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Mindfulness - Cultivating Presence in Everyday Life · Tracking Wisdom

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  Foreign.
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  You're listening to the Tracking Wisdom Podcast, exploring the universal truths that we see woven through culture, consciousness, and the human experience.
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  Good morning, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Tracking Wisdom Podcast.
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  I'm Ryan.
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  I'm Peter.
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  And today we are talking about mindfulness, the art of mindful living and cultivating presence in everyday life.
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  And we are joined today by our certified mindfulness instructor, Peter.
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  So today I wanted to talk about mindfulness in general and query Peter about his experience with mindfulness and mindfulness practice.
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  So, Peter, just to get started, in your own words, for those who may not know, how would you describe mindfulness or what is mindfulness?
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  Mindfulness is focused attention on the current experience in the present moment.
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  How did you get into mindfulness?
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  Well, it goes back Star Wars.
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  Star Wars.
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  Interesting.
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  Yeah.
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  I saw an article.
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  This is back when I was in my 20s.
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  I think I was still a disaffected youth.
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  Maybe I was not happy.
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  I was not happy.
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  And I saw an ARC article on the Jedi, and it is describing the Jedi as based in Zen in some way.
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  And, you know, how they were calm and purposeful and directed and like Zen, you know, like concepts of Zen Buddhism.
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  I was like, oh, what's that?
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  So that's literally my gateway.
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  I was like, oh, let me look into Zen.
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  That sounds interesting.
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  And so I started reading about Zen meditation, not so much about Zen Buddhism.
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  I remember Three Pillars of Zen by Philip Keplo was like, there were not that many books.
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  That was.
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  That was a big one.
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  Is mindfulness part of Zen?
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  Mindfulness is very central to Zen Buddhism.
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  So is mindfulness meditation like the definition of Buddhist meditation, or is it just one type of meditation?
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  It's just one type.
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  Okay, interesting.
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  What do you think is the most common misconception?
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  Empty your mind.
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  Okay, explain that.
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  That's easy.
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  Because what one might call emptying of the mind is a byproduct of meditation.
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  It's not the goal of meditation.
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  One can make it one's goal.
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  You can choose to meditate for whatever purpose you choose.
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  But, I mean, it's not.
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  It is not the purpose of meditation.
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  It's most certainly not how to do it.
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  It's a byproduct.
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  Mindfulness meditation really starts with observation.
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  And so to start with manipulate your mind by emptying it is contrary to my lineage, which is Jack Kornfield and Tara Brock.
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  Jack is from the Thai forest lineage.
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  What's the difference?
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  It's just a particular culture or region of Buddhist culture.
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  I kind of don't want to get into a technical discussion of different kinds of Buddhism, because I think mindfulness meditation is more interesting.
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  It's just he's a clinical psychologist who was a monk in the Thai forest under his teacher Ajahn Chah.
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  I see.
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  So, okay, old school traditional.
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  Tara doesn't have quite the same background.
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  She's also a clinical psychologist, but came from a yoga background before she got into mindfulness.
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  And they are two really major Western meditation teachers.
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  How would you recommend discussing or teaching around the emptying of the mind?
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  Right.
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  So I think it's a very common form of suffering, which is why people think it's the goal of meditation, why it's a desirable end product.
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  Right.
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  I think, especially in the west, we're aware of how much we think and how much our thoughts cause suffering and how much we have intrusive thoughts.
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  So I guess the misconception is that you can boss that around and just empty your mind, you know, stop your intrusive thoughts.
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  If it was that easy, people would have thought.
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  Exactly.
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  It's a very strange instruction.
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  I think it happens because it's in the cultural vernacular and not because it's a meaningful instruction.
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  I think that when a teacher says that they mean a thing, but they don't mean literally.
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  Now empty your mind.
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  They mean, I think, stop attaching so much importance to your thoughts.
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  Right.
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  Which may have the feeling of empty your mind, but it's not emptying your mind.
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  So I mean, the essence of meditation is kind attention to the present experience in the present moment.
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  I guess there's an idea of quiet, because I was going to say quiet yourself.
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  It's a tradition to sit still when you learn mindfulness meditation.
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  But even that sitting still is not essential to mindfulness meditation because there's a variety of forms of movement meditation.
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  One of the most traditional is walking meditation.
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  You're just not still, but you're still paying attention to your experience.
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  Okay, so let's go back to the more common sitting still.
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  Right.
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  So you sit and you stop moving around.
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  It's basically to help you focus your attention so that there are fewer distractions.
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  So you stop moving around.
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  You try to sit still and pay attention to what your experience is.
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  I guess I should start with just the concept of the anchor, which is it's a tool which you make something the object of your meditation.
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  The most common one is the breath as an anchor.
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  And the traditional instruction going back to the time of Buddha is following the breath at the tip of the nose.
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  And you can see pieces of traditional Buddhist art which actually show streams of air coming from his nose.
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  But again, you know, that's just a single instruction.
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  That piece of art is just a single piece of art representing a single snapshot of a meditation experience.
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  It's not essential having something to which to direct your attention.
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  Having that anchor for the mind is what's essential.
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  So it could be the breath, it could be your finger, your palm, the sound of your own breathing.
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  It could be the sound, whatever ambient sound is around you.
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  It could be a candle flame.
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  Basically, any of your senses, including your mental experience, can be anchors.
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  You just direct your.
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  Your attention to that anchor and keep it there as long as you can and see what happens.
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  And that's really the key is see what happens.
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  And what happens is not that your mind becomes quiet.
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  What happens is that your mind starts to wander.
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  It might wander instantly within the space of a breath, or it might wander after a little bit.
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  You know, if you.
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  If your inherent quality of stillness or concentration is a little bit higher than average, you might maintain your attention on whatever anchor you choose for a little bit longer.
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  But inevitably, the universal experience is that your mind wanders.
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  And then the next thing that happens is eventually you notice your mind wandering, because very often you do not notice that your mind's wandering.
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  You say, I'm going to sit down and meditate.
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  You start with your anchor, and then your mind wanders, and you have a thought, and you start following that thought into a train of thoughts.
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  And you're planning dinner, and you're planning dinner, and you remember something else that you ate, and then you remember the person you ate it with, and you remember how you got there, and you remember the cab ride wasn't
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  very nice, and you're just off in this total fantasy which has nothing to do with the present moment.
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  And then you go, oh, my God, I'm supposed to be meditating.
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  And that's the essence of meditation, mindfulness meditation.
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  Right there is that, oh, my God, I'm supposed to be meditating, where you recognize that your mind has wandered, and then you bring it back to the anchor.
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  But the moment of recognition, the moment of recognizing what the mind is doing and how the mind is working or behaving or performing.
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  That's the mindfulness.
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  And so the purpose of sitting still and having the anchor is to kind of set up control conditions, like a little experiment, so that you can more easily observe that moment of, oh, oh, my gosh, I thought I
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  was in control of my mind, and I didn't even realize it was wandering all over the place.
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  So mindfulness meditation.
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  Yeah, Kind of setting up a little controlled experiment.
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  So you're eliminating these distracting variables so you can more clearly see the thing that you're trying to study, which is your mind.
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  And as you progress in practice, just as inevitably as we first sit down, inevitably your mind wanders.
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  And eventually you say, oh, I've been, I've recognized the money.
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  Now just to say you could spend, you could set a 30 minute timer and not remember until your timer goes off that you were supposed to be managing.
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  It's a very common experience.
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  You could set a five minute timer and have the same experience.
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  And equally as well, you have your mind wander and after a few seconds say, oh gee, you just happen to recognize, oh, my mind was wandering.
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  So all of those variables, all those different experiences are legitimate and common.
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  But when you have that, oh my gosh, I'm supposed to be meditating, that's kind of the first experience of mindfulness.
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  It's the first taste and everything builds from there.
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  So as I was saying, there's an inevitability to practice that if you practice longer, eventually the time it takes you to recognize that your mind wandered gets shorter.
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  And so when you begin, your concentration is very good and you're able to maintain your attention for a while before your mind wanders off.
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  Maybe you, you know, pretty soon after it monitors off, you recognize it and you bring it back, it'll still get shorter, like it'll still get better.
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  It's just practice.
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  Which is why people joke.
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  It's why you call it, it's called meditation practice.
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  It's really not.
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  But of the consequence of engaging in a practice is that things change.
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  Right.
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  And so how long and what the actual curve is and what your actual path of experience is completely depends on individuality of the person, like their background, their conditioning, their physicality.
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  I mean, everything that makes you, you as an individual is going to feed into this, but eventually it gets shorter and tighter.
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  And as you notice how the length of attention or the quickness of recognizing that your attention wandered as things change, I think you'll perceive that as the mind quieting.
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  Interesting.
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  Yeah.
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  Is there a difference between attention and observation?
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  And I guess what I'm pointing to is we say an anchor for attention, but we're also trying to observe the present moment.
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  Are those two different things?
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  So the reason that I use the word observation is because it's kind of a passive aspect of attention, which, by which I mean you're not manipulating.
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  Right.
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  If you're an observer, you're not manipulating the thing you're observing.
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  You're just leaving alone.
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  And that's what's meant by kind attention is.
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  Another immediate tendency is to judge what just happened.
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  My mind wandered.
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  I'm no good at this.
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  I can't meditate or, you know, darn, those kids are making noise.
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  They're preventing me from.
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  You know, it might not be internally directed.
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  It might be directed extra.
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  You kids be quiet.
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  I'm trying to meditate.
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  You know, there's a resistance to the thing that happens, which is your mind wandered.
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  And so the intention that's needed as you start is kindness and compassion, uneasiness with whatever happens, an acceptance of, I'm going to have the intention to keep my attention focused on this anchor.
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  And I have the intention to be gentle and kind of with whatever happens and to be accepting of it.
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  It may be that you don't meet either of those intentions.
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  You may not maintain your focus, and you may not be kind about what happens after, but that's the intention.
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  And then you observe how your experience matches your intention.
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  And then you go back and you do it again, and you just rinse and repeat.
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  And I should say that this rinse and repeat can be within the space of seconds.
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  It's not, you know, the next time you sit down, it's like, you sat for 30 seconds, your mind wandered, you noticed it.
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  You beat yourself up momentarily, and you're like, oh, okay, I'm not doing a very good job of being kind to myself.
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  All right, be better at being kind.
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  I mean, it's just all this process happens, and you just keep on watching.
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  It's like, so how mean are you being to yourself?
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  What's going on there?
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  And eventually, hopefully, you know, if you don't get caught in the habitual pattern of just beating yourself up or just being annoyed at the obstacles, the distractions, but you actually start to focus on the intention of kindness and
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  acceptance.
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  Everything starts to soften and loosen up, and the periods of tension lengthen and the experience of kindness increases.
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  It becomes easier.
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  I think that was the first thing that I learned over a long time of meditating at the beginning was to stop criticizing myself, to stop criticizing my practice, so that while I was on the cushion, I was not
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  criticizing.
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  And that was a huge improvement for me.
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  And I don't know exactly.
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  I think it took quite a long time for that to happen.
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  By the time I noticed it, it was already very familiar, and I didn't really remember criticizing myself.
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  But I know that for years I was struggling to be A better meditator.
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  And it's not all criticism, too.
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  It's like, I'm doing a great job.
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  That's another thought.
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  That's another reaction we can have to our experience of meditating.
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  And that's just the same as beating yourself up.
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  Yeah, it can be.
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  I mean, it's another passing judgment.
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  It's potential.
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  It's a judgment.
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  Exactly.
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  Thank you, Ryan.
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  Is there a difference between mindfulness and mindfulness meditation?
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  Is there a conceptual element of mindfulness?
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  I don't know that there's an explicit difference.
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  I think there's an easy conceptual distinction to be made, which is that when you have a chosen anchor, then you're meditating.
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  And so you may be active or you may be still, but you have a chosen anchor of attention, and you're observing what is happening to your attention, to your mind.
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  And that, I would say, is mindfulness meditation.
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  Mindfulness, I think, is a quality that.
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  That grows out of the practice where you just start to notice things.
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  And an experience that I can report.
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  Well, in fact, I think people have heard me.
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  I forgot we're on a podcast here.
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  Getting into my own conversational space here.
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  But certainly, you know, you've heard me report out my experience.
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  And it's not because I'm sitting here in the podcast meditating.
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  It's because become mindful.
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  Or I'm having.
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  I'm reporting an instance of mindfulness.
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  So I would say mindfulness is a kind of skill that develops out of the practice of mindfulness meditation.
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  Mindfulness meditation is the specific practice which I think would be fair to say is intended to generate mindfulness.
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  And then, because the consequence of having mindfulness is you suffer less, you find you notice that your mind is doing unhelpful things, and then kind of stop attaching to those unhelpful patterns in a way that is increasing your
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  suffering and that therefore decreases your suffering.
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  What would you say to somebody that says, I can't meditate?
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  How do you respond to that?
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  Kind of.
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  Yes.
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  So I would say that's the second misconception.
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  You know, big secret that I say, which is, you can't fail at meditation.
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  You can only have different experiences.
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  You can have experiences that you don't like, but that's not failing.
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  As long as you notice that you had that experience, then you're.
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  You're doing it, which is why it can be helpful to have a teacher.
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  So I meditated for, like, 40 years without having a teacher.
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  Yeah.
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  So even so, at one point, I was at a zendo in New York.
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  When I was first starting, I was living in New York City.
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  There was a zendo there, a Zen temple which had a free meditation session every week, and I went to that.
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  And there was a teacher there.
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  There was an abbot there at the zendo, but he wasn't my teacher, so I never had the opportunity to discuss my practice with him.
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  So that doesn't count.
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  Although, you know, in a way, he's definitely part of my lineage because he affected my experience of meditation.
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  Jack and Tara I listened to on cassette tapes for years, and then, you know, and then on podcast, and.
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  And so I've been in contact with their teachings for many years, but they weren't my teachers because there was no.
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  In the sense that there was no interaction.
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  Right.
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  So it's helpful to have a guide or a coach, a teacher, in that sense, an interactive experience, someone with whom you can discuss your experience really can accelerate your understanding of what's going on.
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  I don't want to say get a teacher, because that's not necessarily the solution, but you.
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  You need to have that instruction, that additional instruction of you can't fail at meditation.
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  You can only have experience that you don't like, and that in itself is part of the meditation.
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  I mean, mindfulness meditation is studying your experience.
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  And because you're studying your experience, you can't fail.
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  You can only choose not to do it.
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  How long or how often is best for creating a practice?
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  Oh, Ryan.
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  Yeah, so there's.
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  There's no right answer.
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  Okay.
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  I would recommend trying to do it daily.
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  Like setting the intention to do it daily, but then again, doing that in itself becomes part of the meditation experience.
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  It's like, oh, you.
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  You set the intention to do it seven days this week.
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  How many days did you do it?
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  2.
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  How do you feel about that?
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  Right?
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  I mean, it's.
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  Well, okay, so now what are you.
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  What are you doing about the fact that you only did it for two days?
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  You know, is your.
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  Are you allowing your mind to do things with that information or you just saying, okay, next week, same goal, seven days.
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  See what happens any number of days.
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  If you do one one day a week, there's nothing wrong with that.
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  If you want to be ambitious and set, I'm going to sit every single day for the next week?
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  There's nothing wrong with that either.
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  There's nothing wrong with failing at either one.
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  As long as you have kind attention for whatever happens, whether you fail or you don't fail.
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  And also helpful hint, if you succeed in seven out of seven days, there's Nothing wrong with being excited about, oh my God.
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  Yeah, it's great.
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  Like, it's fine to be really happy about it.
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  It's less helpful to be really unhappy about failing.
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  But again, both of those things are just responses, and they're just part of your experience.
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  Everything's just part of your experience.
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  I would offer start with five minutes each time.
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  There's no reason not to do 10 or 20 or 30.
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  If your qualities of discipline and focus are already high because you do something else that requires you to focus for periods of time, why not do it that way?
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  You might be a musician who's accustomed to practicing for long periods.
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  So do this for that, you know, doesn't mean you can succeed any better.
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  If you know you have a really poor attention span, don't give yourself an hour.
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  Yeah, you know, if you know that your body doesn't like to sit still for long periods of time, don't start with half an hour.
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  Start with something that's reasonably comfortable.
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  If you only can do one minute a day for seven days, that success, even if your goal is 30 minutes, but did one minute, you still remembered and made the effort to meditate for a period of time, even
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  if it was only one minute.
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  So I'm super busy and I hate to sit still.
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  What are my options?
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  There's a story.
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  There's a story.
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  Someone asked the teacher, how much should I meditate?
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  Meditate for half an hour?
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  Well, I don't have enough time to meditate, so meditate for an hour.
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  I don't know the point of that.
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  It just came to mind because it's funny, but you're busy and you don't like to sit still.
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  So find an activity and an anchor that you can use while you're being busy in that city still.
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  So a classic one is dishwashing.
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  Just paying attention to each dish that you pick up and to each action that you take as you are washing the dishes.
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  So this is a slightly more complex anchor, but probably suits you if you have a busy mind tendency.
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  Right.
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  You're just paying attention to everything in your experience.
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  I would start with the hands and the eyes, the temperature of the water, the sensation of the suds, the appearance of the food on the dishes, the food coming off the dishes.
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  Just immersing yourself in that experience is mindfulness meditation.
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  So you really can do it with any activity.
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  Trying to think what the limitation is.
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  I think, you know, the reason you wouldn't do that is because the.
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  The reason the traditional instruction isn't that way is because there's more tendency to get distracted when you're doing something like washing the dishes.
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  Like I need to wash the dishes, I need to get to the next thing.
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  Those are things that would come up in your practice of like you're rushing or, you know, whatever, but those are just.
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  That's just more kind of material fodder, if you will, for the process.
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  Do you like to exercise?
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  Do you like to run?
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  I find that I bring my meditation to exercise.
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  Exercise.
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  I'm just very mindful of the motion that I'm doing.
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  That's part of my personality is I'm very technique oriented.
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  And so that helps me though as like, oh, this is the anchor of my meditation.
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  I mean, I'm not intentionally saying this is the anchor of my meditation, but it ends up being that way.
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  Like I know that to optimize and this is my external mental process, kind of external to the meditations.
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  I know when I go to start a workout, I'm doing specific exercises.
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  I want to use good for form to optimize the benefit of my.
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  It's not why I'm thinking about while I'm doing it, but as a consequence of that orientation, when I go to work out, I'm moving a weight.
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  All of my attention is on how am I moving that weight and what is the experience of my body when I'm moving that weight.
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  Is it uncomfortable?
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  Am I over challenging myself?
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  How tired am I?
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  I mean, I'm very much paying attention to the entire experience of performing that exercise.
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  Not want to wear a headset or listen to something intentionally while I'm exercising.
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  Exception is if I'm doing an aerobic exercise, I'm usually listening to something because I have a lot of stuff to listen to.
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  But when I'm doing strength training, I'm essentially meditating.
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  And I would say when I used to run that cerrobic exercise, I would do also without audio.
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  And I'm just focused on that experience of running and paying attention to what's going on.
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  So those can definitely be made into mindfulness meditation practice for the right match.
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  You know, if that matches you, then there's no reason that can't be a very effective mindfulness meditation.
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  I don't think that's most people.
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  And that's why meditation is generally taught sitting.
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  Because again, speaking to the bell curve, as I have in the past, right.
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  For most people, most of the time, that's the most convenient and conducive thing.
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  And then there are all exceptions.
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  So what you said about the exercise and I guess I Had images.
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  I mean, not necessarily flow state, like you're in the peak performance of your craft, but being in the moment, say, sounds like it could be a common experience for many people that exercise.
• 23:33
  And I wonder how many people are meditating and not knowing it.
• 23:37
  I be absolutely certain that it happens.
• 23:40
  Yeah, absolutely certain.
• 23:41
  Without question.
• 23:42
  The distinction to make is, what are you doing with those observations?
• 23:46
  Right?
• 23:47
  Are you like, I have to lift more.
• 23:50
  Okay, I'm lifting this weight and tomorrow I'm gonna lift more.
• 23:52
  Or.
• 23:52
  Or like, you know, oh, this is.
• 23:54
  I should be stronger than I am, you know, Is it that.
• 23:57
  Is it like, oh, is that person watching me?
• 23:59
  Like, why are they looking at me?
• 24:00
  You know?
• 24:01
  Or is it just being directly in the experience?
• 24:04
  Right.
• 24:05
  Without judgment, you know, so you can be observing the performance and saying, oh, I let my elbow go out and I need to bring it in, because that's proper form and that's just redirecting your effort.
• 24:17
  I don't think that would be breaking kind of from mindfulness practice.
• 24:21
  It's just readjusting to your anchor.
• 24:24
  We obviously talk lots about awakening.
• 24:28
  Is there a connection with mindfulness and awakening process?
• 24:34
  Yes, absolutely.
• 24:35
  Absolutely.
• 24:36
  In general, there is connection.
• 24:39
  Not at all.
• 24:39
  Absolutely.
• 24:40
  If you meditate, you're going to awaken.
• 24:42
  Right.
• 24:43
  Which is something we've addressed before.
• 24:45
  Mindfulness meditation is a very good path to awakening for many people.
• 24:50
  And just as equally, it's not a path to awakening for many people.
• 24:55
  And I think a lot of it has to do with, like I said before, every component of what makes you you affects your experience and also affects, like, well, what's awakening for you?
• 25:09
  So, yeah, it might be mindfulness meditation.
• 25:11
  Might not be one of many pointers.
• 25:12
  I'm sure that's something I'd like to explore sometime.
• 25:15
  Let's just put it that way.
• 25:16
  Can't get into it now.
• 25:18
  So what advice would you give or what would you recommend to a beginner who's interested in trying to explore mindfulness?
• 25:26
  Oh, my goodness.
• 25:27
  I'm so happy for you.
• 25:28
  Really.
• 25:29
  Looking back at my experience trying to learn about meditation, it was like, oh, my God, there was nothing.
• 25:34
  There's so much now that's available.
• 25:36
  There's so many really good resources and teachers.
• 25:39
  I can name three apps that are very good for mindfulness meditation.
• 25:45
  Each of them has, like, really good teaching on it.
• 25:48
  It's all free.
• 25:49
  You can pay premiums.
• 25:50
  As for, you know, there's wonderful resources online.
• 25:54
  So the question is, of course, there's so much available.
• 25:56
  How do you choose?
• 25:57
  Right, right.
• 25:58
  And I think you really have to go with your experience.
• 26:01
  Like, when you start to do it, is it helping you?
• 26:03
  Is it making you feel better?
• 26:05
  Like, give it a week or two.
• 26:06
  You know, don't just try it for 10 minutes and say, oh, this sucks.
• 26:09
  Because honestly, the first time you try to sit for 10 minutes, it might not be enjoyable.
• 26:14
  Just like going to the gym, you might not like it at first or playing an instrument.
• 26:18
  So stick with it a little bit, but don't be afraid to go and try something new.
• 26:21
  I mean, we've talked about this a lot.
• 26:23
  Like, always trying to find the practice that's right for you and trust yourself.
• 26:27
  Yeah.
• 26:27
  And as far as those who may be underway on a journey of mindfulness, what's out there available to explore beyond sort of the beginner levels?
• 26:38
  I guess I wouldn't have any specific or different instruction.
• 26:41
  I mean, there's.
• 26:42
  Again, at any level, there's so much resource available out there.
• 26:47
  Just explore and yeah, trust.
• 26:50
  Trust yourself.
• 26:51
  I think the key is don't let anyone make you feel bad.
• 26:54
  Like, don't let a practice make you feel bad and don't let a teacher make you feel bad.
• 26:59
  Of course, every.
• 26:59
  Well, not everyone, but there.
• 27:01
  There are stories of adversarial teachers, and there are traditions of that.
• 27:05
  And there are also well documented instances of really problematic teaching and people who are claiming to be that way.
• 27:12
  So I think the best guideline is like, keep yourself safe physically and emotionally.
• 27:17
  Just don't let it make anything worse.
• 27:20
  That's fair.
• 27:21
  And.
• 27:21
  And I would say, especially with posture.
• 27:23
  We didn't talk about posture traditionally.
• 27:25
  You know, there are a lot of traditional postures, but they're for people who didn't grow up sitting in chairs.
• 27:30
  So I would say, you know, you can experiment, but again, don't make it.
• 27:34
  Don't let it make you feel bad.
• 27:35
  You definitely don't have to sit in a traditional posture or sit at all, just as there are any.
• 27:41
  You can use any anchor.
• 27:42
  You can use any posture.
• 27:43
  Sitting, standing, lying down, whatever works for you.
• 27:46
  Great.
• 27:46
  Well, we're closing in on time here.
• 27:48
  But what drew you to mindfulness as an instructor?
• 27:52
  Serendipity.
• 27:54
  It just happened.
• 27:55
  I knew someone at work who was also a meditator.
• 27:57
  We had talked several times.
• 27:59
  She was enrolled in a program.
• 28:01
  I attended her practicum just to be another warm body and give her feedback.
• 28:05
  And she said, you really should sign up for this course.
• 28:08
  I'm like, I don't want to.
• 28:09
  But I.
• 28:09
  At the time, I really didn't have a reason.
• 28:11
  Not to.
• 28:12
  And I knew that.
• 28:13
  I knew that learning to teach a thing really deepens your connection to the thing.
• 28:18
  So that was a motivation.
• 28:19
  Yeah, I would say that was it.
• 28:21
  And even after graduating, I really didn't have an intention of teaching, which is only growing recently.
• 28:26
  Yeah.
• 28:27
  What do you hope to bring the industry in a unique way through your teaching?
• 28:32
  I don't know.
• 28:32
  I mean, my.
• 28:33
  Well, as you know, my focus is on awakening.
• 28:37
  I mean, I have a deep love of mindfulness and the connection between that and awakening.
• 28:41
  Right.
• 28:41
  Yeah.
• 28:42
  I'd give a plug for all your stuff and how to get in touch with you and all that.
• 28:46
  I don't know.
• 28:46
  Do we have anything to give people?
• 28:48
  I think not yet.
• 28:48
  I am not set up yet to launch my practice.
• 28:51
  Keep an eye out for our Intro to Mindfulness Meditation course.
• 28:55
  Yes, in in progress.
• 28:57
  So thanks again for joining us.
• 28:59
  Hopefully you gained some insight and inspiration to either begin, embark on or continue your mindfulness practice.
• 29:08
  I hope you have lovely day and we'll talk to you next time.
• 29:11
  Thanks everyone.
• 29:11
  Bye bye.
• 29:14
  Thank you for listening to the Tracking Wisdom Podcast.
• 29:17
  Join us next time as we continue the discussion.
• 29:20
  Don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube and visit www.eth-studio.com for more information and content.