's already on our shores.
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  We're going to see more of it and want you to share whatever is on your heart and your
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  thoughts to encourage those of us who are, some people are overwhelmed by this, Jeff,
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  by what's happening in North America in the West, especially in the U.S. where Christians
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  are being discriminated against and we're seeing it blatantly, openly, proudly.
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  And I think people need to know how to respond and they need some encouragement because
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  it's going to get worse probably, right?
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  It sure looks like it.
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  Well, let me say anybody who has discouraged, I completely understand, you know, when
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  I landed at the ICC, I opened up the files and started going country by country to understand
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  persecution.
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  Wow.
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  I can't.
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  I can't tell you.
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  I can't tell you what I saw beheadings for her.
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  Now you do that for 20 years and I'll tell you what, you can get discouraged and for
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  a lot of years I was and I say, look, I'm a student of the Scriptures and I trust the
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  Lord.
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  I trust the Scriptures.
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  I'm a student of prophecy.
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  And I say, I know the church wins.
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  I know we win in the end.
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  I know that I know he wins.
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  But how can it be we are we are sheep and we are among wolves and we're torn and shredded
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  and attacked and we're defenseless.
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  And then I began to understand and I saw the sweep of history and I saw the dynamic of
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  persecution and what it does to the church.
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  This I gave you just a piece of it.
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  How it will push out the week, it'll push out the double minded or it'll push out those
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  who are more interested in the world.
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  What we desperately need, what the Lord's doing with our troubles and with our sufferings,
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  each of us, is he's trying to get us to give up on the world and to cling more tightly
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  to him and let his power flow through us.
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  So there's no reason to be discouraged.
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  If you look back at church history, it's this clear as day, nothing can defeat his church.
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  But in the end, nothing can defeat his church.
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  I'm telling you, these are exciting days and it just calls for us to have a heart of
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  courage and that's what he gives us from above.
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  He will put that into our heart and we need to get back to what the church is supposed
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  to be doing and that is evangelism and discipleship.
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  All the churches have lost it.
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  So you call, you starting in your church, don't wait for your pastor.
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  Go out around you are the dead of the dying.
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  You need to bring them the love of Christ and the message of salvation and then teach
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  them how to believe or teach them to go to each others.
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  Amen, brother.
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  We need a better understanding of being ambassadors for Christ and the gospel must go forth and
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  it will and it will and truth wins, Christ wins.
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  He's already victorious and we are here for such a time as this.
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  I appreciate you just sharing that.
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  That must have been really hard to look at these stories of these innocent people that
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  are killed or tortured for their, just for what they believe and what we have, the truth
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  of Jesus Christ and the hope that we have.
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  So great perspective today.
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  I want to encourage people to check out your devotional, The Whisper.
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  It's built around the stories of persecuted believers.
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  That's on Amazon friends.
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  And again, Jeff King's website, Christian persecution, over at persecution.org International
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  Christian concern.
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  I see.
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  See, we appreciate your time.
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  Lord, we'll do this again.
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  Thank you so much.
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  Thank you, David.
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  All right.
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  Friends, share this.
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  Please God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.