Latest / MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose / Episode 106 How AI is impacting our relationships and our kids with Kristen Hatton

Transcript

Episode 106 How AI is impacting our relationships and our kids with Kristen Hatton · MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose

0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Cynthia Gannoff, and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.
0:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, friends, welcome to the podcast.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just talk this up to one of the weirder topics that we're going to discuss on this show, but so good.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend Kristen Hatton is on.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: She is an LPC, both in Texas and Oklahoma, and there's just nothing like having friends.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: that also therapist because, you know, they speak some truth into you.
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And you also know when you were talking to them if they're like, hmm, that's getting a little weird.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, well, they know they're trained and no one when it gets weird.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was literally, we'll talk about this.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was literally thinking about like, she's come on the show when she deem to me at the exact same time.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are going to talk about AI, which is such
0:52
[SPEAKER_01]: a convoluted confusing topic that we both are like, I don't know that we know anything about it, other than let's get in front of it as parents as individuals.
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're gonna chat about AI today, which I'm super excited about.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're both gonna let you know that we are not experts in it, clearly, but at least let's start the conversation.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's have the conversation with each other, with our friends, and with our kids, because it's becoming more and more prevalent.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's been prevalent for a long time behind the scenes, and maybe the video game is the different things.
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: that we interact with on the internet, but now it's really coming to forefront.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm excited about this conversation.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think it's completely weird.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: She sent me a news story that will talk about the weirdest thing.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what is going on in the world, people?
1:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We have gotten real strange out there.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're going to talk about it really honestly and bluntly and from a parody perspective in our own lives.
1:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's thrilled she's here.
1:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's kick it off with Kristen.
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
1:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Good to be with you, Cynthia.
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Good to be with you again.
1:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's take to everybody.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Sweet Chris and I already taped once and we had a technical difficulty.
2:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are retaping because we want you guys to hear about this topic.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But even more interesting than that is the fact that you and I were like totally on the same wavelength or the Holy Spirit perhaps that I had texted you and said, hey, come on.
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Be on the show again.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, have you looked at your DMs?
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I literally just DMed you saying we should talk about this on your show.
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was meant to be even if we had to do it twice.
2:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
2:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's I love that we are both thinking of each other in that same moment.
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like literally the same moment because I think you were emailing me right after I sent that DM.
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I haven't thought of anything or anybody Kristen because I've been writing an editing this book in the fact that like in that moment, I'm like, I'm just going to reach out to her.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, okay.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So you sent me a story and it's even funnier now that we're taping this again because when you send it to me, I already said, I think you've lost your mind.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You were like, I think we should talk about this.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's a story, and I'll let you talk a little bit about it.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But about an AI, a person that fell in love with an AI bot.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, now, how did you find this weird nuanced story?
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was like on a CBS or something, right?
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're sending me, well, I mean, now it's everywhere.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it in people magazine, you're like, sent me another thing.
3:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, this is really a story.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So give people the gist of it.
3:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, so I went on a rabbit trail deep dive into AI a couple weeks ago really because I keep hearing about AI for therapy and for companionship and the next thing I know I come across a CBS taped interview with a man who had fallen in love with his bot.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a married man and he was basically having an emotional fair with his
3:44
[SPEAKER_00]: AI chat box and at and proposed to her and so he was expressing to the interviewer like what how we felt when she responded to this proposal and that just blew my mind and that's when I reached out to you but yes since then and I texted you the other night because it showed up there was a different story related story on Fox News so I'm like it really has in the last week or two I feel like just become everywhere I turn it's more and more stories
4:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and one, you're an LPC and I think that that's super helpful because we can talk from that perspective.
4:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You're also a mom and you're also a mom of olderish kids and young adults and we have both been parenting kids.
4:27
[SPEAKER_01]: as the first generation of parenting through social media.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, just trying to get in front of things a little bit.
4:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I said this last time we interviewed all admitted again.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember in law school when I was, I was like sitting in my little steady carol they gave us with a girl and she was typing away outside.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what are you doing?
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I'm emailing my mom and I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot they give us email addresses.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so dumb.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's going to use email?
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello well apparently we're gonna use email everybody and then it was social media right did you have that moment with social media that you're like no one's gonna do this is so dumb yeah well actually it was with Facebook because at the time they were like piloting it with just a few college campuses and because my husband was a college campus pastor he got a Facebook account we were like I just remember getting on his account and we were just mind-blown we're like what in the world is this and so to think now like the meta
5:20
[SPEAKER_00]: and everything that comes with it and how it's evolved.
5:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And even like thinking about Instagram, when my daughter first got it, it was a photo filtering app, like just to filter your photos.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't, there was no thought about what it was gonna be like now.
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then here we are with AI and I'm the same girl the email girls now like don't send me that damn story Kristen what are we talking about people are love with an AI bot and once again, it's on record we will laugh about this later because apparently it's a real thing and so
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to chat with you in general and you wanted to chat about just AI and it's the blindly in the blind, right?
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know what we don't know.
6:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think from both being strong believers, both being parents, both thinking we're a therapist, but only you are.
6:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's there's some things to think about as parents and as individuals.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't just for our kids.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's think about ourselves.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I did something just being kind of silly, but I went on and chat to BT and asked
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: chat GPT.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: What concerns should I have with AI in general?
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was kind of funny, the responses that chat GPT told me.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first thing it said was, and we'll go through them and we'll hit obviously the companionship.
6:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But the first one it said was that there's synthetic bullying going on.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so basically, like you can make the likeness of someone either in voice or other ways and use that, like through the internet, I guess, to bully people.
6:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, well, this isn't like when they used to like pant you on the playground, right?
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's a whole new day.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: a whole new day and really after we talked about this on take one I started reading more about deep fakes and maybe we've heard that term but it's creating fake but life like really pornographic images and so it's common
7:11
[SPEAKER_00]: that a lot of, not just boys, but typically it's boys making these images of female classmates and then circulating it through Snapchat or group text, whatever.
7:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I mean, devastating.
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine?
7:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, your image has been tagged to something pornographic or even if it's just a topless photo just, I say that is if that's not as severe.
7:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously it is.
7:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, bullying in an illegal, very extreme detrimental
7:41
[SPEAKER_00]: way.
7:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It said, you know, another one, I think we all know, but cheating and academic integrity, that that's another concern with AI, something to have on our radar.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw an article because, like you were saying, we talked about this at a parent layer of phones when the RAM and now all I see is stuff on AI.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm a pop culture junkie on AI at the moment, but I was, it was talking about there's a very recent study because AI is pretty recent, but
8:11
[SPEAKER_01]: talking about brain function and relying on AI so much and how it's decreasing our critical thinking skills, which totally makes sense.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we're becoming reliant on it.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now we don't have the capacity to be as creative, to form our own sentences.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if we're just turning to it to write, and I'm worried about in the workplace because companies are turning to this.
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think we're going to see to actually like our performance level and our ability to think is going to decrease.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, then the next thing it said, and that I think is kind of where we're landing on this, too, is just this companionship connection.
8:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace and
8:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like video games.
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We've worried about forever with our kids that they think and social media, but they think they're connecting, but they're actually not connecting because they're sitting in a game room in the dark by themselves playing their game.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they're talking to a friend and that is a form of connection, but it's not the connection of getting out and doing real life with people out and about same thing with social media.
9:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the worst.
9:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I feel like I know every vacation everybody's been on and how they're doing and who's passed away.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I'm totally in touch with you, but except I really haven't seen you in six months.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like AI has a version of this, too.
9:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So just talk to us about your thoughts, like, start with the story.
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And you said something that I thought was interesting, an emotional affair.
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that guy proposing was that an emotional affair and talked to us about that connection piece?
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think it's an emotional fair because an emotional fair is like creating a bond or intimacy with someone other than your partner.
9:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he was confiding in this robot and it was in a secret way.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So his wife had no idea that he was like devoting all his emotional energy towards a robot, like not sharing with her what he was sharing with his chat.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But so yes, I feel like she could, I think that we're going to start to see spouses feeling betrayed because someone has gone, you know, to a robot instead of them to have these intimate conversations.
10:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And no, of course, AI.
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: is only telling you like affirmation right so much easier in a sense to be in a relationship with a robot because they're just telling you what you want to hear and so you feel affirmed and validated and maybe listened to in a way that you don't feel like in your real relationships that happens and so I think people are seeing unfortunately that oh it's it's easier to be in a relationship here because I don't have to do the messy work of a real relationship yeah
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what is kind of the story behind the story.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it telling us about our need for connection by the fact that people are wanting to connect with a robot?
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: One, I mean, I think it speaks into our God-given core need for connection, right?
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We have that.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lord has made us interactive
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: beings that need each other.
11:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But what can we learn from that?
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you kind of spoken that a little bit just now.
11:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But what can we learn from the fact that people are more willing to turn to robots?
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is it?
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What can we learn about ourselves?
11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we want to be affirmed as one thing you just said.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we more likely to be vulnerable?
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that, is that one of the things too?
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We can be vulnerable without the fear of retribution or whatever might come from that?
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's no fear when you go to a robot.
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like a dear diary.
11:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I can just tell my diary whatever, but we're afraid of how we might be met by a human.
11:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I mean, we feel like maybe we'll be judged or maybe they're not going to know what to do with us and so we're afraid to be vulnerable.
11:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And often, I mean, to be fair, I feel like in our relationships we're so self focused today that we often do miss
12:00
[SPEAKER_00]: seen and hearing and knowing someone that confides in us.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if someone has had an experience like that where they feel like maybe they have tried to share with a friend or a spouse and they haven't been met in a way that that helped them, then I could see them saying, well, forget it.
12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to just go talk to AI, which is a sad commentary on just where we are because we're more lonely than we've ever been.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, we are.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: made in the image, a guide made for connection.
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We need connection.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We're clearly craving it, but we're not finding it in each other.
12:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's, again, we're just self-focused.
12:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I was thinking about what is love?
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: What is first Corinthians, Thirteen Say?
12:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Love is patient kind.
12:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't boast.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not arrogant.
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not irritable or resentful.
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's basically revolving our lives around another person in the image of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: They revolve themselves around each other, elevating each other.
12:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how we were made.
12:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we were made to
13:01
[SPEAKER_00]: give to serve, to build up, encourage other people.
13:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not selfish.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I see from AI is it's a one way self-seeking love.
13:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really a self-love.
13:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, I don't have to worry about anybody else.
13:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I can just be have my feelings validated.
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about me.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're taking out the thought process of the fact that many people aren't us need us, right?
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they need us in their lives too.
13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about us being fulfilled in companionship friendship, marriage, whatever.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, how are we speaking into other people's lives?
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's gone.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That's taken out of the equation.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you say to someone?
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say whether it's an adult or a young adult or some one of our peers that's like, listen, I really, I would love connection.
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I really wish I had dear friends, but I've been burned over and over again.
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just, gun shy about getting involved with deep friendships because it never goes my way.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm sure you hear that a lot in your practice.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you speak into that?
14:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I do hear that a lot.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Sadly, I don't know that if friends hear that that often because they don't know that someone would actually, if they felt safe enough to say that to a friend, then they probably, that friend probably can help them.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But in therapy, a lot of times, I have people that are just lonely and feel like maybe they even have friends, acquaintances, groups, and yet they don't feel that they can be
14:28
[SPEAKER_00]: honest or vulnerable.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say it takes dipping our toe in the water sometimes, that's because we don't try, we are just so afraid.
14:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, dipping the toe in the water is kind of like sharing something, maybe that's not too vulnerable, but just seeing like what what is that person's
14:47
[SPEAKER_00]: response okay can I go a little bit deeper because I normally find that if we're willing to go first so often someone else is like me too and you realize I'm not alone it may not be the exact same experience but but we're humans and we are living a broken world and so we all know what it's like to experience brokenness but it's just it's just that going first that so often we're afraid to do and maybe because we have been burned and so we're afraid to try again
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's hard with our kids because you know our if our if our I see it I've had I boys and a girl but with daughters especially like they feel like they've been vulnerable.
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They shared something and it's been exploited our
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: or, you know, become gossip or rumor and trying to say, like, get back out there, but at the same time as a mom, you're like, don't do it, don't do it, don't get back out there, right?
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I guess what was your thoughts beyond just talking to our daughters about those reciprocal relationships?
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, somewhere to what you just said, but any thoughts advice on that and encouraging them even in the midst of pain, like when you're hurt, then that's probably someone else acting out of pain.
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do we speak into that well with our kids?
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean it is if we can try to put ourselves as someone else's shoes because often someone else like we can have empathy and compassion on them because if they're responding in a certain way it probably is more about them that it is you but it's so hard for us to get out of ourselves to see that when we're also feeling hurt.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think too, and this is, I mean, this is a whole other topic, but we tend to have these friendship clicks groups that we think we can't break outside of.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see this a lot with girls.
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They think that, you know, they may be in high school of college and they think everybody else already has their group.
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not maybe feeling like I have two friends with mine, but I can't possibly go anywhere else.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: because everybody already has friends.
16:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But I find that that's actually not true.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: They have groups, but they're not necessarily deep groups, because I see that.
16:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're at the all the time, too, that you're kind of lumped in with people.
16:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying this always.
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, some of these groups are very genuine close friendships.
16:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But not always.
16:55
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times, it's built around just something that they haven't common at the moment.
16:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So often, it's connected over shared videos and Instagram, posing.
17:07
[SPEAKER_00]: influencers and they have fun posting pictures together.
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's if there's not depth.
17:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I try to help with our girls, especially to to step back and have a bird's eye view to really evaluate, okay, is it really true that all these other people have these
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: these close friendships and you're the only person on the outside just challenging them a little bit to see that there are other people sometimes we just have to look out of just are what's right in front of us to think about who else do you know who else might you dip your toe in the water and and and forever that you know you didn't know or well but gosh she would also really love a friend yeah it's a lot of courage it does and you know I would say that's one of the hardest things are not hardest but one of the
17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: hardest learned lessons for me is I think that I just assumed that my friends, kids would be my kids friends always.
17:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we kind of start raising our kids together and I form these deep friendships and some of them they stay.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But at some places, you know, like, my kids just weren't as close as friends and I was trying to force it into this box.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Why aren't you hanging out with them anymore?
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Why aren't you doing that?
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know one of the kids are going to the video games and social media.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm over here pushing
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: you know friendships that that maybe aren't natural aren't good friendships.
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember I've said this before on the podcast but one time I asked Brett in high school my kiddo that's about to go to college.
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I said why do you never hang out with someone so and so and so and so and so and so and he goes mom I'm just gonna be blunt if you knew some of the choices being made in that friend group right now you wouldn't keep pushing me to go hang out in that friend group and like I was like oh
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that you're you're saying that like you know the thing outside of the box who else is out there encouraging our kids to dip a toe because I think as we're looking at this whole AI thing and and whether or not our kids are going to have this sense of companionship or compatibility which seems so weird.
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: in a manufactured form.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got to be people, moms, that are willing to say we're not going to fabricate friendship.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's figure out what it looks like.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's speak into it.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's keep going back, even though it's hard because it matters and it's worthy of doing.
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we talked a little bit about knowing that this exists, that this might become a problem.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: What does that say about our need for companionship?
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What does it also say?
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's reverse a little bit.
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: about other people's needs.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how does that help us support people better be a better friend?
19:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can kind of reverse the conversation we just had, but does that speak into the fact that we need to listen better, that we need to show up with less judgment, like help us through that?
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: A hundred percent.
19:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
19:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, it goes back to what I said a minute ago, is I feel like we're so self-focused that we miss seeing the other people
19:50
[SPEAKER_00]: had just want to feel known and heard.
19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And so often, I mean, I notice when I go to maybe a girl's gathering, it's like, people, I kind of feel like gosh, well, you would know that I was doing X, Y and Z and no one even asked me about that because we're all just kind of in our own lives.
20:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it can be helpful if we think ahead of time, even be proactive about, okay, what can I ask this person when I'm with her?
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What can I, how can I seek to get to know her better?
20:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Like thinking,
20:19
[SPEAKER_00]: beyond ourselves, getting out of ourselves so that we can build them up.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And typically that leads to a
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: more depth and conversation when we are intentional about asking them questions about things that you might know are going on in their lives or listening for you know other windows in because all the time I mean this is what counselors do right is someone says something and then you're like oh tell me more or just being curious about it and so often we just stop short we don't take it we don't allow ourselves to go to a deeper level and so then we leave these
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: dinners with friends and we feel like it was empty that I didn't really feel closely connected to anyone.
20:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, one of my friends is really good.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: She always says when I'm talking to something she has this one line and I make fun of her for it.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually very helpful.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: She always says that must be hard.
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's it.
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like just sits there and she's very comfortable with silence, which I appreciate as a girl who's not comfortable with silence, but she's very comfortable and then it kind of gives me an opportunity to speak and you know, well, yeah, it really is hard and here's why X, but she's never trying to solve it.
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just kind of letting me
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: you know kind of spitball and and I think that's really a gift to be able to do that because as a girl who likes to solve things I just want to jump out and be like well okay here's three things I would do and then if you talk to counselor and then you know God's word says and I'm sure people like okay lady enough okay and so often people don't they feel misunderstood because you know they're like well you didn't really get what I was saying
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So like your friend, that's so great.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: That's hard because then people do start to elaborate and then you get more information where then like, okay, well now I can't understand that a little bit better.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the one of the things that it talked about when I was asking AI what I should be concerned about with AI, it said I should be concerned about people using it for therapy.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that was interesting and I said this last time we taped, I'll say it again.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like going to the Diet Coke people and asking them
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: to give me a study showing that Diet Coke is safe, like obviously a little vested interest in there.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm going to ask a therapist why we should use the therapist not AI, but that being said, I think there's real truth to this.
22:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so just talk to us a little bit about this that feeling understood and heard and counseled by a computer, that's not healthy.
22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get why people do, I mean, the AI is available twenty-four seven.
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's free.
22:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So right there, that makes sense to me.
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are some real big concerns that I have.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: One is that a computer cannot have, they don't have contextualization.
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So they don't really know the whole story.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they can offer their advice or whatever that can be way off.
23:02
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it can be unsafe.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obscene reports of someone that has maybe had suicidal ideation.
23:11
[SPEAKER_00]: AI does not know properly how to diagnose that that it's a crisis.
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there have been reports of people that have done extreme things because of the council of AI.
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw just, I think yesterday, a woman that has, that is schizophrenic has been on the proper medication for years and has lived perfectly fine.
23:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Went to AI, AI convinced her that no, you're actually not schizophrenic.
23:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get off your medication.
23:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she did.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And now her family is experiencing all sorts of threats and things again.
23:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, those are some extreme things, but a computer can't actually have empathy.
23:51
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't, I mean, part of
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: the benefit of a real live embodied person is that when I'm sitting across from someone like, I am hearing them, I'm seeing them, I'm observing them.
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: There's things that I might notice just their body language so I can pick up and that gives me more insight or questions to ask, way things to follow.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: AI potential for lots of misinformation and again harmful content.
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw that on TikTok, which is also an area where people are getting counsel
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: is this hashtag skinny talk, which is pro-eating disorder or counsel.
24:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, whether it's AI or just social media in general for therapy, there's just a lot of areas for misinformation and harm.
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can get whatever you're looking for from whatever perspective you want it from.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's trained.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You train it as you're talking to it.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It knows it learns what you want to hear, what's successful.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, and I'd add to that with especially big advocate of Christian counseling that you want someone that has the Holy Spirit.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You want someone that knows the creator who created you and can speak truth and wisdom through that person.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think there's such value and that's so important.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no computer can do that.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, you man, yes.
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you've written a lot of books, but there's one of the particular I wanted to ask about parenting ahead.
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like that whole idea of just like getting in front of it, tell us a little bit, the just of that book, and then I have a question about AI related to it.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So parenting ahead, the title is really the idea of what you can do now in the younger years to help the teen years ahead.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have three
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: kids in their twenties now and so just kind of casting this vision to help parents see that okay so if you're going to give into your child and never say no to a two year old that may be real benign but if that continues on if that's what they learn learn behavior that's a real hard when they're a teenager so it's kind of casting this forward vision to help parents see just the importance of foundation and our own
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: just parenting behaviors because so often I talk about our idols like what's really in our hearts I always say parenting starts with the heart of the parent so what's really in our hearts often reflects in the type of parenting we do whether telecopter parenting or permissive parenting
26:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we can address our own idol, start with our hearts before we're trying to correct behavior and our children, we can see that, okay, I'm trying to control, or I want my, I want to be my child's best friend, and whatever's going on with us is usually what's driving the way that we are parenting.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Another one of my very wise friends said that she is very much into, she wants her kids to be friends with everybody.
26:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, you know, and looking around and inviting the kid needs to be, as she said, though, the hardest friendship she's found for her kids are the ones whose parents, moms in particular.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: will go to any links to make sure their child has everything.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't mean from the best person, the nicest clothes.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, has the right friendships, looks the right way, gets invited to the right thing, that everything is a smooth road.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, the parents that won't let their kids hit the bumps in the road, it's hard.
27:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a hard one for your kids to be friend with.
27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Friends with, because if your kid gets it wrong, that parent will shut that friendship down.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's just no grace because they are so controlling of every element of that child's life.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was another thing I was kind of thinking about.
27:32
[SPEAKER_01]: As we're looking at AI, it's our tendency, perhaps, my tendency, with all these things that are new as you want to control it.
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we've all been the ones who were like, well, we won't give our kid a cell phone as long as they're in the house.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we're like, oh, yeah, it's not going to work.
27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: as some point they're going to need a cell phone, right?
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're like, well, they're not dating until they're twenty or we know, well, they're going to date whether or not they call it dating, they're dating if they're hanging out.
27:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're not going to have social media.
27:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's fine.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But somebody around them has it.
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're seeing it.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: AI.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the thought is we're going to want to control it.
28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what would you say to me as a mom if I came in?
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure there's a lot more you'd need to know.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I came in and just said, I'm struggling with wanting to control things I'm scared of.
28:10
[SPEAKER_01]: that are coming up, you know, coming up the park with my kids, like, what would your response be to that?
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get it, there's so much to be afraid of.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's impossible to completely stay on top of it.
28:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I challenge parents to enter into it because we can't speak to it if we're, you know, bearing our head in the sand.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And so really, I mean, kind of had a more of a principal mindset.
28:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we're speaking to our children about
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: social media we can't protect them from every danger but we are trying to help them understand what's out there and in being a safe person so that they will come and fight in us so that we're really helping them to have the tools being equipped to engage with the world because there's no you know bubble wrapping and as in discipline you know we have to engage with the world and they will as they get older and so I would rather when my kids are under my roof help
29:05
[SPEAKER_00]: shepherd them through these different things, instead of just shutting it all down, age appropriately, of course.
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand that, you know, there's good reason why we shouldn't give cell phones a social media at a too young of age.
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But if we're walking alongside them and little by little, we're helping them navigate these things, then they feel more equipment.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: They are more equipped.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So when they're in adult, they have their own conscience, they have their own tools, internal tools, where they know how to navigate these things.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if we just wanted to have an AI conversation with our kids, it's always easier to use for me a new story or something kind of interesting instead of being like, let's sit down and talk about chat, GPT and my kids are going to be like, why are we cheating?
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you bringing this up?
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That story that's kind of all over the place right now about the guy who proposed to his body, whatever.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, that's perfect dinner time conversation.
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's dinner, we're driving to perfect, we're driving to practice conversation.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, well, this got weird.
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you what I heard.
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you do in your training?
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what would the conversation be that you'd have with your kids about it?
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you, if you were going to say like this guy proposed to a bot, like, what would you want your kids to take away from a kind of weird story?
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What would, what would your conversations be?
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even the questions you would ask just to kind of spark conversation?
30:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love using current events and things that are happening to have dinner table conversation or in the car conversation.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, we're talking to our twenty-one-year-old son about this, too, because, you know, this is on my mind, and so I love to hear him weigh in on these things, too.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think discussing what makes relationships fulfilling, what is a true friend?
30:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just as we've been talking about on this podcast, like hearing from them, like, what is a real relationship?
30:52
[SPEAKER_00]: What makes a real friendship?
30:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get a window into how they are thinking, and then we might challenge that, or we might offer our two cents, but talking about the Bible.
31:03
[SPEAKER_00]: What does the Bible say about being an image bear?
31:06
[SPEAKER_00]: What does the Bible say about we're made for community, talking about the pros and cons of AI in general, or about relationship?
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think as much as we can have some open-ended questions to get into what they're
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: thinking instead of just telling them because they can tend to shut us down or tune us out if it just feels like all of a sudden a lecture.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we want this to be a conversation where they're engaging and they're having a use critical thinking themselves to think about like, okay, what is how does the
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Bible, how does our theology align with this?
31:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And those are tools that go in with AI and everything else if they can learn to think critically about what do I what do I believe and how should that then impact how I think about these things happening in the world.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And last question I have the whole back to this emotional affair and I was thinking about this because I was thinking as I have kids that are dating and getting older and one of my friends reached out and her son just started dating someone she goes I have no idea what's talked to him about dating.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean we all we all know to talk about the boundaries and that's not what she's talking about.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: What practically are you telling your son about dating your high school son?
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you telling your kids about preparing for marriage?
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I don't know, that's all great questions.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What am I saying about this?
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're watching my marriage and so I try to do that well.
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That outside of the boundaries, I mean, are we really having these conversations?
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was thinking about this with the emotional affair component.
32:35
[SPEAKER_01]: If we were going to be talking to our kids and that came up like if we were willing to say like,
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, that is an emotional affair.
32:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like talk just a little bit about that about helping our kids think forward into loyalty, faithfulness and a relationship and a marriage relationship.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: What can we take from that?
32:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is so good.
32:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just to helping them to see, like when you are in a marriage, like that, like you have committed yourself to that person, that that is who you are supposed to, you know, be intimate with in all realms.
33:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, dating is not that, but you're moving, I mean, still like to be loyal to, to be trustworthy.
33:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, those are things that the character of the person that you're dating is what you're starting to pay attention to.
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, being above reproach to being, you know, authentic to being vulnerable to so that the person you're dating, you hope that you who you're with, like who you see is who they are.
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah.
33:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we can't control another person, but we can control that for ourselves.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so just considering, I mean, the same could be said with pornography.
33:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like this, like you are, and I see pornography very similarly that it's in the synthetic, what made up relationship that we get emotionally attached to.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: whole other thing, what's happening in our brain when that happens.
34:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think having those same conversations that when you, you know, it is sin when we are going to outside to these other sources, looking, it's all self-focused.
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So really helping them, again, my husband does a lot of easy pastor.
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So he does a lot of pre-marrow counseling.
34:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He always titles it, marriage is death.
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Meaning it's dying to self.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so helping our kids just have that mentality in general,
34:26
[SPEAKER_00]: in relationships that it is about giving and serving elevating, circling my life around them.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And the hope is that that dance is going to be happening both ways.
34:38
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good word.
34:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think this topic is weird, but I think it's important and take it from the girl who didn't think email was gonna make it that this is gonna, this one up being our most listened to podcast of the year because people like, thank you for someone speaking into it.
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of said that.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's not, and I've Googled and looked around maybe that's why I'm getting so much about bots, but there's not a lot of people talking about it as like, I would think they would be.
35:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's right.
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see any other podcast yet.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it's coming, but I mean, it's showing up too on my Google every single story is this right now.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know we're about to hear a lot more about it.
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think always when we can get out on the front of something, that's important because our kids are going to hear about it and engage with it.
35:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we've already introduced it, then we're already a step ahead.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you and I can revisit this in six months or a year and be like, okay, what we actually didn't know when we started talking was this, this and this and then we'll revamp it a little.
35:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully not have to tape it twice, but there you go.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris, and you're amazing.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a sweet friend.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so grateful for you.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And you, like I said, you're an Elpa's LPC and Dow, as well, in Texas and Oklahoma both.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And how does everybody find you if they want to find your books or other things?
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so for Texans or Oklahoma, I am practicing at Magnolia Counseling Group in Dallas, Texas.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find me on their website, but my books are all put out by Newgrids Press.
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They're also on Amazon.
36:06
[SPEAKER_00]: There's three for teenagers, one for parents.
36:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And my website is christenhant.com.
36:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm most active on Instagram at Audintive Parenting.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Redemptive parenting.
36:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I will link all of that in podcasts notes and Kristen.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for reaching out.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That was I just felt like that was a Holy Spirit saying reach out to Cynthia.
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for doing that.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for taping twice and I can't wait for people here this I know it's going to be a great resource.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you guys, well, I bet you learned something.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet at a minimum, got you thinking today about AI and listen, these are some dinner time conversations to have with your kids.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I would just say, like, let's this summer, let's have a moment, maybe a dinner tonight or when you're driving, I have great conversations with my kids when I'm driving.
36:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And just say, like, hey, what do you think about AI?
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you using AI?
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen any places where it's gotten kind of weird there or things your friends are doing the AI that you're questioning?
37:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, just start thinking questions, ask them about it, get their opinion.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: No need to give a lecture, no need to give them your opinion, unless it's asked for, but at least start having a dialogue and a conversation.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's just a summer tip, summer tip from Cynthia, there you go.
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to thank you for being a part of podcast.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you please take a minute and share it with some friends and also leave a review, help other people find us.