Latest / The conspiracy / The Darkest Pedophile Ring You've NEVER Heard Of... (NORTH FOX ISLAND)

Transcript

The Darkest Pedophile Ring You've NEVER Heard Of... (NORTH FOX ISLAND) · The conspiracy

0:00
Speaker 1: Before we begin today's show, I want to make a
0:02
Speaker 1: few official statements. Number One, I don't want to die
0:05
Speaker 1: and I have no plans on taking my life anytime
0:08
Speaker 1: in the near future. If anything happens to me in
0:10
Speaker 1: the next few weeks, you know who did it. Number two,
0:14
Speaker 1: all of the facts presented in the following episode can
0:16
Speaker 1: be independently verified using the resources in the description of
0:20
Speaker 1: this podcast. And number three, all parties are presumed innocent
0:24
Speaker 1: until proven guilty in a court of law. All opinions
0:27
Speaker 1: presented here on the following program are solely those of
0:30
Speaker 1: the host and producers aka me of the Conspiracy Files.
0:34
Speaker 1: And with that, let's dig in. So today on the
0:42
Speaker 1: Conspiracy Files, we are going to be taking a look
0:44
Speaker 1: at one of the most compelling conspiracies, in my opinion,
0:47
Speaker 1: of all time, the story of the Oakland County child killings,
0:51
Speaker 1: the unsolved murders of four children. There are links to
0:55
Speaker 1: a international powering centered on a island call North Fox Island.
1:01
Speaker 1: And it's crazy because I'm doing this podcast right now,
1:04
Speaker 1: and just a few days ago I got back to
1:06
Speaker 1: Houston from Detroit, where I actually filmed the whole episode
1:10
Speaker 1: for my YouTube channel, The Paranormal Files investigating this story.
1:13
Speaker 1: We visited the locations where these bodies were dump that
1:16
Speaker 1: you're going to hear about. We interviewed people connected to
1:19
Speaker 1: the story, we investigated leads, and ultimately we actually chartered
1:24
Speaker 1: a boat out to North Fox Island to see this
1:27
Speaker 1: place for ourselves. And oh my god, this conspiracy is disturbing.
1:31
Speaker 1: This podcast is going to be disturbing, and that episode
1:34
Speaker 1: of my YouTube channel is going to be disturbing. So
1:38
Speaker 1: I'm going to time this out so that that documentary
1:41
Speaker 1: is released before this episode. So if you want to
1:44
Speaker 1: go see what we found on North Fox Island for
1:47
Speaker 1: yourself after listening to this, I would highly recommend going
1:50
Speaker 1: to the Paranormal Files official YouTube channel. The link's going
1:53
Speaker 1: to be in the description, and look for our video
1:56
Speaker 1: titled Island the Darkest Place in America. But anyways, got
2:01
Speaker 1: some incredible news coming up soon, guys. I'm so glad
2:05
Speaker 1: to have everybody joining us for this journey here. Let's
2:08
Speaker 1: just dig right in. Decades have passed since the initial
2:11
Speaker 1: events of the Oakland County child killer case, yet it
2:14
Speaker 1: remains an enigmatic puzzle that yearns for resolution. The tragic
2:18
Speaker 1: and brutal murders of four young children whose lives were
2:20
Speaker 1: tragically and abruptly cut short continue to baffle and disturb
2:24
Speaker 1: people in Detroit, Michigan. These innocent victims were forcibly taken,
2:28
Speaker 1: subjected to unimaginable suffering, and ultimately left for the world
2:31
Speaker 1: to discover, instilling shock at the incomprehensible brutality of such horror.
2:36
Speaker 1: The fact that these sickening acts remain unsolved is perplexing
2:40
Speaker 1: and once again disturbing, because during the course of the investigation,
2:44
Speaker 1: concerns have arisen regarding the treatment of key suspects. Was
2:48
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush, the son of a wealthy family, prematurely released
2:51
Speaker 1: from police custody, only to commit another murder a few
2:55
Speaker 1: days later. The prominence of privilege in this case casts
2:58
Speaker 1: a shadow over the justices, raising doubts about its integrity.
3:02
Speaker 1: Equally disturbing is the close proximity of these murders to
3:05
Speaker 1: North Fox Island, a notorious hub known for its involvement
3:09
Speaker 1: in powering Francis Sheldon, a person connected to Michigan's elite
3:13
Speaker 1: through his great grandfather Russell Alger, who served as both
3:17
Speaker 1: US Senator and governor, managed to evade capture despite his
3:21
Speaker 1: affiliation with the network. That's right, Francis Sheldon, before he
3:25
Speaker 1: was brought to justice, boarded his private plane and flew
3:29
Speaker 1: out of the country. This guy was one of the
3:31
Speaker 1: most vile pas I've ever researched. He produced hundreds of
3:36
Speaker 1: thousands of images and videos of childhood, and he's tied
3:41
Speaker 1: to these murders, and he completely escaped justice. He fled
3:44
Speaker 1: the country, and he was never apprehended or brought to
3:47
Speaker 1: justice for any of this stuff. This connection between high
3:50
Speaker 1: society and heinous crimes adds yet another layer of complexity
3:53
Speaker 1: to this mystery, giving rise to various conspiracy theories, which
3:57
Speaker 1: I believe are true. The unfolding of this case is
4:00
Speaker 1: like a dark curtain being drawn back, revealing a diverse
4:03
Speaker 1: array of perverts, suspicious and potential police involvement. Oakland County,
4:08
Speaker 1: located between Detroit and Flint in Michigan, is known for
4:11
Speaker 1: being one of the wealthiest counties in the entire United States.
4:15
Speaker 1: It was once home to executives of major automotive companies
4:18
Speaker 1: such as Ford, GM and Chrysler. However, between February nineteen
4:23
Speaker 1: seventy six and March nineteen seventy seven, this serene community
4:27
Speaker 1: experienced a series of chilling events that captured national attention.
4:31
Speaker 1: Four young lives, two boys and two girls aged ten
4:34
Speaker 1: to twelve, were cruelly taken away under circumstances that bore
4:38
Speaker 1: striking similarities. Their deaths raised a mystery that has haunted
4:42
Speaker 1: the region for decades. The first known victim was Mark Stebbens,
4:46
Speaker 1: a twelve year old boy who disappeared on February fifteenth,
4:49
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. He was last seen leaving an American
4:53
Speaker 1: Legion hall in Ferndale, Michigan, during daylight hours. Four days later,
4:57
Speaker 1: his meticulously cleaned and positioned body was found in a
5:00
Speaker 1: snowbank in Southfield. The autopsy revealed that Mark had been
5:05
Speaker 1: smothered to death and showed rope burns on his neck, wrists,
5:08
Speaker 1: and ankles. Additionally, Mark had been brutally sized. Jill Robinson,
5:15
Speaker 1: a sixth grader age twelve, became the second victim. She
5:18
Speaker 1: left her Royal Oak home on December twenty second in
5:21
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six after an argument with her mother. Her
5:24
Speaker 1: body was then discovered on December twenty sixth alongside Interstate
5:28
Speaker 1: seventy five in Troy. She had been killed by a
5:31
Speaker 1: shotgun blast to the face, but showed no signs of assault.
5:35
Speaker 1: It is eerie to note that Jill had previously expressed
5:38
Speaker 1: her fear of being shot in the face by an
5:40
Speaker 1: unknown man to both her mother and therapist. We're gonna
5:43
Speaker 1: see some weird paranormal psychic stuff come up time and
5:46
Speaker 1: time again throughout this case. It's pretty bizarre how people
5:49
Speaker 1: seem to be predicting deaths and psychics are finding evidence
5:53
Speaker 1: now With Jill. The theory is that Jill may have
5:56
Speaker 1: been smothered to death herself and then shot in the
5:58
Speaker 1: face post mortem by the killer. People think they may
6:02
Speaker 1: have smothered Jill, left her there and when her body
6:05
Speaker 1: let out some sort of an exhale even though she
6:08
Speaker 1: was already dead, the killer freaked out and shot her
6:10
Speaker 1: in the face. So they don't think that the shotgun
6:13
Speaker 1: blast was what killed Jill. It was the smothering once again.
6:17
Speaker 1: The third victim was Christine Mahilik, a ten year old
6:20
Speaker 1: girl who disappeared on January second, nineteen seventy seven, after
6:24
Speaker 1: buying a magazine at a convenience store in Berkeley. Her
6:27
Speaker 1: body was found on January twenty first by a postal
6:29
Speaker 1: worker on the side of a road. The autoposy revealed
6:32
Speaker 1: similarities to the deaths of Jill Robinson and Mark Stebbens.
6:36
Speaker 1: Like Jill, she had not been assaulted, but she had
6:39
Speaker 1: been smothered to death. Like Mark. All three victims were
6:43
Speaker 1: found fully clothed, washed, and well fed. The final victim
6:47
Speaker 1: was Timothy King, who was eleven years old at the
6:49
Speaker 1: time of his death. On March sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven,
6:52
Speaker 1: he borrowed thirty cents from his sister to buy a
6:55
Speaker 1: candy bar to nearby pharmacy. His body was then discovered
6:58
Speaker 1: on March twenty second in a ditch in Livonia, Michigan.
7:02
Speaker 1: He showed signs of his wrists being bound. He had
7:04
Speaker 1: been abused and suffocated, and afterwards his body was cleansed.
7:09
Speaker 1: Now something to note here is that some researchers and
7:13
Speaker 1: authors that have dug into this case have actually found
7:15
Speaker 1: evidence that says that one or more of the bodies
7:18
Speaker 1: were actually not cleaned and scrubbed. Jay Rubin Appleman, he
7:22
Speaker 1: is the guy who wrote The kill Jar, a great
7:25
Speaker 1: book on this case. He actually stated that he got
7:27
Speaker 1: a hold of I can't remember if he was a
7:29
Speaker 1: police report or an autopsy report, but one of the two,
7:32
Speaker 1: and he said that one of the victims, who they
7:35
Speaker 1: claimed in the media was found scrubbed head to toe,
7:39
Speaker 1: was actually found covered in their own urine feces. There
7:42
Speaker 1: was blood all over their body. Semen samples were recovered.
7:47
Speaker 1: The body was not cleaned and washed like the news
7:50
Speaker 1: stated that it was. So why would the news media
7:54
Speaker 1: be lying about the state that these bodies were found in?
7:57
Speaker 1: And if it wasn't the news media, why would the
7:59
Speaker 1: police being about the state that these bodies were found in.
8:02
Speaker 1: It's a pretty weird inconsistency to say that you found
8:05
Speaker 1: the body completely clean and scrubbed, which also, you know,
8:09
Speaker 1: would lead you to think there's no DNA or an
8:11
Speaker 1: incriminating evidence on the body. But it's weird you would
8:14
Speaker 1: say that when in reality the body was filthy and
8:18
Speaker 1: showed obvious signs of abuse. But anyways, during the late
8:21
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies in Oakland County, there were other disappearances and
8:24
Speaker 1: killings that were unrelated to the Oakland County child killings.
8:28
Speaker 1: For example, three girls aged fourteen to sixteen were murdered,
8:31
Speaker 1: with enough variations in their cases to rule out a connection.
8:34
Speaker 1: By law enforcement Cynthia Couldou, a sixteen year old girl,
8:38
Speaker 1: was found nude in Bloomfield, Michigan, on January sixteenth, nineteen
8:42
Speaker 1: seventy six. She died of a crushed skull caused by
8:45
Speaker 1: a blunt instrument, and her body showed evidence of and seemy.
8:49
Speaker 1: Just three days later, another murder occurred when fourteen year
8:53
Speaker 1: old Sheila Srock was shot and killed in Birmingham, Michigan.
8:57
Speaker 1: In August of that year. Jane Allen hitched from Royal Oak,
9:01
Speaker 1: only for her body to be discovered four days later
9:04
Speaker 1: in the Miamisburg River in Ohio. Well, the murders of
9:07
Speaker 1: Cynthia Kadoo and Sheila Srock were solved. The timing of
9:10
Speaker 1: these events in Oakland County remains curious. Could they be connected?
9:15
Speaker 1: We still don't know. You see, Oakland County had already
9:19
Speaker 1: experienced sensational events prior to these crimes. In July of
9:22
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, Jimmy Hoffa, the famous Teamster president with
9:26
Speaker 1: alleged mafia ties, was the last seen in the parking
9:29
Speaker 1: lot of Broomfield Hills in affluent nearby town. So now
9:32
Speaker 1: we're gonna move into the investigation. So you've got the facts.
9:36
Speaker 1: There are four children found dead. Please say their bodies
9:40
Speaker 1: were scrubbed completely of DNA. Police reports that have been
9:44
Speaker 1: uncovered thirty forty years later say they weren't actually scrubbed,
9:48
Speaker 1: and there was DNA and other things found on them.
9:51
Speaker 1: Lots of concerned parents, lots of concerned people thinking that
9:55
Speaker 1: there's a serial killer because of the media attention now
9:58
Speaker 1: on the loose in Oakland County, Michigan. So let's get
10:02
Speaker 1: into what they did to try solve these crimes. Law
10:05
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, noting the striking similarities in the case, believe
10:09
Speaker 1: that the Oakland County child killer was either acting completely
10:13
Speaker 1: alone or as a part of a group, and they
10:15
Speaker 1: were responsible for these four murders. This is the point
10:18
Speaker 1: when Oakland County child killer is put out in the news.
10:22
Speaker 1: And this is something you'll notice in this case that
10:24
Speaker 1: I've noticed is that right from the get go, the
10:27
Speaker 1: police and the news media try to pin all of
10:31
Speaker 1: these murders on one single person, like a deranged serial killer,
10:35
Speaker 1: even though a lot of the murders they have inconsistencies
10:39
Speaker 1: between them that would make it more likely that it
10:41
Speaker 1: was multiple people that were involved. But you'll see that
10:44
Speaker 1: the police and the media really pushed for the single
10:46
Speaker 1: killer theory. Now, it's worth mentioning that each victim was
10:49
Speaker 1: found bathed and clothed according to the news, and deliberately
10:53
Speaker 1: left in easily discoverable locations. The evidence also indicated that
10:57
Speaker 1: the children were fed and kept alive for severaleveral days
11:00
Speaker 1: before their tragic deaths, adding another disturbing element to the crimes.
11:04
Speaker 1: This is true that they found food in the stomachs
11:08
Speaker 1: of some of the children who had been held captive.
11:10
Speaker 1: So in response, a significant investigative effort was launched in Michigan,
11:14
Speaker 1: involving multiple law enforcement agencies and the establishment of a
11:18
Speaker 1: specialized task force. This comprehensive investigation involved interrogating numerous suspects,
11:24
Speaker 1: employing psychics for assistance, and pursuing countless leads. Despite these
11:29
Speaker 1: exhaustive efforts, though the task force was ultimately disbanded in
11:32
Speaker 1: December nineteen seventy eight without solving the mystery. To this day,
11:37
Speaker 1: this case remains open and unanswered. However, a lingering question persists.
11:42
Speaker 1: Is the case truly unresolved or has the evidence already
11:45
Speaker 1: been found and presented but it's just being ignored. Well,
11:49
Speaker 1: there were two major breakthroughs in the case. The first
11:52
Speaker 1: breakthrough occurred in two thousand and five, when Detective Sergeant
11:55
Speaker 1: Corey Williams of the Lavonia Police Department in Michigan successfully
11:59
Speaker 1: connected in from from two unsolved cases. Williams solved a
12:03
Speaker 1: murder committed by Richard Lawson, a former taxi driver who
12:06
Speaker 1: had killed his boss, Xavier Giller in nineteen eighty nine
12:09
Speaker 1: before he fled to California. While examining Lawson's criminal records
12:14
Speaker 1: from an unrelated robbery arrest in Pennsylvania in nineteen eighty nine,
12:18
Speaker 1: detective Williams came across a statement made by Richard Lawson
12:21
Speaker 1: that initially meant nothing to Pennsylvania authorities, but held significance
12:25
Speaker 1: to him. In this statement, Lawson mentioned knowing who was
12:29
Speaker 1: responsible for the snow killings in Michigan. The snow killings
12:33
Speaker 1: are what they called another nickname for the Oakland County
12:36
Speaker 1: child killings. So this guy who murdered someone had somewhat
12:40
Speaker 1: confessed to knowing who committed these crimes. No one had
12:43
Speaker 1: listened to him, No one had connected the dots until now.
12:46
Speaker 1: Now Interestingly enough, detective Williams himself had been a teenager
12:49
Speaker 1: at the time of the Oakland County child killing murders
12:52
Speaker 1: and remembered them vividly due to his father's involvement as
12:55
Speaker 1: a police officer working on the case back in the seventies.
12:58
Speaker 1: With Lawson's revelation, Williams obtained a name Theodore Lamberghin, an
13:03
Speaker 1: autoworker residing in Detroit at the time of the murders. Now,
13:06
Speaker 1: according to Richard Lawson, Ted Lamberghin at one point had
13:10
Speaker 1: showed him a photograph, a disturbing photograph, a naked photograph
13:14
Speaker 1: of who he believed was victim number four, Timothy King. Yes,
13:18
Speaker 1: this would be counted as child. In the photo, tim
13:22
Speaker 1: was naked, and Ted Lamberghin looked at the photo and
13:26
Speaker 1: told Lawson, cute, isn't he? Now? When Ted Lamberghin was
13:30
Speaker 1: pulled over after leaving his apartment in Parma Heights in
13:33
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, he expressed resignation, stating I knew
13:38
Speaker 1: my past would catch up to me. Detective Corey Williams
13:41
Speaker 1: proceeded to interrogate Ted Lamberghin, who admitted his involvement in
13:45
Speaker 1: a pal ring in Detroit during the nineteen seventies. With
13:48
Speaker 1: Richard Lawson the murderer and another individual known as Bob
13:53
Speaker 1: or Bad Eyed Bob Moore. Ted lambergin denied any involvement
13:57
Speaker 1: though in the Oakland County child killing case, and he
13:59
Speaker 1: even agreed to undergo a polygraph test to prove his innocence. However,
14:04
Speaker 1: he failed the test. Detective Williams then confronted Lamberghin, suggesting
14:09
Speaker 1: that his failure was not due to fear, but rather
14:11
Speaker 1: because he was partly responsible for the murders. Ted Lamberghin,
14:16
Speaker 1: seemingly remorseful, bowed his head to the detective and claimed
14:19
Speaker 1: God has forgiven me now. Despite Lamberghine's failed polygraph test,
14:24
Speaker 1: this was not a crime in itself and there were
14:26
Speaker 1: no charges that could be brought against him, so consequently
14:30
Speaker 1: he was released. Reporters attempted to question him on one occasion,
14:33
Speaker 1: but he quickly dismissed them. But the breakthrough in the
14:36
Speaker 1: case occurred in two thousand and six when Ohio police
14:39
Speaker 1: wore hidden recording devices during their conversation with Ted Lamberghin
14:42
Speaker 1: regarding allegations made by sixteen victims who claimed he had
14:46
Speaker 1: brutally assaulted them when they were miners. On tape, Ted
14:50
Speaker 1: Lamberghin admitted to assaulting these young victims, all boys who
14:54
Speaker 1: were under fifteen years old. So, as it turns out,
14:57
Speaker 1: Ted Lamberghin was indeed a so obviously, after catching this
15:04
Speaker 1: admission on hidden recording, Ted Lamberghin was arrested. Now upon
15:09
Speaker 1: his arrest, Ted sat in handcuffs in the back of
15:11
Speaker 1: a squad car and said, maybe God has a plan.
15:15
Speaker 1: Although he was facing three life felony charges, Ted refused
15:19
Speaker 1: an offer of a ten year sentence in exchange for
15:22
Speaker 1: providing information about the Oakland County child killings. This raises
15:27
Speaker 1: questions about what he feared so much that he would
15:30
Speaker 1: opt to spend the rest of his life behind bars.
15:33
Speaker 1: Now keep that in mind for a second, for a
15:35
Speaker 1: little bit of perspective. He could have spent ten years
15:38
Speaker 1: in prison and been out if he had just been
15:41
Speaker 1: honest about what he knew, which he obviously knows about
15:44
Speaker 1: the Oakland County child killings. Instead, he chose prison for
15:48
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. So the truth of this
15:51
Speaker 1: situation is so much more disturbing, so much more dangerous,
15:54
Speaker 1: so much just more vile that Ted Lamberghin chose a
15:58
Speaker 1: life in prison to protect that secret I mean that's
16:02
Speaker 1: in hardcore. The second breakthrough occurred in July two thousand
16:06
Speaker 1: and six when polygrapher Patrick Coffee met another polygrapher who
16:10
Speaker 1: claimed to have tested the Oakland County child killer. Coincidentally,
16:14
Speaker 1: Patrick Coffee lived on the same street as Timothy King,
16:17
Speaker 1: victim number four, and had been friends with Tim's older brother,
16:21
Speaker 1: Chris King. Tim's murder had actually inspired Coffee to pursue
16:25
Speaker 1: a career in law enforcement, which led him there to
16:28
Speaker 1: the polygrapher's convention. Now, during a conference speech on immigration
16:31
Speaker 1: trials in California, Coffee was approached by a Michigan based
16:34
Speaker 1: private polygrapher, Larry Wasser. The two of them discussed Coffee
16:39
Speaker 1: visiting Michigan for speaking engagements. When Larry Wasser mentioned that
16:43
Speaker 1: he was from Michigan and entered the field of polygraphing
16:46
Speaker 1: due to his childhood neighbor and friend, Tim King, being
16:49
Speaker 1: a victim of the Oakland County child killer. Larry Wasser
16:52
Speaker 1: then dropped a bombshell on Coffee, stating that he had
16:56
Speaker 1: actually administered a polygraph test to the quote God who
17:00
Speaker 1: killed Coffee's neighbor Tim King. Now, Although Coffee pressed Wasser
17:04
Speaker 1: for more information, Wasser only revealed that the polygraph was
17:07
Speaker 1: related to a separate case and that both the guy
17:10
Speaker 1: and his attorney were deceased. Now, Wasser's disclosure went against
17:14
Speaker 1: ethical obligations to his client, and he later denied ever
17:18
Speaker 1: making such statements to Coffee, But nevertheless, Coffee shared this
17:22
Speaker 1: information with Tim King's siblings, Chris and Kathy King, who
17:25
Speaker 1: in turn related to Detective Williams, now a part of
17:29
Speaker 1: the new Oakland County Child Killer Task Force. Detective Williams
17:33
Speaker 1: was highly interested in the information provided by Larry Wasser,
17:36
Speaker 1: and in an attempt to gather more details, Williams issued
17:39
Speaker 1: a subpoena to Larry Wasser. However, Larry sought legal representation
17:43
Speaker 1: and refused to say anything further, being aware that he
17:46
Speaker 1: had violated attorney client privilege during his conversation with Patrick Coffee. Nevertheless,
17:52
Speaker 1: Larry Wasser did disclose the Detective Williams, without revealing any names,
17:56
Speaker 1: that the individual he had administered a polygraph test to
17:59
Speaker 1: had confessed to the Oakland County child killing crimes in
18:02
Speaker 1: great detail, as well as other disturbing offenses against children.
18:07
Speaker 1: This incident took place in nineteen seventy eight, one year
18:10
Speaker 1: after the death of Timothy King or victim number four.
18:13
Speaker 1: So despite claiming he had a poor memory and refusing
18:15
Speaker 1: to provide a name, Larry Wasser's extensive knowledge allowed Detective
18:19
Speaker 1: Williams to narrow down the list of suspects by showing
18:23
Speaker 1: Larry a group of individuals who had been polygraphed and
18:25
Speaker 1: cleared in nineteen seventy seven. It only took minutes for
18:28
Speaker 1: him to identify Christopher Bush as the guy now before
18:33
Speaker 1: he moved into Christopher Bush. Let's explore who Greg Green is.
18:37
Speaker 1: On January twenty fifth, nineteen seventy seven, Greg Green was
18:41
Speaker 1: arrested in Flint, Michigan for assaulting a thirteen year old boy.
18:45
Speaker 1: During his interview with Flint Detective Tom Waldron, Gregory Green
18:48
Speaker 1: implicated Chris Bush as the killer of Mark Stebbens, victim
18:52
Speaker 1: number one of the Oakland County child killing. Gregory Green
18:56
Speaker 1: was originally from Flint, Michigan, but had moved to California
18:59
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen seventies, where he became involved in
19:02
Speaker 1: coaching a young boys baseball team. Of course, this is
19:06
Speaker 1: where these people are always drawn now. Gregory greened multiple
19:10
Speaker 1: members of this team. He coached, and he faced multiple
19:13
Speaker 1: charges including criminal conduct, kidnapping, and attempted murder. Green spent
19:18
Speaker 1: six months in Orange County jail after choking two victims,
19:22
Speaker 1: one of whom almost died when Green strangled him while
19:25
Speaker 1: suing him. Now, Gregory Green burned this young boy with
19:29
Speaker 1: cigarettes as an attempt to wake him up because he
19:31
Speaker 1: thought he was dead, then dumped him on the grass
19:34
Speaker 1: near a hospital, and sped off in his car. This
19:36
Speaker 1: victim survived and identified greg to law enforcement. It's important
19:40
Speaker 1: to note a similarity with the victim number two of
19:43
Speaker 1: the Oakland County child killings now, Jill Robinson's body was
19:46
Speaker 1: dumped near the Troy Police Department. Green's arrest took place
19:50
Speaker 1: on August second, nineteen seventy four. When questioned about his
19:54
Speaker 1: experiences with women, Gregory Green admitted to struggling to become aroused.
19:59
Speaker 1: On January third, nineteen seventy five, Green was sentenced to
20:02
Speaker 1: the Patent State Mental Hospital in San Bernardino, California, as
20:06
Speaker 1: a mentally disturbed sex offender. This occurred one year prior
20:10
Speaker 1: to the start of the Oakland County child killings. Less
20:13
Speaker 1: than a year later, on January twenty first, nineteen seventy six,
20:17
Speaker 1: Gregory Green was released and returned to Michigan just days
20:21
Speaker 1: before the abduction and murder of Mark Stebbens, or victim
20:25
Speaker 1: number one. In May of nineteen seventy six, Christopher Bush
20:28
Speaker 1: and greg Green abducted Kenneth Bowman, a thirteen year old boy,
20:32
Speaker 1: whom they subsequently send in a wooded area. Bowman recalled
20:35
Speaker 1: that Green displayed more violence during this incident and even
20:38
Speaker 1: choked him until he lost consciousness. Further evidence of Green's
20:42
Speaker 1: dangerous tendencies emerged when he asked Bowman to accompany him
20:46
Speaker 1: to a store with the intention of kidnapping and killing
20:49
Speaker 1: another young boy. He admitted to this. Gregory Green told
20:53
Speaker 1: this young boy, you should come with me to the
20:55
Speaker 1: store so we can kidnap and murder a different young boy.
21:00
Speaker 1: Due to the stile crimes against Kenneth Bowman, Gregory Green,
21:03
Speaker 1: after he was caught, was brought in for questioning by
21:05
Speaker 1: the Flint Police Department on January twenty fifth, nineteen seventy seven,
21:09
Speaker 1: which is when Green implicated Chris Busch as the killer
21:12
Speaker 1: of Mark Stebbens. So we had somebody back in nineteen
21:16
Speaker 1: seventy seven. Already implicating a suspect, and those leads were
21:21
Speaker 1: never We're gonna get into it. The following day after
21:26
Speaker 1: this confession, the police searched Gregory Green's van and discovered
21:30
Speaker 1: two pairs of panties, but no further action was taken
21:33
Speaker 1: regarding these findings. Could these panties have belonged to victims
21:37
Speaker 1: Jill Robinson and Christine Maheilich. On the same day, Christopher
21:41
Speaker 1: Bush was apprehended by the Flint Police Department for sele
21:45
Speaker 1: crimes against children, specifically for crimes against Bowman, who was
21:50
Speaker 1: abducted by Green and Christopher Now Christopher Bush denied any
21:53
Speaker 1: involvement in Mark Stevens murder, but admitted to being a
21:56
Speaker 1: part of a Big Brother program and he even provided
21:59
Speaker 1: pick up spots where he would pick up children as
22:01
Speaker 1: a part of the program, spots that eerily coincided with
22:05
Speaker 1: the locations where the first three Oakland County child killing
22:09
Speaker 1: victims were abducted from. So he willfully gave this information, said, oh, yeah,
22:13
Speaker 1: I help children in these areas. This is where I
22:15
Speaker 1: pick them up from. Three of those areas were the
22:19
Speaker 1: spots where children were abducted to be murdered as a
22:22
Speaker 1: part of Oakland County child killer now Bush. Christopher Bush
22:26
Speaker 1: mentioned to the police that he had a shared fantasy
22:28
Speaker 1: with Gregory Green involving a split shift child imprisonment scenario
22:33
Speaker 1: where one captor would work during the day and the
22:35
Speaker 1: other at night to ensure that one captor was always
22:38
Speaker 1: present with their victim who was being held hostage. Christopher
22:42
Speaker 1: Bush underwent a polygraph test administered by Ralph Cabo, and
22:46
Speaker 1: he was cleared. However, upon closer examination of Cobo's polygraph
22:50
Speaker 1: results in February two thousand and eight, three separate examiners
22:54
Speaker 1: concluded that Christopher Bush's results should have been inconclusive. After
23:00
Speaker 1: Christopher and Gregory Green were arrested for the kidnapping and
23:04
Speaker 1: rip of that young boy, Kenneth Bowman, Christopher Bush's residence
23:09
Speaker 1: in Alma, Michigan was searched by police, and there the
23:12
Speaker 1: police discovered shotguns and a massive amount of child and
23:17
Speaker 1: this evidence would never be seen again. We're gonna talk
23:20
Speaker 1: about that in a second. On January thirty first, nineteen
23:23
Speaker 1: seventy seven, Christopher Bush was released on bond after his arrest. Subsequently,
23:28
Speaker 1: he faced several more arrests connected to encounters with young boys,
23:32
Speaker 1: but every time that he was arrested and charged, he
23:35
Speaker 1: was shortly released afterwards. Now, the question really starts to
23:39
Speaker 1: rise in one's mind as to why the police repeatedly
23:43
Speaker 1: let Christopher go and get away with these crimes despite
23:46
Speaker 1: having him in custody multiple times on multiple different disturbing
23:52
Speaker 1: crime charges against kids. Now, one possible explanation as to
23:56
Speaker 1: why he kept getting arrested and released is Christopher Bush's wealth.
24:00
Speaker 1: For example, Gregory Green received a life sentence while Christopher
24:04
Speaker 1: Bush did not for their involvement in the same crime
24:07
Speaker 1: that led to their questioning. Now, Gregory Green died in
24:10
Speaker 1: prison in the mid nineteen nineties. However, in two thousand
24:13
Speaker 1: and eight, Detective Williams interviewed Gregory Green's former cellmate, who
24:17
Speaker 1: stated that Gregory said he killed four kids and got
24:20
Speaker 1: away with it. This cellmate passed a polygraph test. So
24:24
Speaker 1: we've got Gregory Green admitting that he murdered children. He's
24:27
Speaker 1: implicating Chris Bush. Back in the seventies, Gregory Green and
24:31
Speaker 1: Chris Bush together had already kidnapped and murd a young boy.
24:36
Speaker 1: They had both been found with child porn. They were
24:38
Speaker 1: both hardcore pass and yet never officially a suspect or
24:43
Speaker 1: anything crazy. Right, And now we're going to get into
24:47
Speaker 1: the even wilder part of this Christopher Bush's story. So
24:51
Speaker 1: who is Christopher Bush and how is he able to
24:54
Speaker 1: evade connection to the Oakland County child killing crimes or
24:58
Speaker 1: any other crimes despite being a key suspect along with
25:02
Speaker 1: his accomplice and friend Greg Green. So Christopher Bush was
25:06
Speaker 1: the son of Harold Lee Bush, and Christopher held significant
25:09
Speaker 1: power and influence within the community due to his father's
25:12
Speaker 1: high ranking executive position at General Motors. That's right, Christopher
25:17
Speaker 1: Bush's father, Harold Lee Bush, was the chief financial officer
25:21
Speaker 1: of General Motors, So his family was extremely wealthy and
25:25
Speaker 1: his family held a lot of power in the Detroit area.
25:29
Speaker 1: This is back when Detroit was motor city and cars
25:32
Speaker 1: ruled Detroit's economy, so, needless to say, Christopher Bush had
25:37
Speaker 1: some power behind him. He attended the prestigious institute L
25:40
Speaker 1: Rosie in Switzerland, which has a history of educating royalty
25:44
Speaker 1: and is often referred to as the School of Kings.
25:47
Speaker 1: According to his brother Charles, It's believed that Christopher's attraction
25:50
Speaker 1: to young boys began during his time at L. Rosie.
25:53
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush even his own brother, John Bush's sons Brent
25:58
Speaker 1: and Scott. There's a phone call made on March nineteenth,
26:02
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, urging the police to investigate Christopher Bush's
26:06
Speaker 1: cottage by the lake as he was seen with two miners. However,
26:10
Speaker 1: no action was taken. Shortly afterwards, on March twenty second,
26:14
Speaker 1: just three days later, Timothy King's bruised, battered, lifeless body
26:20
Speaker 1: was discovered. An article published on March twelfth, nineteen seventy seven,
26:23
Speaker 1: in the Travis City Record Eagle mentioned Christopher Bush in
26:26
Speaker 1: relation to the North Fox Island child pi ring. The
26:30
Speaker 1: article stated that the child Turfy ring obtained roles film
26:35
Speaker 1: roles of child from Chris. Obviously, as you can imagine,
26:39
Speaker 1: Christopher himself had filmed with his victims, which indicated that
26:43
Speaker 1: Christopher had a much deeper involvement with the child ring
26:47
Speaker 1: than being just a client who purchased this sickening material.
26:51
Speaker 1: And now we get into North Fox Island. This is crazy.
26:54
Speaker 1: So we could do a whole podcast about this, and
26:57
Speaker 1: I think I'm actually going to do a separate North
27:00
Speaker 1: Fox Island podcast because there is so much information here
27:04
Speaker 1: connecting this pring to Catholic churches. To other rings in America,
27:08
Speaker 1: to boy Scout troops, other serial killers. It's crazy it
27:13
Speaker 1: happened on this island, but let's talk about it briefly.
27:15
Speaker 1: The events surrounding North Fox Island are also, like we
27:19
Speaker 1: said before, worth investigating. On July twenty third, nineteen seventy six,
27:23
Speaker 1: Gerald Richards, a gym coach at Saint Joseph's Elementary in
27:27
Speaker 1: Port here On, Michigan, was arrested for engaging in activity
27:31
Speaker 1: with a ten year old boy. Richards, who worked as
27:35
Speaker 1: a magician part time and is definitely one of the
27:37
Speaker 1: creepiest looking guys I've ever seen, was connected to Francis
27:41
Speaker 1: Sheldon's North Fox Island operation, where child he was being
27:44
Speaker 1: produced and sold and civil activities involving children took place.
27:49
Speaker 1: Gerald Richards provided information about Frank Sheldon to the police
27:53
Speaker 1: as a part of a plea deal. He implicated Dire Grossman,
27:56
Speaker 1: a New York millionaire, Adam Starchild, an expert in moneylawn,
28:00
Speaker 1: and Reverend Claudius bud ierma Vermile, a pastor of Alto
28:04
Speaker 1: Parish and Tennessee who later served prison time for operating
28:08
Speaker 1: a house of boy You see a role of undeveloped
28:11
Speaker 1: film sent to Gerald Richards from California was discovered to
28:14
Speaker 1: contain photos taken at Boys Farm, Incorporated in Alto, Tennessee.
28:18
Speaker 1: Boy's Farm was an organization affiliated with a church and
28:21
Speaker 1: ran by a priest that had been exploiting children for years.
28:25
Speaker 1: The police rated Boy's Farm on November tenth, nineteen seventy six,
28:28
Speaker 1: resulting in the arrest of Richard Vermile. It was revealed
28:31
Speaker 1: that the victims were given alcohols, shown pery, and then
28:34
Speaker 1: coerced into participating in homaged organs that were filmed. Now
28:40
Speaker 1: Francis Sheldon, the proprietor of North Fox Island, the Billionaire
28:44
Speaker 1: People who escaped on his plane Epstein of the nineteen seventies,
28:48
Speaker 1: was among the list of three hundred sponsors associated with
28:51
Speaker 1: Boys Farm. So in December of nineteen seventy six, the
28:55
Speaker 1: Michigan State Police issued two warrants for the arrest of
28:58
Speaker 1: Francis Sheldon for crimes involved of a ten year old
29:01
Speaker 1: boy and a fourteen year old boy. Francis Sheldon, however,
29:06
Speaker 1: was gone. It seems that he had been given a
29:08
Speaker 1: tip off, whether that was from his accomplish Gerald Richards,
29:12
Speaker 1: or from someone he knew in the police. So when
29:14
Speaker 1: authorities went to raid Francis Sheldon's offices, Francis had already
29:18
Speaker 1: been given the time, and Francis had emptied every single
29:21
Speaker 1: one of his filing cabinets. He had burned all of
29:23
Speaker 1: his paperwork, He had made sure there was no evidence
29:26
Speaker 1: to be found on North Fox Island itself. There was
29:29
Speaker 1: nothing left for Francis Sheldon, and like I said before,
29:32
Speaker 1: he took off on a plane and vanished into thin air.
29:36
Speaker 1: Later on he was found in Europe, but we'll talk
29:38
Speaker 1: about that in a second now. The North Fox Island
29:41
Speaker 1: Ring was organized as a boy's camp, so this is insane.
29:46
Speaker 1: Francis Sheldon, Gerald Richards the pass who started this whole thing,
29:51
Speaker 1: along with those other guys I just listed, They all
29:54
Speaker 1: conspired and basically created an organization that promised parents from
29:59
Speaker 1: local communities an opportunity to let their child explore some
30:04
Speaker 1: of Lake Michigan without having to take them there themselves.
30:07
Speaker 1: Frank Sheldon was really involved with the local community. People
30:11
Speaker 1: absolutely loved him. He would stop by people's houses for dinner.
30:16
Speaker 1: People absolutely trusted him with their kids, and Francis flew
30:21
Speaker 1: children frequently to and from North Fox Island as a
30:24
Speaker 1: vacation of sorts to this boys camp. But that's the
30:27
Speaker 1: disturbing part is once Francis Sheldon and Gerald Richards got
30:31
Speaker 1: these children all the way to this private island eighteen
30:34
Speaker 1: miles off the coast in the middle of Lake Michigan,
30:38
Speaker 1: there was nowhere they could go. There was no one
30:40
Speaker 1: they could hear their screams. And once they got these
30:42
Speaker 1: boys there, they brutally raised these boys. They sometimes gang
30:47
Speaker 1: d these boys, and they filmed and took photos of
30:51
Speaker 1: all of this to sell. So when you cut it
30:54
Speaker 1: down even further, how was North Fox Island getting this
30:58
Speaker 1: money and how is it being hushed hush, Well, it's
31:01
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. Francis Sheldon and Gerald Richards had organized North
31:05
Speaker 1: Fox Island in such a way that it actually qualified
31:09
Speaker 1: for government assistance. So they were taking in these boys
31:14
Speaker 1: that came from poorer homes and communities and providing them
31:17
Speaker 1: with these, you know, experiences and fun times during the summer,
31:20
Speaker 1: teaching them lessons about manhood and being good influences. At
31:24
Speaker 1: least that's what they were claiming to do, when in reality,
31:27
Speaker 1: they were taking these boys to the island to them
31:29
Speaker 1: and sell the videos of the ris across the world.
31:32
Speaker 1: And what's crazy is since their company was sponsored by
31:36
Speaker 1: the government, Gerald Richards and Francis Sheldon actually were paid
31:41
Speaker 1: by the government per child they brought to the island.
31:44
Speaker 1: I think the monetary value was fifteen hundred dollars or
31:47
Speaker 1: one two hundred and fifty dollars back then, but let's
31:50
Speaker 1: go with fifteen hundred in nineteen seventy. That's in nineteen
31:54
Speaker 1: seventies dollars. I don't know what that would be nowadays,
31:56
Speaker 1: but that means that Francis Sheldon and these other were
32:00
Speaker 1: literally getting paid by the US government to bring these
32:02
Speaker 1: children out there. They were paying them fifteen hundred dollars
32:05
Speaker 1: ahead to take care of these boys. So they were
32:08
Speaker 1: making money not only from the government, but they also
32:12
Speaker 1: had this thing called sponsorship. So if you wanted a
32:14
Speaker 1: sponsor the boys Camp and on the surface provide funding
32:19
Speaker 1: for new buildings on the island for more experiences for
32:22
Speaker 1: the children, you could become a sponsor of the Boys Camp.
32:25
Speaker 1: But what was really happening is these creepy men were
32:28
Speaker 1: sponsoring the boys Camp put on by Francis Sheldon and
32:31
Speaker 1: Gerald Richards, and in exchange for their monthly donation, they
32:35
Speaker 1: would be mailed in envelope in the mail containing child
32:40
Speaker 1: images that were filmed on North Fox Island, and sometimes
32:43
Speaker 1: they would get strips of film of child that was
32:46
Speaker 1: once again filmed at North Fox Island. So it's not
32:49
Speaker 1: like this was low key. There were hundreds thousands of
32:51
Speaker 1: people that were donating to this organization so that they
32:55
Speaker 1: could see receive child from the mail every month. There
32:58
Speaker 1: were hundreds of victims, children that were being ripped out
33:01
Speaker 1: on the island that I think we're afraid to come forward.
33:05
Speaker 1: I don't exactly know why. You know, the story never broke.
33:08
Speaker 1: I'm sure children were silenced and all of that, but
33:12
Speaker 1: this whole storm was brewing. So eventually, when the one
33:15
Speaker 1: child eventually reported that they had been on the island
33:19
Speaker 1: and people started talking about it, that's when the police
33:22
Speaker 1: knew they had to, you know, crack down on North
33:25
Speaker 1: Fox Island. Now this is I mean, there's a lot
33:28
Speaker 1: of this. This North Fox Island is tied into John
33:30
Speaker 1: David Norman, one of the biggest producers of child in
33:33
Speaker 1: American history. It's tied to Boy Scout Troop one point
33:37
Speaker 1: thirty seven in New Orleans, another child factory. It's tied
33:41
Speaker 1: to the Houston child warehouse where four tons of child
33:44
Speaker 1: were found in the nineteen seventies. And it's just disgusting
33:48
Speaker 1: how none of these people except Gerald Richards ever were
33:52
Speaker 1: punished for these crimes. Francis Sheldon got away scott free. Hundreds,
33:56
Speaker 1: the hundreds of that received this child from the mail,
33:59
Speaker 1: none of them were ever arrested. The people who were
34:03
Speaker 1: on the island running this stuff. Only Gerald Richards was arrested.
34:06
Speaker 1: I'm sure there were more people there than just him,
34:09
Speaker 1: and there were some videos apparently that depicted multiple men
34:12
Speaker 1: assaulting these boys. When this all was found out, Francis
34:15
Speaker 1: Sheldon left the country. He was able to escape, and
34:18
Speaker 1: in contrast to this, Gerald Richards did not possess the
34:21
Speaker 1: same level of wealth. He was the sole individual involved
34:25
Speaker 1: in the North Fox Island operation who was found guilty
34:27
Speaker 1: and sentenced to prison, even though he literally only served
34:32
Speaker 1: about two years. That's right for running an international child ring,
34:37
Speaker 1: victimizing hundreds of children, for assaulting kids himself a little
34:43
Speaker 1: over two years in prison. This guy got How fed
34:46
Speaker 1: up is that? And although Gerald Richards was released from
34:50
Speaker 1: prison in nineteen eighty, he was re arrested in nineteen
34:53
Speaker 1: eighty eight. Eight years later by postal inspectors on charges
34:57
Speaker 1: related to child tracking. So he couldn't stop this. Gerald
35:02
Speaker 1: Richards guy was busted with one of the biggest child
35:05
Speaker 1: busts of all time. He spoke in front of the
35:08
Speaker 1: US government at Senate hearings, and then he got out
35:11
Speaker 1: and did it again, and eventually Gerald Richards killed himself
35:16
Speaker 1: at the age of forty nine in nineteen ninety six,
35:20
Speaker 1: so he's dead now. At the formation of all this,
35:24
Speaker 1: Gerald Richards initially encountered Francis Sheldon through a publication known
35:28
Speaker 1: as Better Life Magazine, a magazine which catered to men
35:32
Speaker 1: with an interest in young boys. This magazine used a
35:35
Speaker 1: coded language to let people know what they were really
35:38
Speaker 1: talking about. Now. According to Michael Farquhar, a victim who
35:42
Speaker 1: was as a child during that time period, there were lawyers,
35:46
Speaker 1: doctors and politicians present on North Fox Island. You see,
35:51
Speaker 1: this wasn't just a child production island. This was an
35:55
Speaker 1: island where rich people could pay Francis Sheldon, pay anybody
35:59
Speaker 1: and fly out to a child. Obviously, this account brings
36:03
Speaker 1: to mind the story of Jeffrey Epstein and his association
36:06
Speaker 1: with underaged children, as well as his connections to wealth
36:10
Speaker 1: and power the millionaires that we're using Epstein to procure
36:14
Speaker 1: children for them. And yeah, this raises a lot of
36:17
Speaker 1: questions about whether this sort of stuff is still happening today.
36:21
Speaker 1: I have an easy answer for you. Yes, yes, it
36:26
Speaker 1: does happen. It's happening right now while I'm recording this.
36:29
Speaker 1: It's happening while you're watching this a day, two weeks
36:33
Speaker 1: years later, it's happening. And we also have to look
36:35
Speaker 1: at the case of Johnny Gosh. Now we're gonna be
36:38
Speaker 1: doing a full Johnny Gosh episode soon. But Johnny Gosh
36:42
Speaker 1: was a twelve year old paper boy who went missing
36:44
Speaker 1: from Des Moines, Iowa. Gosh was one of the first
36:46
Speaker 1: missing children featured on milk cartons as a part of
36:49
Speaker 1: a campaign. Paul Banassi, a young teenager at the time
36:52
Speaker 1: of Johnny's abduction, claimed his involvement in a network by
36:56
Speaker 1: assuming the role of lure to bring in youthful victims.
36:59
Speaker 1: So there are rings and networks everywhere, and Paul MNAs
37:03
Speaker 1: sie all of that we're gonna be talking about. There's
37:05
Speaker 1: a big project that I am involved with coming soon,
37:09
Speaker 1: but we're not gonna get too much into that now.
37:11
Speaker 1: But these rings in the nineteen seventies were happening everywhere,
37:15
Speaker 1: and no one was ever brought to justice for them.
37:18
Speaker 1: We need to find these people and skewer them to
37:22
Speaker 1: the fullest extent of the law. In my opinion, nowadays,
37:25
Speaker 1: a lot of them are still alive. One undeniable fact
37:28
Speaker 1: is that there is mitochondrial DNA evidence linking Christopher Bush
37:32
Speaker 1: and Gregory Green to a victim of the Oakland County
37:34
Speaker 1: child killer through a connection to one of Chris and
37:37
Speaker 1: Greg's victims, a man named Vince Gunnals who turned into
37:41
Speaker 1: a path himself. Now. Vince Gunnals was assaulted by Christopher
37:45
Speaker 1: Bush and Gregory Green during the mid nineteen seventies when
37:48
Speaker 1: he was still a young teenager. However, he eventually became
37:51
Speaker 1: a willing participant. Now, Vince Gunnald's mitochondrial DNA was found
37:56
Speaker 1: on Christine Maheilich. Speculation suggests that Vince Gunnell's IT may
38:00
Speaker 1: have been used as a bait to lure other victims
38:02
Speaker 1: towards Christopher Bush and Gregory Green due to him being
38:06
Speaker 1: young and somewhat attractive at the time. Now, while he
38:09
Speaker 1: was incarcerated for crimes against children, Vince Gunnealds made an
38:13
Speaker 1: intriguing statement over the phone to his sister Karen Zaspill,
38:16
Speaker 1: saying I wasn't there when it happened, implying possible involvement. Now.
38:21
Speaker 1: Vince Gunnells was also acquainted with Christopher Bush's nephews, Scott
38:25
Speaker 1: and Brent Bush, who were also victims of abuse by
38:28
Speaker 1: Christopher and Gregory. Detective Williams initiated an interview with Brent
38:32
Speaker 1: Bush in February of two thousand and eight, during which
38:34
Speaker 1: Brent immediately inquired if it pertained to Gregory Green. Upon
38:38
Speaker 1: confirmation that the investigation covered both Gregory and his uncle Christopher,
38:42
Speaker 1: Brent disclosed that both individuals engaged in with him and
38:46
Speaker 1: coerced him into performing acts with other boys while they
38:50
Speaker 1: took photographs. Brent Bush stated that his uncle's on November twentieth,
38:55
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, coincided with the end of the moon.
38:58
Speaker 1: It certainly stopped the Oakland County child killing crimes. So
39:02
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush and Gregory Green seem like extremely likely suspects.
39:07
Speaker 1: I mean, there have been admissions, there have been other
39:10
Speaker 1: people that imply to their involvement. There are prior crimes
39:13
Speaker 1: against children. There are patterns of behavior, locations, knowledge that
39:18
Speaker 1: they knew. There's so much evidence you'd think Christopher Bush
39:21
Speaker 1: would go down for this, right, or at least be arrested. Well.
39:26
Speaker 1: November twentieth, nineteen seventy eight, Christopher Bush commits nine. That's right,
39:34
Speaker 1: before any resolution can be found in this case, Christopher Bush,
39:38
Speaker 1: according to police, takes his own life. Now, it should
39:42
Speaker 1: be stated that the Oakland County child killing crimes and
39:46
Speaker 1: the minds of children like Brent Bush all stopped after
39:49
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush killed himself. You know, I don't think he
39:53
Speaker 1: killed himself, So from now on, I'm just gonna refer
39:55
Speaker 1: to it as what it is, murdered. After Christopher Bush
39:59
Speaker 1: was murdered, he was taken out to prevent him from
40:02
Speaker 1: giving up more people. Now, let's go through the suspicious
40:05
Speaker 1: things that surround Christopher's death. Firstly, Chris Bush appeared to
40:09
Speaker 1: be sleeping at the time that he died, which is
40:13
Speaker 1: pretty odd for I don't know who kills himself in
40:16
Speaker 1: their sleep. Additionally, the manner in which Christopher was shot
40:19
Speaker 1: with a rifle in the forehead differed from typicals where
40:23
Speaker 1: victims shoot themselves in the mouth. Like I just said,
40:25
Speaker 1: it's just weird to think that he would take a rifle,
40:28
Speaker 1: a rifle, keep in mind, and shoot himself directly in
40:31
Speaker 1: the forehead. Moreover, there was no evidence of gunshot residue
40:35
Speaker 1: on Chris Bush's hands, fingers, or arms, and there was
40:39
Speaker 1: no blood splatter none. Now keep that in mind for
40:44
Speaker 1: a guy that shot himself. There's no gunshot residue anywhere
40:49
Speaker 1: on his body, even though he took the gun and
40:52
Speaker 1: shot himself, and there's no blood. There's no blood anywhere
40:57
Speaker 1: in the room. You can even go google crime scene
40:59
Speaker 1: photos right now. There is no blood in the room,
41:02
Speaker 1: implying he shot himself in the head blew the back
41:05
Speaker 1: of his head off. That would be an extremely gruesome
41:08
Speaker 1: and bloody scene, and Christopher, if he really did kill himself,
41:12
Speaker 1: wouldn't be around to clean it up. Another peculiar aspect
41:15
Speaker 1: was the presence of ropes on the floor, which possibly
41:18
Speaker 1: suggested an attempt to link Christopher Bush to the Oakland
41:22
Speaker 1: County child killing crimes. Furthermore, there's a disturbing painting and
41:27
Speaker 1: sketched drawing depicting a screaming boy that resembled Mark Stebbens
41:32
Speaker 1: or victim number one, hung up on the wall, so
41:35
Speaker 1: there were ropes found in the room. There was a
41:38
Speaker 1: hand drawn picture of a screaming child hanging on Christopher
41:41
Speaker 1: Bush's wall. No blood at the crime scene, and strangely,
41:46
Speaker 1: both the ropes and the drawing went missing, along with
41:50
Speaker 1: other evidence related to the case. Some of it was
41:52
Speaker 1: destroyed in a flood at the FBI office, which that's
41:56
Speaker 1: just crazy. And yes, let's say someone was trying to
42:01
Speaker 1: frame Christopher Bush as the killer, even though I think
42:04
Speaker 1: he probably did kill somebody. I know he definitely killed
42:08
Speaker 1: one victim. It's a perfect way to knock him off.
42:12
Speaker 1: You put ropes in the room, you put a picture
42:13
Speaker 1: of a screaming child. Years later, everyone's gonna think it
42:16
Speaker 1: was Christopher Bush, and yet still not even the police
42:19
Speaker 1: confirmed that it was Christopher Bush. So it's like, what
42:22
Speaker 1: the hell was I don't know. It's also worth noting
42:24
Speaker 1: that Christopher Bush lived within a five mile radius of
42:27
Speaker 1: each victim. There were also four bullet casings found at
42:32
Speaker 1: the crime scene, so Christopher's gun was fired four times,
42:36
Speaker 1: even though he was shot in the head once. Now,
42:38
Speaker 1: isn't that really strange. It's almost like Christopher was struggling
42:42
Speaker 1: and they missed him a couple times, and then eventually
42:45
Speaker 1: we're able to shoot him in the head. Another curious
42:47
Speaker 1: item of concern is Richard McNamee from Bloomfield Police Department,
42:51
Speaker 1: the officer who responded to the Christopher Side scene, who
42:55
Speaker 1: shortly afterwards faced criminal conduct charges, including himself. So the
43:02
Speaker 1: first responding officer to the scene of Christopher Bush's ended
43:06
Speaker 1: up being a himself, and he killed himself shortly afterwards too.
43:11
Speaker 1: I think he ended up killing himself just a little
43:13
Speaker 1: bit after Christopher Bush did a few days, but I
43:16
Speaker 1: could be wrong on that. So yeah, the first responding
43:18
Speaker 1: officer was another suspicious incident involved officer, Christopher Flynn, who
43:24
Speaker 1: allegedly shot himself twice in the chest shortly before Christopher Bush.
43:29
Speaker 1: In the book The kill Jar by Jay Ruben Appleman,
43:31
Speaker 1: Christopher Flynn is portrayed as a concerned father who received
43:35
Speaker 1: information from a young boy named Chris Sideki claiming to
43:38
Speaker 1: have witnessed a police officer escorting victim number three into
43:42
Speaker 1: his car. After Flynn was informed of this account, he
43:46
Speaker 1: died days later. However, in other narratives about the Oakland
43:49
Speaker 1: County child killings case, Christopher Flynn is painted as a
43:53
Speaker 1: potential suspect himself, So basically with Christopher Flynn, a individual
43:59
Speaker 1: told Christopher Flynn, who was a police officer, that he
44:03
Speaker 1: had witnessed one of the victims being led not by
44:06
Speaker 1: one of the suspects, but he saw this victim being
44:09
Speaker 1: abducted by a police officer the police told authorities what
44:12
Speaker 1: he saw that the police were involved with the kidnapping.
44:15
Speaker 1: Shortly afterwards, Christopher Flynn, the first guy he told about it,
44:18
Speaker 1: shot himself twice in the chest. Just think of that sentence.
44:23
Speaker 1: And then in this weird pattern, all of the people
44:26
Speaker 1: that Chris sideki this person who saw the policeman with
44:30
Speaker 1: the victim. Every time he would tell somebody the story,
44:32
Speaker 1: they would die. There were car accidents. The police officers,
44:37
Speaker 1: including the guy he claimed to have seen, actually showed
44:40
Speaker 1: up to Chris's house when he was young and allegedly
44:43
Speaker 1: beat the shit out of him, breaking bones, threatening him
44:46
Speaker 1: to stay silent. If when he saw is real, then
44:49
Speaker 1: that once again changes this entire story and shows that
44:51
Speaker 1: the police were involved in this entire thing. The Oakland
44:54
Speaker 1: County Child Killer Task Force disbanded in December of nineteen
44:58
Speaker 1: seventy eight, just one month after Chris Bush's, which suggests
45:02
Speaker 1: that they believed further investigation was unnecessary. Tim Number was
45:06
Speaker 1: a childhood friend of Timothy King, one of the victims.
45:09
Speaker 1: When Tim Number was in his twenties, he worked at
45:12
Speaker 1: a clothing store in the evenings. During this time, he
45:15
Speaker 1: had a conversation with a man who claimed to be
45:17
Speaker 1: a retired detective. Curious about the detective's background, Number asked
45:21
Speaker 1: him about any famous cases he had worked on. To
45:23
Speaker 1: Number surprise, the retired detective mentioned the Oakland County child killings.
45:28
Speaker 1: Number expressed disappointment that the case remained unsolved, and in response,
45:32
Speaker 1: the detective cryptically stated, it's been taken care of. This
45:36
Speaker 1: detective was identified as Jack Calbfleisch and has confirmed this conversation. Now,
45:42
Speaker 1: given the multitude of suspects associated with this case, it
45:45
Speaker 1: is challenging to keep track of them all. It appears
45:48
Speaker 1: highly probable that multiple individuals were involved in the Oakland
45:51
Speaker 1: County child killer crimes a collective effort, rather than the
45:55
Speaker 1: work of one or two people a team killing. Another
45:59
Speaker 1: notable suspect is Arch Sloan, who is currently serving prison
46:02
Speaker 1: time for raping a ten year old boy. At one point,
46:05
Speaker 1: Arch Sloan worked as a driver for a book mobile unit,
46:08
Speaker 1: a mobile library, delivering books to underprivileged children. However, he
46:12
Speaker 1: exploited this position to victimize six young boys aged between
46:16
Speaker 1: eleven and fourteen from nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy one. Now,
46:20
Speaker 1: Arch Sloane received a sentence of five to ten years
46:23
Speaker 1: in prison, but was released early to work at a
46:25
Speaker 1: service station where he served as a mechanic and tow
46:28
Speaker 1: truck driver, occasionally collaborating with the police. On the night
46:32
Speaker 1: of Mark Stebbins's death or victim number one, Arch Sloan's
46:35
Speaker 1: parole officer saw news coverage and immediately thought of him
46:38
Speaker 1: as a possible suspect. The parole officer promptly contacted Southfield
46:42
Speaker 1: Police and requested the search Sloan's nineteen sixty six Pontiac Bonneville.
46:46
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that this occurred in nineteen seventy six,
46:49
Speaker 1: when DNA analysis was not yet employed by crime Lapse. However,
46:53
Speaker 1: in twenty ten, DNA obtained from a mysterious hare found
46:57
Speaker 1: in Arch Sloan's car was matched to heirs found on
47:00
Speaker 1: Mark Stebbens and Timothy King's genitals. Now, this phantom hare
47:04
Speaker 1: did not belong to Arch Sloane, leaving the identity of
47:07
Speaker 1: the hair unknown. But this is a direct connection between
47:10
Speaker 1: Arch Sloane and two of the victims through DNA. This
47:14
Speaker 1: was a huge break in the case. Now. In the
47:16
Speaker 1: documentary Children of the Snow, released in twenty nineteen, retired
47:20
Speaker 1: Michigan State Police detective David Robertson, whose father led the
47:24
Speaker 1: original Oakland County child killing task Force in the nineteen seventies,
47:28
Speaker 1: discussed the DNA evidence reviewed in twenty ten. Robertson mentioned
47:33
Speaker 1: confronting Arch Sloan about his Bonneville his car, to which
47:37
Speaker 1: Arch claimed it had been sold to a Michigan State
47:39
Speaker 1: Police lieutenant's son. Notably, the DNA found on Victim number
47:44
Speaker 1: three's jacket was a mitochondrial match to that of someone
47:47
Speaker 1: related to law enforcement. When pressed further about excluding the
47:50
Speaker 1: state policeman's son as a suspect, Robertson became evasive. Detective Williams,
47:56
Speaker 1: when confronted with this information, acknowledged that the car had
47:59
Speaker 1: indeed belonged to a trooper's son, but maintained that there
48:02
Speaker 1: could be no possible link to victim number three. This
48:04
Speaker 1: response raises eyebrows as Detective Williams appeared dedicated to solving
48:08
Speaker 1: this case, but seemed protective when suspicions shifted towards someone
48:12
Speaker 1: within law enforcement. It's highly probable that one of the
48:15
Speaker 1: suspects involved in the case has ties to the police,
48:18
Speaker 1: particularly since the witness, Chris Sideki, claims he saw Christine
48:22
Speaker 1: Mahailich get into a car with a police officer in
48:24
Speaker 1: full uniform at the parking lot of the seven to
48:27
Speaker 1: eleven and the two drove away before later on she
48:30
Speaker 1: was found abducted and murdered. Another person of interest, John Crosby,
48:35
Speaker 1: who was associated with Arch Sloan, came under police scrutiny
48:38
Speaker 1: due to his connection with the pon named William Yarborough.
48:41
Speaker 1: Adding another layer to the story, Helen Dagner, who was
48:44
Speaker 1: married to a police officer that committed side four years
48:47
Speaker 1: before Christopher Bush's suicide, claimed to have met a man
48:50
Speaker 1: named John Hastings in nineteen ninety one who confessed to
48:54
Speaker 1: being the Oakland County child killer. However, when questioned by
48:57
Speaker 1: the police about his interactions with Dagner, John Hastings claimed
49:00
Speaker 1: he was providing false information. He said he was just
49:03
Speaker 1: filling Dagner with what she wanted to hear. John Hastings,
49:06
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, was actually a person of interest in the
49:10
Speaker 1: original Oakland County child killing investigation, so this was a
49:14
Speaker 1: big lead for police. Helen Dagner sadly has since passed
49:18
Speaker 1: away and her website is no longer active. Despite being
49:21
Speaker 1: seen as an eccentric individual during her lifetime, she was
49:24
Speaker 1: one of the first advocates for justice for the Oakland
49:26
Speaker 1: County child killing victims on the internet. Through Dagner, Kathy King,
49:31
Speaker 1: the sister of Timothy King or victim number four, became
49:34
Speaker 1: involved and continues to maintain a blog seeking justice for
49:37
Speaker 1: her brother. Interestingly, John Hastings was also wealthy and around
49:41
Speaker 1: the same age as Christopher Bush, living just blocks away
49:45
Speaker 1: from each other now. According to Kathy King's account, when
49:48
Speaker 1: she asked Helen Dagner about Christopher Bush, Dagner mentioned that
49:51
Speaker 1: Hastings had a friend who died by suide on November twentieth,
49:55
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight. This date stood out because her own
49:58
Speaker 1: husband took his life on that day in nineteen eighty four,
50:01
Speaker 1: and November twentieth, nineteen seventy eight was the day Christopher
50:04
Speaker 1: Bush killed himself, so that was a direct link between
50:07
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush and John Hastings this suspect. Another suspect worth
50:11
Speaker 1: noting is bad Eyed Bob Moore. Going back to the
50:13
Speaker 1: beginning of the story, it was at Bob Moore's place
50:16
Speaker 1: when Ted lamberghin you remember he was a suspect and
50:18
Speaker 1: it as well, allegedly got out and pointed to a
50:22
Speaker 1: picture of a naked Timmy King, one of the victims
50:25
Speaker 1: of Oakland County child killer. Bob Moore was also a
50:28
Speaker 1: known child and pale who owned a bike shop in
50:31
Speaker 1: a notorious part of Detroit at the time called the
50:33
Speaker 1: Cast Corridor. Now, the Cast Corridor was called a heaven
50:37
Speaker 1: for pass because the specific stretch of road in Detroit
50:40
Speaker 1: there were multiple call rings that were running, there were
50:43
Speaker 1: child studios operating out of there. There were miners that
50:47
Speaker 1: would prest themselves out and walk the streets. So if
50:50
Speaker 1: you were a pass in Detroit, Cast Corridor was the
50:53
Speaker 1: place for you. And Bad Eyed Bob Moore ran a
50:56
Speaker 1: child production studio out of the basement of his bike
51:00
Speaker 1: and he also allegedly hosted parties at his house. Now
51:03
Speaker 1: it should also be noted that Bob Moore has been
51:05
Speaker 1: connected to Francis Sheldon of the North Fox Island ring,
51:10
Speaker 1: along with all these other players, all these people that
51:12
Speaker 1: were listing out, Ted Lamborghin, Bob Moore, Gerald Richards, Francis Sheldon,
51:18
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush, They're all interconnected. They all ran in the
51:21
Speaker 1: same circles, so when you talk about one, you're really
51:24
Speaker 1: talking about everybody. And to speak of the devil. There's
51:27
Speaker 1: also speculation regarding John McKinney, an art dealer whose death
51:31
Speaker 1: may be connected to this case. John McKinney was an
51:34
Speaker 1: art dealer in the Cast Corridor. He dealt with Bob Moore,
51:37
Speaker 1: he was a He allegedly had some photographs possibly a victims.
51:42
Speaker 1: There's a lot behind his story that we could get into,
51:44
Speaker 1: but this episode's already going really long. But John McKinney
51:49
Speaker 1: was murdered during in the midst of this Oakland County
51:52
Speaker 1: child killing investigation. So if these people really were whacking
51:56
Speaker 1: people who were going to expose the truth, they killed
51:59
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush, they killed this guy, John McKinney, They murdered
52:02
Speaker 1: police officers. Who knows why and who they were protecting.
52:06
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a whole other thing we could get
52:08
Speaker 1: into that. The book The kill Jar covers where these
52:11
Speaker 1: people are talking about how their parents, their fathers who
52:14
Speaker 1: were involved at General Motors back in the nineteen seventies,
52:18
Speaker 1: they were all that were pimping out children and there
52:22
Speaker 1: were like there was a network of babysitters that would
52:25
Speaker 1: prepare these children for encounters and child shoots, and that
52:30
Speaker 1: allegedly it was all these higher up executives at General
52:33
Speaker 1: Motors and the other automotive companies that passed these children
52:36
Speaker 1: around like toys. There's letters from victims that you can
52:40
Speaker 1: read in the book. That's crazy, but I mean, one
52:42
Speaker 1: theory is that these Oakland County child killing victims could
52:45
Speaker 1: be connected to that, and these high powered, really rich
52:48
Speaker 1: executives had the money to just have everybody whacked, including
52:51
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush, Christopher Bush's father. Interestingly, after Chris was murdered,
52:56
Speaker 1: Christopher's father had his body cremated, so to this day
53:00
Speaker 1: we can't get any DNA from Christopher's body because he's
53:04
Speaker 1: just ashes. Now. I think that was definitely a strategic ploy.
53:08
Speaker 1: Christopher Bush's dad also burned all the documents relating to
53:11
Speaker 1: his family, so he basically he burned all their Social
53:13
Speaker 1: Security cards, their birth certificates, really strange stuff and Christopher's
53:19
Speaker 1: dad has been there have been allegations against him by
53:22
Speaker 1: multiple victims that he was one of the heads of
53:24
Speaker 1: this General Motors ring. So it's crazy. Once he looked
53:28
Speaker 1: back into all of this, there were all these rings
53:30
Speaker 1: and Christopher Bush was linked to Francis Sheldon and North
53:34
Speaker 1: Fox Island and that cabin where he was seen with
53:37
Speaker 1: one of the victims was in close proximity to the
53:39
Speaker 1: airports where Francis Sheldon would take off from. There are
53:42
Speaker 1: also reports that Francis Sheldon's following was filming snuff films
53:47
Speaker 1: and that maybe the murders of these children were funded
53:52
Speaker 1: at least one of them. It's possible that this murder
53:54
Speaker 1: was funded by Francis Sheldon so that it could be filmed.
53:59
Speaker 1: All these murders could have been filmed. I mean, when
54:01
Speaker 1: you run around in these networks, I'd imagine that movies
54:04
Speaker 1: like snuff films after you, you know, a child, that
54:08
Speaker 1: those would have a very high monetary value. There's also
54:12
Speaker 1: theories that these kids were flown out to North Fox
54:14
Speaker 1: Island in the time that they were missing, because they
54:16
Speaker 1: were gone for a pretty long time. Maybe they were there.
54:19
Speaker 1: Maybe these rips were works that went wrong and these
54:22
Speaker 1: children died, or maybe there were billionaires that were paying
54:25
Speaker 1: Francis Sheldon. And I'm not even talking about the victims
54:28
Speaker 1: in the Oakland County child killings. Now we're talking about
54:30
Speaker 1: all the victims because those dates don't really match up.
54:33
Speaker 1: But people could have been paying Francis to fly these
54:35
Speaker 1: kids out from underprivileged communities so that they could and
54:39
Speaker 1: kill them on camera. I mean, the FBI itself has
54:42
Speaker 1: never done a thorough search of North Fox Island. The
54:44
Speaker 1: police haven't done a thorough search. They've never done ground
54:47
Speaker 1: penetrating radar out there, they've never brought body sniffing dogs,
54:51
Speaker 1: they've never done anything. So who knows there could be
54:56
Speaker 1: mass graves of children on North Fox Island. It's crazy
55:00
Speaker 1: that there's I mean, that whole thing deserves a second podcast.
55:03
Speaker 1: But all of this too, I hope this has made sense.
55:07
Speaker 1: And so in conclusion, all this raises concerns for me
55:10
Speaker 1: about how there were numerous pals and pell rings operating
55:14
Speaker 1: in the similar same area at the same time. Similar
55:17
Speaker 1: cases involving networks, such as the Johnny Gosh case, Jeffrey Epstein,
55:21
Speaker 1: the Franklin cover up, have been coming to light suggesting
55:24
Speaker 1: the possibility of an ongoing mega network. To this day,
55:28
Speaker 1: the question remains what actions can be taken to address
55:31
Speaker 1: this issue. I don't really know. So that's the end
55:35
Speaker 1: of my script. That was a really long one. We
55:39
Speaker 1: could have gone triple that with all this, but wow,
55:43
Speaker 1: I mean, to this day, nobody ever convicted for a
55:47
Speaker 1: single one of the Oakland County child killings North Fox Island. Personally,
55:53
Speaker 1: I think Christopher Bush, Gregory Green definitely guilty. But I
55:57
Speaker 1: have a feeling that all these men as disturbing as
55:59
Speaker 1: a sound. I feel like they're all guilty in their
56:01
Speaker 1: own way. I feel like these kids were being abducted,
56:05
Speaker 1: they were then being passed around salted, they were being
56:09
Speaker 1: filmed while these happened. These films were being sold. Even
56:13
Speaker 1: if it didn't happen on North Fox Island, they were
56:15
Speaker 1: probably videotaped being rich. Because they're dealing with these sorts
56:19
Speaker 1: of people like Christopher Bush possibly videotaped being murdered. Really,
56:23
Speaker 1: who knows, who knows how deep all this goes, But
56:25
Speaker 1: the justice in this case doesn't exist, And hopefully one
56:28
Speaker 1: day the police departments will have the balls to look
56:31
Speaker 1: into the people that need to be looked into. Because
56:34
Speaker 1: it's all spelled out right there. If you listen to
56:35
Speaker 1: this podcast, I'm pretty sure you're going to be thinking
56:38
Speaker 1: the same thing I'm thinking. Christopher Bush, Gregory Green definitely
56:42
Speaker 1: in on it. They most likely abducted these kids. They
56:46
Speaker 1: were taken to different places, pimped out, repeatedly, murdered, filmed.
56:53
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much more to it. Even with
56:54
Speaker 1: Francis Sheldon and the North Fox Island powering, there was
56:58
Speaker 1: allegedly a doctor's office in a nearby community on the
57:01
Speaker 1: shore of the lake where multiple victims claim they saw
57:05
Speaker 1: Francis Sheldon and other men assaulting children and then murdering
57:10
Speaker 1: them in this doctor's office and filming all of it.
57:12
Speaker 1: So like this shit was happening all over the state
57:15
Speaker 1: of Michigan, and with the police officers being involved in
57:19
Speaker 1: the North Fox cover up with all of these people,
57:21
Speaker 1: I mean, the files on Christopher Bush and North Fox
57:24
Speaker 1: Island were lost in a flood at the FPI headquarters.
57:29
Speaker 1: Does that tell you that's crazy shit? Oh? Yeah, two
57:33
Speaker 1: of the most important unsolved cases of all time, with
57:36
Speaker 1: hundreds of victims and dozens of suspects. We lost all
57:40
Speaker 1: of it before we could convict anybody. But yeah, anyways,
57:45
Speaker 1: thank you guys for watching. I really hope you enjoyed
57:47
Speaker 1: today's video slash podcast. Be sure to follow the show
57:51
Speaker 1: on YouTube if you don't already subscribe. Shout out to
57:55
Speaker 1: everybody watching on YouTube. Shout out to everybody listening if
57:58
Speaker 1: you want to watch that document that I produced about
58:01
Speaker 1: this whole case. We got some insane stuff and we
58:04
Speaker 1: visited North Fox Island. It was the hardest location I've
58:06
Speaker 1: ever tried to film, but that is on my YouTube
58:09
Speaker 1: channel now, the Paranormal Files. Thank you guys. Stay safe
58:13
Speaker 1: out there, and let me know your theories. If you're
58:16
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast on some sort of a streaming platform,
58:18
Speaker 1: head over to YouTube and type out your theories in
58:20
Speaker 1: the comments because I want to know what you guys
58:22
Speaker 1: think happened here. Let's have a discussion in the comments section.
58:26
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm gonna get off here. Thank you guys
58:29
Speaker 1: so much, and I'll catch you on the next one.