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(British) Boxing Podcast: Joshua Buatsi vs. Willy Hutchinson II Preview · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's up everybody, it's your good friend Lukie and I am on with one of my,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: obviously Dakota is my dude, but when Tokers comes on,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: we go crazy because this is someone that keeps up even more with boxing than I do.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tokers, how are we living?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I am, I am good.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am up and down with boxing like everyone else is at the moment, but yeah,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: life's okay man, life's okay.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now we're back to what we need to do, talking boxing.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you're like,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm indifferent about boxing and we're going to do an hour chat
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: on obscure boxing matches.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love the sickness of both of us.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Joshua Bawatsi versus Willie Hutchinson.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to let you go through the stories of this fight and I want you to kind
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: of give me your excitement level.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, right?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, so I think the Watsi is probably a confusing one.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: So he comes out of the Brazil Rio Olympics in 2016.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody in Britain's going crazy because they think, oh, my God, there was,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: like, Marvin Hagler comparisons.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, everyone thinks this guy is just going to be incredible.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Science of Matchroom.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Goes through the levels a bit, wins a British title, like a normal prospect
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: does in the UK.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Then it all just sort of stops.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: He has issues.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: He turned down Bivol.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone pretty much acknowledges that at this point.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: He turned down that fight.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Goes into this sort of businessman mode.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Pulls out of his John Pascal fight for an IBF Eliminator because it was going to
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: an old Frank Warren show and that was bad for business.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Then signs with Ben Shalom, leaves Eddie Hearn.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: That had a massive lawsuit around it and there was sort of all these court hearings over that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's never really kicked on.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then he sort of, Riyad comes around, Riyad's season, and you think, yeah,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to push on now.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Gets the Woody Hutchinson fight for an interim title.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wins it on the Joshua against Duvall, on the guard.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then loses to Cameron Smith, and it's like he hasn't really done much since.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of like, the sort of feeling with him from a lot of people
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: in the UK is like, it sort of passed him by it.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because the Zach Parker fight, you look terrible.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, regardless if you thought you won or not. I didn't.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Parker won that fight.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you look terrible in it, regardless of how you scored it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, has it just passed him by?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Has he missed the boat a bit?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because there was a time and a place where he was brilliant.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure he is anymore.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think he's going to be.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And with Woody Hutchinson as well, it's like he came up, he won Youth Gold in 2016,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was the same year.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: A Youth Gold medal at the Worlds.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Signs with Shreddy Finkel, signs with David Haye back in the day, and that was a thing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Goes over to Frank Warren, gets fast-tracked to a British title shot
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: at a super middleweight, gets knocked out by Lennox Clarke in a fight
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: that he shouldn't have taken.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the wrong way.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: It had never really made 168 properly.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just totally the wrong way round for that fight.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Gets knocked down in that fight by Lennart's Clark.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Lennart's Clark is a rabbit hole that I'm not going to go down,
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: but you can do your own research if you want to on Lennart's Clark.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I hope he's doing all right.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: He bounces back on the cards.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's written him off.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've got heavyweight now.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Leaves the Ingle gym and sort of comes up on the outside
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: and then beats Craig Richards in Riyadh on the 5v5.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of like everyone's sort of thinking, oh, he can do a bit, you know.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Loses to Boatze and then sort of bounces back with her.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Since that Boatze fight against Hutchinson, Hutchinson's looked better than Boatze,
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fair to say. He's at a lower level.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's beaten Mark Jeffers and he beat Ezra Taylor.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's looked better.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really intriguing because Hutchinson's very, very young.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: He turned pro 18 and he's sort of, I think he's only 28, 29 at this point.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas Boazzi's a few years older.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think there's a lot of intrigue.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of sort of, will it be like the first fight or was the first fight
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: a prime Boazzi against the sort of young,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: pre -Prime Hutchinson and now it's sort of a prime Hutchinson
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: against the past Prime Boatsy.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the feeling in the UK, I think.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people are picking Hutchinson to win the fight.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like...
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot to say but I'm going to try to be a good host and lead you
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: and then do my thing.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I will never get over the Boatsi first.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was the first time I watched the Olympic streaming
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: and like 85% of the chat was Boatsi.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: 10% of the chant was Michael Conlon.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember people made fun of me for being high on Shakur Stevenson
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: because Michael Conlon had a pro style.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that was a thing.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: People said he had a pro style, which to me still don't see it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I wish I had the receipts on that where people said Michael Conlon,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: much more of a pro style, so he might not get the nods,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: which kind of tells you maybe don't listen to people
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: on the internet just saying stuff all the time.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I say that to say, Buwazi was one of the biggest people in that Olympics.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten to know Buwazi a tiny bit.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in the gym with him because he trains by me in the Bay Area.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing that stands out to me,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm curious to get your thoughts on this because this is what I saw
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: in the Parker fight.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: His favorite fighter is Joe Frazier,
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: which kind of shocked me because I wouldn't think of him as a Joe Frazier fan.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt like in some of these fights where he doesn't look good,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: he's like channeling his inner Joe Frazier.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe Joe Frazier isn't the fighter he should be trying to resemble.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm throwing a question to you.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are some of these flat performances him kind of trying to carry out some
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: of his favorite fighter in fights?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Parker fight to me felt like he was trying to do the Frazier experience.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he had another guy that was like, let me out point you.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like a weird thing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is he declining? Yeah.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there something I'm not picking up on?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because, I mean, I think that first we need to start with Boatze.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think everyone, or maybe you think differently,
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think Boatze had more excitement and people thought maybe he had more potential.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: But man, you laid it perfectly.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's been very slow.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious to get your thoughts on the Frazier comparison
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: because that's something he shared with me.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you could be right, though.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think he...
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest sort of thing with Barazzi is, this sounds weird,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it all comes down to his feet,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: and I think he thinks his feet are quicker than they are.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've always had this thing with him, he thinks his feet are quick when they're not,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: and he fights like he's got quick feet, but he doesn't.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: But it's weird, his whole sort of,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: His whole sort of thing has been weird.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: The way he speaks, the way he is.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like he wants to be a boxer, but he doesn't want to be a boxer.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all this business stuff.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: But he also takes a lot of fights.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all confusing.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't really know.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: He disappears.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: He notoriously sort of hates doing the promotion for fights.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: He sort of disappears out to California to train and then comes back.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's notoriously quite quiet.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's all business for him, I think.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think...
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think the Hutchinson first fight really sums up his career.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, he had a higher ceiling than Hutchinson, I think.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in that first Hutchinson fight, it was sort of, you know...
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: He looked amazing, dropped him, looked like, oh my God,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: this guy's going to breeze a world title.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's another round where he hasn't progressed the fight and Hutchinson's back in it.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Then another round, and then you're waiting for him to go again, and he does it again.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't go through the gears, and he waits a couple of rounds,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: waits a couple of rounds, drops him again.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And actually round by round, that first fight wasn't that far apart.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think I scored it 7-5 to the right.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there was like two or three knockdowns.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So Bawachi won it clear, but in terms of round one, Harkinson had success.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that sort of sums up his career.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yes, his flashes are brilliant, but never really fulfills it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so strange, because he's really, really good.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: He was really, really good as an amateur.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was really, really good as a sort of up-and-coming pro, but I don't know what happened.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I just get the sense that he's missed the boat.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know about you, Lukie, but there's a thing with fighters.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think Keyshawn Davis is maybe an example of this at the moment.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You have a certain window to take these big fights and propel yourself up to a level.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not taking them and you're negotiating this and turning down that,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes, quite a lot of the time, it sort of passes you by.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that might have happened to Brassie here.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you this about Buwazi too.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: You made me think of this.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I've interviewed him, he's one of the only boxers,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe this is a European thing, who meets me at coffee shops.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't just get him at the boxing gym.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds funny, but it's like Buwazi is a type of guy where he'll be like,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: meet me at the coffee shop.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll meet him at the coffee shop and I'll do an interview with him.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: But he's like he's a pretty interesting guy.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that some of what you speak to is like he's reserved. He's thoughtful.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: He thinks about things.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe he's too smart to be a boxer
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: because he maybe overthinks things has been my observation is like he thinks too
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: deeply about subjects.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then I want to talk about my thoughts on Hutchins is I saw him
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: as the amateur standout, didn't know the full potential that he could have,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: see that he lost, didn't know much about his opponent, go, okay,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: it's a British boxer who stepped up and he's got a ceiling to a certain extent.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of overachieved in my opinion.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of reinvented himself.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: How about this for a comparison, Tokers?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hutchinson kind of made the leap we expected Boatze to make.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of pushed himself and propelled himself during these Riyadh season fights
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: to go to a world level instead of just being a British fighter
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: who only knowledgeable fans know.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the Ezra Taylor win, I think, was a big win.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But that being said, it's like all things being equal...
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Tend to think Buwazi is just the better fighter.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if Buwazi still is at that level, I think he'll win.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I really find this a compelling matchup because you could make an argument
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: that Hutchinson has the momentum.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hutchinson has that drive and belief.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that Buwazi, like you said, maybe missed a window in his career.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what makes this fight so interesting is you could see any scenario.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: You could see both guys dominate.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: You could see a competitive close fight.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think any expert that's telling the truth really clearly sees what's going
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: to happen here.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of, it's one of those weird scenarios
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: where the potential negatives make it good, if that makes sense.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you were right, it's a very European thing to go to a coffee shop,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: but that's another story.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with Hutchinson, man, he's really, really talented.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think he hasn't been the best trainer.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't been sort of historically the best trainer.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he's sort of a 172-pounder, if that makes sense.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: He can't do super middleweight,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: but he's not really a fully-fledged white heavyweight.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the 172 pound division vision he'd be perfect for.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, he's super talented and he reinvented himself.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: He left the Ingle gym.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what's his name?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: The German coach that he's with now.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: His name's gone, but he's with a German coach.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And for the aggregators, his name isn't gone.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's Toker's name.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have to sometimes, guys, in clip culture,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: we get a guy trying to aggregate and stuff or AI jumps in. So I just want to...
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to clarify that because they could say, I could just see it going,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: boxing expert says Willie Hutchinson's name coach is German and it's weird name,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: nickname coach gone.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to quickly look that up because that's going to annoy me.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: But he went over to him
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: and sort of built himself back.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mirko Wolf, that's it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Mirko Wolff, that's it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mirko Wolff, very good trainer.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the decline of German boxing, hasn't really got a lot of guys.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many stories I could talk about of European boxing at this present time,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: but we'll keep on Woody Hutchinson.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's nasty.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's a much more nasty fighter than sort of Joshua Buatzi.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Buatze is sort of...
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right, he's very, very smart and he's sort of,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just in a boxing match, I'm going to win the boxing match.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas Hutchinson is super skilled but he also wants to take your head off
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't get that from Biloxi.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think I want to add to that.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hutchins seems like a mean guy.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think I'd enjoy him,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: but it seems like he found his love of the life by being able to fight people
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: because it feels like he would have been a confrontational guy in life.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Would have gotten in.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Bawatsi feels like he's someone that could do many different things in life,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: but happened to be good at boxing. And I think
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: that that is maybe fundamentally what makes this fight interesting is you have
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: someone that comes off as like a spiritual fighter versus someone that's more
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: of an athlete that came into boxing that had a lot of success in it.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's kind of maybe on a deeper level what intrigues people.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Well, um, I think you're right with Boazzi there.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Willie Hutchinson's a traveller and sort of the typical Tyson Fury,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Billy Joe Saunders, Bare Knucklers when we were five, you know, that sort of thing.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of the same with Hutchinson.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's been brought up around boxing.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Boazzi not necessarily has to the same degree.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's probably a correct assessment.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think Hutchinson's going to win a decision here.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not confident in that, but I just think it's about timing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think the timing's gone for Boazzi.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big thing for me.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to strike whilst the iron's hot, and I don't think Boazzi did in his career.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think he made a lot of money, and you can delve into the...
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: The matchroom and boxer lawsuit over him to see how much money he made for fights
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: against Powell Stepien.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: For the legal heads, if you're part of boxing legal.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can delve into that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of those documents are public and you can see pretty much how much he made
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: for fights against Dan Aziz and Powell Stepien that were ridiculous amounts of money
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: for those fights.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Made a lot against Callum Smith and it's sort of like I think he's a smart guy,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: and I think he's got married, he's got a family, I think he's content.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think Hutchinson is.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just think it's about timing.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Hutchinson wasn't sort of dominated in the first fight, with a few adjustments,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: and otherwise he's slowing down a little bit.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just think it sounds right for Hutchinson to nick a point to win here, to be honest.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask you the next question.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: The fights for the vacant WBC light heavyweight title, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is the division moving on from Better Beave and Bivol?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like, to me, I'll answer my question. I think it is.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think Bivol's very inactive, and I think it's closer to the end of his career.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, with Better Beave in his 40s, there's one or two more fights for him.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think everyone's looking at this division and saying, man, this was a crazy era.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was a good era of light heavyweights.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think people don't realize that there's a new era approaching and this is kind
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: of one of the first, what do you call it,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: tea leaves or whatever in this new era of guys that are going to be that next wave.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious to get your thoughts because for all I know,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Bivol could stay in the division for five more years and dink and dot people.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think Bivol's getting to the point where
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: He'll be in sort of a mummy fight at some point.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it gets to a point with him where he's sort of defended the belt,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: he's won undisputed, he's done all that, and it's like,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: can I really bother to defend the title against, I don't know,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: someone like Ben Whitaker?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is that really a big fight when I could go fight Canelo or something
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: or a 190 pounds catchweight at Cruiserweight or something stupid?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because we know how boxing is.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think there is a new era coming.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we'll be able to fight again.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just think he's, what, 42 now?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hasn't fought in nearly two years.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hasn't had any talk about fighting.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Benavidez won't come back down.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Biffle's 36-ish, 37, something like that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cameron Smith's about the same.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Vosdik's gone, got knocked out by...
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hot Rod. Hot Rod.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I like Hot Rod a lot.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: But you're sort of moving on.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And there's the new guys coming through, the winner of this fight.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Guys like Ben Whittaker, Atif Olberton, Naji Lopez...
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a really, really talented Russian fighting on the big wonder card, Sharaputin Atayev.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's fighting Albert Ramirez for the WBA regular title, whatever that's worth.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think he's pretty good.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: He won amateur gold of the Worlds.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Proper, proper, sort of really talented, typical Russian fighter in that sort of style.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's coming along.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some fun fights.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the time when an era peaks and the guys go,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: and now everyone's fighting each other to determine who's going to be
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: the next top guy, it's a lot of fun.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're seeing that at heavyweight right now.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to see that at Super Bantam when Inouye goes up.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think there's a lot to be positive about at light heavyweight.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: This era was fun, but dare I say it was quite top-heavy.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: You had Baturbi, Bivol, Benavides, and for the last six or seven years,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: it's been clear that Bivol and Baturbi have been the best guys.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it will be a lot more even in the next five or six years.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now we're going to go to the undercard, the very, very,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: for the American fans tuning in that want to see this undercard.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Things in my notes, Jack Rafferty, you know, I don't really rate him super,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: super high, but he's in a 12 round fight.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially the potential of landing maybe a big fight.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: We got Zach Miller versus Gully Power.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's a featherweight division is stuck.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Zach Miller goes on.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: The two fights I got circled are Bradley Rhea versus Ezra Taylor.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I really thought Bradley Rea was going to be a guy.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: It turns out he's probably not going to be a guy.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ezra Taylor, undefined where his ceiling is.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of like you got to win this to keep going.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then the fight that I have to watch is junior middleweight John Joe Kerrigan.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably the most exciting fighter on the card for me,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: even though I'm expecting him to be really dominant in his fight.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: What should people know about this undercard?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we'll...
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start with, I'll gloss over Jack Rafferty,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: he's fighting a Belgian who lost to Piers O'Leary
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: for the IBO title that we love
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: over here in the UK because, you know.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time he can't get hands on real world titles, but that's another story.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: It should be a fun fight. Rafferty will win.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: He does a lot of tickets in Manchester.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of why he's there.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: He'll probably get a big fight at some point.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like the British matchmaking sort of...
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: He has domestic fights for world titles all the time.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if Paddy Donovan nicks one, Jack Rafferty's there.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Conor Walker's there for him.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of fun fights for Jack Rafferty there.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Zach Miller, Gunny Power.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: For the vacant British title, I think Gunny Power's going to win that fight.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: It should be fun, but I just think Gunny Power's a better fighter.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Taylor Ray.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: The guys who have lost recently at domestic level
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: at heavyweight fighting each other,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of domestic light heavies in this country that are very, very fun.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we're finally starting to see them fight each other.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: You had Craig Richards against Anaziz, you're having this fight.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: These two are coming off losses against guys like Lyndon Arthur
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: and Woody Hutchinson, and they're all just fighting each other,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: and they're all good fights.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not like the top world level fight, but it's a well-matched sort of domestic level 10-rounder.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, there's two guys on the undercard, I think, that are worth noting.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe three.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Jandro Carrigan.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Just a fantastic fighter.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the best prospect in the country, I'd say.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant amateur.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was unbeaten in the amateurs, won the world youths.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just a brilliant, brilliant prospect.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he's gotten away
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: from the international set-up
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: for amateurs in this country
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: at the right time because...
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Way too many people hang about in that setup and it ruins them.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of examples that everyone can sort of see that.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then, Javukir Mitaliev.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's the Uzbek.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: He won gold at the World Championships.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's sort of a super middle stroke light heavy.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Very good fighter.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of reminds me a bit of sort of a Southall version of Bivol.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I know sort of the reputation of Uzbeks.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: They sort of hop him back and forth to the amateurs.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems to me, at least at the moment, that he's fully committed to the pros,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: which is a good thing.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's got the potential to be a very good pro.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if he commits, I think he's got world titles in him.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's about it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Alex Arthur Jr. is on this on the card as well.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: The son of Alex Arthur, who was a very, very fun fighter about 20 years ago.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did film study on him, not expecting a ton, but he likes to run into people.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I just mentioned them because my dad loved watching his dad.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Next topic is Zufa Boxing is running a show in the UK the same day...
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's the buzz for that?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: How's the buzz between Chris Billingsmith
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: and Shev Clark versus Hutchinson-Bowatze too?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just did the thing where I flipped the names, Bowatze versus Hutchinson too.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's the pulse on the ground for that fight?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess to give my editorial on this...
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like cruiserweight is one of these divisions where it's really hard for me
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: to get excited because it always feels like there's a guy that's the best guy.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's a bunch of dudes that are fighting and they can be really, really fun fights.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this could be a really, really fun fight.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think Shev Clark is kind of live in this, depending on how much punishment.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm doing my editorial, but it's like Bill Smith has taken a lot of punishment
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: and there's a chance that he gets old overnight,
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: but then he's also like a heavyweight that can make cruiserweight.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So like there's always the X factor that he's just really big.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Shev Clark kind of an underachiever.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like he's kind of mirroring Boatsy in a sense where I thought he was really,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: really good as an amateur and then he's just never quite reached
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: the success I expected.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Some shocking losses in my opinion. I'm just curious.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're British boxing to me.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's going on.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on this card and what are the stories at play?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say it's pretty even, the sort of excitement for either card.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Bill Smith's been a world champion, been a household name headline.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not a household name, but been sort of a big British boxing name.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Has headlined at stadiums, done all that.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, Hutchinson, sort of similar things,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: they've headlined their big British boxing names.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think maybe...
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe sort of Ben Smith against Clark is sort of like a where do you go fight for both of them.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because you look at Ben Smith and you're like, well, after the Riziki win,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: and you're like, well, where does he go? Does he fight Upatai?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Upatai's sort of got a wilder fight and he's going to probably fight Benavidez
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ben Smith's not waiting around for that.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Shev Clark sort of gets beaten up by Jack Massey, lands a shot from the gods,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: and you're thinking, well...
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: How is he going to fight really? Vidal Reilly? Probably not.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a rematch that nobody really wants to see.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a good fight and he got dominated.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where are the names?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And always is the case in British Boxing.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the fights you see, they are domestic fights.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically two domestic names shoved together.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Into a fight and it's like it should be a fun fight and they got a lot of amateur history.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Shevon Clark beat up Chris Benningsmith to put it bluntly in the final
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: of the national championships in 2016.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: You can find that part on YouTube, it was pretty one-sided.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a very, very interesting fight.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not counting Chef Clark out because of the amount of times he beat up Bill
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: and Smith in the amateurs.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: But then again, you sort of think he hasn't really translated to a pro.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Bill and Smith can probably do things in the pros that he couldn't do in the amateurs.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's an intriguing fight.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest story on this card is Denzel Bentley and not even a Denzel Bentley fight.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's Denzel Bentley's situation with the world title.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of the biggest story on this card
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: because a lot of them are just like,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: oh yeah, that's a good fight and we ain't got much to say.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: With Bentley, it's sort of who sent the emails to who and who ordered what
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: and when did someone petition this and is it right to give up your world title
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: to fight somebody like this on Zufa?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you've got, you know, I like Denzel Bentley,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: he's a very good fighter, but the facts are,
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: he got upgraded to World Champion and then vacated it as soon as he got a mandatory.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's never sort of defended a title, never won it in the ring, and they let go.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of discussion around that, and...
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Not a lot of discussion about Shane Mosley Jr.,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: who I think has got a very good chance of beating him.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a really close fight.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's the main story of this card to be honest.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm going to unpack some things and then we're going to go deep dive
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: into the Mosley-Bentley thing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that like, well actually both fights,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: the main and then the Bentley-Mosley fight,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: they embody something that strike fear in my heart.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: When Everyone kind of assumes an outcome or is overlooking someone.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: We tend to see a zag.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And with Billum Smith, I keep picking against him.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Glanton was going to be live against him.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I just don't understand his style.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Coley win was a huge win for him,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: not just because of beating a guy like Bentley,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: but it was like or not Bentley a Coley.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because Akoli was so boring.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like a guy beating this guy that looked like he'd be in the division
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: and giving us snooze-offs really propelled him up in the division.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like that was like a, man, the boring guy lost.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like he got an approval rating.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think Clark has a real chance.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Lionel Watson, Bill Smith's ability to get away
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: from excessive holding has helped him tremendously.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I also think he's one of those guys, and Tokers, tell me if I'm right or wrong on this.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Bill Smith has an ability to kind of work when he's holding.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of skirts the line where like, yes, he's holding,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: but he also has like a masterful art form of punching while he's in there.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the ref doesn't fully, there's like a science to what he's doing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a very, very, very Shane McGuigan thing.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you notice, Josh Taylor was brilliant at that as well.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember the knockdown against Ramirez where it's sort of half in a clinch?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Punch off the break.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very Shane McGuigan thing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's produced very good fighters at doing that.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And with Bin and Smith, he was smart in a Cody year, so God,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: you've got to be able to do that in your crest.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I try and forget about that Cody fight as much as I can.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think Shev Clark's got a great chance, man.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Go and watch the National Final from 2016 and just see how one-sided it is.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Shev Clark put a beating on him.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like when that happens, you meet later in the process.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Scar tissues. Scar tissue.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: We saw it with Ryan Garcia and Roley.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Even though that was sparring, it's like you saw Ryan going, when this guy hits me,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: it's pretty hard. And he goes, oh no, it's still the same.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's scar tissue there.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And like, Shev Clark has looked sort of,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: ever since he lost to, no, not the loss,
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: he fought in LA, FA Apache, when it was really, really hot outside in, not LA.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where is it?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: The outdoor arena in California, that's my Kilmer.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's Carson, California, the Dignity Health Sports part,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: which I know is the Home Depot Center, but.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know it was the war grounds, but no one calls it that anymore.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: They don't do enough fights there. That's why.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: They don't show fights there.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: We used to get maybe eight fights there, and now we get one or two.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think Pacheco versus Fulgrim is going to be from there.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: But other than that, you know.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I really like the arena, but that's a side note. But he had that F.A.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Pachi fight there.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: That took a lot out of him.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: That was a close decision win that he could have lost.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: If it was a 12-rounder, he definitely would have got knocked out, that sort of thing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then loses to Leonardo Mascada
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: for the European title in Monaco and gets dropped and gets hurt.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a war.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: That he loses, gets scored by Vidal Riley and you're thinking, God, where does he go from here?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then even the Jack Massey fight, Jack Massey was dominating him.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then he lands a shot and stops the fight.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, yeah, he won the fight.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: But was he really, really the better man in there that night?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or did he just land a shot and it changed the fight
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: after getting dominated in his role multiple times?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so coming into a Ben and Smith fight, you're thinking, well,
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: they're both sort of shot for one a bit.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think Ben and Smith will probably win on points,
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: but I wouldn't be shocked if Clark knocks him out because...
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Bidham Smith's another guy, man.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of punishment.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of punishment.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Zerdo, Mastenek.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: He took a lot of clean right hands against React 4.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Even the first React 4 fight as well.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: The Tony McCarthy fight. There's so many.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's been a great servant to the sport in this country, Crispin and Smith.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's had a fantastic career, but man, it's a lot of damage.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: He earned his living, is what you're saying.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: He earned his paycheck.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he's always been that sort of big physical guy.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've had a conversation before, the big physical guys that rely on it,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know, sometimes overnight they turn into Jerry Joyce or Gerald Hood
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: or something like that. Can
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I ask you a question?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Does he qualify for a big stiff idiot or not big stiff idiot territory?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: But that's half the European boxers.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's not necessarily a bad thing.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I just wanted to clarify that.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's go into Denzel Bentley versus Mosley.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the storyline is this belt thing.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of feel for Bentley because he's like a blue-collar guy.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I thought he beat Janabek.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's kind of been in a position to be a gatekeeper almost prematurely.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's a pretty good fighter, but he was a guy that had to fight off the undercard
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: or off young fighters, wins a belt, interim belt, gets promoted,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: gets an opportunity with Zufa Boxing, probably a ton of money,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: more money than he was expecting.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, man, I'm at the end of my career.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of know where I'm at.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: The thing about this fight, man, is I did film study on it, which, you know,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to be like, well,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: that doesn't matter because that's like the blind leading the blind.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: They both fight in the mid-range to me.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they both basically do the same thing.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like these are the fights Shane Mosley Jr. wins.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like nine times out of ten he wins these type of fights.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing about Shane is when he fights those next level guys like Ramos,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: he gets hit really, really clean.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Bentley doesn't get hit as clean, but I'm going to tell you Tokers,
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: my gut feeling is Shane Mosley's going to win this fight,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: and it's going to surprise people.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily disagree massively.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um...
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: What I do think is that I think if Denzil Bentley is going to win,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to have to knock him out.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he wins on points.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's going to win more rounds than Mosley here.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: But like you say, Mosley gets hit clean and Bentley can, out of all his faults, he can punch.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, this is a proper, proper trial fight for Bentley.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's making money.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's making money, but I do sort of, not to get too sort of into the business,
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: but with how ruthless he's been with cutting people,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: would it maybe have been a better idea to,
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: But just focusing on the fight, I think it's a tough fight, I don't know.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's had a weird career.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's had a really weird career.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Turned pro with not much expectation.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wins the British title against Mark Heffron after drawing with him
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: in the first fight, in a fight that not a lot of people thought he won.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly didn't think he won that first Mark Heffron fight,
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: then stops him in the lockdown era. That was a weird thing.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was like seven or eight weeks after the first fight.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was really, really close.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Gets the British title.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Gets sort of blasted out of there by Felix Cash,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: bounces back, has a dodgy,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: weird sort of diddy-win-it decision against Linus Eudofio.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then he's fighting Janabek and does well.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think he won the fight, but I thought he overperformed.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then loses to Nathan Heaney.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of such a weird up and down career
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: that you can never really tell what level he is.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: He gets the Saavedra fight, wins it.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Saavedra was well in that fight.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's a good fighter, but is he ready to top tier of middleweight?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not really.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Circumstances, getting a world title.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now he's sort of cashing in.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Fair enough, but
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: If he loses this fight, I don't know where he goes
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: because what I do know is he's burned a lot of bridges by what he said
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: and what he's done.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: He was right to get the money,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: but I hope he's been smart enough to have a route to come back if he loses.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a weird fight.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a weird fight.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: I really do like the fight.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't really put my finger on what's going to happen.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think you could see just Bentley knock him out pretty early.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or you could see Shane outworking him and grounding him down and we're quite wired.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a good fight, man.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a sort of middleweight fight.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: So in the chat, Lionel Watson, thank you for jumping in.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: One of our friends of the show.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Bentley relies on counterpunching too much.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: He needs opponents to make mistakes.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you give him nothing to counter, he loses.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's how Haney win.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: One, and that is a good observation.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: To me, it's like, I was watching tape.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do the mailbag and I do film study.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: People break it down.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these young pros I'm watching, especially the Eye of the Tiger ones.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: There were a couple of guys. I forget their names.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: They wait so much.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like Denzel Bentley somehow.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: He sometimes is infuriating with that he will wait for the perfect punch.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then in those fights, he loses.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Guys will just be like, okay, I'm just not going to give you anything to work.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're making that nonverbal agreement that you're going to look for a punch
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: and the fight's slow.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, if you're a fan of his, you can be infuriated.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's times where he makes a decision to initiate.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's like you said, he's an inconsistent fighter.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah, I think it was, I was at that, I was at this fight,
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: it was on the Joyce-Sharing one-arm, the audience, Kieran Smith.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was either the first fight after Yanabek or the second fight after Yanabek.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And he's just walked across the ring and ironed him out in about a minute.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he committed to it.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Kieran Smith wasn't a bad fighter at domestic level back in the day.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: He was sort of gave Troy Williamson a really tough fight.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he's walked across the ring and ironed him out in about a minute.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you're thinking, well, why don't you do that to everyone else?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Not that it's that simple, but why can't you have that commitment to throw shots?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's weird. It's weird.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's such an inconsistent fighter.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can't really face him.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it would be very, very Denzel Bentley to lose this fight
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: and then somehow come back and become a world champion again.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's just what he is.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's very inconsistent.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: I almost feel like I fear the fight where people expect Denzel Bentley supposed to win.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like these are the fights he loses.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you count him out, he's going to be a million bucks.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of people thought he would beat Felix Cash.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was at the Heaney fight and that was sort of Queensry sort of saying, right,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to do a big show in Manchester.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Heaney does a load of tickets.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is Heaney's cash out. He's had a good run.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's not really at that level.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: We've got Nick Bald against Dogbo on the card.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to push them and we're going to push Denzel back.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to push Nick Bald after he beats Dogbo and we're going
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: to push Denzel Bentley after he beats Heaney.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then Bentley just barely throws a punch.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: There were circumstances surrounding that fight, but, I mean, he was poor.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: He was poor in saving him that night.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's weird.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's really strange.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is with him.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, on his day, he can give loads of people trouble.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if he's on his game properly, 100%, I think he'll win the fight.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I just get the sense of everything going on that he won't be.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we got to hit the speed round because now we're approaching.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Undercard for this fight card.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I got to go through my notes.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: We got DeMontez Van Hooter.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Probably said that all wrong.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: He is a young heavyweight that turned pro at a lower weight,
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: and we are going to get graphics now. Sam Hickey vs. Troy.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Time about how he started at a lower weight class and grew like people
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: that are young don't grow.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: He looks good, America doesn't have a lot of heavy weights.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, a right hand can ruin a prospect.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to see him in a competitive fight for at least a year just
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: for his own development's sake.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sam Hickey versus Troy Coleman screams of being a fun domestic fight.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Does it have world title implications? Not at all.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Zach Parker versus Umar Desmond Bekoff to me kind of tells us
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: if Desmond Bekoff can be a guy or if Zach Parker is treading the right way.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Lucas Roe rig.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Might be the most interesting cruiserweight coming up.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Kayla Allen is interesting to me because she signed with Zufa and I believe she's
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: the only Zufa fighter signed.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And Musad Abdullah against Aiden Palma is kind of...
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: A fight that I like because it's like a British dude versus an American dude
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: in the same domestic level.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like the superpowers of domestic fighters.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And Palma is known for punching.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if guys can take his power, it seems like against Pablo Rubio Jr.,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: a fighter would have been inactive and I believe was signed to Golden Boy
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: in the last decade.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of hit a wall in that fight.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a really good fight like many Zufa cards.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: But what stands out to you?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think Van Hoos is interesting.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: You say a right hand can ruin a heavyweight prospect, certainly not Ivan Balazs,
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: we'll say that, rather than getting into what Ivan Balazs is.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: If Van Hoos doesn't sort of stop him in about two rounds, there's an issue.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Parker against his mech of, I think, I think that's an upset waiting to happen.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think Zach Parker can win that fight.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's back or five.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've said it about three different ways, but you get the point.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Umar's feet are very slow, and I think Zach Parker can skirt around the ring
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: and potentially win a decision there.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sam Hickey, Troy Coleman, good fight.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sam Hickey, very good amateur.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's sort of coming through.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's really Sean on the Zufa.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Got a couple of big knockout wins, and I think he'll stop Troy Coleman here.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: What else?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Rorick against McDonald.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think Rorick is going to struggle, but he's going to win.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he's got that high a ceiling, if I'm being totally honest.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now I got to push back on this because he looks like a guy to me that could be good.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I have some inside information that was wrong, but people have been high on him.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And from the physique to kind of his composure, he's really impressed me.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to give me what doesn't stand out to you.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think he doesn't react to shots particularly well.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And at cruiserweight, you're going to get hit a lot by heavy punches.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think he reacts to it well.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he likes getting a hit.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he fires back when he gets hit.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's issues there surrounding his durability.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think you'll see him be really,
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: really good until he hits about British level, European level,
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: and then you'll sort of see him and go, oh, that was obvious.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest, could be wrong, but we'll see.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll see.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody else on this undercard that you're looking at?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, the Abdullah Palmer fight is very, very good as well.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a perfect sort of summary that you gave.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of an American domestic level against a British domestic level.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you'd never, without Zufa, that fight would never ever happen.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a fun fight.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't make sense.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get a sense with Zufa?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to slightly change the subject just quickly.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: That they sort of put on good fights that don't make sense.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where they're struggling.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I get that sense.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: But that's why I kind of like it.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think they need to lean into that is they need to lean
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: into we're not doing traditional boxing.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: The rubric isn't what you can just obviously see where the fights are going.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like that they're chaos agent boxing where they're just matching guys up
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: and you don't always know where it's going.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I get what you're saying is there's like a learning curve or the brand has
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: to get more familiar for that to be successful.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: But that's actually what I appreciate about Zufa is Like, you can get any fight.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're just like, okay, here's a guy that fought in LA, he lost.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a guy in the UK, he lost.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's match him up.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, for me, I'm like, wow, this is like a video game. This is awesome.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I get what you're saying where it's like, You know,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: maybe LA fans are like, I don't watch British boxing or British fans are like,
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't watch domestic level US fights.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there's like a little bit of like, who is this guy?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the most exciting thing about Zufa boxing personally.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah. Like I thank you because, because we're all sick.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I like the fight, but it's, it's sort of the same thing.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: You had, um, Cesar Mateo Tapia boxing another Mexican.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: At 8 o'clock in the UK.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody in the arena knew who they were.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a good fight. It was a fun fight.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I liked the match up on paper.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: I liked the fight as it played out.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it just didn't make sense.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I do like it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's going to take time for people to accept that sort of thing.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And have they got the time and money to invest that amount on something
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: that might probably won't work with the British public, to be totally honest.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the most blatant thing.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the reaction to Azim against Golas, which is a good fight,
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: everyone's slating that fight because they don't know who Golas is.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it'd be the same thing with this.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to sort of explain.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not really.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: People are comfortable with what they're familiar with, I would say.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not familiar with this sort of thing.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I like the fights, but it's a weird thing, Zufa.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want to add this, right?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I just made for the good fight, cheap plug, goodfight12.substack.com,
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: basically the 25 fighters under 25,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: controversial picks, many people will be mad.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing that they asked me to come up with the five,
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know how they say top five or whatever for a little video segment, right?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's Gabriel Afendora, Abdullah Mason.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start to go, ooh, what am I going to shake up?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I put Jamal Harvey in there because I think he's promising.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: But my other two, I excluded Moses off of the loss.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I put Adam Azim and John Arobio.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to push back on you and say,
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a mistake to put Azim over Moses after Moses got stopped?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I guess for me, I think Moses has more potential,
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: but I have a real fear after watching what happened to Jared Anderson
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: that with this young generation of fighters,
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to see him come back before I put him super high.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Azim to me, I see the flaws and he definitely hasn't gone
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: to that next level, but he has some superstar traits where it feels like
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: when he gets to those big fights, he's going to kind of win.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you could say, Lukie, that's the same thing we were saying about Otama,
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: but it really feels like there's something special with him in a Robio.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: I put up there just because I feel like people don't care about his career and he's
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: a really, really good fighter.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of like a nerd deep dive pick to give a deserving fighter more.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get your thoughts on this.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: I like the aerobio pick.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: And how about this, Lukie?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Adam Azeem is currently the best British boxer.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Currently, he's the best.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't proven it, and he hasn't beat the guys.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a butt.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's a butt coming.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't. He's the best British fighter right now.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it hurts my soul to put him above Moses because Moses was so fun and so exciting.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I also feel like Adam Azim is really effing promising.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there's also a contingency of people like when you hit him
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: with a right hand, he's going to get knocked out.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Obvious Dalton Smith beats him.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like when he fights Dalton Smith, he's going to beat Dalton Smith.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: I might be in the minority for that, but I feel like when they fight.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think people are going to be very, very surprised with how easy Adam Azim beats Dalton Smith.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it would be particularly competitive.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think Azim's foot, speed, and hand speed are way too much for somebody
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: who doesn't really set up anything with a jab and has slow feet.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, he's going down the IBF route.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Delgado against Arsenal is getting rescheduled.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Fight the winner of that.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Win the title and unify with Smith, hopefully.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Adam is very, very, very good
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to, I wanted to make sure I didn't lose my boxing nerd card on that one,
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: because that was, I was sitting there last night and going, man,
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: there's going to be the hot take boys are going to be out in full force.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other news and notes, Erislandy, Laura's fighting Tim zoo on the undercard.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: We got my guide, Jermell Charlo against Brock Jarvis.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's exciting.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is Laura going to be the new Bernard Hopkins?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because to me, Obviously, most people are going to favor Zhu because he's younger.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's a pressure fighter.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: But, like, Lara hits really hard.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And Tim Zhu is not the most elusive guy.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a part of me that feels like this is...
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Lara's going to knock out Tim Zhu and it's going to shock people.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can see it. I can see it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'd...
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's two guys who are past it, basically, isn't it, really?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who's regressed the furthest.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Zou looked particularly good against Spence.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was just in there with somebody who was worse or more deteriorated than him.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Lara doesn't really fight.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he looked terrible against Danny Garcia, who looked worse.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't get the Anabek fight for... Is it Joran Gonzalez, he thought?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Johan Gonzalez filled in and it was just a very sleepy performance.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't he sort of drop him in the first, do nothing and drop him in the last?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think, was it Delvin Rodriguez he fought where he did that as well?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of the vintage Lara.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Demetrius Andrade would do that too, drop you in the first round.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Gabe Flores would do that, drop you in the first round.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, You know, we're going all 10, you know,
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: somehow seeing the knockdown, you'd be like, okay,
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: we're locked in for a 10 round fight.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was never enthusiasm.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: The stoppage is coming.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think, I think Lara can have boxing, but also, um,
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jamal Charlo against Brock Jarvis won't be happening,
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: so we don't need to talk about that.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because something's going to go wrong because it's the Charlos.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to save that segment for Dakota because he loves to go off
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: on the Charlos just because it's like, you know, these guys.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's rather remarkable how the Charlos should have been really a force
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: in this decade of boxing.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like, even though they had a good run like 2020 to 2023,
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: or at least Jermell did, he was a pound for pound fighter.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: When we look back at this decade,
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: they're not going to have as strong of an imprint because I think of they had
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: that pay-per-view card together and it's like, okay,
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Charlo bros are pay-per-view level fighters.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you were like, okay, this decade is probably Charlos are going
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: to be defining this decade to a certain extent.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just been a gradual fall to obscurity rather than like becoming
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: that next level Hall of Fame guy.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah, and it's sad.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's sad because they're so talented.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: They were so good.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they legit could have been stars.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: I remember in school, 2018 probably,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: you had the people that talk about Joshua and Fury,
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe Trezorah to an extent,
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: were like, oh yeah, we know Charlo.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, wow.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're really making an impact there.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's, you know, you say about pay-per-view cards, what, they've got, like,
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: what, Jamal's had the Castano fight,
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: which he could have lost and knocked him out in the rematch.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then Jamal's sort of done nothing.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sad.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's sad.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: They fight, you know, Jamal's not fought in three years and a couple of months.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Jamal's not fought in, what, 18 months at this point?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: In the last fight before that was 18 months.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, It's sad because they're really good, but anyway.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they have big personalities.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have big personalities on top of being good.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you wanted to see a fight week because they're not just going to be like
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: a politically correct answer.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was like they were going to do things that shook things up.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of funny characters in boxing.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think boxing thrives when you have personalities.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, they're doing the sort of fighting Caleb
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Planter fight week.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a Canelo fight week, and then I never fought.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the point?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, the first thing you need to do is be fighting in meaningful fights,
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: and then you can put all the other stuff on top of it,
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: the micro habits on top of it.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say, just quickly...
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: Liam Wilson against El Nato Madoff on that underguard.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's for like WBA regular title, which is whatever.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a very, very, very fun fight.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Not a lot of people have seen some Madoff.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: He's been on the RCC circuit sort of fighting guys like...
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really fun matchup.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's going to be a proper war.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think Liam Wilson could end up losing that fight.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very good fight.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go under the radar.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's not going under the radar to our peeps.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just announced today, I know you're super excited about this one,
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: our guy Jaya Pattaya fighting Deontay Wilder.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: I assume it's at heavyweight, but I don't know.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen any releases.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean...
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: What are we even doing?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like who wants to like no disrespect to Wilder, but isn't he 40?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: He just had a fight of the year with Eric Chisora, who's very old.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Jaya Pataya is like one of the more interesting, relevant, close to his prime fighters.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like we're trotting out big names from a previous generation until they can't go.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the latest one.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think Boxer at Grey sums it up, doesn't he?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: He needs to move on from 2016 Boxers.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's the old thing with Boxing, isn't it?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's the sort of standard, you know, modern-day Volvo against a battered old Ferrari.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: One's a much better car, but one's going to make people's eyes turn.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of what Netflix want here and what Appetite probably needs.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: He needs to knock out somebody who's got a name.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the unfortunate truth of it, because nobody really knows who Dreyipatai is.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if he wants to make a Benavidez fight big, that's what you've got to do.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do I like the fight? No.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Does anybody have any other prediction other than Dreyupatai knocking him out inside
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: the first six rounds?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: But here's what it is.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't like it, but I understand the thinking.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: But if this sport was in a healthy place right now,
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: fights like that wouldn't happen because we wouldn't need them to happen.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, next thing.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: I saw you on X. Junto Nakatani's return.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: New speculative matchmaker.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Who would you match him with?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sam Goodman.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sam Goodman.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're essentially saying, you know, the IBF interim title.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Inoue's maybe got one more at Super Phantom, maybe hasn't got any.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sam Goodman's a pretty decently sized name in Japan.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: Very good fighter.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just come off a fight of the year against somebody who fought Nakatani, Ashida.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um...
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's a good fight against a top-level Superbantum, and they're there.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's talk about January for him, from what I'm hearing anyway.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: Nakatani returning on a prime video card in January with potentially Shaqichi Watt
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: against Rennie Santiago, so that should be fun.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think Sam Goodman's the obvious player.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Ramon Cardenas as well.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're sort of the two that you'd like,
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: but then you've got Gary Russell there as well, who's sort of,
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: because of the interim title he's got, makes himself sort of relevant,
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: even though he's not really done much.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, Sam Goodman first, Cardenas second.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's what
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd do.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, then the next one, Oscar Collazo.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Make sense of what's happening there.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um... Hmm...
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think if there's a legend who's retiring,
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: who's from your same island in January and you want to fight on her undercard,
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: then you're going to have to vacate your world title to do it, aren't you?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just summed it up pretty good.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: I guess what I also want to say is Colazo kind of almost had
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: a PR campaign amongst knowledgeable fight fans to be like he's a pound
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: for pound fighter.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: And now it feels like there's pushback that he hasn't made like he's.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's in a lower weight class where the fights should be made
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: because it's like he has a big promoter with Golden Boy.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of us look and go, well, in terms of these 105 pound fights,
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: where is the big money outside of fighting Colazo?
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yet unifications aren't happening.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: At times he looks kind of ordinary.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's kind of that boredom rule where he feels like
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: at any moment he can ramp it up and win.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, he's not looking the same as he did in 2022, 2023,
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: where he was kind of this guilty pleasure,
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: really lower weight fighter who felt like a Roman Chocolatito Gonzalez,
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: aggressive pressure fighter who was bursting onto the scene and about to be a force.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a rather uneventful run, and I felt like the Sandoval fight,
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Sandoval was probably going to win it,
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: probably wouldn't have gone that way, seen how we saw with Mendoza.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: But does his style even translate to 112 pounds?
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what are your thoughts on my observations of his career?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're right, and I think anyone who takes an interest
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: in the weight class sort
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: of He makes Jerusalem retire on his store,
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: unifies with Freshmart, and then you're thinking, wow,
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to really kick on now,
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: and it's defense against someone you've never heard of,
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: defense against someone you've never heard of,
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: another defense against somebody and then it just keeps going like that, and then,
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: yeah.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he hasn't fought anybody since the Freshmart fight, really, at the top level.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's two years ago.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's like, you can have a couple of them, sort of fights, you know,
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: marking time defense, get yourself out, get yourself paid, keep the momentum going.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you're at the Melvin Jerusalem rematch,
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: the WBC belt fall apart earlier this year because the zone had the issues
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: with Golden Boy and cut their budget and around the Virgil Ortiz lawsuit,
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: there was all that rubbish.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Allegations, might I say.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: None confirmed.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are just reading between tea leaves and speculation.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Allegedly. Don't sue me, Oscar.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: But, um... Yeah, you had all that going on, and then... Um, didn't happen.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hasn't really shown that much interest in fighting Pedro Talleyrand,
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: who's probably the number two guy in the division right now.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's not going to fight Rusei Maximaito, who's a decent fighter.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um...
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: But not nothing special.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know the weirdest thing about all these fights, Lukie?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: All these people vacating belts and turning down fights and withdrawing from first bids.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Half the time, all the fights are winnable.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Shiraz could have beaten Janabek.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: Kalazzo, 99% would have beaten Rosso Maxim.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 99% confident he would have beaten him.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Keyshawn Davis would have beaten Haney and You know, it's so weird.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't understand the move.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're moving up to flyweight, then you're coming back down to 105, then you're doing all this.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't know what to make of his career.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's a fantastic fighter that's not fighting anyone.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's down to him.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because he didn't have to vacate his world title
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: to fight a top five contender.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: it's not like this is a terrible mandatory
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: for really bad money.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tekken, according to the boxing
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: scene And that way, you know,
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: to fight somebody that you're probably going to beat in a market where if you're
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: at that weight, you want to sort of grow your fan base. Why?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you ever say no easy that?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the sound of our fight was there that just seemed like, oh, golden boy,
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: we've got two guys that are sort of small weight fighters.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just put them together. It didn't really make sense.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just been a weird career.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's been...
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cause he's so talented. He's so talented.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's such a good fighter, but this is where we're at.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay. Final two things.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: We got two last things and then we got to get you out
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: of here is there seems like there could be an upset on this lead of promotions card.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking at the fights at the top.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: We got, obviously I know you're a big interim belt guy,
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: WBA interim flyweight title between Abraham Perez,
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: current champion who beat Jonathan LaBomba Gonzalez.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's taken on Yankee L Rivera, Rivera lost to LaBomba Gonzalez, but as we know,
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: Boxing math doesn't always math.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't always mean things.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's an interesting fight.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see it with Atif Olberton versus Dion Nicholson.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think Price Taylor versus, I struggle, Raghava, I can't say his first name, the heavyweight.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's an interesting step up.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Cedarius Simmons versus Cesar Navarro is an interesting fight
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: because Cesar Navarro is someone that dropped Dinero Perrault,
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: who's someone that I'm pretty high on.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is there an upset amongst one of those fights?
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a fight that people should really be keeping their eye on?
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think Sainz and Navarro, you can punch very, very hard.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's potential. So it's a banana skin type fight.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like, oh, he's definitely going to win, but like,
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: There are these guys at that sort of prospect level that are banana skins.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be on your game to beat them.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he's one of those.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of upsets, I think Olberton wins.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think Olberton's a very good fighter.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't particularly know, not to disrespect Dimitri Salita,
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: but I don't know why somebody else, like a big promoter, didn't pick him up.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like a bigger promoter.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not being disrespectful to Salita.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's done a very good job with a few people, but like, He's not a top rank.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's not a matchroom. He's not a golden boy.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think to push back on this,
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think what's happened is the big promoters this year aren't signing people.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: So Salida's had an opportunity to pick up fighters that maybe
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: the bigger traditional promoters would have gotten
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: because it feels like top rank golden boy just aren't signing guys.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair. That's very fair.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think there's sort of a thing with a lot of people.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you see an American who's not with those,
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: or if you see a Brit who's not with Boxer or not with Boxer,
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: sort of Matt Troom or Queensbury, you sort of think, oh, they can't be any good.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the people that are digging into the sport like us properly, no.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: But this reputation that you get with your promoter, always a top-round prospect,
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: he must be good.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: Always with this promoter that no one's ever hurt
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: or that no one's really paying attention to them week in, week out,
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: and they're not this historic guy who's been putting on shows for 50 years, oh,
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: you can't be any good. And I don't think that's the case.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's a very, very good prospect.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's probably out of the American light heavyweights.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's the best one coming through, definitely.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Pedro Telleran and Brandon Moreno is a fun fight, a minimum weight, the IBF title.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: Pedro Telleran's a very good fighter.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'd spit them to win that fight, but we'll see.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully Telleran gets a fight soon because he's an awful one.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bit more sympathy there because he's sort of Basically, he hasn't got any backing.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: This fight was meant to be in the Philippines, but they couldn't get the money together.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he's sort of a champion that can't get fights because he's dangerous.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you just have to look up what happened to some of his opponents to realise that.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't want to fight him.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's got an ugly record.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: He had a few losses early on and he can punch very, very hard.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's on you all the time.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's a dangerous fighter and not a lot of people want to fight him.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he's good.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that should be fun.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Perez against Rivera.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think Rivera's got a chance there.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's got a real chance there.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's a close fight, but I think.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Feels like a 50-50 fight.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a good fight.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Good fight.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could be an ugly fight to watch, but it's one of these chess matches.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: It comes down to how special Rivera is to me.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because if Rivera is special, his aggression could take over this fight.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: But Perez's default is to turn into an ugly you-go-I-go distance fight.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of his default, I think.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good assessment.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Final thing, because we're both wearing out here because this has just been
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: an absolutely sick human being podcast, is the MVP card is sneaky, really good.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Alifnor Turhan versus Alicia Bumgardner.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people are writing Turhan off because all she does is kind
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: of load up on punches and try to land a bomb.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, she beat three prospects in the wrong corner last year or champions.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Beatrice Vieira, the girl I'm forgetting about in France, and...
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Shauna Brown.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have Ramla Ali against Makaya Kreps.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think Kreps is going to kind of sizably win that.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: The return is Guy Nicholson against Maya Yoshida is a good fight.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of the fight that I'm drawn to is 45-year-old Irma Garcia
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: against Natalie Delgado in a title unification of fighters that kind of scream
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: on paper of Being used to propel up young fighters.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just love that and Cherime Patricio is fighting for her first world title
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: against Brittany Sims.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: It probably features the most Hall
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: of Fame potential boxers of any card.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anything stand out there for you?
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I can't say I
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_01: am an expert on women's boxing,
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: but what I will say is that Turhan against Brown Gardner,
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are telling me, and from taping it a little bit,
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think Turham could knock Baumgartner out.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let me add to this.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a debate I've been having with people, because it's a three-minute round fight.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are saying, well, that favors Baumgartner,
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: she's a boxer, and all this stuff.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a part of me that thinks when you're in with a puncher,
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: even though she's wild, that's one extra minute every round to be
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: in with a physical power puncher.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not always just assumed that she's just going to be able to outbox
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: and tire out her on because Beatrice Fiera is a very good boxer,
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Olympic level boxer.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think Derek James has made Bumgarner a better fighter because I think she can slow
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_00: the fight down. And I think she's not as exciting as she used to be,
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: but she's more patient and she can win fights at a slower, more deliberate manner.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to show...
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: My issue with Bumgarner is sometimes I feel like she lacks focus in the second half
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: of fights. When the fight isn't as fun, when she's not as explosive,
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that she's enjoyed the celebrity status she's earned in 2022,
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: and she's kind of really, really enjoyed that personality and playing to fans.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes she questions her deep desires for championship boxing in the second half.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what intrigues me about this bout is Terhan at some point is going to make her decide...
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: How much she loves boxing.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not a matter of if or when.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Turhan, unless she knocks out Turhan, which Tokers,
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: there's a chance Bumgarner knocks out Turhan because she's going to be wide open
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: and swinging.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But for Bumgarner to do that, she has to punch with Turhan.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the thing I'm curious about.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is she going to punch with her?
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or is she going to wait and just try to be methodical?
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if she's methodical, how focused is she going to be in the second half?
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's my boring rant.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think you could be right.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not an expert, but from what I've seen, I think that's possible.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me add to this, right?
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been very high on Turhan.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I named her the Women's Boxing of the Year because she had three upset wins.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_00: This year couldn't have gone any worse for her.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_00: She has a split decision against Tayla Jensen, which a lot of people thought, like, what gives?
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was people were writing down KO before the fight.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then she fights Sosa Gabriela Telliz.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's another fight some people think she lost.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I also feel like having two bad performances helped make this fight happen.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: If she was rolling into this with a bunch of knockouts, I don't think this fight happens.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's kind of hitting a downswing in her career.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Bumgarner, I don't know.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's having moments of looking good, but Bumgarner doesn't really strike me as like phenomenal.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's more personality-driven, and she's a good interview,
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_00: and she's out in front of the cameras, and she's built a great following,
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't fully see her as, I don't know, Gabriela Fendora or Ellie Scottney.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't possess those traits of those fighters.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get what you mean.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I get what you mean.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's...
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_01: The thing...
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I find really, really sort of weird with women's, not necessarily weird,
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_01: but it's like, there's this whole new element, just generally,
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: where title fights is like, sort of,
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: you have to try and work out 3-10s, 3-12,
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_01: 12-3s, 10-3s, 10-2s, 12-2s, like, what favors who, and that sort of thing,
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_01: and it's just,
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: The three-minute point, that could be... That's an interesting point, the three-minute point.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_01: The three tens rather than two...
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, the ten threes rather than ten twos.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of...
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_01: You see it a lot with the amateurs when they step up from two-minute rounds
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: to three-minute rounds.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just from personal experience, it's not nice having to do an extra minute when you're spent.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But, yeah, it's...
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I like what Drake Paul's doing with that.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have an article coming out this week about Alicia Bumgarner
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_00: in three-minute rounds to two-minute rounds so people can look forward
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_00: to that on The Good Fight. That is Tokers.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: In the comments, they're saying, who's this guy that sounds like Sean Connery?
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is Tokers.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_00: He is one of the greatest boxing minds in all of boxing.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, he's probably going to get picked up in the industry
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: because of his knowledge and extensive ability to see the sport for what it is.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Tokers, how can people support you in all the endeavors that you do?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_01: If I do stuff, it will be on my Twitter.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's there or X, that's below my left shoulder.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll post everything I do on there.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I appreciate your kind words.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always love coming on him, and it's always fun, even though we always go overschedule.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we go overschedule.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: No big nasty talk, because we didn't want to make it an hour.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: You want to get the big nasty on the way out.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's deep waters.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we got to do the shtick.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Big nasty is taking on Paul Gallon.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's such I mean, it's such a big fight, you know, everyone's covering it.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, we don't need to talk about it because it's a big thing.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know the thing I like about Big Nasty is in an era where, like,
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_00: all these guys are having trouble making fights,
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Big Nasty is legitimately wearing trunks that say Big Apples or something.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's making basically 50-50 fights for his skill set.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_00: If he wins, he's got the next opponent in line.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I'm calling you out.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, for some reason,
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_00: a limited puncher who came from rugby is vastly more interesting to me
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_00: than superstar boxing.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it doesn't make sense, but doesn't that kind of tell you where boxing's at?
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_00: That a guy who's not that talented,
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_00: but just has some charisma and there's something like,
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm taking the guy into deep waters in a four-round fight.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're wrong here. It's five-round fight this time.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's even deeper waters.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_00: There are even deeper waters this time.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think when you get in the ring with him and the water's there,
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_00: it just changes to black because of the abyss below?
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the waters get too deep too quick.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Paul Gallant, for those that don't know, is a 45 version of Big Nasty.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's, I believe, a former rugby player.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not in doubt Lucas Brown.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the amazing thing about Paul Gunn.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_01: He ironed out Lucas Brown in a round.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's going on?
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I am in on this card.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am in on some Callum Peters, you know, not using a jab and walking to a guy,
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_00: and it's going to shock people when he just gets knocked out randomly in a fight,
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_00: which I think, hot take, I did film study on Callum Peters' fight,
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a competitive fight.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen the opponent, he knocked out the kid in Turkey.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sena Unar or something.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was over in the UK for a little bit as well.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That Turkish kid that he knocked out.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's Colombian kick and punch.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he can turn.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's two things he can do.
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_00: He can punch and he can pivot off an angle.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that sounds silly to say with an Olympic level boxer,
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_00: but it's Callum Peters is he's knocking on the front door and then he's kicking down
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_00: the door. That's his fighting style.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, You know, I think people overrate the Joe Sean James win
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_00: because Joe Sean took that fight on short notice.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, man. I like Peter's style, but in terms of, okay, let's go sick.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're going sick, bro.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of Australian boxing prospects, I'm a bigger Max McIntyre fan.
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then I am a Callum Peters fan.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I see a ton more potential with Max than I do with Callum Peters.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think Peters is going to be fun,
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: but he's kind of in that Tim Zoo mold of he's going to hit a level,
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_00: take a ton of damage, and people are going to be shocked that he's taken a ton
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: of damage.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fair.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel smart when Tokers agrees with me.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Any thoughts on Big Nasty Paul Gallen?
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously for the people that make it this far,
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_00: either on the live or the replay telecast,
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_00: they want the Toker's opinion on Big Nasty Paul Gallen.
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um... You know,
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_01: people talk about the heavyweight fights...
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_01: That means something.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we can leave sort of Joshua and Fury for now
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_01: because we've got Estrani's version this week.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I got a hot take.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_00: If Big Nasty fought Joshua, would you feel comfortable Joshua doesn't get dropped?
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, would you feel really comfortable that...
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Joshua probably knocks him out.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel 100% if you were going to place a bet that Joshua doesn't hit the deck?
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_01: We need Big Nasty against Johnny Fisher if Big Nasty gets through this week.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_01: We need Big Nasty against Johnny Fisher.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what boxing needs to say.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_01: At the Copper Box Arena?
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Where's Alan Babich at the moment?
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he probably waiting in the crowd to face the winner for a call out.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's sitting with ringside watching intently.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the type of matchmaking I want.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, look, I'm really high on Terramona Jr.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he's a really, really good fighter to me.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_00: He resembles George Foreman. People can laugh.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the first time I saw him, he resembles a George Foreman type fighter.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, like.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Big Nasty's career so far is more interesting than Taramona
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_00: because Taramona's just been in with guys that he's just physically more dominant
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_00: than. He's got more physical attributes and such.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Taramona's running the risk, as silly as it sounds,
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_00: is like Big Nasty's hitting the feel spot at least
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: where he's like taking goofy fights.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Taramona, I feel like everyone's like, okay, Taramona's going to win.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the public perception, at least in America, is kind of like, okay,
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_00: he's fighting guys that he knows he can win.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is this guy even good?
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a world where Big Nasty might kind of have some traction more than Terramona?
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely. Definitely.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's an NRL player.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_01: The NRL, which is the Australian-New Zealand rugby league competition,
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: is the most valuable rugby league competition in the world.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_01: He was a starter in very successful teams in that.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the big name...
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's sort of weird because it's sort of like, I don't know,
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_01: if a NFL
• 1:24:35
  SPEAKER_01: player was dropped
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_01: into a heavyweight ring
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_01: and was knocking out other NFL players.
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And funny, and kind of quirky and funny,
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_00: and he had the next guy on deck right after the fight.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want you, brother.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that sort of thing.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_01: That would do well in America.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a different sort of thing, but J-Paul has managed it.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's the sort of thing, isn't it?
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's what the general public want to be interested in.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, he's not sort of...
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe we're doing this, but...
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's not fighting guys that don't make any sense.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever heard of their terrible and he's just going to roll over.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's fighting another NRL player who's boxed before.
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that makes sense.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's like Jake Paul.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Terra Morona is like, well, he's fighting some random kid who's been dug up
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_01: from Eastern Europe who's going to get blasted out in 30 seconds and he's going
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_01: to do it again next month.
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's the point?
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's obvious he's better,
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_01: but how does he build interest through fighting guys that are, you know,
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_01: somewhat meaningful?
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to end on that note because it doesn't get better than that.
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_00: We are done with the live stream.
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is our big nasty rant.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Tokers, you are the best.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, my man. I really enjoyed it.