Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #361: Steven Sanchez-Univ of Delaware | From the Bronx to Building a Coaching Mindset

Transcript

#361: Steven Sanchez-Univ of Delaware | From the Bronx to Building a Coaching Mindset · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:00
Hey guys, thanks for being here today.
0:02
Real quick before we get on with today's amazing guest that
0:05
you're going to absolutely love. I'm so glad you're going to be
0:07
able to hear their story. Want to make sure that you knew
0:09
something a sale that we're doing for our throws coaches for
0:12
the month of April and May. We've got to buy one, get one
0:15
free sale on some discuses, shots and hammers.
0:18
Head on over to gilathletics.com to find out the specifics for
0:21
those hammers, those shots and those discuses.
0:24
But get call your preferred Gil dealer.
0:26
They have all the details as well, but it's only April and
0:29
May. Then it's over.
0:30
There's no more. So make sure you're taking
0:32
advantage of this. Now let's get on with the show.
0:35
You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
0:38
with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
0:45
in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
0:49
extraordinary message for Gil Athletics Connections.
0:55
You're back here on the Gill Connections podcast.
0:58
Hey guys. I every once in a while I like
0:59
to remind if you're a regular listener, if this is your first
1:02
time, that music that you just heard and with that small
1:05
snippet of of some of the lyrics that actually the full song of
1:09
that plays at the end of this podcast.
1:11
And I just have to get to give a shout out to one of our own, one
1:14
of our own track and field coaches, Udon Cheek actually
1:16
created that for us. Soup to nuts.
1:18
He did the whole thing, the lyrics, the the beat, the jam,
1:21
the whole night. He's an amazing creative artist
1:24
and just so grateful that he would contribute to our podcast
1:27
in such meaningful ways. And so just want to give a shout
1:29
out to who Don Cheek for that song, for our title song here.
1:32
And just grateful for that. Thanks for pressing play today.
1:34
My name is Mike Cunningham. I am your host here for the
1:37
Guilt Connections podcast, the podcast that goes out.
1:40
Our mission is to uplift and honor coaches from around the
1:43
country, sometimes around the world.
1:45
And today we've got a fun one. I've known this guy for a while.
1:48
We're not boys, right? You know, boys like with AZ,
1:51
we're not there yet, but we're certainly not strangers.
1:54
And I'm super excited to learn more about his story.
1:57
So help me welcome from the great University of Delaware the
1:59
wise, the wonderful Mr. Stephen Sanchez.
2:02
Steve, welcome to the show, my friend.
2:03
Hey. Glad to be here.
2:05
Absolutely. Remind me, University of
2:07
Delaware, it's the it's not the Mud Hens that's like a Toledo
2:11
baseball. It's the Blue Hens.
2:12
Is that correct? The.
2:14
Fighting Blue Hens. The fighting Blue Hens.
2:17
OK, That, that's right. That's part of it is the
2:19
fighting because, you know, a regular Blue hen, just to hold a
2:23
candle, you need one that understands how to fight.
2:25
Yeah. OK.
2:26
There's a whole back story to that actually I just learned
2:30
about a couple weeks ago, so. I love logos, slogans, mascots.
2:35
Tell me, what's the back story? So, OK, so I think it was the
2:38
Revolutionary War. They used to have, you know,
2:43
rooster fights pretty much as entertainment during that time.
2:46
And I guess it was like pre 19 of seasons, pre 1743 when the
2:51
school was founded. Oh wow, and.
2:53
So pretty much whoever won with it between the battalions or,
2:56
you know, the, the different, you know, groups within the
3:00
military, the, the trophy was called the, the Blue hen was,
3:04
was called the Blue Hen Trophy. And so, you know, obviously hens
3:07
don't fight. So they brought in that fighting
3:09
part and, you know, conjoined it together and made the fight in
3:12
Blue Hens as our as our mascot. I I love how you said obviously
3:16
hens don't fight. I was like, really?
3:18
I don't think I knew. I just, I don't know if they all
3:20
fight right. Roosters, I guess fight right.
3:22
Is that what it is that because yeah, OK, all right.
3:24
And hen is a female chicken or rooster.
3:27
I don't know the difference. OK, I got it.
3:30
So it's kind of a, is it kind of an oxymoron then fighting Blue
3:34
Hen is that? I guess, you know, I guess, I
3:37
mean, I guess we didn't want to kind of bite off of all the
3:39
other, you know, like gay cocks and all that stuff.
3:42
I I like it. I think our mascots also, we
3:44
actually have blue hens that come to our our football games
3:48
and they set out by the by the end zone.
3:50
So they're actually blue for those that don't know they're.
3:53
Like legit like blue blue. Yeah, like they're blue.
3:55
Like, I mean, not all, but like on their legs you'll see the
3:58
blue. And yeah, no, it's pretty.
4:01
It's pretty cool. Yeah, cool.
4:02
I I do like unique mascots. You know, my high school, we
4:06
were tigers. That is the number one,
4:08
literally the number one for high school.
4:10
The most common mascot is a tiger.
4:12
So that's no uniqueness there. And then I go to college, I go
4:15
to Troy University and where the Trojans, again, not that unique.
4:19
There are a lot of Trojans in this world for for school teams
4:23
and sports teams fighting Blue Hens.
4:26
I think that's the only one. I can't even think of another
4:28
Blue Hen. I do like the, what is it, the
4:31
Coastal Carolina University, South Carolina?
4:33
I like the bird rooster kind of vibe because it's unique.
4:37
That's what I like. I just like the uniqueness side
4:39
of it. Yeah.
4:40
No, no, it's definitely pretty cool, you know, because it
4:43
definitely is always a conversation starter with roots.
4:46
Right. Yeah.
4:47
Like, hey, don't, don't, you know, don't don't forget, you
4:50
know, we're called the fight in Blue Hands.
4:51
You know, we still have, you know, some some, yeah, that's
4:54
associated with the name and all that stuff.
4:55
You know, yeah. And you definitely stick out,
4:57
right. It's like what?
4:57
What coach called me, he was the Blue Hen.
4:59
Like, you know, the Tigers. Well, you got a there's 1000
5:02
that could have called you from that.
5:03
But the Blue Hens, there's only one calling you from the fight
5:06
in Blue Hens. I love that.
5:07
That's really cool. Well, Steven, thanks.
5:09
Around history. I do.
5:10
I really do like mascots. One of my favorite trivia
5:12
questions, we've done this 100 times, is name the college
5:15
mascots that don't end in S Think about Fighting Blue Hens,
5:19
right? They all South Carolina
5:21
Gamecocks, Coastal Carolina Chanticleers, right?
5:25
They all end with this, but there's like 10 plus.
5:28
Yeah, I was going to see. I was, I was going to not get
5:30
into it, but then I was going to challenge you to name three
5:31
Fighting Irish. Can you name two more?
5:40
Actually Saint John's Red Storm or do they use Johnny's?
5:43
Nice. The Red Storm.
5:45
That's right. That's two.
5:47
And then I'll give you a hint, if you remember where we're
5:49
located, Do you know where we're located at?
5:53
We're in Champaign, IL. Oh, I love yeah, Illinois.
5:58
Fighting the line. I That's right.
5:59
Exactly. Then you have the Crimson Tide,
6:02
Alabama, the Greenway from Tulane.
6:05
There's actually a couple, I think some Harvard, some
6:07
Harvard. Some Ivy Leagues are like the
6:08
Harvard Crimson. Oh, Stanford, the Cardinal, not
6:12
the Cardinals. So there's several out there.
6:15
Yeah. Yeah.
6:15
It's my favorite trivia question in the whole world.
6:17
I love it. That's a good one.
6:18
I did not know it was it was Cardinal.
6:20
Yeah, it's a common, I'm sure all those little, you know, nose
6:23
in the air Stanford alums are like, no, it's the Cardinal.
6:26
It's like, whatever, dude, just be glad we're talking about you.
6:29
Relax, relax. Oh, the other one, other one of
6:32
my favorite ones, Tulsa Golden Hurricane.
6:34
My favorite for that is because they're in freaking Oklahoma and
6:36
they're the hurricane. Why in the world there's no
6:39
hurricanes happening in Oklahoma?
6:41
They should be the they should be like the Golden tornado.
6:44
Maybe that's what they should be.
6:46
Steven, that's enough silliness. Let's get into your story, my
6:50
friend. I'm super excited to learn more
6:52
about you as we get into our way back machine.
6:54
Why don't we start with, you know, assuming you were an
6:57
athlete and boy, that's we never want to assume it's not a
7:00
prerequisite to become a track coach.
7:02
Where in the world does track and field start for you?
7:06
So I pretty much got a late start and and into throwing.
7:09
I mean, I did throw in middle school, but it was more like,
7:13
you know what you call those like field days.
7:15
You know, we we just took softball, whatever and try to
7:18
chop for it, you know, and, and all that.
7:20
So when I was the first time I even like I ever did anything
7:23
remotely close to track, I wanted to be a football guy.
7:27
This kind of shows my age, right?
7:28
So I wanted to be a full back in the NFL that I I felt like that
7:32
was my calling. I want I knew I wasn't going to
7:34
be tall and I was like, OK, I'm going to be a full back and I
7:37
know that that position was going to be non existent, right
7:39
so. Wow, yeah.
7:41
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, just, you
7:44
know, growing up, you know, as a kid in New York City, like, you
7:47
know, you want to play football, you want to play basketball.
7:48
I wasn't very good at basketball, but yeah, no, I just
7:53
wanted to play football. I went to a high school to add a
7:55
really good football program, won five city titles, you know,
7:59
before I got there. And, you know, there was a bunch
8:02
of guys, you know, I went power forward for for football and and
8:06
you know, yeah, no, I mean, I was, I was all football until I
8:10
got hurt. And then I was like, OK, let me
8:12
kind of shift gears here because I don't think I don't think I'll
8:14
want to do that in college and did.
8:16
You say, did you grew up in New York City or New York State?
8:19
New York City, so I grew up in the Bronx, is.
8:21
That right, I know little to nothing about New York City.
8:25
So when you talk about Bronx, Long Island, whatever the other
8:30
thousands of bureaus, boroughs or whatever, I don't even think
8:33
I've been to New York City, to be real frank with you.
8:36
So everything I know is from TV, which is that's terrible.
8:39
So you grew up in the Bronx. So when you say like, OK, TV
8:42
tells me, you correct me here, Steven, that New York City
8:46
schools are like you're in the city.
8:49
So it's a built. They're they're not what I would
8:51
call what I would say is a traditional campus.
8:53
I mean, they're, oh, there's a football field and there's
8:55
athletics and, you know, there's a parking lot.
8:58
Is that right? Wrong for your experience
9:01
anyway. So, so I went to one of the
9:03
biggest schools in New York State.
9:05
So we had roughly about, so we had about 5 schools when I when
9:08
I went there within a ten floor building, but it was a
9:13
traditional campus. You say 5 schools, what do you
9:17
mean? But they're like 5 different
9:18
high schools. Yeah, so like the first.
9:20
Floor, shut up. No way.
9:21
Yeah, the first floor, 4 floors, was my high school, John F
9:24
Kennedy High School. Then each floor after that was a
9:28
separate high school. And then there was a separate
9:30
science building that we all used together.
9:32
And then I think it was like another building.
9:35
I can't remember at the top. I don't know what it was for.
9:37
I don't think we ever really went up there.
9:40
But no, I mean, my school was humongous.
9:41
I mean, the Hudson, the Hudson River went through it.
9:45
What? What do you mean?
9:47
I can't even concept that. No way.
9:51
Wait, wait, hold on. This blows my mind because I,
9:53
you know, I went to high school in little.
9:55
We didn't even have 8000 people in my town, Alabama.
9:57
So this is boggling to me. OK, there is this big building
10:01
in New York City with the Hudson River runs through the train,
10:03
runs through it. The first four floors was John F
10:06
Kennedy High School, and then let's say the fifth floor was
10:11
somebody else high school and 6th floor was.
10:13
So you guys would come into the like two or three different high
10:17
school kids would walk into the same building.
10:19
Some would go to 6th floor, you would go to the third floor.
10:21
That's crazy. OK, when you say the largest
10:25
like So what was your graduating class?
10:28
That's the funny part, though. So we actually what was one of
10:31
the worst? Well, it just to back up on it
10:34
was actually one of the best schools back in the 70s and 80s.
10:37
I think they said like we would send like 10 students every year
10:40
to an Ivy League school. Then they opened up so it was
10:44
just only the Bronx for students.
10:46
And then they opened up to to Harlem and Manhattan and other
10:48
people like Yonkers, like the tip of Yonkers.
10:51
And it started to kind of, you know, go a different direction.
10:55
So like I think I started with maybe 1000 people, you know,
10:59
from my freshman class. I maybe graduated with like 60.
11:04
Wait, I'm sorry, my headphones obviously disconnected there.
11:07
You did not say 60. I did say 6 zero, yeah.
11:12
So the reason why I always ask what the graduation class is, is
11:15
because I know freshman classes are always bigger.
11:17
Like they there is attrition people for many, many reasons,
11:20
right? So if someone like I graduated
11:21
with like 125, so I'm like, oh, we had about 600.
11:24
So not you can't just take 4 * 125.
11:26
It's like, oh, there were more people and they dropped out.
11:29
You said 1000 as a freshman. So in my head I was like, oh,
11:32
maybe 807 hundred. And then I was like, well, he's
11:35
kind of hinting that it wasn't that great.
11:36
So maybe 500. That would be huge. 500 you
11:40
started with 1000 freshmen and graduated 60 people.
11:47
Yeah, that's why the school is no longer.
11:49
I mean I was the second to last graduating class.
11:52
That's great. Yeah, OK, that makes some sense
11:54
there too. That's crazy, dude.
11:58
Like every, gosh, every day someone you had to be like, Oh
12:00
my boy, Tommy, he's gone. He's not showing back.
12:02
Oh, Lisa, she's not here. Like every day someone would go
12:05
missing up, you know? Now mind you, we had a separate
12:10
graduation for summer school as well.
12:12
So there was a good number of people that were in that one and
12:14
that when I say good number, maybe another 6078.
12:17
Yeah. I was like, I didn't expect you
12:18
to say you'll. That's where 600 of work.
12:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did you do sports?
12:22
So you're you're in this big tall what in my head, what I
12:24
picture in New York City. So you're in this big tall
12:26
building. How did you like, where do you
12:28
go to practice football? Where do you go to practice
12:30
track? What do you how you doing that?
12:32
So we, we had, I mean that that's why I think our school
12:35
was so good in sports. I mean, you know, we, we had a
12:38
full track. We had a full we I think at the
12:40
time pre to when I got there, we had the only turf field in the
12:45
city for high school. So we had a great turf.
12:48
I mean I still got the the turf burns obviously from that.
12:50
But great, great football, football stadium not you know,
12:55
relative to to the size of people so.
12:57
So like just right outside the building or something 100 feet
13:01
away. So like this big city building,
13:03
and then there's a football field and track and baseball.
13:07
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, tennis courts, handball
13:09
courts, you know, we, we have, we, we.
13:13
So here, Are you ready for this one?
13:14
We, I believe we have three different gymnastic courts or
13:18
gymnastic gyms within within the first floor.
13:22
Like for gymnastics, like, yeah, like the pummel horse and.
13:26
We had two people qualify for the Olympic trials while in high
13:29
school. That's great.
13:31
That is so for for me anyway. I'm sure someone's listening to
13:34
going. Yeah, that's what my high school
13:36
that that blows my mind. Dude.
13:37
I can't even fathom a high school like that for those
13:41
facilities. This is this is boggling to me.
13:44
Did those other high schools use that same facility or was that
13:47
only JFK's facilities? Yeah.
13:50
So we all pretty much partnered up and then we represent
13:53
Kennedy, Kennedy campus. Yeah, OK.
13:55
That that makes OK. That's that makes some more
13:58
sense here. OK.
13:59
All right. So you're a football guy first
14:01
as your your your first love when you're in high school.
14:05
You mentioned getting injured and then saying, man, maybe I
14:07
need to look at track. How did that like, when did that
14:09
happen? Sophomore, junior, senior year?
14:10
When did that happen? So, so yes, I was, I, I met a
14:14
coach pretty much when I was when I got started with track
14:17
and field. Like I really started around my
14:18
sophomore year, but I think I did like two or three mates, you
14:22
know, my junior got a little more serious with with track,
14:24
but I was still in the forefront of like, I want to be football,
14:27
you know, you know, just I guess I don't want to say like the
14:29
wrong minded, but you know, I was like more football and I was
14:32
like, OK, that's the route I want to go.
14:35
But you know, I got injured going into my senior year in
14:40
fall camp and I just yeah, I couldn't get going, you know, as
14:45
my last year I was like, you know what, I think I'm going to
14:48
go full-fledged into into track just to kind of back up a little
14:51
bit. I have met Jean Joseph Roman.
14:54
He was the Armory clinician at the time.
14:57
You know, he, he one thing, you know, God rest.
14:59
So he passed away a few years ago.
15:02
But one thing I always appreciate, appreciate about.
15:04
He was extremely honest with me and he told me straight up like,
15:07
hey, Steve, you're, you're not, you know, the best athlete,
15:10
you're not tall. You need to focus on throwing.
15:13
You know, you need, you know, and, and, and don't think you're
15:15
going to be this great thrower. He said I, you know, if you want
15:19
to stay in the sport, coach, you know, and, and do that.
15:22
And so I, I took that, you know, when he told me that and I was
15:25
like, OK, I. In high school, he told you
15:27
this. Yes, he told me he pulled me to
15:29
the side. It was I was not having a great
15:31
day throwing. He just pulled me to the side
15:33
and he said, Steve, I'm going to be honest with you.
15:36
You need to focus on throwing. He's like, you know, you, you,
15:39
if you want to stay in a sport coach, you know, you see me
15:41
here, I'm having fun, right? Like, but you need to start
15:44
focusing on on what actually you're good at.
15:46
What did you think about this is always amazing to me like
15:50
because we have a little bit of a spoiler, right?
15:51
Like, oh, you become a track coach.
15:53
Like we all we know the end game.
15:54
At least you know, today's game, you become a track coach.
15:56
But as a 161718 year old kid, most of us, I, I would say 98%
16:04
of all the guests we've had did not think they were going to be
16:07
a track coach in high school. Either something happened in
16:10
college or beyond. Now some of us, and it's out of
16:14
those other 2% that knew they were, they wanted to be a track
16:16
coach in high school, probably 80% of them were track coach
16:22
kids. So like, well, I had that right
16:24
in front of me. Do you see that?
16:25
You know, what do you see this thing?
16:27
Did you see that up there? Can you see that?
16:31
It's a little duck. OK, yeah.
16:35
Here's the the shenanigans that are going around here.
16:38
I'm sorry to push this to the to the forefront here.
16:41
I've got teammates. I don't know if you can see that
16:43
now. Yesterday was April Fool.
16:45
We're recording this on April 2nd, yesterday's April Fools.
16:49
One of my teammates, I, I think it's a couple of them have
16:51
bought, they must about a million of these little ducks.
16:54
If you're, if you're listening on the podcast, you got to go
16:56
over to YouTube and see what I'm talking about here, this little
16:58
duck. And I'm telling you what, What?
17:00
Look at this, Stephen. Look, Michael here, hold on,
17:04
hold on, Stephen. Now this isn't even they are all
17:22
over the factory. I walked in yesterday.
17:27
They are in the customer service on the the cubicle things.
17:30
They are on our signage there. We have this old vintage hurdle
17:33
from Harry Gilway back in the day and and so I'm fine.
17:37
I did literally did not see that until as we're just there
17:39
talking and I'm sorry to be distracted, Steven.
17:40
I apologize, but I was like, what freaking they're God.
17:42
They're all over the place. I swear to God.
17:45
Sorry. Yeah.
17:47
You know, I do love teammates that can be whimsical and have
17:49
fun. You know, I I don't want stuffy
17:51
environments. I do love that our teammates do
17:53
that and have the freedom and to to do things like that.
17:56
Just have fun. Back to you, Steven.
18:00
Sorry for the duck interlude. They're going to they're going
18:03
to crack up that this made the podcast.
18:06
Where in the heck was I? OK, so I'm curious as a 1617, so
18:11
your senior year, this is probably 17 ish, 18 years old, a
18:14
guy, a mentor, if you will. You might not even have called
18:17
him that necessarily back then says, hey, let me give you some
18:20
hard truths here. You're not going to the NFL,
18:23
you're not going to college for football.
18:26
You know what, there's some limitations.
18:28
He might have said a little harsher than I did.
18:29
So that's why I'm kind of bringing it down.
18:30
There might be some limitations for you to be great at throwing,
18:34
but if you like the sport, you should be a coach.
18:36
What when he said that to you, what does a 17 year old Stephen
18:42
franchise Steven Sanchez think? Does he think like let's who the
18:45
track that's crazy or like I'm going to become a doctor?
18:47
What are you talking about? Or do you go or did it or was
18:50
like a light open up of like, Oh my God, yeah, that is what
18:53
somewhere in between what? What did you think of as a 17
18:56
ish year old kid? Well, I wanted to coach since
18:59
since I was younger. Oh, really?
19:01
Yeah, like, so, you know, one of the main reasons I wanted a
19:04
coach is I wanted to be a part of something and I wanted, you
19:07
know, I want something to be successful because of the
19:09
decisions I've made, you know, not in a controlling manner, but
19:12
just I always feel like the coach, the coach has a strong
19:15
influence on the outcome. So I was like, OK, I don't
19:18
remember. I do remember the moment.
19:20
I just don't remember when that moment was.
19:22
I remember my dad taking me to the movies and we went to go
19:25
watch We Are Marshall and I, I didn't realize it was a movie
19:30
movie, you know, I was young or but I was like, man, Matthew
19:33
McConaughey is having so much fun coaching right now.
19:36
I was like, I would love to do that, you know, because he was
19:39
just having so much fun and you know, obviously he was, he was
19:41
trying to be positive within that tragedy and all that.
19:43
Stuff I was. Like if that's what coaching is,
19:46
I want to do that. Any family members, coaches or
19:49
teacher you know teaching is just coaching in a classroom and
19:52
vice versa, coaching is just teaching on a track or football
19:54
field. Any family members, teachers,
19:56
coaches? No, I'm I'm the first person to
19:59
attend college, so in my family. Yeah, pretty.
20:02
Much My family, yeah. The only coaching, obviously, is
20:04
parenting. Yeah, Yeah, that's absolutely
20:07
we, we know that from our own coaching, right?
20:09
Absolutely. So when he said that was it.
20:13
So that's great context. I appreciate that.
20:15
Was it more of like affirmation of like, oh, 'cause this guy was
20:20
a big guy and you're like, like you're like, man, he's having
20:21
fun. He's, you know, he's coaching
20:23
me, things like that. Was it more of like affirmation
20:25
of like, oh, someone else, 'cause it's, it's one thing for
20:27
us to think it. And even something like
20:29
coaching, which is not hard to get into, it could still feel,
20:32
especially for a 17 year old kid, hard like, how do I even
20:35
get into coach, You know, like that, That's me hear someone
20:39
saying, hey, I've done it, I do it.
20:40
I think you could do it. So was it more affirmation or,
20:43
or was it just another like, Yep, that's that.
20:45
That was always been the plan, coach.
20:48
I don't think he knew what he did in that moment.
20:50
Like at that time I was very like gung ho.
20:54
Like I was like, OK, like, I mean, I mean, I still want to,
20:57
you know, be professional, right or something not getting any
21:00
young athlete wants to be. But like I was looking at every
21:04
school in the country like to see, OK, what have what has been
21:08
the path of the coaches? And so like back then all I
21:12
would see all these BIOS were that coaches were going to USATF
21:17
level ones and level twos and level threes.
21:19
And, and you know, back then a lot of level threes were very
21:23
high, high coaches. Super hard that's.
21:25
The route I need to go right? OK, so.
21:28
As a high schooler, you're doing this.
21:30
As a high schooler, I was thinking about this when I got
21:31
no. No, that's what I'm saying.
21:32
You're you're doing the research.
21:34
Yeah. What what year did you graduate
21:35
high school? Just for time record. 20100.
21:38
Yeah, you're such a young man, so there's some Internet there.
21:40
So you're you're you're Googling.
21:41
What's this coach to? Oh, look at their bike.
21:43
OK, they're back. They did this.
21:44
All right, check. Write down the mental note.
21:46
I'm going to go do that. That's int.
21:49
So yeah, you are. I mean, you're on the path to be
21:53
a coach then, because you're already thinking like, you're
21:55
not even like, oh, I want to make sure I throw in college.
21:57
You're already before college going.
21:58
All right, So what are the things I need to do?
22:00
Become a coach? And you're doing it.
22:02
And it's one thing to say it, I love this.
22:04
This is unique. I haven't heard this.
22:06
I love the research. Like you're like, OK, well, let
22:08
me go see what other coaches have done to go read their BIOS.
22:11
That's cool. Did you as stay in high school
22:17
for me still here because you're 2010.
22:19
So you do have the Internet, not great Internet like it is today
22:22
necessarily. Are you like, I mean, YouTube's
22:27
in its infancy really still at this point.
22:29
Are you like searching like shot?
22:31
I assume you were shot put in discus, shot put technique.
22:35
Like are you, are you just listen to the coach and what
22:38
they tell you or are you actually like, let me go look at
22:41
for books, let me go look for videos, things like that?
22:45
So no, I really get into the books until until I got born to
22:48
college, you know, I can kind of get into that.
22:51
When I did my level 2, that's when I really did a deep dive
22:54
into the books. Yeah, it was more so just, I
22:58
guess compilations was a really big thing back then since I was
23:00
watching more of the compilations.
23:02
But, you know, but, but, but coach, Coach Joe, you know,
23:05
Coach Joe's Gene Roman, he was always like, don't watch those
23:10
guys. You know, don't watch them
23:11
because, I mean, they're so they're so damn strong.
23:13
They can get away with the things, you know, that you don't
23:15
know what to do because this was that time around with with Adam
23:19
Nelson and the High. Yeah.
23:20
And Adam Reeves. Yeah.
23:22
So I was like, yeah, I can't do that.
23:23
So, you know, he was always telling me about, you know, who
23:26
to watch and you know, saying like, hey, like watch your team
23:28
mates, you know, because I had some really good team mates that
23:30
I trained with, with with him, you know, and I was learning
23:33
from them. You know, I have obviously my
23:36
limitations because I'm not a very tall guy, but you know, I
23:39
was able to learn from from just watching people and
23:42
interactions. OK, senior year it's full blown
23:45
track and field. Now the football with injuries
23:48
and things like that is gone to the sideline.
23:50
Tell me about what you're thinking about colleges and how
23:53
you, you know, that process went.
23:55
And then as you start that, that story, well, you already know
23:59
you're going to be a coach. So what are you already
24:00
thinking? You're going to be a coach.
24:01
You don't know that until you're there.
24:03
What are you thinking about majoring in?
24:05
Is is you might have changed five times, you know, the
24:07
average is like 3 or something, which is crazy.
24:09
But you might have started with something.
24:11
What were you thinking about majoring in?
24:12
And then tell us about the college, getting to college
24:15
experience, where you looked at and why all that stuff?
24:18
OK, so yeah, so pretty much with with looking for colleges, I
24:22
only got recruited by one school, City College in New
24:25
York, you know, and I'm really good friends with with the head
24:28
coach. Well, the previous head coach,
24:30
he's now the head coach at Medgar Evers, Hugh Reid.
24:34
And so yeah, he was the only person I'm a coach Mark Hurst,
24:37
you know, they recruited me and you know, I was definitely
24:40
looking at the school. I was looking more, you know,
24:43
obviously getting into coaching and so the right I thought was
24:46
going into education and kind of working from high school up, you
24:49
know, and you know, the school, the school doesn't didn't really
24:53
offer that type of major was I think the only thing they
24:56
offered was I think it was like special education.
24:59
And at that time I don't think I was thinking of going that route
25:01
to to coach. So it never materialized both.
25:04
But one thing that they did that was really awesome, You know,
25:08
they point me, they pointed me in the direction of going to
25:11
Community College. So I went to Bronx Community
25:13
College. Yeah.
25:14
So that was that was my start. I'm sorry, no team there, no.
25:19
No, now there's not a team, but there was a team back.
25:21
There, OK. Yeah, yeah, I only know it does
25:23
not have any team. OK, So you'd go to Bronx CC to
25:26
to actually compete. So you're competing.
25:28
Yep. OK.
25:29
So no, so I got, I got red shirted my first year, which I
25:32
appreciate because it it definitely helped me later.
25:35
You know, I was there with Coach Ed and Coach Monica Stevens and
25:39
yeah, they, they, they red shirted me, you know, so I can
25:41
get kind of, you know, obviously the size and the strength
25:45
because I, when I left college, I was probably $1.90.
25:48
So not, not very. She was not college, she was
25:51
high school, you know, So I'm not what I needed to be.
25:53
You. Know my size but yeah so you
25:57
know after that year I kind of got big headed and I I try I
26:01
transferred to another school but which I'm still very
26:04
grateful I went to that school too because I met a great coach
26:06
there and you know I met 2 teammates that I'm still in
26:09
contact with 15 years later where where was I?
26:11
I went to ASA College in Brooklyn, so that school is.
26:15
Does a New York City kid know any school outside of New York
26:18
City? And, and I mean that not just
26:20
because of the two stories you're telling me there, but
26:22
it's like, I just think about like, because New York City just
26:24
feels like its own world. It's like, man, we got
26:27
everything right here. Why do we need to look out
26:28
outside? I mean, I know they do, but it's
26:30
just funny to me. Yeah.
26:31
OK. No, I mean, most New Yorkers
26:34
and, and I'll kind of get into that part too, like we try to
26:36
get out the city, try to try to get out the state, honestly.
26:39
Really. Yeah, we, you know, like it's,
26:42
it's very rare that you'll see somebody that goes to college
26:44
that that will stay within the state, especially for track.
26:47
If you see most like the the high end track and field
26:50
athletes, they're they're not staying in the state.
26:54
So you transfer to the Southern Community College, which you
26:57
broke. They dissolved eventually, but
27:01
you compete. So now you compete because you
27:02
already had your red shirt here. Yep, Yep.
27:04
So I competed and you know, I had a decent, decent year, you
27:08
know, for relative to me, but I knew I was like, OK, you know, I
27:11
don't want I don't think I want to stay another year.
27:13
I want to come and get into that four year route.
27:15
And you know, my coach was helping me, you know, kind of
27:19
look at the places he wanted to kind of stay kind of local
27:21
because it'll fit more of me and kind of go more D3.
27:24
I had, you know, this, I want to say wrong set, wrong mindset of
27:30
I had to be a scholarship athlete when I really wasn't at
27:32
the time. So I was looking for whatever
27:34
opportunity where I can find a scholarship and I'll never
27:37
forget it. So I was the year before, it was
27:40
in the fall, I was watching the football playoffs, OK, And I see
27:47
Wofford playing in the football playoffs.
27:50
I'm like, huh? It's like, where the heck is
27:52
Wofford? You never heard Ryan say you
27:53
never heard of Wofford. Right.
27:54
I'm like, man, they're kicking butt.
27:55
They're running the triple option.
27:56
They're they're, they're doing some things, you know, like I
27:59
love the triple option. I'm a big football guy.
28:01
Like I love triple. Option, of course, Mr. Fullback.
28:03
Yeah, of course you. Do right, like like my my team
28:06
is army, you know, like I only support the teams have won
28:09
triple option pretty much right. But yes, I'm seeing them and
28:12
they're I forgot who they were playing, but I was like they're
28:14
kicking butt. I was like, you know, who is the
28:16
school? I'm looking on my phone.
28:17
It's like, oh, South Carolina. I wouldn't mind going there
28:19
because I want to go. I want to be down South Texas or
28:22
California. That was mine.
28:24
That's where I wanted to be at. Yeah, what weather I assume?
28:27
Weather just I wanted, I, I knew I had already connections to the
28:31
Northeast. I wanted to get out.
28:33
I just wanted to get somewhere away, you know, somewhere where
28:35
I didn't know, you know, my coach was, you know, he was
28:39
funny. He was like, he was like,
28:40
really? He's like South Carolina's like,
28:42
yeah. He's like most people want to
28:43
stay within 4 hours. You're trying to get outside of
28:45
four hours. And I was like, yeah, I'm trying
28:47
to go as far as possible. But I do 40 hours, I'm out.
28:52
Excuse me, but yeah, so, so I'm, I'm looking up Wofford and I'm
28:55
like, OK, this is a really, you know, academically inclined
28:57
institution, so I probably couldn't go there at that time.
29:01
So I started looking around because I was like, OK, I'm not
29:03
familiar with the area. That's where I found limestone.
29:05
That's what I ended up going to. You went to Limestone.
29:10
Interesting. You know what I find really
29:12
interesting about that? You found Wofford because you're
29:15
watching the playoffs, the football playoffs.
29:18
Who was it? High point, just one, you know,
29:23
the first round or whatever it was of the basketball
29:25
championships and they said they got in, you know, high points, a
29:27
very small school, beautiful school, but small school.
29:30
They got like the very next day, like 19,000 inquiries about
29:34
campus tours. I know there's people that push
29:37
back on athletics and how much we spend on athletic.
29:39
And I'm talking about top to bottom Nick Saban's salary all
29:44
the way down to Bronx community colleges budgets, right?
29:48
That's a pretty big one. But it does bring up the entire
29:55
campus, whether it's two year campus, four year school.
29:58
D3D2D1 Someone long ago rightly said athletics is the front
30:04
porch of the university and boy, it's hard to argue against that.
30:08
You there's no way you know about Wofford if they don't make
30:11
that playoffs and you're paying attention to football that
30:14
there's no way I. Agree.
30:16
No, I don't. I definitely agree.
30:18
And I love this by product of like, you actually don't even go
30:21
to Alford, you go to Limestone because you're not investigating
30:25
but researching the area and you're like, OK, I like the
30:28
area. Well, Dang, I can't get there.
30:29
Well, maybe this school. Wow, that's fascinating.
30:34
What was it like there at Limestone?
30:36
So, you know, it was really different because now, you know,
30:40
going coming from a really large high school and and obviously
30:42
the Community College, because the Community College I was at
30:45
the Bronx Community College used to be sorry.
30:47
It was on the campus of the previous campus of NYU.
30:51
So it was actually a traditional campus, had tracks, beautiful
30:55
buildings. We had the bust of I think like
30:58
the last or see the 1st 40 presidents like it was the
31:01
national monuments there. Yeah.
31:02
Like this campus is humongous. Our Community College.
31:05
Yeah. So going from seeing all these
31:07
people to now going to a school that had 800 students.
31:11
Oh, is it that small? It was, yeah.
31:13
It was that small at the time. Yeah.
31:14
Well, I. Mean that's a they're inverse is
31:17
true. Somebody goes from like 800 to
31:19
8008 thousand down. You know, just using numbers
31:21
8000 down 800 that's a that's hard.
31:23
You got to adjust. How did you adjust to that?
31:27
Wasn't bad, I mean it was just really different seeing the same
31:29
person every single day at the same time.
31:31
But. Within a week, I knew everybody.
31:35
No, seriously, I mean, within the week I literally knew the
31:37
whole campus and I was like, OK, I mean, I may have to, I never
31:41
wanted to leave, you know, I, I felt like it was what I needed,
31:44
but like, it was definitely different.
31:46
I was like, OK, this is, this is really different.
31:48
But I, I will say this, you know, like I have, I have a
31:51
tremendous amount of pride in being from Limestone, you know,
31:54
and then graduating from there. So that's one thing that I think
31:58
I definitely appreciate, you know, going there.
32:01
Education major. No.
32:03
So I went sport management. Yeah, yeah.
32:06
So I, I met my professor that he was the only sport manager,
32:10
professor, one of the best humans I've ever met in my life.
32:12
He was a coach and, you know, but ended up becoming professor
32:17
and he, he taught me so much. So yeah, I shifted over.
32:20
I wanted to go more the exercise science route, but I got into
32:24
chemistry and I said, whoa, I don't like that.
32:27
And I was like, OK, let me switch right back out and go to
32:29
sport management. And I was talking to my coaches
32:31
and then asking them like, hey, can I still do this without
32:34
this? He's like, yeah, I got a
32:35
psychology degree or I have this.
32:36
And I was like, OK, OK, I don't need to be exercise, science or
32:39
education. I got it.
32:40
I, I don't remember, you know, is if, if you probably pull 116
32:45
year old kids that have any interest in becoming coaching
32:48
and you ask them what major the coach, if you're going to be a
32:51
coach, what you, I, I, you know, 99 of them would say in exercise
32:53
physics, you know, they would some science, you know, maybe
32:56
that other one person would say education.
32:59
I don't remember when I learned that the degree is not as
33:03
important. The degree is important.
33:05
You got to get the degree. I do think most people who I was
33:09
a public relations major and I picked that major because I knew
33:12
I was going to be a coach. And so I literally was like,
33:14
what is I was going down the list of majors like what is the
33:16
easiest degree to get? I just need a degree.
33:19
I don't need an exercise phys degree.
33:20
I don't need a biology degree. I just need a stinking degree.
33:24
But I don't remember like when I actually learned that.
33:26
I don't know if I asked other coaches like what degree, but
33:30
it's it's probably more uncommon someone has like an exercise
33:32
phys degree that's a coach then someone who has a public
33:37
relations or you know, whatever. You know, journalism.
33:39
There's lots of journalism majors actually.
33:42
How did you meet the sports management guy?
33:43
If you were initially education, how did you run into him?
33:49
So pretty much, I guess like the university was so small, there
33:53
was a lot of courses that intermingled.
33:56
And so we did a sport leadership class and I'm thinking, I'm
34:00
going to go in there. He's going to teach me how to,
34:02
you know, do this and this and this.
34:04
It was some Jedi mind trick that he put on me that it hit me like
34:07
years later. He.
34:09
Was like, he was like focused on being an ethical good leader and
34:12
everything else will fall into place.
34:14
And everybody in the class is like, you know, pissed off,
34:16
like, man, we're, we're hoping to, you know, learn this, learn
34:19
this. And I was like, I get what he
34:20
did there, though. I see what he did, you know,
34:23
take care of this part and then everything else will fall into
34:26
and so, you know, into alignment.
34:27
So I was like, oh, I was like this, this, this guy gets it.
34:30
Wow, that's pretty cool. I like that.
34:33
Did you ever so your shot put high school or shot put high
34:36
school? Shot put discus thrower out of
34:37
high school. My favorite event in the world.
34:41
That was a hurdle guys. So I love hurdles, but my
34:44
favorite event is the hammer. When did you I shouldn't even
34:47
assume? When did you pick up the hammer
34:49
at all? During college?
34:51
Yeah, so I did it my second year in junior college.
34:57
We just didn't have the, you know, it was a, it was a first
34:59
year program, so we didn't have anything.
35:00
I think, I think we had like one shot put in one discus, you
35:04
know, sharing between like 4-4 throwers and yeah, it was pretty
35:08
rough. So I didn't like one meet and I
35:11
didn't know what I was doing. I just went out there and swung
35:13
it like I was doing like the Highland games and into moving.
35:16
But when I got into college, you know, I guess there was a need
35:20
for the points and I would kind of teach myself how to do it.
35:23
And there were some people there that knew how to do it before me
35:25
and, and they were teaching me and everything like that.
35:28
But I didn't really, I didn't have a coach like a full time
35:29
coach until my fifth year of college.
35:33
What happened? How did you get the full time?
35:35
So, so yeah, so he he was, he was, he was brought in, you
35:39
know, I guess they got approved for another position and he was
35:42
an NAI national champion in the hammer and leads 11 time All
35:47
American in the other two throwing events.
35:49
So really good athlete, you know, he went to William Woods,
35:53
there was Anthony Stockton and yeah, like, you know, he he was
35:58
awesome. I mean, he he, you know, we
35:59
obviously had our, our, our gripes and everything like that.
36:02
You know, me, me, you know, me doing my own thing for these
36:04
couple years. And then he comes in, I'm like,
36:06
I'm like, man, I'm just trying to, you know, make sure my last
36:08
year's good because I'm so used to already just coaching myself
36:11
the. Most part.
36:12
So you didn't really have a throws coach at Limestone?
36:15
Me, my head coaches, they helped they, they, they did the best
36:17
they could, but they definitely had to handle their own event
36:19
group. So I, I completely got it.
36:21
What one really cool thing that they did was they, they had,
36:23
they allowed me to cut kind of create the programming and and
36:27
kind of help my teammates, which I really, really appreciate that
36:30
they because they knew right away, like I told, I was very
36:33
adamant. I was like, guys, I want what I
36:35
want the same job you guys do. So please help me like help me
36:38
get to where I need to get to. And, and I think they did the
36:40
best they could and I think they did a great job on skip flowing
36:43
and to to do that to ease their strain and obviously give me the
36:46
experience that I needed. So if you are verbally saying,
36:52
hey, guys, I you know, you're you're my track coach.
36:54
Yeah, that's what I want to become.
36:55
And I understand we don't have a full time throws coach here.
36:59
So what are you, what are you doing to become the best coach
37:04
slash non coach? Because you know, you're an
37:05
undergrad that you can be. Are you are you getting in more?
37:09
You mentioned, I think you said earlier that you got more into
37:11
the books in college. Are you reading more about
37:13
coaching, like actual coaching, not just like like earlier when
37:17
we talked about those compilation videos, which is
37:19
that cracks me up because yeah, yeah, that was the kind of the
37:22
first Coach's Ed video type stuff was here's the same event
37:24
over and over in different angles and no commentary.
37:27
It was quite amazing. But like Joe, Coach Joe was
37:32
worried about you watching them to try to imitate them.
37:35
I wondered more if you were watching them to like learn the
37:38
style to teach it to someone else.
37:40
So where are you at coaching education wise this very early?
37:44
It's not your your pre career. You're not even in the career
37:46
yet. Your pre career.
37:47
Where are you at in coaching education during this time
37:49
frame? So I was 20 or 19 years old when
37:55
I when I got my level 2 and and I also did the.
38:00
Whoa, wait, you were 20 years old when you get your level 2?
38:05
Yeah. So when and how did you get
38:06
level 1? So I, I, I guess when you're 18,
38:09
you're allowed to do it. And I guess they would.
38:11
From what I remember, you had to be 21 to get your level 2 and.
38:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're wage.
38:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You you broke some rules here.
38:18
I applied and they let me in. So I said all right, I guess
38:20
they want my money or something. So I just was like.
38:22
Where'd you do level 2? Where was level 2 Indiana?
38:26
Was it Marion? I believe it was Marion.
38:28
Yeah. So like so this would have been
38:33
you. So what do you say?
38:33
You graduated 2010, so you're, you're 10/11/12.
38:37
You're something around there. So yeah.
38:38
Marion. Yeah. 13.
38:40
So is Larry Judge teaching? Mike Judge, who's teaching?
38:43
Yeah. So I had Larry Judge.
38:46
Excuse me, both judges. Aaron Goldreeth.
38:48
And Oh yeah, Aaron. Yeah.
38:50
And Mike Turk. Oh yeah, wow, dude, there's your
38:54
Mount Rushmore of teachers for crying around.
38:56
Those guys are just really good teachers of this.
39:00
So you're you're this kid in college and you're at level two.
39:07
Wow, that that's a little bit audacious.
39:11
Like who do you think you are? You know what I'm saying?
39:13
Like I love it, but I'm just like, wow, what are you doing?
39:15
Weren't you supposed to be in the circle yourself?
39:16
What are you talking about being here?
39:19
And beyond those four teachers who are amazing people and
39:22
amazing teachers, you're in a classroom of a lot of other like
39:26
you're actually in a classroom of people like, oh, this is who
39:28
I want to be. I want to be that person, that
39:29
person, that person. Like I want to be that.
39:30
How was that experience Level 2? Level 2 is one of my favorite
39:33
times of my life coaching education wise.
39:36
Beyond the classroom, everything else that goes on, you know, the
39:39
whole room or the hallway conversations and stuff like
39:42
that. What was that Level 2 experience
39:44
like for you? I was definitely very
39:46
intimidated, you know, because I mean, sure.
39:49
You're 20 or whatever. Yeah, when I was when I was
39:52
coming up, I mean, I all I did was read a bunch of Larry Judges
39:57
books and then his research. So when I got to him, I was
40:00
like, dude, I was like, Oh my God, this is like the godfather
40:02
of throws coaching sounds like. Oh my God.
40:05
Like I was just asking him every question I could, you know, like
40:09
one day when we did our introductions, you know, there
40:10
was like, I was like, hey, you know, still coach.
40:13
I mean, I'm still competing and. You know, I'm representing
40:15
Limestone College and I never forget one thing was Mike Judge.
40:18
He's like, what are you doing here?
40:19
And I was like, they let me in. So I just.
40:22
That's what I'm saying, like what are you doing?
40:23
I'm with Mike on this. I'm like, what are you doing?
40:25
This is crazy. I love it, but man, this is
40:27
crazy. Was there any like, like did you
40:30
have any like OK, Mike Judge love him to death, does an
40:34
amazing job. He asked that question.
40:37
What are you doing there? Was there ever an internal like
40:39
what am I doing here? Yeah.
40:42
I mean, I was definitely because there were, there were some
40:45
because, you know, remember I did all that research.
40:46
I mean, I must have researched all 1000 schools in NAIAN&C AA
40:51
XI knew anybody in there before they even knew me.
40:54
So I'm looking and I'm very reciting stats in my head of
40:57
like this person. I read your bio.
40:58
I read your bio. I read your bio.
41:00
I'm just like, oh man, like I'm really in here with these, with
41:02
these great coaches. Man, did you just you, you
41:06
strike me as a very curious person.
41:08
Did you just soak it up? Just ask everybody a question
41:11
every time. I mean, just yeah.
41:13
Yeah, no, I, I definitely, I did not miss a chance to to talk to
41:17
everyone in that room. That's so cool, I love that.
41:20
OK so now I can see where senior year they bring in a full time
41:26
throws coach. Even the most humblest person
41:31
could still be like bro I've been doing this for a bit and
41:34
I'm not saying I don't hear you saying hey I knew what I was
41:36
doing. You're still learning, but
41:38
you've been doing it and so now someone comes in whether they're
41:42
the greatest person coach in the world, they're going to do some
41:44
things differently and you're like, man, I just got one year.
41:48
I don't want to say I'm just trying to get out of here, but I
41:51
ain't trying to rock no boat. I could see.
41:53
Would that be a little tough? Especially you said the guy was
41:55
really good, like he's going to have some strong opinions
41:58
himself. How did you navigate that?
41:59
That seems tough for a you. Probably 20-2 ish your senior
42:03
year 2122. 21 yeah, I had the early birthday, so yeah. 21 But
42:09
yeah, I mean, I mean, those first few months were a little
42:11
rough, you know, I mean, normal stuff.
42:13
It was never disrespectful, like, or anything like that.
42:15
Like it was never overly, you know, trying to overstep my
42:19
bounds or anything like that. You know, it was just more so
42:20
like, hey, like it was more of my, my concern of like, hey,
42:24
this is my last year. I get that you're just your
42:25
first year coaching. I just don't want this to mess
42:28
up. I made that very clear.
42:30
Like I was like luck, I want this to go well, you know,
42:32
because this is my last raw. I'm not going to GoPro after
42:35
this. I'm not going to because he was
42:36
training to be a professional hammer thrower at the time as
42:39
well. So I was like, all right, look,
42:41
we, I think we need to be on the same page of like this needs to
42:44
work because I, I don't have a second chance at this.
42:46
I can that's so interesting. What great perspective there.
42:50
I can see it from his side too, of like, hey, this is my first
42:53
year. I've got to lay down the I'm not
42:56
trying to put words in his mouth.
42:57
I don't know the actual, but I could see this like, hey, I need
43:00
to. I got to set the tone.
43:01
These guys all know it's my first year.
43:03
I can't, you know, can't throw me to the piranhas here.
43:05
I got to make sure they know I'm the big fish.
43:08
And so here comes this guy and you are unique.
43:11
It's not like just here's a kid on the team.
43:13
It's like, oh, I mean this kids done level 2 already.
43:16
What do you mean? What this guy's been doing on
43:18
his own and probably fairly success, you know, there's been
43:20
some successes there. I could see there being some,
43:22
you know, there's insecurities in life and insecurities in life
43:28
and egos. I could see there being some,
43:32
some, some 2 especially, you know, being stereotypical or two
43:34
throws dudes, you know, flashing.
43:36
I think you know, Yeah, that's interesting.
43:39
OK, it obviously successful. I mean you didn't quit the team
43:43
and he didn't beat you up with a hammer or anything.
43:47
So seems like it it went OK, so graduation comes now it's time
43:53
big boy were like you actually got to get a job or go graduate
43:56
assistant. What do you do after you
43:57
graduate undergrad? So, so there was a school like a
44:01
rival school, King University in our conference.
44:04
So they were, they were looking for Aga.
44:06
And so, you know, I knew I kind of wanted to, you know, stay in
44:11
that kind of like the South and everything like that.
44:13
And so of all the places I applied, I mean, I was really
44:16
the only one that kind of got back to me like, make the most
44:18
sense. And so I got the GA ship there.
44:22
And, you know, I was so here to tell you this.
44:25
I'll never forget this for the rest of my life.
44:27
I graduated May 7th, 2015, OK. I didn't have to start my GA
44:32
until obviously, August. I moved there and I started May
44:36
9th. Like that's how eager I was to
44:38
get started. You're like, look, man, I got
44:40
enough to do. Let's get started, yeah?
44:42
I, I, I paid my own way for the summer and I was ready to go and
44:46
I, I got recruiting and I actually was able to bring in
44:48
two athletes that fall like I was not playing the game like I
44:51
was. Dude, they got their they got
44:53
their money's worth for that GA. You bringing kids with you?
44:55
I love that. That's awesome.
44:57
Any I'm always amazed at how strong home base is for a lot of
45:02
people. Any during this time, you know,
45:04
you're spending now, you're you're the years mark away from
45:07
home. Any like, man, I kind of wish I
45:10
was back in New York City because there's got to be some
45:12
things you liked about New York City that you're that you're not
45:14
getting in South Carolina, for crying out loud.
45:16
You know, any kind of like, yeah, maybe I'd go home one day.
45:21
I mean, I'm kind of there now with this, with that part, but
45:25
no, not really. The only thing is that
45:26
everywhere I've kind of lived, there's always been far away
45:28
from a major airport, you know, so that that's probably the one
45:32
thing. But I mean, I love the food,
45:33
love the people. The cost of living is always,
45:35
always great. But that's the one thing that
45:38
kind of kind of always, always bothered me was, you know, being
45:41
so far away from a major airport everywhere I've been out, you
45:43
know, so. Yeah, I'm the guy who is, I love
45:47
that I'm not near a major airport and I can start in a
45:49
small 1 and then go to the big one.
45:50
It's always easier. It's an extra flight, but man,
45:53
security's faster. You know, I I walk through
45:55
security. I fly so much.
45:56
They literally like, Mike, what's up, man?
45:57
Where you headed to today? I'm like, hey, what's up, bro?
46:00
Yeah, I don't like the big airports, man.
46:02
Give me a break. OK GA, what do you end up
46:06
getting your grad degree in? So that's the thing I never, I
46:10
never finished and my English, you know, was, was really on me,
46:14
you know, really ahead of me. So I, I applied for a position,
46:18
a part time position in up upstate New York at Plattsburgh
46:21
State. It was part time, but it paid
46:23
almost like full time. So you know, I was just like,
46:26
OK, you know, just be nice, you know, nice to get paid because I
46:29
wasn't getting paid. I think they gave me like $1000
46:33
for the entire year. So I was having it was, it was
46:35
it was a little tough financially to kind of stay
46:38
there beyond that. Year.
46:39
So you did it for a year? I did it for nine months.
46:42
I left in March. I'm from Alabama.
46:44
We just call it a year. What what were you on path for
46:48
your grad degree? Like?
46:49
I'm just trying to think like what you were thinking about
46:51
because you're everything you're doing is kind of like for my
46:54
career to be a coach. So I'm just curious what you it?
46:56
Was education. Yeah, yeah.
46:57
OK. Good, good, good, good.
46:59
So Plattsburgh, it says, hey, we have a position, it's part time,
47:03
but hey, at least you get paid. And you're right, it is nice to
47:04
get paid. We should be getting paid more
47:06
as our track and field coaches. So now I'm going to call it full
47:09
time. I know it says it's part time,
47:10
but you're you're in charge of the throws program at
47:13
Plattsburgh. How'd that go?
47:18
No, it was great. I was very happy with the two
47:22
people I work for there, Andrew Krug and Nick Jones.
47:25
They were very, very informative and very, they had, they had a
47:29
great way of teaching me whenever I messed up and saying
47:32
like, OK, here's why and here's why we do it this way.
47:35
You know, So I mean, I, I was there for six months and I mean,
47:38
I learned so much from them. Give us an example.
47:40
I love that. If you're, if you're willing to
47:42
be fairly open and transparent, what's a mistake that you made
47:45
that they're like, hey man, here's why we don't do that and
47:47
here's why we do it this way. What was something like that?
47:49
Like, so I was still, I was what?
47:52
I think I just turned 23 at that time.
47:55
And so, you know, I was still close in age with the athletes
47:57
and everything like that. So not not from
47:59
unprofessionalism, but like communication, like just making
48:01
sure that it's a streamline of communication, you know, because
48:04
I was still kind of having that barrier of like, OK, or haven't
48:07
had that barrier of like, hey, you're very close in age.
48:10
These make sure we're still being able to communicate
48:13
effectively with them. You know, not just that this is
48:16
my way over the highway. It needs to be, you know, with
48:18
the new generation. This is why we're doing it.
48:21
And boom, no, we, we execute this plan.
48:23
Yeah. That makes all the sense in the
48:26
world. I think that's one of the
48:27
hardest things. I don't know how other sports do
48:31
it or what issues they may have, you know, because I'm not in
48:33
those sports, but I know in track and field, like I've said
48:36
it and I'm I'm pretty, I'm pretty adamant about this,
48:39
Steve. I think there should be a rule,
48:41
a law, whatever culture that you can't GA at the same place that
48:46
you were an undergrad athlete. I I just find there's nothing in
48:51
my heart that can convince me that on the end of May your
48:57
boys, you're playing Xbox with your team, you're an undergrad.
49:00
You know, you're doing your undergrad things with your
49:02
teammates, your boys with AZ and then you become the GA.
49:07
And so that fall when they all come back now your coach and so
49:11
you can't be playing like you like you said, you learned some
49:13
things that you can't be playing Xbox with the boys on Friday
49:15
night. You can't be going out to the
49:18
bar with that's over with. There has to be a separation
49:20
there. I boy, nothing convinces me that
49:24
a 22 year old you're still a kid at 22.
49:27
A 22 year old makes that break successfully. 100%.
49:32
There's there's nothing. I, I just no way, bro, no way.
49:35
So that communication, you're 20 at 23 in this Plattsburgh case,
49:39
you're still a kid. I, I know you're, you got a job
49:42
and you're doing, you know, our brain keeps forming until we're
49:45
25, for crying out loud. And especially in a sport where
49:50
it's about camaraderie and, you know, pushing each other, boy,
49:54
that can be tough. So I'm glad you you were able to
49:57
learn those lessons, have those lessons at that point and have
50:01
someone, a good leader to help you see those things the the way
50:05
they're happening and way they need to be happening.
50:08
No, I agree. Yeah.
50:08
And I was very fortunate for the time I was able to, you know,
50:11
spend there. And yeah, I mean, it was short,
50:14
you know, it was only there for six months, but definitely,
50:16
definitely was able to learn a lot from there.
50:18
Why six months? Where do we go next?
50:20
So then I got a full time position at East Tennessee State
50:24
and that was in kind of the works before I left from King.
50:28
So, you know, there was a connection there because we're
50:30
all of our indoor meets where where that he says he stayed
50:33
when they when they still hosted some meets there.
50:36
And yeah, they made they gave me a call in in September and there
50:40
was like, hey, we got a full time position if you want it,
50:42
you know, wasn't paying much, but I was like, is D1, you know,
50:46
at that time I was like, you know, I wanted to go D1 really
50:49
badly. And so I was like, all right,
50:50
I'm out. I'll, I'll take the, I'll take
50:52
the jump and, and go. And you know, I think I
50:54
definitely think that was a good decision as well.
50:56
Yeah. Was that George Watts?
50:57
Was that Dave cops then? Yeah, Go to Georgia.
51:00
Was Hassan there as well? Yeah.
51:03
So he's so he's the reason why I got the job.
51:05
So I had connected with with Hassan when I was at the meets
51:09
and you know, I just went up to him.
51:10
I said, hey, man, like, you know, I think I'm going to, you
51:13
know, have to kind of move on, you know, from from King after
51:16
this year probably. But if I'm going to still kind
51:17
of be here, I would love to, you know, be on the staff.
51:19
Do you guys have any part time positions?
51:21
He was like, no, we don't have any paid positions, but I was
51:23
like, well, I'll work for free, you know, I'll tell him I was
51:25
like, if it means the opportunity to work with Coach
51:27
Watts, like I'm going to, I'll work for free, you know.
51:30
And so he was like, Hey, take my number.
51:31
And you know, he he kept his word.
51:34
He was like, I'll call you if there's anything.
51:35
And then he calls me in September And I was like,
51:37
there's no way that it that just worked, but all right.
51:40
That's so cool. I love you putting yourself in
51:42
that opportunity. Like some people think that
51:45
those opportunities should call them and you're like, man, I'd
51:47
better put myself out there or what the what can I expect?
51:49
So I'd love that Hassan love Hassan.
51:51
One of my dear friends actually is a Guild podcast.
51:54
Ogi think he was episode number. Oh, he might have been around
51:58
the 20 range and he was early man.
51:59
We 300 and something. He's a old, old hat on on the
52:02
podcast, but absolutely love him.
52:04
Love his his work ethic, his hustle and his connectedness.
52:08
Of course, you know him. He knows everybody.
52:10
I mean, and everybody knows him. He's just he's a great person to
52:14
to talk with and talk track and field and all the experiences he
52:18
had. It's quite amazing.
52:20
So you go to East Tennessee State, man, what a great place
52:22
and against Georgia, what a great leader they have had there
52:25
now for quite a while. How did it's full time?
52:29
How do you go there and establish A throws program?
52:33
How do you how do you do that? How'd it go?
52:35
Yeah, so, so the previous coach, you know like actually 2 coaches
52:40
before then was Megavrid cheap. Her name name is now Meg Stone.
52:44
So that's a really big shoes to fill when I got there.
52:47
That's right. The the Meg and her husband were
52:49
big time. I almost want to say like, what
52:54
would you call it? Because they, they, I mean, they
52:56
coached obviously, and did a really good job, but they were
52:57
like in the academic side, like, like clinician, like studies and
53:02
like, you know, way above my knowledge level type stuff.
53:06
They were doing some hardcore stuff.
53:07
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so the first thing I did
53:11
after I got all settled and I went right, right to her office
53:13
because she's, she runs the Olympic training center that's
53:16
there. And I just, I just said here,
53:19
here, teach me. Like I was like, tell me
53:21
everything you know about this place and how I need to do this.
53:23
And she was awesome. I mean, we talked almost every
53:27
week and she would always walk through our throws area to get
53:30
to her office. And so it was always really nice
53:32
to catch up with her every week. And, you know, she was always
53:35
obviously following the programs to see how everything was going
53:38
with with with them. And yeah, she was, she was such
53:41
a, such a helpful person. So yeah.
53:44
Do you know how you're going to see you're going to regret being
53:49
on the show? Just I've got just dumb
53:51
questions for you. Have you heard or read or
53:54
thought about you know, they talk about like with AI, like
53:57
we'll be able to like download our bodies into like AI
54:00
machines. All of our knowledge is still,
54:02
even though we may the body may pass away.
54:04
All of our is this ring a belly? Like, are you just like Mike?
54:08
OK. I wonder because when you said
54:10
you went to Doctor Stone and said teach, like in my head, I
54:14
was like, download. Just give me everything right?
54:16
I wonder if we'll ever get to a day where it's like, all right,
54:19
You want to be a thrust coach? Plug this into your your your
54:21
USB. Here's everything from Judge and
54:24
Stone and Wilkins and the everybody you know.
54:30
I don't know, man, that's just dumb.
54:31
You ever think we'll get there? I do.
54:34
I do think we'll get there in some capacity for sure.
54:38
I just hope it doesn't, you know, take over our jobs and
54:40
like. Oh, that's a good, No, that's a
54:43
good point. If, if, if that's all it took,
54:45
Well, then can I just put that into a robot and the robot
54:48
analyzes every throw that the athletes.
54:50
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, Let's stay away from that.
54:52
That's a really good point that I think that's a a job taker,
54:55
not a job enhancer. Yeah, a good, good point.
54:57
Let's all you AI people don't do that, do other things.
55:01
Yeah, yeah, That's that's smart. That's smart.
55:03
How long were you at East Tennessee State?
55:06
So I believe it was about 4 1/2 years I was there.
55:09
OK, so longest you've been at a place?
55:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For the most part, yeah, yeah.
55:15
But yeah, no, I mean, it was good.
55:16
Definitely learned a lot from Coach Watts and so on.
55:19
And I was able to out. One big thing I really
55:21
appreciate was I was able to take my lumps there.
55:23
And I mean, I took some lumps. What?
55:25
Does that mean? You know, just just learning
55:27
how, you know, like we were talking about like with Plasper,
55:29
just learning how to communicate, learning how to
55:31
program. I mean, that was that was my
55:32
first opportunity also to kind of see my program in a full
55:35
year, a full annual plan. So I was pretty nervous about
55:39
that to be like, OK, is my program, does it actually work?
55:42
You know, you know, I was able to just learn so much there.
55:45
You know, I mean, you know, I met some really good people
55:48
there. You know, I don't know if you
55:51
had them on the on the show yet, but I mean, definitely you need
55:53
to. But the head coach at Congress
55:55
University, Brandon Morton. I know I was on Brandon's
56:00
podcast. How about that?
56:01
He had a podcast, but you know, everybody and their brother had
56:03
a podcast in COVID, but Brandon did 1 and I was on his I love
56:08
Brandon. I in fact, I was just D twos,
56:12
you know, a couple weeks ago and just gave him a hug and was
56:14
like, man, I'm so proud of you, dude.
56:15
Like he he's he's a guy who has been let me make sure I say this
56:21
the correct way. He has not shield away from
56:24
telling people about stuff. And I don't mean that in a
56:26
negative way. He's just he's not an introvert.
56:28
Let's just say that and has backed it up maybe more so.
56:33
I mean, he's really he's got a what did his girl, you know, his
56:37
girl won the 60, right? She won the 60.
56:39
And then did I just see where she opened outdoor at like 11
56:43
three or something like some stupid.
56:45
I mean, I know she's fast, but it's like, holy crap, that was
56:48
your opener. But I love him, man.
56:50
His throws coach there now his is.
56:52
I mean, they just conference has got it going on, man.
56:54
Conference is like Wofford back in the day where you're like,
56:56
man, maybe I said where's conference?
56:57
I need to figure out where conference is AT and go there.
56:59
That I love that dude. How did you talk about what?
57:04
How did you bring that up? What the heck?
57:06
So, so, so he was at, he had just started a Converse and they
57:09
were coming to the meats over at ETSU.
57:13
And I was trying to, I was trying to help my college
57:15
roommate get into coaching and he had a graduate assistantship
57:19
at the time for a distance coach.
57:21
And so I recommended him due to, to Brandon.
57:24
And then just Brandon and I just developed this really good
57:26
relationship. I mean, we talk almost every
57:27
week. And no, just just just, you
57:31
know, during that time at ETSU that we know I'm talking to,
57:34
talking to Brandon, talking to Coach Watson, I just learned so
57:37
much about throwing, but from coaches that didn't even coach
57:41
the event. No, you're learning about the
57:43
profession. Yes.
57:46
OK, good. Because that was going to be one
57:47
of my next questions is, you know, sometimes we, it, it's
57:51
easy for us to think, especially from the outside looking in.
57:54
We tend to think of recruiting as, you know, if you're just a
57:58
extroverted fun person, recruiting will be easy for you.
58:02
And that's not true for a couple reasons.
58:04
I know plenty of extroverts that are not good at recruiting.
58:08
I know plenty of introverts who are really good at recruiting.
58:12
So it's a skill. It's not just being this guy,
58:15
you know, it's it's a skill. How are you?
58:20
You've demonstrated some real amazing ways that you're
58:23
learning how to become a coach, technically how to coach the
58:26
shot, the discus, the hammer, probably the jab.
58:29
What are you doing? How are you doing?
58:31
And and you know, you may say nothing, bro, just get on the
58:33
phone. I don't know how are you
58:35
learning how to recruit And you know with that is not just OK, I
58:39
got to talk to the 1718 year old kids and convince them my
58:42
schools to write school. But you know, scholarship
58:44
management, how much your head coach, how much George gives you
58:47
that go with the Rose. How do you chop that up?
58:49
Do you know all the things that go with that?
58:51
How are you at this point in your career, that early point of
58:54
career? How are you learning and
58:55
improving, adapting in that part of the job?
58:59
Well, with each school I, I was at, it was, it was pretty
59:01
different. It was, I can't remember which
59:03
school was, but there was one school that kind of more rely on
59:05
like the Dan Tudor bottle. You know, there was, you know,
59:09
when I was at ETSUI watched Hassan.
59:12
I mean, you know, he can, he can talk with the best of them.
59:14
And so I watched him do some calls and he always did his, he
59:17
always did his calls with his door open and our office was not
59:19
even, you know, 3 feet away from each other.
59:22
So I always kind of heard his calls and how, you know, he got
59:26
connected with his, with his recruits and everything like
59:28
that. So I kind of piggybacked off of
59:29
that, that type of. Style.
59:31
And yeah, I love that. But you're not Hassan.
59:35
And what I mean by that is I know Hassan, I know you, you
59:38
guys don't have the same speech patterns, the same, you know, I
59:43
don't want to say gift of gab because I don't like that term.
59:46
But you know, you're different. So how did you like, OK, I see
59:49
how he does it, but I've got to be true to my personality and
59:51
style. How did you convert that, if you
59:54
will? I mean, I definitely, I
59:57
definitely show my actual, my true personality, you know,
1:00:00
people that know me, you know me, I'm, I'm, I'm very
1:00:03
talkative. You know, I'm always smiling.
1:00:04
I'm always doing that. I mean, I get excited on the
1:00:06
faults. I mean, I always tell them, you
1:00:08
know, whenever I'm, whenever I'm recruiting, I say, hey, this is
1:00:11
my favorite part of the entire recruiting process.
1:00:13
It's not the day that you signed, it's the, it's the
1:00:15
moment when I get to know you, you know?
1:00:17
You know, so like just talking about that and just you know,
1:00:20
who who doesn't get excited when someone else is excited on the
1:00:22
phone with them and talking about them, you know, right.
1:00:24
And so that was something that I always, you know, kind of harped
1:00:27
on because of coach Watts. You know, Coach Watts, always
1:00:30
make sure that they know they're wanted whether you want them or
1:00:32
not, because that connection is going to be able to come back
1:00:35
around a full circle because, you know, ETSU, you know, this
1:00:38
the transfer port was kind of getting going a little bit, you
1:00:42
know, pretty much like we had some kids that, you know, we
1:00:44
lost in recruiting and then came right back to us, you know, and
1:00:47
I think it was because of those initial calls.
1:00:48
And I was like, oh, OK, well, this makes sense then.
1:00:50
Like leave a lasting memory within that within those initial
1:00:53
calls. That's where I'm getting at and
1:00:56
you, I think you nailed it there.
1:00:58
It's one thing to see in the and you're right, I would think
1:01:00
Hassan's one of the better recruiters out there.
1:01:02
And so it's easy to be able to see Hassan style and go, Oh,
1:01:06
well, that must be who how I should be.
1:01:08
When in reality, you take the the Nuggets from what he does
1:01:13
and how he does it. And you got to incorporate into
1:01:15
your personality. I think that's what you're the
1:01:17
way I would describe how you just described as like, OK, I
1:01:21
see what he's doing and you learn from George.
1:01:23
Like you better talk about that kid.
1:01:26
I guess one thing. I know the university and it's
1:01:28
great and all that you got to convince him.
1:01:29
But if that kid doesn't know that you know who they are, is
1:01:34
interested in who they are, boy, I don't think you're going to
1:01:38
you have a harder time getting that kid to pick your school out
1:01:41
of the other hundred choices that they have.
1:01:45
Yeah, I like that. That's that's really smart.
1:01:47
I'm not sure a lot of people actually get there as early as
1:01:52
maybe you're getting there at this point.
1:01:54
I think we maybe eventually, you know, you get hit in the head so
1:01:57
many times. You got to figure out, you know,
1:01:58
you got to change something. But it's it's interesting to at
1:02:01
a young age. OK.
1:02:02
East Tennessee State, 4 1/2 years, I think you said what?
1:02:05
Why the heck leave? You're having a good time.
1:02:06
You're at Georgia with a sign. Come on, man.
1:02:08
That's a That's a good time. Yeah, no, I just think I outgrew
1:02:12
the position. You know, I kind of wanted to,
1:02:15
you know, because I always had Hassan and coach Watts to as a
1:02:18
safety blanket, you know, I was taking all the lumps and
1:02:20
everything like that. But I, I want to kind of do
1:02:22
something new, you know, get into a new place and, you know,
1:02:26
USC upstate basically came open and I was, I'm still friends
1:02:32
with, with this coach, but coach friend of mines left to go to a
1:02:35
school in Texas. And he was like, hey, man, like
1:02:38
if you're interested in man, it's a great place, you know,
1:02:41
because the other thing too, like we didn't have really
1:02:42
facilities at ETSU. So like, you know, whether the
1:02:48
high school or we had to throw off of this, this like
1:02:51
demolished building. And we kind of made like a
1:02:54
little throws area there, you know.
1:02:56
So it was a little tough, you know, because I was literally
1:02:58
dodging hammers every week. Yeah, I got hit with one, you
1:03:01
know. No way.
1:03:03
Yeah, right. Mind my leg and so.
1:03:05
Like did you get like the the handle whip or something?
1:03:08
Or no, I got the I got the ball. I mean, did you not break your
1:03:11
leg? Yeah, my my leg was severely
1:03:14
bruised for about a whole 2 weeks.
1:03:16
That might be best case scenario bro.
1:03:18
Holy crap. Luckily it was a light ball.
1:03:21
I think it was a 6 LB ball. So, but like, yeah, I mean I was
1:03:23
close too, so it didn't hit me a full, you know, full full
1:03:27
strength or whatever. But I, I.
1:03:29
Wonder how many of those close calls happen every single day.
1:03:32
Dude that worries me so much. Oh my God, that's crazy.
1:03:37
I've over the years now, I kind of know where to stand because
1:03:41
of the way that people turn. So you can kind of be away from
1:03:44
it or at least kind of keep by you.
1:03:46
Like where I was, I mean, I was not in a good spot.
1:03:48
That was definitely all me being young and dumb and not being in
1:03:51
a good spot, but. Yeah, but a lot of us are young
1:03:54
and dumb. Some of us are old and dumb, so
1:03:59
make sure I love that you have confidence that you know, you
1:04:03
got experience now and you know, because of their turns and
1:04:05
things like that where it's most likely going to go.
1:04:08
But you know, especially in the hammer, things happen.
1:04:12
Always keep your wits ahead of you, OK, Always.
1:04:14
I don't care if don't don't get overconfident, like I'm in the
1:04:16
right place. No worries.
1:04:18
That's when I'm going to have a different.
1:04:20
I'm going to be having a conversation with you, Steven.
1:04:22
I'll be talking about. Yeah.
1:04:23
Remember that guy, Steve? Miami is great, dude.
1:04:25
God, it's sad what happened to him, you know what I'm saying?
1:04:27
Keep your wits about you. That's got to man.
1:04:30
Well, in that moment, I mean, I think that happened my second to
1:04:32
last year there. In that moment, I saw I would
1:04:34
never take a job without a cage ever again.
1:04:37
Yeah, right. So, hey, you know what?
1:04:40
We should all be that way. And that for all those schools
1:04:43
who don't have cages, get cages. I like that a lot.
1:04:46
That's that's good. You're good.
1:04:47
You're good for business, Steve. I like that attitude.
1:04:50
So you go to USC Upstate. Yes, so yeah, two no D 10
1:04:53
they're D1. OK, I'm sorry.
1:04:57
Yeah, they were they were in the big S at the time.
1:04:58
They were usually they were they just came over to the Big South
1:05:01
before that was the ace on with like Kennesaw and and Ng at the
1:05:05
time and all that. But yeah, no, I mean just that
1:05:09
that program had, you know, a good little history of throwing.
1:05:12
You know, they had like one really good thrower on the
1:05:14
women's side, one really good throw on the men's side.
1:05:16
So there was definitely potential.
1:05:17
They really didn't have full time position until the person
1:05:20
that left before me and then meet.
1:05:24
But yeah, I mean, it was exactly what I needed.
1:05:28
I worked for Carson Blackwell there, there and he was an
1:05:30
amazing boss. You know, he he's someone that I
1:05:33
really appreciate even more so now.
1:05:36
He was very high on like, let me do, let me do the let me do the
1:05:39
busy work. You focus on coaching and being
1:05:41
the best assistant coach you can be.
1:05:43
And if I need your help I will let you know.
1:05:46
Maybe you just answered this next question.
1:05:48
I thought about when you said that about Carson, what makes
1:05:51
and and we we've had a couple of head coaches so far in your
1:05:54
journey, but we know you have more head coaches coming up
1:05:57
here. What makes a good head coach?
1:05:59
Like when you're you know, I'm just thinking about like for
1:06:01
this throws coach, an assistant coach, you know, every event's
1:06:05
different, like a throws coach needs and wants are different
1:06:08
than what the jumps coach needs and wants are and things like
1:06:10
that for you and your experience, what makes a great
1:06:13
head? Someone listening right now is
1:06:15
going to be a head coach and wants to be the best freaking
1:06:16
head coach they can be. What's attitudes help, not help?
1:06:25
The micromanaging Macromanaging what?
1:06:27
What's in your experience makes a great head coach?
1:06:32
Well, can I get one minute? I'm just going to take one
1:06:34
minute if that's OK. Absolutely, yeah.
1:06:35
Yeah, I'm going to move myself from the camera.
1:06:37
Real quick, no problem as Steve, you probably had to go to the
1:06:43
bathroom. I don't know, You know, if
1:06:44
you've if you're a regular listener here to the podcast,
1:06:47
you know, we have everything. I've had bathroom breaks, I've
1:06:50
had meeting request come in. It all happens.
1:06:54
But but that's what we do here in the podcast.
1:06:56
I'm I'm all good with that. So Steven takes care of of that.
1:06:59
We'll we'll get right back to him.
1:07:01
I'm just fascinated by Stevens journey here.
1:07:05
You know, such a young. This is different than you know,
1:07:08
some of the guests we've had that were coaches, kids that
1:07:11
knew they were going to be a coach.
1:07:13
This is a kid who you know through culture.
1:07:16
We are Marshall and Coach Joe there at the Armory grew to
1:07:21
become a coach and then did it a young age.
1:07:23
I still can't believe I got to talk to Larry and Mike and Mike
1:07:26
and Aaron about this 2021 year old kid in their level 2.
1:07:32
That's amazing. I I did my level 2.
1:07:35
My first one was jumps in Boise with Boo Scheck Snyder, another
1:07:39
Gill podcast alum, and I was, gosh, that's when I was at Ball
1:07:44
State. So I was I was over.
1:07:47
I was 28. I wasn't 2021 like Steve was and
1:07:50
I can't imagine being younger. I, I was over my head as a 28
1:07:54
year old that class. So I'm glad he had that
1:07:57
experience. OK, I just told everybody you
1:07:59
went to the bathroom, Steve, So don't don't worry about what it
1:08:02
actually was, OK, We left it off with your experience.
1:08:07
What what makes a for, for a throws coach and, and let's
1:08:09
caveat this a for a throws coach and a, your this is for you and
1:08:13
your opinion. There's going to be people who
1:08:14
are like, no man, I need a head coach who wants to see all my
1:08:17
workouts or whatever, you know, opposite of you're about to say
1:08:20
for you what makes a good head coach.
1:08:23
I think it really just depends on the situation, you know,
1:08:25
because not every school is the same.
1:08:28
I was very, I've been very fortunate to where I haven't
1:08:31
really had many schools that I worked at where enrollment was
1:08:34
the biggest driver for success. So, you know, I came, that was
1:08:40
the big thing. But that wasn't going to be more
1:08:42
so much. I was going to be from the other
1:08:44
coaches event groups, but I think from a throws coaches,
1:08:51
like what is the successful throws coach is going to be
1:08:54
obviously success. You know, if you're going to put
1:08:55
all that investment, because when you when you're when you're
1:08:58
investing in throws is not going to be cheap, as we all know.
1:09:01
And so you got to ensure that obviously you're getting the
1:09:03
bang for your buck, right. But now flip that, you know,
1:09:08
from a head coach, you know, you want someone that's going to be
1:09:11
supportive of that event group, you know, understands that it
1:09:16
does take time before you see a, you know, a return on investment
1:09:19
with that, especially on the men's side.
1:09:22
You know, just I think I've been very fortunate to wear, you
1:09:26
know, I've had head coaches that want to support our throws
1:09:29
groups, you know, whether it's scholarship wise or whether it's
1:09:34
equipment, you know, whether it's just availability of a
1:09:38
facility. Sometimes, you know, I mean, at
1:09:41
ETSU, you know, coach Watts far for me to, you know, get some
1:09:44
availability with the Dome and all that stuff so we can throw
1:09:48
because we had a really good weight thrower at the time.
1:09:50
So I need to be inside for that. But but yeah, no, I mean, I
1:09:54
think just being the best assistant you can be from a
1:09:57
throws coach's perspective, you know, don't know.
1:10:00
I think I've learned over the years nobody wants the the loud
1:10:03
and angry throws coach. You know, usually you do want
1:10:06
the the choir one that just does their thing but supports when
1:10:09
they need to. And and then, you know, from a
1:10:13
hey, coaching perspective, you know, just someone as supportive
1:10:18
and, and and understand or wants to understand the throws.
1:10:21
You know, it's not just Oh yeah, you guys are big heavies and you
1:10:24
go and throw and All right, thank you for.
1:10:25
Go, go over there. I'll see you at the meet.
1:10:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll see you after the meet
1:10:29
because you're way away. I'm not actually not going to
1:10:30
see you at the meet. I'll see you after the meet.
1:10:31
Right, Right. Right.
1:10:32
Yeah. So you know.
1:10:34
Throws. It's funny, as you were saying,
1:10:36
that throws I I can't think of another event besides like the
1:10:39
steeplechase and then the multis.
1:10:42
It's throws are interesting. Half of your events you're more
1:10:46
likely to have to teach people who have never done it before
1:10:49
the hammer and the javelin and then for split it up a half
1:10:54
again, your male side are all going to have to go from 12 LB
1:10:59
to 16 LB or 1.6 like then that's a that's a you know, the hurdles
1:11:03
are like that right, 39 to 40 twos and stuff like that.
1:11:06
But but that is interesting, you are, I wonder if throws coaches
1:11:11
are the most closest to being a teacher 1st.
1:11:17
And again, teacher and coach fairly synonymous here.
1:11:19
But like you, you really have to.
1:11:22
I mean, I know my 100m guys and gals and my mylar coaches,
1:11:24
they're I know they're teaching. I'm not dismissing that.
1:11:27
But a guy who ran the mile in high school is running the mile
1:11:32
in college. You know, I'm saying there's no,
1:11:34
they don't like say, well, now you got to, you know, there's
1:11:36
the holes in the track in college.
1:11:38
You know, it's the same mile shot puts, different hammer.
1:11:41
They maybe never have done it. That's it.
1:11:43
You, you've really got to focus on basics the majority of the
1:11:48
time because you're teaching people who have no clue.
1:11:51
It's a new event for them most of the time.
1:11:54
Yeah, no, I agree. You know, that that's kind of
1:11:57
where I made my living on, you know, with coaching the hammer.
1:12:00
You know, being able to teach from beginning is a lot easier
1:12:04
for at least for me than coaching someone with a prior
1:12:06
experience already set in their system and all that stuff.
1:12:09
So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's definitely more fun to, you
1:12:15
know, seeing their excitement because they see such an
1:12:17
improvement too. You know, you know, when you're
1:12:20
going from throwing, you know, 60 feet your first time throwing
1:12:22
it and then you're throwing 160 feet, you know, three months
1:12:25
later, you're like, you know, they, they, they see that.
1:12:27
They see the proof in the pudding of like, OK, I, I, I can
1:12:31
definitely quantify, I guess the, the.
1:12:33
Improvement. Yeah, Yeah, that's right.
1:12:35
That's a good point. Yeah.
1:12:36
And, and that's important, especially for young people,
1:12:38
man, I, I remember, I'm going to say I was famous for it, so
1:12:41
that's a very strong word. I would always, for my sprints
1:12:45
and jumpers Friday of Week 1 of practice, we would do some kind
1:12:49
of stadium workout. Let's just make up a workout.
1:12:50
Let's say it was 6 * 2 minutes. Just making that up.
1:12:53
Actually, it's 20 years ago, so I don't remember what it was,
1:12:55
but let's just say it was 6 by 2.
1:12:57
And then Week 2 we do maybe like 7 by two.
1:12:59
Week 3 we do 8 by two. But on the 4th week, my D load
1:13:03
week, I'd always go back to 6 minutes to I'd go back to the
1:13:06
original workout and and in that week 1, you know they were dying
1:13:08
stadiums, right? Most in shape person stadiums
1:13:11
suck right. So I would I'd make sure they
1:13:14
you know, at the end of that first Friday be like, oh, this
1:13:16
sucks, right. Like how you feeling?
1:13:17
Yeah, welcome to college. You know this kind of stuff like
1:13:19
really making sure they were hold on to this.
1:13:20
Remember it. And then on week 4 we do that
1:13:23
exact same workout 6 by 2 minutes and they would breeze
1:13:25
through it right because of adaptability, right and I'd go,
1:13:28
hey, remember just three weeks ago you threw up after this
1:13:31
workout. You were dying.
1:13:32
You tried to quit on you and all this stuff.
1:13:34
You've got to prove the young people, they're they're
1:13:37
naturally not pessimistic, but they're naturally distrustful.
1:13:41
I think even with a coach they chose, like they went to school
1:13:43
because of you. I I think you have to really
1:13:46
show them, prove every day that you actually know what you're
1:13:50
talking about. So with that throws, you go from
1:13:52
60 feet to 70 feet, it's like, yeah, you know, you listen to
1:13:55
coach. That was a good job.
1:13:56
Right Now what it's going to take to get to 80 and 90 and
1:13:58
160, I think there's continual. And I think that's all positive
1:14:02
too, to be honest with you. Yeah, now I agree mate.
1:14:05
It's, it's, it's definitely one, one thing that's that I've
1:14:11
learned over the years. It, it's, it's, it's where
1:14:14
people kind of gravitate to, you know, especially like with
1:14:17
coaching throws, like, you know, they have prior experience with
1:14:20
the discus in the, in the shot and you know, they're going to
1:14:23
see, you know, they're going to see improvement, right, But
1:14:24
they're not going to see that as much as like the hammer.
1:14:27
So like in, in years, this is all it's always been like I'm,
1:14:31
I'm bringing them here to be a shot putter.
1:14:32
I mean, they're built to be shot putters, right?
1:14:34
But I, I try to maximize, maximize points.
1:14:37
So I teach them to hammer and the weight and they'll see the
1:14:40
weight and hammer go far, you know, and they're still
1:14:43
improving obviously in the shot. And then now they're like,
1:14:45
coach, why? I'm actually a hammer thrower
1:14:47
now. And I'm like, no, no, no, no,
1:14:48
that's not what the plan was. I don't need you to focus on
1:14:51
that now just because you see this side moving.
1:14:53
So what? What's I love this I love?
1:14:57
I'm so always so curious about things and I know so little
1:15:00
about throws. What's more frustrating for you
1:15:04
is it so with when women come into your program, if they threw
1:15:08
50 feet with a 4K, well, they're still doing the 4K and same with
1:15:11
the 1K and the discus. So you're not going to see
1:15:16
typically you're not going to see the same increments as you
1:15:17
do when you introduce the hammer on day one.
1:15:19
And what's the hammer look like on day 100, right?
1:15:21
Just like you're just saying. And so that versus a guy that
1:15:26
comes in and maybe they threw 60 feet with a 12 pounder, but now
1:15:29
they get the 16 and that is that's 33% more boys.
1:15:32
That is a different event. And they throw 50 or maybe 48
1:15:37
for crying out loud. What's more, instead of saying
1:15:42
frustrating, I'm asking this way.
1:15:43
What's more challenging to you as a coach of helping that women
1:15:49
athletes see, yeah, I know we're not doing the same huge
1:15:52
increments like we're doing these other events, but we're
1:15:54
getting better. Or the guys who are like, bro, I
1:15:57
threw 60 and yeah, I know it's 16 lbs, but coach, I've haven't
1:15:59
thrown 48 feet since I was a freshman.
1:16:02
What's more challenging for you as a coach?
1:16:09
I guess I would say probably the the, the male thrower overcoming
1:16:13
because I have yet at least in my career, yet to get someone to
1:16:18
pull away from the hammer on the woman's side.
1:16:20
Like once they do it, they just love it so much that they don't
1:16:23
want to go away from it, at least of all the women I've
1:16:25
coached in the past. So I was kind of just been like,
1:16:28
all right, I guess that's just what it is.
1:16:30
I'm the guy said there's been hope, you know, of like I can
1:16:33
find that one guy like I had I had a really good guy that was
1:16:36
left for me when I first got there at upstate where I think
1:16:40
out of high school, he threw 53 and then he opened up at 54 with
1:16:44
the 16. Oh, the kid was just a mammoth.
1:16:46
I mean, they called him Baby Thor.
1:16:48
I mean, he was just a big dude, but I was like, whoa.
1:16:51
I was like, so that actually could happen, huh, Because
1:16:53
usually you take it takes about 18.
1:16:54
I was. Saying it's rare, right?
1:16:56
Yeah, that's rare. Like if you if you throw the
1:16:58
same in the 16 as you the 12 in the first year, like Oh my God,
1:17:00
like you didn't just do a good coaching job.
1:17:02
You did a great. Thing that was not me, that was,
1:17:05
that was between him, God and his genetics, you know, So that
1:17:08
was not me at all. Yeah, I love that.
1:17:10
That's called fake humbleness because it didn't do it the year
1:17:13
before. He you were his coach.
1:17:15
You had a hand in that. But you're right.
1:17:18
Don't discount genetics. I'm with you on that.
1:17:21
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too.
1:17:23
Like also, you know, my experience coaching men versus
1:17:26
women. Every woman that I've ever
1:17:28
coached, and I've coached some, you know, some pretty good
1:17:30
jumpers now, no matter how good they were, they all thought they
1:17:35
sucked. They all thought the other
1:17:36
people were better. Like I had to continually like
1:17:38
lift them up. Like, no, bro, you can actually
1:17:39
go to nationals. Heck, you could win nationals
1:17:42
with guys. And this is big generalities,
1:17:44
not everybody. But with guys, no matter if they
1:17:48
skip practice or late practice, or if they were, they all
1:17:50
thought no matter how good or bad, they all thought they were
1:17:53
going to be in the Olympic podium next year.
1:17:55
And it's like, bro, you need to like you late for practice two
1:17:57
days a week, you think you'd go on the podium Like you need to
1:18:00
like, it was almost like I had to like, knock them down a
1:18:03
little bit where with the women, I was always uplifting so I
1:18:06
could. That's where I think like with
1:18:07
the men, it's like, man, I threw 60 feet now I threw 40.
1:18:10
I haven't thrown that. And it's like, yeah, but that's
1:18:11
two different events, bro. The 16 and the 12 is that is not
1:18:14
the same, you know, that you could always like, like maybe
1:18:17
that actually makes it easier because I'm talking myself
1:18:19
another way because you got to continue to uplift them now.
1:18:21
But but I also wonder if like if a 18 year old boy, just their 18
1:18:24
year old man in college is like coach you, you're doing it
1:18:27
wrong. Like I'm not even throwing 60
1:18:28
anymore. It's like, bro, it's a different
1:18:29
event. You know, that could be
1:18:31
frustrating. I went through that with hurdles
1:18:34
that that always sucked. Yeah.
1:18:36
Yeah, I agree. I mean yeah, going from 30 nines
1:18:38
to 40 twos with a short with a short M seam is not not going to
1:18:41
be the easiest thing to do. Yeah, that's another one.
1:18:43
If you if you run the same, if you run your PR in the 30 nines
1:18:47
your first year in the 40 twos, Bravo, you did a great job.
1:18:50
That's why I'm always amazed at the the kids like, you know, pay
1:18:53
attention to the hurdles a lot. Obviously that run faster than
1:18:56
their high school PR over the 40 twos.
1:18:57
And I'm like, call my like that to me is like the real like you
1:19:01
want proof that coaching matters?
1:19:03
That's coaching. No genetics.
1:19:05
He was the the he had the genetics in him, but a coach had
1:19:09
to bring it out. You know, it's like, that's
1:19:11
amazing. OK.
1:19:12
How many years at Upstate and where and why do we go next?
1:19:18
So I did four years at Upstate, you know, just kind of throw a
1:19:22
little bit of background there as I actually started coaching
1:19:24
high jump there and how. Wait a minute.
1:19:27
How? That's my favorite event to
1:19:28
coach. How?
1:19:29
What? What in the world?
1:19:30
Why? Why are you my hammer guy
1:19:33
coaching high jump? What in the world?
1:19:35
So on my interview, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, trying to see,
1:19:38
OK, where can we improve? Where can I show some
1:19:41
improvement at upstate? So I can say, OK, this is where
1:19:43
we started, this is where we're going.
1:19:44
And on my interview, I, I negotiated with Carson.
1:19:48
I said, look, if I get off of this job, I got to coach high
1:19:51
jump because high jump is really weak in this conference and I
1:19:54
feel like it's an event that I can coach even I've never had
1:19:58
coached before. Yeah, what in the world?
1:20:01
I mean, look, we had two, we had two, almost 7 footage there at
1:20:04
the same time. So, you know, we had All
1:20:06
American there. He ended up jumping 71.
1:20:10
But yeah. And I mean, it was.
1:20:11
It helped me a lot. First of all, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:20:16
First of all, I love that you even had the bravery to do that.
1:20:19
I mean, when I interviewed with Sue Parks also Gill podcast slum
1:20:24
at Ball State, I was pretty much jumps in sprints guy except for
1:20:28
high jump. And I was like, I mean, I
1:20:29
remember in the interview almost arguing with Sue because she was
1:20:32
a high jumper back in the day. And so I was like, no, why don't
1:20:35
you take the high jump? She was the distance coach at
1:20:37
Ball State. That really good one.
1:20:39
I was like, you should do the high jump because you've you've
1:20:41
actually done it before. And she's like, no, I really
1:20:43
just want to focus on my distance kids.
1:20:45
I want you to you to coach. I was like, no, I it
1:20:48
intimidated. I was like, no, I don't think
1:20:50
so. I think it'd be better for the
1:20:52
program. I mean, this is my interview
1:20:54
bro, and I'm arguing she won. I coached high jump and
1:21:00
thankfully it became, like I said, my favorite event to
1:21:02
coach. But we had a blast.
1:21:04
But you have to learn it and it does transfer other events.
1:21:07
You you became a little bit of better javelin coach, huh?
1:21:11
Yeah, yeah. And I was I, I was able to
1:21:14
really expand my coaching. I coaching that event for for
1:21:17
those many years, so it was definitely very helpful.
1:21:21
I love that so well, that's a boy.
1:21:22
That's that's a trivia question. I'm I'm going to create like a
1:21:25
coach's trivia game one day and it's going to be like, well, you
1:21:28
know, Steven Chancha has known more for coaching throws.
1:21:32
Also coach this event really well.
1:21:34
And they would be like, all right, well, it has to be
1:21:36
something kind of related. So maybe it's a a long jump or
1:21:39
something. That's so cool.
1:21:41
Love it. OK, so four years, you're doing
1:21:44
well. You're expanding your coaching
1:21:46
prowess, you're coaching high jumpers, for crying out loud.
1:21:49
Why do we leave? Where do we go?
1:21:51
So no, I mean, we are my last year there.
1:21:54
The group did really, really well.
1:21:56
I just felt like it was time to leave while, you know, that the
1:21:59
iron was hot and I had gotten some offers during that summer
1:22:04
at some really good places. And I ended up wanting to try to
1:22:07
go down to Texas. And so I went to Abilene
1:22:09
Christian and, and worked for Miles Smith there.
1:22:12
And, you know, I was there for a year.
1:22:14
And during that time there, yeah, I mean, I I learned a hell
1:22:17
of a lot. I had amazing kids there that I
1:22:20
still miss to this day. I mean, they were just, it was,
1:22:23
it was an extremely easy transition, which I really
1:22:25
appreciate from a coaching perspective, like how easy that
1:22:28
transition was with with the athletes.
1:22:32
Evelyn Christian, Great school, great West Kitley, you know, but
1:22:35
that's cool on the map for sure. And Miles, one of my dear
1:22:38
friends, I love him to death. And so one year there and then
1:22:42
University of Delaware, which are you following the footsteps?
1:22:45
Who was the throws coach at University of Delaware right
1:22:48
before you? Derrell Hill.
1:22:50
It was drill. That's what I thought because I
1:22:53
wanted to talk about that because, you know, it's easy for
1:22:56
us to get enamored by other in order sport.
1:22:59
You know, I still like pinch myself that Jeremy Warner is
1:23:01
like a friend of mine now. It's like holy crowd I can do is
1:23:04
a gold. You know, it's amazing, right,
1:23:06
John Godina is a dear for like a very dear friend to me that that
1:23:09
boggled because I was like, why would he ever want to be friends
1:23:12
with me? And he's just one of the
1:23:13
greatest people, both those Jeremy and John Godina, by the
1:23:15
way, Gill podcast alums go back and listen to their episodes.
1:23:19
And so like with Darrell, like, you know, what an amazing
1:23:21
career. I mean, you know, he he just
1:23:24
picked the wrong country. And I can't even say the wrong
1:23:27
time frame to be born because pick a time frame that we're not
1:23:30
amazing in the shot. But but he was one of those.
1:23:32
He was, he's amazing. I couldn't imagine.
1:23:36
I'm trying to think if I did this.
1:23:39
I don't think I did. I think I got lucky.
1:23:41
I can't imagine replacing. And I know he wasn't there for
1:23:45
an extremely long time or anything, but you go in the most
1:23:51
of the athletes are the same. They were just coached by
1:23:55
Darrelle Hill, who threw the shot put to the moon.
1:23:59
You didn't any Oh, my sister may be terrible way.
1:24:06
Any feelings of inadequacy That's terrible.
1:24:09
Do you know where I'm getting out here, Steve?
1:24:11
You know what I'm saying? Like you're following a monster
1:24:13
in our sport. Those kids had to be, I'm
1:24:15
assuming those kids had to be enamored withdrawal.
1:24:17
Like, man, this guy done it all, you know, and then here comes
1:24:21
good coach. I'm not saying that, but here
1:24:23
comes Steve Sanchez from Abilene Christian.
1:24:26
By the way, nobody in the Fighting Blue Hands knows where
1:24:29
Abilene Christian is. Yeah, I mean, my, my head coach,
1:24:34
Josh Haman, he did an amazing job of hyping me up.
1:24:37
I mean. Yeah.
1:24:39
Yeah, I mean, he, he, he said, look, this is our guy and this
1:24:42
is, this is who we want. You know, I, I appreciate him
1:24:46
greatly because, I mean, the support he's given me here is
1:24:49
second to none, honestly. I mean, the support that we have
1:24:51
here, the things that we can offer to these kids here is just
1:24:54
amazing. There's a reason why we're
1:24:56
number one in the entire NCAA and student athlete happiness.
1:25:00
Is that right? Yes, that's an actual step.
1:25:03
I would have thought you'd been close to the bottom because of
1:25:06
how cold it is there. That's my own.
1:25:08
That's my that's my own, that's my own.
1:25:11
I want to point out something you just said there because I
1:25:14
think it's really important. You said Josh, the head coach
1:25:18
really hyped you up earlier when you talked about what makes for
1:25:22
you your opinion, what makes a good head coach.
1:25:23
You talked about support and there's some easy ways to like
1:25:27
think about that, you know, budget for your implements
1:25:30
scholarship. Those are, you know, I don't
1:25:33
want to say there's a table stakes, but you know, I love
1:25:36
that Josh was like, hey, OK, I understand we had a bigger than
1:25:41
life personality in person and Doral here, but boy, those kids
1:25:45
need to buy. That's cool.
1:25:47
He's no longer the coach. I got this new guy and I need
1:25:50
them to be successful, which means I he needs to be
1:25:52
successful. It sounds like he saw that like,
1:25:55
Hey, I need to make sure I need to be he.
1:25:57
It feels like he realized he could either be a positive part
1:26:01
of the transition or he could be like, well, good luck.
1:26:06
It's your job, Steve, to get him on board.
1:26:08
Like he actually like felt like, oh, I can be a an important part
1:26:11
of that puzzle. Bravo.
1:26:13
That's that is support. Yeah, and I mean he, he told,
1:26:18
you know, when he introduced me to the team.
1:26:19
I mean, he, I'm here right on my resume, like as, as if I was
1:26:22
getting introduced at, you know, the Bulls game.
1:26:24
I mean, I was like, Gee, I didn't realize.
1:26:26
That you're like, wait, who who Wait, did you hire someone else?
1:26:28
Who the? Yeah, no, and seriously, I was
1:26:30
like, Dang, he brought back some stats like so from back like, I
1:26:32
mean, when I first started coaching, you know, and.
1:26:35
And I was like, all right, I appreciate that, you know,
1:26:38
because, I mean, he understood, you know, I mean, I had some
1:26:40
really big shoes to fill and. Literally.
1:26:43
Yeah, right. But no, I mean, I mean, it
1:26:46
hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been the worst
1:26:48
transition. And and you know, I do
1:26:50
appreciate them still wanting to be a part of our Blue Hen
1:26:53
family, you know, because I told him, I said, look, you know,
1:26:55
like I'm when I first got the job here, the first call I made
1:26:58
to them was in the first statement, I said to them, I
1:27:00
said, look, I know I didn't recruit you, but you are going
1:27:02
to be welcomed here as if I recruited you from day one.
1:27:06
You know, I made that very, very clear that, you know, that I
1:27:09
wanted them to be a part of this.
1:27:10
You know, it's, it's not just a, you know, OK, bye now.
1:27:13
You know, I'm making my own kids and like, OK, if you want to be
1:27:15
part of this, let's do it. Yes, that that's boy, what a
1:27:20
high level of emotional intelligence to realize that,
1:27:22
you know, again, you're dealing with kids 18 to 22 year old,
1:27:26
they have their own insecurities.
1:27:27
So here our coach leaves. Here's this new guy.
1:27:30
What's his ideas? I finally got figured out what
1:27:33
Darrell wanted from me. Now here's this new guy.
1:27:35
Is he going to you know, we all hear this stereotypical every
1:27:38
coach is going to bring in their own kids and all this kind of
1:27:41
stuff. And that honestly happens little
1:27:43
to none in that first year guys, even with the transfer portal.
1:27:48
So you realize like, OK, I need them to realize I know you don't
1:27:53
know me. It's day one, but we got to
1:27:55
figure out how to go from day one to day 100 quick.
1:27:58
And one of those ways is I could be like, Hey, you're you're part
1:28:00
of it. I don't care if I recruit you or
1:28:01
not. I'm act like I did recruit you
1:28:02
and we're going to work together right now.
1:28:05
Day one, not get to know you about day one.
1:28:07
We are your coach, athlete, done.
1:28:12
Yep. You know, yeah, man, that's
1:28:13
actually what I took almost verbatim what I said.
1:28:15
Like, look, like, dude, you have nothing to worry about.
1:28:18
Like, we are hitting this together.
1:28:19
Let's make this. Let's make the best of this.
1:28:21
That's so smart. And then a couple that on top of
1:28:24
the way Josh handled it too, man, that's I don't know.
1:28:28
I've heard of certainly worse transitions, Boss, that's that's
1:28:33
really healthy. I love that.
1:28:35
I could see why maybe the entire school is the happiest student
1:28:38
athlete body or whatever, but certainly the track team has to
1:28:41
have some high positivity, you know, part of a team attitude
1:28:46
and atmosphere there as well. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, the
1:28:50
things that we offer here, I mean, is, you know, it's it's
1:28:54
it's amazing that we have all these things.
1:28:56
We're very, very fortunate. And so that was one of the other
1:28:58
big reasons why I took this job because I was like, we have all
1:29:00
of this. I was like, yeah.
1:29:01
So, so tell me more. I'm very biased in regards to
1:29:04
like, yeah, I think I've been to Delaware once because I took the
1:29:07
wrong turn on a Turnpike and it's like, crap, I'm in
1:29:10
Delaware. I got to turn back around and go
1:29:11
back to Philly or something. I don't know.
1:29:12
I don't know much about Delaware, certainly don't know
1:29:15
much about University of Delaware.
1:29:16
Tell me about athletics, the athletic program, the track and
1:29:19
field program. When you say you got all these
1:29:20
cool things, what does what does that mean?
1:29:23
So, so pretty much our, our throwing facilities pretty much,
1:29:26
you know, I think it's like less than 7 years old.
1:29:28
So everything, you know, the cage and everything like that
1:29:30
looks great. You know, we have the implements
1:29:32
that we need. You know, Darrell was building
1:29:34
it up really well. And the previous coach before me
1:29:37
was Coach Larry Pratt. I believe he was coaching here
1:29:39
since 1963 and then he left in 2021.
1:29:43
So, you know, almost 60 years the coaching pros here.
1:29:47
So he did an amazing job. He came by our practice a couple
1:29:50
weeks ago and, you know, definitely pay some homage to
1:29:53
him because, you know, I was like, hey, thank you.
1:29:56
Because, you know, you have this because every alum that I've
1:29:58
ever met, they always say these great things about Coach Pratt.
1:30:02
And so I'm like, heck yeah, he did a great job then, you know,
1:30:04
coaching them. So, but as far as like, you know
1:30:07
what like amenities that we have, I mean, we have student,
1:30:11
student athlete dining hall, you know, we, we have this amazing
1:30:15
weight room that was donated by Joe Flacco, $9 million weight
1:30:18
room. That's right.
1:30:20
He's OK. That's probably how I really
1:30:22
know University Delaware that this 6 foot 7 stud that ended up
1:30:27
going to NFL and being I don't know if he'll will he be a Hall
1:30:30
of Famer, you think? I don't know.
1:30:31
I mean, he's a stud, obviously. Yeah.
1:30:32
Well, here's the. Other 1 though.
1:30:33
There's the other two, Yeah. Who?
1:30:36
Who? Here are the other two alums
1:30:37
that you might know of Rich Gannon.
1:30:40
No shot, really. Yep, Rich Cannon and who else?
1:30:44
And and I'm going to butcher her name but Elidon.
1:30:48
Elidon WMWMEA basketball player believe she's like third all
1:30:53
time in WME history and scoring. Yeah, forgive me, I I don't pay
1:30:56
attention to I'm not sexist. I'm going to say I don't pay
1:30:59
attention to WNBA because I also don't pay attention to the NBAI
1:31:02
have no effing clue about basketball.
1:31:04
So. OK, so I'm I'm equally
1:31:06
basketball disinterested. Yeah, that's cool though.
1:31:09
Wow. And.
1:31:10
Then Joe Biden and his wife. It's that I feel like I did know
1:31:15
if somewhere that was in a trivia.
1:31:16
I do remember that. That's so cool.
1:31:18
But so how? Like how many students?
1:31:20
How big is this school? Think we're 27 though 27,000.
1:31:24
Oh, that's good size. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:31:27
What's the most popular majors? Like, what are, you know, people
1:31:30
go to Delaware because they're going to be business majors,
1:31:33
education nurses. So it is, it is, it is our
1:31:36
business, business and PT. So I believe we have the number
1:31:38
one PT school in the country and then our Business School I
1:31:42
believe is only second to war right now in this in this area.
1:31:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a heck of an area
1:31:47
for crying out. That's where all the business
1:31:49
schools are. That's so cool, man.
1:31:52
And this is your first year? Yeah.
1:31:55
Yep. So yeah, as I say, so when we're
1:31:57
recording this, I was thinking I was like, you've been there for
1:31:58
maybe nine months, right? How you enjoying it, man?
1:32:01
Like like personally, like like beyond coaching.
1:32:04
We've we've talked a lot about coaching.
1:32:05
You had to move to a different location.
1:32:07
That means, you know, learning new friends and neighbors and
1:32:11
where do I go to get milk and where do I go to blow off steam,
1:32:16
etcetera. And how you enjoying being there
1:32:18
in Delaware? No, it's not bad.
1:32:20
I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a really vibrant college town, but
1:32:24
Wilmington's only 10-15 minutes away, you know, So if I need, if
1:32:28
I need that part of my life, I can go there.
1:32:31
Philly's only 35 minutes away. You know, New York, NY City's an
1:32:35
hour and 45 away, and the other way it's Baltimore and
1:32:39
Washington. So I'm in a really good area of
1:32:41
like getting to where I need to go to but not having to bring it
1:32:44
back with me. Yeah, Yeah.
1:32:47
Are you, you mentioned earlier that maybe at this age and stage
1:32:50
you're kind of thinking that New York City and family and friends
1:32:54
and all that kind of the pull is maybe getting a little bit more
1:32:56
than when you were younger. You're an hour and a half ish
1:32:59
feel like that's close enough or you feel like.
1:33:01
Maybe, maybe you'd like to be a little bit closer.
1:33:05
Depends on the opportunity. I wouldn't mind being back in
1:33:08
the city, you know, for the right opportunity.
1:33:11
But yeah, just really depends. You know, like I said, I'm not
1:33:14
taking another job that doesn't have a cage and there's not many
1:33:17
hammer. Cage.
1:33:19
So, you know, I have to make sure they have a hammer cage.
1:33:23
But yeah, no, I mean, I mean, this is actually kind of
1:33:25
perfect. My dad lives in Pennsylvania.
1:33:28
He's only an hour and a half away.
1:33:29
My, my mom, you know, is an hour and, what, 2 hours away exactly
1:33:33
from where I am in New York City.
1:33:35
So yeah, no, I think this is like kind of like the perfect
1:33:40
spot where I don't want the city because I mean, I do like the
1:33:43
city, but I I don't want to take it with me because I hate
1:33:44
traffic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, You know, so.
1:33:46
So, you know, this is kind of the perfect spot of like if I
1:33:49
need to go to a major airport 32 minutes from the front door to
1:33:52
Philly. So, you know, so that's perfect
1:33:54
for. Me, I like the Philly.
1:33:55
They've done a lot of renovation there.
1:33:56
I do. I used to, I flew into Philly a
1:33:59
long time ago and it was just, it felt like very dungy and old
1:34:04
and just wasn't a great and they've done a lot of lot of
1:34:05
work there. That's awesome, man.
1:34:08
I love that you're closer to family.
1:34:10
You know, now it's not a plane ride to go see them.
1:34:12
It's a car ride. And, and I agree with you about
1:34:14
that big city stuff. My wife is from Chicago and when
1:34:18
we go to visit, it's cool to visit.
1:34:19
I mean, we go do the Shedd Aquarium with the kids and all
1:34:21
that kind of stuff. And then invariably we'll get
1:34:23
stuck in traffic and my wife will look at me and she goes
1:34:25
just remind me of this right here.
1:34:28
If I ever say I want to move back to Chicago, like like,
1:34:32
sure, we had fun over there, but this is every day we are in
1:34:35
traffic and all the crap that goes with that.
1:34:39
Steve, Man, that's awesome. Hey, I want to spend the last,
1:34:43
you know, maybe up to 15 minutes here, something new that we're
1:34:46
doing here in the podcast. So we love your journey.
1:34:48
Thank you so much again for being so open and authentic.
1:34:51
I love the what's really cool actually about your your journey
1:34:54
as I'm kind of thinking about it, is that you're still, so I'm
1:34:57
going to say young into it, you know, and you've had a lot of
1:34:59
experience, especially because you started so early, but you're
1:35:03
still like, you've got a long runway ahead of you of coaching.
1:35:07
And so for me, it's going to be cool to be on the sidelines and
1:35:10
watch your journey continue. It doesn't just because it's on
1:35:13
wax here now with this podcast, it ain't stopping.
1:35:16
You're going to continue to grow as a as a coach and as a person
1:35:20
in in this world. So I really love seeing that.
1:35:22
So I'd like to pick your brain a little bit.
1:35:27
You get to pick the topic. But I know people and I know
1:35:30
coaches. There's always something.
1:35:32
Do you remember, do you ever watch Family Guy?
1:35:34
And he used to have this segment on the yeah, you know where I'm
1:35:36
going to. This grinds my gears, right?
1:35:38
And I don't necessarily what you know, you're upset about, but
1:35:40
there's something that you are paying attention to right now,
1:35:44
whether it's, I don't want to bias you.
1:35:46
What, what are you thinking about?
1:35:47
Whether it's on social media, You're, you're, I know you're in
1:35:50
a text group with other coaches. What's got your What's got your
1:35:54
your, your, your mind these days on track and field?
1:35:58
Man, I guess coaches putting themselves before the athletes
1:36:05
as far as recognition. What's that mean?
1:36:07
Yeah. You know, I've learned over the
1:36:11
years that, you know, like whenever someone they hate
1:36:14
great, great job coach, you know, I'm always telling him
1:36:16
this. I'm always like, I just drive
1:36:17
the van or I just ordered the sandwiches.
1:36:19
You know, that's like my thing to say.
1:36:21
All right. I'm so glad you said that
1:36:25
because as you said that, I was like, oh, I can bring up Ken
1:36:29
Harden. Do you know Ken Harden?
1:36:31
Yeah. Yeah.
1:36:33
Ken says that exact same thing. You might have picked it up from
1:36:35
Ken. Ken's very famous for saying the
1:36:37
I'm just a bus driver. In fact, someone there was like
1:36:40
a maybe one of his athletes birthday was like yesterday and
1:36:43
on social media. It's a thanks for Mr. drive the
1:36:46
bus for something. I don't know what it was.
1:36:48
Maybe it was Ken's birthday. I don't know.
1:36:50
I can't stand that statement, Steve.
1:36:55
I know that really doesn't surprise you.
1:37:00
No, I mean, it's just a matter of like deflecting, like, OK,
1:37:07
like I'm very big on when things go right, it's their fault.
1:37:10
When things go wrong, it's my fault.
1:37:13
You know? I just want the recognition to
1:37:15
be. OK with that.
1:37:17
Yeah, I just want the recognition to always be towards
1:37:20
the athletes because I mean, remember.
1:37:22
I'm OK with that 90. Percent of the work, you know,
1:37:25
because I think that's one thing that we've lost, at least with
1:37:27
the younger, younger coaches, is that is really not us.
1:37:31
Oh, my favorite is this. My favorite is you're now of
1:37:33
that age that you're talking about these younger coaches.
1:37:35
OK, Yeah. All right, Steven.
1:37:38
Like, I feel like, you know, there's there's there's just a
1:37:40
lot of coaches out there right now.
1:37:43
They're like, yeah, you know, I, I took this person from this
1:37:45
person, but brother, that wasn't, or since, you know, that
1:37:47
wasn't you, that that was, that was new, new adaptations and
1:37:51
genetics. They improved because you did
1:37:54
have consistency in training. That wasn't because you gave
1:37:57
them four by two hundreds and. You know.
1:38:01
Like that was going to happen regardless.
1:38:03
OK, I love you. You're not 100% how you like
1:38:11
that confidence filter. Like you're like Mike Hooter.
1:38:14
You'd even tell me this. All right, You are correct.
1:38:20
And you always remember I'm biased.
1:38:21
I, I am the world's biggest track and field coach,
1:38:24
cheerleader advocate. I I certainly don't believe
1:38:27
track coaches can do nothing wrong.
1:38:29
But I think track coaches, track and field coaches do a lot
1:38:32
correct, right. I'm with you.
1:38:33
It's not 100% the coach. You're, you're exactly right.
1:38:38
The problem I have with this, I'm just the bus driver.
1:38:41
I'm just the guy that orders the sandwiches statement because I
1:38:45
don't think you actually believe that 100%.
1:38:48
And here's why I don't think that you believe that when I say
1:38:50
you, I am actually talking about you.
1:38:52
But in the general, even Ken Harden, I don't believe he
1:38:56
believes this because if you truly believed that statement,
1:39:01
my friend, you wouldn't do level twos.
1:39:06
You wouldn't call up a a mentor and be like, hey, I'm having
1:39:10
this issue trying to get this guy to go from three to four
1:39:12
turns or this one kids block is not that strong.
1:39:17
We've done this and this and that.
1:39:18
You wouldn't, you wouldn't try to improve because what's it
1:39:23
matter, Steve? It's genetics, it's cotton.
1:39:27
All those things you just say, oh, it's continuity.
1:39:29
It's luck. We sometimes forget how luck is
1:39:32
a part of the equation, boys and girls.
1:39:34
Sometimes luck staying away from being injury is the biggest luck
1:39:38
that we can have, right? You've seen how injuries can
1:39:41
stop the best athletes in the world.
1:39:44
But when we say so, I don't really believe that.
1:39:46
You believe that and I don't believe Kim believes that.
1:39:48
And I don't believe all the other people who say that
1:39:50
believe that. And so when you say it to me, it
1:39:55
belittles the profession because I look at I'm going to name a
1:40:01
list and there's a hundred more I could add to it.
1:40:03
I look at Mouse Holloway, I look at Jim Sprecher, I look at Flow
1:40:08
down at Texas. I look at Carol, I look name
1:40:12
Amelia's Petros right here in Champaign.
1:40:17
And they take kids that are good, some of them.
1:40:20
That's so good, to be real Frank with, you know, on the, the, the
1:40:24
spectrum of, of athletics and make them really good.
1:40:30
Did they have to have the genetics first?
1:40:33
Yes. What what's the, you know, the
1:40:35
old school saying before you and people still say you don't make
1:40:39
chicken salad out of Yeah, you know, the rest of that.
1:40:43
I don't like to do editing, so I'm not going to say the rest of
1:40:45
that. I don't want Mama Sanchez to be
1:40:47
mad at me for cursing. And Steven, I'm with you, Miss
1:40:50
Sanchez, Miss Sanchez, coaching matters.
1:40:57
And you know that your life was changed because coaching matters
1:41:00
and you change lives because coaching matters.
1:41:04
So my challenge is to quit saying that.
1:41:08
Stop today. I want to, I need to actually
1:41:10
have a conversation with Ken about this.
1:41:12
I beat around the Bush. He's come up on this podcast a
1:41:14
lot. I'm about to actually confront
1:41:16
him one day. I love him.
1:41:17
He's such a good dude. The other aspect, here's what
1:41:21
I'm curious about. When you say you've seen some of
1:41:23
the younger coaches and I love that you're at an age where you
1:41:25
can say that dude, that's so funny to me.
1:41:28
I love that. Do you think that you are
1:41:32
perceiving that because 2026 coach grew up with it's a part
1:41:39
of their fabric social media where in 2010 when you graduated
1:41:46
high school, brother, did you have any social media?
1:41:49
Did you have Facebook? That might have been the only
1:41:51
thing really available. There was no Instagram.
1:41:53
There was no TikTok, there was no Twitter like so.
1:41:58
Maybe BBM? Like no, that's not social
1:42:01
media, but like it was more like the instant messaging error.
1:42:03
Yeah, yeah. But that's not social media.
1:42:05
That's a that that is a component of social media.
1:42:08
I'm with you, but it's not social media.
1:42:09
Did you even have a smartphone when you graduated high school?
1:42:12
Oh yeah, most. Yeah.
1:42:13
BlackBerry. Oh, yeah.
1:42:14
Nice. That was my first one.
1:42:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which that was primitive
1:42:17
smartphone, though. OK, let's be real frank here.
1:42:20
Do you ever accidentally click on the Internet?
1:42:21
Like oh crap, I got to get off Internet on the.
1:42:24
Phone. That's crazy.
1:42:26
Yeah, I love the the keyboard though, of the BlackBerry, still
1:42:30
undefeated. I do.
1:42:31
I do miss that a little bit. But a kid like I'm trying to
1:42:35
think of and we're not throwing this person on the bus.
1:42:37
I know this kid and I met him as an athlete and it's in his first
1:42:40
year coaching. So I'm using him as an example.
1:42:42
I love this kid. Have you met Thomas Kitchell?
1:42:45
Just finished up throwing it North Carolina and now the
1:42:48
coaching there. A guy like Thomas, I love that
1:42:51
kid. He, he actually reached us out
1:42:54
to us about a job and luckily we didn't have a job because that
1:42:57
means he got into coaching and I think he's going to be a
1:42:59
fantastic coach. But I got to meet him and got to
1:43:02
know him and a fascinating young man.
1:43:04
Love this guy. He's going to be so successful.
1:43:05
I boy, I, I love this guy a lot actually.
1:43:09
He grew up with that smartphone in his hand, but he only knows
1:43:14
Twitter and now LinkedIn and things like that.
1:43:17
So there's going to be more posts from him.
1:43:20
I think about look what Susie did.
1:43:23
Look what Johnny did versus you. I could see you doing less.
1:43:28
It might say you, you a guy got your age and stage doing less.
1:43:31
Do you think you're maybe perceiving young coaches?
1:43:35
Oh, OK, push back brother. This is part of the the week.
1:43:39
Good with this. There's two things I've seen.
1:43:41
All right, love it. Let's go the verbiage, OK?
1:43:45
Hey, when it's my athlete did this and you know, I was very
1:43:49
possessive. I'm I'm with you on the my
1:43:52
versus our I'm with you. I I work hard here going hey,
1:43:56
this isn't my sales team. This is our sales team.
1:43:58
Yeah, I'm with you on that. My athletes.
1:43:59
I go, you don't first of all, that shows ownership and like
1:44:02
you don't own these these young people.
1:44:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know sometimes people say
1:44:06
and they don't they're not actually meaning it that way.
1:44:08
It's just how we talk, you know, but I'm with you.
1:44:11
I think more people should be conscious of our team.
1:44:14
We I'm with you on that. OK, I'm, I'm with you now.
1:44:18
I wish I could now I wish I could roll back this interview,
1:44:20
though, and see how many times you said it.
1:44:22
I don't I I can't think of a time you you might not have.
1:44:25
So I'm I'm going to be fair. I.
1:44:26
Make a very conscious effort not to.
1:44:28
If you're listening to this right now, so it's fresh on your
1:44:32
mind, tweet me at Mike Cunningham or you know, you know
1:44:35
me on Instagram or in Sanchez. Get him.
1:44:39
Show us with grace, by the way, because again, it's very easy to
1:44:44
save my athletes and you don't actually mean it as the intent
1:44:48
is not possession, etcetera. But I'm 100% with you on that,
1:44:50
Steve. I'm I'm, I'm good with that.
1:44:52
What's your second? What's a verbiage?
1:44:54
So verbiage and then, you know, if you post pictures, wear
1:44:57
pictures, videos, if you're in every single picture yourself,
1:45:01
is the I mean, as the coach, excuse me, that's that's not a
1:45:04
that's not a that's not a good thing.
1:45:07
You're the background. You're the background dancer.
1:45:08
Not but how? Many You're a background dancer.
1:45:11
I like that you're not the bus driver, you're the background
1:45:14
Now that I might get more into if you say, you know what, I'm
1:45:18
just a background dancer and I might actually be hard for me to
1:45:20
disagree with that. The bus driver thing, I'm going
1:45:22
to be anti OK, but how many? OK, I'm with, I'm with you,
1:45:27
Steve, I'm with you, I'm with you.
1:45:29
Could it be that you don't know the intent of their posting and
1:45:35
maybe they think that them posting that and them being in
1:45:39
the pictures is because of recruiting?
1:45:42
They want high school juniors and seniors to see like, oh, I
1:45:45
like the yeah, we, we in business, we say in sales, we
1:45:48
say people like to do business with people they like and people
1:45:51
that are like them. And sales is 1° away from
1:45:57
recruiting. OK.
1:45:58
So a lot of recruits, I think, like to be coached by people
1:46:02
that they like and that are like them.
1:46:05
OK. Oh, maybe a chance to no.
1:46:07
No, no, no. I mean, I got a but you.
1:46:09
Can see it. You can see it.
1:46:10
Please give me a rebuttal, I love it.
1:46:12
I mean, are we sign with places because of the coach or we sign
1:46:15
with places because of the university?
1:46:16
I mean, I, I thought it was, are you, are you an alum of Mike,
1:46:20
you know Mike Cunningham or, or, or are you an alum of the
1:46:24
University of Delaware? Steve, don't get Pollyannish on
1:46:27
me. You, I know you say, hey, you
1:46:33
should pick the school that is right for you because you never
1:46:35
know. The coach could be gone
1:46:37
tomorrow. You know, they're picking
1:46:40
because of you, my friend. There may be other factors.
1:46:46
No, I have never heard of a recruit going.
1:46:48
You know, I didn't really. I don't really like this coach.
1:46:51
I'm not even sure they're going to make me better.
1:46:54
But boy, University of Mike Cunningham has my major.
1:46:58
They have this cool rec center, what?
1:47:01
Whatever other, you know. I met my sports management
1:47:05
professor and wow, they're amazing.
1:47:08
No one ever has said that, Sir. But is that, is that why we have
1:47:12
this issue right now with the transfer portal because people
1:47:14
are signing, we're coaches and not the school?
1:47:16
Steve, I wish we'd have started this conversation an hour ago
1:47:19
because I believe that 100% that, yeah.
1:47:23
Why can't we be different? I No.
1:47:25
I'm with you. I'm with you.
1:47:26
I'm with you. I think I, I, I'm ready.
1:47:30
You ready for me to take off a lot of coaches.
1:47:32
Let's do it. I wonder if the transfer portal
1:47:36
isn't so big. Part of it is culture.
1:47:38
Like now it's just kind of cool to be in the transfer portal
1:47:40
even if you don't want to transfer.
1:47:41
So a little bit of its culture so that, you know, the one thing
1:47:45
is never the one thing that is a part of the, I think a part of
1:47:47
the equation. The other part is because I, I,
1:47:50
I deal with this now in the private sector, you know, I
1:47:52
interview people for jobs, right?
1:47:54
We're getting real close to hire a new guy for our construction
1:47:57
division in recruiting. I'm sorry.
1:48:01
In interviews, it's this song and dance, this game, this play.
1:48:05
The the person who's being interviewed goes, OK, Mike just
1:48:09
asked me this. What does he want the answer to
1:48:11
be? How does he want me to answer
1:48:13
this question? The reality is I want you to
1:48:16
tell me your F and truth because if it's not what I'm looking
1:48:18
for, then I could say no to you. And by the way, we both are
1:48:22
happier. You didn't get the job.
1:48:23
You didn't want this job. If, if I, if, if, if your
1:48:26
reality is I, I like to do XY and Z and then our reality is we
1:48:30
do AB and C. We've just been miserable.
1:48:33
And you'd you'd been gone in a year or two.
1:48:34
It's no different than the track.
1:48:36
I think sometimes coaches and recruits put on a show during
1:48:42
the recruiting process and we don't actually get to know who
1:48:44
coach Sanchez is and we don't get to really know who Billy the
1:48:48
recruit is. And then when we show up on day
1:48:50
one and it's hard to fake, it's hard to fake not being yourself.
1:48:54
That's it's the thing we know the best is how to be ourselves.
1:48:56
So we're eventually going to be ourselves.
1:48:59
And then it's like, oh crap, I told Coach Sanchez I'm never
1:49:03
late. I'm the most dedicated thrower
1:49:05
there is. And the reality is I'm late
1:49:07
sometimes. And now Coach Sanchez is pissed
1:49:09
off at me because I'm late and he told and I told he thinks I'm
1:49:12
the during the interview process.
1:49:14
He told me I told him I'm always on time.
1:49:17
And now anger and resentment that you all the things start
1:49:19
building up and then it's like you know what you need to, you
1:49:22
need to transfer or you know what?
1:49:24
I need to go to a different coach.
1:49:25
Coach Sanchez changed, right? Bull crap.
1:49:28
We play this game, dude. And I think, I don't think it's
1:49:32
the university side because I honestly, yeah, OK, hold on.
1:49:36
You've been at, you know, a couple of Juco's.
1:49:38
You went to Limestone, Upstate King Abilene, Delaware or maybe
1:49:44
missing something. You went to a lot of schools.
1:49:45
Can you honestly tell me the school not weather factors, not
1:49:50
accents, not food, that's those are regional things.
1:49:55
Can you honestly tell me there's a major difference between those
1:49:57
schools? I mean, I used to use a pretty
1:50:01
different place, but. Sure, sure, sure, sure.
1:50:05
I'm with you on that. But Abilene Christian had
1:50:07
professors who cared and taught and probably had some professors
1:50:10
that didn't maybe phoned it in. Upstate had some professors that
1:50:14
were amazing, passionate it probably some of that phoned it
1:50:17
in. Delaware probably has some
1:50:19
amazing professors, amazing facilities, but maybe lack in I
1:50:22
don't know XYZ. But upstate also didn't have the
1:50:27
school is school 80% of that's true.
1:50:32
Because I, I again, I'm with you.
1:50:33
There are some, you know, whether it's a religious school
1:50:35
or an Ivy League school or, you know, if you're going to be an
1:50:37
architect, there's probably only a few schools you probably
1:50:39
should go to for architecture. And not everybody has
1:50:41
architecture and stuff like that.
1:50:43
But I'm 100% with you, Steve on. I think there's more to look.
1:50:47
I think there's more thumbs to point than fingers on this
1:50:49
transfer portal thing. Are you, are you seeing a lot of
1:50:54
transfer portal at, at a Delaware both you know, people
1:50:57
going in and people coming in. Well, well with football
1:51:02
particularly, I think, I think we had the highest return rate
1:51:09
in the in conference. So the so the least amount of
1:51:11
people Porter Portal and out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:51:14
That's, well, that goes to your number one satisfaction.
1:51:17
I mean, that means people, not just football, but people like,
1:51:20
like the school and everything. Yeah, yeah.
1:51:22
Yeah, I mean, obviously basketball is a different animal
1:51:25
because that one's really rampant.
1:51:27
I think people just do it. Just do it.
1:51:29
Yeah, that I, I think that's a part of it.
1:51:32
I really do, man. I think these kids, I think it's
1:51:34
become culture. Like it's almost like a if you
1:51:37
have a teammate, like man, I'm going to the portal and you look
1:51:39
at your teammate like you're staying like you're the weird
1:51:42
one for state, you know, and in reality also, I say that, but in
1:51:45
the area isn't the reality You tell me you're I don't see the
1:51:49
transfer portal isn't the reality that actually I know
1:51:52
it's it is a lot of people transferring, but isn't the
1:51:54
reality that it's still a minority of people?
1:52:00
I mean, I still I say a good bit matriculate, you know, to to new
1:52:04
places. So you know, I'd say half and
1:52:07
half. I mean, I don't think it's do.
1:52:08
You think 50% of kids are? Yeah, but that's what I'm
1:52:13
saying. I don't even think it's half.
1:52:16
I think it's less than I'm making these things up St.
1:52:19
And you are way more involved in this than I am because I I don't
1:52:21
even see the freaking portal. But I'm look, you know, I don't
1:52:23
pay attention to the athletes. Mostly I'll pay attention to the
1:52:25
coaches, but I don't I, I don't know.
1:52:28
I just don't see for track now. I can't watch a college football
1:52:32
game without the announcers telling me every single other
1:52:34
school the kid went to. I mean, kind of like, who cares,
1:52:36
guys? Let's move on to their ear now.
1:52:38
I'm tired of hearing all their other former schools, but track.
1:52:41
I didn't I, I bet it's less than 5%.
1:52:43
I don't know. I feel like someone's going to
1:52:45
call me out and that's that's fine.
1:52:47
I don't think it's very much. Yeah.
1:52:49
I mean, I mean that's what I've heard is the is the stats.
1:52:52
But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I've seen, at
1:52:55
least from the people that I've kind of watched, they don't go
1:53:00
back, so they go somewhere else, you know what I'm saying?
1:53:03
So I can't see it that way like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:53:05
Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
1:53:06
Yeah. Who comes back?
1:53:07
Yeah. Yeah.
1:53:08
Louis Hinchcliffe came back. That's just funny.
1:53:11
Yeah. Yeah.
1:53:12
OK, brother. Hey, we're past our time.
1:53:15
I love this. This is why I'm trying to do
1:53:17
this at the end because first of all, for me to learn and
1:53:19
honestly and for a little bit of me to be able to push back on
1:53:21
some things out there like that's I the statement is, is
1:53:25
stupid, Steve, not you the drive the bus statement.
1:53:28
I can I'm glad. I'm so when you said that I was
1:53:30
like, oh hell yeah, we about that because I will always push
1:53:34
back on that. Steve, you are way more than a
1:53:38
bus driver, my friend. The actions that you make.
1:53:41
Here's what's so cool, brother. 99% of the kids that you coach
1:53:45
from today to the rest of your career are not going to go pro,
1:53:48
but 100% of them are going to go on to become moms and dads and
1:53:51
husbands and wives and business owners and coaches and many
1:53:54
things in between. And that, that positive impact
1:53:57
that you make as a coach. Remember what coach Joe did with
1:54:00
you? Coach Joe said, hey, man, let's
1:54:03
be real here a little bit. Probably not going to NFL,
1:54:05
probably not you 864. You may not be setting the world
1:54:08
record here, but you know what? You're a coach.
1:54:09
And that was like, Oh, he sees it that I, I, I'm, I'm actually
1:54:13
right about what I felt inside. Someone else sees it.
1:54:16
That's what you do for these other 18 to 22 year old kids.
1:54:22
You help them believe in themselves, you help them see
1:54:25
things that matter, that are actually important out there.
1:54:29
And that, my friend, that positive impact that you make on
1:54:32
young people, it's immeasurable. That is the contribution that
1:54:36
you make to society. And to pull that down to being a
1:54:38
bus driver, and I love bus driver, this ain't about being a
1:54:41
bus driver, guys and gals, diminishes the profession.
1:54:44
You're in an amazing profession. You're lifting the profession up
1:54:48
by your actions. So let's keep moving the
1:54:51
profession forward. Agreed.
1:54:52
Can you agree with that? I totally agree.
1:54:55
Steve, I love you to death, man. Thank you so much.
1:54:57
The most important and most valuable thing that you can give
1:54:59
me is your time, my friend. You're busy, you're in season.
1:55:02
You got a freaking meet coming up that you're hosting.
1:55:04
You got to figure that's that's way harder than going to meet.
1:55:07
You got a lot of work to do. So really grateful for your time
1:55:10
sitting down with us to go over your journey.
1:55:12
It's an amazing journey. I'm so thankful with your
1:55:15
openness and authenticity. It just was very breathtaking
1:55:18
and just truly grateful for you, my friend.
1:55:20
Hey, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
1:55:22
I really appreciate, you know, you hearing me out and I'm I'm
1:55:25
left to be a part of this. And yeah, thank.
1:55:28
You so much absolutely guys and guys.
1:55:29
Thank you for being here, man what a fun.
1:55:31
I'm having fun with this end of the segment.
1:55:33
I gotta find more time to do it. Really it's kind of selfish
1:55:36
because I get to learn I learn about these things.
1:55:38
You guys are in the muck, man I'm I'm I'm on the outside
1:55:41
cheering yawn. You guys are in the dirt getting
1:55:43
it done and so just love learning from people like Steve
1:55:46
and past guests that we've had. So appreciate everything.
1:55:48
Appreciate you guys being here. If this is your first time or
1:55:51
your 100 time, why don't you share to go find your favorite
1:55:54
episode? Maybe it's this one right here
1:55:55
and share it with a fellow coach.
1:55:58
There's still a lot of people that as many times as I yell
1:56:00
from the mountain top about the podcast, there still people that
1:56:02
don't even know about the podcast.
1:56:04
And that is a disservice to our men and women who are on the
1:56:06
show. So share it with your network,
1:56:08
with your friends out there and join us next week.
1:56:10
We'll do it all over. Thanks guys.
1:56:14
If it goes to appreciate the coach the ones that pour people
1:56:17
most every season needs a voice of reason speaking the growth
1:56:20
you got to prep before you carry the load ice coffee to the soul.
1:56:24
For those of us who stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
1:56:27
zone which you packing for the road.
1:56:29
There's more than one way to the go taking dose that's paying
1:56:32
you're told it ain't practicing your purpose Saint Clair it
1:56:34
can't happen until you listen with both is you can't mentor
1:56:38
without a mentor here of experience.
1:56:40
You can reinvent those years every plan's got to stand and
1:56:43
deliver to and the price sacrifice can you give up you.
1:56:46
It's a choice and the fight not to win all those.
1:56:49
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
1:56:51
It's not about how to it's all about why you don't know till
1:56:54
you know who you are inside 6,000,000 waste of time choose
1:56:58
none. So y'all cross finish line, the
1:57:00
work ain't done so we learn from the experts but y'all got to put
1:57:03
in the leg work, kill athletics, use the network.
1:57:06
It's all about connections put together for the profession to
1:57:09
where every track coach could be blessing.