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Is Sandplay Therapy Effective? · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy, a weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy to elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas, so you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:34
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:49
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there! Welcome to this week's episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:55
  Cathi Spooner: Today I want to talk about whether or not sand play therapy is effective based on what we've seen in the research, and also how that applies to play therapy.
• 1:11
  Cathi Spooner: To do that, we under, we need to really understand terminology and concepts.
• 1:17
  Cathi Spooner: So I thought it was also a really good opportunity to clarify the difference between sand play therapy and sand tray therapy, because often what I notice is we use those words interchangeably and they're not interchangeably.
• 1:36
  Cathi Spooner: In the same way as play therapist we tend to use art therapy interchangeably with using art and play therapy or music therapy or any of these other expressive arts.
• 1:51
  Cathi Spooner: And we really need to understand and think about the terms that we're using and what that communicates because there are differences.
• 2:02
  Cathi Spooner: In the same way as play therapists we're really protective about that term play therapy because Play therapy is different than pulling out games and toys and using an adult psychotherapy model to get children to talk.
• 2:24
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so I think it's really important that we are aware of the terminology, that we understand the difference with the terminology that we're using.
• 2:36
  Cathi Spooner: And because I wanted to highlight this study and the results of the study.
• 2:41
  Cathi Spooner: It also means that we need to clarify the terminology that we're using and what that means for the results of the study, especially if we are going to apply it in the play therapy arena.
• 2:58
  Cathi Spooner: If you're, if you're a therapist who uses other expressive arts modalities as well, then it's important for all of us to understand the difference of the term in the terminology and what exactly does that mean for the services that we're providing.
• 3:18
  Cathi Spooner: So let's get started for today.
• 3:22
  Cathi Spooner: So I, I would love to know who's watching today.
• 3:27
  Cathi Spooner: If you're watching the live version of this broadcast, I would love to know who's here.
• 3:34
  Cathi Spooner: Post your name in the comments.
• 3:36
  Cathi Spooner: What population you work with.
• 3:39
  Cathi Spooner: What modalities do you use?
• 3:42
  Cathi Spooner: Are you a play therapist?
• 3:43
  Cathi Spooner: Are you an expressive arts therapist?
• 3:46
  Cathi Spooner: What, what modalities are you using?
• 3:49
  Cathi Spooner: What population do you, do you work with?
• 3:53
  Cathi Spooner: So I'm Cathi Spooner.
• 3:55
  Cathi Spooner: I'm a licensed clinical social worker and registered play therapist supervisor, and I have been working with children and adolescents in a variety of capacities, including special education as a special education teacher for ED children.
• 4:11
  Cathi Spooner: I would, I still use that experience and knowledge that I gained way back in my bachelor's program back in the 1980s.
• 4:22
  Cathi Spooner: So I've been working with children, adolescents, and families for a really long time.
• 4:27
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and what I really like to do now is engage that teacher side of me.
• 4:35
  Cathi Spooner: And kind of talk about some of these issues and how to, how do these apply to our profession.
• 4:42
  Cathi Spooner: So I would love to hear from you guys.
• 4:44
  Cathi Spooner: The only thing that I would ask is that you not post specific questions about clients.
• 4:51
  Cathi Spooner: This is a public format, so we want to make sure to maintain that privacy for our clients, but feel free to post questions.
• 5:02
  Cathi Spooner: Happy to engage in that conversation.
• 5:05
  Cathi Spooner: If you're watching the replay, please feel free to also post your name and comments.
• 5:12
  Cathi Spooner: I love to know who's watching post your feedback.
• 5:17
  Cathi Spooner: If you're listening to the, um, podcast version, then I would also love your, uh, feedback.
• 5:26
  Cathi Spooner: Please leave a review.
• 5:27
  Cathi Spooner: Please feel free to reach out to me and let's get started for today.
• 5:32
  Cathi Spooner: So today I want to talk about sand play therapy and some research about its effectiveness and highlight some things that I think are important for those of us working with children, adolescents and families and those of us in the play therapy arena.
• 5:55
  Cathi Spooner: I'm going to talk about a training that I have coming up because I think it also kind of highlights what we're talking about in this live stream podcast episode today.
• 6:07
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and that is my in person training that I have coming up using a neuroscience and attachment lens with sand tray in play therapy.
• 6:18
  Cathi Spooner: And you'll notice I said sand tray, not sand play.
• 6:22
  Cathi Spooner: And I am going to chat about that a little bit today.
• 6:25
  Cathi Spooner: So let's get started.
• 6:27
  Cathi Spooner: First and foremost, um, the topic that we're talking about today is, is sand, sand play therapy effective?
• 6:39
  Cathi Spooner: To really understand the results of the study and also its application to the work that we're doing in real time with our clients, we really need to clarify terms.
• 6:53
  Cathi Spooner: So what's the difference between sand play therapy and sand tray therapy?
• 7:01
  Cathi Spooner: So sand, both of them have their roots in the work of Margaret Lohenfeld and her sand world technique, but they go different directions from there.
• 7:15
  Cathi Spooner: So it's really, um, important to understand those differences.
• 7:20
  Cathi Spooner: So because this, this influences how you're communicating to others and what you are communicating about what you are doing to others.
• 7:32
  Cathi Spooner: Keep in mind, that the clients that we, that we serve, this, this isn't their profession, it isn't their everyday life, unless they're in the profession, because those of us in the profession, we know that we go to therapy as well.
• 7:47
  Cathi Spooner: We take our kids to therapy, um, because we want to engage in the benefits of that.
• 7:54
  Cathi Spooner: The vast majority of our clients are not in the mental health field, so they're not necessarily going to understand the difference.
• 8:02
  Cathi Spooner: But one of the things I've heard often, um, especially from people over the years in my play therapy academy, So Play Therapy Academy is my online play therapy consultation program.
• 8:17
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested in that, you can pop over to my website and I'll talk a little bit more about that at the end.
• 8:23
  Cathi Spooner: I do have one opening.
• 8:25
  Cathi Spooner: I expect that to fill up fast, but feel free to, um, ask me about that as well.
• 8:33
  Cathi Spooner: So one of the things that I hear pretty regularly is, um, Um, they'll have clients who come to them and say, Oh, I got this kind of therapy.
• 8:43
  Cathi Spooner: Like, oh, I got child centered play therapy and I was in the session with my child.
• 8:51
  Cathi Spooner: So they're kind of expecting that's the same.
• 8:54
  Cathi Spooner: That's what's going to happen.
• 8:56
  Cathi Spooner: The problem is just by the fact that they said they were in this session.
• 9:01
  Cathi Spooner: If you're a trained play therapist and you're trained in child centered play therapy, you know, they didn't get child centered play therapy.
• 9:10
  Cathi Spooner: So it kind of sets you up to be in an awkward position as you're kind of explaining to clients, Oh, okay.
• 9:20
  Cathi Spooner: Well, um, actually child centered play therapy is applied this way.
• 9:25
  Cathi Spooner: So here's how I do it.
• 9:27
  Cathi Spooner: And then you, you go on from there.
• 9:29
  Cathi Spooner: It kind of sets up some confusion.
• 9:31
  Cathi Spooner: So when we are using the terms that we're using, it's really important for us to understand those differences.
• 9:42
  Cathi Spooner: Sand Play Therapy has its roots in the work of Carl Jung.
• 9:48
  Cathi Spooner: It has its roots in Jungian therapy.
• 9:52
  Cathi Spooner: It's based on the work of Dorkhoff, who took, trained with Margaret Loewenthal, and then she, Dorkhoff, applied a Jungian lens.
• 10:02
  Cathi Spooner: So it's going to go a slightly different way from there based on that theoretical model that's being used.
• 10:11
  Cathi Spooner: So in sand play therapy, sand play therapy based in union therapy theory is non directive and non interpretive.
• 10:23
  Cathi Spooner: And that the non interpretive, cause I've been doing trainings for a very long time and I've done a lot of training in people that have, I've done a lot of trainings with people who have roots more in a Jungian framework and then they've kind of integrated other things, but my initial training had a lot of roots in sand play.
• 10:47
  Cathi Spooner: That being said, because that's not my ongoing training, I don't refer to myself as a sand play therapist because I haven't gone through all of the extensive training required for that.
• 11:04
  Cathi Spooner: So I, I refer to myself as a sand tray therapist.
• 11:08
  Cathi Spooner: So what then is a sand tray therapist?
• 11:12
  Cathi Spooner: I use sand tray therapy in play therapy.
• 11:16
  Cathi Spooner: So sand tray therapy is a more general term and it's It's, it's more general because the type of, the type of theory model that you're using when you're using the sand, sand tray and the miniatures, it's going to be applied, the way you use it is going to be applied based on whatever theoretical model you're using.
• 11:47
  Cathi Spooner: Now most of us even use more of an integrated approach.
• 11:51
  Cathi Spooner: But here's the thing, like I had this conversation with another person recently, you know, once we get in the field for a while, maybe we're, you know, 10, 15, 20, 30 years like me, we start saying things like, well, theory doesn't matter because in the real world, when you're working with clients, you know, we just do what works.
• 12:13
  Cathi Spooner: And my, my response back to that is, well, you've been using, you, the, those interventions you're using, you use them based on a theory model.
• 12:25
  Cathi Spooner: So now, so you've integrated them, but they're still based on a theoretical model.
• 12:30
  Cathi Spooner: You've just had more practice using them based on that theoretical model than maybe somebody who's brand new.
• 12:37
  Cathi Spooner: So it's more natural.
• 12:39
  Cathi Spooner: So my point here that I'm making is, even though you're using an integrated approach, which most of us do.
• 12:47
  Cathi Spooner: It's still based on a theoretical model, and the way that we're applying it is based on that theoretical model.
• 12:56
  Cathi Spooner: So sand tray therapy, sand tray in play therapy, that's what I usually say, like for my training that I have coming up, using a neuroscience and attachment lens with sand tray in play therapy.
• 13:13
  Cathi Spooner: What I'm communicating there is I tend to use a neuroscience and attachment lens when, as part of my integrated approach, when I'm using sand tray therapy.
• 13:27
  Cathi Spooner: And so in the training, that's a lot of what we're going to talk about.
• 13:31
  Cathi Spooner: We're going to be looking at how are you using sand tray in play therapy.
• 13:37
  Cathi Spooner: with a neuroscience and attachment theoretical lens.
• 13:40
  Cathi Spooner: What does that look like when you're using the sand tray in play therapy?
• 13:47
  Cathi Spooner: So, you know, is it tomatoes or tomatoes?
• 13:51
  Cathi Spooner: I would say no.
• 13:52
  Cathi Spooner: I, I would say it's apples and oranges.
• 13:56
  Cathi Spooner: So, apples being sand play therapy and oranges being sand tray therapy.
• 14:03
  Cathi Spooner: They're in the same fruit category.
• 14:07
  Cathi Spooner: They're different types of fruit.
• 14:10
  Cathi Spooner: That's what I would, I would say about that.
• 14:12
  Cathi Spooner: So let's get into the study.
• 14:17
  Cathi Spooner: Usually like, so whenever I'm, uh, preparing, uh, a training, I always like to go and see what the research says.
• 14:26
  Cathi Spooner: in preparation for this particular training that I have coming up using a neuroscience and attachment lens with sand tray in play therapy.
• 14:36
  Cathi Spooner: I wanted to go a little deeper.
• 14:38
  Cathi Spooner: So I've done this training before and I really wanted to expand it and go in a little more in depth because I like my sand tray trainings to be small where we have more of a kind of a, uh, opportunity for more interaction.
• 14:56
  Cathi Spooner: We get our hands in the sand.
• 14:58
  Cathi Spooner: I really like it to be a little bit kind of retreat like in that way.
• 15:03
  Cathi Spooner: So in order to do that, I wanted to do a deeper dive.
• 15:06
  Cathi Spooner: And in doing a deeper dive, I always like to look and see what the research says, because I also like my trainings to be up to date with what we're learning from the research studies.
• 15:20
  Cathi Spooner: So I found this really interesting study in the International Journal of Play Therapy.
• 15:28
  Cathi Spooner: So for those of you who are interested in reading more about this study, you can look it up in the description.
• 15:35
  Cathi Spooner: I cited the study in the description so you can find that, and look it up.
• 15:41
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so for those of you who are members of the association for play therapy and you get the international journal of play therapy, it is the October, 2022.
• 15:56
  Cathi Spooner: Um, issue of, of the International Journal of Play Therapy.
• 16:01
  Cathi Spooner: So the, the title of the study is a Meta-Analysis of Sand Play Therapy Treatment Outcomes.
• 16:09
  Cathi Spooner: And so the, the purpose of the study is they wanted to analyze 40 quantitative studies of sand play treatment, which meant they had with with those 40 studies that represented 1284 participants from eight countries to evaluate the effectiveness of sand play therapy in, uh, as a treatment approach for children and adults.
• 16:46
  Cathi Spooner: Who had a wide variety of mental health issues.
• 16:49
  Cathi Spooner: And what I liked about this study is, a couple of things.
• 16:53
  Cathi Spooner: One, it had a pretty, but since it's a meta analysis, it's kind of looking at the results of a lot of different studies.
• 17:03
  Cathi Spooner: I always like looking at the meta analysis.
• 17:06
  Cathi Spooner: And, It also represented studies from eight different countries, had a pretty good population size of 1, 284 participants, and it looked at a wide variety of mental health issues for children and adults.
• 17:26
  Cathi Spooner: And so here's what the researchers found.
• 17:29
  Cathi Spooner: What they did is they used a few different measures.
• 17:33
  Cathi Spooner: to evaluate, evaluate the outcomes of the data, evaluating three domains of behavior.
• 17:44
  Cathi Spooner: So they looked at internalizing behavior, which they identified as things like anxiety, depression, self concept and somatic symptoms.
• 17:56
  Cathi Spooner: Those were the internalizing behaviors.
• 17:59
  Cathi Spooner: And then they looked at externalizing behaviors, which they identified as things like social interactions, parent child relationships, aggressive behavior, and defiance.
• 18:13
  Cathi Spooner: And then they also looked at characteristics.
• 18:17
  Cathi Spooner: Um, symptoms of ADHD and that the characteristics of ADHD that they looked at were things like hyperactivity, impulsivity and inattention.
• 18:29
  Cathi Spooner: And so in, there were some studies that included both internalizing and externalizing behaviors.
• 18:37
  Cathi Spooner: So those were still included and then the data collected when in they looked at the study and kind of extrapolated specific types of either internalizing or externalizing and they looked at the specific data for those.
• 18:52
  Cathi Spooner: So they did include those in the study.
• 18:55
  Cathi Spooner: So here's what the results found.
• 18:57
  Cathi Spooner: Um, they found that sand play therapy was effective to address a wide variety of mental health issues for children and adolescents based on based on the data.
• 19:12
  Cathi Spooner: And what they also found was also interesting, which was clinical outcomes.
• 19:18
  Cathi Spooner: So positive outcomes and improvements were found in as little as 10 sessions.
• 19:25
  Cathi Spooner: But there, but they also looked at, um, the effectiveness of sand play was found to increase over time.
• 19:36
  Cathi Spooner: So more, the more sessions that were provided, there was also improvement to be found, but not statistically significant.
• 19:47
  Cathi Spooner: So what the, the authors of the study kind of, um, hypothesized about that, so to speak, they proposed that the more sessions that were done allowed a deeper level of healing, but wasn't able to measure that.
• 20:05
  Cathi Spooner: And that's one of the problems we find in some of the mental health research is it's really hard to define and quantify some of the, um, outcomes such as this.
• 20:24
  Cathi Spooner: Because we kind of intuitively know as therapists and we know like, because we're kind of the hands on boots on the ground, that's where you have research.
• 20:35
  Cathi Spooner: And then you have practical application.
• 20:38
  Cathi Spooner: And how do you kind of, um, work with those in a way that the research can be effective.
• 20:49
  Cathi Spooner: Because we, you know, we say all the time, there's research and then there's practical application and trying to, uh, kind of marry those two together, so to speak, can be challenging, but what they, what the authors proposed and what I think most of us have experienced is that the more sessions, more than 10 sessions allows you to go to a much deeper level because the more, the more the more you're able to do that, you have to build the trust.
• 21:22
  Cathi Spooner: Because we're asking people to be vulnerable.
• 21:24
  Cathi Spooner: So we have to build that trust and allow them to go in a deeper level.
• 21:30
  Cathi Spooner: That being said, if you are in a setting where you get a limited number of sessions, like maybe you only get 20 sessions or even less than that, it's kind of encouraging, not kind of, it is encouraging based on this study of the, uh, uh, that where they did a meta analysis that you could see positive improvements in as little as 10 sessions.
• 21:59
  Cathi Spooner: So even if you don't have a longer period of time, there's still benefit to be able to use sand play with children and adults who are experiencing a wide variety of mental health issues.
• 22:16
  Cathi Spooner: So, how does this apply when you're using sand tray in sand play?
• 22:23
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, when, sorry, my mouth's not working today.
• 22:26
  Cathi Spooner: How does this apply when you're using sand tray in play therapy?
• 22:32
  Cathi Spooner: So, to me, it really does highlight the importance of understanding theory drives application.
• 22:41
  Cathi Spooner: So, you're, you're gonna, if you're using sand tray, in play therapy, what theoretical model are you are you using?
• 22:51
  Cathi Spooner: Even if you're using an integrated approach, how, how is the way in which you're using it based on some of the theoretical application of the theories that you're using?
• 23:06
  Cathi Spooner: And then how are you integrating them together?
• 23:09
  Cathi Spooner: And it's important to keep that in mind because in sand play therapy, which is what the study is based on, they looked, they looked at studies where there was, um, adherence to sound play therapy, which means they're going to use non directive and non interpretive.
• 23:36
  Cathi Spooner: So they're not going to be leading the discussion.
• 23:41
  Cathi Spooner: They're not going to be providing like feedback about meaning.
• 23:46
  Cathi Spooner: They're not doing any of that.
• 23:47
  Cathi Spooner: And that being said, they still found improvement.
• 23:51
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're using sand tray therapy, what theoretical models are you using where you're integrating that with the, the play therapy approach that you're using with your clients?
• 24:07
  Cathi Spooner: And that part's really important because what I find a lot of times is the people who aren't taking that time early to learn a theoretical model, then what happens is you kind of get lost in the process.
• 24:25
  Cathi Spooner: So somewhere in the treatment process, and usually the middle stage, you get a little lost.
• 24:33
  Cathi Spooner: You start feeling like, uh oh, it's not working.
• 24:36
  Cathi Spooner: And maybe you feel a little internal pressure on yourself to prove that this play therapy thing works.
• 24:43
  Cathi Spooner: And then you start kind of throwing together lots of different approach kind of, I always say that's a lot like throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping something sticks.
• 24:54
  Cathi Spooner: But is that really as effective as if you're using an intentional approach, with the models that you're using, even when you're using the SAND, the sand tray, and the miniatures.
• 25:11
  Cathi Spooner: So there's a really good quote in this research article that I wanted to read, because I think it kind of sums things up really well.
• 25:20
  Cathi Spooner: So the authors of this study hypothesized that sand tray therapy was effective because, and here's the reason, I'm going to read this quote.
• 25:28
  Cathi Spooner: The consistent effectiveness of sand play therapy across domains in the present analysis might lie in its multisensory, symbolic, less verbal, and actively experiential approach.
• 25:45
  Cathi Spooner: There are several advantages that sand play may have over traditional talk therapy to effectively treat more diverse populations.
• 25:55
  Cathi Spooner: Sand play appears to lower the threshold for for the initiation of psychotherapy and provides people that have barriers of verbal expression a safe, direct, and contained means to access and work through difficulties.
• 26:13
  Cathi Spooner: And that's, um, that's a direct quote from the article.
• 26:18
  Cathi Spooner: So to me, that's, I also liked that quote cause it kind of got into the neuroscience y part, which then to me leads to attachment, um, in the, in the approach that I like to use with sand tray when I'm, when I'm working in sand play, it's, you know, if I'm using child centric play therapy, then I will stick with the child centric play therapy model, even if the child chooses to use the sand tray.
• 26:50
  Cathi Spooner: If I'm using a different approach, then I'm usually integrating in using more of a neuroscience and attachment lens.
• 26:59
  Cathi Spooner: And, um, I say union informed approach.
• 27:04
  Cathi Spooner: So, um.
• 27:07
  Cathi Spooner: These same, so the same principles are true when you're using sand tray.
• 27:11
  Cathi Spooner: Like I just kind of gave an example of, even I use an integrated approach, but it's based on these theoretical models.
• 27:19
  Cathi Spooner: And so the way in which I apply the model is going to be based on these theories.
• 27:25
  Cathi Spooner: And I'm going to be conceptualizing the problem and why the problem is happening based on those theoretical lenses and also helping me to understand.
• 27:38
  Cathi Spooner: where the client is in the change process.
• 27:43
  Cathi Spooner: And what does that, what does that look like in each stage of the change process based on these theoretical models?
• 27:51
  Cathi Spooner: So that is it for today.
• 27:53
  Cathi Spooner: Let me just do a quick little recap.
• 27:56
  Cathi Spooner: The topic today that we're talking about is, is sand play therapy effective.
• 28:03
  Cathi Spooner: And it's really important to understand terminology and concepts, especially because it, it influences, and I would say theory drives application.
• 28:18
  Cathi Spooner: So understanding sand play therapy is based on a Jungian theoretical model and the way it's applied in sessions through all the stages of change will be non directive and non interpretive.
• 28:37
  Cathi Spooner: And then sand tray therapy is more of a general term.
• 28:42
  Cathi Spooner: So the way you use sand tray therapy will be based on the models that you're using with the sand, the sand tray and the miniatures.
• 28:56
  Cathi Spooner: Because it's probably it's going to be directive and non directive.
• 29:01
  Cathi Spooner: So it might be a little child or client led and it might be a little therapist led.
• 29:07
  Cathi Spooner: You may choose to do some interpretation.
• 29:10
  Cathi Spooner: And it's going to be based on your theoretical model because it's going to influence your theoretical model is going to influence the way in which you show up.
• 29:21
  Cathi Spooner: What you say, what you don't say, how you say it, when you say it, what that looks like when you say it, it's going to influence all of these things, so it's really important to understand those differences.
• 29:37
  Cathi Spooner: And with the results of this study, this study analyzed 20 quantitative studies.
• 29:44
  Cathi Spooner: So it was a meta analysis looking at, I'm sorry, 40 meta, my mouth's not working today.
• 29:53
  Cathi Spooner: It's a meta analysis looking at 40 quantitative studies that included a total part number of participants of 1, 284 people from eight different countries who were exhibiting a wide variety of mental health issues and that what they found is that sand play therapy is an, is an, um, an effective model and can be, can change can be, um, accomplished.
• 30:33
  Cathi Spooner: Improvement can be accomplished in as little as 10 sessions.
• 30:39
  Cathi Spooner: It can be more than that.
• 30:41
  Cathi Spooner: And as therapists.
• 30:43
  Cathi Spooner: We tend to go more than that to go deeper.
• 30:47
  Cathi Spooner: So they did find that more sessions did have show demonstrate positive outcomes like more, more improvements for the client, but it wasn't statistically significant.
• 31:02
  Cathi Spooner: And the the authors of the study kind of proposed that that had to do with it's difficult to measure.
• 31:09
  Cathi Spooner: When you get into that deeper level of change.
• 31:13
  Cathi Spooner: So how does this apply to sand tray in play therapy?
• 31:19
  Cathi Spooner: When you're using sand tray in play therapy.
• 31:22
  Cathi Spooner: You want to make sure that you're grounding the work that you're doing in a theoretical model.
• 31:29
  Cathi Spooner: Even when you're integrating theoretical models, make sure that you are understanding how each of those are each of those models are applied.
• 31:42
  Cathi Spooner: How do those models understand the problem and how do those models guide you through each stage of the change process?
• 31:53
  Cathi Spooner: When you're integrating that, you're, you're kind of taking, you're still using a framework to get you through each stage of change based on the theoretical model that you're using.
• 32:07
  Cathi Spooner: So it's not just kind of.
• 32:08
  Cathi Spooner: you know, thrown together and fly by the seat of your pants, so to speak.
• 32:14
  Cathi Spooner: It's grounded in the theories that you are integrating.
• 32:21
  Cathi Spooner: So that is it for today and I will see you again next week.
• 32:31
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 32:36
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gained new insights and tips.
• 32:39
  Cathi Spooner: Transcripts and ideas to support your work helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 32:45
  Cathi Spooner: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 32:50
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 32:56
  Cathi Spooner: Remember, Play therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth.
• 33:01
  Cathi Spooner: Whether you're a new play therapist or experienced, I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work and relationships.
• 33:12
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topic suggestions for future episodes, I'd love to hear from you.
• 33:19
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 33:32
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 33:35
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning, and growing.