Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Angry employee shoots lady boss dead in the face, kills three others & walks free!

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Angry employee shoots lady boss dead in the face, kills three others & walks free! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Again, I gets fired from his job at a furniture store,
0:08
Speaker 1: and then mysteriously, a few days later, the female owner
0:12
Speaker 1: of the store is gunned down in to store, multiple
0:15
Speaker 1: shots to her face, along with three other employees, including
0:20
Speaker 1: a teen boy who was working there. Despite a mountain
0:26
Speaker 1: of evidence, and even after the killer is convicted, Bam reversal,
0:32
Speaker 1: not once, not twice, six times. I'm Nancy Grace. This
0:38
Speaker 1: is crime stories. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, with shocking disbelief.
0:54
Speaker 1: Oh look a steer at Tardy Furniture Company. The sight
0:58
Speaker 1: of wine was quadruple shooting. Friends and relatives identify the
1:03
Speaker 1: dead as Tardy Furniture store owner Bertha Tardy, her bookkeeper
1:07
Speaker 1: Carmen Rigby, and a newly hired employee, Robert Goldman. The
1:12
Speaker 1: fourth victim, Derek Bobo Stewart, like the others, the teenage
1:16
Speaker 1: all star baseball player, was shot in the back of
1:18
Speaker 1: the head execution style. On July sixteenth, somebody goes into
1:28
Speaker 1: the Tardy Furniture store, steals three hundred and eighty sething
1:33
Speaker 1: dollars out of the cash register, and leaves four bodies
1:36
Speaker 1: on the floor. Locals described Tardy as a person who
1:41
Speaker 1: was well known and well liked here that says she
1:43
Speaker 1: was very active in her community and her church. For
1:46
Speaker 1: those reasons, many here are having a hard time believing
1:50
Speaker 1: her family business has become the site of such a
1:52
Speaker 1: gruesome crime. Oh my stars, as we learn in the
1:59
Speaker 1: recent break he news out of the Supreme Court the
2:03
Speaker 1: death penalty conviction and a quadruple murder four people dead
2:09
Speaker 1: has been overturned. Curtis Flowers sent us to death for
2:15
Speaker 1: a quadruple shooting, leaving four dead in a furniture story
2:19
Speaker 1: when known to Mississippi. His case now overturned. The victim's
2:26
Speaker 1: birth up Tarty three employees, Carmen Rigby, Robert Golden, and
2:30
Speaker 1: Derek Stewart. Stewart was just sixteen years old. Flowers had
2:35
Speaker 1: been arrested for the shooting seven months after it happened.
2:40
Speaker 1: He has had six trials, but now we learned the
2:45
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has overturned the conviction. Big question what connects
2:53
Speaker 1: him to the four brutal murders? I mean, as he grazes,
2:57
Speaker 1: this is crime story. Thank you for being with us
2:59
Speaker 1: with me. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer Cloyd Steier
3:03
Speaker 1: thirty six years Seattle, PD author Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer,
3:08
Speaker 1: Gary gen Grant. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of la AT.
3:14
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, renowned medical examiner out of
3:18
Speaker 1: South Carolina, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Michelle
3:22
Speaker 1: Dupree joining me right now. Investigative reporter from the Mississippi
3:26
Speaker 1: Center for Investigative Reporting, author of the upcoming book Race
3:31
Speaker 1: Against Time. Jerry Mitchell. Jerry Mitchell. First of all, I'll
3:37
Speaker 1: get into the legalities later regarding the Supreme Court overturning
3:41
Speaker 1: this conviction after six trials. First, let's talk about the evidence.
3:45
Speaker 1: It actually connects this guy, forty nine year old Curtis Flowers,
3:50
Speaker 1: to the brutal murders of four people, including the owner
3:55
Speaker 1: of the furniture store, fifty nine year old Berth Attardi,
3:58
Speaker 1: and a sixteen year your old boy, Oh, I can
4:03
Speaker 1: hardly take it in. What happened, well, Curtis Flowers was
4:06
Speaker 1: working in the summer of nineteen ninety six ass party
4:09
Speaker 1: furniture there in Oneona, and so uh. During the course
4:14
Speaker 1: of working for him, one day he loaded batteries into
4:18
Speaker 1: the back of truck. He didn't tie them down. They
4:20
Speaker 1: fell out. Um, he didn't show back up to work basically,
4:25
Speaker 1: and then called this uh and talked to miss tardy
4:28
Speaker 1: and said, do I still have a job? And Miss
4:30
Speaker 1: Tardy said no, uh, and we're going to do. You're saying,
4:33
Speaker 1: batteries fell off of a truck. Yeah, liket like car batteries,
4:39
Speaker 1: Carter batteries, Okay, because in my mind all I thought
4:42
Speaker 1: of those triple A batteries. I'm like, it's not that
4:45
Speaker 1: big of a deal. No, no, not like flashlight. I like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,
4:51
Speaker 1: I've got I've got my j D. I don't have
4:54
Speaker 1: my degree in you know, auto repair. I know, yes,
4:57
Speaker 1: I know what a car battery looks like, but have
5:00
Speaker 1: and he fell off? I mean, how why was it
5:02
Speaker 1: such a big deal? Well, I don't know. I don't
5:04
Speaker 1: know the exact number, but there was enough enough that
5:06
Speaker 1: it was going to be an expense deductor from his paycheck.
5:09
Speaker 1: And then he just left. Yeah, he never he called her. Yeah,
5:14
Speaker 1: he just never showed back. Then he called to a
5:17
Speaker 1: job because he did not secure the batteries. Is that
5:20
Speaker 1: what happened? He didn't have them secured correctly, so he
5:22
Speaker 1: got fired. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't he didn't get fired.
5:27
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. My understanding his Curtis Flowers
5:30
Speaker 1: became a suspect almost right away, largely based on a
5:35
Speaker 1: conversation that the Mississippi Sheriff's Department Police Department had with
5:41
Speaker 1: the daughter of one of the victims, Roxyanne Ballard. The
5:45
Speaker 1: daughter mentioned that Curtis Flowers had gotten into some sort
5:48
Speaker 1: of dispute or money. Flowers had been working for birth Attargey.
5:54
Speaker 1: He had been fired from that job for failing to
5:58
Speaker 1: show up. He didn't show up because he damaged some
6:01
Speaker 1: batteries he was told he would have to replace. There
6:05
Speaker 1: was apparently a check made out to him on the desk.
6:09
Speaker 1: It's my understanding of how they got fairly quickly from
6:12
Speaker 1: a universe of suspects to Curtis Flowers. You were hearing
6:16
Speaker 1: our friends at Stars their investigative series The Wrong Man,
6:20
Speaker 1: Jerry Mitchell. What happened? So about eight days before the killing,
6:26
Speaker 1: there was a burglary, like someone broke in the roof
6:29
Speaker 1: of Tardy Furniture and stole this is kind of interesting,
6:33
Speaker 1: stole the side door key. What does that mean? Well, say,
6:37
Speaker 1: there's a side door to this furniture place. You could
6:42
Speaker 1: enter from you follow I'm saying you wouldn't have to enter.
6:45
Speaker 1: B Did you say they came through the roof, Yes,
6:48
Speaker 1: they did, and all they wanted was a side door key. Yeah.
6:53
Speaker 1: Very interesting because that means they want to get in
6:55
Speaker 1: at a later date and they want to get in.
6:57
Speaker 1: I mean, if they were just coming into row, they
7:00
Speaker 1: could have done it, they could have taken it right
7:01
Speaker 1: then whatever money was was there. But instead all they
7:05
Speaker 1: took was a key. Okay, go ahead. Sorry, I'm just
7:08
Speaker 1: ruminating on what you're saying, Jerry Mitchell, and so on
7:12
Speaker 1: the morning of July sixteen, so you you essentially, as
7:20
Speaker 1: it was mentioned earlier, the four people who worked there
7:24
Speaker 1: at at the store were killed and and very brutally,
7:30
Speaker 1: and one of one of them, it was very obvious
7:35
Speaker 1: from the crime scene that one of them was trying
7:37
Speaker 1: to run away and were shot more than once. The
7:40
Speaker 1: rest of them were pretty much shot, you know, point blank,
7:43
Speaker 1: you know, just like bam, bam bam. I mean it
7:46
Speaker 1: would it would have been very quick, or there could
7:49
Speaker 1: have been more than one person involved. And so then
7:52
Speaker 1: the employee sees this called obviously called the police. They
7:57
Speaker 1: come to investigate there they've been shot to death of
8:00
Speaker 1: a three eighty caliber handgun. And so then not long
8:05
Speaker 1: after that, law enforcement gets a call that someone had
8:10
Speaker 1: burglarize the car and stolen his three eighty pistol. So
8:16
Speaker 1: that kind of becomes the driving clue. I guess you
8:19
Speaker 1: could say that early part of the investigation. So that
8:22
Speaker 1: gets connected to Oh, what do you mean that gets
8:26
Speaker 1: connected to Curtis Flowers. Well, the theft of that same gun,
8:32
Speaker 1: you know, the same type of gun as was used
8:34
Speaker 1: in the crime. Yeah, my question to you is how
8:39
Speaker 1: was that theft connected back to Curtis Flowers. There was
8:43
Speaker 1: witness testimony along the lines of having spotted Curtis in
8:47
Speaker 1: the area of the car, So that's that's where that
8:50
Speaker 1: comes from. Well, I mean, when Clarence Thomas disagreed with
8:56
Speaker 1: the reversal, he said Flowers was clearly guilty and that
9:01
Speaker 1: the case was not overturned because Flowers is not believed
9:05
Speaker 1: to be guilty. The case is being overturned because it
9:09
Speaker 1: was alleged to the prosecutor on multiple occasions struck black gerars.
9:15
Speaker 1: You can't do that under the constitution. You can't just
9:18
Speaker 1: you can't strike somebody based on race, and if you do,
9:22
Speaker 1: you get a reversal. Bam. It's just that simple. Bats
9:26
Speaker 1: of the Kentucky. Everybody knows the case. Every lawyer knows it,
9:30
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy. When you're striking a jury, it doesn't matter
9:34
Speaker 1: civil criminal, it could be for jaywalking. You do not
9:38
Speaker 1: strike gerars based on race, and in every case you
9:44
Speaker 1: better take notes about why you strike gerars. For instance,
9:47
Speaker 1: I might strike a gerar because they don't have a job.
9:50
Speaker 1: I don't like somebody that doesn't know how to show
9:53
Speaker 1: up on time and be responsible. You don't have a job,
9:57
Speaker 1: I don't want you on a jury. Now that's just me,
10:00
Speaker 1: but that's not unconstitutional. I want somebody that is responsible
10:04
Speaker 1: sitting on that jury. And if I've got a big
10:07
Speaker 1: red flag that somebody can't even show up to work
10:09
Speaker 1: and have a job, I don't want to want my jury.
10:13
Speaker 1: So that is a reason you can strike somebody. But
10:17
Speaker 1: if you're striking somebody because they're black, ah, and oh,
10:23
Speaker 1: let's just say you're trying a DUI vehicular homicide, I
10:26
Speaker 1: don't want somebody that has been already convicted for DUI
10:31
Speaker 1: because they're gonna think, oh, you know, I was mistreated.
10:34
Speaker 1: Now this guy probably wasn't dui and blah blah blah.
10:37
Speaker 1: I don't want somebody that it's blood related to the defendant.
10:42
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of reasons you don't want
10:44
Speaker 1: somebody on a jury, but you absolutely shall not strike
10:48
Speaker 1: based on race, any race, bingo. And not only did
10:53
Speaker 1: it happen one time, but it happened many many times
10:58
Speaker 1: with the very I mean really, and now you've got
11:02
Speaker 1: a quadruple killing hanging in the balance. Take a listen
11:07
Speaker 1: to our friends in WAPT sixteen. We're talking about the
11:10
Speaker 1: Curtis Flowers. He's already been tried six times for killing
11:14
Speaker 1: four people at a furniture store in Winona. That was
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Speaker 1: more than twenty years ago. Today, the nation's highest court
11:20
Speaker 1: throughout his latest conviction, accusing state prosecutors of intentionally keeping
11:25
Speaker 1: Blacks off the jury. A decisive decision, A seven two
11:29
Speaker 1: decision is the US Supreme Court is a pretty resounding decision.
11:35
Speaker 1: The US Supreme Court overturns Curtis Flowers murder conviction and
11:39
Speaker 1: death sentence Friday. The Justice has ruled Mississippi prosecutors intentionally
11:44
Speaker 1: discriminated against Blacks during jury selection for Flowers trial in
11:48
Speaker 1: twenty ten. They said quote, the state's relentless, determined effort
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Speaker 1: to rid the jury of black individuals strongly suggests the
11:56
Speaker 1: state wanted to try Flowers before a jury with as
11:59
Speaker 1: few black juris as possible, and ideally theyfore an all
12:03
Speaker 1: white jury. But on that exact same issue racial discrimination
12:08
Speaker 1: during jury selection, the Mississippi Supreme Court has found Doug
12:12
Speaker 1: Evans did the same thing with Curtis Flowers in the
12:16
Speaker 1: past crime stories with Nancy Grace, we're talking about the
12:41
Speaker 1: Curtis Flowers. He's already been tried six times for killing
12:45
Speaker 1: four people at a furniture store. And why Nona. That
12:48
Speaker 1: was more than twenty years ago. Today, the nation's highest
12:52
Speaker 1: court throughout his latest conviction, accusing state prosecutors of intentionally
12:57
Speaker 1: keeping blacks off the jury. A decisive decision, A seven
13:01
Speaker 1: two decision is of the US Supreme Court is a
13:04
Speaker 1: pretty resounding decision. The US Supreme Court overturns Curtis Flowers
13:10
Speaker 1: murder conviction and death sentence Friday. That justice has ruled
13:13
Speaker 1: Mississippi prosecutors intentionally discriminated against blacks during jury selection for
13:19
Speaker 1: flowers trial in twenty ten, They said, quote, the state's
13:23
Speaker 1: relentless determined effort to rid the jury of black individuals
13:27
Speaker 1: strongly suggests the state wanted to try Flowers before a
13:31
Speaker 1: jury with as few black jurors as possible, and ideally
13:35
Speaker 1: before an all white jury. But on that exact same
13:38
Speaker 1: issue racial discrimination during jury selection, the Mississippi Supreme Court
13:44
Speaker 1: has found Doug Evans do the same thing with Curtis
13:48
Speaker 1: Flowers in the past. You are hearing our friends WAPT sixteen.
13:52
Speaker 1: I have never had either. Well, I have had an
13:57
Speaker 1: all African American jury many many times. To start to say,
14:00
Speaker 1: I've never had a one race jury in my life.
14:03
Speaker 1: Actually I've had many all African American juries before, never
14:09
Speaker 1: had an all white jury. I don't think I've ever
14:12
Speaker 1: even had a predominantly white jerry in all the cases
14:15
Speaker 1: that I tried. But I do know this, You darn
14:18
Speaker 1: well better be able to explain why you strike people. Now.
14:22
Speaker 1: The state claims they struck Jerrars because they knew the
14:25
Speaker 1: Flowers family, or because they knew the victims in the case.
14:30
Speaker 1: They thought that would be a pillable error. I don't
14:33
Speaker 1: understand why anybody would try to keep African Americans off
14:36
Speaker 1: the jury. I mean, for Pete's sake, one of the
14:38
Speaker 1: victims is African American. Mister Robert Golden was African American.
14:43
Speaker 1: I don't know why that would happen, but I do
14:46
Speaker 1: know this. I do know that the evidence points to
14:49
Speaker 1: Curtis Flowers being guilty. For instance, it was shown that
14:53
Speaker 1: he was the one that stole a three eighty caliber weapon,
14:58
Speaker 1: the same caliber that was used and the quadruple murders.
15:02
Speaker 1: Back to you, Jerry Mitchell, what other evidence links Curtis
15:05
Speaker 1: Flowers to the four murders. Well, there was about four
15:10
Speaker 1: hundred dollars less than four hundred dollars missing from the
15:13
Speaker 1: cash drawer, and a state police investigator testified that two
15:20
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five dollars was found in his girlfriend's
15:24
Speaker 1: headboard headboard at the bed. There were also bloody footprints
15:31
Speaker 1: at the scene, and there was quite a bit testimony
15:36
Speaker 1: on this. So the footprints were supposed to be a
15:40
Speaker 1: ten and a half shoe. It was a Fela Fela
15:44
Speaker 1: made a grand hill shoe and that's that's what it was,
15:48
Speaker 1: very specific shoe and tied to were able to it
15:55
Speaker 1: was a little bit of a roundabout way, but basically
15:58
Speaker 1: tried to tie those back to to Flowers. He was.
16:01
Speaker 1: Witnesses did say they saw him in those particular shoes
16:05
Speaker 1: that morning. What kind of shoes worthy aken? It's a
16:10
Speaker 1: Grant Hill feelings. Peela is a shoe company in They
16:15
Speaker 1: make a Grant Hill style back then they did you
16:19
Speaker 1: know basketball player in Grant Hill. Take a listen to this.
16:23
Speaker 1: Another critical piece of evidence is that Phila footwear impression.
16:30
Speaker 1: Bloody shoe prints are found at the crime scene and
16:33
Speaker 1: police figure out they metch Fela's sneakers size ten and
16:36
Speaker 1: a half Curtis's shoe size, and then they find an
16:41
Speaker 1: empty shoebox at the home of his girlfriend, but there
16:44
Speaker 1: was no sneakers in there, and she said that those
16:47
Speaker 1: shoes belonged to her son. She said they belong to
16:51
Speaker 1: her son. I know they're a popular sneaker, but we
16:54
Speaker 1: still have to we still have to think about that.
16:58
Speaker 1: The gun itself was never recovered. They determined it was
17:03
Speaker 1: at three eighty. Curtis Flower's uncle, Doyle Simpson, had reported
17:09
Speaker 1: a three eighty stolen from his car around the time
17:15
Speaker 1: of the murders. So now you've got two inks with
17:19
Speaker 1: the missing gun and the gunshot residue. Just if we
17:22
Speaker 1: have freeze frame at day one, that was more than
17:25
Speaker 1: enough right to convince the police that Curtis did it.
17:29
Speaker 1: You were hearing our friends at Stars, their investigative series
17:33
Speaker 1: The Wrong Man describing the bloody shoe imprint from a
17:37
Speaker 1: Fiela brand shoe size ten and a half, the same
17:42
Speaker 1: size the defendant war and the same style who was
17:46
Speaker 1: wearing that morning, joining me Cloyd Stiger thirty six years
17:51
Speaker 1: Seattle PD twenty two homicide doctor Bethany Marshall and doctor
17:56
Speaker 1: Michelle Duprie to Cloyd style or what other evidence do
18:01
Speaker 1: you find that especially links Curtis Flowers to these four murders?
18:06
Speaker 1: And again several justice on Supreme Court said, this is
18:10
Speaker 1: not about guilt or innocence. We're not saying he's innocent.
18:12
Speaker 1: We're saying the jury wasn't struck correctly. Yeah, that's exactly right.
18:16
Speaker 1: So it's more of an alleged prosecut misconduct enough to
18:21
Speaker 1: have six trials, which is, you know, such a burden
18:25
Speaker 1: on the victims families that have to go through that,
18:28
Speaker 1: But you know the things you have and I don't
18:31
Speaker 1: have a specific list of all the physical evidence, but
18:33
Speaker 1: you have the circumstantial evidence. He was fired from a
18:35
Speaker 1: job he had the circumstantial evidence that that key was
18:39
Speaker 1: taken the three eighty taken out of the truck, and
18:44
Speaker 1: I thought I read that it was mistaken from his
18:46
Speaker 1: uncle's truck, so he would have known the gun was
18:49
Speaker 1: in there and then and then of course I'd be
18:52
Speaker 1: interested in the climb scene if his boss was shot
18:57
Speaker 1: in the face, or was there more shot Star than
19:00
Speaker 1: everybody else. She was the intended target and the others
19:02
Speaker 1: were just witnesses he had to get rid of. That's
19:04
Speaker 1: that's the type of stuff I would look at, But
19:06
Speaker 1: I don't know in this case if that's true. Take
19:08
Speaker 1: a listen to this. The police took him in for questioning.
19:14
Speaker 1: They did a GSR test at gun chat residue test.
19:19
Speaker 1: They found one particle on his right hand, one single particle.
19:25
Speaker 1: If he did all this shooting, wouldn't he have more
19:29
Speaker 1: than one particle? He could have washed his hands. Crime
19:48
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace and the recent breaking news out
19:59
Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court, the death penalty conviction and a
20:03
Speaker 1: quadruple murder four people dead has been overturned. Curtis Flowers
20:11
Speaker 1: sent us to death for a quadruple shooting, leaving four
20:16
Speaker 1: dead in a furniture store when known to Mississippi. His
20:20
Speaker 1: case now overturned. The victim's birth Tarty three employees Carmen Rigby,
20:27
Speaker 1: Robert Golden, and Derek Stewart. I mean as he grazes
20:30
Speaker 1: this as crime stories. Thank you for being with us,
20:33
Speaker 1: with me. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer Cloyd Steyer
20:37
Speaker 1: thirty six years Seattle, p d. Author a Seattle's Forgotten
20:41
Speaker 1: serial Killer, Gary gen Grant, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out
20:46
Speaker 1: of la AT. Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, renowned medical
20:50
Speaker 1: examiner out of South Carolina. Author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide.
20:54
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree Joining me right now. Investigative reporter from
20:59
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Center for Investigative Reporting. Author of the upcoming
21:04
Speaker 1: book Race Against Time. Jerry Mitchell. Jerry Mitchell, take a
21:09
Speaker 1: listen to this. The police took him in for questioning.
21:15
Speaker 1: They did a GSR test at gunshot residue test. They
21:20
Speaker 1: found one particle on his right hand, one single particle.
21:25
Speaker 1: If he did all of this shooting, wouldn't he have
21:29
Speaker 1: more than one particle? He could have washed his hands.
21:33
Speaker 1: That is entirely true to Chloyd Stike or twenty two
21:39
Speaker 1: years homicide detective and author. I don't have gunshot residue
21:43
Speaker 1: on my hands. I can tell you that right now.
21:46
Speaker 1: Gunshot residue is like baby powder. It can come off,
21:50
Speaker 1: you know if you just brush your hands on your clothes.
21:53
Speaker 1: The fact that he had any gunshot residue at all
21:56
Speaker 1: on his trigger hand, I think it's very significent. Yeah.
22:00
Speaker 1: I'd also want to know how long after the shooting
22:03
Speaker 1: happened that that test was given. I mean could fall off,
22:06
Speaker 1: you wash your hands, and you know, although it's a
22:11
Speaker 1: caveat there, there can be false positives on gunchat residue test. Yeah,
22:15
Speaker 1: I mean there can be. And little green men could
22:18
Speaker 1: have come down from ours and gone into the furniture
22:21
Speaker 1: store and killed four people too. Yeah, that could happen,
22:25
Speaker 1: but the likelihood of that happening is very very low.
22:30
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. The police took him in
22:33
Speaker 1: for questioning. They did a GSR test at Gunchat residue test.
22:39
Speaker 1: They found one particle on his right hand, one single particle.
22:44
Speaker 1: If he did all this shooting, wouldn't he have more
22:49
Speaker 1: than one particle? He could have washed his hands, he
22:52
Speaker 1: could have wiped his hands. Okay, could he get gunshot
22:56
Speaker 1: residue on his hand from being in the police car
22:58
Speaker 1: from transferring? Yes, yeah, absolutely, yep. There's also the money
23:03
Speaker 1: that was found in his girlfriend's house. Right, police reported
23:07
Speaker 1: around four hundred dollars was taken from the cash register
23:10
Speaker 1: Attardey's and they found about two hundred and fifty dollars
23:12
Speaker 1: at the girlfriend's house when they hit in the head.
23:16
Speaker 1: Beware of the hit rights, I mean like banks. That
23:19
Speaker 1: does mean you know she was hiding his Snashwini. You
23:23
Speaker 1: were hearing our friends at Stars their investigative series The
23:26
Speaker 1: Wrong Man to doctor Bethany Marshall if this is correct,
23:31
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Heels at
23:34
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. The fact that the furniture
23:37
Speaker 1: store owner, the woman berthat tardy who fired him for
23:42
Speaker 1: losing all that money with those batteries off the back
23:45
Speaker 1: of a truck, if she took multiple shots to the face,
23:49
Speaker 1: what does that tell you? Well, I'm much more to
23:52
Speaker 1: know more about the behavioral evidence before commenting on that, meaning,
23:58
Speaker 1: how did he talk if he had a girlfriend and
24:01
Speaker 1: the money was found in the headboard, how was he
24:05
Speaker 1: talking to the girlfriend about the boss? How did he
24:08
Speaker 1: feel about being fired? Was he obsessing about the boss?
24:12
Speaker 1: Did he have what we call persecutory distress, meaning that
24:16
Speaker 1: he felt that the boss had affected his life in
24:20
Speaker 1: some irreversibly bad way. You know, some people get fired
24:24
Speaker 1: from a job. They're young, and they say, oh, you
24:26
Speaker 1: know what, I'll go give another job or I'm employable
24:30
Speaker 1: in other areas. However, we know many people who get
24:33
Speaker 1: fired who then go back and commit homicide, like workplace violence,
24:37
Speaker 1: they have a recent history of having felt that there
24:41
Speaker 1: was a power and balance between them and another employee.
24:44
Speaker 1: Sometimes we find that another employee got promoted they didn't,
24:49
Speaker 1: They feel underpaid, They have a history of violence, and
24:53
Speaker 1: they feel that their inferior to other people in society,
24:58
Speaker 1: and that gets placed on the boss. So if she
25:01
Speaker 1: was shot multiple times in the face the boss and
25:05
Speaker 1: he had all these behavioral characteristics that would very powerfully
25:10
Speaker 1: point to him as the perpetrator in this case. Not
25:13
Speaker 1: only that, but we now learn witnesses place him in
25:18
Speaker 1: the area of the furniture store the morning of the shooting.
25:22
Speaker 1: Listen make another save two us concerning the trial for
25:26
Speaker 1: his flowers, claiming from Matt point owner when you first
25:30
Speaker 1: saw him? What was his actions? What was he doing? Okay? Uh?
25:37
Speaker 1: In which direction you were running? Like chemistry? We've been
25:45
Speaker 1: away from parts. Okay, what canque your attention to begin
25:55
Speaker 1: with it? Because I ain't say I was seeing around
25:59
Speaker 1: and trull card is not ling costume. To Jerry Mitchell,
26:06
Speaker 1: investigative reporter with the Mississippi Center for Investigative Reporting, a
26:11
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine MacArthur fellow, Jerry, doubt was cast
26:16
Speaker 1: on the witness stating she saw him running from the
26:19
Speaker 1: furniture store, but other witnesses seemingly placed him in the
26:24
Speaker 1: vicinity that morning. Is that true? Yeah, it's super really
26:27
Speaker 1: like a whole there was a whole long line of
26:30
Speaker 1: witnesses who kind of were documenting his trail to the
26:35
Speaker 1: furniture store and then leaving the furniture store as well.
26:38
Speaker 1: Yet a kind of a whole series of witnesses on
26:41
Speaker 1: I find it hard to believe that they were all lying,
26:44
Speaker 1: every single one of them placing him at the furniture store.
26:48
Speaker 1: For I'm where he was fired. How many weeks? Two
26:51
Speaker 1: weeks before the shootings. Yeah, it was like right, exactly
26:55
Speaker 1: like two weeks somewhere in that neighborhood. Absolutely take a
26:59
Speaker 1: listen to this. And since the last trial, witnesses Odell Hallman,
27:03
Speaker 1: Clemmy Fleming and Ed mc christian have dragged cannon are
27:06
Speaker 1: drastically changed their previous testimony that was offered against Missus
27:10
Speaker 1: Flowers from other pleadings that have been filed in this case.
27:14
Speaker 1: This court is also on judicial notice that Patricia Hallman,
27:18
Speaker 1: another witness that testified against miss Flowers in the past,
27:22
Speaker 1: has been convicted multiple council federal income tax fraud, which
27:25
Speaker 1: will undermine her credibility. So it seems to me that
27:29
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence leaks Curtis Flowers to the murders
27:34
Speaker 1: Number one. Multiple witnesses placed him in the vicinity of
27:37
Speaker 1: the four murders the very morning of the murders. Money
27:41
Speaker 1: was taken from the till money was found hidden beside
27:46
Speaker 1: his girlfriend's bed. Bloody footprints link up to specifically a
27:50
Speaker 1: feel of Grant Hill Style ten and a half, which
27:53
Speaker 1: is exactly the shoe he wore and was wearing that morning.
27:58
Speaker 1: He was seen in the y of the car, his
28:01
Speaker 1: uncle's car. He knew the gun was in there, where
28:04
Speaker 1: three eighty caliber was stolen. A three eighty caliber was
28:08
Speaker 1: used in this case. Someone broke into the furniture store
28:11
Speaker 1: specifically to get the key to one of the side
28:15
Speaker 1: doors so they would not be seen at the front,
28:18
Speaker 1: taking nothing else, and he been fired from the job
28:21
Speaker 1: about two weeks before gunshy residue on his trigger hand.
28:26
Speaker 1: I mean to me, that's a pretty strong conviction. The
28:30
Speaker 1: procedural errors of striking the jury and eliminating African Americans
28:34
Speaker 1: from the jury, that's why this is being reversed. Crime
28:51
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Justice Britt Kavanaugh wrote that a
28:56
Speaker 1: white Mississippi prosecutor's gold was to have an old white
29:00
Speaker 1: jury decided the fate of an African American man accused
29:03
Speaker 1: of murder, which is unconstitutional. The court's newest justice said
29:07
Speaker 1: that District Attorney Doug Evans waged a relentless, determined effort
29:11
Speaker 1: to rid the jury of black individuals. It was Curtis
29:15
Speaker 1: flowers sixth trial for the same quadruple murder. Kavanaugh pointed
29:19
Speaker 1: to a pattern, noting that Evans had removed forty one
29:22
Speaker 1: of the forty two prospective black jurors over the six trials.
29:26
Speaker 1: Sherry Lynn Johnson is Flowers lawyer, I think that when
29:30
Speaker 1: seven members of this court, which is often divided, are
29:34
Speaker 1: agreed that there was racial discrimination, then that's a powerful
29:38
Speaker 1: signal that both something went terribly wrong and that the
29:42
Speaker 1: Supreme Court cares about it. She says, if Flowers was
29:45
Speaker 1: happy with the decision, even though he's now facing a
29:48
Speaker 1: possible seventh trial for the murders, you are hearing our
29:52
Speaker 1: friends at CBS joining me right now. Investigative reporter from
29:56
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Center for Investigative Reporting, author of the upcoming
30:02
Speaker 1: book Race Against Time, Jerry Mitchell. If flowers convictions were
30:07
Speaker 1: overturned four times, the reason he stayed in jail was
30:11
Speaker 1: because nobody ever said he was innocent. The court didn't
30:14
Speaker 1: say that, They just said procedural errors required a retrial.
30:17
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yees, So it's a count and it's
30:20
Speaker 1: a capital murder charge. So obviously, at least the Mississippi
30:25
Speaker 1: defense are typically denied bond in in cases of capital
30:29
Speaker 1: murder unless the certain stances. Now, was he facing the
30:34
Speaker 1: death penalty or was did he just get four lives? Hey,
30:39
Speaker 1: he definitely definitely got the death penalty sentence that was
30:43
Speaker 1: never carried out. Now, Jerry, another question, We know that
30:49
Speaker 1: it's been alleged that African American Gerards were struck systematically.
30:54
Speaker 1: Was what that what happened in his last trial was
30:57
Speaker 1: that the misconduct in the last trial. I think essentially
31:01
Speaker 1: the pattern was throughout the cases. But that's my understanding
31:07
Speaker 1: is essentially with each of the cases, you know, I
31:11
Speaker 1: think it was something like fifty percent of the potential
31:15
Speaker 1: black jurors were structed. So that's what happened in his
31:18
Speaker 1: last trial, they struck, they tried to get an all
31:22
Speaker 1: white juries. That what happened in the last trial, that's
31:24
Speaker 1: my understanding. It was just a pattern of behavior. Take
31:28
Speaker 1: a listen to this. And third trial, mister Flowers will
31:31
Speaker 1: try and convict of the kapital murder of birth Attardy
31:34
Speaker 1: Robert Golden, Carmen Rigged Began Derek Stewart. Those convictions were
31:39
Speaker 1: reversed because the Miss Spreene court found the State of
31:41
Speaker 1: Missive he had engaged in racial discrimination during jury selection.
31:47
Speaker 1: And fourth trial, mister Flowers was again tried for committing
31:50
Speaker 1: awful of murders. In that case, prosecution did not seek
31:54
Speaker 1: the death penalty. The jury was unable to reach a
31:58
Speaker 1: verdict and a mistrial was declared. In the fifth trial
32:02
Speaker 1: and also incidentally the first time I was involved in
32:05
Speaker 1: this case. Missus Flowers was again tried for committing all
32:09
Speaker 1: four murders. State of Mississippi reverse course and again sought
32:14
Speaker 1: the death penalty. The jury was unable to reach it
32:17
Speaker 1: the verdict and another miss trial was declared. In the
32:22
Speaker 1: sixth trial, Missus Flowers was tried and convicted for committing
32:26
Speaker 1: all four murders. The jury imposed the death penalty. Those
32:30
Speaker 1: convictions were reversed by the United States Supreme Court. The
32:33
Speaker 1: court found that the State of Missippi had once again
32:36
Speaker 1: engaged in racial discrimination during jury selection. Another question, has
32:42
Speaker 1: this guy actually gotten out on bond? Jerry Mitchell? He has,
32:47
Speaker 1: he has. The judge basically led him out the other
32:53
Speaker 1: day and kind of signaled, he called it troubling. Is
32:59
Speaker 1: a morosecutors have yet to respond to defense motion to
33:03
Speaker 1: drop the charges against Flowers, so he kind of said,
33:09
Speaker 1: you know, if the prosecutors failed to respond that, as
33:12
Speaker 1: he put at, the state will reach the whirlwind. Take
33:15
Speaker 1: a listen to this. And I want to say this,
33:17
Speaker 1: while I'm on record on this case, I want to
33:19
Speaker 1: note the troubling fact that in the nearly four months
33:23
Speaker 1: that this case has been back before the court. The
33:26
Speaker 1: State of Missippi has taken absolutely no action of any
33:29
Speaker 1: kind and furtherance of this prosecution, even after being ordered
33:33
Speaker 1: to do so. The state failed to file a written
33:35
Speaker 1: response to the motion for bailed. The states also failed
33:42
Speaker 1: to file a written response to the motion to disqualify
33:46
Speaker 1: disattorney Doug Evans Evans even though the state again had
33:52
Speaker 1: notice of that. The state has also failed to file
33:55
Speaker 1: a written response to the pending motion to dismiss the end.
34:01
Speaker 1: So I just will have this caution for the State
34:03
Speaker 1: of Misissippi if it contends in its dilatory conduct and
34:06
Speaker 1: if it continues to ignore orders issued by the CORE,
34:10
Speaker 1: if the State of Misissippi will reap the whirlwind. Well,
34:13
Speaker 1: I can tell you this much. I typically do not agree. Well,
34:16
Speaker 1: I never agree with a death row inmate walking free
34:21
Speaker 1: on bond. But in this case, the prosecutors did not
34:25
Speaker 1: respond to a bell motion. I mean, that's like not
34:29
Speaker 1: showing up for a ball game, you forfeit. This is
34:33
Speaker 1: insane that the prosecutors did not respond to a bell motion.
34:40
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Jerry Mitchell, if he goes
34:43
Speaker 1: back to trial, I'm sure the same evidence is going
34:47
Speaker 1: to come in. If he's convicted, do you believe it
34:51
Speaker 1: will be the same sentence? Because I don't ask a
34:54
Speaker 1: good question. I don't know. I mean, I actually I'm
34:57
Speaker 1: actually leaning toward the that he I don't see him
35:02
Speaker 1: getting tried again. If the state thirty bailing on all
35:05
Speaker 1: these other things already, it sounds like they're trying to
35:09
Speaker 1: trip the charges for them. Yeah, exactly. Let me hear
35:12
Speaker 1: that sound again, Jackie, because someone was speaking to me,
35:16
Speaker 1: that would be you while you were playing. I need
35:18
Speaker 1: to hear what the judge said again. And I want
35:20
Speaker 1: to say this while I'm on record on this case.
35:22
Speaker 1: I want to note the troubling fact that in the
35:25
Speaker 1: nearly four months that this case has been back before
35:28
Speaker 1: the court, the State of Missipi has taken absolutely no
35:31
Speaker 1: action of any kind and furtherance of this prosecution, even
35:36
Speaker 1: after being ordered to do so. The state failed to
35:38
Speaker 1: file a written response the motion for bail. The states
35:42
Speaker 1: also failed to file a written response to the motion
35:48
Speaker 1: to disqualify disattorney Doug Evans Evans, even though the state
35:53
Speaker 1: again had notice of that. The state has also failed
35:58
Speaker 1: to file a written in response to the pending motion
36:02
Speaker 1: to dismiss the indictment. So I just will have this
36:06
Speaker 1: caution for the State of Mississippi if it continues in
36:08
Speaker 1: its dilatory conduct and if it continues to ignore orders
36:12
Speaker 1: issued by the Core, if the State of Mississippi will
36:15
Speaker 1: reap the whirlwind man that judge means business. We wait
36:19
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crumbs story, signing off, goodbye friend,