Latest / The Joe Rogan Recap / Robert Bigelow (2021) - UFOs, Consciousness and Technology

Transcript

Robert Bigelow (2021) - UFOs, Consciousness and Technology · The Joe Rogan Recap

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap. Today, we're taking a deep dive
• 0:03
  into a really compelling conversation.
• 0:06
  That's right. From the Joe Rogan Experience
• 0:08
  episode Hashtag 1612. The guest was Robert Bigelow.
• 0:12
  Of Bigelow Aerospace fame, yeah, but also someone with this
• 0:16
  lifelong deep fascination with UFOs.
• 0:19
  And our goal today for you listening is basically to pull
• 0:23
  out the key moments, the, you know, the big insights from that
• 0:26
  chat. Make it kind of digestible,
• 0:28
  right, Without getting totally lost in the weeds.
• 0:30
  Exactly. So where does his interest even
• 0:32
  start? It's pretty personal,
• 0:34
  apparently. Oh yeah, it's not just academic
• 0:36
  for him, it goes way back to his grandparents.
• 0:38
  May 1947 near Las Vegas. May 47, Wow.
• 0:42
  OK, So what happened? Well, they were driving and
• 0:45
  suddenly this this object fills their windshield.
• 0:49
  Fills a windshield like a close. Super close.
• 0:52
  They thought it was a burning plane.
• 0:53
  Honestly, they thought they were about to crash and die.
• 0:55
  Oh man. And then just like that, it
• 0:57
  shoots off. Unbelievable speed gone.
• 0:59
  And he heard this story growing up.
• 1:01
  He heard it from his mom, actually, when he was about 10.
• 1:03
  His grandparents, well, they didn't really like talking about
• 1:07
  it. Untenable, I guess.
• 1:08
  Yeah, I bet. And May 47, that puts it right
• 1:12
  before Roswell, right in Kenneth Arnold.
• 1:14
  Exactly. June 47 was Kenneth Arnold
• 1:16
  sighting the Flying Saucers, then Roswell in July, and even
• 1:20
  before that you had the Foo Fighters in World War. 2 So 47
• 1:24
  was kind of heating up. Big time.
• 1:26
  And there was all this speculation, Bigelow touches on
• 1:29
  it about whether, you know, dropping the atomic bombs, the
• 1:32
  nuclear tests. Like Hiroshima, Nagasaki, then
• 1:34
  the US and Soviet tests. Right.
• 1:37
  Whether that somehow like sent up a flare got their attention.
• 1:41
  The Trinity test maybe being the first big signal.
• 1:43
  So his family's crazy experience fits right into that whole
• 1:46
  historical moment. Yeah, it's not in a vacuum.
• 1:49
  It really grounds his interest, you know?
• 1:51
  OK, but it wasn't just his grand parents, he had his own weird
• 1:54
  stuff happen. He did, yeah.
• 1:55
  Starting pretty young, like 7 or 8.
• 1:57
  He calls them silly dreams, but they sound specific.
• 1:59
  Also, he kept seeing these three figures, short, robed, no real
• 2:06
  faces or hands or anything discernible.
• 2:09
  Just these shapes. OK, that's creepy.
• 2:11
  And the kicker is, this was before TV in Vegas.
• 2:14
  It wasn't like he was seeing aliens in comics or movies and
• 2:17
  then dreaming about them. Right, no cultural reference
• 2:20
  point for these images. Exactly made them totally
• 2:23
  inexplicable to him at the time. And he just bottled this up.
• 2:26
  For decades, didn't even tell his wife.
• 2:29
  It was only much, much later when he started researching
• 2:31
  abduction stories. OK, he started seeing parallels.
• 2:35
  He considered, you know, maybe there was a connection to those
• 2:37
  childhood things. But he also says he's kind of OK
• 2:40
  not knowing for sure. Prefers not to pin it down.
• 2:43
  That leads into the whole abduction topic.
• 2:45
  Then he mentions John Mack's work.
• 2:47
  Yeah, Mack used hypnotic regression and a lot of people
• 2:49
  describe similar scenarios. He also brings up the Roper
• 2:52
  pole. The one suggesting what a few
• 2:54
  percent of people had experiences that fit abduction
• 2:57
  patterns. Something like that.
• 2:58
  Yeah, a surprisingly large number if you take it at face
• 3:01
  value. But hypnotic regression?
• 3:04
  That's tricky territory, isn't it?
• 3:06
  The whole false memory debate. Absolutely.
• 3:07
  That's the big criticism, that the therapist, even
• 3:10
  unintentionally, could lead the person implant ideas.
• 3:13
  It's a real concern. So how does Bigelow square that?
• 3:16
  Well, he mentions working with hypnotherapist who are
• 3:19
  apparently super careful not to lead, and he observed subjects
• 3:22
  sometimes correcting the therapist's suggestions under
• 3:26
  hypnosis. Oh, interesting, like pushing
• 3:28
  back? Yeah, which he felt suggested
• 3:31
  maybe it wasn't all suggestion that there could be genuine
• 3:33
  recall happening. They also talk about screen
• 3:36
  memories. Right where the mind supposedly
• 3:38
  covers up a traumatic event with something more mundane.
• 3:42
  It's definitely complex, but you know what's really compelling?
• 3:45
  Comparing later accounts to the Betty and Barney Hill case.
• 3:48
  From the early 60s, yeah, before the whole alien abduction thing
• 3:52
  really hit pop culture. Precisely their descriptions,
• 3:55
  the beings they saw, the whole scenario.
• 3:57
  It predates all the movie tropes.
• 3:59
  That gives it a different kind of weight maybe.
• 4:01
  And then you look at Travis Walton's story decades later.
• 4:04
  And the similarities are just eerie.
• 4:07
  Different people, different times, but overlapping details.
• 4:11
  It makes you think you know. OK, let's shift to sightings
• 4:13
  people actually saw, like in public.
• 4:16
  Kenneth Arnold again. What exactly did he see?
• 4:19
  He was a pilot, a businessman, flying his plane near Mount
• 4:22
  Rainier. I think saw nine objects. 9 and
• 4:26
  they were saucer shaped. He described them more like
• 4:29
  boomerangs or manta rays, skipping like saucers on water,
• 4:33
  moving incredibly fast, way faster than any known aircraft.
• 4:36
  Then and he was a credible guy, right?
• 4:38
  A pilot knows what's normally up there.
• 4:40
  Exactly. Not easily fooled.
• 4:42
  His sighting really kicked things off publicly, and Bigelow
• 4:46
  points out there were other sightings later by military
• 4:49
  people high-ranking. Officers job it is to know
• 4:51
  what's flying around. He even mentioned something
• 4:52
  recent. Yeah, a text from Dan Crenshaw
• 4:54
  about American Airlines pilots reporting something spectacular.
• 4:58
  It keeps happening. And maybe we just hear about it
• 5:00
  more now. Everyone's he's got a camera
• 5:02
  phone. That's definitely part of it.
• 5:03
  Way more eyes on the sky, way more ways to record things
• 5:06
  compared to the 40s or 50s. Which brings us to the Phoenix
• 5:10
  Lights in 1997. That was huge.
• 5:13
  Massive thousands of people saw it.
• 5:16
  Not just little lights, but this enormous dark V shaped or
• 5:19
  boomerang shaped structure moving silently over the city.
• 5:23
  A structure, not just lights. That's a key distinction.
• 5:26
  Absolutely. People were describing something
• 5:29
  solid blocking out the stars way bigger than any conventional
• 5:32
  aircraft. And the news kind of downplayed
• 5:35
  it at first. It didn't get the wall to wall
• 5:36
  coverage you might expect initially.
• 5:38
  Then you had the governor, Fife Symington.
• 5:41
  Ohio Yeah, the weird press conference with the guy in the
• 5:43
  alien suit. What was that about?
• 5:44
  Trying to lighten the mood? Maybe.
• 5:47
  But years later, Symington admitted he saw the object
• 5:50
  himself. Called it otherworldly.
• 5:52
  Wow, so he saw it, knew it was real, but did the whole alien
• 5:55
  costume thing anyway. Seems like it, Bigelow suggests.
• 5:58
  It was probably Symington's personal call trying to prevent
• 6:01
  panic. Maybe not some big government
• 6:03
  conspiracy, Which? Gets us to the government angle.
• 6:05
  Are they hiding stuff? Why so quiet?
• 6:08
  Well the general thinking is if these things aren't ours and
• 6:11
  they aren't in other countries, then admitting that opens a huge
• 6:15
  can of worms, right? So reluctance is may be
• 6:18
  understandable. Until 2017, the New York Times
• 6:21
  article that felt like a shift. Huge shift front page story.
• 6:25
  Navy pilots like David Fraver talking about the Tic Tac
• 6:28
  encounter. Official Pentagon videos
• 6:31
  released. That had to change things.
• 6:33
  Definitely. It massively reduced the stigma.
• 6:35
  Suddenly it was OK for serious people, military pilots, to talk
• 6:39
  about this stuff publicly in a major newspaper.
• 6:42
  Made it much harder to just dismiss everything.
• 6:44
  And Bigelow sees that change filtering down even into
• 6:48
  science. He says so he thinks the
• 6:50
  scientific community is much less dismissive now than, say,
• 6:53
  20 or 30 years ago, more willing to at least consider the
• 6:56
  possibility. Maybe shows like Ancient Aliens,
• 6:58
  even if they're speculative, helped keep the conversation
• 7:00
  alive. Could be part of it, yeah.
• 7:02
  Just more exposure overall. Now Bigelow himself, he didn't
• 7:06
  just research UFO's, he built rockets or space habitats.
• 7:11
  Right, Bigelow Aerospace, it's kind of an amazing pivot from
• 7:14
  hotels and real estate to UF OS and then cutting edge space
• 7:20
  tech. Talk about following your
• 7:21
  interests. So the B330, what is that?
• 7:25
  It's an expandable space habitat.
• 7:26
  Think inflatable modules for space stations or maybe even
• 7:30
  lunar bases. They built full scale
• 7:32
  engineering units. Inflatable.
• 7:34
  Is that safe? Well, expandable is maybe a
• 7:37
  better word. It launches compressed and then
• 7:39
  expands. And yeah, they put tons of work
• 7:41
  into making it tough. COVID unfortunately hit the
• 7:43
  project hard, caused a shutdown. But the deck is real.
• 7:46
  Oh yeah, they actually have a smaller test module beam
• 7:49
  attached to the ISS right now. I've been there for years.
• 7:52
  TRL 9 top level readiness. And this whole idea started
• 7:55
  because NASA cancelled something similar.
• 7:57
  Exactly. NASA had a project called
• 7:59
  Transhab back in the 90s, canned it.
• 8:01
  Bigelow thought the concept was brilliant and basically decided,
• 8:04
  fine, I'll do it myself. Wow, did he just pick up NASA's
• 8:08
  plans? He got the license for the basic
• 8:09
  patent, but apparently they had to develop all the actual
• 8:12
  architecture, the engineering, everything from scratch took 20
• 8:15
  years. And the testing must have been
• 8:17
  intense. Oh absolutely.
• 8:18
  Leak tests, pressure tests, blowing them up intentionally to
• 8:22
  find weaknesses, even hyper velocity impact tests like
• 8:26
  shooting stuff at them really fast to simulate space debris.
• 8:29
  And radiation. Big problem in space.
• 8:32
  Yeah, the B330 hall is pretty clever.
• 8:34
  There are multiple layers of materials like Vectran with gaps
• 8:37
  in between. It's designed to break up and
• 8:40
  absorb radiation better than just a solid chunk of metal.
• 8:43
  Even worked with Robert Boussard, the fusion guy.
• 8:45
  Yeah, they collaborated on some fusion propulsion ideas.
• 8:48
  And get this Boussard apparently had his own lifelong UFO
• 8:51
  sighting experience, too. Small world, huh?
• 8:54
  So Bigelow's working with NASA on the habitats, but he says
• 8:58
  NASA isn't the place to go for UFO info.
• 9:01
  Pretty much. He's clear that while he learned
• 9:03
  a ton about conventional space stuff from NASA, the agency and
• 9:07
  most of the mainstream science world just isn't focused on UFOs
• 9:11
  or ET. Why not fear of ridicule?
• 9:13
  That's part of it. He suggests.
• 9:15
  Also just lack of time, resources.
• 9:17
  Scientists are focused on their specific research, their
• 9:19
  careers. Getting involved in UFO stuff
• 9:21
  can be risky professionally. He mentioned brown bagging.
• 9:24
  What's that? Like, scientists might be
• 9:26
  interested privately, maybe read books or articles at home brown
• 9:30
  bagging it, but they won't talk about it openly at work.
• 9:33
  Don't want to jeopardize their reputation.
• 9:35
  Which leads to this feeling of frustration, like the tech in
• 9:39
  these UFO reports is just so far beyond us.
• 9:42
  Yeah, he uses the analogy of us still being at the fire engine
• 9:45
  stage compared to whatever propulsion these things might
• 9:48
  have. It's a vast gap.
• 9:49
  Even with guys like Musk and Bezos pushing rocketry forward.
• 9:53
  He respects what they're doing immensely, but acknowledges it's
• 9:55
  still fundamentally conventional tech compared to, you know, the
• 9:59
  Tic Tacs maneuvers or something. We're just not there yet.
• 10:02
  Not even close. Maybe.
• 10:03
  OK, let's pivot to someone really controversial.
• 10:05
  Yeah, Bob Lazar and Area S4. Right.
• 10:09
  This starts with the kind of funny story Bigelow tells about
• 10:12
  being out in the desert near Area S4 with Lazar and George
• 10:16
  Knapp the journalist. The Mylar balloon incident,
• 10:18
  Yeah. They let go a radar reflective
• 10:20
  balloon just messing around and apparently it caused quite a
• 10:23
  stir. Scrambled Security shows how
• 10:26
  sensitive that area is. So Lazar's claim he worked
• 10:30
  inside Area S4 back engineering alien craft.
• 10:34
  That's the core of it, said He. Worked on propulsion systems.
• 10:37
  Encountered element 115. Which wasn't officially
• 10:40
  discovered back then, right? Only theoretical.
• 10:42
  Exactly. That's a key part of why some
• 10:44
  people find his story compelling.
• 10:46
  He also claimed he got kicked off the project partly because
• 10:49
  they found out his wife was having an affair which he didn't
• 10:51
  even know, and they worried about his stability.
• 10:54
  And then he went public, took people out to watch alleged test
• 10:58
  flights. Right.
• 10:58
  It's an absolutely wild story, Bigelow says.
• 11:01
  He was skeptical at first. But he came around.
• 11:04
  He says over time, and especially seeing George Knapp's
• 11:07
  investigative work digging into Lazar's background and claims
• 11:11
  he's become more inclined to believe there's truth to it.
• 11:13
  What about element 115? Does Bigelow know its
• 11:16
  properties? He doesn't claim detailed
• 11:18
  knowledge, just notes the significance of Lazar naming a
• 11:20
  theoretical element that was later synthesized.
• 11:23
  And the holographic book Lazar saw some kind of 3D info
• 11:26
  display. Yeah, another really out there
• 11:29
  detail supposedly showed historical info.
• 11:31
  Including the idea that humans were genetically engineered by
• 11:36
  aliens using primates. That's what Lazar claimed was in
• 11:39
  the book, that our evolution was accelerated or guided.
• 11:44
  A pretty staggering concept if true.
• 11:46
  Which kind of loops into thinking about humans generally.
• 11:49
  We are pretty weird compared to other animals on earth.
• 11:52
  Our tech obsession. Yeah, that constant drive to
• 11:55
  tinker, to make better stuff. Yeah.
• 11:58
  Where is it all heading? They touch on the technological
• 12:00
  singularity idea. The point where AI or tech just
• 12:03
  zooms past our control. Potentially, and the concern
• 12:06
  Bigelow raises is our wisdom, our ethics, our spiritual side
• 12:10
  keeping pace. He uses the Klingon analogy.
• 12:13
  Tech savvy, but maybe not so mature otherwise, right?
• 12:16
  Are we becoming like that, so focused on the gadgets and the
• 12:19
  power that we forget about the, you know, the internal stuff of
• 12:22
  the values? Doesn't seem like we're making
• 12:24
  huge strides in balancing the two, does it?
• 12:26
  That's a worry. The gap might be widening.
• 12:28
  OK, so from UFOs and advanced tag, the conversation shifts
• 12:31
  again to something maybe even more fundamental.
• 12:34
  The second Holy Grail, as Bigelow calls it.
• 12:37
  Besides, are we alone? The other huge question is does
• 12:42
  consciousness survive death? Mind versus brain, Does anything
• 12:46
  of us carry on after the body stops?
• 12:48
  It's the ultimate question, right?
• 12:50
  Driven by loss, by curiosity, by wondering what happens next.
• 12:54
  Pretty much every culture and religion has tried to answer it.
• 12:57
  But can you approach it scientifically or is it always
• 13:00
  just belief? That's the challenge.
• 13:02
  How do you measure or prove something like that?
• 13:04
  They talk about near death experiences, Ndes.
• 13:07
  Yeah, the common reports people have after being clinically dead
• 13:10
  and revived feelings of peace, leaving the body, seeing lights,
• 13:13
  meeting beings. But couldn't that just be the
• 13:15
  brain doing weird things as it shuts down DMT release or
• 13:19
  something? That's definitely a counter
• 13:20
  argument. They acknowledge that some
• 13:22
  psychedelic drugs can mimic aspects of Ndes, like the story
• 13:25
  about Larry Hagman taking LSD and losing his fear of death.
• 13:28
  But Bigelow points to the sheer number of NDE reports millions
• 13:32
  worldwide, across cultures, and specifically the out of body
• 13:36
  experience differences OBE's. Where people report seeing
• 13:39
  things they shouldn't have been able to see, like details of
• 13:41
  their own resuscitation from a viewpoint above their body.
• 13:44
  Exactly. Cases where people supposedly
• 13:46
  recall verifiable details from while they were unconscious.
• 13:50
  Those are harder to explain away, just as brain chemistry.
• 13:53
  But interpreting them is still tough.
• 13:55
  Language fails. Maybe beliefs color the memory?
• 13:59
  For sure, and people are often afraid to even talk about them.
• 14:01
  Fear of ridicule is huge. So how could you get proof
• 14:06
  verifiable information? That's the key, they suggest.
• 14:10
  Could someone bring back specific information during an
• 14:13
  NDE that they couldn't possibly have known otherwise?
• 14:16
  That would be compelling. Which leads inevitably to
• 14:19
  psychics and mediums. Always a touchy subject.
• 14:22
  Yeah, Rogan is understandably skeptical here.
• 14:25
  Lots of fraud in that field. But Bigelow doesn't dismiss it
• 14:28
  entirely. No, he believes some are
• 14:29
  genuinely gifted. Calls them world class
• 14:31
  performers in a way. Thinks it's possible to get
• 14:34
  verifiable info, but you need to find legitimate ones.
• 14:38
  He says he knows one who does readings for free.
• 14:40
  Yeah, mention someone he considers very good who doesn't
• 14:44
  charge, which he sees as a sign of sincerity.
• 14:47
  They even joke about why so many mediums seem to be women.
• 14:51
  OK, what about automatic writing?
• 14:54
  That's where someone writes supposedly without conscious
• 14:56
  control, may be guided by a spirit, or in a trance.
• 14:59
  Seen it in movies, does it happen?
• 15:02
  There are lots of accounts, some historical, of people producing
• 15:05
  sophisticated texts, sometimes in languages they don't know.
• 15:08
  Bigelow hasn't done it himself, but knows the literature.
• 15:11
  Easy to fake though, right? Subconscious writing.
• 15:14
  Absolutely, but again, the claim is that sometimes verifiable
• 15:18
  information comes through that the writer shouldn't know.
• 15:21
  They mentioned cross correspondence too.
• 15:23
  It's that like multiple mediums unaware of each other receive
• 15:27
  fragmented messages that only make sense when put together.
• 15:30
  Suggests an external source. Still sounds hard to prove
• 15:33
  definitively. Could be telepathy between
• 15:36
  living people like Musk wants to do with neurolink.
• 15:38
  Right. You need really rigorous testing
• 15:40
  to rule out other explanations. It's incredibly complex.
• 15:44
  All this LED Bigelow to start his own thing right?
• 15:46
  B ICS. Yep, the Bigelow Institute for
• 15:49
  Consciousness Studies formed just last year, he said,
• 15:52
  specifically to fund and encourage research into
• 15:56
  consciousness survival. Why start his own institute?
• 15:59
  Apparently he'd pitched research to another organization and got
• 16:02
  turned down, so he decided to just create the platform
• 16:04
  himself. And the first big splash is this
• 16:07
  essay contest. Yeah, best evidence for the
• 16:10
  afterlife. Huge prize money, half a million
• 16:13
  for first place. Wow, who can enter?
• 16:16
  People with relevant backgrounds, clergy, paranormal
• 16:19
  TV producers, detectives who've used mediums, academics and
• 16:22
  related fields. They want serious attempts to
• 16:25
  compile evidence. 25,000 word limit judged by a panel of
• 16:28
  experts. OK, evidence.
• 16:30
  What's the standard? He compared it to court beyond a
• 16:33
  reasonable doubt. He did draw that analogy,
• 16:35
  focusing on credible witnesses and evidence.
• 16:37
  But Rogan pushed back, right. Proving murder is different from
• 16:40
  proving the afterlife. We know murder happens.
• 16:42
  The afterlife is. Unknown.
• 16:44
  Exactly. It's not an apples to apples
• 16:46
  comparison. The baseline reality is
• 16:48
  different. How did Bigelow respond?
• 16:50
  He focused on the idea of acquiring information you
• 16:53
  shouldn't possibly know. Said that kind of specific
• 16:56
  verifiable data point should be considered strong evidence.
• 17:00
  And he shared a personal story. About a medium mentioning
• 17:03
  specific music played for his wife when she was dying in the
• 17:06
  hospital, music he himself had forgotten about.
• 17:09
  He found that very specific detail compelling, offered to
• 17:13
  connect Rogan with the medium. So where do they land on belief
• 17:18
  versus skepticism? Rogan mentioned the James Randi
• 17:21
  challenge. Right, Rogan stated his view
• 17:23
  clearly open mind, but needs solid proof and as far as he
• 17:27
  knows, no psychic has ever passed a truly rigorous
• 17:31
  scientific test like Randy offered.
• 17:33
  Bigelow didn't agree. He argued the Randy challenge
• 17:35
  wasn't always fair or properly designed.
• 17:38
  Basically, they agreed to disagree on whether definitive
• 17:40
  proof exists yet. But Bigelow still invited Rogan
• 17:43
  for a reading. Yeah, put the offer out there.
• 17:45
  Let him judge for himself, OK? Complete change of pace.
• 17:48
  What's this about a Lamber doodle?
• 17:50
  Yeah, that's Bigelow's nickname for his car, an orange
• 17:52
  Lamborghini Urus. An SUV?
• 17:54
  Lambeau. Yep.
• 17:56
  Super fast, 640 horsepower, all-wheel drive.
• 18:00
  He finds it more controllable than his Corvette Stingray,
• 18:03
  which he says has almost too much power.
• 18:05
  Russell Peters has one, too. Apparently Bigelow actually
• 18:08
  bought 21 to keep one to auction for charity for the Cleveland
• 18:11
  Clinic gala run by Larry Ruvo. Expensive car though.
• 18:15
  Nice. OK, back to the weird stuff.
• 18:17
  Physical evidence. Middle fragments from crashes.
• 18:20
  Yeah, that old chestnut reports of weird alloys, super thin
• 18:24
  layered material, stuff that seems beyond what we can make.
• 18:28
  But no definitive proof it's alien.
• 18:30
  No big press conference. Nope.
• 18:32
  It's usually described as anomalous material.
• 18:35
  Understudy maybe, but no consensus or official
• 18:38
  confirmation of extraterrestrial origin.
• 18:41
  Just weird stuff. Speculation about what it was
• 18:43
  for. Maybe part of a craft?
• 18:44
  A bowl was mentioned. Still mostly stories and
• 18:47
  anecdotes like Lazar's. Pretty much the concrete,
• 18:50
  publicly verifiable stuff is thin on the ground.
• 18:52
  And the idea is this stuff might be held by corporations or
• 18:55
  governments. Yeah, as corporate treasure or
• 18:57
  national treasure. Yeah, hugely valuable if you
• 19:00
  could figure out how it works and replicate it.
• 19:02
  Maybe they pull it out every few years, see if our tech is caught
• 19:05
  up enough to understand it. That's the speculation, but
• 19:08
  maybe even now we're still way behind whatever tech is embodied
• 19:12
  in those materials. What about bodies?
• 19:14
  The Roswell story always includes bodies.
• 19:16
  It does and they touch on that plus the Jackie Gleason story.
• 19:19
  Gleason and Nixon. Nixon showed him alien bodies at
• 19:22
  a base. That's the legend.
• 19:24
  Supposedly Gleason was shaken up, even tried to recreate what
• 19:28
  he saw in his backyard later. Who knows if it's true, but it's
• 19:30
  a persistent story and. The pilot, Papi Henderson, flew
• 19:34
  wreckage and bodies from Roswell.
• 19:36
  Another piece of the Roswell lore details like small coffins
• 19:40
  being ordered, the size of the debris field, questions like why
• 19:43
  use two planes to fly debris if it was just a weather balloon.
• 19:46
  It all adds to the mystery. So after all this UF OS
• 19:50
  consciousness strange materials, where does Bigelow stand on like
• 19:56
  a God force, a creator? He keeps an open mind, basically
• 20:00
  says I don't think it's impossible.
• 20:01
  Admits he doesn't know what caused The Big Bang.
• 20:04
  Leaves room for mystery. Which fits, right?
• 20:06
  Acknowledging the limits of our knowledge seems key to exploring
• 20:09
  all this stuff. Absolutely.
• 20:11
  Whether it's UFOs or consciousness, there's so much
• 20:13
  we just don't understand yet. So wrapping this up, quite a
• 20:17
  journey we took there following Rogan and Bigelow from that
• 20:20
  family UFO story in 47. Through his own weird dreams,
• 20:24
  The whole abduction debate, Credible sightings like Phoenix.
• 20:26
  His aerospace work, the B 330, The skepticism about NASA and
• 20:31
  UFOs. Bob Lazar, Element 115 The
• 20:33
  Nature of Consciousness ND ES mediums.
• 20:36
  All the way to the BICS essay contest, trying to find evidence
• 20:40
  for the afterlife. It's a massive range of topics.
• 20:42
  Really covers the big questions, doesn't it?
• 20:44
  Are we alone and what happens when we die?
• 20:46
  Plus, what tech might be out there?
• 20:48
  We tried to pull out the highlights for you, give you a
• 20:50
  sense of the conversation from his grandparents shock to his
• 20:53
  own deep dives into these mysteries.
• 20:56
  Yeah, the personal drive behind his interest is clear, both with
• 20:58
  UFOs and consciousness, and the BACS contest shows he's putting
• 21:03
  serious resources into that second question now.
• 21:05
  Definitely encourage you. If you're intrigued to keep
• 21:07
  digging, maybe check out the original JRE episode.
• 21:10
  Think critically about all this. And maybe a final thought to
• 21:12
  leave you with If even some of this stuff is real, the advanced
• 21:16
  tech hinted at by UFO's, the deep puzzle of consciousness
• 21:20
  maybe surviving death, what does that mean for how we see the
• 21:24
  world? What basic ideas about reality
• 21:26
  might need a serious rethink?