Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #43: How Healing Childhood Trauma from a Narcissistic Parent Can Deepen Your Connection With Your Child

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#43: How Healing Childhood Trauma from a Narcissistic Parent Can Deepen Your Connection With Your Child · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to say parenting is easy.
0:02
SPEAKER_03: It's not.
0:03
SPEAKER_03: It's far from easy.
0:04
SPEAKER_03: I'm surprised how much easier it gets when you just focus on the connection with your kid.
0:11
SPEAKER_03: The connection, making them feel appreciated, getting their trust, securing their trust, and that everything stems from that.
0:20
SPEAKER_03: If they trust the parent and feel comfortable talking to the parent and know the parent has my back, that everything else stems from there.
0:29
SPEAKER_03: They are more likely to take guidance from you, they're more likely to listen to you, they're more likely to be motivated to help you because of the connection.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: If you're a parent of an adult child, worried and frustrated because they are struggling to become independent, responsible, and find purpose in their life, or you want to know what to do to prevent it, you're in the right place.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: This is launch.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Maria Rieger.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: She's an author, speaker, and a certified inner child reparenting coach who is passionate about helping parents work through their childhood trauma so they can raise emotionally resilient and independent kids.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: After growing up with loss and having a difficult childhood with a narcissistic mother, Maria learned that reparenting isn't just about healing your past, it's about breaking harmful cycles, setting healthy boundaries, and building an unshakable connection with our kids.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Today, we're diving into what reparenting really means, how to start the healing process, and why doing this work can completely change the way you show up for your children.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode of launch.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Maria.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: Wait, let's do that again.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love when it's not live.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, ready?
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Maria, thank you for joining me today on launch.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: Hi, Sherry.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm thrilled to be here.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: You have such an interesting coaching title.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: It's so powerful.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: I've said it in the intro, but I want to repeat it.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: You are a certified inner child reparenting coach.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: I think we need to explain that to our listener.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: Sure thing.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: So uh inner child work is is one part of it, but the reparenting part is a little more in-depth.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: So reparenting can mean a lot of different things.
3:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh, some people use it in terms of adults learning the skills they should have learned as children, because ideally, our parents guide us and teach us how to do things before we launch, right?
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh, the way I use reparenting in general, it's a series of protocols that we use to help adults meet those developmental needs in adulthood that did not get that they did not get met as children, right?
3:39
SPEAKER_03: So children, as most of us parents know, various stages of development have developmental needs.
3:46
SPEAKER_03: Babies need attunement, nurturing, uh, somebody that comes and comforts them and holds them when they cry, that kind of thing.
3:53
SPEAKER_03: And then as kids get older, they have more needs.
3:56
SPEAKER_03: They have a need for safe autonomy exploration, they have a need for uh curiosity encouragement, they have a need for um attunement, for emotional validation, knowing that somebody is gonna be there to protect them.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: And that as they get older into middle school than high school, they need identity validation.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: They may be kind of trying on, so to speak, different identities and exploring things.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: They need to be able to do that.
4:24
SPEAKER_03: They need to be able to um, you know, say no respectfully and maintain their own boundaries.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: So kids have all these developmental needs, they need to get met.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: And though if they don't get those developmental needs met, what happens is they show up later as problematic behavior in adults.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: So that's what these reparenting protocols seek to address.
4:47
SPEAKER_03: And it's empowering, in my opinion, uh, because basically I'm guiding adults through a series of protocols that they can do themselves to get those developmental needs met as adults.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: So it's possible because of neuroplasticity, we can rewire the brain.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: So it's very powerful and it's more than just the inner child work, although that's a good place to start.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: I would love for you to begin by telling us your story, what you experienced growing up, and and how that inspired you to dedicate yourself to this line of work.
5:22
SPEAKER_03: Sure thing.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: So uh unfortunately, I uh had a narcissistic parent, uh single parent, because my father died when I was young in a motor vehicle accident.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, and narcissistic abuse is the kind of thing that it's difficult to articulate.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh, people who've experienced it know exactly what I'm talking about.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: But um, it's more emotional and psychological abuse and control.
5:48
SPEAKER_03: And when you're a kid, you're not sure what's happening.
5:52
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of gaslighting, a lot of emotional manipulation.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, and my mother was either enmeshed and controlling and intrusive or completely dismissive.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: So you never knew who was going to show up.
6:07
SPEAKER_03: And she could not handle any emotion from the kids other than neutral agreeableness.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: If you came to her with a problem or you were upset, she didn't want to deal with it.
6:19
SPEAKER_03: If you were really happy and exuberant, she cut you down and she gave you a reason not to be happy.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: It was very confusing.
6:26
SPEAKER_03: You never knew where the goalposts were, you never knew what behavior was expected of you as a kid.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: And all kids want to please their parents, even teenagers, although it doesn't seem like that, it's a whole nother story.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: But all kids want to at some point, you know, have a relationship with their parents.
6:41
SPEAKER_03: Uh, late astrologer Michael Luton said to me, we're all doomed to love our parents.
6:47
SPEAKER_03: And we're always seeking approval from parents.
6:50
SPEAKER_03: So when you don't know what's expected of you, it's very confusing.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately for me, that showed up later in my relationships.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: That confusion and mental fog and cognitive dissidence felt normal or comforting to me because it was what I experienced in childhood.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it was a lot of confusion.
7:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, one of the unfortunate legacies of narcissistic abuse and the gaslighting is uh you doubt yourself, you doubt your abilities, you doubt your intuition, you're you would doubt, you doubt your own sense of autonomy, your ability to make decisions.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: And that can lead you to abdicate that independence and autonomy to other people who probably don't have your best interests at heart.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's the worst thing about it, I think, is that um that it makes you just doubt your own autonomy.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's something you have to deal with as an adult.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: And the other uh really negative part of that is uh you don't have a support network, you don't have an extended family to count on if you need something or having trouble, because the narcissist in their insecurity takes pleasure in your misfortune.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, so that's in a nutshell, that's uh that's how it was.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: And then that inspired you to start to work with parents who went through the same thing.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: So when I became a parent, I realized very quickly how much work I had to do.
8:19
SPEAKER_03: I realized uh that I did not have a good parenting model and I didn't really know much about childhood development.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: So I studied that extensively, and it was very comforting because I learned that certain behavior, even though it's triggering for me, it's developmentally normal.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: So I realized the issue was with me, not with my kid, that I had to work on my own reparenting.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so that's what inspired me to start this um uh be of service in this way to parents, is uh a lot of parents were coming from similar backgrounds as me and were having similar issues.
8:55
SPEAKER_03: And um, I and I don't want kids to experience what I experienced.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: Every kid should have at least one person they can go to.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: Like, this is a safe person.
9:04
SPEAKER_03: This is a person who has my back.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: And when you're a kid, hopefully that's one of your parents.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about the importance of uh of healing your inner child and and how that is done through your reparenting?
9:17
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: So if you don't heal those patterns, um, you're just gonna continue them.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: Like my mother had a terrible childhood, but she continued on a lot of those negative patterns, those abusive patterns.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: So you're just gonna continue them.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: It's almost like you, you're gonna run the same program, right?
9:36
SPEAKER_03: In in your mind, you're gonna run the same program until you have the insight to realize that, okay, this my behavior is harmful, and I'm just carrying on old patterns that I don't want to perpetuate.
9:49
SPEAKER_03: So um that that's very powerful when you start to have that insight and you can be more of an observer of your own behavior.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: And then you can, once you observe it and you have the insight, you can make changes.
10:01
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, and part of reparenting is figuring, is translating those developmental needs of the child to your adult situation.
10:10
SPEAKER_03: So you may be in a relationship with a partner and you may have needs that are stemming from developmental needs that were not met.
10:18
SPEAKER_03: So, how do you translate that into adult relationship?
10:19
SPEAKER_03: As a toddler, you have a tantrum and that's developmentally normal.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: But as a grown adult, if you're having a tantrum and throwing things not appropriate and not healthy, it's it's abuse.
10:30
SPEAKER_03: So you have to translate those needs.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: What's the issue here?
10:33
SPEAKER_03: Is it you're not feeling seen?
10:35
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so how do you translate that as an adult and communicate that to your partner?
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Hey, when you do X or when this happens, I feel ignored.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: That's hurtful to me, for example.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of reparenting work is it can be some triage at the beginning if people are having kind of relationship issues or issues with their kids, or some triage work, like, okay, let's triage this, and then we can go back and do the really deep protocols to address that more at a root level.
11:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's yeah, that's certainly part of it.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like the when do people ever ask you, what do you mean by inner child?
11:09
SPEAKER_00: Does that confuse people because they're thinking, I'm where is my inner child?
11:14
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: So I I don't get too many questions on what is my inner child, because people that come to me usually have some insight and they're at least aware of that.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: But it's but I'm glad you asked that question because part of the reparenting protocols center around this issue of dual awareness.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: You connect with the child, and that may be you connect with the child uh at the age when the trauma occurred or the developmental need was not met.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: For example, in adolescence, you may have had um some wounds around achievement orientation.
11:45
SPEAKER_03: Your parents may have um uh pressured you to get good grades or achieve, and they may have communicated to you through words or behavior that your worth was based on achievement, right?
11:57
SPEAKER_03: And that their love was based on or linked with your achievement.
12:00
SPEAKER_03: So we may want to connect with that middle school age child that when that happened.
12:07
SPEAKER_03: And then you may, but you're also at the same time maintaining the awareness that you're an adult and you're safe, but we're connecting with that child from the past.
12:16
SPEAKER_03: That's what we mean by dual awareness.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: It's it's similar to hypnotherapy because you're connecting with this child and this these past events and these past feelings and wounds, but maintaining the adult awareness that we're we're aware of these feelings and we're gonna process them, but we're safe at the same time.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: How can someone know if they need to reparent themselves?
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Like what are the red flags that their past is showing up in their parenting?
12:48
SPEAKER_00: It happened for you, but let's talk to the listener who needs to understand how do I know I need to go through this process?
12:57
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: It usually shows up in relationship issues.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: So in terms of parenting, it'll be in the parenting relationship.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh and parents usually uh start to have issues when kids start to turn seven, eight, and older, because that's when kids start to develop to develop a sense of autonomy.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: And that can be triggering for parents who have these developmental wounds, right?
13:22
SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of those parents, and I was like this too, have feel like we have to maintain control because our lives may have been in chaos at some point.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: We were kids, or we didn't, we weren't allowed to exercise autonomy.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: So now we're exercising it even more in a more controlling way as adults.
13:37
SPEAKER_03: But the relationship is suffering.
13:39
SPEAKER_03: And um, either the kids are very oppositional or they don't want to connect with the parents, or they don't want to share things with the parents.
13:48
SPEAKER_03: Or yeah, so that's usually what happens is there's some issue in the relationship.
13:53
SPEAKER_03: Or when the kids are younger, this is a case for me, the adults are extremely triggered by the kids' developmentally normal behavior.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: And the adults are finding themselves yelling and just being very emotionally dysregulated, and they don't want to be like that.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: So that's those are those are some common instances when parents realize, yeah, there's something, I have to do some work, something is happening.
14:16
SPEAKER_03: And I had a, I had a, I'll never forget this.
14:19
SPEAKER_03: I had this moment, uh, I guess my son was like four or five.
14:25
SPEAKER_03: And uh he was having a developmentally appropriate uh tantrum at the time.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: And I remember yelling at him, and he yelled back at me with tears in his eyes.
14:35
SPEAKER_03: And I remember that moment, and I remember thinking, oh, I am not doing this right.
14:41
SPEAKER_03: Like he is mirroring my behavior and he's upset because I am yelling.
14:46
SPEAKER_03: And why am I yelling at a four-year-old?
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Like, why?
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Like, he's not an adult.
14:50
SPEAKER_03: I can't expect him to be adult.
14:51
SPEAKER_03: This is all going through my mind.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: And I said, something I have to work on this.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: I have to.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: And I noticed over the year, I worked hard on just regulating.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: If he had a tantrum, I was I was calm.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: I was regulated.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: If I had to take a break, I would just go into another room.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: And it worked.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: After about it, it was almost a year.
15:10
SPEAKER_03: His behavior started, you know, he was able to be more regulated.
15:14
SPEAKER_03: That's what co-regulation is.
15:15
SPEAKER_03: And this is a very important point about parenting is that kids are internalizing everything from us.
15:20
SPEAKER_03: When kids are younger, they can't necessarily regulate on their own.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: They they borrow the regulation from the parents.
15:27
SPEAKER_03: That's what co-regulation is.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: They see the parent emotionally regulated, they internalize that experience, and eventually they can regulate.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: Same thing with everything.
15:36
SPEAKER_03: The language the parents use with the kids, they internalize that too.
15:40
SPEAKER_03: I was called clumsy, you know, um scatterbrained.
15:44
SPEAKER_03: So I'm a Gemini, so I I am, it's it's not untrue, but it's hard to hear for your parents.
15:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was scatterbrained, I was clumsy.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: I internalize that and I believe that about myself.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: So if you call your teenager lazy, they're gonna internalize that and leave believe that about themselves, right?
15:59
SPEAKER_03: So, same with teens.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: A lot of them have executive function deficits, and that's developmentally normal.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: They have to borrow those skills from the parents.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: The parents have to guide them.
16:10
SPEAKER_03: Here's what we do, here's what you can do.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: You know, how do we let's organize this?
16:14
SPEAKER_03: Like, here's I can guide you and show you how to do this.
16:17
SPEAKER_03: You have to kind of borrow those skills from the parents and they internalize those until they can do it on their own, right?
16:23
SPEAKER_03: So that's what I had to do is I had to regulate so my kid could co-regulate with me and eventually, you know, when he was older, articulate what he was feeling instead of um, you know, having an explosive reaction.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to read something from an article that you wrote.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: It's called Why Your Childhood Trauma Makes You a Better Parent, which I thought was great.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And I'll link it in the show notes because I'm sure by the time we're done, people are gonna want to read that.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: And here it is.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: I could have quoted the whole thing, by the way, but I just took this.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Many parents tell me that they feel broken or defective because they endured childhood trauma, they feel unworthy as parents because of their traumatic past.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: If that is you, I'm here to tell you that you are not broken or damaged because of your past trauma.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: In fact, your abusive past may be the biggest factor that contributes to your healthy, ironclad relationships with your own children, and it makes you a better parent.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
17:32
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk for a minute about the sort of childhood traumas or experiences that might bring an adult to the place where they realize they they need that reparenting.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about it, but can you be a little bit more specific about what childhood trauma would would somebody say, yes, that happened to me?
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh we you touched on the narcissism, but does it always have to be a narcissistic parent that causes the trauma, or could you just have a another situation in your life?
18:05
SPEAKER_03: It could, yeah, it could totally be another kind of situation.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean, childhood trauma it runs the whole gamut, you know.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: And Gabor Mate in his books talk talks about this.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: Um, you could have somebody who's very abusive, kids grow up in an alcoholic home, the uh they don't get you know enough to eat, uh, maybe they're physically abused.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: And then you have um further along the spectrum, is more regarding like emotional, psychological stuff.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: And you could also have a parent who's emotionally neglectful, like my mother was, or you could have a parent who is emotionally manipulative and just an emotionally immature parent, that they expect the kids to kind of meet their needs when that's not appropriate, like meet their emotional needs when that's not appropriate.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: Or they expect the kids to behave like adults, and that's not appropriate either.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: The kids they don't have the brain of an adult yet.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: They some kids, my son looks like an adult.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: He sounds like an adult, but he's not an adult.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: He's only 15.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: So I have to remember that.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: He looks and sounds like an adult, not an adult-level brain, though, not yet.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: So um, but right, so it's I think it's important to point out, and Brene Bernal says this, right?
19:12
SPEAKER_03: Let's not compare and rank trauma.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: You could you could have experienced trauma without being without it being physical.
19:21
SPEAKER_03: So um that there's a great book called uh Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, which which touches on this.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: And there's another great book called Controlling People by Patricia Evans, which also touches on this.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: And Patricia Evans talks about parents who invalidate the kid's internal experiences.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: The example, when you go out, you know, for ice cream and the kid says, I want vanilla, it's my favorite flavor.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: And the parent says, You don't like that, you like chocolate.
19:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, who, why are you defining the internal experience of somebody else?
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Right.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: So that's I find that a lot, especially where I live.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: It's a hyper competitive environment.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: You don't want to study this, you want to study this.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, let's take a step back.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: And why are you projecting your needs on the kid?
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: So, for example, so that's that happens, I think, very frequently.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: And we don't think of it as abuse, and I'm not necessarily calling it abuse, but it is invalidating the kid's internal experience.
20:19
SPEAKER_03: And like gaslighting, it may start to make the kid question their own preferences and beliefs.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: And we want to be very careful about doing that.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, because narcissism is such a hot topic, I wanted you to give examples when it's not the issue, but now I want to go back to that.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I want you to tell the listener what are some of the traits of a narcissistic parent and what that does to a child.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: I want I want parents to reflect on their childhood for a minute to see where they might have been wounded.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Um because again, we talk about the inner child, and I understand that we need to heal her or him or them.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: We need to heal them.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: So something happened.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And if it is a narcissistic parent, let's talk about some of those traits so that you can recognize it.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: And the whole point of recognizing is only to is uh is just to become aware.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: It's we're not pointing, we're not blaming some of our narcissistic parents, aren't even around anymore.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: So let's just kind of touch on what those traits might be, and then we can move on from that topic.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: So, and you know, like you said, Sherry, a lot is said about narcissism.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: So I want to just clarify we're talking about people who qualify for a diagnosis of NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, or whatever cluster B disorders.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: Now, most people who have or qualify for NPD do not seek treatment.
21:57
SPEAKER_03: So it's it's tough to I so.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to say my mother has an NPD diagnosis because she doesn't, as far as I know, right?
22:04
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just going by what I experience, what my therapist says.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, by the way, Dr.
22:09
SPEAKER_03: Romani um estimates that one out of every six people is a narcissist.
22:14
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just gonna leave that statistic there.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: It's an estimate again, but this is why we talk about these topics because they're so prevalent.
22:21
SPEAKER_03: So um, to qualify for a diagnosis of NPD, you need to, somebody needs to meet the criterion in the diagnostic manual, right?
22:30
SPEAKER_03: The big one is low empathy.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: And I saw that with my mother, for example.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh, can you put yourself in the shoes of your kid, not as an adult, not with the lens of an adult, as a kid from their point of view.
22:44
SPEAKER_03: For example, I had a kind of a lot of upheaval in my childhood.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, my father died, my mother remarried, she divorced quickly, then remarried again.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of upheaval.
22:53
SPEAKER_03: And I don't think my mother could put herself in my position.
22:56
SPEAKER_03: And when I voiced uh some needs, like I'm having a hard time with this, I didn't say it in these terms as I was a kid, but my mother didn't want to deal with it.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: And in fact, she said, You shouldn't be upset.
23:09
SPEAKER_03: You have a good life.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: We travel, we do all these things.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Are you serious?
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Like, what I can be grateful for those things and be upset at the upheaval in my life at the same time.
23:18
SPEAKER_03: That's something I told my son later.
23:20
SPEAKER_03: I said, You can be upset that your parents got divorced and still be grateful for things.
23:24
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be one or the other.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: You could be both of those things.
23:27
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, put yourself in the in the position of the child here.
23:32
SPEAKER_03: I cannot tell you, Sherry, how many times I see, oh, this teenager is so selfish and spoiled.
23:38
SPEAKER_03: Really?
23:38
SPEAKER_03: Because they just went through a divorce and now they have a step parent.
23:42
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you should put yourself in the kids' shoes and think about all these changes.
23:46
unknown: Good.
23:46
SPEAKER_03: Instead of calling the kids spoiled.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:48
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they're going through stuff.
23:50
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's something I feel very strongly about.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: So low empathy is a big one.
23:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, narcissists treat people like I like to say NPCs because I'm a gamer, so non-player characters, right?
24:03
SPEAKER_03: Uh, they treat people almost as toys or non-entities, or in terms of what can you do for me.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: But Trisha Evans also talks about this.
24:12
SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, you play with a toy.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: When you're done playing with the toy, you put it on the shelf and you expect it to sit there quiet until you're ready to play with it again.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: And then when the toy voices a boundary or a need, you get angry or upset.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: So they expect people to have no needs and to serve them.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: It's like narcissists, a lot of the time have kids to have somebody to love them back, and also for social proof, right?
24:37
SPEAKER_03: And it's also uh just to have the fan the family unit, there's some social proof there.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: So those are some big things to think about.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, do you are you putting yourself in the position of the kids?
24:48
SPEAKER_03: Are you having empathy, cognitive empathy, putting yourself in their shoes, emotional empathy, identifying with their feelings?
24:55
SPEAKER_03: Or are you treating them?
24:57
SPEAKER_03: Are you dismissive of their feelings?
24:58
SPEAKER_03: When they come to you with a problem, you know, do you validate that?
25:03
SPEAKER_03: Do you show empathy?
25:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
25:04
SPEAKER_03: I remember one time complaining about bullying at school.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: My mother just shrugged and said, just ignore them, and walked away and didn't even look at me.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: Like there was complete dismissal of the issue.
25:16
SPEAKER_03: I didn't even need her to fix the problem.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: Just empathizing with the child sometimes is enough.
25:22
SPEAKER_03: So again, the child knows somebody gets it.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: Somebody sees me, even sees the issues I'm having.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't necessarily have to fix everything for your kids, but to see them and acknowledge, I'm sorry you're having a tough time.
25:37
SPEAKER_03: Would you like to talk about this further?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
25:40
SPEAKER_03: That's just a lot.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: So I mean, I tell parents showing up is half of it, really.
25:46
unknown: Yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: You know, and but narcissists can't do that.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: They don't want to deal with it.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: They don't.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: So those are those are some of the big issues um I would uh I would, you know, definitely bring up.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: If parents ignore the signs of their abused childhood and don't do the healing work, how does their unresolved trauma play itself out in their relationship with their kids?
26:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm always amazed when uh kids grow up, become adults, limit contact with parents, with uh toxic parents, and then the parents are surprised.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm I mean, I think parents assume sometimes, certainly in past generations, that the obligation was enough to force kids to have contact with them.
26:34
SPEAKER_03: That's not the case anymore for a lot of families in my generation and the younger generations that that we're cutting you know toxic people out because we don't want to spend time managing them.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, that's definitely something that estrangement is more common.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: And I think um estrangement, you have to understand, is is uh kind of a last resort.
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Because again, kids want relationships with parents, even adult kids.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: So when you cut the parent off or severely limit contact, there's usually a good reason for it.
27:08
SPEAKER_03: So that that could definitely, if the parents not working on their own healing, that's a definite risk, is the estrangement.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: Just the not sharing personal things because you can't trust the parent.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I mean that, and sometimes it means limiting contact with grandkids because toxic parents who do not heal become toxic grandparents.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: I've seen it.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: So, and it and more of those parents are limiting contact with the grandparents to protect the kids because they don't want the kids to be negatively conditioned like they were.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: So those are real risks.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would I would definitely do that if I was in that situation.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: If my parents were alive and I didn't think that they were I mean, I I managed, I worked through a lot of stuff.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: But if but I'm it's if they're dealing with my children, if they were dealing with my children, and I didn't think my children had the capacity at as children to deal with that, then I would keep it very minimal.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: I would always be in the room.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I I'll say this one thing.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'm gonna keep it in, but when my son was younger and he got a haircut, I waited maybe till he was three years old till I finally cut his hair.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: And my mother turns and says in front of him, I don't like him with his hair short.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: And I looked at her and I said, You mean you don't like his hair short?
28:30
SPEAKER_00: She goes, Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: I go, That's not what you said.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: You said I don't like him with his hair short.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's what he heard.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let us move on.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Um once a parent starts to heal, what are some of the changes they will see in their relationships with themselves and with their children?
28:59
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:00
SPEAKER_03: Well, ideally, over time, you'll see the kids want to seek out connection more often.
29:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh now that looks different depending on the develop depending on the developmental stage of the child.
29:12
SPEAKER_03: Younger kids ask, will you read with me?
29:14
SPEAKER_03: Will you watch TV with me?
29:16
SPEAKER_03: Older kids may ask to do an activity.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: You know, my son still asks to go to the movies once in a while.
29:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm thrilled.
29:21
SPEAKER_03: Somebody told me recently, you're so lucky your teenager wants to spend time with you.
29:25
SPEAKER_03: I said, Yeah, I am lucky.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: I have worked exponentially hard to have that relationship with him.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: So I am lucky, but I've also worked really hard.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, you can expect over time an improvement in relationships and an improvement in communication and an appreciation for things that really matter.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, grades, yes, they may be important, but at the end of the day, they don't matter as much as learning the skills that you need to thrive in adulthood.
29:55
SPEAKER_03: So some of the executive function, organizational skills, study skills, right, that you learn in school or in conjunction with school.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: So you you really have an appreciation for things that are really important, like relationships, like spending time together.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: My mother never sat down and did an activity with us.
30:11
SPEAKER_03: She was always doing something.
30:13
SPEAKER_03: And I think because she was conditioned to believe that if I'm not productive, I'm not worthy.
30:21
SPEAKER_03: So I have to do something.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: She never just sat down, relaxed, and just watched a show with us.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: But those activities together are very important.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: And you will start to do that as you work on your own healing, you'll start to do that more often.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: Just enjoy the time together, right?
30:36
SPEAKER_03: Even if there's no objective, just enjoy each other's presence.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: How powerful of a message is it to a child that you just enjoy their company, that you are spending time with them for the pleasure of their company, not because there's an objective, not because you're trying to get them to do something, just enjoying their presence, right?
30:58
SPEAKER_03: That's a very powerful message to a kid that they can bring with them into adulthood, and hopefully they will bring with them into healthy adult relationships.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: It's so easy.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: It can be so easy, and yet we complicate things because we don't realize how much pain we went through.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: And instead of clearing the pain, we carry it forward because, you know, in all fairness, a lot of parents don't know to do the work before you become a parent or like you did when you witnessed something and you said this isn't healthy.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: But it's the easiest things, just be with them.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: That's all they want.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: That connection.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: Some people might think that it's better to leave things alone.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: I call them rug stuffers.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Why is acknowledging this type of victimhood or childhood trauma so critical in the healing process or just in life?
31:54
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: It's uh it is important to recognize, and there is a grieving process.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: I think it's it's important.
32:00
SPEAKER_03: My position is it's important to have that grieving process where you're grieving the childhood that you deserve, that you should have gotten.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: That's an important point.
32:09
SPEAKER_03: So it's almost like a death.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: Like you just won't have the relationship with your parents or your parent that you want, and you have to accept that.
32:17
SPEAKER_03: And I recommend that in that process, you you use less of your energy toward trying to cultivate the relationship you want with your parents, with the toxic parent, if they're toxic, with uh, you know, spend less energy trying to get the parent to see your position.
32:33
SPEAKER_03: Because if they're toxic, they probably do see your position and they don't care.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: It's about them, right?
32:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, so spend less of your energy on that and more energy on yourself and your relationships with your kids.
32:44
SPEAKER_03: Put that energy into your into your kids and yourself.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: So um, but yeah, if if you leave it alone, I mean, you're just not going to be fulfilled.
32:54
SPEAKER_03: And if you continue to have a relationship with a toxic parent, you're just perpetuating the same cycles and you're you're burning up your energy.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: And you're also, you may be um providing some unhealthy examples to your kids, depending on what the dynamic is and depending on what they see.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I remember seeing a lot of those dynamics with my mother and my grandmother, my mother being afraid of my grandmother, afraid to tell her things, afraid to say no.
33:20
SPEAKER_03: I remember thinking, why?
33:20
SPEAKER_03: I'd be like, You're an adult.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: Why are you what who cares what she thinks?
33:26
SPEAKER_03: She could let her be mad.
33:27
SPEAKER_03: Like, what's wrong with her being mad?
33:28
SPEAKER_03: Let her be mad, you know.
33:30
SPEAKER_03: So, so those are very powerful examples kids take with them.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: I always tell parents your relationship with your kid and your relationship with your partner are the relationship examples your kids take with them into adulthood.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: So think about that.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh I want to talk about radical acceptance.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Which is another way I think of saying meet your children where they are, or meet your child where they are.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Um I wanna I want to talk about what that looks like for parents during the healing process.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Um can you explain to the listener why radical acceptance is such a game changer?
34:12
SPEAKER_03: Right.
34:13
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think we spend a lot of energy kind of berating ourselves uh parents in this situation, um, thinking about like in your the article you quoted, like how we're broken, we just we don't deserve this type of relationship, we're just not gonna be good parents.
34:29
SPEAKER_03: And accept the flaws and accept the fact that you know you've made mistakes, but it doesn't end there.
34:36
SPEAKER_03: You know, I the one of the biggest realizations for me as a parent was that I don't even need to be perfect.
34:42
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: I can the repair is very important, right?
34:47
SPEAKER_03: I know how to repair, I know how to apologize authentically.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: And those are very powerful examples for kids.
34:52
SPEAKER_03: So um that's part of what I mean when I say radical acceptance.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: And I did not coin that phrase, it's a book, it's a great book.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it is important to accept everything that happened in the past.
35:03
SPEAKER_03: It's not, it doesn't define you, it just happened to you as part of your story.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, but and it's an important message for parents to convey to kids because with all the social media and the technology, kids, especially middle schoolers, teenagers, they're seeing all this stuff online and they're comparing themselves.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: And so this lesson of radical acceptance is especially important now for parents to teach teenagers.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: It is important, I want to point out.
35:31
SPEAKER_03: Um, I actually addressed this in a in a course, uh, on-demand course about to publish.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh, some toxic people weaponize this idea of radical acceptance.
35:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's just how I am.
35:42
SPEAKER_03: You have to accept this.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: You do not have to accept abusive behavior.
35:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: That's I just want to make that caveat because there are people that weaponize therapy speak.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, that's what I mean is you accept your story, you accept what happened to you, you accept that you're gonna make mistakes and you work on the repair.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: Don't, don't waste energy berating yourself for the mistake.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: Make the repair, apologize if warranted, do better in the future.
36:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's like that's a very powerful message for kids right there, that you can model that for them.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Because we're not perfect, and you're you know, you're not gonna be perfect, and you don't want to send the message to your kids that they have to be perfect, because that's it's an impossible standard to live up to.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Recently I had an issue with my son who's 31, and we got into an argument and it was heated, and I said to him later, first of all, I apologized.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I've always apologized to my children when I've you know overstepped or but what I I followed that up with was telling him that I'm still trying to figure out how to be his parent as he's an adult, and that I don't get everything right because unlike what he might think, I don't always know what I'm doing.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: This is new for me.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: I said to have you as an adult is a new experience for me.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: So don't assume that I'm gonna do everything right and always say the right thing.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm learning as I go.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think he looked at me like I have never thought of it that way.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about radical acceptance in terms of accepting yourself as you are, but I touched on meeting, accepting your children as they are.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: Is that the same thing?
37:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's definitely a part of it.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you parent the child you have, not the child you want.
37:36
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of parents, and I I was guilty of this too at the beginning, they kind of project their own beliefs or values or um characteristics onto the kids.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: And yes, your kid has half your chromosomes, but they're not you, and they're gonna be different from you.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: So you gotta parent the child you have.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh, for example, you know, you were interested, maybe you're uh interested in um uh science have a scientific mind.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: Maybe your kid doesn't.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: Maybe your kid has a different type of mind, they're a different type of interests.
38:07
SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: You gotta accept that about them.
38:09
SPEAKER_03: So too many parents, I think, project their preferences onto the kids.
38:13
SPEAKER_03: I had this issue with my kid when he was younger because I'm a rugged individualist and I like my own company and I like solitary things.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: Like I can, I'm happy doing things on my own.
38:24
SPEAKER_03: I like to have my friends, but I like doing things on my own.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: And my kid, when he was younger, we're big gamers, both of us.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: We used to game together.
38:30
SPEAKER_03: That's a that's actually that's a one way we started to bond was when he started to game on the Wii and stuff.
38:35
SPEAKER_03: We would game together, we had a blast.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: So um, but he preferred to game with other people, his friends online and stuff.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: And I remember telling him, why do you need to game with your friends?
38:45
SPEAKER_03: Like you could just game by yourself.
38:46
SPEAKER_03: And I realized, you know, but he is more social than me.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: And he likes to be more um, I guess, active in the community than I do.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and that's and I was projecting my, you know, preference and characteristics onto him.
39:02
SPEAKER_03: And I said, okay, I get this, like this.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: Just because it's this way for me doesn't mean it's this way for him.
39:07
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's yeah, very important that you brought that up.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, accept your kids, you parent the child you have, right?
39:13
SPEAKER_03: Um, and if your kid is very different from you, sometimes it takes a little extra effort to figure out, okay, how do I address this?
39:20
SPEAKER_03: I understand that what I needed as a kid, what I would have needed my parents to say to me, but my kid may be different.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: What did they need here?
39:29
SPEAKER_03: Or how should I say this?
39:31
SPEAKER_03: Some kids are more sensitive, and some kids like my my kid is older now, so he can take, he's a little tougher.
39:38
SPEAKER_03: So I I don't, my tone could be a little tougher too.
39:42
SPEAKER_03: But kids are different, so it's important to parent the child you have for sure.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: I love how you say you guide your children and allow them to experience life.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: I find this so powerful.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: I really do.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: You want to talk about that for a minute?
40:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, yes, I am a lifelong learner.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: I love learning.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: And uh it is important to give his kids as many experiences as possible.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: Traveling, having new experiences is as much of an education as what they're learning in school.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh, not just the material, but the skills.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: So it's important to open up their eyes to see all these possibilities.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: And I think one of the jobs, I think one of the jobs of a parent is to introduce your kid to all these experiences and then let them see what they gravitate to and see what they may like to do, but at least introduce them to the experiences.
40:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, and there are different ways of doing that.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to force them to do something long-term if they don't like it, but at least introduce them to different things.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: And I always took the when my son complained about doing stuff, I would tell him, we're gonna do this one time.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: If you hate it, you do not have to do it again.
41:00
SPEAKER_03: Or we're gonna do three sessions of this.
41:02
SPEAKER_03: At the end of the three sessions, if you don't want to continue, fine, but we're gonna at least get a try it.
41:07
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, all this is very important.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, it's easier to travel.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: And even if you can't, you know, go to other places, you can learn about other places.
41:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, because it's one of the great things about the internet uh and virtual stuff.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's definitely important to have those experiences for sure.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm just I'm bringing it up because a lot of parents today are not encouraged, they don't, they're not guiding.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're not, they're not, they're just letting.
41:37
SPEAKER_03: Right.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: And I'm, you know, listen, you can't, you of course you have to accept the child that you have, but at the same time, our job is to continue to push them forward.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: We want them to experience life.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: We still have to guide them.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: We can't just allow them to just say, I don't want to do anything and stay in my room.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the thing that bothers me the most, is that the it's not okay that you are always guiding them for years and years and years.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: So I I loved when you said that you guide your children and allow them to experience life because too many parents are just saying, ah, to hell with it, they don't want to do anything, they just want to stay in their room.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no.
42:16
SPEAKER_03: I hear that all the time.
42:17
SPEAKER_03: Well, they don't want to do anything with me.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, like you said, that you have to you have to step in sometimes to say family time is important, or doing this.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, or and that's because it's it's tough because the phone is so addicting.
42:34
SPEAKER_03: So, and I hear that a lot.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: A teen's in his room all day or her room all day, the room all day.
42:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, they don't want to do anything with me anyway.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's the parents' job to manage the relationship.
42:43
SPEAKER_03: It's the parents' job to to um, you know, approach the teen and do things for the teen.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: Teens on some level want the parent to fight for them.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: They do.
42:53
SPEAKER_03: They do.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: They do.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: And parents need to realize that, you know, I'm trying, as long as you're trying and doing stuff, or some, you know, you could even uh tell your teen, okay, we're doing something this weekend out of the house.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: You pick the activity.
43:08
SPEAKER_03: If you don't pick it by X time, I'll pick it.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: But here I'm giving you the chance to pick it.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: That autonomy is very important.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: So anytime you can throw things in that speak to their autonomy or allow them to practice the autonomy and independence and decision making is really good.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they need to practice that decision making.
43:24
SPEAKER_03: But absolutely, Sherry, yeah, don't just let your teen be in the room all the time.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: Downtime is important, especially for introverts.
43:31
SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
43:32
SPEAKER_03: Um, however, yeah, parents need to step in sometimes, and that's part about guidance.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: Like, like here's you have to guide, you have to guide.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: It's tough to guide without control.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: There is a way to do it, but you got to keep trying.
43:47
SPEAKER_03: And we don't always get it right, and that's fine.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: You're not always gonna get it right.
43:50
SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna be irritated with each other.
43:52
SPEAKER_03: I tell my son, it is impossible for people to live together and not be irritated with each other at some point.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: You can be irritated with me.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, for sure.
44:02
SPEAKER_03: Very important to keep trying, keep doing family activities, keep insisting on family time.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, for sure.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: So you said uh teen, which is I want to bring that up for a second because I don't want parents to think, oh, well, I don't have a teen anymore.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: I have a 24-year-old.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: And I want to say this your 24-year-old might be 24 biologically, but developmentally, they are a teen.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: They're just like that teen in their room that doesn't want to hang out with you.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: You cannot stop, you know, you cannot allow them to just be 20-something and not want to be with you.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: They're living in your home, they're dependent on you, they're lonely, they've they're they've cut themselves off, they're stuck at that teen stage of life.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: And so, to your point, yes, the autonomy.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: So you say things, okay, here's the thing: uh, we're going out.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: So either we're gonna go to a movie or we're gonna go for a bite to eat, we're gonna go for a walk.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: You choose.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: You decide what you want to do, but we're not staying, you're not staying in this room anymore.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: And I I have my kids are 25 and 31.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: And when we get together, it's always like, what do you want to do?
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Where do you want to go?
45:15
SPEAKER_00: We don't just stay home or I don't just let them be in their apartments and do nothing.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: We're getting together and we're doing something.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: It's an activity.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: And so, and they always feel so much better getting out of their room, getting into the nature, fresh air, hanging out with you.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
45:33
SPEAKER_00: That you make that point, and it starts when they're teens, that connection of yes, I'm still your parent, but I'm I'm becoming your friend.
45:40
unknown: Right.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: We're also becoming friends.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: I'll always be your parent, but let's do stuff together.
45:46
SPEAKER_03: Right.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: That nothing breaks my heart more than when parents just allow their 20-something year olds, early 30s, to just cut themselves off from life and do nothing.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: It's it's gotta be my passion.
46:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I my position too is there's an element, parents, when they do that, there's an element of their feelings are hurt, the parents.
46:08
SPEAKER_03: And I understand that.
46:09
SPEAKER_03: Like they don't want to hang out with me, so I'm just not gonna try.
46:13
SPEAKER_03: Again, you're the parent, whether your kid's a teenager, early 20s, they they still have this need.
46:20
SPEAKER_03: You have to make the initiative.
46:21
SPEAKER_03: You make the initiative, you tell them, well, we're gonna, like you said, we're gonna do this, or you know, you make the effort to uh keep trying to hang out with them, keep trying.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: You may not always be successful, but you keep trying.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I was floored the other day.
46:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, my son said, uh, I'm gonna go take a walk around the block.
46:41
SPEAKER_03: I said, okay.
46:43
SPEAKER_03: How hard, you know how hard it is to get him to take a walk with me, just a simple walk.
46:49
SPEAKER_03: But I have I have my tricks about getting him to do that.
46:52
SPEAKER_03: Um I won't share all of them because I don't want him to know all my tricks.
46:56
SPEAKER_03: But um, but um, but he on his own.
47:00
SPEAKER_03: I thought that was awesome, but that's awesome.
47:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, go ahead, man.
47:03
SPEAKER_03: Go ahead, take a walk.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:05
SPEAKER_03: So so again, that's about internalizing it.
47:08
SPEAKER_03: They will internalize that and do it themselves, but it takes time.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: It's not an overnight thing, it takes time and it takes continued effort from the parent.
47:19
SPEAKER_03: But there it will, there will be payoff.
47:21
SPEAKER_03: You have to stick with it.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: Listen, if you have a friend that you've known and that you know they love you and they love hanging out with you, and every time you reach out to them, they don't want to do anything.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: You start to worry.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: You start to go, you know, listen, this is ridiculous.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: We're going to have a coffee.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: That that same person is in your house.
47:38
SPEAKER_00: You you should worry.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: You should worry.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh, in that same article that I quoted, you write about the importance of advocating for your child.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: What does healthy advocacy look like without being overprotective?
47:54
SPEAKER_03: It's tough to get it right sometimes.
47:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh, it will look different depending on the developmental stage.
48:00
SPEAKER_03: So clearly, elementary schoolers that you know may say, I don't want a hug from such and such relative.
48:08
SPEAKER_03: The relative tries to force them into the hug, I think that's appropriate for the parent to step in and say, hey, no, they said no, respect that physical autonomy, back off.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: Because kids are too young at that age, generally too young to kind of you know enforce those boundaries, especially with adults.
48:24
SPEAKER_03: So, but as kids get older, they should be able to self-advocate more and more.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: Now, if they ask for help from parents, I would give it.
48:32
SPEAKER_03: If a school age child says, Mom, dad, I need help.
48:35
SPEAKER_03: I want you to talk to the teacher about this, I would most likely go in and do it.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, as kids get older, they usually typically want parents to step in less.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh, there may be times you want to step in and you ask your kids, hey, I'm happy to talk to the teacher, talk to the parent, talk to so-and-so, address this if you want.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: If your kid says, older kid says, No, I got this, I would respect that.
49:02
SPEAKER_03: Now, there may be things that are too important that you have to step in, right?
49:06
SPEAKER_03: You'll know what those are.
49:08
SPEAKER_03: Several bullying, maybe mistreatment from a teacher, maybe, I don't know, other things.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: You may tell your kid, I have to step in here, it's too important.
49:17
SPEAKER_03: We can go handle it together, but we we cannot let this go unaddressed.
49:22
SPEAKER_03: And you'll know what those are.
49:24
SPEAKER_03: But for other things, I would recommend that if your kid, older kid, says, no, I'll handle this.
49:29
SPEAKER_03: I don't want you to get involved, I would respect that.
49:32
SPEAKER_03: That's a good opportunity for them to deal with it or not deal with it and maybe see the consequences of not dealing with it.
49:37
SPEAKER_03: Again, depending on the severity, parents may need to get involved.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: But kids as they get older should be exercising more and more autonomy.
49:45
SPEAKER_03: And it's vital that they exercise that autonomy at home with the parents.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: That when they say no and protect their own boundaries, that you respect that, at least, well, why don't you want to do this?
49:59
SPEAKER_03: Right, and have a conversation about it.
50:01
SPEAKER_03: So it's important that you at least let them self-advocate.
50:05
SPEAKER_03: Because I can't tell you how many adults I talked to with extremely poor boundaries, myself included, that that that was rooted in uh um parents who were authoritarian, where the kids were not allowed to express boundaries, or if they did, or if they even said anything resembling a no, they were punished.
50:22
SPEAKER_03: That's where that starts.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: They have to flex those muscles at home with you.
50:26
SPEAKER_03: If they don't practice the decision-making muscles at home, they're not gonna magically be able to do it later when they're outside of the home.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: You want them to do it at home with the parents so they get good at it, so that they're able to protect themselves and advocate for themselves when they are not living with the parents anymore and they don't have ready access and guidance from parents.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: Love the segue to boundaries.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, in my opinion, I find that people struggle with boundaries, not boundaries, even the understanding of what is a boundary.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: You want to go?
51:07
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
51:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, I have a whole like a mini masterclass on rules and boundaries and co-parenting.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, boundary, I see it um mischaracterized all the time.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: I see um people talk about boundaries and they're really talking about like a rule.
51:24
SPEAKER_03: So I think of a rule as kind of a general rule that applies to everybody.
51:29
SPEAKER_03: In my home, we have, for example, um, you know, a rule that everyone turns their phones off at 9 p.m.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: That's a rule.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: It applies to everybody, right?
51:38
SPEAKER_03: Boundary is a specific rule.
51:40
SPEAKER_03: It's a rule specific to the individual that generally affects your interaction with other people, right?
51:46
SPEAKER_03: So that example about the rule, it could easily be related to a boundary.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of where it gets confusing.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: Because if my kid asks me for an exception and I say no, and they keep asking me and asking me, and I say, hey, stop pressuring me, now that's a boundary because now I'm being pressured, right?
52:02
SPEAKER_03: I don't like to be pressured, you know, I don't like to be asked things repeatedly that I've already said no to because that's pressure.
52:08
SPEAKER_03: So that's I think where it gets confusing.
52:10
SPEAKER_03: But I see that all the time.
52:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, you have to protect your boundaries, and then they state a rule.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, turn the Wi-Fi goes off at 10 at night.
52:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay, but it's still that's a general rule, not a boundary.
52:21
SPEAKER_03: The boundary is specific to the person, and nobody gets to decide your boundaries but you.
52:25
SPEAKER_03: And nobody gets to tell you that your boundaries are reasonable or unreasonable, uh, but you, right?
52:31
SPEAKER_03: Specific to you.
52:32
SPEAKER_03: So that's how I think about it, and that's how I explain it to parents.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I see.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: I I think the easiest way is to say a boundary is something that's a personal, non-negotiable.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: You will not talk to me like that, you will not treat me like that.
52:47
SPEAKER_00: The same things that you do in the world, you bring into your home.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't change.
52:51
SPEAKER_03: Right.
52:52
SPEAKER_03: And it's not about control.
52:53
SPEAKER_03: It's not, I forbid you from doing X.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: If I don't want X done to me, if you continue to do X to me, I will do Y.
53:01
SPEAKER_03: Right.
53:01
SPEAKER_03: Leave the room, stop talking to you, stop answering, whatever.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: So that's yeah.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you protect your own boundaries while still being emotionally available for your children?
53:12
SPEAKER_03: Great question.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
53:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it is absolutely vital you protect your boundaries, you would model that for your kids.
53:20
SPEAKER_03: So again, they internalize that and they can um protect their own boundaries.
53:25
SPEAKER_03: I just did a reel on financial boundaries and I'm getting a lot of heat for it.
53:30
SPEAKER_03: Why?
53:31
SPEAKER_03: Because I um I give examples of explaining financial boundaries to kids.
53:36
SPEAKER_03: Instead of saying, I can't afford this, which to me projects lack, say I choose not to spend my money on this, which projects autonomy.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: And people say that's too harsh, it's too harsh.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, no, I'm not saying you never buy things for your kids, but if you want to say no and you you want to you know stop these repeated requests, you have to show these boundaries and then your kids articulate, you know, can learn how to articulate boundaries.
54:00
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that's a different story.
54:01
SPEAKER_03: But financial boundaries is very important because parents are getting tired of repeated requests for money because it's so easy to spend money now.
54:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, how to protect your own boundaries and be emotionally available for your kids.
54:13
SPEAKER_03: There are ways to do this.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: So it is important that you respond to bids for connection from kids.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: So if your kid asks for something, is making a bid for connection, wants your attention.
54:25
SPEAKER_03: And again, what this looks like depends on the developmental stage of the child, right?
54:30
SPEAKER_03: But uh, kids, as soon as they're able to understand this, you can say, hey, I want to talk to you or I want to address that, I want to do that, I need a few minutes to finish what I'm doing.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: That's very different than I'm too busy, don't bother me.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: That second one is a rejection, right?
54:47
SPEAKER_03: You want to preserve, you want to answer, protect the boundary, state the boundary while preserving the connection.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: I want to do that with you, or I would love to watch a movie with you.
54:57
SPEAKER_03: I need to finish what I'm doing.
54:58
SPEAKER_03: I need about 10 minutes.
54:59
SPEAKER_03: And because I work with a lot of parents who are co-parenting in a like post-divorce, it's common for kids to call the parent they're not with that week, just for whatever.
55:09
SPEAKER_03: It could be asking for stuff, it could be just to check on them.
55:12
SPEAKER_03: It's important when kids are younger too, they want to know where the parent is and need to touch base with parents, like secure base and psychology, right?
55:19
SPEAKER_03: So uh I would recommend to answer the call because kids sometimes have anxiety about where the other parent is.
55:26
SPEAKER_03: They want to make sure the other parent is safe.
55:28
SPEAKER_03: I would answer the call, but I would say, or I would text and I would say, hey, I'm not available right now, so I'm whatever.
55:36
SPEAKER_03: But I'm okay.
55:37
SPEAKER_03: I wanted to just get back to you.
55:39
SPEAKER_03: I can talk to you tomorrow.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: I can talk to you in an hour.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: I'm available, not right at this minute is life, but I want to talk to you.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: So that looks very different.
55:49
SPEAKER_03: And that's the message you want to send.
55:51
SPEAKER_03: It's you can you don't have to drop everything right away, right?
55:54
SPEAKER_03: But there are ways to protect your time and energy and um advocate for yourself and preserve that connection.
56:02
SPEAKER_03: That's what you want to do.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: In your practice, uh, reparenting yourself is learning to protect those boundaries because of your childhood.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: Why is this so important, not just for yourself, but for your children?
56:20
SPEAKER_00: We are teaching our children when we do this.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: I know I just asked and answered the question, but I want you to elaborate more on why modeling that you have these boundaries, why is this so important for kids?
56:36
SPEAKER_03: Because if kids are not taught how to have healthy boundaries, they risk being taken advantage of as adults.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: So you're preparing them for a healthy adulthood and healthy relationships.
56:49
SPEAKER_03: You're teaching them that their needs matter too, and that they are allowed to voice their needs, even when they run up against other people's needs.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:59
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, very important.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: Boundaries teach our children that they their their time and their energy is is is of value.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: So when you a parent and you have, you know, you don't express your boundaries properly, all you're doing is telling them yours don't matter either.
57:18
unknown: Right.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: Many parents struggle with guilt when prioritizing their own boundaries and their self-care.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: How do you help them overcome that?
57:28
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's tough.
57:29
SPEAKER_03: Um, it's tough, but uh you gotta model the, you gotta take care of yourself.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: You have to protect your energy.
57:35
SPEAKER_03: So self-care is important clearly, because we're not machines, we need rest.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: As you suggested, Sherry, it's also important to model for your kids.
57:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, my kid sees me working hard.
57:49
SPEAKER_03: He also sees me with my feet up, watching Netflix.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:53
SPEAKER_03: So you don't have to be go, go, go all the time.
57:56
SPEAKER_03: That's the message I got as a kid.
57:57
SPEAKER_03: You have to be productive.
57:58
SPEAKER_03: You cannot rest.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: You constantly have to be productive.
58:01
SPEAKER_03: You know, I remember my mother visiting my house when my kid was a baby, and she looked around like all the toys on the floor and stuff, and she looked at me and said, What are you doing when the baby's sleeping?
58:12
SPEAKER_03: Like, why aren't you picking things up?
58:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm sleeping when he's sleeping.
58:15
unknown: What are you doing?
58:16
unknown: What?
58:17
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's crazy this idea that like I can't rest.
58:20
SPEAKER_03: Are you serious?
58:22
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, it's important that your kids see you taking the time for yourself because that's modeling again, they're gonna internalize that behavior.
58:31
SPEAKER_03: I am worthy of rest, right?
58:33
SPEAKER_03: I am worthy of self-care.
58:36
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's important.
58:38
SPEAKER_03: They're their worth is not tied to productivity all the time.
58:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, so on the other hand, it's important kids do stuff so they can get the self-confidence, right?
58:46
SPEAKER_03: And not procrastinate.
58:48
SPEAKER_03: On the other hand, you don't you want to be careful about tying the achievement to worth, right?
58:54
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, the kid think about that.
58:56
SPEAKER_03: When your kids see you resting, they're gonna internalize that as I am also worthy of that, right?
59:00
SPEAKER_03: My kid is really good about that now.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: Mom, I need an introvert day because we've had a very busy week.
59:05
SPEAKER_03: So, okay, we'll schedule introvert time, like it's cool, right?
59:09
SPEAKER_03: And I love the fact that he tells me, I need downtime, mom.
59:13
SPEAKER_03: I need some alone time right now.
59:14
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's great because hopefully he'll carry that into relationships and he'll be able to articulate, I need some time to myself, or I need some relaxed time.
59:23
SPEAKER_03: Very important.
59:25
SPEAKER_00: So, for parents who are listening and they're beginning to realize that they do need to start this reparenting journey, what advice can you give them as they begin this process?
59:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, and if they're into reading, uh, it's great to read up on uh a bunch of different books I could recommend on that process.
59:47
SPEAKER_03: It's important to think about like what you want to address, like what areas are you having difficulty with right now?
59:54
SPEAKER_03: Because those are obviously you want to address those first.
59:57
SPEAKER_03: And also think about like try to think about your childhood and the messages you received and the messages that you internalized and the patterns that are carrying on, see if you can identify those and get some insight.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_03: And um yeah, so it's great to connect, see if you can connect the current difficulties with the stuff, the negative conditioning from your childhood, and see what because a lot of parents have aha moments like, oh, of course, this happened in my childhood.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_03: So clearly, you know, this is why this is the program I'm running in my mind, right?
1:00:29
SPEAKER_03: This is why I'm acting like this.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: And that's that half it half of the battle right there is identifying that.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: Um You know, I always love to leave on a positive note.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: What's the biggest transformation you've seen?
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: It could be in your life or the lives of the people that you coach um once they've worked through this reparenting.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_03: Um I guess the I don't want to say parenting is easy.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_03: It's not, it's far from easy.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_03: However, um I'm surprised, I'm surprised how um how much easier it gets when you just focus on the connection with your kid.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_03: The connection, making them feel appreciated, getting their trust, securing their trust, and that everything stems from that.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_03: If they trust the parent and feel comfortable talking to the parent and know the parent has my back, that everything else stems from there.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_03: They are more likely to take guidance from you, they're more likely to listen to you, they're more likely to be motivated to help you because of the connection, right?
1:01:41
SPEAKER_03: So that's and part of that is just I have a lot of different ideas on how that could be accomplished.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_03: And part of it is just what we talked about, Sherry, is just spending time together, one-on-one time together.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, that's that's like the biggest thing for me is again, I don't want to say parenting is easy, it's not, but it gets easier if you if you instead of focusing on how can I get my kid to do X, focus on how can I secure my kids' trust, how can I feel connected to them and uh inspire them to feel connected to me.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_03: Everything else will be so much easier.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: Amen, sister.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: Maria, I so appreciate everything that you shared today.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: Really, I think that uh I think that you've opened up some parents' eyes to what reparenting is and how so and how it can help parents to understand that by doing their own work they will be better parents.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: And you're right, parenting isn't easy, but it it really is enjoyable when you have that connection.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: And with that connection and that communication, your children will do so much more with their lives because they have you as their support system.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the greatest gift we can give our children is connection and communication.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for this incredible topic.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: I will leave your contact information and that article in the show notes.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: And if you wanted to send me some of those books that you suggested, I'll put those in the show notes too.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm sure there'll be some parents who want to reach out to you.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: You are a wealth of incredible information.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Sherry, for the opportunity.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_03: This is a great convo.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_03: Much appreciated.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, loved it.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_00: Loved it.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_00: All right, Maria, we'll talk soon.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_03: Great, thank you.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, thanks.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_00: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_00: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox, probably when you need it the most.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_00: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential questions.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_00: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_00: Talk to you soon.