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Hellraiser · You Killed Clyde - A Horror Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to You Killed Clyde.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Frank, and today we're going to be discussing what happens when your stepmom is a total freak.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Folks, today we're talking about the 1987 British supernatural horror film Hellraiser, written and directed by Clive Barker.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: The film explores the story of a young woman named Kirstie who discovers her skinless, undead uncle in her family's attic and must bargain with terrifying leatherclad beings to send him back to hell.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I am not alone here, however.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: With me today is my lovely co-host, Andrew.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's up?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh hey, Frank.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, even though I'm a regularly featured co-host.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm good.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, we're we're summer's winding up.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very much looking forward to fall because of course with fall brings the horror movie bonanza of the next two months of just watching them.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I watch them nonstop anyway, but um just cozy up uh on on a nice evening, nice cold evening, and uh watching some horror movies.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what did you think of Hellraiser?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I actually so this is I watched for the second time for this podcast.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had seen it like some years ago.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I liked it a whole lot more on the second viewing.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that is.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always remember liking it.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just really appreciated this movie more in the second viewing, despite being filled with like quite a few scenes of not so good acting.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um the special effects, the plot, the I love that this is kind of like a cosmic horror film in some ways.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and not a slasher.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes people people might try and rope this in with a slasher a little bit, but it's not at all.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I really, really enjoyed it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I forgot how nutty the second, the like the last act of this movie got.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I really forgot about like how good it was.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I do think maybe the centibytes, like we're gonna talk about them quite a bit, but they really don't have a lot of screen time in this movie for how famous they are.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, especially like you know, Pinhead, who be who got the name lovingly as a result of this film, but really like they're not in it very long, and the way that she dispatches them isn't necessarily that good.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like she accidentally figured out four separate configurations and sent each of them individually back to hell within three minutes.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yes, she uh she very much just stumbles on the left, like beams them back into their the realm that they're from.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's I don't know if it's said in this movie, but I think the realm is called Leviathan.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: That is one of the configurations of the puzzle box.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the puzzle box has several different configurations, one of which is Leviathan, but I think you're correct in assuming that because another configuration opens up another portal to that other creature, which we'll talk about later.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because this sort of theme of the configurations is not explored in this film at all.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it needs to be.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it's just like, hey, this box summons these beings, yada yada.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: But in the new Hellraiser, like the remake, a lot of people I don't think really like that movie, but I really, really, really like it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they go into like they go more in depth about like each configuration and what that summons and what that does.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually felt like it was like kind of a cool, a cool part of that film.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've seen that one or not.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I watched it with you, yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh did you really?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we watched it in uh at your apartment, yeah.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I actually I liked it.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I and I from what I understand, I think it's the best one since number one.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is fantastic.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, unequivocally, like I I think it's like a just a fucking straight up great movie.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Three is a little wacky, but I still really like it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say the Hellraiser remake is better than part three.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And truth be told, I have not really watched any of the other Hellraisers outside of three in-depth at all.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a there's a bunch of straight to DVD ones.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's yeah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: But there's people that are like diehard fans of this franchise and like really like the way that I feel about Nightmare in Elm Street is the way people feel about all the films in this franchise, and that it's really, really beloved.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: However, beyond three, I'm not really super uh yeah, invested or interested.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean yeah, same here.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not familiar at all.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I kind of appreciate about this movie, and we'll talk a little bit about like Clive Barker's background, which I literally had no, like obviously I really like Clive Barker and I like a lot of Clive Barker's films.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just really had no idea like how much sex plays a role in his work.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you look at like as sex as a weapon in this movie, like you look at it from the perspective of Frank, Frank manipulates Julia, Julia in turn manipulates the men, and the Cinnabites in turn manipulate whomever's in their possession, all using the force of sex.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it just plays like a really critical role in the film.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I like it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of like manipulation in here, and a lot of like the lengths that people will go to in order to satisfy themselves, I think is an interesting play here, which I actually never thought of until I watched it this latest time.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you do the podcast and you're writing the script, you start to get like more like you know, you're researching, you start to get like far more invested in the film itself as as a as a like a body of work, as opposed to when you're just kind of like casually watching it and you're just kind of like flipping through your phone.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is like I like what you just said about the whole I like the whole theming around sex, desire, pleasure.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what this movie is really about.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um how this like evil woman, how far she will go to get this man back that she lusts over long after his disappearance.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's a lot to talk about here with regards to like not only sex, but like the limits of hedonism and depravity that people will go to to satisfy themselves.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I also think like with this one, there is I think like not only do we have like that horror element, the sex element, we have like really good set design, we have super good special effects.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the special effects are wonderful, which is kind of crazy because there is when Frank first starts to rebirth, yeah, like from like the organism into my favorite scene of the movie.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really funny because this movie came out prior to Nightmare in Elm Street part four, and in Nightmare and Elm Street Part Four, there is a really famous scene where like the dog peas and Freddy is kind of like restructured and rebirthed, and it's done through this like reverse camera work where his flesh begins to like grow and he begins to like recreate.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I I actually kind of found it interesting, and the only reason I bring that up is because it reminds me a lot of this film, and I'm just wondering how much influence was derived from this, just being uh kind of a special effects powerhouse in and of itself, which I didn't give it credit for as much on first watch.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel the same way about the special effects this time around.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole scene of Frank coming back to life is insane, it's so cool, and the reverse photography, the it's so moist and gross and gooey.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it is very gooey, that's definitely for sure.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, Frank is moist in every single scene of this movie.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's either sweating, he's rained on, or he's a corpse that has blood and guts on him.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of funny.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, the only thing, and I'll talk about this a bit later, is I don't like the switch between actors.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when Frank is in corpse form, it is a different actor who was chosen specifically because he has a very slight frame.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that makes sense, yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And but it looks nothing like Frank.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it took me out a little bit.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, obviously, like Julia wants Frank and she really wants to get fucked by Frank again because that was like some good lovin'.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like I just it took me out a little bit because it didn't resemble Sean Chapman, who plays Frank with skin on at all.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of like one of those things where I was like, uh, I didn't love that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I don't like the actor, but I didn't love how different he looked, I guess, is what I'll say.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's I I I didn't even realize.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't look like him, but I didn't realize I thought it was just makeup that was doing that work.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, let's uh let's go into um some background.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mostly read a few articles that quote Clive Barker himself in order to put together the story.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna tell you what those are.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So one is How We Made Hellraiser, interviews by Phil Hode, Shudders of Pleasure, The Story of Hellraiser by Nick Pinkerton, and how filmmaking frustrations yielded Clive Barker's Super Butchers in Hellraiser by Chris Vogels.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know if you know this, but Clive Barker was a gay hustler in the 1970s.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I know nothing really about Clive Barker, to be honest, other than the like some of the franchises he's taken part in.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Can you believe that?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I as a fan of Clive Barker, the fact that I he was a hustler is wild to me.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, and I think this is a really interesting thing.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if we're gonna talk about like sex as a weapon or a tool, he says, I met a lot of people, um, some you'll know and some you won't, publishers and captains of industry.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: The way they acted and the way I did, to be honest, was a source of inspiration later.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sex is the great leveler.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So he was like meeting all these like really high-profile, powerful men.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: But like when they're naked in bed with him, they're his equal.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he exercises some level of like control and power.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that, like, I mean, if you think about that, that plays a whole hell of a lot into like how Julia manifests and her character arc using sex as a tool in order to achieve, you know, whatever she's trying to do.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the reason I bring this up, obviously, is because Hellraiser does explore sex, BDSM, and the use of uh sex to gain power.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So prior to Hellraiser, Clive had produced two non-sync sound shorts, Salome and the Forbidden.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So these film experiments, nor his turn at theater or illustration had like garnered him much success.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it was in like 1984 where his collection of short stories, the Books of Blood, became widely successful and he became a successful writer.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so in 1986, a second entry into the Books of Blood, the Hellbound Heart, was published at 186 pages.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what this novella was initially about was it concerned an amoral sibarite.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had to look this up.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is a person obsessed with luxury, torn to shreds by interdimensional Cenovite demons after using a mystical puzzle box to access a plane of overwhelming sensory gratification.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we explore the Sibyrite persona a lot in this movie, but in the Hellraiser remake, they open up with this party of people, and those party of people have hustlers surrounding them.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that sort of like speaks a little bit more to the novella than this film does.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it is this novella that would form the basis for Hellraiser.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Clive very much had a film in mind when it was written.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So Clive Barker stated that he wanted to make the Hellbound Heart into a film because he wanted to prevent low-quality adaptations of his work being made by other people.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: He was very critical of two different adaptations of his previous works: 1985's Underworld and 1986 Rawhead Rex, which secretly I like, both directed by George Pavlu and wanted to prevent this from happening again.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So he essentially had a little plan in mind when he wrote The Hellbound Heart.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's kind of interesting because he he had other film, other works that he had written adapted into films, but he really never achieved success from those.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like the director gets notoriety.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: It really isn't until right now that we start to understand who this guy is and that he even exists.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: But from an interview with Barker and The Guardian, Barker says most English and American horror movies were not sexual, or coquettishly so.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: A bunch of teenagers having sex and then getting killed, which he mentioned earlier.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hellraiser, the story of a man driven to seek the ultimate sensual experience, has a much more twisted sense of sensuality.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And in 1986, Barker had enough of a name to secure Roger Corman's company New World, who agreed to fund the film for$900,000 and said very plainly to Barker that it would go straight to video.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's sad.
• 14:23
  unknown: I know.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's like that's like very oh, by the way, this is going right to video.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like no chance of a theoretical release, really.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's because like his I think with Barker, he had tried his hand at a lot of different creative endeavors, and like I said, hadn't achieved any like notoriety or success.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that New World said, we're gonna give you this opportunity, but it'll go straight to video.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that really was something upsetting to Clive Barker.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think he thought, okay, this is a stepping stone into me making my own film.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we see this is the turning point between him as an author to like an introduction of like the rest of his career.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that this movie is so weird is wild.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: This movie, so this movie did go straight to video?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-mm.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it oh, so he oh, okay.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: The inception, like the original purpose, the original purpose is just to like get it to video, but as he started making it, they realized there was potential for it, and then they released it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool, okay.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to talk a little bit about the Cenobites, even though, like we said, they they don't appear in this movie for very long, but they definitely do have like obviously a pretty palpable presence because I mean Pinhead is like a huge cultural horror icon, and the Cenobites are like widely known throughout like horror canon, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Since so let's give them a second.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they even like they even get an appearance in uh Cavern of the Woods.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, they do! Yeah, yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cav in the Woods is a bunch of awesome references, but in Cavern of the Woods, uh that one of the things they could have done to trigger the scenario was a puzzle box.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, we see their take on a Cenobite who has got a saw blade through his head.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that's true.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that one Cenobyte.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Who's in yeah, that that's awesome.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they've completely entered Horror Cannon, even though, like I said, the first movie features them for like eight minutes.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's very, very short run time for these guys.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we're on August 31st for my gamer uh viewers or listeners out there.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, within the next month, we're gonna get a Hellraiser video game coming out, um, which is pretty wild in this day and age to all of a sudden get a full-fledged video game for that for this property.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um so pretty excited myself for that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Would you play it?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna buy it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a horror game.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's like it's like a survival horror, so I can't wait to play it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so with the Cenobites, so the original screenplay for Hellraiser featured one central Cenobite operating in the shadows, but was later adapted to include four super butchers, quote end quote.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Nothing springs into my imagination without having inspiration in other things I've seen or experienced.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: The centibytes were no exception.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Their design was influenced among other things by punk, by Catholicism, and by the visits I would take to SM clubs in New York and Amsterdam.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: On the SM sliding scale, I'm probably a six.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: There was an underground club called Cellblock 28 in New York that had a very hard SM night.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: No drink, no drugs.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: They played it very straight.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first time I ever saw people pierced for fun.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first time I saw blood spilt.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And on the design of the Cenobites, one of the designers, Jane Wildgoose, recounts the notes she'd taken from Barker.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: She says, My notes say that he wanted one Aries of revealed flesh where some kind of torture has or is occurring, and two, something associated with butchery involved.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then here we have a very clive turn of phrase.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've written down repulsive glamour.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so kind of interesting that the inception of these horror icons really does come from the BDSM scene, and the fact that they're like split open and torn in different ways literally comes from inspiration that he saw while kind of touring these clubs, which is kind of cool.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think the reason I bring this stuff up though is like it's not even so much about Hellraiser, it's like the fact that Clive Barker, again, was so inspired by sex and BDSM, and that this movie was a feature film featuring villains from that part of his imagination, I think is like really cool and subversive.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you think of the general public in the 1980s, like that really isn't a mainstream thing, and it still isn't now at all, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's very underground.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: But to bring that to the forefront, I think is like really, really cool.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, a little bit later, I'll tell you how it was received by that community.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a little surprising.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think this movie manages to be a feature-length film that is digestible by the common audience, I think the common horror-goer, um, without needing to go too far into such a niche sexual experience, but also conveys that sexual experience effectively.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, perfect.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no explicit sexuality in here.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the only the only scene that actually takes place of any like sort of sex is between Frank and Julia.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, her man.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: She gets dicked down, and she that is the impetus for this whole fucking movie, is how good that dick was.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I saw this really funny quote on Reddit.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's to the user colored undies, who says, Julia saw a skinless hell demon and said, I can fix him.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, girl, like girl, you are way outside your skill set.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought that was really funny.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, like, oh man, I have a lot to say.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot to say about it there.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but uh Julia and how like like yeah, I have so much to say about her character.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like how fucking lonely are you, Julia?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here's okay.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, no, no, let's let's say that's a good one.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I really, really want to get because there's gonna be a lot to say when we get to that part, but I think there's a lot of uh mayhem that will that will be unlocked.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk a little bit back about um directing with Clive Barker.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So again, directorial debut had never directed a film prior to this.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: He went to the library in Crouch End looking for a book on how to direct.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: They had one book, but unfortunately, it was out.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Barker was on his own.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So initially, New World basically left Barker and his crew to their own devices.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But as the six-month mark approached, they said, We're coming over.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: They came over, saw the production, seemed okay with it, and left.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Barker says, I didn't get bothered by them again until later on.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: They got us to relocate the story to America and overdub some of the accents, which I didn't feel great about because the original story had been so English.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, like.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk a little bit about this when we get more to like when they arrive at the house.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the weird things about this movie is that it's hard to place where it takes place.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Halfway through filming, they moved locations, essentially cultures, and accents.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's weird.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Clive Barker says that New World gave the film a wide release, and I got a really positive reaction from the SM crowd, and still do.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was validating a lifestyle.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was a celebration of the beauty of these strange secret rituals.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So despite having the location moved over to the States, New World saw the film as being potential for them to make some money.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then so they transferred it from home video over to a wide release.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: They said this thing needs a theater release, and that's what they did.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like that's uh like I think it's cool that he was given the chance to like make this movie, and then even from what he was doing, they what they saw, like, okay, this should probably go to theaters.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And also, is this not a symbol of like, dude, like build it and they will come?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even though he he could have been like, Oh, I don't want to do this because it's like a home release and that's like small fry for me, but he did it, he did the best possible work he could do, and boom, landed a feature release.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, incredible.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just wild.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: I guess, sorry, I guess it's wild to me that this guy shows up as like, hey, I want to direct this movie, and I've never directed a movie before.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, yeah, and they were like, and they were like, Yeah, you can do it, but it's gonna go straight to home video.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's that's like yeah, it was a small opportunity, but he ended up spinning it into something that for the rest of his career, like it set him up for like crazy amounts of success.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if if his directing would have changed at all if he had gotten a hold of that book.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, what book?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: He said he went to like oh the directorial debut book, yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can you imagine?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just so it's so wild to me.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like there's no he'd have no portfolio of having directed anything, even like a fun little skit with his friends or something.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, because the only two things that he worked on were those two short films aforementioned, but they they didn't go anywhere.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were they were, like you said, like very experimental, very small, but for some reason, almost to be honest with you, like similar to Curry Barker, you know, something really tiny was created, but obviously New World saw potential in not only this story, but in Clive Barker and said, we're going to green light this on a small scale, and through hard work, realize, like, yeah, we can actually release this on a larger scale.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what makes that even nuttier is the fact that, like, we talked about the fact that it deals with this overt BDSM culture, which is really, you know, faux pas in the 1980s, makes it all the more crazy that they would have said yes.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: There is a bunch of censorship stuff that happened to this film, which I'll talk about in a second.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: But barring that, I mean, it's a pretty, it's a pretty big swing to take on a small first-time director.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Andrew, let's talk a little bit about Doug Bradley, who does not get the same notoriety as Robert England, possibly for a reason, although in the later Hellraiser films, he is a central figure.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, not based on this one, but based on the subsequent eight films, he does become a little bit of like a character, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Especially part three.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: You should definitely watch part three because it is batshit fucking wild and crazy.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: But Doug Bradley, whose character has since become known as Pinhead, played this character in a total of eight Hellraiser films, has known Clive Barker and been a collaborator of his since their days at Quarry Bank High School.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: So he knew Clive since high school.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is crazy.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is who you know.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Also, and the world is just the world is small.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally, yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I just mean like you just it it just whether it's Hollywood, whether it's like your own personalized, like I found that recently.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not recently, I found that I just find reminders that all the time where it's like someone's dating someone who you know through this other person, and it's like, Jesus, this world is small.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's it's wild, dude.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Try being gay.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm kidding.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, no, no, no.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Try so Bradley is a bit of a Nepo friend.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So Bradley says, I've known Clyde since we did a play together at high school in Liverpool.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: He first mentioned in the fall of 1985 that he was putting together a low-budget British independent horror movie.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: According to Bradley, the makeup for Pinhead took around five to six hours to put on.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was in this makeup that the decisions about playing Pinhead were made.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I had a sense of power, of majesty, of a kind of beauty.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: His threat is implied.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Look what I did to myself.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine what I could do to you.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: He says that Barker gave him one note.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have no idea how amazing this looks on camera, but do less.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let the makeup and the character tell through being seen.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, unlike Freddy, Pinhead and the first Hellraiser is a much more subdued display of power.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Although I would argue in Nightmare N Street Part One, Freddy is a lot more subdued than we see in subsequent films.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but interesting.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Bradley's got a he's got his iconic deep voice speech that he uses for pinhead.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like his He really doesn't say much in this movie.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's very no, but it's iconic.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: His whole line, the box, you opened it.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: We came.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I also I wanted to talk a little bit about censorship.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: So Hellraiser was initially banned in Ontario by the Ontario Film and Video Review Board.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: By a three to two majority vote, the film was deemed not approved in its entirety as it contravenes community standards.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was banned because of its brutal graphic violence with bloodletting throughout, horror, degradation, and torture.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: In August 1987, Hellraiser was passed by the Ontario Film Review Board, but only after several cuts were made to the film.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: New World Mutual Pictures of Canada cut about 40 seconds to get the film passed with an R rating.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I bring up this Ontario specific episode, well, not only like are we on Ontario, but this was indicative of how the film had passed through to get its R rating.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it initially received an X rating.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they kept like punting it back and cutting more and more from those scenes.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: One specific uh instance is of a graphic sex scene between Julia and Frank.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: They reduced that scene and then were able to secure an R rating.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: But this film did go back and forth, I think five times before it was able to achieve an R rating and actually get released.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's kind of what happened, and that's that's kind of the story of how it came to be in game.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'd be like, I wonder how fun that would have been.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're working with your team on a movie, like, okay, I just sent this little, I sent this like draft or this demo to the to the ratings board.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully it gets through, gets sent back.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we'll skim this and this scene.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that'd be kind of fun to like to see what you get away with.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: It would be, but I think it results in a choppy edit.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not for Hellraiser, like not for this film, but in general, like you're shaving bits between other bits, and then you're re-sewing that together.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not going to get something that looks like flawless and cohesive.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get something that looks a little choppy.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: In this case, it doesn't, because that the only thing that they really had to like focus on were this the flashback sex scenes, which like those are very, very short, rare, and whatever.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think it like had a huge impact on the film.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I just think it's like the idea that that's what they had to do to get this movie made is like just kind of interesting.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to wrap here and just say, like, to hear Barker tell it, the popular success of Hellraiser wasn't so much a great leap forward, but a continuation and confirmation of the work he'd been up to in the obscure trenches of short films and theatrical productions.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: He says doing a low budget movie in a house in Cricklewood is the equivalent of the eight quid play.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'd go further.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Low budget movie making is fringe theater, except that you can actually get the audience numbers.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted us to get it's what fringe theater claims to be and so often isn't non-elitist populist.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I almost pulled this specifically because I think it's a beautiful rap on like his Hellraiser story, but I also think it speaks to what you were talking about about obsession.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like these low budget films where the director is able to almost unbothered create what is in their head and then garner these like huge numbers and these huge successes is interesting.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I like that fringe theater example, like that correlation, I think is really cool.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it just that's just I mean, it came out in the 80s, but we've had strings, we've had uh lots of movies since then.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where as opposed to being a big budget film that has a lot of studio interference, the directors kind of left for the most part to do their own thing and squeeze whatever creativity they can inside of that budget they're given.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes that can lead to some very, very cool.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: You find out some like cool behind-the-scenes stuff of how they did certain scenes because they were constrained, you know, the budget was only so and so.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I always like those kind of stories.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're really, really cool to see what people can do with what they're given in a passion project like this.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like the less you are able to play with, the more you start to identify areas where you need to be creative in order to achieve the desired result.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for$900,000, obviously$900,000 in 1986 is a lot different than$900,000 now.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I would give Kareem Barker even more kudos uh for that.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: But holy shit, what this guy was able to do with 900 grand for Hellraiser is absolutely amazing.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And just you're like, you just see, like I noted it a lot in this film.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not only are the special effects, they're the physical effects coming through on the actors or like the goop and the gore, but it was just the simple stuff, like the floorboards having their nails screwed out and coming apart, or like the walls separating.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just really cool the stuff they did to achieve like this otherworldly transformation of the set.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think like you said, like it doesn't take place in a lot of locations, and I think some of those locations very much look like a set, but I really liked that insular environment that this movie creates, particularly when she's in the hospital.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is like a nondescript, you know, quote unquote hospital, which is just like a one-room set, and what they do with the subway tile and the lighting conveys that there is, like you say, this cosmic element, and that's just lighting.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think think, yeah, they they really stretch it and did a great job.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew, how do you think Hellraiser was received?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna like uh B minus, C plus.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: What out of 10?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Speak my language.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh out of 10, I was gonna I guess six?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So on Rotten Tomatoes, it received a 6.8 out of 10.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: The website's consensus reads Elevated by writer-director Clive Barker's fiendishly unique vision, Hellraiser offers a disquieting and sadistically smart alternative to mindless gore.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: On Metacritic, the film was assigned a score of 56 out of 100, very close to what you just said, based on 17 critics indicating mixed or average reviews.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I personally would give this movie around an eight and a half out of 10.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: For me, when you think of like the greatest movies of all time, like if I have, I don't know about you, I have my top 10 favorite movies of all time, then I have my top 10 favorite horror movies of all time.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Hellraiser for me is like almost in there.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love this movie, I love re-watching this movie, and I think it's fucking rad.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really I would not put it that high, I don't think, but I no, but I in all seriousness, I think rewatching a second time has made me like really hold this movie in high regard.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like it's funny because it I think this movie gets away with some scenes that contain some some pretty like not so great acting.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're talking about Kirstie.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Kirstie, especially, is rough at certain parts of this movie, um, especially like her trying to pretend she's drunk was is oh my god, acting.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sorry to the actress, but that that that brutal that was ridiculous.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was like she was like, they were like, pretend to be drunk, and she's like, What does an eight-year-old look like who's learning to walk?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it didn't make any sense.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like nothing.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was so ridiculous.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that as a note, like an asterisk.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's just like some scenes, especially with Kirsty.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she she's great when she's screaming and running around.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, totally.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: But but there's some scenes where it just it gets away with it because it's there's a certain charm to the way this movie's filmed, I think.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would give this myself, I would put this on a seven for myself.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I really like this movie.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Fair.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: So as we mentioned, uh Hellraiser was made for 900 grand and earned a total of 14.6 million in the US and Canada, with a worldwide total of 30 million.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: So not the 500 million Obsession made, but 30 times its budget.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it was considered obviously hugely successful and spawned seven additional films.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I might what I might do for Halloween.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: I might do like um with Sharon, like uh a nightmare on Elm Street, like the entire series, and I might do the I might do this entire series either on my own or not.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know that there are people that love this series, but I started trying to watch what one of them's called like Hellworld, and I started to watch it, and I just had to exit stage left.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I'm good, and it was I think it was like really early 2000s, so it has that sheen to it, and I just had to leave.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I apologize to anyone who likes it, but I just did not like it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm gonna try and watch all of them and I'll get back to you.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: If I have to stop watching, then I'll give I'll give up.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what oh, you know what, dude?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll commit to this here.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll watch the first three.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'll watch number two and three.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is fucking awesome.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you talk about like Lovecraft and Lovecrafty and horror, it is all that.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it is the inverse of this movie.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this movie very much takes place on Earth.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: That movie very much 80% of it takes place in the universe of the puzzle box.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the set design is cool, crazy.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like uh the monsters are really, really they're just full of practical effects, really, really interesting.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Number three takes place on Earth, it's called Hell on Earth, and that's where they have like more centibytes.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I number three isn't neither here nor there, it's not not outstanding.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: But number two, I would say, is uh really, really, really cool and worth a watch for sure.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Andrew, are you ready to get into the bondage of it all?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, today Andrew and I are gonna break down this film scene by scene.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you haven't seen it, pause, take a break, and come back and join us.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, Andrew, we open with a puzzle box next to a drink, where a man is asked, What's your pleasure?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he replies, the box, while handing over a wad of cash.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: This man is Frank, played by an extremely handsome Sean Chapman.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Holy fuck, that guy's hot.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he has plans for this box, most notably a ritual of sorts.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: As he fumbles with the box in his hand, he opens it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: As he looks up, he notices light filtering into the I wrote into the abandoned warehouse he lives in.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: But this is indeed the attic room of the home that Larry and Julia eventually move into.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: He moves the puzzle box into a different configuration, and this releases several chains that burst through the box and puncture his skin.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: This, yeah, and like a couple things about this sea that I thought was pretty cool.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we at the in like the the meeting that seems to be like in a desert location, um, that the guy says the box was always yours when he buys it.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I like that because there's you could there's some like lore of the box that maybe it does seek out those with dark desires.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to note that Frank is like really sweaty in uh when he does this ritual throughout my candles.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: He is very sweaty when he when he does it.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I just girl, it's because of do you see those photos?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's why he's sweaty.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like I said I said this earlier.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we see uh uh a human Frank in this movie that is not moist, and uh so I just thought that was kind of funny.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is interesting that this movie completely leaves it up to our imagination of what he wanted with the box and why he seemingly knows how to use the box.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think two things here.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think by the time this movie, like I think at this point, I think once Julia sees the photos of Frank and stuff, we come we will come to learn pretty quick that Frank is like a hedonist, hedonist, hedonist?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hedonist, yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hedonist that is reached in his mind, probably the like his excitement is gone because he's probably done every form of sexual debauchery, deviancy known to man, and this is why he seeks out this box is that he knows he definitely knows that this is like a way uh uh a realm to unexplored and untapped pleasure and pain.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't think he truly knows what he's signing up for when he uh when he activates it.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we cut to a room with hanging chains, each with various pieces of human flesh stuck to the hooks.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: The floor looks like the floor of a butcher shop, and we're introduced to the Cenobites who search the pieces of human flesh for a face, reconfiguring the box for a mysterious cause.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: I completely actually forgot that we see the cinnabites this early in the film.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I gather what they're trying to do is put Frank's face back together.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Question mark.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is I was puzzled by this as well.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we have one of the Cinnabites play in his goop.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, they put the piece of the face back together.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't say for what purpose, really.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing I'll say about I love the spinning pillar with like the stuff nailed to it and the chains.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I really like this like butcher's shop, if we want to call it that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very like Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's so like it's just industrial, it's it's so like cool.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a cool take on like this like realm of pain, and it looks like people have been fucking tortured there, yeah, and like and torn apart.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're I think we are looking at various bits and bobs of Frank nailed to these objects.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is my theory.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: My theory is that they don't tell us why or how, but Frank has obviously escaped, right?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: He has not escaped.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Escaped yet.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: But oh, that's true.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wait.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because he he escapes when the blood falls into the room, which allows him to escape and reconstitute himself.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with that.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: You think he's escaped by now at this time?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's escaped.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that they're trying to like locate him.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because why would you why would you underneath the floorboards is where he's escaped.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like underneath the floorboards is where he's escaped, too.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe to that notion fully.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what I like about this movie.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't know why or how Frank escaped.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't, like you say, it's up to interpretation.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he hasn't escaped and they're trying to put him back together.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's very humpty.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's very like.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we transition to a couple, Larry and Julia, played by Andrew Robinson and Claire Higgins, who entered their new home in the aforementioned who knows where the fuck location.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Julia remarks, it smells bad, appearing very unimpressed with the interior.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: We learn that the house has been in Larry's family and that his brother Frank has been using it as a hideout.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: It appears Julia doesn't much like it here, but Larry assures her we can make it work here.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Julia reluctantly agrees.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you notice, Andrew, that she puts a cigarette right out on the hardwood floor?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't give a fuck, man.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: She hates this place.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think this is a signal to us of what this character is all about.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like she doesn't care, and she's very uninterested in the life that she is living.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I think.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot to say about the choices she's made to get where she is right now in this movie.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, once we learn more about her undying lust for Frank, it begs the question why would you have even ever married his brother?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you even put yourself here?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're obviously so unhappy.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing is, people all the time make this choice between do I want like this stable, reliable man who's going to provide this like house for me, or am I gonna go for this unstable bad boy who's really good at fucking me?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so she made a choice, and her choice is I'm going to be locked in this marriage, but just by virtue of this scene, you can tell that she's like really unhappy with that choice and really bored.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like he just seems like kind of a like uh Larry.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Larry's kind of like a happy to lucky dork in some ways, and she's like a stone cold bitch.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't really understand.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I understand signing up for something safe, but how did how would you even be a couple at this point?
• 47:03
  unknown: I don't know.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it also like there are points in this movie where like she does seem oddly like intimate with him, like when his hand is bloody, she wraps it and she holds it.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: It it doesn't seem to me anyway that she's completely checked out.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe she's happy with this move, but I do think she recognizes Larry as a pretty decent person.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because don't forget, Julie at the beginning of this movie, the one we're meeting right now, is a fucking far cry from who we get later.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like she goes through a rapid transformation.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: So she wants that, she wants that dick.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the couple, so the couple begin to explore the new home separately.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Larry discovering a kitchen in full decay.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: It appears someone has been here.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: He hears a cry from Julia who's been exploring the upstairs, and it appears Frank has been here.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point, you know, as the audience, we don't know anything about Julia and Frank, right?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: So Julia seems intrigued, tossing her bag on the mattress on the floor, and discovering some photos of Frank and various I wrote Mardi Gras photos.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wasn't sure what exactly they were depicting, but I think it's meant to show you that he is sexually adventurous.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think this is obviously he's a furry.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is these are like the the PG, these are the photos they would allow to show.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it realistically, this probably would have been like his photos of very, very sexually explicit photos of his his forays into his uh his hedonism.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was just nailing them for real with the furry masks up.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Frank is a furry.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I I don't think he explored that uh aspect of sexuality, uh, but I think he's into I think Frank is a guy who has tried literally everything, and I think some of that involves a lot of evil.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what's weird?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think these photos like depict anything like evil, but I think they do depict that he is like a little bit peculiar.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: So Julia, again, audience knows nothing about the relationship.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Julia is excited by these photos and chooses to save one of Frank for her personal collection, grabbing her purse and exiting the squatter's paradise.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: When asked what she thinks, Julia says, why not?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the couple agree to move in on Sunday.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: So as the couple move into their new abode, they hire a couple of movers, and one of them seems to find Julia attractive.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Fun fact here, I have two things to say about this.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: One, this mover was initially supposed to be played by none other than Doug Bradley himself, who initially wanted to appear on camera as himself rather than in makeup.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: And secondly, Julia really likes the attention from this mover, and she reeks of like both a lack of adventure and craving attention.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: She is a bored housewife, yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: And these movers, they it's almost to a fault playup.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're so creepy.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like the one that the guy at the front, yeah, it's cheesy though.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like the one at the front, he stares with this like slack jaw look on his face.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not only at not only does he do it with uh Julia, but he does it to Kirsty in a few minutes, and like everyone's just okay with this.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, ugh.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they haven't even they're drinking beer, yeah.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they have they haven't even brought the mattress up fully yet.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you want to get some beers?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who the fuck are these guys?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, uh no mattress first, dude.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Then we got the beer.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: How about you have beer at your own fucking house?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're done the job.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, who are these guys?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, like, they're I thought maybe they might be friends asking for beer, but apparently they're just like random movers.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have to say, when you think of horrors like slashes from the 1980s, what these movies tended to do, especially around this time, is their tertiary characters like movers, townsfolk, other characters, they would all act in this way that would pull you out of the film.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like these guys, in no way, like it and I'll call attention one particular thing.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: The heavier mover, who's obviously not the central character mover, he's kind of like giggling in the background with his beard, and it's like he's like hamming up the acting.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it pulls you out of the film.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're both terrible.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it takes like Julia to kind of bring you back down, but but that's a very common thing that happened in the 1980s.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're introduced to Larry's daughter, Kirsty, played by Ashley Lawrence, who won't be living with the family.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Larry asks Kirsty to be gentle with Julia, that she hates moving, and Kirsty responds with surprise.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we're immediately introduced to the concept of disdain for a stepparent, and we all know how complicated those relationships can be, Andrew.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so here's where the uh audience is introduced to Julia and Frank.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: So now we have a flashback to a rainy day back on the eve of Julia's wedding to Larry, where a very wet and unbelievably hot Frank knocks on the door.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Frank says, I came for the wedding, and Julia lets him into the home.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: But upstairs, Julia enters a dark room, and this room becomes ground zero for the rebirth of her beloved Frank.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's in this room where Julia begins to truly relive the night of bliss she had with Frank.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: He asks her in the flashback, are you going to let me kiss the bride?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: She asks him, What about Larry?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he completely normally brandishes a switch blade, which seems which seems to excite her even more, using it to slice open her top.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: It appears she hasn't experienced pleasure like this before and succumbs to its grasp.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: The two begin to make love.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: And would you believe it, right on top of her wedding dress.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: She quickly succumbs to her desire, and it just shows you that like she hasn't experienced a force like him before.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: And this permeates like her whole trajectory moving forward.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: As a post-coital Frank departs, Julia says to him, I'll do anything you want.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: So she got some really good dick.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this movie is is a result of that.
• 54:30
  unknown: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: So as the flashback plays out, we return to the foyer where Larry has sliced his finger on a nail while moving a mattress.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: And as he enters the room Julia is in, he spills blood upon the floorboards.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: The blood seeps beneath the floorboards where it appears a tiny organism is beginning to form.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would say too here, uh, not even seeps like it is directly absorbed, it's sucked into it.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is true.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think seep implies it could just naturally fall in between, but like this guy, I think it's obviously done for a bit of an exaggerated effect, but um leaks seemingly like a liter of blood on the floor.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so true.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's obviously I think it's done for the effect.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know it is, but um you can see like I think it's more that it's that really cool like effects work where you can see the blood being pulled into any crack or nail or hole or slit in the floor, um, as opposed to just like naturally doing what liquid it would do.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like being pulled down, which I liked a lot as effects-wise.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I also it just occurred to me that this room must be the inverse of the butcher room, and so how he escaped was between the floorboards.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's actually pretty cool.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is it is the same room, it's just like dimensionally different.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, but that's not obvious.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think two, I I think we get a couple scenes that it does show you that like that butcher's room is this room in that other dimension, though.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the same layout, it still has like it's it's uh I know rooms are rooms, I get it, but like four walls and a ceiling and a floor.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's meant to be, I do think it's meant to be like that's the place where he is mutilated and and tortured for pleasure, uh, is that room, but in their dimension.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whatever I'm not gonna I hate to use this reference, but like I think it that room is mirrored into their dimension.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I mean.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I it just never occurred to me until the second that the way he escaped was but just he was small enough when he was torn apart to whatever essence at the core of whoever Frank is, and I'm not even sure the beings are aware of this, was able to sneak away and exist in our earthly realm.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like a really interesting plot point.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so too.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing I'll say here before we continue on um the the whole the whole what we just talked about, what you just said, Frank, about going over the Julia reminiscing about Frank is interspliced with Larry move trying to move the mattress up the stairs, like it flashes back and really quick back and forth.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it almost seems like I I'm curious to see, like, I wonder if like if this was filmed in a more like recent time, if this would have been like a masturbation scene or something.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I only say that because the scene seemingly ramps up an intensity.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: She it's it's it's about to end while she's being uh while they're having sex, and that's interspliced with Larry's hand, getting closer and closer to the nail, and that part of the memory finishes as he rips his hand open on the nail, and she seems to like be breathing a little faster.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: She's her memory seems to be more intense and she's reminiscent about it.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious if that was kind of the idea for a bit.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just thought that was kind of interesting to remark upon.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the floorboards begin to bow and creak, releasing what appears to be pussy formations.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: Two small, narrow, bug-like appendages erupt from the floor and attach themselves to what appear to be a brain, oozing and gooey, creating what appears to be barely a human.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what I find interesting here is that it didn't take a lot of blood to move this thing along quite far in its transformation.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the like unless unless he really did leak leak leak a liter of blood in the floor.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I thought this in the whole movie, this is probably the closest we get to seeing like thing level practical effects.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um you see a lot of like emergence here, a lot of goo, like tissues sliding over other tissues, um, a lot of cool reverse camera work to get the effects of like the rib cage coming together and the head coming together.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was like this scene is like so gnarly.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I I actually kind of want to rewatch it after this.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're done, we're done doing this.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually that's true.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because like we were talking about this earlier, but like the fact that this is a horror movie, but it has this fly level of special effect in it, I think lends credibility to it and actually makes it far more interesting.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not it, it's almost a creature feature, like in some way.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was really interesting.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think beyond this, we don't we don't explore this again, in my opinion.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think this small scene, and again, could be budget, could be whatever.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I just think it was a really cool touch because they could have just started from Frank as you know, that skeletal fleshy being, but they went like the full distance to create this effect, which I thought was really neat.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Later that evening, Julia hears a noise from above and begins to explore.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: She hears whispers coming to a crescendo before going silent as she opens the door to the coital chamber.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm calling it from now on.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm gonna call it.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: So a decaying hand grabs hold of her leg and she cries out.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: The creature calls out her name Julia and asks her not to look at him.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: It asks her for help, and she whimperingly says, Tell me who you are.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: He says it's Frank, that it's really him, and that the blood on the floor brought him back.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: She asks from where, but all he says is, Please, God, just help me.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Frank says the blood brought him this far, but that he needs more.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is where I know I've been making jokes about good dick, but this is where I'm like, how far would I go for this thing?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this isn't hot Frank.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is like, is it in the hopes that this thing will get hot again that sparks her like whole adventure?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh maybe it's because she sees like I think this would be the ultimate turn off this this goopy monster, but like uh, like I said, she he looks like a skinless this quote, a skinless hell demon, and she's like, I can fix him.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just think it's so funny.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think she just came off that super horny dream and that super horny flashback, and she's like, Well, maybe you know he can come back the way he was, and we can bang all the time.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I would call an investment in a startup.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like like you gotta believe this will work, but anyway, she she doesn't she doesn't hop on right away.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I did want to tell you that Barker is an outspoken admirer of the Italian gore director Lucio Falci.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: And in such moments as the one that we just talked about, it shows horror is like science fiction, a genre where the makeup effects person can be a matinee star, and Hellraiser elevated Bob Keane to something close to Tom Savini level celebrity.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was Keane, who also is in part two or takes part in uh Part 2, who helped create the different skinned Franks, played by actor Oliver Smith, chosen because he was enough of a weedy ectomorph to still appear stripped down beneath built-up layers of heavy makeup.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: So again, we talked about them being different actors.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it is Oliver Smith who plays Frank until the end of the film.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: Later that evening, Julia enters the coital chamber and confirms she'll do what it takes to get Frank the bloody requires to reconstruct himself, realizing that yes, he will get hot again and fuck her.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I wrote it.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is like this is the thing about this character, Julia, and like she like the evilness to which she subscribes just to get laid by this guy is insane.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's true, but at the beginning, she is very hesitant.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she returns to the attic to let him know that yes, she will do it.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she had to go think about it, she had to weigh the pros and cons and come back.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good though.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is in hopes that he will get hot again and fuck her.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: That is why she's doing it.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy that she considered it, you know.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she considered it.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, at least, you know, she does have some low level of morality on display here, slightly.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: So now, according to Barker himself, one of the women on set suggested the film should be titled What a Woman Will Do for a Good Fuck.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: That really does kind of like sum up what this entire movie is about.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, though, like for like a hundred percent.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: None of these, none of the events past Frank disappearing or recon.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: I guess none of the events past his reconstitution would happen if it weren't for Julia.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, but also like, isn't she curious why he's like a blob of flesh and bone?
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: She just cares about one bone.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she doesn't really care about that.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she's not at all curious, and P.S.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody goes up to this attic but her.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: That room's not that room is a desk.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that room looks evil and looks like it's Red of the Evil Dead, and yet everyone's just like, yeah, whatever.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't have to go in there, do we?
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's one of those projects that you're like, okay, I'll do everything first, and then I'll get to it later.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that could be a gore that's at the front of the house.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think it is.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is at the front of the house.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Kirsty, who I just haven't mentioned at all, she's Kirsty.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Kirstie is a side dish for the first part of the film, so I just haven't talked much about her.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: She has a bad dream that night of a bloody corpse who turns out to be her father.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when she awakes, she calls her dad Larry.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: Larry confirms he's alright, never better, and the two hang up.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I bring up this seemingly like nothing scene is just to highlight that perhaps Kirstie has some low-level clairvoyance or is in tune with something happening at the house.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's an odd scene to put in there, and you could throw the scene away and be like, I don't care about it, but I do think it's interesting that she has a premonition of harm being done to her dad, which does happen.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: I also just I really like this aesthetically.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think stylistically, I just love this scene.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just like that there's like feathers acting kind of like snow, and it's like this white sheet that like it starts to seep with blood.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just think as a one-off scene, I I really liked I really like it.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: I liked it a lot.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love the scene.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's cool.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we transition to the next day where Julia is on the hunt for Red October.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Blood.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: Red October.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: She endures this is so funny to me because I think women do this a lot when confronted by men, but she endures boring conversation and she entices a gentleman back to the home.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: He says it's not often he uh and she says there's a first time for everything.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: The two begin to kiss, she begins to quiver with the realization of what she's about to do to this fellow, but says, Let's go upstairs.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Andrew, I have hooked up with many a man, and I don't know about you, but if I entered a rat-infested, wallpaper-torn, window-covered, dilapidated piece of shit room like this, I would probably get the fuck out of the house.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did this is the debate that I think I I had with myself too is like, so this guy is so horny, he allows himself to derbe in a completely desolate, like empty, barren room with no lighting and just a cold wooden floor.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: And rats.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: And rats.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I still think there's men that would do that.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think like that's I do too.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think when I read like the sometimes on Reddit, they'll be like, ask Reddit, like, what's like the stupidest thing you did because you're a horny?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's some pretty like people will do will go to lengths, like if they're desperate to get laid.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: They will some people will put up with a lot.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he obviously thinks she's like really hot.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: He actually says, he says, This isn't the bedroom, what's going on?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she replies, they don't need a bed, do they?
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's always preferred the floor, and the two it's just funny because like she is so hot to him, and I do actually think that she is an attractive woman.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't necessarily think she's like maybe conventionally attractive, but I think there's something really sexy about this actress.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: But this guy, like you said, will just he's like, Yeah, I guess.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the two begin to kiss right before she bludgeons the poor bastard with a hammer, spilling his blood and feeding the Frank monster.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this is Julia's first kill, and she does seem like both exhilarated and disturbed by it.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like when she's she's in the bathroom to like clean herself up a little bit, and like we get a shot of the camera that's a dead-on angle of her face.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Her face is right up against right up the camera, which is meant to be the mirror, and it's a cool um bit of acting, I'd say, to her struggling with the fact that she killed someone, but also like accepting that that's how it is.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, but we there's a couple scenes here, like you say, like dead shots of her.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I think she's such a good actor, because this scene, she's like, you can see that there is a thread of morality here.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like she like positive morality, like like she she does recognize what she just did was wrong and hard, and she doesn't feel good about it.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But then part of her is like turned on and excited by it.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a this is really important.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like the bathroom scene that you mentioned is kind of a little bit of a a change here for Julia.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's a great moment, and like it's kind of the turning point for her character, like uh really committing to what she's gonna do going forward.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So she returns to the room, she sees the corpse of the man, seemingly deflated and used.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: As an advanced stage, Frank appears in the corner, letting her know it's making him whole again.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: He says to Julia, Come to Daddy, that he wants to touch her.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And despite his form, she reluctantly agrees, but is interrupted by Larry, who has come home from work.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is the other thing that I was kind of like wondering is Larry kind of just pops home.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if he's home early, but she doesn't seem to care that she's bringing men back to the house to be murdered, or that Frank will be discovered in the attic.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, none of this seems to be a concern of hers.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious if like maybe I think he did come home early because like she it's the that is a very tight timeline to bring a man home and then your husband shows up like 10 minutes later.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna guess he popped home.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Also, Frank's makeup is really good.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's seeping with moisture and probably a lot of KY jelly.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I wanted to point out my friend made this remark.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my friend Max, we were watching this the other two.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she'd rather help out a literal corpse than sleep with her husband.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even at this point, she sees goopy Frank and she's like, Yep, this this is this is the right way.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Might I add, he doesn't look like Frank.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like at this point, even if he started to like slowly resemble him, I just I would be slightly more inclined to murder again.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look like this fucking dude, I might change my mind.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I also love too that like he's like, I have to touch you, and it's not like a romantic embrace that he like fondles her breast for a split second, and then Larry comes home.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's more than fucking Larry's been doing to her.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess so, man.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So as he ascends the staircase, we see Julia bringing the deflated corpse to the bathroom, pretending to take a shower.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_01: She says she's feeling sick.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Julia returns to the coital chamber where Frank tells her he needs maybe one or two more to heal completely, but she protests, saying, not again.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, like I mentioned before, like I've seen this movie so many times, but I didn't really clock how distraught she actually is.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that, like, she doesn't just want to do this again.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: She says no.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I can't do it again.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was so disturbing.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I get it, but I can't do it.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: He also tells her it's only a matter of time before the cenobites find him, that he needs to get away from here.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: But their conversation doesn't explore the cenobites.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, he doesn't say anything.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Does he say the word cenobite?
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like he says the cenobites, yes.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I thought you said they.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this is no, no, no.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: He says the cenobites, yes.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I I again I do I do like that, like she does come across as evil a few times already in this movie, but I think at least at least she's wrestling with the morality of killing again.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's a little bit disturbed by the fact because I think like thinking of something and doing something are two different things, and the fact that she just did it, now she's thinking about it going, like, holy fuck, I just did that.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am a murderous bitch, yeah, and has like reluctance toward doing it again.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, this is the other funny thing, too, is like Frank so easily waylays Julia.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So he assures Julia that they can be together the way they were before, aka backing on that bed, that they belong to each other now.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Julia seems to like this idea as she licks his fleshless finger.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't take much, dude.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised you're not making this connection because your point in obsession was that Nikki would use sex to placate Bear, and this is the same thing.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_01: The promise of a good time for this woman who hasn't had a good time since probably the last time they got together, is enough to make her go on a murderous rampage.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's true, though.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say in part two, she is dude, you have to watch part two immediately because it carries on her story.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I digress.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't even know why I mentioned this, but I thought I would.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we cut to a pet store where it appears Kirsty is hard at work, but she is interrupted by a seemingly unhoused man eating a handful of crickets.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yum.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_01: She appears disgusted and yells for him to leave.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: As he does, he glares back at her.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I first watched this movie, I wasn't sure why they popped this scene in.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm wondering if it's just for us to maintain like a tether to Kirsty as a character.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it also makes you wonder like who this man might be.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is he a guardian angel?
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is he watching over her?
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a side quest.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this, it's a second appearance because um earlier we like again when we do this podcast, obviously that we have little micro scenes that we don't always address.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_00: But earlier we mentioned how Kirsty was enamored by uh one of the men at that boring ass dinner.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kirsty goes on a walk with this guy, it's a one-off scene again.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's that important, but we do see that same homeless man like look at her between this like barn door to like a shed or something.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it is his second appearance, and they're like, what the hell?
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was even left wondering, like, what the what's the point of all this?
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then at the end, they kind of bring it home.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh kind of like barely.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like in a completely unnecessary, like it's a completely unnecessary.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly feel like this is like this weird thing to tether us to Kirsty.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I again want to push on this idea that like there may be something special about her, and that she somehow because this has nothing to do with the puzzle box, right?
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is she seems to have a connection with forces beyond Earth.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's my working theory.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we cut back to Julia who hammers the head of another unsuspecting victim to feed her boyfriend.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And is it me?
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or is she increasingly becoming more evil and satisfied with every kill?
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I bring this up is because you juxtapose the bathroom scene with a small scene here where she's all dressed in white, hair slicked back, while she kind of enjoys a drink with Larry, and they do that same eye thing that you mentioned earlier, but there seems to be like a little glimmer in her eye this time.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not only is she getting used to it, but that she enjoys it, and she's starting to turn more diabolical.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's in fact, by the time we get to the third kill, it's very matter of fact of her leading the man there and grabbing the the way she grabs the hammer, she's not trembling, she's not, she just grabs it and goes to town on the guy.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like business, she is a serial killer, yeah.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she's she at this point, she's very much justified at like, yep, let's do this, let's get this over with so Frank can come back to life and fuck me.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And mind you, the first thing they do is fuck.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk about if that's weird, okay.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we transition to Frank, who dons a white dress shirt, I'm assuming one of Larry's, smoking a cigarette, saying he can almost taste it.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Julia says he promised her an explanation.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: So Frank holds up the puzzle box, telling her it opens doors to the pleasures of heaven or hell, and that he didn't care which.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_01: He says the Cenobites gave him an experience beyond the limits, pain and pleasure.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we kind of flash back to Frank hung upside down in the torture chamber, hooks spilling blood from his body.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It appears Julia can see this as well, and she gasps.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Frank says they won't get me back, and Julia assures him they'll never find us.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Although, how the fuck would she know?
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: But she seems really, really certain.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we do get a little bit of an answer to the question I asked earlier, which was, what was he doing with the box?
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_01: You gave the explanation that he's trying to push the limits of pleasure and pain, and you're exactly right.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So somehow he knew, he found out about this, he attained it, and then he was able to explore whatever that was.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think the box, in my mind, I think the lament configuration is like it's kind of like the Necronomicon in that sense that it lures people to it as well.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not like I think someone like Frank, with like the basic of research, would have found it up with this thing because it would have found its way to him.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then he went to Egypt.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't know.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have an undescript undescript, like yeah, desert location, Arabian location, I think.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Exorcist does this as well, where it's like, I don't I don't know where it is, but they seem to take place in these like unlike misunderstood foreign lands where you can attain these objects of absolute destruction and then bring them back to wholesome America.
• 1:21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever you're obtaining like in the 80s and 90s, uh, whenever you're obtaining an artifact of power, you just throw some sand in the background and some cool sandstone archways, and you got yourself an Arabian location like Egypt or something.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but you're right.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I do think you I do think you have a point though where I do think the box is probably attracted to someone as sadistic as Frank and as evil as Frank.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, in this flashback where you we see him, I think he's hanging upside down, bleeding.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I is it this scene where we kind of see him, he's kind of enjoying it, or is that later?
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the end of the movie?
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to forget.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, this you are absolutely correct.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is to illustrate the fact that the chains are inside of him and he's bleeding, but he's like writhing in pleasure and ecstasy.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's both, yeah.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think part of the centibytes is their ability to make like again, like juxtaposed like extreme pleasure with extreme pain.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So even if he didn't want to experience the pleasure, it's almost like you have no choice because they're inflicting it upon you.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I think when he's yeah, I I just think I what I I think though, I think with this realm, the the this this place, I think it wouldn't be that way for everybody, though.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like if if if Kirstie or like myself or someone else opened the box and went there, I'd it would probably just feel like torture, like I'd be beating tortured to death.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like someone like him who's wired for this, I think it's very much like meant for someone like him.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's very much like he loves the the pain is arousing, it is sexually gratifying for him in this in this realm.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I just don't think that would be the same way for everybody.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I absolutely later when we have Pinhead, he says we're angels to some, demons to others.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I mentioned earlier that like, you know, this is probably been going on for like one to two weeks, I'm guessing.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like Larry like has never entered this room.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and somehow, like, it just like it's just like a rat.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't even addressed the rat problem in the house, which I actually think is the most unbelievable part.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I had to believe that a box could bring me to a cosmic dimension, I would have an easier time believing that than someone not addressing their rat problem in their attic for like two weeks.
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just would not like that house, is like when we see the house in disrepair, it's like pretty gross.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know they I know they clean it up and stuff, but that's the thing, is like no one like barely, yeah.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like barely cleaned up.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I I no one would be okay with the amount of rats that are in the I know, yeah.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he does hear a noise upstairs, and he says, We'll go together.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So Julia, like obviously, she pleads with him suspiciously, saying she hates the thunder.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as the two enter the room, they find nothing but the existing rat infestation, two of whom are pinned to the wall with nails, and they decide to do nothing about it.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that Julia dissuades Larry from going into the room is by placating him with sex, yeah.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this is like a cra- it's just funny as we've been doing obsession and then this film, like how much of a theme that has become.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even think like Julia only wants to use it enough to make Larry divert his attention, but then his response to that is he wants to make love to Julia, like submitting to her advances.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I actually like it's it's kind of sad, like this whole the whole scene of them like her trying to stop him going up to the to the attic, or like you almost get some look into their marriage for a brief little period here, because like we get very limited dialogue exchange with these two in the movie.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like very much quick exchanges of task.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like, this is like you can see how maybe he was charmed by her, like she's using a nice voice with him for the first time.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, please, like she's like she's talking to him like a partner might talk, like a wife might talk to a husband, and vice versa.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of for me, it's just it's kind of sad because like Larry's is just like this, he's just this oblivious to the the person he's married to, and like the the way that she clearly does is not in love with them, and like it's just like sad that you can almost see a glimpse here of maybe when they first met it was nice like this, only for her to really be using this to not to like not go in that room.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_01: But it's funny because like you said, like when Larry hears a noise upstairs, like what is Frank doing?
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And why wouldn't they just assume it's the rats?
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: We actually we actually see what he's doing.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_01: What is he doing?
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_00: For some reason, Frank is walking back and forth, like running back and forth, like he's doing like like like laps or something.
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's impatient.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's like he's like pacing back and forth.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_01: He wants to ascend.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so as Larry and Julia sort of begin to make love, an angry Frank emerges from the closet with his trusty switchblade, slicing open a rat.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Julia cries, she can't bear it, and Larry stops saying he just doesn't understand her for departing the bedroom.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think Frank wants her making love with anyone else but Frank.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I took from that moment.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this this scene is there's a couple of disturbing things here from like my point of view, and maybe when so Julia I'll just say, like, Julia starts protesting, she sees Frank, and she's on her back, and we have Larry over her kissing her neck or something like that.
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's very tame, but she's only looking at the closet, and as Frank emerges with the blade in his hand, uh she starts saying no.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know if this is this no was meant.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: For just the audience or like her internal monologue, but if it's saying out loud, I I do find it kind of like weird that like Larry is not changing behavior or anything while she's saying no a few times.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then read it like that.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't either, I don't, I don't think like I said, I think this is a stylistic choice to like present.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I do too, 100%.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because she says no, I can't bear it.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stop.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever this is, is like something.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is a moment where I think she's breaking and realizing like holy fuck.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is super sad for Leary and also a little bit fucked up of Frank.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, his whole life is fucked up.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, like, she doesn't, it's so weird because she doesn't really know Frank.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, she's as a person, no.
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's she only knows him for like, and there are people that exist that way.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she they it's for her, it's been carnal desire.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not like they've had to live together and get groceries and sort out bills.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like she with him lives in this, she can live in a fantasy land, and that's what that's what keeps her going on this murderous spree.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting because like she sees him cut open a rat with this switchblade and somehow finds this acceptable behavior.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like she doesn't know him.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just I just found that I found the scene actually really odd more than I found it uh like interesting or related to the plot in any way, but that's just my own thought.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's I think it's maybe just to show us Frank's possession over his playthings, you know, over these people that he has like complete power over.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's his life.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, exactly.
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're gonna see later how quickly he is willing to discard someone when something new comes around.
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, as Julia brings another bow home to beloved Frank, it appears Kirstie is outside and is a witness to her transgression.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting because this time, as she brings the man upstairs, she doesn't even feign interest, but gets right down to business.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_01: As she attempts to swing the old hammer, Frank intervenes to complete the kill, puncturing the man's neck with his bare hands.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this is I I like this for I like the not irony.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love what this means to Kirsty and versus what the audience knows is like from Kirstie's eyes, she probably thinks that Julia's just cheating on her dad.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like it's so much worse than that.
• 1:30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like Julia's bringing these guys home to be murdered and siphoned, blood siphoned by Frank.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like, why would you think that?
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like it's just she's like, she's a cheating bitch, but really she's like a blood succubus feeding bitch.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just cheater.
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's gonna soon find the truth out here, but uh yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So she gains entry into the house, Kirsty, ascends the stairs, and is greeted by the bloated suitor, consumed by the succubus.
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_01: It asks her for help, but is pulled away by her dear Uncle Frank, who tells her it's Uncle Frank, and shows, you know what's so weird?
• 1:31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am an Uncle Frank in this so fucking bizarre.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so Uncle Frank shoves her into the attic room.
• 1:31:42
  SPEAKER_01: She says, This isn't happening, but he tells her not to kid herself, that some things have to be endured.
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of falling prey to her uncle, she punctures his weak, fleshy stomach with her hand before grabbing the puzzle box and tossing it out the window.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_01: This distracts Frank just enough for her to escape the chamber.
• 1:32:04
  SPEAKER_01: As she flees the house, she grabs the puzzle box and takes it with her.
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So now Frank is boxless.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like this scene, this scene has some more disturbing undertones than Oh, yes.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so uh one thing that's essential to note here is that Frank says to Christy, come to Daddy.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's his iconic line that he uses on his lovers.
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we know he says it to Julia, and here he has her pressed up against the wall, and he's basically like has his face in her face, sniffing her and stuff.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I, in my opinion, I have no doubt he might be going to like force himself on her in this scene.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then the puzzle box completely snaps him out of this like thirsty fucking attack.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he's that's when he freaks out.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, don't, you know, he freaks, and then she throws out the window and she's you want the box, go get it, whatever.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's weird too, is I also feel like not only that, but that he was also going to consume her in order to like complete his transition.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I think, yeah, I think it was like a two for one for him.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And twofer.
• 1:33:20
  unknown: A twofer.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the come to daddy line is very important for later.
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because we're gonna it it it lets Kirsty know in a later scene.
• 1:33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Kirsty awakes in a hospital having fainted outdoors after the run-in with Frank.
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_01: She says she has to call her father.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_01: The doctor pulls the box from his pocket and asks her if she knows anything about it, that the police will want to speak with her.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, she begins toying with the box, and small electrodes emerge forth before the box migrates to another formation and opens what appears to be a portal.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_01: She enters a narrow hallway where she hears cries in the distance.
• 1:34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said earlier, spoiler, if you like anything about this scene, the fact that there is like a portal, a hallway, another dimension, part two heavily explores the totality of what that actually looks like beyond just this hallway.
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, if you're interested, you should definitely check it out.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's well reviewed on IMD.
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna watch it.
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna watch it like if I can't watch it.
• 1:34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tonight, I'm gonna watch it next week for sure.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_01: So she continues down the dark hallway.
• 1:34:37
  SPEAKER_01: She sees a giant humanoid creature at the end of the hall and it begins to chase her.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_01: This creature reminds me so much of creatures from Nightmare Elm Street in the Mouth of Madness and other like 80s like creature features that you can see.
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is an Aldra to Bombs.
• 1:34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really cool here is like, really quick, just from a funny thing, is you can actually see the wheels of the um apparatus this thing is on, like for the effects.
• 1:35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can see the the cartwheels on the ground.
• 1:35:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of funny.
• 1:35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I did I need to see that again.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can definitely tell it is a human in a suit, and the head of the demon is like an appendage at their waist.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so wait, so she does she does manage to narrowly escape this hungry demon for now and attempts to use the box to make it disappear.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_01: What she does end up doing is exploring another configuration, which appears to unleash the Cenobites: the chatterer, pinhead, butterball, and the female Cenobite, whom in the novella is called Deep Throat, which I thought was hilarious.
• 1:35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it is not a sexual pun, it is because her throat is pulled open to expose esophagus.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hers, it just looks so painful.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and when she talks, it appears painful.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in my opinion, we don't get enough of these cinnabytes at all.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like we get two lines from her, and that's it.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she does not come back for part two.
• 1:36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 1:36:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's a shame.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know, this is great.
• 1:36:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Pinhead tells Kirstie, you opened it, and we came.
• 1:36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Iconic line.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he tells her, as aforementioned, they are demons to some, angels to others.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_01: He goes on to say that because she summoned them, she must taste their pleasures.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Kirstie cries out to them, asking if they've done this to a man named Frank Cotton.
• 1:36:48
  SPEAKER_01: She tells them that he escaped them, that she's seen him, that he's alive.
• 1:36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Her plan is to lead the Cenobites to Frank in place of herself.
• 1:36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Pinhead does say he wants to hear Frank confess, but if she cheats them, they'll tear her soul apart.
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what I find what I find really cool with this is that they didn't know he escaped.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, when she first suggested No, he escaped.
• 1:37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like so.
• 1:37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like, I like that these Cenobites are not these like omnis omniscient um beings.
• 1:37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they obviously exist in a physical realm, they obviously have physical limitations themselves because they did not know that Frank escaped until like because um Pinhead at first denies that he escaped and then she like quickly convinces him otherwise.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just like that like she's making a deal like with them.
• 1:37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I really like this part, like that they are willing to listen to her briefly.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I also too I love the line here.
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Pinhead gets very few lines.
• 1:37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's another iconic line.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just um he says, please no tears, they're a waste of good suffering.
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's an awesome, like metal as hell line um from Pinhead here.
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like his the dialogue he does get to play with uh in this movie, so many some really iconic and cool lines here, and the gravitas with which he says them.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed earlier he said, like, you know, he the makeup to do the talking, the uh the the the costume, but his delivery with his voice is fantastic.
• 1:38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh 100%.
• 1:38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he does he does an amazing, amazing job.
• 1:38:38
  SPEAKER_01: And also I have a small sorry, I have a small nitpick here.
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_01: The ease in which, so we learn here that obviously this box, we talked about this earlier, the different configurations will open up different realms or different pockets, whatever you want to call them.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_01: I find it interesting the ease in which she plays on a configuration and the Eldritch monster just kind of disappears.
• 1:39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the ease in which she's able to configure this box in order to do whatever she needs to do, I find a little too easy.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's my only nitpick.
• 1:39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do too.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it literally is a puzzle box.
• 1:39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I think there could have been there's in a story, anyways, if this was like in a book, you could probably have a ton of lore on how this thing works.
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you said, like, I know we watched in in the in the remake, we actually get more lore on those configurations, which I love.
• 1:39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think for the ease of simplicity to make this movie happen, because we still have the third act to like we're entering the third act with this scene.
• 1:39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's just for ease of access to the movie.
• 1:39:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you can't spend too much time here, otherwise the movies, the movie length would would be longer, but maybe it would have been worth it.
• 1:40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe Kirsty somehow maybe even having a scene to show why she's so naturally in tune with the Lament configuration.
• 1:40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um dude, I have a hard time with Chinese checkers, and she's like like doing like massively like sophisticated configurations to open and close portals.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_01: I also love it.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I I digress.
• 1:40:24
  SPEAKER_00: I also love too.
• 1:40:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I read somewhere that um with the budgets that they had, they had they constructed several boxes in the different configurations simply because the box itself defies physics with some of its configurations, right?
• 1:40:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I read that um that they had to be careful.
• 1:40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I read that they had to be careful with these boxes on set because like they only had so many, they were they were like kind of hard to make, and due to budget, they couldn't just like trash these boxes, so like they had to keep care of them.
• 1:40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 1:40:54
  SPEAKER_01: In part four, they use CGI, and it is a fucking wreck, anyway.
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_01: For the boss, okay, yes, they uh they do, yes, and that's how they're able to do like more sophisticated configurations, but it looks like a picture like early 2000s, I think it's like late 90s, early 2000s, but it's horrific.
• 1:41:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just watched it today, actually, so it's fresh on the brain how silly it was.
• 1:41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Larry does arrive home, and we cut to a heeled hand gracing Julia's face, leaving a trace of blood.
• 1:41:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we are meant to assume that Larry was indeed murdered, and Frank has been able to make a full recovery.
• 1:41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to skim over this, but essentially we don't see Frank's face here, but the reaction of the hand on Julia's face is the dead giveaway that indeed they have achieved their goal of killing Larry.
• 1:41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's like he's she's like she he strokes her face, and but she's like so into it.
• 1:42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she's super in it, and it's bloody.
• 1:42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's yeah, and then she's I think she finds that even hotter, like the blood mixed with like they're gonna bang.
• 1:42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 1:42:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's true.
• 1:42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think she like we say we talk about this like trajectory of her character, she really has come full circle to become like a diabolical, demonic, serial killing, sex-crazed human.
• 1:42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she really has been unlocked or corrupted, or whatever you want to call it.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because the two, despite being worried about the police, Andrew, they make, finally make sweet, hot, loving.
• 1:42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do we see, do we not see his face here once they make love?
• 1:42:56
  SPEAKER_01: They we only see the back of his head.
• 1:42:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's only when Kirsty shows up, right?
• 1:43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 1:43:02
  SPEAKER_01: But in but that's the but the scene where they're making love, we still don't know.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess this whole thing is to teat to tell us that, like, yes, Frank is fully formed, but we never see Frank's face.
• 1:43:16
  SPEAKER_01: But she finally gets fucked.
• 1:43:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like like all her hard work, like this scene is so important.
• 1:43:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like after all of the hard blood, sweat, and tears, she's like, fuck the police.
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really need to get it in because I have worked so fucking damn hard for this.
• 1:43:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna fuck me now.
• 1:43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that like it's it's clearly like the very first thing they would probably get to as soon as Frank reconstituted himself.
• 1:43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And probably through Julia's head is like, okay, I did kill three people, but this is worth it.
• 1:43:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is very much worth it.
• 1:43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm going to move on, and then I have some questions about something.
• 1:44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Kirstie rushes to her father's home, calling for him to let her in, but is instead greeted by her evil stepmother Julia.
• 1:44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Kirsty demands she wants to see her father, and Julia replies, of course, letting her inside the house.
• 1:44:22
  SPEAKER_01: When Kirstie heads upstairs, she is greeted by her father, who assures her everything is okay, that Julia told him everything.
• 1:44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it is important to note here that he has a full-on bloody trail surrounding his face, which she doesn't comment on.
• 1:44:43
  SPEAKER_01: But my question to you is it is now clear that this is Frank with Larry's face on him.
• 1:44:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on?
• 1:44:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna I I originally I originally thought that when Frank was reconstituting himself, he would just eventually reform into his old body.
• 1:45:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it's very clear that he's just directly taking parts of these people to reform himself.
• 1:45:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there is never I don't think there was ever a world where Frank was gonna be able to get his old skin back.
• 1:45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think he his muscles and stuff reconstituted, that's fine, but he he he's taking from these bodies directly, and he had to take the skin, and obviously kill his brother, but take the skin off of Larry.
• 1:45:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's wearing it his entire all his skin that you're seeing is Larry's skin suit.
• 1:45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that super disturbing.
• 1:45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I found it really gross too, like the line, the clear line of the face mask he's wearing that's even at the back of his head.
• 1:45:51
  SPEAKER_00: So clever.
• 1:45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you something?
• 1:45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think Julia was aware that he was doing that?
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I don't I almost wish actually, no, I don't almost wish.
• 1:46:07
  SPEAKER_00: I do wish.
• 1:46:07
  SPEAKER_00: I remember thinking this.
• 1:46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I wish we had a scene where we see her see him for the first time as the Larry Frank, like that version of him.
• 1:46:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just her response.
• 1:46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Be utterly fucking disgusted.
• 1:46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it's like you promised me, because let me tell you, I try and be objective about people's looks.
• 1:46:30
  SPEAKER_01: I swear I do.
• 1:46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I try not to categorize people, and I just accept that everyone is unique and interesting in their own way.
• 1:46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Having said that, when you look at Frank and you look at Larry, and I was promised Frank, but I got Larry, I would be fucking like mortified.
• 1:46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm like, sorry, and it's my husband that I don't like.
• 1:46:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many layers to this too.
• 1:46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it's like when you like when you want to be with someone that way, like you want to sex someone, the yeah, the the skin and the physicality is like almost number one there.
• 1:47:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be in the top three reasons why you're with them.
• 1:47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And to not only not get the guy that you remember, the person you remember, like you picture this fantasy, this hot fantasy of this person, but then it's not only that, but it's your husband.
• 1:47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's like it's like your ex you're disgusted with.
• 1:47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not just a random person, it's like, oh, it's like my ex.
• 1:47:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have to like, I know it's the person I want underneath, but it's my ex's skin.
• 1:47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 1:47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you just be like, Hey man, love is love, love isn't love isn't skin deep.
• 1:47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what that's the lesson of the movie, ultimately, correct?
• 1:47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, I think that is the ultimate lesson is that lust and love do go beyond the, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, guys.
• 1:47:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, like really get to know, get to know someone.
• 1:48:02
  SPEAKER_01: So Kirsty tells Larry his brother is upstairs and that he's going to kill him.
• 1:48:07
  SPEAKER_01: But Larry assures her it's finished now, that he's gone.
• 1:48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Kirsty seems mildly placated by this, but also in severe disbelief, saying she needs to see him.
• 1:48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Larry agrees and gestures to Julia to show her.
• 1:48:24
  SPEAKER_01: And as the two enter the coital chamber, we get a glimpse of a smoking, bloodied corpse on the floorboards.
• 1:48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ever the cunning Julia locks Kirsty in the room, and soon we are visited by the Cenobites once again.
• 1:48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Pinhead says, We want the man who did this.
• 1:48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Kirstie exits the chamber, calling to her father, they have to get out of here.
• 1:48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Before he creepily says back, come to daddy.
• 1:48:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's in this sentence that she quickly realizes this ain't her dad, but rather Frank wearing the skin of her father.
• 1:49:07
  SPEAKER_01: As he approaches Kirsty to make short work of her with his switchblade, he instead knifes Julia in her gut, murdering her, telling her it's nothing personal, baby.
• 1:49:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she's toast.
• 1:49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why did he kill Julia?
• 1:49:24
  SPEAKER_00: I you you have to, I think if we look at this one of two ways, okay.
• 1:49:29
  SPEAKER_00: We can believe Frank from earlier, who said we belong together, that kind of thing.
• 1:49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, or you we could say he's just I think he is in such a pursuit of sexual experiences.
• 1:49:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he's in pursuit of human connection.
• 1:49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so despite Julia doing all this shit for him, and I think maybe this is an allegory for you know some married married men out there or men out there.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is like this one girl literally murders, becomes a serial killer for this guy, is quickly discarded for the hot new thing on the block, right?
• 1:50:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's Kirsty's younger, she's supple, you know what I mean?
• 1:50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like to in his mind, he's oh, you think it's for that reason?
• 1:50:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I absolutely think that.
• 1:50:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's like he can absolutely discard he can in his mind.
• 1:50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he ever cared about Julia, man.
• 1:50:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think she was a means to an end, and he'd obviously happily fuck her, but I think he is in pursuit of something new.
• 1:50:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was never gonna settle in with Julia and keep just to her.
• 1:50:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was the thing.
• 1:50:39
  SPEAKER_00: I am built so different than that guy.
• 1:50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think most I think 99% of the population is.
• 1:50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think if we really if you really if you really think about the the limits of like what would be possible uh in in Frank's character, for him to have gone to the puzzle box means I'm like, I think he has sought out all manners of sexual experience.
• 1:51:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think he's perpetually like even now he's maybe he he has a new lease on life, he's still after it.
• 1:51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like he doesn't he's not appreciative of the fact that he's alive again.
• 1:51:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's just like appreciate the fact, oh, I can go back to he's he's a he he is like he is a slave to hedonistic tendencies.
• 1:51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he's a sex addict, maybe it's a bunch of things, but so I think I I think Julia was just a means to an end, and that as long as he has some woman on the go, um, I think he's absolutely fine with that.
• 1:51:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think Kirsten I don't bel like I don't agree with you with the like upgrading to like Kirsty, but I do agree with you that like he is such a selfish prick that his goal was never to like set up a house and home with Julia, yeah.
• 1:52:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I don't even know if that was her goal.
• 1:52:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think her goal is also pleasure, but it does make sense that he would just discard her like nothing, right?
• 1:52:12
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't care, he doesn't have a love or a sincere bone in his body.
• 1:52:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is the guy that banged his brother's wife on her wedding dress and has no consciousness about it, right?
• 1:52:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but this is a whole other level.
• 1:52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the Frank, the Frank and Larry figure begins to hunt for Kirsty within the home, approaching the upstairs chamber where it all began.
• 1:52:37
  SPEAKER_01: As Kirsty attempts an escape, Frank approaches her from behind, cornering her within the room.
• 1:52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Light begins to pour in from the darkness, and the centibytes appear.
• 1:52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to tell you, lights begin to pour in through the walls, right?
• 1:52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like the slats on the walls seem to be like four inches apart.
• 1:52:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so light.
• 1:53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they changed.
• 1:53:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're right.
• 1:53:03
  SPEAKER_01: It it alters, I think it alters from like the earthly realm to the centibyte realm.
• 1:53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is the moment where I realized that this was this this was the room that Frank was initially in at the beginning of the film.
• 1:53:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I tied it together that oh, he is inside the house.
• 1:53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because at the beginning of the movie, you have no idea.
• 1:53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had no clue that that's where he was.
• 1:53:25
  SPEAKER_01: But now it all clicked into place for Frank.
• 1:53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Me, me, Frank.
• 1:53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it appears Kirsty has set him up as chains reach from the darkness and plunge into Frank's skin.
• 1:53:38
  SPEAKER_01: He says Jesus wept before being torn apart limb from limb.
• 1:53:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I sorry, the reason I think that line is so insane is because this guy is a fucking narcissistic prick who feels like he is oh, he is immune to consequence equating himself with Jesus?
• 1:54:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just thought of something.
• 1:54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you know how at the beginning of the film they're putting his face back together?
• 1:54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is there part of you that wonders if that was a scene that happens after he gets torn apart at the end of the film?
• 1:54:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think I think he was torn apart the first time and then reconstitutes, and then now it's being torn apart again.
• 1:54:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 1:54:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I I also like the what you just said.
• 1:54:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think the i that idea is cool.
• 1:54:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, a distraught Kirstie attempts another escape but is met by Deep Throat, who says, Not leaving us so soon, are you?
• 1:54:51
  SPEAKER_01: Kirstie enters her father's bedroom and sees Julia's corpse on the bed, puzzle box in hand, and begins to play with a configuration.
• 1:55:01
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to tell you this mattress that Julia is on, which seems like nondescript in this movie, becomes absolutely vital in part two.
• 1:55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it's like it's kind of a throwaway like, why is she on the mattress?
• 1:55:20
  SPEAKER_01: She also has chains linked throughout her body, but in part two, it becomes her entry back into the world, and it's it's just so gruesome and disgusting.
• 1:55:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's so it's so gruesome and disgusting that I just feel like you're gonna get such a kick out of that film when you watch it.
• 1:55:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I love when I've seen something so good and you haven't seen it and you get to see it, it's like uh I have uh Sharon hasn't seen Nightmare on Elm Street.
• 1:55:55
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 1:55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know it's on pump.
• 1:55:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna watch those soon.
• 1:55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh Jesus.
• 1:56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, and this is where Pinhead appears, letting Kirsty know that we have such sights to show you.
• 1:56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she fumbles with the box, yelling for the cinnabites to go to hell.
• 1:56:16
  SPEAKER_01: She indeed does luck out with a few trusty configurations that send each centibyte back to their otherworldly dimension.
• 1:56:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're right here too.
• 1:56:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you are right in this, I think, especially here.
• 1:56:32
  SPEAKER_00: She dispatches them very easily.
• 1:56:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's there's no big fight scene.
• 1:56:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not that I wanted this.
• 1:56:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that there should have been.
• 1:56:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just I wanted something, yeah.
• 1:56:40
  SPEAKER_00: But like come on.
• 1:56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, man.
• 1:56:42
  SPEAKER_00: I do wish there was like more resistance here.
• 1:56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like or power display.
• 1:56:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even when like she zaps each one of the way, and even I think it's um uh who's a butterball.
• 1:56:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the one that actually grabs her, and like she swats him across the face a couple times, and then she's able to still configure it, even though he has her held.
• 1:57:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I did find it like a little too easy to get away from these centibytes, but that's just like my criticism.
• 1:57:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's funny?
• 1:57:13
  SPEAKER_01: My criticism about her like easily configuring the box from earlier.
• 1:57:16
  SPEAKER_01: You met with well, it could just be the fact that like she her intention is to you know do A, B, or, C.
• 1:57:24
  SPEAKER_01: This actually, like, if you take that argument now and you go, perhaps, you know how in a dream you wake yourself up?
• 1:57:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this could be as easy as the intention with the box is I want these things gone, you know, bingo, they go away.
• 1:57:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that just is a satisfying enough reason for me.
• 1:57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 1:57:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think her, I think this box, like you'll see it a couple times.
• 1:57:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think Pinhead just and like even her will just touch the top of it and it'll slide itself out and then back in.
• 1:57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just the slip?
• 1:57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe it is just yeah, it is like your mental what you are desiring is how it will configure itself for you.
• 1:58:08
  SPEAKER_01: But Andrew, this does not end for Kirstie.
• 1:58:11
  SPEAKER_01: The creature that chased Kirstie down the hall reappears for one last battle, grasping at her before she manages to also send it packing back to another dimension.
• 1:58:23
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing I want to note here is that it seems when she opens or closes either the creature dimension or the centibyte dimension, it sort of like makes the other one open.
• 1:58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did you notice?
• 1:58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see that?
• 1:58:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything.
• 1:58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because this happened twice now.
• 1:58:40
  SPEAKER_00: When she got rid of one thing, it was on to the next.
• 1:58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like absolutely.
• 1:58:44
  SPEAKER_00: And also to note here, it's not really important, surprisingly, but her boyfriend has joined her by this point.
• 1:58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've totally left him out of the script.
• 1:58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are correct.
• 1:58:53
  SPEAKER_00: He is like he is a completely one note, unworthy character, like unlikely.
• 1:59:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's a nothing burger character.
• 1:59:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like he is, he absolutely is a nothing burger character.
• 1:59:04
  SPEAKER_00: Who at like he's just there, he shows up right around the time that Butterball grabs her, and yeah, they fight this thing off briefly together, and it's yeah, he's just lame.
• 1:59:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question.
• 1:59:16
  SPEAKER_00: Does this creature need to be in this movie at all?
• 1:59:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I don't think so.
• 1:59:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you know what I think, I think I like the lore implications that, like, in the hospital with other configurations, she briefly discovered this other realm.
• 1:59:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do I think they had to throw it in the climax?
• 1:59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:59:35
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, by this point, they had built the things, they probably wanted to get some more dollar value out of it.
• 1:59:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking the same thing.
• 1:59:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you just wanted this to be used again.
• 1:59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:59:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, why not?
• 1:59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I digress.
• 1:59:48
  SPEAKER_01: But okay, this is another like, why is this why is this in the film?
• 1:59:53
  SPEAKER_01: But as she exits the home on a rainy evening, she decides to burn the puzzle box in a random fire somewhere.
• 2:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Question mark.
• 2:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, is this what meant to be the rebel?
• 2:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I thought maybe this was like a quick like edit problem where the house had burned down and she's burning it in the rubble of the house, but it looks like it's like in a homeless field or something.
• 2:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: She went to a weird bomb location where there was a war.
• 2:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: They obviously like I don't know if it's like runtime or editing.
• 2:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: They obviously this felt really quick.
• 2:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: All like it's it's like almost as post-apocalyptic.
• 2:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so as the box begins to burn, the unhoused man from earlier heads into the fire to retrieve it, beginning to burn and morphing into a skeletal bird being before flying away with the box.
• 2:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I could have done without this and the eldritch creature at the very end.
• 2:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't understand, and I actually forgot that both of those things were in the film, and I've seen this movie like a hundred times.
• 2:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if they were trying to like they didn't want the movie to just end on the note of the Cenobites going back to their dimension, and they wanted to add another layer of demonic activity.
• 2:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't make the connection and didn't understand.
• 2:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think Clive Barker has this, like, he's very much into the world building of this, of this, this whole world of Hellraiser, like the hellbound heart.
• 2:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think he has he had at least some of it plotted out.
• 2:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that creature, like, or some form of it is in the lore.
• 2:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the protector, or like it's the guardian of the box that it oversees its its moving about the planet to other people.
• 2:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever that box is, that thing will take various forms to watch, watch the people who have it in their possession.
• 2:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I there's that I read I read that that you would never know that from this movie, really.
• 2:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think, other than that it flies away with the box, I guess.
• 2:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you put that together, but I think maybe that's why in his mind, like world building-wise, it's like a it it also opens up a sequel, the box isn't burned, it's gone elsewhere.
• 2:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I actually love that.
• 2:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we end with a scene of the puzzle box on the table in front of two men.
• 2:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: The man to the right being asked what his pleasure is before the film comes to a close.
• 2:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so the box has indeed found another victim, it appears, Andrew.
• 2:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Probably someone as sadistic as Frank.
• 2:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: At an undescript Arabian location.
• 2:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so that is Hellraiser, y'all! Join us again for our next feature film.