Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 081: Live from Bozeman

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Ep. 081: Live from Bozeman · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is a me eater podcast coming in you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely bitten and in my case underwear lissen don't to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: eat podcast. You can't predict anything. It's it's it's thank
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: you for that. That's all I really wanted to do tonight,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So thank you. I appreciate it. It's super dark. But
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: where's a dude named Justin Grimes? He's not his honeymoon
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: They yeah, like they made this part of the honeymoon
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: trip man, which is really flattering something. We're glad you're here. Um,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: when I when I get uh, when I give wedding
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: but marriage vice, don't ever ask, but I do give it.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: And I was like, say, read like you're not gonna
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: understand that you do it, But read the works as
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you think about your married life, your married life, Read
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the works of Cormick McCarthy and looking there for the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: strict moral code that governs the world of Cormick McCarthy,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: because you'll find that the people that he's most severe
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: with are people who make a decision to do something
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and then later try to live a life in which
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: they hadn't made that decision. If you're just flat out evil,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Cormick McCarthy doesn't hurt you. He hurts people who who
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: dabble in evilness, So bear that in mind. Um, but
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Bozeman man, like, yeah, I heard everybody yelling earlier with
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: from Montana like I live in never like constant jealousy
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: of Montana residents. Um, you know I lived your long time.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: It's like I miss it. I love it. I learned
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a thing from my two year old recently that when
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: my twyar olds jealous of something, he just destroys it.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: So if his sister draws a cool picture and everybody's like, oh, Rosemary,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: it's amazing, he just is like no, And um, so
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I kind of want now. I almost like Montana to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: go to ship because like the way more people move
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: here to just go to ship and then I wouldn't
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: have to like come here and be so bummed out
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: all the time. That's really heartbreaking for me to come here.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: They advertised Montana where I live in Seattle, they advertised Montana.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So like, when I'm driving around stuck in traffic jams,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I gotta look at dudes in Montana, billboards of dudes
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: in Montana doing fun stuff. And it recently got better
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: because for some reason I got a guy up there
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: now paddle boarding and like, so I feel no jealousy,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like it's twenty years ago. If I
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: if you've had a dude over your house and you
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: live on a lake and you're like, hey man, you
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: can take the kayak all you take the canoe out
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: bro um, you can take this surfboard. I could like
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: duct tape a stick onto a paddle But it's like,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: it's like the Works. It's like Harry Potter books where
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: in a vacuum, you know, if you'd set humanity back
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: and let it go again, uh, we wouldn't be paddle boarding.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: It's like like but but if you set the clock
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: back of humanity a million years and like let it
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: go again, I would like to do that ten times
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: and see which things we stick with in which we don't.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm damn sure. Like a person is gonna see
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: a horned animal walk by and he's like, I'm gonna
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: find a way to run a projectile through that. Things
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: ribs like a couple of just behind the shoulder blade.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: It's like that again and again and again will emerge.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: But um, I don't mean a hack on paddle board
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: it's just like seeing that sign really is I just
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: feel it's not a legitimate pastime man um moving like
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: moving to Bozeman though, or like like there's a long
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: history of moving to Bozeman, and and it's like when
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I think about, oh I should move back here, you know,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: your your heads overwhelmed with all the things that could
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: go right and the things that could go wrong. UH.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Years ago, me and Matt here we uh I went
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: to check out sixty six miles east of here. Basically
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the highway UH runs over a grave site sixty six
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: miles east of here, and it's like they just there's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch of bodies buried in the grave, and they
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: piled some rocks on it. And later like the highway
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: kind of runs right along. It's between the highway and
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the railroad. So every time you go by, you looking
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: and see this grave and this guy. It was three
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years ago and three hundred and three
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: or a hundred fifty years ago and three hundred and
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: sixty one days, I think. Ago, there's this guy who
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: is in Illinois and his two daughters and his wife
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: carried off by pneumonia, and he's got one boy left.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: This guy's by the last name of Thomas. He's got
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: a boy named Charlie, so the only thing he's got left,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and he's got family in Bozeman. So in eight sixty
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: six is dude packs up and he's gonna move out
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to Bozeman, make the big jump, and he follows the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: or he goes to St. Louis and follows the Oregon Trail,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and like he's the Oregon Trail going along in southern
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Wyoming along the Platte, and then he jumps off and
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: he's gonna go and follow the Bozeman Trail. And at
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: that time the Bozeman Trail jumped off the Platte and
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: went up the east flank of the Big Horns and
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: hooked around to the north of the Big Horns. So
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: this guy is going along and he passes what the
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: what will be in a few months after his passing
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: the Fetterman Fight, where seventies some soldiers get massacred by
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Sioux warriors. And he goes a little further and passes
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the Little Big Horn Battlefield, where in ten years a
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: couple of hundred soldiers will get massacred by Sue and
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Cheyenne warriors. And he's traveled Jim Bridger and they and
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: they come across a grave site where they just buried
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: some other guys and he's all been out of shape.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: He's got a diary and he writes about how the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: wolves that dug them up and toward the rib me
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: off him. And there's another grave site and the wolves
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: that toward their face off them, and he starts painting
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: this like awful picture of moving to Bozeman. Eventually a
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: wagon breaks down and he leaves Bridger behind. And this
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: guy's a minister, and he's thinking to himself that I'm
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: gonna put my faith in God and travel without arms,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: because now that we're west of the mouth of the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Big Horn, we're in Crol country and everyone knows you're
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: safe from Curl country. So he pushes on by himself
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and they get over. Uh, like I said, sixty six
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: miles here a little bit outside of Columbus, and it's
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: him and his boy and a wagon driver named Joel Schultz. Uh.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: They get attacked. The next day they find the dad.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: He's got thirteen arrows stuck in him and he's scalped
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and he's parked by the rear tire of his wagon.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: His little boy's got three arrows and he's scalped by
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the front tire of the wagon. And Joe Schultz, the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: wagon drivers down by the river. He's got a dozen
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: arrows in him and he had two cutthroats. Two cutthroat
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: trouts they found the next day. So he was one
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: trout over his bag limit. And I always return like
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: approaching I always like passed that gravesite when approaching this area,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and I always think of that. But then, like if
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: you juxtapose that with my brother Matt, wasn't there a
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: bit and there were The Sun has a um diary,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and Sad has a diary. The dad has a diary,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: and in there it says something like, yeah, Jim Bridger
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: told me not to go this way, but he's full
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: of ship or something like that. That's that's rumored. He
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: had a diary. When he crossed Bridger Creek, he wrote
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: in his diary that we lost our coffee pot. The
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: crazy thing is the last thing Thomas wrote in his diary.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: The night before he died. He wrote in his diary,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: we broke our champagne bottle. People have always wondered if
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: it meant that he was so close to Bozeman, did
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: we we're celebrating prematurely? Or that like losing his coffee
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: pot when he crossed Bridger Creek he busted the champagne bottle.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: So there's like that version of moving to Bozeman which
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: sticks in my mind. But then you have like Matt,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Matt moves to Bozeman, earns himself a PhD. He points
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: out that it was his second one because he already
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: had a pretty huge and then still do then Mary's
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Mary's a girl of the ranch. So does that version
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: move into Bozeman? Um? I think about that. I do
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: think about this all the time. So with that preamble,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: we're gonna roll through some vexing questions. And many of
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: these questions have come from folks in the audience tonight.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Some of them are gonna be on the easy end
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: of things, such as the guy was wondering, were you
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: to encounterate? He calls it a legitimate sasquatch. Were you
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: to encounter inmate sasquatsh like not you know, the fuzzy one,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: not like an out of focused sasquash, but a legitimate fasquat.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: And uh. The comedian Mitch Hedburg he postulates the sasquatch
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Bigfoot is just blurry and you can't get a good
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: picture of him. But if you're gonna do it, he's like,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: what did he's take a timber buck? Would you take
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: a crack? Like? He adds to it, he adds the questions.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: The guy with the question asks some color to where
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: he's like, you know, no one's gonna believe you. So
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: here you are in this situation where you're just gonna
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: be the come of the laughing stock? Would you kill Bigfoot?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Are you asking? Are you looking at Yeah, no, don't.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I don't have an interesting answer that question is no way.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shoot some two legged thing that's walking around.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Like That's where I'm at on it. How do you know?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: How do It's like there's yeah, there's no tag system.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I would just like let it walk. I would. I
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: would for legal reasons. No, it's not like a reward
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: punishment thing. It's just like, hey, I've never seen one
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: of them before. Let's make it be dead. Ye, Like
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: guys are going to African safaris, like, so that's what
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: that looks like. The folks that mistake or these Let's
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: say you go on a hunt, right, You've never been
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: in Bearer country ever, and you go on a hunt
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: in the bitter at range and the outfitter says, shoot
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: any bury see and that hunter she would say, grizzly bear.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I hate that. You gotta know what you're shooting at.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: So for that reason, no, I like, I have never
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: seen that. I have no idea what it is. I'm
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: not going to pull the trigger for the you can't
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: judge the trophy quality on it, no established scories. Yeah,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: it might change after I come out with my story,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: but I would just let it pass and then be
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: when the sons of bitches believe me, I'm going back. Yeah,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't know. I feel like I'm trustworthy enough.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Would it be at least a small contingent of people
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that would trust me and we would It would regenerate
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: at least for another fifty years. Would be a strong,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you know, bigfoot community. No, I would not. I would
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: always think less of you. I would like I would
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: always I would always question your judgment. I would always
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: think a little bit less of you. I like when
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I get into are there bigfoot arguments? Um? The thing
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: that I found that I like to use, I don't
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: know if it's really that effective. Is They bring up
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: that this is an argument that serious people have anymore.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Do you ever like turn on cable television? Many build No,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I will indulge in for Max. It's it's interesting. It's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: a thing I try out when arguing with people about
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the plausibility Bigfoot. Is like I like to go to
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: when Florida was down to forty some panthers, that multiple
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: panthers every year getting hit on the road, and look
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: at all their like really limited populations of animals, and
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: then how many of them turn up dead on the road.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And then to bring up the idea that that the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: entire fire history of automobile travel, we haven't hit one
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: yet like that. It's just like if you got six
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of something one, I'm gonna get hit by a car.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And all other populations of animals, you know, well, maybe
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: they're just super smart. It could be Okay. Here's another
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: one that came in. This is this is like I
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: actually want to kind of hire this guy. There is
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: a guy named Luke Ryan. I want to hire as
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: like a resident company philosopher. Luke Ryan has this He's
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: got a lot of things. He comes up and This
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: is when he comes up. Have you guys been tracking
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: about the lone Star tick? Okay, there's a tick, lone
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Star tick. It's common in Texas. This tick bites you,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and when it bites you, you it's like when you
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: get bit by Uh, a chicken might carry a bacterial
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: infection that gives you lyme disease. This tick carries an
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: infection that winds up and this legit. I wouldn't read
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: about this. It winds up having it winds up that
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: you become allergic to red meat. It's an infection that
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: carries with it a red meat allergy. You become allergic
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: to red meat. You can become allergic to dairy. So
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: he's wondering, were this to happen to you, how would
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: your relationship to hunting change? Like would you keep hunting?
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I hate this question. It's kind of like yeah, it's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: like it's like a question that comes up. But I
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: just like this because it has like a spin on
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: like like how wet are you? You know? Because he
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: like he points out you could go and uh still
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: hunt and feed it to your kids food banks, but
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you can't eat it. Yeah, I wouldn't. I just that
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: would that would take it out of it. I mean
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the just yeah, this is it would lose its mystique
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: at that point. So last year my dad called up.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: He said, hey, I would love it if you could
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: get me an elk this year. So for the first
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: time in a long long time, I shot to elk
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: last year. But yeah, I don't know if the desire
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have the you know, hungry hunter hunts past. Right, Yeah,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: that's a tough one. What about Well he did add
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: in that you could you know, you would turn into
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the world's best water fowler and upen game hunters. Right,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. I would. I would,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, he gets rich. Yeah, he thinks about
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: this stuff. What's it's just red meat from big gaming,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: red meat and dairy. You can still fish, you can
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: still Crane's geese ducks. Those are pretty dark. I would
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: definitely do it because I've off a point out. It's
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: like if it wasn't for if it didn't get food
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't fun. If you drop either those things out,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: either those two things out, I'm done. All right, this
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: ceases to be fun and it ceases they old food.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I'm paddle boarding probably. Well, you're honest. You and I
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: were just talking the you know, purely getting groceries. Yeah,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you know what, there's I have spots where it's like,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: all right, didn't get anything. I don't call it hunting
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: because I know for certainty I'm going to be coming
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: home with something. Yeah, the grocery get Yeah, it's total groceries. Yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and I wouldn't say yeah, I don't want to chalk
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that up. It's like, yeah, super fun outing. It's like, boy,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go take an afternoon off and go get
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: a white tail though. But it's fun. Yeah, there's still
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: have some fun. Yeah, for sure, more fun than going
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to Albertson's. It'd be hard to HiPE for me to hypothesize.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I think I'd have to go through the process and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you know, be at home but right all up, wrap
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it all up, and then all of a sudden, be
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: later in the fall or that winner not eating it,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: and then see how I felt about it. All right,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: how about this one? This is another Luke Ryan Luke
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Ryan's wondered nous You're okay, it's such a complicated two
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: part question. And then Yanni like sequestered some of the
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: information that I can from the cooking side of things.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: How many times do you try to make some off
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: cut taste amazing? I feel like I would have a
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: horrible gastro intestinal life for a long time. Yeah, because
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I just keep trying. Oh you'll see when it wore off. Yeah,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: well maybe if I do this. I thought about it.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I worked for many an outfitter in Colorado, more than one,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: So you can say all that information. Okay, Now I
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: have permission to say something I was earlier forbidden from saying.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: But I got it so worked out now that I
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: don't need to say. It would be this. A guy's
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: wondering this. Luke Ryan puts this out there. You go
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: on a guided trip. Okay, you're going to guide a trip,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and then you're thinking yourself, uh, okay, now what I'm
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: gonna do. It's just come back and hunt this exact
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: same spot. Now that I know what's up, So your
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: book a trip, the guy takes you out, it's like,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: this is my great secret spot, and do the thing
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and the next year, like, see you next year. But
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: as an equal, is that immoral? I say yes? Well
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: what like? So all the yeses go like yeah. In
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the audience, that was the nose. I have to say yes,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: because you came out of the guiding industry. Well, I
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: don't think that's the real reason why. I think I'm
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: saying yes, immoral. Yes, I've seen it firsthand, and yeah,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I mean it's no different than walking in on the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: last final of the year and I grabbed Stephen Ronella's
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: final paper off the desk, scratch his name out, put
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: my name, Maa. You did all the work, you did
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: all the study, and you filled out the test. I
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: just put my name on it. Yeah, I want to
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: weigh and I say no. I say no. I say
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: it's not immoral, not immoral. You paid the guy, you
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: know what, that's true. That is a good point. Now,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: if it's your buddy and he takes you to your
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: spot his spot, that's an entirely different I don't even
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: need to ask that question. That is so immoral that
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I don't need that. Yeah, it goes without saying to
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the buddy, you'd never do that to a buddy. Where
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: is the difference you paid them? I think you could
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: come up with a prostitution analogy here. So now, okay, okay,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: just to provide a little context here, there's a guy
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: that wrecked somehow he realizes where Yeah, a place of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Janice used to guide. Can I talk about this? And no,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I realized that all that. I realized that all the
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: outits that worked for all had a similar setup where
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: we sort of drove through some private property, camps on
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: private property, lodged on private property, and then went to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: hunted national forest. The three ouferers that I worked for,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and again people can just do as much research as
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: they want, they all had a very similar setup. So
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you know exactly where this guy was talking about. You know,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: it would be hard to figure out. You have to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: go hunt three different spots that are you know, a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: hundred square miles each and then go, yeah, I know
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: we were talking about But anyways, Yeah, so he's got
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: But I think how his question was his question makes
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: it less morally, makes it more that more that it's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: okay to do this. Yeah, because he wants it right,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: he wants that answer. No, he here's the deal. That's
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: why I don't want to get into it. He's got
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: body working at this outfitter. So my okay, I'll tell
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: his question and then I'll give him my a point.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: He's got buddy's working at this outfitter that have obviously
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: opened their mouths and talked about the setup of this location, right,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: so they've gotten this inside information. Now he's asking if
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: it's morally okay to use that information to go behind
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: these private ranches and basically going hunt these spots that
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: these guys are So there's other ways to get in
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: there that don't involve going through the private property totally.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And what he's saying is so he's saying that his
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: buddy's screwed up and they lost their tight lippedness and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, wherever really killing these elk is on
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: national forest above the ranch that we're based out of.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: So he says, I'll see you up there. They and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: then you take that as a transgression, transgression against your outfitter,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I think, just against your but well, one of the
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: guys messed up for you know, flapping their gums and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: then too. Yeah, it's like, give them a little respect
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: if they told you about that spot. It's like where
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: they're working, don't go, don't go. How did everybody say
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the other week pissing the pissing the cathedral or no
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: baptismal fountains in the baptismal pomp um. So what if
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at all the things. If you're going
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: with anybody, your buddy outfitter guide, whoever, if they can't
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: blend them all together, absolutely don't blend. The thing is,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: if you are going with somebody who has a wealth
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: of knowledge about the area, about the animals, aren't you
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: take enough away without having to go to the exact spot.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I'm learning so much when I got out with you,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: like this is the way Steven Renelant, I come away
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: with that? Do I have to go in there and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: you know, kick you out of your spot too? But here, No,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: because here's the thing, he's making a claim of ownership.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: You're sort of making a claim of ownership that only
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: takes away your right to access. So you're saying, like, sure,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: anyone else is welcome to go here, the whole sixty
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: million Americans are welcome to go here, but you can't
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: because of how this piece of information came to you.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: So I think it winds up being like a little
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: bit like you're sort of getting screwed out of a
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: god given right because of the way that a piece
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of information flowed. It's a business train, it's a business transaction.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: You gave the guy money to take you to a
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: hunting spot. I mean, if if you, if you, if
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the if the outfitter didn't want you to go in there,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: go in there. It should be part of the contract
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, moving on, But no, no, no, because
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: it brings up the point of going into hunting spots
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that you've never been to you with your body, and
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: if you're the kind of guy that might follow up
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: with a hunt of your own in that same spot,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: you might want to, you know, bring that up to
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: your buddy's taking you into that spot. Well, if I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: ever hired an outfit or would be because I could
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: go into the spot, he shoulder. I've done that on
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: family vacations. I've done that. We go down somewhere, it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: hard to figure the fishing out. Yeah, go out like
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: hire something with the PONNDA, go out and fish for
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: two hours, come back and be like, resume business like more.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: On the way back, you're like, hey, you know where
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I can run a punco exactly? See, I would feel mad,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: So I think sometimes I would just turn down being
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: showed or even told about a spot and just go
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: there and learn it all my own to have a
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: clear conscience about it. With the with the friend thing,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: don't final thought on this with the friends thing, it's
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: way different than when a friend takes you somewhere and
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: shows you something. You have an obligation. It's at that point,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: it's like it's like sleeping with his wife, and at
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: some point if he says, you know what, you just
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: go ahead. That's you. Then you have to later call
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: back again and be like, Wow, my cousin, right, he's
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: in town, he's he'll probably never come back. I have
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: anxiety going with dudes two places because I'm like, what
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: if I really like it? What am I gonna not
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: go back? Yeah? What if it's full of out? It's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: like I'd almost rather like not have to supermanently scratch
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: off an entire chunk of the earth and just like
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: go find it on my own somehow. Moving on, Joe March,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: over your many years of hunting, what was the most
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: common mistake you found yourself making over and over? I
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: know exactly right to mine is that I'm putting the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: sneak on something like I've found something, I'm gonna go
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: get in on it, and there's something being an animal
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: um getting in on I mean I'm gonna, like, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: stalk in on it. Is that I, uh, all of
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a sudden realized that I'm like crawling and going way around.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: And I also realized that I'm just in plain sight
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of the thing because like misreading, like like misreading of
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: the laate like because you know, you think, like if
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I really was gonna do this right, I would go
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: three miles that way. And you know, but I bet
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I could you know that little rise and that little
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: little thing and that brush and you just sort of
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: like you're going along and the next thing, you know,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you're looking like, oh, it's looking at me. It's just
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: right there. But I somehow like misread all this stuff.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: That is like it just happens again again again. So
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: do you feel like you're misreading the landscape or you
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: just trying to take a short cut shortcut short cutty
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: like short cutty shitty little short cutting things. It's a gimme,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it's a gimme being nonchalant. Yeah. Mind. Similar mind is
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that I think I've spooped it, but I haven't start
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: like being uncareful because that's gone and then I run
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: right into it. Similar I think just moving too fast
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you know. You know, that's why I like going on
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a long haunt, because I feel like it takes three
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: or four days until I really start moving at the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: pace of the woods. And I feel like once I
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: hit that pace, you know, then all of a sudden,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: games just like doing this in front of me. But
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: when you're just when you're I'm moving too fast and
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at my toes instead of having my head up,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you know, taking it all in, I feel like you
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: just I'm not seeing the game, not in the zone. Yea,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: yea say it could be indifferent. It's forgetting my long
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: handled spoon and get your knuckles full of free It
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: will bother me the entire time I'm in the woods.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: He has I know better. Yeah, And you just had
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and there you are with dried cheese stuck to your knuckles. Um,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: do you have any okay, do you have anything profound
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: to say about being alone in the wilderness. This is
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: from a guy named Bob Dean, who should if he's not,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: he should be in the sausage business. Bob Dean, do
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: you have anything profound to say about being alone in
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: the wilderness by yourself or in a small group? Being
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: completely responsible for your well being without communication or support
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: from your society. Society. Dot's say that society. If if
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: anybody gets anything, I'll it's gratifying to know it will
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: be mean. Since I'm alone, I hope just someone gets something.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I don't care who it is. Oh, but you're always
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: with the llamas. So like in the morning, like you
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: look at all Yeah, you look at all that. I mean,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: like somebody's gonna get some today, right, guys. I think
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the thing that that that I've come to like about
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: not coming. I think I've always liked about wilderness, and
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: there are many of them, and I didn't really think
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: to articulate it this way until fairly recently. Um. I
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: started riding my bike in Manhattan years ago, and I
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: spent a couple of years, about a year riding a
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: bike regularly in Manhattan, and I realized that doing it,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: um that there was no room to have any other
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: There's no room for any other thought. Okay, so you're
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: riding along and you can't be like, man, I should
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: call my mom more often. It's like you just can't,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: you know, think about any besides exactly what you're doing,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: because exactly what you're doing, it's so dangerous. You just
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: described the yoga class and how they set that up
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and the artificial That's why I don't like it when
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: they try to do it to me in yoga, because
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it takes a lot more than a bunch
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: of us sitting around and comfortable clothes trying to be
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: the kind of people who aren't thinking about other stuff.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I need to be like forced into the situation not
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: think about other stuff. And so when riding my bike,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: and like when I was doing a lot of bike
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: riding in Manhattan, I was offered thinking about, Wow, it's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: really like I don't get this feeling that often of
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: not having any room for any of your thought but
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: exactly what I'm doing. And I realized that, like in
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of wilderness experiences now, when you're like laying
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in your bag at night, but just all the things
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that go into it, it winds up being like you're
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: forced to for sometimes day is on end. It's just
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: like just be focused on this thing because there's so
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: many there's so many aspects to it and things that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: keep in mind that you you do loose, you quickly
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: lose sight of all the nagging things that are rolling
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: around in the back of your head. I think I've
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: talked about a fair bit. Is they did this study
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: one time where they had people that they paired up
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: people and put them in a gymnasium and had them
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: throw a ball back and forth. So they break everybody
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: up into pairs, and each pair of people has to
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: play catch, and there's a there's an observer assigned to
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: each pair, and the observer is false to just count
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: how many times the ball changes hands. So it's a
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: gym full people playing catch and there's people watching them
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: play catching comedy times the ball changes hands. And then
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: in the middle of this they have a guy in
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: a gorilla suit walk through the gym. Later they say,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: like how many times the ball change hands? And you'll
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: be like a change hands thirty three times. Do you
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: know what's anything unusual? While you were counting the ball
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: change hands? Most people don't see the gorilla come through
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the room. And like those are people who are bad
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: being in the woods. Those are like those are like
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: bad wilderness people and um, and I think it's like
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: that you have to just be aware of like what
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: you know you need to be aware of, be aware
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: of what you're you're not really knowing you need to
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: be aware of. But just like spatial awareness is nice.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Last night at dinner college town, a lot of pretty
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: girls walking around. It's not because I don't care about
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. I'm just being aware of what's going on.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And you were wilderness. Um. Yeah, I think it comes
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: back to the damage about moving slowly and you know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: just and and getting to that point where you're just like,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's all the same thing that we're saying,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: that all other stuff gets out of the way and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: you're so just focused on just being there, and um,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you get to just experience I think days or time
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: or however you want to look at it slower than
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: and my regular day of getting up and just like
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: jamming and going and cooking and then you know, the
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: office totally back again. No. Um, So yeah, I just
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: think that that's is good for me, for my head,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: my soul, to just experience that slow pace. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I've been on a few hunts where um, you know,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the the It's been a number of things, clients guides
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: where there's connectivity up on the mountain some and now
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: it's worse and worse with um like the iridium go
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: there's ways to be connected to the outside world, and
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I truly don't want any of that stuff on any
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: hunts anymore because I've noticed, Um I just example, up
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: INBC last year or the year before, had this you know,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: awesome weasel encounter. You know, we eaels up there checking
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: out and running up and looking at you and just
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: kind of doing their very inquisitive, extremely entertaining thing. Only
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: person that noticed it because the other two dudes were
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: up on their phone because they've got a signal on
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: top of some mountain or something. Yeah. Yeah, it takes
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: you out of the out of the space. And I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: think more and more as connectivity it becomes, i mean
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: almost given in a lot of these areas, you'll always
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: have it. We need those those spaces and times to
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: disconnect them. Yeah. I went to a lecture by a
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: guy that had done solo long distance canoe trips and
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: one of what to see him you'd come off of
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: just doing the whole Shore Lake Superior, which is months long,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: and he was talking about You're saying, like, you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: when you're out in the woods for ten days, how
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: everything seems to um be slowing down and becoming quieter
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: for ten days, he says, at six once, I haven't
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: found the end of that. It's still it's still happening
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: six months, in which gives you a sense of how
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: wound up we could potentially be. That he hasn't unwrapped.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: He hasn't unraveled the string at six months. So when
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you think you're all kicking ass at ten days, it's
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: a tight coil. Man. I remember when you and I
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: would go first moved out here and we go hunting
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: for four or five days. I remember we'd come out
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: and we'd be driving home and like fifty miles would
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: feel super fast. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: You missed the pacing of things. What happened for me,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: they'll really change. The connectivity thing is after nine eleven
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: because you used to go um and didn't care, right
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: because I didn't have family or anything. So you went
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: to like be like I didn't care what was really
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: going on, and then all of a sudden you get
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: introduced to this thing that's like that that you could
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: have is like instantaneous catacort doesn't make events happened that
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: you weren't aware of. And it took me a long
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: time to be comfortable totally unconnected for a long time
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: because in my mind that happened like that, You're like,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: because you know, you'd be like, well, what could happen?
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: What could possibly happen? Then all a sudden you introduced
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: this idea that like, oh, like a thing could happen,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: and it nags you that you're out of the loop.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: We went, remember we went hunting the brakes, and it
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: was it was in that period, at the beginning of
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: that period when the when the Bush gore election, like
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: there was it wasn't clear who had won it, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we put off the trip for the election night. Then
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: we're like, okay, I guess we're just gonna to go
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: and not know. Yeah. Yeah, we thought it was gonna
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: be like a just a couple of hours delay. It
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: turned into what was it event? Ultimately? I want to
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: give you a flip side of this though, because something
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I think about quite often now is when I was
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: working in the woods, um, you know for the majority
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: of my ear and I was, you know, a large
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: part because of wanting to be I was disconnected from
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the outside world. I was had very little few thoughts
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: running through my head, or at least looking back on it,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I feel that way now, I feel like I get
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: cluttered because I know, like the public land's access issue
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: is is something that you know, I'm constantly thinking about
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: now and when I going into the woods, I'm staring
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: around being like, oh my god, are we really going
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to screw this up? Whereas back before, when I was
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: spending way more time in the woods, I never thought
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: about any of that stuff because I just truly didn't
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: even think about being connected to it. Yeah, you were
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: in a global citizen in your old woods many Yeah, Um,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: this guy was this guy's picking up on something, the
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Cody Bomber, who's picking on something up? And I said
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: sometimes I was talking about how I know a lot
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: of people who are a lot better at hunting than me,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and um, he's like, what's the difference between yourself and
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: the people who are better at it? And I know, Matt,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: you think a lot about Kent Unland being a real
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: good Yeah, who's not with us tonight? No, And there's
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: a couple other guys in mild City And frankly, I
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: don't know if I knew, I just start doing what
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: that is. Yeah, you know, I think, Yeah, for me,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's like when I look at the people.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I think that the thing that we do to measure
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: like good hunting nous would be there. How much is
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: someone able to do a lot of times we're looking
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: at how much is someone able to do something again
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: and again and again and again. So it'll be like, oh,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: you killed you know, in twenty years, he's killed twenty
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: bowls with his bow, So that person would would develop
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: a certain renown, right, especially when it goes out and
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't like three days. Yes, it's like burning all my
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: vacation time. And I find that like, and I find
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: that like just because of the details of my life
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I do. I do many, many kinds of things, and
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: so I have this like good cursory knowledge of tons
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: of ship. But don't focus in on like the thing.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: And when I do, when I look at like a
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: really great hunter, I'm looking at someone who can just
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: like do the impossible all the time, like some guy
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: like you know, hunting in the Midwest on public land
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: with the bow, killing nice bucks every year, right, no
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: fim permissions. I'm like that to me is like the
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: he's doing the impossible, right. Oh, it's it's easy to
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: define who the who the you know, good hunter is.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: It's much more difficult to say how he got to
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: be that way. But I think that, like when I
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: think of the guys that are so much better than me,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's like people who have picked a thing
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: that's difficult and just somehow focused and became like singular
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: in their pursuit winds up being the guys that look
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: at them like that's amazing. It's not so much that
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: someone that's like jumps around hunts every state and hunts
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: all around the world and does all these things once.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: It's like the it's the the person with the laser focus,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: but not the laser sight define the good hunter. It's
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: just for me dead like somebody that has like something
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: that's hard to do um, like killing an elk on
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: public lands every year in Montana. I think of that
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: with a boat, even with the rifle. But I think
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: of that is um. But you've achieved that, not with
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: a bowl um generally though, okay, with without using all
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: your vacation time. I like it. Yeah, Matt will go.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: You one time went and did twenty one days. I
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: routinely go twenty days. Yeah, there's some time card pudging
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: that goes into it. Good Aude you forgetting hunt twenty days.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Like the guys that are better than you, what do
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: they do? Like? What makes them better than you? Oh?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I mean a ton of stuff. I'm I don't feel
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: like I'm very good at any of it. I feel
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: like I'm still I'm still here. I look up to
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: many many people. So I'm just just need more days
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: in the woods to hone your skills. I don't think
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: that's it for me. I think there's something differentiate differentiates
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: like was an excellent hunter fifteen years ago? You know,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: so like I've got way more time in the woods
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: now than Kent fifteen years ago. Yeah, you get more
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: time in one trip than Yeah, because he doesn't you know,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: he doesn't need to go out very long six cents
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: something I would just will drop of something that some
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: hunters have and something. Yeah, maybe he doesn't smell. I
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: don't know. There's actually something to that man smelling people.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Um dirt math, if we're right, a powerful he has got,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: he's got a commanding presence. Um. Is there a way
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: to stop hunting with someone but still be friends, he says,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: he says, Or is it like uh? Or he says,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Also it sounds like the hunting equivalent of that girl
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: or guy in a relationship up that doesn't want to
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: date but still wants to be friends. Can you have
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: a hunting buddy that you're just like it just I
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: can't And I've had this happen in and I know
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: you've had to happen in your life where you're just like,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: I can't help with that guy anymore? Can you still
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: like be buddies? Something changes? It becomes hard to be friends, right,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: But I've gone to be an ot seed out of
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: the club, out of the club, and it's hard to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: find to still be friends. You know, when you've pulled
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: out the love making kel no experiences, man, I think, boy, yeah,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm missing a few. But they've they've kind
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: of naturally went their own way. Yeah, it happens, man.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: They don't like, they don't like to stop all. They
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: don't Their idea of hunting was a lot different um
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: those those types of you know, it's more mem No,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I think that like hunting together, well, no, hunting together
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: creates like really tight close friendships. It creates really tight
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: close relationships and it winds up it's just different, like
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: if you spend a handful of trips with someone. It's
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: just it's just you're just different with them. You get
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: to a place you don't get to hanging out like
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: drinking a beer and and so yeah, the later be like, man,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want like like, I don't want to go
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: out in the woods with you anymore and be with
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: you out in the woods anymore because of whatever it
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: is about you. You can't you can't be like, but
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: let's go get a beer. Yeah, remember that one time
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: we went hunting together and then I got sick of you.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I have I mean, I have buddies that I'll go
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: hunt with us and not pack a rifle because that's
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: the only way, you know. It's like, yeah, I love
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: spending time with you. Get let's go out and I'll
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: spot some stuff to call some stuff. But you're not
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: gonna hume with him now, all right. So with regard
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: to technology, where do you draw the line and what
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: this guy is getting at recently is there's uh uh knocks. Now, Okay,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: some guy recently came out of the knock that you're
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: putting your ararow that has a tracking device in it
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: so you can stick something and and track it using
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: GPS technology. So he's talking about knocks, um, and he
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: talks about trail cameras. At what point is like, at
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: what point does fair chase not exist anymore? And I
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: think he's looking for he's looking for an answer. Um.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I think, uh, Justin bros Bro, Justin Brows is looking
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: for like a concrete thing that you just won't do,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: like a demarcation get you. He wants it clean, he
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: wants it you can't do that because it's a nuanced thing.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Like having a knock that tells you where your gut
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: shot deer went. That just seems like better living through technology.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Now this game camera thing you can see where that
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: could that's treading on some uh than I want to
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: talk about knock and I think it's tie it into
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: this what makes a good hunter thing. I would argue
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: that the more you lean on technology, the fewer skills
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: you actually developed. Like I'd be like, I'm just gonna
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: gut shoot it because I got these Knocks's gonna do that. No,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: But he's saying, because you don't have to then track
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: the gut shot here and find it without the tracking
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: technology that you then don't possess those Okay, but if
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: you get a pass through. If you get a pass through,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything right. But let's but it's much
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: more fun to talk about these sorts of matters pretending
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: that it's gonna work good because then it allows you
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: to explore that the lighted knock right like lighted you
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: brother of the lighted knock, or the friendly brother of
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: the lighted knock when it when it passes through, it
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: puts out little arms and stays inside. Yeah like that.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even like reading books about hunting
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: because I feel like I'm gonna grab some chunk of
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: knowledge that I haven't actually learned yet and just assume it,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: and that's gonna hurt me in the long run. So
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the technology thing, like yeah, I
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: have a GPS, but I have a map that I
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: use way way, way more. But yeah, but here's five
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: thousand years ago people on this continent. We're not using bows. Correct,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: five to seven, they were using the adele addles the
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: bow and arrows invented a bunch of different times around Earth.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: So at some point in time, it went from being
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: that you were using a spear throwing well, you were
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: using a hand throwing spear and then you're using a
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: throwing board to get a better spear throw. And then
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, some dude comes rolling over the
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: mountain who's got a bow. You're like, that's cool to ship, right, yes,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: So he starts using that, and then you fast forward
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: and you have muskets, and then some guy starts besides
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: to cut a spiral groove inside of a musket barrel
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: and make a rifle. And the people that you were
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: using that, like Daniel Boone Hunter with he had a
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: rifle barrel. He went into the woods thinking that he
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: was using a technologically advanced tool that was leaps and
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: bounds ahead of what was available to his father. Get
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: what you're doing, it's wrong. You get what I'm doing.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: But it's like, it's just it winds up being a march.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: And I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for a minute here,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: because there are people who in dealing with fair There's
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: some like like hunting philosopher types who are dealing with
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: fair Chase think that we just need to abandon that
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: idea and focus on what they think we should focus
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: on is the idea of of fair use. Meaning we're
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: dealing with a finite resource. We're gonna need to figure
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: out not enforcing and making ethics legal or like this
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: is fair not fair? He's like how much pie is
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: there to divide up? And then we're gonna need to
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: limit our technology is not based on it being fair
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: or right or nice. We're gonna need to limit our
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: technologies to allow the maximum pool of individuals a chance
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: to get a piece of the pie. And it winds
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: up being like a you're talking about the same thing,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: but you're approaching in the way that I think is
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: like it just almost winds up being easier to think about. So,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna have technologies that are gonna drive efficacy
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: through the roots so used to be that are like
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: bone arrow like in this state, I could be wrong.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I think that archery success rates on elk had always
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: hovered somewhere between ten and so you could give out
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: that many more tags, okay for every elk, Like for
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: every elk killed, you could go out and give out
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: five tags and give that many people opportunity to go
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and be the figure out who's gonna be the one
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: that gets the one elk. Once technology pushes where efficacy
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: rates are gonna go so high, where we push it,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: you're they gonna say, Okay, most of you people are
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: no longer able to go into the woods because we
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: have a limited pool of resources here. Fair use, I
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: would say that you are then also going to have
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: a very limited amount of people who even want to
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: go into the woods because part of okay, access recruitment.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: That's like the biggest issue that we're facing right now.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: And and I use this analogy like the stock and
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: it's good for out out here here. Right everybody's got
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: a rancher buddy or a friend who's got a rancher
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: buddy who's got the stock pond out on their place,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, I want to go fish that
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: stock pond. You want to go fish that stock pond.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Eventually you get to go out. First cast, you catch
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: a fish, second cast, you catch a fish, third cast, fourth,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Eventually you're like, well, I know I can catch a
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: fish out here. Very rarely do you ever return to
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: that stock pond. Because yeah, but here's the thing I'm
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: driving in a lot of what you're driving at where
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: he were saying limiting technologies. If if we're we're gonna
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: have to we're gonna have to We're gonna have to
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: continue to because already limit technologies. You can't jack light, okay,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: or you can't for something jack like frogs. You can't jacklight.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Deer you can't use you can't use the artificial light
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: to find a deer. We're alreadying the practice of limiting technologies.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: What these people are saying, we talk about the fair
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: use idea rather than fair chase or ethics are saying, Yes,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: we're gonna limit technologies, but we're not going to frame
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the discussion around telling you what's right and wrong. We're
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: gonna limit it to be that we're gonna be able
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: to have the maximum number of potential, the maximum number
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: of people having potential to extract a resource to maintain
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: the best numbers. We're gonna limit efficacy, to limit efficacy,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: We're gonna start ruling out technologies. We're not dictating what's
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: right and fair and good. We're just dictating, like, how
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: can we maintain maximum engagement with a limited resource. So
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: they're getting that way you're getting, but they're not trying
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: to like they're just trying to like discuss it in
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: the way that doesn't make it seem moral, that doesn't
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: make you have to pick between right and wrong. Yeah,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: I'm a fair user. I would say that you're fair.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I find myself being in that way because it is
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: It's like I do all I have all kinds of
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: things that do that weren't available before. And if your
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: the measure of morality is was it available before, well,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: the whole damn thing boots. It's like, you know what
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, it gets really tricky, but it's like, you know, obviously,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: terminal tackles a heck of a lot easier, more efficient
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: in most cases than fly fishing. I like to fly fish.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: It's a fun thing to do. Some people say it
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: limits you that you do. Yeah, uh, but you know
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: there's gotta be some you know. I find like anybody
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: going into any sport, any activity, they're never going to
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: be more passionate about it than when they're learning. And
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: if we inject all this stuff that makes it easier
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: and easier and easier, you know, I'm like, when are
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: we gonna get to the point where it's like I
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: can kill a deer off my couch in front of
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: my computer, right, and then we're just not gonna have
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: people that want to go out in the woods. But
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: we're the only like we're the only like like hunters
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: are the only type of people. Fishermen too, who really
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: are like screwed up about this stuff in sports. They're
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: always like making rules and sports and people don't they
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: don't turn it into this big like what's right and
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: wrong and a big moral dilemma. It's just like we
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: agree that for our game to kind of like be
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: the way our game is, you can't use that ship, right,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: And everybody's like, like, there's nothing called this hand ringing.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: You know. You got a couple of little girls coming up.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: They're popping some rabbits around the house, not quite yet,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: not quite know. They talk about it a lot, okay,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: sometimes just staying with their mother. Their mother has a
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: little cream on their face and they see bunny rabbit
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: go by it and they go, Baba, monny rabbit, let's
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: kill it. He's like, um, but yeah, not quite yet,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: but go ahead. But I mean, do you want to
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: you want to bring them up the way you were
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: brought up with that technology or you know, I don't say,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I don't really care as long as they're in the woods,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: you know, and enjoying it. So yeah, but I'm we've
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: been not gonna engage in the hand ring. No, We've
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: talked about the fair used thing before, and I think
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. It does. I've never
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: heard that before, and I think you're just gonna get
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: more people, you know, the of of different mindsets to
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: sort of converge and be like, yeah, we can all
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: agree upon that because we all want opportunity. We all
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: want to hunt every year, and for me to hunt
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: every year and everybody else that wants the hunt every year,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have to limit how we do it and
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: our success rates. Okay, how do you cope with the brutality?
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: This one guy named Dave Smith, who would be hard
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: to look up on Facebook with that name, Dave Smith says,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: how do you cope with the brutality of mother nature
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: and its food chain? I find the wolves and bears
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: to be bullies of the animal world as they strive
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: to kill the young and helpless. Maybe I'm becoming too
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: soft for the sport or I'm not gonna read it
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to be associated with that kind
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: of thinking. Um, maybe I'm becoming too soft for the sport.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Wondering if anyone else feels the same and becomes upset
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: because you're unable to help a young animal live another day.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Would you rather see the yearly become a good age
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: rather than a bear or wolf pull it away and
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: shred at to pieces while it remains breathing? He really
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: liked its just just yeah, if you say where he
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: wants you to go mercilessly ripping it while it's screams
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: an egg and he I mean, I don't know, how
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: do you feel about to have? You know? I always
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: when I see a predator prey interaction, I am damn
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: sure always rooting for the predator. Oh, I'm always rooting
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: for the prey, like when you watch the prey. Yeah,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: like when you want on TV tvie, like if you're
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: watching like in your motel room, like you know, Cheetah
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: going after a baby gazelle or something. I'm definitely rooting
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: for the gazelle. But no, he's not in real life.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: A break. Okay, I'll remember this, I'll remember this the
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: day I die. We were Do you remember when we
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: took the writer Ian Fraser on his first deer hunt?
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Okay again, we talked about the breaks that we're in
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: the Missouri breaks we're in the area with all the
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: White cliffs, and it's called the White Cliffs area. Looking
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: at all that area with Ian Fraser, who is full,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: he's very nervous about what he knows is bound to
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: happen on this hunt, that the blood could very well
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: be shed by his hands. And I remember we're floating
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: along in pigeons what you're called rock doves. Where they're from,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: where their you know, their native range in Eurasia. There's
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: a bunch of pigeons stood up in the cracks and
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: the White Cliffs, and there's a redtail hawk. Oh, I
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: would be rooting for the Hall. Yeah, working work in
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: the area over the cliffs, and the pigeons were real
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: nervous about getting out too far from the cliffs. And
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I remember, and this was well over a decade ago,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: this was in two thousand, seventeen years ago. I remember
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: exactly what you said. I remember the look on his
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: face because you said, man, I hope that thing comes
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: down and bitch slaps one of those pigeons. And and
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: it was like it was like an epiphany. It was
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: like a thing went off in Ian Fraser's mind of
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: being like like a sudden awareness of a way that
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: one could view nature, and I think it like changed
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: him forever, Like the look on his face, and it
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: was like a kind of a laugh, kind of a revelation.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: It was kind of like someone saying if someone came
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: down and said to you, like, you know what you
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: know when you die? That really is that, you'd be like, jeez,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: really yeah, so I know you route right, it's apparently
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: as case specific because yeah, all right, there's nothing sadder.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's like it's weird too as a
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: hunter to say things like this and realize that you
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: think things like this. But to me, there's just's nothing
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: sadder than an offspring being separated from its mind. You
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: a love offspring being separated from their moms. It is sad,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I though. That makes me laugh. It just makes me
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: so uncomfortable, I know, but it's just true. Man Yny
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: prayer Man, predator man. When I'm watching BBCNE why you
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: guys can talk about television. It's like, you guys spend
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: an enormous amount of time outside. Yeah, but how many
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: times how often you actually see something kills something? That's
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying, are you rooting for it to happen
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: or not? When I'm watching. No matter what I'm watching,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I'm always like i'm watching. If I'm watching the Bear,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like always hopeful that all of a sudden he's
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: just gonna rampage into something and tear at the piece.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Can I read between I just like, I'm like always
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: hoping if I'm watching, I'm in the best case scenario
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: in the question for a minute, you want to read
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: what he actually No, no, no, I just want to
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: read between the lines. I think, don't you think that
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: he's saying we got to get rid of all the
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: wolves and stuff? He's an aunt. I believe that he might.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: And I can say this name Smith because who in
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: the world is gonna find Dave Smith. I think Dave
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Smith might be an anti predator guy. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: and that's where and he's like, I'm an anti predator guy.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to just come right out and say that,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: So I'll talk about the brutality with how which they kill.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not picking sides. I'm rooting for the interaction that happened,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like happy to sit there and watch
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: and enjoy the observation whatever whatever you know, happens. Sometimes
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: if you're watching one of them, uh documentaries, and and
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: the lion looks all scraggly and super hungry. Then I
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: start rooting for good boy. I am with you, honest
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: completely here, Like every time I've seen something big or small,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: I am just in awe of you know, just by somehow,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: some crazy set of circumstance being in that small area
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: of the entire freaking planet that this is happening, and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: it just magically happens in front of me. Like I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: can't get my head around from that to be like,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm team squirrel on this one. You know,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: it's like it's just an amazing You're not like in
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: a position to Yeah, that'd be like, hold on YouTube,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: can't we work this out? Yeah? And I mean there
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: are no bullies of the animal, like they're just doing
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: what they do. Yeah, I got you. This is kind
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of in the same vein. Someone says, Uh, they have
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: a three year old daughter. No, three year old. I
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: don't know if the boy or girl. Um. He started
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: exploring what what is a girl? He started exposing her
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: to the concept and outcomes of hunting and fishing as
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: a source of food. He says, she helps and he
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: throws that in quotes, and I know exactly what those
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: quotes I mean. She helps me portion in package primal
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: cuts of game, and again she helps clean and flay fish.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: She knows that the food we eat is deer and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: fish and turkey. But I have not exposed her to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: the more gruesome tableau. I like this guy to the
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: more gruesome tableau of killing or skinning an animal for
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: fear of painting her nightmares. This is good, Jonathan Ingram,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: It's really good read on. But I have not exposed
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: her to the more gruesome tableau of killing or skinning
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: an animal for fear of painting her nightmares. What are
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on how best to expose our kids to
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: these things without pushing them into the opposite polar extreme.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Obviously every kid is different, but general thoughts would be appreciated.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: These guys have never bred a woman, which I pointed
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: out before, so they're not like even kind of I'm
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: just gonna turn slightly this one, but I can simulate
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: it really good success. Never successfully bred. Um, it turned
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: slightly towards honest. Uh. I get this a lot, and
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a real um. There's like a
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: lot of trepidation with parents that I think maybe didn't
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: exist before, where parents are really worried about exposing kids
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: to violence. I like that. I think that he really
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: is getting at he doesn't want to ruin it later
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: by over pushing now. But in addition to his concerns,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's a real concern where parents feel that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: like hunting is violent, it's a violent act. Can't get
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: around it, um and limiting kids exposure to violence, I
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: think towards this idea that like, uh, they're not going
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: to become violent people like human They're not gonna pick
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: up like human on human violence. I've evenen countered where
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: at of people who think that their kids, like seeing
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: a firearm is somehow going to push him in that direction,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: like that the only thing separating their kid from becoming
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: a sociopath is that they haven't seen a gun yet.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: And I always like to think there's a little bit
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: more holding my kids back on that end. Um. But yeah,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of fear around this. What
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: like what have you as you've dealt with it with
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: your daughters, and I know that they've seen a lot
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: of the tableau. I think you can do a lot
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: worse with just what's out there on television. Um, yeah,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: I guess television mostly in just general media for scaring
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: your kids away from whatever it is. You don't want
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: him to be a you know, scared of you know,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I mean if he's talking about actually like painting nightmares, Like,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna come from cutting a chicken's
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: head off or gutting a deer, but it will come from, um,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: you know something like my kids are are seriously scared of.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I don't even know the name of the movie. What's
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: someone with a little um yellow characters. There's thousands of
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: them minions. Yeah, they watch that ship and they are scared.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: They don't know what's going on. It's it's the stuff
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: moving fast, every dire action and when you're not used
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: to that. There's a lot of violence for a kid's
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: movie in there, and I think a lot more there
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: than us at homes, like slapsticky violence. Yeah, I think
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: if you watch it with the critical yeah, yeah, but
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: still again, stuff they're not used to because they just
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: don't watch that kind of stuff at home, you know. Um,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: you're just interject quickly, please, So I think that there
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: that a lot of this is just in eight in
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: kids like some of them. I have friends whose kids
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: you need to look at the kid and be like
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: that kid ain't gonna hunt. Yeah yeah. And then you
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: got people kids on the other end of the extreme
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: and were just at the cabin and you know that
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Matt our good friend, Matt Drost, and his daughter was there,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: his eleven year old daughter. She would catch an octopus
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: in one of the crap and one of the shrimp pots,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: and she's playing with this thing. It's stickers are hanging
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: off and crawling them, and she plays with it for
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: a half hour and then just takes a knife. She
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: lives with the reality she was brought up with that though,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing right, are trying to make their nine hunting
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: kids in the hunt in the hunters, and they're exposing
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: him to all of it. But it's just not catching eye. Sure,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: you know, you know there's two the interesting things. Uh.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: The thing like we're always like tripped up that we're
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: in this like now as a society, we've arrived at
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: these things that other people weren't dealing with. But Francis,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: there's a historian and the nineteenth century historian Frances Apartment
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: and Frances Apartment wrote at the time like the definitive
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: history of the French and Indian War. And he was
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: asthmatic and was sent by his doctors like you need
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: to go out west. In eighty six. He comes out
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: west and visits the Black Hills of South Dakota in
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: eighteen forty six. And now it's believed that it's his
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Partment was probably in the same Iglala Sioux camp that
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Crazy Horse is probably thirteen or fourteen years old, and
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: that he was traveling with Crazy Horse, and he would
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: describe how joyfully the Sioux children would torment everything that
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: they found that was alive with toy Bow's just it
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: was just like if it moved, you went after with
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: your toy bow. And he took it to be that
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: it was just like a training thing. And there's a
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: documentary it's about First Contact groups in South First Contact
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: groups in the Brazilian rainforest and the kids in those communities.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: You were brought up to bring stuff home and jab
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: it and jab every little thing you can find. It's
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: so I think now like when we look at now,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: if I look at my kids and my kids like
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: he's very aware of hunting, really interested hunting. I mean
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: all three of them are, but the oldest one is more.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: He just puts a lot more to get other because
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: he's older. Um, he has this thing now where's like
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: he knows we hunt, He's done some hunting. He's the
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: hunted small game. He sees it, he wants to get it.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: And you might be like, oh, you know we've created
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: this demon. Well I don't know, like are you criticizing
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: all those like all all those other cultures who cultivated
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: that and children like you're gonna learn the skill set.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: You're gonna learn the skill set this way, you know,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Like as much as we would disapprove it, Now, what
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: do we do when we were kids? Oh we had that?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: What do we hunt? The mode of being a kid
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: that you just described, where do we hunted? Chip? If
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: there's a lower chamber and hell for people that wantingly kill?
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Roads were just like it was like you wanted to hunt.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: And it's like all the other stuff that later gets
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: piled on top of that, all the all the ideas
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: of of of use and ethics and a suff at
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: the time, it's just not there at times, like there's
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: certain people who just want to engage in the activity
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: and learn it now, that's how you learned it. Later,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: you learn all the things that make it what it is.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: So I don't think it's necessarily like, I don't think
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: it's I don't view it as a thing I need
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: to shield my children from. There are things that they like.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Like you saw my boy for whatever reason you he
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't like to see c cucumbers get hard. Same kid
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: that will go down to the ocean collect all kinds
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: of eels and little fish and put them in a
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: bucket to suffocate overnight. And you're like, hey, man, let's
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: let these we're gonna die. And he's like, but but
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: a seagull or I'm sorry, a c cucumber. He wept
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: over the death of the c c cumber. So I
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't run around spending a ton of
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: time like thinking that there's something wrong with what seems
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: to be like really natural things about my kids. And
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: I do put a ton of weight on what were
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: my experiences and what are the experiences of the people
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: that I love and associate with the most, and the
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: people that I have sciate with the most and that
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: I love the most. Grew up around catching fish, cutting
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: them up and cleaning them, shooting squirrels, cutting up and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: cleaning them. And they turned into like, despite all of it,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: turned into like the most stellar individuals that I've found
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: on the face of the planet. So I'm just not
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: gonna now like buy into this idea that we need
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: to question it all. Yeah. We took some folks into
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: the frank Church Wildern a couple of weeks ago. Um,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: one of which was a pscytarian that had never killed
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: her own fish, so he took care of that. And
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: another gal who had never caught or killed the fish.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: But can you explained that? So she was just eating fish,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: not eating it was the only protein. Yeah. And and
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: this is because I put out a big spread for
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the first night, the only animal protein. Yeah, only animal protein. Yeah.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: And I took it to me and like, oh, you
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: just don't like process food. It was like I got moves,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: I got all the and it was sweet, but it
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: was like, no, I can eat none of that. That's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: where the last silver salmon of the year came in.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: But so it was an amazing, amazing thing. And these
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: gals are in their mid thirties. Um caught their first fish,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: killed their first fish with shaking hands, coached them through
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: cleaning these trout and that that was very tough. But
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: I have opened up the stomach contents and look at
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: stuff and that actually made things better by turning into
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit more of a science project. So that
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: might be a good tip for this fellow. But I
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: have women are vicious. Yeah, they're crazy. There is something
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: in the brain that when they know they can provide it.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I've seen it before and on this trip was no different.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: Once these gals had caught, cleaned, cooked on the campfire
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: and eating their own fish and actually shared the fish
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: with others, there's no doubt in my mind they would
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: have sat there and cleaned that lake out, like to
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: the point, hey, we've caught enough fish where you you said,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: like you basically said, you know, it is okay for
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: there to be some brutality in your life. Yes, and
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: it was this quick and actually for yourself and it's food,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: and oh I can aid it. You know, the whole process,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, out of the lake, into the fire food.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: They would not have stopped. They were had to be forcefully,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: forcefully removed from the lake. I knew a follow up
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: because what I do worry about, I'd like to hear.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Your take is that I don't because I don't worry about,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: you know, painting their nightmares with deer gut guts and blood.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: But I do worry about pushing it too hard. And
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: then we have and has a couple of friends that
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: have you know, adult kids now that aren't really hunters
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: a few days a year and because it got shoved
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: down there. Yeah, they just were pushed too hard as youngsters.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: And so I do worry about that more and really
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: try to you know, balance it out with you know,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: dance class and um, you know, other things a little
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: girls like, and then we have hunting and fishing, you know,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: and I try to really balance it and so and
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: not jam it down their throat. Yeah, I think about that,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: and I know people say it and I've even said
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: it before, but I feel like, um, I kind of
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: view like with our kids, I'm like, they're either gonna
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: be let's do this full balls or not, you know.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And so I haven't really worried that much about being
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: really careful about like, oh, you know, we're gonna be
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: on the water an hour and if you want to stay,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get you office. I don't want to burn
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: you out. I just haven't thought about it, like I
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: know people say it, but I've pushed him because I
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: think a big thing that I want to expose them
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: to through hunting and fishing is I want to expose
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: them new ideas about like being comfortable being uncomfortable, okay,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: So like getting used to the idea that when you're uncomfortable,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: you're still okay, that when your board you're still okay.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: That these are things that that that lead to other things,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: right that there's like you you pass through this and
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: come out the other side and it's like more amazing
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: than anything you could have imagined. So if I just
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: went up and set it up that everything was like
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: this like really easy time, not only the thing you
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: want to make it like an always like a success
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: are always an easy time. But you know, not hunting fish,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: you know, twenty one days in a row. You know,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: I got what you're saying, Like, yeah, okay, that you're
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: only reading only read hunting stories at night, you know,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: throw out you know, no more James and Giant Peach
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: would just read about Yeah no, no, I am sensitive
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: that I thought you were saying something different. I am
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: sensitive to that, like like I do really want well
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: rounded and it's like in my setup, in my way,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: my life structure, I can't escape the well rounded nous
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: I don't have. We're not like in a place and
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: sort of in a professional space where we could just
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: do that one thing all the time. I think, like,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: I think we get a lot of that. That I've
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: gotten a lot of uh mileage out of is that
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing has really opened up a lot of
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: conversations and gives you a template to discuss a lot
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: of things that are otherwise very difficult to discuss. I
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: remember we're cleaning perch with my boy this he's seven
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: now four or five. We're cleaning perch and we're looking
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: at I don't know, we're flaying pink Sam sorry, we're
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: looking at eggs, like like sperm sacks and eggs, and
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like yo, uh and he and I was explaining.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, she like she lays him out on the
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: rocks on the bottom of the river and he comes
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: in and just sprays the milk or semen on those
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: eggs and that's how it's fertilized. And it was like
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: it just took a second for him to think that
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: that delivery mechanism would not work with human beings. And
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: I then I had like then I explained him, like
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: the difference, Right, there's the other way of delivering the
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: sperm more directly to the egg. And the next day
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: he may you can explain that to Ryan and me. Yeah,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: I keep I keep needing to change where I'm aiming,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: so I'm not gott aim back this lay you gotta
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: he got a packer, uh he um. The next day.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: I the next day I overhear him He's explained this
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: to his nanny and he says, and my mom did
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: that three times, So it does. Yeah, this gives you, like,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: like I think, but everything man like set. You know,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: it's like the like sex and death right like death,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: sex violence. It just get gets you in a way
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: of it just like opens up all this way to
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: have all these conversations and that just like based off
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: like books you read. You're like looking at like actual
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: real ship on the land or on the ground or
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: in the water, and you're talking about like real things
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: that have major implications. So if there is some added
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: risk that you're gonna raise a socio path because you
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: guys went and flay to perch. I don't know. Um,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: I just don't think it's a real issue. I'm done.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: What was that? I mean, everybody tracking, anybody have like
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: a big like a thing they need to add. Question
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: everyone's tracking, Go ahead, what is the thing you gotta add?
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: What is each of your favorite animals done? All type
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: of game animal? You look at that, honey? Nothing really
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Now I'm just thinking if you should give him hell
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: or not for asking that question. Man, I know what
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: yours is. Well, it's just a difficult questions because there's
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: like elcohol, which is just not fun. But it's like
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: what I do most of the time, but you recognize
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: it just yeah, it's a vision quest. It's not intended
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: to be enjoyable, but just pure enjoyment like squirrels probably
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: just as like having fun. Yeah. Yeah, for me, it
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: used to be like I after having done it a
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: handful of times, it was doll sheet, But now I
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: think that, like, um, I really I just really enjoy
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: hunting mule deer because I like to spend a lot
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: of time sitting up on a glass and tip just watching.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's like a pretty like there's a
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: lot of opera tunity There's a lot of opportunities in
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of places, and I just like to I
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: just I like those days where the day just passes
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: and you just observe you and Mule, You're like really
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: lends itself to that you're kind of being most constructive,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes being most constructive by just not doing anything, just watching, watching, watching.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: So yeah, dear mules, spotting it before your buddy, what's
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: all about? When I had dogs, I would have traded
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: anything for bird hunting. Um the Yeah, I don't. I mean,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I truly enjoy it all. It's very, very tough, but yeah,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: mule there is is absolutely my most favorite thing in
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: the world. When I'm hunting mule here, It's not like
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: I'm everythinking about being some other place. Uh, but I
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: love calling things an you know, duck, skies, elk deer
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: or whatever. So uh, that's answer everything. Yeah, give me,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: give me a lot of vacation time and I'll fill it.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: Buglin bulls for sure. Really, that's real precise. I like
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: that you're uh, what are your thoughts on hunting? This
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: guy has a lot of questions. I feel like you
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: go a little bit of axtagrind justin burden maybe, I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: mean not a bad way. What are your thoughts on hunting? Uh?
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: He points out white tailed deer in the preserve, so
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: he's talked about it was like animals raise in the
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: pen raise environment, like high wired deer hunt. Yeah, what
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that they're hunting fenced up animals?
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: For me, I'd like i'd put it more on the
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: grocery side of things, on the hunting side of things. Yeah,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: it's it's called farming. Like, yeah, I mean that's that's
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: the only problem I have with is the confusion they're
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: creating with farming and hunting. But there's that there's the
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: added level of then of that they are in. Like
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: the action is very similar, right, you just like go
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: and kill this farm race thing. But then in post
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: when it's consumed or talked about, the farm animal remains
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: the farm animal and it's just eating. But the supposed
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: hunted behind high fence animal sort of might have this
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: that dude as a tool if he tries to be
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: like yeah, and there, I knew there was a fence
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: just a little ways down. That's what I'm saying is
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: that's it's it's it is the same, and it's not
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: the same, So it might even be worse somehow. It's
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: like morally worse, worse than farming. But you have farm
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: animals on your property and I've gone on with you
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: and shot him to head of the twenty two lambs.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: It's just for me, it's like, there's no confusion between
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: the right. We're talking about a situation here now that
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: has all the trappings of hunting, but it's not hunting.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: But I don't get confused by it. There's a fence,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: but why do people why do people like could create
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: the confusion? Yeah, I don't know. Well, then you can
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: blow this thing way up right and you talk about
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: South Africa and it's like, well, yeah, but it's twenty
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: anchors fenced, right, But is that the I mean, that's
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: not really question right. I don't know. It's an enormous
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: gray area. I I put it the gym pose with
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: who's like a like a kind of hunting philosopher. I
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: put the question about it to him, and I was
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: pointing it to him where I was saying, like, no
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: one would say that you're bad if you raise sheep
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: in a pen and shoot sheep and eat them. There's
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: nothing like there's no ethical. That's the ethically wrong. That's
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: just how we get me. It's like farming right ethically
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: a okay, But why do when when a guy raises
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: up a deer, puts camouflage clothes on, goes through some
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: of these sort of like some of it, goes adopts
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: many of the trappings of hunting, shoots the pander, and
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: then positions it as being that he hunted it. Like
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: why does that feel wrong? Like? Why does that feel wrong?
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: But I don't think it's wrong. I don't think any
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: of it of his unethical. It's all the first part
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: of it that's all his own business. And then the
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: last part where he reacts like he hunted it, that's
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: just annoying. I don't think if it as an ethical issue,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: yeah not yeah not. But but he had a really
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: interesting point about the business positives at an interesting point
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: about the business of selling wild animals. So where you
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: take wild animals, raise them in a captive environment, and
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: then sell hunts for those wild animals. What he doesn't
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: like about it, and he's not he doesn't pass the
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: moral judge. He says, there's many ways to get meat, okay,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: But what he doesn't like about it and he and
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: he put it and it was the kind of the
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: most interesting take on it that I've ever heard, is
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: positives pointed out, it's like what they're selling, they're selling
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: the idea of a wild animal, Like the animal that
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: you've gotten defence only has value because it is it
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: still is brings to mind or is associative of wild animals.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: People don't pay to come shoot steers. So when you
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: sell the opportunity come shoot a deer, saying like, I'm
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: taking a thing of that that has value because of
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: the real version that we've made a moral financial commitment
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: to have wild life and it's created value for this animal.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: I'm taking that thing of value, putting it in an
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: artificial sense and capitalizing on the value that wildness has
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: created to sell to you. And that's that's where he
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: finds the offensiveness is like the sort of false marketing
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: that's going on there. But it's kind of a victimless crime.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like you're only just it's just mental masturbation.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: If a guy wants to do it, it's not hurting
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: anymore until you begin to look at and this is
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: the point that heat again, if you were to put
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: this to gym posits. It's a victimless crime until you
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: get to look at issues of disease transmission, which is
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: becoming a major issue with captive deal. So here you're
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: in a situation where you're taking the essence of wildness
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: selling that to someone in a situation that is threatening
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: the existence of the side of wildness that we're all
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: acknowledging we value anyways, by creating a fake version inside
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: for sale. Couldn't agree more. Essence of wildness should be
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: a meat eater branded cologne. All right, we're out of time. Oh,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: I was curious the last podcast came out and I
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: didn't I've had a chance stop issue a question, Gin,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: But when you're on an unlimited chief hunt, you gotta
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: check into the quota, right, And I've answered the question
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: for myself, but you didn't answer it on the podcast.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: How do you see if the quota has been felt?
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: Where those two go or two sheep shot and you
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: gotta have a radio? Is that right? And then they
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: put that out at noon? How's that? Oh? That's interesting questions? So, uh,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: he's referring to that there are and it's not just
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: the unlimited Chief units. There are a lot of hunts
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: where they'll have a unit. There's BlackBerry units like this
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: and all kinds of areas where they have like a
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: minimum um, they have a maximum mortality threshold that they're
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: going to achieve in a population, and so sometimes it's
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: limited to females, like like you might have a Mountain
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: lion unit where they're they have a maximum female mortality
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: threshold of three. So the season's gonna stay open until
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: they hit that cap. And in those situations where you're
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: hunting in one of those units, you need to stay
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: apprized whether the season is still open, and they'll usually
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: make it that they're gonna be like that. It closes
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: on forty eight hour notice, so someone kills the third female.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: Let's say they'll put out a notice and you have
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours. Let's say you're on a ten day
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: hunting trip. Um, how do you know? And you either
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: you gotta make a phone call, so you either walk
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: out and you know, go to a pay phone like
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: in the old days or now a lot of people
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: carry satellite phones, or you time or you time your
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: thing out where you know that like you can check
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: it at the trailhead and it's still open, so you
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: know that you have at least forty eight hours and
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: then you need to recheck again. But you have it's
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: your respect in those like quota system things that your
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: responsibility be constantly checking in to make sure the quota
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: threshold has been met. I don't Pete munic. Pete Mutick
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: yelled out, is it sat phone? Pete didn't come left?
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Is Kurt here? It is the hunter's responsibility at a
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: radio station that would you know? You bought your little
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: radio and they play it at say or whatever time.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: That's what I read. I was just curious. Yeah, no,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: I'd like to get hear from Kurt, but he's dead.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: Um Matt concluding thoughts, oh Man woll that was kind
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: of a conversation, stopper. I came in har enjoy I
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: enjoyed chatting with you all in front of a bunch
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: of people. Was a bright light in my face. No,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: like big meaning of all things. No, I don't have
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: like some big like umbrella statement that I could make.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: Sorry you didn't tell me. I had to be prepared
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, well you know what. I wasn't
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: ask it, but we ran out of time. As a
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: dude named Joe March had this what makes it good
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: human being? So I attempted to, like, uh, you know,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: hold court about like Kant's categorical imperative or Nietzsche's Nietzicie's
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: idea of a ubermant or something like that. But I
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: think I'm just gonna offer not what is a sufficient
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: condition for being a good human being? But I'll offer
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: what is a necessary condition, And I'd say that that's
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: supporting public lands. That's good. So call I have, We're
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: gonna run with what's the good? What makes it good
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: human being? As the concluders what makes a good human being? Patience? Really,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: what if what if you're patiently waiting to kill a
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: small child? Well, perhaps in that situation, while you are
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: waiting there for your opportune moment, you have an epiphany
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: and move on. Yeah, uh kind of go a trust
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: and commitment. Yeah, you gotta flesh it out a little bit.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: I mean they can't, just because I just feeling it's
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: a little not soft. It's a little bit like I'm like, yeah,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: like the white supremacy of that. Ah, Matt just made
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: too good concluding thoughts, Um, well, I don't. I just
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: feel like that if you if you have those two things, man,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: you can kind of tackle anything and continue on and
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: do well and think all things that you try in
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: relationships and jobs in the universe. And I agree, but
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: you're taking for granted an enormous amount that they're trusting
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: and committing to a thing that is that is of good.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: That's true, Um, because I had I had lugs you
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: to like think about this, because I'm the guy with
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: the computer with the questions on and I'm like, when
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: I was saying that's an unfair man, you sound way
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: more like, Yeah, I don't want you to think. Don't
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: don't think I spent too much time on this. We're
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: just shuffle and we were just kind of still doing this.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: My wife convouished me. I was mess to where I
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: don't have any you know, I'm flying off the coffee here.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't think about this one because I questioned whether
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: it was, like, you know, within our bailo Wick, right,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Like I questioned whether it was this question, yeah, like
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: does it fit the theme what the show is about?
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: And no, but there's something really seductive about it. It's
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: just like six clean words, man, and what makes it
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: good human being? And when I had the lugs you
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: thinking about this, you guys, and I would be like,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: I think I kept thinking, like, what level of fine
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: tuning are we in while I'm talking with this, please
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: think about the commitment stuff, because I do want to
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: hear more, but like, do you be like what level
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: of fine tuning? When we make a show, we start
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: out where we're talking about like big, huge problems things,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: and then later like you know that, like second, can
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: we change that second so that second you know? Were
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: you like you're so like so good human being? I'm like,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: are we what where is he now to begin sort
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: of shaping him and advising him. And the reason I
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: was thinking about that as like, up until a couple
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: of days ago, I wouldn't think that had to be like, oh,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: don't be a white supremacist. There's a starter, right, like
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: you're setting the guy asking the question to be like,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: but now I'm like, oh, so we're starting out like
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: we're starting out like really broad basics ship that we're
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: not able to hone in on, like the fine tune
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: details that you don't know if he's at the Ten
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: Commandments level or if he's kind of further down on
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: the road, and taking like this like great guy, right,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: and he's being like, yes, you trust the commitment, like
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: you've got it, like you're head in the right direction,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: you know. Um so yeah, if I think about what
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: makes a good human being, I'll tell you like a
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: thing I like in people that like in people when
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: someone is holds this contradiction where they're really um steadfast okay,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: but also really open to all the ideas floating around.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: But all the ideas floating around. Don't make him be
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: like this, right, the ideas floating around, make him just
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: be like this right, you see in my hands even
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: moving side to side like you know, then I in
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: in in that is like that's the thing I like,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: That's the thing I like that I think about and
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: strive towards and like and just try to keep in
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: mind as a hiding thing, like just being aware of
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: all these things and and and enjoying the movement rather
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: than you know, our father hated movement, like he hated
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: if you thought, Like if you thought something that these
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: you didn't like it that you like your Yeah, I
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: like your what you're saying, Like all your beliefs are
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: at least somewhat contingent, but you believe in them real
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: hard somewhat quite a bit. Yeah, maybe we have. And
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: it was thought I can't add to I can't add
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: to you know what. I feel like that was sufficient thought.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: So what would you say to someone specifically a woman
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: there was a hunter before and still is, but has
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: a hard time hunting after giving birth because of the
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: beauty of life. Yes, I wouldn't urge you to go hunt.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: I remember what. I think. That's something I think that
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: some like things that happened to people are like pretty
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: like I don't probably legitimate. Yeah, I think it's a
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: great question. I don't think anybody that should doesn't want
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: to go home and should go home. It's not that
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to, I think, and I tell my
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: husband this, it's like, once you've given life, it's harder
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: to take a life, which sounds ridiculous, but no, I
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: think I've heard this from other women before. You just
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: watch the whole process play out, and it gives it
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: like a level of saying. And it's not anti hunting,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: because we live off the meat and we process it ourselves,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: and so it's not anti hunting at all. But it's
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: almost harder for me to be able to go hunting
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: now after giving birth to a human beat no objections.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: Continue to support public lands. Be patient, um beat in
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: tune to the idea that you might shift on that,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: but then remain steadfast and uh focus, all right. Thanks
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: for joining us,