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MBA Wire Taps 465: 324 GRE, Retake? Wharton vs Kellogg. McDonough vs Goizueta · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: I'm Emily Sharkey, the executive director of Graduate Business Admissions at Georgia Tech Scheller College of Business, and you're listening to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, December 29, 2025. Looking for an MBA experience where you're truly seen, supported and inspired to grow at Vanderbilt Business, you'll discover a personalized learning environment that elevates your potential and turns ambition into action. Whether you're switching careers or accelerating your current path, the Vanderbilt MBA offers a customizable curriculum, exceptional outcomes, and a community committed to your success. Propel your future with a program invested in who you are and who you're becoming. Vanderbilt is waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, Visit Business Vanderbilt. Edu ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things?
• 1:17
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graeme.
• 1:18
  Speaker A: So continued happy holidays to everyone. I know this episode airs during the week that we'll all celebrate the end of 2025. I hope everyone's had a great Christmas holiday. If you celebrated and you know, we'll get into it. This is a really good show. I know we're in the middle of the holidays, but I'm really excited about this, Alex. We've got a Chicago showdown in this show because we have employment reports from both Chicago Booth and Kellogg. They're in. We're also going to stay in the Midwest and connect with some Washington University Olin students as part of our Real Human series. And then we've got some key tips for round one and round two applicants and as always, our three candidates to talk about. But first, Alex, what's been going on? Have things quieted down on the wires? Are we seeing still a lot of Decision Wire activity? I'm guessing?
• 2:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say that's the most active of the three channels wires that we have. Livewire is pretty quiet right now, as you can imagine. Folks have got their decisions from round one and haven't yet applied for round two in a practical sense. I mean, application deadlines are beginning of January, but for Decision Wire, yeah, we're getting lots of those coming in that are undecided. Right. So folks are weighing up their offers from multiple schools or if they've got wait lists and so on and so forth and trying to sort of navigate that stage of the admissions process. So. And I always find that A super interesting sort of conversation, as it were, to see what sort of offers people are balanced with and trying to figure out. And hopefully with a little bit of help from us, we can give them feedback and so on and so forth.
• 3:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, agree. And we're going to actually you picked two candidates who shared their dilemmas on Decision Wire this week. So those will be two of the three that we talk through, the other coming from on a Plywire entry. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. We do have finally some events coming up in the new year that I wanted to mention at the outset here. We've got this interesting webinar we're going to do which is called does an MBA still Open Doors for you? The Truth About Growth, Leadership and what comes next. That's January 28th at 10am Eastern. We've got some guests from Indiana, Kelly, who are going to kind of walk us through some of the direct kind of connections between what you learn in business school and what may make sense to be put to use in the workforce. We also have some deferred enrollment events coming up in very early February, two consecutive weeks we're gonna, on February 4th and 11th, we're gonna connect with leading MBA programs that offer deferred admission. And so there's a, it's a who's who. You know, we got Stanford and Wharton, Columbia, Berkeley, mit. So there's a long list of schools taking part. You can sign up for all these events by just going to clearadmit.com events. Alex in the news and notes, I picked this because I thought it would appeal to you. I was reading on our website, Lauren, I guess on our team put together an article. Washington University's Olin School has just launched a new Master of Science in AI for Business. It's the msaib they're calling that Accepting Students Now. It says for the fall of 26, it's a full time two semester program designed in response to the growing demand for AI professionals. And the vice dean of education and a professor over there, professor of finance, his name is Todd Gormley, he said if you want to be a successful business school, you need to stay at the cutting edge of the tools that businesses want to use. So there you have it, an interesting twist because this is not an mba, it's a master one year Master's program in AI for Business. So what do you think of this?
• 5:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think we'll see more moves like this. Is it for folks coming straight out of undergrad or for experienced professionals? Do we know.
• 5:16
  Speaker A: I think it might be more of a pre experience program.
• 5:18
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 5:19
  Speaker A: So it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'd love.
• 5:22
  Speaker B: To see that curriculum. Yeah, yeah, definitely see what they're going to teach.
• 5:26
  Speaker A: Well, the article does talk a little bit about that, so there's more in there. I encourage anyone to just take a peek if you're curious. But. Yeah, so it's just interesting and. Yeah. So stay tuned. But, you know, I think you're right. This is probably going to be one of the growing areas in the specialized master's domain. Just as we saw, you know, several years ago, there was this big uptick in specialized masters in like, data analytics, big data, data science, et cetera. So it makes sense. Yeah. We did a couple of admissions tips, as I alluded to at the opening of the show. One is for, I guess I would say, round one candidates. And it's a classic that we run out every year called Should MBA Scholarship Money Impact your Choice of Business School? And it's a really good piece. I mean, I love the way it sort of breaks down, you know, thinking in the long term. And I just want to read a quick quote from this piece and, you know, because this is how I think about it. Absolutely. It says, overall, it can be tempting to jump at a substantial scholarship, especially when the loans one takes for an MBA program seem truly daunting. But in the end, just as with investing in the stock market, a long view is needed when computing the true value of such scholarships. So, Alex. Yeah, that's one that we've got out there and I think is quite relevant, and we're probably going to talk through some of these scenarios today when we get into our candidates.
• 6:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, and I completely agree with that perspective, but we are seeing schools more and more offering these types of scholarships. So, yeah, it is interesting and you can really completely understand folks wanting to sort of, you know, potentially lower their sights a little bit to get a, you know, a more affordable MBA experience in the short run. But then potentially they're leaving, you know, they're giving up on some of their potential ambition in the future.
• 7:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know. It's. It's an interesting dilemma and we'll actually talk through it with these candidates that you picked because I think that there are some scholarship factors at play. The other admissions tip that we ran out, there is more for people applying now in round two, and that's a classic one about essay word limits and character counts. And, you know, essentially the rule is plus or minus 5% in terms of what a school says. But there are several caveats that we get into in the article. You know, like if a school gives you a range of words, you kind of need to stay within that range. If they give you a page limit, don't, you know, go beyond the page limit? And finally, if a school's application system actually truncates answers once a limit is exceeded, then obviously you can't go plus 5% over the limit. So there are caveats. But check that. Check out that tip if you're curious and you're like, slaving away on your essays at the moment, because, yeah, that's a big deal.
• 8:09
  Speaker B: And it's just a question of following basic rules.
• 8:12
  Speaker A: Right?
• 8:12
  Speaker B: And clearly, if you don't follow basic rules, you're not sending a very positive signal to the admissions committee about how you, you know, conduct yourself. So. So there are lots of reasons why this is quite important.
• 8:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And then going back to Washington University Olin, you know, they've launched this program where we connected with some of their MBA students as part of our Real Human series over the last week. And so, you know, we talked to a bunch of class of 27 candidates, and one of them I want to profile here is named Ann. She's 26. She's originally from Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. She studied business administration and marketing as an undergrad and had been working before business school for a few years at Ernst and Young in a kind of senior advisory role. And we asked her, like, how did you choose Washington University Olin? And she said, after spending most of my life in a big Vietnamese city, I wanted something different, a place where I could immerse myself in nature, experience four seasons, and enjoy a more affordable lifestyle. St. Louis checked those boxes beautifully. But more importantly, the academics aligned perfectly with my goals. Washu's reputation for startup specialization drew me in, along with the opportunity to strengthen my skills in business analytics and operations optimization. I preferred a small class size where I could build genuine relationships with classmates. And Olin's flexible concentration structure gave me room to design my own journey without excessive requirements. So that was what Ann had to say. She's currently a first year over at Olin, and we did ask her about is there anything that she would do again as part of her application process. And she had this advice to offer. She said connecting with alumni and current students for insider stories is definitely something I do. She said, don't just ask generic questions. Ask about their favorite activities during special school events, their career expo experiences, or memorable school Trips. These conversations reveal personal, tailored insights that you can't find on the websites and help you craft a more authentic why this school narrative? So that's what Ann has to say. She's enjoying her first year over at Washu. Any thoughts, Alex?
• 10:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, I like that guidance at the end, actually ask them about, you know, individuals, whether it's students or even alums, as they reflect back on their experience about, you know, certain things that really stood out for them in terms of their extracurriculars and various other things. Because if you think back to your days at Wharton, Graham, I'll put you on the spot. What one or two key sort of memories would you share if this candidate was asking you about your experience at Wharton?
• 10:55
  Speaker A: I had this amazing experience at Wharton where I worked for something called the Small Business Development center, which was kind of in liaison with the US Government and the state of Pennsylvania, where basically we worked as consultants part time, obviously for Philadelphia area businesses. And I just found it so fascinating because so often in the classroom you're focused on large companies or big name startups and their stories. And this would be like a restaurant owner comes in and is like, we're not making payroll or this is the issue we have right now and how can we tackle it? And so I really enjoyed, and I will always remember those conversations with what I call just kind of regular business people who have a startup idea or running a small business or a family business. And yeah, that was a key part of my experience at Wharton, for sure.
• 11:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good. And it's probably helped you with, with running clear admit to some degree.
• 11:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 11:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 11:50
  Speaker A: So last thing we'll do before we talk about candidates is we've got this kind of Chicago showdown. Both Booth and Kellogg recently published their class of 25 employment stats. And so I'll just give you them and, and you can kind of weigh in. Alex, we'll start with Chicago. Booth. They had a graduating class that was 663 students. That's actually 22 more students than they had last year. So a little bit of growth in the size of their class. 80.5% of those students were seeking employment. That's very similar to last year. And 89.1% had received an offer of an employment within three months after graduation. And almost 88% had accepted an offer. So those numbers are actually up a bit. So they're up at least 3% in each of those categories, between 3 and 4%. So very impressive there. Compensation held steady at $175,000 median based salary in terms of where people are working. Industry wise, we've got consulting leading the way at 36.7%. That's actually up nearly 3%. Financial services is in second place at 31.6%. That's down about 1% from last year. Technology holding steady, 14.1%. It was like 14.8 last year. Healthcare, 4%, same as last year. And then they have one other area which I guess they say law. I guess that must be legal related areas. And maybe there are a bunch of people doing joint degrees. I'm not sure, but they're 2.7% of the class that go into that domain. And that's unchanged from last year. The last bit I want to give you on Chicago, Booth, is the regional placement stats. Midwest leads the way, 32.2%. That's up more than 2% this year. Northeast is in second at 29%, virtually unchanged from last year. 19.6% of candidates went out to the west coast. That's down 1%. And then we get almost 5% each heading to the Southwest, the South and the Mid Atlantic regions. And those are all very similar to last year within like 1% or so. So those are the numbers from Chicago, Booth. Any thoughts, Alex?
• 14:08
  Speaker B: They sound very good. Yeah, and in line with what you would expect. I want to hear what Kellogg's reporting and then we can talk about them both.
• 14:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's fine. All right, so we'll get into that.
• 14:18
  Speaker B: I'm a little surprised. I will say one thing, I'm surprised. Finance dropped a little bit.
• 14:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, interesting, right? But we've been seeing. Yeah, it's. Yeah, we have seen some schools with, like, better tech numbers in the last couple weeks, but. Yeah, I don't know what's going on there with the finance, but. Yeah, well, let's talk about Kellogg and then we'll get into it. All right. So for Kellogg, they didn't give quite as much data, but I have most of it. So they said that 88% of their class were seeking employment. That was 90% last year, but still pretty similar. And 88% as well, had received an offer within three months of graduation. That was 90% last year. 86% had accepted an offer, and that was 87% last year. Compensation again, $175,000 median base salary, just like Booth. Although in Kellogg's case, that's up $5,000 from 170 last year. Median signing bonus, which they gave us. I didn't have that for Booth. 30,000 in this case. In terms of industries, Kellogg grads went into consulting at the Highest percentage rate, 38%. That's up 3% from last year. The next most popular category was financial services, 21%. That's up 2% from last year. Technology, 19%, pretty much flat. It was 20% last year. So 1% point different. Consumer packaged goods, 9%. That's up from 7% last year. And the last category that they shared was healthcare. That's at 6% off a little bit from 9% last year. In terms of regional placement, the Midwest led the way with 39%, followed by the West coast at 25%, the East Coast 23%, and then the south at 7%. Kellogg also shared that 6% of their grads go international. And as far as any changes in those numbers are concerned, there wasn't a bunch of movement. But I will say the Midwest went to 39%, as I said, and that's up 3% from last year. Whereas the west is down 2%, the east is up 2, and the south is down 2. So not. Not big changes, but some subtle shifting with a little bit more Midwest placement. Yeah. So what do you think of this now, kind of side by side with Booth?
• 16:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, these are two classic M7 programs, so you would expect to see some, you know, similarity with this sort of data that they're providing. So both 175k sounds about right for M7. I'm, you know, we're generally seeing 175k being the bottom of the M7 now, I think, and it's trending up to sort of 180 or whatever. So. So, so that's fine. I think, you know, there's really nothing that really jumps out like, oh, Kellogg is. Is clearly trumping Booth over in this area. And Booth. Kellogg in this area. But it is interesting to see that, you know, consulting for Kellogg and for Booth both ticked up a little bit, and they're both the leading sector for employment. Because some might argue that, well, you go to Kellogg more so for consulting, you go to Booth more so for finance. But that said, Booth's finance number is higher than Kellogg's by some way.
• 17:52
  Speaker A: 10%.
• 17:54
  Speaker B: Well, there's 50% more folks at the Booth are going. Right. So it's 31% versus 21%. So 10% over 21%. Anyway, the point is, finance definitely is a little bit more in the wheelhouse of Booth. So that makes sense. And both of them are sending a healthy number of folks to their own region, as you would expect. That number's around 30, 35%. And it seems like Booth tends to send more folks to Northeast, whereas Kellogg's tend to send more folks west. Yeah, I think that's what you said. So those are some of the nuances. But frankly, Graham, there's nothing that really stands out here. Not say it's not outstanding. I think these are numbers show the real value of an mba, but. But nothing absolutely stands out to me.
• 18:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, these are both very, very strong numbers. I think one of the things that we see is this difference between, you know, you were pointing out the finance, that Booth is sending a little bit more people into finance. Well, you know, Kellogg has about a 5% uptick in tech as compared to Booth. Right. So. And that explains the west coast numbers versus east coast. If you think about a lot of those finance jobs maybe being out in New York or something too. Right, so, yeah, yeah. But these are strong numbers overall and not, you know, no like red flags or anything. I mean, you know, kind of. I'm pretty impressed as I've been with all the employment reports thus far this year. And we see a pretty healthy percentage of these classes looking for employment. So there's not a lot of smoke and mirrors happening or anything. I mean, most people are looking and most people are finding.
• 19:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:30
  Speaker A: So it's good news overall, I would say.
• 19:33
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 19:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so I don't have anything else. I would encourage people, as I said earlier, we'd love to get reviews and ratings and the show. So please remember to do that and subscribe wherever you're listening. That helps us as well. But, Alex, anything else before we talk about our candidates this week?
• 19:48
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 19:49
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps Candidate number one. Our first candidate you pulled from an apply wire entry. And this person is applying to Columbia, Harvard, LBs, and Oxford. They're going to be applying in round two here. So in a matter of weeks. They want to start in the fall of 26. They have been working in consulting. This candidate is actually has done three years at one of MBB. So McKinsey, Bayner BCG, they didn't say which and they are sponsored. So that means they're, you know, their company is going to pay for them to go to business school. They're interested in consulting and consumer goods. After business school, their GRE score is a 323. Their GPA a 3.61. They've got three years of experience, as I said, and they are located in Canada. They're looking to land in New York after business school. And they mentioned that they're currently on an international, sorry, internal rotation. They'll be sponsored. Most of their work, they say, is within fig. And I had to look this up because I didn't know what that meant. But FIG means Financial Means, Institutions Group. So I guess it's helping investment banks, commercial banks, insurance carriers, asset wealth management firms, lenders and even some emerging fintech companies. So that's what that means. And they did say they really want to focus on consumer and explore opportunities at the intersection of consumer and tech strategy, like being the CSO for a retailer. They did say they also have a few strong extra extracurricular activities while working, but also even from college and they feel that their recommenders should be good. What say you, Alex, about this candidacy?
• 21:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, they're a sponsored candidate, right, from MBB with good, strong recommendations and so forth. So that to me sets the tone. They're probably a very strong candidate overall, 361GPA. We don't know where that's from, but presumably it's from a decent institution. Institution, given that they've got access to MBB coming out of undergrad. So I would assume that their academics is strong. They talk about also strong extracurriculars. They didn't go into detail, but that really rounds out the profile very well. So I'm thinking, you know, based on all of that, this is potentially a highbrow candidate. But there are a couple of wrinkles here, Graham, that, that are worth discussing a little bit. One, as you point out, their school selection seems a bit odd.
• 22:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Speaker B: You know, if, you know, you want to be in New York City post MBA, why aren't you targeting all the top M7 programs in that sort of Northeast corridor versus they're targeting also a couple of UK schools. There might be a reason why they want to go to the UK and come back to the us and maybe they've got a pathway to do that because they're sponsored candidate. Maybe the MBA place that they work at has already told them that they can go to the New York office and post mba. So maybe that gives them a little bit more flexibility, but we don't know that. And just a bit curious why they're not targeting some of these other M7s. I'm more keen to suggest that the GRE is probably going to be their weakest point. Right. It's actually 324, I think that went into their notes and. Oh, that's right.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:19
  Speaker B: But, but I think, you know, if, if the, you know, if Everything else really does align and stacks up. You know, they've got really good experience, supported by strong recs, and they've got really interesting extracurriculars and a good GPA from a good school, etc. Then coming in with a GRE score of 324 is going to be their weakest point. So. So they came back with this question, what's better use of my time fine tuning my assays, polishing them, etc. Etc. Or having one more swing at the GRE. Now, as you point out, Graham, before we came online on air, well, they've only got a week or a couple of weeks to these deadlines, so maybe there's not even an opportunity to do their gre. But, you know, let's just take the question a little bit out of context, right, Graham? So let's assume this candidate had the time to reset the gre. Let's say for a couple of weeks they can do some hard prep that compromises their assays slightly. Which should they focus on, assays or gre?
• 24:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, boy. I can't help but get away from the context of them being sponsored. And the reason I mention that is because I suspect that in a kind of uncertain economy and you know, and such, that schools love a sponsored candidate because that candidate is not only going to be placed, but in this case they're going to be placed at one of McKinsey, Bain or BCG because they're sponsored and these are great firms. So I don't know. I mean, I kind of wonder. Yeah, I'd almost rather have, you know, great essays and a great story and because the school, you know, they might be willing to look the other way on the test score especially. It's a gre. It's not like it's a gmat, which people tend to focus on more. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's a. It is a tough call. I think if they had infinite time, I'd say, yeah, take the test again, get a really high score. It'll solidify their odds of getting into like Harvard or maybe some of the other schools we recommend they apply to. But it is tricky. It's a tough call.
• 25:24
  Speaker B: I don't think essays need to be perfect. I guess that's my response to that. I think essays need to tell your story authentically, but then polishing it to just make sure everything is thing. I don't know if that's absolutely necessary. I think time could be then spent on, you know, getting a GRE score that better Reflects your potential.
• 25:49
  Speaker A: Right.
• 25:49
  Speaker B: And I, which I, I just fear that this 324 isn't truly reflecting who they are.
• 25:56
  Speaker A: And I think, you know, some of our advice for this candidate as you alluded to earlier, is that, you know, they may not want to apply to Oxford and LBS if they want to work and live in New York after business school. Right. So they may want to focus their efforts here on a US strategy which would include Columbia and Harvard that they have. But you said, hey, if you want to be in New York, what about Stern? And we also were talking before we come in air about how like what about Wharton, it's down the road, you know, what about even MIT? So hitting those Northeast M7 schools plus a stern would be the smart strategy. And that's where, yeah, it might be helpful to have a higher GRE score to bolster their chances. I just, I have to think there's something they're not telling us about the UK strategy. Like maybe they, you know, have relatives in the UK and would actually not mind living there either. And then things might be different. Right. But if they're saying they want to live in New York, then go to a school in, in the New York kind of northeast. Right. And that would be the smartest path. But I think they're going to land on their feet. There's no doubt. I mean this is an MBB sponsored candidate. So. Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, I want to wish them the best of luck because I don't know, I mean it's, it's a little challenging to retake the test with a couple weeks ago, but yeah, I guess there's no harm.
• 27:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's a question of landing on their feet. You know, someone will pick them up or whatever you say versus optimizing.
• 27:10
  Speaker A: Right.
• 27:11
  Speaker B: Your exact overall profile. And what is the answer to optimizing your overall profile? Polishing, spending a bit more time polishing those assays or taking one more swing at the GRE And I think we can agree to slightly disagree on this, which I think is very healthy too. Right. My perspective is five more points on that GRE would move the needle.
• 27:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. Especially with Harvard or Wharton or Columbia. So.
• 27:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Well I want to thank them for sharing their profile and wish them best of luck as they scramble to get everything together and maybe retake the test before the deadlines. Let's move on though and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week comes from a decision wire entry. This is a candidate who applied to Duke Michigan, Kellogg, Wharton and Vanderbilt in the first round. And they got into Duke, Kellogg, Wharton and Vanderbilt. I believe they are wait listed at Michigan. But so they ran the table almost. They got a $50,000 scholarship at Duke, a $30,000 scholarship at Kellogg and no other scholarship dollars from the other schools. They want to work in consumer goods after business school. And they mentioned specifically Coca Cola, General Mills, Nike, Pepsi or Procter and gamble. They had a 321 on the GRE at a 3.62 GPA which they earned at one of the service academies. This is a military candidate who worked as a, or served as a combat arms officer. They also mentioned that they are married with two young kids. And they said that given their time in the Service, they have 100% GI Bill Yellow Ribbon at each school. So tuition is mostly, if not all covered at each school. This person is a Forte fellow at Fuqua and Owen and then again waitlisted at Ross. So undecided but mentions that it has narrowed it down to Wharton and, and Fuqua. So what do you think about this? I mean, this is an interesting dilemma and obviously pretty fantastic results.
• 29:20
  Speaker B: So yeah, I think they should apply to Harvard in round two and take a swing at it. Not, not to say that they necessarily have to go to Harvard over Wharton or whatever, but I mean they, they could have a free swing in round two and just go for Stamford and Harvard and see what happens. But for round one, I think they got some terrific options. And with the GI Bill with almost free tuition or whatever, however, all that works, I think to me it should be between Wharton and Kellogg. And we talked again about this before coming on air. They're both absolutely fantastic for marketing. The marketing faculty at both these schools are just peerless. Now I'm not saying that Fuqua isn't great for marketing, but I just think Kellogg and, and Wharton sort of notch it up a level. And if they went to Wharton, they could listen to Peter Feder all day. It'd be absolutely brilliant. But yeah, no, I think they have great opportunities and I would really look hard at Wharton.
• 30:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is an interesting one just because for me, like you, I was like, oh, they want to do CPG marketing. And they named some big companies, several which are headquartered in the Midwest. And so I was like, yeah, Kellogg and Wharton are the two schools that ju out on this list of schools they've been admitted to. I'm able to ignore the money a little bit because they've got this, you know, GI Bill. Right. So I, I just would go for the best schools that accepted them. But what's interesting is that she seems to have ruled out Kellogg and now some of this could be. There are other factors. Right. So I was debating with you beforehand where, you know, she mentions, you know, married with two young kids. And so maybe there's something at play where it's like, oh, living down in the kind of Durham community near Duke would be more appealing for raising a young family than being in, like, Chicago or Philadelphia. I'm wondering if some of. Some of that's come into play.
• 31:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:13
  Speaker A: But I can't help but think that, you know, Wharton is probably a really good choice here since it is one of the two that she's narrowed to. And, you know, it is a superstar in the domain of, you know, kind of marketing and, you know, kind of general management and the things that you would want for heading off to one of these firms.
• 31:30
  Speaker B: So, you know, and if she's really sold on going to. To Fuqua, to Duke, I do believe Duke will provide her what she's looking for, you know, in terms of access to consumer packaged goods companies. There's no doubt about that. But I'm a firm believer that if you can, you should attend the program that you get into in the highest tier. Just, it's as simply. It's a numbers game. Right. There are more students at Wharton versus Duke. Right. Which means there are more alumni, there's more networks, there's more folks that are similar to this candidate at Wharton from a networking perspective. You know, there's more companies, there's more this, there's more that, there's more faculty. There's just more and more and more. Now, you know, the counterpoint to that is, well, it's too big. It's overwhelming. I've got a family and kids. I want a smaller environment. But schools like Wharton will do a lot to structure the program so that it can be a personal experience and so forth. So I'm just a huge believer in T as should trump when they can. There's real reasons why the M7 are the M7.
• 32:49
  Speaker A: And I'm going to put one more thought out there, which is that if you go to Duke and you want to work in cpg, which, as you point out, very possible, I mean, there's no issue. And Duke is a fantastic program, you might find yourself landing at Coca Cola or Home Depot down in Atlanta. So Southeast, right? Yeah. If you go to a Wharton or Kellogg, you're probably going to have on the table some of the firms that are located in the Northeast or you know, obviously in the Midwest. So there's some differences geographically too. And I would argue that, you know, Kellogg and Wharton probably have a little more breadth of, in terms of where they're going to send people. But in any event, yeah, can't go wrong. I mean these are all really good.
• 33:26
  Speaker B: Schools and yeah, you can't go wrong. Tim Cook went to Duke, right?
• 33:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: Yeah. So yeah, enough said.
• 33:32
  Speaker A: Anyway, yeah, I want to, I want to thank her for sharing and for her service and congrats on the Forte fellow, even though it's unclear if she's going to use that if she doesn't go to Duke. But still pretty impressive stuff all around. Let's move on though and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week is also a decision wire dilemma person who shared that they applied to Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, Cornell, where else? Let's see, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Georgetown, Michigan, Kenan Flagler and Yale. So man, that is a ton of schools and they had pretty good results when they got into Carnegie Mellon with $110,000 scholarship. They got into Cornell with 40K, Emory with 160, 60, Georgetown, McDonough with 150 and Kenan Flagler with 50,000. Their post MBA career plan is to work in consulting, maybe pharma. So they've got a list of schools which include a lot of those top consulting firms as well as healthcare firms like J and J, Merck, Novartis, AstraZeneca, etc. This Canada had a 316 on the GRE. They did mention that they were weightless at Ross, Fuqua, Tuck, Columbia and Yale. So basically every school that didn't admit them put them on the wait list. They also added that they will apply to Wharton, Darden and Sloan in round two. This person seems like they just love applying to schools because I mean this is a really long list, right? They also stipulate that they would like to be in D.C. new York or Boston after business school and that they will be recruiting for consulting and then later pivot to healthcare. They are trying to decide between one of the five that's admitted them. And in case in the whirlwind of all the schools I've just mentioned, the five are Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Emory, Georgetown and unc. So they're trying to pick one of those right now, probably put a deposit down and then maybe see if anything comes in in round two or from the wait list that they're on, they said that they are not as interested in Johnson or Uncle of those five and that they are leaning towards Georgetown because of consulting placement, location and scholarship. And then they ask Alex, should I negotiate anywhere? So what do you make of this, Alex? This is an interesting kind of dilemma.
• 35:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we, again, we had a conversation about this before we came on air and we actually disagreed on where Tepper sits in the, in. In the tiering system that we sort of advocate for.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: For.
• 36:01
  Speaker B: Because my point of view is, all right, they, they. That classic sort of tier that they got admitted to. Keenan, Flagler, McDonough, Tepper, Emery, it's that top 21 tier. That's what I call it in my head anyway. So it's the, the five schools that go from top 16 to 21. You would argue that Tepper is in the front of that group of schools and, and perhaps a bit closer to Johnson, etc. Etc. So that's where we differ a little bit on this. But the actual scholarship offers do reflect that. Right. So McDonough and Emory are coming in at 160 and 150 and Tepper's 110. So maybe that sort of backs up your point a little bit. Although in my mind that means Tepper's not being as generous. Keenan Flagler seems to have dropped the ball completely because they came in at only a 50. And they're in that same tier for sure as McDonough and Emory and Johnson. And the reason why they've discounted Johnson is they came in at 40, but they've got to think that Johnson is in the higher tier. They are definitely in that top 16. So there's a reason why there's a difference in money offered. So what they're thinking is Emory versus McDonough, 150 versus 160. I think they should take that out of the equation and just consider what's. Which of those two schools currently is going to provide them the best experience and get them to either DC, New York or Boston. And you would probably argue that McDonough, for its proximity to DC has the advantage there. So that's their current set of options as they're targeting round two and their waitlist strategy. My first instinct was you've really got to retake this GRE, bump it over the 320 threshold. That would really help with your round two strategy. But also with any wait list. I'm sure that the schools put this candidate on the wait list because of this GRE score. So if they're convinced that they're not going to be able to retake the GRE Then I think they're going to be potentially less successful off the wait list than they would hope and it might harm them because obviously targeting, they're moving up a tier in terms of some of the targeting for round two, which makes sense. They've got lots of great offers from round one, so why not move up and take a flyer? So I reckon right now, Graham, it's between McDonough and Amory, and if they don't retake the GRE, that will probably be their final potential decision in McDonough for being based in proximity. DC, I think, wins this case.
• 38:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's such a fascinating situation because I would argue that it's a waste of their time, probably, to apply to Wharton, Darden and Sloan in round two if they don't retake that test. I mean, we've got very clear data here that suggests that the schools that have waitlisted them, Ross, Fuqua, Tuck, Columbia and Yale, are all ahead in the rankings of the schools that have accepted them.
• 39:10
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 39:10
  Speaker A: And so even, I mean, all they could hope for is if they retake the GRE, instead of spending time on round two apps and get like a 320 something, then they could submit that score to these other schools and hope to get in. The problem is I don't see them getting much money. So if the money is a factor, you know, it's really going to be challenging. And so that leads us back to, well, where should they go among the ones that have admitted them and given them substantial scholarships? And I would say you're dead on Georgetown. McDonough makes a lot of sense here. You know, Emory's super strong in consulting, too, but given that they want to be in the kind of north, you know, kind of D.C. and north to New York or Boston, you can see a real argument for Georgetown. I did a little digging and, you know, what was it? I told you this before we came on air and I dug it up. Yeah. 63% of Emory MBA grads in the most recent class landed in the Southeast. That number has been holding pretty steady for the last several years, which would lead one to conclude that, you know, the network's probably a bit stronger in the Southeast. You would see difference, a different sort of trend with, say, Georgetown being more, you know, strong in D.C. and the Northeast. I would argue Mid Atlantic. So, yeah, yeah. So any event, I think this is interesting. I could not agree more, though. 316. I mean, I would just, you know, take the money and run. At this point, I don't see. I mean, that's a really not a high score on the GRE to be getting this kind of dollars. So, yeah, unless they want to retake that test, I don't see much happening going forward. So, yeah. Yeah, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. And, Alex, thanks for picking these out. I mean, you always do a great job choosing some really interesting candidates to discuss. But with that, I guess I want to just wish everyone the happiest and healthiest of New Year's as they celebrate later this week. And, Alex, we'll connect in 26 to record the next episode. Right?
• 40:55
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Happy New Year. Take care, Sam.