Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #226 More Than Consent Education with Melinda Tankard Reist

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#226 More Than Consent Education with Melinda Tankard Reist · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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Speaker 2: Now. The research is solid on this that it grooms
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Speaker 2: boys to consider their sexual entitlement more important than respect,
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Speaker 2: emphasity care of girls.
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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My Mum
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Speaker 1: and Dad today.
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Speaker 3: This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six books
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Speaker 3: about raising happy families. Here with my wife and podcast
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Speaker 3: partner Mum to our six daughters, Kylie, missus Happy Families.
0:35
Speaker 3: We're going a really big day today, Kylie talking to
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Speaker 3: a special guest.
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Speaker 2: Really excited.
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Speaker 4: We've got Melinda Tankard Reese with us today and we're
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Speaker 4: talking about a really important subject.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: So Melinda has been writing about issues around sex, pornography,
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Speaker 3: consent and the really big heavy stuff that we have
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Speaker 3: to deal with with our children around sexualization of girls.
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Speaker 3: I would say Melinda is one of Australia is foremost
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Speaker 3: girl and women champion, somebody who is really agitating and
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Speaker 3: saying the world is not good enough to women and
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Speaker 3: girls at the moment. And Melinda, we're so delighted to
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Speaker 3: have you joined us on the podcast today. Thank you
1:12
Speaker 3: for being with us.
1:14
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure, Melinda.
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Speaker 4: For people who are not following the news at the moment,
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Speaker 4: Can you just outline the situation that where we're finding
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Speaker 4: ourselves in right now?
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Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. A former New South Wales private school girl,
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Speaker 2: Chanel Contos, started a poll on her Instagram asking other
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Speaker 2: young women had they been assaulted? Had they been sexually
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Speaker 2: harassed by their peers, their male peers, primarily in Sydney
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Speaker 2: private schools. That's how it started, and she was just
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Speaker 2: overwhelmed with responses, which currently stand at over five thousand
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Speaker 2: counts of sexual harassment, of inappropriate touching, of for sex
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Speaker 2: acts as a result of guys taking advantage of young
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Speaker 2: women who are the influence of alcohol, sexual coercion, coercive control.
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Speaker 2: And those stories just keep growing and it has sparked
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Speaker 2: a national conversation around our consent and respectful relationships and
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Speaker 2: why things are as bad as they are. And I'm
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Speaker 2: so grateful to Chanel for doing this. The petition has
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Speaker 2: now been expanded nationwide and more stories are coming in
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Speaker 2: every day. When these stories first started emerging as a
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Speaker 2: result of Chanel's petition, there were a lot of expressions
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Speaker 2: of shock and amazement and surprised, and I must admit
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Speaker 2: I was not surprised at all, because those stories echoed
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Speaker 2: what young women have been telling me in over a
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Speaker 2: decade of my encounters with them in schools, and which
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Speaker 2: I've documented previously, including for the ABC. Stories of daily
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Speaker 2: sexual harassment. Have been groped, being touched, being harassed on
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Speaker 2: the school bus on the way home, of demands for
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Speaker 2: naked selfies, precious to engage in sex acts that girls
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Speaker 2: don't want or enjoy, Boys demanding from young women what
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Speaker 2: they had seen in porn, and the stories are getting worse,
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Speaker 2: and they are getting worse younger. I'm dealing with twelve
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Speaker 2: year olds who have been blackmail to sand images to
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Speaker 2: older boys. I am now being asked to speak to
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Speaker 2: grades three, four, fives, and six. And I never imagined
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Speaker 2: that when I first started speaking on these issues that
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Speaker 2: I would be asked now to go into primary sycles
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Speaker 2: to speak about sexualization and porn culture and how young
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Speaker 2: children can protect themselves from what is essentially a giant
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Speaker 2: experiment on the developing sexual templates of our children and adults.
4:05
Speaker 2: We have allowed this to happen, and we need to
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Speaker 2: own it. The fruits of it are clear now and
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Speaker 2: we've all allowed this to happen.
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Speaker 4: As a mum of six girls, Melinda, this just terrifies.
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Speaker 4: It's so terrifying.
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Speaker 2: Fine, I have three daughters.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm wondering, you know, why does this problem
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Speaker 4: even exist? Why are we having to deal with this
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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty one.
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Speaker 2: My argument is that a sexist culture grooms sexist boys,
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Speaker 2: and we have allowed a sexist culture to teach our
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Speaker 2: boys about women and girls and what's acceptable, and that's
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Speaker 2: obviously been halffull. The porn industry is the biggest, the
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Speaker 2: world's largest department of education and each The research is
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Speaker 2: solid on this that it grooms boys to considers their
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Speaker 2: sexual entitlement more important than respect, empathy, care of girls.
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Speaker 2: It trains them to believe that no means yes. It
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Speaker 2: trains them to be aroused by cruelty, brutality, domination, and aggression.
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Speaker 2: The porn industry is corrosive to connection. It emotionally disconnects
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Speaker 2: boys from their kindness, from their humanity, and it's a
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Speaker 2: tragedy for them. It's a tragedy for girls. It's a
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Speaker 2: tragedy for all of us.
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Speaker 3: Really, Melinda, I'm sitting here listening to what you're saying,
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Speaker 3: and I've listened to you talk in conferences before. We've
5:40
Speaker 3: been in the same conferences, sharing this stage on different topics.
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Speaker 3: What you're describing is not new to me. And yet
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Speaker 3: I've got this lump in my throat and my eyes
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Speaker 3: are wet as I consider the just the tragedy that
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Speaker 3: is unfolding in the lives of our children and for them,
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Speaker 3: for so many of them, not all, but for so
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Speaker 3: many of them, this is just normal. This is what
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Speaker 3: it's like to be a grade ten kid that goes
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Speaker 3: to a party and sees someone getting black out, drunk
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Speaker 3: and career. So, what this petition that Misscontos has started
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Speaker 3: is really about is saying we need to do better
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Speaker 3: with consent and sex education in schools so that this
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Speaker 3: stuff stops. But both you and I are on the
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Speaker 3: same page on this. We both argue that consent education
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Speaker 3: is actually setting the bar really low, and in many
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Speaker 3: ways it doesn't work anyway, because that kid who's sitting
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Speaker 3: next to his girlfriend in that sex aid class the
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Speaker 3: next Friday night, he doesn't really care what consent is
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Speaker 3: because he wants to have this fantasy fulfilled. Why do
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Speaker 3: you say that consent is a low bar, and it's
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Speaker 3: not enough.
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Speaker 2: So I'm think stop by saying I do speak on
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Speaker 2: consent and respectful relationships, and I do think they are
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Speaker 2: very important. My concern is that it may be seen
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Speaker 2: as some kind of magic board that will deal with
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Speaker 2: the mess that we are in, and if we do
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Speaker 2: not address the conditioning role of pornography, if we don't
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Speaker 2: address all the other harmful cultural forces that have led
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Speaker 2: us to this point. What I've argued is that the
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Speaker 2: consent education will be limited in its effectiveness. I argued
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Speaker 2: this in a two thousand and two and a half
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Speaker 2: thousand word essay that was just published by the ABC
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Speaker 2: two days ago. If your listeners are interested in us.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to link to that in the show notes.
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Speaker 2: But the fact is that the best program in the
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Speaker 2: world at the moment will not have the effect we
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Speaker 2: need it to if the other elements aren't addressed. And
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Speaker 2: I'll give you as an example. I read through hundreds
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Speaker 2: of those testimonials and what I realized was that quite
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Speaker 2: a number of the young women said that their abuse
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Speaker 2: are their offender. The guy who took advantage of them
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Speaker 2: had sat in the same consent education classes already.
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Speaker 4: The thing that's standing out to me is I'm listening
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Speaker 4: to you, Melenda, is just why is it all of
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Speaker 4: a sudden that we've got this idea that sex education
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Speaker 4: and consent is actually supposed to happen in our schools.
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Speaker 4: Is this not something that we as parents should be,
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Speaker 4: you know, safeguarding our kids against in the home.
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Speaker 2: It takes a village to raise a child, and this
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Speaker 2: type of relig this type of education has to happen
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Speaker 2: at every level. Yes, it has to happen in the home.
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Speaker 2: Of course, parents have to step up to the plate.
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Speaker 2: My concern at the moment is that it's too much
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Speaker 2: for parents on our own because the stories I'm hearing
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Speaker 2: include stories from parents who were doing the right thing.
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Speaker 2: They had every Internet filtering device, they had the devices
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Speaker 2: in public spaces, they took the phones off the kids
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Speaker 2: at night. They were doing all of those things, and
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Speaker 2: of course they should, we all should. However, what do
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Speaker 2: you do about the fact that children are being exposed
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Speaker 2: to hardcore torture rapes that is imporn in the school yard,
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Speaker 2: on the school bus, on the way home, at the
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Speaker 2: school camp, at the friend's house, where they don't have
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Speaker 2: the same monitoring as their family that that child belongs
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Speaker 2: to has in their own home. This is the thing.
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Speaker 2: It's too hard for parents on their own. Yes, of
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Speaker 2: course I speak to parents. I give them tips and
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Speaker 2: advice on what you can do in the home. This
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Speaker 2: issue is so great. We are talking about a public
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Speaker 2: health crisis that is deforming and warping our children, their
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Speaker 2: attitudes to their bodies, sexuality relationships, harming them in significant ways,
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Speaker 2: destructive ways. The giant experiment. We've never seen it done
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Speaker 2: before on our kids. We need our governments and our
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Speaker 2: regulatory bodies to step up and act ethically, not put
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Speaker 2: the vest in interests of the porn lobby and the advertisers,
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Speaker 2: the mega corporates, big tech corporates ahead of the well
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Speaker 2: being of our young people and our children. That's why
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Speaker 2: I say it takes of village. It needs everyone cooperating
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Speaker 2: to the common good of our children and the community.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Melinda, we're going to take a break and come
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Speaker 3: back and ask you about what we can actually do
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Speaker 3: and what the government can do as well. I just
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Speaker 3: want to highlight one thing that you've really flagged there,
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Speaker 3: and that is that consent education is insufficient, because when
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Speaker 3: we've got a sick culture you can wiggle one thread,
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Speaker 3: but the rest of the tapestry is not going to
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Speaker 3: be affected by it because there's just so much of
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Speaker 3: it around. Let's take a really quick break, and when
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Speaker 3: we come back, we'll talk about what we can do
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Speaker 3: as parents to help our kids to not be on
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Speaker 3: these petitions and sharing these testimonials. It's the Happy Families Podcast.
10:50
Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
10:53
Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The Do's and donts
10:56
Speaker 5: of Discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
10:58
Speaker 5: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies
11:03
Speaker 5: dot com, dot au slash shop.
11:05
Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now. And today we've
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Speaker 4: been talking with Melinda Tankard Reeste about this conversation that
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Speaker 4: we're having.
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Speaker 3: That nationally national conversation about consent and helping our kids
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Speaker 3: be safe in a world that's flooded by pornography. You know, Melinda,
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Speaker 3: I would love to get your take on what parents
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Speaker 3: who are listening with fear in their hearts might do
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Speaker 3: as they're listening to this conversation. If they're worried about
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Speaker 3: how to talk to their children. What do you what
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Speaker 3: do you recommend?
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Speaker 2: So I recommend acting personally and acting collectively, acting personally,
11:43
Speaker 2: obviously having filtering. Obviously, we need to look at why
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Speaker 2: we even give our children internet enabled devices. We are
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Speaker 2: handing our children hand grenades, and that hand grenade will
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Speaker 2: blow up in their faces. Some parents will say, I
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Speaker 2: need my child to contact me. Of course, why do
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Speaker 2: they need a smartphone? They can contact you on a
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Speaker 2: dumb phone, right, Because they're being exposed to torture, porn,
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Speaker 2: rape porn, sadism, beast reality, and incest porn on their
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Speaker 2: own devices.
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Speaker 3: Right, So we've got it. We've got our younger kids
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Speaker 3: Space talk watch. There's no Internet, there's no social media.
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Speaker 3: It's just a watch that can text and call only
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Speaker 3: people that we agree with, and it solves so many issues,
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Speaker 3: Like it's a really really good thing.
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Speaker 2: Obviously, modeling proper behavior in the home, it's not always
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Speaker 2: what we say, it's how we act. How does how
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Speaker 2: does how to mum and dad relate to each other?
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Speaker 2: If a son is speaking very badly towards a system,
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Speaker 2: is he watching the violent games? Is he listening to
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Speaker 2: violent music? Is that being tolerated, because if that's being tolerated,
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Speaker 2: then your son will take those attitudes that he's learned
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Speaker 2: and he will act out on them. You know, attitudes
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Speaker 2: shape behaviors. We know this, So look at what's being
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Speaker 2: modeled in the home. What's been tolerated in the home.
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Speaker 2: What are you buying? You know they're kind of clothing.
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Speaker 2: What are you allowing your children to be exposed to?
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Speaker 2: The games Instagram? You know, my organization Collective Sharp has
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Speaker 2: exposed thousands of predators operating in playing sight on the
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Speaker 2: accounts of schoolgirls on Instagram, and we're working with Instagram
13:21
Speaker 2: to try to address that. So know what your kids
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Speaker 2: are doing, you know, don't just use this technology as
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Speaker 2: a default babysitter. But then we have to act collectively.
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Speaker 2: We have to respond as a community. We have to
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Speaker 2: lobby our government, our regulatory bodies. Now, a whole year ago,
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Speaker 2: a federal government committee inquiry reported on and inquiring the
13:46
Speaker 2: need for an age verification system. So that's a proof
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Speaker 2: of age requirement which would at least protect some children
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Speaker 2: from exposure to pornography because right now there's no protection.
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Speaker 2: You know, it's the wild West, and this would just
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Speaker 2: be one blockage that would protect children from accessing these
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Speaker 2: kind of sites. It's been a year without a government
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Speaker 2: response to that inquiry. We need to know what the
14:13
Speaker 2: government is going to do with those recommendations, So ask
14:17
Speaker 2: your MP to find out what is going on. Why
14:20
Speaker 2: has it been a year with no response to that. Yes,
14:23
Speaker 2: there are some good things happening. We have the Safety
14:25
Speaker 2: Commission now and they've got some great resources and are
14:28
Speaker 2: doing good things in this space. But we need something else.
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Speaker 2: It's too much, it's too hard, it's too harmful. It's
14:36
Speaker 2: time to act politically as well.
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Speaker 3: Scott Morrison's been criticized recently saying I talked to my
14:41
Speaker 3: wife and had to imagine what it must be like
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Speaker 3: for my daughters, and that's why I've changed my tune
14:45
Speaker 3: on the Britney Higgins case. He's been bashed around the
14:48
Speaker 3: place for that. I don't have a political bone in
14:51
Speaker 3: my body. I will say whether he had to do
14:53
Speaker 3: that or not. What I'm interested in is the fact
14:55
Speaker 3: that he did and he changed his tune because of it.
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Speaker 3: It's about empathy, and I don't care how we get
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Speaker 3: to empathy. I've got to get people to empathy so
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Speaker 3: that they'll have that respect.
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Speaker 2: Yes, we absolutely do, and that's what we're losing. That's
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Speaker 2: my biggest fear actually, is the loss of empathy in
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Speaker 2: the culture. I had a teacher tell me recently. You
15:11
Speaker 2: might recall where the case where a man took his
15:15
Speaker 2: life live on social media. He live streamed his killing
15:19
Speaker 2: of himself. And this teacher said something to me which
15:22
Speaker 2: put chills up my spine. She said to me, the
15:26
Speaker 2: biggest concern for her was not that all the kids
15:29
Speaker 2: were talking about it and had seen it, and we
15:31
Speaker 2: were talking at that point in year seven's and ads.
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Speaker 2: She said, the fact was the lack of empathy, the
15:37
Speaker 2: lack of effect. That it was just another meme, It
15:40
Speaker 2: was another online spectacle to talk about, and then you
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Speaker 2: moved on to the next spectacle. Again, this is a
15:45
Speaker 2: tragedy for our children. We need to get back to
15:48
Speaker 2: that sense of empathy, understanding the suffering of another person,
15:53
Speaker 2: you know, walking in their shoes, feeling it from their perspective. Otherwise,
15:57
Speaker 2: you know, we are in big trouble.
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Speaker 4: I want to say this has been a great conversation.
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Speaker 4: This has been a really hard conversation.
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Speaker 2: There.
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Speaker 4: We've talked about some really really important issues and I
16:08
Speaker 4: think that it's a conversation that we need to have
16:11
Speaker 4: ongoingly and so sad that we do, but so important.
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Speaker 4: But if people want to find out more about where
16:18
Speaker 4: they can go to get great information on how they
16:22
Speaker 4: can start to have these kinds of conversations with their kids,
16:25
Speaker 4: where would you send them?
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Speaker 2: Well, I'd love to people to check out my website
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Speaker 2: which is Melinda tankardreft dot com and Collective Shout, the
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Speaker 2: movement that I co founded a decade ago to address
16:37
Speaker 2: these issues. Collective Shout for a World Free of Sexploitation.
16:41
Speaker 2: We've just celebrated our tenth anniversary and we equip and
16:45
Speaker 2: empower people to take action on these issues. And I
16:49
Speaker 2: also have a special book offer the two best resources
16:52
Speaker 2: I have found on how to talk to your kids
16:55
Speaker 2: about porn. This is a hard conversation. We would rather
16:59
Speaker 2: not have to have this conversation, but we don't have
17:03
Speaker 2: that luxury. There's a vacuum there, someone will fill it.
17:07
Speaker 2: We have to have these conversations with our children. A
17:10
Speaker 2: lot of parents wonder how do I talk to my
17:13
Speaker 2: kids about this issue? How do I introduce the conversation.
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Speaker 2: That's why I'm offering these two books, how to talk
17:19
Speaker 2: to your kids about porn is for the parent. It's easy,
17:23
Speaker 2: it's accessible, very simple, easy to read, very practical. And
17:27
Speaker 2: then there's a second book, Good Picture's Bad Pictures Porn
17:31
Speaker 2: Proofing Today's young kids. You actually read this book with
17:34
Speaker 2: your child and it helps to protect them from exposure.
17:38
Speaker 2: But if they are exposed, it opens up the conversation,
17:42
Speaker 2: what do you do. Here's some practical tips. Here's how
17:45
Speaker 2: to talk to mum or dad about it. We won't
17:47
Speaker 2: get angry, we won't get mad, because the fact is
17:49
Speaker 2: it is inevitable that your child will see porn if
17:52
Speaker 2: they haven't already. Here's how to stay controlled. He's how
17:57
Speaker 2: to take a breath and have the conversation to help
18:00
Speaker 2: your child in the hope that you know you can
18:02
Speaker 2: protect them not to see it again next time. So
18:04
Speaker 2: those two books go together, and I have a special
18:07
Speaker 2: deal on them at the moment, and I think you
18:09
Speaker 2: know these resources are needed more than ever. We've had
18:11
Speaker 2: the COVID lockdown, and everyone one talks about the COVID pandemic,
18:15
Speaker 2: of course, but here's another pandemic, and our kids have
18:18
Speaker 2: been even at more risk of sexual grooming, of predators,
18:22
Speaker 2: of porn exposure due to the very long periods of
18:26
Speaker 2: lockdown and the terribly stressed parents. So I have this
18:31
Speaker 2: special offer and I'm hoping it would be of help
18:32
Speaker 2: to your listeners.
18:34
Speaker 3: Justin and Kylie, well, Melinda, amazing to have this conversation.
18:37
Speaker 3: Wish we could continue it but our time as well,
18:39
Speaker 3: and truly up Melinda Tankard Reese, author advocate and just
18:44
Speaker 3: such a knowledgeable person about this topic. Somebody said a
18:47
Speaker 3: little while ago that we sort of skim across the
18:49
Speaker 3: big issues. In fact, we don't even talk about the
18:50
Speaker 3: big issues. I think that we've ticked that box today.
18:53
Speaker 3: We really hope that you've enjoyed the podcasts. If you do,
18:56
Speaker 3: we would love to hear from you. You can email
18:58
Speaker 3: us podcasts That's podcast with an s at Happy Families
19:01
Speaker 3: dot com, dot you or Betty Yet, leave a five
19:03
Speaker 3: star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. That way more
19:06
Speaker 3: people can find out about the podcast and help their
19:08
Speaker 3: kids be safer and happier. We appreciate the work of
19:12
Speaker 3: Justin rule On from Bridge Media. He's our producer. Also,
19:14
Speaker 3: Craig Bruce, thank you, our executive producer. If you'd like
19:17
Speaker 3: more information about making your family happier, obviously, please check
19:21
Speaker 3: out Melinda's website. That's Melinda Tankard Reese. If you just
19:24
Speaker 3: Google her, you'll find her website, or visit happyfamilies dot
19:28
Speaker 3: com dot au