Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #360 | The Weight of Being a Builder | Jordan Rogers from J3 Built
Transcript
- Az (00:17) Good morning and welcome back to the Good Builder Podcast. I've got a really interesting guest today, and I'm dying to talk to him. He was one of the builders that the legends at TPB pointed out at the summit that they're sitting at, and that's for real. And I told this gentleman that there. They pointed him out in the screen and they said, This guy's got great story. He's a young builder. He's going to have a great conversation with you. He's fairly raw. He's going through it. I think it's going to be a great little chat that I have with him. His name's Jordan Rogers. He owns J3. built he's been in business about two and a half years and he's becoming a builder, you know? Becoming a builder. That's pretty freaking cool, man. Well the first question I want to ask you was why? And how did you actually get into building? Where did it all start, Jordan? It started just not wanting to sit in school or an office back in year 1112. I enjoyed school and the social side of school and the people part of it. I really just loved sport and being outdoors. I played sport, AFL footy for yeah, most of my up until two years ago, till I was 30. Yeah, wow. But alongside that, obviously knew I needed a career. I really had hit high ambitions to go and play AFL and do all that and chase. Yeah, playing AFL, I thought that was like my I really had a lot of drive to do that. and then I probably got to 18, 19, where one, I wasn't good enough, but two, I kind of started realising politics in my younger footy days and how that side of works. which is a shame. Yeah, it is a shame. And but then I started kind of sort of realizing I probably think a little bit different than most in school and realizing why am I getting taught algebra when that's not going to help in life and realizing politics and probably had a bit of a different wired brain and really enjoyed people and how people work with each other and team. And found myself just becoming a bit of a natural leader. School, footy, footy clubs. Really enjoyed the leadership side to it. Wasn't going to make footy so I obviously needed a job. I knew I wasn't gonna sit in office or go to university. I was just like, what do I need uni for? You're gonna learn more doing this, this and this. That was my thoughts. Yeah, no disrespect of anyone doing uni degrees because we need those people, but it wasn't for me. Yeah. And yeah, I was loved being outside, loved working with my hands. I was kind of really good at The woodwork through year nine and ten. It's cool, building good toolboxes and stuff like that. I was really always sort of attention to detail and I loved that and took pride in what I did, whatever I did. And just wanted to be outside. And then I did some work experience with a carpenter at the footy club. Who was it? Just a chippy. And first nail bag on and you're super raw to the game. But I just loved being outside, getting hands dirty, building things, creative mind, putting things together, and then getting job satisfaction out of it. I was kind of like, I think this is probably where I want to land. That's so cool. So yeah, chippied away for 10 years. It's come with a bad back, paid a bit of a price with that and footy. Yeah. But then that just led into all right. I got to a stage in my carpentry sort of journey that I just thought I still love the team aspect. I was still playing footy then, so I got that team. Yeah. I guess feel out of the success of creating a team and seeing people succeed with you and trying to set a goal that everyone could become a team and push forward forward together. And then that's when footy stopped two or three years ago and I kind of just knew I was supervising for my boss at the time. I loved the systems, I loved process, it all come back to footy as well. I needed a plan to be able to all right, what are the boys gonna do? I was always capped into my footy sides. Everyone's got a role, how do we get the best out the role? And then I was supervising for my boss, and I was we were lacking some systems, and I tried saying some things, and I could see he wasn't the great, the greatest leader, no disrespect. But then I just kind of said, no, that's my time to I need to lead and build my own team. What do I got to do to do it? Let's go get my builder's license. I like being outside, I like being a leader, I like the team. I think I can take some things that I've learned through leadership and go start a building company. And here we are, 32 now and yeah, two and a half years. Fire out. I thought I was punked for this podcast. I'm fucking punked for this podcast. Yeah? Ready to rock? Mate, you're a legend. I love the way you talk about team. I love the way you talk about sport. You're a leader. Yeah. We've talked to so many people. We've done over 350 episodes on this pod now. All the great builders and great leaders I found come from a fairly strong sporting background, which is quite interesting. Yeah, it is funny that hey you know what I mean? And that leadership part of it. And you know, you know, how much of an impact when people work as a team and they play their certain role, how it can help something achieve something, which could be a footy team or a building business. And I think mate, I that's why I was just staring at you probably thinking, what's this guy staring at? It's a fucking weirdo. I've seen your eyes glitter a then. No, but I was like, this is cool, man. Like it yeah, it did. It did go just you know brought back a few memories of conversations I've had and great builders I know and people that I love and they all come with a similar attitude to you, mate. I appreciate it. I think that is so freaking cool. I I love it, man. That's that's awesome. No, it is man, you got it. Like I reckon you're gonna make your whole attitude, the way you think about a team and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Fucking mate. got this at. well tell us why you're here at TPV. Like obviously you've got the the reason I think you're here and and I saw some of your notes that we shopped through mate and I think it defines you and this is why I was so fucking hungry. If we have more people like you, more younger kids, that younger generation I call you kid now man. You're not a kid, I'm forty five. I don't look at because of my Asian complexion but I am. But you know like I I look at the next generation and all that. We need more people like you. You know when I looked at your show notes why you here because you're like I want to open myself up and learn it'd be better. Yeah. Like you've got it all in a row man. But I know I answered your own question, but why you here? I'm here because I realised pretty quickly that you don't know what you don't know in the building game. Leaderships come easy to me. Yeah. Natural. business I had to learn. I didn't understand GST two and half years ago. And I'm not even joking. Yeah. When I remember doing my first coding and pricing, I was like, do I include there 10% and then that? And do I have And I was learning on the go. So I'm like, Yeah, you get a cert for and they write you a script and go, yep, you go now deal with millions of dollars in and out of your bank account. That's the reason why I'm here because I know eventually once I learn enough, because I feel like I'm a really good learner. I feel like I you asked a guy at TV, like I was running around last year here at this event, and I was like, find me the smartest dudes in sales, who's been there? And I was grabbing numbers, and Lloyd was the one who got me engaged onto this like program. The reason I'm actually here today is probably through Lloyd and the conversation I had with him at this exact break. 12 months ago, I came as a guest to this event. Wow. And I just wanted to, I was very skeptical. As I said, I had a bit of a wide different brain, sales, and scale. I was very skeptical of all these programs and coaching. And I had a conversation with Lloyd, and he just sparked something that just said, I was looking at this big job. I knew I was over my head with it. My ego was like, I want to do this job, big job. Millions of dollar job, early days, big opportunity. But I was like, I kind of know I'm not ready for that, but I'm willing to give this a go. And then I chatted with Lloyd and he said one thing, he goes, and there's an investment to these programs, you know, that's a quite substantial amount and what you would think. Yeah. But the return that you get for what you put in is it you will make that back. Yeah. I'm not being paid by TPB to say that, but the thought process I had was. I told him what opportunity I had and he said, Well, well, how much money do you think you're gonna make? I Well, we should be really achieving ten percent out of each job. That's you know the bare minimum. Well, if you're gonna make X amount, how come you're not prepared to invest this amount to save that amount? Because I'm telling you right now, if someone's been there, done it all, yeah. Not failed, but they've had huge setbacks and all the builders will say the same thing, I'm sure you know all that. That Why not invest that money to get the better? And then the moment I invested, and the next day I signed up and I got involved and I said, you know, I exhausted every free resource I could online through all these coaching programs. My partner at the time has been like, you don't need coaching, you don't need coaching. Like I actually I actually had ambitions then to coach myself, not even knowing how to run a business yet. I wanted to help young dudes. So I come from a bit of like a background where people gave me opportunities. I came from nothing and sort of that sort of spiel. So I always just wanted to help guys who never had a chance. And then signed up, got involved with the coaching program and I'm like, bang, it's the community. I'm like, I'll go and network and I'll talk to that guy and I'll find out what he's done and then So now I just yeah you strive for the guys who are just in front of you and then you're never looking down at anyone but you're bringing up the guys just behind you and then that fulfills you and then You kinda grow and learn and I just love learning. Money will come and go, but it's learning, purpose, and then coaching is yeah, it's where it's at. Fucking hell man. Like you I I'm nearly clearing up. Because mate, you we talk to so many people about any good build up, about like what makes a good buildup. And I was gonna ask you that at the end, but I think you're answering it as we talk about. Well I've I wrote something for you, I pretty much I hope we know. Like you're a fucking good chap. and like the crux of it is passion, integrity, trust, willingness to learn, leaving your ego at the door when you know you need help. You tick every one of those boxes. Everything you just talk through it was like a checklist in my head. And as you were talking, I'm like, fucking bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Appreciate that. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, what the hell? Such a young dude. You know, and and I don't mean any disrespecting that, but you got your head on so straight, so well, you know the craft. All you gotta do, you know, is other little bits and pieces, like while you're here. You're gonna fly man Like you have got it all. And I think it sounds like you've been shaped by your experiences in life. Yeah. And I think that's a good thing. Like, that's another thing that I found, which is Unfortunately, sometimes a bad thing, but when you look back at it, it's a real blessing in disguise. Like a lot of the guys that have gone through hardship and things like that, they're the dudes that have got that passion and that drive and it either it's either gonna fire you Or it's gonna fire you down and you know you give up on both. So I think that's fucking cool, man. Like you you hit every one of those things. I'm I'm sort of like blown away by this pod. I haven't had a cooler pod, like honestly. And I'm not just saying that because it's you've listened to all the ones that I've done here, I didn't say that on any other pods. But this is a really cool one. This is why we did the good deal. Yeah. I wanna see I wanna see guys like him succeeding. Yeah. You know, and I hope Somewhere along the way. Well we're not. Now I'm tearing up. But somewhere along the way. Appreciate it, man. I do. You know tearing up. We we we help support people like you. You know? Yeah. And I think that's true. now let's get on to something so I don't tear up. I'm not gonna go any deeper than that. we're at the TPB summit. Yep. I don't want to cry in front of all these builders. So being who cares if we do anyway. Summit, what's been some of the coolest sessions that you've been to? What have you picked up? What are you looking to learn? I was looking to learn, I was again back to networking and community. Okay. I was looking to learn a bit of the sales and contract stuff, a few tips and guidelines of some bigger jobs, and now I'm progressing in sales and contracts and you know larger works. I was kind of just willing to pick up a few nuggets where I could. Okay. refine some of my back costing and stuff that I've got it pretty dialed in now to my numbers and my back costing and everything like that. I've got sales process if you want one. I went for TJ Garden Homes and I wrote one for him. there you go. I'll send David to you if you want to have a look. Yeah, no, we use a TPB sales process, but probably. So that's all kind of in order, but there was there's a few little items that I kind of just I had three or four questions coming in. But the beauty of these is you you you just rock up and you come. Even yesterday we did a exercise in there. There were six guys in Mastermind Table, guys and girls, sorry, Mastermind Table and They present their biggest constraint in the business right now. And they say their constraint, and what's their specific question they want answered or get suggestions from the room. You know, I'm dealing with a site supervisor who's not quite taking on the systems and processes, whatever it may be. And I yes had my own site, my specific question and constraint that I was trying to adopt. But it was funny, the bloke next to me, his question, and the answer he got from the guy next to me on this side. was probably like the biggest nugget I found for my own marketing thing, which I didn't even come in to want to know about. That's cool. I just grabbed this nugget from his question and his answer and I was like, hang a man, I'm gonna write that one down myself and I'm gonna do that. So whatever answer he got, he had like two or three suggestions from the table. And I wrote down this one that I really liked. I didn't even know that was the answer that I was coming for to get that answer, but I got it. So just by being in the room with there's guys and girls who have doing things in elite levels that you don't even know and you might even think you're doing something really well. You might think you've implemented AI really well. And then someone you talk to and they're like, mate, I'm doing this, this, and this, and you gotta get this and I'm like, fuck, I'm not doing I've got to dump my game, I've gotta catch him, and that's my competitive nature. Like I look at the Lloyds and the Richards and I'm like, I'm gonna catch that guy in front, I'm gonna catch a guy. Knowing I probably never will 'cause they've got ten, fifteen years in front of me. But I'm gonna catch him. He will. And I'm gonna keep running, he's gonna keep looking behind and he's gonna be like, Shit man, he he's I think he's actually gonna catch me. And the guys behind me, I'm like, Come on, let's catch him. So that's kinda my analogy, you know, that's my just my mindset and It's cool. You can catch them. You're gonna catch them all. you can catch them, yeah. I know I sound like Pokemon now, but you can catch them all. Catch them all. Yeah, I reckon you will, mate. Like you you've you just got the right attitude, you've got time on your side, you're doing the right things. Yeah. Man, I can't what where do you build? Where do you actually build? I haven't even asked that. Yeah, we do the lads. We do high-end renovations, extensions, large-scale renaws. We're here in the Gulf Coast, we're in my army. So yeah, we want to stay in that renovation now. niche and help clients to get huge job satisfaction out of clients. So that's what we do. Renovations. That's very cool. If a new build, architectural build comes along the way an opportunity, but at the right margins are not prepared to undercut to you know, show everyone how good our build is for a wrong margin. Opportunity comes on a new high end architectural, that'll probably be where I want to that's where I want to you know strive to be. Yeah. But at the right margin and that's it. That's so cool Jordan. Yeah. I would love to come cover something in the build. I'll get it on site. I'd love that. Mate, I love what you do. I'd love to you know, I'll give it all to you, I'd love to split you to the world. I actually I don't know if you know, but I I helped start Avondale Homes in Miami. Yep. Yeah. I was part of that back in two thousand seventeen, we kicked it off. And I got out of it in twenty twenty four. yeah, so similar sort of So you're not no yeah, you're not just a podcaster, you got some knowledge about me. Yeah, I I didn't have the time on my side and I I I probably didn't have a as good a attitude as you made I think or still. Like I think mate, I yeah, I I look at you and I'm like, man, if I now that I know where you were and If I knew you back in two thousand eighteen, seventeen, I'd be like, oei, let's go do this. Let's roll. I think you'd be pretty cool, mate. But that's that's so cool to hear. T P B again, mate. What what sort of sessions are you heading in today and what are they what are they looking at teaching you and all that sort of thing, Jordan? My memory is shocking, so this is why I'm a huge note and software guy and notes everything. I know the last session's 90 day game plan. Anyone who's new to TPB or guests that I was last year, like the ninety-day game plan you're doing. At the end, wow, you actually map out a 90-day game plan. That's cool. What am I doing in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? Hold myself accountable to it, put a date against it. What are my tasks? That's coming up in the last session. I can't remember what's on next. this morning we just did again, you're testing my memory here before Lee Matthews spoke. It was we just did some. Gee, Vinny gave just some a small tail sales tactic and communication tactic. And we practiced in the room and we kind of actually just role-played it with each other. And the other important one we did, which is you probably have this in your own life or business. Is having necessary conversation. What is your one necessary conversation you need to have? Yeah. Marty harps on about it all the time. It's not a hard conversation. It's a necessary conversation. Yeah. And there will be improvement on the other side of that conversation. So if you're sitting on something, dwelling on something, that supervisor not doing this, the apprentice isn't doing this, my wife might be doing this, whatever it is, you have that necessary conversation and there'll be better on the other side of that. That's what we did this morning. So it was good. That's cool. They're all really good foundational. Quando licenci it. You know, you need to do what's your thoughts on AI at the moment? Do you implement much of it, Jordan? Because you're in that you know, you you would have grown up with more technology than a lot of builders out there. So how how do you view technology and all that sort of stuff? This would be really interesting actually. I talked to so many old school builders. Yeah, that's why I was so excited about having you on and at your stage in your journey and and now that I've got to know you I'm like, Fuck, mate, we would do another one because I think you're a weapon. But what do you think about the AI and how that kind of that do you use it? Again, very skeptic in school and sort of governments and how we're sort of being society is being conditioned in a way with everything. However, if you're not implementing AI in business and the benefits you can get out of it, you're just gonna you can you're not gonna keep up. So it's very overwhelming at times, can be so you want to sort of get one thing going and if it works for you smash it and dial it. So whatever, whether it's Claude and chat, it might have some other ones that we learned the other few days. I tried one, implemented one even like last night. I'm like, I don't think that works for me. Because there's so many out there and there's all the AI gurus that so you really just gotta like do one thing and do it well and start slow. I love it. And once you start slow you go, okay, I understand and you refine it and then it works and then you almost build a task and then the task is working. So at the moment use a little bit of that but I've people always go So I feel like they I guess the older school builders or the ones who haven't grown up and seen it evolve, 'cause I was no phone we didn't really have. social media at primary school, back end of high school. So we kind of grew up with it. Yeah. As it evolved. So we kinda really understand. Yeah. Even you probably have your parents are like that, but now my parents are social media like they don't understand rate rage bait. They don't understand all that stuff. And it's funny because the old school beers like, they think AI is gonna like no build a system or a process. Like what is that first? And then get AI to take over that system and process and then you can delegate. Can't just get AI to go, yeah, go run a job for me. Great advice. Or go and do some bookkeeping reconciliation. No, what is the actual system and process to reconcile your accounts, then get AI to listen to you, watch it, and for anyone who's learning AI and doing systems, have your SOP documented how you do it, create like a Loom video. That's a great example for what I have in mind. Create a loom video, get your SOP to document it. Wow. Then refine it. Test it. It'll fuck up. Refine it. Test it again. This thing's this thing's working. This thing's in motion. Hey, you're gonna look after that now. I love it. Yeah. So it's it moves quick and it's gonna be overwhelming. I understand how. We're builders like we're busy. We haven't got time for sit down for six hours and learn tutorials. No. So like slow, slow, slow. Fine, like but you need it. Great piece of advice, mate. I see builders go from zero to a hundred. Yeah. With with AI. And it's kinda like and and they kind of like feed the beast more and more and more and more, but they haven't refined at first. And I'm I'm with you. I think that's where mistakes happen and where things can really buzzer up on you and AI's not working in your favour, it's making assumptions on things and yeah and then you're in trouble. You trained it, right? We we trained it, yeah, exactly. Training again, which comes back to your sport. Training. We've got to train your systems or your AI and everything. your business, Ashley. H how what are you handling at the moment in your business? Two and a half two and a half years old, yeah, fairly young. Do you Do a lot of the work itself? Or did you wear many hats? I still wear a lot of hats. I'm fully off the tools, which is awesome. yeah. I was off the tools like after nine months. So I was just kind of like. Who does that in their building business? Yeah, it was really cool. again, I was just like, Why did you do that? Was that was that purposeful? Did you think I knew that's what has to happen? I was being really proactive in my learn I love learning. And the moment and if you ask my family I can tell. I can tell my family when like when I set my mind, if I was to tell you I'm gonna do something, I'll like do it. But I like, I'm gonna you know what, next year I'm gonna run 150 kilometers a day. You'll do it. I just do it. Yeah, you got T P V told me. That's why those upside down now. So the institute it's just gonna do it. So once I set my side on like building and business and team and I felt me really getting satisfaction out of, you bringing apprentices along and seeing him learn and we've already qualified one of our presenters as Jacko, who's now you know, he's now he's gone on to another job, but I dare say he'll be back one day. needed some coin before to save some things, which is fine. how many people in your building business? the roles I the roles I play. The roles you play. The roles I play. So yeah, I'm off the tools, which is good. I kind of knew that had to happen to be able to grow a successful business because being on the tools will only get you so far. You'll be able run one job, maybe two, and you're gonna stretch yourself, then client satisfaction will drop, and then that then the experience drops and then the team doesn't want to work with you because that so it all flows. So I knew the steps that needed to happen. And I'm kinda like, I'm gonna put the steps in place. I'm gonna go grab Lloyd and Rich and they've it. So what I need to do and speak to this guy and that guy. So now at the moment I I guess I wear still a lot, but it's all back end. I'm like project management, I'm still sales, I'm still client-facing. the sales and client facing thing I think is a good role for someone like you though. Yeah. You know you're the builder. Yeah. Like for the time being until you know, you may need another step back. But yeah. I think you build trust real real quickly. Yeah, you know what you're doing and I think that's thing. But anyway, sorry. Yeah. So you're still doing that stuff? Still doing that. overseeing with Leanne in the office. She's like office manager. She plays like she almost does our back tossing as well. So a lot of those sort of wow. Yeah, lower admin tasks she's really good at. Jeremy runs the site, then the other three boys on site, Chippy's an apprentice. so still wearing a lot of hats. But I remember I've got my own like role scope, I got my own roles and responsibilities. I've just kind of and now I've built again maybe the helper A. AI, our SharePoint. So it's got our five departments in the business, you know, sales, finance, and now I'm trying to eventually build it's just five tabs that I'll Leanne's got the link to it, but I'll but know the more time I'm spending or the most time I'm spending in one of those five areas in the business, I kinda know it's my next hire or that's so I'm still wearing a lot of those hats, but You can only grow as fast as the sales you get in the door or where the team's at. So only two and a half years, man. You sound like you've got a good team for two and a half years. Yeah, it's a really good team. And you've already stepped off the tools, like that in itself, man, like you've done some phenomenal things. The Gold Coast, what's happening down here? What's the how's the the sales, how's the interest, how's the environment? We've had a few Melbourne builders on here saying Melbourne's cooked. Yeah. Mate, I don't know what it's like. Well, I kinda do know what it's like on the G C but what what's it like for you? How are you finding it? So I found that it's again, I haven't got a huge list of experience and runs on the board to be able to go past what it was like. Yeah, but I was still up working here in twenty one, twenty two and there's just always heaps happening, an influx of people. Yeah. Booming, booming, booming. Markets obviously of property have kind of dropped a little bit and a lot of the developers are probably going, hang on a minute. Yeah. Some of them are getting called out a bit now. If they try to develop, you know, even started last year. A lot of them are getting called out now. in terms of is the return going to be there? Probably not. Yeah. So now a lot of residential developers anyway are probably pausing. Yeah. Our scope, and that's why more we're trying to dive into more renovation work is, you know, the legislation they bought in. Yeah. Now just basically just saying to people, don't invest in other properties because you're not going to make money off it. Yeah. So invest in your own. It still makes sense. You don't pay the capital gains, etc. That's all we're trying to dive into that renovation scope. But it's slowed like it's yeah, a lot of other builders too, and just trades, you know, reaching out, they'll be hey mate, you got any work? We're a bit slow. So last six months I feel like it's slowed up until I don't even say generally like a month ago for us anyway. Maybe because I've started more marketing and maybe I'm Now seeing a lot of leads come through for next year. Yeah. So there's still market there here in the G C it's not I don't think like Melbourne. Yeah. There's still such a livable place. All the homes are fifty, sixty years old if they're old, so either knockdown or rentos. So I think there's still work here and the demand will be here 'cause it's so yeah, it's capped, right? Yeah. So I don't think that'll ever go away. Yeah. And yeah, the market might slop a bit, but I still think people will be willing to invest in the yeah, rentos or builds. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's plenty of rentos and getting into knockdown rebuilds and that on the canals and stuff like that. There's a lot of opportunity and you sound like yeah, you do great building. Well, Jordan, I've got my last question for you, mate. You know we called the good builder and I reckon in about well I'll probably answer it now but in a few years time when I ask this question to someone they'll say J Story build. But what do you think makes a good builder? I'm gonna put my glasses on because I've prepped this question because I wanted to I wanted to read it. I love it. If that's all right. I love it. and and you know what Jordan this shows how much you give a shit. But you it does and this is notes this isn't there is a lot of chat and I'm always I've been big on storytelling and speeches at footy and I always really loved Delivering what I could and refining it. To answer your question, what makes a good builder? I think being a good builder goes far beyond the quality of the homes we build. There's a side of building that most people will never truly understand. The financial pressure, sleepless nights, the sacrifices, the difficult conversations, and the enormous responsibility that comes with running a building business. We're expected to be leaders, problem solvers, financial managers, communicators and mentors, all while delivering exceptional product. And experience for our clients. And I think there's a massive gap between what clients expect from a builder and what it actually takes behind the scenes to deliver on those expectations. However, it's not the client's responsibility to close the gap, it's ours. And that takes extreme ownership. I think the most people that don't understand about leadership is the weight that comes with it. Sometimes you don't have the luxury of asking someone else what to do. You've got decisions to make, people relying on you, families depending on the business, and sometimes you've only got minutes to make that call. It could have consequences for months or years. And whether you get that decision right or wrong, you're the one who has to live with it. That's a part of leadership people don't see. You can be surrounded by people all day and still carry the weight of those decisions alone. Being a good leader doesn't mean you always have the answers. It means having the courage to make the decisions, the humility to admit when you're wrong, and the strength to take ownership of what comes next. One of the biggest things I've learned through the professional builder is that the numbers don't lie. You can be an exceptional tradesman, still run an unsuccessful building business. I've come to realize that your business is ultimately a reflection of yourself. Your leadership, your decisions, your discipline, your strengths and your weaknesses will eventually show up in your business. So, if we want to build better businesses, we have to be prepared to work on ourselves first. I've got a quote I heard on a podcast. It's written on my wall that says, We're entitled to the mountaintops. We are not entitled to the mountaintops unless we're prepared to walk through the valleys. And the richness in life actually comes in both of them. I think that sums up the journey of a good builder. Because the valleys are inevitable. We're gonna wanna make mistakes, questions ourselves, and face challenges that test who we are. But I believe those are the moments that shape us. That's where we learn to lead, where we build resilience, and where we become better people. Because a good builder isn't defined by what they build when everything goes right, they're defined by who they become, how they lead, and what they're prepared to own, take ownership of when everything goes wrong. Far out. Mate, yours sincerely. Jordan, mate, that was the most comprehensive, coolest answer, 100%. I don't think we're gonna get a better one no matter how long our last illness. Like I know that sounds bad to everyone else out there, but try and be Jordan's one. Mate, that was one of the coolest things, and I think it really it it absolutely defined a good builder shows the journey they go through and the things they have to take into account. Fucking wild mate. That was a cool I fucking That was cool. Appreciate it man. can I say one more thing? Yeah. If there's builders out there young or old, been through a time, and I'm learning it still now, like reach out to whoever you need to reach out to. Yeah. Reach out. That's it. Family. That's it. Partner. That's it. Other builders. Yeah. Man in there, Lloyd, and I should add his name out. He genuinely sh saved my business this year and probably saved me. Yeah. That's fucking cool, man. That's what it's about, man. Reach out, yeah. Yeah, fucking real legend. I don't know what else to say bro. I just wanna fucking watch you. So the rest of your really doing this. And I'm sure all we're gonna hear is good things. Fuck, this is this is one of the coolest podcasts. This is everything. I want fucking books to be. God damn. I don't know how to end this. You're inspiring, man. You're inspiring. Appreciate that, man. This is you don't know how much this interview means to me. I know you I I see it in your eyes. We had no part to play in your success or whatever you've done. But it's just it's everything we want for the building. We have to build us. To feel supported. I went through a tough time tonight. but my building business being like Yeah, you you never know how low it's gonna go, but when you have good people around you, all the things you described, you know, you're man, you were so wise beyond your years. And I think builders needed to hear what you just said. I've never been able to say that as well as you have. Tell you what, you don't know what you've done for this, man. It's fucking unbelievable. Appreciate it, man. Do you want the good builder? What'd you say? Do you want the good builder? Yeah, see, I want I think I should just pass over the torch and get out of the seat. All right. We're gonna finish it there. Everyone, I cried on stage and I'm gonna leave this all in. I genuinely mean everything I said. I'm genuinely so grateful I've met you, mate. I'm gonna you know. I'm gonna replay this to all the young builders I know. That's a goal. I'll put it out there and show there's dudes out there that are doing it. Yeah. You know that you can reach out. That's a goal, mate. Alright, mate, I'll finish it there. I think I'm gonna cry.