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Feminist Movie Friday: Black Christmas · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha and welcome to stuff.
0:08
Speaker 1: I never told your production of I Heart Radio, so
0:18
Speaker 1: quick sugar warning for this one. We are gonna be
0:21
Speaker 1: talking about some violence, um, some trauma, some sexual assaults,
0:26
Speaker 1: some sexual violence issues. We're not going to go too
0:30
Speaker 1: deeply in them, but they are kind of part of
0:33
Speaker 1: the plots of the movies we're talking about today. So
0:37
Speaker 1: if that is not something that you're in a good
0:40
Speaker 1: space for our want to hear right now, totally get
0:43
Speaker 1: you um and come back later, or you know, don't
0:47
Speaker 1: if it's it's never gonna be your thing, that's totally cool.
0:50
Speaker 1: So yes, and our ongoing tradition of choosing unconventional holiday movies.
0:58
Speaker 1: In December for our feminist movie Fridays, we're doing a
1:01
Speaker 1: double feature on Black Christmas, which I actually didn't know
1:06
Speaker 1: there was another. Yeah, we could have done a triple feature.
1:10
Speaker 1: I don't know if we could have handled it. I
1:11
Speaker 1: don't think I would have been ready for that. No,
1:14
Speaker 1: but I had no idea there was another one out there. Um,
1:17
Speaker 1: So we're doing the the original and then twenty nineteen one.
1:20
Speaker 1: So the original one in the newest one, right, the
1:23
Speaker 1: one in the middle we're skipping. I gave a little
1:26
Speaker 1: bit of a synopsis in my in my run through perfect,
1:29
Speaker 1: I read about it because people were comparing kind of
1:32
Speaker 1: the differences in the way they handle some of these
1:34
Speaker 1: issues and all three of them. So I did read
1:36
Speaker 1: about it a little bit, so we'll talk about it.
1:39
Speaker 1: I saw the original Black Christmas when I was in college,
1:41
Speaker 1: I think, and I found it highly disturbing. I still
1:45
Speaker 1: found it pretty disturbing. On rewatch, it wasn't as disturbing,
1:48
Speaker 1: but I think this time I knew more of what
1:49
Speaker 1: I was going to get into, whereas the first time,
1:52
Speaker 1: I don't think I expected a lot of what happened
1:55
Speaker 1: in that movie. Yeah, first time from me. For both
1:58
Speaker 1: of those, I've never watched and one I don't think
2:01
Speaker 1: I was aware of it until a year or two ago,
2:03
Speaker 1: and we had a listeners like, you should watch Black Christmas,
2:06
Speaker 1: the newer version, especially when we were talking about all
2:09
Speaker 1: of the travesties that were happening under the last administration,
2:13
Speaker 1: including Kavanaugh and all of that, which is fitting for
2:15
Speaker 1: the first movie as well as the second movie. But
2:18
Speaker 1: I found that interesting. It was a suggestion. We were like, Okay,
2:22
Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's do it. It's out on HBO Max.
2:26
Speaker 1: The newest version of the other version is on Peacock.
2:29
Speaker 1: If that's so interesting. You are sponsors currently, No, neither,
2:34
Speaker 1: none of them. But if you were trying to find
2:35
Speaker 1: this movie. Yeah, for me, I don't know what it is.
2:38
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because I'm just agitated, it's
2:41
Speaker 1: that time of year or what um, but I'm like
2:44
Speaker 1: at some points, and I've gotten to this in several movies,
2:47
Speaker 1: and like thriller situations or moments of like, oh, don't
2:51
Speaker 1: go in there, You're gonna die, I'm like, yeah, you
2:53
Speaker 1: deserve to die. I definitely had a couple of moments
2:55
Speaker 1: with them like yeah, you deserve to die. That's on you.
2:58
Speaker 1: I have no sympathy up there, really, but yes, it was.
3:01
Speaker 1: The first one was definitely a lot more disturbing to
3:03
Speaker 1: me than the second one and a little more cohesive.
3:06
Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that later. Yeah, this was my
3:08
Speaker 1: first time watching the second one, and I'm actually glad,
3:12
Speaker 1: I kind of as I always I always do this,
3:15
Speaker 1: I researched it before I watch it. I'm actually glad
3:18
Speaker 1: I did this for that one. Although alright, spoiler alert,
3:21
Speaker 1: I guess if if you want to see that when
3:23
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it spoiler, we are going to be
3:26
Speaker 1: talking about it, talk with the whole thing. Yeah, yeah,
3:29
Speaker 1: I did read. I did a lot of reading before
3:31
Speaker 1: I watched the new one, so I knew it was
3:34
Speaker 1: all about which I actually think was great. But I
3:36
Speaker 1: somehow either I misread something, or somebody was being satirical
3:41
Speaker 1: and I misinterpreted it, or they were incorrect. They said
3:44
Speaker 1: hardly anyone died in the in the new one, so yes.
3:49
Speaker 1: So I was watching it like, oh, this is kind
3:51
Speaker 1: of nice to know, like everyone's going to be fine,
3:54
Speaker 1: and then everyone very much was not fine, and it
3:58
Speaker 1: kept happening to the point of saying, wait, immediately the
4:04
Speaker 1: beginning scene a death. I know, the whole movie. I
4:08
Speaker 1: was just getting more and more confused and thinking, maybe
4:13
Speaker 1: it's all what is this? I have been lied to
4:18
Speaker 1: you had you have been to Yes, it made the
4:22
Speaker 1: It was an interesting viewing experience for sure. Okay, but
4:26
Speaker 1: let's start with um the old one. The original Black
4:30
Speaker 1: Christmas is in nineteen seventy four Canadian slasher movie produced
4:33
Speaker 1: and directed by Bob Clark of a Christmas story and
4:37
Speaker 1: written by A. Roy Moore. Clark wanted to portray a
4:41
Speaker 1: smarter young adults compared to what was often the norm
4:44
Speaker 1: and US horror movies, saying, quote, college students, even in
4:47
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four are astute people. They are not fools.
4:51
Speaker 1: It's not all bikinis, beach blankets and bingo. Because he
4:57
Speaker 1: also the writer of Porkies, which is exactly that that
5:01
Speaker 1: stereotypy talking about. I did not know that. Okay, so
5:08
Speaker 1: I ponder you watched this movie. I found it to
5:10
Speaker 1: be like the most seventies. It was originally called Silent Night,
5:14
Speaker 1: Evil Night in the US to avoid concerns that it
5:17
Speaker 1: was a black sportation film. It stars Margot Kidder, Olivia Hussey,
5:22
Speaker 1: who allegedly accepted the role because of a psychic um,
5:25
Speaker 1: Andrea Martin, Lynn Griffin, Marian wabin Here Delay, and John Saxon.
5:31
Speaker 1: It is loosely based on the urban legend of the
5:33
Speaker 1: babysitter and the Man upstairs. You know the call is
5:35
Speaker 1: coming from inside the house, that thing. It's also rumored
5:38
Speaker 1: to have been inspired by a series of murders around
5:41
Speaker 1: Montreal that took place during the holiday season in nineteen
5:45
Speaker 1: forty three, and unfortunately, the television premiere in Night was
5:49
Speaker 1: marred by a double murder at a Florida sorority house.
5:53
Speaker 1: Yeah so apparently, Yeah, the murders are talking about is
5:56
Speaker 1: the Bundey murders that happened, which is a fairly big
5:58
Speaker 1: case because I was actually survivor in that case. But also,
6:02
Speaker 1: just for those who don't know, Margot Kedder is lowest
6:05
Speaker 1: in the Superman uh and all of the probably the
6:08
Speaker 1: more successful of Superman's with Christopher Reeves and Andrea Martin
6:14
Speaker 1: is the aunt from my Big Fact Week wedding. I
6:17
Speaker 1: love her seeing her in this role. What I just
6:21
Speaker 1: want to put that out there. Okay, interesting. So The
6:26
Speaker 1: Blood follows a group of sorority girls and their drunk
6:28
Speaker 1: sorority house mother. Unbeknownst to them, a mysterious man climbs
6:32
Speaker 1: into the attic while they're having a Christmas party. Um.
6:35
Speaker 1: The man calls and Jess, one of the sorority girls,
6:38
Speaker 1: answers and here's strange noises and obscene words on the
6:42
Speaker 1: other end. She gathers the other sotrity girls in the
6:45
Speaker 1: house around the phone to listen, um, and one of
6:48
Speaker 1: them insults the man who promises to kill her. One
6:52
Speaker 1: of the other girls. Claire worries that the man may
6:54
Speaker 1: be dangerous and goes to bed. The killer strangles her
6:58
Speaker 1: and drags her body to the attic. When her father, Mr.
7:02
Speaker 1: Harrison arrives to pick her up in the morning, she's
7:04
Speaker 1: nowhere to be found, so he reports her missing to
7:07
Speaker 1: the police, only to discover another girl recently went missing
7:10
Speaker 1: when walking home. Meanwhile, Jess tells her boyfriend that she
7:15
Speaker 1: is pregnant and intends to get an abortion. This infuriates him,
7:20
Speaker 1: and Jess convinces him that they will discuss it later.
7:23
Speaker 1: Determined to find his daughter and the missing girl, Mr
7:26
Speaker 1: Harrison returns to the sorority house and helps the girls
7:28
Speaker 1: there um put one of their drunk sisters to bed
7:31
Speaker 1: barb At the same time, the house mother finds Claire's
7:34
Speaker 1: body in the attic. The man kills her by throwing
7:37
Speaker 1: a hook in her face and hanging her. The missing
7:41
Speaker 1: girl's body is found disfigured in the park at the
7:46
Speaker 1: house that Jess gets another obscene phone call and decides
7:48
Speaker 1: to file a police report. Her boyfriend arrives and attempts
7:52
Speaker 1: to convince her that they should get married. She refuses
7:55
Speaker 1: and tells him again she is planning to get an abortion.
7:58
Speaker 1: He leaves in a huff. Jestice the police survived to
8:00
Speaker 1: bug the phone line. After the police leave, the killer
8:04
Speaker 1: murders the drunk sister with a glass figuring of a unicorn,
8:07
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the ultimate symbols of innocence of young girls.
8:11
Speaker 1: Jess picks up another call from the killer, who repeats
8:14
Speaker 1: the conversation she had with her boyfriend, scaring her because
8:17
Speaker 1: it's implying he's nearby. But Lieutenant Fuller, who is in
8:21
Speaker 1: charge of watching the phone line, calls to tell her
8:23
Speaker 1: they failed at tracing the call, but that he suspects
8:26
Speaker 1: it could be her boyfriend Peter behind it. Jess does
8:30
Speaker 1: not agree. Another girl is murdered. The killer calls again
8:35
Speaker 1: and tells just a story about two children named Agnes
8:38
Speaker 1: and Billy who did something wrong. The police chase the
8:41
Speaker 1: call and tell Jess to leave immediately because it is
8:43
Speaker 1: coming from inside the house. Jess goes to check on
8:48
Speaker 1: the other occuptions of the house. She doesn't want to
8:49
Speaker 1: leave them behind um, where she finds two bodies. The
8:53
Speaker 1: killer attacks her and just please to the seller. Peter
8:57
Speaker 1: shows up outside the window, breaking the glass again to
9:00
Speaker 1: the basement. The police show up to find Jess screaming
9:03
Speaker 1: and barely conscious, with Peter kind of bloody next to her,
9:07
Speaker 1: and and just just seems like so out of it.
9:11
Speaker 1: The police believe that Peter is the culprit, so they
9:15
Speaker 1: are like, okay, this is done. They put just to
9:18
Speaker 1: bed with a cop standing outside. But we hear the
9:21
Speaker 1: voice of the killer coming from the attic, implying it
9:24
Speaker 1: wasn't Peter, and the killer is still alive and still there.
9:28
Speaker 1: The bodies of the house mother and Claire are in
9:30
Speaker 1: the attic, yet to be found, and the phone rings
9:34
Speaker 1: end of movie. It's not a really ambiguous ending sequel.
9:40
Speaker 1: I did wonder that. I don't think there's a sequel.
9:43
Speaker 1: There's been. Yeah, like the from what I understand, the
9:46
Speaker 1: one we're not really going to be talking about, kind
9:49
Speaker 1: of digs into the killer more and why he is
9:55
Speaker 1: where he is. But yeah, I don't think there was
9:58
Speaker 1: ever a sequel. And this is kind of notorious or
10:00
Speaker 1: having like one of these the most ambiguous endings ever. Right, Okay,
10:05
Speaker 1: you never see his face. Yeah, you don't know if
10:08
Speaker 1: she's going to survive. It is it is kind of
10:13
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this it is very kind
10:14
Speaker 1: of frustrating and a little funny. It's like, the bodies
10:18
Speaker 1: are right there, right where he is, right in the attic.
10:23
Speaker 1: The police clearly have not done a good job start.
10:28
Speaker 1: This is the massive bound of like, no one's seen
10:30
Speaker 1: this body, No one's going to check on it, No
10:32
Speaker 1: one's gonna do a search of the house. No. Oh cool.
10:35
Speaker 1: Specially after she found two bodies in there. I would
10:38
Speaker 1: think you would be, like, I wonder if the other
10:41
Speaker 1: bodies are also in here, right, although one of them
10:46
Speaker 1: they don't know he's dead. The house mother, that's true.
10:49
Speaker 1: That's true, because she was like leaving for a trip, right,
10:52
Speaker 1: she had already left. Yes, yes, yes, that is true.
11:09
Speaker 1: So when this movie first got released, it got mixed reviews,
11:12
Speaker 1: but has since been reappraised, and then it definitely has
11:15
Speaker 1: a cult following. Um it's been praised for the influence
11:18
Speaker 1: it had on John Carpet's nine film The Thing and
11:21
Speaker 1: the film Halloween, and it's thought to be one of
11:24
Speaker 1: the first slasher movies and one of the first examples
11:27
Speaker 1: of the Final Girl and one of the best horror
11:29
Speaker 1: movies of all time. So that's quite a shift from
11:31
Speaker 1: like do now people like one of the nurst Um,
11:35
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to say this because it made
11:36
Speaker 1: me laugh. A season's Grievings edition was later released. Oh yeah,
11:42
Speaker 1: here are sampling of some of the negative reviews it
11:44
Speaker 1: got when it came out. It is notable only for
11:47
Speaker 1: indicating the kind of junk rolls that talented actresses are
11:50
Speaker 1: forced to play in the movies. And that's from the
11:52
Speaker 1: Chicago Trabboon and quote before it maddening lely overreaches in
11:57
Speaker 1: a gratuitously evasive ending. Black Christmas, opening today at selected
12:01
Speaker 1: theaters is a smart, stylish Canadian made a little horror
12:04
Speaker 1: picture that is completely diverting. It may well be that
12:08
Speaker 1: it makers simply couldn't figure out how to end it.
12:11
Speaker 1: And that's from the Los Angeles Times. Um, but yeah,
12:14
Speaker 1: people are frustrated with me. And then they were like, wait, however,
12:21
Speaker 1: it has yes spawned some remakes since then. Yeah, so
12:26
Speaker 1: we decided to compare it to the twenty nineteen version
12:29
Speaker 1: of Black Christmas, which uh is a bit of an
12:32
Speaker 1: on the nose take about woke culture. But there was
12:35
Speaker 1: a previous remake that was made in two thousand seven,
12:38
Speaker 1: which Bob Clark did executive produce. And uh, it followed
12:42
Speaker 1: along the theory of the killers being Agnes and Billy
12:45
Speaker 1: who was abused by his mother by their mother. Um.
12:48
Speaker 1: But again, yes, for the twenty nine team movie, we
12:50
Speaker 1: have a different take with a bit more supernatural element
12:53
Speaker 1: to it. And yeah, the two thousand seven is loosely
12:55
Speaker 1: also based on the original. That's what they say, So
12:59
Speaker 1: they take the whole story, made it their own. Um,
13:02
Speaker 1: but it did have some horrifying abuse segues between nineteen
13:07
Speaker 1: movie was cast and planned. Soon after, a Blumhouse Productions
13:10
Speaker 1: founder made this comment, Uh, there are not a lot
13:13
Speaker 1: of female directors period, even less who are inclined to
13:16
Speaker 1: do horror. So this was his idea of like why
13:21
Speaker 1: this was his answer to why he doesn't have a
13:23
Speaker 1: lot of female directors as a part of his company
13:26
Speaker 1: or that is a part of any of the movie making.
13:28
Speaker 1: And of course that got a lot of backlash, and
13:31
Speaker 1: so soon after he decided to go to this route, which,
13:35
Speaker 1: by the way, again it's a rule on the nose,
13:37
Speaker 1: cautionary tale, I guess, or like kind of a revenge
13:40
Speaker 1: movie for all of the sexism that exists. But we'll
13:44
Speaker 1: talk about that a minute. So when you look at
13:46
Speaker 1: the list of big conchos, though in the movie credits
13:49
Speaker 1: it still very male driven, very like I was waiting
13:53
Speaker 1: for any other female names. There weren't many, So okay.
13:59
Speaker 1: So the philm most directed by Sofia to Call, and
14:01
Speaker 1: it was written by to Call an April Wolf, and
14:04
Speaker 1: they took this movie in a new script and brought
14:07
Speaker 1: on a new set of sorority sisters from m K
14:10
Speaker 1: MoU Kappa Epsilon. I believe it's a made up sorority
14:13
Speaker 1: and we have Riley Stone played by Image and Poots,
14:17
Speaker 1: Chris played by Alice Shannon, Marty played by Lily Donohue,
14:21
Speaker 1: Jesse played by Brittany O'Grady, Helena played by Madeline Adams,
14:25
Speaker 1: and Franz played by Natalie Morris. Now we're really going
14:28
Speaker 1: to be more so concentrating on Riley and Chris, so
14:31
Speaker 1: don't get too caught up in all of these because
14:33
Speaker 1: the rest die spoiler alert, Yeah to know. So we
14:44
Speaker 1: begun the movie with the opening scene following a young
14:48
Speaker 1: sorority girl getting ready to go home during Christmas break,
14:51
Speaker 1: but we have that every moment of watching her being
14:54
Speaker 1: followed by a man who seems a bit too close
14:57
Speaker 1: at the same time, she's receiving messages from a profile
15:00
Speaker 1: all of the founder of Hawthorne College, Calvin Hawthorne, which
15:03
Speaker 1: is where they're at, who we quickly realize as it
15:07
Speaker 1: begins with a quote from him, is a sexist jerk,
15:10
Speaker 1: and much like many other horror movies. After an intense
15:13
Speaker 1: cat and mouse chasing, she's immediately murdered by a hooded
15:18
Speaker 1: mask figure with an icicle. That's always been a thing.
15:21
Speaker 1: I'm like, there you go, the murder, the murder. A
15:25
Speaker 1: few years later we see the main ladies of the movie,
15:28
Speaker 1: but there is a nice commodity among the women preparing
15:32
Speaker 1: for the holiday festivities and just overall friendship and just
15:35
Speaker 1: how I kind of talked about in the game that
15:37
Speaker 1: I really love. Uh, there's this like you can tell
15:41
Speaker 1: women wrote this, and the fact that they're like, we
15:43
Speaker 1: actually like our female friends. I don't know where this
15:46
Speaker 1: therety came from. That we don't we're all competing with
15:49
Speaker 1: each other. So it was really nice to see because
15:51
Speaker 1: immediately when you think of sorority culture, kind of like
15:54
Speaker 1: the old version of Black Christmas, they had two women
15:57
Speaker 1: pen like having an argument with each other and and
16:00
Speaker 1: not liking each other's lifestyles essentially, but you don't really
16:03
Speaker 1: have that in this one, so that's kind of nice
16:06
Speaker 1: to see Um. But there is a dark cloud that
16:09
Speaker 1: seems to be looming over Riley, who we know has
16:12
Speaker 1: lost both her parents and doesn't want to participate in
16:16
Speaker 1: the yearly holiday singing, which she did like the year
16:19
Speaker 1: before and apparently was really good at it. We move
16:21
Speaker 1: on to see them in class, where we see Carrie
16:24
Speaker 1: Elwiz Princess Bride fame. Yes, I had a huge crush
16:28
Speaker 1: on him Um playing Professor Gilson, who seems to be
16:32
Speaker 1: heavily implying that women could not be uplifted without first
16:36
Speaker 1: having men being uplifted, and if men were to fall
16:39
Speaker 1: from their power structure, it would only make the whole
16:41
Speaker 1: system fill and destroy everything. Uh. There is a bit
16:45
Speaker 1: of an intense back and forth where Raleigh is singled
16:48
Speaker 1: out and we find out that there's a petition against
16:50
Speaker 1: the Professor Gilson for his misogynistic and sexist teaching and
16:54
Speaker 1: overall attitudes towards the students, led by her sorority sister
16:57
Speaker 1: and friend Chris, Yes, the other one that's to survives
17:01
Speaker 1: spoiler alert. So the night is the night of the
17:04
Speaker 1: Big event before Christmas break, and the fraternity hosting the
17:07
Speaker 1: event is riddled with toxic fraternity traits, including rape and
17:11
Speaker 1: overall disgusting behaviors. Riley prevents a sexual assault from happening
17:15
Speaker 1: to a sister, in which we hear the dude calling
17:18
Speaker 1: them bitches and teases of course um. She also witnesses
17:22
Speaker 1: some type of ceremony where the bust of the founder,
17:25
Speaker 1: which was removed due to a protest led by Chris,
17:28
Speaker 1: is crying black goo, and all the people are in
17:31
Speaker 1: robes and masks, and yes, this is a secret ceremony, y'all.
17:35
Speaker 1: Due to the sister being either drunk or drunk the
17:37
Speaker 1: one she helped and prevented being assaulted, or both, she
17:41
Speaker 1: goes home. Riley has to take her place in this
17:44
Speaker 1: little musical number, and it soon revealed that Riley had
17:47
Speaker 1: been drugged and raped by a former member of that frat,
17:50
Speaker 1: and though she reported it, they didn't afford due to
17:53
Speaker 1: not believing her. Of course not. And of course he's
17:56
Speaker 1: president for that night though he had already graduated, and
18:00
Speaker 1: he's welcome back with open arms, and the entire song
18:03
Speaker 1: which is at the end credit By the way, if
18:05
Speaker 1: you needed a remastered version, it's pretty much talking about
18:08
Speaker 1: that assault and the toxic culture of the frat makes
18:11
Speaker 1: them very angry, the frat and all these things um
18:16
Speaker 1: and she gets her courage and faces off with him
18:18
Speaker 1: during this performance, again calling out the rape culture and
18:21
Speaker 1: about the incident, and then they run back to the
18:23
Speaker 1: story house and soon after the girls start disappearing, and
18:28
Speaker 1: even though Riley is concerned, no one seems to believe her.
18:32
Speaker 1: No one, no one including her own housemates. I'm still
18:36
Speaker 1: baffled by this. And she makes a report, but the
18:40
Speaker 1: campus security seems skeptical, saying nine times out of ten
18:43
Speaker 1: girls are just off with their boyfriends, which by the way,
18:46
Speaker 1: is to throw back to the nineteen four version, and
18:48
Speaker 1: then even comes out with a classic line boys will
18:51
Speaker 1: be and he off, so you know. She tries to
18:55
Speaker 1: investigate the frat house for her friend, but it's confronted
18:58
Speaker 1: by the professor and she runs away after it's being
19:01
Speaker 1: revealed that their performance went viral, which starts an argument
19:05
Speaker 1: between Chris and Riley where it was revealed that all
19:07
Speaker 1: the ladies are getting weird threatening d M from this
19:11
Speaker 1: Calvin Hawthorne. We then see the ultimate fight scene. It
19:15
Speaker 1: was two more of the sisters are killed, as well
19:17
Speaker 1: as one of the sister's boyfriend, who seems to be
19:20
Speaker 1: having headaches and acting unlike himself and very masculine. By
19:23
Speaker 1: the way, this is why he died. He's like, I
19:25
Speaker 1: must protect the people. I am a man. Yes. Really.
19:29
Speaker 1: They're killed by the same hood and massed individual who
19:32
Speaker 1: for some reason now has a bow and arrow. Riley
19:35
Speaker 1: and Chris are able to kill their assailant, only to
19:37
Speaker 1: find another one coming at them. Something to note, Riley
19:40
Speaker 1: kills one of them with a key trick so many
19:42
Speaker 1: women use went in fear while walking alone and parking
19:45
Speaker 1: lots or the such. I thought that was a nice touch.
19:49
Speaker 1: Turns out one of the people killed as the dude
19:51
Speaker 1: Riley saw getting initiated into that secret ceremony, and he
19:55
Speaker 1: seemed possessed, as in he didn't bleed blood but black goo.
19:59
Speaker 1: He year, we see Riley and Chris argue again, Riley
20:02
Speaker 1: taking things into her own hands to go after the
20:04
Speaker 1: frat while Chris tries to leave but comes up on
20:07
Speaker 1: another sorority house that's also being attacked. She helps them
20:10
Speaker 1: escape from the same mask hooded monsters. And by the way,
20:14
Speaker 1: this original, this new Sorority is the original sisters for
20:19
Speaker 1: the first person that died in the Movie's happening Yeah,
20:23
Speaker 1: and I was like, what's happening. Oh, that's what's happened.
20:27
Speaker 1: So coming back to Riley, she and her pink shovel
20:30
Speaker 1: that she brought from her home or heading to the frat,
20:33
Speaker 1: running to Crush Landon, who we met earlier, who insists
20:36
Speaker 1: on helping her, and then when she arrives at the fraternity,
20:39
Speaker 1: she finds Helena, who she thought was dead and she
20:42
Speaker 1: was trying to report as missing, but seemed to have
20:44
Speaker 1: been kidnapped by the frat. At that point, Riley is
20:47
Speaker 1: knocked out but was able to see Helena smile as
20:50
Speaker 1: she goes into unconsciousness at Row. When she wakes up,
20:53
Speaker 1: she's tied up at the same secret place where she
20:55
Speaker 1: saw the ceremony take place and is surrounded by others
20:58
Speaker 1: and hoods and masks and Landon, who also puts on
21:01
Speaker 1: a hood and mask. The Crush you came with her,
21:04
Speaker 1: but he's in a trance, and we learned that the
21:05
Speaker 1: frat has superpowers to turn all the men into alpha's
21:09
Speaker 1: and possessing them through Google. Through the Google misogynistic Hawthorne,
21:14
Speaker 1: and they're all being led by Professor Gilson and her
21:17
Speaker 1: rapist who's determined to dominate her and punish her for
21:20
Speaker 1: dragging his name through the mud. He says, Helena is
21:23
Speaker 1: trying to make her see that this is natural and
21:26
Speaker 1: submission and compliance were the only way to make the
21:28
Speaker 1: world better. But then she dies. She dies violently at
21:31
Speaker 1: the hands of the supernaturally strong brothers. Yeah, so we'll see.
21:35
Speaker 1: Riley says that she will comply only to attack Brian,
21:38
Speaker 1: the rapists, who attempts to murder her. But Chris and
21:41
Speaker 1: the other ladies of the sorority come through, fighting again
21:44
Speaker 1: with bows and arrows and then anything else they can find,
21:47
Speaker 1: and apparently one of them is really good with it,
21:49
Speaker 1: so hey, Riley is able to fight off Brian, break
21:52
Speaker 1: the bus, and fight against the rest of the frat.
21:55
Speaker 1: Chris then lights the professor on fire, and the ladies
21:57
Speaker 1: and Landed, who is no longer possessed, run out, locked
22:01
Speaker 1: the rest of the fat boys to burn to death. Yes,
22:04
Speaker 1: like the original, there were aspects of looking at the
22:07
Speaker 1: issues at hand, taking apart some of the societal implications
22:11
Speaker 1: of that time. Again, it may be a little too
22:14
Speaker 1: heavy handed. Maybe I'm just being cynical critique everybody had,
22:19
Speaker 1: and that's why that's why I say I'm glad I
22:21
Speaker 1: knew that going in, because I actually think it helped
22:23
Speaker 1: me enjoy it more because I knew, like literally everything
22:27
Speaker 1: I read an it's really heavy handed, Yeah, it really was.
22:33
Speaker 1: I think the conversation of smashing white supremacy and the
22:36
Speaker 1: misogynies sexism on campus was a key point throughout the movie,
22:40
Speaker 1: and the subject of toxic fraternity culture during a time
22:43
Speaker 1: as the Kavanaugh confirmation, which was headlines at that point
22:46
Speaker 1: and very familiar to many who have been in this
22:49
Speaker 1: situation or like around that situation, and we've talked about it,
22:53
Speaker 1: and it still talked about like all of that toxicity
22:56
Speaker 1: within specifically those types of fraternities. Now again, I think
23:01
Speaker 1: there was so much they're trying to crampack into a
23:05
Speaker 1: movie like this, and it was hard to get at
23:10
Speaker 1: any point where it didn't feel like it was beating
23:12
Speaker 1: you over the head. And I say this in that
23:16
Speaker 1: they almost villainized Chris, who is one of the few
23:20
Speaker 1: women of color in this movie, and to have her
23:23
Speaker 1: being like the angry person of color seems so tropish.
23:28
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, y'all couldn't pick any No, but okay,
23:33
Speaker 1: it seemed very much white feminist take to this person
23:38
Speaker 1: of color. I'm pointing to myself now, but maybe I'm
23:41
Speaker 1: just being too cynical. Again. However, Yeah, the majority of critics,
23:45
Speaker 1: as you were saying, yeah, they weren't great. They were not.
23:50
Speaker 1: They was not The criticisms were not great. So many
23:54
Speaker 1: reviews were mixed, as the script seemed to have a
23:57
Speaker 1: great idea but not so great execution. That was one
24:00
Speaker 1: of the thoughts from one reviewer, in part to call
24:03
Speaker 1: wanted to keep the rating PG thirteen to be more
24:06
Speaker 1: accessible for a younger crowd, but may have lost some
24:09
Speaker 1: of the depth of the movie as it passed through
24:11
Speaker 1: it without too many memorable moments in it. And they
24:14
Speaker 1: did talk about like the deaths were so like the
24:16
Speaker 1: characters were so underdeveloped that it didn't really affect us
24:20
Speaker 1: when people died, which I will say one of my
24:23
Speaker 1: biggest concern was I didn't want Chris to die, of
24:26
Speaker 1: course not. I also didn't want the cat to die, which,
24:29
Speaker 1: by the way, there's a cat in both this twenty
24:31
Speaker 1: nineteen version and the nineteen seventy four version that does
24:34
Speaker 1: push the plot along. That's how two of the characters died.
24:38
Speaker 1: Essentially it was because of the cat. I feel like
24:42
Speaker 1: that was purposeful and kind of an homage. So there's that.
24:46
Speaker 1: But yeah, there you go, twenty nineteen version of Black Christmas. Yeah,
24:51
Speaker 1: it's very different. There are a lot of themes are there,
24:54
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about them, but it's very different.
24:56
Speaker 1: I did. I did. There are parts of it I
24:58
Speaker 1: really liked, and I thought a lot of this the
25:00
Speaker 1: shots were really good, like really pretty. But yeah, I
25:05
Speaker 1: also thought, and I think we're going to talk about this,
25:08
Speaker 1: but it kind of the way they handled the whole
25:11
Speaker 1: sexual salt thing was a little triggering. Could there be flashbacks?
25:16
Speaker 1: But also just how I don't think it was necessarily healthy,
25:20
Speaker 1: how they talked about it, and how all of our
25:22
Speaker 1: friends were like basically, you've got to get over it,
25:24
Speaker 1: You've got to face it. I think that was the
25:26
Speaker 1: other part. Like the friend Chris, when I say they
25:29
Speaker 1: villainized her because of this, I really feel like that's
25:31
Speaker 1: just what they did with her. And I could get
25:33
Speaker 1: to a point of like when we talk about social
25:36
Speaker 1: justice warriors and the negativity of like you, why aren't
25:39
Speaker 1: you telling your story? Loud that you need to advocate.
25:41
Speaker 1: You like, that's not how I do it. You don't
25:43
Speaker 1: know my trauma, so we do see that. Yeah, but yeah,
25:47
Speaker 1: each one of them forces her into a way that
25:49
Speaker 1: the like people don't, Yeah, the same way, and this
25:55
Speaker 1: didn't happen to you, So this is really irresponsible for
25:58
Speaker 1: you to make that you or battleground that this is
26:01
Speaker 1: your hell when it's not right. And I'm like, this
26:05
Speaker 1: is not being good friendships. This is not good And
26:08
Speaker 1: it felt weird too. At the end where she apologizes,
26:10
Speaker 1: Riley the survivor is apologizing to a friend for dot
26:13
Speaker 1: being stronger and like, wait, that the whole different message
26:17
Speaker 1: when you did this? Why did you do this? I
26:20
Speaker 1: thought that too. I thought that was pretty damaging for
26:22
Speaker 1: kind of the art to be. She had to get
26:25
Speaker 1: the courage and be brave enough to face her her assaulter.
26:32
Speaker 1: That that scene is like a positive like healing is great,
26:36
Speaker 1: but nothing about that was like her chories and it
26:41
Speaker 1: wasn't a healthy thing. That murder, right, there's murder. There's
26:46
Speaker 1: no therapy, there's nothing. Then we need to sign this
26:49
Speaker 1: position and fight, And again I get I get that
26:52
Speaker 1: kind of comp like thought process to a certain extent,
26:57
Speaker 1: and perhaps we're seeing something that wasn't what to call
27:00
Speaker 1: had originated. This is not the movie that she wanted.
27:03
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not saying that anything written in
27:05
Speaker 1: her reactions to this, because from what I understand, her
27:09
Speaker 1: Hulu series or her episode in the Hulu series was
27:13
Speaker 1: really great. Um, she got parades. I think the New
27:15
Speaker 1: Year Knew You is the one. Yeah, that makes me
27:19
Speaker 1: wonder what was originated? What was the thought process? It
27:21
Speaker 1: makes me think, yeah, this was almost performative from the
27:26
Speaker 1: male gaze. Maybe that's just whole thing anyway, let's yeah, yeah,
27:34
Speaker 1: we'll get into it. We'll get into it, alright. So
27:36
Speaker 1: one of the big ones is harassment, which we do
27:39
Speaker 1: see in both of them and the original. The killer
27:43
Speaker 1: is often described as psycho sexual, someone who primarily targets
27:47
Speaker 1: girls and women. Um and when he kills Claire, he's
27:51
Speaker 1: the first person he kills. Um. He puts a baby
27:54
Speaker 1: to on her lap and kind of rocks her. And
27:57
Speaker 1: it's this act of infantilization perceived inferiority of women. Clark
28:03
Speaker 1: claims to have a backstory for the killer. UM quote,
28:06
Speaker 1: Billy is abusive and abused his little sister was abused
28:09
Speaker 1: himself and probably killed his parents and probably locked her
28:12
Speaker 1: up in a basement for five or six years, and
28:14
Speaker 1: I think she escaped. And Billy doesn't like girls, and
28:16
Speaker 1: it turns out Agnes doesn't like boys. Uh, So that's um. Yeah,
28:23
Speaker 1: we've talked about like sigma around mental health and and
28:25
Speaker 1: abused and trauma, and so that's kind of an example
28:28
Speaker 1: of that. You really don't get any of that, Like
28:29
Speaker 1: you kind of it's hard to understand what he's saying
28:32
Speaker 1: on the phone. Right, that felt very ablest Uh, not
28:36
Speaker 1: the rocking and then the overreacting when he kills uh,
28:41
Speaker 1: the house mother. It was a weird like moment of
28:45
Speaker 1: what's happening? Um, his constant bumbling and grumbling and groaning
28:50
Speaker 1: instead of actual words, it felt very It was uncomfortable.
28:56
Speaker 1: You're like, why did you have to do all this? Yeah? Yeah,
29:00
Speaker 1: it's it's unsettling. And another thing, many of the deaths
29:03
Speaker 1: are filmed through the killers gaze, which we have talked
29:07
Speaker 1: about before about how that can be problematic in terms
29:10
Speaker 1: of like who the audience is connecting with, right right? Yeah?
29:17
Speaker 1: And why right? I thought also with the harassment, I
29:21
Speaker 1: thought it was something to note the fact that one
29:23
Speaker 1: had the phone calls like the landline in the two
29:27
Speaker 1: land lines in one little house versus the d M
29:31
Speaker 1: s and the fact that having to explain to the
29:34
Speaker 1: security guard what a d M is. I thought that
29:37
Speaker 1: was really kind of funny. I was like, Okay, is
29:39
Speaker 1: that where we are? Yes, Well, it is interesting because
29:42
Speaker 1: people have said that. People have said, like when we
29:43
Speaker 1: were talked about cyberstocking, Um, that was something people said
29:47
Speaker 1: that was kind of a roadblock for them, is that
29:49
Speaker 1: they had to explain these technologies to authorities. Another thing
29:55
Speaker 1: that we see in these victim blaming At the beginning
29:59
Speaker 1: of the the original film, one of the girls says,
30:02
Speaker 1: you can't rape. Oh yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I
30:05
Speaker 1: gasped at that. I gasped, yeah, because I was one
30:09
Speaker 1: of the things at the very beginning, you you know,
30:11
Speaker 1: something troubling has happened around campus and there are some rapes,
30:15
Speaker 1: and they talked about we need to take this phone
30:17
Speaker 1: call seriously, which was really disturbing, really sexually aggressive messaging
30:21
Speaker 1: at the first phone call. And then they say that
30:24
Speaker 1: and you're like, ah, excuse me, which is a whole
30:29
Speaker 1: different conversation. Yeah, And in the twenty nineteen version, it's
30:32
Speaker 1: not so much the victim blameman, just more of women
30:35
Speaker 1: not being believed. Uh. And again the boys being boys
30:38
Speaker 1: statement and you know, being alpha statement, that's a whole
30:42
Speaker 1: different conversation. But it was more so like the fact
30:45
Speaker 1: that the other girls weren't concerned, like we should all
30:48
Speaker 1: be concerned. Why aren't you, like not believing each other,
30:52
Speaker 1: not listening to each other, and not respecting each other's boundaries.
30:55
Speaker 1: There was a lot of that, and I was like why, yeah, yeah,
30:59
Speaker 1: it was definitely my more of a we're just that
31:02
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, we don't believe you. Yeah, it was
31:05
Speaker 1: pretty infuriating. Then there's a lot of dismissing of women,
31:09
Speaker 1: speaking of when the girls first report their concerns in
31:12
Speaker 1: the original one, the police dismiss them, not believing them
31:15
Speaker 1: to be true. When Claire is reported missing and they
31:18
Speaker 1: assume she's aw somewhere with her boyfriend, which yes, that
31:21
Speaker 1: quote is in both, they ask if she drinks a
31:24
Speaker 1: lot um, if she's seeing someone else. They don't explore
31:27
Speaker 1: the house and don't find all the bodies, And also
31:30
Speaker 1: I did laugh at that they find is it like
31:32
Speaker 1: Claire's boyfriend who's like I got all this for something,
31:37
Speaker 1: and he's so serious faced and he shows up like
31:40
Speaker 1: to the police office and then we're all, okay, now
31:43
Speaker 1: we'll pay attention, but he's like, this is an outrage, right.
31:47
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that it took a dead body
31:50
Speaker 1: for them to take it seriously. For sure, for sure,
31:53
Speaker 1: when we've already talked about that rape has happened. So
31:55
Speaker 1: that's yeah, and interesting again. Yeah, we talked about the
31:59
Speaker 1: security guard being dismissed, of the women being dismissive of
32:02
Speaker 1: each other and just kind of disregarding each other's boundaries
32:06
Speaker 1: and feelings and whatever whatnot, which calls for all the
32:08
Speaker 1: arguments as well. Yeah, definitely a big theme of the movie.
32:26
Speaker 1: And then I wanted to talk about because I feel
32:27
Speaker 1: like almost everything I read mentioned to this. But Jess
32:30
Speaker 1: in the original version has this sweater it's just like
32:33
Speaker 1: two skeleton hands over her boobs, and somehow I didn't it. Oh,
32:38
Speaker 1: like I didn't notice it the first time I watched it,
32:40
Speaker 1: and I read all this stuff about it, I was like, what,
32:41
Speaker 1: And then when you see it, you can't see it. Yeah,
32:45
Speaker 1: And so a lot of people have interpreted that as
32:47
Speaker 1: like the male gaze or like this male touch or
32:50
Speaker 1: this patriarchy dragging her back, like it's just like hands
32:54
Speaker 1: on her at all times. Um, which I thought, I
32:58
Speaker 1: thought that was really interesting. It's quite the striking swriter.
33:01
Speaker 1: And then there's Claire. I had I didn't notice that
33:04
Speaker 1: the first time either, but Claire's posters. She has kind
33:07
Speaker 1: of these you know, they're not like too sexual, but
33:10
Speaker 1: like sexual posters in her room and it's sort of
33:12
Speaker 1: like a gasping moment of her Dad's like I didn't
33:16
Speaker 1: send her here for this, but she is. It's interesting
33:19
Speaker 1: because she's the first to die despite the assumption she's
33:22
Speaker 1: a virgin. There's a quote in there, quote she's a
33:24
Speaker 1: good girl, which normally would put you in final girl
33:27
Speaker 1: slash safe territory, but she was the first to go
33:32
Speaker 1: in this one. But that's interesting that those two women
33:34
Speaker 1: who are pitted against each other as the virginal on
33:37
Speaker 1: the slut. The virginal one has a risk a stuff
33:40
Speaker 1: and the slut has the unicorn and the young innocent stuff.
33:45
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was meant to be who knows, Um,
33:49
Speaker 1: I bet it was. And then yes, there's a lot
33:52
Speaker 1: of a lot of themes around assault, especially in the
33:58
Speaker 1: second one, especially in second one, so yeah, just like
34:02
Speaker 1: this whole idea, probably just had her boyfriends and that's fine,
34:06
Speaker 1: the boys will be boys, saying and when we say
34:09
Speaker 1: it's on the nose, it's on the nose because it's
34:11
Speaker 1: literally that I can't remember her name, but the guy
34:13
Speaker 1: who's like having migraines and kind of acting exchange the boyfriend,
34:17
Speaker 1: he literally says at one point, I like beer, right,
34:21
Speaker 1: So like, oh yeah, Bret Kevin All when it was
34:25
Speaker 1: so interesting because this was the moment where he's been
34:28
Speaker 1: being brainwashed and he walks in. He's getting more and
34:32
Speaker 1: more aggressive as it goes, and they're trying to figure
34:34
Speaker 1: out why, which is soonelike him, and then he's drinking
34:38
Speaker 1: beer and her reaction was you don't even like beer.
34:40
Speaker 1: He's like, I like beer, and it's kind of like
34:43
Speaker 1: what And so both of those troupes like, oh, this
34:45
Speaker 1: is obviously kevanall reference, as well as the fact that
34:49
Speaker 1: we talked about how men like beer. If they don't,
34:52
Speaker 1: they're not manly, and so that was his beginning of
34:55
Speaker 1: like I'm at all alpha mel obviously because I'm drinking
34:58
Speaker 1: beer a little on the nose that one, Yeah, I
35:01
Speaker 1: was I was a little confused. I got it, but
35:05
Speaker 1: I was also like, this feels kind of out of nowhere.
35:07
Speaker 1: But at this point, you don't know about the whole
35:09
Speaker 1: goog misogyny thing that's bringing more so I don't know.
35:14
Speaker 1: And then we also discussed this kind of problematic narrative
35:18
Speaker 1: throughout the new one of the responsibility to share your
35:21
Speaker 1: story and share your story in a certain way. I
35:24
Speaker 1: thought this line was interesting. At one point, I think
35:26
Speaker 1: Chris says, we could make a list of the guys
35:28
Speaker 1: who want us dead, which is every now and then
35:31
Speaker 1: I take a step back and I think about the
35:33
Speaker 1: walking to the car with the keys or all these
35:35
Speaker 1: things that we do in our every day that's kind
35:37
Speaker 1: of in the back of your head. You're thinking I
35:40
Speaker 1: could be killed or I could be raped or something like.
35:43
Speaker 1: Those threats just live there, and we kind of have
35:46
Speaker 1: gotten used to them, right, and especially for those who
35:49
Speaker 1: actually take a stand or be like one of those
35:52
Speaker 1: who do fin for themselves literally are like, hey, I'm
35:55
Speaker 1: not going to take this. The amount of people who Yeah,
35:58
Speaker 1: but what she says that it's so dismissive LEAs of
36:00
Speaker 1: a like common thing is also like, oh god, mm hmm.
36:06
Speaker 1: And then yeah, like I said, definitely not believing women.
36:11
Speaker 1: There's also kind of a not leaving other women behind
36:14
Speaker 1: thing in both um. I'm not sure how successfully it
36:18
Speaker 1: was pulled off, but there's kind of this idea of like, yeah,
36:21
Speaker 1: we're stronger together, we stick together. Yeah, so that was there.
36:26
Speaker 1: I did want to briefly talk about the abortion part
36:28
Speaker 1: from the one, because the first time I saw this
36:32
Speaker 1: it kind of shocked me. I was like, WHOA. Jess's
36:37
Speaker 1: boyfriend calls her a selfish bitch when she says she
36:40
Speaker 1: wants an abortion, and interestingly, Jessice never really portrayed villainously
36:44
Speaker 1: for this decision. Her boyfriend Peter is instead portrayed as
36:48
Speaker 1: a villain, as a violent, angry man who's trying to
36:51
Speaker 1: control her. Also, interestingly, while Jess is the final girl,
36:56
Speaker 1: she doesn't quite fit this trope because she's very open
36:59
Speaker 1: about her active sex life. The movie was released soon
37:02
Speaker 1: after abortion became legal in both the US and Canada.
37:06
Speaker 1: I just that's so interesting. I feel like you don't
37:09
Speaker 1: really see that, you don't see that as a plot point.
37:13
Speaker 1: So normally, especially exactly, it's like it's not such a
37:18
Speaker 1: big deal for anyone else. And there's no one else.
37:20
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, it's a bit like
37:21
Speaker 1: it's him who is acting like a child and not
37:25
Speaker 1: understanding the level of responsibility. Uh. And then you have
37:30
Speaker 1: her who's just straight forward like, hey, no, I can't
37:33
Speaker 1: do this. I don't love you like that. It is
37:36
Speaker 1: interesting because, especially when we talk about the ways of
37:39
Speaker 1: fibinism and how it came through, they were so much
37:42
Speaker 1: more accepting. Sminthia has talked about it before, about the
37:45
Speaker 1: fact that it wasn't that big and it wasn't this
37:49
Speaker 1: huge morality thing until later on, unless you know, later
37:52
Speaker 1: in history than you would expect, and I think this
37:55
Speaker 1: might have hit that time weirdly enough. Yeah, And so
37:58
Speaker 1: for us it feels at least it felt weird to me.
38:02
Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow, they're just talking about it, and it's
38:04
Speaker 1: not like the main plot point, but it's a plot point,
38:06
Speaker 1: and it's like she's not bad, she's not being painted
38:10
Speaker 1: at a negative light for it, and it's not some
38:13
Speaker 1: huge like drama kind of being annoyed with this guy
38:17
Speaker 1: and being very mat Yeah, and maybe he's a killer,
38:21
Speaker 1: who knows, and maybe he's a killer, but either way,
38:23
Speaker 1: you're not meant to sympathize with him, and then I
38:27
Speaker 1: was I watched both of these back to back, which
38:29
Speaker 1: was interesting because I kind of there's like this idea
38:34
Speaker 1: of this nameless, faceless killer, and it kind of feels
38:37
Speaker 1: like in both of them that could represent these ideas
38:40
Speaker 1: were talking about of like misogyny and patriarchy of like,
38:43
Speaker 1: at the end of the old one, they didn't they
38:47
Speaker 1: probably didn't get the guy, um it's going to continue.
38:50
Speaker 1: And of course in the newer one, misogyny being like
38:54
Speaker 1: this goog this kind of thing that people are just absorbing. Yeah,
38:59
Speaker 1: it was just thing. Also, like I remember, I think
39:02
Speaker 1: it was in the second one where there was a
39:03
Speaker 1: part where I was like, so are they kind of
39:05
Speaker 1: saying not all men equals all men? Right? I mean
39:09
Speaker 1: in the twenty nineteen version literally has the argument of
39:14
Speaker 1: the not all men because Marty the boyfriend, who was
39:17
Speaker 1: like I like beer, started streaming at her about you
39:20
Speaker 1: love us all in we can't win, and you were
39:23
Speaker 1: telling other we are all the bad guys, and she
39:25
Speaker 1: was just like, what is happening with you? But essentially
39:29
Speaker 1: he is being that boys of saying that feminism has caused, uh,
39:35
Speaker 1: the villainization of all men. Your fault, but then keep
39:40
Speaker 1: that interesting all men, because it's what they wanted to
39:45
Speaker 1: do a little less on the nose on that one,
39:48
Speaker 1: and like see we told you essentially yeah yeah, But
39:54
Speaker 1: a part of that too is that this, the newer
39:57
Speaker 1: one was definitely big on, like all of this news
40:01
Speaker 1: stories around sexual assaun on college campuses and me too
40:04
Speaker 1: and frat culture right again, Yeah, a big theme is
40:09
Speaker 1: the heavy hitting of woke culture. And I don't think
40:13
Speaker 1: they ever say woke in that that term had been
40:15
Speaker 1: so big at that point in time, but um, it is.
40:20
Speaker 1: It's definitely in there. And then the not necessarily a critique,
40:23
Speaker 1: but again heavy handed themes where you there was no
40:27
Speaker 1: way it was being said every few minutes about white supremacy,
40:31
Speaker 1: the patriarchy, and again it sounds like some of our
40:34
Speaker 1: conversations sometimes any I mean, we definitely do live in
40:38
Speaker 1: that world, so not so outside of the realms of it.
40:41
Speaker 1: But for a horror movie, it's kind of like what oh, okay,
40:45
Speaker 1: okay okay. But again it's also portrayed by the one
40:50
Speaker 1: who could be seen and disliked because she was too forceful.
40:55
Speaker 1: And I say this in that it seems like it
40:59
Speaker 1: was a stereotypical casting in what they were doing and
41:04
Speaker 1: how they were representing it and putting it all all
41:06
Speaker 1: one woman, which seemed weird. I'm like, that's not that's
41:10
Speaker 1: not always, that's not how that's it. Okay, cool, cool cool.
41:13
Speaker 1: Um Again, the constant need to fight quote unquote, whether
41:17
Speaker 1: it's through a petition, a song, or literally with knives
41:20
Speaker 1: and bows and arrows, so like, that is definitely heavy
41:23
Speaker 1: handed theme. At one point, one of the critiques about
41:26
Speaker 1: this movie stated that they felt like they were trying
41:29
Speaker 1: to do a good out, meaning they wanted to do
41:32
Speaker 1: a very on topical type of movie, but just kind
41:37
Speaker 1: of was so overboard that it didn't balance um and
41:42
Speaker 1: I can see I could see that. I can see
41:44
Speaker 1: that um Riley as the final girl. But here we
41:47
Speaker 1: actually have two in the two different manners, except one
41:51
Speaker 1: is singled out as a victim Alpha revenge and the
41:54
Speaker 1: other is a social justice warrior who runs but comes
41:57
Speaker 1: back to say her friend after she finds backup, essentially
42:00
Speaker 1: like she finds our crew people who are ready to
42:02
Speaker 1: fight as well. So I thought that was interesting. But yeah,
42:06
Speaker 1: there was a lot to this movie that I'm like,
42:07
Speaker 1: I see where we were going. I think if you
42:11
Speaker 1: had four hours long, really like build some character, yeah,
42:17
Speaker 1: and depth in these characters, rather, it would have gone
42:20
Speaker 1: a lot further. But they're trying to make it a
42:23
Speaker 1: slasher horror movie of what it was originally with all
42:27
Speaker 1: the social commentary and not just one or two things,
42:30
Speaker 1: but so much. And granted twenty nineteen, two thousand, every
42:40
Speaker 1: month probably could be a two hour movie. Let's be real,
42:44
Speaker 1: any of those years, each month could be a movie
42:46
Speaker 1: in itself. So I get like there was a lot
42:49
Speaker 1: to try to cram in there, especially when we want
42:52
Speaker 1: to talk about It's kind of like one of my
42:54
Speaker 1: episodes when I'm like, here, I'm gonna talk about this
42:56
Speaker 1: one thing, and then I've trailed off into two other
42:58
Speaker 1: subjects that could be in his own. Yeah, So I
43:03
Speaker 1: get it, I get it, I get it. But yeah,
43:05
Speaker 1: it's definitely one of those like, yes, I understand this. Yes,
43:09
Speaker 1: and maybe also Anny, on this note, with you and
43:13
Speaker 1: I as both being women who have experienced sexual trauma,
43:17
Speaker 1: myself as being a person of color, this is like, yeah,
43:20
Speaker 1: I already know. So maybe that's why it felt so
43:23
Speaker 1: on the nose because for us, this is, yeah, the
43:26
Speaker 1: truth of it, and there's nothing different for us. For us,
43:30
Speaker 1: I mean that's a good point. It's one of those
43:32
Speaker 1: weird things where like seeing it, seeing something like that
43:35
Speaker 1: if it's done well, is nice, even if it's like, oh,
43:38
Speaker 1: I can tell women have done this. I just remember
43:41
Speaker 1: so clear that moment and Birds of Prey where they
43:43
Speaker 1: asked about the hair band or something, and I'm like, yes, right,
43:46
Speaker 1: So it's like, I'm glad to see those things acknowledge,
43:50
Speaker 1: especially when we know, you know, who wrote it and
43:52
Speaker 1: are are people who have experienced it? But yeah, you're right,
43:56
Speaker 1: maybe because maybe we the people watched it and we're
44:01
Speaker 1: like what. I definitely had those conversations with male friends
44:03
Speaker 1: in my life and I'm like, oh, yeah, the keys,
44:05
Speaker 1: you know, right, and they don't know, and yeah, I
44:09
Speaker 1: think for me, it just felt like too much was
44:11
Speaker 1: trying to be done. But also, and this also could
44:15
Speaker 1: be very much because we're in this room, but they
44:18
Speaker 1: had the whole sexual assault thing. I was like, this
44:21
Speaker 1: was not handled Will, No, it just wasn't handled Will.
44:25
Speaker 1: And it felt to me as someone who's experienced it.
44:28
Speaker 1: And I don't want to say anything about anybody on
44:30
Speaker 1: the because I don't know, but for me as someone
44:32
Speaker 1: who's experience. It was like, this just feels incorrect. It
44:38
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a healthy way of showing this. But well,
44:45
Speaker 1: I think the other part that was when we see
44:48
Speaker 1: the original Helena who's getting assaulted and she's trying to
44:53
Speaker 1: prevent this, and then she comes back to the group
44:56
Speaker 1: and just literally says, you know, she's just drunk. It's
44:59
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, we're not going to talk about
45:00
Speaker 1: whether or not she might have been drugged, which you
45:02
Speaker 1: all have already said they do. And they were so
45:06
Speaker 1: dismissive and point her as if she was like hell
45:11
Speaker 1: and of course and not seeing an issue with this
45:15
Speaker 1: moment as the victim herself, the survivor herself, Riley, she
45:21
Speaker 1: is triggered, she notices that, and she's triggered. They show
45:23
Speaker 1: it a little bit, but then the dismissiveness of it,
45:26
Speaker 1: it's like, which, this is a weird glazing over of
45:32
Speaker 1: a really volatile traumatic moment. I don't understand. Yeah. Yeah,
45:38
Speaker 1: So there were just some things like that we didn't
45:40
Speaker 1: even really get to talk about in that whole betrayal.
45:44
Speaker 1: Yeah we didn't. I feel like I get it too.
45:48
Speaker 1: But here's this other part of like, Okay, we gotta
45:52
Speaker 1: have the You know, we're not gonna say all women either,
45:56
Speaker 1: but here here's this one woman who wants to be
45:58
Speaker 1: subjugated to the I'm like, wait what yeah, yeah, that
46:02
Speaker 1: part kind of through me that I was like, I
46:04
Speaker 1: guess she's seeking possessed. But it just feels it, doesn't,
46:09
Speaker 1: I thought, because it doesn't fit with her character at all.
46:12
Speaker 1: I thought I was like back and was like, thank
46:16
Speaker 1: you so much for my pen a the hair comb,
46:20
Speaker 1: And then it comes back She's like, don't you see,
46:22
Speaker 1: they gave me a choice, and they can give you
46:23
Speaker 1: a choice, and if we give in, we'll be okay
46:25
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna take over the world anyway. But this
46:27
Speaker 1: this feels right? Doesn't this feel right? She was possessed.
46:30
Speaker 1: I don't think she's supposed to be. Well what's that called.
46:33
Speaker 1: There's a name for that when you think you would
46:35
Speaker 1: get a choice, but there's no choice, but the power
46:38
Speaker 1: of tricking people into thinking there's a choice. Right. They
46:42
Speaker 1: were going to get into way too deep of topics
46:44
Speaker 1: for so many things. So let's let's end it here. Um,
46:49
Speaker 1: we hope that you enjoyed this. I think they were
46:51
Speaker 1: both worth watching, to be honest, But yeah, it's some
46:56
Speaker 1: interesting things, problematic things, as is it mostly as we
47:00
Speaker 1: talk about, yes, and always keep those suggestions coming. What
47:05
Speaker 1: should we watch next? You can email us at Stephidio
47:09
Speaker 1: Mom stuff That I Heart Media dot com. You can
47:10
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at moms podcast or on Instagram
47:12
Speaker 1: and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always to
47:14
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina Yes, thank you and thanks, thank
47:18
Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I Never Told You his production
47:20
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts on my heart
47:21
Speaker 1: Radio is the heart Radio app. Have a podcast wherever
47:23
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.