Latest / The Wealth Cafe / How Working Moms Can Reclaim Time, Energy & Balance: Meet Courtney Cecil

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How Working Moms Can Reclaim Time, Energy & Balance: Meet Courtney Cecil · The Wealth Cafe

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Wealth Cafe.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And today we have an incredible conversation coming.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: So grab your coffee, grab your tea, grab your wine, your drink of choice, and we are going to dive in because today I am joined by Courtney Cecil.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And Courtney Cecil is a fierce advocate for making work and life sustainable.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: She spent two decades as a culture and organizational strategist in professional services and banking before launching the Working Moms Movement in 2023, which we are going to talk all about today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And through the Working Moms Movement, she helps working moms go from stretched thin and overwhelmed to in control and fully present for their careers, families, and themselves.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: We love that.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: After retiring from corporate life in 2025, Courtney expanded her company's mission to support organizations with retention and engagement strategies, particularly for caregivers and rising leaders navigating career and life transition, such an important time.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: She brings her signature program, The Life Management System, to life through speaking, retreats, workshops, coaching, and her podcast, which also has the same name, which is called The Life Management System, which we'll link below.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: She is originally from Taswell, Virginia, and she now lives in Charlotte, North Carolina, which we bonded over.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: She is a proud wife, mom of two boys, and a lifelong Virginia tech.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I always butcher it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a hokey?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a hokey.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, Caroline, you need to just sear that into your brain.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm ready.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Teach me the mascot.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Teach me everything.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then in her free time, she also pours into her friendships and is on a mission to visit 50 countries by age 50.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: How many countries are you at, Courtney?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: I hit, so I am about to turn, well, I'm 41.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right before before I turn 42, I will hit my 41st country.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing Norway and Finland this fall for uh like a little uh my my first introduction to the northern ways, which I'm really pumped about.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm going at the end of August.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll swap some exactly.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I cannot wait for you to be able to tell me all the things I need to be doing before I get there.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, perfect, perfect.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: That can be its own episode at this year.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much for coming on.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you have so much time today.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I thank you for having me.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled to dive in.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you've had quite the career journey.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important that we start there.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me how did all of this come to be?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, it starts most simply with the fact that I'm an industrial and systems engineer.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So Virginia Tech, I'm again very proud Virginia Tech Cookie.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Virginia Tech is known for its agriculture and its sciences.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I, as an engineer, it is, it's um, it was a perfect school for me.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but industrial and systems engineering is important to my story because ISEs is simply like when you distill down what it is we're trained to do, it's how do you optimize processes to make them as efficient and as effective as possible?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: How do you optimize them to get as much juice out of the squeeze as possible?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I started out doing, um I started out manufacturing, quickly moved into um to consulting, where I was applying that same type of thinking for business processes.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: But what I was quickly learning is it was like, I don't know, 15 to 20% process improvement.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the other 80% was all about how you changed the makeup of the people and the way that they work together in order to get different types of products and results out of them.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that launched me into the back half of my career, Caroline, which was all around culture transformation.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I worked for several different CEO administrations.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I then moved into a Fortune 50 bank where I led culture.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that behavior change work is the foundation for the work that I do now with moms.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and inside organizations, by the way.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got the two parallel paths.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: One is how do I help organizations, just like I did in the the culture work that I've been doing before, how do I help them serve caregivers and females at large in the interest of getting more females into leadership positions?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I'm finding is that even the women that stay in the workforce after having kids, their priorities shift somewhat differently because they don't feel like they can continue to grow in their and up the career ladder while still being present at home.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that's absolutely false, and they can, but it's because they're trying to do things the same way as they always have.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So then the B2C part of my practice is helping them essentially re-engineer their lives so they're able to optimize how they do things in ways that they're still able to be present at home.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're able to be present for their marriage and in their careers, but most especially themselves.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I find in the women that I work with is they're always putting themselves last.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they are always, always, always sacrificing working out, sleep, um, well-being, fun, uh, you know, just anything that makes you feel alive and human.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there's ways that you can do it all.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You just can't do it all in the same way you used to.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um, it is a very, very big passion of mine.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also one of those things where there's so few people who are modeling a sustainable way to do it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we as women are not going to do it the same way as like a male executive is gonna do it, right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it, it's not the same.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's so important the work you're doing because you're also then shaping the future in now they are going to be seen as leaders, not just because of their career roles and like the actual leadership, but for the way they're paving a new path.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I like to think so.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for acknowledging that.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing that I'm incredibly keen on is, you know, first of all, I'm never really going to make any money supporting women themselves.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just, it's it, the model is not scalable in that way.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I work with organizations.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I care so much about working with as many women as I can, because when I change them, I'm not just impacting their life, but I'm impacting their legacy, which is sort of what you're talking about, Caroline.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: It is the, it is the um shadow of the leader, how they show up and what they are modeling for the people that they surround themselves with, both their peers, their, you know, their friends, their colleagues, people they manage, but most notably their kids, because their kids are looking at them.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a I have boys, and I am modeling for them in ways that they you better believe they're going to expect that when they look for women later, they're gonna be looking for bad asses too.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be looking for the the mom or the or the future wife who has, who is just highly driven and capable and high achieving, but still knows how to let down her hair and have a good time.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I am most sensitive to my friends that have girls because what I want them to see is a a mom who is not burning out, who can still have fun, who can still be present and still care for herself as opposed to always putting herself last.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So ironically, I don't have girls, but it is the it is in the interest of girl moms that I'm most passionate about doing this work.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because you have an entire approach that you've now designed for this.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you first started building your life management system.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: What was the problem in your mind that you were like, ooh, I need to solve this?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where did this even begin as you then left and transitioned from a corporate role?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so well, it is it was because I was knee deep in corporate.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I still to this day work about 80 hours a week.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to shortchange how much I work.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that would be very disingenuous.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it was because I work that much, and because I still work that I'm actually about to go back to corporate when this, when this, um, when this airs Caroline, I'm going back to another Fortune 50 to lead org change uh and like behavior change for them.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I work a lot, but I also have a whole lot of fun.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But what I was finding at the time is I was having the fun and I was doing the work, but I was absolutely not taking care of myself.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a point when I'd been working 80 hours a week for I was back in consulting at this time, and um, my boss just kind of ripped me a new one because I didn't perform something that he thought I absolutely should be performing.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: But meanwhile, my baby, who was probably like seven or eight months at the time, had RSV and I did not get to hold him a single time.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So he is he is so sick that it puts most kids in the hospital.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even have 20 seconds in my mind to call a timeout and spend that time with him.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me a little bit to recover.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So getting out of that um role, I was just, I was so deep in it.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought that was the way life had to look when you had kids.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't until I got back out of, I called a timeout and was like, this consulting role is not working for me.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna give up on becoming partner.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go back into the office of CEO where I was making a big difference doing work I loved, but not in this toxic atmosphere that I'm in.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back to the office of the CEO and I'm sitting around the C-suite.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And these women that, I mean, I was not a C-suite, I just happened to be graced with um being amongst their presence every day.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they were badasses.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: They had it all together, they looked polished, they had thriving families, they had great personal lives.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what are they doing that I'm not?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do they get there with this per you know, this balance that I clearly have failed?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: If I if when that pinnacle point with my son being so sick, I can't even find 20 seconds to hold him.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I got to call a timeout, something's not working.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I essentially applied those same industrial and systems engineering principles that I learned back in school and been applying in so many of those formative years of my career to my personal life.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it was when I started doing that, when I started treating my personal life with the same type of importance and urgency and problem solving, just like I did at work, that I slowly started to re-engineer the way that I did things in ways that truly optimized around what it is I prioritize.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you use the language, Caroline, the life management system.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is um, that is my proprietary process.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: It is also the name of my podcast, as you mentioned, but that's essentially what I curated for myself.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now what I help other women do is I help them build a life management system.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I think that is the critical linchpin to actually continuing to do life as big as these high-achieving women are doing, but without actually sacrificing themselves in the way that I was.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember back in the day when I was losing myself.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was not, I was not working out, I was not eating healthy, I was, I was just not present anytime.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was constantly in my to-do list and in my own head.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um it was overdue and entirely unnecessary, but I just didn't have the tool set at the time, or I didn't believe I did, to climb out of that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that you share in your website and that I love and sticks out to me so much is it's for that moment when you know things aren't working anymore.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they keep going this way, it's not gonna work.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: What were those changes where you're where you were, you know, you mentioned you weren't working out, you weren't sleeping, like in someone's mind they're gonna be like, okay, well, I just have to get to the gym and then I have to go do this.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, what actually, what were the small changes you were actually able to start making that you solved in your brain in order to get a lot of that back?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you're right.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And most of us, most women, are not void of knowledge.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: There are tons of free podcasts like yours, like mine, like the, you know, the all the books we get our hands on, we're not void of knowledge.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're void of the ability to know how to execute that knowledge and how to actually stick with it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the biggest, the single biggest change that I made is I I flipped what I did on a head to where I started leading with what it is that I value, and then I backed up from there.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, working out.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I before this point in time, I was a six-sport varsity athlete.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was incredible, like I ran a marathon right after graduating college.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I was quite athletic and I did enjoy working out, and yet I went five years without doing a darn thing.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh recognizing that that was important to me because my health and aging gracefully was important to me, like I knew I needed to make that a priority.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: But instead of letting that always move to the back of my to-do list, I put it first.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for anybody that's familiar with Stephen Covey's seven principles of highly effective people, I actually started living the seven principles of highly effective people.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same stuff that I was teaching from a cultural transformation perspective inside organizations, but I finally actually started doing it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it I it's something that I now call the 3W framework.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And essentially it stands for what it, what I value, what I prioritize, and what I spend.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the thinking is that when you're really clear on what it is that you value, aka in this circumstance, I value my health.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I value aging gracefully.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm clear about that, I know what I need to prioritize.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I need to work out, I need to eat healthy, I need to manage my cortisol and my stress, I need to sleep.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I know those things, those major things I need to prioritize, that's how I know what to spend my resources on.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: My resources are my time, my money, and my energy.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I know at that point that it is worth me putting in the time and the energy into getting those workouts.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: It is worth me paying to make um a workout as easy on myself as possible to make sure it actually gets done.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so that was orienting myself with what it is I was I really valued and putting those first things first was I think the single most critical thing I did.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I also applied other types of thinking that um really apply to the broader life manage management system framework.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, I lowered my barrier of entry.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is like, how do I make it as easy as possible on myself to get those workouts in?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I hate, even to this day, I hate sitting down, putting on socks and like lacing up shoes.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds so silly, but if that's what's annoying me, if that's what's getting in my way, well, how do I choose a workout that doesn't require me to put on shoes?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I chose Pilates.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I started, and I mean, now I like strength train and go big.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, that's what was getting in my way.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't use that as an excuse.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do I find an alternative that allows me to not have to put on my shoes?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that was part of it, but I also just started small.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's just kind of a general life principle in creating any new habit, any new routine, any new way of doing things.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you're committed to the change, if you can just build a little bit of momentum, it's like the snowball coming that coming down and at like and turning into an a proper avalanche.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: You just got to create a little bit of momentum to get it there.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I also talk a lot about um MVPs, a minimum viable product is what we call it in corporate.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So again, like everything that I was learning in corporate, I just started applying to my my personal life.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the MVP for working out for me, like that minimum viable product, it might it didn't.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just happened to get back into it during the pandemic.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm working on, examples I'm working on with my clients right now is like, hey, maybe your MVP is that you literally only do air squats with every time that you use the microwave.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's uh like it's so still like yeah, but like think about it, you don't have to change, you probably not gonna sweat.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's time boxed to probably 30 to 90 minutes or 90 seconds.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a lot, but if you do it every single time you you start the microwave, like you're gonna get somewhere, or maybe you do push-ups then.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um it doesn't have to be a lot, but we in our heads tend to compare ourselves against what life looked like when we had less responsibilities.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's unfair.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're in a very different stage of life for me, like most people with kids.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: I spend about five extra hours a day just on the kids.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of time.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is a whole 25, 25, 20, 30, 30 hours.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, 35 hours a week.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I swear as an engineer.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: 30, but 35 hours.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like at a minimum, 35 hours a week, just keeping the kids alive, doing the basic stuff for them.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of time to lose.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of workouts, that's a lot of like time for me.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you just have to do things differently as responsibility in life grows.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your responsibility might not be kids, but perhaps it's a promotion or it's work travel or studying for an MBA on top of your workload or a special project.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are all kinds of things that could be leading to this added responsibility.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it is so critical that you continue to anchor back to your three W's, like the what you value, which influences what you prioritize, which influences what you spend.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't do that, you will always be spending your time, money, and resources for what somebody else prioritizes first instead of yourself.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Long loaded answer, Caroline, but there it's I love it though, because you know, the thing that really stuck out to me in all of that is removing the barriers to entry.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in addition to like the way that we time compare, you know, our our time resource back to who we used to be or were before, like kids, marriage, all those things, it's also monetary, right?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And just to like loop in the financial uh piece like briefly here, it's it's also like okay, like personally, like I pay to go to a gym where it's structured, where I go in, I know exactly how long the class is gonna take, I know I'm gonna get a workout, I know I'm that they're gonna push me.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that removes my barrier to entry because it's not like, oh, well, now I have to think of what workout I'm gonna do and this, that, and the other thing.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it more expensive than if I just joined some, you know, gym off the street?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: But like it's removing the barrier to entry because I'm like, I just need to show up.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just need to get my body in the door.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I then have to physically move my body through it, but like they will take care of the rest.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny because I've gone through this the past couple of weeks where I notice the difference of how I show up for everyone else throughout the day when I get in that morning workout and how my energy is different.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, have more pep in my step, my mood's better, than me being like, I'm gonna skip today.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's all right.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't wanna, I don't wanna do it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't wanna get sweaty, and I'm like, it changes everything.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and just that reminder of like take the time because it's impacting that snowball effect of the entire day.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you said two things I want to pick apart real quick.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: One is the word compare, I'll get back to you.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the second is like different types of ways you can lower the barrier to entry.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, for you, it's you don't want to have the mental load of having a plan.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: For somebody else, they might not want to have to leave their house.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's they just can't figure out how to fit in the time to leave their house.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've already shared for me, it was it was my shoes.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to sit down and lace up shoes.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for somebody else, like I used to travel a ton for work and I have a lot of hair.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It just I could not possibly create another hair washing day.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there are times of like it's so real.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's so real.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are pros and cons of if you are listening and you have thin hair, I promise there are advantages to that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that is not me.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot of it.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if that's the case, and that's a barrier to entry too.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how maybe you use like you just do steps in front of a fan?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have I have my treadmill desk downstairs, and I'm constantly walking on that treadmill desk and I got fan blowing right in my face.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or when I was traveling, maybe instead of going to a proper gym and like sweating it out like I do now with my trainer, I would just use exercise bands.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like that requires nothing other than a YouTube video at best.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I could do that in my pajamas without sweating.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there are all kinds of ways you can lower the barrier to entry for yourself in every goal you have.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is we we're just talking about um about working out, but like it the same thing could be applied to finances or or something else.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing you said, Caroline, that I think is worth calling out is you use the word compare.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think particularly with finances, that's uh like that's that much more important because it's so easy for us to compare our lives against our neighbors or our friends or our colleagues.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: They value something totally different than us.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, my neighbor gets a new car.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got two of them.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: All that they're very good friends of mine.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're constantly getting new cars.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I value.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I value Travel.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I value being able to go and see the world.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've already talked about that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Neither of them really travels a lot, if at all.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just not something that they prioritize.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that the three W's, again, it's what I value, what I prioritize, what I spend, can unlock some of that comparison trap we tend to keep ourselves in.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that can free us too.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like going back to the C-suite that I talked about that really unlocked the insight for me.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing they unlocked is the fact that I do not value looking my best all the time.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: I like people to know that I can look okay.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And for that to be, you know, for that to exist, like that brand to somewhat exist.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I use the excuse of not being able to work out because I could not, I didn't have the time to take care of this, this, all this hair.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I let that become an excuse for me instead of being like, you know what, I'll look good one maybe two days a week, or I'll look good on the really important meetings where that's very there's a lot of visibility.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: But on a day-to-day basis, why am I letting the fact that I can't get my hair sweaty be their reason that I'm not working out?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just because the C-suite women always look their finest, that that's that's them.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's not on me.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're at different stages in life, their kids are older, mine are younger.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just that can't become an excuse.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I was comparing myself to them and what is it, what it is that they valued, as opposed to thinking about myself and the fact that I don't actually value that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I want to look okay.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to look great all the time.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that if you ever feel insignificant and you're it and you find that it's because you're comparing yourself to others, go back to that 3W framework and think about what it is that you value, because that's probably where you're gonna get your freedom.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I also, especially like when we talk about like financial planning and wealth management and all those things, I make everyone do this exercise where they need to write down all of their goals and dreams.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I always tell them, I'm like, this is not your neighbor's goal for you, or the neighbor, like your goal being that having their life or living someone else's life, or what your parents' goals are for you, um, or your kids' goals for you.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you actually want?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we play this comparison game where we start to say, like, like going back to your neighbors with the cars, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's nothing wrong with that, but that's what they value.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm with you, like I'm not really a car person.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know much about them, but I love that they get me from point A to point B.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I like it when it's clean.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my that is my barrier right there.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's my my base and minimum.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: But like we get so wrapped up and involved with like the C-suite person or, you know, the neighbors or whoever it is, like, and in our head, being like, well, I have to be doing what they're doing.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I find, and I'd love to hear like if what your experience with this is as well, of like that's when we start putting up our own barriers to entry.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, that person goes to this gym and they do this, and then they have like their food delivered, and then they do all these 15 different things, and then they go to the country club, and it's like we lose that value.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where a lot of the dominoes start to fall.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it and it's also what causes guilt and like causes imposter syndrome and a lot of other psychological mental traps that we get ourselves in.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the most critical thing that people can do when they work right to left, like you're explaining, Caroline, is to also define for themselves what enough looks like.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is easy to look at the people at the country club as an example and be like, well, heck, I want that, or to look at the people in the um that just got promoted.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I started out in consulting right out of college where I was progressing at the same pace as my peers.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I progressed very quickly.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a gentleman I remain close with to this day, 20 years later, who is still sitting at the level I left consulting in 15 years ago.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he's older than me.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's enough for him.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want more.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have another girlfriend, same thing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's enough for her.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when we get clear on what's enough for us, that also frees some of that comparison or that guilt or that imposter syndrome.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because we realize that once again, it's not what we value.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that there are two different lenses that can help people think about it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I always anchor back to the values, but I also do a lot of exercises.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like similar to you, Caroline, where I have people define what does enough in certain categories look like.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I using my body, going back to the examples, like I want my body to look pretty good.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need just I don't need my body to look like my trainers.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's too much for me.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it does not fit my lifestyle.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I it's it's not enough, it's like too much.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think about the the coworkers that I just talked about.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I keep growing in my career.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I keep chasing, I keep pushing.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're totally done.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's absolutely okay.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think also thinking about major categories in your life, like finances and um your intellectual stimulation and the roof of your head and your family, and think about all of those variables and just define for yourself what enough looks like, and that also can help for you.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do we then define enough in certain seasons?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And for example, I think of, and this this goes a little bit back to the comparison game, but let's say you're sitting here being like, hey, I really like want these things to happen, but then it's like, you know, maybe like you mentioned before, like you're in a season where you have young kids, or you know, you're you're caregiving for a parent and like there's just so much going on.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you balance that?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe balance isn't even the right thing.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's all whole, yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole episode we could say on this careline.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: What I would offer is that when people ask me, like, can you have it all?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I really do believe you can, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your all looks like somebody else's or that your all happens right now.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So as an example, I think that I'd really believe that I have it all.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what I don't have a is a flourishing network here in Charlotte.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have lots of really great friends, but my best friends to this day live in New York and DC and Florida and Alina.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're they're not physically here with me because I have not invested in being besties with the people right down the road from me.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are so many great people in Charlotte.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I do have, I do have quite a few friends here locally, but I just am not in a place in my life where I can put energy into that in the same way I could before I had kids.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that part of it is also just being very grounded and realistic about what deserves weight right now and what can wait.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like eventually, I promise you, I will have an awesome group of friends here that I've been here for gosh, uh 13 years now.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I still hardly see the people that I am good friends with here.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a lot more that I could do.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: It just can't be a priority.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that there's, you know, at the end of the day, there are 24 hours, and you have to get really clear on what what it is that you value once again, and then you can figure out how to fit all that other stuff in.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'm sure you've heard of the analogy with the golf balls, the sand.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, pebbles and sand.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of what it is.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got to fit your golf balls in first, put those things first, and then know that the other stuff will happen.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think about a lot of the people that I work with will think that things are just so busy when they have young kids.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, that's your nervous system that's feeling strained.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I promise you, like, yes, you're busy, but they go to bed every day between 7:30 and 8:30.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: They nap for two hours a day.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, you have built-in child, you have regular childcare all the time.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I think about at my stage in life right now, my boys are nine and 10.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is like so consuming.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So consuming because they don't nap.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not leaving their room until 10 o'clock every day.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm with them so much more than I ever was when they were little.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: My nervous system's chilled because they are capable of doing more.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: They are rational humans.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like they are a little bit more independent.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not having to brush their teeth for them.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So every season will have something.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: If it's chasing a promotion or doubling down on savings to say, like we, gosh, we we said no to so much when we were saving for the house, we built a custom house.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: We said no for years in order to be able to save up for this house because we prioritize this house.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is always going to be something, but when you're really clear on what it is that you value, it makes it gives you all the clarity you need to make decisions and to stick with them and move forward without feeling like you're sacrificing the wrong things because you know exactly why you're saying yes or no to something, and you can do so decisively and like with like an absolute boss.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: My hope is that anyone listening to this conversation comes back time and time again as their seasons shift.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think sometimes as those seasons shift, we need to come back to the basics, right?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And say and listen to conversations like this that are like not permission, but more of a reminder, saying, like, hey, things are going to shift, things are going to change.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not everything can be 110% all the time.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like we are human beings and we're not built that way.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's my encouragement, too, to everyone listening to this is write down your three W's.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you sharing those, and also come back to this conversation time and time again because we need the refresher that things are going to change and are meant to change, and not everything is always the season for everything.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of my clients said to me um probably about six months ago, she's like, you know what's wild is that I realized I haven't called a timeout to reflect on this since I first got married.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because she's like, I she was married.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: She um, and a lot of people when they go, when they get married, go through some form of marriage counseling or pre-CANNA process through the church or something of that nature.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, We've been married for at least 10 years, and we have never called a timeout to be like, hey, we've changed as humans.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Our needs have changed as humans.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do with that?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that your call-out caroline is incredibly astute.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love the idea then, too, like doing this yourself and then doing it as like with your partner, your spouse, whoever it might be.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even if it's like at some point having to like put your children as they get older into this too, and doing it as a family, that remapping.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I also would say that too, if you have aging parents, right?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is some level of having that shift, especially as those child adult relationships kind of flip a little bit.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when you're in that caregiver role, like seeing things start to change, like you need to continue to have that reflection.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I love you shared that story.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's that's how I tend to work with my clients is I'll start with the woman, and then I have, you know, I have them get kind of get a step ahead, and then they pull in their partner.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then if their kids are of appropriate age to pull them in, because creating a life management system, while it I most care about my my clients and re giving them relief, um, it's really got to work for the entire family in order to make it work for them.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is so true.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is so true.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one last question I have for you as we wrap up this incredible conversation is, and I I'm so excited to hear your answer after everything we just talked about.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: What is one thing that you do every day that makes you feel wealthy?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um so I've already shared that the like this is kind of material, and I'm okay with that.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've already we spent uh we saved for many years, like a decade, for the dream house.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we built the dream house.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, as my my niece um used to call it, she was like, You're building your realistic dream home.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Yeah, that's it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're building our realistic dream home, but still we did.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And every morning I wake up and I look out my backyard.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have we're surrounded by two acres.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a pool.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just knowing that I get to start my day with that giant, those French doors open half the time, and starting my day looking at that, it just grinds, it re-grounds me on why I make the decisions I do.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wanted this house not for material reasons, but because I knew that I wanted to create a space that my future kids, like that we built this before and started the process before we even got pregnant with our first.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I wanted to create a space for my future kids to where they'd they loved it so much that they'd want to keep coming back, that it would feel so much like home that when they were adults and on their own, they'd want to bring their families here, or that when they go across away to college, that they want to build their bring their friends here, that they think this is the coolest place.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is where their hearts are happy.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was just so important to me.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that when I look out my door every single morning when I wake up, um the the we have giant French doors right beside our walking out of our master.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm able to, I'm able to look outside every morning.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it just it grounds me on the the decisions I've made and why I've made them.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it just makes my my heart feel very rich.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is so beautiful.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like I can just picture you standing there right now, like holding like a cup of coffee or tea or whatever, and just like looking out and having that moment.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when I think about it too, like my mind doesn't go to like the money or the house or this, it's going to like the contentment and the joy that you have inside.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we have these conversations, is because money is cool, wealth is cool, but it's everything that you're able to do and experience with it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I really appreciate you sharing that story.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I what a great question, Caroline.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you everyone for listening.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if they want to connect with you, learn more about how they can work with you, all of the good things, where is the best place for them to reach out?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for asking.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks again for having me.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can find me um at working moms movement on Instagram.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm incredibly active there.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Please give me an ad.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can tune into my podcast, the life management system, or you can get my top 25 hacks of like life hacks on how to cut the corners and reduce a little friction in your life and make things easier at working momsmovement.com slash 25 hacks.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna link all of that in the show notes and description here because that is sounds like a really great resource.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always looking for more podcasts to add.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna be adding that into the rotation as well.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Caroline.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you having me.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, everyone, to see you again next time.