Latest / Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner / Breaking the Strong Black Male Myth

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Breaking the Strong Black Male Myth · Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner

• Don Talk: What's up everybody, we back at it. Darron what's going on with you man? D. William: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, man. Feeling good, feeling right. You know, got my rum, you know what saying, or apple juice, whatever you want to call it, but I'm feeling nice. Don Talk: Yeah, let's start off with that. So you drinking some rum today, D. William: Yeah, there's some little bamboo right here. Definitely rum is smooth and it's feeling nice. Don Talk: This episode is brought to you by unofficially, unofficially Uncle Neer's master blend. now, we gonna go ahead and get this party started, man. This is Don Talk breaking ⁓ the strong black male myth. Being a Don doesn't mean being It means leading with truth. D. William: ⁓ ⁓ Mm. Don Talk: So, growing up we were told to be strong. Told to don't cry, don't complain, don't fold. D. William: Man, Mike, I'm telling you, man, and for a long time, that message, it helped us survive, you know what saying? But at some point, survival stopped being enough. Yeah, man. Don Talk: Very true, very true. So this episode is about the myth of the strong black man, how it protected us in some moments, but now we realize that it quietly hurt us in other moments. D. William: Absolutely right, Mike, man. We're talking about mental health, emotional safety, and what real strength looks like when men finally feel safe enough, to be honest. Don Talk: Yeah, that's key, safe enough to be honest. That's the crucial phrase right there. So ladies, this conversation is for you also, understanding why men hide their emotions is the first step to helping them heal. D. William: Right. Right. Don Talk: So we got some questions here that's gonna spark the conversation. I've done a little research, been doing some reading on this stuff. I've been growing a lot in this space in the past two months. I ain't gonna lie, the past two months alone, I've been growing a lot in this, you don't gotta be a strong black man, which society has taught us to be ⁓ growing up. So the first question to kinda kick this off is like, where did this myth come from? D. William: Absolutely. Don Talk: We're just trying to have context here, not blaming anybody, but where did it come from? So when did you first hear, be a strong black man? And what did it mean to you at that time? And to give a little context to it, I've done a lot of reading with Jason William Wilson at this point in time, past literally, like I said, the past two months. when his quotes from his book, Cry Like a Man, D. William: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Don Talk: It says throughout their young throughout their young lives boys are taught to withstand the strain of holding in their tears Suppressing them until it hurts eventually they grow into men who fear appearing vulnerable a fate no self-respecting man can live with Hmm. So when it when do you first remember or recollect here and be strong? Don't cry. Don't don't show your emotions D. William: Mmm, right. Absolutely. Man, can, we can go back way back to, you know what? I'm gonna share this. I'm gonna share this, man. So when I was, ⁓ I would say 13, I remember when I was 13, I played baseball and wasn't the best player on the team, but you know, know, DJ G, even the first baseman, know, DJ is my brother, right? He's my older brother, definitely an athlete, right? But you know, that's my older brother who doesn't wanna be, you know, like their older brother. Don Talk: . D. William: Right? So I've also played baseball and it was at one point, the first time that I got up to bat, I struck out and I was just, I was disappointed in myself and I cried. And all I remember is my dad coming to me through the stands and saying, don't you cry. You ain't supposed to cry. Man, don't cry. That was the first time that I actually felt That's the first time that I actually heard that phrase, like, men don't cry. And what did I do? I sucked it up. It was hard. didn't stop crying immediately, you know? ⁓ But I sucked it up and I stopped crying. And from then on, I remember that moment. I mean, like it was, like I'm speaking to you right now, And it was. Don Talk: there. D. William: At that time it was still hurting but you know, I kind of realized that okay, my dad was right. Let me stop crying and I did that. Don Talk: Yeah, that's crazy. You know what pops to mind? Like, I had a different story, but what popped in my mind as soon as you was talking about that is, and I know you've experienced this too, you remember getting whoopings and then your parents saying, you better stop crying, but you beat me. What you talking about? D. William: Okay. ⁓ all of day, yeah. ⁓ Right. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ man. I didn't understand that Don Talk: Like, so, like, right, like, so even then, as you're getting disciplined to the point where you're forced to cry, you're being told not to cry, like, what does that do to you psychologically? It tells you, in the deepest, darkest, painful moments, you gotta hold it in, you know? And then, and growing up in the mean streets of Inglewood that we grew up in. D. William: You gotta hold it in right. Hey, man. Hey, man, that's a whole nother. That's no other conversation. Yeah. Don Talk: Those that know us was gonna laugh at that, but. But like growing up in, no, no, that's a whole other episode. Our streets weren't that mean. We grew up in, I grew up in Inglewood, you in LA, but like they weren't that mean, but they were enough, I'll it that way. But growing up in Inglewood, we were taught, like don't be no punk. And the punk was showing emotions. D. William: Yeah, yeah, don't tell... Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Don Talk: So emotional, like emotions to the point of crying, being afraid, being vulnerable, those things like were emotional characteristics or traits that you were bred to not show. D. William: Mm-hmm. Right, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we, like you said, growing up in the mean street, well, you were in Inglewood I was in LA, which is literally right across the street from each other. Right, and I was gonna say, don't tell Sean that, you know, because it was mean to him. ⁓ You're right, man. How we grew up, it was just the way of life, right? We weren't supposed to cry. And who said that? And I'm sorry, about to quote Training Day. Don Talk: Right across the street. Yeah. D. William: is all about smiles and cries. You know what I mean? It's smiles and cries. And it was so many times that we wanted to, but it wasn't the right time. Whether we were on the streets, hell man, whether we was in our own house. Don Talk: Yeah, smiles and cries. Mm-hmm, because as it was your own, not only your parents, your siblings telling you not to cry, you better suck that up. D. William: You know what saying? It was... Your siblings, exactly, exactly. after, right, absolutely, but after years and years of holding that in, what happens? Don Talk: Do you, yeah, like you realize you've been married for how long now? D. William: I mean this... I've been married for almost 16 years. I know I was like there's a few years. Hey, my ⁓ stock just went up, baby. Don Talk: Good lord, congrats on that my brother, congrats. Yeah, let's go. Yeah. How many times have you cried in front of your wife? D. William: ⁓ man, I wouldn't have married my wife if I couldn't cry in front of her. So I... Don Talk: Right, okay. you grew up, and that's what I'm trying to ask, at what point in time did you grow out of this, I can't show my emotions around her? D. William: when I first did it and I couldn't control it, right? Cause at some point you're gonna break. If you have, you're gonna break. And when I realized that it was okay, when I realized that I was safe with her, you know what I'm saying? Then it became more of a... Don Talk: you D. William: Like, okay, I'm okay. I mean, it's not like, you know, I cry, you know, during, I mean, yeah, I'm sorry, man. I did cry during Aladdin. It was, I'm sorry. Put that up there. You know, the children's music was kind of, you know, it got to the heart. I mean, but what I'm trying to say is that once I realized that I was safe and once I realized that she was, she didn't put me down, right? Once I realized that she was, She was, she had my back. then crying in front of her wasn't even a big deal. Now, honestly, I don't cry all the time in front of her because I still have that, I still have it on me. Right? I still have that, men don't cry. It doesn't go away. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. You know, do you realize, and you probably realize this now, but it's still hard to break it, crying in front of your partner, your female partner, to her, is the most sexiest thing you could ever do. Boy, boy, boy. Where she at? Man, because it tells. D. William: I never knew that. You just taught me something just now. Just now you just taught me something. Let me start crying. Where's she at? Where's she at? Don Talk: a woman that you're in tune with your emotions and you're safe around her enough to show them and express them. And to a real woman, that is the most sexiest thing that you could ever do in front of them. D. William: Mm-hmm. So let me tell you something, these are for the gentleman that's watching it, right? Because I'm a guy and I like to kind of see both sides, right? So to the guys, some of the guys are like, man, these punks, man, they talking about crying in front of their girls. You know what saying? But there are, there are dudes out there that be like, man, I ain't crying, man, these punks, they don't know. Like what do you say to these gentlemen that kind of have that mindset? Don Talk: day. Yeah, no, 100%. I say like they gotta break the societal standard. that's the thing, somewhere along the line, society had told us that's what it's meant to be a man, to hold your emotions. But it kills you, like from a health standpoint. If you're holding in all this anger, this resentment, this pain without releasing it, it is attacking your body and killing you slowly. Men, black men or men period die at an earlier age than women. And one of those things is because we hold and harbor in the emotions when they're meant to be released. ⁓ D. William: Absolutely. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Don Talk: So think we have to create comfort in knowing that it's okay to express those. I remember, I'll go back to two things. I'll go back to the first time I ever almost cried in a movie. Boys to Men. Not Boys to Men. Boys in the Hood. Boys in the Hood. Wonder why. Ricky! Man, that movie was filmed right down the street. D. William: Right, right. Don Talk: I'm a student athlete trying to get a track scholarship. Got a 710 on my SAT. that hit everybody. I'm trying to do good. And I don't say everybody, but a lot of people around me were in troubled lifestyles and I could have easily got caught up in that, but those are your boys. Like they protected you from really getting into it. But D. William: Mm-hmm. Yeah, after that. Mm-hmm. Don Talk: We was all together, you know? And when that happened, it was like, man, I hit home. But I was in the movie theater like, but I like, don't cry, don't show no emotions. Like, I saw me and Ricky, you So I was like, I held it in. Like I purposely, like, that in. ⁓ So that's, it started then, but we was ingrained in that message. And now, D. William: Yeah. Yeah. Don Talk: I remember the first time I cried in front of my ex, my ex, you know, is my current ex, yes. So I was in a relationship for ⁓ close to four years, was engaged, and ⁓ that ended in October of 2025. So, ⁓ and we'll talk about that in another episode, I'm pretty sure we will. ⁓ But we were friends before we became... D. William: Your current age. Okay, okay. Yeah. Don Talk: before we started dating. But she, the first time I could remember her seeing me cry was when my mom passed. You know, we was a group of friends. We was all hanging out, kicking it, playing, a game night. It like six of us, we just a game night, you know, having fun. And, you know, I got a phone call from my daughter saying, need to call your brother. You know, I'm like, okay, something's up. I call him to tell me, you know, my mom passed and... She, you know, she's, she was unresponsive. She, they found her not breathing. It was unresponsive that they were trying to resuscitate her for the past 20 minutes. And I'm just like, so I had to go out. I took the phone call in my room, came out, like kind of people saw this, you know, the friends I was there saw this blank look on my face. That's like what happened. And I told everybody and they was like, Oh, like it was a soul-crushing time. ⁓ so they, everyone got up, not disrespectfully, they was just like, they got up and left. They knew me and Jay had a thing at that point in time. So everybody left, Jay stayed around. And then like probably 10 minutes later or so I got the call back saying that she's gone. And that broke me. That broke me. That was the first time I remember crying in front of her. D. William: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Don Talk: ⁓ but you know, she, she helped me break into this like emotional phase that I'm going through of like releasing it because that stuff really, you're going to explode. That's the thing. If you're harboring all this pain and resentment, it can only stay inside you for so long before it erupts and it erupts in men in different ways through depression. And you get to a point where. D. William: so long. Don Talk: the male suicide rate is higher, it's the highest out of any gender. So because we harbor these feelings, so you're gonna erupt in a position where you're gonna fight, you're gonna explode on somebody else, or you're gonna explode on yourself. So it's like getting it out is the healthiest thing you could do for yourself and others. D. William: Yeah. But when you call that an accept, that's acceptable, right? There are, for men, are acceptable times to cry, right? When your mom passed, that's acceptable, right? Don Talk: Yeah, but not everybody thinks it's acceptable. I remember listening to Matt Barnes, the former NBA player. When he experienced death, he did not cry. When family members and friends that were close enough to him passed away, he did not cry because it was ingrained in him not to show emotions. And he's probably the same age. But I'm not saying I'm right, but like... D. William: Mm-hmm. True. But that's... Don Talk: It's acceptable, should be, but then there's a group of men that still can't get there because it's so ingrained in them that I can't go there, that I gotta be tough, I gotta be strong for everybody else. And that's the thing. So we're strong and tough for everybody else. Who's being strong and tough for us? D. William: Okay, right, right. Nobody. Don Talk: we are the brothers. That's why we're doing this right here right now. right. Yeah, but because everybody's not there. D. William: Okay, I was gonna say, man, we can go biblically, but we don't have to go that route. But what I'm saying is, everybody's out there, but I would say this, that's the cross that we bear, you know I'm saying, of being men. You know what saying? We don't have that luxury, you know I'm saying, to take a break. We don't have that luxury. Don Talk: But I think we do with each other, but we don't, somebody has to put a curtain back to allow it. And if you got a bunch of macho men that know they have a lot of built up anxiety, built up anger, built up pain, built up emotions, but nobody wants to open that door to allow you to express it, it's gonna stay in. D. William: Mm-hmm Don Talk: Like if ⁓ we don't get nothing out of this is men finding other men to be ⁓ emotionally intelligent around. D. William: Everybody's not dons, man. That's not gonna happen. But I know that's the hope. That's the hope because there are very few men that will say, yo man, let me hear you. You know what I'm saying? We are lucky enough that we grew up around each other, that we can say, that we can do that and we're not gonna be judgmental towards one another. Don Talk: Hey, hey, but that's the hope. D. William: You know what saying? Don Talk: And that's a fear for other people, like being judged by your peers because you express some emotions. D. William: then you need to choose different types of friends, dawg. You know what I'm saying? mean, that... Don Talk: That's true. Okay, so that's a good transition point because, where did this all, it didn't start with our parents. So where did it start? like, there's an author, Bell Brooks, who talks about how black men ⁓ didn't define strength by accident. They didn't do it by accident. It came through slavery, racism, and survival. Showing emotion wasn't safe. D. William: No, absolutely not. Don Talk: So like, when we were taken from our homeland and you was brought into this, our ancestors brought to the states, you showed any emotion, you were whipped or killed. So like, this is rooted in deeper than we wanna realize. like, so you had to control, so control became that strength, right? So that's the key. Control became your strength. D. William: So here's my question. I'm about to kind of call you out a little bit, Now, Bellbrooks, female, right? Don Talk: ⁓ Mm-hmm. D. William: White female. My wife even was he Hispanic? Don Talk: Lights getting black. She's black, she's black. D. William: ⁓ she likes it? Okay, then I'm tripping. I'm trying to look at it right now. B-E-L-L-B-R-O-O-K-S, Bellbrooks. Don Talk: Now look her up. Bill, sorry. Bell Hooks, if I mispronounced that, Bell Hooks. Bell Hooks, my bad. H-O-O-K-S, my bad. Now we caught that. This is... D. William: Oh, okay. right. Okay, that's different. I was like, I'm looking at Bill Brooks. I'm like, who the heck is Bill Brooks? Bill who? Okay. All right. I'm glad we caught. I'm glad we caught. Oh, there she is right there. All right. But all right. All right. Because I was gonna say something like, man. Don Talk: Bell Hooks. My bad. If I said Brooks, that's on me. That's my bad. Bell Hooks. Yeah, Bell Hooks. D. William: Yeah, bell hooks. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well I'll stop there because I seen her. I'm like, okay. Yeah. All right. But yeah. Don Talk: Okay, you're like, who this mother fucker talking about? So she talks about that's where it's come from. So then we call it cool to stay to today and it was really our armor. It wasn't about being heard. It was about keeping your dignity in the world, trying to break you. That's what like slavery was trying to do. That's trying to break you to obey. The problem is, what protected us black men then could hurt us now because survival's... D. William: Right? Don Talk: strength doesn't always translate into emotional health. And that's what we want, people to be healthy. So, like, do you think the idea of, was created to protect us, control us, or prepare us? So if you think about those, what we talked about, where our ancestors was brought over here, and any emotion they showed, they were either whipped, killed, period. Like, so when we were brought into this land, if you showed emotions, you were whipped or killed. Whipped, beat, yeah, showed the wrong emotion, correct. If it wasn't like, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, I got you, you know, it was wrong. So from back then, we were taught that carried on. So those original ancestors that were slaves were... D. William: She's on the wrong emotion. The wrong emotion, okay. Don Talk: experience that they taught their kids don't show no emotions boy don't show the wrong emotions you be tough you be tough don't let them see you struggle don't let them see you ⁓ pain you know because it was a system of control like right that's what that's what that's what bell bell hooks that's what bell hooks are saying D. William: There you go, don't shoot it right. Yeah. Why? Why though? Why? All right, okay, belt, belt, belt. You know what? Bell Hooks, definitely respectful, right? But Bell Hooks is not a man. Bell Hooks is not a black man, right? So she's only, I mean, I'm sure she did research. I'm not knocking that out. I'm not saying what she said was wrong, but what I'm saying in addition to, right? In addition to. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: This can also helps us, can also help men, right, to control, because we need to know when and where it is acceptable to express how we feel. Don Talk: And that is the question, do you think this idea was created to protect us, control us, or prepare us? It could be all three, as you said, situational. D. William: I think, you know, it was more to... allow us to remain in control of our current situation. You know what I'm Because once we show, you know, the crying thing kind of, it's okay, but it also, it doesn't really allow us to remain in control of who we are in that present moment. You know what I'm saying? So when we, when we just, I mean, crying is fine. Don't get me wrong, crying is fine. But I believe that that situation, I mean, what Bill Hooks is trying to say is, well, I'm not saying what she's trying to say. got to kind of say, well, it's that damn rum talking now. Pretty much, I believe it was there to protect us. It was there to protect us. It was also there to prepare us because one, to this day, whether it's... Don Talk: Yeah. D. William: whether it's crying, whether it's smiling, whether it's being sad, whether whatever emotion is important for us to understand that we need to learn how to manage our emotions and to bring them out when necessary. Because when we start crying at the wrong time, people are not gonna take this. If I start crying right now, and I can do it, I just think of something sad, right? If I start crying right now, Don Talk: Mm-hmm. do it. I challenge you to do it. Wait till, wait till, wait till wife comes home to do it. Get her on camera and do it. D. William: If I start to do that, if I start to do that, then automatically, automatically to some, mind you, women, it depends on, well, the women that I care about, I don't give a crap how they feel about me as far as when I'm crying now. You know what I'm saying? But it's mostly the men who will start getting on us. Don Talk: Why do we care? D. William: Man, because it's the alpha male thing. It's the alpha male thing. Who's the alpha male? Who's the gorilla? Don Talk: Literally, literally. And I think, right, why is that? Why do we care about someone commenting on this that we've never met? D. William: Hmm because we want to be liked, because we want to... ⁓ That's the way I'm looking for it. We want to be like, and we want to matter. Don Talk: We're going to matter to the people that matter most. D. William: That's our family. That's about it. Don Talk: Well, somebody out there is yearning to hear what we're talking about. And there's going to be a large sector of people that are going to call us bitches. They're going to call us punks. They're going to... Somebody will. Somebody will. Hey, you what they're going to say? D. William: They ain't gonna say it to my face though, guarantee it. They can try and they gonna say it. They gonna say it over the chat. You know what saying? And if they do, they're the biggest crier. If they do, who is that? Don Talk: You know what they're gonna say? They're gonna say, this lies here in the gang, do that. D. William: And you know what? You right. You right. You right. I ain't gonna do nothing, right? I'm not gonna do nothing. I'm not gonna do anything because I know the person who's saying that is the biggest punk. And okay, I don't like to use punk. It's the one who needs to cry the most. Excuse the punk. Excuse the punk. Don Talk: Yeah. So. most. There you go. That's a very word because they got the most built up anger, hurt and pain that is bringing them to lash out on others. Right? And they're the ones that need to release the emotions the most. The only way they know how to do it is to lash out on others. And that is fulfilling to them. D. William: Yes. Mm-hmm. It's the last, I don't know that. Now, I want to be clear. What we're talking about, we're not talking about just someone who just say, ah, I just got to cry because of the sad movie. I want to cry because somebody stepped on my jade. We're not talking about that, right? You know what saying? What we're talking about is when you want to and you don't, that's what we're talking about. Don Talk: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Jimmy Velvano said, I don't know if you know who he is, ⁓ NC State basketball coach, died of cancer. ⁓ He said, everyone, not including me, he says everyone should laugh, think, and have their emotions move to tears every day to live a meaningful and full life. Like, that to live, and this is to keep, live every day for a full, meaningful life. Like, meaningful life. To laugh, think, and have your emotions move to tears, whether it's happiness or joy. We could cry because we're happy. That is okay, We could cry because we're sad. D. William: Yeah. Don Talk: because we lost a job and now I got to figure out how I'm going to take care of my family. That's a reason to cry. D. William: next Let me interject right there because ⁓ you kind of sparked something when you said that. Now, ⁓ my son, he's been doing safety patrol and safety patrol is pretty much, he's elementary school student, fifth grade. And safety patrol is the person, people who kind of guide the carpool or help the kids go into class and kind of, he leads them into wherever they need to go in the morning and at night. well, in after school, excuse me. Today, he found out that he wasn't picked to do safety patrol for this semester. Don Talk: Hmm. D. William: And when I was upstairs and I heard, why are you crying? Maximus, his name is Maximus. He said, why are you crying, Maximus? And I'm like, all right. was like, Lillian, his sister. But I'm like, Because I'm upstairs. I didn't know. I didn't know he was. Don Talk: Who said that? Uh-huh. And when you heard it, what type of tone did you hear then? Yeah. D. William: from Lillian, was more, she was like, she was curious. Like she was very, ⁓ very caring, very caring. Yeah, very caring. why you, not, why you cry? Let's go, let's go get them. Like nothing like that, but just like more, like I'm interested in like why you crying? So man, mom, we came down there. Like I'm running like, okay, my son crying right when he came home from school. Did he get suspended? He's in trouble. Like what's going on? Don Talk: Is it from a caring sister or very caring and curious sister? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. D. William: found out that he didn't get picked. It was a letter and he was crying. I'm sitting here like I'm looking at him. Tears coming down his eye because he worked hard for this. He did the first semester, but they didn't, everybody didn't get picked for the second semester. We're like, man, man, everybody, teachers love him. you know, everybody loves him from, what we know. ⁓ and I'm sitting here and I'm looking at them and I told them, I said, it's okay to cry, man. It's okay. Like, come on, man. It's okay. Right. I went to the refrigerator, got him a root beer. And I was like, I said, you want this? He was like, no, I don't want a root beer. I was like, all right, you know, put it back in the fridge. And I kind of explained to him, I was like, it's okay to be mad. This is exactly what I say to him. I said, it's okay to be mad. It's okay to be sad. You know, there are many times that, you know, we're going to experience things that's going to make us feel this way. Don Talk: There you go. D. William: And I let him know that me and mommy, we didn't get the jobs. But let me tell what I did, man. And I don't know if it was right or not. Mind you, I'm only a therapist from nine to five. But then I told him, I said, it's okay to sit in it, be sad. But tomorrow, tomorrow we gonna get back on it. Tomorrow we're gonna, Don Talk: My office hours are from... D. William: we're gonna see why this happened. Cause we don't know why it happened. We just know that some people got picked, some people didn't. And then I added to them, I said, I said the safety patrol, I'm trying to make them kind of, and this is what I'm doing. The safety patrol, you you was working for free, man. I said, you already got a job for people who paying you. Then I try to feel like I felt as if I needed to make him tough. I say, you got a job with, cause what he does, he's take people with trash cans out. They pay him five bucks to take them out, put them in there. That's his hustle. You know what saying? And I said the patrol was for free. I was like, they got you working for free. And I was like, you worth more than being free. Right? So now what did I do to do now? I'm trying to make him feel I'm trying to make him feel, you know, ⁓ as if he's worth something. So what do you think about that? I don't know if I did it right. I don't know if I did it wrong. Don Talk: I think that was the perfect, I mean like I said, we're not perfect, we're not, you know, we're just normal dudes. ⁓ I think that was the perfect thing. Experience the emotions of what you're going through right here, right now. Let it out. 100%, let it out. Experience it. Flow through the full emotions. But you know what? We're gonna rebound from this. We're gonna learn from it, we're gonna grow from it, we're gonna do better and do right. D. William: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Don Talk: I think that's right because you wanted him to experience the emotions. And I think that is, to me, experience it and live through it. Don't dwell in it. Don't stay in it. But experience it right here, right now. Yeah. I think that was key. think, sorry, go ahead. D. William: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, Experience it. Experience it. Okay. No, I was listening. ahead, man. Don Talk: No, think that's one of things that I don't think we get taught enough is Jason Wilson said, ⁓ as men, our kryptonite is the grinding lifestyle that keeps us working when we need to rest, fighting when we need to seek peace, and worrying when we need to pray. even as a child, as a kid, you didn't teach him to keep grinding, like, don't. D. William: Absolutely. Don Talk: don't experience this like, like, livin' Rest in it for this time period. But when you wake up in the morning, we gon', we gon' go after it. I think too, too, too often we're taught, we're taught to not even experience it for that short period of time. And I think that's the problem. It's like. D. William: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Don Talk: It don't have to last. We don't have to cry in front of everybody. We could cry by ourselves at home. Can we admit it to the right people? Do we need to admit it to the right people? No, but do we need to admit it to, I think it's good to talk to somebody about it. you don't gotta let nobody cry, crying is healthy. ⁓ So like, yeah. D. William: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. It's pain, it's pain leaving the body. That's why I say crying is pain leaving the body. Don Talk: Yes. D. William: You know, and I think that's what I tried to do with him. You know, I didn't, I kind of found myself trying to make him feel better with the root beer, right? You know, here you go, man, take a root beer. I probably shouldn't have did that, you know, go to drinking. But, but, man, they go through and stuff, but I found myself trying to make him feel better, but instead I should have just let him, Don Talk: Mm-hmm. It's gonna start with a little beer. And then it's gonna turn into... D. William: kind of experienced that, you know what saying? And so when he said no, it was a shock to me. like, cause he loves root beer. It's almost like saying, ⁓ it's almost like a kid saying no to candy. Like, ⁓ it must be something big if a kid gonna say no to candy. You know what saying? So he, mean, I mean, he ended up kind of being cool. I ended up buying him a, you'll see right here. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: you know, trying to make him feel better again. We're making our own watch. Right. I bought a little thing from Amazon to create your own watch and now he can kind of build his own watch. So I try my is like and I find myself trying to make him feel better instead of just letting him sit in that for a little bit and experience that emotion of like it was hurt. was anger, frustration. It was a lot of stuff. Don Talk: Okay. Yeah. So are you asking, did you offer, by you offering him the root beer, is that cutting off him experiencing emotions? Was that to get, was that to get him to stop crying? D. William: Absolutely it is. Yes, it was. It was to get him the fi- Don Talk: From now when you put it, when you put it that way, you're wrong, Daron. D. William: I know, but you know, I noticed, and that's what I'm saying. Yeah, people were like, oh, you're a therapist, but I don't get it right all the time. I don't get it right all the time. But when he said no, I didn't say, hey, come on, I don't do any of that. But when he said no, I got the root beer, I put it back in the refrigerator and I came back out. I mean, at first I hugged him. First I was just like, yeah, man, I got you, man, I got you. But when I came back out with the root beer, Don Talk: No, none of us do. Mm-hmm. D. William: And I, well, and then he said, no, I'm like, okay, dang, I'm doing this wrong. He should be experiencing this. Let him experience this. So I let him sit in it for a while. Cause it's okay. It's okay to sit in that anger, frustration. It's okay to sit in it for a little bit. But after a while, when I say a while, I mean, I'll give you 24 hours. Don Talk: Yeah. you D. William: Especially, especially, man, forget that. Not just men, adults. I give you 24 hours to feel what you're feeling and then get back to work. You know what I'm saying? Get back to your hustle. Don Talk: Yeah, to sit in that space. So think you gotta sit in it to, you gotta go through a period of time to understanding what's causing emotions and what are you gonna do with it to not necessarily not feel that again, but ⁓ to better it. Yeah, so I definitely, definitely feel that. All right, so. D. William: Absolutely. Absolutely. Don Talk: We talked about the history of this a little bit. what strengths, was strengths sometimes, sorry, was strengths something we were taught or something we were forced into? So I know I'm quoting Bell Hooks a lot, but our fathers taught us what they needed to survive, not necessarily what we needed to heal. D. William: You Don Talk: your thoughts on that. D. William: Okay, so give me that question again. Don Talk: So was strength something we were taught or something we were forced into? Our fathers taught us what they needed to survive, not necessarily what we needed to heal. Protection from. D. William: Mm-hmm. Protection. protection. protection we were not from protecting who whether it's Don Talk: So it's not protection from something. We were taught that to protect whom. D. William: We are protected, okay? Whether it's our little brothers, whether it's our sisters, whether it's our mother, whether it's, we are the protectors, you know? So we have to make sure that everybody is safe. That is our job. Especially for those who have fathers. You your dad always said, well, I'm not gonna be here all the time. So we were taught that we, Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: are the protectors. Have you seen the golden child, man? Do see that lady kind of kick butt? You know what saying? You probably never seen the golden child. All right, so recognize the lady, she was doing her thing. My point is, well, my dad taught us that we gotta protect our little brothers, we gotta protect our sisters. We men are protectors. That's our job. Don Talk: Yeah, remember to go to the shower. you Ha ha ha. D. William: You know saying? that's, believe that's what, well, I know that's what I was taught. It is my responsibility to protect as a man. Don Talk: So let's talk about this from a biblical scripture standpoint. D. William: ⁓ man, let me type in the Bible. I'm gonna mess with you, go ahead, go ahead. Don Talk: Alright. Who was a man after God's own heart? D. William: know it but I don't know it because I've been drinking. Okay, okay. Wait, wait, wait. it David? It was David, okay. I remember the rock. David. Don Talk: Come on, come on PK, come on PK. Come on, come on. Yes. ⁓ So did David ever cry? D. William: I can't say it. He did. Okay, okay. I'm not gonna say, that's why I say quiet, that I wasn't sure. Don Talk: Yes, the answer is yes. So that's one of the things that... That's one things that Jason Wilson preaches. He started the cave of Adelam because at some point in time, I believe it was David, that they went into hiding, necessarily hiding, went into a cave to reconcile and to grow and to feed off the 40 plus men at that point in time so they could grow stronger per se. So there's multiple scriptures. ⁓ where David himself cried, ⁓ if you look it up. So it's like if, from a scriptural standpoint, it's okay in those situations to cry, to release the emotions of whatever it is that you're going through and feeling, for like we talked about earlier, for that period of time. But it's, I don't know if I see that, I don't know if I see not crying or not showing emotions as protection of... others because we're actually in a relationship if we don't bring ourselves to tears around our significant other how are we protecting her? D. William: Who said we're not protected just because we're crying? Don Talk: I'm not, I'm just asking the question. Are we, we are protecting her 100 % by not showing emotion around her? D. William: We are, okay, let's protect physically. That's what I'm talking about. Like physically in real life, emotionally, we can't protect all that. We can't protect emotionally. Don Talk: But it's safety. Women, I'm not gonna speak for them, generally speaking, they wanna feel safe. So are you saying that women feel safe, 100 % safe around their partner who doesn't show any emotions to the point of crying? D. William: You gotta ask the woman, Don Talk: I think, ladies, comment below and let us know if you feel 100 % safe around a man, your significant other, boyfriend, partner, ⁓ husband, if he never showed emotion to the point of crying. D. William: Yeah. You sell me a man who don't cry, I sell you a man who beatin' girl. Don Talk: Exactly, that's what I'm saying. So do they feel safe? So I guess what's your definition of protection? What are we protecting? Because the women want to feel emotionally secure and safe just as much as they want to physical. D. William: You know I'm saying? No. Okay, see, you said you mostly secure. Now that's, and safe, that's something totally different from what a man will provide, right? A man is gonna be like, hell, you know, I'm gonna make you, I wanna make you feel emotionally safe. Man, you know, you put emotions and men together, it doesn't really rock. It don't really. Don Talk: and safe. So are we tapping into the male energy of a provider if we are not providing emotional security? D. William: Well, okay, you putting too much on us, man. All right? You putting too much on us. mean, women got their part too. Don Talk: Ha ha ha! Yeah, they're not here to talk. They're not here to talk and defend themselves. This is me and you talking. So me, I'm asking you, Don, therapist. D. William: Meh. Yeah Wait, wait, nine to five therapies. You gotta go to, that's a five o'clock. Okay. To five, you know, but. ⁓ Don Talk: 95 it is after five o'clock. Okay, my bad. It's after five. It's after five My bad, my bad. I forgot your office hours I forget. But that's something that I think, you know, lot of, we can only control what we can control. We can't control what a woman does. We can control how she sees us and how she interprets us. If she expresses what she... D. William: That's it. Absolutely. Wait, we can't control how she sees us. We can't. Let's go at it. ⁓ come on, I can do it. This one. There's no way we can control how anybody see us. I can't control how you see me, no matter what I say. Don Talk: Why not? You don't think so? D. William: No, man, because you probably see me in a certain way, but in real life, this is how I am. Don Talk: then you're never showing me your real self. So you're controlling that. D. William: No, that's just your interpretation of me. Don Talk: If I see you in a certain way and it's not really you, you're controlling how much of you you want me to see. D. William: Nah, man, that's just your interpretation. Just like the Bible, it's your interpretation. Everyone has their different interpretation because what I can tell you the same thing, and they did a study on this. I can tell you the same thing that I tell Sean, Don, right? I can tell them the same thing. And he may look at me totally different from what you see, but this is all based on your experiences in life on how you see me, because I can say, man, you stupid. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. D. William: But somebody be like, ⁓ man, he's just saying that's just a slang. But somebody else would be like, but that's love, right? So it all depends. I can't control how you see me. I can't control that. All I can do is be the best me I can. But it's up to you to ask for clarification. Don Talk: That's Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you on that one, but that's okay. I disagree with you on that. Can you control, can you control, can you control, can you control if from nine to five, can you control if your patients believe you're a good therapist or not? D. William: Right, be good. for me, go ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I can't control that. I can't control it. Okay, for me, let me let okay, let's test this right now. For me, how I see you. To me, you are a superstar. Don Talk: Okay. Bye. ⁓ Ugh. you D. William: To me, you're a man of distinction, right? You may not even see yourself that way. Don Talk: Okay. D. William: Right? Tim, okay, let's go even crazier. To me, you're a hypocrite. Now what? Exactly, right? Right? Exactly! Right? Okay. ⁓ Don Talk: Yeah Let me tell you something. Okay, but this goes back to what I said You think I'm a superstar and a man distinction because we have not talked enough For me to tell you what I've been through to the reason why I do not believe that I am that right now D. William: Yeah but that's how I see you. Don Talk: Yeah, but because I have not shown you who I am, I made a choice to only show you a certain part of me to give you that perception of who I am. D. William: And all you what you're doing is you're assuming that I got to hear the bad parts of you. And when I hear the bad parts, you you're not a man of distinction anymore. Don Talk: That's true. I am assuming that. D. William: Right. But this is based on what I, what, what I, the truth that I know about you. I don't care about the negative stuff, but most people, all of it, they all, they automatically assume that, okay, well, he don't know this about me. Everybody do some garbage stuff. Everybody do some stuff that they wish they can take back, but it doesn't negate the fact that you are a superstar and you have done things that are great. But what you're trying to do, you're trying to mix in your negative quality, the stuff that you did wrong or the stuff that you feel that you did wrong. And you're trying to mix that in. Well, man, I did this. So ain't no way I'm a superstar. I didn't do it this way. So ain't no way I'm a superstar. No, you still a superstar. Yeah, we did negative things. Yeah, we did things that we're not proud of, but it doesn't mean that you're not. A super star. Don Talk: Is it still five o'clock in Los Angeles? D. William: I ain't in LA man, I'm in North Carolina. ⁓ Don Talk: Hey, because that was some therapeutic talk right there. That hit home, because you're right. I look at the negative of what, you know, I could at one point thought I was up here, but I know I've done X, Y, and Z that has just chipped away and knocked me down to here. D. William: Mm-hmm. But to me, you're still up here. Don Talk: My dog, Madon, see, trying to cry right now because it's not manly. D. William: Now that's okay. I'm throw this question out there. Would two men cry in front of each other? ⁓ right? Don Talk: You And hug because they would you cry and kneel on each other's shoulder? D. William: Okay, we need to scratch this whole episode because you know we're going to do that. You know it. Don Talk: Why not? think that is healthy. I think I'm being serious, man. I think it is healthy. D. William: No, I you know what I think ⁓ God because Don Talk: Have you ever hugged DJ and cried? D. William: Absolutely not. I never had a reason to. I never had a reason to. Have you hugged any of your... Now, now, passing your mom, all of that, we get that. That is almost like, it's so many, it's certain things that's okay to cry in front of your brother. You know what saying? Don Talk: Okay, I'll take off. Yeah, I was about to say like, okay, we get that part. Anything else? But this is where I am a firm believer of what men need. If I am going through something and I'm talking to you as my friend and my brother. and my friend and my brother should have some form of empathy of what I'm going through. And as we're talking, it brings me to tears. And he's just like, come here. and he starts crying and I'm crying. D. William: that takes a special, that takes a dime. Don Talk: But I, you're right, I think that's what men need. D. William: I agree with you, but we don't have it. Well, some of us don't have it. Don Talk: But why, the question is, that's what I wanna break. I'm not saying everybody's gonna get there, but I think that's what we need. This is episode two for us. I've learned more about you in these two episodes than I've had in the past 30 years. And it's long overdue. I feel... D. William: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. ⁓ Don Talk: So here, let's get vulnerable. All right? I feel I cheated on my ex-fiance. D. William: Okay? Yes. Okay. Don Talk: If I had the right man around me to continue to pour into me the right things, keep my mind right, because we know each other's struggles, we know what's going on, would I have done that? But if I'm isolated with no one to talk to, no one to really open up to this level and talk to and confide in and help me out, hey brother, this is what I'm struggling with, this is what I'm going through, this is what I'm doing, blah, blah, blah. If I don't have that, you're at the wheel of your own mind. And we know that the mind, idle mind is devil's playground. So the more you fester on stuff and you don't have someone to talk to, I'm not talking about therapists, I'm talking about your boy, your homie, to talk to, to like, man, I'm struggling with this. Have you been there? What do you do? How do you stay away from this? How do you do this? Like, if you don't have that, you're, I feel like, I will say I did not have that. D. William: Yeah, got you. Don Talk: during that time, I didn't. But I feel like if I did, maybe I wouldn't have went down that road. D. William: You had it, you just didn't want to use it. Don Talk: I didn't... True. That's... You're 100 % right. I had it, didn't want to use it. And as we talked about earlier, why are we afraid to open up that door and talk and lean in to one another? D. William: because the more people know our vulnerabilities, they think that they're gonna use it against us. And yes, you still would have done it. Don Talk: You think so? If I had to, if I'm talking to my brothers, talking to them, we talking through it, you still think I would have done it? D. William: Yeah, because you already made a decision to do it. Yeah, I do. We don't, we don't, we will tell you don't do it. We don't tell you don't do it. Now I don't know how that situation went. We'll say, nah man, don't do it. We don't, we don't, brothers don't stop you from doing things. We just got your back when you need it. You feel me? Like man, because if I said, if I said something like, man, you shouldn't do that, that's not the way to go. Don Talk: I don't know. don't think I would have. I don't think I would have. D. William: because you already know, you're old enough to know that you shouldn't do that. You don't need me to tell you that you don't need to do that. Don Talk: But see, now I think you stopped short of helping me understand why. D. William: Understand why what? Don Talk: I shouldn't do it. You just saying don't do it, I'm gonna do it. No, but this is what we have to stop and sit here and think about. This is what we have to stop. If I truly care about you as a person, as a human being, as my brother. D. William: You a grown man. But you... Whoa, whoa, what the... Man, listen, listen. Okay. Mm-hmm. Don Talk: and you're informing me about something that you are contemplating that I feel could be detrimental in so many ways, I'm gonna say, Duran, I don't know about that, and this is why it's gonna cause this, you got to deal with this with percussion, you got to deal with this, you got to deal with this, and then we talk through the process, that's completely different than saying, ⁓ man, don't do that. D. William: We can talk through the process, but I'm not gonna tell you something that you already know. Why? Let me tell you this. know, you know, dog, you know it's wrong. You know it's wrong. Don Talk: Maybe I don't know because I've been fed, I'm being fed something. Do I? If I'm listening to rap music and music all the time and I'm just, I'm saying, no I didn't. Look, you are what you. D. William: No, no, don't don't flip that. Don't flip it. We don't. Don't flip it. We talked about this. We thought we just flipped it. No, we talked about the situation we talked about not we talked about infidelity. You know that Don Talk: You are what you feed yourself, correct? You feed yourself through five senses. D. William: Okay, are what you feed yourself, but you flipping it. I'm gonna let you know that right now. Okay. Don Talk: All right? So, that's what we here. I'm here to flip it. I'm here to make you think. So, if we are what we feed ourselves, and all I'm doing is listening to stuff that... says that's okay, watching stuff that says it's okay and the outcome is good. And I'm never talking to my brothers that have been married 26 years, or 16 years, I'm sorry. I'm not talking to him and expressing what's going on, but I'm looking at TV shows, I'm listening to music, I'm listening to that where infidelity is okay and it's praised, I'm gonna think it's okay and I'm gonna get praised. D. William: Okay. Okay, yeah. Man, says, man, come on, man. You got a master's degree from Purdue University. Don't give me that. You edit that out. But look, you are, we know, first of all, we the Don's, right? We know that our boys, I don't care if we, it could be some other boys. We know as boys, we know what's stupid and what's not. We know this. So don't give me that. You're smart. Let me finish. Hold on. Don Talk: Hey, don't be telling all my business. Come on, man. Sheesh. Sheesh. I don't, I'm gonna disagree with you. Okay? D. William: Well, let me finish, let me finish. All right, right. We know that infidelity is wrong. We know this, right? Okay, don't give me this. I'm talking to you, right? Because this is about you and me. We own here, not to some. If I had some other boys, first of all, I ain't gonna be cool with somebody who don't know infidelity is wrong. That's stupid. That's stupid. That's what it's called infidelity, man. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. To some. D. William: It's called infidelity. Now I'm not gonna tell you something like, look, look, look Don, I'm not gonna tell you, hey man, you sent you your girl is wrong. That ain't the way, that's not where I'm coming from. That's not the angle I'm coming from because you already know it's wrong. Don Talk: You So now, let's continue this conversation. You're supposed to be able to talk with your partner about anything, right? Is that a true statement or no? Okay. So you cheat, you reconcile, and she goes, did any of your boys tell you not to do it? D. William: True statement. I agree, yes. Okay? Okay. Don Talk: Did you talk to your boys about this? And I go, yeah, I talked to Doran about this. And he said, don't do it. Well, what else he say? He just said, don't do it. D. William: Yeah, right. Don Talk: What woman in your right mind is gonna be okay with you continuing to hang out with that dude? D. William: that he said don't do it? Don Talk: And that's it. Not why, not talking you do it. Because you know better. It's not like, don't do it. Like, not having a conversation. Man, do you love her? Yeah, I love her. Then why would you even think that? Why would you even go down that road or that thought process of thinking that that's a good idea to do that? Like, that's what I'm talking about. D. William: See, see, now, now, now, look, now you bring it, now, now. But see, we will go down that conversation because that's how we talk, right? I don't have to tell you, you first, okay, let me flip it. Cause I see what you're doing. No, no, no, let me say what you're doing. Let me say what you're of all, if your boy came back to me like, man, I'm thinking about having a... Don Talk: See, that's what I'm talking about. You said all you was gonna say is don't do it, because I know better. That's what you said. D. William: what's what I'm looking for. can't even think about helping me out. I'm thinking about cheating on my girl, right? Let's just say that one of our boys came between me and he'd been with his girl for seven years. They say seven years, right? Or whatever. Let's say three years, right? Man, I think about cheating on my girl, man, for three years. And I'm like, okay, man, dawg, you're telling me this for a reason. Cause I'm not, my boys ain't stupid. First of all. Don Talk: Yeah, they're coming to you to talk them out of it. That's why he's telling you. Yes, they're coming to you to talk, for you to talk them out of it. D. William: They're no, no, they're not coming at me. Okay, okay, okay. Let's say that. Okay, that ain't my job. My job is to talk them through it, not to talk them out of it. There's a difference because through the process of making an informed decision, because it'd probably be best if you just break up. Don Talk: through the process of not doing it. So you've never thought about cheating on your wife? D. William: Absolutely! Hell, she probably thought about cheating on me! Don Talk: So that's what saying. Everybody thinks about stuff they shouldn't do. if, yeah, so if the, yeah, correct. So if the thought process is continuing to, it's like a torture. If you just drip a water on your forehead and it's a continued drip, you're gonna be okay with it. But if over time, if that water, that drop keeps dripping, that turns into a form of torture. D. William: You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we think about it, but it doesn't mean that we do it. Yeah. Don Talk: to where it's unbearable to where you're gonna break. So if you are constantly seeing and putting things, if you are constantly thinking, let's just put about, think about everything else. If you're constantly thinking or having that thought to cheat and you never talk to anybody through the process of not cheating because... D. William: Mm-hmm. Don Talk: If you truly love this person, why would you do that? But if you don't love him, yeah, break up. If you don't talk through it, but earlier you just said, yeah, I'm gonna just tell you not to do it because you know better. That's not talking to somebody through it. So I'm trying to understand the conversation that you would have with somebody to go, because I'm going literal. Ain't that what we're here for? We're here to be literal. D. William: Okay, I get it. You're gonna literal on me. Okay, okay, Okay, you know what? okay, I'll, right, you're right. I said to talk, I said a bit more, you know, I said to kind of give you more explanation on what I mean by that, right? So absolutely, I will talk you through it. This let it be known that when you want to, first of all, there's not a lot of men who's gonna say to they boys, Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: Cause they want to keep they self to they self. Because even there are times that they feel that they boy to judge them, are being judgmental. You know what I'm saying? So a lot of men not gonna say, man, I'm thinking about things, know, cheating on my wife. Instead, most men are gonna say, man, I did something stupid. Right? Right? They already did it. They already did it. if a man, first of all, if a man come to you with your boy, Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: come to you and say, I think about cheating on my wife or cheating on my girl, they already did it. They already did it. Don Talk: Or, I could see that. Like I could also see the time where you're getting pressure from someone so much that you're like, damn, Daron, this chick just owned me. Like, I don't know what to do. It's so tempting. I don't know what to do. D. William: Mm-hmm. All right, I'm gonna take. Yeah, OK, you got you. man, get the heck out of here, man, whatever. I'm gonna say, I'll be the person to be like this. First of all, like I said, I'm proud to say, like I said, and my wife been together for 19 years. Definitely proud to say that, know, cause I look at it like the longer I'm with my wife, the better I look. I look good. I know it, my stock goes up with every year. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: You know what saying? That I whipped my wife, right? It ain't like we 16 again, man. You know what saying? We not 16 no more. We know better. You had your mama and your daddy there. So you know better. I had my mama or step-mama, but to me she was my mama and my daddy there. Don Talk: Mm-hmm. D. William: So we know better. You already know that you're doing something stupid before you even do it. So by the time you get to your boys, it ain't gonna be a serious conversation. It's gonna be one of those, yeah, man. Cause all your boys had that experience. Like man, shoot, yeah, man. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes I'm to go out, but I don't do it. Don Talk: And I think, I'm not gonna sit here and disagree. I think that. They're struggling with it because you see that you could get away with it and everything would be okay. D. William: Especially if you don't tell nobody. Don Talk: So you're trying to justify it by talking with your homeboy. so is your homeboy gonna justify it? Or is he gonna talk you through why you shouldn't do it? D. William: beyond. Absolutely. You gonna think your homeboy don't even understand. As soon as he say, nah man, you shouldn't do that, automatically you judging him. Automatically you judging him. Don Talk: I'm like, why not? Why not? She doing this, this, then this. ⁓ my wife ain't gonna know. D. William: I'm actually, okay. And this is, okay. Ooh, ooh, okay. All right. So I know it kind of, look, no scenario, but I will ask you this question and I'm asking multiple people this question. Don Talk: Do we need to have or do we need to talk through a scenario? D. William: If your wife or girl, whomever or your husband or your boyfriend, if they cheated on you, would you want to know? I think before you answer would you want to know if your partner cheated on you or not? Don Talk: That's second question I want you all to answer below. Would you want to know if your partner cheated on you? D. William: ⁓ yeah, because I got a whole scenario for both of them. OK. Don Talk: So here's the kicker. I didn't get caught. I couldn't live with myself. could take a look around the eye and hide the fact. D. William: Yeah, that's your demon to deal with. And the only reason why you wanna tell her is so you can feel better. Don Talk: Yeah, because I was sorrowful. 100 % I was sorrowful. But this is what I would want from a real friend. Straight up realness. This is what I want from a real friend. I'm struggling with things that I'm being tempted to do that I'm not sure is safe or not. So I need to talk to someone about this before I do something stupid that's going to derail everything I got going on. D. William: You know who to... Okay. Don Talk: So I will want my friend to talk me through everything that's going through my mind. Hey man, like, is this chick blah blah blah. Like, man, she putting so much pressure on me. Oh, let me show you this picture. Oh, blah blah blah. No, she wanna do this, this and this to me. blah blah. Like, well, why, what's the root cause of you wanting to do that? There's an issue there. What's the root cause to even want you to think about doing this? Is everything not okay? in your relationship. These are things I would want to talk to my boy about. Everything is not okay. We could talk to him. a coach, so what I've learned in coaching, personal coaching, not athletic coaching, personal career coaching, is you ask questions. D. William: What do you want to hear? Okay. Don Talk: to those individuals, they're gonna come up with the right answer themselves. So Michael, why would you wanna do that? Oh, well you know, oh girl, she talking about X, Y, she would do X, and Z, blah, blah, Your girl's not willing to do that? No, well why not? Have you asked her to do it? No, well then why not? If you ain't asked her to do it, then why would you even think about getting it from someone else? Damn, you're right. So like, what does it look like for you to ask your girl to do those things? Well, and then you just start, just, I'm talking through all the answers that I need to answer for myself, but I got my boy there to help me get through it. That's what we need. And we don't have enough of it. D. William: Yeah. I agree. Don Talk: You're not telling me what to do. You're asking questions. And if we boys, I'm going to sit in there and answer them logically and real. Damn. And the bottom line is, I'm not getting it from my partner. And did I ask her for those things? Did I express to her where I'm struggling and I want to do X, Y, and Z with you? That's step one. So if I didn't do that, then that's issue number one. So I wanna have a friend and a homie that's gonna help me talk through. Now you say, yeah, my wife partner, yeah, she does all that. Well then why you wanna do it? Man, I don't know, I just wanna do it. Well, man, then that's what I think about. do you need to be in a relationship? D. William: Right. Don Talk: Like if you've talked through the process and yeah, I've told her about it, she does it all. She does anything I want, when I want, how I want, blah, blah, blah, all sort of stuff. Okay, then what's the desire coming from you to want to do it with somebody else then? Well, man, I don't don't just, it's just, and he may answer, like I said, answer the question himself. She's just, we living together, bills are cheaper, blah, blah. Like, you know, the answer's gonna come out. What they like to do, like. There's ways of finding somebody that wants to be in an open relationship that you can still split the bills with and still do what you want to do. But if you're just sitting here, I'm going off what you're saying. But if you're just sitting here saying, oh man, don't do it. D. William: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Don Talk: You know, that's... What type of friend is that? Or is that a friend? Because now, you your significant other have reconciled and you're trying to figure out, like, she wants all these questions answered of why, why, blah, blah, you're talking to her, what did you talk to your boys about? Because now, she's asking you that question to see who your friends are. D. William: You make a point. You make a good point. Don Talk: and if she's going to be okay being around them moving forward. That's the key. And that's what a lot of dudes are like, realize she's asking these questions and say, if you talk to your friends about it before you did it and they didn't help you talk through the process of not doing it, then damn, should you continue to be around them? And should I ever put myself in a position to be around? D. William: Thank Cough Don Talk: That's what she's gonna be thinking. D. William: That's a lot of friend pressure, Your friends just going, your friends, okay, all your, ⁓ luckily you had like, yeah. Well, luckily, luckily you can say, hey, nah, man, I need a therapist. And then, hey, nah, I just need, I just need my boy. All right, I can kind of jump from, you know, back and forth, you know, but a lot of, a lot of brothers don't have that, right? A lot of brothers. Don Talk: What do they say? Show me your five closest friends and I'll show you your future. ⁓ you know what? That's what we need though. You're 100 % right, we don't have it. The question is why and how do we get it? D. William: Yeah. I think that's a perfect place to end. Don Talk: So let's think about that, people. Why don't we have the fellowship and conversations that we need from our brothers? And why are we afraid to take that step to open the door to have those conversations? Or why am I, when my friend comes to me about an issue, why am I afraid to talk him through the process to make sure he's making the right decision? D. William: Yeah. Absolutely. Don Talk: Those are the questions that we have and those are questions that we want to grow from. So with that said, we hope that our realness of just talking through stuff is helping you out. You can have these conversations and spark these with your partners, with your boys, with your homies to see if they're your real friends. Because we all need to hear the truth, but D. William: Absolutely. Don Talk: If we're asked the right questions, the truth will come out. We will speak the truth out our own mouth. D. William: I want to correct that, because you said they're your real friends. Now, sometimes people just don't know, right? You can't blame, you know, and they can be like your closest friends and they're trying and they're trying. So just because they don't say the right thing doesn't necessarily mean that they're, I mean, if they encourage you to do wrong, then you know, you don't need them around you. But just because they don't say the right thing all the time doesn't necessarily mean that they're the wrong friends. It just means that maybe you need to talk to someone else, right? Don Talk: Bye. I think, but say I also think ⁓ you're 100 % right. I think we throw that word friend around too loosely. I think that that's the other part. throw, have all your, all the people you call friends, have they been to your house? D. William: Loosely, absolutely, absolutely. No. You ain't been in my house. Don Talk: That's the number one standard. you ain't been to my house, you ain't really my friend. If I ain't your friend, motherfucker. You been to mine. D. William: Well you ain't been to my new year. Well, ⁓ true. So I'm your friend, but it doesn't mean that you're mine. Don Talk: It's all right. So that just means the turn is on me to now come make the effort to come in your house, which 100 % is right. So yes, last year you came to my pad multiple times from your city. You got on the plane, came up to kick it in Boston multiple times. I need to make that effort to come to you now. So you're a good friend to me. I ain't a good friend to you. D. William: Hey, what? Hey, we here. We here. We here. I like bosses. I love bosses. I love bosses. Hey, know, you were dumb, man. So we were, honestly, man, we were born into friendship. We were born into friendship, man. a lot of people aren't as lucky as we were. We are, you know what I'm saying? So it takes a lot to get to a certain point, you know, to where regardless of how long you haven't spoken to the person. Don Talk: Yeah. D. William: Right, it can bend years, you know, we can still, although we don't speak every day or hell, we can go two, three, 10 years and next time we speak to each other, it's like, yo, what's up, man? Like we never stop, you know what I'm saying? regardless of. Don Talk: Like we never stopped. Yeah. But we don't know nothing about one another. D. William: You know, no, no, no, we know everything about one another. We probably don't know our adulthood, but we know that little kid. We know that little kid inside. We know. Yeah, we know. Don Talk: you Yeah, you're right. through graduation we know it all. Through graduation of high school we know it all. D. William: We know that little, we know about the spoons, we know about the backyard and the basketball court, you know, in the backyard, you know, we know about that. And honestly, man, that's what really matters because those are the people you wanna talk to. You know, the people that's actually, I mean, and you got adult friends who are actually just as close, you know what saying? But the people that were there when you actually cried and when you was actually in pain. Don Talk: Yeah, right. D. William: Those are the people that you really wanna talk to, you know what I'm saying? But doesn't mean you can't gain new ones. Don Talk: Right, right, and on that note, hope you guys tune in next week where we're gonna talk about code switching. D. William: I just got a new position so I gotta COLD SWITCH NO MORE! Don Talk: Yeah. There we go. We heard of that black tax. So we're going to talk about that more. I met a friend that said, yeah, they're going to pay me. That went from a black law firm to a white law firm. And there was like, yeah, they're going to pay me for that black tax. And I was like, what is that? ⁓ you're going to pay me the money so I got to deal with why is your hair this way? Why are you dressed that way? Why are you this way? I'm like, ⁓ Okay, interesting. But that's next week. Until then, people, thank you for tuning in. We appreciate you listening. Comment below. We're just real. Some of it's scripted, some of it's not. We just real and talking and going with it. And we just hoping that our realness touches someone. So we'll holler at you. Until then, peace. D. William: Yeah. Yeah. Peace.