Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Marjorie Cole: Spiritual Warfare, Trauma Trigger, And Deliverance

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Marjorie Cole: Spiritual Warfare, Trauma Trigger, And Deliverance · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fiorazo.
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  Hi, friends.
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  Thanks so much for tuning in.
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  God bless you.
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  And we also thank you guys that have been finding us over on Rumble.
• 0:27
  Please continue to go over there and subscribe to the Rumble Channel Freedom Project media.
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  And also, I have a personal Rumble channel.
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  We try to put the podcast out in as many ways as we can get it out there.
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  Also, you can download the Freedom Project Media app on your iPhone.
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  So we are going to talk about spiritual warfare today.
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  And the guest today is Marjorie Cole.
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  She's an author and counselor and founder of Life Recovery Inc.
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  And she's been working with clients, couples, children for 25 years.
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  She's been saved for 52 years.
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  Her husband is Jerry, who pastors true light church and their neighbors, so to speak, in
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  Minnesota.
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  And they've been in full-time ministry for over 40 years.
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  They also have a podcast, a weekly podcast called Rescue Radio.
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  And it delves into God's love and our identity as his children.
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  There it is.
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  Rescue Radio.
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  We are on top of it.
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  Marjorie Cole, thank you so much for being on World View Matters.
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  Welcome.
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  Well, thank you for having me.
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  I really appreciate it.
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  Yeah, there's so much we could talk about you guys being in ministry that many decades.
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  I'm sure you've got a lot of insight and expertise and stories to share.
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  But just right off the top, just tell us a little bit about what led you, what brought
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  you to start life recovery.
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  Well, I had, it's a long story, of course.
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  But I, Lord, led me into psychology and I had, you know, gone into that field.
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  And of course, I was already a Christian.
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  And I started to work in the field of counseling and there was just a lot of resistance to being
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  a pastor's wife and looking at biblical elements of people's dilemmas.
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  And there was a little bit of an issue.
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  So I just decided to leave there and start life recovery, which is basically my own private
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  practice, you might say.
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  But in the process, I've really learned a lot of things from my people.
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  As a matter of fact, this last book, I've dedicated to the thousands of people that I've
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  actually counseled and learning their stories or generational histories.
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  And as I was learning, I mean, God is teaching me as I'm learning to ask them questions.
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  And then he said, now look at this, there's a lie behind this, there's a, there's a, there's
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  a generational history over here.
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  And so as I was just kind of following the Holy Spirit, he was just allowing me to speak
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  with people, learn from them.
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  And that's why I put the book together because it's just a, it's basic, but it's, it's absolutely
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  very founded in reality and truth, people's lives.
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  So decades into your practices counselor, as a counselor and working with people, it
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  says in your bio in 2000, you began working in the areas of spiritual healing, deliverance
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  and inner healing.
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  Now, so what's the difference between spiritual healing and inner healing for those that
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  are trying to understand definitions here?
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  Well, I think inner healing is probably a subset of spiritual healing because spiritual
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  healing encompasses body, soul and spirit.
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  But inner healing goes back into the memories it goes to the places where the person has
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  come into an agreement, been traumatized, set up, programmed.
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  We, we have to understand there's a whole lot more to this, this inner world than most
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  people realize as far as what they're experiencing and what they're suffering from.
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  And so my first thought was the Lord, you know, okay, I said to God, it says, okay,
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  if your word is true, then the verse, you shall know the truth and the truth was set
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  you free, becomes an equation.
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  And so I said, and I have hypothesis, I said, okay, if that's true, then behind every problem,
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  there must be a lie.
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  And so I began to use a experiment with and see if that was the truth and behind every
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  single problem for every single situation.
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  There was an agreement with a lie.
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  And then we, from there, it just kind of progressed as the Lord began to show me the connections
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  between how the lies affect their physical bodies, our relationships, how those of the
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  generational curses are worked into that.
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  And it was amazing, it's just wonderful actually to understand what people need to know in
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  art to be free.
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  It's wonderful.
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  There's so much, and we have such a limited time today, so much, I mean, the battle in
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  the mind and the spiritual side of things, the truth of the word of God and how powerful
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  God's word is, so much to incorporate in healing and counseling.
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  But I want to go over to your book, that's what attracted me to you, I saw this.
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  I don't remember, you were talking before the podcast, I don't remember who sent this
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  to me, but it's called spiritual warfare and how deliverance can change your life.
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  Friends, it is over on Amazon, Amazon.com, spiritual warfare and how deliverance can change
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  your life.
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  I mean, this is brand new practically, isn't it?
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  It just came out in June, right?
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  Correct.
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  The very last part of June.
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  Wow, so we can, we can almost say it's hot off the press is Marjorie, so one thing you
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  say before we dive into the book, I love this quote.
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  You said we are living in very serious times and wisdom from God is of the essence.
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  Talk to us a little bit more about that and how that relates to spiritual warfare, having
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  wisdom from God.
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  Well, everything is based on what we believe and the war between God and Satan is based
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  on whose report do we believe?
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  Do we believe what God says or what the enemy says?
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  So to have wisdom is to understand what God's word is wanting us to understand and to
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  know and how it works.
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  And I think that's part of the problem people do not get God.
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  They don't understand how this works and not that I'm presuming I understand everything
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  about God.
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  But I've always asked for wisdom and to connect the dots because if you don't connect,
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  you know, like say you have a piece of a puzzle and you think that's the whole story.
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  That's the whole picture and it's not.
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  Or this may be a thousand piece puzzle and you've got four pieces and I remember working
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  at Teen Challenge.
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  I kept saying, God, you're giving me another piece of the puzzle, but I've got so many
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  pieces.
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  I don't know what to do with them all.
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  So then he sent me off to write the first book, Taking the Devil to Court, which was my
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  first book and kind of putting these pieces together and then he said, and you know what
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  he says sometimes people will hand the pieces that don't belong to this puzzle and you'll
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  try to stuff it in there and make it work in your life.
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  So it's about wisdom.
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  It's about understanding.
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  It's about the giving people tools to understand and to understand the rules.
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  There are rules that run this internal war just like it's there's two wars.
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  There's the one outside that you talk about a lot and then there's the one that goes
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  on inside people's lives and that's the one that we we want to help people understand.
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  So good.
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  I'm glad you mentioned that.
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  Question actually because you talk about understanding the rules of spiritual warfare
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  that have not been discussed in other material written on spiritual warfare.
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  That's a pretty big statement because a lot has been written about spiritual warfare.
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  I mean, we know from the point of view, yeah, most believers that follow this podcast
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  and probably are connected with life recovery.
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  They understand that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but Satan and demonic
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  forces influence people.
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  He influences flesh and blood and then we have problems with those people that are in
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  our lives or whatever.
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  So talk to us about the rules of spiritual warfare, Marjorie.
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  Well, I usually start out counseling people by telling them a story and in the story,
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  I call it the paradigm of spiritual warfare.
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  But the first thing we need to know is that if you're going to do anything, play football,
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  you're going to, you know, what are you going to do?
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  You need to know the rules or you can't win the game, you can't play the game.
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  And so what I explained to them is there's one rule in the war between God and Satan.
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  It's not very complicated.
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  There's one rule and the rule is Romans 16, whom you yield yourself, servant to obey.
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  That's whose slave you become.
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  And we also have to understand in this war that we have a free will.
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  And so Satan has to abide by the fact that we have a free will, but he can work with
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  that because he sets up all kinds of temptations that bait us.
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  He's like a fisherman.
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  He's setting up the hook with things that we're hungry for and then he catches us on the
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  hook of the lie.
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  But so the, the war is really simply who's reported, you're going to believe, and with
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  human beings, we have a free will, we can go back and forth.
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  We can choose God and then we can, you know, opt to choose the lie.
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  And so that's why we need to understand that Satan does not have to tell the truth in
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  this.
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  He, he has to understand that we have a free will.
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  That's what he gets.
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  But we also have to know that we get to, God votes for us.
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  The devil votes against us.
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  And we break the tie by whose report we believe.
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  This is a battle, isn't it?
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  From the spiritual level, our spiritual dimension up into the natural manifesting and the natural
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  and I think there's so much naivete, even in the church, about this spiritual battle.
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  And so that's why what attracted me to your book, because it seemed to take a little different
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  angle on spiritual warfare, and that's why I'm asking you to explain some things.
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  And by the way, Marjorie, life recovery on the front page, it says, you assist believers
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  in identifying strongholds, specific lies, generational patterns, to bring freedom from
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  addictions, anxiety, depression, abusive relationships, sin, et cetera, and the recovery
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  of blessings in their lives.
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  So I'm assuming that you reach people everywhere and you can counsel online.
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  Is that correct?
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  You do video counseling too?
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  Absolutely.
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  Face time, Skype.
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  Yes.
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  We, we, and phone.
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  I used to have an office, but then I was in the cities in Minneapolis and then I decided
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  to drink COVID to move back home.
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  So it's working very well, you know.
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  So I'm glad you got out of Minneapolis.
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  How far are you from there now?
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  Yeah, about the time.
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  Just in time.
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  Yeah, just in time.
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  Oh, boy.
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  Yeah.
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  Boy, there's so much.
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  I maybe when we get off there, I'll ask you about the governor there in Minnesota.
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  We are living in two pretty blue states, dark, dark blue, and it's, and it's darkness physically,
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  but there's darkness spiritually too that's off the charts, off the charts in our country
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  in our day and age.
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  So I want to go back to mention just some of the topics in the book, Spiritual Warfare.
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  And by the way, did I mention the website, again, LifeRecovery.com.
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  Many of the topics, the, the war between God and Satan for the souls of mankind.
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  Most of us understand that.
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  We get that.
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  People that are unbelievers do not really fully understand that they're, they're demonic
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  forces after their soul.
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  When you talk about first person impersonators, interhealing, dissociative identity disorders,
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  but I wanted to ask you about impersonators.
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  What do you mean by that?
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  Well, you know, you, we, a minute ago, you talked about how is this book different and
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  we took, I have to tell you that, you know, there's a couple of things that really hinder
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  believers from being set free from the things that they're trying so hard to quit, trying
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  to quit what they can't stop.
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  That's the definition of an addiction.
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  And so we have to understand that there are, there are spiritual forces that actually
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  operate within us.
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  And if you look closely in the book of, for example, Romans were Paul is talking about,
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  I'm doing the things I don't want to do.
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  And he's already is in Romans 60 saved in Romans 70.
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  I'm still doing what I don't want to do.
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  And then he says in verse 27, 24, 20, he says, if I'm doing what I do not want to do,
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  it's not me doing it is the sin that dwells within me.
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  And we miss that.
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  We keep promoting a gospel of try harder, be good, you self help, get your act together,
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  you know, and all this stuff.
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  And that isn't even what Jesus said to do.
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  Jesus didn't say be good to get to heaven.
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  We all know that.
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  Jesus died in the cross and that's how we get to heaven.
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  We all know that.
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  But we're still promoting this idea of, I've got to be good to get to heaven, try harder.
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  And what these first person and person who does do is they're trying to help us be good.
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  Believe it or not, but they're detrimental.
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  They're setting us up.
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  For example, when you say something, in this goes back to believing lies, it goes back
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  to making agreements with those lies.
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  And so how does the devil trick us into getting us to believe a lie?
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  Well, first of all, he comes, he presents it to us as if it's our own thought.
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  You know, that's what a temperate does.
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  He puts that in your mind.
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  And then he begins to speak in the first person, I am, I'm stupid.
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  I am never going to make it.
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  I'm depressed.
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  What's wrong with me?
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  These kinds of conversations come into our minds.
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  They come out of our mouths and we have to stop and say, wait a minute, who said that?
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  Where are you from?
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  Are you from heaven or hell?
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  There's only two kingdoms.
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  Are you from the Holy Spirit?
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  Is this the Holy Spirit talking to me or is this me and me is not you exactly devils
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  into semantics.
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  But a me is a reflection of the I am, you are an I am made by the great I am.
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  So we're little I am.
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  So but when you're saying I am depressed, you're giving the spirit of depression, operating
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  privileges in your life because you've just agreed with him that you are depressed.
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  People don't see this as how tricky and treacherous and devious the devil is, but it really is
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  the truth.
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  Does that make sense?
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  Yes, it does.
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  It does.
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  And life and death are in the power of the tongue.
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  The more we repeat something, even if it's a lie, the more you repeat it, you tend to
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  start believing it.
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  And that's he's such a he's evil, but he's a he's a master counter fitter.
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  And he's great deceiver.
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  And I love what you just shared.
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  So the try harder gospels, you're talking about works righteousness, correct?
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  Yes, exactly.
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  And every other religion basically, you know, is that is that thing?
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  The woman I as I worked with people and as I went on with the Lord and talking learning,
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  he began to show me how the devil is counter fitted everything.
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  He's counter fitted.
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  He wants to be our savior.
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  He wants to bring solutions to our lives.
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  He wants to all this.
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  But he's also counter fitted the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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  Now, the gospel of Jesus Christ is very simple.
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  It's grace and good news, and you know, and you can't work to earn it.
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  It's a free gift.
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  And we all know that.
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  But nonetheless, Satan said to himself, I can't, I can't just let them have grace and good
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  news.
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  I have nothing to work with.
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  I have no leverage.
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  I have no way to make them afraid.
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  I have no way to control them.
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  So what happened when Jesus brought the, the grace and good news gospel, Satan drug the
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  old law back into it.
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  So now we have a mixture being presented as the gospel of Jesus Christ and people go away
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  from their churches, being anxious and confused.
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  Well, did I do it right?
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  Do I need to do more?
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  Did I need to do another this?
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  I need to read more of that and it's always I need to and where are I need to's from?
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  Jesus said by their fruit, you shall know them.
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  So when you reduce and I need to thought down to where it comes from, it creates stress
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  and fear anxiety.
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  And where are stress-fearing anxiety from?
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  They're from hell.
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  They're not from heaven.
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  Now, we have a problem.
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  Another problem is we have allowed the devil to create a third kingdom.
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  We have the, we have God's kingdom.
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  We have the devil's kingdom.
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  And then there's a third kingdom people think of, I don't know.
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  And so you throw all kinds of things like like a bad luck, fate, car accidents, aliens,
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  mental illness.
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  You throw all those things in that, that category of, I don't know, and Jesus, and then it
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  doesn't work.
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  You can't, it's like your computer.
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  You have to have an on switch, on switch, you can't have a third switch.
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  So when you're reducing down to take thought, every thought captive, you say, okay, where
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  are you from?
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  Is this going to, Jesus said by their fruits, you should know them.
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  So is this from heaven or hell?
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  Very simple, very simple.
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  Then you can immediately know that this is not from God.
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  And going back to the works gospel, it's always never enough.
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  It's always got to do more.
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  And that's perfection and performance and perfection and performance are really, Satan
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  knows we want to be good because we're creative by God to love goodness.
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  So he uses our desire for goodness to set us up to sin and then he throws yalt at us
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  and puts us on a torture rack of try harder to stop sinning or, you know, we've got to pay
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  for your sins somehow so that you can get back to being good.
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  This is all what we're taught, but this does not work.
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  So a lot of believers are very stuck in trying to get, you know, Jesus didn't say be good.
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  He never said it one time, not just this, but he said, no, he said, there's none good
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  but one and that's God.
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  So what did he say to do?
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  He said, follow me.
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  He said, I will perfect that was concerns you, Psalm 138, you follow me.
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  And so when we follow Jesus, but people, and what did he say to do?
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  He said, okay, preach the gospel, heal the sick, fensileppers raise the dead, cast out demons.
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  But is that really being done or a little, but not much?
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  And why isn't it big?
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  Because we're all still trying to be good enough to do it.
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  God made us good enough when you made us in his image.
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  We're made in the image of God.
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  And that's the other problem we're made when I tell the story of the paradigm of spiritual
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  warfare, the thing I say is there are two objectives in the war between God and Saint
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  for the souls of man.
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  One objective basically blow up the bridge that connects me with God on one end of the
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  bridge is God on the other end is me.
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  And so Saint is trying to corrupt my idea of who God is.
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  So God is not good all the time.
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  If he's not good all the time, he's not good at all.
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  And the second thing is to try to make me believe I am bad.
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  Because Saint is redefining us in the snake pit by our behavior.
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  God says, I know who you are because I know where you're from.
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  You're made in my image.
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  That's clear.
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  Saint says, Oh, now you're coming into the snake pit.
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  Now we're going to change the rule here.
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  It's going to be you're going to be redefined by your behavior.
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  So everyone down here is all thrown in this comparison, competitive, try harder, never
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  enough.
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  Be good.
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  It's going to be okay in school, in the street, in the courtroom, in the family, in the
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  church, all the same thing.
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  Everything's based on behavior instead of being.
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  If you know who you are, the daughter or son of the most I God, you would know that you
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  don't even want to sin.
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  And yes, you will sin.
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  Yes, because the devil still tricks us even after we're saved.
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  But the thing is we can, what does God say to do when you sin?
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  Does he say do penance?
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  No, what do you say, confess and repent?
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  Why did you say confess?
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  Because we have to confess the agreement we made with the lie, cancel it out and turn
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  around.
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  And that's how God heals us.
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  But that gospel is too simple.
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  The devil doesn't like that.
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  So he wants to make it hard.
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  Does that make sense?
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  Yes.
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  We complicate it.
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  And by the way, what you just shared, I think everyone in our viewing audience can relate
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  to some aspect of what you just shared.
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  Because we believe the lies that we see other people's examples trying to be good Christians.
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  But hey, we've got to take a very brief pause with Marjorie Cole.
• 20:01
  The book, Spiritual Warfare is on Amazon and the website liferecovery.com will be right
• 20:07
  back.
• 20:08
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• 20:30
  view matters, send our producer an email, world view matters at FPE, USA.org, or you can
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  go to our website, worldviewmatters.tv.
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  So Marjorie Cole's our guest today, the book, fascinating, Spiritual Warfare.
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  One thing I want to ask you next, Marjorie, and there it is, great cover too, trauma triggers
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  and switches.
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  That's some of what you write about these terms, trauma triggers.
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  I understand triggers and you can explain a little bit further.
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  Just go ahead and just share.
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  Well, when Satan wants to set us up, he has to program us to believe a lie.
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  He usually does, this one we're quite young, but inside of every, every trauma, every event
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  Satan uses, whether it's sexual abuse, physical abuse, abandonment, whatever it would be, he
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  sets up a set of trauma triggers so that if you should ever want to get away from that
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  trauma or be set free, he buries these triggers right inside the trauma.
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  So these things can be sights, sounds, smells, times of the year, anything that he uses
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  to bring back a familiar, bring you back to that memory.
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  So he keeps reprogramming people over and over unless you get to the, to the, to the switches
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  or the triggers.
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  But in the trauma, and one of the things I have to say, and this is one of the things that
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  really turned my counseling around is, Jesus said to me one day, Hoyspirth said, why don't
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  you let me counsel?
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  And I said, oh, yeah, that's a good idea.
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  And so from that point on, he began, the Hoyspirth just talks to me, it not in voices in my
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  head, but, but he says, okay, so Lord, you're the, you're the counselor, so you know where
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  this person has hurt.
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  So one of the things I do differently is I don't try to figure things out for people.
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  I do a generational history.
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  I don't always do that right away in the beginning.
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  But we like to see that because it shows the patterns.
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  But I will say, Lord Jesus, you love so and so, and he says, my sheep know my voice.
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  So I said, so they say, yes, and I said, okay, Lord, what do you, for example, let's
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  just say they come in with a deep bitterness or they come in with depression, whatever
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  it would be, you know, maybe it's an addiction, probably that's the simplest one.
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  So I said, Lord, take them back to the original place where they, where they made the agreement
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  with the spirit of fear of the spirit of addiction, take them back to the original place.
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  And this is so interesting because the Lord God takes them back to those places.
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  Sometimes they'll be blocked or blanked or they don't know.
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  And I'll just have to bind the spirit that's blocking them from going back to that trauma
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  where those triggers are kept.
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  So then they go back and now the Lord shows them.
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  And honestly, you would never find this in a, it's like a needle in a haystack for a
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  million years and they probably forgot about it themselves.
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  He brings them back to that memory and then we begin to look around in the memory.
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  We see the agreements that were made.
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  I'm scared.
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  I'm afraid I'm confused.
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  I don't know what to do.
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  I'm angry.
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  I'm helpless.
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  And then the devil gives you solutions to the problems like high, be quiet, run away,
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  be strong, disappear, whatever those things are.
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  And so when we go back, there will always be a connection between that depression or
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  that anxiety or that addiction and what was set up and what they agreed with in that
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  trauma.
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  It's amazing.
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  And once they see that, that's exactly what happens.
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  Then you know the truth and immediately they're set free.
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  And sometimes they're being held back by guilt.
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  I'm bad.
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  It's my fault, et cetera.
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  So once they know that you should know the truth or the truth or such, that's exactly
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  what happens.
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  Another important verse I can think that you probably share with a lot of people, Romans
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  8.1, there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because we
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  condemn ourselves, you know, and that was paid for on the cross, right?
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  We need to listen to the devil who condemns us and we think it's us.
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  That's how I would say it.
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  Okay.
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  Yeah.
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  And that brings me kind of off the path of spiritual warfare for a moment.
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  You revised your book, taking the devil to court.
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  I just love that title.
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  Can you give just an idea of that, taking the devil to court for those that might be
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  insured in your books?
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  Well, it was the first book I wrote and it was interesting when we were, I was writing
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  that book.
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  I usually wrote it midnight because I was busy at Teen Challenge all day long, right
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  in the middle of the night.
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  And so I said, what's the title of this book?
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  What's this going to be called?
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  And he just came to me, taking the devil to court.
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  So that first book is kind of a lot of the puzzle pieces for the first interviews I was
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  doing with a lot of people who came through Teen Challenge back in the day when I worked
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  there.
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  And I was a counselor for 100 students by the time I left there.
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  So that's, that was a busy day.
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  And when I first got there, we started, we started out a day with chapel and then we would,
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  people would be, you know, praying and then they'd be manifesting in demons would be needing
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  to be cast out.
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  And that's how we learned to cast out demons is by going to work and working with these
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  people who are into witchcraft and drugs and all kinds of things.
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  So it was very interesting.
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  And so that's kind of how we get started with, you know, there's, there's two point
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  part parts is it's called, really I should call this deliverance counseling, but deliverance
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  counseling has to be connected with inner healing.
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  Otherwise you will not have a complete package.
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  You have to set the people have to be get set free from the lies that they're believing.
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  And there is, that's one of the rules too.
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  We make agreements through how we subconscious agreements, passive agreements, implied consent.
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  We make agreements by speaking out words and vows.
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  And so people don't realize Satan is using that stuff against us.
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  We just don't think of it as that serious.
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  We have, he's the accuser, right?
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  He's the accuser.
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  He's the father of lies, the author of confusion and the great seaver.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Go ahead.
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  I was going to say, we've got the biosis to take, to take a captive, every thought, make
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  it subject to the obedience of Christ.
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  So that's, so not every thought you think you thought or thoughts you thought, some
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  of the thoughts you think you thought or thoughts and we want you to think you thought
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  so you can get you to think you thought them, so you'll accept them as your own.
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  This is how treacherous he is.
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  And so we have to stop and recognize those things, I, God wants us to know stuff, not just
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  think and feel.
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  Our soul is our old software, our spirit is our new software.
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  And in your new software, you can know stuff in your old software.
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  You can only think feel and, and be confused and be afraid.
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  So doubt, fear and confusion are running your old software, which is your soul, which
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  are from hell.
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  These are the counselors of hell.
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  So what are they going to give you?
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  Good directions on how to get to heaven?
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  No.
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  That's why Galatius Romans is walking the spirit and you'll not fulfill the less of the
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  flesh.
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  Hmm.
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  Wow.
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  I wish we had more time, Marjorie Cole, great subject and great, the book, spiritual warfare.
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  It's brand new friends.
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  It is on Amazon or again, you can connect with Marjorie at life recovery dot com.
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  I knew this would go by fast and there's so much more we could talk about.
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  But thank you for giving us a lot of great ideas on what's in there and what you can, how
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  many people you can help buy this new book and they can connect with you via, you know,
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  the website and ask about counseling, anything else.
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  God bless you, Marjorie.
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  Thanks.
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  Thank you.
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  Thank you.
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  All right, friends.
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  Great podcast.
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  Thank you so much for sharing.
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  You're the reason we're getting out there.
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  So praise God for that.
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  God bless you.
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  And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.