Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Bryan Kohberger, Murder Suspect, Talks Down to Lady Cop

Transcript

Bryan Kohberger, Murder Suspect, Talks Down to Lady Cop · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease Bombshell. In the last hours.
0:14
Speaker 2: According to reports, police find what they believe is blood
0:18
Speaker 2: on multiple items inside Brian Coburger's Pullman apartment. Now here's
0:27
Speaker 2: the kicker. The apartment looks like someone professionally cleaned it out,
0:33
Speaker 2: wiped it down clean before cops could get in there.
0:37
Speaker 2: But blood doesn't lie this as a secret storage locker emerges.
0:45
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:47
Speaker 2: being with us here at Foxination and Serius X one eleven.
0:51
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger, the prime suspect of the murders of four
0:56
Speaker 2: beautiful Idaho University student. Yes, we are learning more and
1:02
Speaker 2: more about evidence police have amassed. Is it the student's
1:07
Speaker 2: blood in his apartment? Even when he cleaned that apartment
1:12
Speaker 2: meticulously wiping it down, tail tale blood.
1:16
Speaker 1: Drops remain behind? What do we learn? Again?
1:21
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. First of all, take
1:22
Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at crime Online.
1:25
Speaker 3: On the night of December thirtieth.
1:29
Speaker 1: Police department search work come to the door.
1:32
Speaker 3: Police searched Brian Coberger's apartment in Pullman, Washington. Only hours earlier.
1:37
Speaker 3: Coburger had been arrested across the country in the Poconos.
1:41
Speaker 3: According to documents, police found sixty reddish brown stains, two
1:45
Speaker 3: of which on a pillow and a mattress, tested positive
1:49
Speaker 3: for blood. Even if the blood does not belong to
1:51
Speaker 3: the four college students killed in Idaho, it could be
1:54
Speaker 3: useful to the prosecution if.
1:56
Speaker 4: It's the defendant's blood. Was it a result of the
2:02
Speaker 4: victims struggling with him?
2:04
Speaker 2: You are hearing Deficitorney John Waldron speaking to our friends
2:08
Speaker 2: at WFMZ and lore Here's Crime Online.
2:12
Speaker 5: Fifty items from Brian Coberger's apartment were tested by police.
2:16
Speaker 5: Two of those items, a mattress cover and a pillow,
2:19
Speaker 5: tested positive for blood in the presumptive chemical tests. There
2:23
Speaker 5: is a dark red spot on the kitchen counter near
2:25
Speaker 5: the sink, which could not be tested, but was collected.
2:28
Speaker 5: According to documents, to whom the blood belongs is not
2:32
Speaker 5: yet known. Not all of the tested items were seized
2:35
Speaker 5: by police. The other forty eight tested items, including stains
2:39
Speaker 5: on towels, swabs of bathroom sinks, and the shower drain,
2:43
Speaker 5: a microwave and pizza cutter, tested negative. More than a
2:47
Speaker 5: dozen items were seized, however, including the two betting items
2:50
Speaker 5: and the discoloration from the countertop.
2:52
Speaker 2: Why couldn't some of the blood be tested? To whom
2:56
Speaker 2: does it belong? And this I guess the backdrop of
2:59
Speaker 2: police believing the apartment was wiped clean.
3:05
Speaker 1: Take listen our friend's WFMZ.
3:07
Speaker 3: Other than the stains, police found barely anything in the apartment.
3:10
Speaker 3: Even the trash cans were empty. Waldron says even the
3:14
Speaker 3: lack of evidence left behind could be incriminated and could.
3:17
Speaker 4: Be argued by a prosecutor that he fled Washington. In essence,
3:23
Speaker 4: he had a consciousness of guilty.
3:25
Speaker 2: With me an all star panel to make sense of
3:27
Speaker 2: what we know right now. But first I want to
3:29
Speaker 2: go out to Laura Ingeld's senior investigative correspondent for Fox
3:35
Speaker 2: News Channel joining us and you can hear her whenever
3:38
Speaker 2: you want to on a brand new hit series Fox
3:43
Speaker 2: True Crime Minute.
3:45
Speaker 1: It's everywhere you get podcasts.
3:47
Speaker 2: Lauren, thank you for being with us and congratulations on
3:49
Speaker 2: your new hit True Crime Minute. Tell me about the
3:54
Speaker 2: blood that we think it's blood found at Coburger's Pull
3:59
Speaker 2: them an apartment. This is the apartment that's about ten
4:01
Speaker 2: minutes away from where the.
4:03
Speaker 1: Students were murdered. Many people believe in their sleep.
4:07
Speaker 6: Well, and you said it there too, Nancy. That's what
4:09
Speaker 6: we're waiting to find out that these tests will run.
4:12
Speaker 6: We know that some of these items have blood. It's
4:15
Speaker 6: confirmed to be a blood like substance, but we don't
4:17
Speaker 6: know whose blood. That is going to be so important
4:20
Speaker 6: and most likely going to hopefully be revealed at this
4:24
Speaker 6: preliminary hearing if we could get there in late June.
4:28
Speaker 6: But the number of tests that will run on the
4:30
Speaker 6: items found in this apartment, some did come back positive
4:33
Speaker 6: for blood stings. This is according to the court documents
4:36
Speaker 6: that were just released by Washington State University Police. They
4:40
Speaker 6: have not released who they belonged to, though. The stand
4:43
Speaker 6: on the mattress cover, a stand on a pillow inside
4:46
Speaker 6: the apartment testing positive for blood. But those other items
4:50
Speaker 6: that we've been so curious about, the sink, the shower drain,
4:55
Speaker 6: a curtain rod, the entry to a door, and sings
4:57
Speaker 6: under a coffee table and near a computer. They tested
5:01
Speaker 6: all of that, but they did not turn up any
5:04
Speaker 6: traces of blood. I think that there was hope that
5:07
Speaker 6: there was going to be some kind of DNA evidence,
5:10
Speaker 6: some kind of traceable evidence, that there was not.
5:13
Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCollums joining me.
5:15
Speaker 2: Forensics expert, Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder and director.
5:20
Speaker 2: You can find her at coldcasecrimes dot org and she's
5:22
Speaker 2: the star of a new podcast, Zone seven, which is awesome.
5:26
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, give me the bottom line on this.
5:28
Speaker 7: They threw luminol over that place, They used a light source,
5:32
Speaker 7: They probably use you know, chemical testing. They were looking
5:38
Speaker 7: for the smallest amount of evidence you can think of.
5:42
Speaker 7: So when you look at this scene and they tested
5:45
Speaker 7: over fifty things, if two came back as human blood,
5:50
Speaker 7: then you're going to concentrate now on those two. When
5:54
Speaker 7: we learn who's DNA those two, you know, small piece
6:00
Speaker 7: of evidence belonged to I think that's again, is what
6:03
Speaker 7: is going to connect him to the original murder scene.
6:06
Speaker 1: You know, as if there's not enough.
6:08
Speaker 2: But that said, you know, Cheryl McCollum, I love when
6:12
Speaker 2: a defendant does this massive cleanup. And I've always noticed
6:16
Speaker 2: how when people go missing or are murdered, suddenly the
6:21
Speaker 2: defendant turns into an eatneck.
6:24
Speaker 1: He's just got to run out to.
6:26
Speaker 2: Walmart or Target or wherever and buy three or four
6:30
Speaker 2: hundred dollars worth of cleaning supplies and they're always caught
6:33
Speaker 2: on camera and then they come home and they just
6:35
Speaker 2: start spring cleaning, you know, in the middle of a snowstorm.
6:41
Speaker 2: Now what's interesting here, Well, so much is interesting, as
6:44
Speaker 2: Laura Ingle lays it out, But the fact that the
6:48
Speaker 2: bagdrop is the whole apartment looks like it's been wiped down.
6:52
Speaker 7: It looks like it's been wiped down, and the shower
6:54
Speaker 7: curtain is missing. So again, if you're trying to take
6:57
Speaker 7: some bloody items out of the house, that would be
7:01
Speaker 7: a good way to do it, because something is not
7:02
Speaker 7: going to see through the shower curt you know.
7:04
Speaker 2: Joining me in addition to Laura England, Cheryl McCollum, Toby
7:08
Speaker 2: Woolson is joining us for as a consultant specializing in erology,
7:13
Speaker 2: DNA and bloodstained patterns. You can find Toby at Noslow
7:17
Speaker 2: Forensic dot com.
7:19
Speaker 1: Toby, thank you for being with us.
7:21
Speaker 2: You know, no matter how hard you try, you just
7:25
Speaker 2: really can't get rid of all the blood evidence.
7:29
Speaker 1: To the naked eye, you can't see it.
7:31
Speaker 2: Now, clearly you've got a criminal procedure major living in
7:36
Speaker 2: the apartment. He knows how to wipe down surfaces, he
7:40
Speaker 2: knows all about scorting four to nine and so forth.
7:43
Speaker 2: But unless you are using luminol, like Cheryl McCollum just suggested,
7:47
Speaker 2: you can't see it all.
7:49
Speaker 8: That's correct.
7:49
Speaker 9: Lumina has a screen sensetivity. Depending on which articles you read,
7:55
Speaker 9: it's one part per million is some of the highest civities.
7:59
Speaker 9: For the thing about cleanups is that you know you
8:03
Speaker 9: leave behind trace amounts, and luminol sensitivity will detect those
8:07
Speaker 9: trace amounts. But a luminol is also hampered by its
8:11
Speaker 9: cross reactivity with a lot of the agents that are
8:15
Speaker 9: in cleaning products. So what happens frequently when you're looking
8:19
Speaker 9: for a cleanup is rather than seeing the blood, you
8:22
Speaker 9: see all the swirls and everything from them cleaning up
8:25
Speaker 9: and the damage that's been done by mixing the blood
8:29
Speaker 9: with the cleaning products. But it is a very good
8:32
Speaker 9: search reagent if you're comfortable with it and have experience.
8:37
Speaker 2: With using it, do you, Cheryl McCollum, again, knowing that
8:40
Speaker 2: the apartment was wiped down seemingly by a pro he
8:45
Speaker 2: just imagined Toeburger. You know he's been studying criminal procedure,
8:49
Speaker 2: criminals themselves, criminal law. He's getting his pH d in
8:54
Speaker 2: the study of crime. Don't you know, he tried to
8:58
Speaker 2: wipe down every or if as he could.
9:01
Speaker 7: Right with that, some other mistakes could be made, for example,
9:06
Speaker 7: a missing shower curtain. That's going to be a red
9:09
Speaker 7: flag to anybody that would walk into that bathroom. If
9:13
Speaker 7: there's not a floormat, if there's towels that look like
9:16
Speaker 7: they're missing, if he bought a set, if there's sheets missing,
9:20
Speaker 7: if there's a pillow case missing. Because one of the
9:22
Speaker 7: stains that said was on a pillar that didn't have
9:25
Speaker 7: a pillow case on it, Well, I want to know
9:27
Speaker 7: where the pillow case is. So again, he might have
9:30
Speaker 7: noticed the pillow case had a stain, but he missed
9:33
Speaker 7: the pillar.
9:33
Speaker 2: Mark Tate joining us a high profile lawyer out of
9:36
Speaker 2: the Savannah jurisdiction who shot to national fame during the
9:40
Speaker 2: Alex Murdog trial. You can find him at the Tate
9:43
Speaker 2: Lawgroup dot com.
9:46
Speaker 1: Markin Tate.
9:46
Speaker 2: Don't you just hate it when your client goes home
9:51
Speaker 2: to his parents' house for Thanksgiving, Christmas break and he
9:55
Speaker 2: just has to take his own shower curtain with him.
9:57
Speaker 10: Well, you know it was always difficult, Charles.
10:00
Speaker 1: It takes his own commote everywhere.
10:02
Speaker 10: Okay, No, I understand it is difficult, and I know
10:05
Speaker 10: it was always difficult for me personally.
10:07
Speaker 1: I call it something else. I call it provative.
10:09
Speaker 2: You want to tell me once yourr is going to
10:11
Speaker 2: identify with taking your own shower, Curt, and I'm tominis.
10:13
Speaker 10: In no way. Now, this guy is in really bad trouble,
10:17
Speaker 10: and you know he has a public defender. I think
10:20
Speaker 10: she's got to obviously she's got a duty of fiduciary
10:23
Speaker 10: duty to her clienty the best you can, but this
10:25
Speaker 10: is really difficult. The things that are adding up that
10:30
Speaker 10: the prosecution has, Uh, this is just another arrow in
10:33
Speaker 10: the quiver that makes it so. I think the real
10:36
Speaker 10: question is whether it's this, you know, whether there's a
10:39
Speaker 10: death penalty case that that is going to be brought
10:42
Speaker 10: Because I'm not seeing any light of day. And that's
10:45
Speaker 10: the thing I really like to do, Nancy, that you know,
10:47
Speaker 10: is I like to find some kind of crack, some
10:50
Speaker 10: light of day through something that I can say, you know,
10:53
Speaker 10: maybe we can talk about this and defend what's going
10:57
Speaker 10: on here.
10:58
Speaker 1: When are you talking about that? That's not what I
10:59
Speaker 1: asked to take What are you talking about?
11:01
Speaker 2: I asked you, why would anybody take the shower Curt
11:03
Speaker 2: when they go home for Thanksgiving break.
11:05
Speaker 10: Oh, because they're guilty and they want to get rid
11:06
Speaker 10: of a freaky shower curtain.
11:08
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.
11:10
Speaker 2: You know that leads me too, And I'm sure by
11:12
Speaker 2: the time I come back to you going to come
11:13
Speaker 2: up with a theory, but I guess you're gonna say, Okay,
11:16
Speaker 2: I might as well put it out there. I would
11:18
Speaker 2: have had muld on I had to get rid of it.
11:19
Speaker 2: There's no way to clean that.
11:32
Speaker 1: Time stories with me. It's a grace.
11:35
Speaker 2: To Doctor Jeff Klashevski joining US forensics psychologist, author of
11:40
Speaker 2: Dark Sides. Doctor Jeff Klashevski, you can clean your apartment
11:47
Speaker 2: all you want to, and Laura Ingele, don't be shy
11:49
Speaker 2: for Pete's sake, jump in when you've got some tidbits
11:52
Speaker 2: of facts for me. Doctor Kawski, you can clean your
11:56
Speaker 2: apartment all you want to, but in my mind this
11:58
Speaker 2: guy is so e fact. In a few moments, I'm
12:01
Speaker 2: going to play sound of Coburger getting pulled over for
12:07
Speaker 2: edging into a crosswalk where people are crossing and he
12:11
Speaker 2: actually has the cop and tell me if I got
12:13
Speaker 2: this wrong, Laura engele, go look up the law, and
12:18
Speaker 2: you can hear him saying, well, from where I come from,
12:21
Speaker 2: you know this is not a crime, and I don't
12:23
Speaker 2: believe this is a crime, and actually asking the cop,
12:27
Speaker 2: the lady cop, to go get the law to show
12:29
Speaker 2: him that that was a crime.
12:31
Speaker 6: Listen, And this gives us another fliver of information about
12:35
Speaker 6: Brian Colberger himself, right, what he sounds like in this
12:39
Speaker 6: bodycam footage, how he behaves while under pressure or dealing
12:43
Speaker 6: with somebody of authority. Now, we've been hearing from people
12:46
Speaker 6: who know him in the weeks and months after the
12:48
Speaker 6: quadruple murders. They described him as someone who was constantly
12:52
Speaker 6: always showing people that he thought he was smarter than them.
12:55
Speaker 2: Hear that tape. You hear that tape. People don't like that. Okay,
12:59
Speaker 2: go ahead, I know it all.
13:02
Speaker 1: Go ahead.
13:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we heard that from everybody. Now, I went
13:06
Speaker 6: to Pennsylvania. I was outside of that jail where he
13:10
Speaker 6: was held the moment that he was arrested. We raced
13:12
Speaker 6: to Pennsylvania. I was there for a good five days
13:15
Speaker 6: and I can tell you from being in it is
13:17
Speaker 6: a rural area. But I'm sorry. There are crosswalks, and
13:21
Speaker 6: there are street lights and there are stop lights, and
13:26
Speaker 6: you know, we spent some time there. I hung out
13:28
Speaker 6: outside of his parents' gated community. While it is far
13:32
Speaker 6: back in the country, there are crosswalks and there are
13:37
Speaker 6: you know, normal things that you would associate. So anyway,
13:39
Speaker 6: his argument as I was listening to him, I listened
13:41
Speaker 6: to it several times, as I'm sure you have too,
13:44
Speaker 6: talking to the officer talking about the law, wanting to
13:47
Speaker 6: explain it. But the other side too, you can you
13:49
Speaker 6: can listen to that bodycam footage of him getting pulled over,
13:52
Speaker 6: and well, on one hand, it sounds like a guy who's,
13:55
Speaker 6: you know, trying to be super smart and trying to
13:57
Speaker 6: talk about the law, and it also sounds like a
13:59
Speaker 6: guy who's trying to get out of a ticket.
14:01
Speaker 2: Sounds like a world class a hole to me, But
14:04
Speaker 2: that's just me. Maybe you guys will interpret this differently.
14:08
Speaker 2: To daughter Jeff Kalischewski, if I'm sure that's not a
14:11
Speaker 2: proper psychological diagnosis of world class a hole. But I'm
14:16
Speaker 2: just really enjoying for the moment. Let me not from
14:20
Speaker 2: one for this moment, think about the four students who
14:24
Speaker 2: were slaughtered. Slaughtered many people believe in their sleep because
14:30
Speaker 2: right now, I want to think about Coburger and.
14:33
Speaker 1: How he is so anal.
14:35
Speaker 2: Remember when he was finally arrested at his parents' house
14:38
Speaker 2: in the Poconos, he was wearing plastic gloves, rubber gloves
14:42
Speaker 2: to take out the trash. Nothing could have made me
14:47
Speaker 2: happier except the fact that I believe he wiped down
14:51
Speaker 2: his entire apartment, took his shower curtain, got rid of it,
14:56
Speaker 2: but still left behind some blood.
14:58
Speaker 11: Well, if I can comment down nanswer, this is doctor Jeff.
15:02
Speaker 11: I've talked to a lot of people over the years
15:04
Speaker 11: who've meticulously planned crimes and tried to approach planning and
15:10
Speaker 11: pulling off a crime from sort of an academic perspective,
15:14
Speaker 11: and one of the things that usually trips them up is,
15:18
Speaker 11: for example, if they're going to plan a murder, this
15:21
Speaker 11: is the first murder they've been involved with, first murder,
15:24
Speaker 11: they've planned, first murder. Maybe they've they've they've done, but
15:29
Speaker 11: law enforcement has had lots of experience with murders. So
15:34
Speaker 11: a lot of times when I've seen people who've taken
15:36
Speaker 11: this real academic approach and studied police technique and investigative techniques,
15:42
Speaker 11: they will miss something because you can study this kind
15:46
Speaker 11: of stuff all you want, but experience is what's really important.
15:50
Speaker 11: So it doesn't surprise me that he would make mistakes
15:53
Speaker 11: along the way. Big mistakes like taking the shower curtain.
15:58
Speaker 11: That's beyond just cleaning your apartment. Big mistakes like take
16:01
Speaker 11: the pillowcase off a pillow with blood, but the pillow
16:05
Speaker 11: stays there. So even with all your academic study and
16:09
Speaker 11: your academic approach to planning and trying to pull off
16:11
Speaker 11: a crime, it won't trump the experience of seasoned investigators
16:16
Speaker 11: who are on crime scenes all the time.
16:19
Speaker 2: Dont Jeff Kelischewski, that was incredible what you just said, Hey,
16:23
Speaker 2: Mark Tate, isn't it the truth? Let me jump off
16:26
Speaker 2: what doctor Jeff Kelischewski just said. I remember going through
16:30
Speaker 2: law school thinking, oh, can I try a case?
16:33
Speaker 1: Will I be awful? Can I pull it off? Blah
16:35
Speaker 1: blah blah.
16:36
Speaker 2: I had all my law xeroxten ready and every question
16:41
Speaker 2: written out, which I did till the bitter end, by
16:43
Speaker 2: the way, but when you get in there to try
16:47
Speaker 2: a case, it is like nothing they can tell you
16:52
Speaker 2: in moot court I can tell you that much. Or
16:54
Speaker 2: trial advocacy, it's hand to hand mutual combat. And at
16:59
Speaker 2: the end of every day, by clear out the court
17:00
Speaker 2: and I was just sitting there thinking, what in the
17:03
Speaker 2: h E double all just happened. I'd look at the
17:05
Speaker 2: class like I've been to seven a m. And at
17:08
Speaker 2: seven pm and it's like a big blur.
17:11
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's amazing. You get that weird time compression. And
17:14
Speaker 10: you know, the kind of a joke among lawyers in
17:16
Speaker 10: trial is there's there's three trials. There's the case that
17:19
Speaker 10: you plan to try, the case that you think you tried,
17:22
Speaker 10: and the case that you actually tried. So yeah, you're
17:25
Speaker 10: exactly right, all bets are off once you walk into
17:27
Speaker 10: that courtroom and you got twelve jurors and a potentially
17:30
Speaker 10: mercurial judge. You never know what's going to happen.
17:33
Speaker 2: You're right, same thing with crime saying Cheryl McCollum, how
17:36
Speaker 2: many have we've been on together? You know, you can
17:39
Speaker 2: prep all day long in your classroom Cheryl McCollum at
17:43
Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute, But when you get out there,
17:46
Speaker 2: it's like, seriously, like all h double l breakslops, it's
17:50
Speaker 2: nothing like you can prepare for.
17:52
Speaker 7: You can't prepare because your classroom is not going to
17:54
Speaker 7: give you wind and rain and cold and heat and
17:59
Speaker 7: activity with animals and even family showing up so you
18:03
Speaker 7: can practice all you want yelling.
18:05
Speaker 2: And screaming and contamination. And it's crazy. I think I
18:11
Speaker 2: heard Laura Ingle jumping in. Laura, what were you saying?
18:14
Speaker 6: Well, I was just just back to the shower curtain part.
18:17
Speaker 6: I just you know, as you think about the shower
18:19
Speaker 6: curtain being gone. Now, he had started school there, he
18:23
Speaker 6: had started attending this how that passed fall, so he
18:26
Speaker 6: probably moved in around August or September. But I'm just
18:31
Speaker 6: I just keep going back to the fact that they
18:32
Speaker 6: ran tests on the sink and the shower drain and
18:36
Speaker 6: the curtain rod, and there were no signs of blood
18:39
Speaker 6: on those things. And yes, the shower curtain is missing.
18:42
Speaker 6: I was just making that note that he had just.
18:44
Speaker 2: Moved in, right, Okay, So you're saying he moved in
18:46
Speaker 2: and hadn't bought a shower curtain, or that he just
18:48
Speaker 2: only took bubble bass, didn't eedy shower curtain.
18:51
Speaker 6: You know, I don't know. I'm just saying he just
18:53
Speaker 6: I was just curious. I was just double checking our notes.
18:56
Speaker 2: Laura Engle, you just gave the defense an awesome comeback. Okay,
19:00
Speaker 2: that he hadn't bought a shower curtain yet, or that
19:02
Speaker 2: he only took bubble bass.
19:04
Speaker 1: That was my fault.
19:05
Speaker 9: I think I can address the Japan the shower curtain
19:08
Speaker 9: issue and stuff.
19:10
Speaker 2: First of all, who is this This is Toty Wilson
19:12
Speaker 2: and Toby Great.
19:14
Speaker 1: Go ahead, dear.
19:15
Speaker 9: As somebody who's done forensic biology and lots of crime
19:19
Speaker 9: scene work and listening pattern analysis. The assumption is in
19:23
Speaker 9: the crime of this nature that the defendant got himself
19:27
Speaker 9: very bloody at the crime scene. That's not necessarily the case.
19:31
Speaker 9: We know from many cases that the how bloody the
19:34
Speaker 9: defendant gets is a factor of if the assailant or
19:39
Speaker 9: if the victims fight back or not. Is also a
19:44
Speaker 9: factor of what's being used and the directions the blood
19:47
Speaker 9: is being thrown in. So it's not I've had cases
19:50
Speaker 9: involving multiple stab wounds in all where the defendant has
19:54
Speaker 9: little or no blood on them. The focus here really
19:58
Speaker 9: on that shower curtain, I think, is not where you
20:01
Speaker 9: want to look. If he was bloody after leaving that
20:05
Speaker 9: crime scene, with which horror victims, he may have been
20:09
Speaker 9: the more important thing to be looking at is the
20:11
Speaker 9: interior of the Hyundai, because just like in the oj case,
20:16
Speaker 9: where you know they examined the interior of the Bronco
20:19
Speaker 9: even though it was excluded from evidence, they found the
20:22
Speaker 9: victim's blood in that car, and the reason being because
20:25
Speaker 9: you don't have a chance to clean up at the
20:27
Speaker 9: crime scene, you're anxious to get out of there and
20:29
Speaker 9: get away from it. So the interior of the Hyundai,
20:33
Speaker 9: I would think, is a more valuable thing to have
20:36
Speaker 9: examined than the apartment itself. The apartment, you know, being
20:41
Speaker 9: that it's an apartment, meaning multiple people could live there
20:44
Speaker 9: and if it has been furnished when he moved in,
20:47
Speaker 9: any blood you find could be totally irrelevant to the case.
20:51
Speaker 9: So I, as a renting biologist and bloods better expert,
20:57
Speaker 9: would be more interested in what was in that car.
21:00
Speaker 2: You know, Toby Wilson, I can listen to you talk
21:02
Speaker 2: all day long. I started off disagreeing with you about
21:06
Speaker 2: how there are stabbings where there is no blood, because
21:09
Speaker 2: in this case, Laura and Eryl jump in and help
21:13
Speaker 2: me out with the facts. It's my understanding it was
21:16
Speaker 2: an incredibly bloody crime scene, but which tells me the
21:20
Speaker 2: killer would have had blood on him. But you are right,
21:25
Speaker 2: there can be stabbings and the way that they go down,
21:28
Speaker 2: the defendant does not get very bloody. It's amazing, but
21:33
Speaker 2: I've seen it happen. I know that it can happen.
21:37
Speaker 2: So that would not be the alpha and the omega,
21:39
Speaker 2: the be all and the end all of this blood investigation.
21:43
Speaker 2: Whether he himself was bloody, but based on this crime
21:47
Speaker 2: scene isn't true. Laura Engel and Cheryl McCollum, that we've
21:50
Speaker 2: been told it was really bloody.
21:53
Speaker 6: We have certainly heard those. Look, the police didn't come out.
21:56
Speaker 6: They haven't really told us much, right, and they said
21:58
Speaker 6: it was a very traumat crime scene. Obviously that was observed,
22:04
Speaker 6: but they really haven't given us a.
22:06
Speaker 1: Lot of detail, right Cheryl, Cheryl, what do you know?
22:08
Speaker 10: That's right?
22:09
Speaker 7: But here's what I can tell y'all.
22:11
Speaker 2: Oh boy, The.
22:12
Speaker 7: Defense might say, well, he didn't have time to get
22:14
Speaker 7: a shower curtain. He had just moved in.
22:16
Speaker 1: He had time to.
22:16
Speaker 7: Buy gloves, a shovel, some goggles, and a black mask.
22:20
Speaker 7: He freaking had time to get a shower curtain. He
22:22
Speaker 7: chose what he bought.
22:23
Speaker 1: Also, he moved in in August.
22:25
Speaker 2: Let's don't forget that he moved in in August, so
22:27
Speaker 2: he would have had August, September, October, and part of November,
22:34
Speaker 2: unless again he let kel Gon take him away in
22:38
Speaker 2: a bubble bath.
22:39
Speaker 1: He had a shower curtain.
22:40
Speaker 2: Guys, I've got so many other things to discuss, including
22:44
Speaker 2: the emergence of a secret storage locker, But I really
22:50
Speaker 2: want you to hear Brian Coburger talking back to a cop. Now, I,
22:57
Speaker 2: as a felony prosecutor for many many years, would not
23:01
Speaker 2: talk back to a cop. Absolutely not, even if I disagreed.
23:05
Speaker 2: Forget it. No, you can fight the ticket in court,
23:07
Speaker 2: but not on the street. Reality. I got to hear
23:12
Speaker 2: Coburger now, this is him. Look, I grew up in
23:15
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere, and I take a lot of
23:17
Speaker 2: pride in that we didn't even.
23:18
Speaker 1: Have a red light or stop slidn But.
23:21
Speaker 2: I even I knew enough as a new driver not
23:24
Speaker 2: to pull into a crosswalk where people would be walking.
23:27
Speaker 2: But when he gets pulled over for that, I want
23:30
Speaker 2: you to hear how he talks to the lady cop.
23:34
Speaker 1: Let's go with our cut four zero five, Jack, Yeah.
23:37
Speaker 12: I was just slightly into the crosswalk, so yeah, yeah,
23:42
Speaker 12: where I'm from Pennsylvania. We actually don't have like crosswalks.
23:45
Speaker 5: Oh so even if you're if you're kind.
23:47
Speaker 12: Of slightly yeah, there's a little bit more leeway as well,
23:50
Speaker 12: Like there are a few lines, Like there's one white
23:53
Speaker 12: line up, there's another one.
23:54
Speaker 13: Who think there's like a like a certain margin from
23:57
Speaker 13: which you can actually kind of put your veh company
24:00
Speaker 13: your vehicle.
24:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know it.
24:03
Speaker 14: Law is very state to state, but there is a
24:05
Speaker 14: law in Washington for blocking an intersection like that proceeding
24:09
Speaker 14: through and you don't when you're just stalling.
24:12
Speaker 1: I forget the actual verbiage.
24:13
Speaker 14: I can find it for you, but it's like stalling
24:15
Speaker 14: blocking an intersection.
24:16
Speaker 1: I'm just curious about the law, don't Oh no, yeah,
24:18
Speaker 1: I can find it for you. Okay.
24:20
Speaker 2: I love this woman. Am I saying her name correctly?
24:23
Speaker 2: Laura Engele officer Isabelle Lungas sounds right? And then she
24:29
Speaker 2: offers to go get him.
24:31
Speaker 1: That's amazing the law. I mean, Tate, Mark Tate.
24:36
Speaker 6: I love her.
24:37
Speaker 1: She's going uh huh mm hmmm mm hmmm.
24:40
Speaker 2: Thinking, oh, what a jerk. He's actually trying to talk
24:45
Speaker 2: me out of this. Did you hear that?
24:47
Speaker 10: Yes, he had his eyes looked crazy to me, and
24:51
Speaker 10: you know, he was doing the thing that you now
24:54
Speaker 10: just said. Is no reason to speak to the police
24:57
Speaker 10: on the side of the street like that, But he did,
24:59
Speaker 10: and he I tried to engage her in some sort
25:02
Speaker 10: of thing that almost sounded like a prank. Oh, I'm
25:05
Speaker 10: from a strange place. I don't know how to work crosswalks.
25:08
Speaker 10: Give me a break.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are no crosswalks in Pennsylvania. I lived in Philly.
25:12
Speaker 2: There are plenty of crosswalks in Pennsylvania. The guys, he
25:16
Speaker 2: actually slits the he he sends the lady cop to
25:20
Speaker 2: go get the law.
25:22
Speaker 1: Take a listen to four zero six.
25:23
Speaker 14: I don't see Pennsylvania registration like it all. Okay, let's
25:27
Speaker 14: see expirers November twenty second or twenty twenty two.
25:31
Speaker 2: Okay, and yeah, one of those receptions.
25:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that lost. It'll hand it back to you.
25:37
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go check your info.
25:39
Speaker 14: I'll try by that RCW the law for you, and
25:42
Speaker 14: I'll be rebeck thank you.
25:44
Speaker 8: All right.
25:44
Speaker 2: I guess that's going to be the code of Washington,
25:48
Speaker 2: the law.
25:49
Speaker 1: And listen.
25:49
Speaker 2: I can't believe she's still being so cheerful with this
25:52
Speaker 2: guy who's sending her off like she's his secretary to
25:56
Speaker 2: come back with the law.
25:57
Speaker 1: Fetch go get me the law. Okay, listen to the Okay,
26:01
Speaker 1: So I found it.
26:02
Speaker 14: So I don't know what in Pennsylvania to the where
26:06
Speaker 14: you go to find lawsbon in Washington, it's called the
26:09
Speaker 14: Revise Code of Washington. So I'll try to turn my
26:11
Speaker 14: brightness up. But it's basically it's just called an RCW.
26:15
Speaker 14: So it's RCW forty six sixty one.
26:18
Speaker 1: Dot two zero two.
26:19
Speaker 14: So it's no driver shall enter an intersection unless there
26:22
Speaker 14: is significant space on the other side of the intersection.
26:28
Speaker 1: To accommodate the vehicle. He is operating without obstructing.
26:31
Speaker 14: The passage of other vehicles despite any traffic control signals,
26:35
Speaker 14: signal indications proceeds. So you had a green light, so
26:38
Speaker 14: you're thinking you can go, but you're blocking the intersection.
26:41
Speaker 1: Okay, I think I need a shrink on this.
26:43
Speaker 2: Doctor Jeff Kalashevski, forensics psychologists, author of Dark Side. He
26:49
Speaker 2: actually is challenging the traffic. He's in the middle of
26:54
Speaker 2: the crosswalk. He's trying to tell her I just nedged
26:57
Speaker 2: in a little bit. That's what I call an admission.
27:00
Speaker 2: He's challenging her on the law and trying to talk
27:03
Speaker 2: circles around the traffic officer who's having none of it
27:06
Speaker 2: and actually goes and has to recite to him the RCW,
27:10
Speaker 2: the Revised Code of Washington.
27:12
Speaker 11: Yeah, he thinks he's smarter than her and tries to
27:16
Speaker 11: outsmart her, but she smart at him when she's quoting
27:20
Speaker 11: the law. And that's what he gave up because he,
27:23
Speaker 11: I mean, he had to accept that he lost smarted him.
27:26
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, Cheryl, I'm very surprised that the lady officer didn't.
27:31
Speaker 2: He's just enough force to effect an arrest, and you
27:36
Speaker 2: know what I mean, throw him down a handcuff him.
27:40
Speaker 2: But listen to four zero nine one more time, four
27:45
Speaker 2: o nine.
27:46
Speaker 13: I'm actually just from a very rural area, so you
27:49
Speaker 13: just don't have crosswalks unless I visited an area where
27:53
Speaker 13: there are crashbacks, and then it's not very frequent. Yeah,
27:57
Speaker 13: I do apologize if I was asking you too many Wesmans.
28:00
Speaker 1: About the law. I wasn't trying to like, no, no, no,
28:02
Speaker 1: not at all.
28:03
Speaker 14: Like I understand you're not from here, so if you
28:06
Speaker 14: don't know a lot of people don't know a bunch
28:08
Speaker 14: of laws like I only know it because this is
28:10
Speaker 14: what I do. But yeah, if you're ever curious on
28:13
Speaker 14: any more laws RCW and they can be hard to
28:16
Speaker 14: read because it's in like legal language. But hope that helps.
28:20
Speaker 12: Definitely.
28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, have a good day. Definitely you too. Thanks. I
28:23
Speaker 1: don't know the laws.
28:24
Speaker 2: He's getting his PhD and the study of criminal procedure
28:30
Speaker 2: and crime.
28:31
Speaker 1: Okay, help me out, Cheryl McCollum.
28:34
Speaker 7: Well, as you will know, ignorance the law is no defense. Plus,
28:38
Speaker 7: what he's trying to do here, in my opinion, is
28:41
Speaker 7: play her. So he thinks I'm going to be able
28:44
Speaker 7: to you know, Jedi mind trick her and not giving
28:47
Speaker 7: me a ticket. Will that failed? And what happened as
28:51
Speaker 7: soon as he failed, he started to apologize. So that's
28:55
Speaker 7: what I think we're going to see in court. He
28:57
Speaker 7: thinks he's smart, but now that he's stunt like a
29:00
Speaker 7: rat in a coffee can, you're going to see a
29:02
Speaker 7: different attitude.
29:03
Speaker 2: Has anybody on this panel ever seen leave It to Beaver? Anybody? Yeah,
29:08
Speaker 2: even in rerus, because I'm sure you're all so young
29:11
Speaker 2: you didn't see it the first time around. Do you
29:13
Speaker 2: remember Eddie Haskell suck up. He's always going, oh, missus Cleaver,
29:18
Speaker 2: I love your pearls.
29:20
Speaker 1: That kind of guy.
29:21
Speaker 2: This is so Eddie Haskell. That's what I have to
29:24
Speaker 2: say all the time to the twins. Don't suck up.
29:26
Speaker 2: It's not working Eddie Haskell. This is Eddie Haskell sucking up?
29:30
Speaker 1: What see real?
29:31
Speaker 2: This is over a ticket. What is he going to
29:33
Speaker 2: do when he gets in trial. I bet he's going
29:35
Speaker 2: to give his lawyer. He's making two hundred dollars an hour,
29:37
Speaker 2: by the way, I bet he is going to give
29:39
Speaker 2: her fits. Laura Ingele, I want you to now, now
29:44
Speaker 2: that I've listened to Brian Coberger's voice longer than I
29:46
Speaker 2: ever wanted to, I want to talk about this secret
29:49
Speaker 2: storage unit. Guys, take a listen to our cut three
29:51
Speaker 2: ninety seven. Our friends at k t v B.
29:56
Speaker 15: We found a padlock round in shape in the living
29:58
Speaker 15: room closet. Based my training experience, I recognize the padlock
30:02
Speaker 15: to be the shape of locks typically used on storage units.
30:05
Speaker 8: You're hearing a phone call between Washington State University Assistant
30:09
Speaker 8: police Chief Don Daniels and a district judge.
30:12
Speaker 11: All right, please proceed.
30:15
Speaker 15: I believe the storage unit or closet was likely used
30:20
Speaker 15: by Coburger to store the items and likely access between
30:25
Speaker 15: the time of the murders and has travel to Pennsylvania,
30:27
Speaker 15: where he was later arrested.
30:29
Speaker 8: Daniels believes the storage unit could contain DNA evidence, including blood,
30:35
Speaker 8: skin cells, footprints, fingerprints, or hair. Daniels is asking the
30:39
Speaker 8: judge for a search warrant to enter coburger storage unit.
30:43
Speaker 2: Okay, So Mark Tate, joining US high profile lawyer out
30:46
Speaker 2: of Savannah with the Tate Law Group, explain what is
30:50
Speaker 2: happening right there.
30:51
Speaker 10: Well, it looks like that, you know, they have found
30:52
Speaker 10: a reason, they've got probable cause to conduct another search.
30:56
Speaker 10: And you know, I think that obviously he hasn't surreptitiously
31:01
Speaker 10: enough hidding his evidence. And I think that what we
31:03
Speaker 10: see as a dogged prosecutor who's going to put a
31:07
Speaker 10: case up against him that doesn't leave any stones unturned.
31:11
Speaker 10: That's what I think is going on.
31:12
Speaker 2: And guys, take a listen to our cut three nine
31:14
Speaker 2: eight again KTVB, there's.
31:16
Speaker 5: Probable cause in the courtorated by author ricence.
31:19
Speaker 11: You just signed my name, Jerry G.
31:23
Speaker 10: Lvey on a search warrant.
31:27
Speaker 5: To enter the four described storage.
31:30
Speaker 8: FACI because police conducted a presumptive test. These documents do
31:35
Speaker 8: not say definitively if the stains are blood.
31:38
Speaker 1: It just says that they could be.
31:40
Speaker 8: It's unclear if any of the items police reported that
31:42
Speaker 8: day came from the storage entit or if they were
31:44
Speaker 8: all from his apartment.
32:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
32:06
Speaker 2: You know what it sounds like to me tate that
32:09
Speaker 2: the judge or the magistrate is giving a is granting
32:13
Speaker 2: a search warrant over the phone or by zoom.
32:18
Speaker 1: Because he says, I authorize.
32:21
Speaker 2: You to sign my name Gary J. Libby, And that
32:24
Speaker 2: is not uncommon. Sometimes you need search warrant in the
32:26
Speaker 2: middle of the night and you find whatever magistrate is
32:29
Speaker 2: on duty and you call them or go there. But
32:31
Speaker 2: you can call now, especially with zoom and FaceTime, you
32:36
Speaker 2: can easily.
32:36
Speaker 1: Get a warrant.
32:37
Speaker 10: It's made officers a lot, made it a lot easier
32:40
Speaker 10: for them to get warrants when they need them. And frankly,
32:43
Speaker 10: judges like being involved in an early stage so that
32:45
Speaker 10: there are a few errors that keep evidence out later.
32:48
Speaker 10: And so I think that's you know, if COVID did anything,
32:51
Speaker 10: I think it made it so law enforcement can reach
32:53
Speaker 10: magistrates to get warrants. And I think that's at least
32:56
Speaker 10: one positive thing that we've seen as judges have become
32:59
Speaker 10: more accessible law enforcements of these kinds of things. I
33:02
Speaker 10: think head off evidence herey admission problems down the.
33:05
Speaker 2: Line, and I'm glad they recorded it because I don't
33:07
Speaker 2: want a defense a turney jumping up like you tap
33:10
Speaker 2: there at the end, going oh.
33:11
Speaker 1: There wasn't a warrant. It was an emergency.
33:14
Speaker 2: There were no exigence circumstances, so therefore you can't use
33:18
Speaker 2: anything you find in the search fruit of the poisonous tree.
33:21
Speaker 2: Bottom line, we learned police search a secret storage locker
33:25
Speaker 2: belonging to suspected quadruple killer Brian Koberger that they believe
33:32
Speaker 2: cops believe he accessed after the murders. So Laura Ingle
33:37
Speaker 2: joining me, senior correspondent, Fox News Channel and Star Fox
33:41
Speaker 2: True Crime Minute Podcast.
33:43
Speaker 1: Laura, what do we know?
33:45
Speaker 6: Well this, you're right, and that was a phone call
33:47
Speaker 6: that was recorded on December thirtieth, and that boys, you
33:50
Speaker 6: hear as you identified Assistant Chief Don Daniels of the
33:53
Speaker 6: WSU Pullman Police Department. So they noticed that there is
33:57
Speaker 6: this round lock. Now I don't know how many people
34:01
Speaker 6: here on our panel and listening who have had an apartment.
34:05
Speaker 6: I've had many. And when you get an apartment, if
34:08
Speaker 6: it's a small one like this, you usually will get
34:10
Speaker 6: I've always had a little, tiny closet, some kind of
34:14
Speaker 6: a little storage unit where you could put you know,
34:15
Speaker 6: your your chairs or whatever. It's it's usually pretty small.
34:18
Speaker 6: The one thing that's interesting about what Daniels wrote in
34:22
Speaker 6: her report about what she found or didn't find in
34:26
Speaker 6: the storage closet. Now, did he store.
34:29
Speaker 1: Things in there?
34:29
Speaker 6: Did he remove them before he took off and went
34:32
Speaker 6: home for the holidays. She did write in her report
34:35
Speaker 6: there were cobwebs going into the storage closet and the
34:39
Speaker 6: floor was dusty, and she wrote it did not appear
34:42
Speaker 6: the closet had been used recently, and nothing was seized
34:45
Speaker 6: or collected from the closet because there was nothing in it. Now,
34:48
Speaker 6: if he had something in there, I'm just noting what's
34:51
Speaker 6: in the report, We're we just don't. She says that
34:54
Speaker 6: there was nothing in there.
34:55
Speaker 2: I mean that'sower curtain, Laura, where the shower curtain was?
35:00
Speaker 6: That's it, hey, Nancy.
35:02
Speaker 7: It literally could be that he put the shower curtain
35:04
Speaker 7: down and we pulled up that's where he went in,
35:07
Speaker 7: and he had clothes that he changed into and put
35:09
Speaker 7: everything else on the shower curtain and discarded it. That
35:12
Speaker 7: could absolutely be the case.
35:14
Speaker 2: Like a hobo, you know how they have seen the
35:17
Speaker 2: pictures of them putting everything in a big piece of material,
35:22
Speaker 2: putting it on their back. That gathering everything he wanted
35:24
Speaker 2: to get rid of in the shower curtain and getting
35:27
Speaker 2: rid of it all. We also are getting somewhat of
35:32
Speaker 2: an idea where the defense is heading in this case.
35:36
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut four to ten from
35:38
Speaker 2: our friends at crimeonline dot com.
35:40
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger's public defender claims evidence that could prove Coburger's
35:44
Speaker 5: innocence has not been turned over to the defense. An
35:47
Speaker 5: Taylor has filed a motion to compel discovery. Among the
35:50
Speaker 5: evidence requested footage from Coburger's arrest, notes from his interrogations,
35:55
Speaker 5: and details about how police tested DNA found at the
35:58
Speaker 5: scene of the University of Eye to Home murders. The
36:01
Speaker 5: defense team is asking the judge to compel prosecutors to comply.
36:05
Speaker 5: Many of these items were included in the first request
36:08
Speaker 5: for discovery filed back in February. A second request was
36:12
Speaker 5: filed on March twenty fourth. There is a total of
36:15
Speaker 5: seven items requested again, the body in dashcam footage from
36:19
Speaker 5: Coburger's arrest, Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence,
36:23
Speaker 5: collection and analysis of items recovered at Coburger's home as
36:27
Speaker 5: well as his parents' home, trash cans and other receptacles,
36:31
Speaker 5: Coburger's Hyundai Elantra, all lab testing, all recordings and notes
36:36
Speaker 5: from Coburger's interrogation and training records for multiple officers. Their
36:41
Speaker 5: names have been redacted from the filing. A redacted event
36:44
Speaker 5: is listed, requesting all reports, notes, recordings, and photos from
36:48
Speaker 5: that event. Attorneys say this contains exculpatory evidence. The judge
36:53
Speaker 5: has yet to respond to the motion. The defense team
36:56
Speaker 5: is requesting a ten minute hearing on the issue before
36:58
Speaker 5: the late June preliminary time.
37:00
Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds overwhelming, but this is what they did.
37:03
Speaker 2: There are forms that you pull up online and their
37:09
Speaker 2: discovery forms, and they list everything but the kitchen sink,
37:14
Speaker 2: well plus the kitchen sink that could possibly be requested
37:18
Speaker 2: on any discovery motion by the defense. So that's what
37:23
Speaker 2: you've got right here. And then they threw in some
37:24
Speaker 2: specific things. Lauren Ingele joining us from Fox News. The
37:28
Speaker 2: reality is that defense is claiming the state is hiding evidence.
37:32
Speaker 1: That's what they're that's what they're claiming.
37:34
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, they want to get their hands on everything.
37:37
Speaker 6: And the other part of this, when we're talking about
37:40
Speaker 6: that search of the storagelocker and of the apartment of
37:44
Speaker 6: Brian Coberger's office at WSU where he had just completed
37:49
Speaker 6: his first semester, they found that everything was empty. And
37:53
Speaker 6: did you also read about this letter that had happened
37:57
Speaker 6: in September? He was he was kind of in trouble
38:01
Speaker 6: leading up to everything that occurred in October November. In September,
38:07
Speaker 6: there was there's a letter here that said that you
38:11
Speaker 6: had This is a letter directed to Brian Coberger that
38:14
Speaker 6: he had an altercation with a faculty, with a professor
38:18
Speaker 6: John Snyder, and saying that they had some kind of
38:21
Speaker 6: back and forth, that he had failed to meet his
38:25
Speaker 6: expectations as a TA and as a result, on November second,
38:30
Speaker 6: the graduate director met with him to discuss an improvement
38:35
Speaker 6: plan of his behavior and performance. And then there were
38:40
Speaker 6: there were further conflicts.
38:42
Speaker 2: There were a lot of conflicts Cheryl McCollum. Many of
38:45
Speaker 2: the conflicts Coburger had as a TA teaching assistant, which
38:49
Speaker 2: was his duties as he was getting his pH d
38:52
Speaker 2: at WSU Washington State University, were centered around women. He
38:57
Speaker 2: would grade the more harshly, talk down to them. This
39:00
Speaker 2: is these are their allegations. I'm not guessing or hypothesizing.
39:05
Speaker 2: This is what they say. That they were single out
39:09
Speaker 2: and criticized, over criticized compared to their male counterparts.
39:14
Speaker 7: Sure, even in his social circle, they say that he
39:18
Speaker 7: would have, you know, these bursts of anger, and he
39:22
Speaker 7: would sometimes be extremely rude. That should, you know, shock
39:26
Speaker 7: no one on this panel, much less your audience.
39:30
Speaker 1: He is I think so.
39:33
Speaker 7: Just you can pinpoint exactly what his behaviors were like,
39:39
Speaker 7: exactly what his thought processes were. He was not good
39:44
Speaker 7: at hidding anything, not his attitude and not murder.
39:48
Speaker 2: And don't you know he was ill when that lady
39:53
Speaker 2: traffic officer pulled him over and then almost immediately produced
39:57
Speaker 2: the relevant law.
39:59
Speaker 1: She pulled it up for him our cell phone. We
40:02
Speaker 1: say this to you, my friends.
40:04
Speaker 7: I read where the correations officers say he didn't do
40:08
Speaker 7: anything but watch TV and watches every single thing about him.
40:11
Speaker 7: I know he can't stand you because again, you're smart,
40:16
Speaker 7: you're capable, and you are calling his number out every day.
40:20
Speaker 1: Every day.
40:21
Speaker 2: Hey, Toby Wilson, join me friends a consultant at No
40:25
Speaker 2: Slow Forensic dot Com.
40:27
Speaker 1: Toby, can you ever.
40:29
Speaker 2: Really and truly clean a bloody crime scene?
40:34
Speaker 9: My experience over the years has been now that I've
40:37
Speaker 9: been called into a lot of situations to search for
40:40
Speaker 9: blood after they suspect or can demonstrate that there was
40:43
Speaker 9: to clean up. And there's always stuff missed. You Either
40:47
Speaker 9: it's either under carpeting or it's peached through the cracks
40:51
Speaker 9: and the tile, or it's under refrigerators. Cleaning up the
40:54
Speaker 9: crime chain and getting rid of blood. Even for professional services,
40:57
Speaker 9: they miss stuff. There's always something behind.
41:00
Speaker 2: An FYI, everybody wind X don't cut it when it
41:07
Speaker 2: comes to cleaning a cry and saying you know, Toby Wilson,
41:09
Speaker 2: I only pray that you are correct.
41:13
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfalls. Goodbye, friend,