Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Devil Mom stands by while 'boyfriend' rapes, murders, dismembers her own teen-girl daughter Grace Packer

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Devil Mom stands by while 'boyfriend' rapes, murders, dismembers her own teen-girl daughter Grace Packer · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The couple were fulfilling a
0:13
Speaker 1: sick fantasy. She was lovable little girl. Prosecutors say, Sullivan
0:17
Speaker 1: beat and rape Grace. It's unspeakable, some sort of rape fantasy.
0:21
Speaker 1: The crimes she is accused of are sick, kidnapped, raped,
0:25
Speaker 1: and murdered her adopted daughter, Grace Packer, she matters to us,
0:29
Speaker 1: she managed to the community. The hours and the days
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Speaker 1: leading up to her murder were probably the most horrible
0:35
Speaker 1: and traumatic that any person should ever have had to experience.
0:40
Speaker 1: Anonia three years. I'm just so so distraught. A fourteen
0:48
Speaker 1: year old little girl, raped, murdered and dismembered. Bye bye,
0:58
Speaker 1: mommy's boyfriend, Jacob Sullivan, I Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.
1:06
Speaker 1: We want justice. Joining me? Ellen Colorin from crime online
1:12
Speaker 1: dot Com. Ellen, what happened to fourteen year old Grace Dante.
1:18
Speaker 1: Grace Packer was fourteen years old when her own mother
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Speaker 1: and her mother's boyfriend, Jacob Sullivan, brought her to a
1:26
Speaker 1: home that they had rented at Bucks County. She was
1:29
Speaker 1: in her pajamas when they took her there. Jacob Sullivan
1:33
Speaker 1: hit her in the face. Okay, wait Waite, white, White
1:36
Speaker 1: right there, right there, right there. You know, I want
1:40
Speaker 1: to go to Kathleen Murphy. Guys with me and All
1:42
Speaker 1: Star panel. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer Karen Smith,
1:46
Speaker 1: forensics expert, doctor Michelle Dupree, renowned medical examiner, author of
1:51
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigative Field Guide, Forensics psychiatrist, doctor Daniel Bober, Crime
1:57
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter Rob Willinski, author of Beautiful
2:02
Speaker 1: Life CSI behind Casey Anthony Trial on Amazon. To Kathleen Murphy,
2:08
Speaker 1: Kathleen Lucy insisted, we go to Goodwill this weekend, and
2:14
Speaker 1: she got all these psychedelic colored pants. They just kind
2:19
Speaker 1: of hang on her. They're like a jersey, and she's
2:22
Speaker 1: sleeping in them. I washed him and drive him. She's
2:24
Speaker 1: sleeping in them. And when she and John David get
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Speaker 1: et their baths and they come in and their little pj's,
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Speaker 1: I've never seen anything more precious in my life. And
2:39
Speaker 1: they're so innocent, and they're so trusting and sweet. They
2:42
Speaker 1: come in and their pj's and their little bedroom shoes,
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Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking of little Grace Packer. She's just
2:49
Speaker 1: three years, two and a half years older than the twins,
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Speaker 1: and her little PJS. I can't. I just can't. I
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Speaker 1: can't imagine. I can't think about it. And livid that
3:02
Speaker 1: this woman was allowed to continue fostering this child in
3:10
Speaker 1: light of the previous allegations of her husband. And I'm
3:14
Speaker 1: livid that she was able to manipulate the system, and
3:17
Speaker 1: I'm livid at Social Service. There's just mostly I'm livid
3:23
Speaker 1: at the criminals. I'm besides, I want I want him
3:26
Speaker 1: to get the death penalty. But the mother, her own mom,
3:32
Speaker 1: part of this, you know, ak Ellen colaurin Crimeline dot
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Speaker 1: com Investigate reporter, I've gotten ahead of myself. But first
3:39
Speaker 1: of all, I want to know what happened to fourteen
3:43
Speaker 1: year old Grace Nancy. What happened was absolutely horrific. At
3:47
Speaker 1: that home in July, Jacob Sullivan beat her and and
3:52
Speaker 1: he raped her, and Sarah Packer, her own mother, stood
3:55
Speaker 1: by and watched and encouraged it. They gave her some
3:59
Speaker 1: over the coin, her sleeping pills. They tie her up,
4:02
Speaker 1: they bound her with zip ties, and they brought her
4:04
Speaker 1: up to an attic and they stucked her into a
4:07
Speaker 1: sweltering hot cedar closet and then they left. And when
4:12
Speaker 1: they came back hours later, several hours later, possibly up
4:16
Speaker 1: to twelve, Jacob Sullivan told detectives he expected her to
4:20
Speaker 1: be dead, but she wasn't. She was still alive. So again,
4:23
Speaker 1: with Sarah Packer, the girl's own mother, standing by, Jacob
4:27
Speaker 1: Sullivan strangled the girl to death, and then they left
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Speaker 1: her there with the mom standing by, with the mom
4:37
Speaker 1: right there, I don't get it to doctor Daniel Bober.
4:41
Speaker 1: I need a shrink. Forensic psychiatrist, Doctor Daniel Bob are
4:45
Speaker 1: joining me. So the mom stands by while her so
4:49
Speaker 1: called boyfriend sex assaults, murders, then comes back the child
4:57
Speaker 1: is still somehow alive, and then he finishes the murder
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Speaker 1: and dismembers her. I don't understand it, and apparently it
5:09
Speaker 1: was part of some fantasy. What fantasy, doctor Bober. Let's
5:13
Speaker 1: just start without what fantasy? You know what, Nancy, I've
5:16
Speaker 1: been involved in child custody cases like this, and it's
5:20
Speaker 1: it's incomprehensible. I mean, it goes against every maternal instinct.
5:24
Speaker 1: You know, you would lay down your life for your child,
5:25
Speaker 1: you would take a bullet for your child. And this
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Speaker 1: is someone who basically participated in her rape and murder
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Speaker 1: and did it so callously it just goes against you know,
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Speaker 1: every sort of biological theory of evolution that you're supposed
5:37
Speaker 1: to protect your child. That's really haining. I don't understand
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Speaker 1: the moms standing by. To doctor Michelle Duprie, medical examiner,
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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor Dupree, people think
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Speaker 1: they've dismembered a body. It never turns out that way
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Speaker 1: when you dismember a body. It's not like on TV
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Speaker 1: or in the movies. I mean, there's really no way
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Speaker 1: you can get rid of all that evidence. You're right, Nancy,
6:02
Speaker 1: That's why I call it cs I. You can't get
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Speaker 1: rid of all the evidence. And to this number, a
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Speaker 1: body is much much harder than you may think. You know.
6:10
Speaker 1: What's so ironic to Kathleen Murphy, Grace's adoptive mom, Sarah Packer,
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Speaker 1: actually once worked Northampton County, and not only that, child
6:22
Speaker 1: Services new abuse was happening in the home, and they
6:26
Speaker 1: never took Grace out of the home. If you look
6:30
Speaker 1: at Grace Packer, she looks like any other teen girl,
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Speaker 1: just happy, smiling. Nobody had any idea the way that
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Speaker 1: she was being abused in the home. It's just as
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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, when she tried to escape. She
6:48
Speaker 1: was strangled and dismembered and stored in cat litter. Help
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Speaker 1: me out with that. This mother was clearly manipulated, the coworkers,
7:01
Speaker 1: manipulating the social workers, manipulating the system. Her husband was
7:06
Speaker 1: arrested for abusing the older child. They knew that something
7:12
Speaker 1: was going on in the house, but they're only human
7:16
Speaker 1: and they're overworked. I just cannot comprehend it. They knew
7:21
Speaker 1: about abuse in the home and they did nothing. I
7:26
Speaker 1: don't care how many cases they had. This girl is
7:29
Speaker 1: dead and they had the opportunity to fix it, and
7:33
Speaker 1: they did nothing. This little girl's life ended in hell. Hell,
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Speaker 1: And it's amazing to me, Karen Smith, with me forensics expert.
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Speaker 1: You just go to a red light. You look around,
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Speaker 1: there is a freak around you and somebody evil. I
7:54
Speaker 1: don't know who they are, because these people seemingly carried
7:57
Speaker 1: on normal lives and they had this city fantasy going on.
8:01
Speaker 1: What did they possibly think? To Karen Smith? How how
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Speaker 1: is cat litter going to? What um stop the body
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Speaker 1: from decomposing? Stop the smell of decomposure? What what? Karen? Well,
8:14
Speaker 1: it won't stop that, It won't stop the decomposition. Process.
8:18
Speaker 1: It acts as a desscint um. It absorbs some of
8:23
Speaker 1: the decompositional fluids and it may stop some of that.
8:28
Speaker 1: But what it won't do is is stop the odor.
8:31
Speaker 1: It won't stop the process. So while they had this,
8:36
Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart. They had this little girl's
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Speaker 1: body in an attic, in a cardboard box filled with
8:42
Speaker 1: with cat litter for four months, four months before they
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Speaker 1: decided to take her body out into a bathroom in
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Speaker 1: the upstairs of this home and dismember it with a
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Speaker 1: bow saw um and then they discarded her body into
9:00
Speaker 1: the woods where it was subsequently found. So, you know,
9:04
Speaker 1: I would defer to the medical examiner and what that
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Speaker 1: would look like. I have kind of an idea that
9:09
Speaker 1: it would be a little bit mummified, But at this point,
9:12
Speaker 1: the forensic evidence inside that house would absolutely be overwhelming.
9:16
Speaker 1: Nancy overwhelming. Joining me, Robin Willinski, Crime Online dot Com
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, author of Beautiful Life CSI, behind the Casey
9:24
Speaker 1: Anthony Trial on Amazon. Robin Willinski, let me ask you this.
9:30
Speaker 1: The murder of this little fourteen year old girl is
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Speaker 1: especially deprived. All murders are immortal sin. What can you
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Speaker 1: tell us about mom? Sarah Packer and her boyfriend Jacob Sullivan. Well,
9:44
Speaker 1: they were saying that, you know, she was this out
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Speaker 1: of control fourteen year old. You know that she had problems,
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Speaker 1: that she was a pain in the whatever. But you
9:55
Speaker 1: know what fourteen year olds are that way. You and
9:58
Speaker 1: I were once fourteen years old, And maybe she was,
10:01
Speaker 1: and maybe she wasn't. Maybe she was just an adolescent
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Speaker 1: with the same problems that every other adolescent girl or
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Speaker 1: boy experiences. And they were saying that she was a
10:12
Speaker 1: problem kid. But why in the world are you making
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Speaker 1: her at fourteen at part of your sex fantasy with
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Speaker 1: a gag in her mouth and all the rest of it?
10:23
Speaker 1: Ellen Colaurin with me Crime Online investigative reporter Ellen, what
10:26
Speaker 1: could be a possible motive? Believe it or not? Nancy
10:29
Speaker 1: Bucks County District Attorney A. Matthew Weintraub said that the
10:33
Speaker 1: motive for this was a rape and murder fantasy. Sarah
10:37
Speaker 1: Packer was sexually aroused by the violence that was committed
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Speaker 1: to her daughter and by watching it and by refusing
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Speaker 1: to help her. Okay, you know what that is just sick.
10:51
Speaker 1: The mother deserves the death penalty too. We're here because
10:54
Speaker 1: we just made an arrest in the Grace Packer homicide.
10:58
Speaker 1: Today we arrested and brought in for Raymond her mother,
11:02
Speaker 1: Sarah Packer. As you know, about twelve hours ago, her
11:05
Speaker 1: code defendant was arrayed, and that was Jacob Sullivan. They've
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Speaker 1: been charged with substantially the same charges with one exceptions.
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Speaker 1: We believe and we will prove at trial that Sarah
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Speaker 1: Packer was complicit in her daughter's murder, and that she
11:23
Speaker 1: materially participated in the planning and in the aftermath of
11:29
Speaker 1: the murder. You know, he needs the death penalty badly implemented.
11:35
Speaker 1: Now I the blue. After a jury finally gives them
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Speaker 1: the death penalty, they put a moratorium on it in Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 1: So I guess the Pennsylvania you can have a sick rape,
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Speaker 1: torture fantasy on a little girl, had her body up
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Speaker 1: stewart and cat litter, and there's no chance you'll ever
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Speaker 1: get the death penalty in Pennsylvania. That's a thought to
12:00
Speaker 1: just mull over. Take a listen to this. How could
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Speaker 1: any mother do this to a child, to their child.
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Speaker 1: I don't have an answer. A crime so twisted seasoned
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Speaker 1: prosecutors are left without words. Bucks County District Attorney Matt
12:15
Speaker 1: Weintrobe announcing the arrest of forty one year old Sarah
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Speaker 1: Packer in the rape, murder, and dismemberment of Packer's fourteen
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Speaker 1: year old adoptive daughter, Grace. Packer reported the team missing
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Speaker 1: in July from their Abington Township home. Hunters found the
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Speaker 1: child's body in October in rural Luzerne County. She was beaten,
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Speaker 1: she was raped, she was sexually assaulted, and then she
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Speaker 1: was dumped like garbage up in the woods. Police a
12:40
Speaker 1: Packer and her boyfriend, Jacob Sullivan planned Grace's murder in
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Speaker 1: order to act out a sick rape and murder fantasy,
12:47
Speaker 1: then claimed that she was missing to throw police off
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Speaker 1: the trail. It worked. Prosecutors say the couple stored Grace's
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Speaker 1: body an upstairs addict before dumping it. Despite a search,
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Speaker 1: police never found the body. Authority already say detectives at
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Speaker 1: that time still believe the child was missing and poor
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Speaker 1: Grace was stored in a cedar closet while covered with
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Speaker 1: mothballs and kitty litteral to them, she was unfortunately a
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Speaker 1: disposable child. Really shake Swan's belief in the goodness of humanity.
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Speaker 1: And it really does. That's our friends at wt x
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Speaker 1: F Fox twenty nine. Sabrina Korea Coost. I mean I
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Speaker 1: am sick that not only did moms live in murder
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Speaker 1: this child, the mother Sarah Packer, stood by and let
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Speaker 1: her daughter be sex assaulted, gagged, drugged and murdered as
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Speaker 1: part of her own sick fantasy. To Ellen Kalora joining
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Speaker 1: me from crime online dot com, do you believe that
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Speaker 1: one person was the mastermind and the other person went along,
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Speaker 1: which we so often see or no, you know, hold
14:01
Speaker 1: on now, I'm going to circle back to you to
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Speaker 1: doctor Bob or forensic psychiatrists. What is that dynamic when
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Speaker 1: one person is the mastermind and someone else goes along?
14:11
Speaker 1: Have you seen that in any other cases? You know what, Nancy?
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Speaker 1: Do you I've brought up this case before, but do
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Speaker 1: you remember Carlo Hamolka and Paul Bernardo in Canada when
14:21
Speaker 1: Paul Bernardo and Carlo Carlo Hamolta they used the sister
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Speaker 1: as a spec slave in a rape fantasy and she
14:27
Speaker 1: ended up dying and her own sister participated in her
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Speaker 1: rape and murder. And then she went on, you know,
14:33
Speaker 1: to participate in other crimes that are very similar. So
14:36
Speaker 1: in that particular case, I just think that Carla had
14:39
Speaker 1: such poor self concept that she basically went along with
14:42
Speaker 1: anything the guy wanted. But in this case, it's very
14:45
Speaker 1: different because you're dealing with a mother again, who you
14:48
Speaker 1: would think would have her first instinct would be to
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Speaker 1: protect her child, and that's not what happened here. And
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Speaker 1: to Kathleen Murphy in North Carolina, you see so much
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Speaker 1: of this where the mom or the woman just stands
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Speaker 1: by and does nothing when the child is getting abused.
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Speaker 1: She should obviously be in court, she should obviously go
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Speaker 1: to jail. She should obviously be punished, and I believe
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Speaker 1: she should be punished equally. This girl would be protected
15:16
Speaker 1: if she had taken steps to remove her from this
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Speaker 1: god awful But I don't get it, doctor Bober. Why
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Speaker 1: does one person go along with the heinous axe of
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Speaker 1: the mastermind? Why? You know what, Nancy, Obviously the mother
15:30
Speaker 1: herself has some underlying mental health issues. She's a weak person,
15:35
Speaker 1: and she was, you know, more than complicit, She was
15:38
Speaker 1: an active participant in it. So it's hard to say,
15:41
Speaker 1: but obviously we need to know more about her background.
15:44
Speaker 1: Um you know too, Ellen Colorin, let me ask you
15:49
Speaker 1: another question, because they answered that Packer and Sullivan are
15:55
Speaker 1: already decidedly guilty within this system. But aside from that,
16:03
Speaker 1: how did the system fail this little girl? And before
16:07
Speaker 1: you even start, Ellen, I want to tell you something.
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Speaker 1: You know, the mother, Grace Packer, worked within the child system,
16:13
Speaker 1: and I think that's why Child Services did not take
16:17
Speaker 1: the children away from her, even when they neither was abuse.
16:22
Speaker 1: They were protecting one of their own, Nancy. I think
16:25
Speaker 1: that's very possible because I can't explain in any other way.
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Speaker 1: Sarah and her and her ex husband David Packer had
16:32
Speaker 1: fostered dozens of children and fostered Grace before they adopted her.
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Speaker 1: David Packer Packer would found guilty of sexual abuse. Grace
16:42
Speaker 1: Packer was believed to be one of his victims. This
16:45
Speaker 1: is going back to two thousand and eleven, five years
16:49
Speaker 1: before she was killed. David's arrest in conviction was enough
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Speaker 1: for Sarah Packer to finally lose her job in child Services,
16:58
Speaker 1: but it wasn't enough to have the children removed from
17:01
Speaker 1: the home. I don't understand that. Wait, are you telling
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Speaker 1: me that Grace was a victim of Jacob Sullivan. Back
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Speaker 1: into David Packer O that okay. David Packer, Sarah Packer's
17:12
Speaker 1: first husband. Yes, it was a known thing that children
17:16
Speaker 1: were being abused in her home. It was enough to
17:19
Speaker 1: get her fired, but the children remained in the How
17:23
Speaker 1: long was her history of abusing children? I mean she
17:27
Speaker 1: had been bringing in foster children for a really long time,
17:30
Speaker 1: for over a decade, maybe maybe a decade and a half.
17:34
Speaker 1: And there was an accusation, no conviction, but there was
17:37
Speaker 1: an accusation of abuse against David Packer going back to
17:41
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. It was two eleven that he
17:44
Speaker 1: was convicted and sent back to jail, sent to jail,
17:47
Speaker 1: but the accusations were years earlier. You know. That's something
17:50
Speaker 1: I don't understand. Robin Willinski's jointing me Crime Online investigative reporter.
17:54
Speaker 1: It seems like the mother or Sarah Packer, she gets
17:58
Speaker 1: rid of David Packer or the first husband who was
18:00
Speaker 1: convicted of abusing little Grace, and then she just basically
18:04
Speaker 1: replaces him. He's cog in the wheel with Jacob Sullivan
18:07
Speaker 1: and the abuse goes on. Yeah, she goes for the
18:10
Speaker 1: same thing twice. It's a pattern for her, and she's
18:13
Speaker 1: involved with these psycho men that are abusing children, and
18:18
Speaker 1: you know, she reminds me of someone who was in
18:20
Speaker 1: a cult who is so mesmerized by the leader that
18:24
Speaker 1: she's willing to drink the kool aid of these men
18:27
Speaker 1: and whatever they tell her to do, and whatever fantasy
18:30
Speaker 1: Nancy they present, she goes along with it. Crime Stories
18:48
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace of Court talks to me in the
18:57
Speaker 1: state that on July eighth, the couple took Grace from
19:00
Speaker 1: Sarah Packer's home in Abington to a home in Quaker Town.
19:03
Speaker 1: According to detectives. Sullivan says the couple attack Race, sexually
19:07
Speaker 1: assaulted her, and drugged her before he strangled her. They
19:11
Speaker 1: kept her body and night the Grace had gone missing
19:14
Speaker 1: to Abington police. Well Sullivan has quoted in the report
19:17
Speaker 1: saying during the investigation, the couple became scared of being caught,
19:21
Speaker 1: so they dismembered Grace's body with a bosaw and dumped
19:25
Speaker 1: her remains in Bear Creek Township. The remains were found
19:28
Speaker 1: in October. Dental records proved the remains were Graces. No
19:33
Speaker 1: I repeatedly asked Sarah, coming in and out of court
19:36
Speaker 1: if she in fact did this. She kept her head
19:38
Speaker 1: down and said nothing you are hearing ABC six reporter
19:43
Speaker 1: Bob Brooks and one of the most heinous cases I
19:46
Speaker 1: have ever heard of. I want to go to Ellen Colorin. Ellen,
19:53
Speaker 1: what were these two doing during the four months that
19:58
Speaker 1: she knew her daughter having been sex assaulted brutally with
20:04
Speaker 1: a gag in her mouth, as mommy stood by and
20:07
Speaker 1: watched to happen murdered. When the first murder attempt didn't work,
20:12
Speaker 1: they left her lying there and a sweltering attic dying
20:16
Speaker 1: come back in he Jacob Sullivan finishes the murder by
20:21
Speaker 1: strangling her dad as a girl just you know at
20:24
Speaker 1: that point couldn't fight back anymore, and Sarah Packers stood
20:27
Speaker 1: by and let it happen. Then they dismember her with
20:31
Speaker 1: a bosaw. They put her body in cat litter and
20:36
Speaker 1: finally throw the body away. But what were they doing
20:41
Speaker 1: in the four months, all the months that they knew
20:47
Speaker 1: little Grace was sitting in a cardboard box. Nancy, It's
20:51
Speaker 1: almost hard to believe that anyone could do this, But
20:55
Speaker 1: those people kept that body, kept that little girl body
21:00
Speaker 1: in a closet and an attic for months before police
21:04
Speaker 1: came knocking. And they went up there every single day
21:08
Speaker 1: they lived there with another woman who they were in
21:10
Speaker 1: a polyamorous relationship, and they stop, stop stop stop, Okay,
21:20
Speaker 1: poly amorous relationship. Kathleen Murphy, you're the divorce lawyer. Could
21:27
Speaker 1: you just explain what that means? A polyamorous relationship in
21:31
Speaker 1: North Carolina is not legally recognized. But it's more than
21:36
Speaker 1: two people in a faux marriage. So it's two people
21:42
Speaker 1: plus one plus two plus three. You know what, it
21:46
Speaker 1: sounds like a bunch of cats and dogs. Really, I mean,
21:51
Speaker 1: you can call it Ellen KLORNA don't know what koolaid
21:54
Speaker 1: you've been drinking. A polyamorous relationship that means everybody sleeping together.
22:00
Speaker 1: And I'm not judging. I couldn't care less what other
22:03
Speaker 1: people do in their own private time. But when you
22:06
Speaker 1: bring a child into the scenario, that changes things. I
22:14
Speaker 1: don't care who sleeps with who, cats and dogs sleeping together,
22:18
Speaker 1: to take a phrase from Ghostbusters. But doctor Michelle dupre
22:23
Speaker 1: joining me, let's just bring it home. What happened to
22:28
Speaker 1: this little girl's body, doctor dupree, Nancy, what happened to
22:33
Speaker 1: this little girl's body? And this amount of time is
22:36
Speaker 1: most likely it would start to mummify because of the
22:40
Speaker 1: way that it was. It was hell, which would make
22:44
Speaker 1: it very difficult for some things to occur, for example,
22:48
Speaker 1: some types of identification. You know, maybe obliteratus, but for
22:52
Speaker 1: the most part, it would simply start to mummify or dehydrate. Well, then,
22:58
Speaker 1: how do you perform an autopsy on a mummified body.
23:02
Speaker 1: It can be done, it's just that it's much tougher,
23:05
Speaker 1: and we can still not in this case. But in
23:08
Speaker 1: cases if we needed to get fingerprints, we simply rehydrate
23:12
Speaker 1: the fingertips to actually be able to get fingerprints. Okay,
23:15
Speaker 1: stop right there, there's something new to me. What do
23:17
Speaker 1: you mean you rehydrate it rehydrate a body? Well, we
23:23
Speaker 1: rehydrate the fingertips. If we needed to get fingerprints, we
23:25
Speaker 1: wouldn't rehydrate. What does that mean rehydrate? Break it down.
23:30
Speaker 1: It means that we put water back into the tissue.
23:35
Speaker 1: So for fingerprints, how do you do that? How do
23:38
Speaker 1: you do that? For fingerprints? We would take a syringe
23:41
Speaker 1: filled with water and simply inject it underneath the skin
23:45
Speaker 1: so that it plumps back up the tissue so that
23:48
Speaker 1: we're able to then roll the fingerprints and get it
23:51
Speaker 1: a sample. But we wouldn't do people ask me all
23:54
Speaker 1: the time, how do you sleep at night? Don't I
23:55
Speaker 1: don't really know how I sleep at night. But now
23:57
Speaker 1: that I've heard that, I'd like for you to see
24:00
Speaker 1: me a detailed email about how you sleep at night.
24:02
Speaker 1: Rehydrating a body by injecting water into the fingerprints the
24:10
Speaker 1: fingertips so you can get a print. Okay, I almost
24:14
Speaker 1: wish I hadn't even asked that. No offense to you,
24:17
Speaker 1: of course, Doctor Dupree, listen to this. This has been
24:21
Speaker 1: a arduous two and a half year journey that we've
24:26
Speaker 1: had to take, always keeping Grace in the forefront of
24:29
Speaker 1: our minds. And I remember way back when, on that cold,
24:34
Speaker 1: cold night when we locked up Sullivan and his codefendant,
24:38
Speaker 1: who has yet to be judged what we hope will
24:41
Speaker 1: be tomorrow Sarah Packer, that I asked a question rhetorically,
24:45
Speaker 1: who would speak for Grace? And I pledged that we would,
24:50
Speaker 1: and not only have we, what the jury of Bucks
24:54
Speaker 1: County citizens has judged and has spoke for Grace loud
24:57
Speaker 1: and clear and gotten her justice on this terminal case.
25:00
Speaker 1: At candidly, I'm sure I'm anticipating what you're all gonna
25:03
Speaker 1: ask me, what do I think of the sentence you
25:05
Speaker 1: got what you deserve, plain and simple. That's this appropriate
25:08
Speaker 1: sentence for this matter. Guys, I want to pause. When
25:12
Speaker 1: do you want to spot the burglar when he's outside
25:16
Speaker 1: casing your home or when he's already inside. John had
25:21
Speaker 1: a Blink camera, it'll learned him. Or burglars trying to
25:24
Speaker 1: break in while he and his family are actually home.
25:28
Speaker 1: Or Shannon her Blink camera caught a thief stealing packages.
25:32
Speaker 1: Both times Blink video clips sent to cops to get
25:36
Speaker 1: the bad guys. Blink Motion Activate activated indoor outdoor cameras
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Speaker 1: protect dot com slash Nancy blink Protect dot com slash
26:23
Speaker 1: Nancy blink Protect dot com slash. Nancy Blink is an
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Speaker 1: Amazon company and it works with Alexa or. Grace was
26:37
Speaker 1: stored in a cedar closet while covered with a mothball
26:41
Speaker 1: of mothballs and kitty letter, I believe, so that she
26:45
Speaker 1: would not rot. We have information that Sarah Packer was
26:49
Speaker 1: the one that reported Grace Packer missing so that she
26:53
Speaker 1: could throw the police and investigators off of the trail
26:58
Speaker 1: to try to dispel any kind of evidence of guilt
27:01
Speaker 1: on her part or that of her lover. Think that
27:03
Speaker 1: there was just a fixation in the minds of the
27:06
Speaker 1: code defendants that they wanted to see a certain result
27:09
Speaker 1: come about to satisfy some six perverted fantasy of theirs,
27:13
Speaker 1: and they needed a reality. They made it happen. And
27:16
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with who Grace Packer was
27:18
Speaker 1: to them. She was, unfortunately a disposable child, and that's
27:22
Speaker 1: nowhere near acceptable to Ellen Colora. What more can you
27:25
Speaker 1: tell me about what they were doing all this time?
27:27
Speaker 1: They were storing their daughter's body, Grace Packer, a little girl.
27:33
Speaker 1: Sarah Packer knew Grace was being stored upstairs, dismembered in
27:37
Speaker 1: cat litter. They were up and down every single day
27:40
Speaker 1: next to Grace's dead body, and they installed a sex
27:46
Speaker 1: swing right outside the door of the closet where Grace
27:51
Speaker 1: was buried in cat litter. See, Ellen, you can't just
27:54
Speaker 1: drop something like that on my head and not explain it.
27:57
Speaker 1: What do you mean a sex swing? Well, I don't
28:01
Speaker 1: know exactly how these things work, but it with. The
28:05
Speaker 1: prosecutors described it in court as as a swing that
28:08
Speaker 1: they would use as part of their whatever it was
28:12
Speaker 1: that they were getting up to sexually, and they would
28:15
Speaker 1: use it, and it was just outside of the closet
28:18
Speaker 1: where Grace was for a month. Okay, Ellen, Ellen, I'd
28:22
Speaker 1: like to apologize right here now because I knew you
28:25
Speaker 1: weren't going to give me a straight answer on what
28:27
Speaker 1: is a sex swing? But I bet I know somebody
28:29
Speaker 1: that will Robin Willleinski, what is a sex swing? Wow?
28:31
Speaker 1: Coming to me for the answer on that one, Nancy. Well,
28:34
Speaker 1: it's a device that people use when they engage. You
28:38
Speaker 1: know what. I'll spare you. I'll spare you because I've
28:42
Speaker 1: said everything there is to say. I think I hope
28:44
Speaker 1: I have any way to a jury. A sex swing,
28:47
Speaker 1: also known as a swing, it's a harness to allow
28:50
Speaker 1: sex between one partner suspended by the swing and another
28:57
Speaker 1: partner who moves freely. So I'm gonna let you use
29:00
Speaker 1: your imagination on that. So my point is, and I
29:05
Speaker 1: guess you know, I don't know where to go with this,
29:09
Speaker 1: but I am thinking about these two, and yes, that's
29:14
Speaker 1: that's kind of funny imagining these two putting in a
29:17
Speaker 1: sex wing. But hold on a moment, I'll think about
29:23
Speaker 1: Grace Packer and the complete and total malignant heart that
29:33
Speaker 1: not only Jacob Sullivan forty six and a polyamorous lover
29:39
Speaker 1: Sarah Packer forty four, had malignant heart that they could
29:47
Speaker 1: do this to a little girl, dismember her, store her
29:53
Speaker 1: body parts in catletter and a cardboard box, and and
30:00
Speaker 1: they turned the area around her dead body into a
30:05
Speaker 1: sex dungeon. Sarah Packer had taken in thirty foster children.
30:12
Speaker 1: How come nobody ever suspected me to think was happening?
30:16
Speaker 1: And then you get the first sex abuse case? Why
30:22
Speaker 1: ellen were the children allowed to stay in the home.
30:25
Speaker 1: It does appear that people didn't know there was something wrong,
30:30
Speaker 1: So I can't explain why Grace was allowed to say
30:33
Speaker 1: with Sarah Packer, Grace had a guidance counselor who said
30:37
Speaker 1: that she had excellent grace, that she was a very
30:39
Speaker 1: good student, but she knew that she was having trouble
30:42
Speaker 1: at home because Sarah Packer was constantly threatening to send
30:47
Speaker 1: her to a residential home. And then this girl that
30:50
Speaker 1: Sarah and Jacob described as a problem child instead wrote
30:54
Speaker 1: them a sweet and kind letter saying, I understand if
30:58
Speaker 1: you don't want me to live here, I still love
31:01
Speaker 1: you guys. So people did know that there was something very,
31:05
Speaker 1: very wrong, and there were three more than three months
31:10
Speaker 1: before anyone checked up on the home after they reported
31:13
Speaker 1: this girl missing, this girl who we know was abused
31:17
Speaker 1: in the past. Ali Colorna, what more can you tell me?
31:20
Speaker 1: I do think that it's just tragedy on top of
31:24
Speaker 1: tragedy that this body, this little girl's body, was sitting
31:27
Speaker 1: in the home for almost four months while they were
31:32
Speaker 1: carrying on their depraved lives, and it was only asked
31:38
Speaker 1: only in October that someone came knocking on the door
31:41
Speaker 1: to check on a missing person's report that was made
31:45
Speaker 1: in July. That's the only reason that they even decided
31:50
Speaker 1: to get rid of the body. They thought, and they
31:53
Speaker 1: believed for correctly for a long time, that they were
31:55
Speaker 1: going to get away with this because they saw Grace
31:59
Speaker 1: Packer as a disposable person, and they thought everyone else
32:02
Speaker 1: would too. Robin will Lynsky's somewhere in the mix. There's
32:05
Speaker 1: got to be a biomm the biological mother of Grace Packer.
32:09
Speaker 1: Didn't she care? Wasn't she watching out what was happening
32:11
Speaker 1: with Grace and this devil Jacob Sullivan and that horrible mother,
32:17
Speaker 1: Sarah Packer. Where's she in the mix? Where's the bio
32:20
Speaker 1: dad in the mix? So, Nancy, we don't really know
32:23
Speaker 1: anything about Grace's biological father, but we do know she
32:27
Speaker 1: was with her biological mother for the first three years
32:30
Speaker 1: of her life before her mom had to put her
32:33
Speaker 1: into foster care. The circumstances surrounding that we really don't know.
32:38
Speaker 1: But her biological mother, her name is Rose Huntsecker. Again,
32:43
Speaker 1: Rose Huntsecker, the biological mother. She did show up at
32:47
Speaker 1: the memorial service. She was really broken up, had to
32:51
Speaker 1: be escorted by family and friends, was visibly shaken in tears,
32:57
Speaker 1: grieving for her daughter. Now ABC six reporter Chad Pradelli
33:01
Speaker 1: catching up with Rose at the service. Listen to this.
33:05
Speaker 1: Dozens of strangers filled the New Life Presbyterian Church this
33:09
Speaker 1: afternoon to say goodbye to Grace Packer. Packer's biological mother
33:13
Speaker 1: was among those on hand. She was lovable little girl,
33:17
Speaker 1: Lilonia three year. The memorial service was the work of
33:23
Speaker 1: a handful of Abington women who felt compelled after learning
33:26
Speaker 1: of the horrific death of Grace. Prosecutors say Sullivan beat
33:30
Speaker 1: and rape Grace as Sarah Packer watched as part of
33:34
Speaker 1: some sort of rape fantasy. She was allegedly then poisoned
33:37
Speaker 1: and eventually strangled. It shows the community's grief. It's very crowded.
33:44
Speaker 1: There's a lot of sad faces. She matters to us,
33:47
Speaker 1: she managed to the community. It's right to give her
33:51
Speaker 1: a dignified, honorable send off. The state took Packer from
33:55
Speaker 1: her biological parents when she was just three. Sarah and
33:58
Speaker 1: David Packer adopted her, but David Packer would later be
34:01
Speaker 1: charged with sexual abuse of children. Sources say Grace was
34:04
Speaker 1: one of his victims. He served five years behind bars. Sadly,
34:08
Speaker 1: relatives who last saw Grace when she was just three
34:11
Speaker 1: remember a happy little girl. The life she endured is agonizing.
34:16
Speaker 1: I don't see how anyone could hurt her. She was
34:18
Speaker 1: so cheerful. She lit up everybody's day. She was just
34:22
Speaker 1: a happy person to be around. Now, Nancy, it only
34:24
Speaker 1: took the jury ten minutes to sentence Jacob Sullivan. Let's
34:27
Speaker 1: listen to WFMZ sixty nine news reporter Jamie Stover. After
34:32
Speaker 1: more than ten hours of deliberation over the course of
34:35
Speaker 1: three days, it took the jury just ten minutes this
34:38
Speaker 1: morning to decide it would be death for Jacob Sullivan.
34:42
Speaker 1: The one juror actually was choked up when they had
34:46
Speaker 1: to affirm that this was an unanimous decision and the
34:49
Speaker 1: decision that all of them wanted. The judge asked them
34:52
Speaker 1: if they wanted to be a part of the actual
34:55
Speaker 1: sentencing being imposed. All of them showed up. In fact,
34:58
Speaker 1: they had to get a bigger court for all the
35:00
Speaker 1: people to be there to watch as Jacob Sullivan was
35:03
Speaker 1: given the death penalty. The judge walked in with a
35:06
Speaker 1: smile actually before she imposed that sentence, and she said
35:10
Speaker 1: that she had no problem giving this man the death penalty,
35:14
Speaker 1: explaining all the horrific things that he admitted to doing
35:18
Speaker 1: to fourteen year old Grace Packer. She ripped into him.
35:21
Speaker 1: She told him that he had no soul she said
35:23
Speaker 1: that in all her years, she has never said that
35:25
Speaker 1: to a human being and said that she may not
35:28
Speaker 1: ever say that again except for one other person, Sarah Packer.
35:31
Speaker 1: And she told Jacob Sullivan that this was his first
35:34
Speaker 1: judgment day. There would be a second judgment day, and
35:36
Speaker 1: she said that he would not be in the same
35:38
Speaker 1: place as fourteen year old Grace Packer. She said that
35:41
Speaker 1: Grace Packer had a smile that would charm anyone but him.
35:45
Speaker 1: She had lots of words for him, and she went
35:48
Speaker 1: over the magnitude of this case. She went over all
35:52
Speaker 1: of the disturbing details and admitted that she as well
35:55
Speaker 1: had trouble sleeping at night going through and listening to
35:58
Speaker 1: all the horrific details of the rape, murder, and dismemberment
36:02
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old Grace Packer. Sullivan was given the
36:05
Speaker 1: death penalty for the homicide of Grace Packer. The judge
36:09
Speaker 1: it was up to her to decide what the punishment
36:11
Speaker 1: would be for all of those other charges, including kidnapping,
36:14
Speaker 1: the rape, and the list goes on, and she gave
36:16
Speaker 1: the max for every one of those charges and said
36:18
Speaker 1: that they will run consecutively. Now, this makes Jacob Sullivan
36:23
Speaker 1: the one hundred and forty third person to be on
36:25
Speaker 1: death row currently in Pennsylvania. Because it is a death sentence,
36:29
Speaker 1: it will automatically be appealed today. We also spoke with
36:33
Speaker 1: the district attorney after the sentence came down. He said
36:36
Speaker 1: that Sullivan got what he deserved. He said, you couldn't
36:38
Speaker 1: write a script for a more horrific horror story. You
36:42
Speaker 1: know what. The death penalty is too good for them,
36:49
Speaker 1: you know what. Grace Packer, my sweet girl, Rest in pace.
36:56
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, good bye friend,