Latest / Coffee People Podcast / S5:E3 - Carol and Eric Blanchett, Owner-Operators, Talking Crow Coffee Roasters: An Interview.

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S5:E3 - Carol and Eric Blanchett, Owner-Operators, Talking Crow Coffee Roasters: An Interview. · Coffee People Podcast

0:10
Hey, good morning everyone. Welcome to season 5 episode. 3
0:14
of the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
0:17
I'm Ryan Walt. And this is the show where I
0:19
bring you the stories of coffee professionals entrepreneurship
0:23
and coffee education. Today you're going to hear a
0:26
chat. I had with Carol and Eric launch
0:28
a of talking Crow coffee. Roasters insulting Washington
0:32
Sultan is northeast of the Seattle area and in what is for
0:35
my money. One of the most beautiful areas
0:37
of the entire West Coast talking Crow is unique among Coffee
0:41
Roasters because they focus on decaf coffee as their primary
0:45
product during our upcoming conversation.
0:48
We talked about Swiss water decaf.
0:50
A lot Swiss water is actually the name of a company in British
0:54
Columbia Canada. They use a chemical free method
0:57
to remove 99.99% of caffeine. From a coffee bean and I'm not
1:02
great with science. So I'm just going to share an
1:04
infographic from Swiss water. That shows the process from
1:07
Green Bean to decaffeinated. Green Bean on roast
1:10
westcoast.com go check that out and while you're there subscribe
1:13
to the newsletter. I know it is offered for free
1:16
but please consider a paid subscription to help support the
1:19
creation of this content. It is a great way to support
1:22
this podcast and the sharing of Coffee News coffee stories,
1:26
coffee vocabulary, and the uplifting of The Craft coffee
1:29
immunity plus so much more comes out in every newsletter, the
1:33
link to that is in the show notes today.
1:36
I'm drinking a really freaking good batch Brew black coffee
1:39
from Crossings Coffee Roasters that I picked up from Cafe
1:42
lechera this morning and I think I've blathered on long enough to
1:46
ensure that you've been able to acquire a good cup of coffee
1:48
too, because it is time for this interview with Eric and Carol of
1:53
talking Crow coffee roasters. Well, welcome to the roast West
2:08
Coast coffee podcast. I appreciate you being here.
2:11
Thanks so much for having us. It's real privilege.
2:14
Is this? Yeah, if you wouldn't mind.
2:16
Just for the audience, if you could say your name.
2:18
So they can identify Who's Who and the name of your company and
2:23
maybe what you do at the company.
2:25
I am Carol, blonde, Shea, and I'm known as the founder and CEO
2:31
of talking Crow, Coffee Roasters and Eric Walsh a Carol's husband
2:36
and I am the head Roaster at talking to a coffee, roaster and
2:41
green, buyer, and all proper and all hats.
2:46
It's just the two of us that we do it all.
2:50
That's the exciting part about being an entrepreneur is you are
2:52
challenged by new things all the time.
2:56
Totally totally. Yeah, so true.
2:58
So I want to get into a bunch of different things today about
3:01
your backstory and about the coffee and you guys are very
3:04
specific. Kind of are very unique, coffee
3:06
roaster in one Essence, I want to share but I'm hoping before
3:10
we do that you could maybe give me a little bit of background on
3:14
how you came to coffee. Do you have a first memory of
3:17
coffee from growing up or later in life?
3:20
And what made you get interested in coffee in the first place?
3:25
I'll go first. So I didn't really grow up
3:27
drinking coffee. I didn't start drinking it till
3:29
I was in college as a necessity to get through cram sessions and
3:34
then working full-time. Kind of morphed to drinking more
3:37
and more and then I loved it. So I didn't grow up drinking it,
3:40
but I really, really, really enjoy it.
3:44
And Eric on the other hand, you tell, so I grew up in a small
3:48
town Watertown, Connecticut and my dad owned a soda jerk shop
3:53
and Oakville Connecticut called Marshals.
3:55
As Variety Store. And so I work behind the counter
3:58
with my whole family and of course we serve coffee and so I
4:02
was introduced to really bad tasting coffee and at an early
4:06
age but I did enjoy it and then multiple careers through my
4:11
life. Coffee's always been part of
4:14
that to basically keep me warm. Keep me, you know, give me a
4:18
boost. So coffee's been in my life.
4:23
Did you know at the time you said bad coffee.
4:25
Did you think it was bad at the time or do you only think it's
4:28
bad? Now, looking back in retrospect,
4:30
only think it's bad. Now, looking back.
4:33
It was it was Farmers Brothers. Otto drip coffee, sitting on the
4:40
burner all day. Oh yeah.
4:43
So, yeah. And then I had a career as a
4:46
ship captain, so that coffee is just you just add water to the
4:50
grounds. And, you know, you're always
4:52
drinking the same coffee. So I'm kind of used to what What
4:56
bad coffee tastes like. So, you know, getting into this
4:59
industry really? Really made me exciting to know
5:03
that. Yeah, there's awesome coffee out
5:05
there. There's a term for for that.
5:09
Kind of coffee Cowboy Coffee. But is there a different term
5:11
for Ship Captain Coffee? Yeah, I can't say it on here.
5:19
Well, the universe ship captain. We've had on the show, so you've
5:22
broken a barrier. So at some point in your life,
5:25
your We have other careers, obviously, before this before
5:29
opening talking Crow what became kind of the Inspiration Point.
5:33
The Tipping Point that made you think, starting a coffee.
5:35
Roaster was an idea. You wanted to pursue where n and
5:38
right leading up to that where you kind of actively getting
5:42
into coffee as like a craft as craft coffee at home.
5:45
You know what, led up to that point?
5:47
My God. Are you answer?
5:48
Okay. So well, I think it's funny Eric
5:51
probably should answer it. But, you know, he was working in
5:54
the high-tech industry. Three and and that's kind of
5:57
what brought us up to Washington.
5:59
And, you know, he was kind of thinking about the days when he
6:02
would retire, you know, like what can we do, what can we do
6:05
together? You know, that would include the
6:07
children that are currently living at home.
6:09
But then once they're gone, you know what would work for later
6:12
to something? We could do together and enjoy
6:14
together. That was a common passion.
6:16
And so we actually had a friend of ours, whose son was roasting
6:20
coffee at home, just as a hobby and he was like, oh, that's kind
6:23
of interesting. Yeah, I think I'll look into
6:25
that. And so then in researching that
6:27
he found that specialty coffee Association, offered classes,
6:32
kind of the whole gamut from seed to cut, you know, coffee
6:35
buying roasting Barista, everything.
6:37
All the things and he said, you know, what would you think?
6:41
What would you think Carol? If we roasted coffee, if we
6:44
started a Coffee Roastery, it's something to do later down the
6:48
road. And I was like, well, that
6:50
sounds pretty awesome, but I don't know anything about that
6:53
and he's like, exactly. So I found these classes.
6:56
What if we took classes just to see if he'd be a good fit, if
6:58
it's something we want to pursue further, I'm like yeah, let's do
7:01
it. So we did and we kind of fell in
7:05
love. It was totally overwhelming,
7:07
because there's so much information out there, but it
7:10
was kind of like, wow, this is a really neat community that we'd
7:14
like, to be a part of. And so that's kind of how it
7:17
started which then, coincidentally, but not
7:21
coincidentally. I mean, at that same time we
7:24
were taking these classes up. The Swiss water process plant in
7:28
British Columbia. So we learned tons about coffee,
7:31
but we learned tons about that particular decaf process.
7:35
And how great that coffee tasted and why I said coincidentally is
7:39
because about the same time as we were doing all these classes
7:42
and there are a lot of them, my health really started to take a
7:45
dive and it turned out I was suffering from extreme adrenal
7:50
fatigue. And so the doctor was like,
7:52
well, you really need to give it caffeine gives Give up coffee
7:56
and I'm like oh this is going to go.
7:57
Well, I'm going to be a coffee roaster and I can't drink
8:00
coffee, you know. I'm like, it's like the age-old
8:03
adage of don't trust a skinny cook, you know?
8:05
And I'm like, what are we going to do?
8:07
But like I said, it was so fortuitous because here, we were
8:11
at the plant and we kind of looked at each other with like
8:13
this light bulb Moment. Like decaf we could do decaf and
8:18
this Market is really not touched much at all.
8:21
Not in the way that we would do it the way that we've chosen to
8:25
do. It.
8:26
And so that kind of just brought us to this specific Niche that
8:31
we that we're trying to cater to, but it was, It was kind of
8:35
selfish too, because it was like, I don't want to give up.
8:37
My, I don't want to give up coffee.
8:38
I don't want to give up what I love, but I don't want to have
8:42
Freddie decaf either. It's like why bother?
8:44
So that's kind of how we got to where we're at.
8:48
That's one of the reasons specifically that I reached out
8:51
to you, because you, you promote yourself as a decaf coffee
8:54
roaster. Although you do have some
8:56
regular caffeinated coffee for anyone, listening for those that
8:59
still want that boost. I don't generally feel a lot of
9:02
effects from caffeine myself, so I relate to you Carol, in the
9:05
sense that for me, it's about the experience.
9:07
I just enjoy, I enjoy making it. I enjoy drinking it.
9:10
I enjoyed the taste. There's just something calming
9:13
about it for me to get into the day.
9:15
And unless I drink that second or third pot, I I'm not
9:18
generally feeling many effects or if I forget to, if I forget
9:21
to drink coffee and I think this is an advantage to me, I don't
9:24
feel any withdrawal effects either for whatever reason, so
9:27
that's really interesting and you decide to kind of go I'm
9:31
going through this thing personally but this is something
9:33
we're getting involved in. Did you at the time think that
9:37
there that it could work that people would be interested in a
9:40
decaf kind of specific Roastery and and I don't mean that to
9:44
question your choice. But I think if you were looking
9:47
at the marketplace, you I've seen a lot of people doing that.
9:50
Yeah, I like the answer that. So one of the things in the
9:52
classes we were taking is there were, they went over a lot of
9:56
Statistics, you know, coffee drinking around the world and we
10:02
found out through all these statistics, that 1% of the
10:05
United States population, drink decaffeinated coffee, okay?
10:11
So if you take that one percent and you say okay, you know,
10:16
that's a lot of people That's enough to build a business on.
10:20
And that's just the United States itself worldwide, it's
10:24
incredible. Because if you look at Ramadan
10:28
Islamic Nations, they don't drink caffeine, you look at
10:31
China. China has a large population of
10:34
non caffeine Drinkers and so we were looking at all that and
10:39
going yeah this model actually will work.
10:41
It was interesting too because at the Swiss water plant where
10:46
they you know they test decaf Saul.
10:48
Time and drink it and just believe in what they're doing so
10:50
much. It was super encouraging.
10:53
But then, you know, we kind of got out into our sphere and had
10:57
to really overcome that stigma of death before decaf.
11:01
We've had to do a lot of kind of educating at farmer's markets
11:04
and explaining that. Not all decaf is the same.
11:07
And there truly is yucky, decaf out there because it's not
11:11
quality coffee and it's not the process to decaffeinated uses a
11:15
ton of chemicals decaf that you might think.
11:18
Grocery stores, mostly pretty stale.
11:20
It's been on the shelf for quite a while because the demand for
11:23
it is lower. So the turnover is you no longer
11:26
and so there's lots of reasons why people have a legit bias
11:30
against decaf, but we're here to say that not all decaf is the
11:35
same. And once you've taste good
11:38
decaf, I feel like you're there for the flavor.
11:41
Like you said, you're there for the flavor and the experience,
11:44
not for the buzz. And so I kind of feel like true
11:47
deep down Lovers are the decaf levers because you know they
11:51
just want it for the flavor. I think that was a challenge.
11:54
If anyone is listening to this to try decaf, I think there's a
11:58
lot of different reasons for decaf whether it's you don't
12:00
want the caffeine or for me, I would supplement my regular
12:03
coffee drinking with it. I actually like to drink coffee
12:06
late in the day, but I generally won't if it's caffeinated just
12:10
because I don't know, maybe with a little whiskey, it happy hour.
12:14
You have a an interesting name talking Crow.
12:18
It is the name of your coffee roaster.
12:20
I'm wondering where that name came from and what does it mean
12:22
to you guys? So growing up, you know, back in
12:25
Connecticut, I was kind of a wild child, I lived it at my
12:29
free time, I spent a lot of time in the woods, hanging out the
12:32
animals and things and and so, I had a lot of strange and exotic
12:36
pets and I have a lot of pet crows and things like that.
12:41
So I had this one pet Crow. His name was Tony and he started
12:45
mimicking us and copying our Words, we said and copying our
12:50
pets and things like that and he started, you know, basically
12:53
talking he'd say, hello play ball, don't fall.
12:58
He barked like the dogged me out, like the cats, you know, he
13:01
come in the house and really cool.
13:03
My mom has pictures of me laying on my bed, whether a Great Dane
13:07
or Yorkshire Terriers are cats and my pet Tony all on my bed,
13:12
you know, all like, snuggling, you know, I mean it was just a
13:15
weird Normal childhood but Tony used to follow me to school.
13:22
And reason he's followed me in a school was not because it was
13:26
me, it was the other kids. The other kids would feed it,
13:30
but in my particular school, they had two different recesses
13:34
and lunch hours. So they had the regular lunch
13:38
hour and then they had a lunch hour for the special needs kids
13:42
and Tony didn't like to go to the regular because those kids.
13:46
It would actually throw rocks at him and tease them and stuff
13:48
like that. But the Special Ed's kids would
13:51
actually feed him and play with him.
13:54
And so he really liked hanging out with them and so he would
13:58
just go there and hang out with them and talk with them and they
14:01
thought that was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
14:03
Right. But there was this one, little
14:05
boy who had autism and he would just, you know, sitting bench
14:09
and rock and Tony would come up to him and say hello.
14:13
And do his normal skit and A little boy would then feed Tony
14:18
Cheetos and so Tony, thought he knows is a crow's love language
14:23
by the way. So he and Tony became like
14:27
really good friends and 20 would you know talk to him and out of
14:32
Tony talking to him. He turned around and taught Tony
14:34
how to say his ABCs and count from 1 to 10.
14:39
The principal of the school found out that micro was
14:44
assisting this little boy Boy and was like, called me into the
14:49
into the office. And I'm thinking here, I'm
14:51
getting in trouble because my pet Crow is stealing somebody's
14:55
toys or jewelry and stuff because he did that, right?
14:58
And I get pulled into the office and there's photographers and
15:01
reporters and they did an article about me and micro
15:07
because he helped this little boy, you know, come out of his
15:10
shell basically. And so that's kind of our
15:13
backstory to talking Crow and so we And I have a mascot in our in
15:19
our company. No.
15:20
That's and we thought sounded kind of cool.
15:22
Sort of, I don't know. Like I don't know.
15:25
Just some and it's cool. I mean you when somebody says
15:28
hey I'm talking Crow it's kind of a euphemism for saying, hey
15:32
I'm going to talk to you about something, you know, this is
15:35
this is something fun to talk about, you know.
15:37
It's not like gossip but it's you know, something that that's
15:41
fun to learn about and that's kind of where we're at as kind
15:44
of like educating people about Decaffeinated coffee and you
15:48
know how it actually can taste awesome.
15:51
The caffeinated processes we educate people on all the
15:54
different decaffeination processes and so they can make
15:56
choices of for their own health. So yeah, it kind of fits I feel
16:01
a kinship there because one I have a friendship with a crow at
16:06
my house here, aren't they? Just the coolest?
16:09
It freaked me out a little bit at first because he was just
16:11
around all the time and I thought well this is kind of
16:14
weird but there's some girls outside of our And when I would
16:17
commute on the train pre-pandemic, it would follow me
16:20
all the way to the train station every day and kind of walk along
16:24
the fence posts and along the little signs all the way there.
16:27
And I don't know how long went by and I know that my wife
16:30
thought I was crazy but eventually I would started
16:32
talking to him to the crow. And his name is Charlie, by the
16:36
way. Awesome.
16:38
And so I would have these full conversations.
16:40
It was just kind of a fun little thing and it was like, maybe I
16:43
don't want to say getting over a fear of the unknown, but it was
16:46
just Just kind of a unique experience between a person and
16:49
an animal. Also, I had a penguin through
16:52
college that was sort of a mascot.
16:54
So I don't that's a story. I can tell on the are either,
16:57
but someday, if we ever meet in person, I'll certainly share
17:00
that. You're the real mr.
17:02
Popper. Maybe.
17:05
But in maybe a rated R mr. Popper, you mentioned teaching
17:12
people about decaf and I'm wondering, are you also
17:15
mentioned that you had some Tissues and that kind of
17:17
inspired that tangent and your coffee drinking.
17:21
How does coffee impact Health in your experience in the benefits
17:25
of detoxing or reducing caffeine.
17:28
I think there's all kinds of information out there but what
17:30
is it that you're sharing with people in your perspective and
17:34
what have you experienced? Well, it's interesting.
17:37
We actually have two very different stories about coffee.
17:41
So, few years ago, like I don't know probably 15 years ago Eric
17:46
just on a whim heading on a hunting trip and, you know, got
17:50
a latte on the road, which is a common thing here in Washington
17:53
from a latte. Stan, after that latte, he was
17:55
like, you know, I don't, I don't really feel like having coffee.
17:58
I think, I'll give it up for a year and just see, you know, in
18:01
the course of that time, he was drinking water with lemon, you
18:04
know, lemon water instead of coffee and he actually ended up
18:08
getting kidney stones, which were the calcium.
18:12
Kind, his particular body creates a lot of calcium.
18:16
And I had remembered a long time ago in college a friend saying
18:19
to me something like, you know, when you give your kids pizza
18:22
and soda, the calcium of the cheese on the pizza is not
18:26
absorbed because of the caffeine in the soda, the caffeine takes,
18:31
you know, reaches away the calcium.
18:32
I remembered that and told Eric, hey, I wonder if for you if you
18:37
need to go back on coffee because it was just interesting
18:39
that, you know, a happened and then be happened.
18:42
I just wonder couldn't hurt to go back on anyway, and sure
18:45
enough. He's Like coffee more for him as
18:47
prophylactic and he's never had anything since.
18:50
So that's very interesting, not that that's medical advice but
18:53
for him, and for his particular body, he needs caffeine for me
18:58
on the other hand because I have an autoimmune issue.
19:02
So I have Hashimoto's in conjunction with adrenal
19:06
fatigue. So you know, your thyroid and
19:08
your adrenals kind of hold hands and play together and so when
19:11
one isn't optimal, the other one often isn't either.
19:14
And so for me the higher Those of cortisol in addition to
19:18
stress and other things are not a good pair for me.
19:22
So I am really sensitive to caffeine like a lot and so, so
19:27
for example, we cup coffee, we cup coffee all the time when
19:31
we're going to buy green coffee, when it arrives.
19:34
When we roast like we're roasting all the time and
19:36
cupping all the time and I cup what Heroes because it's quality
19:40
control. But I have to be sure that I
19:44
never kept at night because I won't Don't sleep, you know, and
19:47
cutting is a matter of slurping and spitting.
19:49
I don't even drink it, but even that amount affects me.
19:52
So for me, it's like a completely different scenario
19:56
and that's kind of how we came up with coffee is for everyone.
19:59
Caffeine isn't because everybody loves a cup of coffee.
20:02
It would seem, but not everybody can tolerate the caffeine
20:06
component of it. So that's kind of our story and
20:10
as far as detoxing it's my experience unless you get sick
20:15
and and He just doesn't sound good to you and you can go cold
20:18
turkey, and you already feel credi.
20:20
Anyway, I mean, that's one way to do it, but if you're not, you
20:24
know, under the weather and you're trying to detox, I would
20:27
say go very slowly, you know, replace if you're drinking a 16
20:32
oz coffee, maybe back it down to a 12-ounce caffeinated.
20:35
So you're just decreasing your caffeine little by little and
20:38
then get ya use a half-caf. Like maybe if you're drinking it
20:42
in the afternoon, you know, kind of make those swaps so that your
20:45
slowly Slowly swapping out more and more caffeine and then up
20:49
your water intake that'll help with the headaches that happen.
20:53
So it definitely has to be a slow process though because
20:56
otherwise you're just miserable. And I think you throw in the
20:58
towel too soon because you're like, I can't, I can't do it,
21:02
you know. But once you're there, the cool
21:05
thing about it is I have more level energy than I ever had
21:10
drinking coffee, and I don't get that 2:00 in the afternoon
21:13
slump, where you're kind of reaching, like, Really need a
21:16
boost for me because I have a large family was like, okay, I
21:20
have to have this, or, how am I gonna make it through dinner?
21:22
You know, it was kind of more feeling like that.
21:25
Oh, I'll never make it, but I don't have that anymore because
21:28
I'm not, I'm not on that addiction.
21:30
And so if any of your listeners are Desiring to get to a
21:34
different place, in their health journey, I would say persevere
21:37
and do it. Because when you get to the
21:39
other side, you won't believe it until you're there.
21:42
And you're like, wow! I have more energy than I did
21:45
drinking coffee. Gee that's really interesting
21:47
and this is just because I'm ignorant this specific topic.
21:51
But like, if I were to buy a non-alcoholic beer, there's
21:54
generally still like a very small percentage of alcohol in
21:57
it. Is that true?
21:58
It decaf coffee as well. Well, depends on the
22:01
decaffeination method, okay. One of the reasons why we stick
22:05
with Swiss water only Hazard decaffeination method is,
22:08
they're the only company that's 99.9%.
22:12
The caffeinated and 100% chemical free.
22:16
A all of the decaffeination methods are higher like 97 or 95
22:23
percent, okay, they don't they don't get as high as Swiss water
22:28
and they all use some sort of chemical process to either
22:31
prepare the beans or do the decaffeination method.
22:35
So that can end up, you know, leaving chemicals in your
22:39
decaffeinated coffee. And a lot of times, that's why
22:42
it smells bad. That's why it tastes bad people
22:45
out of Sugar and milk in it to get it down.
22:49
There are a couple of other methods that don't use chemicals
22:52
but they aren't as face. Like Eric said, they're like 97%
22:57
caffeine-free which is still great.
22:59
But if you're like me that's just tends to be now.
23:02
So I'm just sensitive to a lot of things.
23:04
I'm sensitive to the chemicals that are used to decaffeinate
23:07
and insensitive to hire caffeine levels.
23:10
So that's kind of why we've chosen Swiss water and we've had
23:14
a lot of other Especially like at importers and exporters asked
23:19
us, you know, our would you really be willing to try this
23:21
one or this one or this one? And you know we just have made
23:25
it our model that we only use water.
23:27
So that's kind of our unique thing too because other Roasters
23:31
that do decaf use other methods as well and that's great but
23:35
that's we've kind of set ourselves apart that way since
23:39
you have this kind of specific model of being that you're
23:42
roasting has that made it easier or Harder To Source, quality.
23:46
OT products for you because I would imagine because the
23:49
markets already smaller for decaf generally.
23:52
And now you're going into an even smaller portion of the
23:55
beans available to you. How easy is it been to find
23:58
quality products and you also have an effort to kind of source
24:01
sustainably and reduce carbon footprint.
24:04
I noticed, as I was reading about you, how difficult is
24:07
that, or does it make it easier? Because you're really only
24:09
looking at one small window? Well, pre-pandemic, it wasn't as
24:14
challenging but Currently, it is more challenging.
24:19
But that's I think it's more challenging now because the
24:23
complete workflow of obtaining beans, right?
24:27
That's changing a little bit more as we move away from the
24:30
pandemic and the shipping issues, the selection of coffee.
24:35
This is one of the other reasons why we really enjoy working with
24:38
Swiss water. Is there, they are a specialty.
24:41
Coffee decaffeination Company. Okay, they remote a lot of
24:47
specialty coffee as their main decaffeinated coffee.
24:51
I mean, they, they do others as well, you know, because they got
24:55
to make money, right? But they focus a lot on the
24:57
specialty coffee industry, and they bring in a lot of the
25:03
plantations that our specialty Growers.
25:07
That's kind of a, their Market as well, you know, they want to
25:12
be known as a specialty coffee decaf.
25:16
Nation method. And so we're kind of riding on
25:20
their coattails and so we watch to see what they're bringing in
25:26
and we contact our suppliers and say, hey, this is what's coming
25:31
into Swiss water, are you going to have it?
25:33
Can we get it so on and so forth?
25:35
And we've been pretty successful with that.
25:37
I mean, we pretty much have gotten copies from almost the
25:42
complete coffee belt. The hard ones are the island
25:45
Cavite. Coffee's because that they
25:47
become really, really expensive to do caffeinate.
25:51
But we've had like, I said, Columbia, we've had Ethiopia.
25:54
Are you peopie has amazing? It's got some wonderful.
25:57
Blueberry notes to it. We have El Salvador, we have
26:01
Guatemala Brazil, I mean it's our offerings are a lot of
26:06
single Origins that match to a lot of the single Origins that
26:11
are in the the caffeinated market.
26:14
And so we're really happy that we can.
26:16
A lot of times match one to one so that I can do like right now
26:20
we offer a half-caf Mexico and that's because I have the exact
26:25
same Mexico in decaf as I have in regular.
26:28
So I can you know, I can mix those together and give folks a
26:33
half-caf and pretty much match the flavor notes of those two
26:38
coffees. So yeah, it's it not been, you
26:40
know, a super challenging experience but, you know, it's
26:45
not Perfect. Like if I was just 100%, you
26:48
know, regular roaster, I think the challenge sometimes lies in
26:52
the fact that the coffee needs to come from origin.
26:56
Go into Canada for the process and then come back into America
27:00
for us. So there's a bit of a lag, you
27:03
know, as far as when coffee is harvested and exported, you
27:07
know, if we were just a regular roaster then we would have our
27:11
coffee at a specific, you know, a different timing of it.
27:14
So we have to wait. And so, the challenge for us,
27:18
lies in trying to judge how much coffee to get to last us until
27:23
perhaps the next season. We try to, not run out, but you
27:27
know, sometimes we don't anticipate how much our
27:30
customers are. Going to love a particular one
27:32
and we blow through it and it's like, oh we should have gotten
27:34
way more than we did. And of course, because it's
27:38
decaf, let's say a container came into, you know, poor and
27:44
three pallets, only go. Go to Swiss water.
27:46
Now, I don't know if that's truly accurate or not but, you
27:50
know, we have a limited supply of what goes there and so we
27:54
have to be we have to be kind of on our game to know how much to
27:57
order. So it's we're working through it
27:59
though you know we're kind of getting the hang of it.
28:01
Now it was harder in the beginning but also not as many
28:05
people knew that we were focusing on decaf.
28:08
So I feel like the supply and demand has kind of worked its
28:13
way. Now people know that we are the
28:15
decaf people so there's Or demand, but we know to order
28:17
more, you know what I mean? So it's a, we're getting there.
28:21
I didn't ask this earlier, but do you have a cafe?
28:24
Or are you an online? Roaster only.
28:27
So we are currently just an online roaster.
28:30
Only we do farmers markets and we do an occasional pop up sales
28:36
type things. You know, that's what we
28:38
primarily do. We're working to move towards
28:43
having a mobile Espresso Bar. So that we can do events but
28:49
that's kind of where we're working towards.
28:52
So we're just kind of building funds and figuring out how we
28:55
want that to look and you know what equipment we want to have
28:59
and how we how we want to display that, you know, a lot of
29:02
that kind of stuff. So I mean we would love to have
29:05
a brick-and-mortar someday but you know that's the someday.
29:10
And it's interesting how you know, covid really showed us how
29:13
a lot of those cafes had to really piss.
29:16
Pivot and pivot quickly to figure out how to survive that
29:19
shut down and a whole other set of challenges that nobody ever
29:24
imagined. And so in some ways, you know,
29:26
our business thrived because we were only online and everyone
29:29
was home making coffee. And so, you know, that was a
29:32
real blessing for us. We feel for our fellow coffee
29:35
people here in. I mean all over of course, but
29:38
especially in Washington because there's, you know, so many good
29:41
coffee shops here and, you know, several of them aren't In
29:45
business anymore. And so that's it, just it helps
29:48
us to work a kind of taking that aspect a little slower like
29:52
really to Think Through It was that is that where is that?
29:54
Where God would want us? Is that what is that?
29:56
Well, in one of our next moves are not, but we feel like the
29:59
mobile coffee cart would allow us.
30:00
The ability to do events for people who know if people who
30:04
have evening weddings, who they want coffee but it doesn't
30:08
always make sense to have a caffeinated, you know?
30:10
So the I mean so there because of that there won't be, we won't
30:14
be a tons of events. It's which also is good for our
30:16
family that were not always gone, you know, away from the
30:20
kids that are still at home. Well, you mentioned working with
30:24
family earlier and I believe you have a fairly big family.
30:27
So I'm wondering how everyone's involved in the business and
30:31
also, you know, the idea of taking classes together with
30:34
your spouse is one thing. But then taking it to the next
30:37
step in starting a business with your spouse where you're
30:40
together at work, and you're also together in your life,
30:43
which I have done as well. And then Of a pandemic.
30:46
So now you are really together at least for an extended period
30:49
of Time. How does that work for you guys?
30:51
And then you know, just the family aspect of all be working
30:54
together. Well.
30:55
So the first part of your question with the kids that's
30:59
it's been interesting. This has been like a process.
31:02
I mean, we kind of started with all the classes and everything
31:05
2016. Our Roastery is on our property,
31:09
we have five acres here. So we had to jump through all of
31:13
the County permitting and hoops and All of that and we live in a
31:17
kind of up in the mountains in a very forested area.
31:20
So our sons were huge helps in taking down trees.
31:26
You know, I say slicing dicing making home fries of all the
31:29
lumber digging trenches and and so, really all of them just a
31:33
lot of the hard labor. They were huge in getting us to
31:37
a place where we're at currently.
31:40
I've had one of our daughters was our social media manager for
31:43
a couple of years. Which was super helpful.
31:47
She's currently now married. So, doing her own thing, and
31:50
she's doing social media for the for that company.
31:52
She's working for analysis. And we've had a couple of kids
31:55
kind of model for our pictures. So they get their little, you
31:57
know, few moments to fame on Instagram here and there and the
32:01
young girls that are still home with us.
32:03
They help us with farmers markets and stuff like that.
32:06
So each person has contributed in their own way and, and that's
32:11
been super, it's been super helpful to know that they They
32:15
are older kids that don't live at home anymore.
32:17
Of course, they're always the taste testers to, you know,
32:20
well, they don't ever pocket that but I feel like they really
32:24
support us and really encouraged us to, you know, just keep going
32:27
when when times are hard because sometimes it's a lot of work,
32:31
and when you work, especially because it's where our home is
32:34
located, you never are away from it.
32:37
And so you can always be thinking about what else you
32:40
could be doing, how what, you know, how to make it better and
32:42
what to do and all the things that still need need to be done.
32:46
And so I appreciate their emotional support and their
32:49
physical support. They've been just great.
32:52
And as far as working with spouse, I feel like, you know,
32:57
marriage is a little dance, you know, and I feel so blessed.
33:01
Eric and I sometimes, I mean we're alike, but we're so
33:04
different. And but the thing is, is that my
33:07
weaknesses are his strengths and vice versa.
33:10
He is so strong in the areas. That might be the other way
33:13
around. I'm strong in the air.
33:15
As he's not so strong. And so, we work well together
33:19
that way when our pride doesn't get in the way, you know.
33:23
So if we I think sometimes as with any marriage, you know, you
33:26
can have miscommunication and then feelings get hurt or, you
33:29
know, you just whatever, you know, kind of need to take a
33:34
step back and oftentimes for me, maybe a sharp tongue coming from
33:38
me. Might just be because my plate
33:40
is overly full and thankfully. I think he knows he can read me.
33:44
Well, Enough. Now, we've been married, it'll
33:46
be 34 years in August, so he knows me well enough to know,
33:51
not to take it personally. But I am also try to be quick to
33:55
apologize, you know, because a gentle answer is so much nicer
33:59
than a not one, you know. So it's challenging sometimes.
34:03
Happy wife is a nice life. That's right.
34:06
No, I mean no, you know, we work well together.
34:08
I mean she's right though is I'm the geek the technical the me.
34:15
Diver of the teller, like the home and of the company and
34:19
she's the clerical wizard. I mean, well, I mean, grammar
34:25
wise, my wife is a walking English, major the, yeah.
34:32
I mean, it's just it's just amazing.
34:34
How this company has brought out the both of us and our little
34:42
ways we just live and And it's been fun, it's been great.
34:47
I mean I I could pick no one else to be my boss.
34:50
I mean, I get to boss around that's pretty good.
34:54
And you know it's kind of fun to say she'll say hey you need to
34:57
roast and I'm like, oh yeah okay no you need to roast I'll have
35:04
to walk the whole 40 feet out to The Rose Tree, you know.
35:08
But yeah. No.
35:08
It's good to I think it's good. Like I know it sounds kind of
35:12
funny and this is a general broad thing.
35:15
But because I'm concerned a woman, and I'm a consumer.
35:19
And I know what I like in a look of a product.
35:22
And so sometimes I'll say, Hey, you know, I think we should do
35:25
this, help me make this happen and because sometimes, I don't
35:28
know how to get from where I, where we are to, where I want to
35:31
be and that's where Eric has a lot of really great ideas.
35:34
He's a very outside the box thinker and I really appreciate
35:39
that about him. So it's been, it's been fun kind
35:42
of getting to know each other in a way, you'd think after 30 For
35:45
years, we've know each other, like, you know, like the back of
35:48
a book, but, but we have, you know, it's interesting.
35:51
And it's been fun to kind of see, like he said, the strengths
35:54
come out over. What could potentially be an
35:57
issue? That doesn't isn't an issue.
35:59
You know, I think that's the good stuff though, that
36:02
long-term relationship, where you do know somebody at their
36:05
core but you don't necessarily know how they're going to react
36:08
to everything or how they might guide you in a different
36:11
direction. My wife and I have also been
36:13
together quite a while. I'm as long as 30 Or but coming
36:16
up on 20 this year, or right? That's awesome.
36:18
And we have worked together and she's essentially my not product
36:23
tester, but she's the person I go to, if I have a design or I
36:26
have an idea because we are complete opposites.
36:30
I was an English major, but she still correct my grammar.
36:32
So I don't know how that works out and she'll say to me, you
36:36
know, well I don't have any consequence about what your this
36:39
industry or this business and I'm like, well that's why I'm
36:41
asking you you have no preconceived notions of what I'm
36:44
asking. You could just Give me your
36:45
honest opinion and and she does very honest opinions which is
36:50
very helpful for me. You mentioned you were in the
36:53
mountains, I know you're based just kind of northeast of
36:55
Seattle area. Yes which is just beautiful, a
36:59
beautiful part of the world. If you haven't been to like the
37:02
North Cascades for anyone listening they should absolutely
37:05
take a visit up in that direction.
37:07
I'm wondering about. You know, what is next for your
37:12
Roastery up there. What is next for your company?
37:15
What do you see for the future 2022 and Beyond?
37:19
Well, we've got a fun new product that's going to be
37:21
releasing here in end of May early June.
37:24
I don't want to say what it is because it's still kind of
37:26
hush-hush, but suffice it to say.
37:29
I think that I think you'll love it.
37:32
It's I'll give you a hint. It's super convenient.
37:35
So there you go. I think I'm excited about that
37:38
to offer something that's a little bit different than whole
37:41
bean coffee. So there's that coming.
37:44
And then like Eric mentioned, you know, we're slow.
37:48
But sure researching about the coffee cart and how to make that
37:52
work. We don't want to just be like
37:55
like a kind of permanent pop-up if that makes any sense.
37:59
Like that's not where we're going.
38:00
We really want to cater to people who have a specific event
38:04
with a specific need for you know decaf to be served at that
38:08
event whether it's a family reunions or a wedding or or even
38:11
a business event or whatever. So we want to be selective
38:15
because our girls we just know Being, so we have eight
38:19
children, five of them are grown and out of the house and we know
38:23
how fast that time goes. And so, you know, we don't want
38:26
to schedule every weekend, and then, you know, lose that time
38:30
with them. But we also want to expand our
38:34
business and to be able to, what is the word I'm looking for,
38:39
like a diversify a little bit, you know.
38:41
So we've got our online sales, we'd love to increase our
38:44
wholesale opportunities to we'd love to be the coffee.
38:48
That's served in coffee shops. Absolutely, would love that.
38:51
And then, to be able to serve at occasional events, that's kind
38:56
of where it's at. It's kind of like the best of
38:58
all, worlds, where we can serve our clientele.
39:01
That we need, but still have time with our kids.
39:06
Hey cool. I want to kind of close out here
39:09
with a question that I've asked every person that I've
39:12
interviewed, which is, if you were to go out into the world
39:16
and stop at a cafe or coffee shop, what is it that you're
39:19
ordering for yourself? So for me, I always look to see
39:26
what their single Origins are, and it always order a single
39:30
origin Americano. I just like the flavor of
39:33
coffee, and it's always, It is always hot.
39:37
I know I'm not really into cold coffee, I mean I make cold brew.
39:41
I make an awesome night Chokehold.
39:43
Oh man is so good. But I'll if someone is say
39:47
here's a Nitro and here's a hot Americano, even if it's 100
39:51
degrees outside, I'll go for the hot Americano.
39:54
It's just it's just what I prefer and for me I really
39:59
americanos are my go-to as well. I like to experience the flavor
40:04
but it kind of depends. And on their decaf process.
40:08
So, that's always the kicker for me.
40:11
So if I, if, I know it Swiss water, I know it will taste
40:14
good, but if it isn't Swiss water, then it's always a chance
40:21
that it won't be as great. So then I'll usually get one of
40:25
their seasonal drinks with oat milk.
40:28
And if it's cold out, then I'll get it out, you know, like a
40:30
latte. If it's hot out, I'll get it
40:32
iced. So I kind of mix it up a little,
40:35
just depending, On their decaf process.
40:38
So and I always have to ask like, I always have to make sure
40:42
this is decaf, right? Because so often they're not
40:45
used to making that, you know? So yeah, one particular coffee
40:50
place whose name won't be mentioned, who never get your
40:54
name, right? I always have to make sure that
40:58
this is decaf, right, that reminds me of going to the
41:03
Pancake House or diners in the old days and seeing the orange.
41:06
And then the brown handle. Yes.
41:08
And being like are you sure? This is the one that I want and
41:12
the answer is always, yes. But I always wonder like because
41:14
I've been on the other side of that.
41:15
As a server where I didn't know as a kid. 19, 20 years old
41:20
serving where I just grabbed one and Yep.
41:22
This is it. It is what you're asking for.
41:24
Exactly, I would never do that now.
41:27
Is there anything that I is there?
41:29
Anything that I missed anything that we didn't cover today that
41:31
you really want people to know about your about your company or
41:34
about you guys? Give us a try decaf coffee.
41:40
So one of the things about decaf coffee, though that that I want
41:43
to bring up, is we roast here, talking Crow, we roast to bring
41:48
the on the most flavor out of that coffee.
41:52
That's another reason why we really stick with Swiss water
41:55
because their process only removes caffeine.
41:58
So the everything else is left in the bean.
42:01
So I get to go through the same process as I would with a
42:05
regular. Their coffee, in the sense of, I
42:07
have my charging temp. I have my my caramelization time
42:12
and my development time is all based on with rise.
42:17
So, with that, in mind, I can bring out some awesome flavors
42:22
in this decaf coffee. And it for me, being a drinker
42:28
of both. I actually really enjoy having a
42:32
decaf in the evening because I get that.
42:35
That full experience of hot cup of coffee but a lot of mouth
42:42
flavor and that kind of like tricks my brain thinking.
42:45
Oh yeah, you are having coffee and it's good coffee and you
42:49
know, you're not having caffeine but I don't care about that
42:53
because he takes great, it tastes great, right?
42:56
And so it's that whole experience is something like
42:59
we're trying to really emphasize the people that you don't, if
43:03
you're switching the decaf, You don't have to give up that
43:07
experience or those flavors. And I think that's been the
43:10
thing that a lot of people lost because there are used to, you
43:14
know, drinking the other types of decaf methods.
43:18
You know, the ones with the orange label and for years and
43:22
that is, you know, it has no flavor and it has flavor.
43:25
It's just not good flavor. Yes, flavor.
43:28
You don't you don't you don't like, you have to add milk and
43:31
sugar to it, to it, to drink it. But yeah, so that's kind of our
43:36
Our main focus is educating people that decaffeinated coffee
43:39
doesn't taste that bad if it's, especially when a Roasters
43:45
taking effort and time to make it enjoyable, and bringing a
43:52
pleasure of drinking a cup of coffee, just like your
43:54
counterpart. I mean that was the thing.
43:56
Like certain my wife, we'd go out for coffee and she'd have to
44:00
get drink crappy decaf. And here I am enjoying this
44:03
wonderful tasting, you know. Ethiopian.
44:07
And she's having some blend that they just threw into The Roaster
44:13
and made it DQ, no a decaf and she's not having that same
44:19
pleasant experience, and I'm happy.
44:22
And that's hard to. Once you've, you know, if you
44:24
once drank regular, you know what you're missing, you know.
44:29
So that makes it all the worse when you're like, this is not
44:32
satisfying, you know, so we're through to change that.
44:36
So there's that. But there's also one other thing
44:38
that I, that comes to mind is that Eric uses an air roaster to
44:42
roast. And so, that was a conscious
44:44
decision that we made up where we live.
44:48
If we chose a gas drum roaster, it would have to run on propane
44:52
which number one would be expensive for us.
44:55
And then we have to pass that cost on to the consumer which we
44:58
didn't want to do. But it also introduces
45:01
hydrocarbons in the whole process and we didn't really
45:04
want to do that. So with that being, Fully
45:06
electric, we're able to minimize our carbon footprint and we just
45:11
like that and it's different a little bit different roasting
45:15
because you don't have the heat of the drum.
45:19
You know, it's kind of air circulating around the beans and
45:22
so it's a shorter time of roasting which allows us to
45:26
roast more coffee in a time period.
45:28
So that was really great for us to and we feel like our whole
45:32
model is different, you know, we focus on decaf, it's only only
45:36
Swiss water. We pretty much only roast at
45:38
medium level because we feel like to light is just tube ready
45:43
and not really great and too. Dark is what people are so used
45:46
to really dark really oily decaf.
45:49
Coffee that tastes on borderline, burnt is not where
45:52
we're going. We want people to experience
45:55
flavor notes that are listed on the bag.
45:57
Like oh hey, like Eric mentioned our decaf Ethiopia.
46:00
Hey I really I taste that blueberry you know and those
46:04
more delicate flavors. Go away the darker, you go.
46:07
So yeah, we're just kind of different Swiss water medium
46:11
roast, you know, are roaster. We're all the things different,
46:15
but we feel like it's, it's proving itself to be a very good
46:20
thing because we feel like our coffees were talking about.
46:23
I mean, not to be cheesy like with talking Crow but really,
46:28
you know, people know us as a really good decaf, coffee people
46:32
and hey, I'm good with that. Yeah, I mean our goal, Oh like
46:36
my goal is, I want to I want our company to be the old adage.
46:40
The decaf King of the market. I want to I want Talking Crow to
46:47
be like when somebody says hey I need to order decaf, they're
46:51
going to say oh get ahold of talking Crow there, they have
46:54
the most education, they have the most selection they have,
46:59
you know, just a an availability of a good and awesome tasting
47:04
decaf that Your customers are going to enjoy.
47:08
That's our goal. That's our goal.
47:10
I commend you for forging your own path and and taking on the
47:14
challenge. And I'm looking forward to
47:15
trying your decaf coffee. I certainly drink quite a bit of
47:19
detail calf in my life, so and I just really appreciate you guys
47:22
coming on the show and spending some time.
47:24
Talking to me about it and sharing what you guys have been
47:26
doing. Well, thank you so much for
47:28
having us as such a pleasure and a great day now.
47:38
To recap Swiss water is a company that uses non chemical
47:42
processing to remove caffeine from a coffee bean, leaving
47:45
behind a flavorful coffee, without the kick Carol, and Eric
47:50
have had very different relationships with coffee in
47:53
particular, in regards to how their bodies engage with coffee.
47:57
And their health is impacted by it.
47:59
This conversation was a good reminder to check in with myself
48:02
and up my Awareness on how my body feels on days.
48:05
When I In coffee compared to days that I don't like a lot of
48:09
entrepreneurial efforts. Talking Crow was inspired by a
48:12
gap in the market. Carol said, it best quote.
48:16
I don't want to have cruddy decaf either.
48:18
It's like why bother why bother indeed?
48:21
Especially if you don't have to finally, there are some unique
48:25
challenges to sourcing decaf coffees that meet the standard
48:29
talking Crow expects. For example, the coffee goes on
48:32
a more circuit udhas route before arriving at They're
48:36
Roastery because it needs to get shipped from the Importer to the
48:38
Swiss water processing Factory in Canada, before it gets sent
48:42
back to Washington. But due to their specialization
48:46
and their goal to be known as leaders.
48:48
In the decaf Arena, they aren't truly competing one to one, with
48:52
more traditional Coffee, Roasters that are focused on
48:55
caffeinated coffee. That's said they also still sell
48:59
regular coffee. There is something for everyone.
49:02
I did check in with Carol this week to see if there was any
49:05
breaking news on the new products, you mentions at the
49:08
end of the show, but we're still a few weeks too early.
49:11
So follow at talking, Crow, Coffee Roasters, on Instagram,
49:15
or head to talking Crow, Roasters.com to see if the news
49:19
is dropped and to shop their current coffee offerings.
49:23
Those links will be in the show notes and in the newsletter on
49:26
roast westcoast.com next week, Chris O'Brien of coffee cycle.
49:30
Roasting will be back for another coffee.
49:32
Smarter episode to talk about cleaning, your at-home coffee
49:36
equipment, and I'll chat with Ian Nelson.
49:39
He works for one of my favorite Pacific, Northwest base Coffee
49:42
Roasters, Doma coffee in Post Falls Idaho.
49:46
Ian recently passed the incredibly challenging Q.
49:48
Greater coffee certification and we're going to chat about what
49:52
it took. To achieve that goal for paid
49:55
subscribers to the newsletter. There is also a Nubian Journal
49:58
column up this week, featuring communal coffee.
50:02
For those of you who are out there and listening.
50:04
Thank you, I really appreciate it.
50:06
And a big thank you to Cafe lechera for letting me.
50:09
Bring the podcast to the cafe earlier this week.
50:12
Hey Sam, it was great to meet you and the rest of the show's
50:15
industry Partners, including ignite Coffee Company.
50:17
Most our coffee company steady-state coffee, roasting
50:20
coffee cycle, roasting Camp, Coffee Company, Cape, And coffee
50:23
importers first light whiskey. I like to sample some of that in
50:26
the afternoon with a cup of decaf zoom bar coffee and tea
50:30
and Maria coffee. I touch base with Joe from Maria
50:34
earlier this week and I think we'll be seeing some big news
50:37
from them in the near future. This episode of the roast West
50:41
Coast coffee podcast is was has been written produced and
50:45
recorded by me Ryan woulld. I hope this show is found you
50:49
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity.
50:53
And coffee to make it through the day.
50:55
And you know what, honestly, after the lunacy that we've been
50:58
dealing with this week, I feel like I'm a little short on
51:01
sanity, no judgment. If you are to women's rights are
51:05
human rights, and that should be obvious for those of you who are
51:10
headed out into the world. For a cup of coffee this week,
51:13
please always tip your Baristas and be sure to drink.
51:17
Good coffee. I like beer, hey, everyone.
51:46
If you like the roast West Coast coffee podcast, you might also
51:50
appreciate the, I like, beer the podcast.
51:53
Listening to these guys is like being a fly on the wall of the
51:55
pub with a few of your favorite mates.
51:57
Having a pint these professional beer appreciators, have plenty
52:01
of stories to share on everything from the mating
52:03
habits of penguins to there behind the scenes Brewery
52:06
experiences check out the, I like beer the podcast where
52:10
ever, you are listening to this show about coffee or head to
52:13
ooh, I like beer the podcast.com ooh, I like beer the podcast.com