Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1098 Isaac Kenyon - Adventure and Mental Health

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Ep. 1098 Isaac Kenyon - Adventure and Mental Health · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello friends and welcome to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for joining us again today.
0:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just visiting with our guests and we were talking about how beneficial adventure can be.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: When you do something that challenges you a little bit, you get out into nature, you move and get healthier and have life experiences that enhance your well-being and your entire life.
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Our guest is Isaac Kinnan.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: who has made a career of doing just that Isaac is an international keynote speaker.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a philanthropic world record-breaking British ego adventurer now there's a mouthful.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: An energy transition expert communicator.
0:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: A fellow of the Royal Geographical Society of London and the Geological Society of London and a trustee for the mind, mental, health, charity now, we're going to be talking about mental well-being on this episode and how it relates to adventure and I'm very very interested to find out.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: what Isaac has to share in that regard.
1:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very important subject that probably needs to be explored a little bit more frequently.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So Isaac has swam seas, climbed mountains, road oceans, cycle-tourd countries, and even cycled over sea.
1:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He means literally cycling on the water.
1:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to find out what that is.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Isaac, welcome to the program.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much, Kurt, for a great warm introduction.
1:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a lot in that bio, but I'll just say a really simplified thing about why I'm about.
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to empower people to connect with the environment and protect the mental health of themselves and the planet.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that simple.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: All those things are listed out all channels to that one thing.
1:54
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a beautiful triad right there.
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So say that again.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Three things.
1:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Empower people.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: to protect and connect and be part of the environment to protect and help other people's mental well-being and in turn the planetary well-being as well.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's beautiful.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
2:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So, goodness, let's go into some of the big adventures that you've done.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're gonna come back to your keynote speaking and what you're doing to encourage other people.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but I wanted to highlight some of these adventures.
2:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Swamsees, give us some examples of that.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Saving from England to France, was nice.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Just just in your small speed days.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's right thing that embracing the cold and the jellyfishes,
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: and hopefully being allowed to touch France land.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the hardest part was making sure that my passport was checked on the boat as I was saying.
2:55
[SPEAKER_00]: being allowed to actually touch dry ground on the other side.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a heck of an achievement.
3:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Climb to mountain.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: What are your mountaineering?
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I do some mountains that I feel didn't really have a path.
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I just go for it.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I just create my own path and try and get to the normal something.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The ones that people know about Kilimanjaro things like this, which are good fun.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But I generally like to find the offbeat in parts and try to work out the puzzle myself.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because sometimes when the past laid out for you, it's not so challenging because it's been laid out.
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So I quite like just trying to navigate something else.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's cool.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm going to throw in there for those that are interested.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Colorado, where I am has fifty eight or fifty four, fourteen thousand foot peaks.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It depends on how you count them.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But it has over seven hundred peaks that are over thirteen thousand feet.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've been climbing Fort Teeners for most of my life, but I switched to climbing Thirteeners for the reason that you just highlighted Isaac.
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The Fort Teeners have well laid out paths, and they're frequented by a lot of people, they're quite popular.
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And for good reason, it's a wonderful experience.
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you go to a third teamer, if there is a trail, it's almost faded out.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to pick your own route and you're in charge of your own safety.
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: No one's there holding your hand and telling you where to go left or right.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You literally have to use mountaineering skills.
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And many of the third teamers, they're actually, um, they're more eroded than the four teamers.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: which means they're often a little bit more precipitous, more technical, you know.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is there's something beautiful Isaac about picking your own route.
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more adventurous.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's far more adventurous and it also challenges you in ways that a route that's already laid out for you will never challenge you.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a mountain leader and I take people off the pass.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: In a safe way and it's a very empowering, you know, when you
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Come off the path and you can read a map and you can read the landscape and understand where you're going and where you are.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That sort of thing is some people get very scared in these sort of environments like the mountain.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Without their phone and GPS signal, when you've got a paper map of the compass, it's totally different game.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you understand that game, you become very confident out there.
5:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a different skill set, isn't it?
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a different skill set.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a three-day thinking.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also risk management.
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with a path, the risk is already decided for you, right?
5:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone's already done with this management.
5:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to do it for own risk management.
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And with adventure, I think when you get into adventure, the depth of adventure is about risk.
6:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, life is always about risk, life's one big adventure and it's, you know, a great game is to go off the path and see, you know, what risk can I take that safe for me and then, and then you're off on the journey.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I heard someone say that the magic happens just outside of your comfort zone.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I agree with that.
6:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That's been the experience in my life.
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want your life to progress, then you have to go beyond your comfort zone a little bit in a safe way, calculated risk, managed risk, but go beyond your comfort zone a little bit.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And that can be in business.
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be in relationships.
6:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be in challenging yourself to learn.
6:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be an adventure in nature and all the things that we love to do.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's that stretching.
6:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that little bit of challenge that I think is the Simon Song for me.
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It calls to us, right?
7:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But hopefully not to dash ourselves on the rocks.
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But so we've covered mountains briefly.
7:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You've wrote oceans.
7:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
7:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us about that.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, big expedition, I did in twenty, twenty actually, I think it was twenty-nineteen even.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I was growing from the group of Canary Islands, one particular Canary Island was called Lagamera in just off the west coast of Africa and I wrote a cross from there to one of the Caribbean Amtils Antibra.
7:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did a three thousand years old Romero
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: going from one constant to the other.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was very fun.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really, really a big immersive nature experience.
7:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I learned a lot about myself on that journey.
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably more so than a lot of the other explanations I've done.
8:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's something else.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I visited with a few people that have wrote across oceans and every time I hear those stories, I'm kind of mind blown.
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of the reason is because I'm more of the mountain guy.
8:14
[SPEAKER_00]: you know I've had lots of experiences in the mountains and I know what I know what blizzards are and avalanches are and I know what clipping out means and I know what the weather risks are and how to navigate those things in hypothermia and okay in the mountains I'm I'm I'm set but you put me on the ocean it's like I've gone to another planet it's a foreign environment for me oh it is a foreign environment yeah and the sea is very unforgiving just like the mountain can be
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm a rock guy, I'm a geologist, background, and very in touch with nature from the timeline perspective of the feelings of years.
8:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I've always been landmarks loving geology and rocks.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So this really for me was quite a step to go and do maritime stuff like swimming being the channel and doing the ocean row.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something about the sea that really calls.
9:12
[SPEAKER_01]: for adventure for me because it's outmite.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to come back to that one.
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But we have to find out what cycling oversee is.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of a water bike.
9:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me picture in the listeners and minds what this contraction is.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a picture over your shoulder.
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is, yeah, you can see it there.
9:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got two elongated fendor floats.
9:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of that sits a spinning bike, like you would have in the gym.
9:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And what you have is a drive chain that is connected to a propeller underneath the spinning bike.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're pedaling a drive chain which then turns a propeller between sort of the two elongated floats that you're floating on.
9:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very, very, I would say, exposed.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: above this, see you're quite high and you do need to very carefully choose when you are going to cross seas and how you're going to do them and what waves and wind and conditions.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those sort of things you need to really know.
10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: A bit like when you go man's nearing and you go off the path and you need to kind of know what's the weather doing and when do I need to turn around and you need to do the same game on the sea for this.
10:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it kind of has a camera and set up, which probably helps a lot with stability, but it looks like the center of gravity is high.
10:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a wave could really do mischief with that thing.
10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it can.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got to be, I would say, careful about how you can when you use it.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually crossed one of the most dangerous title streams in the whole of Europe.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of crossings, it's claimed numerous ships and ship, as shipwreck everywhere.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We were cycling over water and we actually cycle past shipwreck.
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see that on the right day you can do it.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So the day we chose and the conditions we chose were very powerful and we did the planning right and we managed to do the first crossing of this kind in such a dangerous place.
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know that experience and you know that's what you're planning.
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Well okay.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to dive too deeply into the details yet, but it appears that it's not going to have a very high top speed.
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: How fast can you move with this?
11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: If anyone listening was aware of not speeding up in the water, not that's about, we can go up to five maximum, five knots.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, if you've got wind hitting you in the wrong way and things like you can quickly go to one knot.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're saying miles per hour.
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: One point, one five.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something like this.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not much.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we talk about kilometers per hour, it's not much.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: In back conditions, you're more likely to be push backwards.
12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of being on a balloon or water and just being pushed.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be like that if the conditions change in your favor.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it looks like a ton of fun.
12:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure about crossing a notion with something like that, but I could see some of the mountain lakes being fun to explore.
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they are.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, the mountain lakes, one of these, we did that.
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, our training we took it in lakes, but even the wind can be annoying off on the lake.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to use one of these, just know the sea states and when the tides are going to change the currents, all of that, you need to capture it all in because they are very light devices.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that way.
12:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fantastic.
12:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Isaac, I'm really enjoying this.
13:00
[SPEAKER_00]: There's obviously too much for us to cover in one episode here.
13:03
[SPEAKER_00]: If we wanted to go into each of these adventures, then we wouldn't have enough time.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But you do this for a reason.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not just for fun.
13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You found a good why for these exploits.
13:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So what is your why?
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So why is very, very much centered around
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: the connection we have with the planet and the way we dream the planet.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: To be honest, this is it.
13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Not many people realise, but we are connected with nature.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely everything we use comes from nature.
13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately, we don't value nature.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So we exploit the very things that have ecosystem services good for our wellbeing.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That everyone knows that when they go out for a walk in the outdoors in nature, they feel better.
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd never hear anyone say no to that.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do, I lie detector would probably beat.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I'm trying to say is that there's benefits that nature provides us, we don't value at the moment.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel that my world and what I do is on the frontline battle to put a value on nature and the earth provides all these systems and services.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, every single product and service that makes billions of pounds for these rich billionaires
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, all of that comes from nature and they never paid that back the real shareholder.
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the one who provided those services.
14:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So what ends up happening is our world around us starts to be depleted and the services that we rely upon such as well being services that's called it that when we go out and recreationally explore in the outdoors.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I think.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: or the food that we get from there.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that is being damaged and depleted because there is no reinvestment coming from the product and services that we create.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm in this world where I'm trying to promote curiosity to get people to feel the power of the outdoors.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go outside.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's challenge ourselves.
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what happens is they, you know, overcome a small challenge like I run five K in the park run through the forest.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the best day ever.
15:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And they say this to me.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, why was it the best day ever?
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, I just felt so free.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I got all these benefits.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, that's nature.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, and then once they get a connection, and then I say, well, there's this other world going on where we're exploiting nature and not replenishing it.
15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So not much of this may be less soon for everybody.
15:35
[SPEAKER_00]: you just you just highlighted Isaac something that I returned to over and over and over again and that is humans can abuse ecosystems and the environment and the planet but we're also a part of it and I believe it's when people get to know nature when nature becomes their friend their home even their warm hug
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: When people get to know nature, that's when they're better equipped to take care of nature.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: To make wise decisions and encourage other people to understand, I believe that humans can be a blight on the planet, but we can also be caretakers and stewards and custodians of this beautiful, beautiful gift that we've been given.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's through educating and connecting with nature that we best empower ourselves to do that.
16:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't believe we should keep humans out.
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what we need to do is invite humans responsibly into nature.
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So that they can make the decisions that need to be made.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I like to think longer term.
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: What about your children, your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, your great-great-great-grandchildren?
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what are we going to leave to them?
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that legacy?
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
16:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the hard questions that I don't think are often asked of people.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And people, here we go again.
16:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a bit like adventure people stay away from those questions because they're uncomfortable.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And adventuring getting outdoors is a bit of this comfort, but we've been so and feel better after having done it.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nothing like earning that feeling, right?
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Rather than just getting given that feeling.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think when you go outdoors and you do something that it's slightly a little value comes in a bit hard.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: If I come to what's the first or when you're a TV, you feel very, very good.
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And it feels much better than scrolling or something and getting that same hit of dopamine through a like or something on wine.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where it is.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a lot of distractions at the moment.
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I call it a lot of noise, but what we've built are human devices that we've created from natural resources to occupy ourselves have become noise and distractions that are creating a disconnect with us and the very things that actually keep us alive on this planet.
18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And that disconnect is where I believe my work is I'm trying to reduce the disconnect.
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Mason gravelly, I've heard of say it multiple times.
18:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to pick up the torch and say it.
18:15
[SPEAKER_00]: He says when you get on to social media and you start doom scrolling is what we call it.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: it's kind of like grabbing a bag of barbecue potato chips and one or two tastes really good but the next thing you know if you're not careful you've eaten the whole bag and you just feel sick and that's what social media can do you know it sucks you in it's hypnotic and when you when you realize you've lost forty five minutes an hour or even longer and you don't feel good you know your mind doesn't feel good your your emotions don't feel good but when you go into nature
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You get the the kick that you need and it does feel good.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You feel better when you're done than when you started.
18:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, if you had that in two hands, pick hand, uh, your might right handle, pick left hand and you get this sort of the same benefits in the first five minutes, but after an hour, the benefits increase in the right hand in nature and the benefits decrease in the left hand and socially, which one you're going to choose?
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: If I tell you tell you how it is, people are going to choose the right hand.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe some people don't know about the right hand option because the disconnect.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I heard someone explain this the other day in a way that it was new to me and that was earned fun versus like given fun or put on you fun.
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: When we sit down in front of a screen to be entertained, we're being fed whatever they're going to feed us and it takes no effort.
19:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, you go out into nature.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, I'm going to move my body, whether that's a walk around the block or running five K or running a marathon or climbing a mountain or whatever it's going to be.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The earned fun ends up being more meaningful and life changing.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when you go home,
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: after like a hard day at work on the screen.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you spend a weekend outdoors.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Two weeks later, you say, would you remember of that week?
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone talks about the weekend.
20:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: No one would talk about that one day indoors on the screen.
20:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Very, very well said.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk a little bit about rowing.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, across the Atlantic.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a similar route actually, the Christopher Columbus took.
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he did.
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He did.
20:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's used the trade wind, the famous trade wind, again, to blow him across.
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Very, very out strategic and useful for us as an Asian road.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, tell us about this whole expedition.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds fascinating to me.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how it all came about, I was very much in the position of the student at the time.
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I was masters degree level student.
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, I was coming out of actually a very bad mental health crisis.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I had very, very bad mental health.
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll tell you why.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in doors way too much and I was rolling and I was not taking care of myself, not exercising, not going up.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I basically did everything that is not good for my wellbeing.
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I changed my lifestyle to be more outdoors, focus and sports and things like that and everything came back together.
21:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the notion of doing so, I kind of really hard to stay focused on
21:50
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, getting outdoors being, um, which we call it, uh, consistent with my exercise outdoors climate.
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wasn't consistent and I kept fighting myself, being pulled back into the screens and pulled back in because I was doing a course and it was all on like, you know, it's not all on the right, but my work was all on the right.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I kept finding it easier and easier to put off the outdoor.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought I need something that's so loud.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That would just like complete rewire me.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And this expedition came up.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw some people had done it.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just thought that is massive.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I commit to this, I have to commit to this.
22:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Or else I won't be able to do it.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I created this huge goal of ruining the ocean.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Just so I could get myself outdoors and sport doing sports in public.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a team together and we were basically four different individuals that had slightly different reasons for doing this thing.
22:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was quite complex and I always say to people that sometimes it's easier to do things on your own.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's doing a team, especially if the team is not gel, then not going towards the same goal.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be a horrible experience and the worst adventure.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at value that.
23:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you have a good team that everyone's aligned and it's working well and you'll know what you're here for and the real reasons for doing so and your respect to others reasons you try to work together and it could be a really powerful compassionate team.
23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So brought this team together and it took four or five iterations to get the right team to do this thing.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I had them about three or four different team members.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I was no expert at this point with team psychology.
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just out for university.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know what I was doing, but I was building a team.
23:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, who do I want to be on the boat with for forty days?
23:49
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a number of people I just, after a while, I just found like, I could feel like a trust them on the boat with my life.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: and they had totally different goals and it just didn't fit.
24:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So it took a while to get there.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually we got the team and I always believed competence can be learned.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, whenever starts or is born confident, your born is a baby or constantly learning.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any skill I believe can be developed as long as you don't have some form of real like psychological about learning difficulty perhaps.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do believe any skill can be developed if you are born naturally with no disability.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had never wrote before.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I have never been a sea before in a like a sailing setting.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't understand sailing or maritime.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I also hadn't done anything multi day endurance like this before.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was a huge, huge challenge on my shoulder.
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You took the leap.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know how largely pause really until I did it and I look back on it.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, it felt like I was so desperate of my poor mental health that I needed something so radical to kind of push me out of this hole.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: This was one of the ways I did it.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: This doesn't work for everyone.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I know friends who also tried to do it and it didn't work for them.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But I needed something in my personal plan was, I needed something that was really forward looking that would, but I can work towards.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I did is I saw this huge audacious goal and I worked backwards.
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I need to get there?
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So I knew that I wasn't skilled at anything to do this.
25:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no boat skills, no navigation at sea skills, they see survival skills, no endurance skills.
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to learn all of this.
25:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I wanted to build a team of people who had skills.
25:44
[SPEAKER_01]: who could help mentor and bring me forward with it.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a really key thing for anyone listening, that sometimes you feel, are I mean capable of doing that?
25:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, until you meet someone who teaches you how to do it, or shows you something, or helps you along the way.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It can become very achievable when you start building people like that around you.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do believe that's why entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, they sort of people like,
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, they eat loans and all of those people.
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They have these audacious goals and they just think, well, all I have to do is work backwards from them and I'll find people who can help you get there.
26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's exactly the sort of process I took for this Atlantic road.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge goal, worked backwards, found the right people to get me there and then we make it happen.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But in doing so, there was a lot of resilience learning about myself, why I am capable of where not to play with fire, that sort of thing.
26:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a lot of life lessons around adventure at Team Dynamics.
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: People change.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: and you've got to adapt and that's all thing.
26:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was always big fears of the unknown, which I believe is always in everyone's, but everyone's got like a fear of unknown in some way, in something where they're thinking of that they're putting off.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that really came out of this Atlantic road was that, unduring belief inside that the fear of the unknown is only going to make me stronger.
27:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that as soon as I was scared of something, I was like, great.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something in this.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna get the diamond in the rough air.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna find it.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always think like, it's a bit like, yeah, you hear people like David Goggins all the time.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So as you see something that's hard or we feel something hard, he's like, okay, it looks like I'm gonna be here for a while.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, time to lock in on this.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not that
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not that far, but I definitely believe in if it scares you, you're doing the right thing a bit.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: If it scares you to petrified, maybe not.
27:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it scares you enough that, like, your curious, then it's probably the right thing.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the curiosity needs to be there.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had that with the Atlantic road.
28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't so scary that I was petrified, but it was scary enough I was curious to find out more.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, watching a film.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much to unpack there.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to talk more about your experience specifically, but at the same time, if I did, putting together the right team, priceless.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: As a, in years past, I tended to try to do everything solo.
28:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I can do this.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I can figure out all sides of this.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You will find out that even if you could learn how to do all sides of a venture,
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't do it all because you don't have enough time.
28:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was employed by an entrepreneurial company many years ago, and I asked the CEO, I said, what's the secret to your success?
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just looked at me, says, well, hire people smarter than I am and get out of their way.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I do it.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, yeah.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think the people would find things much less scary if they knew that they had the right team to work with.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're starting out on something for the first time, have a little team around you that supports you.
29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you're the one doing it on your own, the support team is very valuable.
29:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I tested this myself with another adventure.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I decided that I was going to do a Iron Man.
29:34
[SPEAKER_01]: with a weighted vest.
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did it.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I did it with a weighted vest, a fifteen kilogram weight vest that did the floor in my name.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the first time anyone's any duck done that, I, you know, it's basically crazy.
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why these would do it.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I did it because I wanted to create something so low, but see what I would
29:54
[SPEAKER_01]: be like if I was on my own and I just realised that the implications of being on your own is something like that was horrendous and I had I literally had to bring a support team in for safety there was just no way you know way you jump into water with that thing on and some goes wrong with that so that's like thirty three pounds yeah it's crazy yeah I can't imagine swimming with that much way to my on my body
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean every strike felt like you were doing a dumbbell press.
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: because you're lifting a little weight to the vest with your arm, your shoulder, like you're lifting it with your shoulder a bit.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to put the other stroke in.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And every time you turn, you know when you're swimming, you kind of turn, rotate.
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The rotations are even more crazy because the weight is on you.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have a more vigorous turn here.
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to have a very strong corner.
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I built up a very strong corner for this and managed to do it all.
30:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a really tough challenge, but what I was trying to get at the point was
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: in teams, you can fast track and reduce risk so quickly.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: On your own, the risk is so much higher and it might paralyze you from doing anything.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I find I've spoken so many people got the lovelyest and best ideas and they dream big and they want to go out alone and then they paralyze and they don't move because they're trying to do it all themselves and you sometimes you just see like too much time, too much learning to do
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: too much money, too much this, too much that, and these like objections for you achieving your dream become bigger if you tried to go out alone.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The fastest way to achieve dreams is to get one.
31:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, by far, you know, there are many many many instances where one plus one equals far more than two.
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have found that to be the case.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect example is let's just say you're you're doing some sort of a building project and you need someone to hold the board.
31:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so you can, so you can nail it or cut it or screw it or whatever it is.
31:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I only have two hands and I need three.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So suddenly two people are, it's just remarkable how the team is like that.
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They're things you don't do alone.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I started with really small beginnings when I was doing this Atlantic Ray.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just very much like going for walks with people.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, I was indoors.
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to start getting outdoors first before.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Even doing the Atlantic Ray.
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So I started going for walks on my own in nature and then with people in nature and it literally started from walks.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I eventually built myself up to do the Atlantic Ray.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't
32:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like an easy task.
32:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to do very small, tiny habitual tasks, tiny increments, and over time they compounded and pounded and pounded and pounded.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in the point where I could call myself an endurance athlete, but rode across the Atlantic Ocean.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty cool.
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's very, lots of small steps.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I started from pretty much no, like a very low level.
33:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just built and built and built and built and built.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's much more achievable when you do tiny steps.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So how long did it take to get across three years?
33:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Three years from the moment of deciding to do it.
33:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry.
33:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good question too.
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Three years to get to the point that you could start.
33:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And then four days.
33:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really short days.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always say tell people like the percentage of time of the actual challenge was probably only five percent.
33:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I call the whole challenge three years, you know, when I talk about the adventure, I say the adventure was three years.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Who said, what do you mean three years?
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It was only four today.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, the adventure started when I just committed to doing it.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: At that point, that I'm on the journey.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And the journey doesn't finish until it gets the other side and it's finished.
33:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was three years.
33:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And people sometimes don't get that.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They think the event was just the forty day part or the expedition there.
34:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually know some of the hardest parts were before the expedition.
34:08
[SPEAKER_01]: some of the biggest challenges of the adventure was before the expedition.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard something parallel expressed as she was an overnight success after ten years of hard work.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Because everyone sees the moment of glory when it all comes together, but they don't know what went into that.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm really liking a lot more of these adventure athletes, documentaries, where people were showing the full story from the start.
34:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm starting to really like those because now it's it's showing that these things are achievable and it does take tiny steps and habits and you get there and I think some of the reasons why people maybe feel like oh they're not an adventurer or they can't do adventurers because they think they have to do something big but any documentary that shows these people do very small things first
34:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they even scale up to the big thing.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm liking that.
35:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And also my this podcast episode, I'm saying that.
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I started from very small beginnings in terms of my outdoors.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, the wild records and the crazy water biking across the, you know, rowing this and that all came after incremental small steps.
35:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And how did that impact?
35:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't change your life at all, did it?
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it did.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I was pretty much on the way out if I am to be honest.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really want to be on the planet anymore when I was in my is it university.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to live multiple lives because it's going really well.
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep it coming, it's great.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, exactly, but yeah, it was a huge transformation.
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I like to say my story because there's a lot of people a bit like me.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the outdoors could help them.
35:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's the reason Isaac for the Adventure Sports podcast.
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the motivation.
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I realized after running the show for a little period of time, the potential that it had to help people to find out that you can do things you may have thought impossible and the audacious goal can transform your whole experience.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it doesn't always have to be massive as well.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be small too.
36:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I've done massive adventures, and then I've done small ones straight afterwards.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That were equally in my mind, challenging when I decided to do them.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like horse riding.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Horse riding was very scary.
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I hated that.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: If I gave it a go, and it felt quite challenging, just like, Atlantic road for me.
36:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you talked about the incremental consistent habits, you know, forming a habit that's consistent.
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people get caught up in, like, I have to run three miles every day for the next six months so that I'll be able to do XYZ or, you know, or maybe they don't even have a reason other than running the distance every day for six months.
37:23
[SPEAKER_00]: For others, that's not enough.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like enough on days one through five, but somewhere around day six through tin, it's not enough anymore.
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
37:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I encourage people to find something that they really love to do that will draw them into movement and into improving one's health and improving one's mental state.
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, find something that calls to you that that will draw you forward and that might be the audacious goal or it might be something more along the lines of I really love it when I get to go sit in the park for thirty minutes.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and that that feeling that I get from having gone to the park is worth getting me out the door to go to the park.
38:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so anyway, there can be all different levels of achievement and accomplishment.
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't have to be huge.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It just needs to be meaningful.
38:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's so like meaningful thing.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You've heard of flow.
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You've heard of things that they talk about.
38:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Floating from so many different activities.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always think about flows this sort of, you're totally absorbed.
38:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You're in this peak concentration, you're just doing what you love.
38:55
[SPEAKER_01]: in a steep happiness, time just, just starts to just disappear, time to split, oh yeah, just don't know what the time is.
39:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was think like, there's a lot of people who do dance arts, you know, arts painting, or they do sports like me.
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And most people can find something and outlet.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I often ask of those people, if you could do whatever that is that you're happy, is there a way you could do it outside?
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And most of them will all say, yeah, I said, great, because then you can get the scientific benefits as well as doing what you love.
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also get the indoor fins were being outside the serotonin from being outside all the happy brain chemicals as well.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So I met someone who loves just painting, doing painting and I remember and they started to paint outdoors because they got both the joy of the painting and the outdoor
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Endorphins and happy brain chemicals at the same time.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty interesting how you said, oh yeah, just go to the park and sit down or something like that.
40:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you like to do.
40:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would encourage anyone.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do have a hobby like this, that would be interesting.
40:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The only, the only one I found very tough is that the people who just love gaining and playing the games, you know, the virtual games and all this sort of thing.
40:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just say, well, the outdoors is very good because it can reset your concentration so you can go back to the game better than you are.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, there's a little benefit for everyone and whatever hobby you do.
40:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I've found ways to make.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: an outdoor experience much like the game I mean take my mountain biking for instance if you're screaming down a single track trail with drops and curves and sand pits and sticks and tree roots and you have to make every corner because if you don't the penalty can be pretty punishing you know that's very much like a video game except you're outside and you're breathing and you're moving and it's real and there's sweat that's dripping in your eyes and the wind is in your hair and
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: you know it's like oh it's it's like a video game only wait a minute it's not virtual anymore yeah well I was in these storms twenty foot rolling waves massive winds in the Atlantic row and it was so surreal I felt like I was in a game
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, this is crazy.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this real?
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like fighting all this wind and rain and the waves were so big and we were going up like rollercoaster.
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we get to the top and we get launched by the wave going like twenty knots or something like this.
41:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It was mad.
41:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I came out the back of that.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, there's no
41:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Game, that can replicate this game, but I didn't know.
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That was crazy.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I enjoyed it so much, and I will never forget it.
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the thing that, you know, these are the experiences that I take with me.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes.
41:58
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not many video games like Remember.
42:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Were there times in your Atlantic row that you didn't want to go anymore?
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just like, why did we sign up for this one?
42:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is times like that, but then I was quite strong with my Y anyway, and I had it written down, so I could just refer to it.
42:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did have it in my head later times.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But, oh my God, I don't think my knees can handle this anymore, because they all just kept hitting the knees.
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can form, I just had knees or like my knees and my chin's just bruised because what happens is the orgasm is the wave in the wrong way and then it jumps and hits you knee.
42:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was just like, hit the holes that I was like, I don't think I can do this anymore.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you realize you just have to say to why am I here and you just ask why you're here and if you got strong, why?
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: and it will work out for you.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there was someone on our boat, didn't have a very strong wife and I won't name who it is, but he very much hated the experience and struggled a lot because he didn't know really what he was doing before.
43:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had great conversations about why we were doing it and it was all very well aligned.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: This person obviously wasn't truly authentic in his why to us.
43:16
[SPEAKER_01]: and it came on the boat and then it won't revel.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And in other nature can do that.
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It can strip you to your bare bone and it can make you question why you're here.
43:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And that experience if you come out of that can be the most powerful thing in the world.
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You can lead strip down to your most vulnerable self and really question what your goals are and you come out of that question with something.
43:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you that is all you need for the rest of your life.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Very well said, Isaac.
43:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Very well said.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very, very insightful.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm waiting for my friend to came off the road to find that moment, but he seems not, he seems to avoid it.
44:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's where some people are.
44:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The hope it comes.
44:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, in it can come for anyone.
44:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think of it this way.
44:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have different things that bring meaning into our lives, different values that we feel like are worth working hard for and promoting for others.
44:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And they won't always align with what other people are thinking.
44:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But he'll find his why.
44:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a matter of finding what matters and realizing I'm just going to throw this out there because I think it's so important.
44:39
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a few things, some isms that really get in our way, right?
44:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And narcissism is one.
44:48
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're doing everything for your own glory, it's probably going to feel hollow in the end anyway.
44:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I really believe that, and I elism is one of the worst.
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Nialism says that we don't matter and we're not of any value and life is just a cosmic mistake somehow, you know, and that's so dark.
45:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that some Nialists out there were too well, there's more to do it than that.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe in nihilism.
45:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that every single person is contributing to the spacetime continuum and others in ways that they don't even appreciate.
45:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And that we're all making a difference.
45:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can make a negative difference or you can make a positive difference and you get to decide.
45:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you decide to just be a parasite, then yeah, life's going to suck.
45:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you find your why,
45:35
[SPEAKER_00]: you realize what you value and that you can make a positive contribution that might last for centuries afterwards.
45:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not some illusion of grandeur.
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the impact that you're having because it's generational.
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that you say might strike a chord with someone who shares it with someone who shares it with someone and some great grandchild somewhere's life has changed because of an impact that you had seventy eighty hundred years ago.
46:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you don't know what a beautiful thing you're doing, then start doing
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: because you're valuable in your worth it.
46:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do believe in do.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: When you have movement or you're doing something, there is a consequence.
46:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a consequence in not doing.
46:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: People forget that.
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to do this because the risk is so high, but then it's the risk of not doing it higher than the risk of doing it.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the question I always leave some plans.
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a double check where you chosen the right part of it.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to do that with myself sometimes because when I was younger, I didn't realize that backhanded question and it really makes you think, should I stay put or should I move?
46:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And if the risk of staying put is worse than the risk of moving, then surely you should do the move.
46:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very well said too.
46:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's how the nomadic Neanderthals or our ancestors lived, you know?
47:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they kept moving.
47:04
[SPEAKER_01]: They would move if the risk of staying was worse than the risk.
47:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what I mean?
47:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably innate in us, but we don't quite maybe question it in them.
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, neuroticism is actually a personality trait.
47:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's part of what defines who we are.
47:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at the the ocean personality test or the big five, some people call it that neuroticism is a part of that.
47:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But when people are hyper neurotic, then not doing feels safer than taking a risk.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But I really do believe that that's something that we can grow in.
47:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a trait that we can learn more about and quite often taking action is what saves you.
47:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels safe to stay in the known, but it's the unknown that will save you.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I've had so many experience, I won't experience just as point of illustration.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on a capitol and I got off trail.
48:01
[SPEAKER_00]: A capitol is a fairly dangerous Fort Tina.
48:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It claims quite a few lives.
48:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Somehow I got off trail and as I was crossing this cool, our full of loose rock, it triggered a rock slide over a multi-hundred foot cliff.
48:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you sit down at that point and try to grab something,
48:19
[SPEAKER_00]: the not doing is what that is, but the whole world is moving underneath you and you're going to die.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So the only thing you can do is take the risk of running through the tumbling boulders until you find solid ground to stand on.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I ran through the tumbling boulders and I lived because sometimes action is what saves you.
48:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't always know or we don't always have the ability to see what the outcome will be of the action that we take.
48:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But quite often, if you don't take the action, that's when you're going to find yourself in a world of hurt.
48:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm talking too much here, Isaac, let's get back mental well being.
49:03
[SPEAKER_00]: you you've stressed that over and over again on your website it was in the information you sent me you just talked about how in your own journey you were in a very dark place mentally but how do you help people to find the mental state that they need to live a more joyful life to be more productive to to enhance team performance I mean all these sorts of things what is that about for you
49:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why it's important for me to help people to have good state of mental wellbeing is that the question?
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay.
49:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why it's important for helping people have a good state of mental wellbeing is because if people have a good state of mental wellbeing, they turn up their best selves.
49:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They also care and are able to give to others and they're also able to give to the planet back.
49:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So if one person is mentally ill, they're incapable of giving or doing or helping anyone or anything.
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They become effectively, I don't want to say it, it's blunt but useless, it's a, you know, you're useless.
50:13
[SPEAKER_01]: In a sense that you're just stuck here, when I was ill, mentally ill, I felt like I just couldn't do or
50:21
[SPEAKER_01]: give or anything.
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And when someone asked me for a favor, like, go, can you go to the shop to get this thing?
50:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a huge deal for me, which it shouldn't have really been a huge deal, but I made it like a mountain and it was just too much to compare.
50:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I would just have a fit and say no.
50:40
[SPEAKER_01]: What I believe is if we can help people who have poor mental well-being, to come back into a good state of well-being, they become the guardian angels that we discussed right at the beginning of the podcast to help others and the world be the custodians of the planet.
50:57
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the reason why I care about it.
50:59
[SPEAKER_01]: because we can only help if we have the ability to help.
51:02
[SPEAKER_01]: If your hindered by mental health issues, you just cannot, you have no ability to help.
51:07
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why I don't understand why corporations still try to get people to work when they're mentally ill.
51:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That work is going to be awful because that totally unable to deliver.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: because they're not thinking straight, they're not focused, they're, you know.
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So my view is destroying the safe stigma of, you know, we should be allowed to say things are not going well for me.
51:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not feeling so good.
51:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I need some time.
51:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I need some help.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This should be commonplace.
51:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We should be able to just say, you know, because ultimately, our society is only as strong as the weakest link, yeah?
51:43
[SPEAKER_01]: In any team, you're any stronger as your weakest link.
51:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe the world is every single human is a big team.
51:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We're one big team.
51:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've got mentally ill people, then as a society, we are impacted by this.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So we should help these mentally ill people, or mental health, ones with mental health issues, maybe they're not mentally ill, but they have mental health issues.
52:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We should help them.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm very much for nature being a very good restorative environment for people who've mental health issues.
52:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I always promote people to, you know, try and go for a short walk outside and stuff like that, just to give them minds of brain and to give them the clarity of thought, get some of those happy brain chemicals that you get from the sun and the endorphins of moving outside, which will then fight back against the issues maybe you have with your mental health.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of our
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: mental health issues come from stress and overworking and not taking care of ourselves.
52:39
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot we can do as individuals like you and I and we're sharing on the podcast and simple things that you could do.
52:48
[SPEAKER_01]: to get healthy one of which is just go outside for walks in a park, take something that you love to do and go and take outside, that's the thing.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I do believe in a better healthier, better healthier society of people, a more prosperous and healthier society will live in and plan it.
53:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The other day my son went, um, canoeing.
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It was fishing and he saw an offspring and a bald eagle fighting over a fish in the air.
53:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And he came home saying, wow, dad, this was such an amazing thing.
53:27
[SPEAKER_00]: These, these two birds, you know, they're fighting over this fish and it was, and I said, what if you had stayed home and decided not to go?
53:36
[SPEAKER_00]: He wouldn't have that experience.
53:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And you wouldn't remember what happened that day at all.
53:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
53:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And also that that's with mental health mental health as well.
53:47
[SPEAKER_01]: If we don't take action with our call mental health, we lose it.
53:52
[SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to mental well being and this is again, the analogy.
53:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I stay or do I move?
54:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Take action.
54:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes when it comes to poor well-being, if we don't take action, the risk of not taking action is our lives.
54:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And that action can be very small and very, very small.
54:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It can literally be a phone call for someone and just saying, look, things aren't going well.
54:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I really need to speak to you.
54:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Just something super small and simple like that is all that's required to
54:26
[SPEAKER_01]: get you out of really bad situation.
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that is really, I would say, holding people back is the fear of showing weakness.
54:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So in a lot of organizations, there is sort of a stigma of, I don't want to be seen as weak.
54:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to lose my job.
54:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They think, really, they think, if I say, I haven't been to a health issue, suddenly I'm a weaker person, I'm not fit for work.
54:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to get rid of me and I'm going to lose my livelihood and my money and everything I need for my mortgage and my, you know, and then they will never tell the truth to anyone.
55:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas, unfortunately, in places in the UK, we have charities and I think maybe there's some charities and stuff.
55:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But for talking to people, I would urge anyone who's feeling unwell in any way mentally to start a conversation with, you know, maybe a mental health charity or
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: just a friend or somebody to get the ball rolling because often more than than not if you don't take action the result in end is always worse and there's statistics to prove it and there's people like me who took action and now I'm living my best in thriving yes there is enough aside to it you don't have to
55:48
[SPEAKER_01]: that are rotten your own issues.
55:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You can, you know, shed the weight and get rid of that.
55:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, again, you have taking action, doing a movement.
55:57
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, it was getting outdoors and having this good coordination skull.
56:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But for some people, I know it's just talking to somebody.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, keep you on the positive.
56:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You, I'm going to highlight one thing you mentioned is that people are afraid of appearing not as strong as they want to appear.
56:20
[SPEAKER_00]: listeners, viewers, everybody goes to hard times.
56:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have moments when we struggle and in sharing your moment, you might be helping someone else too.
56:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of courage to admit that you're not up to snuff that day or that week or that year, whatever it is.
56:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you begin to admit, yeah, this is a challenge for me.
56:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to do.
56:47
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an artificial sense of a stigma attached to confessing that we're struggling.
56:57
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's those who take action and confess who actually find the greatest strength because their lives can get better again and they can be more productive and more joyful.
57:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But those who just wallow in that secret
57:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a dungeon that you stuck yourself in, right?
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of courage, but it might be time to raise your hand and say, hey, this isn't going well.
57:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I need some perspective, you know?
57:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think there should ever be a stigma attached to that.
57:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a matter of self-care.
57:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you have the courage and the strength to care for yourself, then you are a strong person.
57:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, just just adding as well to you, I think that's a really good description.
57:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be talking about when this point is.
57:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just wanted to say, like, on top of that, you are stronger once you have addressed the issue.
57:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
57:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You can, you can pretend that you're strong, hiding the issue.
58:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the, that's pretending.
58:06
[SPEAKER_01]: What if you could be actually be strong and deal with these
58:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so good.
58:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, there are so many things that I would like to continue to explore, like more of your mountaineering is swimming to France.
58:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, really?
58:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's mind blowing to me.
58:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that you're not the first to do it, but not many people have ever tried.
58:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And you did it.
58:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
58:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just... I've got to do some more swims as well.
58:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got my next ones.
58:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got some bigger oldacious stuff coming.
58:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's exciting.
58:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how can people learn more or stay in touch with you or find out while you're next?
58:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Big adventure is going to be Isaac.
58:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
58:51
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do want to stay in touch with anyone listening, you find me on social medias.
58:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a website called IsaacKenyon.com.
58:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then from there, actually, just pinpoint everything.
59:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can find the other, you know, the adventures I've done, and all of that sort of thing.
59:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably the hub.
59:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Just go to my website.
59:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Isaackingin.com and you also, what is this climate explorers CIC business?
59:20
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a community interest company pattern project I started which is developing a sort of a program which is to get people outdoors in touch with nature but also contributing to protecting and restoring it.
59:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a
59:37
[SPEAKER_01]: team building day with some element of sustainability leadership and connection with VR but also with connection with oneself.
59:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And in doing so we aim the venture, the goal is behavior change.
59:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Change of behavior to change our habits in a way that's positive for our own well-being and also the well-being of others and the planet.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a venture that is it's for good.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you do this with companies, organizations, clubs, I mean, who are you reaching out to?
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So at the moment, it's being companies.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And the goal is to have individuals, clubs, organisations.
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we have to fund it.
1:00:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're starting with the corporations first.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're going to be able to expand and develop something for everybody.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We want everyone to experience it.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got that's the mission statement of that venture.
1:00:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone to go on an eco adventure we call it.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What kinds of outcomes have you seen?
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So the main outcomes that we've seen is that people didn't realize they could just do this sort of volunteering and help the planet in this way.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you, some people think about, oh, I want to do something for the planet.
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know where to start.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And this experience actually helped you try some activities that you could start and also how easy it is to start.
1:01:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that is a really good outcome is that people find out a bit more about their why and a little bit more about what is important for their own well-being.
1:01:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So some people don't actually know what's good for their well-being.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_01]: They've never gone through a program or they've never learned about it and they actually maybe they try a few things with us and one or two things stick and that's great.
1:01:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We've introduced something new
1:01:36
[SPEAKER_01]: for you and your adventure, and you want to use it in your life as a tool or a habit, whatever, and it's helping you.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a good outcome for us.
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, that's fantastic.
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Isaac, thank you so much.
1:01:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I love what you're doing.
1:01:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it that you realize the need to pick yourself up and from that, you learn to wait to encourage others, and your adventures sound very, very fun.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But I love the way that you're using adventure to encourage other people, to make people more productive, to make companies more successful.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're giving back in a beautiful way.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And why don't you finish this off here with an inspirational statement about how it feels to be you doing what you're doing.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like that, an inspirational statement, how feel spinning, how I feel.
1:02:34
[SPEAKER_01]: is the person at the top of the mountain with his arm stretched down and lifting people up.
1:02:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good feeling.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I feel at the moment.
1:02:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a big part of your why I would imagine.
1:02:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, there's a lot.
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I see a lot of people who are unaware of what they're on the
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like I sometimes, you know, I'm figuratively lifting them above the surface so they can kind of see, you know, there's more to this.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You're shining your light and dark places.
1:03:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or something like that.
1:03:16
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how it feels.
1:03:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It does come across that.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very simple, really.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm trying to do because where I was brought up, there was a lot of darkness.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know any of these things.
1:03:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Somewhere along the way, I started seeing the light, the cheesy as it is, whatever.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I went into the light and discovered this whole way of life that is very different to what I thought.
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_00]: For all the viewers and listeners out there, you know,
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_00]: encourage people to go out with you.
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you're going to go on a hike, take someone with you that could use a good hike.
1:04:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I always think it out there and have some fun, but do it with someone else.
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Show someone else that they too can feel better and until the next show, get out there and have some fun.