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Founder Confessions: Don’t build an app with MJ Perez | Founder Confessions · Founder Confessions

• 0:00
  MJ: we were like, " we're just gonna build this app, and then of course
• 0:02
  everybody's going to download the app,
• 0:04
  at least two people were like, "What is this?"
• 0:08
  Is this like an influencer collective?"
• 0:10
  shout-out to my mom being like, " You're gonna quit your job to run
• 0:13
  a store?" Katrina and I always joke that we are going to IPO, or nothing.
• 0:28
  Welcome to this week's episode of Founder Confessions.
• 0:32
  Today, I'm here with MJ Perez, who is co-founder of Arete Studios.
• 0:38
  Arete Studios is a discovery platform for emerging designers around the world who
• 0:44
  have the talent but not the infrastructure to reach the American market.
• 0:49
  MJ has a background in machine learning, and before this, she
• 0:53
  built ranking systems at Uber.
• 0:57
  Ashley: MJ, thank you so much for being here with us today at Founder Confessions.
• 1:02
  MJ: Thank you for having me.
• 1:03
  Ashley: Amazing.
• 1:03
  So I wanna start with our first question, which is, in plain English,
• 1:08
  who does Arete solve a problem for, and what is that problem?
• 1:15
  MJ: Um, the funny thing is that Aret solves problems for two
• 1:20
  different customers at the same time.
• 1:22
  Ashley: Okay.
• 1:23
  MJ: So from one angle, we have the average consumer.
• 1:27
  You know, they're tired of shopping at Zara, but they don't
• 1:31
  really know where else to shop.
• 1:33
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 1:33
  MJ: Because if you wanna shop something different, you know,
• 1:36
  you have to go on Instagram.
• 1:37
  It's, like, hard to find, like, cool designers, and then once you find them,
• 1:41
  you have to, you know, order from a whole different country, and then there's
• 1:44
  tariffs, and then you can't return, and, you know, it's just a, like, a lot.
• 1:48
  Ashley: It is.
• 1:48
  MJ: Um, so what we do is that we create a platform where the, all
• 1:53
  the emerging designers are together.
• 1:54
  You know, you're able to easily find them.
• 1:57
  We have a lot of them, so you can find, you know, the designers
• 1:59
  that actually fit your style.
• 2:01
  Um, and then we provide, you know, the, like, let's call it
• 2:05
  Amazon level of customer service that people are expecting, you
• 2:10
  know, in this, like, time, right?
• 2:12
  Yeah.
• 2:12
  Like, things have to ship within two days.
• 2:15
  Yeah.
• 2:15
  Like, free returns are mandatory.
• 2:17
  Um, so that's what, you know, we are bringing to, to the customer.
• 2:22
  And then from the brand side, the brands simply don't have the
• 2:28
  infrastructure that they need to grow.
• 2:32
  Ashley: Mm.
• 2:32
  MJ: Um, they don't have the right data points.
• 2:34
  They don't have the right recommendations.
• 2:37
  They don't know how to connect with the audience.
• 2:39
  There's a lot of, you know A- and then even if they did do all those things-
• 2:43
  Ashley: Yeah
• 2:43
  MJ: like, actually, you know, fulfilling orders, like, doing customer service, all
• 2:48
  of this, like, adds up, and for, you know, teams that are, like, small, um, it just,
• 2:52
  you know, really blocks their growth.
• 2:55
  So we give them the right tools for them to, to grow,
• 2:59
  um, grow
• 2:59
  with us.
• 3:01
  Ashley: Oh, I love it, and I abs- So there's two things.
• 3:04
  One, I feel like there's a lot of sameness at a lot of these bigger s-
• 3:09
  brands and stores, and so I love that you're giving people a, a, a way to
• 3:16
  explore and find different fashions and designers with their own point
• 3:20
  of view, and I think that's so cool.
• 3:22
  And two, yes, there's an immediacy that I feel like our culture expects
• 3:26
  now, and so I think it's really awesome that you're helping these
• 3:29
  emerging brands and designers scale.
• 3:33
  Awesome.
• 3:34
  So getting into the juicy part now, the confession.
• 3:39
  What did you assume about building a business that turned out to be wrong?
• 3:45
  And make sure that you give us what the assumption was, what happened,
• 3:49
  and then what do you believe now?
• 3:54
  MJ: Um, we have a few.
• 3:57
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 3:58
  I know, it's
• 3:59
  like,
• 3:59
  it's so hard to pick just one.
• 4:01
  I feel like I'm asking for the impossible, but yeah, give me
• 4:04
  one or two that are resonating.
• 4:06
  MJ: Okay, so there's two, like, top things that come to mind.
• 4:09
  I think the first one is that when we started, um, Arete, we saw
• 4:17
  ourselves as, like, a tech company.
• 4:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:20
  Um, and we were like, "Yeah, we're just gonna build this app, and then of
• 4:24
  course everybody's going to download the app, and then, like, you know,
• 4:26
  they're gonna start shopping from the app, and it's, you know, solved."
• 4:30
  Um, and then I think as, as we, you know, invested a lot of, like, money
• 4:34
  into the app, um, we realized that that's not how people, like, really
• 4:41
  want to discover a brand- Okay uh, in, you know, this, this year.
• 4:47
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 4:50
  MJ: You know,
• 4:50
  app- apps maybe, you know, it's like works really well for companies that
• 4:55
  are pr- more late stage or, or even like, you know, maybe five years ago,
• 5:00
  10 years ago, it was like all the rage.
• 5:02
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 5:02
  MJ: Um, but now, you know, people are a bit over that.
• 5:05
  Um, uh, yet the fashion tech community continues to, like, push on that, which
• 5:10
  Ashley: is really interesting.
• 5:10
  Interesting.
• 5:11
  MJ: Um, but yeah.
• 5:12
  And I think the realization was that we are a brand.
• 5:18
  Like, if you want to work- Mm in fashion and be in
• 5:20
  fashion, like you are a brand.
• 5:22
  And I think we had to go back to the drawing board, figure out
• 5:25
  like what is Theia Red brand?
• 5:28
  What is, you know, this like the persona that, you know, really represents, um, us?
• 5:34
  Like what are our colors?
• 5:35
  What is our typography?
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  Like what i- you know, things that a tech company normally like wouldn't have
• 5:40
  to really like iron out on, on day one.
• 5:44
  Um, so yeah.
• 5:46
  I think that was like, you know, uh, one of the biggest learnings.
• 5:49
  Um, and then I think there was like a more recent one.
• 5:54
  That was like, you know, a few years ago.
• 5:56
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 5:56
  MJ: Um, more recent one is that,
• 5:59
  you know,
• 5:59
  they always say that founders have to invest so much time like thinking about
• 6:05
  like the strategy, uh, and I was expecting that to be a lot of my day-to-day job.
• 6:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:13
  Um, but I think I spend like, you know, very significant amount of
• 6:18
  my time thinking about the actual like operations of the business.
• 6:23
  Ashley: MJ.
• 6:26
  MJ, you are being so juicy right now.
• 6:28
  I feel like there are so many things that I, I have to dig into.
• 6:31
  So okay, let's start with the last.
• 6:34
  MJ: Okay.
• 6:34
  Ashley: Um, this is very interesting because I can ev- so even in
• 6:38
  my own business, you're right.
• 6:41
  I have realized like strategy's cool and all, but sh- if you don't
• 6:44
  have the infrastructure to then bring it to life, to sustain it-
• 6:49
  Mm then it really doesn't matter.
• 6:51
  Tell me more So that's it from my point of view.
• 6:53
  Tell me more about it from your point of view.
• 6:55
  Was there something specifically that happened where you guys were
• 6:58
  like, "Oh, we need to focus a bit more on the operations here"?
• 7:04
  MJ: Yeah.
• 7:04
  Well, we, um, you
• 7:07
  know,
• 7:07
  it's always been like, "Oh, yeah, we have to grow the online business."
• 7:10
  Like, that's always the goal.
• 7:12
  Um, and then, you know, once we started, like, thinking more about that and,
• 7:16
  like, creating content that was, like, focused on, you know, uh, e-commerce
• 7:20
  and, like, adding ads and all that, like, which was, like, more strategic,
• 7:24
  um, you know, we had the problem of like, "Wait, now we have tons of orders,
• 7:28
  and we can't ship them because, like, who's gonna ship them, and what is the
• 7:32
  infrastructure for them to ship it?"
• 7:33
  Like, you know, we were having We were asking brands to ship things from
• 7:37
  Argentina, which doesn't make any sense.
• 7:39
  Mm. And
• 7:39
  then they were getting upset because it, it was too expensive, and the
• 7:43
  customers were upset because it was taking too long, and like, you
• 7:45
  know, and then, and then the duties, and they were, like, being charged.
• 7:48
  And, and just, just like, "Okay," like, "this is not gonna work." Like, this
• 7:52
  whole, like, drop ship model doesn't apply to, you know, the kind of,
• 7:57
  like, business that we're building- Yeah of like a collection of
• 8:00
  emerging designers from around the world.
• 8:03
  So essentially, we had to build an entire fulfillment 3PL business in-house.
• 8:10
  And now, um, we offer that to brands, like in addition to the distribution-
• 8:17
  Mm-hmm fulfillment services as well.
• 8:21
  Um, and yeah, we're, we're very happy about, you know, like from the
• 8:26
  business For, for the brands, you know, it solves their fulfillment
• 8:30
  issues, and then for us it kind of like adds an additional income layer-
• 8:35
  Ashley: Yeah
• 8:35
  MJ: um, as well as, um, increases the retention of the brands with us
• 8:40
  because they know that if they leave us, then, you know, they have to
• 8:43
  figure out how to fulfill otherwise.
• 8:45
  Ashley: No, that makes a ton of sense.
• 8:47
  And then the second thing that you said in your confession, which I
• 8:49
  think is really interesting, and I almost wonder if that aspect for
• 8:55
  tech specifically is going away.
• 8:58
  But you mentioned about specifically being a fashion tech
• 9:02
  company, that it really is
• 9:05
  Like,
• 9:05
  it's interesting.
• 9:05
  Fashion tech is existing within the OG fashion space, right?
• 9:11
  And what I heard from what you said is that fashion is an industry where
• 9:17
  whether you're a designer or a tech company, you have to have this brand.
• 9:24
  And so things that a tech, a traditional tech founder may not
• 9:29
  invest a lot into, which is like the overall branding and, you know, what
• 9:34
  do you want it to look like, stand for, how you want it to feel, right?
• 9:37
  Yeah.
• 9:37
  Um, it, from your experience, does not seem like it's something that a
• 9:44
  typical tech founder has to experience.
• 9:47
  And so I'm curious, how did you come across that insight?
• 9:50
  Because I do agree, and I also think it might be changing as well.
• 9:56
  MJ: Um, I think there was like one particular moment where, you know,
• 10:00
  it kind of clicked in our heads.
• 10:02
  Um, we were just, you know, asking people for feedback on our Instagram.
• 10:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:08
  Um, and like I think at least two people were like, "What is this?"
• 10:14
  Ashley: Ooh.
• 10:15
  MJ: Like, "So what are you selling? Is this like an influencer collective?" Um-
• 10:19
  Ashley: Oh, no.
• 10:20
  An influencer collective.
• 10:22
  MJ: And we were like, "Oh," like, "I think we're doing something really wrong
• 10:25
  here." Because like, you know, we were posting like, you know, pictures that
• 10:30
  were like inconsistent between them.
• 10:33
  Okay.
• 10:33
  Um, and you know, they didn't have
• 10:36
  like
• 10:37
  this particular, as you just said, like the branding, the typography, the,
• 10:41
  you know, like the typical ARET girl.
• 10:44
  Um, and I think that that was, you know, like the moment that we were
• 10:48
  like, "Something is really wrong." Like, if, if someone look, looks at
• 10:52
  our Instagram, that is our main channel of communication with the client-
• 10:56
  Ashley: Yeah
• 10:57
  MJ: and they don't know what we are, then we have to fix something.
• 11:00
  That's when we started, like, digging into, okay, how do
• 11:03
  we think about branding?
• 11:04
  How do we build our brand book?
• 11:07
  Ashley: I love that.
• 11:07
  I absolutely love that.
• 11:09
  Um, but switching actually onto the topic of your customers, what is one
• 11:14
  topic on your dream customers' minds right now, and what is your take on it?
• 11:23
  Understand the question first Yeah, so I guess we're trying to understand,
• 11:26
  like, what do you feel like from your perspective is most pressing to your
• 11:31
  customer, and just like, you know, what, what thoughts do you have about it, right?
• 11:38
  Um, so for an example, I deal with a lot of founders, especially, like,
• 11:43
  founders in the earlier stage, and so, you know, they're always, like- Mm-hmm
• 11:46
  funding and money is something that are, is always on their mind.
• 11:49
  Mm. Typically, they, when they think funding, they think VC, right?
• 11:54
  Um, and so yeah, like my opinion on that is that VC is not
• 11:59
  the only way to do business.
• 12:01
  It's not the only way to make something come to life, right?
• 12:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:03
  Um, and so I try to help a lot of founders really understand
• 12:07
  if that's even a path for them.
• 12:09
  So do, does, uh, d- do you have customers like that?
• 12:13
  W- uh, do you have a point of view like that for your customers?
• 12:20
  MJ: I mean,
• 12:21
  it's, like, very different.
• 12:22
  We- I'll try to say it, and
• 12:24
  Yeah.
• 12:24
  Ashley: No,
• 12:24
  let me know if it's, like, totally off.
• 12:25
  Yeah.
• 12:25
  Take, take your angle on it.
• 12:30
  MJ: Okay.
• 12:30
  So,
• 12:30
  a few weeks ago, we added a new feature to our website-
• 12:34
  Ashley: Mm-hmm
• 12:34
  MJ: which is a restock request.
• 12:36
  Ashley: Ah, okay.
• 12:37
  MJ: And, you know, I added it a bit of, on a whim.
• 12:41
  Like, I, I was just like, "Oh, I, I think this could be cool," you know?
• 12:44
  I
• 12:44
  Ashley: love that.
• 12:45
  MJ: Um, and then we what the results are, like, were extremely surprising.
• 12:50
  They're still very surprising.
• 12:51
  Um, we get, like, around 10 restock notifications a day.
• 12:57
  We currently are sitting on, like, almost 200,000 of, like, restock requests-
• 13:03
  Ashley: Okay
• 13:03
  MJ: that can't be fulfilled.
• 13:04
  Ashley: Wow.
• 13:05
  MJ: And you know what this means is that we're having, you know, a sizing issue.
• 13:10
  We're having, uh, you know, a lack of supply, um, which is, you know,
• 13:14
  honestly an amazing place to be at- Sure
• 13:16
  because that means that, you know, we actually have more demand than supply.
• 13:19
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 13:19
  MJ: Um, the good thing is that our supply is, like, flexible.
• 13:24
  Um, so what we're trying to do now is, like, equip our brands with the
• 13:30
  information, you know, ahead of time.
• 13:33
  Like, predict, use, like, machine learning to predict what are the,
• 13:37
  you know, stock needs that we're gonna have, you know, in a month-
• 13:41
  Ashley: Yeah
• 13:41
  MJ: such that, you know, they can start generating, or not generating
• 13:45
  , start, uh, manufacturing the pieces so that, you know, we don't, we're
• 13:50
  can get out of this, like, you know, demand more than supply loop, um.
• 13:54
  Because it does take, like, a little bit of time to, you know,
• 13:57
  actually manufacture the pieces.
• 13:58
  That's why we can't wait for the restock request to come in.
• 14:02
  Like, that's essentially, like, you know, being reactive-
• 14:06
  Yes instead of being proactive.
• 14:07
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 14:07
  No.
• 14:07
  Yeah.
• 14:08
  And I'm sure your customers really appreciate the, like, proactive nature
• 14:11
  that you guys are, are building.
• 14:13
  Um, okay.
• 14:14
  So we're getting into the last part of our, uh, time together.
• 14:20
  Um, my question, my I guess a question that I have is Sweta, who
• 14:25
  is my, uh, cohost for this series, she has a concept that she talks
• 14:31
  about a lot called your wealth garden, building your wealth garden.
• 14:34
  And so she sees your wealth garden as all the income streams and
• 14:39
  assets that you're building to be able to fund the life you want.
• 14:44
  And what we're curious about is the specific role that this business,
• 14:50
  Arete, plays, uh, in your wealth garden.
• 14:54
  What is this business meant to make possible in your life?
• 14:59
  MJ: A really juicy question It's a big,
• 14:59
  Ashley: it's a big question, yes.
• 15:04
  MJ: Um, so before, um, Arete, which I actually only joined
• 15:10
  full-time two months ago.
• 15:12
  Ashley: I was about to say, it was recently, right?
• 15:14
  Yeah, recently.
• 15:15
  Which, which is crazy because you have So by the end of, so for everyone, by the
• 15:20
  end of 2026, you guys are set to do four and a half million in, in revenue, right?
• 15:27
  Yeah.
• 15:27
  And so that's, that is just, like, really impressive that you and
• 15:32
  your co-founder built it up to this point, and then you just left,
• 15:36
  you just left Uber two months ago.
• 15:38
  MJ: Yeah.
• 15:38
  A- and I think, you know, that goes back to your question about,
• 15:42
  like,
• 15:44
  you know, The Wealth Garden.
• 15:44
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 15:47
  MJ: I,
• 15:48
  I don't think I'm, like, the most, um, you
• 15:51
  know,
• 15:52
  risk-taking person- Sure in the world.
• 15:54
  You know, I am actually pretty risk-adverse.
• 15:56
  Like, I try to calculate things, like, okay, like, what is the ROI?
• 16:00
  Like, is this actually worth it or not?
• 16:02
  Um, so quitting, you know, my job at Uber, which, you know, big tech salary-
• 16:09
  Ashley: Yeah, pays
• 16:10
  a lot
• 16:10
  MJ: was, yeah.
• 16:10
  Like, I it was not worth it to quit if the business wasn't at a certain level.
• 16:15
  Ashley: That's right.
• 16:16
  MJ: Um, so, which I think is, you know, different from how a lot of
• 16:21
  founders do it, and I think that's okay.
• 16:22
  Everybody has their own founder journey.
• 16:25
  Um, but at least that was, like, my mentality and, like, I would
• 16:28
  rather You know, I was working weekends, I was working nights, like,
• 16:31
  I was just working all the time.
• 16:33
  Um, but for me, it just, it made sense.
• 16:37
  Um, and I think, you know, it was the same thing about the, the jump to, to ARET.
• 16:45
  Um, like, was it, was the business doing a certain amount of, like, you know,
• 16:50
  profit on a monthly lev- monthly- Mm
• 16:53
  level such that, you know, we can both be paid, like, the salaries,
• 16:57
  um, that we feel we deserve?
• 17:00
  Like, of course, within reason, considering that we are a startup.
• 17:03
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 17:04
  MJ: Um, and I think we are there.
• 17:06
  I mean, that's why I jumped.
• 17:08
  Ashley: Oh, yeah.
• 17:08
  MJ: Um, but I do You know, of course, I have, like, a significant
• 17:13
  amount of savings from my previous job.
• 17:15
  Ashley: Sure.
• 17:15
  MJ: Um, and now ARET is, like, you know, we, we get asked, uh, a lot, um, about,
• 17:23
  like, "Oh, like, is ARET just, like, this, like, store?" Because I think-
• 17:27
  a lot
• 17:27
  of people see the store and they think that, you know, oh, like, you know,
• 17:30
  " Is
• 17:31
  that, is that it?" Um, and shout-out to my mom being like, "Are you You're
• 17:35
  gonna quit your job to run a store?"
• 17:38
  Ashley: Oh my goodness, I, um, understand.
• 17:41
  Yeah.
• 17:42
  I understand more than you know.
• 17:44
  MJ: Where- whereas, like, we see, you know, a clear future
• 17:48
  in which ARET is, you know, a
• 17:51
  a
• 17:52
  real, like, tech company that is, like, you know, it's scaled.
• 17:55
  We're, we're having, like, brands from all around the world, serving customers,
• 17:59
  you know, in every country, um, and helping brands, you know, from the
• 18:03
  whole process, like partnering them with manufacturers, like, you know, getting,
• 18:08
  um, you know, income for us on this level, then distribution, then fulfillment.
• 18:14
  Um, so ARET is, you know Katrina and I always joke that we
• 18:18
  are going to IPO, um, or nothing.
• 18:22
  Ashley: No, yes.
• 18:23
  Okay, claps, snaps all around.
• 18:25
  Yes, I love that.
• 18:27
  Um, and one thing that I just wanna kind of point out is- One of the, one
• 18:35
  of the tropes that I see, and I think you probably see about the founder
• 18:39
  journey, is that if you're not quitting your job, and going all in, and eating
• 18:44
  ramen, and, you know, insert whatever thing here, then you're not serious.
• 18:49
  But the fact of the real- the, just the reality of the situation
• 18:53
  is that you can, you can do it.
• 18:57
  I'm sure it wasn't easy.
• 18:58
  I'm sure it was a little bit stressful, but I really appreciate your story,
• 19:05
  because it shows founders who wanna start a business, you can, and it may
• 19:10
  be a little tight for a bit in terms of time, and sleep, and all the things.
• 19:14
  Um, but ultimately, do what you have to do to make sure that you can
• 19:18
  still pay your bills and survive, because those things matter, too.
• 19:22
  MJ: And not only that, sometimes it's even better for the business.
• 19:25
  Ashley: Mm.
• 19:25
  MJ: Say more.
• 19:26
  Because if you are not stressed every day about what you're going to eat the
• 19:30
  next day, because, you know, what is, what is the income of the business?
• 19:34
  But if you give yourself, you know, a year, two years of, like,
• 19:38
  continuing your, like, nine-to-five job, you have your income.
• 19:41
  You know, you do your job, and then after that, you know, you focus on your
• 19:44
  business, on growing your business, um, you know, getting more clients.
• 19:47
  Like, then,
• 19:50
  like,
• 19:50
  ultimately, it's, like, beneficial for you and the business.
• 19:53
  Yeah.
• 19:54
  Um, so I agree with you that this whole trope of, like, eating ramen
• 19:57
  is, like, I- it's, like, I don't know.
• 19:59
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 20:00
  I like
• 20:00
  MJ: s- Maybe it works for some people,
• 20:00
  Ashley: but.
• 20:00
  I like steak.
• 20:02
  MJ: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Ashley: You know?
• 20:05
  Who cares about ramen?
• 20:06
  I love that.
• 20:07
  So, okay, we're gonna move on to the next question
• 20:13
  Okay, so for our next question, this is more so m- my ideology that I love talking
• 20:18
  about, but something that I'm bullish on is that I really believe that AI will push
• 20:24
  businesses back to their fundamentals.
• 20:28
  And to me, the fundamental that I like to talk about a lot is
• 20:32
  knowing your customer intimately.
• 20:34
  And I say intimately because what I've realized is that company big or small,
• 20:39
  um, they tend to do, m- make decisions on outdated snapshots of their customer.
• 20:45
  And so one way that I have been really successful in getting to know founders
• 20:49
  more and intimately, those are my customers, is by having IRL events and
• 20:54
  creating community around the startup ecosystem, the founder experience.
• 20:59
  So with that in mind, what's the last thing you learned about
• 21:04
  your customers that you could only have learned in person?
• 21:09
  MJ: Well,
• 21:10
  I think it goes back to the, the question we talked about before about, um,
• 21:15
  us building an app at the beginning.
• 21:17
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 21:17
  MJ: Uh, and like essentially having no clarity around what is it that, like,
• 21:22
  that our customers actually want solved.
• 21:24
  Yeah.
• 21:24
  Like, what is the problem that we're solving?
• 21:26
  We just had, like, a fashion super app that we thought would be cool.
• 21:30
  Um, and I think opening, like, a space in New York, um, which initially wasn't,
• 21:38
  like, branded as a- Sure global, um,
• 21:42
  like,
• 21:42
  discovery w- you know, platform.
• 21:44
  It was just like, "Hey, let's see if this works." Like-
• 21:47
  Ashley: Yeah
• 21:48
  MJ: um, we started, you know, engaging a lot more with the customer.
• 21:52
  The customer started, you know, coming through our door.
• 21:54
  We started seeing, um, like, what are the brands that they're gravitating to.
• 22:00
  Like, oh, like, they really like to find brands that they can't find
• 22:03
  anywhere else, or the brands that, you know, are coming from different
• 22:07
  countries from around the world.
• 22:09
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 22:09
  MJ: Um, and like, I don't Maybe, you know, there could have been a way
• 22:14
  to, to find out, like, online, but at least for us, like, having that physical
• 22:20
  space to be able to connect with the customer, um, really brought these
• 22:24
  learnings to light, and I think it really helped us decide our, our strategy,
• 22:30
  but then also, you know, better build, like, our website and our online tools
• 22:35
  to serve, you know, the customer that can't actually walk through the door.
• 22:39
  Ashley: Ugh, I love that.
• 22:41
  And then, um, second to last question before Or I guess last real
• 22:45
  question before we close, I would love your take on the state of build-
• 22:49
  of business building right now.
• 22:51
  So that can be in general.
• 22:52
  That can be when it comes specifically to your industry, so, um, fashion
• 22:58
  tech, having a physical retail store that's fashion related.
• 23:02
  Um, what are s- what are some things you're seeing that you're excited about,
• 23:06
  that you're a little scared about?
• 23:08
  You could take this in any direction.
• 23:10
  MJ: Um, I think it, first thing that comes to mind is, um,
• 23:16
  your point about, like, AI.
• 23:18
  Ashley: Mm.
• 23:18
  MJ: Um, I think
• 23:20
  like,
• 23:20
  it's,
• 23:21
  historical
• 23:22
  view that, um, you know, like, that fashion has nothing to do with, with
• 23:28
  tech, and that, you know, there's these
• 23:29
  specific
• 23:30
  kind of companies called, like, fashion tech companies.
• 23:32
  Uh, and I think it applies, you know, to other similar industries.
• 23:35
  Like,
• 23:36
  AI has made tech completely accessible- Mm-hmm to, to everyone.
• 23:41
  Um, and I think if you are not leveraging AI to build the tools that you need-
• 23:49
  Mm-hmm like, not just like, you know, I think a lot of people are falling
• 23:52
  into this trap of giving a spreadsheet to, to ChatGPT and then ask to, like,
• 23:57
  copy-paste this thing in a other place,
• 24:00
  like,
• 24:00
  very basic tasks.
• 24:02
  Um, but they're not using AI to its full, like, potential.
• 24:06
  Ashley: Yep.
• 24:06
  MJ: And, like, we have, I mean, I, I don't, but I think a lot of people
• 24:09
  have this mentality like, "Oh, it's just like, um, engineers, like, are
• 24:14
  the ones that, you know, are, are being able to use it to, like, create, like,
• 24:17
  you know, uh, as I said, like, tools."
• 24:19
  Ashley: Yep.
• 24:19
  MJ: Um, but I think for us, I mean, even though I do have, like, a background
• 24:24
  in, in ML, like, I was not an engineer.
• 24:26
  Like, I do not have a background in backend engineering, and yet,
• 24:30
  you know, we essentially built our entire, like, platform on cloud.
• 24:36
  Ashley: Wow.
• 24:37
  That's a- Yeah yeah,
• 24:38
  that
• 24:38
  is,
• 24:39
  that is super cool, and I agree that there is, especially for women, um, whether
• 24:46
  women business owners or just, like, women professionals- Mm-hmm I would love
• 24:49
  to see more of an adoption of AI, number one, but then also number two, I think it
• 24:55
  would be really cool, to your point, like, find more sophisticated ways to, to use
• 25:00
  it, 'cause it really is a, a great tool once you understand, "Oh, here's a use
• 25:06
  case that I can, you know, apply it to."
• 25:09
  Exactly.
• 25:09
  Awesome.
• 25:10
  Now, we are closing with everyone the same way, and the closing statement
• 25:15
  that we're asking everyone to complete is, "If I could go back to when I
• 25:20
  started my business, I'd tell myself " So what would you tell yourself?
• 25:26
  MJ: I think it has been the theme throughout this whole um, podcast.
• 25:30
  But I think if, you know, we could go back in time to when we started,
• 25:36
  it would be do not build an app.
• 25:38
  And then second, um, make sure that you're solving a real problem.
• 25:45
  Ashley: Ooh, yes.
• 25:46
  I l- I absolutely love that.
• 25:48
  Um, and heavy on not everything needs to be an app for it to be a business.
• 25:54
  MJ: The amount of money we spent on the app.
• 25:57
  Ashley: I get- I absolutely get it.
• 25:59
  Well, MJ, this has been such a great conversation.
• 26:03
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 26:05
  MJ: Thank you
• 26:05
  for having me.
• 26:06
  Ashley: Absolutely.
• 26:07
  And thank you all for watching Founder Confessions.
• 26:11
  We will see you next time.
• 26:13
  Bye.
• 26:14
  Once, once you're, you know, two bad divorces and a mortgage in- it's
• 26:17
  much harder to start a company with, you know, little revenue.
• 26:20
  Yeah.
• 26:20
  So I always encourage people I know, um, to take the swing at, you know,
• 26:25
  at the base with the bat right now.
• 26:26
  It will not get easier over time