Latest / NO FILTER / From reality TV stars to a gang leader – Trump under scrutiny for his pardons and commutations(MP3_160K)

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From reality TV stars to a gang leader – Trump under scrutiny for his pardons and commutations(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Sound and musing his National Enforcement and intelligence correspondent Tom Winter,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: host of The Independent Americans podcast and co founder of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: American Veterans for Ukraine, Paul Reikoff, co host of The
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Majority Report, Emma Vigeland, and senior writer at The Dispatch
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: David Drucker. So, Tom, let's focus on one of these
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: folks first, and just for clarity, we did this story yesterday,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: but so many more pardons came through that we felt
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: it was important to follow up on it again because
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the individuals that Donald Trump added are surprising even for
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And I want you to tell me about
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the man convicted of murder who was running a street
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: gang from prison that Donald Trump commuted his sentence for.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: We're talking about Larry Hoover, and this individual, prosecutors had
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: to actually the visitors tag so when people would go
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: and visit Larry Hoover, who is in state prison on
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  Speaker 2: a murder charge that he ordered a murder is part
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: of his activities associated with this gang, that they actually
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: had to mike the visitors patches. And at one point
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: they actually that were visiting got onto that fact and
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: they had to come up with a better badge. They
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  Speaker 2: would take the audio from that, relay it to another
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  Speaker 2: location in the prison, and then send it back to
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the FBI agents who are in their field office listening
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to these conversations, all in an effort, they said in
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  Speaker 2: a jury later convicted of running this gang for the
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  Speaker 2: course of nearly twenty five years from the early nineteen
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  Speaker 2: seventies until nineteen ninety five, and federal prosecutors in court
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: in the process with Hoover's been trying to get very
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: various clemency filings and various things before the court. Federal
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: prosecutors have said that at different points he was making
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  Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars in profit him and his family
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  Speaker 2: a year from the sale of drugs in the Greater
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  Speaker 2: Chicago area. And this is somebody who's doing this. They again.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: The jury convicted from his jail cell on a state charge.
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  Speaker 2: A federal judge sentenced him to six life sentences, and
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  Speaker 2: because of the security concerns they assigned him to Florence ADX,
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  Speaker 2: home of Joe Harsar. They have Richard Reid the Shoe
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Bomber Max. It's a supermax. He's spent most of his
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: life since the late nineteen nineties ineffectively solitary confinement. And
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: this is somebody who federal prosecutors say is still heralded
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: is the leader of this gang. So it does raise
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  Speaker 2: questions about how we got to this point. There has
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: been an aggressive effort lobbied primarily on behalf of Yay.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: People may know him better as Kanye West. This started
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: in the Oval Office in twenty eighteen when he raised
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Larry Hoover's name in that time when he was spending
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: time with Donald Trump back then, and then there was
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: a benefit concert involving Yay Drake. Those two did not
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: get along in Another individual in the rap community is
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: pretty high profile. J Prince of Rap a lot records
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  Speaker 2: in Houston broker that truce so that they could speak
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  Speaker 2: out on Hoover's.
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  Speaker 3: Why were they speaking out for Hoover?
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  Speaker 2: Well, in Kanye West's case, he said at the Oval
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  Speaker 2: office that this is somebody from Chicago. Obviously Kanye West
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  Speaker 2: is from Chicago. That he could see it, could have
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  Speaker 2: seen himself going down the path of Larry Hoover, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: he believed that Hoover was in the process of speaking
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  Speaker 2: out for his community and trying to do good for
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  Speaker 2: his community. Obviously along the way here Katie. Federal judges
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  Speaker 2: and federal prosecutors and a federal jury have disagreed with
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: that sentiment.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: David, I'm curious to understand the justification. If you're Donald Trump,
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  Speaker 1: you're somebody who ran on a law enforcement, law and
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  Speaker 1: order platform. You're somebody who ran on getting drugs off
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  Speaker 1: the street, talk about the opoi opioid crisis. He's going
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: after fentanel and yet you are commuting the sentence. And
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: just to be clear, he's not leaving prison. He might
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: be transferred to from that supermax back to a state
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  Speaker 1: prison in Illinois for those state charges.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: But to even get involved in a.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Case like that, how does it benefit Donald Trump?
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that there's a rational explanation for
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: how it and if it's Donald Trump. But I think
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: that Donald Trump likes to wield the pardon power because
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: the people that he helps feel indebted to him, The
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: people that he does favors for feel indebted to him.
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  Speaker 4: And he's never experienced any political blowback for being such
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  Speaker 4: an aggressive user of the constitutional pardon power. Right, I mean,
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  Speaker 4: his numbers fluctuate as the economy or perception of how
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: the economy is doing fluctuates. Voters have never really voiced
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: any problem in a measurable way that's going to matter
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  Speaker 4: to him over his use of the pardon power. Republican
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  Speaker 4: voters certainly don't care. And it's his way I think of.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's his way of using unilateral power in
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  Speaker 4: order to acquire more supporters. It's something he loves doing,
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  Speaker 4: whether it's tariffs or executive orders, and this is just
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  Speaker 4: an extension of that.
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  Speaker 1: Are they never going to care no matter what, David,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I mean a lot of tax you don't.
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  Speaker 3: Want to correction here?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we talk about this all the time.
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  Speaker 1: I wonder if there is a if there is ever
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  Speaker 1: if he ever sends any tention any any gosh Taken
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  Speaker 1: all together, I'm not so.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Sure there's how I feel about this any longer.
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  Speaker 4: Look, I think with some Republican voters and with some
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: Republican politicians, there's always a bit of uneasiness from time
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: to time with certain things Donald Trump does and says.
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  Speaker 4: But I think so much of this is baked into
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  Speaker 4: the cake in terms of how voters look at him.
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  Speaker 4: He did not campaign as being somebody who was not
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  Speaker 4: going to do this sort of thing. He did it before,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: and he said he was going to do more of it,
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  Speaker 4: and they elected him anyway, and so there is no
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  Speaker 4: shock value, and his support within the Republican Party remains
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  Speaker 4: extremely strong despite this and other issues related to corrupt
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  Speaker 4: practices that we could talk about out and so, sure,
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: could people's opinions changed. They could. I will say though,
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  Speaker 4: that after almost a decade of covering Donald Trump as
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  Speaker 4: a politician, nothing at least with Republican voters has ever changed,
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  Speaker 4: no matter what he's ever done and ever said.
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  Speaker 3: It's true, it's an emotional response to him.
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  Speaker 1: It broke in twenty twenty, but it certainly came back
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  Speaker 1: with a fury in twenty twenty four.
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  Speaker 3: Let's talk about another one of the examples here.
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  Speaker 1: This is Trump pardoning an army officer who refused to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: follow COVID safety orders.
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  Speaker 3: Paul.
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  Speaker 5: So, they're all bad and dangerous, but I think the
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: ones around the military are especially bad and dangerous, because
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  Speaker 5: what Trump is saying is you don't have to follow
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  Speaker 5: military law, you don't have to follow orders. The example
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  Speaker 5: you're talking about is Lieutenant Mark Boshaw, who said he
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  Speaker 5: wasn't going to follow COVID nineteen protocols Now no mater.
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  Speaker 5: How do you feel about COVID nineteen protocols. They were
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  Speaker 5: law at the time, they were direct orders at the time,
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  Speaker 5: and lieutenant refused him. So Trump has now pardoned him.
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  Speaker 5: There's also Army sergeant Barol Lamont Smith who stole and
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  Speaker 5: sold thousands of military computers, just right out in the open.
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  Speaker 5: FBI found him, tried him, convicted him. He admitted it.
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  Speaker 5: And Trump is saying he's off the hook too. So
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  Speaker 5: it's a really dangerous president that he's sending in a
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  Speaker 5: message he's sending to the military, you don't have to
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  Speaker 5: follow orders, you don't have to follow the rules. You
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: don't have to follow the law. We know he says
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: that often, and he celebrates people who break the rules
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: and go around the law. But it's especially dangerous in
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  Speaker 5: the military, where we need good order and discipline.
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  Speaker 1: Listen, all presidents pardon. All presidents have the authority to pardon.
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  Speaker 1: All presidents in modern history have used the power of
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  Speaker 1: the pardon. Usually that comes at the end of a
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  Speaker 1: term emma, usually to the end of the term. But
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  Speaker 1: the fact that this is coming at the beginning of
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  Speaker 1: his term. Remember he started on day one by pardoning
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  Speaker 1: all of the January sixth protesters and rioters who were convicted,
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  Speaker 1: including the very very very violent ones. The fact that
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: he's doing it so early does make you ask the question,
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  Speaker 1: is he sending a message to others, Hey, listen, if
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: you want something, just donate to a super pack, or
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: be really vocal about me, Be really vocal about all
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  Speaker 1: the good that I'm doing. Give me a reason to
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  Speaker 1: help you by helping me.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's absolutely right.
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  Speaker 6: And it's so funny because you don't really hear him
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  Speaker 6: talking about draining the swamp too much anymore, because he
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  Speaker 6: has fully embraced the swamp down in Washington. It's also
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: quite funny that he tries to present himself as somebody
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  Speaker 6: who's interested in serious criminal justice reform, when, as you
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  Speaker 6: point out, it's mostly about flattering his buddies or trying
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: to get something in exchange, like the tariff policy was.
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  Speaker 6: It's about consolidating his power and also having all of
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: the countries come to him to make a deal so
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  Speaker 6: he can be to borrow from George W. Bush, the
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: decider in these instances. But the Trump administration is a
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: mass incarceration administration, and that should not go unsaid when
• 8:57
  Speaker 6: he's trying to position himself as anything but that. Pam
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: Bondi is a former lobbyist for a private prison company,
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: Tom Holman, his borders are is also heavily involved in
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  Speaker 6: private prisons financially. And so this is not an administration
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  Speaker 6: that actually wants to take on criminal justice reform. They
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: are warehousing immigrants as we speak, without due process.
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  Speaker 3: As you see.
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  Speaker 6: Down in Texas detention facilities, people who are being held
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: there spelling out sos in the prison yard so that
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  Speaker 6: people pay attention to them. The only reason that Trump
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: is engaging in this is for personal flattery, for personal corruption,
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  Speaker 6: and that's how I think you have to view his
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: entire second go around as president.
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  Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that's been surprising, I mean
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  Speaker 1: I say surprising is if I haven't been following this
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  Speaker 1: for ten.
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  Speaker 3: Years, but I guess still surprising.
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  Speaker 1: It's just the how out in.
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  Speaker 3: The open it all is.
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  Speaker 1: And when you heard the pardons are Alice Murray Johnson
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  Speaker 1: talking today, I know they're going to use their voices
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  Speaker 1: and their platform to uplift the president's agenda.
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  Speaker 3: Is that the strategy make it out in the.
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  Speaker 1: Open, act like it's just a normal thing to do, David,
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  Speaker 1: and no one's going to question it.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if it's a strategy, but I
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  Speaker 4: think what Donald Trump has learned over the past ten
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: years is that there's little he can do that costs
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: him political support. I mean, he mismanaged COVID and that
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: cost him reelection. He fomented a riot at the Capitol
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: and remained at the top of the Republican Party and
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: was re elected in twenty twenty four. So you tell
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  Speaker 4: me why anything could make him think twice. And I
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: suppose if he was running for reelection, maybe that would
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: make him think twice. There are things, you know, he
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: would stop short of doing in his first term because
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: he was advised that it might hamper his twenty twenty reelection.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: With re election off the table and having done so
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: well politically, after everything we could list that voters we
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: might think might object to. You know, if I'm Donald Trump,
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: nothing would really, nothing would really make me think twice
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: from a political standpoint.