Latest / The You Project / #1819 Our Lumpy Friendship - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#1819 Our Lumpy Friendship - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Good Day Champs. It's Craig Anthony and Robert Capuccio. It's
0:04
Speaker 1: the You Project. It's the self help antidote. We're calling this.
0:09
Speaker 1: This is called a koshare. That's what the kids call it, Bobby.
0:13
Speaker 2: Is that what the kids are calling me get these days?
0:15
Speaker 2: That is? That?
0:16
Speaker 1: Is?
0:17
Speaker 2: Is that? Like cohabitation is different. I'm getting off track already.
0:21
Speaker 1: It's a form of cohabitation. It's my it's my podcast
0:25
Speaker 1: and your podcast cohabitating in the one well in two spaces.
0:30
Speaker 1: It's a convergence. And maybe it's also laziness because it
0:34
Speaker 1: means that we can do one recording and get two podcasts,
0:37
Speaker 1: which I think is efficient.
0:40
Speaker 2: No, it's efficiency. It's definitely not laziness. Why who said that?
0:44
Speaker 2: Does someone called us? So are you?
0:46
Speaker 1: What is what is news? What is news with you?
0:49
Speaker 1: What is going on?
0:50
Speaker 2: Just doing a lot of rating, a lot of content creation, Greg,
0:53
Speaker 2: just a lot of deadlines I'm working towards because you know,
0:57
Speaker 2: I don't want people to be upset with me like that. Kapuchia,
1:00
Speaker 2: you dropped the boy.
1:02
Speaker 1: You said to me before we went live that you
1:04
Speaker 1: were you were joking, but you said I'm a paople plasers,
1:07
Speaker 1: so I don't like doing whatever it was. Is that true?
1:11
Speaker 1: Do you do you actually think you're a paple plaser
1:13
Speaker 1: or were you just fucking around?
1:15
Speaker 2: Now? I struggle with that. I like to think, like,
1:18
Speaker 2: here's here's what I'm going to say, just because you
1:20
Speaker 2: know people are listening to this, so it makes me
1:23
Speaker 2: look good. I like to say that I'm not defined
1:26
Speaker 2: by other people's opinions, but I am deeply affected by it,
1:30
Speaker 2: which I think, to a certain degree is healthy. I mean,
1:32
Speaker 2: if you don't care about what anybody thinks you're you're
1:35
Speaker 2: either delusional or you may be a sociopath, which statistically
1:39
Speaker 2: is unlikely. You just might not be one hundred percent
1:42
Speaker 2: honest with yourself, but it really does affect me. I
1:45
Speaker 2: had a meeting with my boss earlier this morning for coffee,
1:49
Speaker 2: which she quickly regretted because I had a large coffee
1:52
Speaker 2: and it was a got a bit intense. But we
1:55
Speaker 2: were talking about like last year, I was struggling with
2:00
Speaker 2: just a couple of relationships where I was running around
2:04
Speaker 2: and trying to I think, tell myself, I'm here to
2:08
Speaker 2: serve these people, and I was trying not to disappoint
2:11
Speaker 2: them and just make them happy and the goalpost kept
2:15
Speaker 2: moving like Okay, that's fine, but you didn't do that.
2:18
Speaker 2: And she's like, and you just like chase them around
2:22
Speaker 2: and constantly tried to recalibrate, and it's like you lost
2:26
Speaker 2: yourself a little bit and it took a toll on
2:29
Speaker 2: you and it wasn't positive for them or for you
2:33
Speaker 2: or you know. She's like, the organization was fine. You know,
2:37
Speaker 2: nothing happened, nobody went to HR, nobody quit. But she
2:40
Speaker 2: was like, probably wasn't the best approach. And I was like, oh,
2:45
Speaker 2: I wonder why I do that.
2:47
Speaker 1: I think there's two disparate things here regarding like one is,
2:53
Speaker 1: you know, as per my research, having an insight and
2:56
Speaker 1: understanding into how people perceive and process and experience you metaperception.
3:02
Speaker 1: That's one that's just like a kind of awareness. And
3:05
Speaker 1: then the other is anxiety fear driven worrying about whether
3:10
Speaker 1: or not someone likes me or what they think of me,
3:14
Speaker 1: you know. Rather than one's like fear driven, one's curiosity driven.
3:18
Speaker 1: I think, and that when I tell people about my
3:21
Speaker 1: research that some especially often do to like, I don't
3:25
Speaker 1: give a fuck what people think of me. I'm just
3:27
Speaker 1: going to be me and if they don't, I'm like, Okay, well,
3:31
Speaker 1: good luck, good luck being a leader, good luck having
3:34
Speaker 1: a team, and good luck being you know, part of
3:37
Speaker 1: something bigger than just you. You know. So I think
3:40
Speaker 1: the distinction is for people to understand we're not coming
3:44
Speaker 1: from a place of fear and insecurity and self doubt
3:46
Speaker 1: and anxiety as in no, do they like me, please
3:49
Speaker 1: like me, but rather just that awareness of like, I'm
3:53
Speaker 1: curious that, like, what is it like for our audience
3:57
Speaker 1: listening to you and to me? What is that experience like?
4:01
Speaker 2: Because you and Eyefel I would imagine it.
4:04
Speaker 1: I would imagine, right. But you know, the truth is,
4:07
Speaker 1: so you're a professional teacher, coach, mentor speaker. Your job
4:12
Speaker 1: is to literally stand and or sit whatever the case
4:15
Speaker 1: or the situation, but and talk to lots of people. Now,
4:19
Speaker 1: if you have no idea what that is like for them,
4:22
Speaker 1: you're at very best. You're just guessing and flying by
4:25
Speaker 1: the city of pants, right.
4:27
Speaker 2: You know, people talk a lot about emotional intelligence and
4:30
Speaker 2: how critical it is to succeeding in collaborative endeavors, which
4:34
Speaker 2: just about everything, and you could argue that, you could
4:37
Speaker 2: argue that where you are within the leadership hierarchy depends
4:41
Speaker 2: on you know, how much of an advantage or a
4:44
Speaker 2: detriment emotional intelligence is. That's a totally different conversation. But
4:48
Speaker 2: it's like when you ask yourself, what does it mean
4:51
Speaker 2: to be emotionally intelligent? It's the ability to be self
4:55
Speaker 2: aware and other aware. I'm aware of my own emotiontional
5:00
Speaker 2: state and perspective, and I am also aware of the
5:06
Speaker 2: experiential emotional state of others, and I could regulate my thoughts, emotions,
5:13
Speaker 2: and behaviors based on that assessment or based on the
5:18
Speaker 2: ability to calibrate all of those different things. At wants
5:21
Speaker 2: to kint it's almost the set of empathy. I think
5:25
Speaker 2: you're right. There is the influence that other people's opinion
5:32
Speaker 2: have of you. Is it so that you can modify
5:35
Speaker 2: and adjust how it is you're engaging in the world,
5:38
Speaker 2: or is it something where you are dependent on external validation,
5:44
Speaker 2: which everybody is to a degree. But if that's what's
5:47
Speaker 2: guiding you, I think it's very different than Okay, if
5:51
Speaker 2: I am a leader, if I am a writer, if
5:52
Speaker 2: IM a speaker, what quintessentially is my purpose? Why do
5:56
Speaker 2: I do that? And if it is to make a
5:57
Speaker 2: contribution if it is at some level to serve, you
6:01
Speaker 2: have to be sensitive and and intentionally focused on how
6:08
Speaker 2: you're impacting people. Can I can I bring something up
6:12
Speaker 2: from a conversation, a very personal conversation we had over
6:15
Speaker 2: a year ago. Yeah, of course go where you had said,
6:20
Speaker 2: you know, you need to understand the experience of you
6:26
Speaker 2: and that that I mean that that hit me like
6:29
Speaker 2: I did like the ice water challenge a few years
6:32
Speaker 2: earlier than that. That statement hit me harder than a
6:35
Speaker 2: bucket of ice water. And because I know it, I
6:38
Speaker 2: know it's true, like I know in relation to me,
6:43
Speaker 2: it's true. And it's like, oh did that did that
6:48
Speaker 2: feel good?
6:49
Speaker 1: No?
6:49
Speaker 2: It didn't. But like over time, when I sat with that,
6:54
Speaker 2: I was I was deeply grateful for it because I
6:59
Speaker 2: think we need that from one another when it comes
7:01
Speaker 2: from a police of care, and we need to be
7:05
Speaker 2: open to that. Otherwise we're not emotionally intelligent. We can't
7:09
Speaker 2: we can't collaborate with people. If we can't do that,
7:11
Speaker 2: good luck doing anything.
7:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think, like you know, since I first met you,
7:17
Speaker 1: which is over two decades ago, and we've done stuff
7:20
Speaker 1: fond enough over the years. It's funny because you know,
7:24
Speaker 1: especially for the guy who has no siblings, Like I've
7:26
Speaker 1: always felt a little bit, not in a weird way,
7:29
Speaker 1: but like I've always I always thought you were and
7:31
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not just saying this everyone to make
7:33
Speaker 1: him feel good. He knows this, Like I've always felt
7:35
Speaker 1: like you were and you are very intelligent and very
7:38
Speaker 1: gifted and very capable. And so I'm always coming from
7:41
Speaker 1: a good place. And I've always been or periodically been
7:46
Speaker 1: perplexed at, ah, how little recognition you've got from some
7:56
Speaker 1: people now, and I think you should it's just my
8:00
Speaker 1: opinion got more recognition, and you know a few other
8:04
Speaker 1: things that we won't bang on about. But you know,
8:06
Speaker 1: when I say things like that to you, even though
8:11
Speaker 1: it's not what people want to hear, necessarily, it's coming
8:13
Speaker 1: from a good place. And that is because you know,
8:18
Speaker 1: I want you know, if you don't understand or I
8:22
Speaker 1: don't understand what it is like being around you or
8:24
Speaker 1: around me, then how can we build optimal connection and
8:28
Speaker 1: rapport with others? And you know, like I've spent my
8:33
Speaker 1: life being not very good at things and then working
8:35
Speaker 1: to be better. Like there's been other than maybe I
8:41
Speaker 1: was going to say, maybe like in naturally, I'm a
8:43
Speaker 1: recently good communicator, but even that, there are so many
8:46
Speaker 1: parts of communication that I wasn't good at, and still
8:50
Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, brilliant at. But I think that
8:54
Speaker 1: is one of the challenges of friendship too, is do
9:01
Speaker 1: I want them to tell me what I want to hear,
9:04
Speaker 1: or do I want them to truly give me feedback
9:07
Speaker 1: that might not be the most comfortable, you know. And
9:11
Speaker 1: I remember that, and I remember I was conflicted because
9:14
Speaker 1: I felt what did I feel? And I even sent
9:19
Speaker 1: you a message the other day. We won't say the
9:21
Speaker 1: totality of that message, right, I sent you a message
9:23
Speaker 1: and basically went, I think I fucked a few things up,
9:28
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, and I love you and that's it.
9:31
Speaker 1: And I think that for me, look at us, it's
9:35
Speaker 1: like fucking doctor Phil here. But I just think that
9:38
Speaker 1: it is important in friendship to go you know, I
9:42
Speaker 1: think I did well with that, or I think I
9:45
Speaker 1: fucked that up, and not like, oh I fucked that
9:47
Speaker 1: up because you did this and then you did that. No, No,
9:50
Speaker 1: I just I got that thing wrong, absolutely one hundred
9:53
Speaker 1: percent me. And I think that being able to work
9:56
Speaker 1: through that stuff while still you know, like My litmus
10:04
Speaker 1: test for friendship is two things. One is is my
10:08
Speaker 1: life better with this person in it? That's number one
10:11
Speaker 1: of my litmus friendship test. And the answer for that
10:14
Speaker 1: with you to me is yes. And the next one
10:17
Speaker 1: is do you say nice things behind that person's back
10:23
Speaker 1: and do they do the same? I'm like, well, I
10:26
Speaker 1: would think, I don't know about you, I hope so,
10:29
Speaker 1: but definitely me, And then I think, Okay, then this
10:32
Speaker 1: is really worth working on. And we've gotten very deep,
10:37
Speaker 1: very quick. But I think that's one of the challenges
10:39
Speaker 1: of otherwise we're just gonna We're going to live in
10:42
Speaker 1: this fucking echo chamber of kind of self serving bullshit
10:48
Speaker 1: to an extent.
10:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think relationships one. I think when it comes
10:53
Speaker 2: to mental health and ultimately happiness, We've discussed this before.
10:58
Speaker 2: I think the pursuit of how happiness is almost a
11:01
Speaker 2: guarantee that it will evade us for the rest of
11:04
Speaker 2: our lives. It's it's a horrible endeavor. I think it's
11:08
Speaker 2: an unavoidable consequence of engaging in things that are meaningful.
11:12
Speaker 2: I think meaning is the key, not happiness, but because
11:16
Speaker 2: of the depth of value that relationships have, I think
11:20
Speaker 2: it's the seat of mental health or a critical component
11:23
Speaker 2: mental health and happiness as well. And you said something
11:27
Speaker 2: about rapport and report is critical to this. It's it's
11:31
Speaker 2: a to me, rapport is a relationship of positive responsiveness
11:36
Speaker 2: where you could be in response to one another and
11:40
Speaker 2: show up for that even when, or probably especially when
11:44
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel good and it's really hard. You know,
11:49
Speaker 2: I felt you'll hear people go, ah, you know, I
11:51
Speaker 2: was dating this person and I just wasn't right and
11:53
Speaker 2: I moved on, and I moved on, and a lot
11:55
Speaker 2: of times if it's not right, move on. But it's like,
11:57
Speaker 2: sometimes you know, you're too dynamic. I make growing people,
12:01
Speaker 2: and if there's not that room for loving ruthless. Honestly,
12:06
Speaker 2: I hate the word ruthless. I think that was the
12:08
Speaker 2: wrong word to use. But this this kind of honesty
12:13
Speaker 2: that needs to take place. If you can't get past
12:17
Speaker 2: the ego, because we all have to contend with our ego,
12:21
Speaker 2: it kind of makes it hard to have long term, sustainable,
12:26
Speaker 2: empowering relationships in our life. And I think, you know what,
12:30
Speaker 2: Gratitude wasn't the only emotion. I felt like. There were
12:34
Speaker 2: times when I was like, I'm not gonna say it,
12:35
Speaker 2: on the podcast, but the thoughts in my head, I
12:37
Speaker 2: was quite pissed off and resentful. And then it's like, no,
12:41
Speaker 2: because I know there were times in my life where
12:46
Speaker 2: I wish somebody would have told me the truth. And
12:50
Speaker 2: it's kind of a contradiction because as a coach, I'm
12:52
Speaker 2: always like, well, I don't tell people, I'll ask. But
12:55
Speaker 2: for me, I wished that they would have told me
12:58
Speaker 2: the truth and they didn't think enough of me to
13:00
Speaker 2: tell me the truth. And like when someone I really
13:03
Speaker 2: care about that I have a strong friendship with tells
13:05
Speaker 2: me something, or when anybody does this, but it holds
13:10
Speaker 2: a lot more weight when there is that this emotional intimacy.
13:17
Speaker 2: Is that true? Like is that true? Have I heard
13:21
Speaker 2: this before? Or have I suspected I've noticed this pattern
13:26
Speaker 2: with me? So around the same time we had this conversation,
13:31
Speaker 2: I was told a lot of other things about myself
13:34
Speaker 2: from someone else, and I said, when have I ever
13:37
Speaker 2: heard this before? And the answer was, I have never
13:41
Speaker 2: heard this before. Ever, this is the first time I've
13:44
Speaker 2: ever heard this from someone. I'm not taking this on
13:47
Speaker 2: board what I heard from you. It's like, oh, not
13:51
Speaker 2: only have I heard it from someone, I didn't need to.
13:54
Speaker 2: I know it. It's like god, it all right? What
13:58
Speaker 2: is that impact that I'm having? And how do I
14:01
Speaker 2: move forward and be a little bit more self aware
14:05
Speaker 2: or what are the strategies that I can implement when
14:08
Speaker 2: I feel I'm getting into a point emotionally where self
14:11
Speaker 2: awareness is lacking. I need some preemptive tools otherwise I'm
14:16
Speaker 2: going to perpetuate being this person in situations.
14:20
Speaker 1: And I think, like I talk about this concept about
14:23
Speaker 1: being an unreasonable friend, and the unreasonable friend is someone
14:27
Speaker 1: that just tells you maybe what they think you need
14:32
Speaker 1: to here, but maybe don't want to hear. And I
14:35
Speaker 1: think if that is genuinely someone that loves you and
14:37
Speaker 1: wants you to succeed, I think that's important. They actually
14:41
Speaker 1: really want you to succeed, and they don't want you
14:44
Speaker 1: to succeed because there's some upside for them, there's a
14:48
Speaker 1: benefit for them. No, it's selfless. I just want you
14:52
Speaker 1: to do well. You know this is a funny thing, right,
14:55
Speaker 1: I don't even know if you know this, but so
14:57
Speaker 1: there's a guy over here called Sam Wood, and Sam
15:01
Speaker 1: used to work for me Bobby's in the States. Everyone
15:05
Speaker 1: in cash and figured that out by now but Sam
15:07
Speaker 1: used to work for me. And Sam's killed it, crushed it.
15:10
Speaker 1: He went on a show called The Bachelor, which you
15:11
Speaker 1: have over there. He was the Bachelor, heaps of airtime.
15:15
Speaker 1: He started a business called twenty eight. He's got a gym.
15:20
Speaker 1: In fact, he's got what was my old gym now
15:23
Speaker 1: that's called the Woodshed. But he's built this amazing brand
15:29
Speaker 1: and become very, very very successful. And I reckon, I
15:33
Speaker 1: get asked about once a month, so what do you
15:38
Speaker 1: think of? What do you think of?
15:40
Speaker 2: Sam?
15:40
Speaker 1: Would you know? People like what do you think of?
15:43
Speaker 1: And I think they're thinking they're waiting for me to
15:46
Speaker 1: like say something critical or because he's just gone on
15:50
Speaker 1: in leaps and bounds and he's a multi millionaire and
15:53
Speaker 1: he's in the media and he's just killing it, and
15:56
Speaker 1: I go, how fucking good is it? And they're like
15:59
Speaker 1: what And I go, yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing, Like
16:04
Speaker 1: he's killing it and I'm genuinely happy for him, and
16:07
Speaker 1: people people can't believe that.
16:11
Speaker 2: Now.
16:11
Speaker 1: Of course it depends what metrics you use, but if
16:13
Speaker 1: you just want to say commercial success crushing me, and
16:18
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm so happy that somebody that I worked
16:20
Speaker 1: with somebody that actually originally worked for me, like there's
16:25
Speaker 1: nothing in me that doesn't want him to succeed. And
16:29
Speaker 1: I don't actually understand, like I mean, I theoretically understand it,
16:34
Speaker 1: because I understand ego and I understand all the bullshit.
16:36
Speaker 1: But yeah, that genuinely being able to celebrate another person's success,
16:42
Speaker 1: even if you're not right now succeeding, because if somebody
16:47
Speaker 1: else is, if your friend's success bothers you, then you're
16:51
Speaker 1: not a friend. That's not friendship.
16:56
Speaker 2: What you're saying about this guy, he sounds brilliant and driven,
17:00
Speaker 2: and he was on the Bachelor, so he's also probably
17:02
Speaker 2: very good looking, and you know, you have to admit
17:05
Speaker 2: someone like that. It does kind of help if they
17:08
Speaker 2: have some really fucked up personality flaw, or if they
17:12
Speaker 2: don't like a body part that's grotesquely deformed, like he's
17:17
Speaker 2: got a couple of really jacked up toes but nobody
17:20
Speaker 2: knows about it. I would find that a little bit
17:22
Speaker 2: helpful to reconcile. Yeah.
17:24
Speaker 1: No, he's annoyingly good looking, charismatic, charming, and pretty clever.
17:29
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's he's got the fucking he's got the
17:31
Speaker 1: whole Chilada.
17:33
Speaker 2: He sounds horrible to be fair.
17:38
Speaker 1: Oh dear, Oh dear, hey, I wanted to ask you. You
17:40
Speaker 1: were talking before about like the interesting insection of a
17:45
Speaker 1: couple of variables. One you kind of said that you're
17:49
Speaker 1: probably less but something of a people pleaser at times,
17:53
Speaker 1: which I think I have been at times as well.
17:58
Speaker 1: But also you often operate in a position of leadership
18:04
Speaker 1: and coaching and where you are giving people feedback and direction.
18:09
Speaker 1: Where how do you do that? How do you give people?
18:13
Speaker 1: You give people direction, feedback, input that they might not
18:17
Speaker 1: want to hear, while so simultaneously not wanting to raffle
18:22
Speaker 1: any metaphoric feathers.
18:24
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up, because I think
18:28
Speaker 2: when we're talking about close friendships there's a different dynamic.
18:33
Speaker 2: And for me, in leadership, I feel like there's a
18:38
Speaker 2: responsibility for the people in your charge. And I know
18:42
Speaker 2: that most people have a level of reactance within their
18:48
Speaker 2: operating system. And it's almost like, if you don't want
18:51
Speaker 2: to move forward with people, or if you want people
18:54
Speaker 2: to continue doing a behavior that is damaging to theirselfs
18:58
Speaker 2: and others, tell them why they should stop doing it.
19:01
Speaker 2: Maybe give them some science like some a couple of references,
19:06
Speaker 2: definitely tell them what you would do in that situation,
19:10
Speaker 2: and you're almost sure to perpetuate it for me. And
19:13
Speaker 2: in that situation, I try to ask questions and first
19:18
Speaker 2: the step because I had a conversation recently like this,
19:21
Speaker 2: and it's like, all right, you know, you don't really
19:24
Speaker 2: have to do anything, like just because I'm your leader
19:27
Speaker 2: or you know, like your quote unquote boss, which I
19:32
Speaker 2: don't I don't feel on anyone's boss, but just because
19:35
Speaker 2: we're in that position within the organization, you don't have
19:38
Speaker 2: to do what I tell you to do. There are
19:40
Speaker 2: always other options, and you could you could passively resist too,
19:44
Speaker 2: like all right, yeah, got your boss, but I'm going
19:47
Speaker 2: to either comply or defy as soon as you leave
19:50
Speaker 2: this room. But you know, if you were to do
19:56
Speaker 2: something else, let's say a behavior that I would feel
20:00
Speaker 2: constructive for your position, for you, for the team, for
20:03
Speaker 2: the end user. What would be some of your reasons
20:07
Speaker 2: and it might be none, but what would be some
20:09
Speaker 2: of your reasons why you would do it? You know,
20:11
Speaker 2: what are some of the outcomes that, if it worked out,
20:14
Speaker 2: might be important to you? You know, out of those outcomes,
20:19
Speaker 2: is there one that is quintessentially most significant, and why
20:24
Speaker 2: that you know, like how how how prepared and ready
20:28
Speaker 2: are you at this point to start working on that,
20:32
Speaker 2: Because just because you acknowledge that a change could be
20:36
Speaker 2: made and it might benefit me, it doesn't mean you're ready,
20:38
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you're confident, doesn't mean you're important. But
20:41
Speaker 2: when we talk about readiness, like you know, let's say
20:44
Speaker 2: it's like a five out of ten and I'm kind
20:47
Speaker 2: of like on the fence, I don't know, why did
20:50
Speaker 2: you not say a two? Right? Let's talk about the
20:53
Speaker 2: rationale between a two and a five. Let's talk about
20:57
Speaker 2: that significance if it were to move from a five
21:01
Speaker 2: to six, what might need to happen, and you know,
21:06
Speaker 2: without jumping all in, what might be an initial first
21:11
Speaker 2: step you know, and what do you think happens if
21:14
Speaker 2: you don't do it? So, just like a coaching based conversation,
21:18
Speaker 2: there's a lot in between those. I mean, coaching is
21:20
Speaker 2: not about asking better questions. It's being in response to
21:24
Speaker 2: what happens after you ask that question. But if you
21:27
Speaker 2: were going to frame it like that, I prefer to
21:29
Speaker 2: have conversations like that for a lot of reasons. One
21:33
Speaker 2: even even where I sit in the hierarchy within the organization.
21:37
Speaker 2: I'm nobody to tell somebody what to do. I'm trying
21:40
Speaker 2: to bring the best out of you and serve you right,
21:44
Speaker 2: kind of like I don't work you know, it's like
21:47
Speaker 2: you don't work for me as much as I work
21:49
Speaker 2: for you. So that's first and foremost. Second, if someone
21:53
Speaker 2: doesn't have emotional ownership and accountability over the responses, don't
21:58
Speaker 2: expect long term change telling people what to do or
22:03
Speaker 2: what their problem is. Like you said earlier, like, oh,
22:05
Speaker 2: this is like doctor Phil, maybe on an emotional level,
22:08
Speaker 2: but it was doctor Phil, we would be asking each
22:11
Speaker 2: other two or three questions. I'd figure out exactly what's
22:13
Speaker 2: wrong with you, and I tell you what to do,
22:16
Speaker 2: and that would ninety nine percent of the time do
22:20
Speaker 2: absolutely nothing but reinforce the behavior patterns that we're trying
22:24
Speaker 2: to alleviate or eliminate. So I try to handle And
22:30
Speaker 2: there's a great book called It's the Manager written by
22:33
Speaker 2: Clifton and Harder to consultants and researchers out of Gallop,
22:38
Speaker 2: and they said that seventy percent of the variance of
22:41
Speaker 2: all performance productivity in any organization is your frontline manager.
22:47
Speaker 2: So it's like, ah, my team sucks. They don't execute that.
22:50
Speaker 2: You know what, The odds are overwhelming that if you're
22:53
Speaker 2: the manager, it ain't your team mate, it's you. So
22:57
Speaker 2: and one of the recommendations that they give on how
23:01
Speaker 2: to kind of turn this around in an organization, the
23:05
Speaker 2: biggest recommendation is switch from boss to coach because I
23:09
Speaker 2: think you know, this goes back to Douglas McGregor in
23:13
Speaker 2: decades ago in the human side of enterprise, where coming
23:17
Speaker 2: out of the Industrial Revolution, it was kind of like
23:19
Speaker 2: people are lazy, they'll get away with shit if you
23:21
Speaker 2: let them. You need command, you need control, you need
23:25
Speaker 2: assembly lines and checks and balances, and you know, people
23:28
Speaker 2: are basically tools like a hammer, you know, a screwdriver.
23:31
Speaker 2: And Douglas McGregor and his research, no, people only behave
23:35
Speaker 2: like that when they don't feel that they have the tools,
23:37
Speaker 2: the agency, or the autonomy. When people feel that they're
23:41
Speaker 2: being controlled, yes they resort to that. But when people
23:45
Speaker 2: understand and internalize the purpose of their work, they feel
23:50
Speaker 2: they have the agency to perform it and the autonomy
23:53
Speaker 2: to pursue it. They seek out responsibility, they seek out growth,
23:58
Speaker 2: they seek out greater work ethic, so that that's a misconception.
24:03
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of times the way we
24:05
Speaker 2: deal with people and the assumptions that we have that
24:08
Speaker 2: bleed out onto them, that kind of creates patterns of
24:12
Speaker 2: behavior that reinforce and internalize our own false beliefs about people.
24:17
Speaker 1: Are you know, Yeah, it's so funny that the archaic
24:23
Speaker 1: thinking and operating systems of businesses, you know, not that
24:28
Speaker 1: long ago, ten twenty years ago, and maybe even some now.
24:30
Speaker 1: But I saw a wasn't a documentary, but I saw
24:35
Speaker 1: a story on a TV show over here. It was
24:38
Speaker 1: like a fifteen minute story on this tech business and
24:42
Speaker 1: then this tech startup that this guy and this lady created.
24:49
Speaker 1: People kind of work when they want, you know, and
24:52
Speaker 1: it's like, well, if you want to start at seven am, cool,
24:55
Speaker 1: If you want to start lunchtime, cool. Want to bring
24:58
Speaker 1: your dog, no worries. Want to sit on a floor
25:00
Speaker 1: in a bean bag with a laptop, yep. I want
25:02
Speaker 1: to wear bare feet, no worry, as long as you're clean.
25:05
Speaker 1: It's like there are so few rules. I mean, they've
25:09
Speaker 1: got to obviously do their job, but other than that,
25:13
Speaker 1: you know, don't punch anyone in the face, don't eat
25:15
Speaker 1: all the cookies, you know, wipe your.
25:17
Speaker 2: Feet, sucking the fine out of the work there crag.
25:24
Speaker 1: And I was watching that and I was thinking, oh
25:26
Speaker 1: my god, this is you know, it's not well, it's
25:28
Speaker 1: not actually the job I want. But if I was
25:31
Speaker 1: a computer program or a creative in that space or whatever,
25:35
Speaker 1: I'm like that that is the joint of they are
25:38
Speaker 1: the people I want to work with. That is the place.
25:40
Speaker 1: And they interviewed the staff and they're like, no, this
25:42
Speaker 1: is this is not a show for the cameras. This
25:45
Speaker 1: is this is how it is. And you know, one
25:48
Speaker 1: of the ladies was there and she had her I
25:52
Speaker 1: don't know, like an eighteen month old there where she's
25:56
Speaker 1: like I couldn't get a babysitter today or whatever, so
26:00
Speaker 1: runs like cool, just handing the kid around and you know,
26:03
Speaker 1: I have to it. And I'm like, yeah, imagine that.
26:06
Speaker 1: Imagine imagine creating a space where people really want to be.
26:12
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to work because you've got
26:14
Speaker 1: to go to work, and you've got to go to
26:16
Speaker 1: work and drive there and sit in your cubicle and
26:20
Speaker 1: look at your watch and go, oh fuck, it's nearly lunchtime.
26:23
Speaker 1: And then oh it's nearly home time, and then oh god,
26:25
Speaker 1: it's some finish, thank God, Like like genuinely they're either
26:30
Speaker 1: the best actors of all time or that. It's just
26:33
Speaker 1: they've created a culture and a physical space and a
26:37
Speaker 1: kind of a mindset that people love to be in.
26:41
Speaker 1: And since they've done that, I mean, they kind of
26:43
Speaker 1: started that way, but they expanded more their productivity, efficiency, profit,
26:48
Speaker 1: everything through the roof happiness like culture awesome. I'm like, yeah,
26:52
Speaker 1: we could all maybe depending on the business, of course,
26:56
Speaker 1: but maybe rethink some of the stuff that we've been
26:58
Speaker 1: doing traditionally.
27:01
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think the more you lay down control and
27:04
Speaker 2: infringe upon autonomy, the more you're self generating problems that
27:09
Speaker 2: you believe exists again because of some innate attributes you
27:13
Speaker 2: suspect people have. And there's been so much research on
27:17
Speaker 2: i mean, just drawing off the top of my head.
27:20
Speaker 2: Thomas Allen from MIT Gallop of course does an amazing
27:25
Speaker 2: job at compiling an extraordinary amount of high quality data.
27:29
Speaker 2: You've got Google in their own internal research on what
27:34
Speaker 2: separates our top performing teams, which is just about everyone.
27:38
Speaker 2: It's a very high pressure environment from the absolute best
27:42
Speaker 2: of the best and it comes down to the same
27:45
Speaker 2: things over and over. One psychological safety, two vulnerability three eight.
27:52
Speaker 2: An organization driven on purpose. And if you want people
27:58
Speaker 2: to work longer hours and order, don't make demands about
28:02
Speaker 2: you've got to be at your cubicle for this number
28:05
Speaker 2: of hours a day, because they'll clock in and clock
28:08
Speaker 2: out exactly when you tell them to and then they're
28:10
Speaker 2: checked out and they don't really care. People will work
28:13
Speaker 2: longer and harder when they have the freedom to autonomously
28:16
Speaker 2: decide how they engage with work. Now, of course you
28:18
Speaker 2: have meetings or if, like you know, you owned a gym,
28:21
Speaker 2: I'm a personal trainer. Yeah, you got to be here
28:23
Speaker 2: when your clients are here, so you have a shift.
28:26
Speaker 2: That makes sense. And I have mixed opinions about working
28:29
Speaker 2: remote versus working in the office. I think whenever someone
28:33
Speaker 2: says no, no, you have to be in the office,
28:35
Speaker 2: or no, all work can be done remotely, it's like,
28:38
Speaker 2: I think there's somewhere in the middle. I think we're
28:40
Speaker 2: missing a few variables. This is not this is not
28:43
Speaker 2: an open conversation. But for the for the most part,
28:48
Speaker 2: the more you try to control people, the more you
28:50
Speaker 2: get exactly what you're managing. It's just cool.
28:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also think about it's like a cobs good
28:59
Speaker 1: or bad? Well, well, for who which carbs? What situation?
29:03
Speaker 1: Are they an endurance athlete? Are they a bodybuilder? Are
29:06
Speaker 1: they a corporate dude who wants to lose a few pounds.
29:09
Speaker 1: I mean it's like a dumb question, which is like, oh,
29:12
Speaker 1: is remote better or is in the office better? Well?
29:16
Speaker 1: For who? What's the job, what's the situation, what's their role,
29:19
Speaker 1: what's their personality? Like does it give them anxiety leaving home?
29:24
Speaker 1: Does it? You know? Like I think with many of
29:27
Speaker 1: these variables and many of these kind of conversations around
29:31
Speaker 1: what is better, well, there is no single answer to
29:34
Speaker 1: that because there are too many variables. It's like, well,
29:38
Speaker 1: you know, like my job, I have not had an
29:41
Speaker 1: employer since I was twenty five years old. Well that
29:45
Speaker 1: was thirty six years ago. I haven't had an actual job.
29:48
Speaker 1: I haven't had holiday pay or sick pay for three
29:51
Speaker 1: and a half decades. I've every for the last three
29:55
Speaker 1: and a half decades. Every month I'm earning a different
29:58
Speaker 1: amount of money. There's probably no month where I earn
30:01
Speaker 1: exactly the same money. Some months are good, some months
30:04
Speaker 1: a shit some months are terrifying, some months are like amazing, right,
30:09
Speaker 1: But I would not recommend what I do to most
30:12
Speaker 1: people because most people's personality or situation would not be
30:18
Speaker 1: suited to this, or it wouldn't be suited to them, you.
30:22
Speaker 2: Know, absolutely, you know. I want to refer to a
30:25
Speaker 2: couple of past episodes on the You Project if I can.
30:28
Speaker 2: I mean for the listeners, I know you know what
30:30
Speaker 2: you were talking about. But I think our last episode,
30:33
Speaker 2: which was what eighty nineteen, Mel sent me the file.
30:37
Speaker 2: Forgive me if that's wrong, but I'm sure that was
30:39
Speaker 2: a great episode too, So go listen to that. We
30:43
Speaker 2: were talking about why do people need so much consensus
30:47
Speaker 2: and absolutely have to agree with each other. I think
30:52
Speaker 2: historically when people feel under threat and the world is
30:56
Speaker 2: changing so rapidly, people feel a level of anxiety. Or
30:58
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people I work with in
31:00
Speaker 2: multiple industries are voicing this. You kind of had to
31:06
Speaker 2: know that people in the tribe thought a certain way
31:09
Speaker 2: and behaved a certain way, like if we're going out,
31:12
Speaker 2: we're hunting some giant animal, and if somebody screws up,
31:16
Speaker 2: like someone's gonna get trampled, and none of us are
31:19
Speaker 2: gonna eat and we're gonna starve. It's like, I need
31:21
Speaker 2: to know that when we say go this way, you're
31:23
Speaker 2: gonna go this way and not go the other way.
31:26
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, if you're doing shit and
31:28
Speaker 2: saying shit in the tribe, that's just like, way out there. God,
31:32
Speaker 2: you're not predictable, You're a threat. And I think that
31:36
Speaker 2: kind of probably is embedded a little bit in our DNA.
31:40
Speaker 2: The other side of that is if we don't recognize
31:43
Speaker 2: that we're living, we don't really have the dynamic complexity
31:48
Speaker 2: and diversity of opinions and expertise that we need to
31:52
Speaker 2: innovate and move forward in an organization. And you cannot
31:57
Speaker 2: have these sound bite beliefs. Are carbs good or are
32:02
Speaker 2: they bad? Right? Should I open up my own business?
32:05
Speaker 2: Should I be an entrepreneur because entrepreneur good employee bad?
32:10
Speaker 2: Oh my god. There's a lot of context and probably
32:14
Speaker 2: biological and psychological individuality. You know. You interviewed Susan Slide,
32:19
Speaker 2: who I've known for decades, and I was on her
32:23
Speaker 2: show and my dog had just died. So I was like, Okay,
32:28
Speaker 2: I'm not going to cancel the show, but I was
32:30
Speaker 2: I was wrecked on that show, and she had said,
32:35
Speaker 2: you know, when you're getting into your own business, what's
32:40
Speaker 2: the most important thing to consider? And you know, I
32:46
Speaker 2: wasn't thinking at all, and I just responded with brutal honesty.
32:50
Speaker 2: I was like, shit, you know, it's not an inspiring answer,
32:54
Speaker 2: but know what the hell you're getting into and who
32:57
Speaker 2: you're wanting are Because there's some things I've had. I've
33:01
Speaker 2: had a few businesses, and I learned there are some
33:04
Speaker 2: things that I'm really really good at and there are
33:06
Speaker 2: some things where it's almost satirical how bad I am.
33:13
Speaker 2: It's like, if you don't have the right partners with
33:16
Speaker 2: complementary skill sets. I know, for me, like I'm capital
33:22
Speaker 2: F you know, three letters after that, it's bad. You
33:27
Speaker 2: really got to have that level of self awareness.
33:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean business partnerships in general, they're tricky,
33:37
Speaker 1: you know. And I mean I've had a few business
33:40
Speaker 1: partners and they all started out good. They didn't all
33:43
Speaker 1: end bad. In fact, none of them ended terribly. But yeah,
33:47
Speaker 1: like things change, people change, people's priorities change over time,
33:51
Speaker 1: and what what you originally had sometimes that disappears, and
33:56
Speaker 1: you know, you go, Okay, I think it's to trying
34:01
Speaker 1: to navigate the you know, the ever shifting landscape of
34:06
Speaker 1: pretty much everything. It's like, what used to work for
34:08
Speaker 1: me professionally when I was in my twenties didn't really
34:13
Speaker 1: float my boat in my thirties. You know, there was
34:16
Speaker 1: a time like you, when you were on the gym
34:18
Speaker 1: floor and you were you were working in gyms and
34:22
Speaker 1: inspiring and training and educating and selling and all that
34:25
Speaker 1: stuff that you did. And there was a time there,
34:28
Speaker 1: I'm sure where you fucking loved it and you got
34:30
Speaker 1: a sense of self worth and all the stuff. You
34:32
Speaker 1: same with me. You know the ex fat kid Now
34:36
Speaker 1: he's training people. Wow, like he's not fat anymore. No.
34:39
Speaker 1: I got self esteem and self worth and recognition and
34:41
Speaker 1: acceptance and love and this is amazing. And then five
34:45
Speaker 1: years later, yeah, this is pretty good. And then five
34:47
Speaker 1: years later, yeah, it's all right. And then eventually it's like, nah,
34:52
Speaker 1: I'm over this and it's not bad. It's just that
34:55
Speaker 1: this doesn't work for me anymore. I need to do
34:58
Speaker 1: other things, other ways. I need to learn new stuff.
35:01
Speaker 1: I need to talk to different people about different things,
35:04
Speaker 1: and I need to I need to evolve, and I can't.
35:08
Speaker 1: I've been living in this kind of box for a
35:11
Speaker 1: decade or so, and something else has to happened, now,
35:15
Speaker 1: you know.
35:17
Speaker 2: I think that's a positive sign. It's like Ralph Waldo
35:19
Speaker 2: Emerson said that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
35:23
Speaker 2: little minds. It's like, just because you've changed and you're
35:26
Speaker 2: not thinking and being the same person you are ten
35:30
Speaker 2: years ago, it's not inconsistency. I think it's it's one
35:34
Speaker 2: of the most prominent signs of interpersonal growth. Like you've done.
35:39
Speaker 2: I think when you do well, you outgrow things because
35:43
Speaker 2: as you deepen your expertise, you see more you have,
35:46
Speaker 2: you could form more distinctions, and those distinctions uncover new
35:50
Speaker 2: motivations and passions and paths, and it's beautiful. It's beautiful
35:54
Speaker 2: to see that when you're working with people or people
35:57
Speaker 2: on your team. I don't know if we see that
36:01
Speaker 2: as much with ourselves, or maybe we do it. I'm
36:03
Speaker 2: just talking shit. What do I know anyway?
36:05
Speaker 1: Not at all. I mean, this is going to sound
36:08
Speaker 1: totally cheesy, and I don't always live up to this,
36:11
Speaker 1: but I feel like when I was younger, it wasn't
36:15
Speaker 1: all about the getting. But I was a fair bit
36:17
Speaker 1: about what am I getting. I'm getting recognition, I'm getting acceptance,
36:21
Speaker 1: I'm getting money, I'm getting a bigger business, I'm getting profile.
36:26
Speaker 1: It was really I wanted to help people, but as
36:30
Speaker 1: probably we wanted to help myself the most. And then
36:33
Speaker 1: I got to a point, which a lot of people do,
36:35
Speaker 1: where I was moderately successful and you're like, well, I'm
36:39
Speaker 1: way more successful than I was in that I'm earning
36:43
Speaker 1: more dough and I'm doing all these good things and
36:45
Speaker 1: I've got a house and I own a couple of things.
36:48
Speaker 1: And you're like, yeah, but I'm not any happier. What
36:51
Speaker 1: is that about? Not necessarily one causes the other. Maybe
36:55
Speaker 1: they're disparate variables, but I think they're intertwined some how
37:00
Speaker 1: for most people. So for me, it was like the
37:02
Speaker 1: getting phase, and then it was like the who am
37:07
Speaker 1: I becoming? Phase? Not what am I getting? And then
37:10
Speaker 1: it was like the what am I giving? It's like
37:14
Speaker 1: the getting and the becoming and the giving, and they're
37:16
Speaker 1: still all intertwined somewhat. But you know, I'm I'm not
37:23
Speaker 1: even though I make okay money, I'm not driven by money.
37:27
Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't excite me. It's not my it
37:30
Speaker 1: used to be my KPI. It's not anymore. It's like, yeah,
37:33
Speaker 1: I've got to pay the bills and look after mum
37:35
Speaker 1: and dad a bit and you know, put bloody petrol
37:38
Speaker 1: in the car and all those things. But yeah, it's
37:40
Speaker 1: just it's it's things just shift. Like you're like, what
37:44
Speaker 1: is wealth kind of shifts?
37:47
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, what do you think creates that shift?
37:51
Speaker 1: Is it?
37:52
Speaker 2: Is it maturity? Is it security? Like financial or emotional?
37:57
Speaker 2: You know, I have a little bit like what drives
37:59
Speaker 2: that illution? Because it's common, not with everybody, but with
38:04
Speaker 2: a large enough amount of people that you can kind
38:06
Speaker 2: of see that trajectory. What do you think's behind it? Yeah?
38:10
Speaker 1: Good question. So I think the thing, you know, the
38:13
Speaker 1: whole lot of money doesn't make it happy. Yeah, I
38:15
Speaker 1: get that, but it kind of does if you've got
38:17
Speaker 1: no money. Yeah, people with money say that, right, But
38:21
Speaker 1: then people with no money, all of a sudden they've
38:23
Speaker 1: got money. Well, this is pretty fucking great. So, as
38:26
Speaker 1: you and I have said before, there's a there's a
38:28
Speaker 1: correlation and to a certain point, but I think beyond that. Yeah,
38:34
Speaker 1: I mean I was when I was young, I was
38:36
Speaker 1: literally I used to work six days a week in
38:40
Speaker 1: a gym and three or four nights a week in
38:42
Speaker 1: pubs getting punched in the face for twelve dollars an
38:45
Speaker 1: hour making you know, like I worked seventy eighty hours
38:48
Speaker 1: and earned not a lot of money. So I worked
38:50
Speaker 1: very hard for a long time making lot not lots
38:54
Speaker 1: of dough. So I definitely didn't come from any kind
38:57
Speaker 1: of privilege or upper class, right, I just grinded, and
39:01
Speaker 1: that's and I'm glad I did because it gave me
39:03
Speaker 1: context and awareness.
39:04
Speaker 2: Right.
39:05
Speaker 1: But then then I think, for me, when I got
39:09
Speaker 1: to a point where I went, well, now I'm comfortable
39:11
Speaker 1: and now I own things, it was just an awareness
39:15
Speaker 1: thing that this, while none of this is bad and
39:18
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for what I have, money isn't my purpose,
39:23
Speaker 1: you know. It's like, oh, this is just a tool
39:26
Speaker 1: and a resource that's pretty good to have, but it's
39:29
Speaker 1: not my reason for getting out of bed. It's not
39:32
Speaker 1: who I am. And then I think, while also at
39:38
Speaker 1: the same time, these things don't need to operate in isolation.
39:43
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, I need to try and be
39:45
Speaker 1: commercially successful or I need to be the Dali Lama,
39:49
Speaker 1: like I can have a for want of a better term,
39:54
Speaker 1: a loving, kind, spiritual component to my existence. But also
39:59
Speaker 1: be a guy who charges that company lots of day
40:03
Speaker 1: to go and talk they can afford it. I'm not
40:06
Speaker 1: bad at it. I've done it a lot. That's my
40:08
Speaker 1: commercial value in that space. This is what I'm charging,
40:11
Speaker 1: that's what you're paying me. Thanks very much, see you
40:13
Speaker 1: next time. It's all good. But also happy to talk
40:17
Speaker 1: to that person that doesn't have any dough And you know,
40:21
Speaker 1: not every person every time, of course, because there's a
40:23
Speaker 1: number of hours in a day. But you know where
40:26
Speaker 1: there are things that I've done some gigs for for
40:32
Speaker 1: organizations where they literally can't afford to pay a speaker,
40:36
Speaker 1: and I just you know, I volunteer my time and gladly,
40:40
Speaker 1: and some of those have been the best things I've
40:43
Speaker 1: ever done. Where you're driving two hours, you're talking to
40:48
Speaker 1: seventy people in a tennis club and it's like it's
40:54
Speaker 1: so not glamorous and you get paid zero dollars zero
41:00
Speaker 1: and it's fucking amazing.
41:02
Speaker 2: You know.
41:03
Speaker 1: That's that's some of the things that lock me on fire.
41:06
Speaker 2: I would love to do that. When talking about that,
41:08
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, that sounds like a fun day but
41:10
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about tennis. What am I gonna say?
41:13
Speaker 2: You know, I think I don't think money does make
41:17
Speaker 2: you happy because I know a lot of people we
41:20
Speaker 2: both do that are like obscenely wealthy. Some of them
41:25
Speaker 2: are happy as a pagan shit. Other people are just
41:28
Speaker 2: perpetually miserable. But I do believe that a lack of
41:32
Speaker 2: money definitely makes you unhappy. Now, I mean, Maslow's hierarchy
41:38
Speaker 2: of human needs is pretty flawed. I mean it was,
41:41
Speaker 2: you know, done studying a bunch of middle aged white
41:45
Speaker 2: guys in mid twentieth century US, and you know which
41:49
Speaker 2: one of the How those needs are met and how
41:52
Speaker 2: they show up is different culturally. But the idea that
41:57
Speaker 2: you know, if one need is glaring unmet, it kind
42:02
Speaker 2: of doesn't allow space for the other needs to manifest.
42:06
Speaker 2: There's some truth to that. You know. If I'm homeless
42:09
Speaker 2: and I'm starving, I'm not really thinking about my legacy.
42:12
Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about how I'm gonna connect with an
42:15
Speaker 2: audience and like contribute at my workplace. I don't have
42:18
Speaker 2: a workplace. What I'm thinking about is I need to
42:21
Speaker 2: find food. How am I going to make that happen? So, yes,
42:24
Speaker 2: it's that those kind of things, and it's not just
42:29
Speaker 2: it's not just the money. I think it's poverty on
42:34
Speaker 2: any emotional level. And I don't want to dismiss how
42:38
Speaker 2: crushing poverty is because I think it's something like ninety
42:41
Speaker 2: eight percent of anyone who grows up within a certain
42:46
Speaker 2: postal cold and within a socioeconomic status stays there. And
42:52
Speaker 2: I doubt, I doubt that ninety eight percent are just
42:56
Speaker 2: unmotivated and fucked up. So I do think resource versus
43:00
Speaker 2: available to matter way more than most people would admit.
43:05
Speaker 2: But what if I also have like an emotional level
43:09
Speaker 2: of deprivation where I don't really have confidence. I've not
43:13
Speaker 2: been out in the world. I have passions, but I
43:16
Speaker 2: don't know what I'm capable of. And then it's like, oh,
43:18
Speaker 2: you know what I do make a difference. I am
43:21
Speaker 2: making a contribution. Shit, you know this is not about me.
43:25
Speaker 2: You know I could take my focus off of me
43:28
Speaker 2: and put it increasingly on other things and other people
43:32
Speaker 2: that transcend my own immediate needs because I feel secure
43:36
Speaker 2: enough to do that.
43:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking to some We've got to wind up.
43:40
Speaker 1: But I was talking to somebody else the other day
43:41
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the fact that, you know, in
43:45
Speaker 1: a world of eight billion people, two billion people can't
43:49
Speaker 1: walk up to a tap and get some water. You know,
43:51
Speaker 1: they can't turn a tap on, get a glass of water,
43:54
Speaker 1: or fill a kettle, or you know, or have a
43:56
Speaker 1: have a shower, have a bath. You know, two billion people,
44:02
Speaker 1: you know, twenty five percent of the world's population don't
44:05
Speaker 1: have access to food whenever they want. It's probably more
44:09
Speaker 1: than that, but like there are so you know you yeah,
44:14
Speaker 1: I mean I can't talk for everyone listening to this,
44:16
Speaker 1: of course, but I for one, I just I am.
44:21
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful and also like a tiny bit guilty.
44:25
Speaker 1: It's like I was born in Australia, which is point
44:31
Speaker 1: what is it? It's like point zero three percent of
44:35
Speaker 1: the world's popular some tiny amount. It's like, statistically, to
44:40
Speaker 1: be born in Australia is one in three hundred, That's
44:43
Speaker 1: what it is, one in three hundred to be born
44:46
Speaker 1: in a place where for me, anyway, I had loving parents,
44:49
Speaker 1: I went to good schools. I never I never had
44:52
Speaker 1: to you know, there was no hardship, and I didn't
44:55
Speaker 1: deserve any of that. I didn't deserve any of it.
44:58
Speaker 1: I was just lucky. I was just lucky to have
45:02
Speaker 1: the parents I had to be born in the place
45:05
Speaker 1: I was, you know, and it's like, yeah, it's that's
45:10
Speaker 1: but like a lot of people do not, and I know,
45:14
Speaker 1: without opening a door, we don't want it. But you
45:16
Speaker 1: didn't have that, you know, you you had some struggles
45:19
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about and have spoken about but another day.
45:22
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like a lot of people start, as
45:26
Speaker 1: you said, you know, nine app percent of people who
45:29
Speaker 1: are born in a certain postcode or postal or area
45:32
Speaker 1: code as whatever you zip code as you call it
45:34
Speaker 1: over there whatever. Yeah, and that's that's just where they
45:38
Speaker 1: were born, and that's just their starting point, which is
45:41
Speaker 1: there's no fairness to any of that, got it.
45:44
Speaker 2: There's so much I want to say. I know we've
45:46
Speaker 2: got to wrap up, so I will meet I'll make
45:48
Speaker 2: this short, but yeah, you're right. I was growing up
45:50
Speaker 2: in interesting circumstances, as many people do. And you know,
45:58
Speaker 2: I was having this conversation with my boss earlier today,
46:03
Speaker 2: who's an extraordinary woman. I mean, she's probably one of
46:06
Speaker 2: the most extraordinary people I know. And I was saying,
46:10
Speaker 2: because we are working within multiple industries that are pretty
46:14
Speaker 2: shaken up right now, for a lot of different reasons.
46:17
Speaker 2: I feel so lucky and grateful that I can make
46:20
Speaker 2: a contribution that hopefully makes people's lives a little bit
46:26
Speaker 2: less painful, more resilient, and more engaging. And I'm very
46:31
Speaker 2: happy that I'm sitting where I'm sitting within the organization.
46:34
Speaker 2: But I don't feel guilty at all. I feel zero
46:37
Speaker 2: guilt that other people can't get water. And you know,
46:41
Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to be born into the United States,
46:43
Speaker 2: because you cannot help anyone who's suffering by suffering with
46:50
Speaker 2: them at their depth. Like, I think the person who
46:53
Speaker 2: started turning my life around was Mitch Mitchell Pacifico, the
46:57
Speaker 2: owner of Gold gym aj If Mitch didn't have a gym,
47:01
Speaker 2: and like I don't know, he was serving time at
47:03
Speaker 2: the moment and his life was horrible, would have never
47:06
Speaker 2: impacted me, So my life would have been dramatically different.
47:12
Speaker 2: He was in a position to help me, and he
47:14
Speaker 2: was willing. And I think you know it, Emmon's and McCullough,
47:21
Speaker 2: they've done some great research on gratitude. But I think
47:26
Speaker 2: when it tying it back to what you said about
47:28
Speaker 2: rapport earlier, one of the most powerful mechanisms of gratitude
47:32
Speaker 2: is when you're feeling it, you express it. And what
47:35
Speaker 2: that does for people and how they react to you
47:39
Speaker 2: and what that does for social bonds and ties is beautiful.
47:46
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of it is transcendent. So
47:49
Speaker 2: it's like I've been working on living just for today
47:53
Speaker 2: because I'm a very anxious person. I'm always thinking about
47:56
Speaker 2: the future and looking back in the past, which can
48:00
Speaker 2: be constructive, but too much of that not at all.
48:03
Speaker 2: And it's like, Okay, what can I do today? I
48:05
Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but we've got
48:09
Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand people that are depending on us today.
48:11
Speaker 2: What can I do just to contribute and move the
48:15
Speaker 2: needle today? And you know, it's keeping me, it's keeping
48:20
Speaker 2: me kind of focused.
48:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're doing a good job. I mean, you
48:25
Speaker 1: know you're doing a good job. Despite that feedback from
48:28
Speaker 1: Craig Harper.
48:29
Speaker 2: A year ago, Thank you, mate, so weird. I appreciate that,
48:33
Speaker 2: and I appreciate the commenter year ago.
48:36
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy. You look after your mate. And I think
48:40
Speaker 1: we're skipping next week because we're both inter state or
48:43
Speaker 1: we're both doing stuff.
48:44
Speaker 2: But I'll see you see.
48:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll talk soon.
48:50
Speaker 2: Bye everybody, Bye Craig,