Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Cinematography With Giuseppe Abba | The Christian Reeve Podcast #254

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Cinematography With Giuseppe Abba | The Christian Reeve Podcast #254 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to another episode of the Christian Reeve Podcast.
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  content and bonus podcast content?
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  How about that? Okay, I've had my fun.
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  But seriously, if you want to support the show, it really,
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  really helps us out. So thank you so much and thanks
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  again for listening. Hello, and welcome to another
• 0:52
  episode of the Christian Reef Podcast.
• 0:54
  Today's guest is a filmmaker, cinematographer, writer and much
• 0:58
  more. His name is Giuseppe Abber.
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  He's a good friend of mine. Welcome to the show.
• 1:01
  How you doing? I'm good, man.
• 1:03
  Thanks for having me. I'm really.
• 1:04
  Yeah, I'm really excited to be here.
• 1:06
  Yeah, I don't skimp on my intros for my friends.
• 1:09
  Everyone gets the same treatment.
• 1:11
  I've been excited to get you on the show for some time and I
• 1:15
  obviously I said this on camera, but I guess it's a long time
• 1:18
  planning. I plan to get you on, plan to
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  get Dan on. And there's other people I have
• 1:22
  like in my peripheral I'm thinking about.
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  And it's like, I don't know, it's kind of strange, but like
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  when I first started doing the podcast, you know, naturally
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  you'd get people you know on like, you know, and I'd also get
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  like strangers as well. And then I just didn't do that
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  for the longest time. And now I'm kind of like, oh,
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  no, why? Why shouldn't I do that?
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  You know, like, because I think I've established over the years
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  that, like, I can have a conversation with anyone, and
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  especially anyone that's willing to have a conversation.
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  Plus, I don't know, I feel like there's a lot of stories here.
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  I feel that there's a lot of stories we can tell within our
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  industry. And also just like the personal
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  story, which is something I really like to kind of try to,
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  to get out of people. With the recent rebrand of the
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  podcast, it's basically I'm trying to position myself as the
• 2:07
  interviewer, the the interviewer.
• 2:12
  That's an attempt at branding. I don't know because I've never
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  really been able to figure out what the branding for this show
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  is other than life stories, big discussions and everything in
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  between. So.
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  Nothing's hard. Running's hard to get right.
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  It takes it takes a lot of trial and error I think.
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  Do you have, do you have like a particular way that you
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  approached it with your company? Because obviously you you were
• 2:34
  doing commercial cinematography and stuff like that for some
• 2:39
  time. So how long did you do that
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  actually? So I did that.
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  Well, I realised when I sat down, I've got the mug here.
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  I've got like company mug there. We go nice.
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  So we had that company. Well, it's still running.
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  My friend's still running it, but doing.
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  I did that for five, just over five years.
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  But I guess I did I did that kind of that kind of work
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  commercial work like that for about 7 in total.
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  Because basically I I left college when I was like just
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  turned 19 I think or 18. No, 19.
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  And when all my other friends went off to uni and and and did
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  what not you know film or otherwise, I I basically didn't
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  want to be in education anymore. So I kind of I'm Bernard and I
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  like didn't really know what to do for a few months.
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  And then I I went, I went travelling for a bit which which
• 3:41
  helps which sounds really like really wanky I went travelling
• 3:46
  was like app. Yeah, but like they.
• 3:47
  They does, man, I think. It does, they say.
• 3:50
  Travel broadens the mind, as they say.
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  Yeah yeah it helped a lot. And yeah then so basically I
• 3:59
  just got back to the uki was like right what do I do?
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  Don't have a job, not a college anymore and I just was like well
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  I'm going to give you know give being self-employed a go and and
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  just see if that works and and so and so technically I did that
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  for like a year while still living at my mum's house so I
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  could I could like trial you know being freelance and being
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  self-employed whilst not really having any bills to pay which is
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  nice. And then and then moved to
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  Manchester and then like Lake Style online set up for the
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  company. So that was a long way of saying
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  I did it for about 6-7 years. But how did you brand it?
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  How did you go about getting that work?
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  Because I know that you did a lot of work, for example, like
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  you do video packages for sale like a school or something like
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  maybe like a hello. It's the open day.
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  So you do like drone shots and you do like, I don't know, I
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  guess like panning shots and stuff like that, interviews,
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  that kind of thing. Like how did you go about
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  getting your business? At the start it was very much a
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  case of of just calling in favours just just like saying to
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  people that me and my business partner time knew like our old
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  college tutors were were some of them friends family members.
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  You know, the the nice thing about, you know, just having a
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  good circle people around you is that you do stuff like that and
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  that you know, your family and your friends like Oh well, let
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  us know if we can help. So, so at the start I was very
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  much, you know, getting small jobs from from those kind of
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  contacts and then I think that kind of sets a kind of a good
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  bar. We kind of got a good, I don't
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  know, five or six kind of pieces of work that we could then, you
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  know, it kind of basically just like slowly snowballed from
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  that. And there was obviously there
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  was like, it wasn't all like instant.
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  There was a lot of false start. There's a lot of like there'll
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  be like a period of three months where we'll be like, oh wow,
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  we're really busy. This is great.
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  We've only just started and then it would like be dead for like a
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  few months. Like I remember we went we went
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  and worked in a in a canning factory like just this temp work
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  because we were just like we just need some money and but
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  like so you know that sort of stuff it would like stop and
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  start and stop and start but then like eventually we we kind
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  of through the IT was it was basically just all through
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  contacts that we that we had professional or not.
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  And just as we did more work it would just the contacts would
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  slowly start getting like a bit more professional a bit better.
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  And you know and after like a year or so we weren't taking
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  work from like we were we weren't having work that was
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  like given to us by like you know by like my Gran going Oh my
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  friend you know has this thing and she knows this person And so
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  it was not that's the kind of the way we branded ourselves
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  other than not like the logo and stuff but like the work that we
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  did was never really it was never really an intentional
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  decision to be like this is the kind of work we're going to do.
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  What this is how we're going to kind of market ourselves as like
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  you know this is the sort of stuff we do.
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  It was just it was just from from getting that kind of work
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  initially which went well. This is this is working and we
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  can clearly do this and people are clearly responding well to
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  it. So we just kind of went from
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  there. I know exactly what you mean
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  because like I mentioned before, I sort of joked about the fact
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  that like with branding of what I'm doing, it's it's tricky.
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  And I think the the reason why is because it kind of changes
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  all the time, you know what I mean?
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  Like with with what you were laying out there, you know,
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  first it was like calling in favours.
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  And then it becomes like, you know, you get a few gigs and
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  you're like, oh, we've done a few gigs like this now maybe
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  this is our thing. And then suddenly you get
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  something that's a bit left field.
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  And then it kind of challenges you and you're like, oh, and
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  then and then the kind of opportunities and like the way
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  you visualise what this thing is changes and you're like, oh,
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  maybe it could be this, maybe it could be this and so.
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  On and so forth. Totally.
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  And and also sometimes you try something and it doesn't work
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  like we tried. You know a classic thing that
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  you know probably hundreds, probably thousands of people do
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  in the kind of the videography, cinematography game is, is like
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  wedding work. And we tried, yeah, we tried our
• 8:35
  handle like wedding videography for a while.
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  And again that that sort of came out of a friend of Matthew's
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  saying like, you know, Oh no, you've just started this
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  business. We need a wedding videographer,
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  You know, can you come do it for us?
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  And so obviously they're looking to pay a bit less, but we're
• 8:50
  looking for, for work and develop a portfolio.
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  So it kind of works both ways. So like, yeah, brilliant, great.
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  So we did well. Matthew did one of those and I
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  did one and then it basically we we got like a few weddings under
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  our belt in the first year or so and we we were like we can we
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  can kind of like brilliant let's let's get on top of this let's
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  try and like start you know not not exclusively marketing
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  ourselves as like a wedding video business but we thought
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  this isn't like an it's all about different avenues to kind
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  of go down. We thought, here's what we'll
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  explore this, and we went to a a wedding fair.
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  Wedding fair? Yeah, So there's there's
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  basically like like you'd have a careers fair in a school or a
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  college where like businesses come in and basically like I'll
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  try and sell themselves and say hey come on or so come and do an
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  apprenticeship at our business, you know, for them it's
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  essentially that idea. But everyone who every kind of
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  side of every business side of a wedding will go to wedding fan,
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  try and sell their service. So caterers.
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  Oh, of course, Yeah. No, I.
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  Don't know what they're called, but like people who make the
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  wedding dresses, event organisers and you know, then
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  people like us. So we went to this wedding fair
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  and had like our own stall. We'd put lots of work into it.
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  We had like, you know, you know, there's big banners that fall
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  down into little cylinders, but you get them up.
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  And they oh, you always have trouble like with those because
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  they oh. Yeah, yeah.
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  They're always like, yeah. And they're and they're
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  expensive for what they are we but we we like had a we had two
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  of those with our like branding like with our like package deals
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  on we had we had like a laptop set up of like our previous work
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  it it looked pretty good actually we got photos somewhere
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  but we and we paid it. You know you pay a certain
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  amount to be there with the view of you know making that back and
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  have many commissions you get and and we got none from that.
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  And so I think we did like another couple of weddings later
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  down the line because they just sort of popped up.
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  But we we kind of fairly quickly like abandoned that trying to
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  like market ourselves to that audience.
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  Yeah, I want to quiz this a little bit.
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  I mean, did I hear that right before as well?
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  You said that they paid a little bit less.
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  I think the initial, yeah, they're like the initial person.
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  Oh, OK. OK.
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  More of more because of what I was talking about before where,
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  you know, you can set up like someone look at someone's about
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  to get married, they're looking for a, you know, someone to film
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  the wedding. But then they're like, Oh, well,
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  my family friends just started this thing so that, you know,
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  like, they can pay less than, like, you know, for a proper
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  professional. Well, I guess the way I'm
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  looking at it, I just want to quiz your brain about wedding,
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  like shooting weddings for a bit because I just think this is
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  fascinating from a work perspective because obviously a
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  lot of the gigs that you do, like you show up to a venue, you
• 11:58
  get set up, you do the stuff, you know, you throw the shit in
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  the car and leave, right. Whereas a wedding, I mean, fuck
• 12:05
  me, you're there all day, like, because that's the thing, you
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  get there. And I presume they want to get
• 12:10
  the ceremony recorded. So you're there for the ceremony
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  and like everyone wants to get married probably in summer, so
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  you have to wear a suit. You have to, we'll see a higher
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  out suit. Then you film, you get up early,
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  go to whatever location it is, film all through that.
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  And the ceremony. I mean, OK, some people get it
• 12:29
  quick, which is great. Some people like to have the for
• 12:31
  like 2 hours of just endless hymns and endless just you know,
• 12:37
  sweating in a in a church. I'm just thinking of my auntie's
• 12:42
  wedding when I was like 10 years old.
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  We were all dressed in suits and boiling in like the middle of
• 12:48
  summer. Oh dude, it was the worst.
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  Like I was. I was happy she was getting
• 12:53
  married. Like, you know, brilliant.
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  But I man, was I suffering. Like I'd be.
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  But let us, if I ever get married, I'd really loved it to
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  just be a quick like, do you? I do.
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  Do you? Yeah.
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  Do I love you? I love you.
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  Great. We're married.
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  And then let's go party. Let's get fucking hammered.
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  You know what I mean? Like, and so you do that and
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  then obviously it's photos and everything and filming that and
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  then boom, you go to the party. My point with this with laying
• 13:20
  this out is that your work day must be insanely long for a
• 13:29
  wedding. It is, yeah.
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  I mean, everything you were saying just there was, I was
• 13:32
  just like nodding and smiling because you're completely right.
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  It's it's exactly all those things.
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  It's it's a it's an insanely long day.
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  It's it's extra hard work because there's there's so much
• 13:46
  to capture and also with with with most of it aside from like
• 13:51
  the guests mingling about and stuff because there's always
• 13:54
  there's loads of footage of that for most of it you've only got
• 13:57
  one shot like you know in in basically any other piece of
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  work aside from like an event you can basically you can go up
• 14:07
  to someone or you can go to a few people and say sorry guys
• 14:10
  can you just do that again because I can't go up like the
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  you know you can't go up to them in the middle of the ceremony
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  and go sorry can you just. Yeah, you said I do.
• 14:21
  But can you just say that again? Because I need to go over there
• 14:23
  and get that from like a white like you can't do.
• 14:26
  Can you just say it in a more convincing manner for me?
• 14:29
  Yeah. Yeah, can you just and actually
• 14:30
  can everyone here, can you all like act as if they haven't said
• 14:33
  it yet and that doesn't work? So, so it's like there's a lot
• 14:37
  of pressure on you because obviously it's someone's really
• 14:39
  special day so you don't want to be responsible for for fucking
• 14:43
  it up. But, but yeah, it's it's
• 14:47
  insanely long, you know, with a few exceptions generally, like
• 14:50
  the longest one that I had, I think we were there for like
• 14:54
  half eight in the morning because you've got the bridal
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  prep, you've got the, oh, geez, yeah.
• 15:02
  And the groom. I mean, usually there's more,
• 15:04
  there's more for the bridal prep.
• 15:05
  The groom's just like get together as mates.
• 15:10
  There's there's like everything leading up.
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  Like the the longest one we did was that there was like they
• 15:15
  wanted. There was they had like a like
• 15:20
  it was a lovely idea. Like they wanted like shots of
• 15:25
  of them like walking down this country lane going to somewhere
• 15:27
  where like from like the bride's like childhoods.
• 15:32
  Like she was like with a with a family.
• 15:34
  And it was it was all really lovely and it's all really great
• 15:36
  ideas. But there was that there was
• 15:42
  there was like going there was basically everything going to
• 15:44
  the venue and then there was the actual ceremony which is, which
• 15:47
  is obviously long. And then you've got there's and
• 15:51
  then in between that there's mingling of guests because
• 15:54
  you've got to get like the the the bride, like arriving but
• 15:58
  like from their point of view. So it's kind of like coming down
• 16:01
  this track and then we're going wow, wow, look, she looks
• 16:03
  amazing. And then you've got.
• 16:05
  Can I just interject for a second?
• 16:06
  So basically because obviously as you just laid out there, a
• 16:10
  lot of the time you have to you, you only get the one chance.
• 16:14
  So you have to do a lot of guess work as far as where's the best
• 16:17
  place for me to film? This.
• 16:18
  Oh yeah, completely, yeah. And it's rare that you get a
• 16:21
  recce as well because because it's such a long day and there's
• 16:27
  so much involved and usually the person, the people want several
• 16:31
  edits of, you know, so they want like a highlights reel.
• 16:35
  They want the full ceremony. They want the speeches, they
• 16:37
  want blah, blah, blah, blah. So normally what your what your.
• 16:40
  It just comes down to cost. And normally what what they're
• 16:43
  paying is is so much that you, you know if you say to them oh
• 16:47
  actually can I I need to go and do a recce of everything to
• 16:50
  figure out where the best shots, you know, where's the best place
• 16:52
  to be. So that'll take me half a day
• 16:54
  and I'm going to do that two weeks before.
• 16:55
  So can you pay me for another half day they're going to go.
• 16:57
  No, because they're already because I mean they've already
• 17:00
  spent however much on weddings or insane.
• 17:03
  You know, and generally in my experience the the videographer
• 17:10
  is and I don't know if this is maybe this is not normal, maybe
• 17:15
  this maybe we just kind of got the short end of the short of
• 17:18
  the stick. But short on the stick, short,
• 17:20
  short straw. Well, basically we kind of
• 17:23
  always seem to get hired quite last minute.
• 17:27
  So, you know, the couple have already spent most their budget.
• 17:31
  And so when it came to hiring us, it was always very much
• 17:34
  like, oh, we've only got this amount of money.
• 17:36
  So it was always part of our job to like figure out what we
• 17:41
  could, you know, like what we could do for what they had.
• 17:44
  And it wasn't. It wasn't ever like, you know
• 17:46
  nothing. But I got, I got to quiz you on
• 17:49
  this, man, because we've obviously established that it's
• 17:52
  a long day. There's all this set up, there's
• 17:55
  all this shit you have to do, right?
• 17:57
  But I won't ask you for numbers, but.
• 18:00
  I can give you numbers. I I can just, you know.
• 18:01
  Was it what? Why?
• 18:03
  What else was was it worth? Do it?
• 18:05
  Because I imagine in my head like at least a 12 hour day,
• 18:07
  probably more. You're running around, you know,
• 18:11
  let's face it, you can't really get drunk or have a good time,
• 18:15
  you know, because you got film, everything.
• 18:17
  Yeah, you can. You can sneak.
• 18:18
  You can sneak a couple in. It depends.
• 18:20
  It depends. You can.
• 18:22
  It's risky, though. It's.
• 18:24
  So it's so dependent on. I'll answer your question but
• 18:26
  it's it's so dependent on on who you get because like one wedding
• 18:30
  I did was for like a friend of a friend kind of he was like he
• 18:38
  was like someone that I knew a little bit wouldn't really class
• 18:43
  him as a friend I guess but he but he's a really lovely guy and
• 18:45
  but he's basically like a friend of his and and so that wedding
• 18:49
  was they were really chilled out.
• 18:51
  The bride and groom were really lovely and they were they kept
• 18:55
  like coming up to us and saying like are you guys OK is there
• 18:57
  anything you need. You're looking after us.
• 19:00
  Which is amazing because it's their special day and they've
• 19:01
  got all their family and friends around them.
• 19:04
  And then towards the end and then I remember like at the end
• 19:06
  of the day they were like oh we because we we only had to they
• 19:12
  only wanted like their first dance filming and then that was
• 19:15
  it. They didn't want any of like
• 19:18
  because a lot of time people will want the first dance and
• 19:20
  then obviously because it's important.
• 19:21
  But then they'll want like all the family, everyone dancing,
• 19:24
  everyone getting pissed and smashed and blah, blah and you
• 19:26
  know, having a good time. This this couple were like, we
• 19:29
  don't want that. We just want the first dance and
• 19:31
  we're not first. And at the end they they came up
• 19:33
  to us and I'm like, you know, thank you so much.
• 19:35
  You've been great. Feel free to stay for a couple
• 19:38
  of drinks if you want. You know, basically they're just
• 19:42
  like just, you know, if you want to head off, no problem.
• 19:44
  But also stay and like have a bit of a nice time.
• 19:48
  And so I remember that one we stayed and I went up to the bar
• 19:51
  and and the guy who like again, it was quite early on my
• 19:54
  business. The guy who like got me the
• 19:56
  work, the guy I knew was like, oh mate, I'll buy you a drink
• 20:00
  and you know, like had a couple of shots at the bar.
• 20:03
  So like that, you know, it can happen like that.
• 20:06
  It it it, it's entirely because the wedding is so personal.
• 20:08
  It just entirely depends on the people.
• 20:10
  This is what I want to ask you about as well.
• 20:12
  Is it because I know you're a professional, so I know you
• 20:16
  would deal with this well anyway, but like is it weird
• 20:19
  working at an event that's so personal?
• 20:23
  Because obviously you must constantly be aware that like
• 20:26
  everyone here even knows each other or is aware of each other,
• 20:29
  etcetera. You're, you know, a worker at
• 20:33
  this event. You know, I mean, I guess maybe
• 20:35
  it's the same as like if you're doing catering at such an event
• 20:38
  or something like that, like you just don't think about it.
• 20:40
  But I just because obviously you're so you know, you're
• 20:43
  dressed up, one of the guests, you're involved with it, you're,
• 20:46
  you know, you're going around, you're trying to interact with
• 20:48
  people to get good reactions and stuff like what does that feel
• 20:51
  like? That's a good question.
• 20:54
  I it's I guess it it's it's both not too strange.
• 21:05
  It's not. It's not too dissimilar from
• 21:06
  other jobs at the same time. Like you said that there it is
• 21:10
  different because like so it's it's not too dissimilar because
• 21:15
  you know, you're always the odd one hour at any event you go to.
• 21:18
  You're always the one running around with the camera.
• 21:19
  You're always the one that people are kind of looking at
• 21:21
  and and stopping and trying to get them take shots, you know,
• 21:23
  trying to get you to take shots to them.
• 21:24
  Oh yeah, I. Suppose you're working, don't
• 21:29
  you? Yeah.
• 21:29
  Yeah, like you're always the one that's.
• 21:31
  You're always the one that's like not there to enjoy the
• 21:34
  event. You know you're there to do a
• 21:35
  job. So like on that front it's it's
• 21:40
  it's kind of just like any other piece of work.
• 21:42
  But I think it's more just the added pressure of like, you know
• 21:47
  that, you know you know that you've only got one shot and you
• 21:52
  know that there's oh, actually that's now that's another thing
• 21:56
  is that there's P there's like specific people to get shots off
• 22:00
  as well. Can't just so from like from my
• 22:04
  point of view and I'm sure most people who do this kind of work
• 22:08
  in any job I go to I'm always basically like editing as I go
• 22:12
  along. Not not, not literally, but like
• 22:16
  in my head I'm like I've got like a a list of all the shots
• 22:20
  to get. I.
• 22:20
  Was going to ask, do you have like a piece of paper or do you
• 22:22
  just like run it through your mind?
• 22:24
  It's it's all it's all in my head because I I know what I
• 22:28
  need to to make a a project work.
• 22:31
  So I'll know all the shots that I need to get.
• 22:35
  And I'm not not completely methodically.
• 22:37
  I'm not like you know, I'm not a Rain Man or yeah like you know
• 22:43
  it's it's more like I know all the like I need establishing
• 22:49
  shots. I need, I need, you know
• 22:50
  close-ups for these people. I need some close details of
• 22:52
  hands and like what people are doing.
• 22:54
  I need, you know, the gimbal shots.
• 22:56
  I need some going through. I need XYZ, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:59
  And then along the way there'll be like extra things that pop up
• 23:02
  that will now inevitably kind of make it unique to that thing and
• 23:06
  make it special. But I've always got a a list and
• 23:10
  so whenever I get a shot, I'm kind of editing.
• 23:14
  Like I can see how that will work in my head.
• 23:17
  Like in the edit I can picture it being put together.
• 23:21
  But on on top of that, in a wedding, you've always got to
• 23:25
  get specific people. So I can't just go into the room
• 23:27
  and be like, right, I've I've got to get 4 wide shots, 10
• 23:32
  close-ups of faces and five close-ups of like people's
• 23:37
  hands. It doesn't matter who the hell.
• 23:38
  I just need to get some nice shots in a in a wedding.
• 23:42
  You know, the like the couple have said, oh we yeah, you've
• 23:46
  got to make sure you get my aunt, my uncle, my mum and my
• 23:49
  dad. Oh, and also, you know, their
• 23:50
  cousins that are over there and they've also got 2 little kids
• 23:52
  and you've got to get them because they're really cute.
• 23:54
  And also my grandparents because, you know, they've like
• 23:57
  they've been waiting for me to get married for ages.
• 23:59
  And also, you know, so there's like you've got another, like
• 24:03
  another list and then that's like a top priority because it's
• 24:06
  really important to like the individual person.
• 24:10
  It's not like you're trying to appease some big company.
• 24:13
  It's like, no, this, this specific person has asked me for
• 24:16
  this and this is a film for these two people.
• 24:18
  So I've I've got to get it. Was there any times when you,
• 24:22
  like really fucked up or missed some big stuff or anything's
• 24:26
  crazy that happened at the weddings that just kind of threw
• 24:28
  you off maybe? There's definitely definitely a
• 24:36
  couple. There's I think, I think there's
• 24:38
  one. I think there's one of the
• 24:40
  speeches at one wedding where like because you might people up
• 24:48
  that are like important to get but then you can't go and like
• 24:52
  interfere with their mics halfway through.
• 24:54
  And I think I think we we saw those things.
• 24:56
  We didn't realise until afterwards that one of like
• 24:58
  halfway through. I think it was like maybe the
• 25:00
  brides dad or something. He's like Mike Packer died like
• 25:05
  halfway through the speeches and we just didn't realise until the
• 25:10
  edit because you know, you do, yeah, they do the speeches.
• 25:12
  You're there for how long? Filming from like the other side
• 25:15
  of the room And then you, you know they give you the mics back
• 25:18
  and you put them in your pocket or in your bag and then you go
• 25:20
  and film the next thing because you've caught.
• 25:21
  You're constantly moving. There's there's never like,
• 25:23
  right, let's sit down for 10 minutes.
• 25:25
  So we just didn't, like, I remember we didn't have time to
• 25:28
  just check and go like oh that's not works and if even if we
• 25:31
  didn't have time we couldn't do anything about it.
• 25:33
  We can't say, yeah, can you all do that hour long speech again.
• 25:36
  So yeah like getting back to getting back home or wherever
• 25:40
  and like looking at the footage like a week later I'm going oh
• 25:43
  fuck, we're missing like a whole hour segment of from like one
• 25:49
  person. So I think we had to like.
• 25:50
  Whoa, this guy was talking for an hour.
• 25:53
  Well, like on and off, because it's it's, you know, it's like
• 25:55
  bits and bobs here or there. Like the speech is gone for an
• 25:58
  hour and there's different people talking.
• 26:00
  But it's going to say it's that one goal.
• 26:02
  Was it like a stand up show? Yeah, it's taking the limelight.
• 26:09
  I think we had to use the like on board mic from our cameras
• 26:14
  which is you know, which is what those are for.
• 26:16
  Like you always have a backup. You always have backup audio
• 26:19
  better. Like it just sounds a bit shit
• 26:21
  and I think we just basically just had to apologise and say
• 26:23
  I'm really sorry, there's just nothing we can do about this.
• 26:30
  That's I mean generally I. Think one thing I want to touch
• 26:34
  on with regards to this question is, like, we established before,
• 26:37
  like how intimate the situation is and how often people are
• 26:40
  trying to get your attention, you know, and like, oh hey, film
• 26:44
  this, film this. And like, you know, they're
• 26:45
  probably a lot of the time forget that you're there, right?
• 26:48
  So there there must be instances where people are just doing some
• 26:52
  outrageous shit because they're drunk and you're just like,
• 26:55
  let's film this shit. Oh, definitely.
• 26:57
  Yeah, absolutely. It's it's a real, it's a real
• 27:00
  skill to to be able to kind of like film stuff without people
• 27:05
  noticing you. I mean that's kind of the like
• 27:10
  that's one of the nice, like one of the things about doing events
• 27:13
  is you kind of get this skill of being able to you've you've got
• 27:17
  to kind of be a family on the wall and blend in, you know, to
• 27:21
  the background quite a lot. Because like you said, you get,
• 27:22
  you do need to get shots of people without them realising.
• 27:26
  Because as soon as most people, as soon as they realise the
• 27:28
  camera on them, they kind of, you know, they're doing
• 27:30
  something crazy and they see you and they're like no, and you're
• 27:35
  like fuck no, don't know, like it was good.
• 27:38
  But also like some you've got to, you've got to.
• 27:40
  So you've got to be able to do that, but you've also got to be
• 27:43
  able to kind of get into the mix and kind of and kind of like you
• 27:49
  would I guess in like bar work. You know, if or in like a
• 27:52
  restaurant where you kind of you've got to sometimes even if
• 27:56
  you don't want to. You're not in the mood.
• 27:57
  You know kind of interact with drunk people and like be on
• 28:00
  their level, you know, and and be like, yeah, great.
• 28:03
  Oh, wow, yeah, You know, and try and like egg them on because.
• 28:05
  Yeah, I. Was going to say like you
• 28:06
  because you must be stone caught sober, You have to be pretty
• 28:09
  much. And then yeah, they're all like
• 28:11
  massively. That must be like kind of
• 28:13
  alarming at times. It's it's more it's more just
• 28:19
  tiring honestly. It's you know it's it's not
• 28:22
  really it's not it's never really alarming because I think
• 28:24
  no one's ever really done anything stupid or.
• 28:32
  Yeah no it's it's more just like, you know I've got to I've
• 28:36
  got to be like everyone's getting pissed and having a
• 28:38
  party and it's a lovely event and yet more than anything you
• 28:42
  want to well, a you want to go home but also you're like I want
• 28:45
  to join in this is really fun and be and you're like I've got
• 28:49
  to be here for another three hours, you know.
• 28:53
  So more than anything it's just kind of a bit exhausting because
• 28:55
  everyone's like on another level and you're the only one that's
• 28:58
  not and but you've still got to like maintain local quality and
• 29:03
  get good work. So it's never it's never really.
• 29:06
  Yeah it's always just tiring. It's, I mean I've, I've done
• 29:09
  work in clubs as well like I've I've done club filming and
• 29:12
  that's. What is that like?
• 29:13
  That's scary when you've got equipment because that's.
• 29:18
  How do you film people clubbing? Like, how does that work?
• 29:23
  Please do tell. Filmic it's it's interesting
• 29:28
  because you've just got to be, you've got to be a bit of a Dick
• 29:32
  at times or you you've got to be prepared to be a bit of a Dick,
• 29:35
  I guess. I'm sorry.
• 29:38
  In the people are largely very pissed.
• 29:44
  And you know, I've had people come up to me and try and like
• 29:50
  you in any in any event, you get people coming up to you and be
• 29:52
  like, oh mate, go and film this, Take a bit for this and you kind
• 29:54
  of got to go, yeah, all right. You know, you do that for like
• 29:56
  10 seconds and you go away. But in clubs, you know, again,
• 30:00
  not everyone, but like some people can just be a bit more
• 30:04
  persistent and like, you know, do this and you're like, no,
• 30:06
  that's why I'm doing something else.
• 30:07
  Like you're in the middle of getting a shot and they're like,
• 30:09
  no, no, do like do this. Like, you know, try and get you
• 30:11
  to do something. You've got to turn around and be
• 30:12
  like, no, fuck off. Like, I remember there was a
• 30:16
  guy, I was filming a club and every, I think like every half
• 30:23
  an hour or so these these girls in, like, I was going to say
• 30:31
  bikinis. Not not bikinis, but like,
• 30:34
  almost like almost like, like old line dancing.
• 30:37
  Like 1920s kind of line dancing, oh.
• 30:39
  Wow. OK.
• 30:40
  Interesting. We like top hats and stuff,
• 30:42
  these girls, like we've come out in these sparkly whatever these
• 30:46
  things are called what we call them with like, trays of
• 30:50
  tequila. Shots.
• 30:51
  And the club would play the tequila song, you know, and
• 30:55
  these girls would like walk around the club in like a line
• 30:59
  and like people would just take these shots.
• 31:02
  And because it was always like absolutely Rams and we had to
• 31:07
  get like different angles. They had this bar that was just
• 31:11
  like a rectangle. It was like an old, but you
• 31:14
  could people could access it from all sides.
• 31:16
  So there's always like 7-8 different bartenders at any one
• 31:19
  time, like certain people drinks.
• 31:21
  It was always, it was all a bit mad and so the only way to get
• 31:24
  these like some of the shots was like to climb on top of the bar
• 31:28
  and we got permission from like the club you know, and the and
• 31:31
  the bartenders knew we were like going to do that.
• 31:34
  So I would just make sure I had had clears.
• 31:36
  I had like a clear spot and I wasn't getting anyone's way.
• 31:39
  And I I just like hop up onto the bar and stand above everyone
• 31:42
  like get some cool shots. And I remember this one time I,
• 31:46
  like, I knew it was about to happen because I could.
• 31:50
  The music started playing and I was like, right, OK about to get
• 31:54
  up onto the bar. And this guy was like, next to
• 31:56
  me was like, oh, mate, can you can you, like do something or
• 31:58
  film something or whatever? And I.
• 32:00
  And it's also really loud. So you're having to shower
• 32:03
  everything and people go and hit, you know, like in a, you
• 32:04
  know, when you're like asking a bartender for a drink and
• 32:07
  they're like, what do you want? You have to go right into their
• 32:09
  rear and like, you know, I want blah, blah, blah.
• 32:11
  Like it's it's it's just instantly more intense because
• 32:15
  of that. And this guy, like, grabbed me
• 32:17
  and was like, like, can you film this?
• 32:21
  You know? And I was like, no, no, sorry.
• 32:23
  And he and he asked me again and I was, I just went no and like
• 32:26
  started climbing up onto onto the bar and I had like one leg
• 32:29
  on and I was like holding a camera in the other hand.
• 32:31
  And he like grabbed me and like tried to like pull me back.
• 32:35
  And so I just had to just like like hit him with the like not
• 32:38
  hard but just like kind of like not thump him.
• 32:41
  But you know, I just like pushed the camera into him and just
• 32:44
  like fuck off and like went up onto the bar and then carried
• 32:48
  on. You just get people like that,
• 32:50
  you know, and you and in that moment you kind of can't.
• 32:53
  I'm not saying it's. I'm not saying you have to hit
• 32:56
  people and you have to yell abuse them.
• 32:59
  No, I understand you've. Got to read the situation and
• 33:02
  kind of just like do you know there's a certain way you can
• 33:05
  deal with it and. I think the fundamental there is
• 33:09
  this that like what gives you the right to like just randomly
• 33:13
  start touching someone and grabbing someone, Do you know
• 33:15
  what I mean? Like in any given context, like
• 33:17
  it's just not OK. I mean, I understand, you know,
• 33:21
  people are having a good time. They want to get you to film it
• 33:23
  and stuff and you know, that's partly your job.
• 33:26
  But then you also have to use your, your brain as well.
• 33:29
  Like you're quietly clearly there for commercial purposes if
• 33:34
  it was like a part. But do you remember when you
• 33:37
  were at uni? Right.
• 33:38
  And there would be people that would walk around and take
• 33:41
  photos, like in the, do you know what I'm talking about?
• 33:44
  Like you're getting, like messed up and like, yeah, like, that's
• 33:48
  a bit different. That's exactly what that's for.
• 33:50
  But I would have imagined you would have been dressed up quite
• 33:53
  nicely and you're doing your thing and I guess quite clear
• 33:57
  that you're there to do like a commercial job.
• 33:58
  And it's not like, oh, I'm here for your entertainment kind of
• 34:02
  thing. Yeah.
• 34:03
  But even still like. That I think people it's it's so
• 34:06
  it's such a grey area because when when people are drunk,
• 34:08
  they, you know, they don't they see a camera and they kind of
• 34:12
  just think like, oh cool, I want, I want a photo of myself,
• 34:15
  even even if it doesn't make any sense, because I love it when
• 34:17
  people are like, oh, I'll take a photo and then you click and
• 34:21
  they're like, yeah, cheers. And then they walk away and
• 34:23
  you're like, do you want to like how are you going to see that?
• 34:26
  Like you don't you don't have my details.
• 34:28
  I don't have yours. They just want the photo taken
• 34:32
  and sometimes, sometimes I'm like oh can I have a photo and
• 34:35
  I'll go and I'm doing video and they got a photo and they so
• 34:38
  even though I'm recording that I just hold the camera for a few
• 34:41
  seconds to. Pretend.
• 34:44
  Oh, yeah. Got it.
• 34:47
  Walk away. Yeah.
• 34:52
  Difficult. It's very it's intense.
• 34:54
  It's tough. It's it's again, it's long, it's
• 34:56
  loud. It's it's You're the only one
• 34:58
  that's sober. Was it always events like that
• 35:01
  where you had to kind of give an idea of a flavour like this is
• 35:05
  what this experience would be? Or was there anything else?
• 35:08
  With with that kind of work, no, it's always just like, you know,
• 35:12
  we want to show off the clubs, like we want to show off you
• 35:15
  know what a nice out, you know at our places, like you know,
• 35:19
  it's just it's just about selling their services and their
• 35:22
  venue. But it's it's weird work.
• 35:26
  Any any outrageous behaviour that you came across, It's a
• 35:29
  club. If if there wasn't going to be
• 35:31
  at the wedding, there must be some outrageous stuff at club.
• 35:34
  Yeah, and the guy trying to pull me off the bar was definitely a
• 35:36
  stand out highlight. Yeah, there was one.
• 35:42
  There's just one really weird club and I I think I can mention
• 35:47
  them by name because they they got shut down a few years ago.
• 35:52
  But I mean, regardless, basically it was this club, it
• 35:56
  was this place called Toy Box and there the whole thing was
• 36:01
  basically, yeah, it's weird. The club's whole thing was
• 36:06
  basically like, like it sounds so weird to say out loud.
• 36:12
  What? Like, before you say anything, I
• 36:13
  feel like this can go either one or two ways.
• 36:15
  Either one, it's a place that has lots of, like, actual toys,
• 36:20
  like, you know, like play pens and shifts for adults, or it's
• 36:24
  somewhere that has a lot of mature adult stuff.
• 36:30
  So you're you're sort of you're you're more you were more right
• 36:33
  with the first guess. It's really weird to say out
• 36:36
  loud. The idea basically was like,
• 36:39
  kids like toys, like teddy bears and stuff, but like sexy, like,
• 36:48
  which just yeah, which is just weird.
• 36:51
  It's just like, I remember hearing about it.
• 36:54
  We got the job through someone else and I remember just
• 36:59
  instantly been like, oh, that makes me uncomfortable.
• 37:02
  I don't like this. So the and the main thing that I
• 37:07
  remember from it is that they'd have this guy dressed in like a
• 37:10
  teddy bear outfit. He was.
• 37:14
  I think he was, he was. I remember chatting to him and.
• 37:18
  And the other way, a cigarette. Yeah, he was.
• 37:21
  He was. He was a really interesting guy.
• 37:25
  He was. I think he's he said that he was
• 37:29
  like legally classed as a dwarf, even though he didn't
• 37:31
  technically have dwarfism because he was like it's like
• 37:35
  the legal definite he he was like having a laugh about it and
• 37:39
  saying he basically, he'd works on Star Wars.
• 37:42
  He'd worked on. No.
• 37:45
  Was it Jurassic? Oh no.
• 37:46
  Something he'd worked with, with Spielberg, he'd worked with a
• 37:49
  bunch of people like he'd been in Ewok.
• 37:52
  Basically he'd been like any, any time that a movie needed you
• 37:57
  know people kind of of that side.
• 37:58
  I think it was like like 4 foot and under or like like 5 foot
• 38:02
  and under or something like that.
• 38:05
  He he was like in his sort of mid 40s, he'd been in this for
• 38:08
  quite a while And so he said that that's the kind of work
• 38:13
  that he did in like that's like like peak season that's that.
• 38:21
  But then off offseason, he would just pick up other bits of work
• 38:25
  here and there that needed small people.
• 38:27
  And one of those pieces of work was this.
• 38:31
  So he was, you know, I'm not, I'm not a tall guy.
• 38:34
  I'm 5 foot four. He was kind of maybe.
• 38:36
  I can. I can picture it.
• 38:37
  Yeah, he's probably but. But that's almost kind of
• 38:40
  weirder to be honest, because when you said big like teddy
• 38:43
  bear, I was imagining a guy like an 8 foot teddy costume, but
• 38:47
  you're talking about an actual sized teddy.
• 38:49
  That's really weird. Yeah.
• 38:51
  I'm imagining like Ted, like Seth MacFarlane, Ted walking,
• 38:54
  running around in the club, like.
• 38:58
  It was kind of, it wasn't quite that small, but he was, he was
• 39:01
  probably shoulder maybe maybe a bit like Harvick my arm.
• 39:04
  And he, he had this big, you know, the suits where you like,
• 39:08
  they've got like an electronic pump and they kind of inflate,
• 39:11
  you kind of plug yourself in and they kind of go and they like
• 39:14
  make them like a bit like fatter.
• 39:16
  It was like one of those. So he's in this big teddy bear
• 39:20
  outfit and he had to kind of like plug this pump in and like
• 39:24
  inflate it for like 5 minutes. So he was like round, like a
• 39:30
  kind of classic teddy bear. Now this massive head that he'd
• 39:32
  like put on and then he'd he'd kind of we'd have to because he,
• 39:36
  he was like like any kind of big costume that you hear about from
• 39:40
  like a movie. He only had like very, very
• 39:43
  partial vision in it. So he could be like he already
• 39:46
  couldn't see very well. And he was in a club, which is
• 39:48
  they've got flashing lights and it's dark.
• 39:50
  So we would have to like guide him out with the screen room.
• 39:53
  And he basically had a circuit. He had like a set path to go
• 39:56
  around the club. And basically his job was to
• 39:59
  just go and like go out as his tell you about and Just Dance.
• 40:01
  And of course, drunk people turn around and see a life-size well,
• 40:06
  you know. 4 foot teddy bear dance and they're like what the
• 40:10
  fuck there. And so people would like come
• 40:12
  and like dance with him and like have pictures and like that was
• 40:17
  the kind of one of the the main things is like, yeah, he would
• 40:21
  just go and dance with people and we'd basically have to go
• 40:24
  out and like follow him round and he'd do it a few times a
• 40:27
  night. So the first few times I
• 40:28
  remember we'd like, we'd stay with him the whole time and then
• 40:35
  like after we got enough shots, we'd like just dip in and out
• 40:37
  and get stuff here and there. Anyway, I remember one time he
• 40:40
  was dancing around and I was like following.
• 40:44
  I kind of, like, found it at one point.
• 40:45
  I was like, oh, well, he's like, he's done like half of his
• 40:48
  circuit. So I'll, I'll stick with him and
• 40:51
  get some shots. Then I'll go into the green room
• 40:52
  with him and like take five and he suddenly like started getting
• 40:58
  jostled about And these these people just started like
• 41:01
  grabbing him and like trying to like pull him in for I don't
• 41:05
  know like for a photo or what. But he had to like he was kind
• 41:08
  of still trying to dance but also trying to like shove them
• 41:10
  off and they were like grabbing him and trying.
• 41:13
  I think someone will try like grab their their heads off like
• 41:16
  to get take their teddy bear head.
• 41:18
  And he had and I kind of had to like stop filming and put my
• 41:21
  hand out and try and like get them off him and he had to.
• 41:24
  We basically just sort of like semi four our way through the
• 41:27
  crowd and back to the green room and like got back in and he
• 41:30
  slammed the door and he took his head off.
• 41:31
  He's like fucking hell man. That was mental.
• 41:34
  And then I had to help him out of his of his suit and he was so
• 41:39
  sweaty and it was awful. Oh.
• 41:41
  Poor guy, man, I can only imagine how.
• 41:43
  That that was that was a bit unpleasant.
• 41:45
  That was just like sounds like that would be like.
• 41:48
  This is weird, like what am I doing?
• 41:50
  Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's full of that, isn't it?
• 41:54
  Like sometimes I'll be applying for certain jobs or doing
• 41:57
  certain jobs and I'm like, what even is this and what is this
• 42:00
  thing I'm doing right now? This is bizarre, but that's kind
• 42:02
  of like what our industry is sometimes.
• 42:05
  A lot of the time you just got off.
• 42:06
  You just got to accept the weird jobs.
• 42:07
  You're like, well, it's something.
• 42:10
  What's the weirdest job you've ever done?
• 42:13
  What film job or just? Oh, interesting.
• 42:17
  Let's let's keep it with filming for the 2nd and then we'll come
• 42:19
  back to that. I mean, honestly, that's pretty
• 42:23
  up there. And the toy box it was, it was
• 42:25
  very weird. Like the teddy bear, the whole
• 42:27
  kind of weird sexual adult take on like like children's toys was
• 42:35
  just. Yeah, I I think that's bizarre.
• 42:38
  The only thing I thought was a semi good idea but actually in
• 42:42
  practicality was a terrible idea was remember like when I said
• 42:45
  before like oh like an adult playpen type thing.
• 42:47
  I think they thought, man, I remember years ago thinking oh
• 42:50
  that's genius, like a like a a ball pier.
• 42:53
  And yeah, like all the things used to run through like
• 42:55
  Sharkies when we were kids, like, oh, that's great.
• 42:57
  But then obviously drunk people in a dark nightclub doing that.
• 43:02
  That's a health and safety risk. People going to throw up people.
• 43:05
  No horrible idea. Terrible idea.
• 43:09
  Yeah, on paper it's a nice idea. But in a club, I think
• 43:12
  immediately, as soon as you involve alcohol and it just, it
• 43:15
  just goes wrong. Yeah, I think, honestly, I think
• 43:18
  the weirdest one is probably that it's just it.
• 43:21
  I remember just feeling really uncomfortable the whole time.
• 43:23
  Most like this is just a weird place.
• 43:28
  They do it the one time, yeah. I did it a few times and I mean
• 43:34
  any any club work was like any any club work was just at the
• 43:39
  time it was stressful and weird and exhausting.
• 43:45
  Now it's just like funny stories to tell.
• 43:48
  But I I wouldn't do it again. But other than that, I think
• 43:52
  I've been quite lucky in the like the bad jobs that I've had
• 43:59
  have only been bad because either they're a bit dull or the
• 44:03
  client's been like, not the best.
• 44:08
  How do you, how do you navigate that if if you're?
• 44:11
  Because I know what you mean. Like from doing freelancing over
• 44:14
  the years in various fields, like how do you, how do you
• 44:18
  remain professional and deal with difficult clients?
• 44:21
  Or if they're. Because I imagine they change
• 44:23
  things all the time. They ask for things that
• 44:25
  probably out of budget or things that are just unrealistic, or
• 44:29
  they just have that, you know, they have an idea of like how it
• 44:32
  should be and you're like, well, actually that's not how it
• 44:35
  works. How do you deal with that?
• 44:41
  I think one of the the strongest and one of the strongest skills
• 44:46
  you can have in this kind of work and this business is just
• 44:50
  being a nice person which and it sounds, it sounds so obvious but
• 44:57
  you get you do run into a lot of Dick heads, either clients or
• 45:02
  more usually other, other videographers, other film
• 45:05
  makers. Oh, you mean Clash clashing with
• 45:09
  other people? Yeah.
• 45:11
  Not so much like on a on a job, but like just kind of in the in
• 45:15
  the general in this world in this kind of sphere you do just
• 45:18
  run, I mean you run into Dick heads in any industry I think.
• 45:23
  I think this this kind of work is I think there's a few more of
• 45:29
  them because it's more subjective.
• 45:33
  So you know people are people are like me they're running
• 45:36
  their own business they're they're making their own work
• 45:38
  And so you do just get get some arrogant people who are just
• 45:40
  like Oh well I'm the best and or you know or well I'm right about
• 45:43
  this. I've been doing this for longer.
• 45:45
  I've been, you know, I went to whatever school I I've got this
• 45:49
  equipment I know the best and it it is rare that you come across
• 45:55
  them, but when you when you do, they tend to be just like the
• 46:00
  worst. It just sucks the fun out of it
• 46:02
  doesn't. It yeah, it does.
• 46:04
  It does. But I mean, you know, I think
• 46:07
  again, like the best tool you've got is just to be really nice
• 46:10
  and just to be not a pushover, but like.
• 46:16
  Choose your battles. Yeah, just choose your battles.
• 46:19
  Just, you know, be a nice person.
• 46:21
  Be understanding, you know you know what, you've got that on
• 46:26
  your side. And and, yeah, when it comes to
• 46:28
  difficult clients, just, you know, it's it's such a fine line
• 46:34
  of, you know, someone can be being a Dick completely
• 46:40
  unintentionally. Like, I just don't know.
• 46:42
  And in that case, the best thing is just to kind of just explain
• 46:47
  it to them and, you know, just like explain why you can't do
• 46:52
  the thing that they're asking and just be very logical about
• 46:55
  it. And nine times out of 10 people
• 46:57
  will just be like, oh, OK, oh, sorry, we didn't realise.
• 47:00
  And then occasionally you do get the people who are like are
• 47:02
  fully aware that they're being unreasonable, they're trying to
• 47:04
  like get a better price or they're trying to.
• 47:07
  Yeah. Usually it's, you know, when
• 47:09
  that happens, it's so rare. But when it happens, it's like
• 47:11
  they're trying to get more bang for their buck.
• 47:12
  And so in that case, again, you've still got to, you can't
• 47:15
  kind of as soon as you as soon as you go down to their level
• 47:18
  and you know and try and be a Dick back, that's when they sort
• 47:23
  of that's when they can get you. So you've just got to be, even
• 47:26
  if they're being really unreasonable, which I've had a,
• 47:28
  I've had a few cases of someone just being completely not OK and
• 47:33
  what they're asking for, how they're talking to me, you've
• 47:35
  just got to be, you know, you've just got to be really nice and
• 47:41
  just be like not, not, not a pushover in, you know, not like
• 47:45
  in a customer service role when the manager's like, oh, the
• 47:48
  customer's always right, you can't talk back.
• 47:50
  And even if someone's having to go, you've got to.
• 47:52
  Be like yes. OK.
• 47:53
  That's fine. Have a nice day, you know.
• 47:55
  But I think it's like it's about just being firm and clear but
• 48:00
  still being polite about it, you know, just going, OK, I
• 48:04
  understand that you're upset. No, I can't do what you're
• 48:07
  asking for. And here's why.
• 48:09
  And I'm sorry that you're upset, but I'm not going to, I'm not
• 48:12
  going to budget on it. And if you don't like that, you
• 48:15
  know you can go somewhere else and that's fine.
• 48:19
  But it's it's it's tough though it it, you know, really you want
• 48:23
  to just go piss off, but you can't.
• 48:26
  You've had an interesting year, because I remember we met
• 48:29
  officially on on the set of Oh no Guano, Dan Mcgee's film, and
• 48:38
  it's. About a year ago now wasn't.
• 48:40
  It it was April time, I think 23.
• 48:43
  Yes, I've only known you for a year.
• 48:45
  Which way? Because it feels like longer.
• 48:47
  That's how, you know it's good friendships.
• 48:48
  Yeah. No, I mean, I think I was
• 48:52
  struck. I mean I I'd already, this was
• 48:56
  my first time working with Dan as well and it was a pleasure to
• 49:01
  work with you both. It was really easy.
• 49:03
  It was a lot of fun. You know, I sort of I've, I've
• 49:07
  detailed a little bit, but like I'll just reiterate here, like a
• 49:10
  lot of the time obviously we were just running around with
• 49:12
  the camera seeing what we could figure out to do and stuff and I
• 49:16
  just love that. That's kind of like what film
• 49:18
  makers all about really isn't it?
• 49:19
  It's like what can we do? Like what's the best way we can
• 49:22
  do this and what if we try this, what if we try this etcetera.
• 49:26
  But one thing I remember was like we were chatting for like 5
• 49:29
  minutes and kind of you know, I was gazing your head about what
• 49:32
  you're doing to make ends meet. Because obviously at that point
• 49:37
  I had not, like I've been self-employed for a number of
• 49:41
  years, but like I was still relying on like you know, bar
• 49:45
  job here, bar job there. Now I'm just fully, fully like
• 49:50
  agency work, fully acting fully online, like really in at the
• 49:54
  deep end and it's shit scary, but it's also kind of weirdly
• 49:59
  entertaining as well. But the vibe I got from talking
• 50:04
  to you and getting advice from you and everything was that at
• 50:07
  that point you're kind of fed up with doing this sort of like
• 50:12
  cinematography specifically for like commercial purposes that
• 50:16
  you at that point you obviously would have done it for like
• 50:18
  about six years. And it's like it's a lot.
• 50:21
  And I I know, well firstly, people might look at that and be
• 50:27
  like, well, hey, you still get to do what you love.
• 50:28
  And it's like, well, it's different when you're not
• 50:31
  getting to do it quite exactly what you love.
• 50:33
  Like for example, when I do, like, say, voice overs for
• 50:37
  commercial things or if I do acting like commercial stuff,
• 50:42
  right? Not the same as doing a short
• 50:45
  film or doing, I don't know, something a bit more creative,
• 50:49
  not in any way the same thing. Because you have no control over
• 50:52
  it. You have to just come in, do the
• 50:54
  thing, leave. It's very regimented and there's
• 50:58
  no freedom for creativity. And it's just like, so I
• 51:01
  immediately knew what you meant. Like, we didn't delve into it
• 51:05
  like a lot. But like from the few things you
• 51:07
  told me and how we spoke about it, I kind of got the the vibe
• 51:11
  that like, yeah, this is, this is not what this guy wants to be
• 51:14
  doing. I remember getting that from you
• 51:17
  as well. Like, I remember you.
• 51:21
  And like as in like you kind of you got it, you understood, You
• 51:25
  know, I remember talking to you about it and you know, hoping
• 51:28
  that I didn't just start ranting.
• 51:31
  No, I did. I I felt it, man.
• 51:34
  I it was one of those moments like let out I.
• 51:38
  Think I think I think probably the more the more I got to know
• 51:41
  you the more I've sort of because initially I was like I
• 51:42
  don't want to just start like. I get it.
• 51:44
  All my problems, I think. But like, especially on that
• 51:46
  second, you know, day when we're like in the field and but we're
• 51:50
  pissing about a bit more. I think I got, you know, I knew
• 51:52
  enough to be like, OK, I can kind of just like, I can just
• 51:55
  have a bit around this. Like this guy knows what I'm all
• 51:57
  about. Like, I I think that's the thing
• 51:59
  I got when I first met you I was like, oh, he knows.
• 52:02
  Like, he gets it because. Because you're totally right.
• 52:05
  It is A lot of people who work like a normal job will, you
• 52:13
  know, probably look at it and go like, what's he complaining
• 52:15
  about? Because I mean, I'm fully aware
• 52:19
  that I'm very lucky to be able to do what I do.
• 52:22
  Like I I've spent the last you know 5 1/2 years running my own
• 52:26
  business and and making films and video work full time.
• 52:33
  I got really itchy nose and and that I'm like I'm very fortunate
• 52:41
  to be able to do that because a lot of people wouldn't and it's
• 52:45
  I mean it's not completely luck it's it's a it's a lot of hard
• 52:48
  work it's like a fuck ton of work and and stress and and like
• 52:55
  time but I'm still very lucky to be able to do it.
• 53:00
  Like I could have been working you know I could have been doing
• 53:04
  any job. I could have been working my ass
• 53:06
  off in a supermarket for the last five years or I could have
• 53:09
  been I used to work at Ofsted in an office I could have still
• 53:12
  been doing that you know I like I'm very lucky to be doing what
• 53:16
  I do but also because just because of that I'm not just
• 53:21
  kind of go well, you know I'm lucky to be doing this any like
• 53:25
  you know at all. So I'm just going to, like, I'm
• 53:27
  just going to stick with it, even if I'm unhappy.
• 53:30
  Like I'm, I'm a big believer. I've always been a big believer
• 53:34
  in not just doing something. If you're unhappy, then there's
• 53:40
  no point doing it. And I understand, obviously
• 53:43
  money comes into it in such a big way and there's so many
• 53:47
  people who are doing shit jobs that they hate, but they need
• 53:50
  the money and they can't do anything about it.
• 53:51
  But, you know, I think if you can do something about it,
• 53:57
  there's no point sticking at a job that you just hate because
• 54:00
  there's just not. It's just, there's just no point
• 54:02
  being miserable for however long.
• 54:07
  So, so yeah, I think I think I've I've like, when we met, you
• 54:13
  know, I was kind of in that pro in that place of going, like,
• 54:16
  I'm happy to be doing what I do. I'm lucky.
• 54:18
  But also it's not exactly what I want to do.
• 54:21
  So I'm trying to change it. Why don't we talk about that?
• 54:27
  What's the dream, Giuseppe? What are you trying to do?
• 54:31
  I mean that the ultimate dream is, is to be is to be directing
• 54:38
  and shooting features. Well that's that's always been
• 54:42
  since I was like I don't know 1213 that's been my my big goal
• 54:49
  if you know I think the way I've I've been looking at it for the
• 54:53
  last few years is if I could be in a place like OK like
• 55:00
  basically in the place that like Edgar Wright was in well and
• 55:04
  probably still is but like you know the Coronet are trilogy
• 55:07
  like that kind of era if I could be paid not even you know I
• 55:16
  don't I don't care about being famous.
• 55:18
  I don't care about being a millionaire.
• 55:20
  Like, if I go to be paid an amount that I could live
• 55:24
  comfortably and have a nice life to do that, to like make a make
• 55:31
  a great film, make a fun film like that, that's that's that's
• 55:36
  the dream, you know, I'd love to.
• 55:38
  I'd love to. Maybe.
• 55:39
  Maybe. I mean, yeah, I'd love to like
• 55:42
  write it because I really enjoy writing.
• 55:44
  Write, shoot, direct. Maybe That's a lot.
• 55:47
  I don't know if I'm a bit of a control freak in that.
• 55:50
  No, it's normal. There's plenty of people that do
• 55:52
  that. Yeah.
• 55:54
  Yeah, Duke, Ricky Gervais does that as well.
• 55:57
  Yeah. He fucking stars in it as well.
• 55:59
  That's. What I used to do, I I thought
• 56:04
  I'd get these because I just thought, it's funny, I don't
• 56:06
  know because I don't know if you've shown me these and shit.
• 56:08
  That's what I used to do when I was 13 when I like, started
• 56:11
  making films. I would like right shoot direct
• 56:15
  star and I'd edit and so I I I do like so this.
• 56:22
  So I'll finish what I'm saying. So I mean basically yeah that's
• 56:25
  that's the that's the dream is to be doing that.
• 56:27
  It's just making fun films and you know making enough money
• 56:32
  from it to live off and that's and that's why I like it's kind
• 56:35
  of why I started doing like I so I got this I used to I used to
• 56:40
  make films. My friends like, put them all on
• 56:41
  DVD. Oh cool.
• 56:43
  So so this is this is the I think I made this in 2011.
• 56:49
  Oh man, look at that James blonde cold finger.
• 56:54
  I love that. That's when I used to star in
• 56:57
  them as well. So amazing.
• 56:59
  I've, I've got, I've got tons of these.
• 57:01
  I've got like a whole. I mean, wow, the other room.
• 57:05
  This is just like. Oh my God, we have to get drunk
• 57:07
  sometime and watch them all. Please.
• 57:10
  That would be amazing. Honestly, yeah, I'd be fine.
• 57:12
  I'd be. That'd be quite fun.
• 57:13
  Fuck. Yeah, we're doing that.
• 57:14
  We're doing that. But like, I think that's kind of
• 57:18
  what I would want to be doing is like, you know, like James
• 57:22
  Blonde, there's three, James Blonde there's, there's.
• 57:24
  A trilogy. That's a trilogy.
• 57:26
  There's a that that one's about, like Wizards and time travel.
• 57:29
  That one's like an apocalyptic one.
• 57:32
  Like that's the dream is to be like making this stuff.
• 57:37
  Obviously a lot more professionally, but like just
• 57:39
  making things that are fun and interesting with people that I
• 57:46
  enjoy making them with, you know, and making enough money to
• 57:49
  live. That's that's all I want to be
• 57:51
  doing really. I have the same exact dream man,
• 57:54
  especially the more and more I get into the industry as well
• 57:56
  and I see like even people at the top not being happy.
• 58:00
  I sort of, it kind of reshifted my focus again and I was like,
• 58:03
  Nah, the the, the, the goal is to just do this for a living.
• 58:07
  Yeah, to not have to rely, like for instance, when I'm done with
• 58:10
  today's show and working kiosks at a venue and that's fun.
• 58:14
  It's, it's, it's it is what it is, but it's not.
• 58:17
  I don't love that. I love running around in the
• 58:19
  field with you with the camera and going like that's my idea of
• 58:23
  fun, because look at how that turned out as well.
• 58:26
  Like, it came together in such a great way.
• 58:30
  And I really understand when people used to say things like,
• 58:37
  oh, your talent is wasted on this.
• 58:39
  You're you're wasted on this. I always used to think when I
• 58:42
  was younger that that was the dramatic thing to say, but now I
• 58:44
  completely agree. I think I think that you can see
• 58:47
  it in people. I said the same thing to Dan.
• 58:51
  You know, I I understand how like frustrating it can get, but
• 58:55
  you just have to keep going because I really feel that we're
• 58:57
  on the precipice of something. Because a lot of people don't
• 59:00
  get to this point where they've perfected it for this many years
• 59:03
  and they're now starting to realise like that's the thing,
• 59:06
  like in these coming years, my my words, you guys are going to
• 59:09
  make some of the best work you've ever made.
• 59:11
  I. Hope so.
• 59:13
  But you have to keep going, man. That's the key.
• 59:16
  Oh yeah, that's definitely, that's definitely, I think, I
• 59:20
  think it's it's a real testament to how much someone wants to do
• 59:24
  this and wants to keep going, whether it's, you know, filming,
• 59:28
  directing, acting, whether it's editing or or sound work or
• 59:33
  producing whatever. Like I think there's, you know,
• 59:37
  people like if you as like you've got to rewant it and the
• 59:41
  people that kind of just keep going and don't give up, even
• 59:44
  when it's really, really shit, other people eventually make it.
• 59:48
  Like you hear all, you hear all the success stories from people.
• 59:51
  They're like, they're thrown around a lot and, you know,
• 59:53
  everyone's heard them. But like people like Samuel
• 59:55
  Jackson, people like, you know, I don't know who else, Ian
• 1:00:01
  McKellen. I guess a bit.
• 1:00:04
  There's there's so many famous actors who didn't actually start
• 1:00:08
  getting, like good work and didn't really start making it
• 1:00:14
  until they're like well into their like 40s fifties like
• 1:00:17
  Dennis. Dennis, what's he called?
• 1:00:18
  Dennis Dennis. Villain Villainov.
• 1:00:21
  Think who's he's doing June. And they Blade Runner 2049,
• 1:00:26
  like, I think he was like 45 when he made the film that kind
• 1:00:32
  of got him in on Hollywood's radar and got him.
• 1:00:37
  I can't remember. Was it prisoners?
• 1:00:40
  I can't remember. But like, like he.
• 1:00:42
  Yeah, like he was, you know, he's married.
• 1:00:44
  He had a kid. He'd had like a whole life and
• 1:00:46
  like had settled down and kind of, you know, and that was him.
• 1:00:51
  Like he'd had his. He kind of was in the middle of
• 1:00:53
  his life before he, you know, before anyone even knew about
• 1:00:58
  him. And I think it's so easy in this
• 1:01:00
  industry to kind of especially with social media where you're
• 1:01:05
  constantly comparing yourself to people, you see people that are
• 1:01:10
  more successful or have more. All the time.
• 1:01:13
  That's literally by daily. You're seeing that.
• 1:01:17
  And it's so it's so hard to not compare yourself and to not feel
• 1:01:21
  shit because you're like, Oh well, that person's doing what I
• 1:01:25
  want to do Well. That person's like, you know,
• 1:01:27
  living in Barbados and having living the dream.
• 1:01:30
  Like it's so easy to do that and look at other people and go Oh
• 1:01:34
  well I'm. I'm whatever, I'm 26.
• 1:01:36
  I'm 30 I'm 35. I'm I've missed my chance.
• 1:01:39
  Like, like we're we are still we are still young Like obviously
• 1:01:43
  it would be nice to be successful and have made it five
• 1:01:46
  years ago that would have been great.
• 1:01:47
  But you know but we're not like we're not there's there's still
• 1:01:52
  plenty of time I think. I think people kind of forget
• 1:01:55
  that, you know, things do take time.
• 1:01:59
  I think you're spot on with this.
• 1:02:01
  I think about this more and more every day.
• 1:02:03
  If I'd have become famous or successful when I was younger, I
• 1:02:08
  would not have been able to receive that well.
• 1:02:10
  I was a mess and that's just me. But I honestly think that it's
• 1:02:14
  better than it comes. If it is going to come at a time
• 1:02:17
  when you're ready to receive it, when you're more mature, when
• 1:02:21
  you've kind of you know like like I think it's it's pretty
• 1:02:26
  well established that like we're we're not in this to get 6 like
• 1:02:30
  famous or whatever or have loads of money.
• 1:02:32
  Like that's never been the end goal.
• 1:02:35
  But it's it's tricky sometimes trying to trying to convince
• 1:02:41
  people with that and trying to make people understand that no,
• 1:02:43
  I just want to do this for a living.
• 1:02:45
  And also interestingly as well I don't think people can fathom
• 1:02:49
  the idea that you can do this for a living and not be famous
• 1:02:53
  and and rich. There's plenty of people I know
• 1:02:57
  that do this. Other people I've had on the
• 1:02:59
  show as well that have had a whole career out of this never
• 1:03:03
  have to work a day and anything they don't want to do.
• 1:03:05
  And it's kind of like stuns people.
• 1:03:08
  But if you think about it, it's not really that crazy.
• 1:03:10
  Think about how many movies, TV shows, series, shorts, every
• 1:03:14
  year get made by just people. Like, that's the thing you don't
• 1:03:18
  need. Like the only reason that people
• 1:03:19
  pay attention to the big stuff is obviously that's got the most
• 1:03:22
  marketing and money behind it, but it's no different to like
• 1:03:25
  music. Like most of the music I
• 1:03:26
  listened to, you'd never heard of it.
• 1:03:28
  And that's not, that's not a flex.
• 1:03:29
  That's not me going like, oh, it's so underground.
• 1:03:31
  It's so cool. I know I get what you're saying
• 1:03:32
  do. You know what I mean?
• 1:03:33
  I just prefer it to like whatever they're putting out in
• 1:03:36
  in the charts. And to be honest, films are a
• 1:03:38
  lot like that. Like you can find some really
• 1:03:40
  incredible shit just by random film makers.
• 1:03:44
  Like, remember that film that we saw together at that Film
• 1:03:47
  Festival? What?
• 1:03:48
  All of them. They're all good.
• 1:03:49
  But there was that one particular one that had a little
• 1:03:51
  bit more budget. They said it was a short film.
• 1:03:54
  It's like 40 minutes long. That's pushing it.
• 1:03:56
  But it was a really good premise.
• 1:03:58
  And yeah, there was like, you know, little things there, like
• 1:04:01
  some questionable acting here and there and some other things.
• 1:04:04
  But do you know what? The premise was really good.
• 1:04:06
  It was gripping. And most importantly, it was
• 1:04:08
  entertaining. Yeah.
• 1:04:10
  And I look at as a thing, I look at stuff like that and I'm like,
• 1:04:13
  wait, well, any of us can do this then?
• 1:04:15
  Yeah, lately, definitely. Yeah.
• 1:04:18
  It's it's a good point. Not everyone who like the
• 1:04:20
  majority of people. The majority of people who do
• 1:04:23
  this aren't famous. Like you only hear about the
• 1:04:26
  small few that are because you know they're the ones that
• 1:04:29
  people pay their own attention to.
• 1:04:30
  But yeah, it's not you don't have to be famous to be
• 1:04:33
  successful. There's plenty of people who
• 1:04:35
  aren't. There's plenty of people who are
• 1:04:36
  very comfortably living. And you know they're probably
• 1:04:39
  like well known in some circles but like you know, not household
• 1:04:44
  name. I was little sill side tangent.
• 1:04:50
  I was in I was in India for my partner's brother's wedding in
• 1:04:58
  November and that was it was great.
• 1:05:03
  It was amazing. It was a brilliant experience.
• 1:05:05
  But the reason I'm mentioning it is because we got stopped so
• 1:05:11
  often because we were white, because people want to take our
• 1:05:18
  photos and like, take photos of it and like, have selfies.
• 1:05:22
  And it was a really little interesting taste of obviously,
• 1:05:30
  I don't know. But like, what I imagine being
• 1:05:34
  famous to some extent is like, if that you'd just be walking
• 1:05:38
  down the street, you'd just be in the middle of the
• 1:05:40
  conversation, you'd be going about your everyday and like,
• 1:05:43
  suddenly someone would just like appear and be like selfie.
• 1:05:45
  Can I have a selfie? Like, sure, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  And like and like, you know, it was a couple times where we were
• 1:05:51
  like a bit stressed and we were like on our way to somewhere and
• 1:05:53
  someone's like, photo, photo like like trying to put their
• 1:05:55
  own rounds. So like, oh, cry.
• 1:05:57
  Yeah, OK, great. And it was pretty weird.
• 1:06:00
  It was, it was, it was funny. It was lovely.
• 1:06:04
  But it was, it was really funny. I was saying to to Emma
• 1:06:07
  afterwards. But like, that's what it's like.
• 1:06:11
  Like being famous, I'm sure, you know, obviously, I don't know.
• 1:06:15
  But like, I just remember saying to her, like, if that's a little
• 1:06:19
  bit of what it's like, I don't think I want to be famous.
• 1:06:22
  I don't think I want to be a celebrity ever.
• 1:06:23
  Because that's like like, imagine that.
• 1:06:26
  But like times 10 people doing that all the time.
• 1:06:29
  And like, I don't. I don't want that.
• 1:06:31
  I want to be able to just live my life.
• 1:06:34
  You know what I reckon? I reckon there's like a level
• 1:06:37
  that's perfect. Like you don't.
• 1:06:40
  What? Here, here it is, right.
• 1:06:41
  You don't want to be like Will Smith famous or like Brad Pitt
• 1:06:45
  famous, because then everywhere you go, anywhere in the world,
• 1:06:49
  people recognise you, right? I think it's better to be like
• 1:06:52
  famous in particular places, particular areas.
• 1:06:55
  Like imagine if, for example, you were famous and successful
• 1:06:59
  in England, but then nowhere else.
• 1:07:01
  Yeah, sure. Or the flip reverse.
• 1:07:04
  Actually, it might be better to like, you know, like you go to
• 1:07:06
  the States, they love you, you come back, no one cares.
• 1:07:09
  Great, Perfect. Don't live.
• 1:07:14
  You're famous. Where?
• 1:07:14
  Where? But the place that you live in,
• 1:07:16
  you're not. And that's the thing, like I
• 1:07:18
  always say a lot about me like surprisingly, right.
• 1:07:21
  I am actually an introvert, so it might be hard to believe, but
• 1:07:24
  I am. I had to train myself to be an
• 1:07:26
  extrovert. I still am into into much as I'm
• 1:07:29
  very comfortable in my own light space.
• 1:07:32
  Love that. And you know like I think it's a
• 1:07:37
  bit different when you're with your partner or something like
• 1:07:39
  that that that kind of feels like the same thing sort of, I
• 1:07:43
  don't know. But then, aside from that, it's
• 1:07:46
  like I'm not really that fussed in a group for that.
• 1:07:49
  If there's a room like I'm quite happy on my own.
• 1:07:53
  When I do like creative stuff, my ideal would be like, I come
• 1:07:58
  on the stage, everyone in the room is paying attention to me
• 1:08:01
  right for that 10 minutes and then as soon as I come off the
• 1:08:04
  stage, no one cares. That would be perfect, but
• 1:08:07
  that's not how it works. In an ideal world.
• 1:08:12
  Yeah, in an idea. What?
• 1:08:14
  I no, I agree with you. I think, I think that would be
• 1:08:15
  good. I think in I think in like in
• 1:08:18
  certain circles, that's what I'd like.
• 1:08:20
  So like, I don't know if you know Alex, Alex Honnold, you
• 1:08:25
  know, the climber who did El Capitan.
• 1:08:28
  There was a big there was a documentary about him, it's
• 1:08:30
  called Free Solo. Pretty good.
• 1:08:33
  It's it's worth watching. Netflix.
• 1:08:37
  Disney plus, I think. I just got Netflix.
• 1:08:42
  But like basically he's like a really famous climber and and
• 1:08:47
  he's he's never like done it for the fame.
• 1:08:49
  He's just like he's a really famous climber.
• 1:08:52
  But he's always just like loves climbing and he's really well
• 1:08:55
  known now. But he didn't get well known
• 1:08:58
  until he was in his like late 30s, early 40s.
• 1:09:03
  Yeah, I think he was maybe like 35-6 before he kind of got well
• 1:09:07
  known. And it's it's funny because in a
• 1:09:11
  lot of when you talk to people in the climbing world, in the
• 1:09:14
  climbing circles, he's like a household name.
• 1:09:17
  Alex Honnold. Oh yeah, I know.
• 1:09:19
  But then as soon as, like it's soon as you talk to anyone who's
• 1:09:22
  not in those very specific niche circles, like, you know, you
• 1:09:26
  didn't, you don't know, he had like, no one knows.
• 1:09:28
  I think that would be a really nice level.
• 1:09:30
  Is that in particular circles? Yes.
• 1:09:33
  People know you and people know your work and people want to
• 1:09:35
  talk to you. But those circles are quite
• 1:09:37
  specific and and unique and so that in that you know those
• 1:09:43
  circles make up like 5% of the world.
• 1:09:46
  And so in every other circle for everyone else, no one, no one
• 1:09:51
  gives a shit who you are. That'd be great.
• 1:09:52
  It's brilliant though, isn't it? Like when I was at that football
• 1:09:54
  club the other day, there was a famous footballer there and I
• 1:09:57
  sort of recognised him from like years ago.
• 1:10:01
  I'd like. I don't follow football at all.
• 1:10:02
  But I just was like, yeah, right.
• 1:10:06
  So I was like, oh, OK Just kept going.
• 1:10:09
  Like he was there with his, like, daughter or something.
• 1:10:11
  And they sat down and I sort of came over to the nonchalant
• 1:10:15
  like, hey, can I get you guys anything?
• 1:10:16
  They're like, no, they're like, OK, cool.
• 1:10:18
  But, like, three other people had gone to see them, right,
• 1:10:20
  Because of who they were. And then there were people like,
• 1:10:23
  oh, do you know who that is? I used to play for and I was
• 1:10:27
  like, oh, is it OK? Yeah, I sort of recognise it.
• 1:10:30
  And another person came up to me and she was like, oh, are you
• 1:10:34
  into football? Do you follow football?
• 1:10:35
  I'm like, Nope. And she just started laughing.
• 1:10:37
  I'm like, Yep, I just, Oh my God, like, you know, nothing
• 1:10:40
  against it, but just not my thing.
• 1:10:43
  But I love that. Or like, for instance, because
• 1:10:47
  that's the thing people trip. Like everyone was like tripping
• 1:10:49
  over themselves to go over to the sky.
• 1:10:51
  And I'm thinking, and I've, I've thought about this a lot more
• 1:10:54
  because I've started meeting famous people more regularly
• 1:10:57
  through doing this, Right. And sorry to break it down for
• 1:11:01
  you guys, but they are just people.
• 1:11:04
  Sometimes you meet your heroes and it's cool.
• 1:11:06
  I met my hero, John Bailey, the voice actor.
• 1:11:10
  He was on my podcast recently and that was awesome, Really
• 1:11:13
  nice guy. But I was a bit anxious because
• 1:11:17
  most of my experiences meeting people that are heroes hasn't
• 1:11:20
  gone well. So it that was a nice surprise.
• 1:11:23
  Sometimes I I think people who stay grounded and stay human
• 1:11:28
  tend to be like nicer than other people.
• 1:11:32
  They just, I guess they get okay.
• 1:11:37
  This is what I imagine being famous is like, right?
• 1:11:40
  I get. I'm sure you do too.
• 1:11:42
  Right when when a bunch of people give you compliments at
• 1:11:44
  once like it's it's nice to get a few.
• 1:11:46
  But when you get like ton it's like okay thank you your biggest
• 1:11:50
  but. Doing this now.
• 1:11:52
  Yeah, it's awkward, isn't it? It's, it's like because you
• 1:11:54
  start thinking like I'm not, I'm not that great.
• 1:11:56
  I mean, yeah, I'm good at this thing.
• 1:11:58
  I guess, you know, I worked at it.
• 1:11:59
  But like, I'm not. Nothing special.
• 1:12:01
  Although, you know, I say that a lot in like live streams.
• 1:12:03
  I'm like, yeah, no, like, like someone would be like, oh,
• 1:12:06
  you're good looking about, oh, it's just the lighting, Which I
• 1:12:08
  do mean that when I say that lighting really helps.
• 1:12:11
  Just, yeah. I look like I'm regressing my
• 1:12:15
  choice. Now I feel like I'm in a I'm.
• 1:12:18
  I'm very like lit, like I'm in a horror film or like I'm.
• 1:12:21
  Doing It's Artie. It's artistic.
• 1:12:24
  I think it's. I think it's just not well
• 1:12:26
  thoughts out, but thanks. Well, it's.
• 1:12:30
  I mean, that's a good point though, isn't it?
• 1:12:31
  It's all about perceptions, about how people perceive
• 1:12:33
  things. That's true, yeah.
• 1:12:35
  But, and to speak to that, I mean, the amount of people that
• 1:12:39
  I see just like completely change.
• 1:12:40
  When someone enters a room, they're like.
• 1:12:43
  Do you? Know who that is?
• 1:12:44
  Oh, my God. And then you meet the person and
• 1:12:47
  they're like, oh, do you know where coffee is?
• 1:12:50
  And I'm like, yeah, like, cool. Oh, you're doing.
• 1:12:53
  I'm doing this. Oh, you didn't.
• 1:12:54
  Oh, nice to meet you, man. How's it going?
• 1:12:56
  Yeah, that's it. People.
• 1:12:57
  People. Just people.
• 1:13:00
  It's just people. It's an interesting point
• 1:13:01
  because as soon as soon as like someone's famous and they're
• 1:13:04
  revered by a certain, you know, group of people, as soon as as
• 1:13:08
  soon as you like as soon as someone comes along, whether
• 1:13:11
  it's you or someone else who like doesn't know who that
• 1:13:13
  person is, it's yeah, it completely changes like well
• 1:13:16
  then that's just a person. I've.
• 1:13:18
  I've definitely had that. I can't think of a specific
• 1:13:20
  example but I've definitely had that where someone's been like,
• 1:13:23
  Oh my God, that person next to you.
• 1:13:25
  Do you know who that person who was the next to us And like no.
• 1:13:28
  Like you know that's a famous footballer.
• 1:13:30
  That's like I don't know, you know.
• 1:13:32
  Oh that's a famous Twitch streamer.
• 1:13:34
  I. Think what people forget,
• 1:13:38
  though. A lot of the time with this
• 1:13:39
  stuff is, yeah, A, it's still a person.
• 1:13:42
  And B, like that person in that scenario, like whatever, they're
• 1:13:49
  just having dinner or they're just like I don't know.
• 1:13:52
  Like it's even if you would talk to.
• 1:13:55
  Like in that times I've I've, I've spoken to someone or seen
• 1:13:58
  someone and I can tell they've had like that thing said to the
• 1:14:04
  I'll give you an example. When I worked on Hollyoaks, I I
• 1:14:08
  worked alongside James Sutton who plays John Paul.
• 1:14:12
  And I used to grow up watching that show.
• 1:14:15
  I don't I haven't watched it in many, many years but I watched
• 1:14:17
  it in the 2000s because it was awesome and he was on it and it
• 1:14:21
  was it was kind of surreal seeing him there.
• 1:14:25
  But you know it quite it kind of quickly hit me like, hey we're
• 1:14:29
  all here do a job. Like do you know what I'm
• 1:14:32
  saying? Like it Is it with the novelty
• 1:14:34
  kind of wore off, like extremely quickly.
• 1:14:37
  Yeah, sure. But when we started chatting and
• 1:14:39
  he was taking an interest in me, like that was very flattering
• 1:14:42
  and very nice. And but then I also realised
• 1:14:45
  like, oh, he's just a dude. Like he's just a guy and like
• 1:14:48
  this is his journey and he's like ahead of me in that
• 1:14:53
  journey. But then that was like kind of a
• 1:14:55
  light bulb for me as well, because it was like, oh, you
• 1:14:57
  know, that's all it is. Like you meet people in the
• 1:15:00
  industry and they're like Eva doing better than you, not as
• 1:15:04
  well as you, same as you, like, whatever.
• 1:15:06
  Like, we're all at different points, but we're all just
• 1:15:08
  people trying to do creative stuff.
• 1:15:10
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.
• 1:15:12
  Everyone's trying to do the next thing and and yeah, everyone.
• 1:15:15
  Everyone's just like most people are just normal people who have,
• 1:15:19
  you know, and we've like everyone's been at this level at
• 1:15:23
  some point. Everyone's like everyone started
• 1:15:24
  from somewhere. Yeah, it's, I mean it's, it's,
• 1:15:29
  it's like when I met, when I was like 12 or 13, I went on this
• 1:15:35
  like this, like film making workshop in my local town.
• 1:15:41
  And the guy that was running it had like, he'd like, had a bit
• 1:15:47
  of work in the industry. He'd done like a few things for
• 1:15:49
  BBC, done some acting as well. And I remember hearing that he
• 1:15:53
  was like he told me that he was in this film called Severance.
• 1:15:57
  It's this like it's this two. I think it's like 2006 or 7.
• 1:16:03
  It's ABBC horror film, BBC funded horror film.
• 1:16:07
  It's got Tim Mckinry in it from Blackadder, that's it's probably
• 1:16:14
  got quite a few others in it, but that's the one name I
• 1:16:17
  remember. But anyway, this guy that I met
• 1:16:19
  was had like a really small role.
• 1:16:21
  He was like he he was only in like a scene or two.
• 1:16:27
  Soldier #2. Like that, Yeah.
• 1:16:29
  I think. I think he was called creditors,
• 1:16:31
  like big gun killer or something like that, but bless you.
• 1:16:39
  Thank you. Sorry, I haven't got out.
• 1:16:41
  No, it's fine. But like at the time I remember
• 1:16:45
  being 12 or 13, like being really amazed.
• 1:16:50
  I was like, whoa, this guy's been in, This guy's like been in
• 1:16:53
  this film. And I went and watched the film
• 1:16:54
  and I remember seeing him. And I was like, that's so cool.
• 1:16:58
  Like, again, Like, I think like a short film competition.
• 1:17:03
  And I was like, really nervous. And I was like, oh, oh, like,
• 1:17:06
  oh, what was it like doing that? Like, I can remember asking him
• 1:17:09
  questions and thinking like, this is really cool.
• 1:17:11
  This guy's been in, you know, these films or whatever.
• 1:17:16
  And I and I anyway, I I still know the guy and I've worked
• 1:17:18
  with him quite a few times. I was talking to him the other
• 1:17:22
  day, actually, and like, now I'm not that age.
• 1:17:25
  And also now I'm just like got to know more like, oh, he's he's
• 1:17:29
  just a man. Like he's like, I mean he's not,
• 1:17:32
  you know, he's, he's not famous, he's not a household name or
• 1:17:36
  anything. He's only done a few things.
• 1:17:39
  But still he's done some films and you know, like he's been in
• 1:17:41
  the industry. And at the time, I remember when
• 1:17:43
  I was young, I was like, that's so cool.
• 1:17:45
  Like that's really special to me, someone who's had that
• 1:17:49
  experience in this stuff. But like like as I got to know,
• 1:17:52
  I'm like, oh, he's he's just, he's just a guy and he's just,
• 1:17:54
  he's had this work and it is cool and it's impressive.
• 1:17:56
  But like, he's just a he's just a person.
• 1:18:00
  I think one thing about this star, we'll add a caveat to this
• 1:18:03
  is that there are human beings in life that give off like
• 1:18:08
  particular energies or are fascinating with their ideas or
• 1:18:11
  the way they put things together.
• 1:18:12
  Like there are still celebrities that, like, if I met them, I'd
• 1:18:16
  be so excited to meet them because I'd want to sit and have
• 1:18:21
  a conversation with them. And you know what I'm saying?
• 1:18:24
  Like there's just I I think that element will never disappear
• 1:18:27
  like. Oh, there's there's definitely
• 1:18:28
  people who, if I met them, I would just absolutely, I'd, I'd
• 1:18:31
  turn into an idiot. I just don't know what to say
• 1:18:34
  because I like because I really admire them and respect them,
• 1:18:37
  you know? Definitely, definitely.
• 1:18:39
  Incredible stuff. Yeah.
• 1:18:41
  We have to remember this when we've become famous, so.
• 1:18:46
  If it happens, yeah. What's your kind of like
• 1:18:53
  philosophy on on cinematography and filmography.
• 1:18:55
  I'm quite interested to kind of get your, your perspective on on
• 1:18:59
  what makes a good cinematographer and
• 1:19:02
  filmographer. Throwing the big questions at me
• 1:19:06
  now. That's it.
• 1:19:10
  That's a tough one. What makes?
• 1:19:14
  In your opinion. Again, it's really obvious.
• 1:19:19
  The first thing that springs my mind is just is just being a
• 1:19:22
  nice person. Because if you're a nice person
• 1:19:27
  people want to work with you and you know your your your name
• 1:19:32
  will get thrown around more. Well, I guess I've got thrown
• 1:19:35
  around for if you're not a nice person.
• 1:19:37
  But the right way, you know that in my opinion has has in my
• 1:19:44
  experience has so far been. That's the thing that's got me.
• 1:19:49
  I think a lot of my work is people recommending me and and
• 1:19:56
  my company and word of mouth. I always just like to pretend
• 1:20:01
  that no one ever talks about me. I just assume that people don't.
• 1:20:04
  Or if if if I you know what I mean like I don't like to think
• 1:20:07
  about that like. I don't, I don't assume people
• 1:20:11
  do, but I but from what I know of like how I've got certain
• 1:20:14
  pieces of work. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:20:16
  Someone said, oh you know, someone recommended you because
• 1:20:18
  of blah blah blah. Like, I've had a few, like
• 1:20:21
  testimonials from people and that that kind of has been one
• 1:20:27
  of the style of things. I think not.
• 1:20:29
  I sound like I can blow my own trumpet, you know?
• 1:20:31
  No, no, no. Hey, listen, you're spot on with
• 1:20:33
  this. I think, like a big part of it
• 1:20:36
  is, can I work with this person? You know, like whenever I work
• 1:20:40
  with people and it was brilliant, I keep their names in
• 1:20:42
  mind and I recommend them. Like, I recommend you, I
• 1:20:45
  recommend Dan. I recommend like everybody all
• 1:20:47
  the time. You know, whenever there's an
• 1:20:49
  opportunity, I'm like, yeah, oh, you need a good cinematographer.
• 1:20:51
  I know just the guy. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:54
  Well, thank you. That's very nice of you.
• 1:20:55
  I mean that's exactly, I mean that's that's exactly like you
• 1:20:59
  mentioned down. That's great point.
• 1:21:01
  Like I like I met him from literally seeing a post on
• 1:21:06
  Facebook. He was like making his feature
• 1:21:11
  at the time and I literally just quit my job at Ofsted and I
• 1:21:15
  needed AI was just like wanting to get more film stuff not even
• 1:21:18
  not even paid work. I wanted just, I wanted to
• 1:21:20
  collaborate and like I'd I'd only been in Manchester like 10
• 1:21:24
  months, I wanted to you know meet more people in the circles.
• 1:21:28
  And so that was, you know, literally an afternoon of
• 1:21:31
  meeting Dan like already spent like four or five hours not even
• 1:21:37
  working closely with him because I was like one of the extras and
• 1:21:38
  he was reacting people. But I remember just from that
• 1:21:41
  one experience I was like, oh that was like he's a really nice
• 1:21:46
  bloke. Like I really enjoy that
• 1:21:47
  experience And and then like from that you know watched him a
• 1:21:53
  bit more and then quickly became good friends and to the point
• 1:21:58
  where you know we we just go and hang out together and like, but
• 1:22:01
  like I remember that really sticking my head like an
• 1:22:04
  afternoon working with after like literally one afternoon
• 1:22:06
  working with him. I was like oh that that was a
• 1:22:09
  really nice experience. What a nice guy.
• 1:22:11
  I'd I'd like happily work with him again.
• 1:22:14
  And that's the story. He really does.
• 1:22:17
  Especially I think, because I remember dancing this as well.
• 1:22:20
  Like there's something to do with like when you recognise
• 1:22:23
  someone's talent, certain things that they're really, really good
• 1:22:26
  at, or like maybe even just like their attitude, stuff like that.
• 1:22:30
  It's like, oh, what if I have this project, I'm going to need
• 1:22:33
  this, this, this, oh, these people definitely fit that.
• 1:22:36
  Because I remember when we worked on this thing, you know,
• 1:22:39
  it's like that's what always kind of sticks out in my mind.
• 1:22:44
  And you know, obviously you know me, I get ideas for things and
• 1:22:47
  I'll throw ideas out there like we should try this, we should
• 1:22:49
  try this, we should try this. And like, I don't know, I think
• 1:22:52
  this I will always keep pushing them, no matter how frustrating
• 1:22:55
  it might be. But I think it's, I think it's
• 1:22:58
  worth it, you know. And I think also you get the
• 1:23:02
  best out of each other because, you know, there's a lot of
• 1:23:05
  instances where you walk on set, you do something like that.
• 1:23:07
  And maybe not everyone's into it.
• 1:23:09
  Maybe some people see it more as a job.
• 1:23:11
  Fair enough. Or.
• 1:23:12
  Or maybe they're just, you know, like there's not much room for
• 1:23:18
  creativity. I mean, I remember James when he
• 1:23:20
  was on my show, he told me this is James Anita, the actor.
• 1:23:24
  He said he'd worked on the project where it was very kind
• 1:23:28
  of you come in, you do the lines, you leave kind of thing.
• 1:23:32
  And he was like wanted to kind of explore a little bit and and
• 1:23:37
  the director was like, no, no, no, I don't want it like this.
• 1:23:39
  I want it exactly like this and like that.
• 1:23:41
  I know for me that would be very frustrating like because I I
• 1:23:44
  don't want to come in and like change someone's vision.
• 1:23:47
  I want to put put a sort of a stamp on it as far as like I
• 1:23:53
  want to. I want to have the freedom to to
• 1:23:54
  suggest ideas and be like, OK, what if we would try this, What
• 1:23:58
  about this, you know? And I don't want to be shut down
• 1:24:01
  immediately, but but at the same time, like, I'm not going to be
• 1:24:04
  like, I'm not doing this like just because you did something
• 1:24:07
  that you know what? Because it's still someone
• 1:24:09
  else's vision, I get. It it's it's a fine line, isn't
• 1:24:12
  it? Between like you don't want to
• 1:24:14
  stand on someone's toes you like you want to be respectful of
• 1:24:19
  what they've come up with and and what they've hired you to
• 1:24:22
  do. But also you're not.
• 1:24:23
  Just like you're not you're not a talking prop.
• 1:24:25
  You're not just there to like you know they can't just kind of
• 1:24:28
  push a button. You do what they want and then
• 1:24:30
  you go you've got to like you've got to you've got to be able to
• 1:24:35
  like it's I think even just knowing to have the freedom to
• 1:24:38
  suggest things even if the director then goes, no sorry you
• 1:24:42
  know thanks for asking but that's not really what I'm
• 1:24:44
  looking for. There's, I think having like
• 1:24:47
  knowing that it's OK to try to like suggest things.
• 1:24:51
  It's it's, yeah, I think that's what's up.
• 1:24:52
  It's always a fine line. Just go back to per your
• 1:24:57
  thoughts on cinematography for a second, because you spoke more
• 1:25:00
  about, you spoke more about like the type of person you.
• 1:25:04
  I get that. But I want to kind of like
• 1:25:05
  understand a bit more about how you view you know things on like
• 1:25:12
  a shot by shot basis, whether it's the set up of things or or
• 1:25:15
  shooting things in a particular way.
• 1:25:17
  Like because one thing that I really like is how you shoot
• 1:25:22
  things like your choice of like the visuals and stuff like that.
• 1:25:26
  Like I've only really seen 2 productions you've done that
• 1:25:29
  I've been a part of. So I want to see more and I will
• 1:25:33
  it. Will.
• 1:25:33
  Definitely, yeah, definitely Will.
• 1:25:36
  Not but with Ono guano and and chalk chips.
• 1:25:38
  The recent short films we did, like, I noticed that there was a
• 1:25:41
  somewhat of AI mean maybe it's just because they're comedy
• 1:25:46
  films, so there's that kind of carrying over element.
• 1:25:48
  But there was also just like the way it was shot felt like it had
• 1:25:52
  your stamp and it had that kind of, you know, it's the same
• 1:25:55
  person filming it. OK.
• 1:25:57
  Yeah. So yeah, tell me, you're kind of
• 1:25:59
  like your, let's say, your process, your set up, your kind
• 1:26:02
  of view of of how things should be from the cinematography
• 1:26:05
  perspective? I mean, I think I've always, I
• 1:26:11
  was talking to her about this the other day.
• 1:26:13
  I've always not had a lot to work with in terms of I've
• 1:26:22
  always been restricted in terms of I've not had the money to
• 1:26:25
  hire kids or I've not had, you know, the amount of people I
• 1:26:30
  need to pull something off. So I think I've I've got very
• 1:26:34
  used to making a lot of a little which I think is a good thing.
• 1:26:40
  I think you know if you can work within boundaries and if you can
• 1:26:43
  like if you can find a way to do something that is affordable and
• 1:26:52
  cheap you know that and like it's still going to look good.
• 1:26:56
  I think it's a skill. It's like if you can make a lot
• 1:26:59
  happen out of a little then you you know you get used to being
• 1:27:02
  able to kind of you know it's frugal.
• 1:27:04
  And then when it comes to having either more money or better kit
• 1:27:08
  or more people around you even just like a few more people to
• 1:27:12
  delegate jobs. Then I think then you know
• 1:27:16
  you've had the experience working with less So that then
• 1:27:18
  when it comes to working with more you know you you've got
• 1:27:22
  more at your disposal, you can make more out of that.
• 1:27:25
  So I think I think I'm just very used to kind of it's
• 1:27:29
  specifically in terms of like a quick let's say I'm just very
• 1:27:32
  used to working with not a lot. So you know I'm, I think I'm
• 1:27:37
  quite good at being able to look at a shot and go, OK, well this
• 1:27:40
  is what I want to achieve. So how can we do that you know
• 1:27:44
  with with three lights and a bit of tape, you know, Yeah, I think
• 1:27:51
  I mean in terms of how I shoot things, I guess I probably
• 1:27:55
  because of that I I think I rely a lot on, I think I rely a lot
• 1:28:01
  on like natural light. I mean I like it.
• 1:28:05
  I really like the look of things that are shot with natural
• 1:28:08
  light. So I try and incorporate that a
• 1:28:12
  lot. I again, because of the like
• 1:28:16
  limitations to equipment and budget.
• 1:28:18
  I think a lot of the time I'll try and and definitely more
• 1:28:21
  recently in the last couple of years I've tried to make
• 1:28:25
  practical lights a part of a shop.
• 1:28:27
  So rather than like now where I've got a light on the side and
• 1:28:32
  a light down here just to light my face because there's just a
• 1:28:35
  white wall behind me, light that kind of just is coming from
• 1:28:38
  nowhere. I'll like try and in a shot or
• 1:28:40
  in a scene include some light that actually is in there.
• 1:28:44
  So like if there's a lamp here, you know, great, like let's or
• 1:28:49
  even if there's not there's a table here, great.
• 1:28:50
  Let's put a lamp on that. And then we've got some light
• 1:28:53
  that is just automatically coming from that and hitting the
• 1:28:55
  back and side of the actor's face.
• 1:28:58
  And then we can bring in a small light, you know, and put it even
• 1:29:02
  like not specifically there, roughly over this area.
• 1:29:05
  And we can like imply that that light is coming from this lamp
• 1:29:09
  because we can see it. So it makes sense.
• 1:29:11
  So, you know, it motivated light.
• 1:29:14
  So like if there's a light over there, you know, like this
• 1:29:17
  thing, you know, suddenly like like this light there, if it was
• 1:29:22
  like a scene, it looks weird because it's like, well, where's
• 1:29:24
  this light coming from? But as soon as it's not the
• 1:29:27
  right colour for a lamp, but like as soon as there's like a
• 1:29:30
  physical lamp there in the scene that the audience can see in the
• 1:29:32
  shot, suddenly this light coming from up here doesn't look so
• 1:29:38
  weird because it's it's motivated by a source.
• 1:29:41
  Whereas if there's just like if I like if I was, if this is like
• 1:29:44
  a short film and I just suddenly had this blue light on me and
• 1:29:49
  this is the shot, like you're like, where the fuck is that
• 1:29:51
  blue light coming from? Like that Does that looks weird
• 1:29:54
  because it doesn't make sense. But if there was something that
• 1:29:59
  casts a blue light in the shot, then it would make sense.
• 1:30:04
  Oh shit. Got these effects on that.
• 1:30:06
  I'd never really thought about stuff like this.
• 1:30:09
  Yeah, I mean again I and it for for me it can very much come
• 1:30:12
  that comes from a place of going OK, I don't have a lot of money
• 1:30:15
  to to hire all these expensive lights.
• 1:30:17
  So I'm going to make to be what I have and and like and have
• 1:30:22
  this light as part of the scene because then I can stick this,
• 1:30:25
  you know this light in here and make it make sense and this is
• 1:30:30
  £20. Really.
• 1:30:33
  Yeah, it's it's, it's plastic. It's, you know, wow, it's really
• 1:30:37
  cheap, but it does the job. So you don't have to break your
• 1:30:41
  bank to to get those effects, though that's interesting.
• 1:30:44
  Definitely not. I mean there's more expensive
• 1:30:46
  versions these you can get and I'm sure they're better and
• 1:30:48
  probably will last longer. But yeah, well it's £20 last
• 1:30:51
  last year for a short film, so that's I guess that's one side
• 1:30:56
  of it whiles I don't really know, I don't really know how to
• 1:31:03
  answer this. I'm kind of this is.
• 1:31:04
  I wasn't prepared for this question.
• 1:31:05
  I should have been prepared for this question.
• 1:31:06
  I'm not. Stumped you.
• 1:31:09
  Yeah. No, it's great.
• 1:31:10
  It's great. I suppose from like in terms of
• 1:31:13
  a process of shooting things. I I suppose I like my method of
• 1:31:23
  doing things I I don't. I never have storyboards.
• 1:31:27
  I'd love to have storyboards but I hate making them.
• 1:31:31
  I really. I find it really tedious to make
• 1:31:33
  them so if if I can if like if I had someone else making them
• 1:31:36
  brilliant. And there's we did an ad for my
• 1:31:41
  company, didn't ad for the beginning of 2022.
• 1:31:44
  And we like had to have storyboards because we had to
• 1:31:49
  like get approval from the client of what the shots, what
• 1:31:52
  the film would look like. And so one of the people that
• 1:31:56
  was on our team who was she was like the producer.
• 1:32:00
  She's also an artist. So she drew up the storyboard
• 1:32:03
  and they look really nice, they look lovely and that was really
• 1:32:07
  helpful. But generally I won't bother
• 1:32:09
  with them because I don't have the I don't have someone there
• 1:32:12
  to do them. Either I don't have someone
• 1:32:15
  there to do them or it doesn't make sense for what project I'm
• 1:32:19
  doing to have them either. Like, the crew is really small,
• 1:32:23
  so there's no point having these because I don't.
• 1:32:24
  I don't need to show like 20 people what the shots seem to
• 1:32:27
  look like or it doesn't make sense in terms of like the
• 1:32:32
  amount of time we're going to spend on, oh, we're going to
• 1:32:34
  shoot this in two days. We don't need a story reward
• 1:32:36
  because it's, you know, we're getting 15 shots a day, doesn't
• 1:32:41
  matter. So I I just, I just do shot
• 1:32:44
  lists. I'll do a shot list.
• 1:32:47
  I'll make sure everyone knows what shots we're doing.
• 1:32:52
  I'll I will do a storyboard and Draw Something out.
• 1:32:54
  If something is quite complex and like hard to explain or like
• 1:32:58
  hard to see as just writing on a page.
• 1:33:02
  So like if there's anything that's like involves a lot of
• 1:33:05
  camera movement or if there's a lot of different lights that
• 1:33:10
  need to be placed in a scene, I'll like draw like a floor plan
• 1:33:14
  or a storyboard just to be able to like rather than trying to
• 1:33:16
  explain it just so I can literally go, this is what we're
• 1:33:20
  going to try and achieve. But other than that just short
• 1:33:25
  lists and then just, I mean I'm still working it out.
• 1:33:30
  It's still a process like I've still I've, you know I've I've
• 1:33:33
  not got it figured it out. I don't think anyone ever has.
• 1:33:37
  But I'm still, yeah, I'm getting better.
• 1:33:42
  For instance, now on projects I'm trying to make, I'm trying
• 1:33:46
  to, I'm trying to minimise because I'm spending more time
• 1:33:51
  on things, on shots and on scenes, just because I think
• 1:33:56
  anyone naturally does as they improve.
• 1:34:00
  What I'm trying to say, I'm trying to say a few years ago if
• 1:34:04
  I was making a short film, each shot would probably take a few
• 1:34:08
  minutes. You know, even as a few takes
• 1:34:12
  one, take two, take bam, bam, bam.
• 1:34:13
  Let's do some more shots like great, got that?
• 1:34:15
  Let's get another shot, bam. Now I'm more conscious of and I
• 1:34:20
  think that again becomes from like having restrictions for oh
• 1:34:23
  we've only got, you know a certain amount of time to shoot
• 1:34:26
  this or we've only got this location for for today.
• 1:34:31
  So let's make it count. Whereas now I think I'm more
• 1:34:33
  conscious of like quality. So I'm now, I'd rather spend,
• 1:34:39
  you know, an hour on one shot because it matters and I care
• 1:34:47
  more. I understand that, you know, the
• 1:34:49
  time equals quality, not completely, but it definitely
• 1:34:55
  helps. And so I think now I kind of
• 1:35:01
  like I actually involve like set up time.
• 1:35:05
  OK, well, there's these three shots to get.
• 1:35:07
  So there's, you know, 5 or 10 minutes set up for each.
• 1:35:11
  So actually we're going to need to do this, you know, make sure
• 1:35:15
  like we focus on this first. And in that, I think I'm trying
• 1:35:20
  to, like shoot things in a smarter way.
• 1:35:25
  So in a short film, oh, then Shock Chips, I was shooting
• 1:35:30
  everything on like that side of the room 1st and then everything
• 1:35:35
  on the opposite side of the room after that.
• 1:35:38
  Because you know you're lighting in a certain way for one side of
• 1:35:42
  the room, so and not even lighting but you know set
• 1:35:47
  dressing like so lights are all here that we're looking that
• 1:35:51
  way. You know, if I I can't send,
• 1:35:54
  then suddenly go like, oh, I'm going to turn around quick to
• 1:35:55
  get a shot over here. Even if it takes a second to
• 1:35:58
  switch the lights around, there's still a load of shit
• 1:36:00
  over there that I don't want in the shop.
• 1:36:01
  We haven't dressed that part of the set or that's where the crew
• 1:36:04
  is standing and they've got like, their bags and like, it
• 1:36:06
  takes time to take all that stuff out.
• 1:36:09
  So even if it's kind of maybe a bit more confusing and we're
• 1:36:13
  shooting out of order and it's rare to shoot chronologically
• 1:36:16
  anyway. But like, you know, if we're
• 1:36:18
  shooting in a bit of a weird order for the axes or for anyone
• 1:36:21
  else, it's more smart to shoot everything on that side.
• 1:36:25
  Get all that coverage 1st and then switch everything round
• 1:36:30
  because then you're not constantly switching because
• 1:36:32
  then that's what takes time. So I'm and that's, I mean that's
• 1:36:35
  something that I've never really kind of bothered with before.
• 1:36:37
  But literally in just the last year, I think I'm more conscious
• 1:36:40
  of that. So I'm trying to.
• 1:36:42
  I'm trying to do more of that. That's for sharing man.
• 1:36:46
  Really appreciate it. No worries, I hope I didn't just
• 1:36:48
  ramble on. No, I love it.
• 1:36:50
  Ramble more, please. No, it's good to get into your,
• 1:36:55
  like, the way that you see these things, because I think that's
• 1:37:00
  part of probably, I don't know, my opinion, like the most
• 1:37:03
  fascinating element to creativity is how someone sees
• 1:37:07
  something, because it'll be totally different to like, how I
• 1:37:09
  see or how this person sees it. But that's fascinating.
• 1:37:12
  And also it's like, it's just, it's just interesting, like the
• 1:37:18
  things that people pick up on or point out, like for instance,
• 1:37:22
  Jodie Griffiths, she was on choc chips with us and she's really
• 1:37:26
  good at just spotting things that were out of place, like she
• 1:37:29
  was like spotting like continuity errors.
• 1:37:31
  And none of us even, like, picked up on that like, oh shit.
• 1:37:34
  Lightsaber. For that I remember.
• 1:37:36
  Being so glad that she was there because I was like, Oh my God,
• 1:37:39
  like I would have never spotted that thing.
• 1:37:41
  Like, there's several instances where she said something and we
• 1:37:43
  were all like, oh wow, yeah. Yeah, that's the thing like it's
• 1:37:48
  it's all just about how you you view things and see things and
• 1:37:52
  and making sure to be vocal and say that and obviously what if
• 1:37:54
  you lead in the situation, then that's great.
• 1:37:56
  You can kind of guide it and paint your vision and create it
• 1:37:59
  and structure it, make it a reality.
• 1:38:05
  What's been the most challenging experience you've had in your
• 1:38:07
  career so far? Wow, that's challenging.
• 1:38:16
  There's probably loads and I'll probably think of most of them
• 1:38:20
  in like 4 hours. I think the first thing that
• 1:38:29
  comes to mind is, is just finding a balance of making
• 1:38:37
  money and enjoying myself. And I think that's the thing
• 1:38:41
  that I've struggled with for the last year or two is OK, I'm, I'm
• 1:38:46
  making films for a living. You know I'm, I'm getting to
• 1:38:51
  create content and create videos and that's great.
• 1:38:55
  But you know, it's it's stuff for other people.
• 1:38:57
  It's stuff that I still care about but I'm not you know,
• 1:39:02
  overly invested in. And I'm, I mean and if we're if
• 1:39:04
  we're really boiling it down, I'm doing it for the money like
• 1:39:08
  someone tied me to this thing. I'm not just going to go and do
• 1:39:10
  it because I want to. I'm going to do it because it's
• 1:39:14
  probably interesting as well. But you know, also a big factor
• 1:39:17
  is that they're paying me. So I think the biggest thing
• 1:39:23
  when like when I'm when my job is making videos and filming
• 1:39:26
  things, I've found increasingly that it's it's so much harder to
• 1:39:32
  then go and make something for fun in my free time because
• 1:39:36
  suddenly picking up the camera feels too much like work.
• 1:39:38
  So as soon as like as soon as I've, you know thought about
• 1:39:44
  like making a short film, I kind of instantly just gone, Oh well,
• 1:39:49
  I don't want to because that's like that's that's work now
• 1:39:54
  that's that's that's not fun so. When we first met and we spoke
• 1:40:02
  about this and I spoke about doing like little jobs on the
• 1:40:05
  side, whatever to make ends meet, you point blank said.
• 1:40:11
  No, I wouldn't do that. I can't do.
• 1:40:14
  Jobs that aren't this, like this is what I do, This is, you know,
• 1:40:16
  cinematography. And I really respected that
• 1:40:19
  because I thought it was awesome.
• 1:40:19
  It was like, no, I can't allow that to happen.
• 1:40:23
  This is what I do. I know that you took on a new
• 1:40:28
  job recently. Yeah.
• 1:40:30
  And I know that it's not specifically to do with film
• 1:40:34
  making that. Am I right?
• 1:40:37
  Well, it it's it's sort of is it isn't it Isn't it?
• 1:40:41
  It's in the same it's because it's like a it's a being a
• 1:40:45
  technician on a film course. So it's not filmmaking, but
• 1:40:51
  it's. No, but this is, this is
• 1:40:53
  interesting to like detail this because we change our minds
• 1:40:58
  about things all the time in life.
• 1:40:59
  And there's reasons why that happens.
• 1:41:01
  And I wanted to ask you about this, but I was trying to figure
• 1:41:04
  out a way to like, broach it. And I'm so happy that this is
• 1:41:10
  the, like, there's like, that's the thing.
• 1:41:12
  Like, I don't think that you specifically as a person ever
• 1:41:17
  make any decision like, oh, I'll just do this.
• 1:41:19
  And then like, you know, like maybe sometimes you do.
• 1:41:21
  But, like, I feel like when it comes to your career and what
• 1:41:24
  you want to do, it's very clear and thought out.
• 1:41:27
  And that feels to me very clear and thought out.
• 1:41:31
  You want more time? Sorry.
• 1:41:34
  You want to reignite the fun in film making.
• 1:41:39
  And to do that, it can't be full of doing stuff you don't want to
• 1:41:44
  do. Because I I get what you're what
• 1:41:45
  you're what you're saying here. Because when I've done too many
• 1:41:49
  of these like commercial things myself, I get a bit like, you
• 1:41:53
  know what I mean? Like, it's when are we going to
• 1:41:54
  do what I love again? And it's, yeah, that's the
• 1:41:58
  thing. You don't want to suck the fun
• 1:41:59
  out of it and you don't want it to feel too much like monotonous
• 1:42:03
  or or like just a process anymore.
• 1:42:05
  I mean, it's it's the reason that sometimes I steer away from
• 1:42:09
  like, extras work or stuff like that, because it's like, yeah,
• 1:42:12
  it's money and yeah, maybe there's an opportunity there,
• 1:42:14
  but, like, I hate the way it makes me feel.
• 1:42:17
  Yeah, yeah, You know, I hate, I hate feeling less of them.
• 1:42:21
  Yeah. Because I know I'm better than I
• 1:42:22
  know I. Deserve something with extra
• 1:42:25
  work as well it it does have that effect.
• 1:42:27
  Not all the time, but a lot of the time.
• 1:42:29
  I'm really glad. I'm.
• 1:42:30
  I'm proud of you. I'm really glad that you're
• 1:42:32
  doing this and that. Thank you.
• 1:42:34
  I think all because hopefully as well, we'll see more filmmaking
• 1:42:37
  out of you, which you know, goes back to when I first met you.
• 1:42:40
  That's what you wanted to do was more creative filmmaking, and
• 1:42:44
  it's going to be great to see that coming out of you now.
• 1:42:48
  Thanks. Thanks.
• 1:42:49
  I I hope so. Yeah.
• 1:42:50
  I'm glad you. I'm glad you said that.
• 1:42:54
  Yeah I I think that's that's the that's the hope now is that you
• 1:42:59
  know I'm I've just well not started yet but I'm starting
• 1:43:02
  this new job soon and it's something different it's
• 1:43:06
  something that is kind of again it's it's involving elements of
• 1:43:11
  what I'm used to but also there's other parts of it that
• 1:43:13
  I'm not which will be a challenge which is scary but I'm
• 1:43:17
  also looking forward to that challenge but.
• 1:43:19
  The most important thing is that you won't pick up the camera,
• 1:43:24
  right? So when you're so you're dying
• 1:43:27
  to pick up the camera you feel like.
• 1:43:29
  Wow, what have you been itching when?
• 1:43:30
  Are we going to pick up the camera again?
• 1:43:31
  And then when you do, that's when you make your best.
• 1:43:34
  Work. Exactly and and so and so
• 1:43:36
  because picking up the camera and and you know doing what I
• 1:43:40
  would do on a film isn't going to be part of my routine at
• 1:43:45
  least every every day. You know I think it's it will
• 1:43:50
  hopefully make pick up the camera and doing that more of a
• 1:43:55
  joy again and you know I'll actually look forward to it.
• 1:44:01
  Yeah that's yeah that's the hope.
• 1:44:04
  Like you say it'll kind of reignite that spark.
• 1:44:06
  I mean I mean I think I'm I'm definitely in a better place now
• 1:44:08
  with that than I was like a year ago.
• 1:44:10
  So like last year I was like really fed up and that's why I
• 1:44:15
  like I put out a call I put like a post on some Facebook groups
• 1:44:19
  and said like I just want to make some stuff not for money.
• 1:44:22
  I just want to make some short films for fun.
• 1:44:24
  Let's collaborate with people. And that's How I Met Andy and
• 1:44:26
  Craig, who I've done like, so straight away in January, you
• 1:44:31
  know, the end of January, early Feb, we were like, great, let's
• 1:44:35
  make something. So we made, we made different
• 1:44:37
  and then we made. And that was great because I was
• 1:44:39
  like, this is my first short film in like 4 years.
• 1:44:45
  Yeah, like, aside from like tiny little things that I'd done just
• 1:44:48
  as a bit of fun in like an afternoon.
• 1:44:50
  There's like a little sketch or something.
• 1:44:53
  That was the first time in four years since I did Tangy Man with
• 1:44:56
  Dan in 2019 that I'd, like actually made a short film.
• 1:45:02
  You know, made like there's a script.
• 1:45:04
  There's acts as we're doing, You know, we're like we're doing
• 1:45:08
  rehearsals. We're blocking it with.
• 1:45:11
  It's a collaborative thing. It's it's a back and forth.
• 1:45:15
  So we did that and that was really amazing.
• 1:45:18
  And I can that kind of really nice that like Oh yeah, This is
• 1:45:20
  why I do what I do. This is what I enjoy the most
• 1:45:23
  about it sounds great. So we did that and then we did
• 1:45:27
  Accent and then we did Choc Chips and then I also did, you
• 1:45:32
  know in between those. I did, Oh, no, Guano with you
• 1:45:34
  and Dan. And then Choc Chips is still
• 1:45:41
  kind of, you know, being edited. I'm so I'm sort of nearing the
• 1:45:45
  end of editing at that, you know, which is good.
• 1:45:47
  Then I did another film with Emma and then now I'm about to
• 1:45:54
  start this, this new one, you know, Vanishing Cabinet with
• 1:45:57
  with yourself and a great and a great team.
• 1:46:01
  And so that's nice. Even though there's been a few
• 1:46:04
  gaps here and there, you know, generally over the last year
• 1:46:08
  there's kind of always been a creative fun projects I'm
• 1:46:12
  working on on the side in some capacity and that's really nice
• 1:46:14
  because I've not had that for so long.
• 1:46:16
  And so now, like I said, hopefully with this, with this
• 1:46:19
  new job that will allow more time, I'm just more like mental
• 1:46:26
  energy to to be spent on that and stuff like that.
• 1:46:30
  We've kind of already established what it's like to
• 1:46:32
  work with friends. I was just curious because you
• 1:46:34
  did that short film of your partner Emma and feels weird.
• 1:46:38
  So. I know Emma.
• 1:46:39
  I know Emma. So formal.
• 1:46:43
  Yeah. First time working together.
• 1:46:49
  Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we've like I did.
• 1:46:53
  AI made like a very short sketch with her and another friend a
• 1:46:59
  few years ago as part of AI was teaching a workshop for some
• 1:47:02
  kids and I used to like demonstrate like basic camera
• 1:47:05
  angle. And so we made like a we shot
• 1:47:08
  something in our kitchen for half an hour.
• 1:47:10
  So like other than that, yeah, like first proper time like
• 1:47:14
  actually working together with, you know other people on set and
• 1:47:18
  like in a very, like she's the director, well, she's also
• 1:47:21
  acting in it. So that was interesting.
• 1:47:23
  So like, you know, I was taking her direction, but also I was
• 1:47:28
  directing her as an actor with other people around and you
• 1:47:33
  know, with other elements and other things happening.
• 1:47:37
  So that was that was interesting.
• 1:47:39
  What's it like working with with your partner?
• 1:47:41
  Like is? Is the dynamic different?
• 1:47:43
  Is it just the same as always? Like, does that differ for you
• 1:47:46
  in any way? No, I think I mean a lot.
• 1:47:49
  It was. It was great.
• 1:47:50
  It was really good fun. I think.
• 1:47:53
  I think it was. I think the only difficult thing
• 1:47:57
  about it was that it's a film that she'd written as well.
• 1:48:01
  And I knew I really, like, meant a lot to her.
• 1:48:05
  So there was a there was some pressure of like, I didn't want.
• 1:48:07
  I wanted to make sure I was getting it right and make sure
• 1:48:11
  everything I was getting was kind of what she'd imagined.
• 1:48:13
  I mean, no film is ever going to like the finished product is
• 1:48:18
  never going to be exactly as you imagined it because that's not
• 1:48:21
  how things work and things always change and and you adapt
• 1:48:24
  things. But like, I wanted to, you know,
• 1:48:28
  do the best job I could and get, like, as close to what she was
• 1:48:32
  wanting. So I think that was the only
• 1:48:34
  challenges that I because I knew it meant a lot to her.
• 1:48:37
  And obviously, I've got a personal stake in it because,
• 1:48:40
  you know, we've been together for 3 1/2 years.
• 1:48:44
  OK Yeah. So I.
• 1:48:46
  So I really care about, you know, her well-being and like,
• 1:48:49
  if she's happy with it. So.
• 1:48:51
  So yeah, I think there's that there's that added element but
• 1:48:57
  other, but also, you know, other than that it was.
• 1:48:59
  It was it was great. It was.
• 1:49:01
  So it was nice to be able to, you know, the person I'm kind of
• 1:49:05
  directing and also taking direction off is I can kind of
• 1:49:10
  piss about and like, you know, taking the kiosk and we can joke
• 1:49:13
  around. Yeah, it was an interesting mix
• 1:49:19
  of kind of being professional because there's other people
• 1:49:22
  here and, you know, you're, you sort of have, everyone has like
• 1:49:26
  a different version of themselves that they tailor to,
• 1:49:31
  you know, depend on who you're hanging out with.
• 1:49:32
  Like, I wouldn't act the same way around my grandparents that
• 1:49:35
  I would talk to you right now. I wouldn't act the same way, you
• 1:49:39
  know, the idea when it's just me and Emma as I would with like my
• 1:49:44
  mates, you know. So it was interesting kind of
• 1:49:48
  there's like a professional version of myself that I kind of
• 1:49:55
  had to, like, not had to, like. I just naturally kind of slip
• 1:49:58
  into that when I'm like on set. But then also because it's like
• 1:50:03
  it's other people, everyone, basically everyone bar one
• 1:50:06
  person who was on that film, I kind of knew already.
• 1:50:10
  So I, you know, I kind of knew how to be around them.
• 1:50:16
  So there's it's it's like professionalism, but like
• 1:50:19
  everyone's a bit more chilled out, a bit more relaxed.
• 1:50:23
  Did you shoot at your place? Yeah, we shot it in our bedroom
• 1:50:28
  and then just in the like the hallway and the stairs, so.
• 1:50:31
  Was that weird in in your own? Because I remember Emma
• 1:50:34
  explaining it to me because I was like, hey, I'd love to be a
• 1:50:37
  part of this. And she was like, oh, I think
• 1:50:38
  it's, it's full now, right? And and then she explained,
• 1:50:40
  like, how many people were on it.
• 1:50:42
  And I was thinking in my head, I was like, that's good.
• 1:50:44
  It's very that's going to be tight.
• 1:50:46
  Like, it's like, yeah, like, what was that like?
• 1:50:51
  I think the only thing weird thing was just having like
• 1:50:55
  everyone just in our bedroom, just like this is we're we're
• 1:51:00
  asleep at night, but we're filming here.
• 1:51:01
  I mean, we dressed it and we like, move furniture around.
• 1:51:05
  And we made it look actually one of one of the one of the people
• 1:51:10
  there, this girl who was being like the gaffer, she stepped in,
• 1:51:14
  she was like, this looks like this looks like an IKEA
• 1:51:17
  showroom. And I was like, oh, thanks,
• 1:51:20
  Twin. Is this just how your bedroom is
• 1:51:21
  all the time? I was like, no, absolutely not.
• 1:51:23
  Like we've made this look as nice as it possibly can.
• 1:51:26
  She was like, it looks great. You should keep it like this.
• 1:51:30
  So that was a that was like, you know, you're always like where
• 1:51:33
  if you if you're having guests around.
• 1:51:34
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:36
  Tidy up and you make it no. And you make it look as nice as
• 1:51:39
  you can. So that was like an extra lot of
• 1:51:41
  blacks. It's like you're coming into
• 1:51:42
  like lunch, my house with my bedroom, like a very kind of
• 1:51:45
  personal, you know, room. This is on camera as well.
• 1:51:50
  So it's like this is, this is always how it looks.
• 1:51:53
  What do you mean always this? Fantastic.
• 1:51:59
  So yeah, that was, that was interesting.
• 1:52:00
  I think it was just, you know, because your bedroom is where
• 1:52:02
  you kind of, it's where you go to like shut off and like be
• 1:52:07
  yourself not, you know, it, You know, it's where you kind of, I
• 1:52:12
  guess your most vulnerable because it's where you, it's
• 1:52:14
  where you go to sleep. It's where you do other things,
• 1:52:18
  You know, it's where you chill, you know, it's, it's where you
• 1:52:21
  chill out. So immediately it's like your
• 1:52:24
  safe space. So at least it is for me, you
• 1:52:26
  know, So, so suddenly having like a crew of people now was a
• 1:52:30
  bit like, oh, this is, this is a bit weird.
• 1:52:32
  Like we're not on on a set of a bedroom.
• 1:52:34
  We're like like when we finish tonight and when everyone's
• 1:52:37
  gone, I'm going to go and sleep in this bed.
• 1:52:39
  That's what I meant. Like I wondered if it was in any
• 1:52:41
  way different. Clearly it is a little bit
• 1:52:43
  different, but then I suppose maybe.
• 1:52:46
  But then again, I think there's just, you know, I can kind of
• 1:52:50
  go, OK, yeah, that's a bit weird.
• 1:52:52
  But also, you know, we're here to do a job and like, that's
• 1:52:57
  what we're here for. So we're going to do this.
• 1:53:00
  And I think it did help that we, like, dressed it and made it
• 1:53:04
  look a bit different. So it wasn't literally like, I'd
• 1:53:07
  just open the door and go, like, right, cool, We're going to film
• 1:53:09
  in here. It's like we changed things
• 1:53:12
  around and we'd we made it look like like super nice and
• 1:53:18
  visually, you know, appealing and so, yeah.
• 1:53:22
  And then and then yeah, just the the logistical constraints like
• 1:53:26
  just working, you know, like you're in a confined space.
• 1:53:29
  I mean, it's a big bedroom, but still it's like you're working
• 1:53:32
  in, you know, a limited amount of space.
• 1:53:35
  And so just having a lot of people like light stands and
• 1:53:39
  things around, it's just that's. What I was thinking like it must
• 1:53:42
  be such a tight you've got to be really careful with like how you
• 1:53:46
  kind of put. That yeah, there was there was
• 1:53:48
  definitely limits to like what shots we could get and and like
• 1:53:54
  how we had to do certain things. Especially because I I like, I
• 1:53:58
  got a lot of equipment as well. I I got really lucky and hired a
• 1:54:02
  load of quite fancy lighting kit which you know like I said
• 1:54:07
  before I never really I get to do.
• 1:54:10
  So that was really great. But suddenly I had like
• 1:54:12
  thousands of pounds worth of kit which isn't mine.
• 1:54:14
  So a like that's scary because I'm like I've got to really make
• 1:54:18
  I can't just let my own stuff. I'm like chucking it over, you
• 1:54:20
  know like chucking it around like bashing it if I hit it on
• 1:54:24
  the wall doesn't really matter. There's other stuff in the
• 1:54:27
  middle. I'm like I've got to be super,
• 1:54:29
  super careful because this isn't mine.
• 1:54:30
  It's really expensive, but also like it's just bigger equipment.
• 1:54:36
  It's bulkier. It gets in the way.
• 1:54:38
  So in the middle there's just like there's less room to move
• 1:54:40
  about. There's it's more cramps and it
• 1:54:45
  and it and because we were shooting, it's a night scene,
• 1:54:49
  but we're shooting completely in the day.
• 1:54:51
  So we had to like black out all the windows.
• 1:54:54
  After two days of like being in this room for like most of the
• 1:55:00
  day. It kind of felt quite
• 1:55:01
  claustrophobic. Like after we feel like I'd want
• 1:55:03
  to get outside like this is you know kind of start going a bit
• 1:55:09
  stir crazy. So so yeah, but it was it was
• 1:55:11
  good. It was fun and and so far the
• 1:55:14
  film's looking really good. Good stuff.
• 1:55:17
  You mentioned earlier about doing extras work and you sort
• 1:55:21
  of giggled. I think we all have stories, so
• 1:55:24
  Giuseppe, tell me some fun extra stories.
• 1:55:31
  I mean. I mean, sorry, but your face
• 1:55:34
  just says it all right? There, you're that.
• 1:55:38
  I mean we'll, you know, you know what this is like.
• 1:55:40
  Like I watched, like I watched the podcaster Dan like you had
• 1:55:44
  you had a little, you know, you had a good little giggle about
• 1:55:47
  that. Like it's it's just it's such a
• 1:55:52
  mixed bag, isn't it? Because on the one hand you can
• 1:55:54
  have some really, really fun, unique experiences on those
• 1:55:58
  jobs. But on the other hand and they
• 1:56:02
  can just be a pain in the arse and you feel like you feel like
• 1:56:05
  no one gives a shit about you. Like there's there's plenty of
• 1:56:10
  times where you know I I'm just like sitting there being on set.
• 1:56:14
  You're you know you're cold. You've been there for like 6
• 1:56:17
  hours and you've not done anything and you're just like
• 1:56:19
  have we been forgotten about like to the crew, they like I
• 1:56:24
  can hear them filming next room but they actually know that
• 1:56:27
  we're here. Like I did one.
• 1:56:30
  I think that's the last one I did last year in like October
• 1:56:36
  and it was in this like old converted like mill in I don't
• 1:56:44
  know somewhere upgrade to Manchester and it's been
• 1:56:48
  converted into this like this event space I think.
• 1:56:51
  And they like use one of the rooms as like a gym.
• 1:56:55
  But it's still, it's still like an old mill.
• 1:56:56
  It's it's red brick. It's it's not heated.
• 1:56:59
  It's quite cold and we were up in this like holding room
• 1:57:05
  upstairs. There's massive, massive space
• 1:57:08
  and it was just, it was just freezing and there was no
• 1:57:12
  chairs. I think I remember you telling
• 1:57:15
  me about this one. Yeah.
• 1:57:16
  In the morning I was like, oh, this sucks.
• 1:57:19
  I think. I did some videos like put them
• 1:57:21
  on Instagram, like I was like start doing some stories.
• 1:57:24
  So I was like, this is shit. There was we, yeah.
• 1:57:27
  There was no chairs. There were some like yoga mats
• 1:57:33
  like rolled up and stuff and like, yeah and like cushion like
• 1:57:36
  in a corner. But when we got put in there in
• 1:57:38
  the morning, the the AD was like sit wherever you want.
• 1:57:41
  By the way, don't touch any of that stuff because that's all
• 1:57:43
  like that's part of like that's not, that's part of the set.
• 1:57:46
  It's dress like that's not always there.
• 1:57:48
  Like we've put that there for a scene we're doing later.
• 1:57:50
  So you can't touch any of that. So basically just when coming to
• 1:57:54
  this massive cold warehouse sits on the floor and just wait until
• 1:58:01
  you're called, you know, basically.
• 1:58:03
  And I think it was 7 hours we were in there before we were
• 1:58:07
  used was this. For a big production?
• 1:58:10
  Or is this just like? It was some.
• 1:58:12
  Short film or something. It was BBCI think.
• 1:58:16
  It was either BBC or Channel Four I think.
• 1:58:22
  That's outrageous that they. And like, I mean after like an
• 1:58:25
  hour or so someone, one of the other people was like, fuck it,
• 1:58:28
  I don't care if it's if it's their like, set, they can they
• 1:58:31
  can dress it again, go out of the cushions and you know,
• 1:58:34
  stuff. So like when I'm just going to
• 1:58:35
  sit on a cold floor, Like if you don't even have the decency to
• 1:58:40
  give us chairs. Like it's not asking much, just
• 1:58:43
  get some foldable chairs. Yeah, I, I, I this is what I
• 1:58:47
  expect if you're going to do like, bare minimum, right?
• 1:58:51
  I show up. There's a holding space for us
• 1:58:54
  chairs. Maybe some coffee?
• 1:58:58
  No, definitely coffee and then light food.
• 1:59:03
  Doesn't have to be anything fancy, Could just be even be
• 1:59:05
  some snacks because. I have like a table with like
• 1:59:08
  some refreshments and like a bowl of some fruit, some packets
• 1:59:12
  of crisps and chocolate. Perfect.
• 1:59:15
  Perfect. Yeah, it's and and it's and.
• 1:59:17
  It's the bare minimum, isn't it? You wouldn't think that's
• 1:59:19
  difficult, but people just don't a lot of time like on that one.
• 1:59:23
  What did this, the thing that annoys me so much, disappears.
• 1:59:25
  Like, I see productions all the time.
• 1:59:28
  And like, I'll give you, I'll give you a good example, right.
• 1:59:30
  It's a big feature film, right? They're they're advertising to
• 1:59:34
  pay like the first. Not name.
• 1:59:36
  Say it by name then. Yeah, I won't, don't worry.
• 1:59:39
  But it was just some random throwaway thing.
• 1:59:41
  It was like a feature film. First AD is getting paid like
• 1:59:45
  1000 and they're advertising that.
• 1:59:47
  And then all the rest of the roles, unpaid, unpaid, nothing.
• 1:59:52
  And I'm like, I'm sorry, but if you've got a budget to pay all
• 1:59:57
  of these things, but you can't be asked to pay this.
• 1:59:59
  I don't want to. I'm sorry, but I don't want to
• 2:00:01
  hear, oh, we don't have the budget for this, but we're just
• 2:00:04
  doing this, like, yeah. Like, the only time I think
• 2:00:07
  that's acceptable is if no one's getting paid and this is a pure
• 2:00:10
  passion project and you've said that.
• 2:00:13
  Or you know you're a bunch of students and you've got nothing
• 2:00:16
  to offer. But you know, even students a
• 2:00:18
  lot of the time will at least offer like some refreshments.
• 2:00:22
  Like at times I've heard like, oh, sorry, we don't have
• 2:00:24
  anything to give you because we don't have the budget.
• 2:00:27
  Like what? So you can't afford.
• 2:00:29
  I mean, fuck me, I could do a budget £20 for like what, 1010
• 2:00:34
  extras, right? And it will have like coffee and
• 2:00:37
  biscuits and a few bits for the day that that's that's plenty.
• 2:00:42
  More £3040. You know, eat like and if around
• 2:00:46
  like. Even if it's a tiny little
• 2:00:48
  student production or like a short fill, you know have a whip
• 2:00:51
  around fibre from each person involved in the crew that funds
• 2:00:55
  that. You know, fibre is not hot.
• 2:00:57
  It's not a lot, it's just. Like like BBC or Channel 4 or
• 2:01:01
  whoever like and that one that that I was just talking about.
• 2:01:04
  Like they their refreshments table which wasn't snacks with
• 2:01:09
  only drinks, tea and coffee was outside, but you had to go
• 2:01:15
  through the room they were shooting in order to get to
• 2:01:18
  that. Like there wasn't another way
• 2:01:19
  around. So like we could go and access
• 2:01:23
  that, but only like only when they called cut.
• 2:01:27
  So, like, we'd keep, like, I'm going to go get a coffee going
• 2:01:30
  down the stairs and suddenly there's an idea like, like,
• 2:01:33
  can't come down. We're shooting like, you can't
• 2:01:34
  go through. I'm like, well, like, that's
• 2:01:38
  shit. That's that's what pisses me off
• 2:01:41
  because and I said this on the show with that with Dan but I
• 2:01:44
  just want to rant again like you can't do your production without
• 2:01:49
  extras and with other crew like everyone is equal, everyone has.
• 2:01:53
  I don't care what people say, like, Oh, well, you're not paid
• 2:01:56
  the same. Well, look, you tried doing a
• 2:01:58
  film or ATV show in a space where you're supposed to have
• 2:02:02
  people and you don't have those people now.
• 2:02:04
  Yeah, and you try tell me that that doesn't look weird or out
• 2:02:07
  of place or whatever, right? You need those people.
• 2:02:10
  And like the extras are so important to a lot of
• 2:02:14
  productions. And and like I know that like
• 2:02:18
  I'm aware that the extras, you know, like you're like yes, you
• 2:02:24
  know they're like they're they're they're not as important
• 2:02:27
  in some ways as like you know you're not like I don't go on an
• 2:02:30
  next job and expect to be treated the same as like the
• 2:02:33
  actors. Like I don't like, I know why
• 2:02:34
  I'm there. I'm there to do a job Like I'm
• 2:02:36
  there to fulfil a service you know, and that's fine.
• 2:02:40
  I'm not expecting loads. But also, you know, you can't
• 2:02:44
  make a scene work without extras in a lot of cases.
• 2:02:47
  And if all the extra suddenly walks out, like I know for a
• 2:02:51
  fact that Dan has walked out on a job form, not, I don't know
• 2:02:55
  which one, but I remember him telling me that story when he
• 2:02:57
  was just like, right, I'm off see.
• 2:02:59
  And they were like, they said like, no, like you're not
• 2:03:01
  allowed. And he went.
• 2:03:02
  Why? Like, well, they were he because
• 2:03:05
  he told it on the show, like. Oh, did he?
• 2:03:07
  Oh, right. They He hadn't signed anything.
• 2:03:10
  There was nothing. He.
• 2:03:10
  Could do. He hadn't signed anything.
• 2:03:12
  I'm off. Yeah, what can you do?
• 2:03:14
  But to be to be honest, even if you have signed something, these
• 2:03:18
  are basic rights. If I if I was on a production
• 2:03:21
  and I wasn't getting like, fuck it, you can charge me afterwards
• 2:03:25
  or something, I don't care. You're not getting to treat me
• 2:03:27
  like crap just because what I'm low on the pecking order?
• 2:03:30
  Like fuck you no treat people decently.
• 2:03:34
  Again, just just like, just be nice.
• 2:03:36
  It it's not hard and it goes a long way.
• 2:03:39
  Just be a nice person. Absolutely.
• 2:03:42
  Yeah, I don't know. A lot of, a lot of production is
• 2:03:45
  somehow get it wrong and can't do it.
• 2:03:48
  I mean, I've been on some nice extra jobs, you know, I've been
• 2:03:50
  on some of that really fun, you know, I was, I was on that.
• 2:03:54
  I was on a gentleman in Moscow last year, which, you know, was
• 2:04:03
  was it was quite fun. It was, you know, it's 1920s
• 2:04:06
  Russia. It's set.
• 2:04:07
  So you're in some interesting costumes and, you know, like one
• 2:04:11
  day I was playing a dead body and in like the middle of Heaton
• 2:04:17
  Park, they dunk this like big hole for like a mass grave.
• 2:04:22
  And we just had to lie in it for the whole day and like get
• 2:04:25
  covered in fake snow and just and just act dead.
• 2:04:28
  And it was just, it was just, it was bizarre.
• 2:04:30
  Like we were there. It was me and like four other,
• 2:04:33
  like dead bodies lying on top of, like, actual fake corpses,
• 2:04:38
  like rubber dummies and stuff. They dress like we're close to
• 2:04:41
  the camera, so they've got to have us on top, look real.
• 2:04:44
  And in the middle of us is like one of the actors who's like
• 2:04:48
  lying there or like walking around.
• 2:04:50
  I can't remember. And we're all having a laugh
• 2:04:52
  because she was like, this is weird, isn't it?
• 2:04:53
  We're all like, yeah, this is bizarre, but you know, it's just
• 2:04:58
  it's like stuff like that is fun because you have a laugh with
• 2:05:02
  the people. Even the crew were laughing and
• 2:05:04
  there was a bit of a there was like this camaraderie.
• 2:05:06
  You know, everyone's kind of like in it together.
• 2:05:10
  Everyone's making this thing and and yeah, it's it's still fun.
• 2:05:15
  You know, you're still having a good time even though you're
• 2:05:17
  there for, you know, you're a small cog in the machine, you're
• 2:05:21
  there to fill part of the bigger picture and that's fine.
• 2:05:24
  But like, it's still fun and that's, that's, and that's the
• 2:05:28
  main thing. So when it's like that, it's
• 2:05:30
  great, but unfortunately extra work a lot of the time isn't.
• 2:05:36
  Couple of final questions for you to round off today's show.
• 2:05:40
  What's the biggest mistake that you've made that you learned a
• 2:05:43
  valuable life lesson from? Oh, I would say it's definitely
• 2:05:57
  been a couple of times in my professional life where I've
• 2:05:59
  like under budgeted and like not charge someone properly for the
• 2:06:06
  amount of work that I've been doing.
• 2:06:09
  And then I've been like, I've shot myself in the foot
• 2:06:16
  basically because then I've ended up doing way more work
• 2:06:22
  than I thought I would be doing. But like, it's my own mistake.
• 2:06:26
  So I'm like, well, I I'm just going to have to do it.
• 2:06:29
  I'm just going to have to bite the bullet.
• 2:06:30
  And you know, I can't, I can't contact the client and go, oh,
• 2:06:34
  you know what? I didn't.
• 2:06:36
  It's to take this long. I should have charged you an
• 2:06:38
  extra 500. Can you pay that please?
• 2:06:40
  Because they're going to be like, well, no.
• 2:06:42
  What's? Let me ask you this, What
• 2:06:44
  stopped you from charging like an extra daily rate?
• 2:06:47
  Something like that. Like obviously you charge a flat
• 2:06:49
  fixed fee, but let's say well. I charge, I charge a date.
• 2:06:54
  I charge a daily rate based on how many dates, time based on
• 2:06:57
  how many days or how much time I think it's going to take to
• 2:06:59
  create something. OK, it's it's never just like a
• 2:07:02
  flat rate. It's never like, oh this will
• 2:07:05
  cost you £500 or this will cost you 1000.
• 2:07:08
  It's always like, it's always taking time.
• 2:07:12
  It it basically, it just always comes down to time.
• 2:07:14
  It's like how much time do I think it's it's going to take to
• 2:07:17
  do this And I like set my prices at like, you know, there's like
• 2:07:25
  a base level. I remember looking up online
• 2:07:27
  when I started. There's like a base, there's
• 2:07:29
  kind of basic prizes that people start at in different areas.
• 2:07:33
  And so you know, I kind of set myself like not at the low end
• 2:07:38
  but also not at the Super high end, so still being competitive.
• 2:07:45
  So, so yeah, that's that's that's how I've, that's how I've
• 2:07:48
  always pride myself. So it's just, you know, it's a
• 2:07:52
  lot of, a lot of it is just trial and error.
• 2:07:56
  So like experiences like that, you know, just going well
• 2:08:00
  because someone will come to you with an idea and you go, OK,
• 2:08:02
  well you know, my experience with my, you know, knowledge, I
• 2:08:05
  think that's going to take X amount of time which is going to
• 2:08:07
  cost X amount of money. And then I I've just, there's
• 2:08:11
  just been a few occasions where I've got it wrong.
• 2:08:14
  But it's already been agreed. You know, we're half into the
• 2:08:16
  process. So I've just had to go, you
• 2:08:20
  know, it's my own fault. No, it's a good.
• 2:08:22
  It's a good thing to learn for I I was one of the things I
• 2:08:25
  certainly learned from when I started freelancing initially in
• 2:08:29
  marketing and then later on in in acting, voice acting like and
• 2:08:33
  even to this day like I have to constantly be tweaking it and
• 2:08:37
  working on it and figuring it out.
• 2:08:38
  And it's this one of those things you have to kind of it's
• 2:08:43
  trial and error that's all of this.
• 2:08:45
  Yeah, I think a lot of things are trial and error as well.
• 2:08:47
  There's definitely other things that like, you know, I've I've
• 2:08:50
  messed up on either. I don't know.
• 2:08:54
  I think of an example right now, but like there's definitely been
• 2:08:57
  times where I've, you know maybe so I get something to sworn on
• 2:09:02
  time and I've not because it's taken longer.
• 2:09:04
  Or like I've said that we could do something and then when it's
• 2:09:08
  come to the dev and actually we don't have the equipment to do
• 2:09:10
  that. We don't have the time to do
• 2:09:11
  that. And it's just a lot of it's just
• 2:09:14
  trial and error because it's all you're just doing yourself.
• 2:09:17
  You're making it. You know you're making it.
• 2:09:21
  You know, you're not like working with a massive company
• 2:09:26
  and you're like a part of it. In the work that I've been
• 2:09:29
  doing, largely, with a few exceptions, it's like all coming
• 2:09:33
  from me and from my business partner.
• 2:09:35
  So it's just like it's just us. So we've kind of just got to do
• 2:09:39
  what we think's best, and lots on it works, but sometimes it
• 2:09:42
  doesn't. What's the best advice you've
• 2:09:46
  ever received? Oh.
• 2:09:58
  I think if something doesn't work, you know, try again and
• 2:10:06
  keep trying. At some point it'll work.
• 2:10:08
  You'll figure it out. Actually, that and just like
• 2:10:15
  learning from mistakes. I run my college teachers.
• 2:10:19
  You know, when I did the film course, just saying like you're
• 2:10:21
  going to make loads of mistakes, but that's just how you learn.
• 2:10:24
  That's part of it. You know, again, like I've just
• 2:10:27
  talked about if it's like with dealing with clients and and
• 2:10:29
  money or if it's just like you think this shots going to be
• 2:10:33
  look really cool and you get to edit and you go, oh, that looks
• 2:10:36
  like shit, You know, you just you've messed up the focus or
• 2:10:40
  there wasn't enough light or you're just too close, you know,
• 2:10:44
  and it doesn't work for the scene.
• 2:10:45
  You should have been further out.
• 2:10:47
  You just learn from your mistakes.
• 2:10:51
  And yeah, just get things right eventually.
• 2:10:55
  Oh, and and don't and don't do don't do a PowerPoint.
• 2:11:02
  Remember my college teacher saying death by PowerPoint?
• 2:11:07
  No one wants to see it. What's wrong with?
• 2:11:11
  What's wrong with PowerPoint? But presentations?
• 2:11:14
  Man. So.
• 2:11:14
  PowerPoint is fine. Death by PowerPoint is when you
• 2:11:20
  have things written on your PowerPoint and you stand there
• 2:11:23
  in front of the PowerPoint and you read out exactly what's on
• 2:11:26
  screen. I remember our college teacher
• 2:11:29
  like on the first day of the course saying like if you do
• 2:11:33
  this I will just like turn it off like.
• 2:11:37
  But that's how every person I've ever met ever does a PowerPoint.
• 2:11:41
  Exactly. And it's the worst thing in the
• 2:11:43
  world, dude. I I can beat that.
• 2:11:47
  When I was at uni there was a course that I did in like second
• 2:11:51
  year. It was like a foundation course
• 2:11:53
  before you go and do your like special lessons.
• 2:11:56
  And we clocked pretty quickly that basically because a lot of
• 2:12:00
  the courses you'd have to like buy a book for the course and
• 2:12:03
  it's astronomically priced and they tell you like if you don't
• 2:12:06
  buy the book, we'll fail you and we we use it in the seminars.
• 2:12:11
  So you end up buying it and you know it's a con.
• 2:12:14
  And obviously, like, the person running the course wrote the
• 2:12:16
  book. So guys, don't be thinking that
• 2:12:19
  uni isn't a scam, it's a scam. They're just trying to get you
• 2:12:22
  to buy their books. But anyway, we go to this
• 2:12:26
  particular Less lecture series and we're clocked in the first
• 2:12:31
  like lesson or two. The not only was this woman
• 2:12:36
  reading off the PowerPoints, but she was also reading directly
• 2:12:41
  out of her book. So essentially every lecture was
• 2:12:45
  one like read along session. Like remember like when you're
• 2:12:47
  in English class as a kid and you just like read along.
• 2:12:50
  It was. It was that and I'll say and
• 2:12:53
  she'd spent the time writing all of the text on the PowerPoints
• 2:12:57
  as well. So which made the PowerPoint
• 2:13:00
  pointless. Actually the PowerPoint was
• 2:13:02
  pointless because you could have just.
• 2:13:04
  Going a lot. And also just on the side though
• 2:13:06
  as well, and if you're at uni now, what are you doing sitting
• 2:13:11
  writing notes about what's on the PowerPoint?
• 2:13:14
  You're not paying attention if you're just writing along to
• 2:13:16
  what's been written. Like the whole point of note
• 2:13:18
  taking is you write things that you're going to explore later,
• 2:13:21
  like important points, things that stand out, you know,
• 2:13:24
  because all that information you can get from somewhere else.
• 2:13:27
  Also, recorders are your friend. Just saying.
• 2:13:31
  Also that that bad teaching is to, you know, because you're,
• 2:13:37
  you know, you're paying for someone to read out from a book
• 2:13:41
  that is in front of you. So like like people aren't going
• 2:13:45
  to retain that information just by being having someone read it
• 2:13:49
  aloud. It's like what?
• 2:13:50
  I mean that by PowerPoint, people aren't going to retain
• 2:13:52
  that information because it's we're reading what we can
• 2:13:55
  already see. So it's nothing new.
• 2:13:57
  So it's it's boring. All right.
• 2:14:00
  You ready for the big one? Big one, go for it.
• 2:14:03
  It's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far.
• 2:14:10
  To be prepared for podcast questions.
• 2:14:15
  You were prepared. Mostly.
• 2:14:19
  No, you smashed it. Biggest life lesson like it's
• 2:14:26
  probably a boring answer but again just going back to like
• 2:14:29
  you know things go wrong and it's OK you know I and that and
• 2:14:36
  all and also like you know we're always learning I think.
• 2:14:40
  I think everyone is always learning and I don't.
• 2:14:47
  I think it's, I think it's a bad sign when someone says that
• 2:14:51
  they've like learn everything they can about something, you
• 2:14:54
  know? Oh no, no, I know.
• 2:14:55
  I know everything about that. Like that's it.
• 2:14:57
  Like I don't need to. Like there's nothing else to
• 2:15:00
  learn. Like there's always something
• 2:15:01
  else to learn. There's always more to get from
• 2:15:03
  something, whether it's a specific thing like like film
• 2:15:09
  making or acting or uni lectures, you know, teaching or
• 2:15:16
  just like life, You know, to get more deep.
• 2:15:20
  Like like my mum always says that, you know, she still is
• 2:15:23
  figuring it out. She's 56, she's still, you know,
• 2:15:26
  she still hasn't got it sorted because I don't think anyone
• 2:15:29
  ever has. Everyone still just like making
• 2:15:30
  it up as they go along to some extent.
• 2:15:32
  And everyone's learning new things.
• 2:15:38
  So yeah, I think, I think when you're younger and growing up,
• 2:15:43
  there's an expectation that, you know, oh, when I'm an adult,
• 2:15:46
  I'll, I'll, I'll know it, I'll know it all well, oh, that's
• 2:15:50
  that. That's when things will click
• 2:15:51
  and you become an adult. And then you after a few years
• 2:15:54
  you're like maybe this is just what it's like, maybe I like, I
• 2:15:59
  don't have it all figured out and and I don't think anyone
• 2:16:02
  ever does. I think, I think you're just
• 2:16:04
  always learning and you're always, there's always going to
• 2:16:06
  be little challenges here and there and that's just that's
• 2:16:09
  just part of life and part of especially part of this
• 2:16:13
  industry. Completely agree.
• 2:16:15
  And I think the biggest thing you can learn if you're young,
• 2:16:19
  listening to this, watching this, and you're worried scare
• 2:16:22
  for the future, most important thing I could say with regards
• 2:16:26
  to that is trust yourself, trust the process and most
• 2:16:31
  importantly, know that you will get through it and that you'll
• 2:16:34
  figure out a way. Because like Giuseppe said, we
• 2:16:37
  are always figuring it out, wondering.
• 2:16:41
  A lot of the time when I go into a new situation and I don't know
• 2:16:44
  what's going to happen, how it's going to go, I just kind of go
• 2:16:46
  fuck it. It'll be all right.
• 2:16:49
  I'll figure it out. I went through this.
• 2:16:50
  This was way worse. You know, like that's kind of
• 2:16:53
  like how I go into things. And you know, sometimes it's a
• 2:16:56
  shit show and you learn something from it, or sometimes
• 2:16:58
  it's you're surprised and it goes really smoothly.
• 2:17:01
  Or, you know, there's always something a lesson, an
• 2:17:04
  experience, whatever. You know, definitely, definitely
• 2:17:08
  and always, always say yes to something and then figure out
• 2:17:13
  how you're going to do it. Don't turn down an opportunity
• 2:17:16
  because I mean with with the exceptions.
• 2:17:19
  Yeah, because I heard someone did that about flying.
• 2:17:21
  And I'm like, no, you still need to learn to be a pilot like
• 2:17:24
  that. Seems pretty important.
• 2:17:25
  I think use your common sense. If someone's like you know this
• 2:17:28
  role involves horse riding, you know you're going to charge into
• 2:17:32
  a battle on a horse. Have you got experienced horse
• 2:17:34
  riding? I don't say yes if you haven't,
• 2:17:36
  but like, no. There's been so many things
• 2:17:39
  where I've like I've taken a, I've taken a role or applied
• 2:17:43
  something, you know, because it's like, do you have
• 2:17:45
  experience in this thing or do you have experience using this
• 2:17:47
  camera or, you know, like we want someone who's got producing
• 2:17:51
  experience. You know, I've not really, but
• 2:17:53
  I've got there's things I can take that, you know.
• 2:17:56
  So say yes, and then figure it out later.
• 2:18:01
  Final question, do you have any upcoming projects or final
• 2:18:03
  thoughts that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 2:18:07
  I don't know about final thoughts other than what I've
• 2:18:11
  already said in terms of upcoming projects.
• 2:18:13
  Yeah, got choc chips. Got release date.
• 2:18:18
  Would you star in? Not a release date yet, but it's
• 2:18:21
  definitely it's definitely soon. It's I'm in the process of doing
• 2:18:27
  all the post sound. That's the thing that's taking
• 2:18:30
  the most time. It's very tedious because I'm
• 2:18:31
  having to do a lot of Foley. You have to record crunching
• 2:18:35
  sounds. Literally recording foot steps
• 2:18:37
  and syncing them up to people's movements on screen.
• 2:18:39
  Oh, mad, OK. But yeah, that's coming along
• 2:18:43
  well. So you know the friend who
• 2:18:46
  doesn't hurt. So Short gangster crime comedy
• 2:18:51
  written by Andy Wynne and directed by me and him as well.
• 2:18:57
  That's going to be soon. Then there's Emma's film First
• 2:19:02
  for Everything, which not sure when that's going to be
• 2:19:05
  released, but again, just working on that and then
• 2:19:13
  starting this new film which you know is very much at the
• 2:19:17
  beginning of production, but very, very excited to be working
• 2:19:21
  on Vanishing Cabinet again of. Course, yeah, that'll be a lot
• 2:19:26
  of fun. Yeah, I'm really looking forward
• 2:19:29
  to that. I think it's going to be.
• 2:19:30
  Great. Anything that you're planning to
• 2:19:33
  do this year though that you're headed?
• 2:19:37
  I've got a few very vague ideas. Again, with it being January and
• 2:19:42
  with me, you know, starting a new job and and being in the
• 2:19:47
  midst of like a few different projects.
• 2:19:48
  I'm not kind of. I've not got any solid ideas
• 2:19:51
  right now, but I've got a few ideas kind of floating about.
• 2:19:57
  Things I like I want to do. I'd love to do a horror film
• 2:20:02
  again, so I really want to try. I might I might try and get
• 2:20:07
  horror film off the ground in the summer.
• 2:20:10
  Maybe see if I can do something very small but cool and get it
• 2:20:15
  released in time for Halloween. That'd be fun.
• 2:20:19
  I know I'm going to work on another film with Dan, One at
• 2:20:22
  Dan. But it's, I guess a bit of a
• 2:20:25
  horror, actually. It's a sort of psychological,
• 2:20:27
  kind of ruler thing. I know he's been wanting that
• 2:20:29
  for a while, so I think we're going to work on that this year.
• 2:20:32
  And then there's another film that I want to write, a kind of
• 2:20:37
  coming of age kind of drama set in Manchester.
• 2:20:41
  But I mean that's that's where, I mean, I haven't even written
• 2:20:44
  it yet, so that's probably very far in the future, but I
• 2:20:47
  definitely want to start writing that and then maybe that'll come
• 2:20:50
  to fruition this year. Maybe it'll take a couple of
• 2:20:52
  years, I don't know. So, yeah, there's a few things
• 2:20:56
  in the pipeline. Best of luck, man.
• 2:20:58
  It really sounds like an exciting year and thank you if
• 2:21:01
  it goes well. Thanks, I hope so.
• 2:21:03
  Well, same to you as well. Cheers man.
• 2:21:05
  I appreciate it. I wanted to say a massive thank
• 2:21:08
  you for appearing on the show. I knew it was going to be good.
• 2:21:10
  It's been brilliant. Thank you so much for all your
• 2:21:12
  time, your stories and just giving us an insight into you
• 2:21:15
  though. No, honestly, thanks for having
• 2:21:17
  me. Had a really nice time.
• 2:21:19
  And yeah, I just hope I've made sense.
• 2:21:21
  I feel like I've waffle on in a few places, but you've.
• 2:21:24
  Smashed it mate, you've absolutely smashed it.
• 2:21:27
  Thanks man. Well, yeah, it's been really
• 2:21:28
  fun. Really enjoyed it.
• 2:21:29
  Thank you and to all the listeners of the Christian Reef
• 2:21:32
  podcast, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
• 2:21:35
  If you did, make sure if you're watching on YouTube to like,
• 2:21:40
  share and subscribe. Help spread the word.
• 2:21:43
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• 2:21:45
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• 2:21:48
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• 2:21:50
  clip, or oh, I liked this, or I just want to promote my boy
• 2:21:54
  Christian because I thought he did a good podcast, then do it.
• 2:21:59
  No, it really, really helps us out.
• 2:22:01
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• 2:22:08
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• 2:22:11
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• 2:22:14
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• 2:22:17
  year now called Pod Chaser, which my friend Vilma is kind of
• 2:22:21
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• 2:22:24
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• 2:22:25
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• 2:22:28
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• 2:22:32
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• 2:22:36
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• 2:22:44
  monthly bonus content, access to my Discord community, and more.
• 2:22:49
  Thank you so much for watching and listening and I'll see you
• 2:22:52
  all in the next one.