Latest / Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast / Unpacking the Pressure: Black Men, Mental Health & the Power of Healing | Mario Broussard II, LCSW-C

Transcript

Unpacking the Pressure: Black Men, Mental Health & the Power of Healing | Mario Broussard II, LCSW-C · Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast

0:16
Good morning, good morning. Welcome to Rise and Thrive with
0:20
Doctor J Nicole, where we are rising in faith and thriving in
0:23
purpose. And today we are going to be
0:25
talking about something that's super important to all of us and
0:30
it's always going to need to be explored and unpacked.
0:34
And that is the experience of black men and mental health.
0:38
Today I am joined by my Howard brother.
0:41
He's the son of Howard. We first met as students in the
0:44
MSW program. You know, it's we, it's our 10
0:47
year anniversary, you know that like from when we started
0:50
graduation. So I've known you for 12 years
0:53
and it's our 10 year this year. So hopefully you make it back
0:56
for homecoming this year because we're trying to like get folks
0:59
together. But we are joined by Mario
1:01
Broussard, the second LCSW. He is a licensed therapist in
1:05
Maryland and Ohio. He is the founder and owner of
1:09
Fresh Start Counseling. And I just remember when we met,
1:13
you were always just like a good energy of bright light in the
1:16
program. And so I'm happy that you're
1:18
here with me today to be able to talk about such an important
1:21
topic. And so today's episode is called
1:24
Unpacking the Pressure, Black men, mental health and the power
1:28
of healing. And so today, Mario is going to
1:32
help me unpack this, right? And we're going to have an
1:35
unfiltered conversation about mental health, emotional
1:38
freedom, and the unique healing journey of Black men.
1:42
And as a clinician, a father, and a man of faith, Mario is
1:47
going to open up about his personal story as well as give
1:50
us some professional insight and what it truly takes for black
1:55
men to stop surviving and to start thriving mentally,
1:59
emotionally, and spiritually. So let's go ahead and just
2:03
welcome you to the show. Thank you so much for being
2:05
here. Doc, it is so good to be here
2:09
with you. Thank you so much for sharing
2:11
your platform and giving me this opportunity.
2:13
I'm excited about this topic, passionate about, but I'm so
2:18
glad that we have outlets and specifically this one to be able
2:23
to accommodate us talking on this most important topic.
2:27
So thank you so much for having me.
2:28
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So this is good and I'm glad you
2:32
accepted the invitation. So like, you know, God just
2:35
works and moves right. Like like I said, we've known
2:37
each other for 12 years and I'm just scrolling one day and I saw
2:41
something I was like I need to have Mario on.
2:43
We got to talk about it, and so thank you for finding quickly
2:47
and following up promptly so that we could get you in the
2:50
studio here. So, Mario, as a therapist, what
2:54
common internal struggles do you see in black men that often go
2:59
unspoken? Yeah, you know, there's there's
3:01
three that come to mind. Fatigue is one of them.
3:07
Listen, I've seen it manifest in my own life, but when a lot of
3:11
my black male clients show up to our sessions, when there is some
3:16
trepidation about coming into and experiencing therapy for the
3:19
first time, when we get past that part and I see the guard
3:23
kind of come down, I then see the evidences of fatigue.
3:28
It's almost like been running, been surviving and this is
3:35
actually a real safe space. So I see you get to see that
3:40
fatigue manifest, but then also kind of the guard come down.
3:44
The second one that I see is grief.
3:48
We are experiencing lawsuits in several on several levels, all
3:53
of us black men. It's just we're often silent
3:59
about all the levels and layers of grief that we're
4:04
experiencing. And then there is anger.
4:10
Oh yeah, that's the one I think we see the most, or at least
4:13
most. Notable, yeah, anger and and I
4:17
think the fatigue happens because there's so much time
4:21
spent trying to suppress and squelch the anger so that it
4:26
doesn't manifest in the wrong spaces.
4:28
So there's, there's just so much there.
4:30
Yeah, you're so right. And I talk with clients all the
4:33
time about not that internal battle.
4:34
And I'm like, you're exhausted before you even come out here
4:38
out into the world and engage with the world.
4:41
You're exhausted from yourself, that internal fight.
4:43
So I heard you say almost like you can look and see when you
4:47
can tell that they've, like, unpacked or put the burdens
4:51
down. Yeah, Yeah.
4:52
Like, what does that look like with that moment when you can
4:55
say, OK, barriers are down, guards are down.
4:58
What does that look like? Yeah, it, it usually comes from,
5:03
I guess a mutual self disclosure, right?
5:06
So they might just open up. So I'll, I'll give them maybe in
5:09
our first session a brief rundown of who I am, where I'm
5:14
coming from, some of the hats that I wear.
5:17
And even though we're not, it's not always mandatory that we as
5:21
therapists give those types of rundowns like father, husband,
5:25
parent, whatever. I just really, especially with
5:28
my people, with our people, I just go and initiate that,
5:31
right, so that they're able to hopefully level.
5:35
And then their reaction to that is often, man, you know, I
5:39
wasn't going to do this. My wife made me or, or you know,
5:43
I was tired of running or whatever from it.
5:45
And so I'm here and already this is a better experience than I
5:51
had anticipated. So that's where you start seeing
5:54
that wall come down and the, the, the conversation and the
5:59
guidance just begins to flow. And it's just a, it's a
6:02
beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing.
6:04
Yeah, that is, that is. And I love how you're saying
6:08
that you use an appropriate self disclosure who create that safe
6:15
space and build rapport to say, I see you, I've lived.
6:19
I'm not just like this perfect person over here, but like
6:22
because people sometimes need to see themselves and who they are
6:26
going to for support. Most certain, and I'm glad you.
6:29
Can do that. Yeah, Black folk in general, we,
6:32
we got to know that you've lived some life because we come out
6:36
the womb, you know, fighting. Really.
6:39
Right. And so, yeah, yeah.
6:42
Right. And then I do want to ask a
6:43
question because you brought up grief and grief looks different
6:49
per experience, per person. What are some of those markers
6:54
or indicators that let you know that's grief if it's not just
6:58
self disclosure? Yeah.
6:59
So some of those. So first of all, I want to say
7:03
that oftentimes we use anger as the cover up for everything.
7:08
Yes. Uh huh.
7:09
Depression for grief, for fatigue, right?
7:13
And so I don't always see that anger part, but oftentimes, you
7:18
know, when they start, when individuals start kind of
7:20
running down, what brings them to therapy or whatnot.
7:24
Inevitably, it might be the loss of a job, it may be the loss of
7:28
a person, place or thing, right? That may bring tears.
7:34
See, that's what I get to see. Tears in my session from black
7:37
men, right? And I get to see it sometimes.
7:40
First session, yes, 20 minutes in.
7:43
Yes. Right.
7:44
And so now you talk about the person you lost seven years ago
7:49
and you can cry about it like it happened earlier today, apparent
7:54
grief for your or you're speaking angrily about something
7:58
and you're and it's as if it is happening right now.
8:01
There's some PTSD symptoms there, but but that's also
8:06
evidence of grief. And we emote differently as, as
8:10
men, as black men, as black people in general, we emote
8:16
differently for different reasons and in different ways.
8:18
And so it's, it's easier to detect that as a black male
8:23
therapist, you know? That's good.
8:25
And I'm so glad that you can see that and that you're clearly
8:28
able to curate and create this space where that can happen in
8:32
20 minutes. And that's something that I
8:34
always normalize with my clients.
8:37
You going to cry? Do never apologize for crying in
8:40
these sessions. You're going to cry.
8:42
You, you need to cry. And then more recently I've done
8:44
research on, OK, not in depth research, but I looked into it a
8:49
little bit more about like what's in our tears and the
8:51
different chemicals and how it helps because one, we can
8:56
release like cortisol through our tears, right?
8:58
Which is a stress reliever, our tears.
9:01
And don't give me lying about the name of the specific
9:03
chemical, but there's like a opioid that our body naturally
9:06
produces that helps to relieve emotional and physical pain.
9:11
So then we do feel better. And then that might be also
9:14
sometimes why we sleep after because one, we're also
9:16
exhausted, but like there's so much that are built into our
9:19
tears. And just like how we are set up,
9:21
like that's how great God and how intentional God is, is that
9:24
he put a pain reliever in our tears and think about how much
9:28
people don't cry or what they say about crying, right?
9:33
We need it, we need it and it's so good for us.
9:37
And I can share more about that with you later.
9:39
But like really just normalizing crying.
9:42
Like there was like this reality TV person and she she called it
9:46
a crying to her, but she was not a mental health like
9:49
professional, but like I was like, that needs to be brought
9:51
back like seriously, but like with a serious mental health
9:55
focus. So Mario, how has your personal
10:00
story informed your approach to like the European emotional
10:04
healing with those that you work with and support?
10:06
Man, that's loaded my personal story.
10:09
You know, growing up, navigating being a child of a single parent
10:14
home, having access to my father, knowing that my father
10:17
loved me, you know, all of all of that was present, but he
10:21
wasn't in the home. Yeah.
10:23
And then that causes mom to have to work three jobs.
10:27
We're going and cleaning with her on two of the three.
10:31
And so there's not a lot of time to sit and feel, right.
10:38
Yeah. And so coming into adulthood,
10:41
late teenagehood, early adulthood, I realized that I
10:44
needed space to really kind of be able to process some of the
10:48
things that I was going through. And I know that that had to been
10:51
nothing but God, because I didn't really have an example of
10:54
that. But but that opened up a lot of
10:59
questions that I then had to start, you know, asking and
11:04
facing. And this this seems pretty
11:06
vague, but I'm trying to sum up all these these years I'm.
11:09
Awful. Not rushing you bro, I'm
11:10
awesome. Not rushing you.
11:13
But yeah, and so, and then the mentorship that I did have, I
11:17
did, I think God put some great people in my in my path and some
11:22
great friends, yeah, that were going through some of the same
11:26
things. And so we begin to have some of
11:28
those conversations. It wasn't so deep in, you know,
11:32
inspirational in the moment. It might have come out in the
11:35
form of a complaint, man, My, my, my dad, this or my mom can't
11:39
afford to help me with this. And me too, you know, it would
11:44
have been something like that. But we're getting it out.
11:48
You know, we have a healthy community, but then we're also
11:51
processing it in our own space. And so that led me to naturally
11:56
kind of be this way and then to understand that there was a
12:00
profession that allowed me to help others to do that.
12:04
Right, because like I remember just meeting you, you had you
12:08
were present. It's what I say I can remember
12:11
about you. I don't remember if our first
12:13
class was together our first semester or second semester and
12:16
the MSW, but I just remember like you were just like Verizon,
12:19
you were available, you engaged like in class.
12:22
And so that's really important. And I love that you had those
12:25
early experiences because we never really just talked
12:28
personally about background and all of that because like the way
12:31
you presented, I just would have thought you had like a
12:34
traditional home experience and upbringinging.
12:38
So this is great to like just learn more about the insight and
12:42
just like the opportunities in the community that God like, you
12:46
know, exposed you to and allowed you to be a part of, to now turn
12:51
that into healing and be part of it.
12:54
And I'm, you know, I've learned with God like nothing's wasted,
12:57
right? Like nothing.
12:58
He's so intentional. And so like you had to have that
13:02
experience to really understand how important it is and be able
13:06
to use that to say, you know what?
13:08
This is what I need to create for people.
13:11
Yeah. So what helped you realize that
13:15
you didn't have to be like hardened or strong, right?
13:19
Because that easily could have been a reaction like a response
13:22
or like a consequence of it. Like when you talking about like
13:25
the anger that is common in black men I'm.
13:28
Going to go ahead and keep it real.
13:30
Please do. Growing up, you know, he's there
13:33
was, I mean, what we would describe now as homophobia,
13:37
really. OK, so there was here I am.
13:40
I realized that I was not the the typical black male.
13:46
OK, So I do identify as a heterosexual, right?
13:49
So it's not that's not where I'm going with it.
13:51
Where I'm going with it is yes, many of us were raised by our
13:54
mothers. We have we are part of a
13:56
matriarchal society within the black community that manifests
14:01
differently. And oftentimes it manifested for
14:03
a lot of my contemporaries with anger.
14:06
It livid, you know, acting out, you know, being being hard, you
14:11
know, like that's what we have to do right, right.
14:14
So what happened with me is I realized that I wasn't that type
14:18
of person that ain't me. So now I'm asking questions
14:21
like, is something wrong with me that, that I'm able to emote,
14:26
that I'm able to sit with my feelings that, you know, I'm,
14:31
I'm not easily stirred or easily angered.
14:34
And that was a tough Rd. because now back then that was linked
14:40
with like, you know, you're a girly guy.
14:43
You're, you know, something wrong with you or whatever the
14:46
case was right, If we're just keeping it real.
14:48
And so I had to learn how to be secure in the fact that I'm not
14:54
soft. I'm not, I'm not hard, right.
14:57
What I am is I'm healing. Say that That was good, Mario.
15:02
And those around me were struggling with that.
15:06
They didn't make me any better. I didn't make them any worse.
15:09
But I didn't recognize that God was leading me in a very
15:13
intentional path of healing. Because I would have a
15:17
frustration and I might spend time crying about it.
15:20
I might write a poem about it. Expression.
15:24
Unless it was Tupac, you know, or back then, or somebody like
15:28
that in the form of a rap song or something, we're not sitting
15:32
down writing poetry, or at least not publicly.
15:34
Pock was a poet unless also remember Def Poetry Jam.
15:39
All of that stuff came out in the 90s.
15:41
People were expressing, but also what you and I know now because
15:45
also growing up in the 90s, right, like in seeing a lot of
15:48
these things also grew up in the Midwest, right.
15:51
So we were, we, I'm sure we experienced a lot of similar
15:54
things, but like what you're describing, who's considered
15:59
hard were actually the most vulnerable.
16:03
They were the most impulsive. You were, like you said, you
16:06
were healing, but you were healthier because you were
16:09
expressing. And so that is showing more
16:12
control, that is showing more maturity.
16:15
That is actually more masculine that you have more, you had
16:19
space for that to be able to express it and find your sense
16:23
of identity versus them being reactive and out of control.
16:27
But it's something about that anger, right?
16:30
Yeah, that that's masculine. And I want to speak to somebody
16:34
with that, because you hit it on the nail.
16:36
The the harder they seemed, the more vulnerable they were and
16:41
the more impulsive. But the more impulsive leading
16:44
to something even as drastic or as, you know, as negative as
16:49
taking somebody else's life, you know, whatever that continuum of
16:53
anger and expression and impulsivity was, the hot, the
16:57
more drastic the action, the more vulnerable the person
17:01
really was. Because if I'm, if I'm able to
17:04
take your life like this, it's because I don't have any
17:08
bandwidth to, to allow myself to process or feel how I'm really
17:12
feeling because that leaves me open without a plan.
17:16
And so I'm going to shut it down as fast as I can.
17:19
They weren't evil people. Our contemporaries that that
17:21
went down past like that, we're not evil people.
17:24
They were vulnerable and they just had no way of of how to
17:28
express. That no outlets, no coping
17:31
mechanisms, no one's modeling it.
17:33
And this is what it looks like. This is what strength looks
17:36
like. And we also saw.
17:38
I don't know what it looked like.
17:40
Where where in Ohio did you grow up?
17:42
Columbus, OK. And Columbus.
17:44
Yeah. So like Columbus, I don't like
17:46
what were the like rates for being locked up, going to jail,
17:51
ju go people going to juvie, you know what I mean?
17:54
Like was that a high occurrence? They were.
17:57
They were in line with whatever the national average was.
18:00
OK, Yeah. Columbus, you know, cut had its
18:04
pockets of suburbs and things like that where, you know, where
18:07
you may be able to escape. But I actually didn't grow up in
18:11
any of that. We had a we had a decent house,
18:14
but we sat right there in the middle of all of it.
18:18
And so anybody could get it any day you could find yourself.
18:22
In fact, one of the ways that I know I was able to escape one of
18:25
those statistical like, you know, lifestyles is that I did
18:31
go to to work with my mom after school that three to seven
18:36
window. And especially in those winter
18:40
months when it get dark early. Yeah, because mom is working.
18:43
Nobody's at home. She don't know what you're
18:45
doing. Wasn't cell phones like that?
18:47
We were lash key kids. That's right.
18:50
So, so if so, she had us with her primarily because she needed
18:54
the help. But I I know that God was like,
18:56
no, let me, let me, let me. I think your mom was both
19:00
because then she knew she didn't have to worry about y'all.
19:03
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
19:05
So I love this. So like, you know, what we're
19:08
talking about too is like that emotional suppression in black
19:11
men and how is rooted in like early conditioning, right.
19:17
And also let's talk about like some of the other implications
19:20
like that can lead to chronic stress, isolation and also
19:24
issues with like anchor mismanagement.
19:27
And just like what? Like what does that look like
19:30
when you think about your clients that come to you in
19:33
therapy? Yeah, it it definitely, You see
19:35
the manifestation of all of that.
19:37
And a lot of my clients have found a way to do pretty well
19:43
for themselves. But when they get to me, they're
19:47
having a hard time maintaining it because they're unraveling
19:52
emotionally. They're unraveling, you know,
19:54
mentally because they're code switching, right?
19:58
Because they're subscribing to traditional views of male men.
20:03
And masculinity, so, you know, my family can't know that I,
20:07
that we can't pay this bill, right?
20:10
Or that I was up for promotion and I'm, and it looks like I've
20:13
been skipped over, right? And so now they're unraveling
20:19
and then, and now the family is starting to pay for it with the
20:23
attitude, the behavior, how they precede and, and things like
20:27
that. And and then those we talked
20:29
about cortisol, those stress levels are up mixed with poor
20:33
diet and substance use. And now we have, you know, we're
20:39
we're in a bind and that all is happening simply because there's
20:42
no safe space. Yeah.
20:44
Man, so how do you talk with your clients about creating a
20:47
safe space, about having those honest conversations and to be
20:51
able to like emit those limitations with their loved
20:55
ones, with their partners? Yeah, a lot of times it comes
20:59
out very organically. It's really interesting.
21:02
One of the things that I'm learning is sheer by the the
21:06
sheer act of disclosing how you're feeling.
21:09
I'm not talking about me, maybe my clients, but but with my
21:13
clients, when they begin to learn how to disclose how
21:17
they're feeling in therapy, it, it becomes a lot more organic
21:21
for them to do it with their spouses.
21:24
And what I love about it is I can stop them and say, man, you
21:28
are, you are doing some great work right here.
21:31
And then I can say now when you go to try to translate this to
21:35
your spouse, you may or may not get the type of reaction that
21:40
you desire, but your goal here is just to get it out.
21:45
And the way that I'm helping set ground for you to do that, you
21:49
can set ground for your spouse by saying, I got some hard stuff
21:53
to say. I've been pulling it in.
21:55
I just need to get it out. And I don't know what I expect
21:58
for you to do with it right now, But I was able to do this in
22:02
therapy. I need to do it with you or
22:03
whatever the dynamic is. And that it starts to happen
22:07
organically within a session and it starts to translate like that
22:11
into real life. Yeah.
22:12
So what I'm hearing you say is that just the act of coming to
22:17
therapy helps to normalize that expression, that self disclosure
22:22
and to normalize vulnerability and that like an interpersonal
22:27
communication and effectiveness like that expression.
22:30
Most certainly. Most certainly.
22:31
That's beautiful, and being able to create that space for them is
22:34
really, really important. Man, it's a it's a blessing
22:38
every single time. I love it.
22:40
It's almost like a training ground.
22:42
Yes, it is it really. Is, yeah, yeah.
22:46
And it's almost a utopian experience for a lot of people
22:50
because it's like, there's there's no other place here that
22:54
I'm able to do this like this. Yeah.
22:57
You know, And so I'm grateful to be able to, to create those
23:01
spaces. Yeah.
23:03
So if you don't mind, right, like what led you to pursue like
23:08
therapy and mental health personally and professionally?
23:12
You spoke about it a little bit, but like, you know, there's it.
23:15
It goes deeper to decide I'm going to go to school, pay this
23:18
tuition and do these two years like it.
23:21
You know, there's more that's to it.
23:23
Yeah, no. So on a, on a very surface
23:26
level, because I feel like I'm an extrovert, but there's a lot
23:29
of introvertedness to me as well, which leads to really just
23:33
me being kind of a quiet individual from time to time.
23:37
And I noticed throughout my entire life, whenever I would be
23:41
to myself in a public space, people would just start to come
23:45
up and tell me their life story or ask my advice about some
23:50
serious topic in their life, you know, And then, and so I think
23:54
one day I was, it was I was young.
23:57
I saw Doctor Phil on on TV and he I'm like this guy gets paid
24:03
to do. This yes, he does.
24:05
On the playground. You know, like so on a surface.
24:08
Level playground Mario, you were back on the playground.
24:12
Playground. Like 7-8, nine years old, you
24:15
know? Because I was, I was a peer
24:17
mediator elementary school. You're right, you're right.
24:21
It finds you, you know, they find you.
24:24
And so I'm like, so then I, that caused me to just begin to dream
24:28
about wow. I can actually make a living
24:32
guiding, helping guide people like and and it always felt
24:36
amazing for somebody to come back to me and say, I really
24:39
appreciate it wasn't always solving a problem.
24:42
It was more so like in their own ways, telling me, thanks for
24:46
listening without judging me right.
24:48
And so that helped right there. Here's another one.
24:51
The ability in my own life experience to be able to go
24:56
through difficult things, process them without much help
25:02
from anyone and process them and then come out on the other side
25:07
better than I was when I went through it.
25:10
So I've got to attribute that to God, you know, like raising me.
25:14
He, he took over a parental role.
25:17
It's helped guide me through this.
25:20
But noticing, looking around and seeing not everybody's able to
25:24
do that. Yeah.
25:27
And so there must be something here to to this must be one of
25:32
my gifts. Yes, exactly.
25:34
Yeah, it's gift and calling, right?
25:36
Because when you think about the spiritual gifts, this work that
25:40
you and I do, it's included in that, right.
25:43
But then also like you're saying to it, it being a calling
25:47
because everybody's not equipped.
25:48
And like you said, the people, it just happened organically and
25:52
you just think that you're being you.
25:53
And then like you said, and it's funny that you mentioned Doctor
25:55
Phil, one of my cousins, I can't remember, we had to be like
26:00
early teens. And her, her then boyfriend, he
26:03
is her husband now. But he was like, oh, you gonna
26:05
talk that call, Doctor Phil talking about me.
26:09
Well, the Doctor Pill reference definitely resonates in a
26:13
different way. So Mario, talk to me about like
26:17
what generational messages did you have to really like confront
26:23
to do your own healing and also maybe what you see in the work
26:27
with your clients? One of those messages that I had
26:30
to confront was the presence in my generational line of
26:35
ignorance. OK, now that's real broad, but I
26:38
know you're going to break it down.
26:40
Break it down. So specifically contending with
26:44
why my father was not able to be present and mentor me through
26:50
life the way I felt like he should.
26:52
So I'll give you an example. One time we were living in
26:55
Maryland and Silver Spring area. We had a town home that we are
26:59
renting out and something needed to be fixed.
27:02
Yeah, and we were going to have to help pay for it or whatever
27:06
the case was, but I felt like, man, if I could fix this, then
27:10
we wouldn't have to go this more expensive route and wouldn't
27:13
even have to talk to the landlord about it or whatever
27:16
the case was. So the thought of me being able
27:19
to fix it, I knew at that point in time I didn't know how to fix
27:22
it. So I, I'm saying in my head, I
27:25
was thinking in my head, man, I wish that growing up I would
27:29
have had a dad taught me how to fix things so that I could solve
27:35
this problem, right? Once again, feeling inadequate
27:38
because I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm a man.
27:40
Men are supposed to know how to fix.
27:42
You were a child though. Yeah, right, right.
27:45
So. So before I could even get the
27:47
entire thought out, I feel like God interrupted in my spirit and
27:51
said, well, your dad didn't know how to do that, so how was he
27:57
going to teach you? Which led to the thought process
28:01
that I think helped save my entire life perspective, which
28:05
is it was always going to be this way for me.
28:09
It was never going to be different from how my life
28:13
outcome had happened to that point, which could be a bit
28:18
depressing for some, but the way God gives things to you, it was
28:22
like, it's not your fault and it's not your dad's fault, and
28:27
it's probably not his dad's fault either.
28:30
And I got you. Yes, yes, that you, who you are
28:37
and what you give or can offer to the world, to your home, to
28:41
your community is exactly what I always wanted you to do, to
28:47
offer, to be who I wanted you to be.
28:49
So you're not lacking because you don't know how to fix,
28:52
because you have everything you need to be who I've called you
28:55
to and think that. That type of fixing you do a
28:58
different fixing. Yes, yes.
29:02
And I want to speak to a a black man right now who doesn't know
29:07
how to do something. And when he thinks of passing
29:10
whatever he's going to pass on to his children, Yeah, you don't
29:13
know how to do. You're not equipped to do this.
29:16
But there are some things that you're definitely equipped to
29:18
do. I love people.
29:20
My son will not learn how to fix cars by me, most likely.
29:24
We can experiment. And we have a different
29:27
generation we could pay the people to fix it where before we
29:30
had to know how to do everything.
29:31
We don't know. We don't have to do that.
29:33
And I think you are at that point in A and even maybe your
29:37
father and a generation where that started to change.
29:40
You don't have to know how to do everything anymore.
29:45
I, I can what, what I can pass down to my son is how to, to
29:50
deal with people, how to treat people, how to read people
29:55
right, how to inspire people. You know, I can pass that down.
30:00
And that's all God ever wanted me to do.
30:03
That's who he made me to be. So that was so freeing that day
30:09
to understand it was always meant to be this way, that the.
30:16
And so that that ignorance of who I am, the ignorance of what
30:21
we do or do not know is, is not something that God is pinning us
30:26
for not knowing. Society might have its thought
30:29
about it, but God always has a plan.
30:32
You are who you're supposed to be, and you offer to the world
30:37
what he intended and ordained for you to offer.
30:39
Yeah. That's so it's been so free,
30:42
Mario, that's so good. And you have just set somebody
30:46
free with that. And it also speaks to how being
30:50
a man is and being a black man is not a monolithic experience.
30:54
It's not the same for everyone. We all have our purpose and God
30:58
has a plan for all of us. We all have our divine
31:01
assignments here on earth. And if we are busy comparing and
31:05
trying to be what everyone else is, we're robbing the world of
31:09
that special some kind of that God has put in each and every
31:14
one of us. So let's talk a little bit about
31:16
how therapy can help black men to be more present in their
31:21
relationships and in their communities.
31:23
Yeah. Yeah.
31:24
So I think, I think we kind of touched on that in that another
31:29
addendum, another thing that you get when you come into therapy
31:32
is you get the practice of what it means, what it looks like to
31:36
be present, right? And even though the therapeutic
31:40
relationship is its own different dynamic, you are once
31:44
again practicing how to identify a safe space or a safe person,
31:50
right? You are also able to experience
31:53
what happens when someone is able to respond back to you
31:58
without judgment or bias, right? You know, and so you're, this is
32:02
an incubation, you know, of sorts, because in this, there's
32:07
a development, there's a rewiring happening, you know,
32:12
resetting that is taking place because you're, you're now
32:15
experiencing, oh man, you know, this, this person on the other
32:19
end is able to relate even though they didn't experience
32:23
that same thing. So it takes away a lot of our
32:25
preconceived notions that I can't talk to them because they
32:28
don't know what I'm going through, you know, like, and
32:31
then it helps you identify how to show up in those spaces and
32:35
who to give that type of energy to.
32:40
Oh, this is so rich. And you know, as I'm thinking
32:43
here about just like different scriptures, the things that
32:46
apply Proverbs 11/14 comes to mind.
32:51
And you know, sometimes depending on our life
32:52
experiences, like the scripture can literally apply.
32:55
And then sometimes, you know, we got to kind of like interpret
32:58
it, right? But like that says where there
33:00
is no guidance, a people fit or excuse me, a people fall, but in
33:05
an abundance of counselors, there is safety, right?
33:08
So this gets to what you're talking about with your father
33:12
didn't know to teach you, but then also the importance of
33:16
like, you know, also seeking wise counsel that there is
33:19
safety in that and being able to find those spaces and to be able
33:23
to like normalize coming into therapy, right?
33:28
Like, and I'm a firm believer of like God in therapy, right?
33:31
Like because people just be like, well, God or Jesus is my
33:34
counselor and God is definitely put people like yourself and me
33:39
in place to be able to be there to like help, right, to be like
33:44
the professional dish that's trained in the other way,
33:47
understand the beliefs and really just support folks
33:50
because breaking cycles. It really does require the
33:54
acknowledgement of our lived experiences of grief and being
33:58
able how to let that go. Because if no one's taught you
34:01
that you don't have to carry it all.
34:03
And yes, we can always talk to God about things, and he has you
34:07
and I here too, to be able to give people skills, skills on
34:10
how to be able to do that. And sometimes, Mario, we even
34:14
have to repair it ourselves. Yeah, Most certainly.
34:17
And you're talking about this, this we talked about re
34:22
rewiring, we talked we're talking about undoing, right.
34:27
And, and, and what I tell a lot of my clients is it took a
34:32
community of people, whether it was positive or negative, to
34:36
help shape you in the ways in which you're trying to undo.
34:41
It's going to take a community of people to help you undo what
34:46
has been done. I tell people all the time, if
34:49
God wanted us to, to do things and live in a vacuum, you
34:53
certainly wouldn't put us on the planet with 8 billion people on
34:56
it. The implication alone is that we
34:59
need each other. And so us trying to do life in a
35:02
silo isn't practical. There's there's almost nothing
35:05
on the planet that lives that way.
35:08
And so in order to read, to undo we, we need a community to do.
35:14
Yeah. And I, I, I use similar
35:17
language, right? We have to unlearn and relearn.
35:20
So I love it. So you need a safe space to
35:22
unlearn and a safe space to relearn because we got to
35:26
replace, right? Because a lot of times what
35:28
happens is that we remove things, then it's just empty.
35:31
And if we don't put something healthy in, we're going to go
35:35
back to our old habits because we've not given them.
35:38
So like when we remove, we have to replace it with something
35:41
healthy. So there's not a gap that's
35:43
there. That's right, yeah.
35:45
There's another scripture in James.
35:47
OK. I think it's chapter 1, but it's
35:51
talking about temptation. But it presents an imagery there
35:55
that I think is relevant to what we're talking about.
35:57
And it says we are tempted when we are drawn away and given over
36:03
to it says to our evil desires, right?
36:06
But that the picture there that it paints is one of a predator
36:12
singling out it's prey. OK.
36:15
And so you have this imagery there of maybe a lion perhaps
36:20
seeing a herd of bison or whatnot and finding one and
36:26
helping, you know, creating an atmosphere where they're singled
36:28
out so that then they are now attacked because they don't have
36:32
community, right? That's good.
36:34
See that in that, in that text there that anytime we fall to
36:38
ourselves, it would anytime we're not showing up as our best
36:41
selves in this process. It's oftentimes because we are
36:45
siloing ourselves and we're not taking advantage of that
36:49
community that would help steer us to, to unlearn and relearn.
36:54
And so I'm, I'm a huge advocate, you know, of, of finding that
36:59
community and, or creating that community through the
37:03
therapeutic experience. Yeah.
37:06
I love how you use the bison in that example and it work.
37:09
I hate you, Yeah. Right.
37:12
And I, I also heard in there about like, you know, sometimes
37:15
the dangers of isolation. Yeah, we need to be in community
37:19
and we are designed, we're wired for connection, like you said.
37:23
Let's talk a little bit about your relationship with God and
37:27
what that looks like and your healing.
37:30
Also what you've seen with your clients and though their
37:33
relationship with God and how that's been a part of their
37:35
healing process. Yeah.
37:36
So you know, my practice is is is not a, is not advertised as a
37:43
Christian practice. And so I'm.
37:44
Never plug plug your practice again.
37:46
Fresh start counseling. OK.
37:49
And so and so at Fresh Start, where I don't really advertise
37:53
as such, but when someone opens that door and starts talking
37:56
faith, they give me permission to talk faith with them.
37:59
Now we now, now we get to institute it.
38:01
Yeah. And my experience, I really
38:04
believe, and I said it earlier, that I feel like God just took
38:07
over as the parenting. And I feel like I have been LED
38:12
this entire way by him very intentionally.
38:15
And then I hear from him in prayer, Right.
38:18
And and study of the word, but he shows up in in any and
38:24
everything. He'll show up in a rap song,
38:26
he'll show up in a pop song. You know, the revelation will
38:29
come through anything. And I love how he does that.
38:31
He meets you. This is the essence of social
38:33
work, right? He meets you where you're at.
38:37
Yeah. And I love that.
38:38
And I just want to encourage somebody who's, you know,
38:41
listening like you don't have to go find God.
38:44
You. All you need to do is allow him
38:45
to sit with you, meet you exactly where you are.
38:49
And that is kind of the mitochondria of how I operate.
38:52
Professional. Yeah, and that's, and so my, I
38:56
tell people in you know, who struggle with whether or not
39:00
they should go to therapy or not and they are believers said if
39:03
one of the components of prayer is not not just you speaking,
39:07
but also you learning how to be silent so that God can respond.
39:13
And when you have that dual component there of not just you
39:17
speaking, but also having an atmosphere where you can listen,
39:20
he's going to lead you may not you may not hear audible voices
39:24
says go to therapy, right? But he's going to lead you to
39:27
places of healing. Psalm 23 says he leads me
39:31
besides still waters, right? And as sheep, he knows that
39:35
sheep do not know how to drink. They will not drink with moving
39:40
water because it startles them because they are prey.
39:44
So they're anxious. They're very I.
39:46
Didn't know that part about the water.
39:48
Yeah. So he leads you besides still
39:51
waters. In other words, whatever your
39:53
circumstances is, whatever your background, wherever you're
39:56
coming from, whatever you're going through, the shepherd will
39:59
make sure that he leads you to a path that allows you to heal for
40:04
you to rest right. And so now you're trying to
40:07
figure out what does that look like anyone in your life that
40:10
doesn't allow you to rest anything in your life that does
40:13
not produce healing. You know, any place that that or
40:17
peace right now you're identifying.
40:20
And so I love that about God, is that He will.
40:24
Lead you through your prayer, through your time, through your
40:27
community. He will lead you to those, to
40:30
those places that you need to to be rejuvenate.
40:34
Yeah. So good because I don't know if
40:36
I forget what exactly it says in the scripture leading up to it
40:39
in his other places where it says like the sheep know their
40:43
shepherd's voice, right? And then also shepherds know the
40:47
sounds of their sheep with the relationship with God and that
40:52
we hear him and he hears us that it is two ways.
40:58
And you're right, it's not always audible.
41:01
It's a it's a thing like we feel the urge, the nudge.
41:04
And when you are quiet, when you're in the silence, like
41:08
you're saying, like you can feel that you can hear, you can catch
41:11
that down low. Right.
41:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that that's one of one
41:17
of the things that we're missing in general in society is just
41:21
the promotion or the creating the space where we we are able
41:25
to be quiet. So much can happen.
41:27
And I know why we're not, right? Because when we're quiet, we
41:31
have to contend with those thoughts, right?
41:33
We have to, we have whatever our issues are face to face and we
41:37
have to hear from them, right? But it's that's when, that's
41:42
when the healing really starts. But that's also Right.
41:45
Exactly. That's it.
41:46
And you know, Mario, something that I've been experiencing for
41:49
years and I really just got like context to it, like all the
41:55
years where I was waking up before the sunrise.
42:00
That's that sacred time with God.
42:03
Yeah. So like, you know, like, because
42:05
I would always be like nothing's happening.
42:07
Why I, I would force myself to go back to sleep, not embracing.
42:12
If I'm being awakened, it's by a it's for a reason and not
42:17
understanding that that was a divine awakening that God was
42:20
trying to awake me from a spiritual slumber to here.
42:24
Because what happens when you're being awakened like between like
42:28
3 and 5 or whatever, between the before the sun is up, it's
42:32
quiet. There's no one to distract you.
42:35
There's nothing to disrupt you. Back in the day, the TV would
42:38
just be fuzz or the lines on the TV or nothing.
42:42
You had nothing but quiet, right?
42:44
And so like that is, is such an important time to really be able
42:48
to do that, but also to get clarity because he wants to talk
42:52
with us. He wants to be in relationship
42:55
with us. And I think those times when
42:56
we're being awakened at these odd hours of the night, you
43:00
know, that people talk about, that's a divine invitation.
43:04
God is inviting you to a private party.
43:06
That's it. That's right.
43:08
That's right. And and we have the opportunity
43:11
to connect with him during those times and it is it's amazing
43:14
some of the things that can happen and as a result of it.
43:16
So most certainly. Man, OK, So what does it look
43:22
like to like make room for prayer for yourself as well as
43:26
like so you said you don't advertise your services as like
43:31
Christian faith LED spiritually based, but like So what does
43:36
that look like in your life and as well as unlike in community
43:40
to help with healing? So, so most certainly when
43:43
someone reveals that that that's the type of path that they're
43:47
on. I have engaged in prayer with my
43:50
clients before at the end of a session, but really just meeting
43:54
them wherever they are spiritually and encouraging
43:58
their, you know, their practices or, or what or what not.
44:02
And a lot, there's a lot of shame surrounding religion, you
44:06
know, and there's a lot of trauma surrounding religion.
44:09
And so some of the work that I love to do when someone opens
44:13
that part of them up to me is really trying to explore some of
44:17
the shoulds that they feel heavy the, the shame and the burden of
44:22
should, you know, I should be going back to church.
44:25
I should, you know, whatever the case is, and just being able to
44:29
help free them in that place to where they're seeing their
44:33
belief system as a tool of healing, as a tool of peace, as
44:38
a tool of sanctuary, you know, and not a burden, you know?
44:42
And so, yeah. So that that we do, I do a lot
44:45
of work around religious trauma and healing and things like
44:49
that. Yeah.
44:49
You know, this has been my, I love that number 1 and I hear
44:54
you delicately approach approach faith, spirituality and religion
45:00
and practice, right? And I want to empower you.
45:05
Maybe I think that's the word I want to use because this is your
45:09
practice. So if you want to outwardly
45:12
offer it, you can include it in your intake process.
45:15
And maybe you do to ask a question or two.
45:19
What are your spiritual faith beliefs like?
45:21
Do you have them? What is it?
45:23
Would you like it included in the experience?
45:27
Because I definitely, because of course, you know, they always
45:30
told us how at least in our years, right?
45:32
Like we should all go to therapy too.
45:34
I intentionally sought out. I was, well, when we were in
45:37
school, I started, I went into a season of grief.
45:40
That was the beginning of a season of grief for me.
45:42
And it went on for many, many, many, many, many years, like a
45:45
good 5-6 years. Every year I lost at least one
45:49
person, multiple people or someone got cancer, right?
45:52
So I was dealing with a lot and while we were in school and many
45:55
years after and I intentionally called out of faith-based
45:59
practice. I loved it because then we could
46:02
just openly talk about everything and it gave I feel
46:06
like the therapist, the openness to be able to say things to me.
46:10
Wow, God, the way God be leading you and you don't even be
46:13
attention, Father, for never taking your hands off of me.
46:18
But to say that you can do the same, right?
46:21
Like you can offer that because when we, we, we're starting out,
46:23
we're used to operating by other people's rules, but it's not by
46:27
mistake at all that you are who you are and your beliefs and
46:30
that you can offer that and it's you the boss.
46:32
Well, he the boss, he your boss now operating of freedom.
46:37
Yeah. No, I appreciate that.
46:39
Yeah, I appreciate that. That affirmation and
46:42
admonishment, you know, I do have it in my intake process and
46:47
I often allow, you know, them to to initiate it.
46:51
But but please believe when they do we in there.
46:55
But yeah, no, you're right. And it just is often a very
46:59
enriching time because we are spiritual beings, you know?
47:04
And really, I believe everything happens in the spirit realm and
47:08
it just manifests itself in the physical.
47:10
Realm. And that's.
47:11
Why with my practice, my tagline is where mind, body and spirit
47:16
align because we, we are all of those things and like therapy
47:21
and like religion, theology, faith, however you want to refer
47:24
to it, people think it has to be a orb when really it's an end.
47:28
And those, when we bring both of those things together, that
47:31
intersection, that is where true healing can happen and it brings
47:35
things into balance. It really introduces.
47:39
OK, so let's talk a little bit about safe spaces, brotherhood,
47:44
and support. So as a therapist, how do you
47:47
create safe spaces for men to show up fully?
47:51
And what do you think contributes to the struggle that
47:55
Black men have with like, creating brotherhood and
47:57
community? Yeah.
47:58
You know, it seems to me that that Black men are starting to
48:03
be able to develop community, or maybe we've in some ways always
48:09
been able to develop community. But the depth to which we go in
48:14
our community has not always been there in terms of how we
48:19
allow ourselves to process some of our thoughts, how we support
48:23
each other through some of those thought processes.
48:26
I mean, a lot of times we're just bouncing things off of one
48:31
another and we're not really responding to it.
48:33
And so for me, I like to play basketball, yeah.
48:38
And Oh yeah, I probably who three or four days a week.
48:41
Hey, Mario. Yeah, Yeah.
48:43
I have to show you. I have to send you some footage.
48:46
No, but I create, you know, so I seek out those, those places.
48:51
And one of the things that was tough when I made the transition
48:55
back to Ohio from Maryland was just being able to find that
48:59
type of community because at least three nights a week, man,
49:03
we were showing up and we were, I was, I was a part of a group
49:06
that actually would have 15 or 20 minute Bible based discussion
49:10
before we play ball. So those are some of the ways
49:14
that I find community. I hold on, you hold on to your
49:18
good friends. If you got 1, hold on to them
49:22
and create opportunities as much as possible to be able to
49:26
nurture that relationship. But for me, part of my calling,
49:30
I believe. And I was just talking to my
49:32
best friend about it the other day and he said, and we were
49:35
talking about how we believe that God, God calls us to
49:39
communion with him and then empowers us to the to be
49:44
community and communion to our community, right?
49:49
So, so he, we, we sit with him, you know, we, we glean from him
49:56
and then we go out and we become and we create community by our
50:01
very existence. And so for those of us who are
50:04
on an active healing journey, you're not just healing for
50:08
yourself, you are you are becoming a community for someone
50:12
else to help facilitate their healing process as well.
50:17
Yeah, and that brings to mine Ecclesiastes 49 and 10 to our
50:23
better than one. If either of them falls, one can
50:25
help the other up. Right.
50:27
And This is why we need to be in community because those people,
50:31
like you say you have that community three times a week.
50:33
These people saw you. So that also means they know
50:36
what it looks like when Mario's not showing up the way he's
50:40
necessarily showing up. Let me check on my breath.
50:42
Literally got a text last week from a guy that I didn't
50:46
interact with a lot. But hey man, haven't seen you
50:49
out. I didn't see you out two days
50:51
ago. You know, is everything cool?
50:53
You know, like man, and, and when I left Maryland, a guy
50:58
reached out to me, you know, man, it's just not the same
51:01
without you here, you know? And I just, man, I needed that
51:05
because I was feeling like life wasn't the same without me
51:08
having them, you know? And it's not right because just
51:11
as much as you were pouring into them, they were pouring into
51:14
you. It was reciprocal.
51:16
And you know, anytime you come back, you can always go, you
51:19
know where they're going to be. You could pull up on them and
51:22
that thing is there, but also, you know what, they could come
51:24
see you in. Ohio, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:28
Listen, there's there's a study that was just released and I'm
51:31
going to have to try to find. OK.
51:35
It was whatever the most. I don't know how to explain it.
51:38
It was a scientific study that was done on prayer and whether
51:44
or not prayer impacts individuals and if so, to what
51:48
extent and and including distance.
51:51
And they had a set of individuals in the United States
51:54
praying for a number of individuals in India.
51:58
And they were able to identify mood changes, attitudes shifts,
52:04
and everything as a result of being prayed for.
52:08
Did they know they were being prayed for?
52:11
They did not see. It's really interesting and this
52:15
is easy once you can Google it, It's it's out there.
52:18
I was able to see it. I just am not able to name it
52:21
right now. Don't have.
52:21
Much. Yeah, but and so the impact of
52:26
prayer on mood, attitude, outlook and across the world,
52:32
it's just so not only do we do we need physical community, but
52:36
that faith part with being able to intercede for somebody.
52:40
And I want to encourage my men, men, women are people.
52:44
We need each other and our faith.
52:47
Our faith and how we exercise our faith and especially in
52:50
prayer, matters. Yes.
52:53
And it's showing up in the science at this.
52:55
Point now it's measurable. Yeah, yes, thank you so much for
52:59
talking about that importance of peer support and how that is a
53:02
protective factor in mental health and well-being.
53:05
OK, So let's kind of like wrap this up and talk a little bit
53:09
about like emotional freedom and living healed but not hardened,
53:14
right? So what do you think emotional
53:18
freedom looks like professionally when you think
53:21
about your clients, but also you personally, right?
53:23
Like 'cause you disclosed how some of your work, your calling,
53:28
is also tied to your lived experience.
53:30
Yeah, when so I guess it's almost one in the same.
53:35
But emotional freedom is not just the ability to allow
53:41
yourself to emote or to feel whatever it is that you're
53:45
feeling, but it's also being able to name it and, and be
53:52
honest with yourself if what you are naming it is not actually
53:56
what it is, you know, So it I feel angry, but, but am I
54:01
actually angry? Am I hurt?
54:03
Anger is usually the response to what the truth feeling is.
54:08
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah.
54:11
So giving yourself the freedom to feel without judgment or
54:16
shame, but then also learning how to identify and name it so
54:22
that you're able to figure out. Because when you're able to
54:25
identify it, then you're able to identify what you need to do
54:29
next as a result of. Yeah.
54:31
So if you don't know how to identify what it is, well, first
54:35
of all, if you don't even feel free enough to feel it, you're
54:38
going to emote. That's that's the part.
54:40
That's the part right there. It's going to come out some.
54:42
Always manifest the body and the body keep score.
54:46
Yes, it does. So one way or another is coming
54:49
out. So if it's going to come out,
54:51
then I need to learn to be OK with the fact that it is, and I
54:55
need to learn how to identify what it is.
54:58
And then a lot of the questions about what I need to do next are
55:01
also answered as a result. Mario, Well, you get it is what
55:04
I do at the beginning of all my therapy sessions and I call it
55:07
the tap in. You might you might have learned
55:11
a little bit about it, but they called it the mindful check in
55:13
at embark, right. How are you feeling?
55:15
How do you know and how and where are you experiencing it in
55:18
your body and or being? Yeah, that always tells me like
55:22
at the beginning of a session, how or where I need to go.
55:25
Are we picking up where we left off or has something new?
55:27
Like where are you present? And in in a lot of my clients,
55:31
not a lot, enough of my clients, they don't know.
55:34
They're just I'm OK, I'm fine. That's a pression thing.
55:36
And it's not just men. They don't know or they're like,
55:40
you know what? I don't even know.
55:41
Or they did they automatically. I'm sorry, I changed my question
55:45
because the before I used to say, how are you doing?
55:48
That's what we would say, how are you doing?
55:50
And it was in a session that a client was like, I don't want to
55:53
talk about what I'm doing. I want talk about what I'm
55:55
feeling kind of. And I was or she was like, can I
55:57
say, can we change the question? I was like, that's really what I
56:00
wanted to ask you and thank you so much because you're right,
56:05
because we don't have to do I really do want to know how
56:08
you're feeling. Are you in this moment?
56:11
And so just doing that right, like that, even the change of
56:14
that question, it removes the burden to feel like everything
56:18
is productivity, everything is output.
56:20
We have to be producing. Like, yes, we were put here to
56:24
create, right? Like because even God in the
56:26
beginning, God what created. That's the first action verb we
56:30
get in the Bible. Created, right?
56:33
And we're made in His image, so we are to also create, but He
56:36
also put in a day of rest so we don't have to always do.
56:41
I love what you're saying about being able to label it because
56:44
then we know how to take care of ourselves, but then also
56:46
communicate it to others and be supportive and be supportive.
56:52
So what? How do you stay grounded so that
56:55
you can continue to operate in purpose and help others heal?
56:59
You know, I've made a transition in my life from being, I guess I
57:04
was a very in a way, passive individual and just noticing
57:09
through healing, through therapy, through, you know,
57:12
working through my, my issues that that has not been positive
57:16
for me. So now what I try to do is I try
57:19
to get on top of whatever it is that I'm, I'm experiencing.
57:23
So if it's something with my spouse, if it's something with
57:27
you know, you know, job or whatever the case is, I just go
57:31
ahead and either shoot that e-mail or I try to have that
57:34
conversation immediately. This is how I'm feeling based
57:37
off of what has taken place. It's not leaving things to
57:41
chance and not allowing yourself.
57:43
There's a difference between being nice and kind.
57:47
OK, what that means to you? OK, So a nice person is
57:52
accommodating and to a point oftentimes where they are
57:56
sacrificing beyond what it is that they're able to get
58:00
overextending. Yes, a kind person is always
58:05
kind, but they have healthy boundaries.
58:08
So how it manifests is no, I'm not able to take on that project
58:16
that you, you know, we're late on on implementing and now it's
58:22
the last minute and you're going out of town.
58:25
I'm very sorry. I'm sorry that this is happening
58:27
to you, but I'm not able to do that.
58:29
I don't have the time. I don't have the bandwidth.
58:31
That's not something that I'm able to do right now, right?
58:34
I'm kind about how I'm conveying that information, right?
58:38
But I'm also also have healthy boundaries because I know what
58:42
I'm capable of or what I'm willing to do.
58:44
Right, man, You know, we've been together for a while, but, you
58:49
know, we've had several conversations about how I'm just
58:52
really feeling disrespected. And I feel like either we need
58:56
to take a break or we're at an impasse right now because, you
59:00
know, and so I'm always kind about how I'm doing things, but
59:04
I'm not allowing people to walk over me.
59:06
I'm not overextending myself. That has been huge in me, in my
59:11
healing journey. Yeah.
59:13
Those boundaries, man, they change lives.
59:16
But when you grow up and you don't have boundaries and it's
59:19
not normalized to want understand what a boundary is,
59:22
because sometimes when you don't grow up with boundaries, you can
59:25
be upset with people who do have boundaries and you don't know
59:28
you're the unhealthy 1. Yeah.
59:32
But then when you do learn it, the value of it and that like,
59:36
it's a negotiation. Not right now is is still a yes,
59:40
right? Like, and we have to learn to
59:41
negotiate that. But sometimes we didn't feel
59:43
like we could. Well, Mario, I really and truly
59:47
want to thank you for being here, right?
59:50
So I have a couple more questions because this has been
59:52
so good and I know it's going to bless so many people.
59:55
What do you want black men and those who love black men to
1:00:02
understand about the work that you do about the importance of
1:00:05
mental health? Man, I, I, I think that I want
1:00:09
them to know that pursuing therapy, allowing yourself to,
1:00:16
you know, embrace your healing journey really is the safe space
1:00:21
that you've been looking for. It doesn't feel that way when
1:00:25
you're now contending or undoing or relearning or unlearning,
1:00:31
right? That doesn't feel comfortable.
1:00:33
But every victory that you have with that, when you show up into
1:00:37
that space and you embrace this part of your journey, you will
1:00:42
begin to create the safe space Watch this that the world has
1:00:46
not created for US black men or black women, black people.
1:00:51
The truth is that outside of our own community and outside of our
1:00:57
intentionality and our healing journey, there's really no place
1:01:01
on the planet that we're able that facilitates our experience.
1:01:06
But you can create one. You can link up with your
1:01:11
Creator and He can provide. God can provide the people, the
1:01:15
places, and the things that you need in order to go from
1:01:20
surviving to thriving. Right.
1:01:22
Yeah, yeah, that's good. And thank you so much for
1:01:26
reminding our audience and empowering our audience to
1:01:30
understand that post traumatic healing and growth are viable
1:01:35
options and they have the ability to create it for
1:01:38
themselves. And that with support black men,
1:01:41
since this is the, you know, population we've been talking
1:01:44
about, but they can rewrite their narrative to go from
1:01:47
woundedness to wholeness. And that God is definitely a way
1:01:51
like he, he, he is the ultimate healer, right?
1:01:55
Like so that it's, it's available to us all.
1:01:58
So if you can leave the audience with one powerful truth to help
1:02:03
them to rise and thrive, what would it be?
1:02:06
I know the last one was a really good gym that you love, but like
1:02:09
one powerful truth that could help them with rising and
1:02:12
thriving. You know, there's a quote by
1:02:15
James Baldwin and just I want to do it justice by by reading.
1:02:20
And it says I am what I am, what time, circumstance, history have
1:02:26
made of me. He says certainly, but I am also
1:02:31
much more than that. And so and so are we all right.
1:02:36
I love it because it embodies the the healing process.
1:02:41
There's an admission of what the truth is that I've come from
1:02:46
this. My daddy was this, my Mama was
1:02:48
this. I've done these things.
1:02:50
I am most certainly a product of my environment, my
1:02:55
circumstances, but I'm also much more than that, so much more
1:03:00
than that. And it also gives way to
1:03:03
allowing for there to be a shift that takes place.
1:03:08
And so I want to say as we are, we are healing, watch this.
1:03:12
We come broken, we, we come angry.
1:03:15
And that is a very violent process to live in that right.
1:03:20
But shifting healing is also a very aggressive process.
1:03:25
So it manifests differently sometimes, right?
1:03:29
And so our spouses, the women in our lives, the people in our
1:03:33
lives as men and when we are embracing the this journey,
1:03:37
understand that it is an aggressive pursuit.
1:03:41
You in order to undo, you have to be intentional.
1:03:44
It's like working out. You want to drop fat.
1:03:47
There's certain things I'm just not going to eat and there's a
1:03:49
certain way that I've got to attack at the gym in order to
1:03:53
see those results. And so as I'm undoing, as I'm
1:03:57
relearning, as I'm growing and establishing this new person,
1:04:01
it's a, it can be aggressive, it can be intense, and that's OK.
1:04:05
You're channeling the negative energy into something positive.
1:04:09
Yeah, that's so good. Well, Mario, thank you so much
1:04:13
for being here today. And I'm pretty sure we're going
1:04:16
to have to have you back again because I feel like we've only
1:04:18
scraped the surface with this. And this is a really good intro
1:04:22
conversation because we didn't even really get into like real
1:04:25
tangible ways. Because for some people,
1:04:27
listening to this is the only therapy that they may get or may
1:04:30
have access to. So I would love to have you back
1:04:34
at a later time to talk more about it and just what that
1:04:37
looks like in action in everyday life for folks.
1:04:40
So all right, we're going to move into our closing.
1:04:43
And so I always close with a call to action for our audience.
1:04:47
And so first, we're going to start with the reflection.
1:04:49
What narratives about strength, silence, and struggle have you
1:04:54
believed and what emotions have you buried that needs space to
1:04:59
be seen and healed? And then second, y'all know it's
1:05:03
always action. It's always something for y'all
1:05:05
to do. Next, I want you to look for if
1:05:09
you're in this space and if you're ready, look for a
1:05:11
culturally competent therapist and begin journaling your story
1:05:18
if you're not ready to go into therapy, right?
1:05:21
But also normalize just checking in with your community, with
1:05:25
your brothers, whatever your community looks like, and to
1:05:28
create your own space of healing.
1:05:31
And lastly, I want to send you all out of here with an
1:05:33
affirmation. You are not broken.
1:05:36
You are becoming. God has not excuse me, God is
1:05:40
not intimidated by your emotions.
1:05:43
Freedom, mental, emotional and spiritual are always available
1:05:47
and they are waiting for your yes.
1:05:49
So thank you all again for tuning in to another episode of
1:05:53
Rise and Thrive with Doctor J Nicole.
1:05:55
I want to encourage you to follow, subscribe and to
1:06:00
continue to rise in faith and thrive in purpose.
1:06:02
And you can find us on YouTube, Spotify, as well as Apple
1:06:07
podcast and share this with anyone that you think might
1:06:10
benefit. And we look forward to seeing
1:06:12
you next time. Episodes drop every Tuesday at
1:06:16
7:00 AM Eastern Standard Time. And I want to thank you again
1:06:19
one more time, Mario, for joining us and let the people
1:06:23
know how they can connect with you.
1:06:24
They want to stay connected. Sure, you can find me on
1:06:27
Instagram, TikTok at Mario Speaks Life and and so you can
1:06:32
find me there. Also, you can you can Google
1:06:35
fresh start counseling. If you are in Ohio or Maryland,
1:06:39
you can Google fresh start counseling my name and it'll pop
1:06:43
up and there's a there's a very straightforward and easy way to
1:06:47
be able to connect with me through my company.
1:06:49
So I hope that I'm able to walk with some of you in your
1:06:53
journey. Yes, absolutely.
1:06:54
Well, thank you so much, and thank you all for tuning in for
1:06:57
another episode of Ryzen 5 for Doctor J Nicole, and we'll see
1:07:01
you next time.