Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Transforming HR from Enforcement to Partnership: Steve Browne's Leadership at LaRosa's Pizzeria

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Transforming HR from Enforcement to Partnership: Steve Browne's Leadership at LaRosa's Pizzeria · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotas Bodi
0:17
and today's guest is Steve Brown.
0:19
He serves as the Chief People Officer at La Rosa's Pizzeria, a
0:24
family owned restaurant chain founded in 1954 and loved for
0:29
its signature pizza. Also, they're inviting
0:31
atmosphere and commitment to local communities.
0:34
As a recognized HR Thought Leader, Steve brings more than
0:38
30 years of experience in hospitality, manufacturing,
0:42
consumer products, and professional services.
0:45
He is also the author of three influential HR books, HR on
0:50
Purpose, HR Rising, and HR Unleashed, and he regularly
0:56
speaks at national conferences, sharing insights on nurturing
1:00
positive workplace cultures. Under his leadership, Larosa's
1:04
has continued to grow and earn praise for its People First
1:08
approach, which has helped foster a devoted workforce and
1:12
loyal customers. Now before we get into all that
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AD back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
2:00
today, the Chief People Officer at Larosa's, Steve Brown.
2:04
Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:06
Hi, Anthony. How are you today?
2:09
Good to see you, Steve. So let's jump right in.
2:12
What first drew you into the field of HR?
2:15
What? What was the attraction there
2:16
for you? I was failing out of college.
2:20
I had started as an engineer and a chemical engineer.
2:24
And I I was really good at math and science in high school and I
2:28
was failing. But when I went home, my mom
2:32
pulled me aside. She's a wonderful person and
2:34
said, you know, why aren't you in a field with people?
2:36
I said, what do you mean? And she says everything you do
2:40
is with people. Don't you see it now?
2:43
I, oh, no, I don't. And so I switched my major, went
2:49
to communications and started as a recruiter 40 years ago next
2:56
year, which is staggering. But I, I, I'm not one of those
3:02
people who fell into HRI, chose it.
3:05
And I wanted to be in a field where I really could impact
3:09
people and be around them and, and it's been a quite a journey
3:13
since. So you went to school for
3:15
communications. Did you know at that point that
3:17
HR was going to be your path? Or was it kind of like a job
3:20
fair? And it was like, oh, here's some
3:22
options and I choose that one. I'm older than that, Anthony.
3:27
I sent letters, actually written, typed letters on my
3:31
typewriter to over 200 companies around the United States.
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There was a book in the library said $1,000,000 companies in
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this giant textbook looking thing.
3:43
And I picked up brands. So I picked up all the brands
3:46
you can think of and brands I knew, including Levi, Ringling
3:52
Brothers because I thought that would be fun, and Procter and
3:55
Gamble. And I got one interview at
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Procter and Gamble and got hired.
4:02
Wow, That worked out. Yeah.
4:05
And you were able to stay close to home because you're
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originally from Northwest Ohio, Ada, OH.
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And so Procter and Gamble, based in Cincinnati, you're staying
4:14
pretty close to home. Pretty close.
4:15
Yeah. And so you started out as a
4:17
recruiter for Procter and Gamble, and how did things
4:21
unfold from there? What was your next big step
4:23
forward in the career? I found out that I didn't fit
4:27
the culture. And what's interesting when you
4:29
talked about in my intro about having a people first culture,
4:32
when I started in HR a, it wasn't called HR and even it was
4:38
personnel, you know, industrial relations, Labor Relations, but
4:43
we were the personnel office and I didn't know what culture met.
4:47
We didn't talk about it. We talked about doing a job, you
4:51
know, filling roles and I found out I didn't fit a corporate
4:54
structure like Proctor. It's a great company, great
4:58
company, but I didn't fit. So I left and went into work for
5:02
an entrepreneur. I went from Fortune 10 to
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startup. Big culture shock for you then.
5:10
Giant Shark and I went from office environment to a
5:15
manufacturing plant. It was really a great step
5:20
because I was swimming with sharks.
5:23
I had to start an entire HR function by myself for a company
5:28
of a little over 200 people without the Internet, without, I
5:32
mean, all the stuff that we just take for granted now.
5:35
You know, when people get all excited now about AI, I'm like
5:39
Manila folders. Let's talk about that.
5:43
But it was wonderful. And learning from an
5:45
entrepreneur, you got your hands dirty quickly.
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So you're creating the HR department, the HR function in
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this company of 200 employees. When you were at Procter and
5:57
Gamble, you started out as a recruiter.
5:59
Did you move through other roles there?
6:02
Because it seems like a big junk to to jump to go from recruiter
6:05
to starting an HR department on your own.
6:08
Yeah, well, it at the time, Proctor had a career path of
6:13
support and line. So you could start a support
6:16
role like recruiting, but then you move to a line function.
6:19
So you could still do HR, but you had to move, You had to go
6:22
out of the Cincinnati. And my choice was Mahupany
6:26
Pennsylvania for a paper company.
6:28
I went why? And I was young and ignorant.
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I'll just be honest, I was young and I was like, why would I
6:36
leave an office job to work in manufacturing?
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Incredibly arrogant and and not well thought out.
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Turns out after I left Proctor, I worked in manufacturing most
6:48
of the rest of my career. It was really sad.
6:54
You know, I thought I was more in tune with people, but I
6:58
didn't understand the value of people at all levels and at all
7:02
industries. It was a a misnomer or I'm
7:06
sorry, a mistake of, you know, I have a college degree, OK.
7:13
All right, Mr. Fancy Pants. Wow, way to go, you know.
7:17
So, so how did you start this department from scratch with the
7:21
little experience that you had? Who did you go to for advice?
7:24
Like you said, the Internet wasn't a thing.
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It's not like you could Google ideas.
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Old manuals BLR. The Bureau of Labor Reports, it
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was a textbook like an encyclopedia from HR, and it was
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just volume after volume of after volume of regulations and
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things like that. Most of it though was very
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grassroots and very hands on. A story I've told way too many
7:54
times before. My boss, the founder of the
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company I went to work for, said, hey, you have 30 days to
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learn every name of every person in the company.
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On the 31st day, we'll sit down. If you miss one name, I'll fire
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you. And I said, meet, you know.
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So I did dig my hands into the Mendola folders and started
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reading all the files. And then I went out to the pit
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manufacturing plants. We had two nearby in Cincinnati.
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One was in South Carolina. In South Carolina, I got on the
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phone and was on the phone with the plant manager for hours
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trying to learn his people. The 31st day we sat down and he
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said, so who's Ken Medida? And I said, Ken Medida is the
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CFO and he sits upstairs and he's got a really weird New
8:45
Jersey accent. He doesn't quite fit like us,
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but he's a really good guy and you really trust him.
8:50
OK, well, who's Ron Schlemmer? Well, Ron Schlemmer is your
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plant manager. You hired him from College in
8:56
just all of these stories. And so he gave me these easy
9:00
ones going again. And he goes, OK, who's Carl
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Newton? I said, oh, Carl, Carl's the 2nd
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shift brake shift operator. And Carl's kind of creepy
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because he finds mice in the plant, puts in the machine and
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snatches them. What?
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I go, Yep. But for an hour we went over and
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over and over and over and over. And he, I didn't miss one.
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And he said, hey, do you know why you're here?
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And I said no, he says, my people, if you're not hear from
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my people, I don't need you. Don't you ever forgive that?
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And that foundation allowed me to take HR in a whole different
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direction. That was fortunate that he had
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such a different look as to what HR could be so I could make it
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people first going in. And this was years and years and
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years before people even thought it was a popular thing to do.
9:49
That's fabulous. And which company was that?
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Trans 10 Technologies is no longer here.
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OK. Wild ride.
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I stayed with it. Ron who I mentioned, Ron and I
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and Marvin and a few others. We were the last 10 people with
10:08
the company. But when he got to a point where
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he couldn't pay us, I had to move on.
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Times change, time for a new challenge.
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How did the door at La Rosa's first open for you?
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This is one of my favorite stories.
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I was not looking for a job. I had a great job at CDs
10:31
Associates was an engineering firm.
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I was a department of one kind of the cap by the tail and I
10:37
could do what I wanted and I was very involved in the business.
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But a friend of mine who I've known just through networking, I
10:44
had never met in person but had met through a forum I run,
10:50
called the Internet and she heard about some other things,
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but we never had met in person. She says, hey, I just want to
10:57
let you know this local company is looking for an HR person.
11:00
And I said, who? And he says she says La Rosa's.
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I said, oh, that's not La Rosa's doesn't have somebody.
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Donna works there. And she says, how do you know
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that? And I said, you got to know who
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who works for us and said, well, she's not here anymore.
11:13
Oh, OK. Well, she says, I really think
11:16
you should check it out. So I, the Kevin Burrell, the
11:20
CEO, sent me a note, an e-mail and said, hey, I heard you had
11:24
some people you could help me with.
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So I sent him some resumes and some friends and some people who
11:28
are looking. I said, hey, by the way, I'm
11:32
interested too. And he says, I was hoping you'd
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say that. Now here's why it's a great
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story. Sandy, the person who
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recommended me, was interviewing for the job and she said I don't
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think I fit, but I think I know who does.
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And I had no idea that she did this.
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And it turns out that she was the one who recommended me and
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she was the number one pick by the CEO at the time.
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And she didn't want to be in the role.
12:02
And the only reason was she was a person who was a good office
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person. She didn't want to be in our
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pizzeria. She didn't want to be out in the
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field. And she was very upfront about
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that. And I admire that.
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If you know who you are, you should stick to that.
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So one of the first questions I got being interviewed in a
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restaurant booth at one of our stores was so how do you feel
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about being the pizzerias? And my question was, do I have
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to have a desk? So.
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Like this fits. I think we're good.
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My favorite part of the whole thing though, is I went to
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Sandy's retirement a few years ago and I brought her pizza.
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Say thank you, very meaningful. You know, it's wonderful to see
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what people or others focus. So Sandy went on to work
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somewhere else. Yeah, she went to work for an
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accounting firm. OK.
13:06
And it fit her perfectly. Yeah, and if she hadn't have
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taken herself out of the running for that role, which it sounds
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like CEO wanted her and recommended you, you know what?
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Have you been there 19 years now?
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Sounds like you're having a good time. 19 years this month, yeah.
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That door never would have opened.
13:27
That's really cool. Yeah.
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OK, so for people who haven't been to the Rosa's, what is it
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like? What's the customer experience?
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We're, we're a destination. We have great food.
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I mean, incredible food. Food that is tried and tested
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for 71 years, It's recipes, it's family recipes, legit family
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recipes from the La Rosa's family.
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Mr. La Rosa's Aunt Deanie, it's her sauce.
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You know, they started in a church basement at some
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fundraiser and they made the sauce and everything there.
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And a lot of those things, they've stayed with us.
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But when you come to La Rosa's, it's an experience whether you
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get your food and take it home. But more often than not, people
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try us out at least a couple times in the dining room and we
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get all kinds of family experiences, anything from
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soccer teams, softball teams, funerals, Proms, class reunions.
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Our main store across the street from where I have my office,
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there's a high school called Cincinnati Elder, well known
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Catholic High School, and I've been over there to see the class
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of 52 meet for lunch. You know, we have card clubs.
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They come every week and ladies, primarily ladies sit there for
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four to five hours to eat and play cards.
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You don't find that in a restaurant.
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You know, we also can take care of you and feed you and have you
15:05
out the door and at your house and taking care of your family
15:07
within moments. So it's a really big gamut.
15:12
It's a very wonderful culture. Is the family still involved in
15:15
the business? Yes, Mike Larosa is the CEO and
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his father, Mr. Larosa Buddy Larosa is his name, just turned
15:26
95 and he's around. He, in fact, he stopped by and
15:30
said hi today. And then Mike's son Nick is in
15:36
the business and he's the Senior Vice President of Strategy.
15:40
But yeah, we're we will probably always be a family company.
15:44
How many locations today? There's 65 locations, 10 of them
15:50
are corporate and the rest are franchise.
15:52
OK. And where are the franchises
15:55
today? What states can we find them in?
15:57
Or is that too long to list? Oh no, no, we're very regional.
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We're primarily S southwestern Ohio down into Kentucky, far as
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far South as Dry Ridge, KY, as far West as Batesville, IN and
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as Far East as Jackson, Ohio and as far north as Centerville, OH.
16:17
So we're right in the corner of the state.
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We like being a regional pizzeria.
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It's a good size for us. You know, we want to grow and
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we're working on growing and have a strategy around that, but
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we want to do something where it's more that destination
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approach. You think that's really what
16:34
sets you guys apart from other pizza places?
16:38
I'll give you a great example. We know people see us at least
16:42
once a month, if not more. We have an incredible loyalty
16:47
program with our people. But our primary restaurant,
16:51
which again is across the street, the next one's a mile
16:53
and a half down the road, and the one next to that is 3 miles
16:58
down the road. You guys are like Starbucks.
17:00
Yeah. And so we're just all this
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little cluster and but people will be very loyal to their
17:04
store. So you'll ask somebody.
17:07
So what's your stores to even? Oh, I go to Lakota, Oh, Lakota.
17:11
And people just know that there's an affiliation to who we
17:14
are, which I think speaks speaks well for our brand.
17:18
And so in terms of food, I'm looking at your website here.
17:21
It's not just pizza, there's a lot of other stuff here.
17:25
What what are some of the highlights for you?
17:27
Oh well. Primarily a pizza place, but we
17:29
have 40 menu items. You're going to make me sound
17:31
like our marketing department. Pastas, hoagies, appetizers,
17:37
wings, desserts you can get. It's an Italian restaurant.
17:42
Salads. Salads.
17:43
Our salads are really good. Favorite of a JoJo salad.
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It's a BLT salad. Bacon, lettuce, tomato with
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cream and garlic dressing. My my children never ate salad
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till I worked at La Rosa's. Now when they come home, first
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thing they get is a JoJo salad. OK, so that good, huh?
18:05
I've got 9 and 11 year old boys and yeah, they won't.
18:08
They won't touch a salad. Maybe I need to make a trip down
18:10
to Cincinnati. Just come see me.
18:12
You don't eat bacon. They do eat bacon.
18:15
Yes, that. That'll be the lure.
18:20
OK, So the wings look good here too.
18:25
OK, So tell us about the growth plan here.
18:28
So 10 corporate locations, 55 franchise.
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Are you looking for more franchisees or do you have the
18:35
sort of the partners that you want to grow with now?
18:38
Do you think it's a bit of both? One of the things is atypical of
18:44
Larosa's then versus other changes.
18:45
We have generational franchisees just as we have a generational
18:50
corporate structure. So many of our franchisees are
18:55
third generation. So this is all they've known as
19:00
families and they've been with us decades.
19:03
They're growing as younger people take over.
19:07
They have a different mindset to some of their fathers who had
19:11
owned it before and they're looking to be restaurant tours.
19:16
Not that the others weren't. I think the other guys were
19:18
restaurant tours who were operators.
19:21
Now we have people who are more business people who own
19:24
restaurants. So we have a handful of people
19:27
though that have come in later and they are pure restaurant
19:30
tours. We've looked at all kinds of
19:33
different things of you got to know who we are and be part of
19:37
us, not to change us. But I mean, La Rosa's has that
19:42
feel and you'll know, I think it's easy to find people who
19:47
want to invest, but it's not easy for people that want to be
19:50
able to Rose's franchise. So what do you look for in those
19:54
people? What's the personality traits?
19:58
People first, including the guest, and we want people to
20:01
have an incredible experience every time they work with us or
20:04
every time they interact with us.
20:06
And that has to be consistent across our chain.
20:09
I don't think that makes us a lot different than restaurants,
20:12
but. You can have people go to almost
20:15
any of our locations and have a great experience every time and
20:19
you don't know that they're affiliated outside.
20:21
You see the brand, but you don't know whether it's a corporate
20:24
store or a franchise store. So if we can have that
20:27
consistency with our food, with our hospitality, then you're in.
20:33
So it's it's not a big ask, but it's a more well-rounded ask.
20:37
You know, we want to be efficient and profitable and all
20:40
those good restaurant things, but to have that La Rosa's
20:44
culture of hospitality first and people first is essential.
20:50
You know, I think back to that that test one of your early
20:53
employers gave you, right, learn all 200 employees in the 1st 31
20:57
days or I'm going to fire you. That's extreme, but it really
21:02
like put your head it like it framed for you, like oh, like I
21:07
really get it right. Like I understand that this is
21:10
truly people first, whether that extreme or not.
21:14
Have you employed something similar when interviewing for
21:18
any positions that you filled since then?
21:21
Yeah, absolutely. It was interesting.
21:23
When I interviewed here, I I had a six step interview.
21:27
I interviewed with the entire executive team.
21:29
I didn't know that I was just interviewing with people and
21:33
what I was looking for was, you know, DIA sounds good, but is it
21:37
real? You know, because in an
21:39
interview you can make the dance and go, ah, Anthony, I can get
21:42
you excited about working here. You're like woo, you're like,
21:45
does it match what you're doing? But what was interesting is I'm
21:50
a big lava lamp person. I'm a Big Magic 8 ball person.
21:54
I've always been a toys person. And when I walked around the
21:57
office, I saw people with lava lamps.
21:59
I saw people with magic 8 balls. I'm like, huh, So here's some
22:04
threads. So to answer your question, we
22:07
ask questions about you and what you bring to the table.
22:10
We don't want you to be like us. We want you to add value to us.
22:15
But we grow from within. But when I started, gosh, I was
22:20
like the 5th or 6th external person that had been hired.
22:24
External meeting outside the family and inside the leadership
22:27
structure. Oh no.
22:29
Outside the company. Period.
22:31
The CEO who came in originally when I first was here started as
22:35
a dishwasher. You know, Mike and Mark Larosa,
22:39
even though they're families, started in the field at the
22:42
front line. Nick Larosa started at a
22:45
pizzeria. So I was one of those rare ones
22:49
who brought a skill into the company and didn't grow up in
22:53
the pizzeria. So it was a bigger leap for me
22:56
to make the transition versus others who you know, we knew
23:00
Anthony forever. I've known you since you were
23:02
16. There's a lot of familiarity in
23:05
that, so we haven't had to hire much.
23:12
It's really very fortunate in the offense.
23:15
It's about 1%. Wow.
23:18
That's impressive. And we have incredible tenure.
23:22
We just celebrated. Let's see, last week I had a
23:26
20A25-A30A-40 and A5. Wow.
23:32
That says a lot right there. So you've been there 19 years,
23:36
right? Kind of, you know, move through
23:39
the ranks a little bit, Executive director, HRVP of HR
23:43
now Chief People Officer. What's the, I don't know from
23:47
your perspective, the biggest challenge there inside that time
23:52
frame you've been there that you guys had to overcome?
23:56
When I came here HR was called the black hole and I'm like oh.
24:02
So right out of the gate you had a big challenge.
24:04
And it's like, why were we called the black hole?
24:06
They go, well, because everything goes there to die.
24:09
It would. OK, that didn't come up in the
24:12
interview. What was really interesting is
24:18
Kevin, my boss, did something I've never seen before or never
24:22
experienced. He said, I don't want you to
24:26
give me any ideas for three months.
24:29
And I go what he says, I want you to listen.
24:33
That's it. Just listen, take notes.
24:35
I want you to get out in the pizzerias.
24:38
I want you to you're an outside person.
24:40
You don't know us. So learn us and get to know.
24:43
And I'm a very, very extroverted person.
24:46
I, you know, if I get a chance to talk, it's happening and I
24:49
have ideas all the time. In fact, Mike Barosa keeps using
24:53
a term he said in one of our one-on-one check insurance.
24:56
He says, Steve, you have a lot of ideas, and I like some of
25:00
them. And I'm like, yeah, OK, I'm in.
25:03
But to be in a position where you had to be observant and
25:08
quiet and keep to yourself, I was concerned that people were
25:14
going to think that I was distant, that I was aloof, that
25:19
I was not any different than what they had seen, you know,
25:24
that I wasn't engaging. And there was a lot of damage
25:27
and a lot of separation between functions in our company.
25:31
OPS, marketing, HR, the field, It was all disjointed.
25:38
So I spent that first three months learning people going out
25:44
and meeting the 16 year old cook, you know, going out and
25:47
being the 30 year general manager and getting to the
25:52
bakery and putting on a hairnet and getting covered in flour.
25:56
The challenge was trying to get people to understand that human
26:00
resources can be people oriented and should be people oriented,
26:05
but you can't tell people that you have to be there with them.
26:08
So, you know, to walk through the kitchen and not freak out or
26:12
think that you know, oh, you're from the office.
26:15
All of these barriers that we didn't mean to build, I had a
26:19
chance to observe. And then and again, similar to
26:25
my other boss, 91st day, he's like, so tell me what you saw.
26:30
And so I drew a picture and I drew an Excel spreadsheet, a
26:35
bunch of lines going up and down with all the lines going to HR,
26:40
but I'm not HR, not going anywhere.
26:42
And I said, here's what's interesting.
26:44
Everybody comes to HR. We don't go out to anybody.
26:48
I don't like that. Secondly, they only come to HR
26:52
when something's wrong. Bad position he is.
26:56
Well, what would you change? I took the HR line and put it
26:59
over it and I said we should be in every department because the
27:04
rule is if there are people, there's HR.
27:08
So let me try it. And he did.
27:11
What does that mean to have HR in every department?
27:15
Every HR, every department has people.
27:17
It's funny. HR doesn't do HR.
27:19
People leaders do, so department heads do and supervisors do.
27:23
That's where HR happens. Interactions and relationships
27:27
between people. It's not the stuff I do, you
27:30
know, we help get the compliance and all that kind of stuff in
27:33
line, make sure we don't break rules.
27:36
But all of the behavioral side of what HR really is happened
27:40
with people in departments or in the field.
27:43
So I wanted to see our team get out and be among others and meet
27:49
from there. So what did that look like in
27:53
terms of like a practical implementation of this idea?
27:57
I2 to three days a week. I wasn't here in the office and
28:02
I went everywhere. I put thousands of miles on my
28:06
car because I wanted to go and talk to you.
28:10
If you had an issue in your store, I came to you.
28:14
I can do you when you worked, not when I worked.
28:19
If we had a people situation and it was a 6:00 night on my
28:23
Saturday, that's where you go. And just to show that you're
28:28
approachable and that you're accessible, turn the tide.
28:33
Now you walk into pizzerias and people go, oh, hey Steve, how's
28:37
it going? Not oh, it's HR or oh, it's
28:40
corporate. It's hey Steve.
28:41
And just like I would be, hey Jake, how are you?
28:44
It's the same thing. It's that human connection.
28:47
It's not a role connection. So the problem before, when it
28:51
was a black hole, was that HR was just seen as like some sort
28:54
of an enforcement arm. And they're not really there to
28:58
connect with you or to help you or support you or get to know
29:00
you. They're just there to enforce
29:02
the rules. Right.
29:05
The person before me brought structure, you know, they they
29:08
took it from nothing to structure, but I was structure
29:11
1st and structure at all costs and you get me more permeable
29:16
and bendable that doesn't, you know, good HR isn't strict.
29:21
Yeah. You've called HR or you, you
29:24
like to look at HR as more of a true business partner, am I
29:27
right? Yeah.
29:28
What does that mean in practice at, you know, bustling
29:32
restaurant chain like the Roses? It's funny, if you listen to
29:37
people talk, within 4 to 5 words of their sentence, they'll bring
29:41
up someone's name. And yet we talked about, well,
29:45
we're not getting something done in purchasing.
29:48
You go, well, you know, we didn't get our cheese purchase
29:51
and Steve G were behind the deadline and Steve, I mean, it's
29:57
people every time. So you're going to go, hey, how
30:01
do we equip that person in that role so that they can perform?
30:05
If they can perform, we thrive. A lot of HR people go, I want to
30:11
measure and constrict and confine instead of saying I want
30:16
Anthony to be the best employee he can be, how do I equip them?
30:21
It's just a different proactive look at what we do.
30:24
We still do all the reactive stuff, so I still get all the
30:27
dirt and the nasty things and the oh, you shouldn't have done
30:30
that or or you shouldn't have said that.
30:32
That's business. But that shouldn't be the focus.
30:35
It should be the exception. But it takes a lot of work to
30:39
turn that around where it truly is just an exception.
30:44
So you had this big problem to fix when you first came in.
30:48
What's another more recent initiative that you've brought
30:51
into HR there and I don't know, maybe the last four or five
30:56
years or even the last year that you're pretty excited about?
30:59
Yeah, I went really rogue and said, hey, we're eliminating
31:04
departments and people went huh, What do you mean?
31:09
I, I don't think linearly, if that's the right word, you know,
31:13
linear fashion, I think works more of a continuum and it kind
31:19
of ebbs and flows. And so when you put people in
31:22
boxes, people will stay there. And if, when you put people in
31:25
layers, people will stay there. Organizations need to be able to
31:29
move and shift and flow and be agile.
31:32
So I found an old organizational chart that my boss had me draw
31:39
because he knew I just had to get out of my head.
31:41
And he goes, I don't think you like the way we're structured.
31:44
And I said, OK, I said, no, it is what it is.
31:47
He says, well, if you drew it, what would it be?
31:50
He's he was, he allowed me to be creative, which was very
31:53
helpful. And I have an org chart that is
31:56
all bubbles, no lines whatsoever.
31:59
And it shows how work happens. And when people says, well,
32:03
who's my boss? And he's like, well, the person
32:05
who is responsible for you is. And those semantics make a huge
32:10
difference. If I'm responsible for you, I
32:13
can lead you. If I'm responsible for you, I
32:15
can shepherd you. If I'm responsible for you, I
32:18
can correct you. But if I'm your boss, it's me
32:22
down. Be quiet.
32:24
Do what I say instead of I need to work with you.
32:27
And so it's all about approach. So about June or so, we threw
32:34
this out there and we talked about areas of work, which is
32:37
another word for departments. It's just semantics, but when we
32:41
talk about areas of work, we want to be a non hierarchy
32:44
organization. It's a people first place.
32:47
You know, Do people have roles? Yeah.
32:50
Do people still have titles? Yeah.
32:52
But we don't want people over people.
32:54
We want people working with people.
32:57
People who are in larger roles have more responsibility.
33:00
So was this more of a shift in vocabulary to affect people's
33:07
mindset than it was like an actual change in, I don't know,
33:15
business practices? A little of both, but yeah, it
33:19
was more just let's come at it from this angle with these
33:23
words. But I'll give you a great
33:25
example. Kevin, who I've mentioned a few
33:28
times, unfortunately passed away in 2020, had a heart attack and
33:33
he, he and I were closer. I've never had a boss this
33:36
close. I was with him daily for 15
33:39
years and it was a loss, huge loss for me and for the company.
33:45
What I didn't know is I thought his relationship with me was
33:49
what he had with everybody, and it was not.
33:52
But he and I were so close and he felt so comfortable that I
33:57
just assumed that's what he did with anybody else that worked
34:00
with him. Far from it.
34:03
So we did a company reset. The family brought me in.
34:08
So it was the three little roses that are here and me.
34:12
And they said we want to change things.
34:13
We want to go in a different direction.
34:15
How can you help us? And we're going to do this
34:17
together. And it's not my model or about
34:20
Steve Brown. It's how can we move forward as
34:22
a company after this significant loss.
34:25
Kevin had been with us for 47 years.
34:28
So I said, well, let's try this. I'd like to do facilitative
34:34
leadership at the executive meeting.
34:37
Neil, what do you mean? I said, I'd like to have an
34:38
executive meeting with no agendas, just get together and
34:43
talk about the business. I'll be the facilitator.
34:47
Michael, I need you to participate, not lead, because
34:49
when you lead as the CEO, everybody is quiet because
34:53
you're the, you're the top word, I said, but you have all the
34:56
input and value in history and you have direction and vision.
35:01
We need that from you, Mark. We need this from you as the
35:04
president, Nick. We need this from you.
35:07
And we went around the room. Come and participate.
35:11
I'll just be the person who pulls it together.
35:13
I participate too, but I have a flip chart.
35:17
If I turn my camera, you'd see my 3 flip charts in here, old
35:20
fashioned, Mark. There's the whole thing.
35:23
And we set up things like we had a regular cadence in every two
35:28
weeks, which we still do. We've been doing it for five
35:30
straight years, neither one agenda ever.
35:35
We're being more strategic than we've ever been because now
35:38
we're sitting down and looking at the bigger issues of the
35:40
company from a strategic vantage point up front in moving it
35:45
towards implementation execution.
35:47
But we're putting the implementation and execution
35:50
with the people that do that. Well, so you don't have a formal
35:56
agenda, but somehow you just show up and you're like, hey,
35:59
what do we talk about today, guys?
36:01
I I keep track in the back, you know.
36:05
I've got an idea of where you want to steer the conversation
36:08
that day. We don't, we don't go in with
36:11
brainstorming. And what's interesting is I
36:14
think we're becoming more mature as a business, not because of
36:20
age, but because of approach. You know, if you ever been in
36:23
Anthony, ever been in a session where it's like, hey, let's come
36:25
up with ideas. We do brainstorming and dots and
36:28
post dents and then we prioritize.
36:30
We go through all this stuff and six months later, hey, let's
36:34
brainstorm. It's mind numbing.
36:38
So my thing is, why aren't we more intentional in a measured
36:42
way on an ongoing basis? So we come in with templates
36:47
like, hey, we're thinking about doing this in food, and there's
36:51
a template that food people bring it together.
36:54
It's not, hey, let's come up with a new pizza.
36:56
There's a lot of work that goes into all of these great things,
36:59
and then we pull people in as they're needed based on their
37:03
talent and their strength. It's exciting.
37:06
It's a great time to be here. Let's shift gears and talk about
37:11
your three books, HR on Purpose, HR Rising, and most recently HR
37:17
Unleashed. And if I've got it correct, all
37:20
of them end in 2 exclamation points.
37:22
Yes, I'm that person it way, way back when social media first
37:28
started. I mean I know you don't know me.
37:32
I'm just an excitable guy all the time.
37:35
It's not like a shtick that's like I'm like this constantly.
37:38
So I put 2 exclamation points after things and people are like
37:41
this is not correct in the granic.
37:43
I'm like, I know, here's some more because too many people
37:49
approach things from a very mundane, subtle, It's not to be
37:54
over the top and in your face, but I want you to get geeked
37:57
about what you do. So when I asked Charm to help
38:01
with the book, I said unless you put 2 exclamation points on the
38:05
cover, I'm not doing it *** But we want you to write a book.
38:09
I said I know and I really appreciate that, but I won't ask
38:13
for much. But it will be like this.
38:16
So you were approached to write these books.
38:20
I I. Asked and I, I started it, but I
38:23
talked to I've been involved with Sherm Josh 25 years.
38:27
Explain what Sherm is. Oh, I'm sorry.
38:29
The Society for Human Resource Management.
38:31
So I've been a part of the National Association as a member
38:35
and I worked my way from volunteer leader to being on the
38:38
SHERM board at the national level.
38:41
It's just something I believe in.
38:42
It helps our industry incredibly.
38:46
And they had a publishing alert, so I said hey, and since I was
38:49
so active and kind of known, they said, well, let's see what
38:52
you got. And I put it together and they
38:54
went, nice start. And then I had to write a lot
39:00
more. But it's been a great
39:03
experience. I love having it out there.
39:06
And So what was the message in that first book?
39:08
Why did you need to write that? And I was tired of people
39:12
trashing our profession. HR is the one profession that
39:17
people go, oh, you're in HR Sorry, sorry, you OK?
39:22
You know, if you go, hey, I'm in sales, I don't go, oh, sales,
39:26
Yikes. You know, but HR just gets bash
39:30
and we do it to ourselves. So I really felt this calling to
39:34
say someone needs to show that I believe or they believe in this
39:38
industry and in people. So HR on purpose is do it on
39:43
purpose. Don't just a lot of people in
39:46
companies are afterthoughts. They're the silo on the side
39:50
that you used when you're needed instead of being an integrated
39:53
function. So I wanted to show how you
39:56
could do HR on purpose more through stories and tells and
39:59
advice. And the first book blew up the
40:04
and exploded. To explain that in more detail,
40:07
what does that mean? Matt, my publisher said the
40:11
average author, when they write a book sells 500 copies in LA.
40:17
And that's good right Now I think HR on purpose has sold
40:22
over 15,000. And that was not my intent, you
40:27
know, like, oh, hey, you know. But it hit a nerve, and I have.
40:32
I've been, I get stories of people who've read the book all
40:35
over the world, literally all over the world.
40:38
And many people who said I was going to quit the profession
40:41
until I read your book and I want to stay in.
40:44
Wow. OK, well, that's pretty cool.
40:49
So give us one big take away from that book that somebody
40:52
would get like, let's tease our audience.
40:54
Let's give them a reason to take a peek at it.
40:58
I think it's, it's that's hard to quantify.
41:02
It's I'm a storyteller. I, I, you know, I, I don't do
41:06
well of here's the model to follow.
41:08
That's just silly because it doesn't fit, you know, here's
41:11
the five steps. I tell a story.
41:15
I think, well, the 30 day story is in there, you know, and how
41:21
how better to start a book to say, hey, if your people don't
41:24
matter, get out of. HR.
41:27
It's pretty simple. See, if I'm wrapping my head
41:28
around this, this is more a collection of stories.
41:31
Stories about how you approach HR that can be uplifting.
41:37
The people who have grown tired of the black hole that maybe HR
41:41
has become for them and give them a new mental framework for
41:44
how it could work. It's a great way to put it.
41:47
It's not prescriptive because I think if you have to look for a
41:54
silver bullet from other people, I, I struggled with that.
41:58
If you learn from something, we do something here at Larosa's
42:01
because we Larosify things. So we'll hear a good idea and
42:06
go, that's a good idea. We're going to Larosify that
42:08
thing and, and so we make it our own and people go, boy, I wish I
42:12
could do what you do at your place.
42:14
You can't. So at your place you have your
42:17
culture, your people, your leadership, your approach.
42:21
Take the concepts that are great business concepts and people's
42:24
concept and la Rosify them. Make them fit what you do.
42:29
I would like to see more people take accountability for who they
42:35
are and what they do instead of being spoon fed of here's a
42:37
formula, Gee that didn't work, Oh well.
42:40
And just constantly failing. We're constantly experimenting,
42:44
innovating and moving forward. It's a different way to look at
42:47
it. 2nd book HR Rising. Why did you write that one?
42:52
It was bore about leadership. It was like hey you can lead
42:56
from wherever you're at. A lot of people don't let people
42:59
lead unless they have AC in their name or AVP in their name.
43:03
And honestly those are just words on a title.
43:06
I know tons of people who have seen your titles that aren't
43:09
leaders at all. And I think some people,
43:12
especially HR, the majority of HR is departments of one.
43:16
Companies are small. They don't have, you know, this
43:19
giant HR staff. So you still have to be able to
43:22
lead. So instead of being passive in
43:25
what you do in your practice, you know, take a leadership role
43:28
and step forward for the organization.
43:31
OK. And then the last one HR
43:33
unleashed. When did this one come out and
43:34
what's it about? It came out in 2023 and it was
43:38
about how to truly be strategic. We've been talking about it as a
43:43
profession for about 20 years, you know, and it's a lot of
43:51
strategy. When I look at strategy, and it
43:53
happened with us too, we say it's strategy and it's basically
43:57
implementation. It's not strategy.
43:59
We start in the middle because we're doers.
44:01
We start in the middle and move it down.
44:03
Hey, look, we got this accomplished.
44:05
Look at all the numbers we get, hey, we can get this revenue
44:07
goal instead of saying we want to be this, how does that look
44:12
and let's move it forward. So it's more about being
44:15
strategic to what you do. Is this also like a collection
44:19
of stories or is this a little bit more prescriptive?
44:22
No. OK.
44:23
Stories. You'll have to see them.
44:27
You'll read them, you know, I, I people learn and remember
44:31
stories. They just do.
44:33
Yeah, yeah, you're right. I don't, you know, And when I
44:36
read something and it's like, here's the the anagram or the
44:40
what, what's the word? I'm looking for the, you know,
44:42
the the three CS of something or, you know, like, I never
44:47
remember that stuff. And I'll be honest, when I get
44:49
to that part, I usually skim over it.
44:51
But if it's a story, if it's an anecdote, it's like, here was
44:55
the real thing in real life, Here's how we got through it.
44:57
Here's the other side of it that sticks in my head.
45:01
Yeah. And I, you know, small doses of
45:04
application inside a story, large doses of application and
45:09
instruction don't. No, and if people want to read
45:14
these books, are they available on Amazon?
45:17
Yeah, they're all on Amazon. So Steve Brown last name ends in
45:21
EBROWNE. Steve Brown and HR on purpose,
45:26
HR rising and HR unleashed. So what is HR Net?
45:32
Oh, that again, old. Our HR chapter was full of
45:40
people that had no resources and felt they had no time to get
45:43
resources. So I started an old fashioned
45:46
bulk e-mail and it had 200 people on it.
45:50
And I said, if you want to ask an HR question, you send it to
45:54
me, I'll put it together and we'll just start this going.
45:59
Well, then when things started picking up and Internet became
46:02
available and stuff, we started an Internet message board.
46:07
It's still an Internet message board where people post
46:09
questions on an old fashioned message board.
46:12
And I it. Still is that still exists in
46:13
that format. Oh, yeah.
46:15
Oh, my gosh. And I read a newsletter, and
46:18
every week I read a newsletter. In the newsletter, I say here's
46:23
what's on the site. Hey, Anthony, take this out.
46:25
Here's on the new things on the site.
46:26
I put a resource in there for you this week I featured HR
46:30
Examiner, which was a huge blog in the social media days and it
46:34
came back to life. It's a giant resource for
46:37
people. It looks at HR tech and forward
46:39
thinking things, especially on the tech side of things, AI, all
46:43
kinds of fun stuff. And or I'll highlight other
46:47
people's books, other authors, so that people know things
46:51
because and, and I didn't, I mean this in the most loving
46:53
way. HR people don't make the time to
46:55
find resources. So I chose to put it in their
46:57
lap. And the other thing I do is I
47:01
write a song every week that makes fun of HR.
47:05
You write a song. Are you a singer?
47:08
I sing, but I'm more of a lyricist.
47:10
I'm like the Weird Al of HRII hear a song.
47:16
I can go, I can make that fit. Like this week.
47:19
I wrote it last night as Kids in America by Kim Wilde.
47:23
It's a great song from the 80s. Do the lyrics and put it out
47:27
there, and I also put something in there encouraging at the
47:31
front just to kind of lift people up.
47:33
So what are the chances you can belt out one of those for us
47:36
right now? No, not very good.
47:39
OK, I had to try. But what what's interesting is
47:44
it started out as 200 people and now it's over 15,000 low boy.
47:47
Wow. OK.
47:49
And so for any folks in the HR field that are listening,
47:52
they're like, I've not heard of this before, I want to check it
47:55
out. How can they do that?
47:57
If they e-mail me, I know that's old fashioned, but I want your
48:01
permission. I don't want to just add you.
48:03
Too many people get subscribed to things that they don't want.
48:07
I want you to want it. And if it's a value of you for
48:09
you, that's great. So if you put my e-mail address
48:12
in the show notes, I. Will can you go ahead and give
48:15
it to folks though for those that are just listening?
48:17
Sure. It's S Brown SBROWNE at
48:22
larosaslarosas.com. Awesome.
48:29
OK, let's shift gears again, Steve.
48:32
I would like to hear about a big, hairy, serious challenge
48:37
you've faced in your life. How you got through that, what
48:41
you learned. I would say the biggest
48:45
challenge I had, both personally and professionally was being
48:50
unemployed. When I left Procter and Gamble,
48:53
I thought I had the world by the tail.
48:55
I would just find the next place and I did not.
48:58
And it was in 88891 of the many, many recessions we've been
49:05
through. And you know, I was too big for
49:10
my britches. I got to the point where my
49:14
girlfriend at the time, my wife now of 36 years, had to buy me
49:19
groceries because I couldn't afford groceries.
49:23
And I joined a few friends of mine that I volunteered, were
49:27
with and worked as a landscaper for people that lived in
49:31
magnificent houses. And it was a humbling experience
49:36
because I just needed to get a better view on valuing life,
49:42
valuing work, valuing others, instead of just, you know,
49:46
thinking it was going to be handed to me once I had been in
49:51
transition. I was in transition for about 13
49:54
months. I never, ever forgot what that
49:59
meant. So how that's translated?
50:03
I have been running a roundtable, an HR roundtable
50:05
here in Cincinnati since 2020, sorry, since 2000.
50:09
For 25 years, I've been running a roundtable.
50:12
And people who are in transition are welcome to come because I
50:16
want to be there to be a resource for those that have
50:18
lost jobs. It's incredibly painful.
50:23
Too many people are identified by what they do and who they are
50:27
in their role. I am not that person, but I
50:31
respect that in people. People make it way to try.
50:39
Way to try when you don't know where your next meal is coming
50:42
from or if you can't make your bills.
50:45
And I work with people like that daily.
50:50
It just gives you a better appreciation of the value of
50:54
people and valuing them for who they are and what they do
50:59
instead of just expecting them to come to work.
51:01
So I've been in transition a couple times and it's the worst.
51:07
What advice do you have for somebody who's listening right
51:10
now that's in transition themselves?
51:13
And they're like, yeah, it is the worst.
51:17
Something I wish somebody would have told me.
51:20
You and I got connected through networking channels of all kinds
51:25
of stuff, and we haven't met, but we get to know each other.
51:30
Too many people don't network just to have people in their
51:33
corner. They network to get a job, and
51:37
that's not good. My dad used to say there are two
51:40
types of people in the world, givers and takers.
51:43
Takers get your in the network. I need to network.
51:47
You know they give you the the 32nd elevator speech and the
51:50
minute they find a job you disappear.
51:55
Networking is a business skill who all and they also can help
51:59
you get a job. I want to know I have people in
52:01
my corner. So the HR Net, which has 15,000
52:05
people, the HR Roundtable, we average 100 people a month and
52:09
it goes up to 500 people a month to come.
52:11
They need to know that you have a place to be a connected
52:14
professional. Don't just do it to get a job,
52:19
do it to be sure that you're investing in other people's
52:22
lives. What does that look like from a
52:25
practical standpoint? Right, Because I get like
52:28
LinkedIn connection requests from people and it's clear that
52:32
they've got something to sell me.
52:33
And I respect that Everybody's, you know, trying to make a
52:35
living. But hey, can, you know, I grab
52:38
30 minutes of your time to talk about your SEO strategy?
52:42
Like, what does it really look like to build those
52:47
relationships to the point where, like you put it, you've
52:49
got people in your corner? I'll give you a good example.
52:52
I was on another podcast from a gentleman and somehow something
52:56
that connected. And afterwards he says, hey, can
52:58
I talk to you about my platform? I said, sure, yeah, that's
53:01
great. So I give him the time because
53:04
the one thing I can give people is my time.
53:06
It's the one thing I have. It's the one thing I own.
53:09
Everything else I don't. You kind of went, but my time is
53:13
mine. So I said sure, I'll talk to
53:15
you. So I called him on my way home
53:17
because of a long commute. And while we're talking, he's
53:20
just jumping into his platform and he's all excited.
53:23
And I said, hey, you sound great.
53:24
Probably won't use it because why?
53:28
I said I appreciate your passion.
53:31
Here's what you don't understand.
53:33
I'd like to get you connected, Gerald, to John Ferguson, Josani
53:38
Courtney and John Baldino. These three people I know can
53:42
help you. He's like, why would you do
53:45
that? It's like, because you're
53:46
looking for people to know in order to move things forward, I
53:50
can be a connector and do that for you.
53:53
Why would you do that? I said, why wouldn't I do that?
53:56
There's a great book by Malcolm Gladwell, The Tipping Point.
54:01
OK. And I didn't know this.
54:03
One of my former pastors read this.
54:04
He was a business guy. He's great.
54:06
He read business books. It's really cool.
54:08
He said. I said, I read this book and saw
54:10
you and I'm a connector and I am a crazy, wild connector for no
54:16
reason. I just can't help myself.
54:18
But I don't expect you to do it with me or for me.
54:22
I expect me to be able to help you in any way I can.
54:26
And I get requests weekly like you do, but I get requests of,
54:33
hey, I heard you at a conference.
54:34
I really want to talk to you because when you get past the
54:40
surface level and dump down just a little bit more, those are
54:43
connections worth having. And it's harder, takes a little
54:46
more time, but it's worth having.
54:48
So for somebody who's listening right now and they're already in
54:50
that position where they're in transition and they're like,
54:54
what do I do now? OK, I get it.
54:55
The best time to have started to build my network and develop
54:59
those relationships was a year, 2 years, five years, 10 years
55:03
ago. But here I am, I didn't do that.
55:05
What do I do now? I would try and find a place
55:09
where people gather. You never can beat in person
55:12
things. So there could be professional
55:13
groups, there could be transition groups, but instead
55:16
of going in, then going, hey, let me just vomit on you all the
55:19
stuff that I'm going because I'm so desperate.
55:22
Get to know me as a person. Ask me what I do, ask me where I
55:26
live, ask me if I can help. Can I help you and Evan be a
55:32
little more reciprocating instead of 1 sided small bits.
55:37
But the second part of it, which is critical, is understand your
55:40
capacity. If you come in like a shotgun
55:43
and go ah, to 20 people, that's you aren't going to know
55:47
anybody. If you're a two person capacity
55:50
person, dive you. If you're a ten person capacity
55:54
person, do that. But make those intentional
55:58
connections and ask people for their time.
56:00
If they don't give you their time, move on.
56:03
You don't need to be connected to denim anyway.
56:07
I like that. If you had to recommend a book
56:12
that's not yours to our listeners, or a podcast perhaps,
56:17
what would you point people towards?
56:18
Something that's been helpful to you?
56:20
The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek.
56:24
Tell us more about it. Oh, best business book ever
56:27
written. My, blew my mind.
56:30
I know Simon Sinek's all thought theater and cool and it's got a
56:34
great accent and all that stuff. And his start with why
56:39
everybody's done it. We've done it.
56:40
We still use it, but the Infinite Game talks about how
56:44
work is infinite, but most of us fight make it finite.
56:48
So when you look at strategic plan, one year done, three-year
56:53
done, instead of saying work is always happening, it never
56:56
stops, it keeps going, people keep changing.
57:00
He gives great examples of companies who have embraced this
57:04
and it will change how people look.
57:07
If I showed you my copy, it's just covered with posted Nets
57:11
because it's that full. The other one, though, that you
57:14
can't miss is called Orbiting the Giant Hairball by Gordon
57:18
McKenzie. Haven't heard of this one.
57:20
Second best book. Oh, it's fantastic.
57:23
Someone gave it to me at the round table, said, hey, saw this
57:26
book, thought of you. That's kind of fun.
57:29
Gordon McKenzie used to work for Hallmark Cards and was fired for
57:33
being too creative at a card company.
57:37
Fantastic. But his whole premise in the
57:39
book is everybody tries to take the hair balls of life and work
57:44
'cause we all have them. You know, I'm a dad, I'm a
57:47
husband, I'm Cpl. I'm involved in my church, I'm
57:51
involved in civic things, you know, you name it.
57:54
I write A blog, all this crazy stuff.
57:57
Every part of your life's a hairball.
57:59
Well, everybody you work with is a hairball too, and work is a
58:02
hairball. His own point is we keep trying
58:04
to straighten it out. We just get everything, you
58:07
know, unraveled and in line. You can't.
58:11
His whole thing is jump out, learn something new, go back and
58:15
back and make the hairball better.
58:17
So doing good work like you're doing, hearing from other
58:21
people, hearing their stories, that's getting out of my daily
58:24
activity, learning something amazing, going back and making
58:29
my my hairball better. It's really a great book.
58:34
That's cool. It's not often that my guests
58:37
get so animated about the books that they're recommending that
58:39
makes me want to go out and get them.
58:41
So thank you for adding to my reading list.
58:45
Sure. So what's your superpower?
58:46
Steve Brown. I don't know.
58:54
I'm very approachable. I'm 100% who I am.
58:57
Every time you meet me, there's nothing you can't ask me.
59:00
And I go, oh, I'll tell you that you know, I've never met a
59:04
person where you have to earn something from me.
59:07
I want to know about you now. I want to know what makes you
59:12
tick. It's very interesting to me.
59:14
And I'll remember it and I'll remember your name.
59:17
That exercise that my boss gave me years ago, I've been doing it
59:22
for years. He didn't know that, you know, I
59:25
know thousands of people by name.
59:27
When I see you, if you come to my round table, I'll know if
59:29
you're new and, and just, and if I don't know you, I'll make sure
59:34
to introduce you the next time I see you.
59:36
Chances are I'll know who you are.
59:38
So I've always thought that names matter.
59:41
You were given a name for a reason.
59:43
So, you know, instead of just being, hey, guy who does podcast
59:48
person, you know, or works for a benefits company, You've already
59:52
talked about things that I know about you and we've never met.
59:56
Yeah, you need to show that people matter.
59:59
And I've always felt that. Steve, sometimes our mistakes
1:00:03
become our greatest teachers. What's an early career moment?
1:00:07
It seemed like a set back at the time that actually propelled you
1:00:10
forward. We had OSHA come into our
1:00:13
manufacturing plant and I didn't know what OSHA was.
1:00:17
And I met the inspector. He's like, hi, I'm from OSHA.
1:00:20
I'm like, neat. He goes, where's your OSHA
1:00:24
poster? I'm like, what's an OSHA poster?
1:00:28
He says, you're not kidding. I said, no, Sir, I'm not.
1:00:30
I'm not trying to be trying. I I, I really don't know.
1:00:34
And I was new. I was, I didn't know nothing to
1:00:36
know. And so I was like, you know, he
1:00:39
goes, we're going to find you. I go, I bet you are because we
1:00:42
don't know what we're doing. And he says, OK, well, he walked
1:00:47
me through, coached me, showed me what we are making errors,
1:00:51
showed me the value of what safety practices meant.
1:00:54
And then when I sat in front of the district person to get
1:00:56
fined, design it 6 figures. And we are not we are not
1:00:59
entrepreneurial company. And I was like, OK, because so
1:01:03
tell me what you steps you taken to do me remediation.
1:01:06
I said yes, Sir. And I had Polaroids, honest to
1:01:08
goodness Polaroids and paper and fix things and say, you know,
1:01:14
the inspector said this, we've done these three things.
1:01:16
Inspector said this, we did these three things.
1:01:19
He dropped it down to $3000. Wow.
1:01:23
So. I think you have to respect the
1:01:27
good work that people do. Instead of getting upset about
1:01:30
regulatory things, learn how to comply and do the right thing
1:01:33
because you're protecting people.
1:01:35
Quit thinking of do's and don'ts thinking.
1:01:38
Think of ways to take care of your people.
1:01:41
A safe environment is what you need.
1:01:44
You know, structuring systems are what you need so people know
1:01:47
how to do their jobs. We keep talking about what's
1:01:50
wrong in companies instead of taking all the good stuff and
1:01:53
making it work with us and for us.
1:01:56
I really like that story and I heard.
1:01:58
From some of my other manufacturing guests that have
1:02:01
had, you know, issues with OSHA or, you know, another agency and
1:02:07
they're like, you know, it, it was painful.
1:02:09
It was embarrassing, but we didn't hide from it.
1:02:12
We stepped up and we owned it and and we asked questions.
1:02:16
Help us do this better. And some of them have reported
1:02:19
similar kinds of things to you where it's like they witnessed
1:02:23
that you truly want to do those good things and you're taking
1:02:27
the right steps and they're more likely to work with you.
1:02:30
It becomes much less adversarial and it becomes more of a a
1:02:33
partnership. And now they see that agency
1:02:36
come on site. It's like, hey, Jim, good to see
1:02:39
you again. Let me show you what we're doing
1:02:40
here. Same, same kind of thing you
1:02:42
guys did, right? You took ownership of it.
1:02:46
Yeah. I like that.
1:02:48
OK, two questions I got left for you.
1:02:51
What's your favorite thing to do outside of work?
1:02:54
Oh, music trivia. Music trivia.
1:02:57
Very specific. OK.
1:02:58
Freak. When it comes to music trivia,
1:03:00
we. Have a local place down around
1:03:01
the corner from my house. My best buddy's daughter owns it
1:03:05
and we'll usually get my wife and my another couple and I and
1:03:09
we'll go. We'll take on the whole bar.
1:03:11
We'll usually come in first or second.
1:03:14
Love it. OK.
1:03:15
All right, before I ask the last question, I'm going to take care
1:03:18
of three things here. First of all, anybody who wants
1:03:20
to get in touch with Steve, we've already said you can find
1:03:22
all of his books on Amazon. Just search for Steve Brown with
1:03:26
an E and I think you're going to find those three different HR
1:03:30
books. You can also find him on
1:03:32
LinkedIn and his e-mail address once again, and we'll have it in
1:03:36
the show notes is S Brown with an ESBROWNE at larosas.com.
1:03:43
And as a reminder, if you want to get more employees access to
1:03:45
benefits that won't hurt them financially and carries a
1:03:48
financial website for the company, reach out to us at Add
1:03:50
back benefits.com. Finally, if you'll take just a
1:03:54
moment to leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast
1:03:57
app, you'll hold a special place in my heart forever.
1:03:59
Thanks so much. OK, so last question for you,
1:04:02
Steve. A year from now, you and I
1:04:03
reconnect and you are super excited because you're
1:04:06
celebrating something big. What's that big thing you hope
1:04:09
to be celebrating one year from today?
1:04:13
Helping our company go through succession.
1:04:16
We are going through the tenure is going to start changing
1:04:20
because we have some people who will be making that next step in
1:04:22
their career either outside of the company or into different
1:04:26
roles. So I over the next year, year
1:04:28
and a half, we're going to be making some big shifts.
1:04:30
It's going to be pretty exciting.
1:04:32
OK, fun stuff, Steve Brown. From Larosa's, I want to be the
1:04:35
first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story
1:04:38
with us today. I really appreciate it.
1:04:40
Thanks Anthony. It's been great.
1:04:42
Love talking to you. Folks, that's a wrap on another
1:04:44
episode of The Inspired. Stories podcast.
1:04:46
Thanks for learning with us today.