Latest / The Science of Skin / Skincare Through the Ages - Episode 3: Understanding Pre-Aging in Gen Z

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Skincare Through the Ages - Episode 3: Understanding Pre-Aging in Gen Z · The Science of Skin

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: The Skin Care Through the Ages series is sponsored by Neutrogena.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about the products mentioned in the episodes, please visit the link in the description.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to the Science of Skin podcast, formerly known as Skincare Confidential.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Dr.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Ted Lane.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a board certified dermatologist and your host for today.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I have two amazing dermatologists along with me as guests, one of whom is Dr.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Patty Ferris, who's usually a host, but this time she's a guest.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Patty, how are you?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm great.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, the amazing Dr.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Cherie Fry from the Washington, D.C.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: area.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Cherie, how are you?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing great.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: So excited to have you.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: And this is part of our Neutrogena Takeover, Skin Care Through the Ages podcast series.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: We are now moving on to, well, to kind of the Gen Z group, right, Patty?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: The those who are starting to really focus on skin care and even experience some of the signs of aging as well.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a term for that, isn't there, guys?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you wrote a paper about it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's called Pre-Aging.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: And really what we're referring to on today's episode is a publication in the Journal of Drugs and Dermatology, May of 2025.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the title is A Scientific Approach to Defining, Evaluating, and Treating Pre-Aging with a Cosmetic Regimen Containing a Novel Cosmetic Peptide, Acetyl Dipeptide 31 Amide.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to follow along, you can read this, but we're going to go through it word by word.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just joking.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to read it that way.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So listen, guys, I think one of the most interesting things was really at the beginning of the paper where you referenced this survey from the American Academy of Dermatology, which looked at the knowledge amongst Gen Z adults.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it honestly was a little bit shocking to see kind of the lack of knowledge about skin care and especially the sun's effect on the skin.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Patty, I mean, it says 52% of Gen Z adults were unaware that sunburn leads to skin cancer and premature skin aging.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was that the data was petrifying.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: As we were putting together the introduction, I was like, let me go to the aad.org and see what's going on there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they had just conducted this survey.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you know, in a way, Ted, it doesn't surprise me because a 20-year-old doesn't think that anything is going to have ramifications.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there were things in there that, you know, said that basically they'd rather look good now and that they weren't all that worried about skin cancer.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that they had been sunburned recently and that they had been tanning.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of data that came out of it that, I mean, it wasn't all that surprising because it's sort of the age at which you do things like that.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you think you're invincible.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, they're probably smoking cigarettes and staying up too late and, you know, doing all kinds of things that will be bad for them later, but you just don't think about it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very interesting though, you know, and I think the AAD has done a great job, but I I love this survey.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, they do a really good job trying to educate the public and using this data to say, look, you know, you need to protect your skin.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably the most important thing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because these are the same people are going to be in our offices 20 years later going, I need a laser and I need a chem peel.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, please give me some filler.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And where's my collagen gone?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it went up with the sun exposure.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it it it really is, like I said, it's it's a little bit shocking.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say it's more disheartening to me than anything because we've spent decades trying to educate young people about the dangers of sun exposure.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you see this and it it's just a little disheartening.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Cherie, I mean, it's it's hard for me to kind of on one hand, I see this younger group like, we know that they're drinking less alcohol, right?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a 10 to 15% drop in the alcohol consumption.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because you know, there's data now to show that any alcohol consumption is bad for you.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and they're taking that to heart.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, what 28% of survey respondents said getting a tan was more important than preventing skin cancer?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the things we have to keep in mind is how we deal with sort of overall health versus appearance, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like beauty and the perception of beauty.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Beauty is pain, is you know, is something that we say all the time.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll do just about anything to look good.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but when it comes to those downstream effects for just overall health, I think that's not, you know, on the forefront of our minds, especially when we're younger.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and just now with social media, you know, I think we'll touch on social media and the impact of social media because we discussed that in the paper, but everybody's face forward, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Face forward, selfies, even now, you know, we're doing a podcast with the video.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not just our voice, we're on camera.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: So we're just so mindful about how we look and um that that goes for all generations and they're feeling it more than ever.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: And just to the point of what you just discussed with Patty, you know, there's just so much information out there.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: We were educating people, and dermatologists were the experts, but now on social media, there's so many people who are talking about what's harmful, what's not.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, you may hear from a dermatologist, yes, sun exposure can lead to skin cancer and premature aging.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: But then you also have people who are, you know, legs up saying, Oh, you got to tan your nether regions, right, for better health.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: So there's just a lot of conflicting information out on social media, which is, you know, why some people may say, Oh, I didn't know, I didn't realize that sun exposure was such a problem.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then you have the people who just say, Well, I know it's a problem, but it makes me look good.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd rather risk it now and deal with the consequences later.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a little bit stuck on tanning the nether regions, but I'll let that one go.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: That could be a whole podcast episode.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um or not.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or not.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all right, let's talk about the exposome, Patty, because the exposome, I think, is a kind of the foundation of what we're going to talk about in regards to pre-aging.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: So can you quickly define the exposome?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is was really defined by John Kruitman and his colleagues, and they wrote a brilliant paper on it.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it really refers to the sum total of all of the environmental exposures that one gets over a lifetime.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the first and probably most important exposomal factor is solar radiation, UV obviously being the most important, but we know visible light and longer wavelengths like infrared also play a huge role in aging the skin.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got to consider pollutants.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: We know that they have a role in aging the skin.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's other things like nutrition.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Poor nutrition upregulates oxidative stress and causes reactive oxygen species and indirectly affects your skin.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And sleep and stress and, you know, all of these things, all these environmental factors.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's not just enough to stay out of the sun.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think we do have to think a little bit more holistically about a really healthy approach, as Cherie said, to uh keeping our skin looking good.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Guys, we spend so much time now talking about longevity.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And just as you were going through that, Patty, the the light bulb went off that you know, the four pillars of longevity are what exercise, stress, sleep, and diet.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And everything is really that's the exposome essentially, uh the extrinsic aspect.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, we've been talking about I guess aging, but but we're now talking about longevity.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: We're just kind of flipping it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Other side of the coin, right, Shri?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about longevity, but it's all the same stuff um that we're focusing on.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: But Shiri, just for pre-aging now, you know, that that's a relatively new term.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know it was coined in 2013 or 14 by Dr.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Arnt, but but now it's really coming in now that we have these products that are focused on it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Can can you help us understand what pre-aging means?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we know what aging is, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: You can identify the signs of aging with coarse uh wrinkles on the skin.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think people can can look and tell what what aging, true aging is, whether it's chronological aging or photo aging.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: But pre-aging is subtle.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell patients it it may be something that you notice and other people don't.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is what keeps us in the mirror, staring, just something is a little bit off, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: But we really can define it or or we can, I would say, start to characterize it, characterize it by when we express ourselves and uh really how long it takes to kind of get back to baseline.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: So if you think about when you smile, and you may see normal lines of expression when you smile, but then when you go back to rest, when you're young, you know, those just immediately go back to rest, it's smooth.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: But with pre-aging, it just takes a little longer.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so you do still see some residual lines there for a period of time, and maybe it doesn't completely go back to rest.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so those little early signs, maybe it's just a little bit of discoloration on the skin, very, very early signs before those actual sort of coarse, very visible signs of aging appear on the skin.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's usually, I would say, late 20s, 30s is is generally when we start to see those signs appearing.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So for derms, then is pre-aging what happens when your neurotoxin treatment starts wearing off?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we'll keep going.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all right.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a um a study that was done that you guys included in the paper.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: 180 female subjects ages 18 to 50 with with all different Fitzpatrick skin types that were were looked at in regards to um the clinical signs of of aging.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: An expert clinical grading instrumentation was was performed as well as there were 42 subjects who had post-uricular skin biopsies performed as well.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is a really well-done, rigorous study, wasn't it?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was um and and Cherie, it's so interesting in terms of what was found for age turning points with the difference Fitzpatrick skin types.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: I love this concept.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is turning points.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is great.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: So can you just go through because I mean they divide it up into fits one and two, three and four, and five and six.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so they group, as you said, uh together based on Fitzpatrick's skin type.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so they sort of outlined these different signs of pre-aging and aging.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so your um just really light wrinkles, dyschromia, things like that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And as they examined um all of the individuals, and including when they did the biopsies, they looked at um the extracellular matrix, they looked at elasticity of the skin.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: And as we would imagine, patients with higher Fitzpatrick skin type tended across uh multiple generations to have higher elasticity to their skin, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: So so we know that to be true.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: But this new concept of age turning point, what is that?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you had to pinpoint a time or a narrow range of years where you go basically from having very young, youthful appearing skin to now you start to move into that your skin is aging.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: What is that turning point?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I would love it if we could pinpoint it, you know, to the to the year, to the month, but they were able to see that Fitzpatrick skin types one and two tended to have an earlier turning point than Fitzpatrick skin types three, four, than Fitzpatrick skin types five and six.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're starting to see it, say in in your late 20s uh to age 31 and your Fitzpatrick skin type one and two, maybe you're starting to see it in your 31 to 35 and Fitzpatrick skin types three and four.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: But then for Fitzpatrick skin types five and six, you know, you're seeing that turning point later, 35 to 40.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very interesting.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it fits with what we know about the differences, the biologic differences, um, depending on, you know, uh your skin type.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: But it was great to actually have evidence of that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it just it helps us so we can inform our patients a little bit better.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: There are always going to be outliers, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is not completely true of everyone, but when you look at a population or a sample of the population, this pretty much held true depending on Fitzpatrick's skin type.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Very interesting.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, Patty, just when we're done treating acne, we start treating aging in our patients.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently so.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we should.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think another interesting finding out of this study is that although the aging turning points were different, and obviously this just confirms what we know, melanin does protect your skin to some extent.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the clinical stigmata was pretty consistent across the skin phototypes.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was uneven skin tone, fine lines and wrinkles, dark circles, and roughness.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it wasn't like they saw different things, they just saw them at different ages.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that part of it was really very interesting.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, it it's it speaks to the early intervention and the importance of early intervention, especially in people with Caucasian skin with really light photos uh Fitzpatrick skin types.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's such an opportunity for derms right now as well because there's so much interest in skincare, especially especially among just gen alpha who are going to Sephora and buying so much skincare.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, employing their moms to help buy them skincare.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so they're into it, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's an opportunity for us to really kind of highlight that and and build upon that awareness to start making sure they're using the correct types of products to delay these turning points.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because right now the age turning points are 25, what do we say, 25, 30, and 35?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: 25, 30, and 35.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, depending on the skin types, maybe we can push them to 30, 35, and 40 with great skincare started early.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the purpose of this paper and the purpose of these Neutrogena collagen bank products that we're gonna talk about.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it one just key fact is that collagen decline begins in the 20s and continues to decline with age, that such that we lose about 1% per year throughout life of our collagen.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think muscle mass actually goes along with that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: And bone health as well, especially for women.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so that kind of one percent per year really puts it into context, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Five percent by your by the time you're 30 if you start at 25.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's significant, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it it's it's very significant.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think we the story on collagen is is written pretty well, but we also have to think about uh the other components of the extracellular matrix, elastin, and of course your glycosamine glycans, you know, all of those uh molecules and how important they are to keeping your skin youthful and supple.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, for people who care so much about what their skin looks like right now that they're you know willing to risk a tan, um I think really helping to impress these points upon them.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like you want to look good now, but what you really want to do is you want to look as as good as possible for as long as possible.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how can we maximize that peak?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's really what these products are about when we talk about college and bank, right?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about trying to take what you have now, maximizing that, because when you start losing, you want to lose from sort of the highest point possible, your zenith.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And they were looking at the fibroblast, right?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: They they cultured fibroblast from different ages, and they saw that the younger fibroblast actually responded the worst to a UV insult in terms of the damage that it can cause.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: The flip side is that of that is that they responded to the best in terms of uh Bacuchiol or some skincare ingredients to help turn that around.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this was, I think, the most interesting part of this whole paper was that if you get sun as a young person, you make more reactive oxygen species and upregulate oxidative stress so much better, or so much worse, we should say, than somebody who's older.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that early sun, these Gen Zs and what they're doing is so significant because it really is damaging their skin far worse than if they did it when they were 60.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this is so interesting.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: But then you're, as you mentioned, Ted, these fibroblasts were more responsive, and it was retinol that they looked at.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: They were more responsive to retinol.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a silver lining.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Bad news is your skin is more reactive and gives you more reactive oxygen species after UVA.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: The good news is if you put retinol on it, it's more responsive to the retinol.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I said Bacucciol.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was retinol.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, this is really, really important.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is, I think, a great message that you can take to your practice to use on kids that are this age.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're doing the worst, you're damaging your skin at the worst time you could possibly damage it when you're doing it in your 20s and your early 30s.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: The Skin Care Through the Ages series is sponsored by Neutrogena.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: For over 90 years, Neutrogena has advanced skin health for all skin types with formulation expertise that combines scientifically proven ingredients and innovative technologies to deliver maximum efficacy and an unparalleled aesthetics experience.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's beauty to a science.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about the products mentioned in the episodes, please visit the link in the description.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Sheree Neutrogena figured all this out, right?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: They did all this day, they took a look at all this data.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: They said, okay, there's a real opportunity for us to, as you said, heighten the zenith, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure where there's our our our patients are starting at the highest amount of collagen and elastin as we possibly could get them in their mid-20s.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that starts with this novel line, the collagen bank products, which kind of the foundational are the AM with SPF and the PM cream, although they have a vitamin C and some other products in there as well now.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um talk to us about what are in these products and what what excites you about them.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you mentioned the peptide AB31, which I think is um such a great um molecule.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: So with peptides, you know, larger than a single amino acid, so at least two of those, but but smaller than the protein.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um and the issue with peptides, although there's decades and decades of research on peptides, it's really can it get to where it needs to get?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: Can it penetrate?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so with AB31, it's a micropeptide.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we usually say that 500 Dalton is the cutoff, and we need something smaller than that to penetrate.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: And there are other things that play a role with penetration, but size matters essentially.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is a micropeptide, it's it's it's smaller, so it can get down into the skin.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: And what we really need is for it to have an effect in the dermis where those tissues live.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so we can do that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: But another exciting thing about it is that it's anti-inflammatory.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so some peptides have dual roles, and and this is one that has that dual role.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And another preclinical study, they compared it to dexamethasone and a calcinurin inhibitor, um, which both we know really suppress inflammation.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And when it came to things like TNF alpha, this AP31 was just as potent as the steroid and the calcinurin inhibitor as suppressing inflammation.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we know that term that's out there, inflammation, and the role that inflammation plays in aging.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: So you're not just getting stimulation of elastin, decorin, fibronectin, all of these things you need to build up the extracellular matrix.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: You're also getting an anti-inflammatory uh effect from it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so, as you mentioned, that's in the morning, the AM product with sunscreen and the PM product, it's together with Bucuchiol, which we know is the that plant-based uh retinol-like ingredient, um, which is also anti-inflammatory and an antioxidant, but then we also can benefit from its retinol-like properties as well.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Bacuchial is super interesting, Patty.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's as Sheree just said, it it has antioxidant and um properties, anti-inflammatory as well.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I it's an interesting in uh combination of ingredients because we think of Bacuchial as having those retinol-like like effects, but being so much more tolerable than retinol.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it absolutely is.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think one of the things to mention is this is a novel molecule.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: The team at Neutrogena developed this acetyl dipeptide 31.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was seven years in development, and Cherie aptly points out it was started as an anti-inflammatory molecule, and they tested it in patients with atopidermatitis, and it performed incredibly well in the clinical studies that followed the studies that you mentioned, uh, comparing it to deximethesone and tachrolimus, I think it was.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an incredible anti inflammatory.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: They then started pivoting and looking at it in skin for looking at biomarkers, and they found it upregulated collagen.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Elastin, hyaluronic acid decorin, and what's the fifth one?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Fibronectin.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Fibronectin, thank you.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's so incredible that it's it's a dual-functioning molecule, anti-aging molecule, as uh Cherie points out.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's not a lot of novel molecules in the cosmetic space.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is one that I think is super well thought out, well formulated, and it's you know found its way onto the shelves.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's an incredible incredible story.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, the researchers who developed this got an award from Johnson ⁇ Johnson for developing this novel molecule.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: So well deserved.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well deserved.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really is.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a cool story, and it's so well studied.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Given the anti-inflammatory effects of both the Bacucciol and acetyl dipeptide, Shri, do you think that this that the collagen line collagen bank line of products is appropriate for those with sensitive skin?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I've used it in my practice in patients with sensitive skin.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I haven't had issues.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, there are always those who, you know, can't tolerate a there's not a single product that, you know, 100% of people are going to be able to tolerate for one reason or another.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but broadly, I haven't had issues with patients with sensitive skin.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it may be because of that anti-inflammatory effect.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: So you're, you know, you're able to get ingredients that you normally wouldn't be able to get in because you have that dual roll of um of your peptide there.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: So my patients have tolerated it very well.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you've you've kind of taken us through, sure, you've taken us through the preclinical studies that were done, especially on the acetyl dipeptide, but then they did some studies on ex vivo skin um with the regimen, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: With the collagen, excuse me, collagen bank PM and collagen bank PM.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this was really interesting when when applied to ex vivo skin and then uh exposed to ultraviolet radiation, they they looked at both elastin and collagen type one.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and and Patty, it's pretty interesting what they found because compared to the untreated, and again, this is with UV insult, right?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah, which you think would decrease both collagen type 1 or elastin or and elastin, the results were kind of amazing, weren't they?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they looked at collagen type 1 and it UVA, of course, downregulated collagen type 1 and the Bucuchiol itself protected.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then they looked at MMPs, and what they found was that, of course, UVA bumped those matrix metalloproteases, the enzymes that break down collagen way up.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And although they went up after UVA with Bacuchiol, there was less of them released.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was mitigated to some extent, not completely.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the part of this that I really like is where they really look at the regimen and they show that the regimen itself actually works better than either of the products alone.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they show this synergy, and this is where they look at collagen type one, and they look at elastin as well.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you can just see how nicely this regimen, if you use the AM and the PM together, work.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: The AM works alone a little bit, and the PM works alone, but together they give you that synergistic effect.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you mentioned the the vitamin C.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm curious now what happens when you get all three of these products together.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: That that can be really exciting.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when the the regimen, there's a dose-dependent effect, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: With the acetyl dipeptide, I think, in particular, such that when the regimen was used, AM and PM, and then exposed to UV, it had 114% collagen type 1 relative to the untreated skin.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So in other words, there was more collagen despite UV radiation with when the regimen was used.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the same goes for elastin.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: There was more elastin despite UV radiation.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe collagen type 3 and 4 show showed the same.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So in terms of the power of the acetyldipeptide and Bacuchiol used in synergistically in these products, I think we absolutely see that in the ex vivo skin uh models used here.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: But there's that dose dependency that people need to understand.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you get some effect if you use the AM or the PM, but use them together, people, because you get the acetyldipeptide dose-dependent effect that that is really important.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where we see, and just like Sheree said, we want to hit that zenith right by age 25.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we got to get as much of that into our skin as possible.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you can still benefit, you know, even you know, you say to yourself, I'm 35, 40, I'm 45 or 50, you can still benefit from these products.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we talked about pre-aging and sort of this concept prejuvenation, but these products are really appropriate for all ages.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then, Patty, it was used in in for clinical grading as well, right?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, in a study uh where the regimen was used on actual live patients.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they did a nice little clinical study here and they looked at under-eye wrinkles, crow's feet, firmness, lack of elasticity, overall skin on skin tone.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a 12-week study, and at the in the eight-week point as well as the 12-week point, they saw a statistically significant improvement in all of the parameters.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, what I do love about the way Neutrogena studies things, they start with the early, you know, discovery, they go into all of that preclinical work, really demonstrating exactly what the mechanism of action is.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately it ends up on patients.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, this was you know, uh, I think just a very nice, very complete way to study it.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as I always say, the proof's in the pudding, right?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in the end, it's got to work on the patient.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: All of the biomarkers in the world and all of the histologies in the world don't really mean anything if the patients don't see anything, or more importantly, if the doctor who's the investigator can't see it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And these were, you know, clinical grading done by board-certified dermatologists, I believe.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: There was also some interesting um imaging done to look at skin like skin glycation, uh, where they showed a decrease in the glycation of the skin.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sheree, talk us through what glycation is and why that's important, because it's one of those hidden um pre-aging issues that we need to address.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it looks like we're doing that with this line of products.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, glycation is having a moment, isn't it?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's been around.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's as old as the hills.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: The mayor reaction, so a non-enzymatic reaction between um sugars, usually glucose and other molecules like your proteins and your lipids, which you know, your skin is rich with those molecules.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so when this reaction occurs, uh, a couple things happen.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: One, it can lead to sort of a browning or a dullness in the skin.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: But also these proteins and lipids, they can't function like they should.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: They become stiff.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so you think about collagen and elastin sort of not performing uh the way they need to perform, that's obviously going to lead to the signs of aging.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so glycation, like I said, is really um having a moment where understanding its role in aging a little bit more, and more and more products are um being explored to address glycation.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and this is one that does help to reverse glycation in the skin.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think um we've really reviewed all the data supporting both the preclinical and the clinical data supporting the use of this collagen bank line of products.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's worthwhile if we could just take a minute, guys, and talk about how these kinds of publications and these kinds of products really democratize the idea of skin health and skin beauty.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because now we're talking about mass market products that are in a very affordable price range.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Looking at, you know, when the first Estee Lauder Cream that came out, her her wonderful crack, I can't remember the name of it, but it was, you know, expensive back in the day.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: This was 50 or 70 years ago, and it was something like a hundred dollars back then.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it had all these great ingredients and and it really did improve skin health, but who could afford that, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And now here we are, 70 plus years later, and we've got just incredible science, a brand new peptide um showing synergy synergy that's at such an affordable price point for for just the regular Joe, you know.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think you hit it on the head, the democratization is so important, and not only at the price point, but also for all skin types.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: This has been tested on all skin types from the very get-go, from the aging turning point study all the way on down, you know, to the very end.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's available to everybody.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, at a great price point.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as you said, it's been tested so well.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: We can feel so comfortable telling our patients, you know, there's something great you can get in the drugstore.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you don't have to go and spend a whole lot of money to get a lot of bang for your box.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of bang for your butt.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's really good.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Mic drop on that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think we have uh sufficiently covered this, guys.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: As always, you have been amazing, uh, just true skincare experts and scientific experts at that.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this has been the Gen Z episode in our Skin Care Through the Ages series supported by Neutrogena.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Dr.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Ted Lane.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have been with Dr.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Patty Ferris and Dr.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sheree Fry.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for listening.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: We found that the growth of the podcast really is achieved through word of mouth.
• 31:31
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• 31:34
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• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in any case, please continue to listen to the Skin Care Through the Ages.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: We have amazing episodes coming up as we work through through menopause.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to do a men's health, uh, skin health episode as well.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll we'll button this all up, Patty, with you and me talking about kind of 2025 and and what we learned and what was hot and what we look forward to in 2026.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that'll that'll be towards the end of the year, won't it?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to it.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, thank you so much for listening, everybody.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: The Skin Care Through the Ages series is sponsored by Neutrogena.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: For over 90 years, Neutrogena has advanced skin health for all skin types, with formulation expertise that combines scientifically proven ingredients and innovative technologies to deliver maximum efficacy and an unparalleled aesthetics experience.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's beauty to a science.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about the products mentioned in the episodes, please visit the link in the description.