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Hell and Gone Murder Line: Jennifer Harris · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

0:46
Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
0:52
Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite
0:55
Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially
0:58
Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights
1:03
Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be
1:06
Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
1:10
Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has
1:14
Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
1:17
Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
1:21
Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
1:24
Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
1:30
Speaker 2: On Sunday May twelfth, two thousand and two, Mother's Day evening,
1:34
Speaker 2: twenty eight year old Jennifer Harris had spent the day
1:36
Speaker 2: with her family, and at six point thirty pm that night,
1:39
Speaker 2: she arrived at her friend Christy Farr's house in their hometown.
1:43
Speaker 3: Of Bond, Texas.
1:45
Speaker 2: Bonham is in the northeast corner of the state, near
1:47
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma border. It was a rainy night, and Jennifer
1:51
Speaker 2: and Christy were just relaxing and swapping recipes until around
1:55
Speaker 2: eight pm. Apparently, Jennifer was wanting to make chicken spaghetti
1:59
Speaker 2: when Jennifer told Christy that she had to go. Over
2:03
Speaker 2: the years, Jennifer's family has publicly stated they believe she
2:07
Speaker 2: was leaving to meet someone, but it's impossible to know
2:11
Speaker 2: for sure. Jennifer, who was living with her grandmother temporarily
2:17
Speaker 2: in Bonham, never came home. Later that night, a neighbor
2:22
Speaker 2: walking their dog down a deserted country road twenty six'
2:25
Speaker 2: ten Near Bonham lake saw a soft top green jeep
2:30
Speaker 2: abandoned off the side of the. Road the neighbor didn't
2:34
Speaker 2: think too much about it until the next, Day may,
2:36
Speaker 2: thirteenth when they walked their dog again and saw the vehicle.
2:39
Speaker 2: Again after realizing that green jeep had been sitting out
2:44
Speaker 2: there all, night the neighbor called the police to report.
2:47
Speaker 2: It the police ran the plates and determined that this
2:51
Speaker 2: Was Jennifer harris's. Cheap After jennifer went, missing her Father,
2:57
Speaker 2: jerry a marine And vietnam, veteran started scouring the county back,
3:01
Speaker 2: roads getting more and more desperate and sleeping only a
3:06
Speaker 2: few hours per. Night while he was out driving the dirt.
3:09
Speaker 2: Roads he even admitted that he looked for buzzards because
3:13
Speaker 2: he believed that they could lead him to his daughter's.
3:15
Speaker 2: Remains that is a horrifying thing for any parent to
3:19
Speaker 2: have to think, about But jerry was determined to keep
3:22
Speaker 2: looking until his daughter was. Found six days, later a
3:27
Speaker 2: fisherman Found jennifer's naked body floating in The Red. River
3:32
Speaker 2: more than two decades, Later jennifer's murder remains. Unsolved I'm Catherine.
3:39
Speaker 2: Townsend over the past eight years of making my true crime,
3:42
Speaker 2: Podcast Helling, Gone i've learned that there's no such thing
3:46
Speaker 2: as a small town where murder never. Happens i've received
3:50
Speaker 2: hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking
3:53
Speaker 2: for help with an unsolved murder that's affected, them their,
3:56
Speaker 2: families and their. Communities if you have a case you'ld
3:59
Speaker 2: like me and my team to look, into you can
4:01
Speaker 2: reach out to us at Our Helen Gone Murder line
4:04
Speaker 2: at six seven eight seven four four six one four.
4:07
Speaker 2: Five that's six seven eight seven four four six one four,
4:11
Speaker 2: five or you can send us a message On instagram
4:14
Speaker 2: At hell and. Gonepod this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line
5:03
Speaker 2: after the fishermen made that gruesome, discovery police started their.
5:06
Speaker 2: Investigation jennifer was found In, oklahoma but because she went
5:11
Speaker 2: missing from The texas, Side Fannin county got the case On,
5:16
Speaker 2: Monday may, thirteenth after the green jeep was found abandoned
5:19
Speaker 2: on that country. ROAD cbs reported that the vehicle was
5:22
Speaker 2: parked down the road from a local music venue called The.
5:25
Speaker 2: Hodown jennifer's sister Told forty Eight hours that when she
5:30
Speaker 2: got the call about the car being, found she remembered
5:33
Speaker 2: wondering Why jennifer would leave her vehicle in that. Spot
5:38
Speaker 2: the case went to The Texas, rangers and they have
5:41
Speaker 2: said very little publicly about, it given almost no details
5:46
Speaker 2: other than confirming the location near the, lake for. Example
5:49
Speaker 2: they didn't say anything else about the condition of the,
5:52
Speaker 2: cheap including whether there was blood found in, it or
5:54
Speaker 2: signs of a, struggle or answering questions like were the
5:58
Speaker 2: doors locked or? Unlocked were her keys? Inside we do know. That,
6:02
Speaker 2: unfortunately police didn't realize that the jeep belonged to a missing,
6:07
Speaker 2: person so they towed it before they went through it for.
6:10
Speaker 2: Evidence jennifer's body was in the water for six days
6:15
Speaker 2: before it was pulled out and forensically. Examined her body
6:18
Speaker 2: was badly, decomposed and the medical examiner couldn't determine exactly
6:22
Speaker 2: how she had, died but a Former Fannin county lieutenant
6:26
Speaker 2: who became a private investigator and worked With jennifer's, Family Darryl,
6:29
Speaker 2: parker Told forty Eight hours That jennifer had a hugely
6:33
Speaker 2: swollen right, eye and he said since bruising can't happen post,
6:38
Speaker 2: mortem he believed that this was evidence that someone Hit
6:41
Speaker 2: jennifer in the. Head the condition Of jennifer's body meant
6:46
Speaker 2: that medical examination was. DIFFICULT cbs reported that the medical
6:50
Speaker 2: examiner could not establish a precise cause of. Death, however
6:54
Speaker 2: the Official Texas rangers listing stated that the medical examiner
6:58
Speaker 2: labeled the cause of death as homicidal.
7:01
Speaker 3: Violence so Did jennifer park her car?
7:04
Speaker 2: There or did someone else park her car where it
7:07
Speaker 2: was found? Later is there more About jennifer's movements that
7:11
Speaker 2: we can figure out from the location of her body
7:14
Speaker 2: and her?
7:14
Speaker 3: Car?
7:15
Speaker 2: ALSO i wondered Could jennifer's body have floated to where
7:19
Speaker 2: she was? FOUND i found out the answer is probably.
7:23
Speaker 2: Not The Texas Water Development board Describes Lake bonham as
7:27
Speaker 2: being On Timber, creek which is a tributary of another
7:31
Speaker 2: creek that's a tributary of The Red, river so there
7:34
Speaker 2: is a watershed. Connection but from the, map it appears
7:39
Speaker 2: that a body could not reasonably float From Lake bonham
7:42
Speaker 2: through those creeks to The Red.
7:43
Speaker 3: River that would be.
7:45
Speaker 2: A really different and much less plausible, path involving smaller, waterways,
7:49
Speaker 2: obstructions shallow, areas and a lot of. Distance so based
7:53
Speaker 2: on the, geography the more plausible scenario is that someone
7:57
Speaker 2: Placed jennifer's body in The Red, river likely upstream of
8:01
Speaker 2: or near where she was later, recovered and the current
8:03
Speaker 2: moved her until that fisherman found. Her The Red river
8:08
Speaker 2: forms the northern boundary Of Fannin, county and it flows
8:11
Speaker 2: generally eastward along The Texas oklahoma, Border so if her
8:15
Speaker 2: body was found on The oklahoma, side that is consistent
8:19
Speaker 2: with her body being placed in the river or along a.
8:21
Speaker 3: Bank and then moving with the.
8:23
Speaker 2: Current so was the location of the cheap a meeting
8:28
Speaker 2: point while the body disposal happened separately on The Red.
8:32
Speaker 2: River Jerry, Harris jennifer's, father has stated to media That
8:36
Speaker 2: jennifer's car keys were never. Found he said back in
8:40
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine that he had raised some questions
8:43
Speaker 2: about crucial evidence that he claimed was, missing including a
8:46
Speaker 2: set of keys that he believed could have Been jennifer's and.
8:50
Speaker 2: CLOTHING a few days After jennifer, disappeared a man found
8:55
Speaker 2: a set of. Keys he told detectives the keys had been,
8:58
Speaker 2: found and he left them on his porch for detectives to.
9:02
Speaker 2: Take he later said they were removed from where he placed,
9:05
Speaker 2: them yet they were never entered as. Evidence Jerry harris
9:09
Speaker 2: said the description of those keys seemed to match the
9:13
Speaker 2: keys That jennifer, carried And jerry felt like the place
9:16
Speaker 2: where the keys were left may provide details about Where
9:20
Speaker 2: jennifer was. Assaulted While jerry was searching the area after
9:24
Speaker 2: his daughter went, Missing jerry found something. Else he found
9:28
Speaker 2: clothes he feels might have belonged to his daughter in
9:31
Speaker 2: a creek along The Red.
9:32
Speaker 3: River according TO.
9:34
Speaker 2: Wfaatv jerry said he found a, blouse, jeans and a,
9:38
Speaker 2: bra and he said he had turned all that clothing
9:41
Speaker 2: into the sheriff's, office and somehow all of those items.
9:45
Speaker 2: Disappeared christie's house was Near Lake, bonham Where jennifer's jeep was,
9:51
Speaker 2: found but investigators haven't explained Whether jennifer left her car
9:55
Speaker 2: there and got into a vehicle with someone, else or
9:58
Speaker 2: if they believe that whoever was meeting her that night
10:01
Speaker 2: might have met her. There so really there are two
10:04
Speaker 2: crime scenes and forty Eight hours reported That Darryl, parker
10:08
Speaker 2: THE pi who worked With jennifer's, family talked about another
10:11
Speaker 2: clue that he believed could help narrow down Where jennifer
10:14
Speaker 2: went into the. Water he said investigators found blue mud
10:19
Speaker 2: On jennifer's, body mud that he Claimed fisherman said occurred
10:23
Speaker 2: in only two spots on the river within several, miles
10:26
Speaker 2: which he believed could point toward a narrower section of.
10:29
Speaker 2: Riverbank the geography does suggest that the jeep and the
10:34
Speaker 2: body recovery scene may not be the same, spot and
10:37
Speaker 2: the real question is who would have had reason and
10:40
Speaker 2: ability to move Between Lake Bonham COUNTY roa twenty six
10:44
Speaker 2: ten and The Red River disposal area before, that, though
10:49
Speaker 2: we need to back up and try to figure out
10:51
Speaker 2: who would want to Kill Jennifer harris and. Why jennifer
10:57
Speaker 2: was born On october twenty, third nineteen seventy, three In.
11:00
Speaker 2: Bonham she spent her whole life In Fannin county with her, Mother,
11:04
Speaker 2: alicia her younger Sister alissa and her, Father. Jerry jennifer was.
11:09
Speaker 2: Striking she had red hair and brown, eyes and was
11:12
Speaker 2: popular and athletic At Bonham High, school where she played
11:15
Speaker 2: tennis and was a. Cheerleader there was a forty eight
11:19
Speaker 2: hours episode about this case a few years back in
11:21
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen Called murder on The Red. River they Interviewed
11:25
Speaker 2: jennifer's younger, Sister, alissa who Remembered jennifer as being, funny,
11:29
Speaker 2: affectionate and she said larger than, life a little Like Lucille.
11:33
Speaker 2: Ball alissa Said jennifer was. Restless she described her as a.
11:39
Speaker 2: Dreamer she Said jennifer wanted to move out of her
11:42
Speaker 2: small town to a bigger. City of, course police began
11:46
Speaker 2: looking into what was going on In jennifer's life at
11:48
Speaker 2: the time she went Missing, anne who was connected to,
11:50
Speaker 2: her and it turned out That jennifer had a messy love.
11:54
Speaker 4: Life she had a.
11:56
Speaker 2: Complicated relationship with two, men her ex Husband Rob holman
12:00
Speaker 2: and her ex Boyfriend James. Hamilton both men voluntarily spoke with,
12:06
Speaker 2: investigators and neither of these men have been arrested or
12:09
Speaker 2: charged in connection With jennifer's, death And james And rob
12:14
Speaker 2: have both completely denied any involvement in her. Killing Rob
12:18
Speaker 2: holman Was jennifer's first. Love they started, dating according to
12:22
Speaker 2: forty Eight, hours when she was in the sixth or seventh.
12:24
Speaker 2: Grade they fell in love and were together all through high,
12:27
Speaker 2: school but after high School jennifer And rob seemed to
12:31
Speaker 2: have different. Plans jennifer did end.
12:34
Speaker 3: Up leaving her.
12:34
Speaker 2: Hometown she moved away to go to college At STEPHEN.
12:37
Speaker 2: F Austin State university In nakadochi's where she got her
12:41
Speaker 2: bachelor's degree in aquatic biology and her master's degree in,
12:44
Speaker 2: kinesiology wellness and. Attrition according to her, obituary she also
12:49
Speaker 2: had an interest In Native american. Culture, Eventually jennifer moved To,
12:54
Speaker 2: dallas And, rob who worked as a, landscaper joined her
12:57
Speaker 2: there and they got. Married they bought a house together In,
13:01
Speaker 2: dallas But rob seemed to never really feel at home,
13:04
Speaker 2: there and they argued Because rob wanted to move back To,
13:08
Speaker 2: Bonham jennifer wanted to stay In. Dallas this is all
13:12
Speaker 2: according to what her family told forty Eight. Hours her
13:16
Speaker 2: Sister elisa told forty Eight hours that she believed That
13:19
Speaker 2: jennifer was quote growing and evolving and moving forward in
13:23
Speaker 2: her life And rob was stuck and he just wasn't
13:25
Speaker 2: going to change end. Quote jennifer had always been into, health, pilates,
13:31
Speaker 2: yoga and, hiking and she decided to go to school
13:34
Speaker 2: to become a massage.
13:35
Speaker 3: Therapist rob went back To.
13:37
Speaker 2: Bonham jennifer was In dallas at massage, school and it
13:40
Speaker 2: was while she was in school.
13:42
Speaker 3: That she Met James.
13:43
Speaker 2: Hamilton alyssa said That jennifer And james fell in, love
13:47
Speaker 2: but there was a. Problem according To forty Eight, Hours
13:51
Speaker 2: james already had a girlfriend and they had a child,
13:55
Speaker 2: together and his girlfriend was pregnant with their second, child
13:58
Speaker 2: so when they first became, Involved james was still living
14:01
Speaker 2: with his pregnant girlfriend And jennifer was still married To.
14:04
Speaker 2: Rob rob told police That jennifer was hot tempered and
14:09
Speaker 2: that she was the one who would go off on,
14:11
Speaker 2: him not the other way. Around he said she would
14:14
Speaker 2: try to hit, him and he would sometimes grab her
14:17
Speaker 2: and try to restrain. Her the following clips are From
14:20
Speaker 2: Rob holman's interview on forty Eight. Hours not temper were
14:25
Speaker 2: very generally her way. Nowhere sometimes they grab, her wrap her.
14:32
Speaker 1: Up and keep.
14:33
Speaker 2: Hid jennifer And rob split, up and she And james
14:38
Speaker 2: opened a massage studio and wellness therapy center together In, Frisco,
14:42
Speaker 2: texas and Eventually james And jennifer moved in. Together, Now
14:47
Speaker 2: jennifer And james were more free to be. Together they
14:50
Speaker 2: had started a business together and now they were partners
14:52
Speaker 2: at work as well as in. Life but things didn't
14:55
Speaker 2: stay blissful for. Long jerry said That james wanted to Marry,
14:59
Speaker 2: jennifer but she was more, hesitant So jennifer And james got.
15:04
Speaker 2: Together jennifer And rob, divorced But jennifer And rob were still. Talking,
15:10
Speaker 2: Meanwhile jennifer's relationship With james was becoming more. Rocky their business,
15:15
Speaker 2: failed which Led jennifer to have financial problems and file for.
15:19
Speaker 2: Bankruptcy jennifer told at least one family member that she
15:24
Speaker 2: started talking To rob, again but again there was a
15:27
Speaker 2: complication Because rob was seeing someone else and had a new.
15:31
Speaker 2: Girlfriend rob later told police that even though he was
15:35
Speaker 2: in a new relationship in living with his, girlfriend that Since,
15:39
Speaker 2: christmas in the five months Before jennifer went, missing that
15:42
Speaker 2: he And jennifer had had sex several times four five.
15:46
Speaker 2: Times it was fruit. Yeah police also Asked rob if
15:51
Speaker 2: he had Seen jennifer on the last day that she was,
15:53
Speaker 2: Alive may. Twelfth rob said, no but he did say
15:58
Speaker 2: That jennifer had called him On Mother's day and wanted
16:01
Speaker 2: to see, him but he said that he said he
16:03
Speaker 2: couldn't do. It rob said that he had plans with
16:06
Speaker 2: his girlfriend that. Day he had plans For gril friend
16:11
Speaker 2: she get re up six d Mother.
16:14
Speaker 1: Jay how would come.
16:15
Speaker 2: Over rob told investigators that he deliberately stayed out that
16:21
Speaker 2: day to avoid meeting up With jennifer and to avoid any.
16:23
Speaker 2: Conflict police looked Into james And rob's alibis For may.
16:28
Speaker 2: Twelfth james told police that he was fifty miles Away adam,
16:31
Speaker 2: McDonald's but police later admitted there was some question about
16:36
Speaker 2: Whether james's alibi had been properly. Vetted james also reportedly
16:41
Speaker 2: took and passed a lot of detector Test rob's alibi
16:45
Speaker 2: was harder to verify because he told police that during
16:48
Speaker 2: the crucial window of time When jennifer went missing on
16:52
Speaker 2: the night Of may, twelve that he was out driving
16:55
Speaker 2: around and according to the interview reported by forty Eight,
16:58
Speaker 2: Hours rob told police that he went to buy some
17:01
Speaker 2: beer and then went over to a friend's, house but
17:04
Speaker 2: he said those friends weren't, home so he just kind
17:07
Speaker 2: of drove around. Aimlessly rob said that he was out,
17:11
Speaker 2: alone driving around on back roads for several. Hours when
17:15
Speaker 2: police asked if he had Seen, Jennifer rob said, no
17:18
Speaker 2: but Later rob said that he had seen a jeep
17:22
Speaker 2: near a stop sign and blinking traffic. Light he said
17:25
Speaker 2: that it was in front of him and coming from.
17:27
Speaker 2: Town rob told investigators that he saw that jeep right
17:31
Speaker 2: before he headed to buy.
17:33
Speaker 3: BEER i was on eight ninety.
17:35
Speaker 2: Eight didn't, stop so sadly. Elmthrop THEN i turned over
17:40
Speaker 2: she could promo to.
17:41
Speaker 3: Come up from table while.
17:43
Speaker 2: It investigators were Questioning rob and trying to put all this,
17:47
Speaker 2: Together they figured out there might have been something else
17:50
Speaker 2: On jennifer's. Mind on That Mother's, day a friend Of
17:54
Speaker 2: jennifer's told police That jennifer had told her that she
17:58
Speaker 2: was pregnant and that the baby Was.
18:01
Speaker 4: Rob's rob admitted to.
18:16
Speaker 2: Police That jennifer had told him that she was pregnant
18:19
Speaker 2: with his, child but he said that it wasn't on that.
18:22
Speaker 2: Day rob Said jennifer had told him she was pregnant
18:26
Speaker 2: about a month before she went. Missing he claimed That
18:29
Speaker 2: jennifer had not looked pregnant to him at the. Time
18:31
Speaker 2: she said, that and he said he did not believe
18:34
Speaker 2: that she was expecting a.
18:35
Speaker 4: Baby she told him that she was pregnant in this.
18:38
Speaker 2: Time did you believe she was? PREGNANT i didn't think she.
18:43
Speaker 2: About forensic experts were not able to confirm whether or
18:48
Speaker 2: Not jennifer was pregnant Because jennifer's uterus was. Missing this
18:54
Speaker 2: led to more rumors flying around because some media coverage
18:58
Speaker 2: has Described jennifer's uterus as being cut out or, removed
19:02
Speaker 2: but that would seem to imply That jennifer's uterus was
19:05
Speaker 2: cut out or removed by her, killer which is a shame,
19:09
Speaker 2: because in my, opinion those sensational headlines take away from
19:13
Speaker 2: the facts of the case and they have the potential
19:16
Speaker 2: to get people off. Track forensic examination In dallas would
19:20
Speaker 2: later conclude That jennifer's missing uterus was not cut, out
19:25
Speaker 2: but that her uterus and other body parts were destroyed
19:28
Speaker 2: by animal, activity primarily river. Turtles but that didn't stop
19:33
Speaker 2: people in a small town from saying that it was
19:36
Speaker 2: the killer that had cut out her, uterus and that
19:39
Speaker 2: was not the only erroneous and graphic rumor that spread
19:43
Speaker 2: about this. Case there were a lot of rumors about
19:46
Speaker 2: who the father Of jennifer's baby could, be and some
19:49
Speaker 2: of them weren't about her ex husband or her ex.
19:51
Speaker 2: Boyfriend some of them were actually focused on the district
19:55
Speaker 2: attorney at the, Time Miles. Porter Miles porter was in
19:59
Speaker 2: charge Of jennifer's. Case he later Told forty Eight hours
20:03
Speaker 2: that he had heard rumors that he had been romantically
20:05
Speaker 2: involved With jennifer and that because of that he supposedly
20:09
Speaker 2: intentionally botched the, case which he insisted was completely. Untrue
20:13
Speaker 2: he said he had never even Met. Jennifer miles explained
20:17
Speaker 2: that some people in town had a grudge against him
20:20
Speaker 2: because they didn't like the way you'd handled a case
20:22
Speaker 2: in the, past and so they made rumors up to hurt.
20:25
Speaker 3: Him which he said.
20:27
Speaker 2: Worked he said that because of the rumors About jennifer's,
20:31
Speaker 2: case he basically had to leave his. Job other than
20:35
Speaker 2: the possible, pregnancy was there anything else going on In
20:39
Speaker 2: jennifer's life that could have led to her being a.
20:41
Speaker 2: Target when police Asked rob if his new girlfriend knew
20:46
Speaker 2: about the baby or That jennifer was claiming to be,
20:48
Speaker 2: Pregnant rob said, no but In rob's interview with, Police
20:54
Speaker 2: rob told investigators That jennifer had stated to him multiple
20:58
Speaker 2: times she was going over To rob's girlfriend's house to
21:01
Speaker 2: tell her about the. Baby but, Again jennifer's conflict With
21:05
Speaker 2: rob was not the only conflict that had happened in
21:08
Speaker 2: her life. Recently for, Example jennifer's father wondered could there
21:12
Speaker 2: have been a financial motive For jennifer's. Homicide she had
21:16
Speaker 2: recently had the massage business that she ran With james go,
21:20
Speaker 2: under And jennifer was the one who had signed off
21:22
Speaker 2: on all the, loans so losing that money meant that
21:25
Speaker 2: she had to file for.
21:26
Speaker 3: Bankruptcy while forty.
21:29
Speaker 2: Eight hours was investigating back in twenty, eighteen they talked
21:32
Speaker 2: To Joe, mora an investigator and consultant FOR cbs who
21:36
Speaker 2: looked into this. Case Joe morris said that he found
21:39
Speaker 2: a lot of irregularities in the, investigation including the fact
21:43
Speaker 2: that when police were Questioning Robin, james they mirandized both
21:47
Speaker 2: men before the, questioning which he said was unheard. Of
21:51
Speaker 2: And joe pointed out another piece of evidence that he
21:54
Speaker 2: believed may have been. Crucial one year After jennifer's, MURDER
21:59
Speaker 2: a woman Named Deborah, lambert who had seen a news
22:01
Speaker 2: report about the unsolved, case told detectives she had been
22:05
Speaker 2: driving across The Red River bridge On Mother's day when
22:09
Speaker 2: she saw a young woman with reddish brown hair and
22:11
Speaker 2: two men who she said were restraining the woman and
22:15
Speaker 2: holding her by her. Elbow deborah said she made eye
22:19
Speaker 2: contact with the woman and that the woman had a
22:21
Speaker 2: scared look on her, face and that her, mom who
22:24
Speaker 2: apparently was also in the vehicle with, her said that
22:27
Speaker 2: girl's fixing to get raped and, killed but Neither deborah
22:31
Speaker 2: nor her mother called the. Police she later said she
22:34
Speaker 2: was afraid to get involved and the timing seemed to
22:37
Speaker 2: be a little bit. Off deborah said that she had
22:39
Speaker 2: seen this trio at a round FIVE, pm but detectives
22:42
Speaker 2: believed That jennifer left her friend's house hours later at
22:46
Speaker 2: around EIGHT. PM a year and a half After jennifer's,
22:51
Speaker 2: murder The Texas rangers launched their own investigation into the,
22:54
Speaker 2: case and as part of their, investigation they Brought Deborah
22:58
Speaker 2: lambert in to talk to. Her they asked her to
23:01
Speaker 2: do a police. Lineup police Asked deborah if she recognized
23:04
Speaker 2: any of the men in the, lineup and according to
23:06
Speaker 2: forty eight, hours she Identified Rob. Holman but without the case,
23:11
Speaker 2: file it's not clear exactly how the lineup was done
23:15
Speaker 2: if they followed proper, procedure so it's really hard to
23:20
Speaker 2: know how much weight to put on a police. Lineup
23:24
Speaker 2: in two thousand and, five The Texas rangers suspended their
23:27
Speaker 2: investigation because they said they had no physical, evidence no
23:31
Speaker 2: specific cause of, death or credible. Witnesses then in twenty,
23:35
Speaker 2: Seventeen Sheriff Mark johnson said That rob And james were
23:40
Speaker 2: the two people who he considered to be at the
23:43
Speaker 2: top of his investigative, list but, again Neither rob Nor
23:47
Speaker 2: james were. Charged there's a lot we don't know about
23:51
Speaker 2: How jennifer. Died some reports have said homicidal violence with,
23:55
Speaker 2: strangulation but investigators did openly wonder If jennifer's pregnancy could
24:02
Speaker 2: be a possible. Motive because If jennifer was, pregnant who
24:06
Speaker 2: did she believe the father, was which brings us back
24:10
Speaker 2: to one of the central questions of the. Investigation one
24:13
Speaker 2: of the only things that police have made public is
24:16
Speaker 2: that they Believe jennifer was meeting someone that.
24:18
Speaker 3: Night the question is.
24:20
Speaker 2: Who in twenty, Seventeen the case got another public boost
24:27
Speaker 2: when the New Fannin County, Sheriff Mark johnson took a
24:30
Speaker 2: look At jennifer's. Case Mark johnson said publicly he was
24:35
Speaker 2: shocked when he.
24:35
Speaker 3: Saw that case.
24:36
Speaker 2: File he described it as being, thin with very few documents.
24:40
Speaker 2: Inside he learned that over the, years evidence had been
24:43
Speaker 2: stored in, pods and some of those, pods which were
24:47
Speaker 2: apparently kept behind the police, station, leaked meaning that tragically
24:52
Speaker 2: records and evidence got water. Damaged some items were completely.
24:56
Speaker 2: Destroyed the sheriff attributed at least part of that failure
25:01
Speaker 2: to the department's inexperience and to inadequate. Training but then
25:05
Speaker 2: there were the other pieces of, evidence Like jennifer's laptop
25:09
Speaker 2: and her cell phone that weren't.
25:11
Speaker 3: Damaged they were just.
25:12
Speaker 2: Gone there was a podcast Called Final days On earth
25:17
Speaker 2: that covered what allegedly happened to the. Laptop Darryl parker
25:21
Speaker 2: spoke to the host of that, Podcast Clara, santamont and
25:24
Speaker 2: said that the laptop had been turned over to THE.
25:26
Speaker 2: Fbi Nancy grace appeared On The Doctor Phil, show and
25:31
Speaker 2: On Doctor, Phil Nancy gray said That jennifer had kept
25:35
Speaker 2: a diary on her laptop and that the contents of
25:38
Speaker 2: that diary could have been. Crucial Darryl parker stated that
25:43
Speaker 2: SOMETIME i after the laptop was given from THE fbi
25:45
Speaker 2: back To Fannin, county the computer was.
25:47
Speaker 3: Lost what happened to that?
25:50
Speaker 2: Laptop jennifer's Sister alisa told Doctor phil that the former
25:55
Speaker 2: sheriff asked their family if he could keep their, laptop
25:58
Speaker 2: and that her dad had said, no and then the
26:01
Speaker 2: sheriff apparently asked if he could take over payments For jennifer's. Jeep,
26:05
Speaker 2: obviously this is only one side of the, story but
26:08
Speaker 2: this is a very strange set of. Circumstances this brings
26:13
Speaker 2: us back to the other evidence that seemed to disappear as,
26:15
Speaker 2: well the, keys the clothes That, Jerry jennifer's dad, found
26:20
Speaker 2: and Also jennifer's cell. Phone Sheriff johnson said his office
26:24
Speaker 2: was later able to recover some documents from the missing electronic,
26:28
Speaker 2: devices but nothing that's been made public makes clear whether
26:32
Speaker 2: this meant, backups printed, records recovered, files or something. Else
26:37
Speaker 2: in two thousand and, two forensic extraction was far less
26:40
Speaker 2: advanced than it is, today but if those devices had been,
26:45
Speaker 2: preserved this could have allowed later investigators to use technology
26:49
Speaker 2: that didn't exist When jennifer, died and the missing clothing
26:52
Speaker 2: is equally troubling because it could have contained blood or, fibers,
26:57
Speaker 2: seamen hair, TOUCH, dna river, soil or other types of
27:02
Speaker 2: trace evidence linking it to a person or a. Location but,
27:05
Speaker 2: again without the, evidence modern testing becomes, impossible meaning that
27:09
Speaker 2: that evidence that might have answered crucial questions is. Gone
27:14
Speaker 2: So Sheriff Mark johnson went public in twenty, seventeen fifteen
27:20
Speaker 2: years After jennifer's, Murder Sheriff johnson took the unusual step
27:24
Speaker 2: of publicly naming the two people that he said his
27:28
Speaker 2: office considered the primary, Suspects Rob holman And James.
27:32
Speaker 3: Hamilton Sheriff johnson.
27:34
Speaker 2: Said the public needed to know who investigators were, examining
27:38
Speaker 2: and that those two names remained at the top of his.
27:41
Speaker 2: List the case did not go to a grand, jury
27:45
Speaker 2: and there was no arrest or indictment or, trial and
27:48
Speaker 2: the sheriff's statements didn't clarify what evidence that they found
27:51
Speaker 2: that he believed connected either man to the. Crime, also
27:55
Speaker 2: it was a little bit. Confusing was he saying that
27:58
Speaker 2: these two men were the only, suspects or was he
28:02
Speaker 2: somehow suggesting That jennifer's boyfriend and her ex husband acted.
28:05
Speaker 2: Together everyone wondered why.
28:08
Speaker 3: He named those two.
28:09
Speaker 2: Men was it because there was evidence that the police
28:12
Speaker 2: had that was not public or simply because those were
28:16
Speaker 2: the two men Who jennifer had been involved. With the
28:19
Speaker 2: sheriff told a local news station That James hamilton had
28:23
Speaker 2: taken and.
28:24
Speaker 3: Passed a lie detector.
28:25
Speaker 2: Test so If James hamilton's alibi held, up why did
28:30
Speaker 2: the sheriff continue to list him as a possible. Suspect
28:33
Speaker 2: and If Rob holman's account was, suspicious why was no one?
28:38
Speaker 2: Charged what corroborating evidence did police. Have Darryl parker And
28:43
Speaker 2: Nancy grace went On The Doctor Phil show in twenty
28:46
Speaker 2: twenty five to talk about the case, again and as
28:49
Speaker 2: part of that, Segment darryl drove the same route That
28:52
Speaker 2: jennifer drove the day she. Disappeared after she Left christie's
28:55
Speaker 2: house at eight. Pm at around eight oh, four her
28:59
Speaker 2: jeep was seen At highway two seventy three at an.
29:01
Speaker 2: Intersection that was the intersection That rob said he saw
29:06
Speaker 2: her turn right at at the four way stop. Sign
29:09
Speaker 2: he said at that point he turned. Left darryl said
29:13
Speaker 2: he believes That jennifer drove the jeep to the place
29:16
Speaker 2: where it was. Found part he believes that she met
29:19
Speaker 2: her killer there and that she got into her killer's
29:22
Speaker 2: vehicle and went to a secondary location where she was ultimately.
29:25
Speaker 2: Murdered Doctor phil reported That rob had also told the
29:30
Speaker 2: police that he offered to pay for an, abortion so
29:33
Speaker 2: he was asking why Would rob do this if he
29:36
Speaker 2: didn't truly believe she was. Pregnant along With Daryl parker
29:40
Speaker 2: And Jerry, harris other members Of jennifer's, family Including jennifer's
29:44
Speaker 2: Sister alissa and her Husband Barry, warning started digging into
29:47
Speaker 2: the case as. Well barry worked on a documentary Called
29:51
Speaker 2: justice For. Jennifer he TOLD Cbs news that he interviewed
29:55
Speaker 2: people who had not been questioned by law enforcement during
29:58
Speaker 2: the initial, investigation and he said he followed new, leads
30:02
Speaker 2: including one about a clue that the family believes law
30:05
Speaker 2: enforcement ignored one that they believe could be. Crucial daryl
30:10
Speaker 2: Told forty Eight hours that the blue moral mud found
30:13
Speaker 2: On jennifer's body could be found at a cottage that
30:17
Speaker 2: he said was in the area Where jennifer's car was,
30:19
Speaker 2: found And daryl said that that caretaker's cottage burned to
30:23
Speaker 2: the ground the night That jennifer went Missing may. Twelfth
30:40
Speaker 2: darryl has stated that he believes the cottage is connected
30:43
Speaker 2: To Jennifer's he believed she may have met her killer,
30:46
Speaker 2: there and that after she was, killed that the killer
30:48
Speaker 2: or killers burned down the cottage to hide. Evidence he
30:52
Speaker 2: told forty Eight hours that he and a crew had
30:54
Speaker 2: come to the remains of the.
30:55
Speaker 3: Cottage they excavated.
30:57
Speaker 2: And drained a, wealth but in the end they found
30:59
Speaker 2: nothing relevant to the. Investigation jennifer's, Father, jerry went public
31:05
Speaker 2: and appealed to the media for. Help in twenty, fifteen
31:08
Speaker 2: he stated at a press, conference, QUOTE i am convinced
31:11
Speaker 2: she knew and trusted the person who killed. Her she
31:15
Speaker 2: had a definite plan to meet someone at eight pm
31:18
Speaker 2: On Mother's, Day, Sunday may. Twelfth she knew and trusted that,
31:22
Speaker 2: person and they killed.
31:23
Speaker 3: Her end.
31:24
Speaker 2: Quote jerry seemed to give a clue when he, said,
31:28
Speaker 2: quote we do not know whether she was going to
31:31
Speaker 2: meet the boyfriend or the ex. Husband i'm sure it
31:33
Speaker 2: was one of those. Two they were the only two
31:36
Speaker 2: she had any interest in at.
31:37
Speaker 3: All end.
31:38
Speaker 2: Quote of, course we don't know for sure That rob
31:43
Speaker 2: And james were the only two men Whom jennifer was talking.
31:46
Speaker 2: To there could have been someone she was involved with
31:49
Speaker 2: who no one knew, about maybe someone she wrote about
31:52
Speaker 2: in her, diary but because that evidence was, lost we
31:56
Speaker 2: might never know for. Sure jerry also addressed back in
32:00
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen the question of Whether jennifer was pregnant or, not, stating,
32:04
Speaker 2: Quote jennifer had been taking pregnancy tests at the time
32:07
Speaker 2: of her death because the strips were still in her
32:10
Speaker 2: bathroom end. Quote When jerry was doing his media, outreach
32:15
Speaker 2: he also spoke to THE tv show Called. Justice but,
32:18
Speaker 2: apparently even though the district, Attorney Richard, glazer had stated
32:22
Speaker 2: he was willing to accept any help to solve the,
32:24
Speaker 2: case The Fannin County sheriff refused to share evidence with the.
32:28
Speaker 2: Show why would The Fannin County sheriff's office refuse free
32:33
Speaker 2: help after all this? Time the Current Fannin County, Sheriff Donnie,
32:37
Speaker 2: foster said that too many hands on the evidence could
32:40
Speaker 2: jeopardize the, case, saying, quote my goal is to preserve
32:44
Speaker 2: the evidence entrusted with. Me this is just my, opinion
32:49
Speaker 2: BUT i think this statement is pretty. Ironic in light
32:52
Speaker 2: of how the evidence has been handled so, far because
32:55
Speaker 2: we're talking about evidence that has been, mislabeled, mishandled and
32:59
Speaker 2: lost multiple. Times jerry stated, that in his, opinion the
33:04
Speaker 2: police department was embarrassed about their handling of the case
33:08
Speaker 2: and worried that their mistakes would be made. Public this
33:10
Speaker 2: is only one person's, opinion but it did Cause jerry
33:14
Speaker 2: to start circulating a petition for people to sign to
33:17
Speaker 2: support police sharing the evidence with the show Called. Justice
33:22
Speaker 2: jerry never stopped working toward finding answers About jennifer's. Death
33:26
Speaker 2: he stated many times that he hoped That jennifer's case
33:29
Speaker 2: would be solved during his. Lifetime sadly, though this did
33:33
Speaker 2: not come to. Pass On june, fourth twenty twenty, Four
33:37
Speaker 2: jerry went to the parking lot of The Fannin County
33:40
Speaker 2: sheriff's office and at around nine thirty, am he fatally
33:43
Speaker 2: shot himself in the head and died by. Suicide officials
33:48
Speaker 2: said he left three. Letters one was addressed To Mark.
33:52
Speaker 2: Johnson according to a local news, Station jerry's death had
33:56
Speaker 2: nothing to do with the handling Of jennifer's. Case jerry
33:59
Speaker 2: wrote that he was tired of dealing with his health,
34:01
Speaker 2: problems and that he had chosen that location in front
34:03
Speaker 2: of The sheriff's office because he believed it would make
34:06
Speaker 2: it easier for him to be found and for emergency
34:09
Speaker 2: personnel to. Respond But jerry's death did seem to be
34:13
Speaker 2: part of the tragic ripple effect that happened After jennifer's.
34:17
Speaker 2: Murder the sheriff has stated that he hoped that the
34:22
Speaker 2: county's cold cases would receive fresh reviews using modern, technology
34:26
Speaker 2: but that doesn't explain how they could test evidence that
34:29
Speaker 2: was lost or destroyed by. Water, meanwhile The Texas rangers
34:33
Speaker 2: still List Jennifer harris's case as. Unsolved anyone with direct
34:38
Speaker 2: information can Contact Texas Crime stoppers at one eight hundred
34:42
Speaker 2: twenty five to two tip or submit information through The
34:46
Speaker 2: Texas Rangers cold case. System jennifer's sister and the rest
34:50
Speaker 2: of her family believe that even if crucial evidence has been,
34:53
Speaker 2: lost that someone knew Where Jennifer harris was going that,
34:57
Speaker 2: night why her jeep was left On County road twenty six,'
35:01
Speaker 2: ten and where and how she, was killed and they
35:05
Speaker 2: hope that after twenty, four years someone may finally be
35:09
Speaker 2: willing to Explain How jennifer harris ended up floating in The.
35:13
Speaker 2: Red River I'm. Catherine townsend This Is Helen Gone. Murder
35:18
Speaker 2: Line Helen gone murderline is a Production of School of
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Speaker 2: Humans And. iHeart podcasts it's written and narrated By Me
35:25
Speaker 2: catherine townsend and Produced By Etily's perez special Thanks To
35:29
Speaker 2: amy tubbs for her research Assistance And james wheaton for.
35:33
Speaker 2: Legal review noah camer mixed and scored. This episode our
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