Latest / Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott / Mark Schlakman Chats About The "Rise" of Socialism

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Mark Schlakman Chats About The "Rise" of Socialism · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I thought it would be a good discussion to have.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And I brought in somebody that I find fascinating. I
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: find him to be a very deep thinker. And you
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: can laugh at that yourself, sir. But I think that you,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Mark Schlackman, my guest, Senior Program Director, FSU Center for
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the Advancement of Human Rights. We've crossed paths many times
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: over the years. Primarily, Mark made available to this show
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: some wonderful guests over the years. But we've also developed
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a friendship aside from that in just being able to
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  Speaker 1: communicate and talk about issues and things. And so, Mark,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Good to see you again.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Preston, it is truly great to be here.
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  Speaker 1: I hit you with a question that prompted this. And
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  Speaker 1: I said, what... is the Democrat Party going to do
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  Speaker 1: about the socialism problem inside of it? And I think
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  Speaker 1: that socialism and its dangers to our nation need to
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  Speaker 1: be discussed. And I said, are you willing to come
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  Speaker 1: in and share your thoughts and your insights on the topic?
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  Speaker 1: You agreed. To set all of your perspective up the
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  Speaker 1: best we can within the time constraints that we have,
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  Speaker 1: which is most of the rest of the hour, give
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  Speaker 1: people a snapshot of your background, because I think it
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: illuminates your perspective.
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  Speaker 2: Preston, thank you. And to clarify the disclaimer, not speaking
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  Speaker 2: on behalf of FSU in your studio. So some of
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  Speaker 2: my background, I'm a lawyer. J.D. from Georgetown had the
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to serve as special counsel to Governor Lawton Childs,
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  Speaker 2: transition advisor to Governor Jeb Bush when he was coming
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  Speaker 2: into office on President Clinton's staff toward the end of
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  Speaker 2: his term. in the office of the special envoy for
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  Speaker 2: the Americas within the White House. When President Bush came in,
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  Speaker 2: transitioned to the Department of State, Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: where this is, I just say this because one, it
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: makes me smile, that one of the titles, it's quite long,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: extendo business card if we still use business cards these days,
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  Speaker 2: but alternate representative to the U.S. permanent mission to the
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  Speaker 2: Organization of American States.
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  Speaker 1: There's not even an acronym that shortens that very well.
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  Speaker 2: And it goes around the back of the car. But
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  Speaker 2: that was fascinating because it's a regional organization representing the
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  Speaker 2: countries in the Western Hemisphere. So occasionally I had an
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to speak on behalf of the United States, which was, frankly,
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  Speaker 2: it's an honor and it was thrilling. Many, many memories.
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  Speaker 2: And the OAS, the Organization of American States, is right
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  Speaker 2: down the block, a couple blocks from the White House
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  Speaker 2: where my office was. And then Also served as interim
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  Speaker 2: foreign policy advisor to the four-star U.S. Marine Corps general
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  Speaker 2: at SELTCOM, who became chairman of the Joint Chiefs, President
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  Speaker 2: George W. Bush appointed. And I came back to Florida
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  Speaker 2: by way of Joint Interagency Task Force South at Naval
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  Speaker 2: Air Station Key West. It's a tactical intelligence fusion center
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  Speaker 2: that conducts counter-illicit trafficking operations in the Western hemisphere and
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  Speaker 2: areas of the Pacific command. So I've had the opportunity
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  Speaker 2: to navigate Democratic and Republican administrations and not from a
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  Speaker 2: party perspective, but from, you know, issues and how do
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  Speaker 2: you make things happen? How do you respond to things?
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  Speaker 2: What could be, should be considered over the horizon? And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, within Florida, that also included... the executive clemency,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: death penalty issues, immigration as it relates to the state's
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  Speaker 2: role insofar as the federal government. So a range of
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  Speaker 2: different topics and just echoing. I've truly enjoyed the overtime,
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  Speaker 2: our visits, and the speakers that I've been able to facilitate.
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  Speaker 2: They've had remarkable experiences with you because you are, among
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  Speaker 2: other things, respectful, which is seemingly a lost art today.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. You can be incredibly opinionated and have
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  Speaker 1: strong convictions, but still be cordial and still be polite
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  Speaker 1: and still be respectful of ones who might share different opinions.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and you respect the dignity of being a human being,
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  Speaker 2: even if you're diametrically opposed in viewpoints, which is lacking
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  Speaker 2: in many respects today.
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  Speaker 1: Mark Schlackman with me. He's eyeballing my baubles over there.
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  Speaker 1: And I fear, Mark, that if elections keep going the
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  Speaker 1: way they're going in local and state and national elections,
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  Speaker 1: they're going to be turned the other way. They're going
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  Speaker 1: to turn their back to me. You came prepared, as
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  Speaker 1: I thought you would. You wanted to share some numbers
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  Speaker 1: for context. Tell me more.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, just as a point of entry, or not even
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  Speaker 2: a point of entry, just kind of surrounding these issues, I.
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  Speaker 2: I don't research these issues, Preston. I think you know
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  Speaker 2: that and you've asked me that. This is not my
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  Speaker 2: area of emphasis. But just to try to navigate it,
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  Speaker 2: move through this. So I just wanted kind of a
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  Speaker 2: point of reference, some context. So I pulled up. The DSA.
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  Speaker 2: And the just only, this is not my research.
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  Speaker 1: And that's the Democrat Socialists of America.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Okay. And I, just for, again, a quick aside,
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  Speaker 2: this is there the equivalent of who we are about us.
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  Speaker 2: And it just says that, what, the Democratic Socialists of
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  Speaker 2: America is the largest socialist organization in the United States
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  Speaker 2: with over 100,000 members and chapters in all 50 states. Mm-hmm. Okay. Jared,
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  Speaker 2: I believe, when I was listening to you and Steve
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  Speaker 2: and then your assessment of, let's just say, leadership issues
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  Speaker 2: in the Republican Party, which I can analogize also to
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  Speaker 2: the Democratic Party.
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  Speaker 1: Agreed.
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  Speaker 2: The number, and Jared, please correct me if I misstate this.
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  Speaker 2: I think you said that there were 270 million adults.
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  Speaker 2: That's the quick answer. Yeah, and that's all it is
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  Speaker 2: because it's just ballpark. So if we did just a
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  Speaker 2: quick percentage, let's take what is noted on the website
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  Speaker 2: that I checked, also a quick search, and that is 0.00005%
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  Speaker 2: of the adult population. So I think often concerns... and
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  Speaker 2: or narratives surrounding the concerns are often significantly outsized compared
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  Speaker 2: to the actual number of people who may be all
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  Speaker 2: in for any particular cause. So that doesn't, the numbers,
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  Speaker 2: it's just a quick pulse of that. But Now we
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  Speaker 2: can get to some of the issues.
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  Speaker 1: The problem with that is that if you assign accurately,
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  Speaker 1: look at the minuscule numbers compared to the overall piece
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  Speaker 1: of the pie here. I mean, we've got a big pie,
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  Speaker 1: and this is not even a piece of the crust.
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  Speaker 2: The blip.
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: But here's the problem with that. That percentage, I promise you,
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  Speaker 1: isn't accurate to elected offices in this country. I promise
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  Speaker 1: you that. when you look at cities, counties, states, and
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  Speaker 1: now nation, there are now, let me phrase it this way.
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  Speaker 1: Would you have ever seen another time in your life
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  Speaker 1: where someone would have run for an elected office in
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  Speaker 1: this country bragging about being a Democrat socialist?
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  Speaker 2: So, I know this might make you wince or smile
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  Speaker 2: or both, but again, by analogy, it is now difficult
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  Speaker 2: for many, irrespective of party, to imagine running as essentially
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  Speaker 2: a grand wizard of the KKK. There are a lot
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  Speaker 2: of beliefs, attitudes, and values that people at least may
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  Speaker 2: be aware of that they either embrace or were completely reject.
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  Speaker 2: And so I think we've reached a point, Preston, where,
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  Speaker 2: just to get back to your question, I'm not necessarily
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  Speaker 2: surprised by anything these days.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't ask if you were surprised. I asked if
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  Speaker 1: there was another time in history where it ever would
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  Speaker 1: have happened. And that's my point. My point is there
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  Speaker 1: is a growing tolerance. And polling shows young people have
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  Speaker 1: a growing interest I think it's from lack of knowledge
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  Speaker 1: in our schools, a failure in our public education. But
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  Speaker 1: there is an embrace of these ideals without a knowledge
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  Speaker 1: of what it leads to.
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  Speaker 2: Well, on the other side, I'd love to get to
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  Speaker 2: what underlies some of the broad brush ideals, and then
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  Speaker 2: we can unpack it further.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Mark Schlackman with me. We're just warming up. It's
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  Speaker 1: The Morning Show with Preston Scott. Mark Schlackman with me.
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  Speaker 1: And we're talking about the creep that is not so
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  Speaker 1: much a creep anymore. I mean, we have a socialist
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  Speaker 1: mayor of New York City. We have socialists that have
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  Speaker 1: been elected to Congress. We have socialists that have taken
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  Speaker 1: over communities. like Seattle and largely Portland. We have the
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  Speaker 1: threat of that happening in Florida's capital city right now.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's a massive problem. Despite the numbers, Mark,
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  Speaker 1: the relatively few, the ideals that they're espousing are winning
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  Speaker 1: hearts and minds. Why?
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  Speaker 2: So Preston, let's Again, attempt to unpack that. And when
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  Speaker 2: I say that, I don't pretend to have the, quote,
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  Speaker 2: right answers.
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  Speaker 1: No, that's why we're here.
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  Speaker 2: Let's just unpack that. It's not clear to me, and
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  Speaker 2: no one calls me to make sure it's clear to me,
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  Speaker 2: but it's not clear to me that people, whether elected
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  Speaker 2: office at any level, local, national, state, state, use the
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  Speaker 2: terms as they were conceived. In other words, I think
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  Speaker 2: there's a lot of distance or disconnect or maybe misunderstanding,
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  Speaker 2: whether it's misinformation or disinformation, we won't even go down
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  Speaker 2: that path.
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  Speaker 1: But don't you think Mamdani's actually governing as a socialist?
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  Speaker 1: He said he would, and I think he is.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so here's a challenge for all of us. especially
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  Speaker 2: regardless of party, and that's where we're really stuck today
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  Speaker 2: because the Ds vilify the Rs and the Rs vilify
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  Speaker 2: the Ds, and vilify is probably a diplomatic word. It's like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: you don't govern from the 50-point-whatever percent, but that's where
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  Speaker 2: we are today. So recognizing that capitalism is the— the
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  Speaker 2: present and the future. So trying to identify the symptoms
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  Speaker 2: of completely unchecked or unfettered capitalism. I mean, we could
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: go back, we were talking on break, I mentioned we
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  Speaker 2: didn't have a chance to get into it, but, you know,
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  Speaker 2: Upton Sinclair, I think it was 1906, you know, a
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  Speaker 2: book about the abuses of, you know, capitalism insofar as
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  Speaker 2: factories and conditions and then, you know, human trafficking. And
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  Speaker 2: how about the Pinto? I don't even know how many
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  Speaker 2: of you, well, your listeners may remember the Pinto, but,
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  Speaker 2: but my, in my classes that I teach that, that
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  Speaker 2: I don't even try to go there to describe the Pinto,
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  Speaker 2: but Preston, do you remember that? It was a, it
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  Speaker 2: was a calculated decision by Ford. At least that's what
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  Speaker 2: came out in the records that they were aware that
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  Speaker 2: these cars would explode under certain conditions, but they, they
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  Speaker 2: ran the numbers. Okay, so there are opportunities to place
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  Speaker 2: guide rails or in markets that are moving more toward
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  Speaker 2: oligopoly to regulate but not to stultify. And that takes
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  Speaker 2: honest communication, which, again, not to wax poetic, we're lacking
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  Speaker 2: today across the board. So I'm not convinced that we're not,
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  Speaker 2: you know, all of the talk, I mean, set the
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  Speaker 2: DSA aside. I just use that as a quick, you know,
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  Speaker 2: perspective as far as numbers. In terms of people that
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  Speaker 2: describe themselves as socialists, and then, of course, understanding the
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  Speaker 2: differentiation between socialism and communism, which tend to get conflated.
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  Speaker 1: Well, because one leads to the other.
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  Speaker 2: It can, if one follows Marxian principles. But I'm not
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  Speaker 2: sure that, you know.
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  Speaker 1: I think one would say I personally think history suggests
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  Speaker 1: that it's an inevitability.
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  Speaker 2: Well, again, looking around and the fun part about this
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  Speaker 2: conversation is there's so many different dimensions of it. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: if if we look around the world at the different, quote,
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  Speaker 2: socialist governments, they're capitalist governments. With different twists and in
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  Speaker 2: many respects. I'm not saying, you know.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I would say they try to be capitalist. I
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  Speaker 1: would say they're not successful at it because the government owns.
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  Speaker 2: Well, here's a, oh, I can't wait to go here.
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  Speaker 1: We got 30 seconds left.
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  Speaker 2: All right. Cato Institute just indicated that the Trump administration
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  Speaker 2: has entered into 32 substantial equity agreements where the government
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  Speaker 2: the federal government taxpayers are taking ownership of the.
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  Speaker 1: Industry horribly bad decision.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that on the other.
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  Speaker 1: Side yeah and and that was another thing that got
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  Speaker 1: me in trouble with the listeners because i just excoriated
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  Speaker 1: those decisions that's privatizing uh that's taking control of of
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  Speaker 1: a privatized industry or try to take ownership of it
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  Speaker 1: by the government On behalf of the taxpayers, it's ridiculous.
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  Speaker 1: It's a terrible decision. And it's the creep into the
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  Speaker 1: socialist problem.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and it's ironically more on the current administration than previously.
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  Speaker 1: 100% agree. This time moves so fast. And in fairness,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the discussion Mark Schlackman and I are having on socialism
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  Speaker 1: is far bigger than 25 minutes here on the program today.
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  Speaker 1: but I think it's important that we have the discussion
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  Speaker 1: because if you can't talk about things, that's how they
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  Speaker 1: get a root. They, they, they gain roots and they
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  Speaker 1: spread because we don't talk about things. And Mark, I,
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  Speaker 1: I have grave concerns in the number of younger people
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  Speaker 1: in this country that just think it's the panacea. It
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  Speaker 1: is the, the, the go-to.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Preston, I, I don't disagree. And this goes
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  Speaker 2: back to a, a, earlier observation, it's not at all
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  Speaker 2: clear to me, or in some respects it is, that
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  Speaker 2: people use terms and embrace concepts without really understanding the
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  Speaker 2: full extent or significance.
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  Speaker 1: I completely agree.
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  Speaker 2: Contextually. And how about this, to just kind of make
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  Speaker 2: it awkward, including terms like, quote, relatively simple, like liberal
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  Speaker 2: and conservative, Well, liberal doesn't mean anything as it's expressed today. Right,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: or conservative. And is the administration today conservative in the
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: traditional sense? So I think a lot of these terms
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  Speaker 2: are embraced without people, not limited to students, but certainly
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: students as well, without really knowing. So we were touching
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: upon something, and we certainly don't need to delve into it,
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  Speaker 2: but I'm looking at a Cato Institute blog from just
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  Speaker 2: a few or several days ago, September 4, 2026. And
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: it delves into detail. I would even- Oh, just read
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the headline. The headline says it all. Yeah. President Trump's
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: 32nd equity stake takes ownership spree to Venezuela. So basically,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the US now owns part of the Venezuelan petroleum industry,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: which- we don't have time to go into it another time,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: even off air. I'd love to have this conversation with you,
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  Speaker 2: but let's just acknowledge and set aside international law and
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  Speaker 2: sovereignty and all.
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  Speaker 1: Of those old things. That was those old chestnuts.
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  Speaker 2: Just building blocks. And we'll just kind of note them,
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  Speaker 2: push them aside for socialism.
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  Speaker 1: That's socialism. We don't need to be owning business.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Well, so just one, um, looking same thing at this
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  Speaker 2: Cato Institute, libertarian and, you know, um, um, sensibilities. So
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: one sentence or two. According to the White House, Venezuelan
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: authorities gave the interest concessions to 17 of its oil
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: fields and estimated 65 billion barrels. The Pentagon's Office of
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Strategic Capital gets a 35% stake, while the State Department
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: of the United States has the right to buy 20%
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: of production at cost and first crack at the remaining 80%.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Disagreement also requires U.S. citizens to hold a majority of
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: board seats. Preston, we're in this surreal Orwellian world where
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the narratives are being orchestrated And the attack mode, when
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: actually it's kind of a look in the mirror first.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I agree. When the president advocated taking ownership of
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: one of the defense contractors or a stake in it
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  Speaker 1: at the least, I was aghast. I was just like,
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  Speaker 1: you've got to be kidding me. That is socialism in action.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: And that's real socialism. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: That's the old school definition of socialism, not some watered
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: down definition of today.
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  Speaker 2: Right. This is not a grant or a loan concession.
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  Speaker 2: This is ownership by the U.S. government and the taxpayers.
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  Speaker 2: We're owning these businesses and parts of another country.
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  Speaker 1: I would almost invert that, Mark, just to play a
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: semantical reversal on you. It's not the U.S. because the U.S.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: government is the taxpayers. The government doesn't exist without us.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: And so we're on the hook.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: That's the bottom line. The taxpayers are on the hook.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Forget the government. We're on the hook. The taxpayers own
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: this stuff and we're not supposed to be owning this stuff.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: You know, and Preston, the same thing. There's so many
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: aspects of this because if we look back to 2008
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: and the whole economy, was on the brink of imploding
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and the U.S. government stabilized some industries, took ownership shares.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So without even... Mistake. Well, so I think go back
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to something that you were.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Too big to fail.
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  Speaker 2: You were discussing, yes, you were discussing before I joined
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: you this morning, that the absolute lack of or necessity
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: to have a meaningful, coherent conversation, critical analysis, what the
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: implications are, if there is a strong case to be
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: made to stabilize in 2008, make the case and then
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: have the discussion not just within one party or not
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: one party vilifying the other, but have the discussion. And now,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: if the Trump administration believes very strongly that there is
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: a necessity to continue this expansion of the U.S. government
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: back to Europe, of the American taxpayers continually expanding its
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: portfolio of ownership, make the case. But don't just kind
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: of point to you know, the Democrat or DSA and say, oh,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: these are the, this is the evil.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to keep pointing at the DSA as evil,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: but I'm also calling out the good guys for being wrong.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: And remember, Preston,. 00005.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: And just remember, it's far bigger than that in office.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Final segment. Time flies when you're having... See, this is
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: what we miss today in culture. The opportunity to just
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: sit down and have a chat. And I knew I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: could do this with Mark. I just... Yeah.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Preston, you said we'd have fun. And I am
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: indeed having fun. And I think it's meaningful. Oh, by
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the way.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Well, this is our final five minutes here. So, my concern...
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: is the growth of socialism and the dangers that it
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: presents to our nation. Are we able to, and we're
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: not disagreeing necessarily on anything right now, but I'm curious,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: do you share my concern?
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I share the concern about a, and I use the
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: word ignorance not to be disrespectful, but a lack of
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: knowledge in that context. I'm concerned about the use of
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a wide range of terms, including.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: These, But is it even deniable at this point, Mark,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: that we both abhor where the Democrats and Republicans are today?
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Can we agree that inside the Democrat Party right now,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the socialist voice, the self-described socialist voice, is the voice
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that's got the bully pulpit?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's something, a countervailing effect, and I'm just
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: sharing with you. And then I also want to share
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: one other aspect, because before we close, you know, I
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: use the term, and I rarely use it because it's
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: often interpreted as being disparaging ignorance, or it's just lack
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: of knowledge and context. That's the better way to describe it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I think in this instance... The American people,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: the voters, the responsibility must be shouldered by us, by them.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And that calls for some critical analysis beyond just party
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: talking points. So whatever the issues are, it's a market.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: How about this for analogy? It's a marketplace of ideas.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And the ideas must be analyzed and evaluated without the narratives.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: But do you believe that there is a mechanism existing
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: in our country? It used to be the media. The
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: media used to say, let the chips fall where they may.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: We're going to dig in like ticks and we're going
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to just let it fall. The media has a stake
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: in this game. They are on one side of the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: political dialogue. You know, people say, well, you're not biased.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: You're biased, Preston. Yeah, I'm the counterbalance.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the journalism, the role is essential.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But it's not there. So who's going to inform and
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: analyze and offer this debate, if you will? Because I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: wrote down here in my notes, yeah, the young people today...
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: don't understand. They don't get the meaning of the terms,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: but Mark, they're voting.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I would just observe this on the issue
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: that debate makes sense, but I would respectfully substitute dialogue
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: for debate because debate contemplates win or lose.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: That's fair. That's fair.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And I'd like to just step back because I know
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: our time's... Yep.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: You're in the final... Runway landing here. Go ahead.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I shared with you a friend, colleague, life friend,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Emilio Gonzalez. He ran for mayor in Miami. Republican nominee,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: came through a primary at 14, 13, whatever it was, people,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and was defeated. Met him when he was a colonel
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: at South Com. He was a senior official within the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Bush administration. He's from Cuba. He's carrying his experience with him,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: and he's written, I should say, for the Washington Times
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: many pieces, including just this week. He's very, very focused and,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: let's just say, harsh in terms of, harsh is a
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: relative term, but extrapolating from his experience, and this also
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: carries forward to others who may not be, quote, immigrants.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're all immigrants, right? Ultimately, to some extent,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: at one point in time. But our experience, whether it's
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: in the Americas or otherwise, this shapes a truly animated response.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know that that lends itself to critical analysis either,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: but I'm respectful of it. So to answer your question,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I don't have an answer.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to leave it there. We're out of time.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Preston.