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2026 Preseason Offense vs Vikings Part 1 · Filmstudy - Baltimore Ravens Talk

0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, folks, welcome to the episode of Film Study.
0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Ken McCusik, and it's time to discuss the offense from that win over the Vikings.
0:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw it 13 to three win.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to have a lot less to say about the offense than we did about the defense.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's still offensive roster decisions to be made.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Join me to do that.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Is Spencer Peters and Spencer, how are you doing?
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Two in a row, Ken, thanks for having me.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: always great time.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: A day game.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how that fits into your expectations with football.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you know, come a lot from now.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have plenty of day games.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But for a day game on a Saturday, it just is a little bit of a weird time.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love it in terms of the analysis after the game.
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
0:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hadn't really given it much thought, but I feel like reflecting on what you just said that it feels like Thursday night at 8 p.m. or something as the standard that Raven's preseason games typically happen.
0:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, no, it's interesting to see and and you play, uh, that's when you play most of your football games in the regular season as a 1 p.m. on the weekend.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So good to to practice like you're going to play.
1:06
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
1:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Another top shelf performance by the defense, certainly some nice punting from Eccaly.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And the offense, I'd say, but the nicest kindest thing I can say is efficient in terms of grouping its first downs that they did a good job of having like three, three and two and three, I think on four different drives and they didn't waste any unnecessary first downs on any of those other drives when they were happy to go three and out.
1:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think knowing that we are going to do this show, you know, there's definitely the disparity between defense and offense in terms of excitement.
1:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first couple drives in, I was kind of wondering, you know, what are we going to talk about actually as we, you know, debrief this one, but luckily they got going a little bit more as the game went on.
1:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so they did some things that, you know, one of the things that was happening on that first drive is they were just surviving with with Tyler Huntley he was running around like crazy.
2:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He had some good runs, you know, one of the enduring visual memories.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this game will be Tyler Huntley getting a shirt strung out for about, you know, five yards behind him by the defender.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And but he's constantly shaking and baking out of the backfield for two and four yard gains, even sort of going anywhere.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: with this mind you, but they weren't taking sacks, and especially they didn't take a sack in the end zone that would have been a safety, and I have to, you know, wonder if the game would have taken a different course said, you know, they've been a turnover or a, you know, a tackle in the end zone for a safety there.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe, you know, you never know how a game like.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: or a play like that rather might change momentum, but it seemed like the defense just both of these last few games is headed together so much that, you know, surrounding two points or three points or even a touchdown, they were still living in a good shape.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting because they're resting everybody.
2:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get to that when we talk about the order of entry, but they, I mean, they have 14 regular players on defense that they're resting.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the defensive depth of the Baltimore Ravens organizational way that is really showing up again in the preseason.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely love that.
3:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the conversations you always get into at this time of the year when people say, well, they're doing it against the backups of the other team.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, your report could be we're doing it with the backups to our backups.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So we should feel good about that, actually.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, and the other teams, including Minnesota and this game had McCarthy and for an extended period, which to me would make me very uncomfortable after the very first Mike Green contact with the lower leg of my quarterback.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be a place where I say, why is he still in there and be saying it louder and louder every time he walked the line of scrimmage probably, but that's how I sometimes get enraged when I watched him perform on TV.
3:51
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... acly great job of flipping field position this game uh... we will i'm sure we're getting that a little bit later but uh... massive booming ponds and uh... covered quite well uh... for what they were i mean there were some very long ponds they think of a few return yards in this game but it wasn't a horrendous amount and uh... you know they certainly got good net average at all what he did
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was encouraging to see, I think there's a vocal part of the fan base that was maybe a little worried about him coming in after the, the, the, the shorter punter, not his good punt that was early in the game last week, but this seems to have erased a lot of those concerns.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't amazing how everybody can get upset over one miss or one bad kick by the specialists.
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it would be one snap, too, if Dick Moore ever has one, but it would be, you know, it's any one of those things is just, it's a disaster, fix it, bring in competition.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, what echoed in this game should quiet some people for a while, the balls come straight off, title loops for it, I don't, okay, well, I've got my suspicions on what the missed kick last week might have been, but it was a straight ball, so that was good, and it was straight balls in this game, so anyway, this good game for loop, but I'm totally not concerned about him, where's your level of concern for title loop?
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Minimal.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, you know, completely.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not prime Justin Tucker how I feel going into the season, but I'm not overly worried.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't particularly think, you know, I don't want to worry too much about how last season ended and, you know, one kick in the preseason, you know, which is, you know, I'd rather see the guys be successful, but it is also, you know, ultimately when you're trying to figure things out, get things ironed out, you know, it is what it is and I'm ultimately not overly concerned about it.
5:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It made six out of seven kicks again.
5:46
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd be 20 in a row before the miss and that first game, but he made six out of seven again today.
5:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Mist from 58 made from 58 and 63.
5:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's got a definitely a booming foot that they're got to be pretty happy about, I would say.
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, one other thing, I was not happy about, I'd like to hit your thoughts on this too because it mean obviously the pressure was pretty significant and a lot of it was some failed pick-up stuff, particularly in the middle between the tackles, where the running back was not providing the backstopping for any of that that we would have hoped.
6:25
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the running backs just got run over like roadkill in this game.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in terms of reflecting on that, particularly how it pertains to the regular season because that's ultimately the most important thing here.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: None of the guys that were on the field today do I think really have a shot of the 53 unless perhaps both Ali and Randall are not able to go for week one.
6:51
[SPEAKER_01]: In absent that, most of these guys are fighting to be on the practice quad, then you look at what the team has in dare cannery, what Justin Hill's justice hill has been able to do in the past.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't like to see it, it doesn't make you happy watching the film, but ultimately, it doesn't add to my level of concern going into the season.
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm with you on that.
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a number of zero R's on the handful of linemen that we actually scored.
7:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to some offensive lines scoring the second part of the show.
7:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh,
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, that was something kind of bothering me.
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They lost snap count, um, not in a completely one-sided way, but they lost just 61 to 53 in this game after winning at 76 to 40 in the first week.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't seem to have any appetite for running against the Minnesota defense.
7:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, they tried it a little bit.
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't successful at it.
7:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that that should be enough, but the only reason I think 17 times in this game so they definitely had a preponderance of passes, despite good
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that happen and we'll get into it when we talk about individual drives, individual players.
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: They definitely had some penalties that put them in native gamescript as I think you just alluded to.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, the Minnesota defense, I'm not going to say they were going out there and unloading their bag of tricks, but they were a very active defense.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, rushed a lot of guys.
8:11
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of crowd in the line of scrimmage.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think a lot of it is a reflection of that.
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's absolutely true that they really did come up and it really took a couple of nice throws by Huntley and then by Finiano as well to get him really backed off in the game a little bit.
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And originally I thought we saw a lot of gamesmanship.
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought in terms of pressure scheme and even some pressure numbers from midter we had seen before.
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that might have been a response to Flores being more aggressive at the start of the game at least in terms of going
8:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, he's basically saying, look, if you want to play this game, I can play it too.
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I don't think you'd like the results, and the Ravens, you know, fortunately won the sack battle five to one.
8:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the pressure battle was a lot more even than that.
8:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But they, you know, they got, they got, you know, a number of sacks, and, and Minnesota finally, you know, backed off a little bit in terms of how hard they were bringing the pressure.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I think that was a good thing to get a preseason game over with.
9:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think on the, I think that's well said that the Ravens won the sack battle, Minnesota, or maybe didn't win the pressure battle, but it was much closer.
9:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, and we'll talk about it later.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one or two places where the Ravens had penalties that I actually think were, to the degree, you can have a good penalty.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: a decision by Ion A for example to you know hold when there's always a clear dead right sack on a quarterback again that's a good thing to happen but in the grand scheme of penalties you're going to take one that stops a almost certain you know take kind of your quarterback community in the backfield is one you can kind of live with.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I, I wouldn't have been, I had a problem with that and, you know, licked in hand, and I think Gwen also had cases where the player was by them, and they wanted to try and grab at them to, to try and stop them.
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to grab, grab, get the guy to the ground, do the do what you need to do.
10:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And you want it was not able to do that, neither was licked in hand.
10:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe on his whole, not sure, I'm not sure if I remember exactly where Gwen's occurred, because it might have been like slightly downfield when he missed a little two block or something, but anyway, I, you,
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you, I think those kind of penalties are not too bad.
10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It was had some horrible drive stalling crap among the penalties including this three holding calls I looked in hand.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can get into it later.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not as forgiving as of his as I was of the on-eye one.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The on-eye one, there was a split of a double team that I think, you know, the guy was through, he's guy was through and he did what he could to try to rescue hotly, I believe, who was in the game at the time.
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Lichten had it a couple against much smaller men who just kind of went around him and he tried to wrap him up or, you know, grab at them, which much less excusable am I.
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's less excusable and it makes me not want to run right ever with Lichtenhand on the field.
10:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really pretty much that simple.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all three on run plays.
11:00
[SPEAKER_00]: If Lichtenhand can't stop being as handsy as he is on the edge like that, we have a problem.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, again, Lichtenhand probably almost certainly not playing.
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: almost certainly, but slightly less certainly, not of the roster.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And even the chance of him making the practice squad, I think actually went down a little bit from this game.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Diego Pounds had a pretty good game, and he had a pretty bad game, and I think that combination is really maybe endangered, his at least just top of practice squad spot, maybe they keep two there.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100% I think both the relative or the trajectory they are both on kind of last two games combined with the positional value where they both seem pretty locked in.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think makes pounds the front runner for it if there is one spot for the two of them who would have the relative positioning for it.
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And whether that's on the roster or on the practice squad, whatever.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever that may be.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of machinations or permutations you could figure out from that.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
12:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Very good.
12:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of the themes of this game I thought was that the Ravens very frequently came up one or two yards short on fourth down.
12:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And it seemed like they regularly thought they had the first down, but it would be fourth and one, or it would be fourth and two.
12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: just very frustrating that they seem to continually throw most of the time was throwing short of the sticks.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They only ended up going for one of these, and there's a reason for this.
12:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There are six times that they got to what would have been fourth and one are fourth and two, but one of them
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: was actually there was a tack on penalty which meant that the thing was converted immediately.
12:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a it's a faux fourth and two, but I included or faux fourth and one, but I put it in there because it was another damn time that they throwing short of the sticks on third down and so that was frustrating to me.
12:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Then they had two other times where they had, they went forward only one time, by the way, fourth and one at the Minnesota three, not a high risk thing, and a fairly obvious play in terms of, trying to maximize your chance of winning the game.
13:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a good play.
13:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I also thought it was a good play that they kicked on fourth and two there.
13:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They did what, I felt they did what they had to on both those, on both those places.
13:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's where I didn't agree with necessarily.
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They had two opportunities in their own and from the 23 and 37-yard line respectively.
13:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and they punted both times on 4th and 1.
13:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, try to remember if it was this past year when they went to the L.A. Chargers and played them and went forward on 4th and 1 from the 15 or 16 yard line.
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you ever that from their own 15 or 16 yard line?
13:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't remember which of those two games it was.
13:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it might have been two years ago, but I might have lost your either way.
13:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was, you know, that is,
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: a coach following mathematical advice.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, Harbal probably wouldn't have even done it on his own.
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he probably had to get, you know, yeah, that's the right mathematical play from Daniel Stern upstairs to tell him, yeah, you're all right, coach, I've completely behind you on that.
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but in this particular instance, we don't know who mentor is yet, right?
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know if he's going to be an aggressive fourth down coach.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a younger guy that tends to, you know, I think push people toward the more aggressive side.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But we don't know who he's going to be and and giving up on two fourth and one opportunities from the 23 and 37 respectively is a little odd if he's going to then turn around or
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like to think that this is just kind of playing it.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't even say by the book or down the middle because the book should actually go for it.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But more conservatively for the pre-season and as we mentioned before, this is when you're working through things, when you're giving your newer players a chance to get wraps and as we mentioned before, Ecclesa Rookie.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So perhaps you want to get him some action with
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: with funding.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the places where the fringe of the roster and potential practice squad elevations are going to be are going to be on special teams.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where you want to see some of these guys actually get some some reps.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So in that respect I don't have a problem with it.
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: contingent upon that possibly changing in the regular season.
15:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm holding out hope that it's for the reasons I said.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think that's entirely valid.
15:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there are two others I could add to this.
15:34
[SPEAKER_00]: They obviously didn't have Jackson or Henry or even Andrews to take this app from under center and increase the chance of converting one of those.
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So they have, they have that was, was, was an issue.
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So no QB power with, with Jacks and no quarterback sneak with Andrews, no running the ball with Henry.
15:48
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's what you want to do in those situations, it's going to reduce your chances with the personnel they actually had with the patchwork offensive line, the lack of continuity there.
15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand, and maybe I even more understand the notion of nobody deserves to get a chance to understand who I am as a coach until the regular season starts.
16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to, you're going to play this out one at a time.
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not telling you anything.
16:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's certainly the attitude they've taken on defense, for example, where they've only had one step so far in two games that was not based or nickel.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So very, you know, very tight to the vest, you know, their trick plays as we get to in their autonomous in this game are these tired, tired old boot plays that everybody and their clown has in their playbook.
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So you, you don't have any, anything really new coming from that.
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it is reasonable that it might have been just
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm not, I'm not telling anybody who I am right now.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's my hope.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
16:45
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We should probably talk about the center competition before somebody out there pops a blood vessel from our lack of willingness to do it.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I already hear you guys screaming on the other end of your podcast here.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, a few things happened this week.
16:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They kind of changed the,
17:01
[SPEAKER_00]: the tenor of things.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So he had pinchers injury, enjoy practices against the Vikings.
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously devastating, particularly for him, now appears to be season ending.
17:11
[SPEAKER_00]: The Ravens mentor announced that today at the podium.
17:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So unfortunately, that's that seems to be the way of it.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not 100% go to that, but he said, yeah, that's the way it seems to be.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And when somebody says that, he almost can't go back on it.
17:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they were hoping that they would get
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: A second opinion maybe or a more definitive opinion that would have made it possible that he would be able to come back at some point during the year, but they already knew he was going to miss it extended period and unfortunately it appears to be this is the season.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's unfortunate for him.
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a guy who seemed like the coaching staff and led for, you know, liked and wanted to give a chance, too.
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think once postsick was in the building and bullet was back from, I figured if he was on pop or what exactly he was on, but he was back practicing.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We say it often, but these things will often have a way of working themselves out, and it's not, you know, it's very unfortunate for, for Pinterest specifically, and, you know, personally, as a player in his career,
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a bit of why you have, you know, wait too many options going into the season and because oftentimes things do work themselves out like this.
18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, that's the same thing.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about if a position's depth holds up because it's a real risk.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Every summer you go in, depending on the number of factors, joint practices, who plays in games, all those things, you have risk of injury.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's been some interesting things out the last few days, by the way, in terms of
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: a study that showed that you had less of a chance of a regular season injury if you take in part in joint practices.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but, and it might have been also for preseason games too.
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You had a less chance of a regular season injury, but the preseason game still carried higher percentage of injury there, so you didn't want to do that.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's interesting that the ravens are now really trying to go heavy into joint practice days and have had three, you know, this, this camp, and a lot of teams will have one or two, almost no team, I don't think has none anymore.
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was interesting, it was interesting study, I thought.
19:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, but we're talking about, you know, depth-holding up at the position, almost always, you know, you have
19:35
[SPEAKER_00]: seven to make five roster spots and it seems like very frequently there's an easy injury-based solution to your problems that is done unless another problem.
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you put a guy on IR and maybe you can bring it back.
19:49
[SPEAKER_00]: The roster is now favor with the second IR spot that being done for everybody, whereas it used to have to be done exclusively by what we called the handshake deal, where you'd have to caught a player that you really wanted to bring back on the roster.
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That's become less of an issue in today's game, but the Ravens have maybe one or two guys that could still fit into that category.
20:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But the two spots they have for long-term, or sorry, for short-term, IRDTR, whatever you want to call it, those two spots are highly in debate right now as to where they should go.
20:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if I had to place a bat on where I would see them being used or would like them to be used, I think.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The end of the cornerback depth rotation is the number one spot, I would say, someone should, you know, great place to stash someone, both long-term and to backfill, you know, as people go down throughout the season.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of number one for me.
20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But still I think with the numbers we've been talking about, do they go three quarterbacks so they go 10 offensive linemen as they're fourth running back?
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Offensive linemen is somewhere they could make use of a spot like that as well.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe the kind of third or distant third in my mind would be the defensive line.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But is there sort of the leaders in the clubhouse in my mind?
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the defensive line might be very important.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Matt at BK might be one of them, sadly.
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, the question continues to come up.
21:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I came up again today, you know, is it too net is, are we getting to the point where it's too late?
21:20
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, Matt at BK did his first sled work today.
21:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been exclusively doing conditioning on the side that this was his first evening sledwear.
21:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think he's probably a week away from doing 11 or 11, maybe more, but we'll see on that because it took him certainly absolutely forever to get to this point in terms of getting on the sled.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess it's not really surprising given the nature of his injury that it would have taken him longer.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we started this whole rabbit hole thing when we talked about the pinter injuries.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, pinter was the first of several developments at center.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The second was that Gwen started this second game after it having an outstanding first game.
22:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And you and I have a nice chance to talk about that.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we talked about it in the offensive pod from the first week, just how great Gwen's game was, how terrific he looked.
22:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, honestly, what he did to Dominique Orange in the joint practice this week,
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: seem to be so special that, you know, you almost give it additional weight beyond what it deserves, which is the, in general, the problem with looking at any individual block and trying to project a lot forward from it.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, I'm generally with you on that point.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there is a,
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of buyer your hurdle question at times that which is helpful to know when someone who is maybe undersized or you don't think has the physical tools to do the thing is able to do the thing.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that passes a stage gate so to speak.
22:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you don't want to over index and say it doesn't matter that he's sitting 150 as a result, right?
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But it does change your evaluation of the ceiling potentially.
23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now that, that what I would call that is something Bill James wants to describe to signature significance.
23:06
[SPEAKER_00]: that you you you see somebody be able to do something once and you say okay then he's capable of that.
23:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't mean he's going to do it every time but he's capable of that and that's an important thing to to see at the top end.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really have a problem for it when used sparingly and I think
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: weighted properly relative to other events, but I have a problem with it when people Honestly do what I call trait-based scouting to try and determine who's going to be a player and who's not Oftentimes it does come from college play and trying to ahead to keep the draft
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, for me, very important.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see the traits.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I got three things.
23:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see the traits on film.
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see the testing that goes along with that.
23:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And probably most important.
23:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see the play metrics.
23:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I can determine about what they were able to accomplish on the field against their peers.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so for inside linebacker, that means stops the mistackle ratio.
24:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be really good.
24:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see him giving up as few yards per target as possible.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's a corner back, yards per target and their ratio of number of times targeted a number of times they've got the hands on the flip ball, are two things I really want to see.
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: those metrics, they're more than just the corroborating factor.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like the measurements need to corroborate what they've actually done in the field already, and then you say, okay, well maybe I have the air crack here, your size, I want, and then I also have this fantastic performance and I got it out of you understand.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so on Saturday, the two centers, I'm gonna say neither of them was particularly good.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Postic was probably a solid sea in this game and we're gonna get to that later because I scored him individually.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't score Gwen because it wasn't really enough snaps in total.
24:57
[SPEAKER_00]: But the word out is out today that Postic is gonna get reps with the first team this week.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting because I, so I did not hear that, and I'm just reacting to that live.
25:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But the way I interpreted the snapshot during the game is that, you know, when went out early, he went out at the same time as Yuanay.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was going to be indicative of a really positive development for his chances to start.
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, maybe this is, and I don't think by any means he, even though I really liked what he's done to this point,
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: has done enough to say that there should be no competition going forward.
25:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So perhaps this is just a, you know, we're going to give these guys a fair shot to, yeah, you know, compete for the first spot, not a, not necessarily an indication of where the, the kind of, in pencil week one depth chart sets right now.
25:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think what you just described is exactly where, mentor wants it to be and where I think the expectation of the players was,
26:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, entering off season activities, you know, OTAs and then as soon as, you know, obviously, they signed a postsick, then they knew there was going to be a three-way battle.
26:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, you know, that was about the same time that Bullock had his app and decked to me.
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he, you know, kind of dropped out of it.
26:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just talking about the two guys down.
26:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Before they were only talking about the three guys.
26:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but one thing we did see in this game is that Bullock played left guard for four series, and then he came back and he played the last series at center.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first action that is somewhere that I'm aware of.
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it is a very positive development.
26:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If Cory Bullock could be a backup on this team, it could be one of the 9 or 10 linemen they take who could play either guard or center.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Full agreed, and I think
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: that potentially, you know, we continue to sort of circle or he's a spot on the roster, you know, that could be who moves to make room for Bullock kind of being a primary guard who can also play center, whether by trade or other avenue, but, you know, that would be great just given kind of runway remaining relative youth and kind of earlyness and is his, uh,
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: in his career, if Bullock could, you know, grab a spot on the roster, that would be great.
27:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So as Bullock's sitting, I have to look at this in terms of the Ravens roster, I forget.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Bullock is a second-year player.
27:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe so, I think last year was his first credit season.
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: The first credit season.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that would make sense.
27:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're two.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, with four he's in your three, that's true.
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got a different amount of relative runway.
27:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Bullock will be an RFA as finally.
27:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really more like two and a half versus two is the comparison.
27:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And four he's actually played reasonably well in this game.
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Not great, but reasonably well in this game.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was a bunch of a whole lot of not particularly good along the offensive line in terms of the way I saw it in this game.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I don't want to necessarily overweight.
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Bullocks kind of outlook because I want it to be true.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the only kind of future asset we have at the center position right now.
28:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's part of why I would be so excited about him being able to grab a roster spot.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, again, whether it's when, whether it's Powsick, neither of those guys is under control for next year.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So to the degree that Bullock can credibly carve out a spot and take a spot on this roster,
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm all for it.
28:29
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll take a quick break.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back in a minute to talk about the order of entry.
28:36
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we're back, deployment order, always something I look at during the preseason.
28:41
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, Marine was on the show talking about the defense last night.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually had a late cancellation, but Marine doesn't mind stepping in occasionally for this kind of thing.
28:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably doesn't like it, but doesn't, doesn't mind too much.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things we talked about a little bit was our process during the preseason a little different than the regular season.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Reggie season, we actually chart every single snap.
29:01
[SPEAKER_00]: who's on the field in the preseason at anybody can do this.
29:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Anybody can do this and it's a ton of information there.
29:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Write yourself up, 11 positions across the top of the, across the top of your sheet of paper.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Write them to allow two rows for each each drive and then put in the player who starts
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: at the position on the first line and on the second line put in any substitute to that position.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So you might have two running backs, three running backs, you could have four different wider severs playing on a drive, you got room for all that if you do it and it allows you to track order of entry in a meaningful way that will tell you what the coaches really believe the depth chart is because that's what matters is who's out first in the games is really telling you an incredible amount of information about who they think is more important to the team.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's start.
29:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We had a number of key players sitting out.
29:53
[SPEAKER_00]: There were 14 on defense.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'm not going to go over those because we're talking about the offensive show, but they were nine on offense.
30:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I forget if I've included b8ment in that list or not.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But they had, it's either nine or 10, including b8ment, obviously, b8ment, and there are other issues.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I still don't feel like I know enough about that to talk about it.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But I,
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, as you say, Meenie, there I don't really want to comment on the evolving situation.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, all I was going to add was that I think Bateman would be out regardless.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he has secured enough of a spot that I don't see that being the only reason that he was out.
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Completely agree.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So, completely agree in terms of, of, of, yeah, that being, that being it.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I am, I guess I'm, maybe we talk about it here, rather than let it corrupt the rest of the show in some way, but I am very concerned with the syntax used on Bateman.
30:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I was wrong about the syntax.
30:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know if I'm wrong yet, but I was apparently wrong about the Metabee case syntax.
30:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Early this year was decided like they were setting him up to retire.
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the case of Bateman, it really seems more like they're not commenting, they're cooperating with League Fully, they're aware of the situation.
31:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even sure if he's around the facility or anything.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if they told him to go home for a week.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe he's there, maybe he's not.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: If he is there, I'm sure he's keeping his head down.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want to be out there on the practice field where people can see him and ask questions about it basically.
31:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is why the team might not really want him there, but obviously this is not a good situation And we think back to the Ray Rice situation.
31:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We know how quickly this developed
31:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the reference to the Ray Ray situation is why I personally wouldn't read too much into this syntax.
31:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a situation where even though it's a new coaching staff, there's a lot of people still in the building that have that kind of institutional memory.
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just positive that mentor was not going out and making comments without, or any team spokesman without, heavy, heavy,
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: consultation of others in the building, yeah, and there's nothing to be gained from even if they think, you know, and I know nothing about the situation, I don't want to comment on the situation, even if the team fully stood behind Rashad Bateman and thought that, you know, this is just completely overblown, and they know who Rashad Bateman is.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, this is going to clear itself up, there's nothing to be gained from them going out and yelling that from the rooftops, especially after what happened with the Ray Rice situation.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I do not know one way or another, I'm just saying that there's no benefit to the team of of loudly defending him even if they thought that was true.
32:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a perfect situation where our only comment is no comment and anybody from the M&A world is going to understand exactly what I mean when I said that regularly on the show.
32:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, Bateman didn't play in this one, and he was one of a number of offensive players who didn't.
32:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They had a few other players with some apparently minor injuries, and we're going to go through by position and hit on them.
32:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're not left with not incredible depth across the board.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They had really many more defensive depth problems, so the inside linebacker,
33:03
[SPEAKER_00]: group went up like a house on fire, basically, and a paper house at that, you know, with the injuries that occurred on Saturday, and they were down only two inside linebackers at the end of the game.
33:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They had four to start the game, and they really thought they would get through it, but they managed to.
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at safety they had to put a or a warrior move him from corner play him only at safety during the game So they had a lot of a lot of difficulty getting their basic Numbers on the field that really I don't think that was the problem on offense obviously they didn't play a ton of snaps in this game So nobody really looked all that overworked
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But they had enough backups across the board so that they were still bringing in new players at the end of the game and I The only place I think you could maybe say that some players got overwork was maybe tight-end You had four guys there even so, you know, you should be able to get through a NFL game with four four tight-ans, right?
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they rotated pretty reasonably well I don't think they were running out a lot of 13 personnel, so it didn't seem like anyone was taking an overwhelming snapshot, right?
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, at QB, let's start there.
34:08
[SPEAKER_00]: They rested Jackson, Huntley started the game, played four series, had a nice drive.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he got relieved by Finyano, who played most of the rest of the game.
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then for the very last drive, Austin Reed or AR-15, as he's known, to the gun community, actually, to a lot of people.
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: AR-15 came in at the end of the game.
34:27
[SPEAKER_00]: No surprises in terms of order.
34:29
[SPEAKER_00]: No surprises.
34:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really think in terms of how long players played.
34:33
[SPEAKER_00]: If it was anything I'd say, Huntley might have played a series too long after he had been chased around the way he did.
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He did seem to stay a little deeper to the game than I was expecting, but marginal there, it's a drive different than maybe what I would have expected.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But much like you said, there's nothing much we learned here in terms of what the quarterback depth starts going to look like going to the season.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some lingering questions around 53 man status, but nothing changing in the QB room itself.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: right so you're seeing finiana will either be on the 53 as the third or at the top of the practice squad if the ravens get their way and nobody else gets him yeah i'm still of the mind that it's the latter situation is probably the the most likely and probably the most prudent way to move forward
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think he continued to play well and potentially keep the conversation open for if he deserves that spot.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But more just emphasizing that that's what I think you could possibly take from this game.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I don't think anyone changed order.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously the guy at the top of the depth chart is in changing.
35:37
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, not the most interesting position group to talk about learning from this this game.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a first world.
35:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a first world problem to have to worry about who the quarterback is behind on our Jackson.
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll I'll remember a reminder, cults fans of my vintage who grew up with the Bert Jones era cults.
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was 76 or maybe it was 77.
35:58
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a question that kept coming up all during the intermodibles six game preseason they used to play at a fort with a 14-game schedule that was basically who is going to be the backup quarterback troop or Kirkland.
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: As if any of that mattered, well, to turn out, you know, Jones got hurt, even that year in the next year, so it did matter at one point, but, you know, your season's over as soon as soon as Brazil goes down, and the, the cults of 1978 to, to 1980, learn that pretty quickly.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There was something similar about the Peyton Manning Colts, I think it was Tom Moore, who exactly it was, the question about not having too many backup reps during practice and Peyton Manning taking all of the reps. And I think the exact quote was, something to the effect of if Manning goes down and we're asked and we don't practice after so, you know, similar, similar notion there.
36:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Alrighty.
36:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's move on to running back at running back a Henry Hill and I'll read all rested.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'll read was injured for this game or didn't play this game due to injury, but he was back at practice today.
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is, it was something interesting.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And a Randall was also injured.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the exact nature of the injury, but he was out for this this game.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's an unfortunate development, particularly given, I think, what we were sort of eyeing was that there was a very clear three to start the season with elite potentially not making it back, you know, him coming back and playing is probably his best shot of making the roster.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Randall being injured if that lingers complicates things, particularly how you use some of those IRGTR spots, those coveted two spots that you have for free.
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a world where that doesn't change anything, and if it's a minor enough injury, Randall is a healthy, not a healthy scratch, but a rostered scratch, maybe week one or week two, and one of these whoever makes the practice squad is an elevation early in the season.
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:11
[SPEAKER_00]: as opposed to really changing who makes the roster at the top three.
38:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll even still be your fourth running back, at least in my mind he would be in terms of who's on the on the
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, on the team, but Randall might start to season inactive, you're absolutely right.
38:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And they, you know, there would be a gain from having out lead, but also it uses up one of the really key spots that they could have some flexibility with on the offensive line.
38:40
[SPEAKER_00]: They could, you know, carry a third quarterback, if that's what they wanted to do.
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: They could even at this point with the bait in situation being what it is.
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They might have to go to the somewhere outside the organization to find a wider receiver as well.
38:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and on the running back group, I didn't see anything of the three guys who are outside of all the who hopefully could slip through the practice while and I think you've mentioned you're pretty confident that he would be able to, but if he's not, the other three guys that they have, none of them have done enough in my mind to really set themselves apart.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's definitely some positives you can point to for each of them, but there's none of them that I'm saying, wow, I really hope that guy gets through, and he's the number one guy I want to carry.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I totally agree with that, and I think that, honestly, part of the thinking with Ali has to be, he's got two years to stand in the hourglass, but he's also a running back, and it might or might not work out at this point over the next two years.
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It probably will not give them the organizational depth the Ravens have with Henry being here for both of those years, for starters.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: it's so long shot that Ali is ever going to get any meaningful playing time and I think he's the kind of guy you cut and maybe the chances only 70% that he makes it through waivers but if you get a 30% result then you just say well and you get the next best guy because the dropoff is not enough to you know undervalue the extra roster spot that you have.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah absolutely it's not.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You see this come up in baseball sometimes with moves that people make with who they protect or elevate or whatever it may be and some guy gets, you know, on the rule five draft for example, gets taken and you can't just say, wow, you miscalculated because that guy got taken, it's you have to balance it with who else were you going to expose?
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like that's the opportunity cost and so yes, you're going to take a calculator risk.
40:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to lose some of those guys.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The optimal optimal outcome is not losing zero, yeah, necessarily.
40:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And in baseball, it's probably even more extreme, particularly with how baseball is so performance metrics based today with things like spin rate and all the things they know about how hard pictures throw and projection of injuries and whatnot is at a very high level on that side.
40:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's always with pitching.
40:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You really have to use scalar factors that are significantly
41:10
[SPEAKER_00]: with football, they have to do some of the same things, and I forgot exactly what my point is we are, so I'm gonna sound stupid, but we'll let it go.
41:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's move on to Titan, where they rested Andrews and Smyth.
41:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Hibner and Quavus were the early performers Hibner was out there first, then Quavus was out there.
41:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I think on the first drive as well, so look at my sheet, that is the easiest thing ever to create.
41:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He was out there for the first drive as well.
41:35
[SPEAKER_00]: quite a split the entire game and so did Hibner.
41:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were rotated throughout.
41:39
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw then Scott come in.
41:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He was actually the next one off the bench.
41:44
[SPEAKER_00]: He came in on the third drive rotated for the remainder of the game.
41:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we saw Petsa come in, not until the middle of the third quarter.
41:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So that gives you an idea if they just held off a feared time on Petsa and he wasn't
42:03
[SPEAKER_00]: made a tackle actually on one of the 60-yard ponds, but he also, I think, had a full start at the game.
42:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He might have had one was incomplete on his only target, so not a great game certainly from Petsa, and I don't think it's any question about where the roster is going right now.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No, particularly with Smyth and I don't know that this is truly a new learning, but Smyth not dressing absolutely solidifies that it will be four Titans carried and he's one of them.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I don't think that's a huge revelation, but there was maybe some question in the off season about whether he had a spot on the final 53.
42:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of what the guarantees and what he had in his contract helped clear up, but I think this is further underscores that
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what we saw with Hibner and Quayless, I think assumption was they're both going to make the roster.
42:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Hibner showed out a little bit more last week, and we'll get into it, but this is Quayless's game that he shined through a bit more.
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that it changes anything about what we expect for both of those two, making the 53 and where exactly they sort of stack on the death chart.
43:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be in different roles, actually.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: with you 100% across the board there.
43:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, it's Scott versus Petsa for that top of practice squad role.
43:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very, both very different players.
43:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Petsa, he wouldn't be an easy guy to replace either Hibner or Aquavus with whatever blocking role you think he might be able to take.
43:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's an easy job for him to fill.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Scott is the most likely guy to be able to fill the blocking role.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: of Smith in particular, that really makes more sense to me.
43:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And they have used, you know, throwing the ball to him a fair amount this summer and a couple of times, I think, in the games already.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe one in each game.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He was incomplete in this game, but they threw him the first game I believe as well.
43:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And they thrown a fair amount this summer.
43:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're really trying to make him into a tight end.
44:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He still lists as a football, sorry, full back.
44:05
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the game book,
44:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not where he's putting it, or he's all the way, changed it to what I did.
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you know, it worked up to me.
44:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you can only carry one of them on the practice wise, which is probably the case, I would want to retain Scott just given that what he can do, letting up in the back field, I think gives you a different look that if you want to use some for a game day elevation, if there's a week where you say, we want to go really heavy 13 personnel, or we think there's
44:34
[SPEAKER_01]: an opportunity to overpower a team doing some of the things we used to do with Patrick Ricardo.
44:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He gives you some, you know, he's not just a backfill tight end there.
44:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He gives you some ability to do something a little bit different if the game plan that we weren't.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but positional texture there.
44:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You really, you've gained that with a player like Scott I agree.
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the actual, the blocking tight end roll while it shouldn't be as rare as it is, it seems to be the rare of the, you know, the past catching versus block and there's you
45:04
[SPEAKER_00]: then there should be, and that's why players like Eric Tomonson can have jobs for years, or like Durham's might for that matter, Durham's might has 142 catches, and how many missed tackles they see for us this entire career, you know, right?
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Terrence, thank you.
45:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like two.
45:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
45:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew a single digits.
45:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can say a long time in the NFL, if you can if you could block at that tight end positions.
45:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I've said it so many times in the show.
45:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I was I was counting on you to have heard it from me and and haven't locked in my now.
45:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But I appreciate you.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew it was a comically low number, but I couldn't, uh, couldn't recall our right away.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's move on.
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about the wider sea was a little bit.
45:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We did have some some.
45:46
[SPEAKER_00]: actual movement on I think the clarity of the depth chart from this game, which is I was a little bit surprised to see, but flowers obviously sat out, beatman sat out, we don't want to get it to potentially why.
46:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And Lane was the first guy in and it was the first guy in because they started also with Walker on the first series, the two of them, each played the first series.
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the two of them both played the next series, and Walker and Lane were together for a while, but then after four series, so you're remidway into the second quarter, just right after that first field goal drive, they took Lane out.
46:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And they sent him the dressing room, and they put him in street clothes.
46:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And he came back out for the second half, and he was encouraging the other wide receivers in street clothes, including, including, as Walker, which is really surprising.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the one thing I will, and I don't want to give it a speculation about it.
46:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing I will say is, I am curious how much of a testament that is to Lane's play to this point, which I hope is the majority of it, and there could be a small part of it that is concerned about Bateman's status for week one, that if he is...
46:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the positive story here is that I think that means the team feels really well that Wayne has separated himself from the group.
47:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And if he's kind of that next guy that moves into the top two, if Batman can't be there, that ups the the possible downside risk of from injury of keeping him in.
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I agree with that.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And in particular, if what you need him for is to play the early season games where there is additional suspension risk for Rashad Bateman, which I think is probably the correct way to approach the problem.
47:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see this being something where
47:30
[SPEAKER_00]: They would encourage Bateman to appeal or, you know, they would do anything different.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than say, hey, Rashad, please just take this at the beginning of the season.
47:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's four games.
47:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We can get through this.
47:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The schedule early is not that hard.
47:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Lane can get a shot.
47:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you come back, hey, you're our guy, kind of thing.
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully, he doesn't feel like the risk of being while a pit is so high that he feels compelled to go through with whatever appeal process there is that might take more time.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, what we've seen generally speaking is that the appeal process, the NFL, doesn't actually take that long.
48:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They fly the guy in the New York, they have the hearing and they get it done, because they don't want players being able to basically delay a suspension any time they want, just because they've got an important opponent come out.
48:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And it definitely, you know, is a much bigger issue in football relative to baseball in terms of the count of games and the relative importance of any individual matchup.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally agree.
48:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally agree.
48:23
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
48:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So we had Walker and Wester were kind of the next crew in and they came in, you know, Wester just came in right after Walker, but Walker and Wester stayed until later in the game.
48:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were in both the game in the third quarter and then they were taken out then and actually when when Walker's last one of his last plays was the nice long catchy made over the middle where we tacked on some nice yak and that play he went to the sidelines I believe immediately after that play would definitely by immediately after that series and that's why I noticed Lane was over there and
49:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I do wonder if Wester being one of the sooner guys in, if that is indicative of a position on the roster or the depth of our rather, or if that is, they did a few more things this week.
49:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the perfect contrast to last week's say if it was more or less, but they did a lot with tunnel screens and some other kind of gadget and type plays that I think Wester is really well designed for.
49:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not sure if that's necessarily indicative of
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: you know his his position on the roster or or more and I think he has ahead of some of the guys that followed him but for one versus trying to get some of that work in with the offense and see what he can do.
49:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well that's a legitimate legitimate legitimate.
49:52
[SPEAKER_00]: point that there's more gadgetry going on.
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: He was on a lot of quick separator plays, which they needed against the Vikings when the Vikings early, at least were crowding the line of scrimmage and trying to make it difficult.
50:04
[SPEAKER_00]: They needed plays to get the ball outside and put the ball in playmaker's hands to try and get it down the field.
50:10
[SPEAKER_00]: They did a little bit of a good job with that.
50:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say the Vikings were right on the boots in this game.
50:15
[SPEAKER_00]: They won that they were laid on was the boot throw back to Ward where he booted right and then they threw the pass all the way back to the left side line effectively.
50:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the one where they didn't get over to that side of the field very quickly.
50:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just wonder if there weren't other options on that right side of the field vertically that might have been better for Fagnado and that play.
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: but they did stuff that certainly would have used Western Morty and up getting seven targets in this game, including a pretty bad drop.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the drop and we can talk players in a little bit, but it was definitely a double cash.
50:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't what you want to see from a wider receiver, but equated himself well as the game went on.
50:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe the only other thing I would say that cuts a little bit against what I was saying, but it's a bit nuanced is that
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Although the team might still think more highly of Serat as a receiver, like a pure receiver, ultimately on game day, there's a good chance that you might dress five receivers and have your sixth as a healthy scratch.
51:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And Western given his role on special teams is more likely to play, so you definitely want to get him out there, get him more, make sure he's comfortably offense because he is going to be, even if he's your sixth wide receiver, quote unquote, he's going to be probably your fifth guy in terms of game day dressing, right?
51:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he may well be forced into more of an offensive role because I thought that last year and he did have some snaps on the field and they didn't seem to get him the football.
51:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was kind of frustrating in terms of of him not not getting more of an offensive play, but he's looked more, he's looked more elusive and difficult to bring down after the catch this last year kind of explosive from the catch point transition from catch to run, which you know, that's the kind of normal skill set you really need is a punter turner, but yeah.
52:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and as a part of our turn, you know, not didn't have the signature play like he did last year when he ran back that touchdown, but he looks all kinds of slippery and elusive when he gets the ball on his hands with any amount of room or sometimes not that much room to run.
52:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely exciting to see him bring the ball back and they've made him part of the regular kickoff for turn team, which I think is probably the way they need to go.
52:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, you just can't have all your running backs in that position every time or before it's the carrying an extra running back because of it, so it makes sense for a wester to be that guy.
52:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree with you entirely on the Serat being the guy that they would sit as a six on some day.
52:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He came in with Gillory and with Wade, those guys, you know, there's nothing wrong with their performances.
52:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Gillory and Wade both, you know, provided some positive things in this game.
52:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Gillory had one nice catch for, it was in the teens, somewhere in Wade had about three catches on the drive where they kept getting down to the one yard line and then kept getting a version to the goal line there.
53:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those two guys, I don't think there's a realistic shot barring entry for them to make the 53, but if I had to handicap it, those are the two guys with the inside track to the practice squad.
53:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, I think Wade is a very natural backup punt returner for this team.
53:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that Gillery is the same guy they've had for years and in a younger man's body at this point that they don't have Miller and Kirkwood and these older veteran-wide receivers on the practice squad are just probably a good thing that they don't really need that.
53:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They do have one of them though, and that's Chris Moore, who probably is here for his practice squad elevations, if I had to say, I'm not saying this is zero percent chance he ever gets elevated, but I am thinking that it will be a time where they think they're a man short on the practice squad that they want to bring up a player like Moore, and I think that's where he ends up.
53:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't disagree.
53:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I, uh, not someone who gets me particularly excited, but there's worse things than, you know, Chris Moore being on the practice squad for some, some veteran, why receiver depth and special teams ability for, for some occasional elevations.
54:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
54:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate, he could even be a guy.
54:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to carry on the practice squad to start the year.
54:14
[SPEAKER_00]: He might be a guy.
54:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You wait for the first injury and you pick up the phone.
54:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's 33 years old.
54:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I just don't see any market for him around the league, you know, for getting one to pick him up.
54:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see how that plays out.
54:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, how are we doing on time here?
54:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking we're going to put the offensive line stuff together, including some offensive lines scoring along with the depth chart work into the second part of the show, but Spencer, I really appreciate always when you come on, always a high level discussion, tell folks where they can talk football with you online.
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can find me on Twitter slash X at Spencer CP, that's Spencer with two S's and always happy to talk, talk Ravensville, both there.
54:52
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, all the folks out there.
54:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Use Film Study, mail back at gmail.com, please.
54:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be talking, having a roster show this week.
55:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's going to be the primary target of Friday morning GM that we use in advance of the Sunday roster breakdown.
55:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's,
55:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is an interesting few days.
55:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of, it's kind of like the draft.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the days where a lot of things happen very quickly and all of a sudden an entire summer's work is all, you know, changed up in terms of your, your 53 plus your practice squad in the matter of a few hours.
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:31
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Spencer, thanks again for coming on and we'll thank you and we'll talk to you next time on film study.