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PAC'd 12 | PAC-12 Football with Nate Gatter · PAC'd 12

• PAC'd 12: Welcome back to the Pac Twelve, your favorite place for all things Pac Twelve. I'm your host, Salvadash, to my left, Brad Beerman, to my right, Kate Bessett in front of me for the very first time in person, but not the first time on the show, Nate Gatter. Welcome back, Nate, to the show. ⁓ thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. Good to be here. How you doing today, Nate? How was the fly in? You were in San Marcus last week. It's a quick turnaround back into the city, but how are you doing? ⁓ great to be back. It's ⁓ it was a little cooler in St. Louis this morning than it was when I I landed. ⁓ but good to be back. All right. And can we start with the backstory between your connection to Nate? Because yeah, I don't think we got that the first time. That's true. We didn't really dive into that. I I I kinda like the mystery of, you know like like the worst thing they can say is no. But no, no. The the truth is though, is that I have been friends with the the family of Nate's wife for a very long time and Nate actually invaded our our family so I'm kidding Nate but but I've been friends with them for a very long time. ⁓ I've known his wife for a very long time as well. Wonderful people and I knew once Nate got in the family, like and once I knew about him I was like he's gonna be big time and here we are, like ten, twelve years later, you and Rachel have been together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but what we you and I probably met in Twenty nineteen maybe? Yeah, I think I think something like that. So yeah, it's great. It's kind of ⁓ you know, it's a little bit full circle now to get to do this, which is fun. I guess so. I guess we can just dive right into it. Second part of the interview series. Now we're into the season. Last time we talked to you, it was the beginning of the season, so we were previewing a lot of stuff, but now we're about a quarter into the college football season, so we've seen a little bit of action. But I guess how has the season been for y'all so far at the USA network so far? I mean, I think it's great to get going, right? We we we spent a lot of time over the summer anticipating and although it was great to do the little barnstorming tour that we did of of all the fall training camps, at the same time we did that, you know, a month out before the season started. Then you're left with kind of four weeks of just waiting around for the season to get going. ⁓ so it's great to to get rolling. Definitely, you know, we don't get a preseason. Right. I mean, it would be nice to h to be able to have a preseason game or two. ⁓ not that I think that we haven't been able to hit the ground running. I'm proud of what we've done the first three weeks, but ⁓ you know, there's a lot more that we can do, and I think everybody who's who's part of it would tell you that that we intend to do a lot more. ⁓ but the the nature of this business, especially when you're starting a new package on a network that hasn't done college football in four decades, is that Everything's happening essentially for the first time and everybody working on it is is working together ⁓ i in one way or another for the first time. And so you sort of have to implement things and and augment things on the fly. but I I'm proud of the work that we've put out there so far. I think we have great partners ⁓ in these Pac twelve schools, had a really good schedule over the first three weeks that I think allowed us to see ⁓ a lot of of really interesting stuff and doesn't hurt from a fan ⁓ reception standpoint that the pac twelve teams are three and ⁓ in the games that we've had so far. ⁓ so you know nothing we can do to control that but it it helps ⁓ it helps make a good impression on the fans. And I will say that just talking about the USA broadcast we're gonna start with ⁓ I tweeted from our X account this weekend ⁓ it was a gift that the Pac twelve conference grabbed and put on X of the drone shot y'all had this Saturday of the San Marcus River. And I was watching from five hours away. I wasn't there. I was with family and ⁓ I was just sitting there thinking, I feel like I'm at the game. Like I know Sam Marcus and I feel like I'm there. And I thought y'all did a great job of that at the network. And so I retweeted and I said, Well, I think the pac or that the USA network has done a much better job than the CW. And that's not to dog on them. They have a good broadcast and a good team. But in terms of making me feel like I'm in Sam Marcus, letting someone that is maybe in Pullman Just watching the Bobcats cause you know, their team's not on yet. Y'all did a good job of showcasing the college town. And that tweet got nineteen thousand views and like four hundred plus likes. So obviously there's a lot of praise from the outside on y'all as well. Yeah, obviously I can only speak to our telecast, but I I know that it was a huge point of emphasis for all of us to try to introduce the towns. Especially Texas State, frankly, because Texas State, as we talked about when I was on the show the first time, is the only school that is not only new to this league, but has never shared a conference with any of the other members of this league, right? Five of the other newcomers to the Pac Twelve have already been conference opponents with each other as recently as last season. So those towns are not necessarily new to the fans, right? Boise fans have an understanding of San Diego and of Fort Collins and wherever else, but San Marcus is new to all the other seven fan bases. in the league. ⁓ and so getting the chance to share that I think is really valuable. The other piece of that is I think that's sort of what college football is, right? The beauty of doing college football as compared to the NFL, because trust me, from a broadcasting standpoint, there are many conveniences to doing the NFL. There are only fifty-three guys on the roster. They don't have double numbers running around out there and guys slipping on triple XL jerseys on punt coverage because they need to change their number. And, you know, no college towns that are in the middle of nowhere that are hard to get to, right? All the everything's easy about doing the NFL, but it also, with a couple of notable exceptions, tends to feel sort of homogenous. And what's great about college football is that a game day experience in Pullman and a game day experience in s San Marcus and Fort Collins and San Diego can all be very different from one another. And I think if you're not capturing some of that local color to the best of your ability, you're missing out on maybe the thing that makes college football unique and makes college football a product that can sell itself differently and to different people and play on different emotions than the NFL can. So certainly I I think i in in being a good partner to the Pac twelve, it means not only doing everything we can to cover the football teams and the men's basketball teams and the women's basketball teams the very best that we can and we will do those things, but also Showcasing these towns and to your point making people feel like they are getting a little bit of a slice to the extent that we can show it to you through your television. Let's try. Yeah. You promised in our first interview too, that the graphics package that we were gonna love it. You had seen at that point it had not been shown to the world yet. You were a hundred percent right. And like as Caden mentioned, you guys have done a fantastic job presenting this conference to the world. What has been like the biggest ⁓ the most pleasant surprise I should say when you know with with working with the USA network? I think the best part, and it's not necessarily a surprise, but the most pleasant part relative to what people might expect from the outside is how much it feels like everybody is pulling in the same direction. Everybody really wants to make this great. And it's one of the things that drew me to working on this package in particular as compared to some other television opportunities I might have had in the past where if you're and there's nothing wrong with this. But if you're doing sort of a down ballot game at a major network where they're throwing you on their sixth or seventh channel and it's their fifteenth or sixteenth or seventeenth highest rated game of the week, who in the C suite is really locked in on that game? Who is spending time during the week saying, What can we do better? What did we do well? What did we not do well? What can we do better? How can we steer more resources toward this broadcast in a c in a cost effective way? USA and the Pac-Twelve and the member schools for that matter are all on the same page about wanting this to be great. And everybody wants what they're doing to be good. I don't know that everybody cares about every single game being great. And I certainly don't know that everybody is willing to put in the time and resources to make it great. And that's again not a knock on anybody. If you're an ESPN, you're doing dozens of games every Saturday, including more than a dozen linearly. You can't afford to have C-Suite eyes on every single product. Right? That just is not realistic. They can't be deeply invested in a game that might only have a couple hundred thousand viewers on ESPNU relative to a game doing eleven million like their LSU Ole Miss game did. Obviously that's where the human and financial resources have to go. ⁓ so I think this was an opportunity to be part of something that was hugely important to the network and to the conference, because frankly, the way Ryan and I have viewed it from the beginning is that we want our game to be viewed as the definitive Pac twelve broadcast of that week. And now we might have the best game some weeks. We might not have the best game some weeks. That's out of your our control. But we want our game to be viewed as the Pac twelve broadcast of record. And I think there's a commitment there from the network to try to support us and give us the tools that we need to succeed in that. Yes sir. And doing a great job. I mean I just love listening to y'all's call week in, week out doesn't you have to be Texas State. Just hearing your voice you got just such a great broadcast their voice man coming from an aspiring one to another. We we were talking sorry to interrupt you w about how like w we can't see you doing anything else. Like you were born to broadcast football. And the funny thing is how close I was to not broadcasting at all, right? I mean this is what I wanted to do since I was a kid, but ⁓ frankly like during and coming out of COVID, ⁓ I was in my mid twenties. I was doing independent minor league baseball. And I had a girlfriend who I was pretty serious about making my wife and I wasn't thinking she was looking for a two thousand dollar a month seasonal Frontier League announcer as a husband. So I was like, I think I might need another option here. And so I w I went to law school and you know, I spent this last year up until the end of July doing both. And and so when you say that, I in some ways agree because I always saw myself doing this. It's what I always wanted to do. In some ways though, I think back to only five years ago when the path from where I was to here seemed not only long, it it seemed impossible. I couldn't even see it ⁓ from where I was at the time. So to be honest with you, i I I am just grateful to have this opportunity and it's something I spend time thinking about because, you know, not that I need any extra motivation to do my job, but you know, it it's it is always in the back of my mind. how fortunate I am to be in this position and that what I owe to myself, to everybody who gave me the opportunity, ⁓ and to the hundreds of thousands of Pac twelve fans who watch us every weekend is to make our broadcast the very, very best it can be. And how was the Texas heat in September while you're in a suit and tie like two thirty or noon kick? Well if Ryan Leaf were here, ⁓ he would tell you that it was unbearable. Poor guy. ⁓ you know, he he is a big dude. ⁓ he's six foot seven and ⁓ he's got that NFL build and so he sweats a little bit in a suit and tie. ⁓ so yeah, he would have he would have gone for a polo shirt. I don't mind it. I I I like wearing a suit and tie for a game. I think it it brings a different vibe ⁓ that we're looking for. Again, it in the to the extent that what we're trying to do is make this feel as big as possible and make it the biggest Pac twelve game of the week and try to challenge bigger games and bigger conferences. you kinda gotta do ⁓ all the little things and one of those things is looking apart, ⁓ in my mind. Now, when we get probably to mid October, certainly when we get into November, you're gonna see us in parkas a lot more than Suz and Tys. So that's gonna take care of itself. I've got my USA Parka ⁓ at home and that's gonna be that's gonna be coming out of the closet probably in the next three to five weeks, depending on how the weather looks in ⁓ in Corvallis and and in Pullman. ⁓ but you know what it was great. It was great, man. I mean i I I can't get enough of this and You know what, one way or another we figure it out. and and whatever the the weather, whatever chaos might go on, ⁓ you find a way to get the show on and you make the best of it and and and you do the very best you can. And look, if all of us needed perfect conditions to succeed, then we wouldn't be worth very much. Right? I mean it the the when you earn your money is when things aren't going perfectly. So it it's up to me to to create the very best product possible, no matter what the circumstances. And the product was very good, but I mean You had a very good game in that booth as well. You talked about three and no with your team covering the main game. The season about a hit week four. What have you liked so far from where the games you see or just maybe around the conference, three weeks into the season? Well, frankly, I mean, again, we have gotten the luxury of seeing three really important Pac twelve wins because that was and we talked about this when I was on the first time. There's no getting around the fact that the non conference is critical for the Pac twelve because everything for the league is built around Creating and maintaining the perception and the reality that this is the fifth best football league in America. How that compares to number four is not really important in my mind. The important thing is to establish themselves as the number five league in America. And I think we had three games that are very strong pieces of the Pac-Twelve's resume. Unquestionably the Boise State win over Memphis is the feather in the Pac-Twelve's cap from September to this point. ⁓ if Boise State could beat Western Michigan this weekend, that would be a significant second feather as well. ⁓ now there have been some stub toes, right, from the Pac-12 too. There's no way around that. I mean, ⁓ the the James Madison win, as convincing as it was over San Diego State, ⁓ in San Diego, not ideal. And there have been some missed opportunities. I think I think there were higher hopes for Washington State and how they would play in in their bigger games. I thought they were okay against Washington. The defense was really good. ⁓ the offense just obviously has not been there. So there there are some concerns. To me right now, our games have been enough that the Pac twelve is right in the conversation for that number five league. I think if you were asking me to look at it holistically through three weeks, what we see is probably that Boise State is clearly the best non A four program in the country, but that the Pac twelve hasn't separated itself from the American top to bottom right now. I can tell you're itching to talk football. So let's talk football, man. So I wanna the first I want to talk about is Oregon State and and their incredible start. Did you any did you or anybody at USA have them circled because what a surprise Braden Atkinson and Jesse Legree have been. I should say this. Alan Robison, who is the coordinating producer for football at USA Sports and was probably i he would maybe say this isn't true, but if you had to single out one person who was most important in building the USA schedule He was the person. And he believed in Oregon State. Now some of that is believing in the ratings that Oregon State would do, right? Because television is a business. And Oregon State and Washington State did pretty good ratings even during the Pac Two era, ⁓ when they were sort of, you know, two teams without a conference. And ⁓ well, th I shouldn't say that. They had a conference, but without other teams to play in their conference. And those ratings were still solid. So some of it was a bet on that that people would watch Oregon State regardless of how good they were. But it was also a bet on them being at least better than what people were pegging them for coming in. I think people had them pretty much everyone had them seventh or eighth in the in the preseason. And there is no question they have exceeded that expectation based on their couple of performances against the quality they played in the first two weeks. And also, to be honest, how easily they took care of Montana. Because ⁓ yeah, I assume most people probably have a feel at this point for the quality of football program that Montana is. But look at the way Boise State kind of messed around with South Dakota. I mean, that that was a ball game deep into the fourth quarter. Now, I think Boise State always had the upper hand and I always felt confident they were gonna win the game, but that was not an easy win for them. Oregon State made Montana look like an easier win than I think people expected. ⁓ we're gonna have them a couple of times in October and on USA network, Ryan and I won't have it, but we'll have them in the first week in October as well against Colorado State. And I think What coming into the season, people might have said Oregon State, Colorado State, first week of Pac twelve, like, ⁓ okay, whatever, fine. That's probably two teams in the bottom half of the league, maybe the bottom two teams in the league. Now it looks like two teams in the top half of the league that both have at least a very realistic shot at trying to be that number two team that would pro most likely play Boise State in the Pac twelve championship. I'm not putting back Boise State there, but obviously everyone would put Boise State as the top team in the league right now. Certainly Oregon State and Colorado State. very much in the mix ⁓ as, you know, that number two, three, four team, depending on what suits your fancy, about how the rest of the league looks, to me, that they've been the biggest surprise, even bigger than Colorado State. I think because Jim Morrow was kind of a proven commodity and you're able to bring in so many players now in the portal, I think everybody felt like Colorado State would take a jump. Oregon State, nobody really knew just because Jamarcus Shepard is getting his first opportunity at this level. ⁓ but there was a lot of belief in him too and his personality. And I I love I'm I can't wait to talk to him. I haven't gotten to speak to him in person yet. And I'm really looking forward to it next month because I think the way that he has almost willed the program in the right direction with the sheer force of his personality is really impressive. And I wonder how many coaches could do that and how many coaches, even if they could, would be willing to. Because he's had to make himself a little bit of the court gesture, you know, or rodeo clown at times. He's got to draw all the attention to himself sometimes. to take pressure off of his players and he is more than willing to do that. And I don't think people realize what a selfless act that is for a guy in that kind of position who's establishing his brand in the Pac twelve and nationally as a head coach. So I I've been really, really impressed ⁓ with him and with their product on the field. And for more about what Nate's talking about, look at the Pac twelve conference social media channels, especially Instagram. They had it mic'd up against Montana and that's where you really get to see that personality come out. And it's Hilarious to watch, but also on that, you kind of already touched on it. But Colorado State, like you still thought that they weren't gonna be that good because it was a first year and it's hard to do, but Jim Moore has done it. ⁓ specifically, I want to ask you just about that offense. Because if Haas Haney plays it in San Antonio just down the road this weekend, I think they really go in and surprise his thirteen and a half point dogs, which is crazy, just what that offense has become. They have really explosive running back room, they've got speed, and we have a running bit that every week I bring up. a random Texas high school football player. So I'm gonna bring up I'm gonna bring up Cedric Ross because you called his first collegiate touchdown on his first ever touch. He leads the team in receiving. They've just got all these guys that have come together and been really explosive and I think we're starting to see they have one of the better offenses and there are some teams that have some not so good offenses and I think that puts them in a good spot. Yeah, explosive is the right word to be for that offense. ⁓ maybe an overused word in football now, but I I think it's the right one for them. Cedric Ross, certainly. And it shows you how differently you can find guys to contribute, right? You got a guy like Mel Brown, who was their their is their primary tailback coming in. In fact, their top two tailbacks, both coming with Jim Morrow from UConn. Then you've got a guy in Cedric Ross who comes in as sort of the bonus third guy who they're they're gonna work in now and again when they get their opportunities. And wow, he has taken ⁓ advantage of his opportunities in these first few weeks and and forced his way onto the field to stay for longer than I think even the Colorado State coaches expected coming into the year. And he's a true freshman. And then on the outside you have RJ Vick, who had three touchdowns against Wyoming in the game that we had, and he only played 14 snaps all of last season at Wake Forest for former Pac Twelve head coach ⁓ Jake Dickert, who went from Wazoo ⁓ to Wake Forest. So to me, those are all different ways that a a program like Colorado State or frankly any Pac 12 program can bring in players and succeed, there are lots of different ways. And it doesn't even mention guys coming up from like the FCS and Division II ranks because we'll see plenty of that as well. Boise State has done some of that this year on both sides of the ball, particularly on the line of scrimmage, ⁓ and they've had success with that. So you know, I think the answer is that Jim Moran knows how to build a program a little bit easier when you have his name recognition and resume to get guys out of the portal. And then he knows how to find ways to win football games. And that's something we talked about a lot going into Wyoming is look back at UConn from last year and a team that didn't commit penalties and didn't turn the football over. And if you do those two things, especially when you're able to infuse talent into the roster the way that he has, you're gonna win games. Or at the very least, you're gonna hang around in games and give yourself a chance to get a bounce or two your way in the fourth quarter and win a football game that otherwise you should have lost by ten points or seventeen points or whatever it might be. The last piece, obviously. Is that Haas Haney is just a really, really good college quarterback. And frankly, I don't know if Colorado State could have gotten him for a first year head coach in Jim Mora trying to turn around a program that won two games last year if he hadn't gotten hurt at Oklahoma State. Because he had a really good first quarter of the first game last season and then broke his foot. And that was all that we that was all that was out there of Haas Haney. In fact The first pass that he threw against Wyoming was his first pass attempt in his career against an FBS opponent. Because that was an FCS team and he played a quarter against them last season when he was at Oklahoma State. So th th in some ways you're taking a chance on a guy with no proven production at this level of college football. And that chance has really paid off because he looks like he is a an elite college quarterback, certainly for the Pac twelve level, and frankly, like a guy who could be a high end quarterback at any level of college football. And ⁓ I I think that's the you know, it's no secret that a quarterback is always gonna be the biggest piece of the offensive puzzle. ⁓ but that really transformed things for them. And it's why I don't press the panic button about a game that was more lopsided than we had hoped against BYU, because him not being there changes that whole game. I mean, ask Oklahoma State how a s a game in a season can change without having Os Haney on the field. I mean, I I called the game Oklahoma State's week two game after Haney got hurt. last season when they went to Oregon and lost like whatever it was, seventy to three. ⁓ it was it was Oregon's most lopsided win in literally like eighty or ninety years. ⁓ so it you know things can get ugly real quick when you when you lose the guy that you want to have out there, even if they have a very capable backup in Ferrar. So no, I I mean to me what you're seeing so far is every reason why you bring in somebody like Jim Mora and all the things he brings with him. Yeah. And we talked about teams that are flourishing. I want to talk about more teams that have kind of struggled specifically Utah State, I mean, they're kinda like the opposite of a Colorado State where they were kind of picked to be middle of the pack, you know, a competing team. And throughout the three first three weeks, I can't think of a team in the pack twelve that has looked worse than them. Can just take us through what your thoughts are going on in Logan, Utah at the moment? Yeah, you know, I think the reason that you pick a team like that just not to be toward the bottom is bec is just pure faith in Bronco Mendenhall and what he's done everywhere he's been. And how he's been able to at least consistently create bowl eligible teams everywhere he's gone. And look, I mean, i they hung around there in that game against Washington. Maybe what we found out in that game is that Washington is not a top fifteen or twenty team in the country. That is very, very possible. ⁓ but what we also found out is if Utah State plays a game like that, again, d in the spirit of what can a good coach do for you, they can't necessarily win you the game, but they can stop you from losing it and they can get you in the fourth quarter with a puncher's chance. Well, that method could get them a couple of wins in the Pac twelve, including against teams that maybe have more talent and maybe have played better this year. So I would I would say that yes, you have to in the Pac twelve power rankings right now put Utah State number eight. But one of the consistent things we heard from coaches all throughout August when we talked to them was what makes the Pac twelve different? What is the Pac twelve's strongest case for being the fifth best league aside from maybe having Boise State, which is sort of the unspoken part. You don't say that part when you're talking to other coaches. It's that you don't have the bottom feeding teams. That even your Utah State can come in or whoever happens to be the number eight team in any given year can come in and beat anybody in the league if that team has an off Saturday and Utah State puts a good game together. I think as compared to other conferences, certainly outside of the A4, the Pac twelve has the highest floor year in and year out. I think that's what we're going to see. How that plays out in any one given year and who is that team at the bottom, it's going to change. Especially in the Portal era, there's going to be dramatic change from one year to the next. ⁓ but I I think one of the things that the coaches are very cognizant of is there are no weeks off in this league. And I would be wary if any fan base is going into Utah State week thinking, well, chalk that W up and let's move on to the next. You might be right more than a few times. You might be right most of the time. But there are gonna be a couple of teams that get more than they want from Utah State this year in league play. I think so. Let's let's move on to a better team. Fresno, California, a team I'm incredibly high on, the Fresno State Bulldogs. Offense has some question marks around it, but I think this defense is arguably the best in the Pac twelve, and I think they have the best coach in the Pac twelve, Matt Enns. and I think that that Having Matt Ents and that good defense is enough to overcome like maybe some of the struggles of the offense. Are you in the same boat or do you do you have different thoughts on Fresno State? I worry about Fresno State being able to score enough points. I mean, I I'd like to see a dagger to his heart. I'd like to see them be able to execute better on offense. I agree, Matt Ents, very, very good coach. A lot to like about that defense. And look, there's not a Southern Cal level defense in the Pac twelve, but man, they looked really bad in that game. I know they've played since then. I I understand that. But that game was so bad offensively that it had me rethinking a lot of expectations about Fresno State. ⁓ you know, maybe the lights just got bright and the game started to get away from ⁓ 'Cause there were moments in that game in the first quarter when they moved the ball and you know it it seemed like maybe they were gonna hang around for a while. that very much did not happen. So ⁓ look, ⁓ I we haven't had Fresno State yet. So I haven't seen as much of them as I have of some of the other teams in the league. but I have a hard time thinking that's an offense as it looks right now in September. This is not to say how it could look in November, but how that offense is played in September, I have a hard time thinking that's a top two team in the league. Are you okay? Agree to disagree. Look, I no, I'm just here to to give you my thought. I'm not paid to to predict anything. I I just react to things when they happen. I don't know who it's not his podcast, right? It's ours, right? Yeah, we can we can frame it our own way if we want. ⁓ You were actually pretty fortunate, you and the whole crew, to get a good Texas State football game on Saturday. You got to see the offense play like the offense that everybody thought they were gonna be. Just talk about how crazy it was to get a sea game like that. Cause I know as a broadcaster, ⁓ defensive struggles, you know, a defensive game can it's not necessarily boring, but it's like a pitcher throwing a shutout. You know, it it gets slow sometimes. Talk about just how fun that was. It is fun. I'm gonna surprise you a little bit when I say this. I think there is a middle ground that is my favorite between having a three nothing game and having a forty nine thirty five game. Can I answer can I ask you, 'cause this is a really interesting question that I find football fans say, what's your favorite football score line? In a college game, maybe like twenty seven twenty four. Okay. Something like that. I was thinking twenty eight twenty four. There you Hey. There's a continue on my bad. Yeah, I mean I I I think I think there is a point in a game, especially as we're trying to capture and tell and in some cases retell because we're trying to catch people up, the story of a football game, when you have a dozen touchdowns, it starts to feel like is a touchdown even important anymore? Yeah, yeah. That's that's valid. What is the value of a touchdown? Now I don't know what seven points is even worth in this game. A and so ⁓ which you know, makes me sound a little bit like a soccer guy. I like I have some British f friends who are soccer people and they're like, I've never basketball was a one sport I've never been able to get into because I just don't understand the value of a point. 'Cause it's just people are scoring all the time and it feels like scoring is just not a big deal and I and I can't relate to it. and so I feel a little bit like that when I'm saying that, but it it is sometimes harder to to pinpoint these are the key moments in a game. ⁓ when you have a game that that just piles up points, especially in the first half, 'cause we had that two weeks in a row. You know, Memphis and Boise State didn't quite get to forty nine thirty five, but they piled up points in the first half much the same way that Texas State and North Texas did last week. I'll tell you this, and you guys might have already seen this. Texas State last week was the first NFL, FBS or FCS team this century to have a player throw for four or more touchdowns, Brad Jackson. Run for three or more, Davian Jackson doesn't even count his receiving touchdown. And then a third guy run for two hundred and ten yards or more, Torrance Burgess Jr. And I I think the running backs in particular is what I come away with. Now I don't want to take anything away from Brad Jackson because that was critically important for him to play like the guy that we thought he was gonna be coming into the year, but that's also him playing like the guy we thought he was gonna be. I think people, maybe not in San Marcus, but around the league. Sleep on the Texas State running game. ⁓ no, this guy did too. How much they run it. Number one sleeper. Yeah. How much they run it and how successfully they run it. This is one of the ten best rushing offenses in the country right now. They have two really good running backs. Jenkins is a pretty good option as as the number three guy, and they have a massive offensive line. Like as big an offensive line as there is in the country, not just the Pac 12. And I think that has made a big difference for them, the way they were moving people. Because then look at how often they create one on one. And I don't care if you're North Texas or anybody else, like go to that the second Chris Dawn touchdown. If you're gonna cover Chris Dawn one on one on the edge like that with a single high safety, who never has a prayer of getting near that play, it Brad knows where he's going with the football before it snapped. That's hit his back foot, maybe hitch one time, let it go. That that was as simple as it could have possibly been. He and Chris Dawn have worked that exact concept. hundreds of times in their lives together, it might as well have been June on some high school field somewhere where they're just working out. Right? Like that is way too easy. But you end up in coverages like that because they're running for 300 yards between these two guys. ⁓ so I think that's what what impressed me the most is how good the running game was, how consistent it was. And I mean when you get a ⁓ Bo Sparks back at a hundred percent, ⁓ let alone sample at a hundred percent, Kylan Evans I saw was also questionable This week. I mean, hopefully all of those guys are able to play. This is a deep and talented receiving core, too. I think we're starting to see Texas State round into the offensive shape we all expected. It's a shame that they couldn't pull out the UTSA game because I think, not to take anything away from UTSA, that's going to be a little bit of a stain on the resume that they don't necessarily deserve. I think if you play that game again on Saturday, Texas State wins it by multiple possessions. ⁓ They just UTSA got him at the right time. And look, they had to go win the game. I'm not taking anything away from them. They had to win the game in in the last fifteen seconds. But it still feels like a game where Texas State should have won and would win if they played ten more times the majority of the time, probably comfortably. And as a result, I think the Texas State resume even deeper into the season isn't going to look quite as good as maybe it should. Because the Texas game is just a write off, right? Everybody's comfortable just writing that off. We don't care about that. Move on. A lot of teams play those kinds of games in week one. That's not going to hold you back. If Texas State were to get themselves into a situation, let's in the perfect world where they become a 10-win team and, you know, down the stretch, let's say, let's say they run the table and you're going into a Pac-12 championship game talking about college football playoff, even if they're nine and three and they're going into a Pac-Twelve championship game talking about potential playoff spot, losing to a team in another group of sixth league that's competing for that spot makes it a lot harder, especially losing at home. ⁓ and I I think that's unfortunate, but the the response against North Texas was phenomenal and it's good to see them in a get right position, get yourself to five hundred back to back wins and then go into a pack twelve schedule where frankly I think anything could happen. Last question about the Bobcats real quick. so in the same light that I asked you about Fresno State with Texas State, their offense is so prolific that we know they're gonna score points. But again, that defense on the other side is what is what worries us. In the same vein that I asked you about Fresno State, do you think that's something that Te Texas State can get over with their problems on defense? I think the secondary is a problem. Jaden Bradley's a really talented player. The fact that the green dot is on him because Will Wyndham, the defensive coordinator, feels like he needs that in order to get him lined up properly makes me a little bit nervous. And not great for your most talented or one of your most talented defensive players to not be as comfortable in the scheme as you would prefer. ⁓ I think it would be great if you know, you'd love for the green dot player to be a guy who's who knows the scheme so well. Everything he's getting from the coordinator in his helmet, because yeah, for people who don't know, the green dot means that that the the coach com is in that guy's helmet. He's the one guy who can hear what the defensive coordinator is saying up until the fifteen second mark on the play clock. you would love for that guy to know the scheme so well that he doesn't need any coaching on what his role is going to be, where he should line up on this play. And in fact, he can be acting as a coach on the field to help out these couple of guys who don't pay attention in meetings as much as they should and need to get lined up in the right place, right? I if the coach is having to spend most of his time telling that guy what to do, I I think that's just an inefficiency relative to what the best defenses are doing. They have some ability. I thought their defensive front in the second half stepped up. I saw some of those guys in the interior, Timere Jackson, Chancellor Owens, ⁓ played well in the second half. ⁓ Ryan Nolan's a good player. Jaden Bradley's a good player. but and and look, they only gave up seven points in the second half. That that's an important thing to note. And North Texas has a good offense and Tavan Jackson played really, really well. There is no question though that the Texas State secondary is going to be a serious problem. I mean, I think it's three hundred seventy pass yards against per game right now. They did play Arch. They played Archie. They played Arch. But they just five hundred. They just gave up four ninety two to a guy who had never thrown for three hundred in a college game and he's played a few college games. So and again, he's a talented quarterback. I'm not taking anything away from him. But I I would I don't like the sound of four ninety two ⁓ you know, against a guy who it was only has only started three games at North Texas, has bounced around college football and had never thrown for three hundred yards in a game before. He's a good quarterback. He's not a world beater. and ⁓ there were times when Texas State made him look like a world beater. What I will say is this, and and maybe some of this is motivated by the fact that I like him as a guy. And so if you want to write this off as as some kind of bias, you can do that. I think Will Windham is a very good hire for this program. And I think he knows what he's doing and that and he's gonna get things in moving in the right direction, especially with the resources that they ⁓ have and are continuing to build here. ⁓ I would not, on the basis of these three weeks, write off Will Windham as a defensive coordinator who is not capable of getting this this group where it should be. But right now, especially in the secondary, I mean look, he can't go out there and break up passes himself, right? Th there are limitations for this group that are unquestionably going to be a major factor. At the same time I wonder if that doesn't help Texas State's T V ratings this year, because if you were a Pac twelve fan and your team already played and you're like, All right, I'm looking for another Pac twelve game to watch. If you're a college football fan and your team already played and you're looking for another game to watch, why as a neutral fan would you not pick Texas State first every time? 'Cause you're probably gonna see eighty, ninety, a hundred points in that game because that's what's gonna have to happen for the Bobcats to win. That's true. Yeah, that was a big talking point was that every single like last year, especially people were just tuning into Texas State games and be like Man, the score's like forty one, forty five. Hey, I'm glad somebody has faith in Will Windham. That's all I gotta say. But I want to talk to about what you said earlier about a staying on the resume and literally to another group of six team at home. 'Cause you talked about earlier that's what happened to the Aztecs this past Saturday against JMU. Can just talk about how their season has been? I know that's been like the biggest challenge for them and they weren't able to get it done, but I mean they're showing some flash, especially in the running game. It hurts them also not to have a better home field environment. And I I know that that's a big talking point in San Diego. And I've in fact I've never been to San Diego in my life, so it's not my place to say why or why not or what they should be doing or whatever. But it's tough to play a game like that against a team that's traversing the entire country and not be able to provide a more difficult environment for them to come play. ⁓ you know, I and and that's not a criticism of San Diego State necessarily. i it's if anything, it's it's sympathizing with their players and their coaching staff because, you know, I think it'd be great to see that's a beautiful new stadium. It'd be great to see ⁓ a better environment for them and certainly those fans are capable of creating it. Nobody would say that San Diego State basketball struggles to create a good environment. ⁓ so I I think that was a little bit disappointing 'cause that was a big game. That was a big game for San Diego State. It was a big game for the Pac twelve and to lose it as authoritatively as they did is disappointing. ⁓ you know, there's no way around that. And and to me, that's it's sort of what we're talking around here is the bigger theme of this, which is that what's happened so far through three weeks in my mind, is Boise State has separated as clearly the top team in the league right now. Again, Western Michigan in Kalamazoo is gonna be a very challenging test. Probably more so than most people realize coming into the year. The fact that they quasi beat Michigan in week one was a really big really big boost for Boise State because that game didn't get any more difficult as a result of Western Michigan playing well against Michigan. What it did is make that game a lot more credible toward Boise State. It meant that the casual fan for the casual fan now recognizes the quality of Western Michigan. Maybe some committee members who don't watch group of six football as closely as they should, ⁓ now will will give that game a little bit more credence and Western Michigan a little more credence. So we'll we'll see how that looks. But Boise State, as of now, clearly has by some distance the strongest resume in the Pac-12, pretty much solely on the back of that that Memphis win. The Oregon loss as well, although it's it's really hard to know exactly what to make of Oregon right now. Kind of like we said about Utah State and Washington. I think the season's gonna have to go on a little bit more for us to know exactly if that Oregon seven point loss is as good a loss as we thought it was at the time. ⁓ but regardless, Boise State has separated a little bit. And then there's a big old cloud of dust. Right? I mean Utah State is at the bottom. I think you have to say Washington State is seven right now until they prove something more. And I I know they're very they're very capable of proving something. We'll get to that in a second. Coming into the year, you know, we'll talk about it, but coming into the year, I was very much on the Washington State train. That defense is still you know, there's a lot to believe in there. So I am not giving up on them. That's not my way of saying they're, you know, thrown by the wayside. But I think you have to put them seventh just based on w what the resumes are right now. And then I'm not sure there's all that much separation between two through six, frankly. That's a lot of teams to to bunch together, but I don't know where you're you're pointing at any of them and saying definitively, I feel really sure that team is number two and that one's number three. To me, any of those could shake out. And even Washington State, I don't feel comfortable saying is not gonna work their way back into that group. But it it's in very interesting posture. going into conference play and again I think speaks to what everybody thought would be the story of the Pac twelve, which is a a league that is very balanced and deep relative to its number of teams and will create competitive football week in and week out. Now, is that a cause for concern to some degree? W is this a league that might cannibalize itself? Certainly. I think that's something that we're going to be talking about a lot when we get into men's basketball season because to me Pac 12 men's basketball has five programs out of the nine that expect to be in the NCAA tournament more often than they're not. And it's hard to get the majority of your league into the NCAA tournament because somebody's got to lose your conference games. Right. Somebody's got to half your league has to lose. Every time eight teams are playing, four of them have to lose. That's just how it works. And so it's going to be difficult to get that many teams in. So I think that's going to be a theme as we get into the winner that we're talking about. It could apply to football a little bit too. But from just a fan standpoint, following the league, watching the actual football, forget about trying to add it all up and what's it gonna mean at the end, what are some old guys in suits gonna gonna do at the end of the year. I you know, I like to watch football and I think the football is gonna be really compelling. that the that two through six in particular, just the huge cloud of dust over them, I don't see any way to separate them until we get into conference games. And I will say on the San Diego State attendance I don't know how much it affects it, but Padres are in a playoff push. I don't know because that's college MLB, but I'll say that on behalf of Aztec Republic because I'll show some love to that. Very fair, very fair. And that's why, you know, like I said, I don't know the dynamic in San Diego. So it's not even really a criticism of anybody. I don't know ⁓ enough to comment one way or the other. All all I would have liked is for that to be a more difficult environment for JMU, considering the importance of that game. I I just I would have loved if there could have been a better ⁓ environment to give those San Diego State guys the very best chance they could have had. Yeah, because then they go to Toledo this next Saturday and that's another big game for them. Yeah, it bec and it becomes bigger because of last week, right? I mean, I I think ⁓ you you need to see a response and that's not easy to to travel most of the way across the country in the other direction, you know, go a couple of time zones east. ⁓ that's not easy for anybody. It's not easy for professional players. ⁓ so I I I think that'll be a an intriguing game as well. Do you guys got anything else? Yeah. D do you wanna do you wanna go through rankings real quick and I just wanted to ⁓ talk about Wazoo for a quick second. It doesn't have to be much at all. But I mean yeah, but also just I mean, you basically have already gone through every team, but there's a lot of good one and two teams and conference play hasn't even started. Like I've it, I mean ⁓ anybody could go win every conference game and be in the championship game. So there's a lot of football left to be played and that's what makes it fun, especially with that kind of blurred lines from two through six, maybe even seven. But for Wazoo it's really for me, it just seems like the running game and then Caden Pennick getting comfortable because he has had some mistakes. ⁓ he looks like a guy that's playing FBS football for the first time. But to me, and you tell me what you think, it just looks like the running game and then that game last week seemed to be a good confidence boost. For what Kirby Moore wants to do with the run game. And hey, two punt return touchdowns. So like if you can get some special teams boosts here and there, that takes a little bit of pressure off the offense as well. I really believe in the defense that they have, both the personnel and the coaching staff in the scheme. ⁓ obviously, you know, the way things ended for Trent Bray in Corvallis, he might have had some doubters ⁓ around the Pac twelve, but there should be no question as to the caliber of defensive coordinator that he is. On the offensive side, one of the things I'm gonna be keeping an eye on, and we're gonna have Washington State next week in the Pac twelve opener. We'll have a couple of ⁓ we'll have them a couple of times in October. One of the things I'm gonna be keeping an eye on, well, first of all, that Fresno State Wazoo game, it maybe we'll be there all night waiting for somebody to kick a field goal. I don't know. Hopefully, hopefully we can get some points on the board in that game. Three zero, man. But to that end I'm always interested, this is not a Washington State specific comment necessarily. I'm always interested anytime you have a first year coach from an offensive background, like Kirby Moore, who was OC the last three years at Mile Modern Missouri, and got this job essentially because of his play calling ability and his ability to dictate an offense and a game plan and a game flow. Anytime that guy gives up play calling duties, which generally people say is the right thing to do as a head coach, especially a first year head coach. especially now with how many responsibilities are on coaches from fundraising standpoint, from a constant recruiting cycle standpoint, and how much they have to deal with, it's hard to also be the play caller. But anytime an offense struggles early in one of those guys' tenures, the noise starts pretty quickly of, hey, we brought in a guy because he's a great play caller. Our offense is struggling. Why is the great play caller not calling our plays? And I think it'll be interesting to see how, if at all his level of involvement in the drive to drive, even play to play offense for Wazoo evolves over the course of the season. ⁓ that's not to say that it will. Maybe they stick to what they're doing. ⁓ I did see it noted that he had a play sheet in his hand ⁓ in the Duquesne game. I I how much is he involved in that? I I don't know. But that's gonna be a story that we have to keep an eye on. I didn't think their offense was sufficiently creative in the Washington game, which is the only one I got to see start to finish. And some of that, to your point, might be that they have an FCS transfer quarterback and a lot of new pieces. They lost Freeman at the ACL, which really hurt. so maybe they just can't necessarily execute at a more complex level. And so the simplified offense is just what they have right now. And that's all there is to it. But I I would like to see a few more layers to what they're doing offensively, a little bit more nuanced. And so I I'm just gonna be keeping an eye on how much Kirby Moore starts to to dip a hand into the the offensive minutia the season goes on. All right. What'd you say, Brett? You wanna get into it? I just wanted to talk about rankings real quick 'cause you said you were kinda talking about how there's not a definitive two and maybe two through six is kinda kinda cloudy. We we released some rankings actually in our episode this week and I wanted to see your thoughts on it. ⁓ we'll go eight through one. I have Utah State, Washington State, San Diego State, Texas State, Fresno State, Colorado State, and Oregon State as the definitive number two. Would you would you agree with that or do you think is there anything that you would change? I might knock Fresno State down a Come on two. Come on, man. Brett Brett's biased as But again, this is just based on what they've proven. Like I'm not in the business of prognosticating. Like that's not my job. My job is to react to whatever I've already seen. ⁓ so I would be fine with almost any order that you laid out, including the one that you did, because I just don't think there's a lot of separation two through six or even two through seven. ⁓ you know, ⁓ that's to me, that's gonna be the fun part of of conference play. And then the other piece of it is We're gonna be ⁓ while we're focused on that cloud of dust in the middle, every week somebody's gonna get their shot at Boise State too. And there's gonna be a target on their back. Including, I think maybe especially from Oregon State and Washington State who are saying, Hold on, we're the the Pac twelve residents, right? We've been here. You are the newcomer. How come you get to be the prohibitive favorite? The you know, the 'cause coming into the year, they were the prohibitive favorite, they were the biggest favorite To win this league of any conference in in the entire country in FBS. They were a bigger favorite to win the Pac-Twelve than any other favorite to win their respective leagues around the country. And I think that maybe didn't go over the best in some other places around the league. And then there are other places like San Diego or like Fresno where they don't need to be taught to have a little resentment toward Boise State, right? That that's been there for a while. ⁓ and you know, Fresno State has had to that point has had some very good performances against Boise State, including last year, albeit in a game where Maddox Madsen went out with injuries. So, you know, we don't know exactly what to make of of that necessarily. Boise State people, I think, would write that game off a little bit more than Fresno State people would. Either way, though, I think that'll be a fun dynamic too. In any given week, you're probably gonna have one, if not two or three games featuring those middle teams playing each other, trying to establish who's the number two, who's the number three. But you're also gonna get somebody from that group almost every week taking their shot at Boise State, and that could cause real chaos in the league. If Boise State picks up a a loss or two in October, that could really cloud things even more. And I just want to add one short short question ⁓ of the games that you have with Ryan Leaf and Lauren Green in conference play. Is there one you're really excited to see? 'Cause I know we got the Memphis Boise answer from you, but conference play, you mentioned Washington State Fresno State. I don't I don't know if you have that one. They do have that one, I believe. We do have that. That'll be ⁓ next Saturday to open ⁓ Pac twelve play. I would have said coming into the year that Boise State at Washington State was one that I really had circled. obviously the way that Wazoo has played offensively so far, it just it puts them in a t in a tougher spot. Frankly, now we go back to back Oregon State games ⁓ in October, and then we have them ⁓ again against Boise State in November And those now look very, very interesting. Up until until we see Oregon State, my answer to that question is gonna be I can't wait to see Oregon State in person for the first time. I can't wait to meet their people and to see them in person because what they have put on tape so far, albeit without winning either of those two games that they had in the first two weeks, ⁓ but playing very, very competitively. And, you know, I think it would have been great for the league if OSU could have gotten over the line in one of those games. But nonetheless, I think they did enough to at the very least put the conference on notice, put me on notice, ⁓ that that this was a better Oregon State team already than what we were giving them credit for. And ⁓ you know, so I I think I have to say now the Oregon the three Oregon State games ⁓ we will likely have ⁓ as conference play goes on. But again, to the point of what we're talking about, like with how dynamic this is right now and how many unknowns there are. If we talked again in two weeks, I I might have a different answer because things will have evolved and ⁓ you know, maybe Caden Pennick and the Washington State offense starts to click and I'm back to talking about that. Maybe ⁓ the Fresno State offense gets it going and I'm and I'm changing my tune there. you know, and and I I love how dynamic this league is and how much parody there's gonna be in it. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, for now I would say Oregon State. Well Just real quick before we wrap it up, Nate, I just want to say thank you. ⁓ 'cause before your first interview, ⁓ I think the you know, when we were getting the show started, I think like the overall perception and maybe it wasn't a big perception, was like ⁓ just another group of meatheads starting a podcast, like what's new. We didn't have a single episode over a hundred views yet. No, and and then and then when you came on that first time, again, thank you so much. It really I think it really elevated us and it really helped people take us seriously and now we're starting to see our numbers really start to go up as of recent, man. And I I just want to say I think that's a big part of, you know, because of you coming on that first time and taking the time to sit with us, you know, this group of of like I said, meatheads, you know, starting a sports podcast. So I just want to say again from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for doing this for us and taking the time to sit with us and again helping us elevate the show to, you know, what we think it can be and, you know, h helping us get there. You you guys are very, very welcome. ⁓ in my mind, everybody in and around the Pac twelve is in the same boat. ⁓ I've used the word a few times and it's kind of a a college athletics buzzword. In fact, I think I used it the first time I was with you guys, ⁓ the word alignment. And that word is is quickly getting to doesn't mean anything status in college sports because it's just being used all the time. But in this sense, I'm using it to mean I think we have a conference administration itself, member schools, fan bases, and media partners in this league who are all committed to doing the very best that we can by the institutions and by their supporters. And when you have that, I think there is a very, very high ceiling for what can be accomplished. ⁓ and you guys are just as much a part of that as everybody else is, and just as much as we are. And The other piece that I'll say, and this might be beyond what the average Pac twelve listener cares about, is that I think student radio is really important. ⁓ and I'm glad to see the commitment that's made to KTSW here at Texas State. ⁓ you know, without student radio, I probably would not be where I am right now. And although the average person probably doesn't care about student radio, they probably do care about having good talk show hosts and play by play announcers and media types to whose content and whose work they consume. And maybe they don't realize it, but student radio is where a lot of that starts. So ⁓ you know, that that's a credit to you guys individually, ⁓ but also to the infrastructure that's in place here to give you the opportunities ⁓ and to support you and your classmates because you know, a a lot of people don't get that. at this stage and and it's really, really important. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, man. Can't say anything more. I'm about to say if you got anything left you want to say, you can say it now, but that rap about wraps up the interview. Up to Pac twelve, baby. Up the pack up to Pac Twelve. Well thank you so much to Nate guy for being on for the second time ever, but first time in person, just as special as the first time. That'll do it for this episode of Pac Twelve. We will still have our week four episode. Don't worry, that'll come out as usual time. Also do the recap and a preview of week five. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you listen wherever you get your podcast and follow us on social media, Instagram, ⁓ Twitter, X, YouTube, it's all there. Thank you so much for listening. See y'all next time.